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Rats 'Cripple' NZ Web Access

An anonymous reader writes "Drat! It was the rat! Telephone, mobile and Internet access in New Zealand was disrupted over four hours after rats were found gnawing through cables. More than 100,000 customers were affected and even the country's stock exchange came to a standstill. Powerless to take action against the rats, Telecom New Zealand is seeking compensation from the electricity company it says is responsible for knocking out another pipeline which eliminated backup services. Nothing like a backup plan."

305 comments

  1. Quadruple independent redundancy. by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Binary independent redundancy is often not enough these days. Like this incident shows, a single backup system is not enough. You need at least four systems to have a somewhat reliable system.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In some ways, I agree, but every bit of redundancy costs a lot, esp. if it involves laying more underwater cabling to Australia and Asia. Two lines are fine most of the time because the likelyhood of the second one going down before the first can be repaired is extremely small such that it is practically a fluke, like this.

      It happens occasionally, and there are excesses to try to fight against it, quad redundancy is quite a lot and probably overpaying by twice for something that almost never happens. Is it worth paying twice as much to add another "nine" to the uptime? I had some line problems myself, while frustrating, I just did other things instead.

    2. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Bane1998 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I keep telling this to my fiance. I need at least four prostitutes to back her up. I don't know what bothers her more, the idea of being 'backed up' or being 'redundant'.

    3. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      I keep telling this to my fiance. I need at least four prostitutes to back her up. I don't know what bothers her more, the idea of being 'backed up' or being 'redundant'.

      Why would you need four male prostitutes? You really don't have to resort to paying male whores to pleasure your woman. There are drugs out there, called penis drugs, that will make your erections actually erect. They might just cost less than these four male prostitutes you have hired (unless you got really cheap ones).

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    4. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Bane1998 · · Score: 1

      I feel so misunderstood... -sob-

    5. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by CyricZ · · Score: 0

      What? Do these men perform their art on your gonads rather than your wife? Is that what you meant?

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    6. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by jigyasubalak · · Score: 1

      Rats can multiply 1000s times faster than the rate at which you can have new backups.

      The solution lies in hiring a pied-piper, really.

      --
      The best planning can be done after the project completes.
    7. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by GileadGreene · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That depends entirely on the reliability of the individual systems that make up your redundant system. A binary-backup system can be as or more reliable than a quad system, if the individual components of the binary system are more reliable than the quad system.

      Having a quad backup adds a huge amount of cost, both in terms of buying the extra components, and in terms of the additional complexity involved in switching from one backup to the next. In fact, the more complex switching system can actually *decrease* the overall reliability of the system.

      More is not always better. Blindly adding redundancy without doing a real reliability analysis is a poor approach.

    8. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by darksider415 · · Score: 0

      However, a drawback to such systems is that it takes a large amount of resources to implement multiple redundancy. I do agree with you, though, and, if it is practical to install quadruple redundancy, it would be wise to do so.

      --
      And they wonder why I left Windows.....
    9. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by markwalling · · Score: 1
      reliability can be a great thing, but what about those damn posthole diggers. just because you spent twice as much for the best products for service reliability doesn't mean that they are immune to everything.

      don't they have the http://www.ufpo.org/ down under?

      --
      ...For the beast had been reborn with its strength renewed, and the followers of Mammon cowered in horror.
    10. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, what he originally said was funny. Your misinterpretation, not so funny.

    11. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GAY MARRIAGE should be LEGALIZED

    12. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by flithm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Either that or a rat free government policty.

      Leave it to a bunch of red-necks to come up with a poster that says "Kill Rats at Sight!"

      btw try the "rat quizes." My favorite question and answer is:

      9. Why do we control rats?
      a) because they are ugly
      b) because they spread disease
      c) because they taste bad

      Heh.

      btw you can mod me off-topic. But if new-zealanders were a bunch of oil happy gun toting beer drinking rat haters they'd never have lost their precious precious pornography.

      Also of note is the fact that the Alberta government estimates saving over 1 billion dollars since the institution of the rat control policy. 1 Billion!

      I'm pretty much a non-violent pacifist and all that, but seriously... kill the rats!!

    13. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      And what does that matter? How do we know that rats will be the cause of the next disruption? We don't know, that's just the fact. It could very well be sheep, trout, a shovel, etc., that is responsible for future cable breakery.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    14. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO it should NOT

    15. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES IT SHOULD

    16. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by J.+Random+Luser · · Score: 1

      The tragedy is not that two outages occurred near simultaneously about 200 miles apart. Those two cables feed in/out of Wellington, the capital city. A lot of head office command and control functions are located in Wellington, like as was reported telecoms, the stock exchange, banking, railway signalling (altho' they have an independent system, parallel & ~100 yards away from the ones that faulted, and also fault prone). This capital city sits astride an earthquake fault equal to the San Andreas.

      Why? It was chosen as a settlement for its harbor, deep, sheltered water, big enough for any fleet. The capital moved there a few years before two major earthquakes in the region. One virtually destroyed the young town and lifted the western harbour headland five feet out of the water. Putting cables in steel conduit may be little protection against these forces. Handwringing over the past 150 years has proved only that nobody can find any better place for the capital (at least we get the benefit of a clean sweep of politicians when the big one comes ;-).

      Drifting slightly OT one of the shocks of 9/11 was that nobody imagined that such an act could be committed. For many years the main telecoms cables southbound out of Auckland passed thru a section of PVC conduits on steel racking alongside a public walkway. I often wondered "what if" one day someone chucked a gasoline soaked rag there and lit a match...

      No matter what redundancy you put in the comms channels, they will converge on your control centers, so you also need redundant control centers. Who knows if anyone really did the risk analysis and decided it wasn't worth it here...

    17. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lolz @ faggtz

    18. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by ImaLamer · · Score: 1

      Is it worth paying twice as much to add another "nine" to the uptime?

      When it keeps your stock exchange running? Sure.

      I know latency is an issue - but why not use satellites for your nth redundant connection?

    19. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by thogard · · Score: 1

      Parts of the fault line in that area tend to move about 1/2 meter a year but have been known to move 1/2 in 3 months. That kind of movement isn't good for cables of anytype.

    20. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by sn00ker · · Score: 2, Informative
      Is it worth paying twice as much to add another "nine" to the uptime?
      When it keeps your stock exchange running? Sure.
      The stock exchange can place the blame on nobody but themselves. They have NO redundancy. A single connection provider, through a single firewall. They're not even peering at one of the peering points, unlike the National Library who were able to get a connection through Telstra Clear (with whom they had no previous relationship) up and running long before the fault was resolved. See this NZNOG post for details.
      --
      "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    21. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      In America, a set of backup tapes can be lost in transit before a rat can have an after-sex smoke.

    22. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Agreed, Wellington is prone to earthquakes. So 1M people live smugly on an active volcanic field which has the same likelihood (according to actuaries, when calculating your insurance premiums) of disaster, Of course. midway between Auckland and Wellington we have the world's most violent volcano.

      The entire South Island is apt to be rocked by quakes from an extraordinarily mobile fault line that runs the length of the island.

      BTW, in the first of the quakes in 1848 caused much damage to the fledgling capital. The inhabitants noticed that the wooden houses tended to survive whereas all the brick and stone dwellings fell down. Accordingly, the city was rebuilt in wood, except for one Baron von Alzdolf, who declared that the previous stone buildings were simply not built strongly enough---and was the only (or one of very few) person killed in the 1855 magitude 8.2 quake when his new, strong, brick building crashed on top of him.

    23. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Norgus · · Score: 1

      You just compared some downtime for an entire country to that of a single person (yourself)
      Add up the amount of time asted between all affected parties and you can't just say 'do something else'.

    24. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a seperate AC (seperate from the other AC in this thread), I find his misinterpretation extremely funny.

    25. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      Having a quad backup adds a huge amount of cost, both in terms of buying the extra components

      A compromise might be more cost effective: A highly reliable dual backup is used regularly but an additional backup copy is made at less frequent intervals and stored in a special place. Of course, if the first two backups are toasted, you are going back a longer time though there is still something to recover.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    26. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Cervantes · · Score: 1

      Where's mod points when I need em?

      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    27. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Xiaran · · Score: 1

      John Bourne Vertebrate Pest Specialist

      Wow. With a job description like that I bet he can impress the ladies.

    28. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      Well, can you blame them? They had a hanta virus outbreak, after all.

      Granted, I think that was field mice, but it's the same thing ;-)

    29. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

      Gotta blame it on something...
      Blame it on the rain that was falling, falling
      Blame it on the stars that did shine at night
      Whatever you do don't put the blame on you
      Blame it on the rain yeah yeah.

      Composed by Diane Warren.

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    30. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by GileadGreene · · Score: 1
      A compromise might be more cost effective

      No doubt. That's why you should do an actual risk and reliability analysis, in order to determine what the best compromise would be.

    31. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by djdavetrouble · · Score: 1

      Gotta blame it on something...
      Blame it on the rats that were chewing, chewing
      Blame it on the cio that didn't plan redundancy right
      Whatever you do don't put the blame on you
      Blame it on the rats yeah yeah.

      Apologies to Diane Warren.

      --
      music lover since 1969
    32. Re:Quadruple independent redundancy. by Tiggs23 · · Score: 1
      Nah, I agree with the first AC--it was reaching too much to be funny, since the post he was deliberately misinterpreting made it clear that it was the female who needed back-up/redundancy, not him. Trying too hard /= funny.

      (/offtopic)

      --
      "The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." --Ayn Rand
  2. Secret Plan by Adrilla · · Score: 4, Funny

    The real story is that the RIAA paid these rats to take down the lines, and if they have to take out some phone services to cut down on piracy, then so be it. Those sneaky sunsabitches, I'm watchin you RIAA/MPAA.

    --

    "Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
    1. Re:Secret Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should quickly invade New Zealand. Those freedom hating terrorist rats might eat through our own cabling. Our new rat masters would cause all of our telecoms to cease existing and civilization would come to a halt.

      One plus though...

      the all knowing and powerful MPAA/RIAA types would need to go back to the buskering they used to do before technology gave them a heads up.

    2. Re:Secret Plan by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm just glad terrorists didn't do this in the US. Who knows what would have happened.

    3. Re:Secret Plan by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "Paid the rats?" They are the rats!

    4. Re:Secret Plan by the+real+darkskye · · Score: 3, Funny

      We'd all have had a lot less spam today!

      --
      Music is everybody's possession.
      It's only publishers who think that people own it.
      Fuck Beta
      ~John Lenno
    5. Re:Secret Plan by mpe · · Score: 1

      I'm just glad terrorists didn't do this in the US. Who knows what would have happened.

      The DHS would be wanting customer records from all pet shops as well as recruiting forensic veninary dentists.

    6. Re:Secret Plan by daliman · · Score: 1

      What, "Insightful"? Obviously crack is more widespread over there than I thought...

    7. Re:Secret Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GW would come on looking serious.... TODAY, freedom itself was attacked!

    8. Re:Secret Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously we would have attacked Aruba.

    9. Re:Secret Plan by Gyga · · Score: 0

      The rats would seek compensation for being hurt.
      --
      When we look back on all we accomplished we think, oops.

      --
      I don't preview or spellcheck.
  3. Nothing like a backup plan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    And that's nothing like a backup plan...

    Plans? We don't need no stinking plans!

    1. Re:Nothing like a backup plan... by HeliumHigh · · Score: 0

      Ohh, do we have to have a plan? A plan means we have to do stuff. Can't we just have a mission statement? (Not perfect, but close enough. From redvsblue :) )

    2. Re:Nothing like a backup plan... by yobbo · · Score: 1

      Oh they need plans alright.

      Helen Clarke must to do sometheng about thus!

  4. Rats by Al+Mutasim · · Score: 5, Informative

    This must hit a special nerve with New Zealanders, who are trying to eradicate rats wherever possible. There are three types of wild rats in New Zealand, and none of them really belong there: black rats were introduced in the 1860's, brown rats were introduced on Captain Cook's ship in 1760's, and Kiore rats were introduced by Maori settlers in the 960's (plus or minus).

    1. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      dude you are some weird son of a bitch if you memorize the history of rats in New Zealand.

    2. Re:Rats by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "and Kiore rats were introduced by Maori settlers"

      They are also fat and delicious.

      Mainly fruiti-vores, they are less interested in eating eggs etc than the black or brown rat.

      Very mild mannered creatures. Typically enormously fat and slow moving.

      They should be farmed not eradicated :)

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    3. Re:Rats by Eradicator2k3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "There are three types of wild rats in New Zealand"

      Because the domesticated rats are much more considerate....plus they're easier to milk.

      --
      Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
    4. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, what?

    5. Re:Rats by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 1

      "dude you are some weird son of a bitch if you memorize the history of rats in New Zealand."

      Funniest and most on-topic post in this thread

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
    6. Re:Rats by houghi · · Score: 1

      If you go back long enough none of the lifeforms should be there. So how long should an animal me somewhere before you call it native?

      Should only some animals be taken away then, or also things like cows?

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Rats by Gleenie · · Score: 1

      In my day we called them "politicians".

      --
      -- Your mother uses Emacs.
    8. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Because the domesticated rats are much more considerate....plus they're easier to milk.
      I think you mean Malk
    9. Re:Rats by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Funny


      Hey, I'm a piper - need any help?

      Paul
      Piping Design Central

    10. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ???

      Go fuck yourself. Those of us who are not morons like to learn new things.

    11. Re:Rats by mikefe · · Score: 1

      It is my day, and we still do.

      --
      There: Something at a specific location.
      Their: Owned by someone.
      Please make sure your english compiles.
    12. Re:Rats by mantidae · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, its not unusual for kiwis who know their history, to know their rat history too.

      You see, there have been a few waves of colonisation , including the waves of the first polynesian voyagers.

      Rat remains have helped historians date those waves of settlement.

      NZ history book occaisonaly hit the bestseller lists here in Aotearoa (Moari name for NZ), and any discussion of dating early polynesian settlement is incomplete without discussion about rats.

    13. Re:Rats by NegativeOneUserID · · Score: 1

      Those of us who are not morons like to learn new things.

      I read that as "those of us who are not Mormons" and thought for a second that Ken Jennings was posting as AC. (You gotta admit that Ken Jennings would probably have the history of rats in New Zealand memorized)

    14. Re:Rats by ldpercy · · Score: 1

      For another bit of NZ fauna trivia:
      All of the remaining 80-odd kakapo (endangered NZ flightless parrot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo) are known by name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kakapo

      Douglas Adams apparently gave them a fond write up in 'Last Chance to See'. Incidentally, rats have been one of the major predators contributing to their decline in number.

    15. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and Kiore rats were introduced by Maori settlers in the 960's (plus or minus).

      The Polynesian rat was actually introduced to New Zealand about 2000 years ago, centuries before the Maori arrived in New Zealand.

    16. Re:Rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did the parent get modded up? Possibly one of the stupidest questions i've ever seen.

    17. Re:Rats by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 1

      If you go back long enough none of the lifeforms should be there. So how long should an animal me somewhere before you call it native?

      It's not a case of "how long?", it's a case of "how did it get there?" and "does it pose an environmental problem". New Zealand had no land-mammals (well, alright, it had bats) until around 1000 years ago when humans first started arriving. This enabled a unique eco-system to develop, which has come under enormous pressure from introduced species. Some, though not all, of the introduced animals created problems: possums, for example, are a right nuisance. Last time I was home I was ammused to see possum fur socks, labelled with "World Wide Fund for Nature" labels, because the WWF believe possums are an environmental problem in NZ. Deer, rats, stray cats, stray dogs, even wild horses are regarded with more hostility than they might be in, say, the UK or the US.

      Cows? Cows can stay. They don't run wild, chewing through fibre, unlike those fuc[NO CARRIER]

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
    18. Re:Rats by chris_sawtell · · Score: 1

      Not really. Standard NZ school biology because the rats were the only mammals in the country when the Europeans first arrived.

    19. Re:Rats by youknowmewell · · Score: 1

      So how long does a species of animal (or race of people) need to live somewhere before they 'belong there'? Jeez, the Kiore rats have been there over 1000 years!

    20. Re:Rats by rnws · · Score: 1

      Not quite - the only native mammals in NZ when humans arrived were three species of bat (the long-tailed bat (Chalinolobus) and two short-tailed bats (Mystacina robusta and M. tuberculata)).

      Most people forget about the bats back home (or don't even know we have 'em as they are so hardly seen).

  5. Suing the power company by katana · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course they're suing the power company. Lawyers won't sue the rats because of professional courtesy.

    1. Re:Suing the power company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I congratulate you on the first post in all of Slashdot's history that I've actually laughed at.

      That was genuinely humourous, as opposed to every other +5 Funny post that just says something that *should* be funny according to the principles of slashdot groupthink.

  6. What I want to know is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    who ratted the out?

    1. Re:What I want to know is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, now where did that -1 Lame moderation go...

  7. It's Always The Stinking Rats... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, blame the rats and the electric company for everyting. While you're at it, find the two-legged rats who couldn't bother to put in a redundant backup plan.

    1. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      In other news upper management of the stock exchange ratted on the engineer and laid off half the work to compensate for increase hiring in exterminators and pest control men.

    2. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      More likely the engineer will blame the intern who plays Halo 2 all day in the back room. However, the intern would have more motivation to make sure that the Internet connection stays up for multiplayer. The engineer was probably too busy playing the stock market to give a rat's ass. ;)

    3. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by Snarfangel · · Score: 1

      While you're at it, find the two-legged rats who couldn't bother to put in a redundant backup plan.

      I have only one leg, you insensitive clod.

      --
      This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
    4. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      Are you kidding? Telco's idea of a "redundant circuit" is two wires in the same conduit.

      Anyone think I'm kidding?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by mpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you kidding? Telco's idea of a "redundant circuit" is two wires in the same conduit.

      Or two conduits in the same trench. Even a conduit either side of the same (low) bridge.
      Too often what gets overlooked is that a system is only as redundent as its least redundent part.

    6. Re:It's Always The Stinking Rats... by LordIvan · · Score: 1
      a redundant backup plan

      hmmm... Why would they put in a backup plan that is not needed?
      Maybe the usage of the word 'redundant' is redundant in this situation? Or backup is redundant. But I'd have thought a backup is never redundant. Useful, those things. Having backups. Right?
      Unless maybe it's not a useless backup, rather, it's a very profuse and lavish backup plan. That makes sense. I think.
      Now where did I put my medicine?

      Main Entry: redundant
      Pronunciation: -d&nt
      Function: adjective
      Etymology: Latin redundant-, redundans, present participle of redundare to overflow -- more at REDOUND
      1 a : exceeding what is necessary or normal : SUPERFLUOUS b : characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary c : characterized by similarity or repetition d chiefly British : no longer needed for a job and hence laid off
      2 : PROFUSE, LAVISH
      3 : serving as a duplicate for preventing failure of an entire system (as a spacecraft) upon failure of a single component
      - redundantly adverb


  8. Liability by debilo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Telecom New Zealand is seeking compensation from the electricity company it says is responsible for knocking out another pipeline which eliminated backup services.

    Surely the electricity company put clauses in the contract excluding them from liability for failures and damages caused by things outside of their control? I take it for granted that every big company offering services of any kind have clauses for those cases.

    1. Re:Liability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely the electricity company put clauses in the contract excluding them from liability for failures and damages caused by things outside of their control?

      Um, where did you get the part about it being outside their control?

      When I RFTA, it didn't really describe what the electric company (allegedly) did.

    2. Re:Liability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardly outside their control, they drilled through a fibre optic cable. Companies (Local Councils,etc) have to check with Telecom before any drilling/underground work can proceed, otherwise things such as this occur - it's the company's fault for not checking.

    3. Re:Liability by RedWizzard · · Score: 4, Informative
      Surely the electricity company put clauses in the contract excluding them from liability for failures and damages caused by things outside of their control?
      The power company cut a cable while digging a hole. How is that outside their control?
    4. Re:Liability by Bob+The+Lizard · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to the news monday night (this was 5 days ago) they put a post holer through a trunk cable...

      (yes it sucked no highspeed for 4 hrs in the middle of a work day...)

      G/

    5. Re:Liability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely the electricity company put clauses in the contract

      You're overestimating the competence of managers in New Zealand. Anyone with half a brain and can go overseas does so. What's left are not even halfwits--and they're all NZ Born And Bred Bosses (or people who couldn't make it in Mother England). While PhDs from India, China, USA -- work in the local dairy and pizza-shops, or drive taxis.

      New Zealand is simply paying for the fact that it lets a bunch of stupid bigoted half-wit bullies run the place into the ground. Their loss.

    6. Re:Liability by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      The power company cut a cable while digging a hole. How is that outside their control?

      They could have subcontracted that work out to an independant construction firm very easily.

    7. Re:Liability by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      And that subcontractor MUST perform the duties with the same level of skill as the electric company.

      Subcontracting does not relieve you of your responsibilities.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    8. Re:Liability by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 1
      According to the news monday night (this was 5 days ago) they put a post holer through a trunk cable...

      Post holer...digging holes for posts.

      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
    9. Re:Liability by DemingBuiltMyHotRod · · Score: 1
      "Subcontracting does not relieve you of your responsibilities."

      But it often relieves you of liability.

    10. Re:Liability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trouble with Telecom is that their plans showing the location of their cables is less than reliable and their placement of services reasonably haphazard

    11. Re:Liability by RedWizzard · · Score: 1

      The trouble with Telecom is that the government gifted them a monopoly that they never should have had: the local loop. They never would be able to get away with this sort of unreliability if there was true competition in the telecommunications market. For God's sake, if you're a government looking to privatise, do not privatise monopoly infrastructure.

  9. Outage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This happened on Monday. Today is Friday.

    It was a quiet day at work though :)

    1. Re:Outage by redsoxunixgeek · · Score: 1

      But in other news, the office of offical career titles have just announced a new occupational title of Information Technology Exterminator...

    2. Re:Outage by trime · · Score: 1

      It's getting ridiculous. This has been the second major outage to NZ's telecommunications in as many months, and just today we've all been using cellphones because apparently someone disconnected the main cable between Wellington (the capital city) and the city on the other side of the harbour.

      At least I'm not the guy pedalling on the UPS...

    3. Re:Outage by nomadic · · Score: 4, Funny

      This happened on Monday. Today is Friday.

      With the lines down there was no way to communicate the outage to the outside world.

  10. Monopoly by fgl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A good example why a monopoly is vulnerable, I was @ work during the outage, & so didnt really notice so much, but I hear it was very disruptive.
    What are the odds of rats chewing through a main trunk cable on the same day a local power company cutting a second main trunk?

    --
    Go Away! Not for Sale
    1. Re:Monopoly by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      What are the odds of rats chewing through a main trunk cable on the same day a local power company cutting a second main trunk?

      Well, they must be pretty fucking good, considering it did just happen!

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    2. Re:Monopoly by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      IIRC, one fault happened a day or so previously, and was being fixed when the second fault occurred.

      Personally, it smells like BS to me. I reckon somebody at Telecom fucked up, and they had to blame it on an "Act of God" to avoid enormous financial liability.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    3. Re:Monopoly by fgl · · Score: 1
      it smells like BS to me
      I would have to agree, but how can we really tell?
      [shrugs]
      --
      Go Away! Not for Sale
    4. Re:Monopoly by bmgoau · · Score: 2, Funny

      And all the while we Australians sat and watched as the new zealand civilisation crumbled in the darkness

      Phase one of our takeover is complete....

      Now it is time for the invasion!

      Go rats, destroy the new zealanders, and there will be limitless piles of cheese for all!

    5. Re:Monopoly by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
      What are the odds of rats chewing through a main trunk cable on the same day a local power company cutting a second main trunk?

      Well, they must be pretty fucking good, considering it did just happen!
      OK, time for a statistics lesson.
      The universe is about 13,000,000,000 years old.
      In all that time, a rat chewing through one cable while a cutting tool cutting through another has occured just once, where said chewing/cutting has resulted in a communications failure in a major metropolitan area on the plaent Earth.
      That places the odds of such an event happening in any one year at 1 in about 13,000,000,000.
      Using that probability as a guide, I think that it's safe to say that everyone can ignore the problem.
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    6. Re:Monopoly by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      Being Atheist, I refuse to accept that excuse.

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    7. Re:Monopoly by Alsee · · Score: 1

      I was @ work during the outage, & so didn't really notice so much either. I didn't realize the net was down until after lunch (I 8 celery and ^ + = in my coffee, damn diet, damn £ problem). Before lunch I was reading /., but when I got back the page was blank. I tried everything but I couldn't get \. or any other site. I took a bathroom break 2 empty my : and found net still down, so I pulled out my | filled it with # and smoked 4 the rest of the afternoon. The boss asked me why I wasn't working and I told him to ? about it (Mark being our resident network expert).

      Yeah, it left our customers totally %@#$!ed, but I _ that I didn't find it personally disruptive. Que sera sera.

      Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
      Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  11. They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thank god the sheep didn't rise up against their internet access or they'd have been in real trouble.

    1. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Flamebait? C'mon! Sheep outnumber humans in New Zealand 11:1! If they ever rose up, they'd have a real problem on their hands.

      I've been to New Zealand. It's a beautiful country. The Southern Alps, the hot springs, the Maori culture. Seriously, I recommend everyone visits. Just keep an eye on the sheep, though, that's all I'm saying.

    2. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, the number of sheep in NZ has dropped, there a more sheep per person in Australia - so they have dingo's and sheep to play with now.

    3. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just because all the bastards migrated to Australia! Join the protest, send the sheep back to New Zealand TODAY!

    4. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by kfg · · Score: 1

      Just keep an eye on the sheep, though. . l

      Just keep your eye on Harold, that most dangerous of creatures, the clever sheep.

      KFG

    5. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need for visitors to keep an eye on the sheep. The locals do that already

    6. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      so they have dingo's and sheep to play with now.

      Just wondering: what kind of "play" do you have in mind?

    7. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1
      --
      [o]_O
    8. Re:They Were Lucky This Time by ZOmegaZ · · Score: 1

      Oh, you're worrying too much. I'm sure the locals keep one eye on the sheep at all times.

  12. Unpunished? by venicebeach · · Score: 4, Funny

    But the rodents will go unpunished

    What?? How can they let them go unpunished? They need to at least go out and punish a few in a highly public manner to send the rest a message, kind of like when there is a shark attack and they go hunting for "the" shark that did it.... We can't let the rats get away with this!!

  13. Seeking compensation? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So Telecom is seeking compenstaion for fixing this. Fair enough you might say? The irony here is that Telecom has publicly stated they will not be paying *other* businesses for their losses due to the network going down.

    To put this in perspective, much of the countrys EFTPOS system went down. Much of the countrys mobile network went down. Much of the countrys DSL network went down. That means, NO electronic sales transactions, NO websites, NO email, NO mobile calls. LOTS of lost productivity and sales here.

    Even the friggin stock exchange went down - the 2nd time in a few weeks due to a Telecom fault! No wonder they don't want to compensate people - even Telecom doesn't have enough money for this.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    1. Re:Seeking compensation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whats more they aren't compensating home users or taking any blame or responsibility for pissing off a lot of geeks for three days or so.

      We're good people.

    2. Re:Seeking compensation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good Job there were no major fires too, the Fire alarm reporting network - ATS - was down too.

    3. Re:Seeking compensation? by bmgoau · · Score: 1

      Over here in Australia we have Telstra, they actually own a portal to hell, they are pretty evil, but to send a squad of rats to take out a powercable causing much of a country to loose its communications tops the list...

    4. Re:Seeking compensation? by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1

      Much of the countrys mobile network went down.

      Luckly most people in NZ don't have their mobile with Telecom -- they only have a 45% marker share versus competitor Vodafone's 55%. I hear Vodafone's network was working perfectly well throughout this outoage. Anyway it was only the Lower North Island part of Telecom Mobile's network that was affected.

      Ditto for other stuff, the outoage was a major one not not as widespread as the parent post makes out. People in Auckland (the largest city in New Zealand), were not affected. People in many other major NZ cities (excluding Wellington and Palmerson North) were not affected as well.

      - James

    5. Re:Seeking compensation? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      Not widespread? Well, down here in Dunedin the Internet and EFTPOS died - and of course, Telecom helpdesk died too. I got my initial information from the TelstraClear answerphone. Haven't actually heard about Christchurch.

      That said, if Auckland had been majorly affected I think the outcome would have been much worse for Telecom. Bigger players and bigger dollars at stake.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    6. Re:Seeking compensation? by sn00ker · · Score: 1

      Uh, anyone whose ISP keeps their authentication servers (that's most of them) north of the cut was taken offline. Similarly the few people for whom it goes the other way.
      There ARE services hosted south of Palmy, y'know, and they were unavailable to Aucklanders and everyone else north of Palmy/Wairarapa.

      --
      "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    7. Re:Seeking compensation? by sn00ker · · Score: 2, Informative
      Just to explain this for people not familiar with NZ's financial system, we're heavily electronic. The vast majority of retail purchases, even if they're only a few dollars, are conducted by electronic transaction not with cash - Electronic Funds Transfer at Point Of Sale.
      All the EFTPOS transaction processing is done in Auckland, so everyone south of the cut - about half the population - was isolated from the engine room of retail sales.

      To compound the matter, bank ATM networks are all run from Auckland, so people couldn't get cash out either. And similarly they couldn't use electronic credit card transactions because that relies on the EFTPOS network.

      The financial implications are pretty severe, though it was only for four hours and on a week day so they're well below what could've been.

      --
      "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    8. Re:Seeking compensation? by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1

      Uh, anyone whose ISP keeps their authentication servers (that's most of them) north of the cut was taken offline. Similarly the few people for whom it goes the other way. There ARE services hosted south of Palmy, y'know, and they were unavailable to Aucklanders and everyone else north of Palmy/Wairarapa.

      I have a friend who works and lives south of Palmerson North (in Levin to be specific) who said Internet was working OK. Apparenly in his area ADSL was alright although Dialup was having heaps of issues with various ISPs.

      - James

    9. Re:Seeking compensation? by sn00ker · · Score: 1
      I have a friend who works and lives south of Palmerson North (in Levin to be specific) who said Internet was working OK. Apparenly in his area ADSL was alright although Dialup was having heaps of issues with various ISPs.
      Well, I had dialtone in Lower Hutt but my DSL was well 0wned. I was just glad that my employer is on TelstraClear (never thought I'd say that), so we had zero downtime.
      --
      "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    10. Re:Seeking compensation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all of it is done in Auckland, some of its done in Melbourne via network links in Auckland :-(

    11. Re:Seeking compensation? by daliman · · Score: 1
      While absolutely right, you missed the fact that a significant portion of NZs fucking _telephone_ network went down because of this.

      Yeah, the fucking phones were out. I work for these guys (http://elections.org.nz/ Electoral Enrolment Centre ) and the timing was a little off, to say the least. Given that we produced the first rolls for the next election here just after, the timing was just a little off...

  14. I hear over in Australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A dingo ate their cable.

    1. Re:I hear over in Australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, wrong country. NZ is not OZ. Plenty of dingos in OZ.

      - Moomin

  15. Warning Rat Overlords Joke comming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I for one welcome our new rat overloads.

  16. Bring on the pied piper! by Scott7477 · · Score: 1

    Tell the Kiwis to make sure to pay him after he lures away the rats, or he'll take their kids too.

    --
    "Lack of technical competence coupled with the arrogance of power, as usual, leads to no good end."
    1. Re:Bring on the pied piper! by Meetch · · Score: 1
      I doubt that...

      ... their sheep though...

  17. Rats? Puerto Rico by ArmorFiend · · Score: 2, Funny

    Any other Puerto Rico players in the house thinking "man, and I thought having my 3 tobacco eaten by rats was bad, but internet, oh yeah".

  18. US Navy Destroyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The steering (rudder power and control) on those ships is 5 way redundant. 6 if you count manually cranking the rudders.

    so... yeah... like that.

    1. Re:US Navy Destroyers by Ripping+Silk · · Score: 1, Funny

      And funnily enough... these destroyers are not allowed in New Zealand waters... a sense of dark irony is evident...

      --
      this is not a flawless plan.. this is inspiration
    2. Re:US Navy Destroyers by sn00ker · · Score: 1
      And funnily enough... these destroyers are not allowed in New Zealand waters...
      Actually, they would be if the US wanted to send one. However, the stiff necks in Washington refuse to accept anything less than total capitulation to the US position - namely, NZ must repeal the legislation banning nuclear-powered vessels before the US will send even conventionally-powered vessels.

      Oh, and wasn't it a destroyer of the US Navy that was brought to a halt courtesy of NT4?

      --
      "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    3. Re:US Navy Destroyers by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Oh, and wasn't it a destroyer of the US Navy that was brought to a halt courtesy of NT4?

      This always comes up and people always remember the 'it ran NT' thing, but noone ever remembers that it was the database application and management system running on NT that was the cause of the problem. Bad data went into the thing, and the engine management system shutdown because of it, causing the ship to be towed into port.

      Im all for bashing Windows when its valid, but please...

    4. Re:US Navy Destroyers by lanc · · Score: 1

      Anyway, the old term 'buggy' could be replaced now with 'ratty'.

      "Lousy $FIRM provides so so a ratty service, you cannot imagine".

      --
      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
    5. Re:US Navy Destroyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has long been US policy to neither confirm or deny the existence of weapons of mass destruction [nuclear, chemical, or biological]. Visiting a New Zealand port with a ship with current policy in place would thus be confirmation that such did not exist on that ship.

    6. Re:US Navy Destroyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Having serverd my time in the U.S. Navy. Going somewhere where there few if no other fellow sailors sounds like a vacation paradise. One drunk sailor in the pub is just enough for me.

    7. Re:US Navy Destroyers by kiwipeso · · Score: 1

      Really, guess you don't want to go where there are drunken french sailors, drunken indian sailors and really drunk kiwi sailors.

      --
      - Kaos games and encryption systems developer
    8. Re:US Navy Destroyers by walstib · · Score: 1

      guess you don't want to go where there are drunken french sailors

      Actually I don't want to be anywhere there are French people period. Drunk or sober, sailor or surrendering soldier.

      --
      The most dangerous strategy is to jump a chasm in two leaps. - Benjamin Disraeli
  19. Sadly, a trend by Cauchy · · Score: 1

    Lest we forget, Auckland lost power for 2 months in 1998, causing significant damage to the economy of the country. Perhaps the Kiwi just aren't able to handle utiliites?

    All Blacks, bah! Go Springboks!!!

    1. Re:Sadly, a trend by Bloodrage · · Score: 1

      Ah, this would never have happend if the Government still owned our power and phone. :P

      --
      i am endorsed for the carrying of dangerous goods, please be giving me your depleted uranium
    2. Re:Sadly, a trend by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find our utilities companies are largely foreign owned now anyway.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    3. Re:Sadly, a trend by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 1

      Absolutely! We'd never have outages if the gov ran them.. to have an outage you kinda require that it be on at some point.

      --
      NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
  20. Would compensation really help? by CyricZ · · Score: 1

    Demanding compensation from Telecom would be pointless. Suppose they do pay out to those who were affected. Do you know what happens the next month? Their service rates skyrocket to recoup the money they lost during the payouts. In the end, those who received such compensation would likely pay it back two or three times over.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Would compensation really help? by taniwha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I lost a day's work, but they still charged me for my DSL even though I couldn't use it - you figure out who's being ripped off here!

    2. Re:Would compensation really help? by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      Have you considered billing them yourself for the downtime, perhaps for the amount you paid for your non-functional service that day?

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    3. Re:Would compensation really help? by astromog · · Score: 1

      Come on, it's Telecom! What were you expecting? Them to treat you well? They haven't exactly got a good track record with being fair.

    4. Re:Would compensation really help? by taniwha · · Score: 1

      given past experience that would involve me spending at least 2 hours on hold, given my hourly billing rate that's a losing proposition (for me at least)

    5. Re:Would compensation really help? by taniwha · · Score: 1

      yeah but it's the 2nd time in 6 months (for me anyway), good thing I'm not running a business over the net (oh wait I am .... I have to quit whenever it goes out)

  21. Nothing but sympathy by Gleenie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for their competitor. Most people in operations here had nothing but sympathy - that kind of coincidence is nothing short of one in a million.

    And it just goes to show: Murphy rules, stuff breaks. At least in this country most people are willing to accept that...

    --
    -- Your mother uses Emacs.
    1. Re:Nothing but sympathy by taniwha · · Score: 4, Informative

      I call bullshit, I'm weeping croc tears here - it's now happened twice now in the past 6 months for me (in Dunedin), previous one was a backhoe someone put thru the fiber north of here, you may have redundancy where you live but Telecom here is always one accident away from me not being able work at any time. Given the way they are making money hand over fist from their monopoly you'd think they'd spend some money on infrastructure (I can call Auckland from my US Vonage account for 1/3 what it costs to use my telecom phone - the town is plastered with fliers for 1c/min calls to China, why not Auckland?)

    2. Re:Nothing but sympathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can get free calls to auckland if you use slingshot adsl broadband + italk service

    3. Re:Nothing but sympathy by taniwha · · Score: 1

      hmmm - signup page only works in some browsers, italk requires me to buy a windows machine, no thanks

    4. Re:Nothing but sympathy by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      previous one was a backhoe someone put thru the fiber north of here

      Most underground industrial cable installations I've seen during construction projects (YMMV) have a layer of concrete poured over top. After it dries, it is painted red so that the future backhoe operator knows that he's approaching cable (whether power or signal).

    5. Re:Nothing but sympathy by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      I worked at a coal mine where the main comms bundle ran about a kilometer from the telstra fibre optic terminaton shack to the control room.

      Well, someone had to dig near the middle of it one day, so we look up the survey - it said "cable to be buried min 1m covered with 30cm sand,2 layers of warning tape at 30cm and 60cm. Signs erected every 25m denoting cable location and direction".

      So we're out looking for the trench/and or signs. No sign of the signs, or trench.
      Someone says, "So, what's that over there? It's a cable, just lying on the ground."
      We all go, "Naaaaah, that can't be it."

      So after about 10 minutes , we head back to the shack to try and pinpoint it from there.
      The cable came directly out of shack, and ran the kilometer to the control room under a fine protective layer of leaf litter cand cow dung.

      It turns out that in the mad rush 3 years ago to get the control room on-line, they'd rolled out the cable, hooked up both ends and said, "We'll dig the trench for that later ...". Apparently the contractor later just decided to skip all that tedium of actually digging the trench.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    6. Re:Nothing but sympathy by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      Interesting post. I can sympathize with you, having worked in refineries and other facilities (it's not that these places are "unsafe", it's just that many bits are undocumented due to budget runout or perceived job security).

      I guess that just goes to prove that things can be hidden in plain sight. Actually though, as-built drawings should have been made of that facility, no matter how embarrassing to the contractor/installer. Everyone always forgets that a construction budget is an estimate, not a wall. At the same time, people who realize that paid work is coming to an end tend to work slower in order to delay the inevitable.

      As with most projects, the final 5% usually takes 25% of the time with all the attendant problems. One of those problems tends to be foregoing as-builts and letting things slide as long as the built thing performs as (or near) promised.

      http://www.inovx.com/solutions/plant_workpr.html

  22. Rat Project Management by William+Robinson · · Score: 1
    The interruption occurred after two service pipelines on the North Island were knocked out within hours of each other -- one by a power company post-hole digger, the other by industrious rodents. The rats attacked cable on a bridge north of Wellington protected by a steel duct.

    Good planning, rats!!!

  23. Sounds familiar... by graveyardduckx · · Score: 0

    I work for a major freight company in the Southeast US. One day the power in our corporate office went out unexpectedly. Our backup generator didn't keep our power on, and we couldn't figure out what had happened... until we found a chunk of power cable outside that had the insulation chewed though by squirrels. Needless to say there was no squirrel to be found, but we named him Sparky anyway.

    1. Re:Sounds familiar... by CyricZ · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      How do you know it was squirrels if no evidence was present? Frankly, that sounds a lot like the case of Sept. 11, where Arab terrorists were blamed for attacks, but no evidence of their involvement was ever found. Are you sure you weren't just looking for a scapegoat?

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    2. Re:Sounds familiar... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Frankly, that sounds a lot like the case of Sept. 11, where Arab terrorists were blamed for attacks, but no evidence of their involvement was ever found.

      What are you, stupid? The maojrity of the hijackers were saudi.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    3. Re:Sounds familiar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no squirrels in NZ, you wombat.

    4. Re:Sounds familiar... by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty bold claim. Can you even offer any proof?

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    5. Re:Sounds familiar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean scaperat?

    6. Re:Sounds familiar... by Jackdaw+Rookery · · Score: 1

      "Given that there were 15 Saudis among the 19 hijackers who commanded the airplanes in the September 11 attack"
      http://uspolitics.org/student/terrorism/terrorism1 .htm

      I'm sure any link provided for you will not be good enough so you will need to DYOR to confirm this.

    7. Re:Sounds familiar... by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      That's a link to some unsubstantiated site. I want physical evidence, my friend. Nothing less.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    8. Re:Sounds familiar... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      I want physical evidence, my friend. Nothing less.

      Sure, no problem. I have Mohammed Atta's teeth in my glove compartment.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  24. That's where the free market steps in. by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Indeed, there are economic repercussions from extra redundancy. That's where the free market steps it. It will result in redundancy equilibrium: the amount of redundancy the marketplace is willing to financially bare. In this case, there is a possibility that their two lines were not enough, and the redundancy equilibrium may now shift to three lines as a result of this systemic failure.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:That's where the free market steps in. by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      > Indeed, there are economic repercussions from extra redundancy. That's where the free market steps it. It will result in redundancy equilibrium: the amount of redundancy the marketplace is willing to financially bare. In this case, there is a possibility that their two lines were not enough, and the redundancy equilibrium may now shift to three lines as a result of this systemic failure.

      So you're saying that 2 didn't work; but 3 will definately be worth the costs? I wish they'd thought of that when they went from 1 to 2 ...

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:That's where the free market steps in. by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're saying that 2 didn't work; but 3 will definately be worth the costs?

      Read more carefully next time. Grandparent wrote redundancy equilibrium may now shift to three lines.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:That's where the free market steps in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is willing to financially bare

      "bear".

  25. Re:Rats? Puerto Rico by meowsqueak · · Score: 1

    As an avid Puerto Rico player, I have to say that "No, I didn't think that at all"... where do rats come into Puerto Rico? Are you referring to goods spoilage after a captain round? I'd always put that down to oxidation/rotting, but I guess rats would do it too...

  26. What they really need... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

    is a cat named Bugsy. Them cats can be nasty to rats, but especially cats named Bugsy.

  27. State of NZ broadband by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/NL/FC31E734EFD D0739CC2570290016D8F1

    Telecom is an American owned company.

    The local loop they use to fleece NZ residents who use their sub-standard "broadband" (Telecom once tried to market 128k plans as broadband..) is in fact publically owned. As the NZ Commerce Commision has no balls Telecom remains in control of this and thus continue to be a greedy monopoly.

    The above article should remove any doubt of this.

    1. Re:State of NZ broadband by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Then go to the Japanese they'll make that stuff work.

      Come on you've read "Mother earth motherboard" get on it!

    2. Re:State of NZ broadband by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1

      Telecom is an American owned company.

      Not 100%. Telecom is listed on the NZSX so they have shareholders from various countries, including many New Zealand-based shareholders. They were once 100% owned by two USA telcos, but that is no longer true.

      - James

    3. Re:State of NZ broadband by spagetti_code · · Score: 1
      It just about makes me cry to read our "defender of the little guy" (from TFA)
      The Commerce Commission appears to agree with Telecom that 128kbit/s is fast enough for business users.

      Has anyone tried to connect to MSExchange using outlook over 128kbits? If I'm VPN'ing in, I'm getting 128kbits download from the exchange server. Its just not pretty.
  28. That's being unkind by lheal · · Score: 4, Funny

    to the rats.

    Actually, I love lawyers. They taste like chicken.

    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
    1. Re:That's being unkind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lawyers, if one were to eat one (which I would not) would taste like fecal matter.

      Who do we hold accountable for all the wild lawyers in the US?

      Cook? He had more sense than that.

    2. Re:That's being unkind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are also fat and delicious.

    3. Re:That's being unkind by gotw · · Score: 1

      I always imagined lawyers to taste like the large juicy rump steak of a fat, well fed, organic, free range cow.

      I love steak, I think I'd eat lawyer steak raw and steaming.

  29. Obligatory Lawyer Joke by KennyP · · Score: 1, Funny

    Didn't know they could chew through anything other than their client's money..........

    Visualize Whirled P.'s

  30. Other biological controls by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

    The rats would have been eaten or chased away if they'd invested in Cat 5 cable.

    1. Re:Other biological controls by Scott7477 · · Score: 1

      Nice.....So you're saying a lan party could be referred to as a cat and mouse game?

      --
      "Lack of technical competence coupled with the arrogance of power, as usual, leads to no good end."
  31. This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Almost-Retired · · Score: 3, Funny

    being the absolute best at finding cables, beating any other method by at least 2 orders of magnitude.

    Like the most recent joke says "when lost, bury a short piece of cat5, then ask the backhoe operator the way home".

    He will come and find the cat5, it would be a violation of Murphy's Law to do otherwise.

    --
    Cheers, Gene
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

    1. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      That's a very funny joke, Gene. My loins are laughing.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    2. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm somewhat in that business having had some cable dug up by backhoe operators. Given enough time, they will find it, guaranteed.

      Besides, somebody has to put a smile on folks faces. My turn tonight I guess.

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
      soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
      99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
      Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
      message by Gene Heskett are:
      Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.

    3. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      CAT-5 nothing, try being told by your upstream provider that the main fibre optic trunk lines from Toronto to your town got torn to shreds by a backhoe.

      Resplice fibre? Yes they did ... in less than 6 hours even.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    4. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      I wasn't being sarcastic, Gene. That was a really funny joke. It rings true in every sense.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    5. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was fucking stupid.

    6. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're wrong. It was a funny joke.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    7. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Their splicer must have needed re-calibration. When we finally managed to get a fibre to the cable headend to send our stations 2 signals on, he tried 4 fresh cuts, but the losses stayed in the 20db range, unusable. So they quit, and sent the splicer back for a re-cal. That took about a week, and when it came back the first splice it made in about 10 minutes was good, 1/2 db loss for a 39 kilometer run. Up on poles all the way, that was now 9 or 10 years ago. And of course lots better signal on the cable system coming back than any off-air pickup they'd used ever gave.

      Having 75+% of your audience on a cable signal sure takes the "get it back on the air at any cost" mentality away and we can spend the extra hour to do it right when the transmitter goes down.

      Up on poles takes the backhoe out of the picture, but not the drunk driver. ISTR we've had one outage due to that, and thats still better chances than if buried & every hoe operator in the county is looking for it IMO.

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
      soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

    8. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      To clarify: 6 hours of total downtime, from the backhoe doing its duty to figuring out thats where the loss of service was, to driving an hour to the site to splicing the fibre, to service being up and running again.

      Granted, an hour would've been nicer.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    9. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      No, thats not too bad. I think our drunk driver was more like 3-4 hours as they had to wait on the pole owner (the local electrickery folks) to put in a new pole before they could undo a bit of the service loop & splice it. In case you haven't noticed, long runs of fibre will have what looks like bicycle wheels used as forms so they can make a turn in mid-span and go back the other way for a few hundred feet, thereby giving the geography/road/pole run a chance to move, like for new road construction, without having to cut, insert more cable & splice twice to handle the longer path.

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
      soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

    10. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Humm, must be a hoe operator trying to defend his trade. Sorry, but the record tends to speak for itself. Not sure its all your fault though, I've seen hoes with a mind of their own about how deep to dig when the shop can't seem to understand that the spools and the bores in the control valves are indeed shot and need brand new ones to restore precision.

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
      soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

    11. Re:This just proves that old addage about backhoes by Merlisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In Telecom, we always say to bury the fiber near the power lines. The reason is that when backhoe operators are digging, the saying goes, "If fiber's under there, dig carefully. If power's under there, call before you dig."

      I can attest that it works!

      --
      Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld
  32. Nasty bug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean rat. That's the "in thing" these days. Bugs destroying hardware is so old sk00l!

  33. Re:Rats? Puerto Rico by ArmorFiend · · Score: 1

    We play them as rats, then you can make fun squeaking noises as they carry off your precious goods to the supply. We like it so much, that the squeaking noises are a mandatory house rule here.

  34. Not my problem! by Bananatree3 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I run all of my data over cat5 cables, and I can rely on them ALWAYS to keep the rats away.

  35. Had a bad feeling about this by quokkapox · · Score: 2, Funny

    I *knew* we shouldn't have used Room 101 for the server room!

    --
    it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
  36. Deratting by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    Does that mean that programmers in NZ will henceforth be Deratting software?

  37. Sure, blame it on the defenseless rats. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone knows it was a robotic sheep experiment gone awry.

  38. Re:i dont get enough e-mails by CyricZ · · Score: 1

    Is that the address of the girl who just dumped your sorry nerd ass, or are you a pedophile soliciting sexual deviancy from minors?

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  39. NZ has had some problems by SmartyFartBlast · · Score: 1

    If I recall correctly, Auckland has lost power once or twice and it just messed things up. Doing a little googling reveals this page : http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/misc/mercury .txt Damn what a mess! I would not wish blackouts and or rats on anyone. I feel sorry for anyone dependant on electricity, since the local company really screwed the pooch. That goes double for interweb service, since I know what it feels like to go without...it sucks bigtime. Hm, as for the rat population maybe they need to sell off some of those many millions of sheeps (40+ million, IIRC) and get some cats...a whole mess of cats. Rats are VERY destructive and can gnaw through most materials with ease. Another fun fact is that they can swim for 1/4 mile underwater (and fly outta your toilet and bite you on the ass...yuck!).

    1. Re:NZ has had some problems by AlanWay · · Score: 1

      Hm, as for the rat population maybe they need to sell off some of those many millions of sheeps (40+ million, IIRC) and get some cats

      Which would screw our native species even more.

      Introduced predators, especially cats and ferrets, have decimated out national icon the Kiwi (as in bird, not fruit) http://xenon.stanford.edu/~rsf/kiwi.html

      Not to mention the coolest insect, the weta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta An insect that can grow close to the size of a rat (not a freaking cool animation studio that had a little to do with the movie-isation of some Tolkein books!)

      As an island nation we have had our unique native fauna absolutely screwed over by introduced animals: rats, cats, ferrets, dogs etc. Our flora screwed by opossums, deer, goat(se), vegeterians, etc.

      The only winners are the sheep, who have moved to Aussy to look for boyfriends. ;-)

  40. NIMH by sremick · · Score: 3, Funny

    Damn... tapping into the farmer's electricity wasn't enough. Now those smart bastards want high-speed internet access.

    1. Re:NIMH by __aatgod8309 · · Score: 1

      Well, they've sure picked the wrong country for that...

    2. Re:NIMH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol :) That just made my day. Time to go get a new copy and reread it too.

  41. Re:Ratcock sausages? by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 0

    "Just out of curiosity, how big of a penis does that type of a rat have? I mean, you said the rat is delicious. I suppose you were talking about the body, but I'm asking about its penis. Could its penis be stuffed with its body meat to make a ratcock sausage?"

    That has got to be one of the strangest questions I've ever heard. Why are you interested in the penis of a rat?. Why would you even think about making a rat-penis-sausage?. Please tell me your some kind of herbivore-penile-scientist.

    --
    "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
  42. Ben by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ben, the two of us need look no more
    We both found what we were looking for
    With a friend to call my own
    I'll never be alone
    And you my friend will see
    You've got a friend in me
    (You've got a friend in me)

    Ben, you're always running here and there
    (Here and there)
    You feel you're not wanted anywhere
    (Anywhere)
    If you ever look behind
    And don't like what you find
    There's something you should know
    You've got a place to go
    (You've got a place to go)

    I used to say, "I" and "me"
    Now it's "us", now it's "we"
    (I used to say, "I" and "me")
    (Now it's "us", now it's "we")

    Ben, most people would turn you away
    I don't listen to a word they say
    They don't see you as I do
    I wish they would try to
    I'm sure they'd think again
    If they had a friend like Ben
    (A friend)
    Like Ben
    (Like Ben)
    Like Ben

    1. Re:Ben by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note for moderators: "I don't get it" == "Off-Topic" evaluates as false.

      Parent is quoting the lyrics to the theme song from the movie of the same name. The movie's title character is... wait for it... a rat.

      The reference is made even more timely given that the song was performed by Michael Jackson, who's been in the news quite a bit lately.

      Parent might or might not be be indulging in copyright infringement rather than "fair use", and might or might not be sufficiently entertaining to deserve a +1 Funny mod, but does not by any reasonable stretch of the imagination merit -1 Off-Topic.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Ben by Formula420 · · Score: 0

      Someone mod this man up! Rats fucking rule!!! For some real entertainment, look up the music video for the cover of this song that Crispin Glover did for the movie "Willard" what a crazy dude, I really hope he gets the role of the next joker.

    3. Re:Ben by DoTheRightThing · · Score: 1

      methinks my parent is my grandparent too!

    4. Re:Ben by Alsee · · Score: 1

      does not by any reasonable stretch of the imagination merit -1 Off-Topic

      By that logic no one could ever mod anything off-topic. There's always the possibility that it is on-topic in some way the moderator doesn't know about. The mod turned out to be wrong, but I'd hardly call it 'unreasonable beyond any stretch of the imagination', chuckle.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:Ben by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      > By that logic no one could ever mod anything
      > off-topic.

      I don't know about *that*... There are times when it's obvious someone doesn't understand an article, and is addressing the wrong issue.

      > ...I'd hardly call it 'unreasonable beyond any
      > stretch of the imagination'...

      Well... it was quite late in my TZ... perhaps I could be excused the borderline bombast. ;)

      In any case, the point I was trying to get across is that there is a difference between "I don't know that this applies" and "I know that this doesn't apply" and someone stepped on the wrong side of it.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  43. Re:Ratcock sausages? by CyricZ · · Score: 0

    Less commentary, more dimensions, please.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  44. Maybe this is animal that needs to be extinct by Enrique1218 · · Score: 1

    We should definately try these of the planet. I have too many bad run ins and they cost me a lot of money in damage.

    --
    You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
  45. The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by ikekrull · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear attack, but as implemented by the greedy idiots in control of Telecom and TelstraClear, the internet in New Zealand can't even withstand an assault by frickin rat and some clown with a power tool.

    Its really embarrassing, and sad, that these corporations' policies effectively deny the public in New Zealand a robust network infrastructure - Telecom and TelstraClear purposely depeered from various internet exchanges through which they could have easily redirected traffic during this outage, rendering it a non-event, because they can't stand the idea that people might run VOIP systems, cutting into their monopoly profits.

    Its just really pathetic that their action has resulted in the biggest network outage
    that I can remember, and instead of realising they probably should work with other network providers to ensure the internet in New Zealand is resistant to this type of 'attack' they just want to blame the power company.

    Telecom, you suck.

    --
    I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
    1. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear attack, but as implemented by the greedy idiots in control of Telecom and TelstraClear, the internet in New Zealand can't even withstand an assault by frickin rat and some clown with a power tool.

      No, it wasn't. TCP/IP was designed under a DARPA grant to provide a high availability robust network protocol that could route around missing nodes.

      The local communications network in New Zealand services approx 4 million people, in a land mass the approximate size and geography of Japan, with varied terrain and disperse population centres.

      The event (two simultaneous network outages in major trunks on seperate coasts) was unfortunate, but the restoration of service took only four hours, and the outage only affected the upper North Island (admittedly the majority of the population), not the entire country.

      I'll refrain from comment on rumour-mongering regarding the acutal reasons for de-peering.

    2. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slight bit of disinformation here - TelstraClear was the one which did the depeering, not Telecom. Reference here.

    3. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it wasn't. TCP/IP was designed under a DARPA grant to provide a high availability robust network protocol that could route around missing nodes.

      Gee why would DARPA spend taxpayer money on that? Hint: the D is for defense.

      You need to read "Where Wizards Stay Up Late", the DARPA guys admitted it was nukewar defense planning.

    4. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1

      TelstraClear was the one which did the depeering, not Telecom.

      They both have depeered, although they depeered at different times. Nowdays if I do a traceroute from my Woosh Wireless connection to either Telecom or TelstraClear it never goes through the Auckland Peering Exchange (APE), where previously it always went via the APE. Traceroutes to other ISPs still goes via the APE fortently.

      -James

    5. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What a troll. Please mod the parent post a troll.

      ...Telecom and TelstraClear purposely depeered from various internet exchanges through which they could have easily redirected traffic during this outage,...

      The ISPs Telecom and TelstraClear previously peered with all had their Auckland-Wellington routes on either Telecom or TelstraClear. No other ISPs, as far as I know, have their own cable linking Wellington and Auckland. So Even if Telecom was peered with other ISPs they would still have overloaded so much traffic onto TelstraClear's network that it would probally slow to a crawl. Therefore peering wouldn't be a great idea in this situation. Although I do agree that they should kept their peering agreement with the Auckland and Wellington peering exchanges.

      -James

    6. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by jasperbg · · Score: 1
      the outage only affected the upper North Island (admittedly the majority of the population), not the entire country.

      Bullshit. I live in Christchurch (mid-South island) and my polytech's Internet connection went down for four hours. My parents' ADSL connection in Nelson (top of the South island) also went down, and everyone I know with a Telecom mobile here in Christchurch or in Nelson had an outage of some description.

    7. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by AlanWay · · Score: 1

      Which was unfortunate. The DSL link was (probably) up, just they couln't authenticate with their ISP who was probably North of the breaks.

      It was an unfortunate Murphy. 2 cables on different side of the country being killed at the same time.

      I'm not a Telcom fan-boy, but cut them some slack. The chances of 2 seperate fibres being cut at the same time is slim, even giving the homing instinct of the average post hole borer.

    8. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? You sure about that? Got your facts in order? Double sure?

      I'm reading Where Wizards Stay Up Late right now, for the third or fourth time. No one from [D]ARPA is quoted "admitted it was nukewar defense planning". Ever.

      Paul Baran, the man who co-invented packet switching at RAND, was interested in building "survivable networks" which could be used for C&C in the ivent of a nuclear war. But his work was not the basis of the ARPANet. The 'net was built simply to link together the very expensive research machines across the US, many of which were hosting research projects directly funded through ARPA. It was an interesting experiment designed to save money.

      The original ARPANet, as designed and built, wasn't even fully redundent, let alone survivable. I suggest you pay a little more attention the next time you read something.

    9. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by jonbrewer · · Score: 2, Informative

      No other ISPs, as far as I know, have their own cable linking Wellington and Auckland.

      You've neglected to consider BCL, who have 4x 155mbps DMR up and down the two islands. That's easily enough capacity to handle all of NZ's Intraweb south of Auckland at this point in time. Since they're a State Owned Enterprise, they can't exactly tell Telecom to fuck off if Telecom comes to them asking for redundant capacity.

      Even if Telecom was peered with other ISPs they would still have overloaded so much traffic onto TelstraClear's network that it would probally slow to a crawl.

      You've also failed to consider the capacity of Telstra's network. Fibre is fibre, and when you have a pair of bundles of fibre running up and down the country, it's not terribly difficult to come up with more gigabits per second than an Advanced Network would know what to do with, let alone the pittance of commercial web traffic this country sees.

    10. Re:The 'Internet' no longer exists in New Zealand. by drew · · Score: 1

      The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear attack, but as implemented by the greedy idiots in control of Telecom and TelstraClear, the internet in New Zealand can't even withstand an assault by frickin rat and some clown with a power tool.


      the internet as a whole was designed to survive when any arbitrary node (or a number of arbitrary nodes) was disconnected. which it did just fine- the rest of the internet didn't even notice new zealand was missing unless they tried to contact a host located in new zealand. if you think this incident is peculiar to new zealand, think again. there was a time in relatively recent memory when a decent size chunk of the second largest city in the united states was offline for most of a day due to accidents involving large fiber optic cables. just because the internet as a whole is designed to work around missing nodes, doesn't mean it doesn't suck if you're on the part that gets disconnected. on the contrary, the internet was designed to accomodate for this siutation without slowing down or stopping the rest of the network.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
  46. Rats??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least it wasn't sheep

    1. Re:Rats??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flaming sheep are still better...

  47. availability and compensation by Rogue+Animal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fibre optic cables are relatively expensive, say $60k/km rural & rising to up to >$1m/km downtown, so beyond two diverse cables is usually justifiable only where the traffic is very large (hint- not NZ), or where geography favours it (think a mesh of cities).

    The availability with two cables can be 5 9s. Overall availability depends on how risk there is (most likely risk - construction near the cable e.g. new housing estates), and how fast the operations is fixing faults. Fixing a fault may take 3 - 12 hours, and it is when Field Ops gets a bit slack in fixing things that the risk rises dramatically. Theoretically this is very rare, but these double faults do happen (think Optus Melbourne - Sydney about 5 years ago - and periodically others).

    As for compensation. In general those who constructed other facilities have a responsibility to check for the presence of others external plant (gas, elec, fibre optic) - In OZ: Dial before you dig. If you don't do this, then you are liable - and be sued for at a minimum costs. If you have, and the records are off, then you are probably OK. So, in this case it may be that the electricity company or their contractor did not check for other services (or most likely checked, but stuffed up anyway!).

  48. Talk about your sore NZers! by TheHawke · · Score: 1

    Last year about this time over half of the Texas coastal bend lost service when a branch of the SS7 network got chopped. Cells, 'net backbones, CC validators, and paging services. Come to find out that a contractor screwed up on misjudging the lay of the "do not dig" marks laid out by MCI..

    Feh!

    The boss said "dig there".

    The foreman said "dig there"

    The backhoe driver dug there...

    Three hours later the 5oclock news came rolling around with the contractors mugs plastered on the screens with the reporters wailing about the fruits of their labors.

    Another three hours rolled past until the MCI crews managed to splice the cable back together and get things back on track.

    FYI, there was (and most likely will not be) no backup in place in the South Texas region for the SS7 network.

    --
    First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
  49. MOD PARENT FUNNY by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

    Notice he replaced overlords for "overloAds" :)

    +1, Original

  50. Eerr... by EvilCabbage · · Score: 4, Funny

    "They are also fat and delicious." The Maori people, or the rats?

    1. Re:Eerr... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      When Europeans arrived in New Zealand, they discovered that Maori were cannibals. They would carry out raiding parties on eachother's tribes and the captured were either enslaved or eaten.

      So, I guess you could say that the Maori obviously found eachother to be fat and delicious, in addition to the rat.

      (Another peculiar delicacy of the Maori people was (and still is) the droppings of a native bird. The bird droppings are sweet because it feeds off berries. You have to ask yourself: just how did they know to eat only those specific droppings? What other droppings did they try? And why, Oh God, did they try them in the first place???)

    2. Re:Eerr... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Maori are, as a general rule, hard bastards.

    3. Re:Eerr... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Agreed.

  51. Great. Another Efreekorner mocking others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You completely fucked your own ass-backwards country then had to flee from it as a result. The rest of the world was silly enough to give you a new place to pollute with your loathsomeness.

    And every Seth Effreeken "IT Expert" I ever met knows barely enough to start a game of Freecell, yet they still criticise those of us who have to clean up the messes they make with the systems they don't understand.

    Fuck off.

  52. Thats what they want you to think! by Dogmeat83 · · Score: 1

    Now I got it figured out. It's a money making machine with a one time investment. Perfect! The ACTUAL REAL plan: 1. Hire a bunch of rats to destroy the cables, and bring local internet down. 2. Pretend downtime didn't exist, and charge for it anyway. 3. Ignore customer complaints on the matter. 3. Post on slashdot saying the RIAA/MPAA did it. 4. Sue your local electrical company alleging lost profits. 5. Let the rats go unpunished, so they can do it again. 6. Profit!

  53. Rats! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Over the dishes!

    Please tell me what the ratties say!
    Please tell me what the ratties say!

    Rats...Over the dishes!

  54. Everytime a Kiwi emigrates to Australia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...it raises the IQ of both nations.

    1. Re:Everytime a Kiwi emigrates to Australia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the sheep in new zealand breathe a sigh of relief.

    2. Re:Everytime a Kiwi emigrates to Australia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise you've just said that Australia is getting all the sheep molesters, don't you?

      Guess they'll be welcoming the increasing numbers for their national pasttime.

  55. Re:One in a million? Hardly by rimu+guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One in a million? So telecom says. But you're talking about a loop going around the whole North Island. That's a lot of cable. At any point in the loop it is subject to being dug up, eaten by rats, or affected by an equipment malfunction. The odds of any of those are, what?, once every 30 days. You probably never notice any single outage because of the redundancy. But the odds of a dual failure, hence are 1/30days*1/30=1/900days=1/2.4 years. Hardly one in a million. For it to be that there would be a fault only once every thousand days. And that is not the telecom I know and, well, have to use.

    --
    Working to provide reliable VPS hosting

  56. Happened at my parents house too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Years ago, my parents called me because the power to half of their house went dead.

    I checked the breaker and it was fine, and power was also leaving it.

    So I started tracing the wiring from the Garage back the the Main circuit Panel on the other side of the house.

    Up into the attic I went, still finding no power in the 08 gauge feeder cable, until I got to the outside wall just above the mains panel.

    At this point I was truly surprised, because somewhere inside that 36 inches of wall, there just had to be a break in the wire!

    The next part was really FUN , since I had to use a sledge hammer to break open the stucco wall, outside and above the mains panel to see what was going wrong.

    When I discovered the cause, I was totally shocked, a rat had chewed through the hot 08 gauge wire of the 3 wire cable!

    I could see the teeth marks on the wire, and tiny copper chips laying below it on the fire block in the wall.

    The rat didn't get electrocuted because it never touched the other conductors, which would have killed it instantly.

    It's almost too weird for words, but I saved a 12 inch piece of cable where the break was to show to my clients (electrical contractor).

  57. I'm a New Zealander, and it was not rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ok, in the last fortnight they've said problems were caused lightning strikes, rats knawing through cables, and trees falling on "infrastructure".

    Gee... they sure have been unlucky in the last two weeks!

    If they can attribute an error to an act of god people will be more forgiving.

    They're abusing this and lying. Rats did not knaw through a fucking fibre optic cable.

    1. Re:I'm a New Zealander, and it was not rats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, rats do gnaw through F.O. cables, or at least through the PVC conduit holding them. The entrenched cables are not wrapped in steel like the undersea cables and damage easier than you might think.

    2. Re:I'm a New Zealander, and it was not rats by Trius · · Score: 0

      When I called the helpdesk the guy told me someone had been digging in the wrong place and cut through both of the fibre optic cables. I thought that sounded a bit weird... wouldn't the cables be laid seperately? And now it's rats? Damned lying scumbags Telecom.

      --
      It's hard to strive for greatness when surrounded by the mediocre.
  58. Solutions not litigation by Student+Activist · · Score: 1

    Yet instead of looking at ways to prevent this occurence in the future, they turn to litigation, working for their own material gain as opposed to the public welfare.

    Yes, the unnamed power company should discuss the issue with the pole-digger, but I'm sure the employee didn't maliciously cause the problem.

    Isn't this somewhat similar to a fiber line being cut by a farmer, here in the states, awhile back? Perhaps making it so one single individual does not have the access to disrupt services on such a large scale would be a better solution.

  59. And they shoudl be slapped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's only a fluke because the electricity company did not live upto their bargain. What if you have a contract to keep backup tapes. Suddenly they come to your door for the tapes, and you say. "Hey, just because your hardrive was eaten by a moose, does not mean you should take it out on me. G

  60. Neat.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...how traffic on ports other than 80 was still able to get through.

    Shame uncle Tim didn't pick a more robust port.

    1. Re:Neat.... by johnw · · Score: 1

      Where does it say that only Web traffic was affected?

      John

  61. The electric worker *tried* to steal the cable by guardiangod · · Score: 1

    Ok first thing first

    1. The accident(or incident) happened at Monday, and /. , being famous as it is, post the "News" on Friday. Good job, even the Inquirer beat you.

    2. That being said, here is a much more detail account of the event.

    Rat blamed for latest Telecom blackout

    untitled image

    21.06.05

    By Bernard Orsman and Gareth Vaughan

    A rat is suspected as being one of two culprits who paralysed the country's telecoms network yesterday, closing the Stock Exchange and stopping shoppers using Eftpos machines.

    The second was a Powerco contractor who "nicked" a fibre optic cable near Waverley in South Taranaki while drilling a hole to replace a power pole at 10.40am.
    The "one in a million" coincidence of damage to two fibre optic cables affected more than 100,000 Telecom customers from 10.48am until 3.18pm.

    The greatest disruption was in Wellington and Taranaki. Services were also lost in Auckland, Palmerston North and in the South Island.

    Trading on the Stock Exchange was brought to a halt from 11.01am until 4pm. The exchange stayed open for an extra 30 minutes until 5.30pm.

    Eftpos disruption hurt shoppers and retailers. The online auction site TradeMe reported a significant reduction in traffic between 11am and 3pm.

    Air travellers experienced delays of 25 minutes or more when the loss of internet and email forced Air NZ to manually check-in passengers.

    Telecom spokesman John Goulter said it was possible a rat was the cause of the broken fibre optic cable on a railway bridge, about 5km north of Upper Hutt. Rodent damage was a problem inside the 10cm steel ducts that carry fibre optic cables, he said.

    "We haven't ruled it [a rat] out."

    Another possible cause was the cable coming adrift and being carried away in the river.

    Mr Goulter said the odds of the two main fibre optic cables running up the west and east sides of the North Island failing at the same time were about one in a million.

    Telecommunications Users Association chief executive Ernie Newman said Telecom rated well for network and service reliability and he did not see it as a sign of a trend.

    However, brokers were annoyed, especially as it was the second Telecom fault in a week to halt trading.

    One broker said stoppages added to uncertainty for the market and investors "hate uncertainty".

    Stock Exchange spokeswoman Rowan MacRae would not be drawn into detail about compensation.

    "Our key thing has been to focus on getting the market back up and running as quick as we can and to let international markets know what has happened here today. We will worry about the other issues later."

    Retailers Association Auckland regional manager Russell Sinclair said given that many people no longer carried cash, "It certainly bites" when Eftpos went down.

    Communications Minister David Cunliffe said "getting two accidents of this type at the same time is a freak occurrence".

    Last week about 2000 Telecom customers were affected when a contractor accidentally cut a cable between Waihi and Whangamata. The eastern side of the Coromandel Peninsula and Great Barrier Island were affected.


    Wow, what a dumbass for stealing "a shiny cable" that is under the ground. Wouldn't he , you know, know that the line might be there for a reason?

    1. Re:The electric worker *tried* to steal the cable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if you're trying to be funny or not, but to 'nick' something can also (and indeed, usually) refer to *cutting* something. Yes, it's slang for stealing, but it's also slang for arresting or imprisoning and I don't really think the article was alluding to either.

  62. yeah its tough being a tight arsed monopoly by webname · · Score: 2, Funny

    bloody cabling is so crappy here i cant get dsl
    serves em right
    go rats- umm thats the furry ones i mean not the 2 legged ones :)

  63. The French by Aussie · · Score: 3, Funny

    It was French rats, with scuba gear.

    1. Re:The French by NumberGod · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Again !

      I see it's almost 20 years since the french state terrorists sunk the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour.

      There's a wee doco on the telly about it this weekend I believe.

    2. Re:The French by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! Point out the obvious joke, why don't you.

    3. Re:The French by DemingBuiltMyHotRod · · Score: 1
      "It was French rats"

      -1 Redundant

    4. Re:The French by m50d · · Score: 1

      In a few days you'll have Americans saying it was the telecom company who broke the rats' cable

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:The French by dcam · · Score: 1

      I suggest you read your sibling post.

      French intelligence agents sunk the Rainbow Warrior (killing one person IIRC) in Auckland harbour.

      This is not equivalent to Freedom Fries. This was state sanctioned murder. I have book that describes the forensic evidence that describes the case against the French agents.

      --
      meh
    6. Re:The French by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean Freedom Rats?

    7. Re:The French by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      It was more like state sanctioned terrorism against Green Peace. The murder was just an unfortunate side-effect.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  64. Re:One in a million? Hardly by sn00ker · · Score: 1

    Remember their "Five nines of reliability on our core network" ads?
    Well, someone did the maths, and a four-hour outage means they're not due to have a core network failure for over another half century. Somehow I can't quite see it.

    --
    "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
  65. /. mislead my half absent mind... by layer3switch · · Score: 1

    of course, without reading the article, what do i do? i've visited securityfocus and symantec to dig out info on worm/virus named "rat"...

    please, someone stick a fork in my ass, 'cuz i think, i'm done.

    --
    "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
  66. Re:PARENT IS A TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check his other posts -- specifically the ones in which he asks about "ratcock sausages".

  67. Difficult to justify with a low population base by MarkTina · · Score: 1

    More redundancy would be nice, but it's difficult to justify when there are only 4million people total in the whole country (that might even include the bods overseas). Big chunks of the country are devoid of people so justifying the cost of running multiple levels of redundacy is hard ... and we don't want to pay even more for our phone subscription ... bad enough as it is.

  68. This shows that 'competative commerce' is a ... by chris_sawtell · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... total and absolute write off, particularly for small countries.

    What all the published articles fail to mention is that there is a third fibre running from one end of the country to the other. It is owned by Telstra, the competition. It would not be too much of an exaggeration to say that Telstra and Telecom have such a level of psychotic hatred for one another, that they cannot talk to each other except in a Court room. Thus the very idea of setting up the routers so that all three of the fibres are shared is such an anathema that it just won't happen without Government regulation and intervention. Needless to say the Government is essentially a bunch of ignorent wimps who can no more understand the technicalities of the situation than fly. So it won't happen and we will have to suffer the consequencies of serious telecom infrastructure failure from time to time.

    It's time for the little peoples of the world to take back ownership of their infrastructures by whatever means necessary. Fighting talk may be, but many of us in the rest of the world are sick of being fleeced by the avaricious in the powerful countries. Oh shit! - I forgot - big countries make up excuses to invade little ones so they can steal their natural resources.

  69. Better than the by fopa · · Score: 1

    damn mynoch ... always munchin on the power cables.

  70. Finally... by DinX · · Score: 0

    my masterplan is on it's way to completion. First New Zealand. Then Asia. Finally ... THE WORLD ! Muahahahaha....

  71. Too much of the net is in the hands of big telcos by jonwil · · Score: 1

    This leads to problems where even though there is multiple physical lines from A to B (sometimes the backups go via C or D) that still doesnt gaurantee that things will be ok in the advent of a line dropout because the big telcos all over the world are greedy and will not implement the necessary links and setup to enable all these networks to talk to each other and use each other as a backup when needed.

  72. NZ lost power to largest city for 5 weeks in 1998 by evilandi · · Score: 2, Informative
    This sounds very familiar to when in 1998, all four major mains electricity power trunk cables failed to their major city, Auckland, for five weeks.

    There seems to be something about the New Zealand psyche that just doesn't understand the concept of separate routing and protection of cables.

    --
    Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
  73. Re:NZ lost power to largest city for 5 weeks in 19 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    There seems to be something about the New Zealand psyche that just doesn't understand the concept of separate routing and protection of cables.


    Yes. The entire New Zealand psyche, I'm sure. Way to over-generalise.
  74. Happened before in the US by David+Off · · Score: 1

    In the mid-90s - okay most of your are too young, there was some major disruption of the Internet when rats chewed through a major fibre route linking Mae East with Mae West run by MCI.

    The Internet can route around such outages, but sometimes the traffic moves too slowly for many services to continue working effectively.

    1. Re:Happened before in the US by BurntNickel · · Score: 1

      Most of us were too young in the mid-90s? I think I'm too old for this crowd.

      BTW - When's Matlock on?

      --
      And the knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them...
  75. Of Course this brings the question by hubs99 · · Score: 1

    Since we have "bugs in our code" will people start saying I have "rats in my connection"?

  76. Re:NZ lost power to largest city for 5 weeks in 19 by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 1

    There seems to be something about the New Zealand psyche that just doesn't understand the concept of separate routing and protection of cables.

    Oh we understand all right, it's just that the concept of "She'll be right, mate" carries more weight. If it's not likely to fail, how are we going to exercise our God-given right to repair it using nothing but twine and 8-guage fencing wire?

    --
    This is where the serious fun begins.
  77. Note to Dupe Haters by indifferent+children · · Score: 1

    When next week's headline is: 'Bats Cripple Wireless Web Access', that is not a dupe. Different rodent, different medium.

    --
    Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    1. Re:Note to Dupe Haters by Formula420 · · Score: 0

      Actually, bats are not rodents, they are closer to humans than rats and other rodents.

    2. Re:Note to Dupe Haters by indifferent+children · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I didn't know that.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
  78. Power outages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news, NZ police investigating widespread power outages have announced that saboteurs may be to blame. Apparently they found traces of Horlicks in the donkey.

  79. Failover by mrogers · · Score: 1

    L u c k i l y , t h e b a c k u p s a t e l l i t e l i n k k i c k e d i n a u t o m a t i c a l l y . T h e l a t e n c y ' s n o t g r e a t b u t a t l e a s t i t k e e p s m e o f f C o u n t e r s t r i k e .

  80. Armed Response by Halo- · · Score: 1

    I went to college with a guy who later went to work for one of the major backbone providers in the US. He claims that their standard response included having an armed "entry team" clear the area before the techs could get in.
    He had great stories about how one guy on the team didn't have his carry permit yet, and thus was given a huge can of pepper spray which he brandished like it was the only thing standing between him and impending doom.
    My friend did a great job described how this "entry team" would kick in the door to some wiring vault somewhere, guns drawn, flashlights out, like some nerdy SWAT team, even though the "enemy" was almost always a rat or squirrel staring back at them.
    I have no idea if any of this is true, but it made a great story. Especially the details about how the armed guys always told the pepper-spray guy that one day, they were going to come up against some knife-wielding anarchist, who would gleefully cry "Ah-ha! Pepper-boy takes the point again!" as he fell upon them. (Best said in a corny fake French accent)

  81. now rats are terrorists too by johnrpenner · · Score: 1


    good thing this didn't happen in america --
    where rats are now terrorists too... ;->

  82. deraadt? Theo? by muonzoo · · Score: 1

    Theo? I didn't know Theo was in New Zealand.

  83. "Concerted Attack by Rodentia" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    was an actual name of a "safety case" when designing a new Air Traffic Control facility.

    "Cattle in the Lobby" was another fun one.

  84. OK, enuf NZ bashing. Bad design happens to all by cbelt3 · · Score: 1

    C'mon- how about the great NorthEast US blackout ? It didn't happen in the middle ages, guys.
    We have no right to act superior.
    Infrastructure systems like power, telcom, water, etc. are all built on the backs of earlier systems. I mean, some water systems in EU still use elements of acqueducts that the Romans laid.
    Like a chain, the infrastructures are as strong as the weakest link. Netting and redundancy are all very nice, but most governments don't have the funds to do it. Would you be willing to pay 90% taxes so that your local govt could tear out all your old wires, pipes, etc. and put in shining new triple redundant systems ?
    No. So we plan for the occasional outage, and move on.

  85. Re:Cost of Redundancy. by Whatchamacallit · · Score: 1

    Figuring the cost of redundancy and trying to save money by deciding not to have a redundant backup is the key. The trouble begins when the cost is explained to management and they freak and decide it's too expensive. Then when the thing that almost never happens, happens (Mr. Murphy's Law) the cost of the downtime is usually much higher.

    Take for example a network SAN used to store 30+ Unix servers data. Talking about web servers and various DB's. Sure the SAN is redundant but the network switch leading to the SAN was not. i.e. instead of two switches in a failover configuration there was only one. That switch went berserk and everything went down. We're talking about all of the public side mission critical websites along with the databases and several Intranet systems that were also mission critical. The outage lasted most of the day while we waited on Cisco to rush a replacement switch driven by a technician from the next state over.

    In the meantime, customers could not view their valuable data, third party business users could not access the data. Internal workflow was impacted. I suspect it cost a few million all said and done. All for the cost of an extra Cisco Fiber Channel switch which would have cost an additional $25,000.00. Sure hindsight is always 20/20. The risk was not properly calculated...

    Now scale this up to what New Zealand went through, the outage seriously impacted the economy! Sure it would have cost millions more to have extra redundancies but then again, the outage caused by rats chewing through some cables wouldn't have brought the country to a halt either!

  86. This is just bad design... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having worked in telecom during the tech boom, a lot of conduit is sold with external conductors. You pass a low voltage on the outside of the conduit - it's called rodent protection. Works like a charm.

    This is the first I've heard of rodents actually chewing through a major cable though. I thought rodent protection has very common for major conduits.

  87. i'm actually surprised by drunken+dash · · Score: 1

    I'm actually surprised they didn't try to take legal action against the rats...

    --
    Enjoy an e-piphany
  88. rats ey? by ghee22 · · Score: 1

    Looks like Douglas Adams was right on the money!

    --
    "Persistence is annoying success." - ghee22 11:28:1999 - 10:53:PM
  89. 128k "broadband" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eircome the former monopoly and national telecom company in Ireland aslo advertised ISDN as "broadband". They should have been taken to court for false advertising.

  90. Mod up parent - interesting read by mlorentz · · Score: 1

    This story is very interesting. I didn't think in this "modern day world" it was possible for something like this to happen. It really scares me since in the US it seems like the power grid gets more and more overloaded all the time.

    1. Re:Mod up parent - interesting read by evilandi · · Score: 1

      One of the things that us Brits find odd is that a lot of countries have a hierarchical approach to power grids, whereby there are a small number of upstream power sources which supply a specific number of downstream locations.

      It seems that every time I visit the USA there are local power cuts on the news (although to be fair I did visit Boston during the great blizzard in January, and New York during last week's heatwave).

      In the UK we have a more "networked" version of the grid where power can flow from pretty much any source to pretty much any location, rather than just upstream/downstream. Although it is possible for all lines into a location to fail, this is rare. Most UK power problems are caused by safety systems cutting in and isolating areas of suspected fault, rather than supply problems.

      Of course our island is only 700 miles long which makes planning a grid a heck of a lot easier.

      We're currently having a debate about re-introducing nuclear power, since we moved to gas instead of coal and oil. Recently we started importing a lot of gas from Eastern countries which we're worried aren't very stable.

      --
      Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
  91. Remember! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CALL BEFORE YOU DIG!!

  92. Re:Cost of Redundancy. by ibennetch · · Score: 1

    If I may, and I'm just thinking out loud here, I suspect the difference is that the network switch you refer to was owned by the same company that lost the few million dollars, so the $25,000 investment may have been worth it because a one time cost $25,000 is much better than the at least one-time cost of a new switch ($25,000) plus the service/support charge to have a tech drive from another state plus the lost revenue ($1,000,000). The losses greatly exceeded the amount of money needed to provide a backup.

    On the other hand, the New Zealand telco isn't directly out of all the money that was lost in failed business transactions. They're pretty much out the money required to repair the lines. They didn't directly loose millions (billions?) of dollars, they just had their link go down and had to restore it. So investing however much money in additional lines and hardware may not make financial sense to them. Since they didn't loose much money, the losses did not exceed the amount of money redundancy would cost.

    Sure it's dumb, but who'd expect anything else?

  93. Remember the Auckland Power Outage by csb · · Score: 1

    Don't forget 1998 -- there was a major, prolonged power outage in Auckland central city, that went on for weeks: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/misc/mercury .txt

    --
    We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone. -management
  94. Method and appratus for controling rats by hadaso · · Score: 1

    You don't expect me to write the idea here, do you? Does NZ have patents on "methods"?

    I'll jurt give you a hint: it's biological, it has three letters and it rhymes with "rat"...

  95. For once it is good to be in the south island by Willuknight · · Score: 1

    Well i moved away from auckland last year, to the lower part of south island, and this didn't affect my internet access at all :) And to everyone out there from other countries, telecom is evil evil evil... Most of us have datacaps of 10gb, if you download more then this you either get charged extra, or your speed gets cut to dial up speed (5kb\s or 10kb\s). The most common speed is 256K, which costs around $50 a month. 1mb plans are about $90-100 a month, most with the same limited cap of only 10gb ! Oh, and you have to pay a $100 switching fee to change to a different ISP, a $100 connection fee to get connected in the first place, and $40 for a phoneline from the evil that is telecom. prices = NZ$

    --
    Do not anger the Karma Whores, for they don't bathe often, and might decide to come visit you in person. -Ryan Amos
  96. Re:NZ lost power to largest city for 5 weeks in 19 by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
    This sounds very familiar to when in 1998, all four major mains electricity power trunk cables failed to their major city, Auckland, for five weeks.
    It may sound superficially similar but it's really not. The power failure was caused by obsolete infrastructure. One cable failed due to age and the rest then overloaded and also failed. This communications dual failure is a different thing entirely, just bad luck more than anything.

    It's also important to realise (with the power failure) that it only affected the inner city, not the entire metropolitan area. A number of city blocks, not a general blackout of an entire city.

    There seems to be something about the New Zealand psyche that just doesn't understand the concept of separate routing and protection of cables.
    Nice generalisation, but no. What there is in NZ is a willingness by utility companies to save money any way they can (at least since they were all privatised), whether that means fewer redundancies or cutting back on infrastructure upgrades. And I really doubt that situation is any different anywhere else in the world.