City of Vienna Chooses Linux

Bill Kendrick writes "Back in January, ZDNet reported that the city of Vienna, Austria was looking to move at least a portion of its desktops to Linux. Well, it looks like it happened (in German; use the fish). Their official distro is based on Debian with KDE, and is called WEINUX." Update: 07/06 12:49 GMT by T : Several readers wrote to correct the spelling here: the correct name of the distro is "WIENUX."

Comments

das ist schön...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gratuliere !

Gawd

[Craig Davison]

Buncha Wieners.

Re:Gawd

[johannesprix]

Exactly. And it's "Wienux" not "Weinux", though Weinux might be better: It's a combination of Wine (in German: Wein) and Linux, instead of a combination of Vienna (in German: Wien) and Linux.

Re:Gawd

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anybody tell me where Vienna is? Must book a fight ticket...

Steve B.

Re:Gawd

[larkost]

The first time I was in Vienna (named Wien in German) I arrived just in time for Wienerfest. It took me two days to finally realize it was not about sausage. My German has improved since then.

Re:Gawd

[meadowsp]

Hey Steve B, They have this thing called the internet now where you can look stuff up for yourself.

I hear there's a "web-site" called google that might help you.

Re:Gawd

[1110110001]

Maybe you'd like to see a map of Österreich/Austria in Wikipedia and a map or europe with Austria where you can find Wien/Vienna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria

The Rathaus, where most Linux installations will run is located in the first district and can be reached with U2, 1, 2 or D. To get in the city from the vienna international airport (which is in Schwechat) you could take the new train called CAT. Enjoy your stay =)

b4n

PS: Mind the kangarous - no just joking - they are in Australia and not Austria.

All right

[aixou]

The Linux katamari picked up another city. A few more and we'll be able to level up!

Re:All right

[eobanb]

In case anyone doesn't get this joke, it's in reference to a Japanese video game called Katamari Damacy (Damachii) with a cult following. It involves rolling a small sticky ball around through towns, cities, and the countryside that picks up objects (starting with small objects, like thumbtacks); as the ball grows bigger, the ball is able to obtain larger objects, like cars, and so on, eventually being able to pick up entire large pieces of the landscape. This is actually a great analogy to the growing popularity of Linux, I think. As the marketshare and mindshare of OSS grows, so do its chances of scoring a big customer, like municipal Vienna. Hobbyists are the paperclips, and the cities are, well, the cities. I applaud both OSS developers and Vienna for making this happen.

Re:All right

[Lars T.]

This is actually a great analogy to the growing popularity of Linux, I think.

Unless you are an early Linux adopter, and have just been compared to thumbtacks.

Re:All right

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds more like a Trapper Keeper

Re:All right

[Phu5ion]

*snip* It involves rolling a small sticky ball around through towns, cities, and the countryside that picks up objects (starting with small objects, like thumbtacks); as the ball grows bigger, the ball is able to obtain larger objects, like cars, and so on, eventually being able to pick up entire large pieces of the landscape. *snip*

Don't forget you can roll up the Thunder God. Katamari is awesome, I mean you can roll up the Thunder God!

Re:All right

[identity0]

Hahahaha...

I'm imagining Bill Gates at his million-dollar home, going out in his bathrobe to get the paper. He looks up from the door, and sees a giant blob of gnus, penguins, old motherboards, and cabling that towers over him rolling his way.

His lat words will be, "What... the... HELL?!?!"

The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[quigonn]

It is called "WIENUX", not "WEINUX", as the city of Vienna is called "Wien" in German, not "Wein" (which means wine in German, and has nothing to do with Vienna).

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

The post was written while taking 2 bottles of Wein, not Wien, i guess thats why ;-)

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[wertarbyte]

[...] not "Wein" (which means wine in German, and has nothing to do with Vienna).

It also means "cry" (as an imperative), which is something some austrian microsoft minions might do now

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[CdBee]

Slashdot ought to call it Viennux then.
I wonder why it is that most French cities have their original names in English but so many German/Austrian cities (Vienna, Munich/Munchen, Koln/Cologne, etc) do not..?

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the english names are the old/middle- german names, as the English-source-race Angles and Saxons left what is now Germany a long time ago, whereas the English-source-race Normans came to england from what is now France much later. Like still calling "New York" "New Amsterdam".

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Zog The Undeniable]

I don't know. The good people of Austria - one of my favourite places - certainly drink a lot. It's legal to drink at the age of 16 [1], and you should see the amount of lager those oompah bands put away during a concert (basically each musician has a big glass under his chair and swigs half of it after each song; waitresses with big jugs (oo-er) come round and refill them at regular intervals.

[1] in the UK, amusingly, the legal drinking age is *5* if at home with a parent/guardian present. But then we exported all the Puritans to the US ;-)

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Sique]

It's not only that, it's also connected to the fact, that French is a roman language, related to the Latin, which in the middle age was the language of choice for international relations, where German is... hum... a germanic language ;)

So English often has a romanized version of the german name for german towns, while for french towns the name is already roman, thus no change.
An example would be Muenchen -> Munich.

A second factor is that the west and south german towns often have roman roots and were founded by roman soldiers as frontier towns and castles to defend the Limes (the roman border) against the Germans. Those towns have a 2000 year old latin name, which is still reflected in English, but the german name was heavily changed due to bad spelling and pronounciation by the inhabitants.

Examples for the later:
Koeln, latin name Colonia Agrippina -> Cologne.
Wien, latin name Vindobona -> Vienna
Trier, latin name Augusta Treverorum (this one is Trier in English too ;) )

For north and east german towns the english name often is the german one, because those towns were founded much later and started out either with a german name anyway (Hamburg, Bremen...) or have a name that is derived from the old slawic name (Berlin [this one is still slawic], Drezdany -> Dresden, Lipa -> Leipzig, Kamenice -> Chemnitz), where only the german name survived.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[ammoQ]

While it's legal to drink in the public at the age of 16, many kids drink before that, let's say at the age of 12, and nobody cares.

Greetings from Vienna

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Fwee Wodewick! Fwee Wienux!

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for that information. I found it fascinating and informative (unlike one other poster)

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[St. Arbirix]

I guess we know which side of the "linux" pronounciation debate they're on.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

It is supposed that the latin "Vindobona" is based on the celtic "Wenia" (meaning rivulet), who where the inhabitants before the Romans came.
But it seems that nobody in the area agrees on a common place name for the same thing: http://www.gemi.at/Ortstafeln/WienUrsprung.htm (sorry, German), so Vienna=Viden (czech)=Pecs (hungarian)=Dunaj (slowenian).

Just for completeness, shouldn't it be called "KWIENUX"?

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[oever]

Vienna (Wien) was originally a Roman settlement called Vindobona which is latin for 'good wine'.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[spikedvodka]

I don't know. The good people of Austria - one of my favourite places - certainly drink a lot. It's legal to drink at the age of 16

True for the most part... but that's not the whole story. The drinking age isn't a fixed age
it's 14 for beer and wine, if it is being purchased for you by an adult
it's 16 for beer and wine if you are purchasing it yourself, or for "hard" liquior if it is purchased for you by an adult
it's 18 for all forms if you're purchasing it yourself except as noted above.

That being said... if you can reach the bar to put down the money, they'll mostly serve you.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[AndrewHowe]

Vienna is Bécs to Hungarians, as it says in the page you link to. Pécs is in the south of Hungary, about 50km northeast of where Hungary, Croatia and Serbia meet.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[larkost]

Oddly, then the drinking age is birth in Wisconsin. With the presence (and consent) of a parent you are allowed to drink at any age in a bar. This is a seldom used law, and not everyone knows about it.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops, northwest I meant to say. It's actually like west by northwest or something. Oh ok 46deg05'N 18deg14'E

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

In The Netherlands, there is no legal drinking limit. It is, however, illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under 16 years of age, although this law is mostly ignored.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[fimbulvetr]

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/c onlaw/southdak.html

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[agraupe]

Same in Canada, in fact, I believe that any age of child can drink with either:

1) The parents permission, at home.

or

2) The prescription of a doctor (I've actually heard stories where this has happened).

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[akhomerun]

in greece, even if there is a drinking age, it's totally ignored. i don't think they have one.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Rome was just the last big empire, there are a lot of cities older than Rome, in a majority of cases romans build his 'new' cities upon older villages and imposed his nomenclator. The fact is that in europe/mediterranee if a city/town/village has roman 'origins', then it probably is much older than that.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Sique]

This might be true for the mediterranean, but not for Germany. For Colonia Agrippina and Augusta Treverorum we even know the exact dates for the foundation. Especially if a town had 'colonia' in its name you can be pretty sure that it was founded by the Romans on empty space, because then we know that the Romans called settlers (colonists) to build the town from nothing. Often the colonists were retiring soldiers of the Roman army.
The Germans 2000 years ago weren't big in town founding. They had villages with palisade walls for defence, but those were often burnt down (either by accident or by neighbouring tribes out for booty) and easily rebuilt. Many of the Germans tribes were wandering around anyway. The Cimbri and teutons of 102 BC, who ran around marauding Gaul (France) and Northern Italy for instance never had any kind of town or village, but they had waggons like the early U.S. settlers which formed a castle during the night and were moving during the days.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[jc42]

It is called "WIENUX", not "WEINUX", ...

They're missing some good wordplay here. If they package the WIENUX distro together with WINE, to run Windows apps, the resulting package should obviously be called WEINUX.

There's gotta be a bunch more good English/Deutsch puns in there ...

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[xiang shui]

I call bullshit...

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[k98sven]

Trier, latin name Augusta Treverorum (this one is Trier in English too ;) )

Actually, "Treves" is used in English as well.

What is really interesting is looking at old maps. You can usually find all kinds of variants. Usually they're not even self-consistent. E.g I looked at an english map of central Europe where Belgrade was "Belgrade" (anglified slavic name), but Novi Sad was "Neusatz" (german name), and several of the surrounding towns had Hungarian or Slavic names or Germanified versions, or even anglified versions of the germanified versions.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[esad]

Where liquor can be sold and consumed in public and who it can be sold to is a provincial matter. Federal laws deal with excise taxes, etc. Although you can be charged with "drunk in public" or various other liquor laws "in public", there are no laws regulating the consumption of liquor in the privacy of your home. And physicians can, and do, prescribe liquor, although rarely to children.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[fermion]

One of the interesting cases of drinking law is the US bible belt where rabid fundementalism collides with rabid individualism. Here in Texas it is illegal to from a minor to drink alcohol, but it is defensable to do so in front a parent. That is, one can arrest a minor for drinking, but he or she will probably get off if the parent was around and says it is ok. There is no minimum age. Of couse, our complex child abuse laws can be enacted as needed. Therefore many started drinking at very early ages, and avoided the embarrassment of learning to drink in college.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Sique]

This is, because Beograd (today's name) was called 'Belgrad' also in German (there could have been another german name, maybe it was Weissenburg, german translation for Belgrad = white castle or white town, for a short time.) Novi Sad in fact was founded by Austrians, so in the beginning it had the austrian-german name Neusatz.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Knuckles]

Having Vienna on the /. front page is hilarious. As a former inhabitant of the world capital of alcoholism (my guess) I find this sentence especially funny: (wein) means wine in German, and has nothing to do with Vienna

The health report 2000 of the city of Vienna, and the report of the World Wine Congress in Vienna might correct you in these mistaken views :)

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I grew up in Wisconsin. I was surprised when I went to other states when I was older and this was not the case.

Are we just alcoholics, or what?

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[deetsay]

It is called "WIENUX", not "WEINUX"

Well that's just wierd spelling.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

True, those were wandering people, but still romans (and older cultures) choose settlement locations on or near well know places, they used the local knowledge of the land.
Not sure about specific cases of collonies in germany, but it would not be strange to find out that prior to the collony, there was river crossing points, or sanctuary places.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Sique]

Yes, there were. If you look for instance around Frankfurt am Main, you have an average distance between two old celtic or germanic funeral places of less than a mile. Of course every roman settlement there was somehow founded on old celtic and germanic soil. But this makes it impossible to determine if exactly this or another funeral place was the place of choice for the romans.
No, the romans founded their towns and castles purely based on strategic and political considerations: Protecting this river crossing, having a view in that valley, having those holy places as road axis for the town. The ancient roman settlement of Augusta Raurica, today's Kaiseraugst/Switzerland for instance had its roads and town gates oriented to three holy mountains in the surroundings. Of course this place was already settled by celts. But they lost the battle, the Romans plained the place, and they started anew with a completely new designed city map.

Re:The distribution is called "WIENUX"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, romans are commonly viewed today as the start of 'modern' civilization, but that's only a mirage of our current cultural fashion, they were deeply ingrained in ancient traditions, let's not forget that after the senatorial phase they fall in a theocratic system were emperors were considered goods, updating a millenary and worl-wide tradition.
Maybe the succes of roman empire was just to exist in a crucial changing momemt as Virgili glossed, but i always feel that it's a mistake to ignore the roots and surroundings of roman empire (greek, egpyt, babiloean, indus, celtic, arian, etc, etc, etc), after all wasn't the founders of Rome the survivors of Troi?
Great thing history!

Ambitious targets

[Mattygfunk1]

It is up to the individual workers to choose if they prefer a KDE Desktop or a Microsoft based system. The officials expect that about 4,800 machines can run KDE in the short term.

That's a very ambitious target if they are only offering it, not saying "you will use this".

__
Funny Adult Videos and Pictures

Re:Ambitious targets

[Freaky Spook]

I agree, I don't see why they wont migrate acrosst to it, the basic user only needs email, internet & office products which all can be operated easily from KDE, they don't really need to know powerful desktop functions.

They should aim to make Linux the standard SOE & using Microsoft products to support users who require more specialised programs.

PD in basic linux isn't hard especially with KDE.

Re:Ambitious targets

[drsmithy]

They should aim to make Linux the standard SOE & using Microsoft products to support users who require more specialised programs.

Amazing how quick the battlecry goes from "users should have choice" to "users should use linux"...

Re:Ambitious targets

[g4LastingNFree]

Also from the article:

..confident that the voluntary migration to WIENUX and OpenOffice.org will be a positiv experience. "we assume the number of people who will change to WIENUX will not exceed some hundred in the first year. Many will just watch how well it works, before they decide" means Lic. Engineer Gillich.

The move to Linux in Munich is on a massive sale, whereas in Vienna it is just a small experiment (some 100 users). The move to OpenOffice is not on a small scale though. OpenOffice will be installed on all computers in Vienna, not just the ones running WIENUX.

Re:Ambitious targets

[bm_luethke]

"the basic user only needs email, internet & office products which all can be operated easily from KDE, they don't really need to know powerful desktop functions."

Ok, normally I hate these types of introductions (and my issue with them is somewhat accurate even now - "I like the thing but I hate it"), but I use Linux in my professional life, will push for it everywhere I will ever work, and use it for many things in my private life. I really do not like windows, but unfortuantly for some uses relying on WINE and such isn't an option.

Saying that - this attitude is *exactly* what kills Linux on the desktop. Would you ever use or recommend something and say "It has only what you need, no easily used powerful desktop functions"? Everyone *should* realise why that is a NOT a winning strategy. While I even very much agree with that statement (hell, I even used BeOS for many a year for average desktop functions, great for that and "multimedia" stuff) - perception is what is important here, not so much reality. Saying what is said above kills Linux in a corperate environment (what if some key corperate venture somewhere in sometime in someplace *needs* those functions - windows has them and you are screwed)

Ultimatly the choice is going to have to made by someone or some people - will Linux move into the desktop as a force. I think that Linux (or some other open-source variant) will someday totally rule the server - it is not that far now, but untill software developers decide to write software they care nothing about (like most jobs) and make software they don't even want to use (like most jobs) it will never reach the desktop as is. Maybe someone like Apple will pick up the underlying tools and write a kilelr UI on top of it - but then you have done what I said above.

But then, I'm not really complaining about the state of affairs per-se - I have not sit down and wrote such a mosnter and I have no intention to do so. If I'm going to write software for free I will do something that interests me. I'm more complaining about that attitude - it does WAY more harm than good - better to focus on what we do well than what we do wrong (as an archery coach once told me - never focus on bad shots, you only learn how to make more bad one. focus on the good ones and go from there).

As to the poster I'm replying too - I really don't mean this as harsh it it seems (I agree with you).

Re:Ambitious targets

[Freaky Spook]

Im just coming from the economical side, I work as a technician in public schools and the money that the Government spends on software licences for M$ products is huge.

90% of all my problems are troubleshooting desktop problems with WinXP and also problems with Word, Excell & Outlook. I am not saying that by using Linux these problems will disapear, but it will be cheaper to support these Programs because less is being spent on software licencing.

Its simple economics the only difference between a Linux system & Windows system for users who only need to use the basics is price, why spend X amount of dollars on one thing when you can get the same result much cheaper.

I do believe in choice, but I don't see the logic in going to the expense of something because its believed to be easier, I am not completley Pro linux, but in a government environment where Tax payers are paying for everything, the best value alternative seems much more appealing.

Re:Ambitious targets

[strider44]

or perhaps it's amazing how quick the price goes from $200 a computer to $0 a computer. (I would have chosen euros but I don't have the key on my keyboard...)

Re:Ambitious targets

[dawnread]

"That's a very ambitious target if they are only offering it, not saying "you will use this"."

Linux advocates in ambitious targets shocker ;) - we're trying to take on a multi-billion pound company here - we *must* be ambitious.

Re:Ambitious targets

[RoLi]

Amazing how quickly Microsoft feels threatened when even a small minority of people just talk about not using Windows.

Re:Ambitious targets

[JamesTRexx]

I think this is better. Let those that are afraid to switch to Linux hear from their own colleagues how well it works, and see how little they're affected by spyware and virusses. Then they'll switch voluntarily and have no reason to start complaining about how they're forced to give up windows.

Re:Ambitious targets

[replicant108]

Nice attempt at a straw man argument.

The battlecry (as you term it) is actually "customers should have choice".

In a corporate environment the customer is the organisation.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

> in Vienna it is just a small experiment (some 100 users)

But imagine word of mouth advertising if those few ambitious tell their colleagues that they have mastered the transition successfully. The "me too then" effect caused by may make it a bigger success than if it would be ordered for everyone by the bosses.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Weh]

alt 0128 (on the numeric keypad) does the job:

Re:Ambitious targets

[Weh]

hmm, the euro symbol was lost somewhere, seems like slashdot doesn't support euro symbols.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

Alt-0128 is a Windows character. Try € (€)

Re:Ambitious targets

[roror]

What is the point of protecting the freedom of organisation, if you are giving up individual freedom? Isn't it "penny wise and pound fool"?

Re:Ambitious targets

[killjoe]

Maybe but that's a corporation for you. My corporation forces me to use outlook (an abomination of a bloated pig software). I would love it if my corporation allowed me to use the software of my choice but corporations are not democracies. They are monarchies.

Re:Ambitious targets

[killjoe]

"Saying that - this attitude is *exactly* what kills Linux on the desktop. "

Linux on the desktop is dead? Wow how did I miss that news? Here I thought linux on the desktop was growing. That every day more corporations and cities were migrating more desktops to it. That entire countries were contomplating migrations to linux desktops.

Silly me, I was just looking at the exploding numbers, the constant improvement, the slew of commercial support and the backing of big time enterprise players like HP, Novell and IBM and thinking that linux on the desktop was thriving and growing.

How sad to learn from bm_luethke that it's dying and dead.

Let me ask you for your stats. Can you show me a study done by anybody anywhere that shows that linux adoption on the desktop has stopped or decreasing? If you can't I'll just presume you are talking out of your ass.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's no cheaper to support it. If anything it's probably MORE expensive on average to attain support for it, being that it's still a fringe OS that not even a significant amount of IT is familiar with... As popularity rises, finding decent cheap support also increases..

Licenses have nothing to do with that.. only TCO.

Re:Ambitious targets

[neurovish]

Actually, Linux costs more from a licensing standpoint for a large enterprise (such as a local government) when forced to go with a distribution that comes with "tech support" and the like (such as the Novell Linux Desktop for example).

The volume license for windows is $50 a computer here...guess how much Novell wants for a Linux desktop license? About $75 per install (of course they don't come out and tell you that, it takes a call to Novell after trying to decipher the pricings listed on their site).

Granted no such license exists for Debian, so I'm really just venting. (The Debian tech support is probably as usefull as Novell's too)

Re:Ambitious targets

[sloanster]

Amazing how quick the battlecry goes from "users should have choice" to "users should use linux"

drsmitty misquoted the poster and confounded "should use linux and ms windows" with "should use linux" - and this error somehow adds up to "insightful"?

Re:Ambitious targets

[Penguin Programmer]

Believe it or not, some users may actually (*gasp*) like using Linux better.

I am a full-fledged philosophical GNU/Linux zealot now, but when I started using Linux as my desktop OS sevenish years ago, I had no idea about the philosophy behind the software (I was only 12 years old after all). What I did know was that my Linux system never crashed, let me choose everything about how it looked and acted, ran fairly smoothly on my Pentium Pro 133 with 16MB of RAM, didn't have an annoying little Office Assistant offering to write letters for me, let me kill programs simply by right-clicking on their icons in the taskbar (and actually killed them when I told it to), didn't need an antivirus, managed to read files created on the Windows computers at school and my parents' Macs with equal ease and accuracy, had a million choices for every application that were all free so I wasn't stuck using software I didn't like and that Windows (and Mac OS) had none of these features. Of course, Windows has improved greatly since those days (Windows XP is almost usable in comparison to Windows 98 and NT4), but Linux has improved even more and when I leave my Linux machine at home or at work or at school to use a Windows computer for something, the Windows interface feels clumsy and irritating, never letting me do things how I want to do them.

The users in Vienna will choose the system they like better, and hopefully many of those users will have a similar experience to mine.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice fake sig, asshole.

Slashdot has a system for people who want to put shitty tag lines / links to every post, and it also allows us to turn them off.

Fucker. You're barely above popup blocker circumventors. Barely.

Welcome to the foes list.

-posted AC for OT
- Tezkah

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree wholeheartedly. If you want to drive effective adoption, you need to give the stakeholders a perception that they have a say in the matter. It also gives the Linux IS dept a chance to work out the kinks with a relatively small and friendly user base. Eventually, if our software is as good as we think it is and the techs supporting it are as good as most Nix techs are (compared to the average MSCE du jour(*)) most users will eventually see the light. As for the rest, it is better to let them play in their own (carefully fenced) sandbox for now than to completely alienate them.

My only concern would be to ensure that the IT budget is fairly allocated. If half the users feel the need to drive SUVs, the Civic drivers shouldn't have to pay the gas bills (or the environmental or insurance bills but that's another rant...).

(*) This isn't particularly intended as a personal attack. The simple fact is that anyone dependant on Windows has to completely relearn his trade every 3-5 years while much of the knowledge and skills of a Nix tech or user can last (so far) a lifetime.

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

"What is the point of protecting the freedom of organisation, if you are giving up individual freedom?"

How old are you lil' roror, fourteen?

Tomorrow just tell your boss you both are going to change posts even for a single day, just in order to insure individual freedom is preserved (what the hell is that about the corporation telling the employee what is he expected to do and how?).

Re:Ambitious targets

[Anonymous Coward]

They should aim to make Linux the standard SOE & using Microsoft products to support users who require more specialised programs.

Amazing how quick the battlecry goes from "users should have choice" to "users should use linux"...

If it were my tax dollars paying for it, then yeah, the choice is simple: use the cheaper software.

And all of us know that the vast majority of office workers aren't going to use more than a fraction of the capabilities of Microsoft Office. It should, indeed, be the exception rather than the rule on the desktops of local government drones.

Spelling Mistake

[dr.matrix]

Because Vienna is "Wien" in German, that's "Wienux".

Slight correction

[graviton137]

The distro is called "WIENUX". The city of "Vienna" is called "Wien" in German, so it is an intended pun.

"Wein" would be "wine" in English (we do have very good wine in Wien, though :-) )

Re:Slight correction

[quigonn]

No you don't. The only alcoholic drink that is actually good is the old "16er Blech".

Re:Slight correction

[Anonymous Coward]

Start using glasses, Gscherter(~savage)!

Re:Slight correction

[Anonymous Coward]

16er blech might be what some M$ minions need now ;)

Re:Slight correction

[Einherjer]

parent scored a 2.. unbelievable :)

16er, along with Schwechater and Egger are amongst the most disgusting brews of beer to ever wander the face of Austria.

lucky bitches that we are, they still even outperform everything else that gets imported
(with the exception of the fine brands from Czech) :)

So, if you really want a taste of good Austrian beer try the following:

-Hirter Märzen (if you like it tasty)
-Villacher Märzen (if you like it dead-on)
-Stiegl (if you like it kinda sweet)
-Murauer (if you like it as grand addition to dinner)
-Gösser (if you're into kinky stuff)

Re:Slight correction

[KDR_11k]

That's just his Karma bonus, noone modded him up.

Re:Slight correction

[quigonn]

No, Ottakringer is the right beer on a nice summer evening, simply because you can drink so many of them and will always want more (at least I do).

In all other points, I totally agree, and would like to add some other beers:
- everything from the Schlägl brewery (but especially their rye beer)
- Grieskirchner Märzen (wonderful with Italian food like pizza and lasagne)

Re:Slight correction

[AndrewHowe]

Ottakringer Zwickl for the win! I live in Ottakring (for the loss...)

Re:Slight correction

[dertrieb]

Coming from Vienna , I can only mention the deep-founded disagreement for the micro$oft organization. In vienna, if you dont use linux, you are not a real human :) And another thing, the wine comment is absolutely correct. Some of the best wines are produced here in the country. Unfortunately, due to these micro-vineyards, we cant and dont want to share any with the world. But now that we are on the topic, is anyone interested in producing WEINUX -- a linux based vineyard production system? Does something like that exist? Does Linux or applications for linux support the operations of a vineyard?

Vienna Sausage Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

So is this a canned linux distribution? How about a beowulf cluster of 7 of these vienna weinux cylinders with some strange jelly as coolant?

Neutralized

[DeeZee]

Damn it, I though those Austrians were neutral in the OS-wars!

Re:Neutralized

[MoonFog]

Not only that, Switzerland is the neutral country that stands outside of the UN and everything, not Austria.

Re:Neutralized

[Anonymous Coward]

Austria is constitutionally a neutral country since WW2.

Re:Neutralized

[Hrshgn]

And Switzerland is in the UN since 2002.

Re:Neutralized

[Anonymous Coward]

At least you hit the reagon right...
austria - switzerland...

Re:Neutralized

[Anonymous Coward]

austria - switzerland = germany ?

Re:Neutralized

[Anonymous Coward]

jesus!

no, perhaps you can see on a map, austria and switzerland are close by.
Germany too.

Re:Neutralized

[Anonymous Coward]

"Austria is constitutionally a neutral country since WW2."

With a known nazi as her president till almost yesterday, and one of the world's strongest neonazi movements currently (while not as noisy as most, and that makes them even more dangerous).

Why must...

[concept10]

We get the report when a decent sized city and/or organization switches to Linux? I would rather read some reports of how the transition to Linux was, what software they use, initial user reactions to the OS. You know basic shit like that.

Re:Why must...

[/ASCII]

Well, Slashdot is a news aggregator, basically a collection of interesting links. Since Slashdot does not employ any investigative journalists, they simply can't decide their own content. Try contacting a site that actually writes real articles, and ask them to write the article you want to read. If they do, I'm sure the Slashdot editors will happily link to it.

Re:Why must...

[Anonymous Coward]

We get the report when a decent sized city and/or organization switches to Linux?

Because when a PHB needs to know wether your organization can use Linux or not, you need to cite examples of organizations, especially large ones (like city governments).

Re:Why must...

[jurt1235]

Report from a company switch:
The first 6 weeks the users have to get used to it, after that, they start to understand that they cannot f**k there systems anymore with downloading all kinds of programs, and that they can only work with it.
Other conversions go easy (use win4lin,vmware,windows terminal services to fill the gap).

Re:Why must...

[poopdeville]

Yeah, all was going well until we tried using mysql to hold a 100 mb database. The kernel panicked and we lost 15 years worth of data. The company just couldn't recover from such a stunning blow. I was fired for suggesting Linux, and my boss said he would make me unemployable with bad references forever. All in all, I don't think Linux belongs in the work place.

Re:Why must...

[poopdeville]

I'm just kidding. I would never recommend linux in the work place. ;-)

Re:Why must...

[Armadni General]

Might I ask why anyone would put 15 years of work on a MySQL database without any testing?

Oh, sorry, did I wreck your fun?

Re:Why must...

[leifbk]

Besides, it's kind of weird that they lost their old backups when they ported the data to a new platform.

Oh well -- I guess that the GP must be trolling.

Re:Why must...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because every role out so far has been a disaster..... They are reported in trade mags, however /. doesn't choose to link to them.

Re:Why must...

[Abundantes]

Side comment:
Vienna (wien) is the Austrian Capital and one of the three places where the UNO has dependencies (the other two being New York and Geneva)

The whohle thing is noteworthy because Vienna has not only jumped the Linux Bandwagon but because they are in close contact with the people doing the same in Munich (not that far away).
They have both offered to help and support other cities considering a change as well...

So this is not a single incident but - as they have stated themselves - a movement.

here the official information by the MA14 (thats Magistrats Abteilung or City Dept. 14)
http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/rtf/oss-studie-englisch -kurzfassung-.rtf

And the link to the MA 14 itself - if your interested ask them. (This is german, mind)
http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/

Re:Why must...

[Anonymous Coward]

Might I suggest Wikinews?

Re:Why must...

[VHerring]

"I'm sure the Slashdot editors will happily link to it."

And then link to it again a week later, then another month after that.

nice approach

[scheuri]

I like the idea and the approach, that the city turn s to linux on the desktop AND using a own distro for this.

After all, with this everything is implemented THEY need, nothing more and nothing less...they take advantage of the biggest advantage of OSS:
Choice!

Instead of using a company or existing product per se (I know, its based in Debian), they changed it to their needs and they offer a voluntary change for the employees (at least at the beginning).

I wish them luck and hope they will make progress fast.

Re:nice approach

[Anonymous Coward]

</b>

You're welcome.

Re:nice approach

[scheuri]

ehrm...ya...thanks....*blushes*

Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[John Seminal]

Lets just say Gnome is better than KDE regardless of distro. ;)

Seriously, I have always been a big fan of Debian. SuSE was a close second, but getting it is more of a pain in the ass. Often their ftp is slow, and cryptic to find for newbies. I think SuSE preffers people buying their boxed sets. Having said that, I have found SuSE to be an great desktop replacement for windows. Everything works out of the box, no tinkering required.

But my #1 choice is Debian. The apt-get is the hands down winner for getting new packages. I always hated Red Hat because as soon as I ran into a dependancy problem, I knew the rest of my day was booked. Mandrake just plain sucks in my humble opinion. It looks unprofessional, and weak. Debian, on the other hand, can be a pain in the but to instal, but once you get it up and running, it is unbeatable.

My advice to people is, if you want something easy and are willing to spend $100, get SuSE in the box. There are a ton of applications to help you configure your system. You can use SuSE to run a server, and not worry about downtime (unlike Mandrake which will crash, I have seen it happen at a linux fest, where 12 of us stood in disbelief looking at the new blue screen of death). I knew another guy who had a webserver and ssh set up on SuSE and it ran for over 200 days without a glitch (he took it down when he upgraded his system).

More advice. If your system is old, don't mess with KDE or Gnome, get IceWM. If you want to run Java, stay away from Red Hat. If you want apps wich are bran spanking new, running off the latest packages, stay away from Red Hat.

And the golden rule before installing any linux. Take 2 minutes before starting the instal, open your box, write down on paper what video card you have, what nic you have, what sound card, etc. It will save you 2 hours after instal trying to edit the conf files.

Happy 'puttering around!

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[remmy1978]

My advice to people is, if you want something easy and are willing to spend $100, get SuSE in the box. There are a ton of applications to help you configure your system. You can use SuSE to run a server, and not worry about downtime (unlike Mandrake which will crash, I have seen it happen at a linux fest, where 12 of us stood in disbelief looking at the new blue screen of death). I knew another guy who had a webserver and ssh set up on SuSE and it ran for over 200 days without a glitch (he took it down when he upgraded his system).

For someone not wanting to start a distro war you do an amazingly good job of starting one using little more than anecdotal evidence. My Mandrake box which I use for all my computer work has been running for almost 420 days now without a reboot. Just goes to show how much a single experience is worth.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[eobanb]

Ubuntu, folks. Ubuntu. It defaults to Gnome (and you can always switch to KDE), works out of the box, has a huge variety of software available (as it is 95% Debian). It's just really up to date and stable, works great on x86 (and x86-64) and PPC in my experience, plus there's a liveCD version. Ubuntu is probably the one distro I don't have any serious complaints about; Fedora Core is just a pile of shit compared to Ubuntu, as there is no easy way to update from, for example, FC3 to FC4. With Ubuntu you just use apt-get. For older hardware, I'd say Debian and perhaps IceWM or fluxbox.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[/ASCII]

I'm not sure if your post is a troll or not, especially given the first paragraph... But your opinions of Red Hat are very descriptive of where Red Hat was five years ago. Since then, they've switched to using apt-get and yum as the default/recomended way of installing packages. That's right, you can use your own favourite tool apt-get to install rpm packages under Red Hat, automatically resolving dependencies for you. Since Fedora Core 4, there is also a community driven repository called Fedora Extras that is enabled in the configuration _by default_, which brings FC a big step closer to having the huge wealth of packages available to people using the debian universe.

For example, to install fish, a shell that I've written, under FC4, all you need to do is type yum install fish as root.

As to the 'golden rule' of yours, I've not had to manually configure my NIC, my soundcard or my videcard once for the last three years while installing Red Hat distributions on at least half a dozen different computers, including Laptops. I don't know, but it might be a problem in Debian! ;-)

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

And the golden rule before installing any linux. Take 2 minutes before starting the instal, open your box, write down on paper what video card you have, what nic you have, what sound card, etc. It will save you 2 hours after instal trying to edit the conf files.

Proudly posted from my gnu+linux box:

I have no idea what type of sound or video card I have. I dont know what a nic card is. I have never edited a config file.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[dash2]

hmm. how many hours have you been using it?

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[TheOrquithVagrant]

I haven't tried Ubuntu myself, but I'm hearing nothing but good things about it.
However, you're wrong about there not being any easy ways to upgrade Fedora Core distros. I haven't reinstalled any of my personal machines for ages. My fileserver was originally installed with RedHat 7.1, and has been smoothly upgraded from that to the FC4 it's running now. And for the last few years, it hasn't even had a graphics card in it, so I've been doing the upgrades remotely, using apt for rpm. Not a single problem with it, so far.

My main box, due to it running a bunch more self-made rpms and tweaks, has turned up some minor strangeness with distro upgrades via apt, but nothing that was any actual trouble to resolve.

The officially supported upgrade path for Fedora/Redhat distros (Pop CD/DVD in, reboot, and choose upgrade) is "easy" too. It's just inconvenient compared to apt-get or yum "online" upgrades, since you lose the use of your computer during the upgrade, wheras with apt or yum, you can keep working as the upgrade process runs. Redhat really do need to get with the program and make apt/yum full distro upgrades officially supported, like they are in debian-based distros. Preferably, I'd like to see the Smart Package Manager replace apt/yum, once it's out of beta, because from trying it, it seriously kicks the butt of both apt and yum.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[l3v1]

Redundant or offtopic, don't care:

Lets just say Gnome is better than KDE regardless of distro. ;)

And you get Informative when starting an post with that line.

Go Gnome-ers, just please, keep it [i.e. Gnome] out of my face.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmmm - maybe you should try to install a _modern_ distro.

In the unlikely event that you actually must know what's in the case, ALT-[SHI]-F2, and run lspci. If lspci doesn't recognize it, the odds that you'll find a driver for it aren't that great anyway. <wry grin>

Your advice to write down everything in the case was good - five years ago.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[jaavaaguru]

Ubuntu, folks. Ubuntu. It defaults to Gnome (and you can always switch to KDE)

Kubuntu, folks. Kubuntu. It defaults to KDE.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[aug24]

I don't know, but it might be a problem in Debian! ;-)

As a Debian/Xandros user, I can confirm that I can't even remember how we used to do this any more ;-)

J.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[/ASCII]

Thank you for clearing that up. That means that the entire post by eobanb consists of things that where sound advice about five years ago, but do not correctly represent the status of todays distros. (I don't knoe about how stable Mandriva is, but the distro known as Mandrake does not exist anymore, so opinions on it are deprecated)

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[TractorBarry]

Well I'm not interested until someone releases a version that defaults to XFCE 'cause Xubuntu sounds so much besterest than the others...

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

"almost 420 days now..."

I give it about another week. :)

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it has comprehensive and easy to use GUI tools for configuring everything on your computer? For example, your network card, your soundcard, your samba server. your partitions, your firewall, your video card and monitor etc.

SUSE has yast, which is the most comprehensive Linux GUI configuration tool I've used. I've never had to touch a text configuration file under SUSE and it's fantastic for remote admin. Additionally, I wouldn't recommend anything but SUSE to friends because they would think Linux was the worst platform ever if they have to drop to the command-line to configure things.

Ubuntu is a good distro but it's not desktop ready until it is easy to setup. It does a great job of autodetection but there are things that a user needs to be able to configure easily.

Face it, all distributions are basically the same except for the package manager (which are all blown out of proportion anyway as lots of them are fine) and how easy they are to setup. URPMI, apt-get and SUSE's RPM system are all equally easy to use and resolve dependencies automatically. It's the setup tools that differentiate them.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[bmalia]

I had no problems with Mandrake when I ran it. I run Xandros now, and lovin' it.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

Face it, all distributions are basically the same except for the package manager (which are all blown out of proportion anyway as lots of them are fine) and how easy they are to setup. URPMI, apt-get and SUSE's RPM system are all equally easy to use and resolve dependencies automatically. It's the setup tools that differentiate them.

Pretty much. I didn't like SUSE's default desktop setup. That big bar at the bottom that didn't stretch all the way across looks like piss. I know you can change it. But I prefer ones that default to KDE and have firefox and thunderbird as the default web browser and e-mail client. Such as... Xandros, which also installs in an impressive 20 minutes!

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[ashSlash]

Ubuntu recommendation seconded.
It. Just. Works.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny you say that. Considering my Suse is now crashing regularly now. It used to be stable before but since the last 2 months something happened. I am only getting past that with scheduled downtimes.

I am still trying to stick with it as I like YaST. Maybe it will just go away if I reinstall.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[sloanster]

I have to second the earlier poster's comment about suse vs mandrake. I hate to say anything bad about a linux distro, but mandrake has not been stable any of the times I've tried it.

My impression of mandrake is "cute but flaky", while suse is more along the lines of "cute and solid".

I've been using linux *heavily* since 1993 BTW.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[sc0ob5]

Well I'm sure we all know that personal experiences can differ greatly, and although I'm sure Mandrake wasn't stable for you. I have used Mandrake (9) in the past as a squid and http server with uptimes of over 200 days. If thats not what you would call stable I dont know what is.

Re:Please, people. Lets not start a distro war...

[jaavaaguru]

Nah, Eubuntu sounds better. Enlightenment as the default window manager.

Better Name

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, couldn't they have chosen a better name, perhaps WurstSmoking? Blame the fish.

This means nothing to me.

[ettlz]

Oh, Vienna!

Re:This means nothing to me.

[Velox_SwiftFox]

The romance of the canals... or is it the fjords?

more apt story title

[hobotron]

Choosy Italians Choose Linux!

Re:more apt story title

[deetsay]

No no, that's another story. A city in Italy is looking to move away from proprietary vendors as well. Their official browser is based on Mozilla, and is called FIRENZEFOX.

when sahll we have a critical mass?

[bogaboga]

When will the "critical mass" on cities that have chosen Linux be struck? My city, Toronto which prides itself of being "progressive" does not have as much Linux infrastructure. If more cities catch on with Linux, my own city will see the light.

On the other hand, M$ must be thinking...

"This [Linux] phenomenon is not going to go away anytime soon...and our campaign has not worked as well...but life is still worth living because though costs have doubled and profits declined, we still hang on!"

Question is: Hang on? But for how long?

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[william_w_bush]

ahem...

Large corporations usually dont lose nights of sleep when the `pro` segment of their customers, the ones who know well enough to ask for better, decide to switch to solutions that require more effort and/or knowledge.

Large corporations sell to people who know no better, and cant be bothered too. Smaller, more boutiqued, and/or specialized firms or user groups tend to cater to the everyday Joe Slob who just wants the simple music downloads and fastest pr0n access box for cheap, especially when if anything goes wrong they have other people to call up and yell at.

Seriously, nobody ever researched all the possible pros and cons of different architectures, and decided `hey, you know what? Im gonna design my mission-critical, or high-performance application on the one operating system rated to have the most extensive vulnerabilities, which cause billions of dollars of loss a year, cause well im feeling kinda lucky today.`

Know some admins I wouldnt piss on if their servers were on fire who use linux... badly, but most of the good admins i know who use windows do so because they have no choice. Seriously, EVERY pro app in engineering, accounting, and most of the other things people use in real life has an up-to-date version on windows, not so much for linux or even apple, and MSs beautiful `bundling? what bundling, its innovation` crap means any of those apps that needs a network framework needs a complete active directory or even windows PDC to work properly. Its hard to keep kids off crack when the schools serve it with lunch.

My greater fear is that over the last few years, linux has been getting better and better at being completely invisible. You can set up a linux openldap and samba system well enough that no one can tell the difference. Half the transparent gateways nowadays run some brand of linux, along with those new insta-nas boxes. Its not a bad thing for linux, but its kinda bad for linux on the desktop, because it makes the desktop part of linux the least neccessary. Windows demands a MS framework to run, linux is so nice you could slave it to a crazy, naked popcorn machine and it would work happily without a squeak.

Its not that linux has a disadvantage, MS just plays their (unfair, and greedy)advantage a lot harder on everybody else, and in the OS wars homecourt advantage is everything, ask OS/2. Bundling does hurt, just not the way youd think.

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[XTbushwakko]

Linux won't be worried untill GNU/Linux reaches a point where it's userfriendly AND compatible enough that a big OEM decide to have it as an option or to include it in their computers for free. Imagine DELL suddenly shipping with KDE or something. If only a few percent of the customers buy it linux will double it's market share in a few months! Just think of the word of mouth marketing when someone tells a friend, "I bought this computer at Dell and saved $200 when choosing something called Linux/Openoffice instead of Windows/MSOffice! IT WILL BE A REVOLUTION! GLOOOOORIOUS!! ;)

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[NicklessXed]

I'm not so sure about that... Even if, for example, DELL started offering Linux as an alternative, most people would probably stick with what they know, MS Windows. Sure, the market share of Linux would increase, but I don't think it would be widely used by your average consumer. For that to happen, one of the big OEMs would probably have to really push Linux, make sure it becomes an important factor in their marketing... (just imagine DELL offering Linux PCs, with Windows XP available as an alternative for an additional $200... this would probably work better than the other way around).

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[XTbushwakko]

I agree that Dell pushing linux as the main OS and Windows as an expensive addon would be better. However it's very unlikely.

Even if, for example, DELL started offering Linux as an alternative, most people would probably stick with what they know, MS Windows. Sure, the market share of Linux would increase, but I don't think it would be widely used by your average consumer.

Well, that little market share increase would be in the newbie/inexperienced/regular joe sector.

If like one inexperienced guy could get a linux alternative from a "trusted" source like Dell and then being able to tell his friends it suddenly is main-stream. It's a whole lot diffrent then a newbie which has gotten linux pushed on him by his geek friend (read: me).That user will think he's using a hard to use OS, while if Dell sold it to him, he'll think of it as an alternative. AND he'd probably have support.

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[jejones]

What MS is thinking... I'd like to think they're thinking of that Ringo Starr hit:

"She said she loved me but I knew she was lyin', ah hah hah
Felt like an Arab who was dancin' through Zion, ah hah hah
Don't call the doctor if you just feel like cryin', ah hah hah
It's all da-da-da-down to 'Goodnight, Vienna'..."

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work in the Toronto District School Board. Due to corrupt, incompetent bureaucrats and bad administrative decisions, millions are spent on M$ junk, despite a few perfectly functioning linux labs by competent computer teachers. Administrators ignore or even actively attempt to shutdown linux labs, due to M$ threats/kickbacks, etc. That is why there is so little linux in Toronto schools for example. If you are a Canadian taxpayer, you should be demanding transparency and accountability about how computer dollars, especially M$ licensing costs are spent, in schools. It's really quite appalling how M$ and corrupt, incompetent administrators are wasting tax dollars, etc. "Go ahead, tax me, I'm Canadian...:-))"

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[egypt_jimbob]

You've forgotten one important thing: Microsoft doesn't play fair.

If Dell were to offer linux as a desktop option, MS would very likely raise their licensing fees to (even more) exorbatant prices. Or, if they think they can get away with it, threaten to stop selling them any licenses.

Re:when sahll we have a critical mass?

[XTbushwakko]

wasn't there a case about this? telling ms they weren't allowed to make clauses that gave financial gains to companies that would not ship with other OS's?

vienna... austria?

[william_w_bush]

ya thinkin a venice there sir?

wIEnux, not wEInux

[boldra]

Which would be pronounced "veenux" by a German speaker.

It has to be said...

[Anonymous Coward]

How long before we see a big, nasty, 7-CD distro, with lots of packages, called "Penux"? /ducks, posting anon

Re:It has to be said...

[radja]

it's called SuSe ;)

Re:It has to be said...

[NotoriousQ]

Never, if the Jesux people can do something about it.

Re:It has to be said...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Fedora Core (4) is already at 5 cd's (or 1 dvd), but I know older versions of SuSE (and others too) that offered all and sundry (at the time) --basically a good chunk of Sourceforge on 8 or 9 CD's. Now however, you couldn't get 1/4 of Sourceforge apps for Linux on 9 or 10 DVD's. Just too danmed much choice... More is more...

Re:It has to be said...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shortly after the Australian government in Canberra pisses off the Canadians by creating their own distro, Canux.

Are you serious?

[The Slaughter]

The "basic user" who is only using it for email/internet/office is going to be very afraid to switch, unwilling, upset and just generally not happy about the change. I've seen it happen in my workplace, where a large number of the workers are just barely competant in Windows to do what they want. Try to force a new operating system on them, and you'll have mass revolt.
It's better to offer it as an option, and slowly push it. It also gives them a chance to work out the kinks on the users who don't mind as much (since they were willing to be earlier-adopters).
Eventually, the afraid huddling masses will say, "Hey, how did you do that? That's pretty cool, I can't do that on my Windows system" and they'll train each other on it. But that will take time.
So... that's the extremely drawn out answer of 'why' they won't immediately make it the standard.

At this rate

[Anonymous Coward]

We'll be able to roll the moon with 5 minutes to spare!

-1 Offtopic

Clarifications

[ardor]

I'm Austrian, and want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about Austria by tourists:

* no, we are not the country with the kangaroos
* no, we don't have a Nazi government (I keep hearing that from Americans all the time)
* our Wiener Schnitzel is really tasty, yeah
* our kids don't go to school by skiing (well, most of them don't)
* we don't eat much sauerkraut. That's what Germans do.
* never confuse us with Germans. We really don't like that. Its like confusing americans with canadians. They eat us alive if we do this.
* We don't wear Lederhosen all the time.

Re:Clarifications

[torpor]

My Girlfriend is Austrian... so based on my recent indoctrinations, I'll also add:

- Everything is better in Wien .. Wine, Chocolate, Food, Trains, Art, Music, Chocolate, Chocolate, and Chocolate.

- If you speak German, you don't speak Viennese.

- Wien is the only baroque city. There are no others.

Re:Clarifications

[fizze]

yeah right.

Every Austrian not living in Vienna will tell you that "Vienna is different".
The rest of Austria doesnt like people living in Vienna.

Vienna the only baroque city ? yeah right ;) sweet irony...... -#)

Re:Clarifications

[scheuri]

- Everything is better in Wien .. Wine, Chocolate, Food, Trains, Art, Music, Chocolate, Chocolate, and Chocolate.

Oh, Austria makes chocolat, too?

a swiss citizen

Re:Clarifications

[MichaelSmith]

no, we don't have a Nazi government (I keep hearing that from Americans all the time)

Yep. That's Australia

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

not to forget:

* virtually NOBODY in Austria has ever heard of "The Sound of Music", let alone seen it. And those who have were shocked, disgusted and terrified.

Re:Clarifications

[Einherjer]

Mozartkugeln :)

as an Austrian I have to surrender :)

yes, Suisse Chocolat = teh best!

btw, visiting Zürich in two weeks. *fun fun fun* :)

Re:Clarifications

[henrywood]

* no, we don't have a Nazi government (I keep hearing that from Americans all the time)

Those damned Yankees keep getting things back to front.

Re:Clarifications

[madaxe42]

Posting from lucerne... Mozartkugeln are evil - once you have one you need 200.

Re:Clarifications

[NicklessXed]

we don't eat much sauerkraut. That's what Germans do.

No, we don't. Well, at least most of us don't - you couldn't force me to eat that crap. But there are weirdos everywhere...

Re:Clarifications

[gibodean]

I'm Australian, and want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about Australia by tourists:

* yes, we are the country with the kangaroos
* no, we don't have a convict government
* our meat pies are really tasty, yeah
* our kids don't go to school by sitting in a kangaroo pouch (well, most of them don't)
* we don't have sex with sheep. That's what New Zealanders do.
* never confuse us with New Zealanders. We really don't like that. Its like confusing americans with canadians. They eat us alive if we do this.
* We don't wear akubra hats all the time.
* Yes, at the olympics they once played the Austrian national anthem when we won gold.

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

But you do have kangaroos. Try visiting Schoenbrunn zoo!

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, Austria makes chocolat, too?

a swiss citizen

Oh, Switzerland makes chocolat too ??

a belgian citizen ;-)

Re:Clarifications

[OwlWhacker]

Ah, but you do wear clogs... don't you?

Re:Clarifications

[mabinogi]

I'm a New Zealander, and I want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about New Zealand by Australians.

* Yes we are the country with the sheep
* We use the sheep for meat and wool, and are not entirely sure what Australians think sheep are kept for, or why they would immediately jump to the conclusions they do.
* Every famous Australian is really a New Zealander.
* Every one of them.

Re:Clarifications

[Einherjer]

yeah, thank god we have those "Spar Mozartkugel"-Lookalikes. Taste the same, just not officially Mirabell-Branded. And cost only about 20 cent per 20 pieces. :) (opposed to 2 euros per 10 pieces original Mirabell)

Re:Clarifications

[jesterzog]

* Every famous Australian is really a New Zealander.

Shhh, don't tell them that. We want them to keep Russell Crowe.

Re:Clarifications

[realkiwi]

* we don't have sex with sheep. That's what New Zealanders do.

Correct: Australians don't have sex, they drink beer. New Zealanders have all the sex with frustrated Australian women. The fleece is just there to confuse the Australian men (and it's comfy out there in the desert).

* most Australians ARE called Bruce
* most Australians go out in drag on Saturday night and are then called Sheila (this is very confusing for NZ sex tourists!)
* all gay Australians live in London, England's West End (beware of girls called Sheila with strong accents when on vacation in London...)

Re:Clarifications

[weg]

- Everything is better in Wien .. Wine, Chocolate, Food, Trains, Art, Music, Chocolate, Chocolate, and Chocolate

Are you sure you're not talking about Zurich, Switzerland? (well, of course your "girl friend" might have given you a wrong address ;-))

(I'm currently living in Vienna, but will move to Zurich soon)

Re:Clarifications

[Thaelon]

I'm New Zealander*, and want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about New Zealander by tourists:

* yes, we are the country with the tazmanian devils
* no we don't have a Monarchy government
* our fishes are really tasty, yeah
* our kids don't go to school by swimming (well, most of them don't)
* we don't have sex with sheep that's what Australians do.
* never confuse us with Australians. We really dont' like that. It's like confusing Americans with Canadians. They swear at us incomprehensibly if we do this.
* We are not fruit
* What are the olympics?

*I'm not really a New Zealander

Re:Clarifications

[NZheretic]

I'm a New Zealander, and want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about us from Australians.

* yes, we are the country with the kiwis
* no, we are not a state of Australia, so we definitely do not have a convict government.
* we invented the pavlova desert, and our pies don't contain marsupials
* our kids don't go to school by riding flightless birds.
* we don't have sex with sheep. Neither do we have a song where the lyrics say "Tie my kangaroo down sport".
* never confuse us with Australians. It's bad enough that the Australians keep claiming out entertainers, born or raised in New Zealand as their own.
* We don't all have cool tattoos.
* Yes, we thrashed the Lions, a rugby team consisting of the best from England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

Re:Clarifications

[spikedvodka]

so Question for you:
What Happens when an Australian decides to emigrate to new Zealand?

Answer: The average IQ of both countries goes up

Reverse the countries if you happen to be from NZ

Re:Clarifications

[I_M_Noman]

we invented the pavlova desert

Just where is this "Pavlova Desert"? Is it near the Namib? Or did you mean "dessert"?

Re:Clarifications

[RasputinAXP]

Having been to Austria twice (Vienna and Salzburg, nothing in between unfortunately),

* Nope, there's no kangaroos
* No, there's no Nazi government
* The Wiener Schnitzel IS quite tasty. I've always loved veal.
* It DID snow both times I was there, and both trips happened to be in April. Snow doesn't stick to the ground in Wien though.
* No sauerkraut to be found
* Certainly not German.
* I only saw Lederhosen once, and that was on TV. I didn't catch all of it, but I think it was a German character anyway.

I plan on going back ASAP after I visit a friend in Germany.

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

How many tens of thousands of Austrians went to Heldenplatz and lined the Ringstrasse to welcome Hitler into Vienna?

Oh, and why did they use to fly the Swastika in the theatre in Salzburg BEFORE the so-called annexation?

Re:Clarifications

[dertrieb]

I have the urge to comment on this one. Why is it that we STILL focus so much of our attention on Nazi and Austria? Is this your way of showing you have a certain media-induced level of historic information? Does this make you sound intellectual? Consider once that the generations since then have actually built one of the most stable and economically functional systems in the world! I just wish that at some point Austria will not always be immediately associated with Nazis (as i have been called many times while in the states) and instead be seen as a small, prospering and an immensely culturally diverse country.
Btw, if you ever come and visit Austria, in particular Vienna, you will see the abundance of multi-cultural people that have moved here over the past decade. There are almost more non-austrians in vienna. With the expansion of the EU, one could argue that Vienna is becoming once again the center for creativity, knowledge and business. See pre-WWI era...

Another interesting fact that many people seem to not know about Vienna -- Vienna has about 1.8 million (roughly) inhabitants, the next big city (Graz) has about 250.000 of a total of 8 million in Austria. If you take this comparison, than Washington DC should have roughly 60 million inhabitants (about a fourth of the total current american population). This is an interesting distribution of city-to-country population. No other city in the world, as far as i know, has this.

I guess its time to start marketing a little bit more my home country :)

Re:Clarifications

[m50d]

The people from the town know about it and hate it (some of the family servants are still alive, and the woman wasn't actually very nice at all). Go there and sing it in the nastier parts of town and see how long it takes to get your head kicked in. Like yankee doodle in texas, so I hear.

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

But, wasn't the Nazi-big ass Hitler an Austrian?

Re:Clarifications

[corngrower]

I'm an Iowan, and want to clarify some stuff I keep hearing about Iowa by tourists:

* yes, there is a lot of corn grown around here
* yes, we do hold those silly caucuses here to help select the presidential candidates
* those Iowa chops are really tasty
* most kids don't walk two miles to school. They ride a school bus.
* we don't have sex with sheep. I won't comment about the pigs, though.
* don't confuse us with Ohio or Idaho. We really don't like that. It's like confusing americans with canadians. Worse actually since we don't care if you call canadians americans.
* not all of us are outstanding in our fields, but alot of farmers do wear farmer caps.
* We've never hosted an olympics. Certainly not a winter olympics as there's nothing close to a mountain around here.

Re:Clarifications

[1110110001]

we don't eat much sauerkraut. That's what Germans do.

But you should try Käsekrainer (please don't ask me how it's called in English). It's like a bratwurst with cheese in it. You can find it at the various Würstlstandl (like sausage/hotdog-stand). Best served with a piece of bread and mustard (your mileage may vary).

b4n

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

well - don't say that so easily...

i used to think the same, or better i didn't think at all about stuff like that, but then, after some years of moving around, you could see me searching for a german restaurant in rio de janeiro - funny, because normally i don't suffer from "heimweh" at all.

but somehow the urge for "sauerkraut", and i mean real sauerkraut with "Wacholderbeeren" and Lorbeerblättern (i mean think about it) became so big i couldn't live anymore without it.

of course as soon as i was finished with the stuff i knew it was silly and i was "cured" for some months - but i learned to not underestimate such things...

Re:Clarifications

[HarryZink]

> as an Austrian I have to surrender :)

No, you would need to be French for that :-)

Another Austrian in Hiding!

Re:Clarifications

[HarryZink]

> I have the urge to comment on this one.

Ditto.

> Why is it that we STILL focus so much of our attention on
> Nazi and Austria? Is this your way of showing you have a
> certain media-induced level of historic information?

No, it's his way of showing that he has a certain America-based stupidity (or, if you want to be 'nice', ignorance).

Next time an American throws the Nazi reference at you, just kindly remind them:

- we have laws that outlaw any Nazi propaganda, symbols, or the likes, and thus you won't be seeing an Neo-Nazis marching up and down the street (as you can see in the US during their demonstrations).

- when reminded by your American friend that this is all part of Free Speech and Freedom of Expression, simply ask him "So, does that mean that it *would* be okay for Austria to have a Nazi presence, then?" Watch stuttering that follows.

- Remind the proud American that his own government engaged in the systematic extermination of his country's native population (the 'Native Americans/Indians') and remind same proud American about that little matter of the smallpox blankets. Quite a few of your antagonists will either be ignorant, or claim that this is something different. Yeah, right.

In the end, it comes down to ignorance and stupidity, and while it's sometimes entertaining to engage such dorks, I do, for the most part, find ignoring them to be the better part of valor.

Re:Clarifications

[dukoids]

* never confuse us with Germans (...) They eat us alive if we do this.

I'm German. I need to apologize -- I did not realize that "Wiener Wuerstchen" were actually made of living Austrians. However, they taste very well -- especially when combined with sauerkraut.

Re:Clarifications

[ltmon]

* Every famous Australian is really a New Zealander. Yes, even Russell Crowe. You should have kept him.

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

* no, we are not the country with the kangaroos

Except for the one greeting you in the AustrALian pub just behind the Opera.

* no, we don't have a Nazi government (I keep hearing that from Americans all the time)

Well, except for the Freedom Party. No, they're not Nazis. But the former leader (and by all accounts, the continuing unoffical leader) did say that Hitler had an excellent labour policy. And of course, there are all those signs up around the city that say the Vienna is not allowed to become Istanbul.

* our Wiener Schnitzel is really tasty, yeah

Except the true Wienerschnitzel should use veal, which is so unfashionable these days. To clarify for those in the US that have a Wienerscnitzel hot dog stands: the real Wienerscnitzel is deep-fried breaded pork or veal, not hot dogs.

* our kids don't go to school by skiing (well, most of them don't)

Yes, but if you don't ski, people look at you as if you were from another planet.

* we don't eat much sauerkraut. That's what Germans do.

No, Austrians prefer 1001 different variations on dumplings. Only occasionally do you get sauerkraut. Most of what's called sauerkraut in Vienna is just cabbage, not properly pickled for years in a hazmat environment.

* never confuse us with Germans. We really don't like that. Its like confusing americans with canadians. They eat us alive if we do this.

Strange. It doesn't seem that the Germans take offence, just the Austrians. Much like the Canadians, Scots, and New Zealanders take offence to being called Americans, English and Australians.

* We don't wear Lederhosen all the time.
Not all the time, no. But there's always at least one hiker who will be wearing Lederhosen.

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

You're also less annoying than the cornhuskers next door to you, and have some great uhh clubs, like the playhouse.

posting anonymously for fear of retaliation by hicks in pickup trucks with big red N's on them.

Re:Clarifications

[bhiestand]

That'd be the netherlands, holland area especially. Y'know, the dutch, not the danish.

Re:Clarifications

[NicklessXed]

Like I said, there are weirdos everywhere... be happy to be one of them ;-)

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to make a blind assumption that most of the Nazi government questions come from the relatively recent entry of the Austrian Freedom Party and Joerg Haider into Austria's government. When they first took power, the Nazi references flew thick and heavy. Though Haider is no longer in the party or leads it, there's still a distinct rightish leaning to the government.

Stupidity (or I'll be 'nice': ignorance) isn't the sole domain of Americans.

Re:Clarifications

[e_AltF4]

> * our FISHES are really tasty, yeah
> [...]
> *I'm NOT really a New Zealander

Nobody would have guessed that you're not a native speaker :-)

Re:Clarifications

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah americans can be really glad to have such a perfect government, and don't forget this really likeable president.

Re:Clarifications

[identity0]

I'm a Slashdotter, and I want to clairfy some things I keep hearing about Slashdot from Farkers.

* Yes we are the one ruled by a Cowboy and a Taco.
* Tacos are tasty, yeah.
* Yes, we have lots of dupes.
* Never confuse us with Kuro5hiners, they hate that.
* No, we don't all make Goatse posts.
* Yes, we had so many Goatse links at one point they created link domain warnings.
* Yes, we have lots of dupes.
* We've doubled the number of women here this year, to 4.
* I know this will get modded flamebait, but Slashdot mods have groupthink and tend to mod things the oppisite of what the post says it will get.

I see what you've done here...

[Anonymous Coward]

i fuck cmdrtaco sheep

I see what you've done here.

I am quite interested, please subscribe me to your news letter.

Follow Up Story

[gregarican]

I have read a decent number of articles about cities choosing to adopt Linux but would be more curious to read a follow up story of how the transition went using hindsight, say a month later, a year later, etc. What were the major obstacles and how were they overcome? After the dust settled how does worker productivity and cost effectiveness stand? These sort of facts could help start a domino effect where other IT execs could build cases to present to their respective PHB's in order to make the switch.

Kind of like some of the countless U.S. reality shows where people and houses are made over (e.g. - The Swan, The Biggest Loser, Extreme Home Makeover). Rather than short term focus I'd love to see the shows check in a year later to see how things look. That's more indicative of true success and failure.

Re:Follow Up Story

[Otter]

What were the major obstacles and how were they overcome?

My impression is that in most of those heavily-hyped cases, nothing ever wound up happening at all.

Rather than short term focus I'd love to see the shows check in a year later to see how things look. That's more indicative of true success and failure.

I believe Joe Millionaire wound up ditching the shy kindergarten teacher for the bondage video model he had previously relegated to second place, if that's any help.

Re:Follow Up Story

[NullProg]

My impression is that in most of those heavily-hyped cases, nothing ever wound up happening at all.

The city of Largo seems to have done well and they are even looking to hire people with general purpose computer/Linux knowledge.

Largo Loves Linux

Enjoy,

Re:Follow Up Story

[Otter]

The fact that the only major* Linux desktop deployment anyone ever talks about is Largo's migration five years ago is the primary reason I'm skeptical about the rest of those stories.

(To the degree that a small city that will probably be subsumed by the Church of Scientology in the next few decades qualifies as "major"...)

In soviet Berlin

[everett]

In Soviet Berlin, Linux uses you!

Re:In soviet Berlin

[Anonymous Coward]

OHHH God YES...
Where is that place ??

But what the famous Gondolas of Vienna?

[haakondahl]

Gotcha there, canal-boy.

America!!

America!!

America!!

Human translation of article

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the babelfish translation is beyond discussion, here's a human-translated version. I'm not a native speaker of English, so excuse some mistakes. I omitted some paragraphs at the end, otherwise everything is complete. Pretty interesting article actually :-).

---

Correspondence of the Office of the Mayor (July 5th, 2005)

WIENUX-Day: Viennese Solution for Open Source

Open Source in Vienna (Wien) - Presentation of WIENUX

Vienna (RK). Today Stadtrat (city councillor) member Rudi Schicker presented the current status of OS-usage in Vienna during a media conference in the main public library of Vienna. Together with Gemeinderat (councillor) A. Schieder and Nationalratsabgeordnetem (member of national parliament) Josef Broukal, WIENUX was presented, the version of Linux prepared for use in the city of Vienna. During a WIENUX information day, employees of the city of Vienna could get information about WIENUX and OpenOffice.org and try out Linux and OpenOffice.org on the spot. As Schicker emphasizes: "it's not about making decisions so to say from above, but giving the employees individual freedoms where possible, for a creative administration, ".

Vienna has already used OSS products for several years in the server area. Because of the positive experiences made, the development of OSS standard componentes for desktops has been observed for some time, and their use been investigated in study. The MA 14-ADV (IT department???) administrates 18,000 PCs, 8,200 printers and 560 servers. Most desktops run under Windows 2000, whose support by Microsoft will last until 2010, but there is not that much time. "Every five to seven years, a great pressure to migrate evolves, even if you skip over one to two versions" points out department head Dipl.- Ing. (engineer) SR Erwin Gillich. Therefore a migration of the systems would be due three years earlier, at the latest 2008, in contrast to Munich [another Linux deployment], where the time pressure was much greater because of obsolete hard- and software.

Open Source study

During a study, a comprehensive inventory of the sw used on every PC was made and used as a basis for finding the migration potential. The results of the study "OSS in the Magistrat Wien" show, that about 7,500 PCs could use the licensing-cost-free OpenOffice.org instead of MS Office. 4,800 of these PCs could even be switched to an OSS operating system.

In October 2004, a working group was started, which worked on the use of OS sw on the desktops of the Magistrat. The requirement was to develop an open source platform which can communicate with the existing MS infrastructure. The results are the custom-tailored operating system WIENUX and the use of OpenOffice.org. Both are offered by the MA 14-ADV in the course of a "gentle product introduction" beginning in June 2005.

Voluntary switchover

The most important consideration is voluntariness: Those who want to can choose the open source way; who is attached to the old products, may stay there. The licensing-cost-free operating system WIENUX was developed based on Debian with the KDE (Kool Desktop Enviroment) desktop. Firefox is used as the web browser, emails can be accessed using MS Outlook WebAccess, there is also an SAP-access and various additional tools. WIENUX is under the so-called GNU/GPL (GNU General Public Licence).

OpenOffice.org

OpenOffice.org, which is also free of licensing cost, is the counterpart to MS-Office, which the Magistrat currently uses. It can be installed in a cross-platform fashion on both WIENUX- and MS-Windows-PCs, an can be used in parallel to MS-Office under Windows2000. OOo comprises the programs Writer (for writing documents), Calc (for making tables), Impress (for presentations), Draw (drawing program), Base (DB module) and Math (scientific formula editor).

Making experiences

In order t

Re:Human translation of article

[Val314]

and here is the short (english) Version of the original Study:
http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/pdf/oss-studie-englisch -kurzfassung.pdf

The german full version is here:
http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/pdf/oss-studie-deutsch- langfassung.pdf

Nooo...

[Knight_Walker]

It's called WIENUX, like the German name for the city - WIEN. [Hint: German W's are pronounced as English V's] Now they have to chose between Wienux and Wiendows :) Pretty nice, Austria rocks for having a strong Open-Source Community, it seems.

Re:lick my late night asshole

[Armadni General]

When posting links to shock sites, it makes you look stupid if you use an image from such a well-known domain like "tubgirl."

IE and EI

[poenn]

I often see Americans changing these in german words. I think it is because of the pronounciation. Wien for example only sounds like Wien, if Americans write it Wein. You can see this in any word containing these 2 letters. I've seen Weiners instead of Wieners, etc... Well, at least you know that Bier is Beer and not Beir... :-)

Re:IE and EI

[PigIronBob]

Yes, I think it's an 'English as first Language' thing, here in Australia you see it a lot, even amongst German teachers. I've had to 'correct' the corrections a teacher made to my daughter's homework on many an occasion. All of these related to the 'ie' 'ei' problem. She (the teacher) got really sick of it. I was raised in the Netherlands so I had to learn my fair share of langusages in my time, finally paying of (for my kids) ;)

Re:IE and EI

[bhiestand]

Thank you.

Being an american with a swiss german last name, I couldn't agree more. The worst part is that when you ask them "What's that rule... the 'I' before 'E' thing", they'll be able to say "Oh, yeah, 'I' before 'E' except after 'C'". They just can't seem to apply that to any letter other than C! Idiots, I tell you, idiots. I once had a person attempt to correct me and tell me I spelled my own name wrong! Talk about a lack of understanding about english as well as its germanic roots.

Difficult to overstate the importance of this

[SimianOverlord]

I don't think many slashdotters really realise the significance of Wien, and so the importance of this move. I don't blame them, Wien is part of the German speaking world, and so the local importance of the city and its habits is really only appreciated by German speakers like myself and not the general readership. Let me just say - this is very significant indeed.

Historically, Wien has always been to the german speaking world what Carthage was to the Greeks - the centre of learning and the export of culture and ideas. Although its importance waned somewhat in the early 20th century, the Cold War and events since has cemented its position as the premier exporter of German business innovation.

So, instead of reading Wien in the summary above, in a few years you can read it as "Germany and Austria". My bet is, such is the influence of Wien, that a successful Linuks experiment will "trickle down" into emulation by a whole host of cities throughout the german speaking world. Linus deserves a pat on the back for his bargaining prowess.

Re:Difficult to overstate the importance of this

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, your comment could start a long flamewar in any german speaking forum, just put in Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg or Heidelberg for Wien and see what it does to you...

Austria is seen a bit backward a at least in northern Germany.

Re:Difficult to overstate the importance of this

[tootlemonde]

Wien has always been to the german speaking world what Carthage was to the Greeks - the centre of learning and the export of culture and ideas.

This analogy is odd since Carthage wasn't a Greek city, competed with Greece for dominance in the Mediterranean, and isn't known as a center of culture.

Perhaps you meant to compare Vienna and Athens.

Re:SO FUCK OFF TO RUSSIA COMMIE

[henrywood]

You get such a high class of debate on Slashdot!

You mean like a snowball ?...

[Gopal.V]

The snowball down the mountain has been used to explain how the popularity of a product increases very quickly after a particular percentage of users.

A Wiener and proud of it

[mailuefterl]

I'm a Wiener and proud of it, even more so because of WIENUX

Dubya, is that you?

[quarkscat]

"Choosy Italians Choose Linux! "

Dubya, is that really you on the other end?

Vienna is in Austria. You know, sorta like
Germany, but with less touristy places...
Okay, okay. Where Arnold the Governator is
from. Venice is in Italy -- the western end
of the Silk Road. Okay, okay. The city that
is sinking into its own sewage system.

Jeez, Dubya, open a geography book once in
a while, okay? Geography -- that's the study
of places and how its history and culture is
different (like Connecticut and Texas). Okay,
okay. Book -- Those kinda square things with
writing on the inside. A whole bunch of them
are used like a wall covering where you live.

(And our lesson is done for the day. Now
go outside and play some golf on the moors.
Dress warmly, Dubya, 'cause it gets cold and
damp in that place your at now (Scotland).)

OT: But stuff that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations to London on their successful bid to host the 2012 Olympics!

So wait.

[/dev/trash]

Steve Irwin is yours???
+++
Husi is where's it at

Re:So wait.

[mabinogi]

no, I said _famous_, not moronic ;)

Title should be...

[kirk26]

City of Vienna takes a step in computer evolution. How are they even to going to work?

Huh?

[dustmite]

There's no conflict at all here - users DO have choice, and all the GP said is, he thinks they should choose Linux and not choose Microsoft, based on certain valid technical and economic considerations. What's the problem exactly? Are you trying to imply that anyone who expresses an opinion on which they honestly think would be the best choice must inherently be making a purely ideological decision? That a truly unbiased person would always only express totally neutral opinions? Are you trying to subtly manipulate us into actually thinking that we should avoid expressing any non-neutral opions on the basis that they inherently indicate an ideological bias? Yes, that's exactly what you're doing, in which case you're just a sophisticated troll, because your 'reasoning' is totally specious.

I think it's more accurate to say the battlecry has gone from "users should have choice" to "users should use the best tool for the job, which I think is (X)". I really don't see the problem with that, technical people are asked to make such decisions every day in companies all over the world, and the whole idea is not to be "neutral" and "unbiased" - the whole idea is to determine what the 'best tool for the job' is, and that's all we're doing here..

Australian's even need to import wit

[NZheretic]

New Zealand Prime Minister Muldoon on the migration of New Zealanders to Australia in 1978 : "Trans-Tasman migration is great. It raises the IQ on both sides of the Tasman."

IBM is mighty pissed off

[Anonymous Coward]

>the city of Vienna, Austria was looking to move
>at least a portion of its desktops to Linux.

I think the city of Wien was Tivoli based.

Who's next?

[Snefru2]

Parisux?

Re:Who's next?

[imroy]

Aw, go easy on the Parisians. They just lost the Olympics to a country that makes the worst food in the world :)

Re:Who's next?

[Anonymous Coward]

yes she does :-D

Re:Who's next?

[egypt_jimbob]

Paris sux? yes, yes she does.

Munich status?

[gumpish]

So does this mean the Linux conversion has gone well in Munich?

Younux

[HumanTorch]

Younux, Wienux, We all nux for Linux

Ha ha

[Kludge]

Fedora Core is just a pile of shit compared to Ubuntu, as there is no easy way to update from, for example, FC3 to FC4.

That's funny, I just updated to FC4 from FC1 without a hitch. It runs great.

I think you don't know what you're talking about.

Re:IBM is mighty pissed off

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the city of Wien was Tivoli based.

No, that's Copenhagen.

If we had a story everytime a City choose MS...

[ShyGuy91284]

We'd have a lot of stories....

Re:If we had a story everytime a City choose MS...

[sloanster]

... and if we had a story everytime a city chooses linux we'd have a lot of stories too.

But Vienna is huge. You have no idea what it means: Linux - it's not just for wieners anymore!

Users shouldn't have a choice

[Per Abrahamsen]

Organizations should have a choice. Choosing a mixed setup is rarely wise because of the support cost. Going for a pure Microsoft, Apple or Linux solution wlll almost always be preferable.

Of course some flexibility is a good idea. If the user has special needs, knows what he is doing, and understand that he will not get support from the IT center, he can choose another platform than the organizational standard.

What about Florence and Venice

[HWheel]

I appreciate your information. Any explanation why Florence is "Firenze" and Venice is "Venezia" in Italy?

Simpsons, is there anything you haven't covered?

[IvyMike]

Principal Skinner: Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
Martin: And a sloppy speller, too. The preferred spelling of `weiner' is W-I-E-N-E-R, although E-I is an acceptable ethnic variant.
Principal Skinner: Good point.

They are called "Frankfurter" over here

[ex-geek]

We call them "Frankfurter" over here. We are in general proud of the fact that they were invented over here in 1805. (Hey, that's 200 years! Let's party!) But we are not so happy about everybody calling them "Wiener".

Living at the birthplace of a widespread and popular food - good
Having your cultural background identified with sausage - not so good

Re:They are called "Frankfurter" over here

[ex-geek]

Having your cultural background identified with sausage - not so good

Not to mention the other thing.

Re:They are called "Frankfurter" over here

[arose]

Having your cultural background identified with sausage - not so good

What about the residents of Frankfurt you insensitive clod?

Re:They are called "Frankfurter" over here

[ex-geek]

What about the residents of Frankfurt you insensitive clod?

You see, this is our masterplan. As soon as they stop refering to these sausages as "Wiener", we will cease to call them "Frankfurter". Instead, we will use the name of another city. Rinse, repeat until the whole world is cleansed of Wiener Würstchen. *insert evil laghter here*

Tux, when will you realize?

[RSevrinsky]

Vienna waits for you...

Errata

[LPetrazickis]

* yes, we are the country with the tazmanian devils

Actually, Tasmanian Devils live in Tasmania, an island province of Australia just to the south of the main landmass. They shouldn't be in New Zealand at all.

*I'm not really a New Zealander

It shows.:)

Parent is a Troll

[LPetrazickis]

Historically, Wien has always been to the german speaking world what Carthage was to the Greeks - the centre of learning and the export of culture and ideas.

Actually, Carthage was a Phoenician city perpetually at war with the Greek colony of Syracuse. It was not renowned for learning.

Linus deserves a pat on the back for his bargaining prowess.

Linus is, quite obviously, not involved with this. He's a programmer and an architect, not a marketer.

...a successful Linuks experiment will "trickle down"...

There is an 'x' in the German alphabet, so this is an intentional misspelling.

Re:Parent is a Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

John, I swear to god if you call one of my posts a troll again im telling mom youre mucking about on her laptop instead of doing your homework.

They've got licvences until 2008

[ex-geek]

Im just coming from the economical side

So does the Viennese governement. They'got Windows licenced until 2008. That's why they don't have to make a complete switch to Linux at once but can gather experience in the mean time.

In Munich the licences ran out much earlier, which is why they switched ahead of us. Expect to see the same procedure in many other bureaucracuies soon. Licence runs out -> switch to Linux

Re:wouldnt piss on servers if they were on fire

[DECS]

The cliche of "not pissing on someone if they were on fire" suggests, colorfully, one's disdain for someone else, to the extreme of not wanting to help them out even insultingly, in the worst emergency.

When you use it to apply to "admins" not "pissing on a linux server" if it were on fire, you lose the effect of the expression.

I imagine nobody would pee on a server in flames. First off, it wouldn't really help, but even more so, it would likely fry your wiener (to bring this back on subject).

And as long as I'm playing grammar nazi (no offense Austria!) here's some reminders:

- a lot is NEVER alot
- if you can't remember which to use, "its" is generally safer than "it's" because if you use no apostrophe when you should have, you just look lazy, but if you error on using it when you shouldn't have, you look stupid.

Is that WIENUX on your laptop?

[Reverend Johnny X]

or are you just happy to see me?

NJ State Police left an open access point too.

[KillerBeeze]

I was driving by a state police barracks one night with net stumbler running on my lap top (I have an external antenna too) And found a wide open 802.11b access point. The police don't even lock things up, what makes you think that the average home user is going to secure his/her wireless access point....

Re:wouldnt piss on servers if they were on fire

[william_w_bush]

a: i was lazy and not trying to give a clear and cogent argument as much as paint a colorful picture

2: my kde keyboard settings went weird with intl keymaps, so parenthesis and apostrophes dont code properly, and /. ignores them, sorry. should be ok after a reboot now.

"Basic users"

[SgtChaireBourne]

"Windows" itself is not a single operating system, especially from the point of those easily confused end users you refer to. Think about it. If you're going to change from Win95/WinNT/Win2000/WinXP/Win2003/etc it's not like you can keep all the programs, configurations and user interfaces the same while upgrading the operating system or kernel underneath. The whole thing changes including interface behaviors.

In short, it's not as simple as just dropping a new kernel or new OS under KDE.

Most MS-Windows users I've talked with, those who don't actually sell MS software or develop for it, can't stand the changes between versions. They put up with it because Bill's catamites in their so-called IT department says for them to and their bosses back up the so-called IT department. If their IT departments and bosses threw as much weight behind putting out KDE on all the desktops they'd get used to that, too. But in the future, the IT department could then drop a new kernel or even a new OS behind KDE without disturbing the users. It's a rare bird that uses more than e-mail, web, and productivity tools.

Get lost brad

[Anonymous Coward]

I finished ok? so i can do what I want and mom said it was fine so go tell her and i'll tell her about the cigaretts i found under your bed. jeez you're such a weasel