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Testing Cheaper Printer Ink
Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "Computer users world-wide spend $22 billion a year on ink cartridges, and the big companies are getting stingier with the amount of ink they are putting into each cartridge, the Wall Street Journal reports. Entrepreneurs are seeking a slice of that market by undercutting HP and Lexmark with ink prices 20% to 50% lower. The Journal tested do-it-yourself refill kits, cartridge retail outlets and replacement cartridges from online stores to find the best way to save money on ink refills. One major finding: The quality often wasn't as good as with the name-brand cartridges."
Too bad they haven't even mentioned Continuous Ink Flow Systems - CIFS replacement kits exist for most of the ink printers out there and you stop getting raped by the printer manufacturers. Why buy cartridges at all, when you can buy ink by the barrel?
..offering a do-it-yourself mach-3 gillete cartridge replacement. The DIY kit won't ever be as good and the named brands will continue to milk users on their cartridges. :(
I, for one, would have been glad to have read that there were cheaper alternatives but this article doesn't say anything new
The best planning can be done after the project completes.
From TFA: "The kit included three ink colors -- yellow, blue and magenta"
Not to be anal, but isn't it cyan, magenta, yello (CMY)? Blue is part of RGB. There is a difference IIRC.
Ok, first thought on the quality is .. Durrr .. obviously the quality is going to be lower. Any idiot could tell you that.
..
However
Does it actually matter? Certainly I find that any documentation I want a client to see has to be *perfect*, which generally means sending it out to a proper copy shop or in-house repro facility. Internal documentation doesn't need to be anywhere near as high quality, so replacement inks are ok assuming they actually last a few years on the paper, I find thats more important than a few lines here and there.
So really where I work there isn't actually a market for "premium" ink cartridges. They're too expensive for everyday things, and not good enough for top quality things. There isn't any middle ground.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
the re
ahh knew I shouldn't have got that cheap imitation!!
I worked as an office junior for a guy once who refused to by branded cartridges once he found out about them - in this case Epsom. The cartriges were about 2/3 of the price and when they worked were pretty close to the quality of the original... when they worked. Between increased maintenance, broken printers and destroyed print outs I can't see how the TCO was much less than double the price of the branded inks.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
Digital photos are printed on proper photographic paper using a web-based service which returns the (non-fading, and remarkably cheap) prints in the post two days later.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I mean really, If I had started out with a blank slate and the intention of making a true jem of the worst part of the consumer electronics industry I would not be able to top what modern printer manufactures have come up with.
The previous Lexmark debacle was just another symptom. I refuse to believe that Ink for something that prints out my TPS reports is worth more than its weight in gold.
"The price of ink per milliliter from the big printer shops such as Hewlett-Packard Co. and Lexmark International Inc. has been steadily rising, at about 1% a year"
Excuse me, but wtf? It is supposed to be cheaper to produce a product as time goes on, and dont give me that "they are innovating the way things are printed". There hasnt been any corresponding 1% increase in quality over the years.
Now things are coming to a big market (refillers, do it yourself or walkin/internet retailers) and personally I cannot wait till they gut the entire industry down to a reasonable profit margin. The only complaints of the article were "not as sharp as the new HP cartrige", personally I can live with that if it means not being overcharged the next time I goatse my neighbors mailbox.
There is truth in humor.
I agree. I bought a samsung ml 1510 for £50 and when I found the replacement for the half filled cartridge supplied was also £50 I went to ebay and bought a bottle of toner for £5.
The replacements work fine and keep going and going ...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
What is it exactly that makes the quality worse? Is the ink less good? You would think they could fix that and add a buck or two - and still slap the HP and Lexmark on their fingers...
We never really use our inkjet at home. Most stuff gets sent to the ageing (7 y/o) Panasonic b/w laser printer, which was only 200UKP new - probably 120UKP for today's equivalent - and is on only its third toner cartridge. :) Even colour laser printers are quite cheap nowadays, at Digital photos are printed on proper photographic paper using a web-based service which returns the (non-fading, and remarkably cheap) prints in the post two days later.
Laser rocks
What service are you using for this? I've always got digital photos printed at the local Boots/Tesco/whatever, but an online service would be a lot more convenient.
I have three Canon printers - one i860 and two i865. I think they are great printers and have always used Canon ink as it is not that expensive. However, I would love to know what results people have had putting cheaper ink into it.
Comments please.
wot no sig
I work in this business but the trick is really really really, i can't stress this enough, don't buy a cheap printer. I'm suprised how many geeks completely ignore this part of their system, they'd sooner put neon lights in the case than get a decent printing aperatus.
7 2-236251-236261.html?jumpid=re_R295_prodexp/buspro ducts/printing/color-inkjet-printers
if you're looking to print anything, get a laser, they're built better, and cost less per page. if you must have ink jet, consider a draft printer or commercial quality high volume inkjet, i know HP sells an inkjet with a 60+ Ml black cartridge, that's a lot more than the 19 ml ones they give you in the cheapo consumer units. did a little research and here's a list of printers starting at 150 bucks that use 70 ML black cartridges.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/189
also worth noting, don't refill the cartridges for canon or epson printers unless you want to be replacing the printer shortly, it's like putting a bit of suger in the gas tank at every fill up.(hp's the print heads are disposable so it doesn't matter as much, and lexmarks aren't even worth mentioning)
-and occasionaly a giant moose.
Thousands of pages vs a few hundred and that's assuming the inkjets don't clog. Better quality output too. Then get a cheap inkjet for the occasional colour page.
Deleted
What HP says about refills and warranties:
"Using refilled print cartridges alone does not affect either the warranty or any maintenance contract purchased from HP for its HP Inkjet printers. However, if an HP Inkjet printer fails or is damaged because you used a modified or refilled HP Inkjet print cartridge, the repair will not be covered under the warranty or by the maintenance contract. Instead, standard time and material charges will be applied to service the printer for that particular failure or damage."
If your cartridges damages the printer -- which the HP service staff will readily claim -- you might have to payup for the damage done.
So who decides the cartridges are good or bad for the printer ?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Errr... I'll use the preview button this time.
:) Even colour laser printers are quite cheap nowadays, at £300 GBP. Print quality is great, print speed makes it frustrating to go back to inkjet, and there's no more hassle with changing tiny ink cartridges every few weeks, cleaning print heads, etc.
We never really use our inkjet at home. Most stuff gets sent to the ageing (7 y/o) Panasonic b/w laser printer, which was only 200UKP new - probably 120UKP for today's equivalent - and is on only its third toner cartridge.
Laser rocks
Digital photos are printed on proper photographic paper using a web-based service which returns the (non-fading, and remarkably cheap) prints in the post two days later.
What service are you using for this? I've always got digital photos printed at the local Boots/Tesco/whatever, but an online service would be a lot more convenient.
Honestly InkJets printers have the highest costs per print vs. Laser or Solid Ink. And the cost of these printers have dropped Rapidly.
Samsung Makes a Color Laser Printer for $600 that comes with full cartridges, which covers about 10,000 prints. vs Paying $80 for an Ink Jet and $70 for ink every 500 prints. If you do the math you find you are saving a lot of money in the long run. Also Solid Ink is really good too, just as good if not better then Laser for Cost/Page. (And for those you probably said they heat their old TekSolid ink, Solid ink has improved greatly in the past 5 years and are just as reliable as a good laser printer)
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I remember searching this out extensively when I took on a colour Epson printer from my brother. I don't have links to the sources, but I recall that the nutshell answer was that some manufacturers' prices were better or comperable to the generics, and some were worse.
Apart from factoring in cost of replacing print heads more often, and potential problems with DRM or voiding your warranty if they allege damage was caused by use of non-original ink (which I think in the US is in violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act, but I don't think is so here in Oz, tho I haven't checked) I recall there were two main factors:
One was capacity of generic cartridges - some have a smaller volume than the original, and hence this has to be factored in against their cheaper cost. Off the bat, this made the generics only marginally cheaper than the original for my printer. (I'm talking new cartridges, not refills).
The other was the quality of the print job. I was looking for a colour printer for photos, and it matters to me that the printouts would last perhaps 1-2 yrs before fading for the generics, versus a much longer (supposed) lifestyle for the Epson ink. Why save a couple of bucks if the photo will fade in its frame?
For me the answer was simple, and the Epson was much better value than the generic stuff. I recall finding material that suggested that it wasn't so clear cut for ink from other manufacturers, in particular HP. But I didn't chase that down.
fwiw, reading other peoples' experiences that it took a number of printouts before the generic ink replaced the original in the printer heads, and to expect smearing and poor quality until then, didn't exactly engender confidence that the inks were of comparable makeup.
-- "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong." -- HL Mencken
I used to use refill kits for my old canon bubblejet. I then changed it for an Epson C62 because I needed a colour printer. Lo and behold they'd fitted "smart" cartridges with chips that knew when the where empty and resisted all efforts to refill them. After a quick trip to the shops to buy replacements and finding out that they were £40 for the colour one and £29 for the black one, I said "fck that" and and just went back to the shop where I bought the printer and bought another one as the printer itself (which came with a set of cartridges) was only £60. Fortunatly I've now got a friend who runs a cheap cartridge website who supplies me with a full set for £6. Probably not as good as the official ones but for a differance in price of £63, I dont give a damn.
We've got an HP laser of about the same vintage. I think it was over five years before we had to replace the toner cartridge. My wife told me there was something wrong with the printer, and looking at her printouts my first thought was, "do they even sell the cartridges for this thing anymore?" Of course they do. You can get toner cartridges for the original laserjets
We also recently got an inkjet printer for the odd color document and for photos. Now a photo takes a tremendous amount of ink, to be fair. But we dont' really print photos that often; we're actually more likely to look at them on the screen. I'd say say we print photos about as often as I print things like refernce manuals on the laser. So while things may not be exactly equal, it's still fairly safe to say that we spend more on ink in six months than we spend in toner in five years.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I have used refill kits in the past and although they are cheap I find they tend to mess up your printer heads. I have lost two printers in the past to these refills. Now, I just use new cartridges.
Adventure City Tours
With the costs of laser printers dropping, I've taken the stand that I'll never buy another inkjet printer. Recently I bought a HP Laserjet 1012, which is not that much bigger than a good inkjet printer and reasonably fast (14 ppm I think). Toner is about $90 for a 2000 page cartridge.
If printing in color is ever really that important, I'll either get a color laser printer or print at work/school/Kinko's/etc.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
I've used jessops' online service and was very happy - first 10 photos are free if you want to try it out, then it's 20p a photo + £1.50 delivery. They also do mugs, t-shirts, coasters, etc.
jessops
you have NINE lexmark color print/scan/copy/fax units (42xx) because the whole thing (with carts) is cheaper than a new black cart
otoh
gotta love Target's electronic's department. when they clearance they don't fsck around. not crazy 'bout lexmark but a standalone color/fax/copier for $25 is hard to pass up
<disclaimer>I used to work for one of the online digital printing service providers.</disclaimer>
The quality of the prints was, I have to admit, pretty damn good. When I first started there the service was quite expensive and it was touch and go whether it was worth sending off to have them printed. By the time I left though the price had dropped greatly and the quality remained (at least in the basic prints anyway).
It's worth shopping round, you can get some really good deals such as a second set for free. The cheapest always used to be (in the UK at least) Bonus Print but they were cheap because they only did a very limited number of print sizes. There are loads of other services out there that will print you photos onto just about anything you can think (we even did a toy bear for a while!). The quality of the other stuff though is questionable at best. A 2MPixel camera will produce a pretty good A4 sized print.
I'm sure I will get shouted at for promoting it but there is actually a fairly good digital printing client built into XP. You select a folder with images in it and then select print from the left hand menu (you need folder view tured off). It will give you a list with a number of printing service providers. I don't know if it still works though - since leaving the company I have stopped using Windows.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
However, my understanding has been that color lasers are worse that color injets for photo printing. Additionally, it is my understanding that most pros use inkjets, not lasers to print their photos (Even in the not so large format 13" wide Epson 2100/2200 realm). Is this still true, or has color laser printing taken some siginficant leaps forward in the realm of digital photos?
...get 2/3 the price worth of use out of them.
In short, look at quality vs price. Then use the one that gives you the best ratio.
AC's modded -6. I don't see you, I don't mod you, anything you say is lost. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Not much.
A drum of ink, if memory serves, was around a couple of hundred dollars to synthesize. 55 gallons of purified, strained dye ink.
Now pigmented ink- thats far more expensive. The good ones are nano-milled which add (if memory serves) 300$ per kg to the production cost.
Ink is cheap.
The research, however, is very very expensive.
for a while (mid '80s), hp was starting to feel pressure on refilled toner cartridges and started making statements about refilled and/or third party toners breaking the warranty. i'm not sure that this was ever 'official' hp policy.
however, one day this stopped very suddenly. it turns out that there is federal law that says that if replaceable/consumable parts/materials by third parties will void the warranty, then those parts/materieals have to be provided free under the warranty. apparently, someone called hp on this and they have taken great care to note that the use of this stuff will *not* void the warranty. if it leaks, breaks, etc is a diffenty story.
eric
I think it's actually King's Yellow (yellow shade), Azire (blue shade) and Cinibar (magenta shade) :P
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
I keep buying new refurb printers from Fry's when I run out of ink.
I get a new printer each time that's more DPI.
Always go for the refurbs. They are the best deal.
If you buy ink replacements, WAYSA?
I bought a refill kit at Costco as it was the first one I'd found that had Photo Cyan, and Photo Magenta (for 6 color prints)
Aside from the hassle, I couldn't see a noticible difference in the prints after refilling. The _second_ refill however had a color drop out and I was too lazy to troubleshoot it. That's the nice thing about the HP printers - new cart = new print nozzles.
So, I'm pretty happy with at least one refill per cartridge...I also don't really mind the cost of the ink...you either pay now or pay later, I don't see why folks haven't figured that out.
Now, when my Laser Printer finally kicks off (May be soon, I doubt I'll replace the photo drum on a, geeze, 8 year old printer), I may seriously investigate a color Laser printer with an ethernet port on it...I've seen them as low as $350 w/o NIC and $450 with one.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
It turned out to be in the 6 figure range per gallon. (Although this story says its up to 8 kbucks per gallon) and there was this story about a US woman suing Hewlett Packard, saying its printer ink cartridges are secretly programmed to expire on a certain date.
Also, some people will want to do their own thing on their homecomputer but often have to print two or three pictures in order to get a good one. Many people are not skilled at getting the color, contrast and cropping right and they don't want the hassle. So for them getting prints the traditional way may be the best option.
Printer ink can be purchased by the gallon starting at about 100 bucks per gallon, depending on the usual factors
Other Comparisons (shamelessly stolen)
16 oz $1.29
16 oz $1.19
20 oz $1.59
16 oz $1.25 . $10.00 per gallon
12 oz $3.15 . $33.60 per gallon
6 oz $8.35
4 oz $3.85
7 oz $1.39
1.5 oz $0.99
9 oz $1.49..........$21.19 per gallon?!
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZjlwsales
4 1206) and for awhile he was offering free profiling of an image- definately worth the cost...
Its had one very good review (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2
BUT... if you want stuff to last, buy AgX prints. There's 100+ years of technology in that...
After a quick trip to the shops to buy replacements and finding out that they were £40 for the colour one and £29 for the black one, I said "fck that" and and just went back to the shop where I bought the printer and bought another one as the printer itself (which came with a set of cartridges) was only £60.
You really put one over on The Man there... *cough*
Let's see; you bought a printer with overpriced cartridges. Rather than replace it with one that took more sensibly priced carts, you bought the exact same model again.
Assuming that the carts that came with the printer were full (which I wouldn't assume, because it's often not the case), you're still going to have to shell out £60 every time you want to replace the ink tanks.
If buying a replacement printer to get new ink is cheaper, it only emphasises how overpriced the ink was in the first place. You're only getting £60 "worth" of ink with the new printer because the ink is horrifically expensive.
On the other hand, if you'd bought (e.g.) one of the new Canons, you wouldn't get as much as £60 "worth" of free ink with the printer- because the Canon ink isn't as expensive. You could, however, replace the ink with reasonably priced originals or no-nonsense replacements that don't come with ******* stupid chips. It would work out *way* cheaper in the long run.
Now, before you point out that you eventually got a full set of replacements for £6, that wasn't what I was arguing with. Fact is, your first move (before you found out about the cheap replacements) was to get a new printer, which is symptomatic of the short-termist "logic" of 3/4 of printer-buying consumers (though _they_ usually go for Lexmark because they're "cheapest" *cough*cough*). And when that lot runs out, you're back to square one; horribly expensive in the long, medium, and arguably even short run.
And that's not even considering the level of waste this "solution" produces. I can't believe we're wasting this planet's resources and filling up landfill sites simply to support some ******* stupid printer market that deludes us into buying new printers to "save money". It's not even remotely convenient. What a load of ****.
Damn, I think the expletive-bleeping machine just wore out.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Most users have no reason to take thier own fingerprints. My ma has a nice set of hers decorating her printer.
I have a Canon S300 ink(bubble?)jet printer, and I buy ink cartridges made by Pelikan, a company that knows a thing or two about ink.
I get *more* ink per cartridge, the black ink is *much* better than what Canon sells, and it costs *half* as much.
If Pelikan makes cartridges you can use, and you don't want to go through the hassle of refilling your own, I highly recommend them.
It's not the cheapest way to go, but hey - half price, more product, better quality. Not bad.
This Like That - fun with words!
I got tired of spending $50 to replace ink just because HP couldn't make a cartridge that wouldn't dry up after a few months or would just flat out expire (see previous /. stories if you don't believe...). Besides, now that HP has a $39 inkjet printer - we now live in the age of disposable printers. That's bound to be great for the environment, eh?
We've had a networked laser printer for quite some time, for a long time, an HP LJ 2300M with a Jetdirect card, and more recently an HP LJ 2420d. I moved the JetDirect card to it. The 2300M needed a lot of repairs after it got dropped. :(
The only, and I do mean only thing we ever used the Inkjet for was to print pictures on photo paper. I sold the printer with the remaining ink we had left for $100, sold the Wifi JetDirect box I had for the printer for another $250, and took my wife out for a nice dinner, and still had $200 in my pocket.
Our local CVS does digital prints that look tremendous, and cost a whole $0.29 each. If I don't have the time to mess with preparing the photos to be transported to CVS and all that, I just use iPhoto to order prints. I think next time I'm going to try to use the Kodak Bluetooth machines there in CVS. I'll just xfer the pics I want to print to my phone before I head over.
The unsig!
The quality often wasn't as good as with the name-brand cartdriges.
I've observed this as well. Where I used to work, we had a laser printer that got totally screwed up. We had an independent repair company come out, and they told us that it was because of the refurbished toner catridge we were using. We didn't think it made that much of a difference, so management kept buying them. Well, guess what, the printer screwed up again. By that time, we had switched to a different independent repair company, and they came out and said the same thing. All the while, when the printer did work, it was awful at producing broken letters and such; sometimes the output was nearly unreadable. After that, we only bought manufacturer-branded toner and ink supplies, and we never had any more problems with that printer.
I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that printer manufacturers are the only people capable of producing high-quality toner and ink supplies. And these supplies must be really, really cheap to produce; they make a killing off of selling them. I don't understand why a company doesn't come along that specializes in making super high-quality ink and toner products--even better than printer manufacturer supplies--and selling them for more than the crap refurbished cartridges and kits (to account for the added expense in producing quality) but less than printer manufacturer-branded products (since the production costs are still relatively cheap).
If I could find a company like that, I'd buy from them. Maybe there is one, but all the companies that I know of that sell off-brand supplies are notorious for selling crap that, at best, is inferior and, at worst, will actually screw up your printer.
Consumer Reports did a side-by-side test, as well as simulated UV exposure age tests. They found the same story -- refill ink was OK for drafts, but name brand ink looked and lasted much better.
You get what you pay for, anyone?
To save ink and paper, or recover your printing costs, just install a GPLed Print Quota and Accounting solution.
Works better for laser printers, but contributions are welcome.
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
Not to sound like an ignorant American, but what is UKP? UK Pounds? If so, can't you please just write £120?
you either pay now or pay later
I'd rather pay now. I'm one of those people who likes to buy stuff like printers to keep for ten or fifteen years. The problem with cheap printers and expensive supplies is that people like me end up paying a couple of grand for stupid $200 printer over the course of its lifetime. I would much rather pay a few hundred bucks extra and buy ink that's dirt cheap, something a lot closer to what the actual cost of producing it. In the long run, we'd save a LOT of money.
'tis the last hurdle of true WYSIWYG. why isn't there white printer ink?
Because (a) There isn't really a market for it, and (b) Printer ink works on the subtractive model, and to produce an ink that can print white on non-white paper would violate this model, and thus (more importantly) the ink itself would have to be substantially different in nature to the standard CMYK inks.
Think about printing white on black; the ink would have to be dense enough to *cover* the black up (something like 'Tipp-Ex'/'Liquid Paper'), and I'd guess we'd require a lot more of it on the paper. (Bear in mind that 'cover up' is the word here; this is neither subtractive nor additive- for the latter case, we can't add light. It also implies that the only way to get certain colours on certain non-white papers is to cover them with white ink, then use the CMYK inks on top of *that*).
All this implies new print-nozzle technologies would be required, and these would have to be separate from the current CMYK ones (there's *no* way they could design a nozzle that can handle 'normal' ink and the white ink *and* retain decent performance *and* sell it at a reasonable price).
Yeah, I realise you were possibly joking, but if it were trivial, I bet we'd have seen white ink by now.
Don't hold your breath waiting for it. Oh, and while I'm here.... In order to pre-empt any "white ink" jokes:-
"Uh, I can get you some white ink. Just wait till I get my pr0n collection, huh huh."
Pathetic. There goes the "insightful" mods...
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I've used foto.com a few times, and I'm very satisfied. Quality prints, fast delivery in a sturdy plastic box, and very cheap. I live in Belgium, but this are their prices for the U.K.:
6x4" £0.06 (0.09 EUR) incl. VAT
6x4.4" £0.07 (0.10 EUR) incl. VAT
8x6" £0.15 (0.25 EUR) incl. VAT
cost & delivery up to 30 photos: £0.99 (1.49 EUR) incl. VAT
I was sorly tempted by those cheap Samsung machines, but I could have sworn the cheaper models were WinPrinters. Any idea if they'll work with CUPS?
I gave up on inkjets and bought a decent but inexpensive laser (Lexmark E232). It cost me less than my first inkjet (an HP Deskjet 500 back in the day), and I've found that I really don't need to print in colour that often.
The E232 is ridiculously fast, too, which is great.
I've still got my inkjet (a crappy Lexmark Z32) on the off chance that I really do need to print colour some day, although I'm more likely to drop a PDF onto a CD and take it to a print shop... it'll be much cheaper than investing in new ink.
- chrish
You just need to buy a 10 gizmo to reset the cartridge chips.
Linux support and print quality is awesome on the cheap Photo printers (R2xx/R3xx), even with bottled ink.
I have used cartridge world in australia, UK and the US and never had any problems with printing out documents or photos. I have recommended them to everyone as Ive been so happy with the end product.
I donth think the problem is that ink costs so much.
I think the problem is more that the printer manufacturers want to grosly overcharg for the ink.
"What does slashdotting mean?"
"You've never heard of slashdot?"
"I know it makes websites not work."
6 different colors of ink for a consumer printer isn't fairly basic.
Still works. They returned Fujifilm, Shutterfly, and Kodak EasyShare (pka OFoto) All three were between 25 and 29 cents for a 4x6 picture.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
If you can believe it everybody here at the unamed government agency I work for has their own inkjet printer. Why? Because they are too lazy to get up and walk over to the $20K floor copier that nobody uses.
Sometimes the Federal Gov boggles my mind....when I worked in the private sector if I had asked my manager for a personal ink jet printer he would of passed out laughing and then after recovering would tell me to get back to work, use the floor copier and don't EVER ask for something so stupid again!
Do you really care if all you are doing is printing a mapquest map, or a webpage for the article.
My bad. i850 not i860. Great printer though, I've produced some great A4 prints from it.
wot no sig
Even if he's serious about the prices for toner replacements, that's still fucking funny. It's just as well to buy a brand new printer and throw the old one out! LoL @ Printer industry for this one, LoL @ the environment for taking a punch in the gut so this guy could print :)
I have tried several vendors for replacement ink. The prices have ranged anywhere from $1 to $20 per cartridge. Some haven't worked well, so I've had to try several sources to find ink that I like. I order about 10 cartridges at a time to save on shipping, so it ends up less than $5 per cartridge. I've been using non-Epson ink in this printer since I bought it new (refurbished) in the summer of 2000.
I don't remember what the original ink was like, but I like how things turn out now. If I have to have the a a sample of printing from the original ink in order to notice problems in the replacement ink, then they aren't big enough problems to worry about.
When it comes time to replace my printer, or add one, I will first make sure that there is a cheap supply of decent ink/toner.
This pricing stucture has been around long enough that if I buy an ink jet that needs $40 refills to get decent print quality, it's my own fault for not doing a little more research.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
The quality often wasn't as good as with the name-brand cartridges.
...besides that, printer quality often isn't anymore what it used to be.
'Often wasn't' is the key phrase here... often enough for me to go with low cost high quality no name products!
We've tried and tried to convince the powers that be, to stop authorizing the use of Ink jets. we have a bunch of really nice lasers, and even a couple of Color lasers that are sitting around idling most of the time. But people complain to their managers that they have to walk 15 feet to the printer, so the manager whacks IT till they get a ink jet. Morons. It's amazing to me how we, back here it in IT, have 1 common laser printer. Nobody has their own. We have no issues with that, and we're printing all the time.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
Why not just refil your cartridges with deoderant? The cartridge isn't empty, it's just dried out.
(Link not entirely SFW)
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
is that why they are so expensive? http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/printer s/index.php#drug-dealers-hide-drugs-in-printer-car tridges-107734
Peak Imaging
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I couldn't stand not posting it. I got 2 working inkjets using different technologies and I have nothing against them.
:) Printer counts, just printed a status sheet. Yes, that postscript show off page still prints, Epson still warns me that I should get a toner before it ends.
The stuff here needed huge amount of printouts, I had a spare money and I got really tired of buying ink (original) or printing via clone stuff (which DOES have diff.) so I went and bought a Epson C1100 Colour Laser.
The brand choice was not so random, I did my usual trick, checked around which brand does really care about OS X development etc.
The thing is, I really feel like I wasted huge amount of money to ink. Because of a illustration I misunderstood, I spilled 75% of toner (dust?) which you know, no printer comes with full. It was stated on manual already.
As I am lucky(!), my mailbox under that situation (black toner warning) has become full with 200 page word documents which _have to get printed_. Believe or not, that spilled toner printed:
443 total pages, 262 of them colour, 181 B/W
Of course I am not mad to count
I am not advertising a particular brand/model here but staring to the ink packages I still have on desk, I say something is wrong with inkjet technology.
If I had to print 30 pages/month, I would stay with ink of course.
I'll stick with my Panasonic dot matrix printer, thanks. When I print Mapquest and other useless, throwaway documents, the dot matrix does them quickly and cheaply enough. It can also print decent looking letters an forms for a fraction of the cost of the new-fangled technologies. Now get off my lawn you kids!
I must add something that Lasers do NOT need repair if handled properly, with proper paper and all the guidelines manufacturer tells.
Its my second post on this topic, my first one explains why I went colour laser and let me tell what made me sure about laser reliability:
Usenet.
I saw lots of people _still_ using Apple Laserjets which they bought years ago. They post occasionally about a driver problem etc.
My major concern would be whether the off-brand inks increased the risk of head clogging.
On another note! New printer is available it prevents all vowels from being printed, life of ink cartridge is 35% more efficient.
This printer is intended for kids age 13 to 18 who uses text messaging and doesnt know how to write anyways.
too bad my debian sid desktop is "free beer." if stallman had been planning ahead, i'd have "free ink" instead.
Serenity now, insanity later.
I have a Primera Bravo Disc Printer and the color and black ink cartridge is expensive as hell.
Anyway... since I know that the ink cartridge is from Lexmark and I can refill them with ink from Lexmark, I refill the cartridge as much as I can. This saves me alot of money and helps me to cut my printing costs as low as possible.
In no way will I always by new ink cartridges for that printer again. Only when a used cartridge gets to dirty, then I buy again a new one.
At the beginning I was affraid, that the output would never be as good as the original. But now since I get more and more knowledge on how to fill the ink into the cartridge, I don't see any negative effect in using a refill set.
To be honest: The quality is equal and since I can print with full ink saturation (I don't fear to refill the ink, since it is so cheap), the quality is even much better.
My old HPLJ-2 (that I bought for $10) is so cheap to run it's ridiculous. A $25 cartridge lasts me about two years.
I see new lasers for under $100, but the cartridges cost about $70; and they're smaller than the HP's.
I'm guess that even with the absurd cost of toner cartridges, laser's are a lot cheaper to run than most injet's. With home monochrome laser's around $100; and home color laser's around $600; maybe the era of inkjet's is over?
I bought an EPSON C42 2years ago for just 45. Official Epson INK is quite expensive, so i decided to buy cheap, recicled ink. It's just 6-8 for a black ink cartridge. And I can print 400 pages.
I have never had a problem with cheap ink. 2 years and my cheap EPSON prints with enough quality for me to do my University homework on it.
seriously, if the ink cost is bother you, try getting a dot matrix printer.
anybody with comparisons between long term cost of printer, maintenance, and inks of dot matrix and laser?
Live your life each day as if it was your last.
As far as I can tell, pelikan doesn't support USA. So it's useless to most of the of the posters here.
The problem in my experience with inkjets for "occasional pages" is it really depends on what you call occasional. I used to work in schools where the inkjets went between periods of "high use", "used not often" and summer break (not used). The low/no use periods would cause the ink to dry up and the microjets to become clogged, rendering the printers fairly useless.
£ isn't standard ASCII. Stick with 7bits, you know it's a good idea.
jh
For most folks there is a simple answer to the cost of inkjet cartridges : don't buy them. Instead, buy a monochrome laser printer. Lasers are much cheaper to run. The toner might cost more, but lasts long enough that you actually spend a tiny fraction of what you would have spent on inkjet cartridges. For color photo prints, have those done by a warehouse club - it is cheaper than printing your own, and you generally get better results and spend less time on it.
We use IMS Ink from Costco for our Canon printers. Under $0.30 a cartridge refill.
Don't forget these refilling tips:
1. CAUTION: Ink is permanent. Work over paper towel or absorbent material to catch any ink which drips or leaks during refill process.
2. Before refilling become familiar the refill kit contents.
3. Avoid contact with any of the cartridges metal contacts. Oil from fingers may interrupt contact with printer. Clean contacts with a damp lint-free cloth.
4. Remove ink jet cartridge from printer before refilling.
5. It is best to check cartridge periodically and add ink.
6. Try to avoid allowing cartridge to run dry. Refill as soon as possible.
7. Be certain to inject ink SLOWLY to avoid creating air bubbles which can cause poor printing results.
8. After using refill bottle, replace cap to store remaining ink for future use.
9. Sealed filling holes must be airtight to avoid ink leaking out of cartridge. DO NOT install a leaking cartridge into printer.
10. If your printer is not listed, try to find listing of printer's cartridge number.
11. Immediately replace cartridge in printer then follow specific instructions in printer user manual.
12. Cleaning or priming cycles may need to be performed more than once for some cartridges.
13. Photo inks are used ONLY in cartridges that use photo ink.
I use laser monochrome and an Epson colour inkjet.
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I have found a company (Skyhorse) which sell replacement cartridges of a unique design. They have an outer which holds the chip, and an inner tank which holds the ink. The inner seperates easily, is cheap, and has special holes in for refilling should you want to. You reset the chips with a simple resetter.
This lets me run the cheapest inkjet pictures there are - my wife is doing an art course, so I need to do this. Here is the url for the Epson cartridges - they also do them for other machines like HP. Find a distributor in your country!
http://www.tianma.net.cn/asp_en/product_new_3.asp
Odds are that the warranty will expire long before something breaks on the printer. At that point, it will be far cheaper to buy a new printer than to have a repair performed.
The thing that people don't seem to grasp about printers is Total Cost of Ownership. The TCO of laser is much cheaper in the long run because the cost per page is much lower.
Photo printing is cheaper and less hassle when done through a digital-to-print service too.
Earlier comment: IMS Ink, under $0.30 a Canon cartridge refill.
Excellent results. At that price you can print all photos full page size.
It's a minor hassle refilling the first time, easier all subsequent times.
I'm glad the parent post was already modded +5 Insightful, because I think it basically is.
I'd have to say though, I've worked in I.T. for at least one company where a mix of lasers, inkjets, and a color laser were all used - and I think to pretty good effect.
The engineering people occasionally had a need to print off digital photos from one of several digital cameras that were loaned out, and I have yet to see a color laser that could print out 4x6 glossy photos that look like real photos. So for that specific purpose, the inkjet was useful for them.
In the main office building, we had another color inkjet; an old HP DeskJet 1600C, which was designed for workgroup/small office use. It was networked and had pretty large capacity ink cartridges. It sat next to a color laser printer, which was the only other "color" device in the building. For certain things like printing transparencies, labels, or on special types/thicknesses of card stock, sometime the inkjet was the better choice. (If you get labels peeling off inside your laser from the heat, you've got a big mess and jam to deal with, for example!)
From what I understand, almost all of the Samsung printers work fine in Linux. I use a ML-1430 laser here that I got new for $99 with a full toner. Samsung offers driver downloads on thier website, but cups seems to include drivers for almost everything they have already. They offer PPC and x86 Linux drivers on Samsung's site.
Samsung is really winning me over these days, from printers with Linux support to the nicest LCDs, I always keep an eye out for Samsung products when I am looking for something new.
I got sick and tired of having to constantly spend close to $80.00 on cartridges for my ink jet printer (Epson Stylus PhotoSmart 700 or something like that). I had bought it because of a nifty (ooh - ahh) photo-quality picture insert in a magazine advertisement. I think I printed a single actual photo on that printer, and while yes, the quality was very good, the cost for consumables just wasn't worth it, and the damn thing kept clogging up (once I had to send it back while under warantee to get it fixed!). I finally got fed up...
I went to a local computer surplus reseller, and purchased a used a HP Laserjet 6P (25000 page count!) for about $100.00, and a refilled toner cartridge from a local supplier (Action Computers here in Phoenix, AZ - if you need ink products for anything made in the last 75 years, they probably have it or can get it!) - that was about 5 years ago, and I have yet to replace anything other than paper!
More recently, I have been doing a lot of looking around at local area Goodwill stores, and I have been noticing a seeming abundance of laser printers, many of them HP Laserjets (mainly 5x, 6x, and a few recent 1100's) - most of them going for under $25.00. I recently purchased a 5P for around $15.00 (IIRC), came with a toner cartridge and works perfectly, plus it too had a low page count (around 50,000).
I figure between cheap Goodwill laser printers and this site, I should have no more problems with printers in the future...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
to get replacement cartridges for my Epson Stylus C60 - and for $5.95 for black and $6.95 for color - with FREE shipping and ten percent discount coupons after you order a few - I'd say even if I got only 50% of the ink quantity I'd be well ahead of Epson's $30-35 price for cartridges.
And AFAIK I'm getting pretty much the same quantity and quality as Epson.
I don't how they make money on that stuff, but now they've expanded to offer printer paper and other related stuff cheap.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Sure the quality goes down; HP and Lexmark cartridges are designed to wear out fast. But if you buy a printer with a permanent printhead and ink tanks, and buy good ink that's formulated for the printer (not "one-size-fits-all" generic ink) you can get very good quality indeed.
I have a Canon i970 photo printer. I have never bought an OEM cart, when the ones it came with ran out I started refilling. I have refilled each tank about 25 times now, and the quality is still fine.
Wake up people. HP and Lexmark inkjet printers are cheap crap designed to be a continuous source of income for the manufacturers. Pay > $50 for a printer and save $100's later.
Epson also has permanent heads, but they take other steps (bottom loading carts which are messy to fill and cause bubbles, and chipped cartridges) to make refilling a pain.
Where I work some managers have inkjets for printing out confidential stuff they don't want casually observed at the common printing area. That seems like a good use.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The only ink jet printer i own is in my attic. My 4 dollar yard sale epson dot matrix works fine and the ink only costs $5.00.
Those hp laserjet printers aren't too expensive. I got a Laserjet 1100 for $249 almost 3 years ago and I'm still on the original toner cartridge. A new one will be about $90. That's about as much money as I blew in *INK* on a previous injket printer in 6 months, and I got half the quality.
there's an hp color laserjet for around $500 now, too. In the long run, it's a much much cheaper alternative.
Inkjet = days are numbered.
If you ever use a non-Epson in your Epson printer, NEVER EVER put Epson carts in it again, or goodbye printer. The Epson ink is designed so that it will react with cheaper ink and kill the printheads, which of course aren't removable. Of course, its cheaper to buy a new printer than to have your (now) busted one fixed.
I just refuse to buy any Epson printers any longer as I have had this happen even when only Epson ink was used in an Epson printer.
On the inkjet side I am now a Canon guy (despite the fact that they don't get Linux at all) for the one simple fact that you can install new printheads if the head fails.
In late 1989 (early 1990???) I picked up a DeskWriter from the first batch to ship with Appletalk installed. I paid $950, while an adequate laser printer would have been $3,000 (or just short of it). I tested a sheet with a cup of coffee in the sink--it ran some, but was still quite legible.
A couple of years later, laser printers did indeed make sense--but I was well stocked on ink cartridges again.
hawk
I've been out of ink for a little over a year now. I just print stuff off at work. >:)
Individually weighed down with chains.
Drop them into a trash barrel half full of water (that way takes a while).
I'm working over the summer in my parents' small business (Yes, I am writing this from my parents' basement). We print 50-80 pages a day of book listings (which we then find and ship, Amazon rocks my world).
For a little while, they were using a big HP inkjet all in one. I switched them to using an HP 1012 Laser that was lying around because I'm quite sure it's cheaper and it's a lot faster to print.
Right now, I'm trying to see if I can find a slighty larger and more efficient laser that prints at a cheaper cost per page - from what I've read, the LJ 1012 costs about 3-4 cents per page, which I think is a little high.
What's the best sub-$500 laser printer for cheap printouts where quality does not matter at all? I don't need color or duplexing, just single page black and white text prints at the absolute cheapest possible cost per page. I've looked at a few Brother and HP models, but it's extremely difficult to find a reliable cost-per-page measure in any review - I think they just make them up.
I gave away all my printers a few years ago. No more ink, no more paper!
With the savings, I was able to buy a slick little 2.5 lb Vaio laptop. It goes with me everywhere -- I use it instead of printouts. It's 40 Gig hard drive can hold the equivalent of about a zillion printed pages.
Are there drawbacks to this system? Yes. But come on. . . printers. . . ink. . . paper?
What's next, how to send information by FAX?
Hey folks, I work as a rep for the company, so I'll make that clear outright. Some things to consider with Epson stuff, (Just an FYI, I don't make enough money to make this post a personal gain).
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First off the carts are "chipped" for two reasons. First: The chips monitor ink levels for your convienence, and to let the system know when to stop printing and maintain a reserve.
Second: This reserve is designed to PROTECT your PRINTHEAD by maintaining a constant pressure of ink. The thing that kills Epson Printers is when carts lose the pressure in them, and the ink dries up in the printhead. Bang, Dead machine. Micro-piezo hardware is powerful, but delicate.
This is important because the ink system gives you an immediately dry, non-smudge print for photos (no one else, using a thermal, or "hot ink" system can do that.) Secondly, this higher resolution is better then what HP or Canon (until very recently, anyway) can beat. 5760x1440, versus 4800x1200. Optimized? maybe. but consider this - many pros swear by Epson Photo printers - I have a close friend as a photographer - the output from her 2200 pays her rent every month. (http://www.xandrabydesign.com./
ICC profiles are available for every Epson paper stock to take the challenge out of color matching for free, and drivers are updated periodically
to keep you happy. Our paper costs are pretty low, too. 17.99 - pack of 100 4x6 premium gloss, HP - 19.99 for 60.
A recent third party test by PC world showed the Stylus R320 to be one of the most affordable for 4x6 photo prints at about 49C a print. HP was about 83C, ink and paper included.
see:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,1195
Not Epson propaganda, folks - third party review.
(Note, the R800 uses a full pigment, 200 year print life ink system, same as the multi-thousand
dollar units, that's why it's a little more per
4x6.) 19c a 4x6 elsewhere? sure.. but will it last?
Ink life is another factor too: see
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,
Might be cheaper at first, but what are you really
getting?
With other vendors, generic ink isn't such a big deal, as thermal base is what the industry mainly
makes. The higher Epson Resolution uses a finer ink that no other printer uses or requires, as a result, the generic ink, frankly, doens't meet Epson Standards. No one else makes a cold-transfer borderless with no rip edge involved printer
at a low cost. And let's not get started about CD printing too. Or the first all in one that can scan and reprint negatives no computer required.
Again, I'm not out to make Epson look good, but I sell it on the weekends, and own an R300 I have been THRILLED WITH. (no, I don't get free ink or paper, either.)
Evian water 9 oz $1.49..........$21.19 per gallon?!
And "Evian" spelled backwards is?
The ink fills you.
ok i am someone who owns a inkjet printer and has used a refill kit and wile your right. the cheap ink tends to be a bit more blurry then the brand name it does work. i have a hp printer so it doesent matter blow up a print head sence they get tossed with the cartrage. the main problem with people who try refills is that theydont do it right and have bad print qualty. you are supposed to let the cartrage sit overnight to let the new ink settel if you dont you will get bad reasalts. if you do whant to refill and have the same qualty as a brand new brand name cartrage then buy brand name ink. yes you can buy the same ink hp uses a search on ebay will easly get you to the proper ink. alot of people make the mastake of buying the first one they see on the shelf and dont make shure its the proper one for there printer. wile it probly will work your going to have problems.
Hate to plug my own crap, but if it robs Epson/HP of just $10 in revenue it will be worth it... http://www.afrotechmods.com/Reallycheap/Ink/Ink.ht m
I'll never buy an HP printer again. The HP2000C and its expiring cartridges have soured me on HP forever.
I've seen the 8400 printing photos, and it's not even close to the quality you'd get from just takin them to walmart or costco, but for business presentations, it's a great deal on a great printer.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
If you buy a medium-end color laser, your cost per page should be pretty low. Check out printerdb.com. They will tell you what your cost per page is going to be. A great home color laser is the Dell 3100cn. Retails for $550 (you can probably get a better deal if you look a bit) and the cost per page is 8.1c for color, 1.1c for black and white.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Sounds like your experience was different, so I'm just curious which printer model you used.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent