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Microsoft Sets Value Of Pirated Windows: $1
nick_davison writes "The BBC is reporting that Microsoft has reached a deal with the Indonesian government on pirated software - which is believed to affect around 50,000 government PCs. Under the deal, Indonesia will pay $1 per copy and agree to buy legally in the future. Indonesia's information minister, Sofyan Djalil, said, "Microsoft is being realistic. They can't force developing countries like us to solely use legal software since we can't afford it. They want us to gradually reduce our use of it." Somehow it seems unlikely the same rules will be applied to developing companies and poorer individuals in the United States."
but they want to keep their customers.
An exchange for Schappelle Corby?
VERITAS VOS LIBERABIT
Let me get this straight... a copy of windows is worth 1$ illegally pirated, but a CD is worth what was that again? $20,000? Someone PLEASE explain that one to me.
That's still more than the average /. user values it at.
Okay, so they are more or less going for people officially being their customers (in a sense), rather that unofficially pirating the same software? It's interesting how piracy does seem to encourage such companies to drastically lower their prices...
see a Text Widget
Not worth it - that's still more than twice what Debian charges.
...include tech support?
That's at least a dollar more than I paid for it
Twice what it's worth, huh?
"At least we know what the true value of Microsoft Windows is."
Yeah, my biases affect my ability to estimate value, too.
"Derp de derp."
"Somehow it seems unlikely the same rules will be applied to developing companies and poorer individuals in the United States."
You scream Linux, OpenOffice and not bluff you'll get big discounts. MS is rich because people simply pay up. Start being an *informed* consumer, markets work better that way.
Deleted
So this explains the MS sponsored TCO researches saying Windows is cheaper.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Cool. I just PayPal'd $1 to billg@microsoft.com. I figure we're square now...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
fools! MS would rather PAY YOU to maintain its monopoly and mindshare than have you turn to linux.
Why is Indonesia submitting to Microsoft like this? Are they afraid Microsoft will no longer do business with them? Well, it seems that that doesn't matter. They'll just pirate any necessary software some way or another. What does Indonesia gain from this?
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
...and about as good for you, too.
Seriously, though -- why do people still pirate MS products when you can have the free (better?) alternative operating system, office suite, e-mail client, yadda yadda?
Is this a statement of "joe sixpack" and his relative ignorance of the alternatives or is this more a shot at OSS -- "we'd rather break laws than use your free (no-good) stuff?" The former seems to be a quest for a Linux marketing department. The latter is one for the usability experts to hammer out with the open source coders.
Either way, there's some truth to be revealed in the answer to why people still pirate Microsoft products.
Can this set any precident for the "value" of MSFT software in general? If someone is caught with pirated software, could this overturn the (potential) $150,000 copyright violation because of this precident?
I assume MSFT knows what it's doing (what with their fleet of lawyers).
The Indonesian information minister's statement is ridiculous: "They can't force developing countries like us to solely use legal software since we can't afford it." WTF? Why not? If you can afford Windows, give it a shot. If you can't, try OSS. It'll work. Maybe better, maybe worse. But you sure as hell can be forced to do things legally.
It's not like they're being forced to pay outrageous prices for their sole source of food or something. They have a choice of software, and they choose an expensive, proprietary, non-free one. The shiny, fancy one. Guess what? It costs money.
I always like to use free stuff.
GPL - Free as in mine
BSD/X11/MIT - Free as in not closed yet
CDDL - Free as in slave labor
Apache - Free as in complicated
Microsoft - Free as in stolen
Did I miss any?
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
They can't force developing countries like us to solely use legal software since we can't afford it.
By "developing countries" he means 3rd world and poorer than dirt.
According to my tax returns, I'm poorer than dirt. Is MS going to force me into using software I can't afford? Why do THEY get a break when I probably make something comparable to their salary?
A little more research on google news shows that MS is denying this report.
Look at just about *any* large software company that sells to businesses. Their goal is to get you locked-in to a software package, and then milk as much money as they possibly can from you. The real money to be made is in hidden costs. Sure, Bob the Purchasing Manager *thinks* that he's bought a copy of the software, but in fact he's signed off on spending money on the software package for the next fifteen years until the company is frusterated enough to ante up enough money to jump ship to another package.
And the best tool of all in the software world to squeeze those-money engorged corporate udders is incompatibility -- file formats, APIs and protocols that only *you* can provide. (And user expertise in your software.)
The smart purchaser stays the hell away from any proprietary file formats, APIs and protocols.
The main reason that the open source world is nice for the corporate world is not the up-front price benefits. It's the fact that open source software inherently has non-proprietary file formats, APIs, and protocols, means that a choice of open source software ensures that you can't be milked (well, *too* much) or else someone else will toddle on in and start providing an alternative.
Consider an example: People using Subversion for their source control aren't going to pay a cent for anything in the future. Even if Subversion cost $5000 a seat, instead of being gratis, it would still mean only a one-time payment. People using ClearCase have many years of rich milk-giving ahead of them.
Microsoft lets people use Windows for minimal cost in areas that it wants to enter because it establishes one of the above pillars of lock-in -- it builds user expertise in their software. Any software with a different interface or behavior immediately represents a barrier to change. That retraining has a cost, that cost can have a dollar value assigned to it, and that dollar value is exactly how much Microsoft can milk you for in the future.
Microsoft's most-used mechanism to help *spread* lock-in is not contracts or dirty legal tactics, but bundling. Get one element of lock-in into play (say, file formats, with Windows binary compatibility), and use it to get Windows deployed, then try to use that to get people to use another element of Windows that can provide its own lock-in benefits. The economic potential, the amount of money that Microsoft can milk users for, increases with every increment of lock-in.
Microsoft didn't give away Internet Explorer for free because they love you and like petting kitties and giving candy to babies. They did it because (a) it builds user expertise in a feature of their software that then is difficult to move away from, increasing lock-in, (b) enough use of Internet Explorer results in network-spanning lock-in as people start dabbling in things like ActiveX, which are a big milk-producing mechanism for Microsoft, and (c) it provides another, significant, platform to use to introduce file format and protocol incompatibility, and thus further milk-producing lock-in. Internet Explorer is an *investment* in producing economic potential, lock-in, which they can cash in for loads of money over time in the future.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
end rant
WHY does M$ needs $50k from Indonesia? Maybe they could donate the windows copies to the Tsunami Relief efforts...
How stupid are slashdot readers?!
$1 is for each pirated copy the government declares so far. After that, the government stops pirating, and starts paying money! Thats right - for having an initial amnesty to get the ball rolling, Microsoft gets another lucrative government IT contract.
So why doesn't Microsoft charge different prices depending on the country? Wouldn't that maximize their profits?
Then we'd all buy our MS products overseas.
...I went to Indonesia and bought a legal version of Windows and brought it back here, would it still be legal? That means if I bought several hundred licenses there I could resell them here for a nice profit :D
Cheers,
RoadkillBunny
A dollar a day keeps the lawyers away!
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
Essentially 50,000 pirated copies of windows are worth $50,000 more than 50,000 real copies of windows.
This makes the punitive side of the damages pretty low, but the scale of this settlement means very little for casual pirates.
The real question is how the government of a country too poor to pay for Windows got 50000 PCs.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Now granted, someone that owns a PC generally seems like they'd be someone that can afford an OS. But thats not the case alot of times. I mean you go into any place that sells software, and you STILL see Windows Xp Home at the $80 mark or more. Often or not it's still $100 in most big chain stores like Best Buy.
I know plenty of people who have small, self built PC's they've built slowly over time. Just like some people put together a decent car by buying the core parts seperately. Or better yet I know people whom have been given an average PC that you normally see in mom & pop type stores, as a gift. These PC's are monsters in terms of hardware or specs, they probably run the basics like Office and IE. Parents buy these all the time for kids, the bare essentials for doing homework and studying (of course kids use them for IM's online and games)
Case in point is M$ will never show love to poor people. If you're still in school (before or during college) you're more than likely going to need a PC. Sure most schools offer campus use of their PC's but often it's under their timetables, under their rules, which not everyone can meet. When an OS costs almost 1/3 of what you paid for a simple PC to use Office or to browse the Internet (with dial up mind you, most often), it's obvious it costs too much.
Some will say "but you can use something older like Windows 2000 or 98". Sure, you can. Check the date lately? Official support for 2k runs out soon, and 98's + 95's has been out for a while. What happens when a critical flaw is found after support has been cut off? Hope that Symantec or some other company might be kind enough to patch the OS itself even though they are virus scanning providers not the OS makers? It's not a HUGE deal now but as more and more flaws + crippling virii come out each year (MS Blast anyone?..) it's a matter of time before that family of 5 living in a small apartment have to pirate XP or Longhorn to simply guarantee their computer is safe so use.
This is why M$ has a damn monopoly. Sure you can choose a cheaper OS, hell some are even free. But then you lose support for A), most major software titles or games that are not ported to your non-Windows OS, and B) you have to spend time learning a new OS that's not support alot. Example, imagine a family buys one of these low end PC's for their kids, and manages to find a real affordable broadband provider. Since they can't afford to shell out $100+ for Windows XP Home they get a copy of some Linux distro. At some point their broadband cuts out so they call tech support. Tech support says "Oh we're sorry we can't help you, you aren't running Windows". Or you take it into a shop to get something fixed, say the disk drive goes out. Alot of mom & pop repair places don't do Linux OS'ed PC's, at least not here locally. You might be fine at some big place like Best Buy but then you're stuck paying outrageous prices for a 5 minute drive switch.
You can see how the list goes on. In the end the poor get shafted, so yes we do pirate. Not because we can, or because we are cheap, because we simply cannot afford it and in alot of cases it's nessicary.
Aw Frell this
What? MS wants them to reduce their use of legal software?
Nonsense.
Thieves in Indonesia remain theives.
It's ludicrous for an Indonesian government minister to justify theft on the grounds that the government can't afford to buy Windows. How did they pay for the hardware the stuff runs on? Or, did they steal that, too?
Smacks of a con to me.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
$1 each? I'M RICH!
* Most corporations are corrupt ...
* All governments are corrupt
* Individuals are powerless when the two get together, unless they get together, too
* Resistance is not futile, but is bloody
* You will be assimilated quicker if you buy Nikes, eat at McD's, use MS products
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
It's not about the money. The vast majority of Indonesians take pirated software for granted, and have no real desire or need to buy original.
;)
Several years ago Microsoft Indonesia sued cmoputer stores who install (pirated) Windows onto newly built systems. They claim damage of several billions rupiah, enough to make any local computer store to go out of business. Last time I was in Jakarta, all those stores sued are still in business. In one news article, the defendant's lawyer asked the judge whether he has a PC at home, and whether his copy of Windows is legal
About two years ago a supposedly tough copyright legislation was passed, but there is simply no real enforcement in Indonesia, people still sell and buy openly. There is no "incentive" to buy originals. Even if there is enforcement, most individuals can't afford originals.
This is another country you are talking about. This is a sovereign conuntry. Your law need not apply here. You want to force them to cooperate? You can use diplomacy, or you can invade.
And her exact words (after a five minute rant about how the guy was an asshole) were, and I quote:
"Damnit this is awful. But it sounds about right. After that damned Suharto ran off with $30 billion dollars, there was no way in hell we could ever afford to pay for anything. But still, better for him to steal it than Microsoft."
What are those export restrictions you speak of? Sheesh! When America talks to the third world, all they talk about is trade liberalization. Get on with the global show. /sarcasm off
"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
And Visual Studio = $300
and
and...
Namaste
You forget that by doing that they won't make a profit. For example you sell MS Office 2002 to Indonesia for lets say $10, out of that $10 at least $5 is used for cd stamping, cardboard box, etc., $3 the development of the software, and $3 for the reseller themselves. Well they just lost $1 by doing that, or they can sell it for $200 and have enough people buy the software to make a slight profit. As a business which would you rather do? lose money or make a profit? Microsoft has gotten used to people pirated their software. With Windows XP they put enough protection to stop the casual users, but they knew people would find a hack (or use Volume Licensed keys) and people who would use the pirated software still would.
To me the article sounds like a good PR move. make an agreement with another government so they seem like less of a bad guy and try to get them to buy more and more legal software. If you notice its $1 per computer not $1 per peice of illegal software per computer.
"since she's hot"
This is only true for extremely small values of "hot".
So should I get caught for pirating a copy of windows (which I'm not), can I cite this as a precedent for a settlement of $1 per copy? Or is it that since this is overseas that it doesn't count somehow, even though Microsoft would have to pay US taxes on the monies earned abroad under current laws? And should Microsoft be able to sue me for pirating their software, could I countersue them for price-gouging if their asking price is the US price while they demand a lesser price abroad? This is a serious question so don't waste your moderator points.
I've been to Indonesia briefly. If I remember correctly, one dollar translates to about 10,000 Rupies, which will buy you a pretty good meal just about anywhere, or an unreliable CD containing mp3s of every Bob Marley song ever recorded, or 10 packs of ramen (ramen costs the same everywhere in the world), or about 5 or 10 angkot rides, or more biskuat than you can eat in one sitting. I stayed a few days in a hotel in Batu Karas for about about $4-$5 a night for a room shared with a couple friends. You can buy antibiotics for about a dollar or so I believe.
I didn't see many computers there, so I don't know if Linux is very well established, but no one cares about piracy over there. The percieved cost of windows is about the same as the percieved cost of Linux: whatever it costs to get a burned copy from a street vendor. "Joe sixpack" is unlikely to own a computer (though TVs are very common), but if he does, he'll probably use whatever everyone else is using, which is probably Windows.
Microsoft Sets Value Of Pi
Well I thought it was funny...
I'm from Indonesia, even here I think only a few people buy legal, indonesian version of windows. Compared to pirated version it's still expensive. Please don't think that company over here is too poor to buy the software, they can buy $2000,- worth hardware. It's just not feasible under Indonesian business practice. It's cheaper to pay the authorities (read: corrupted police officer) than to pay microsoft. Mind you, this is one of the most corrupted goverment in the world, and the standard average salary in the goverment is very low
Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching
I don't know why Americans always talk about "legal" copies of Windows, music, and so on, like it's some universal absolute. Legal depends on the jurisdiction, and there are at least 200 countries that are not the United States.
If Indonesia decides that copying Windows is legal, then it's legal there.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
Assuming your are geniumely asking this question...
.dan.
The answer goes:
US$1 = a tip at a bar, or a cup of Soda in the States.
US$1 = 1 hours wage, or a full dinner in Indonesia.
So while $1=$1 , 1 soda 1 dinner.
What exchange rates mean is that Western tourists will find things "cheap" (they can buy more things with less $ than at home) and the locals will see the Westerners as "rich" (The amount of cash dropped on a two week holiday could probably have paid off their entire mortgage)
Exchange rates DO NOT equalize any of these imbalances. Although some Communist countries tried to manipulate them in that way many years back.
Those so poor they can afford a $500 PC
Oh, my heart bleeds.
Do USAians actually understand what poverty means? A huge number (I don't have the figures to hand) earn less than USD10 per month.
In fact, the Make Poverty History have a poster (which unfortunately does not appear to be online) quoting a statistic that a London (UK) parking meter earns more in an hour than something like 75% of the world's population earns in a month.
Please, the http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/ campaign, put this stuff up on the web, not just on dead trees!
We do realise that the G8 summit is upon us, and that huge international protests against international poverty are due to coincide with it? ... Don't we?
Or is this just some sheltered young white well-to-do middle-class ... oh, just remembered where I am.
Go, Dubya!
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
http://www.indexmundi.com/indonesia/gdp.html
And as Bill Gates's personal wealth is esitmated at $46.5 billion
http://www.marxist.com/scienceandtech/bill_gates_c apitalism.htm
And Ballmer's worth is $12 billion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/microsoft/Story/0,2763,1 046102,00.html
And Paul Allen is worth $20.5 billion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/microsoft/Story/0,2763,1 046102,00.html
you have the top three at Microsoft worth approximate 9% of the entire Indonesian GDP. And Microsoft is pissed, i.e., the greedy plutocrats and lawyers who run Microsoft are pissed, that a nation where the average wage slave makes about $80 - $100 a month
http://countrystudies.us/indonesia/63.htm
has found that it makes economic sense to pirate an OS that costs more than an average month's wages?
Geee - poor babies. Greedy motherfuckers. Almost as evil as the slime moulds who run Indonesia...
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Indonesia's information minister, Sofyan Djalil, said, "Microsoft is being realistic. They can't force developing countries like us to solely use legal software since we can't afford it. They want us to gradually reduce our use of it."
So it's okay to pirate software if you can't afford it? Oh hey, I can't afford the normal license price for Adobe Premier Pro, should I go ahead and pirate it? Bottom line is, if they can't afford MS's products, they should look at the other, legal alternatives; for example, OpenOffice, *nix, etc. Not being able to afford something doesn't mean it entitles you to illegally obtain it otherwise, or similarly.
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Bugs are good for building character in the user.
The guy from Indonesia is full of crap. "developing countries like us ... can't afford [legal software]". They can afford legal software, (Cue OSS) just not Microsoft.
Why is it that I have to compete on a global market labor-rate-wise, yet they don't have to pay global rates for software? You can't have it both ways, guys. If you stab my job with your $4/hr labor rates, then we get to stab you with $200 software.
If you go global, then do it fair.
Table-ized A.I.
One thing they could do would be to just refuse to provide support to customers who buy 'grey-imports'.
I've seen other companies do this. Users buy a product over-seas thinking that they are getting a bargain, then they call the company for support and are told to pay or go away. It won't really affect the technies who can support themselves but it makes it difficult for people who will need some help.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Oh so that is why our north-american politician are over paid,,,to keep them from being corrupt!!!
Oh wait that still doesnt work!