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China Plans Deep Impact Mission
Comatose51 writes "China is planning its own Deep Impact mission. The goal of the mission, unlike the exploratory NASA project, is to push potential life-ending comets or asteroids away from a collision course with the earth." From the article: " The third nation to launch a man into space has lofty space ambitions that include putting two astronauts into orbit this September and eventually sending up a space station and even a manned mission to the moon."
In addition to the comet mission, they are going to build their fourth space launch center , and they've also announced plans to militarize their space program.
I wonder, when they finally land someone on the moon, will they say "We came in peace for all mankind"?
New Star Trek Film Planned by Fans
Happy Friday!
NASA had visual, but I am hoping China can one-up NASA and put a microphone onboard so we can hear the exciting sounds of a space collision. Did George Lucas do this?
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With 2B people to feed, China has much more pressing issues that saving the Earth from comets. And messing with cometary orbits is too risky for even space programs with decades of cautious experience.
This project is a cover for military operations in space. Maybe they're researching how to divert a planetoid into the Earth, potentially more powerful than any nuclear weapon. Maybe they're just launching weapons into Earth or Solar orbit.
These operations are exactly why the US should have led for banning all space weapons when we had the unchallenged political, economic, technological and military status in the 1990s. Instead we've funded unworkable Star Wars missile defense systems for billions of dollars, opening the door for every other country that wants to knock out Jesse James to be the #1 gunfighter in the East and West.
--
make install -not war
All these "deep impact" projects are starting to freak me out. Does the One World Government know something we don't?
It would seem that the data gathered would be critical to any future mission to comets that intended to push a comet off course.
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." --Napoleon Bonaparte
is to find a comet that is actually going to impact Earth...
God Fucking Damnit
Maybe these tests are really just a way nations can slightly tip their hands regarding their black-project space-weaponry research, without directly acknowledging such undercover programs.
Has China begin using rockets they have designed, or are they still using Russian technology?
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Well at least Russia isn't in charge of this, because in Soviet Russia asteroid blows you up.
Ahhh, the advantages of not having a proper modern legal system
If it was Europe trying to pull this shit, we'd have a second defendant!
The unofficial
look forward to a nation finally putting a man on the moon, instead of faking it! :)
China has been doing a lot of posturing about space lately. Personally, I think it's just the comunist party making an attempt at trying to look like they are a competent government rather than the pack of stupid greedy thugs that they are.
However, I just had an interesting thought. Isn't this sort of a dual use bit of research? While diverting comets and such is a grand and generous bit of science, wouldn't the ability to drop a fifty ton chunk of rock on your enemy's capitol be quite a weapon? A 'Star Wars' missile defense systems would be useless, and it would make the third generation MIRV cruse missile nukes that we have look like fire crackers. There is even a plausable deniablility factor, if you just want to fuck with someone. ("We are very sorry about the the rock that leveled Washington, but these things happen...")
MY GOD, WE HAVE A GAP IN OUR AERSONAL OF GIANT SPACE ROCKS!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
...than an arms race.
What if they don't find a US flag up there?
China's mission would instead be mainly aimed at protecting the planet from being hit by a comet or asteroid, Mr Zhao said, referring to the kind of doomsday scenario shown in the 1998 film "Deep Impact", for which the US spacecraft was named.
It was NOT named for the movie, in fact the project was named before the movie was made.
That the comets that might _potentially_ hit the earth are the most stunning to view from earth. Diverting them away from earth takes away some awesome home astronomical viewing. If they are going to do this, they should only divert ones that they can certainly establish would pass too close for comfort (which might happen once or twice in a hundred years).
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
An estimate of the orbital delta-v for Tempel /Deep Impact suggests a velocity change of only 1 cm/hour (I can't vouch for the math). Assuming we would need to nudge a threatening body by 1/2 the diameter of the Earth (from direct hit to grazing pass-by), we would need to know to hit a Tempel 1-sized body in advance by over 73,000 years. This type of mission would work 10 years in advance for much smaller bodies (say less than 350 m in diameter). Even these estimates assume a perfect strike by the deflecting deep impactor -- a margin of error or the need to push the object several Earth-diameters further reduces the potential for this method.
Kinetic energy is not the way to go. Deep Impact delivered only about 4.5 kt of TNT. In contrast, a good sized thermonuclear weapon could deliver thousands of times that energy (even taking into account the relatively poor conversion of 100 megatons yield into delta-V).
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
A lot of innovations came from the missle defense research, but many remain classified. Also, keep in mind, the projects were seriously underfunded from the getgo, recieving fractions of what was requested.
Now though, the US has stepped into another cold war. We'll be pushing forward on these types of things, very soon.
From the blurb: From the article: "The third nation to launch a man into space has lofty space ambitions that include putting two astronauts into orbit this September and eventually sending up a space station and even a manned mission to the moon."
I'm pretty sure you mean taikonaut (unless the Chinese are really sending Americans into space...)
Why do they hate Mecca?
China's not happy since they are the fireworks experts. They don't want to be outdone.
;^)
I kid.
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
I wonder which way China will go with their visions for space.
Will they follow through and actually do what they claim.
Or will they take the US route (which we'll call "Fred") where we talk grand plans and visions...then we cut funding for other projects that are already successfully producing major scientific discovery, and finally we then cut funding even more and adapt 40 year old technology that never lived up to its original expectations in the first place. And then when it fails we propose gigantic new visions we don't intend to follow through on, so that everyone forgets about the failure of the earlier project.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
more like it turns into a spaceship and flies toward an icy moon of a gaseous planet (only to attract a giant plant like fish thingy that causes the chinese-onauts to all die)
...We have SDI!
Don't trust anyone under thirty.
the real irony comes when their first test to see if they can "nudge" a comet accidentally sends the target spiralling towards Earth ;)
...since aliens are going to start placing interplanetary real estate off limits starting in 2010.
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You're not wrong about China having an ulterior military motive for their space work. A nation (even an Axis of Evil Rogue Nation) has a right to defend its interests against a perceived threat. Of course China has military uses planned for their extraterrestrial technology.
But you're completely wrong in thinking that we could say or do anything to stop China from doing anything they really want to do. Had we shown "leadership" and pushed for a ban on military uses of space, they wouldn't have listened anyway.
We will have weapons in space because we have weapons wherever we go. We are a violent, overconsumptive, power-hungry race.
Get past it. You'll sleep better.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
...that The Gipper was buddy buddy with China and made an under the table deal with them to *not* pursue any SDI projects until after Ronnie cashed in his chips.
Then they'll have to race Chevron!
...which out to be a fair fight. I'd put a multinational oil conglomerate up against the world's largest tin-pot dictatorship anyday.
Don't trust anyone under thirty.
Why do I suspect the official spin on this is going to be a thin coating of science wrapped around something like "They may have landed men on the moon, and probes on Mars, but we SAVED THE WORLD FROM FLAMING DEATH!"
China plans Deep Impact Mission... into US.
The world is round
Only genius of China nation think so clearly for future requirments of Grate Space missions.
The Nasa needs to play catch up games now, I beleive. (If try the copying of ideas, then perhaps you will find...)
I suggest you read Slashdot
Wooohoo ! Too late chinese bastards ! We got on this comet first !
I couldn't even figure out how to mod that. Great job.
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
Actually, you'd be doing us all a favor if you'd launch tards who like to hijack Slashdot threads to make inane, unnecessary, and idiotic political comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the story in an attempt to make themselves feel empowered that they can make such bold and brazen statements as though people really care about their mindless rants!
Enjoy your trip.
Idiot troll.
Just imagine:
One big label on earth:
"Saved By China"
Why is this flamebait?
/. there are PC editors, working on creating their own senseless Utopia.
It's ALL TRUE. The guy gets modded down for speaking the truth?
Good heavens. Even on
Live free, or Die.
I thought NASA exploded the comet to prevent future collisions too ??? or did they do that just for fun?
What does your Credit Report look like?
Jees! Soon they'll put a colony up on the moon of their criminals, and then they'll invent a supercomputer named Mike that unbeknownst-to-them becomes sentient and helps plan a lunar revolution, and throws down dozens of rocks!
Those dang Chinee!
After all, nudging a comet with enough accuracy to hit a point on the earth would take unheard of mathematical precision, requiring millions of skilled... oh, wait, never mind...
--- Pork is not a verb.
Too late, it's already started.
Instead of talking about the actual technology, people are worried about those evil Chinese!
Can anyone tell me how they can be sure that by changing the trajectory of a "near miss" comet, they aren't forcing it into the path of another orbiting body? Couldn't such a collission potentially see the comet coming at us for real this time?
Basically what I'm saying is, leave well enough alone.
Deep Impact released energy equivalent to only 4.5 _tons_ of TNT, not 4.5 kilotons.
I've lost count of how many times I've seen this mistake made.
Before this achievement, many will laugh...
When it's done..there's only two possibility, especially from the western civ:
1. Amazed.
2. Not Amazed and blame China's success on their own asian researchers for not understanding the English word "Confidential" or "Top Secret" thoroughly.
Everyone knows they did it to screw with horoscopes.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
As many resources China has aimed at the island, who need comets.
People like you are why your country is now known as the United States of (Insane) Agression.
Going by the quality of goods I get from the local 99 cent store, all of which are made in China, all I can say is that if China were to help humanity survive by knocking away an incoming asteroid, let's all hope they don't knock it into Earth instead.
A Mexican astrologer is suing China for disrupting the natural order of the Universe.
Actually, the sneaky thing would be to aim a tiny comet or fragment thereof in such a way as to take out "accidently" an appropriate city of their political enemy. It would work as part of their secret warfare strategy.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
...but they put out one hell of a buffet for $5.95...
how do they do that...?
The US will enter the war, destroying China's coastal cities. China will counterattack Hawaii and the Phillipines and possibly L.A.. The US responds by destroying the remaining Chinese major cities.
What remains of China descends into primitive chaos. The US debt to China is forgotten - there is no one left to pay (no banks, no government). China breaks into 35 provinces ruled by warlords. Chinese people migrate westward toward Russia but are fought back by the various republics and Russia. Billions of Chinese starve to death.
The US remains dominant for 500 years. Taiwan becomes the center of Chinese civilization.
Why aren't the Chinese getting involved with ISS? Or are they? If not, who's being the stick in the mud - NASA or the Chinese? It seems terribly wasteful to ignore existing infrastructure.
As 99% life forms died from radiation and nuclear winter, who cares the comet?
BTW, what makes you hate Chinese so much that you even want to commit suicide?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
"What a coincidence: it went off target and smashed into Taiwan. One in a million, eh? So sad. Eggrolls anyone?"
Table-ized A.I.
Kim Jong Il is also planning a Deep Impact mission which will utilize a nuclear missile to find out what Tokyo would look like if it were struck by a nuclear missile.
"The Chinese don't need a rocket: they can stand on each other's shoulders." :)
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Is it's heading for some rather nasty bumps in the road. Environmental problems are a major one. The polition problems are becomming not only a problem to quality of life, but to industrial uses as well. You can pollute land and water to the point that it's not even useful for factories, and this is happening.
Poverty and education are other major factors. Despite the data cited by another reply, China is very polarized right now. Alone the eastern seaboard in the major cities, many people are seeing a great deal more wealth. However for the vast majority of China, the pesants, poverty is rampant, healthcare is minimal, and education is near non-existant.
Now, people might note the similarities to the US Industrial Revolution, and they'd be right. These problems are not insurrmountable ones. However to think that China's economic growth will continue unabated isn't realistic. They are going to have to divert resources from growth to solving these kind of problem eventually, or face worse problems in the future.
These problems are also made more difficult by the nature of the Central Commitee. They are a very focused group, and a very powerful one. This means that when they focus their attention on something, and thus a large amount of China's resources, things can be done quickly, but it also means that if they aren't paying attention to a problem, little gets done and they aren't all that good (relitive to many other industrial governments) at multi-tasking.
Plus they have some problems in dealing with realities they don't like. Partially because of their control over the media and thus the "truth" that reaches the people, they have a tendancy to want to believe that if they don't like something, it isn't true. Both AIDS and SARS were like this. They didn't want to acknowledge them as problems, and so nothing was done, until it became a real problem, then they were forced to deal with it when things were worse.
So while there isn't much doubt China is going to be a powerful player on the world scene, perhaps more powerful than the US, I wouldn't paint it to be a situation that's all roses. They face some serious problems in the future, and that is going to have a serious impact on their economy.
first to free native american before you try to "liberate" people around the world.
This sounds familiar...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(Ste phen_Baxter)
I don't know about everyone else, but when someone else says they plan to "move comets" while at the same time saying they are going to militarize their space program (see first top rated comment in this thread), well that stops and makes me think a little about what the two mean together.
:-)
Especially when the title is "Deep Impact" yet they don't plan to crash INTO the comet but to move it INTO... some other target? Perhaps a military target?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I would imagine one of the first things they build on the moon is a good Chinese restaurant.
Due to the unknown mass, irregular shape, partial breakup in the atmosphere, and lack of precision control, it would seem to be difficult to target the reentry to a specific CONTINENT, let alone the desired CITY.
You could end up dropping the thing on yourself as easily as hitting your enemy.
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The US will eventually fall behind in the area of manned space exploration, because the Russians and Chinese don't need to answer to the public if something goes wrong, and they are generally more risk-tolerant. I admit, though, that this doesn't seem too original.
they wouldnt need a ladder thats for sure
Too bad it looks like comets are made mostly of fine powder. Trying to move that with force applied at a small point might not work so well.
With the Live 8 concerts spotlighting poverty in Africa, I think they forgot about China's poverty.
I read recently China has 26 million rural peasants living in poverty...they see the cities getting richer while they are going nowhere, and they are getting angrier by the year, and maybe slowly realizing that communism is the biggest flop ever foisted on humanity...even getting Taiwan back into the fold, let alone a decent space program, would not probably make these people feel any better about their plight.
The internet is showing the Chinese people how the rest of the free world lives, and the ChiCom government will not be able to stop their people with censorship much longer.
We might not see a totally free China in our lifetime, but sadly we will probably see Taiwan taken back and another Tianenmen Square-style massacre in our lifetime (provided we actually find out about it if it happens).
The 2008 Olympics will be in Tianenmen Square...and I will not watch.
Chalupa
"That is from the CIA world fact book, admitedly the poverty line definition is probably different."
I love that CIA fact book. However, you are right to point out the 'poverty' is very different in the two nations. Impoverished Americans do not die of starvation. They die of heart disease because they are fat. An impoverished American is well fed but slightly malnourished. 'Well fed but possibly malnourished' sure as hell is not the definition of impoverished in China. The definition of poverty is defined by the government, and a government as obsessed with image as the Chinese government is going to set definition of poverty such that few make it in, so you can display figures like that the US has the same poverty rate as China. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if China pegs its definition of poverty such that the percent always matches the US.
Next, you need to realize that China has so much growth because its population is so damn poor. When you have 1.3 billion people and most of them don't have TVs, much less DvDs yet... well, you are talking about a potentially huge market. However, once that market has been fulfilled, what is next? This is the part of the 'China is the next super power argument' that always baffles me. What on earth does China have that could possibly let their people become as wealth as the US and Europe? China has poor utilities, an amazing corrupt and bureaucratic government, and a xenophobic culture. China has nothing over the US and Europe other then that they are cheaper and have fewer environmental regulations. China can only remain cheaper as long as they are poor. If they are no longer poor, they have nothing to offer. US and to a lesser extent Europe will continue drain China and the rest of the world of their elite simply by offering up open societies that easily adapt to immigrants. China on the other hand is only going to receive immigrants from even more destitute neighbors (AKA North Korea) and will have a very hard time convincing a Europeans or Americans that China is the place to go for grad school - much less convince them to live there for the rest of their lives.
So, will the US be eclipsed one day? Sure. Will it be by a closed, inhumanly bureaucratic, xenophobic society? Hell no. India has a better shot then China because they at least have a system capable of changing itself. The EU could have a shot if it could get its shit together and stop cowering in terror at the thought of the culture of the individual nations being 'polluted' by immigrants (run France, here comes the polish plumbers to eat your culture!).
I'll believe that China is a super power on par with the US or the EU when hundreds of Americans due each year smuggle themselves in shipping crates in a desperate attempt to get the land of opportunity known as China.
I love this post. I honestly do. This is the poster child of the new Slashdot, where assertions replace fact, and are moded up for it. Once upon a time, ideas were exchanged here, and the flames and crap were weeded. Now it seems that crap just fertilizes more of the same.
.....
....>
Case in point:
"For example at the moment there is a sizable faction of the Republican party that spends its time talking about the need to start a trade war with China."
Really? Truly? Wow, I guess must be reading all the wrong newspapers etc. I have yet to encounter this idea from the current elected Republicans in congress. And it is from a SIZABLE fraction no less. How could I have missed this? It may be because I don't get most of information from Blogs, but instead rely on accountable press. Who knows?.
All I can say is in an older, more civilized Slashdot, you had to back up such spurious claims with many links to be moded up. Now, if you call Bush or America or Republicans bad, you get a seemingly automatic +2. In any case, I would love to see your source for this information. Please.
"According to the CIA world fact book China's economy is worth 7.2 trillion and is growing at 9.1%, the Us economy is worth 11.8 trillion and is growing at 4.4%. At that rate China overtakes the US in 10 years time."
As some may have learned in the dot com boom, looking at past events and drawing exponential trends tends to leave some heartache. The sky does have limit kids. If you go on to read the CIA fact book, and not just post the tidbits that make you sound smart, it says:
" China in 2004 stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US, although in per capita terms the country is still poor.
The leadership, however, often has experienced - as a result of its hybrid system - the worst results of socialism (bureaucracy and lassitude) and of capitalism (growing income disparities and rising unemployment).
From 100 to 150 million surplus rural workers are adrift between the villages and the cities, many subsisting through part-time, low-paying jobs....
Another long-term threat to growth is the deterioration in the environment - notably air pollution, soil erosion, and the steady fall of the water table especially in the north....
In short, the Chinese economy has improved over the low starting place that the great communist experiment had inflicted on its poor people. However, equalization will set in and it will face the limits/problems that the US and Europe face. Oh, and in the name of intellectual honesty, since I posted excerpts from the fact, here is the link so you can read the parts I left out, mostly to shorten the post some. They further highlight the limits.
Oh, and this is very good ad hoc attack:
"The US is currently facing the same problem that hit the British Empire. In the 1920s a bunch of politicians got into power who were really into the whole imperialism thing.."
Again, really? I watched, read, and discussed a great deal during the last election. I somehow missed the great debate on how the US should make and empire. In fact, no one even mentioned and may I suggest, even thought about becoming an Empire. Last I heard, the US still has a president who will leave office in 2008, and will not rule for life. The last I checked, the other territories that make up the fictional US empire seem to still have sovereignty, and are free to disagree with the so-called imperial US decrees. In fact, they often do, and make policies that run contrary to US wishes. For example, French seem to have this quaint notion they can do what they want, even against US interests. Not a very Roman like atmosphere, is it?
I do not wish to misinterpret the original posters intent. My understanding is that it was a justification of why China is investing so heavily into space and why it is ok if they include militarizatio
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
An H-bomb can be very clean. It lowers the yield though. Even if you make it slightly dirty, as is the convention, the half-life of the isotopes is relatively short. This is why the idea of fallout shelters came around, by staying underground for a month (3 at most), you really could outlast most of the radioactive isotopes in a regular H-bomb (not a cobalt bomb).
So as long as we hit the asteroid 3 months before it was going to hit the earth, the radiation by the time it hit here would be insignificant.
Honestly, the radiation probably would be immaterial even if we didn't get there 3 months in advance. The radiation from a regular nuke, spread across the entire planet (as the huge impact would do) would barely register against the natural level of background radiation on the planet.
China is plagued with proverty, political and human right problems. They should take care of these problems before planning any space mission. Guess what. Everytime a natural disaster hits China, it's not the government that spends money helping its people. It was the world aid. China is a joke.
Tanstaafl
ISS was massively scaled down from original plans (reference "Fred" in my first post). Something is regularly breaking down, we're dependant on another country to keep it supplied and get us there and back, its on a scaled-back crew roster now...
So, the involvement of other countries is just a necessary evil that needs to be purged soon? Yeah, those pesky foreigners, always meddling in our affairs.
Tell me, since when did the International Space Station become a US-only property?
Asswipe.
I read recently China has 26 million rural peasants living in poverty
The 2008 Olympics will be in Tianenmen Square...and I will not watch.
Chalupa
Thats fine, The 26 million number is likly true. The pverty rate in china is hovering at 10%. The US at 12%. So before you get all high and mighty, the US has not moral ground to stand on. The poor rural folk aren't as much an issue, since they do have food. Which make those poor rural folk better off then a large slice of the world. Tienimen was bad, Gautnonamo is not better. Terror and oppression are tools of the state, they are tools we wish to avoid here, but we do a piss poor job in atcually doing it. The chinese gov. commit some pretty horrible acts, so does the US and the USSR. This doesn't justify them. But you also then boycott any olympics in any of those countries as well to avoid being a hypocrite.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Russia/TsarBomba.h tml
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
for an impactor, it needs to be nudged so that it will be at escape velocity relative to earth as it grazes by.
Space stations as you say are useless for 'not having all the eggs in one basket' but full-blown colonies may not be. step one to full blown self-supporting colonies (fully self sufficient as in need to import nothing, but still do if it's cheaper than making it) is space stations. Kind of like historical ships: step one to colonizing the new world was ships. the ships themselves are useless as population sinks or as backup population, but another entire continent full of people is a nice thing to have.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
On one hand, I hardly see how a country that has so many other pressing issues that need to be addressed can feel proud about making claims that they, in all likelyhood, will not be able to fulfill.
...and finally, I undersand the need for China to undertake a "deep impact"-like mission. I mean if a life-ending astromechnical event is going to happen on earth, there's a very high probablity that China could be hit... ending the need for Nationalistic distractions.
Then again, I completely understand the need for distraction via Nationalism. Hell, it worked for the US during the 60s and 70s. We haven't been back to the moon since.
In the mean time, this should sufice: Thanks, China, for making cheap, crappy products for the world; your undervalued, disgruntled labor and complete lack of understanding of world economics is greatly appreciated... Good luck with the communism to "democracy" transition thing you got going.
The mission is to determine the chemical composition of the region of space known as "Washington, D.C." by smashing a large object into it at interplanetary speeds. It is hoped that spectroanalysis of the resulting gas cloud will be informative. One theory holds that there may actually be organic compounds in this area, which could help explain how life arose on Earth.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
How is Guantanamo "not better"? Please compare the number of people who died in each. Do you believe that there have been large-scale massacres at Guantanamo?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
It is dead in Russia, but not in China. Last time I checked, the Communist Party was still in power there.
"I guess something bad happened to your family back in china causing you to have a strong grudge against it?"
Perhaps he is a Tibetan, or perhaps he is a relative of the 30,000,000 or so Chinese civilians executed by Communist policies (at gunpoint or by government-ordered famine) in mainland China. That might piss him off a little.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
How is Guantanamo "not better"? Please compare the number of people who died in each. Do you believe that there have been large-scale massacres at Guantanamo?
Do you beleive that the loss of liberty of either the students in tiananmen or muslims in Guantanamo differ? The deaths don't occur directly in Guantanamo, having already happened in afganistan and Iraq. They are equivilent.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."