Windows Longhorn Beta Screenshots

An anonymous reader writes "A few screenshots of Windows Longhorn Beta 1 have surfaced on the net showing off many of the new transparency features, Internet Explorer 7 and Avalon or WinFX."

Comments

Longhorn more like Copland.

[__aavhli5779]

What a failure. How many more features will they lose before they just abandon it entirely.

Ooh-wee, eye candy!

Let me in on this!

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[HyperChicken]

Ooh-wee, eye candy!

They're just copying from Apple. ;)

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[ericdano]

seriously. Copying, but not doing a very good job on it. It lacks a certain.....um....style to it.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[HyperChicken]

Um... It was a general jab at Mac OS X being loaded with eye candy. Not so much a jab at Microsoft for copying the Mac UI.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[bmgoau]

You can put polish on a piece of shit, but you'll just end up with a shiny piece of shit.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[bmgoau]

But seriously, i say that because i was really actually looking forward to something new and dareing from microsoft.

They let me and themselves down.

Frankly it looks like Windows XP with a new UI and alpha tranceparancy.

Actually, come to think of it i cannot in words exspress my dissapointment. I don't hate microsoft (thats a mod down) but i'm starting to think they that why linux and mac zelots say is actually grounded by some evidence.

Common Microsoft, wheres the new File System, the, the sidebar with add-ins, the new user experience?

Please don't tell your customers we waited 6 years for a new desktop theme and background.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[hedge_death_shootout]

Don't joke with the Mac boys. They can't handle it. ;)

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[nutshell42]

Which is a good thing because I don't like half of Apple's styles

It's a hit or miss thing; I liked Aqua (it's getting kinda old, too many bad clones etc., but it was really cool when it came out), I hate brushed metal the widget style, but adore brushed metal the iPod style (i.e. iPod Minis rock) while I think that normal iPods look like cheap mice (Microsoft sold shiny white mice about ten years ago. Afaik they stopped doing that and that's a good thing). Mac Mini, Powerbooks good; iBook, iMac bad, etc.

With Windows even if I get bored of the shiny new looks I can switch back to Windows Classic which is perhaps the most unobtrusive look in existance.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[JonXP]

You gotta remember, you can change a whole lot that won't come out in screenshots. A good example is the difference between the 2.4 and 2.6 kernels in linux. Vastly different, but all a screenshot will tell you is they have a different version number.

However, 'just' a new UI and Transparancy actually required a rewrite of the presentation layer, that means most graphical programs (once they take advantage of it) will run much much faster, instead of the old fashioned GDI they used that had been around for years.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[Pecisk]

Yes, you did exactly that. People who wait for miracles...you know what happens to them.

Ok, it sounds more like rant and troll, but I want to explore more of this ground. Actually Microsoft's inability deliver something which they haven't bought from others (or stole) and what could be top quality (not only 'good enough') surprises me. There are lot of smaller companies, yet, they deliver excelent products.

But Microsoft with all that money they have can't deliver at least something which doesn't annoy their users. It is sad to see that people rant about Internet Explorer, Office, yet they are chained to them for various reasons - apps, support, etc.

I have stopped to be angry and annoyed to Microsoft some three years ago when drop them from my active used OS list. I can say - after that, life have never been better.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[ryanw]

Please don't tell your customers we waited 6 years for a new desktop theme and background.

By "WE" you mean "YOU". I jumped ship about three years ago and transitioned to Apple products. Since then I've been through several OS releases and lived through innovation and an excellent user experiance. How long are you going to keep waiting and watch innovative companies pass you buy?

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[popeyethesailor]

Frankly it looks like Windows XP with a new UI and alpha tranceparancy.

And I think that freaking rocks. Seriously. There's zero learning curve, everything's where you expected, just a few differences here and there.

The difference is in the plumbing. Doesnt Windows XP look almost identical to Windows 95? Yet if you suggest both products have the same functionality, you are sadly misinformed.

Longhorn will be to XP what XP was to 95. An in-depth architectural redesign, with the same familiar user interface.

Some folks like to stick with what they know. I'm not ashamed that I still use Sawfish, when there are so many whizbang window managers/DEs/kitchen sinks around. The same is the case with the Windows UI. I've tried almost all themes, visual styles, stardock, etc. but I still stick with Windows classic.

And I think that's the biggest asset of Microsoft. When they ditch the familiar Windows UI, people will eventually start migrating to other platforms..

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[Anonymous Writer]

Oh yes we can handle it. With just one button too.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[frostw]

Mate, your post has to be the biggest load of crap I've read on Slashdot for a long time (and believe me, there has been a lot of crap). XP was released in 2001. Even Windows 2000 came just one year before that. These two os's were fundamentally different, and a huge improvement to their old 95/98 cousins.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[jcr]

Microsoft with all that money

I keep seeing this come up over and over again. There is no correlation between funding and creativity. In fact, the better funded a company is, the less likely they are to take the chances necessary to come up with something new.

-jcr

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[daikokatana]

Have you ever tried buying a PC without Windows?

And what would be the problem with that? Every small computer shop I know will sell you a PC without Windows.

If they refuse, refuse to buy/pay and go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[It'sYerMam]

I'm amused by "that search thingie." Everywhere seems to be going on about desktop search and integrated search and semantic search, when I have had approximately 3 times in my entire computing life been in want of such a feature.
Is it only me that values a sensible directory structure, with descriptive filenames and so on? Because the only time I need to use the find command is if I have a specific file whose location I don't know, or perhaps need to find files newer than x in folder y.
I envisage these searching revolutions as passing completely over my head in terms of increased usability. If I know where something is, then surely it is quicker to go there directly than to ask something where it is, no matter how efficient its algorithm.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[d99-sbr]

While I do value a sensible directory structure, I am too lazy to maintain one.

In fact, sometimes it is not even possible to do this propely, as a tree structure generally fails to grasp the nature of the data you store in it. Should I keep my video files separate from my music files, or should I order them by creator, language, file format, date?

Tagging data and searching instead of sorting is simply a much more sensible idea IMHO.

Just like I consider Gmail to be a true godsend because it lets me tag my mail or just archive it however it wants to,
instant desktop search will be a huge selling point for me, probably THE reason to upgrade to Longhorn.

Re:Longhorn more like Copland.

[Slightly Askew]

When they ditch the familiar Windows UI, people will eventually start migrating to other platforms..

Bullshit. Microsoft could have a puke green background, chartreuse 20pt font, and nails on blackboard as the default beep, and still people would not migrate to other platforms. Maybe when the user interface requires roach clips connected to the nipples and plugged into the USB2.0 port, people will switch...maybe.

How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[scsirob]

I'm puzzled by the whole hoopla of transparancy. Besides being a 'cool feature', how does it help me in becoming more productive?

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[QuantumG]

Using some window managers on Linux as soon as you move the window it goes transparent. The result is that you only have to move the window a tiny bit to see what is under it. That saves you time, therefore increasing your productivity.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[icleprechauns]

Half the features on modern UIs don't increase productivity, and that includes OS X and other non-Microsoft products. People just like eye candy...

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[ericdano]

Perhaps true, but it does make the whole work experience more enjoyable. I use a Mac and a PC (XP). I seriously love spending time on the Mac. The XP machine is boring and dull. Does that make me more productive then? No, but I walk away from using the Mac without a headache.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi.

I agree with you that transperency is indeed a great deal of hoopla. That said, I can suggest a couple of things that might be of help to one's productivity. There aren't many that I can think of - be it a lack of imagination on my part or because I actually agree with you're point of view.

Having a transparent terminal running vim (or other editor window, e.g. a transparent emacs) hovering over your browser, PDF viewer, XML editor or some other documentation as you enter source code from it or run interactively in an interpreter. On most X window managers that support multiple workspaces, you can just switch between the two virtual desktops as you read and type - but this is annoying! Also the copy 'n' paste doesn't work for entering statements into an interactive interpreter session. You can c'n'p each single logical line as you go, but who really wants to do that?!

So, from this very unimaginative POV, I guess it is only of help to programmers such as many of us on /. For the everyday users, however, I think it might just be another way of doing a desktop without virtual workspaces (e.g. see everything you're doing on the one screen without visually impairing overlap).

None of this takes away from the fact that I agree with you that most of the 'transparency' gimmick is a load of bs.

Thanks.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[hilaryduff]

back in the old days, windows turned into just a 1 pixel border when you moved them, and solid window movement was a big new feature. progress, eh?

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Paradox]

Well, sometimes eye candy doesn't directly contribute to productivity, but helps reduce overall strain. For example, people used to think that shadowed window edges were "just" eye candy, but as you spend time in WMs that do shadowing, you realize it's a useful visual cue that keeps from obstructing other data on the screen.

Is it leaps and bounds better than a thin window border? No. Is it a small step in the right direction? Definitely.

Personally, I'll encourage all the iCandy that I can, because it drives people to make powerful display architectures. Without all the focus on visual glamour, Mac OS X wouldn't have Exposé, which I use nearly constantly and find to be superior to multiple desktops for many scenarios.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Calroth]

Half the features on modern UIs don't increase productivity, and that includes OS X and other non-Microsoft products. People just like eye candy...

As long as these features don't decrease productivity, why not have them? After all, given two UIs with the same productivity, one with eye candy and one without, I'd take the eye candy...

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[BorgDrone]

For example, people used to think that shadowed window edges were "just" eye candy, but as you spend time in WMs that do shadowing, you realize it's a useful visual cue that keeps from obstructing other data on the screen.

Another example is the 'genie' effect when minimizing/restoring windows. At first it looks like a gimmick, but it is in fact a very useful visual cue, it shows you where the window went so you can find it quickly when you need it back. Nowadays, when I use Windows, I get annoyed by windows just disappearing into thin air.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[spitzak]

You are right that transparent windows *could* have been done ages ago, just drawing the border is technically just as useful as transparency.

However these window managers did not remove the window that was being dragged, you still saw the opaque window, plus the moving rectangle. So it was not the same as transparency, nothing was revealed while moving windows.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[killjoe]

Well they do decrease productivity because they eat up ram and chew CPU cycles.

Personally I think GUIs make people less productive but I know I am in the minority in that regard. GUIs make things easier to learn but harder to use.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[venicebeach]

Yes. And seriously, I'm kinda tired of hearing this come up over and over again. Does it increase productivity? Jeez. I spend so much time on my computer I think of it like a second home. And is everything in my home there to increase productivity? I design my home so that I enjoy living in it, and so that I live well in it. It should be the same with computers, (not to mention buildings, cities, etc.).

For some reason it's accepted to choose furniture based on how it looks as well as how it works, but when it comes to computers you are being frivolous if you want it to look nice. Just imagine if every technology we have were built only with its most narrowly conceived function in mind. It would be like the whole world was made of those cookie cutter housing complexes. Maybe they're great for housing people, but don't they also slowly suck the inspiration out of us? Sorry, I don't want to live in one of those places.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Proc6]

I seriously doubt a server just sitting idle with a drop shadowed window and semi-opaque titlebar is going to be gobbling up "resources". It's not sitting there real time 3D rendering frame after frame on the CPU. I mean, minus the "Well if Microsoft codes it, it will." jokes, you know that won't be the case. The CPU will sit at 0% 99.999% of the time to just hold up the UI. Nice try at a slam though.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Aqua OS X]

Originally, Steve Jobs tried to justify transparency by claiming you could see if there was anything being obstructed by a window bar, menu, dialog box, etc.

Really, it was little more then "cool for cool's sake." Transparent interface elements have practically been eliminated from OS X. Menu and sheets are at around 98% opacity (almost solid compared to OS X 10.0), and the dock's boarder is transparent, but that's about it.

Transparent interface elements were causing major usability problems. It was hard to grab windows when multiple transparent window bars were layered on top of each other. Moreover, transparent elements were incredibly hard to read when they were drawn over text documents.

I could go on and on, but in short, it was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now. Microsoft should scrap this garbage on the default theme. I know it looks "cool" and some execs are probably attached to these stupid effect... but people will complain and they will be killed by sp1 anyway. There are other ways to make an interface hip and cool.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Angostura]

Sounds insightful ... but wait a minute; which half precisely?

The whizzy minimize effects?, the rotating cube effect when using fast user switching (on a Mac). Eye candy, nothing more? Maybe? but just perhaps this type of stuff provides useful visual cues that make using the machine just a little more intuitive ... you see one desktop rotate out of the way; you kind of 'know' it's waiting for you somewhere. the silly minimize effect; well it lets you know intuitively roughly on the screen where the minimized window has gone without searching.

The ripple effect when you 'drop' a dashboard widget? Doh you got me - eye candy.

You say "people just like eye candy". well maybe they do, maybe it make using the machine subjectively more pleasant in some way. Might that 'pleasant' interface not also aid productivity?

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Iffy Bonzoolie]

I've recently started reading a book called "Emotional Design" by Don Norman - who is some kind of HCI professor. From what I can tell so far, one of the basic tenets of the book is the idea that objects (or software) that are aesthetically pleasing put us (humans) into a better mood while using it, and actually increase our productivity while using them. People will often be happier and more comfortable using something that is actually harder to use than some alternatives if it speaks to them emotionally. Does transparancy fall into this category? Seems likely...

-If

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[word_virus]

Just imagine if every technology we have were built only with its most narrowly conceived function in mind.

Gah, it'd be like living in IKEA!

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Tim Browse]

but of course looks and works great on OS X.

Yes, but in a stroke of genius they screwed up that feature when they copied it (unless it's been fixed in later versions of OS X).

Also, didn't they copy user-switching? But it's alright because they gave it a 3D animation, so it was innovative ;-)

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Errtu76]

Not at all. If i minimize something to the taskbar and want to go back to it, i press Shift+Alt+Tab and i'm back in the program i just minimized.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[cowscows]

Yeah, that's something that you have to keep in mind about people. We're only as productive as our state of mind lets us be. There's been a number of articles over the past few weeks on /. about how IT people and programmers are working these ridiculously long work weeks, and how after 60 hrs, your productivity goes down, regardless of how smart you are, or how important your deadline is.

Plainly put, the bottleneck is hardly ever going to be the computer. Unless you're totally in the zone, you've got more stuff distracting you than transparency effects. If you spend so much time "in the zone" that all that is causing you serious time, well, spend one of your bouts of super-efficiency to create the perfect OS for yourself.

Efficiency at all costs is not a particularly natural human goal. I'd rather get 80% of what I'm capable of done and enjoy my life than make myself uncomfortable or even miserable worrying about that last 20%.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Durandal64]

Also, didn't they copy user-switching? But it's alright because they gave it a 3D animation, so it was innovative ;-)

Apple didn't so much "copy" as "implement correctly." XP's fast user-switching does not work if the computer is part of an ActiveDirectory domain or if some weird Novell software is installed. (Found that out the hard way fixing an ex's aunt's computer.) Also, if fast user-switching is enabled, the "Welcome" screen is displayed with a list of users regardless of whether you want it there or not.

A blogger on the MSDN blog gave the following two reasons as to why fast user-switching was not enabled on domains.

• How do you show all the users on the domain in the Welcome screen? You certainly don't want a list with 10,000 names in it. (Scroll scroll scroll.)
• How do you check whether a user has a password? In Windows XP, the Welcome screen merely tries to log you on with a blank password. If it works, then poof! you're in. If it doesn't work, then it displays the password prompt. This works, but it also generates a failed password event into your security event log. Many IT administrators have a passwork lockout policy, where if you get your password wrong more than N times, your account is locked. Blank password probing would result in locked-out accounts all over the company.

In other words, when developing XP, no one at Microsoft thought of "Gee, let's enable the username / password box for fast user-switching." As to the second point, I've got a better question. Why are blank passwords even an option? Every user account should have a password, period.

Also, XP doesn't actually leave the processes running when switched out. I think it dumps the contents of the user-space memory to disk, in effect "freezing" the user's session in suspended animation. Once the user switches back in, it's like nothing changed. At least that's how I understand it. If someone has specifics, please feel free to correct / elaborate on my comments.

Mac OS X, on the other hand, just starts a new instance of the login window. All processes from a switched-out user are still running. You can switch among domain and local users without any problems at all. You can also have a normal username / password login window if fast user-switching is enabled. Mac OS X will also store domain accounts under the "Other" option in the login window if a list of users is being displayed. So yeah, Microsoft crossed the finish line first, but like sex, it's not about who gets there first. It's about how good it is when you do get there.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[Jugalator]

I can confirm the second one, because I'm typing this on a Windows XP box, have just verified that the switch is on, and yet minimising and maximising windows (for several different apps, just to be sure) exhibits no perceptible difference to when the setting is off.

I can assure you the setting does work, so you must have a program running that overrides it, such as nVidia's nView desktop manager.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[mrchaotica]

Despite not being a fan of Microsoft, I have to admit that the blur filter on their transparent widgets is a really good solution for usability. It'd be nice if I could add a blur to my transparent Terminal window, for example.

Re:How does transparancy improve my productivity?

[drsquare]

The problem is, when you put a nice interface on your computer, eventually you get used to it and it stops being nice. You could use a horrible interface for 6 months, or a great one for 6 months, and in the end you'd be equally happy using either because it's what you're used to. All the pretty interface would be doing is chewing up resources and slowing you down. The only way to keep your computer looking nice (to you) is to keep upgrading the eye candy every few days or so, either with new themes or new special effects.

From TFA:

[Kethinov]

Windows Longhorn 5203 Screenshots

The article lies! There can't be more than a dozen screenshots in that article. Certainly not five thousand! :(

Re:From TFA:

[NTworks]

you misunderstoood.. 5203 is the projected release year for Longhorn.

Re:From TFA:

[NeuroManson]

No, it's clearly the retail price.

Re:From TFA:

[Nailer]

Windows Longhorn 5203?

Sure, I've got 5.2Gs free. *clicks the torrent*.

What?!?!

Screenshots!?!?

2002 wants its article back.

Re:From TFA:

[Kjella]

5203 is the projected release year for Longhorn

The poor chinese. They'll have to deal with it in just under 500 years.

Re:From TFA:

[ben_rh]

I hear it's an estimate of the number of levels deep this thread is destined to grow.

Copying Apple again?

[jtbauki]

Seems like Microsoft is doing what Microsoft does best. Copying other companies. Maybe that's an unfair statement, but man, I hate Microsoft =).

Re:Copying Apple again?

[Cloud K]

"Seems like Microsoft is doing what Microsoft does best. Copying other companies. Maybe that's an unfair statement, but man, I hate Microsoft =)"

But only Microsoft can 'borrow' from one of the greatest (visually) UIs on the planet and still manage to make it so... butt ugly :)

Re:Copying Apple again?

[killjoe]

Have any of those people started a "freedom to innovate" campaign and released dozens of press releases touting what innovative people they are?

By the way if you don't think free software innovates you are just plain ignorant of what's going on out there.

Re:Copying Apple again?

[killjoe]

"xen: sure. Microsoft has something similar. So does Novell and IBM."

They do? You don't even know what xen is do you?

"postgres: A great database. Show me the innovation over MS SQL, Oracle, DB2 or Sybase."

User definable operators, user definable aggregate functions, user loadable stored procedure languages, user definable types. That's just for starters.

"reiser3: Sun and IBM beat Hans by a mile and a few years."

Really? How do their file systems deal with metadata compared to reiser3?

"ruby on rails: Surely you jest."

Why no I don't jest. Makes ASP look like yesterdays turd.

"parrot: In perpetual alpha for what, 6 years? In the meantime Microsoft's .NET CLR has been out for five, and it actually works."

Even in it's alpha stage it has multiple dispatch and multiple inheritance. When will .NET have that?

"jboss: And Fleury innovates exactly where? By coming up with new and exciting containers that break across J2EE implementations?"

Yes, that's the definition of innovation.

"Well, that was fun."

Yes it was. It's always fun to see somebody who has no argument go into insult mode.

"Of course you don't. You're too busy seeing innovation where there is none."

It's obvious you have no idea what open source products are really like.

This is not the beta

[DigitlDud]

I can say with complete certainty that the beta is still under development and has not been released internally or to the public.

Re:This is not the beta

[MountainMan101]

I met my best friend's girlfriend yesterday. She works for a firm that sells embedded OS software. They've received their beta of longhorn. She didn't seem that impressed and she loves microsoft to the point of trying to convince me Linux (a movix disk) broke her graphics card.

Re:This is not the beta

[ednopantz]

It is the classic good enough today vs. great next week. Their market niche is good enough today and they know that. I wouldn't use it to run hospital heart monitors, but it is fine to run the hospital finance guy's pc.

Re:This is not the beta

[poot_rootbeer]

I can say with complete certainty that the beta is still under development and has not been released internally or to the public.

We can tell it's not the beta because they're not selling it for $199 at Fry's yet.

start to shut down

[smeagols_ghost]

Good to see you still need to click start to shut down.

I had great fun explaning that to my mum when she first used xp

Re:start to shut down

[Anonymous Coward]

Takes about 1 sec for me to reach around and yank out the power.

Re:start to shut down

[DraconPern]

Using that is so 2002, I use the power button. And yes, Windows does shutdown correctly when I do that.

Re:start to shut down

[Cloud K]

I think the reason your average Luser doesn't press that button, apart from having it drummed into them not to 5 years ago, is that its behaviour is so inconsistent. Sometimes it shuts down, sometimes it sleeps, sometimes it locks the machine up (yay for Windows' ACPI support)

Yet again I'd have to be an Apple whore and say that OS X wins on that one - one little window pops up asking you what you want to do.

Re:start to shut down

[SolidGround]

"Yet again I'd have to be an Apple whore and say that OS X wins on that one - one little window pops up asking you what you want to do."

Control Panel/Power Options/Advanced/"When I press the power button my computer"

Do nothing
Ask me what to do <- that's the one you want
Stand by
Hibernate
Shut down

You can debate the point of having your power button do different things based on user preference, but it certainly is a feature and Windows has had it for years.
Next time you think of pulling an "my X is bigger/better/hotter/... than your Y" you might want to verify that you're not just making an obviously uninformed statement.

Re:start to shut down

[AbRASiON]

I'm fairly certain this is something tech geeks say to impress other tech geeks.

I've been doing support for nearly 10 years now and I've come across the most retarded humans bad genes can supply - and not one of them has ever had a quibble with the "start" for shut down.

Start implies you're starting to do something - even if it's shutting down.

Re:start to shut down

[Cloud K]

No, I understand that entirely, and have used that option myself... but you're misunderstanding my point in your eagerness to flame me for hyping (slightly tongue in cheek) an Apple "feature"

My point is that there's a clearly visible choice - and sometimes (IMO) choice is actually a *bad* thing. Now, I know that's a very unpopular view on a Linux-biased site, but that's how I see it. Because in this case, some computer manufacturers set it to shut down, some set it to stand by or hibernate, some even have it ask. So as a person uses a computer at work or college, or uses a friend's machine, they won't know what'll happen. So they use the menu instead.

What would be better behaviour is if it just always asked, and to have it do something else by default (which let's face it, only a geek would really care about) required a small registry tweak instead.

Holy Shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Transparency! Tabbed browsing! A search bar in the browser! Brilliant!

And why the fuck exactly did recycling old technology take them this long?

Sigh..

[vansloot]

As a long time Linux user, I still always cringe when these articles come along. Can we at least keep the attacks on Microsoft original this time?

Re:Sigh..

[hilaryduff]

if you were a windows user, you'd understand why we hate microsoft!

Down already?

[aendeuryu]

Is the server performance a Longhorn preview as well?

Re:Down already?

[schestowitz]

Use the mirror which runs on a sane server:

http://www.networkmirror.com/JOdkEXG2eLXwsioX/www. flexbeta.net/main/comments.php%3Fcatid%3D1%26shown ews%3D13839.html

Re:Down already?

[ciroknight]

Wow.. after seeing the screenshots (and yes, I know there are a lot of comments already I know about that are like "OMG such a Mac ripp" but I'm not going to go into those right now... ), it actually looks like Microsoft could have gotten something right for a change.

In "Computer" (thank goodness they removed My, I've been doing that since Windows 95..), it shows a little percentage full box so that at a quick glance, you can get a good estimate of how much disk space you have left. If they floated a percentage over it, it would be better, but I liked that touch.

Re:Down already?

[cowscows]

Oh, come on...a glass trashcan? Like I want to see old gum stuck to the sides, mixed in with banana peels and crumpled up post it notes.

Slashdotted Already

[Joel Rowbottom]

"And in related news, Longhorn's webserver fell on its arse after 50 geeks attempted to look at the eye-candy simoultaneously..."

Microsoft's motto should be...

[Stormwatch]

"The technologies of today --- TOMORROW!"

(yeah, I said that joke before. Kinda lame, I know...)

Transparency Features

[Anonymous Coward]

"many of the new transparency features"

Some one has turned the transparency up too far. When I click the link I can't even see the website.

"Mirror"

[Nine99]

The screenshots are als on http://elliottback.com/wp/archives/2005/07/09/long horn-5203-screenshots/

Close Window 'X'

[m()p3s]

It appears that the closed window button (The ' X ', found in the title bar of each application window) has moved 15 pixels to the left.

Unfortunately none of the screenshots have any maximised windows but if the ' X ' button has moved for maximised windows as well then it will be the worst GUI decision EVER! Gone will be the quick hand flick up and to the right to close a window.

Using the 'infinite' screen real-estate in the corners and edges of the screen is very important but Microsoft continually abuse the said space and assign these areas as no-action spaces.

A truly terrible decision if it is the case.

Re:Close Window 'X'

[Sneeka2]

True. Has Microsoft done anything big to actually improve the usability since '95? The Start menu still has the same usability issues it had a decade ago (i.e. inconsistency with the apps it actually points to and general clutter) and the Taskbar is a usability horror if you've got a couple of dozen windows open. I think they had a bad start with the general UI and only made it worse and more inconsistent over the years. I mean, right next to the fancy glass effect (and yes, it looks rather neat), there are some buttons and elements that seem to have been copied straight out of '95 or '98. I wonder if systray tooltips still tend to appear behind the taskbar occasionally?

Why don't they give the whole thing a once-over and just do it right?
Oh, yeah, sorry, it's Microsoft...

Re:Close Window 'X'

[Zouden]

if the ' X ' button has moved for maximised windows as well then it will be the worst GUI decision EVER! Gone will be the quick hand flick up and to the right to close a window.

I doubt it... with winXP, the 'X' button on a maximized window isn't completely flush with the corner of the screen, but this is just graphically. In functionality, the button IS in the corner, thus utilising the infinite area.

Microsoft continually abuse the said space and assign these areas as no-action spaces.

Actually, this is one area that Microsoft actually do pretty good on. All corners use the infinite space (apart from the clock).

Re:Close Window 'X'

[terminal.dk]

But at least Apple uses the sides for menubar in the top, and apps bar in the bottom. It is way more important to use the borders than Microsoft ever realized.

They have not even invented hot corners for screensaver yet.

Re:Close Window 'X'

[jrumney]

Unless the main use of your computer is to surf porn at work, closing the window is not the functionality you want most easily accessible. The worst GUI decision ever was to place the Close button in the top right corner in the first place, though it does have the redeeming feature of being a couple of pixels in from the corner.

Re:Close Window 'X'

[TheRaven64]

The Start menu still has the same usability issues it had a decade ago

No it hasn't. Since Windows 2000 (and even more so in Windows XP), things in the Start Menu would periodically be re-arranged to help you find the one you wanted (or something). This completely destroys muscle memory, making the Start Menu significantly less usable.

The modern Start Menu has a much bigger set of usability issues than it did a decade ago...

Re:Close Window 'X'

[earthbound kid]

One of the problems with the Start Menu is that it never achieved what it set out to do, simplify application selection. In those days, Mac users were of course used to just going into their Hard Disk folder in Finder to launch applications, but given the way application are stored in Windows, in a sub-folder of "Program files" and mixed in with a bunch of .dlls and .ini and other inscrutable crap, it made sense (sort of) for Microsoft to make a simple place to list JUST the applications and not all the crap that 99% of the time users don't care about at all. (Of course it would have been even better for Microsoft to have also specified that executable files are stored in "Program Files" but support files stored away from them in some other folder, but whatever.) The trouble was that even though the Start Menu existed to be simple, it quickly became crowded because developers abused it for self-promotion.

Let's say I install application "Foo" from "Bar Corp." What do I want added to my Start Menu: the application.

What will end up in my Start Menu? We all know the answer: a "Bar Corp." folder with a "Foo" sub-folder which will contain "Foo," "Uninstall Foo" (in spite of the uninstaller being in the Control Panel!!!!!!), and "Foo ReadMe" (in spite of the existence of a Help file). Ugh!

Now, that's not totally Microsoft's fault, but it does still suck that without manual pruning Start Menus naturally become crowded with crap. Developer, developers, developers, eh?

Re:Close Window 'X'

[Cougem]

Actually the close window button is still in focus and pressable when the mouse is on the top right most pixel, regardless of the small border between it and the button.

Re:Close Window 'X'

[IainHere]

[After short pause to restart browser and find location in thread]

I can verify the above statement.

[Hangs head in shame]

Re:Close Window 'X'

[marauder404]

The vast majority of users don't use their computers frequently enough to learn little things like this, so sorting like that works for most of the population, who will continue to read every option from left to right, top to bottom. For advanced users, they should just drag-drop shortcuts to their most frequently used applications to the static launch space on the Start menu -- right below where Internet Explorer and Outlook Express usually sit. On my machine, it reads:

1. Firefox
2. Thunderbird
3. Cygwin Bash Shell
4. Emacs
5. Trillian
6. [separator]
7. [reordering icons]

This leaves me with my most frequently used applications very close (Start menu, then hit the first letter of the application; sometimes twice if I have more than one that start with the same), exactly as I left them, and keeps the other ones that I use occasionally on a short list ready to go. I rarely expand the full set.

Server is toast

[baadger]

"There is a problem with the database that is preventing the site from working.

An email has been sent to the administrator notifying them of the problem. Please try again later."

...and their e-mail server will be ready in a minute.

Mirror:
http://www.networkmirror.com/JOdkEXG2eLXwsioX/www. flexbeta.net/main/comments.php%3Fcatid%3D1%26shown ews%3D13839.html

MirrorDot

[emcmanus]

http://mirrordot.org/stories/38d3ca8d0f1450ecd904c fee28fb683c/index.html

Cool!

[SolitaryMan]

"The page cannot be displayed" looks cool! Since it is the page which explorer visits most often it is very important to make it look cool.

And I'm happy to see that cmd still doesn't show directory names properly.

GO Longhorn!

Re:Wow ... (not!)

[DigitlDud]

If it was the Doom 3 of desktop engines it would be pitch black and the mouse cursor would be a flashlight.

to those who are still looking for pics...

[Atilla]

mirrordot is still happily serving it up here.

Administrator

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to see them running as Administrator for that 100% secure feeling.

(Or should it be "Nice to see them running as ADMINI~1"?)

rofl

[Anonymous Coward]

*rofl*
Did anyone elso notice the open "linux noob" webpage in the taskbar in the last 2 pictures? :D

more screenshots

[chrisxkelley]

Here are some more screeenshots that I found because the oother link isnt working for me

http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/

I think it looks alright, but the transparency thing really doesnt seem like that big of a deal. As far as i know, there still havent been any major improvements except for IE 7.0 (and i am counting on firefox/safari to still be better). As for the other graphics, goood job Bill, you are finally starting to catch up to macintosh! NOT.

i heard another rumor that they might be taking the my out of my documents, my pictures, etc so it will just be 'pictures, documents, music' etc etc... dont know how accurate it is though.


mac will still prevail, especially since i expect a new OS release from them by the time longhorn is out (most likely not until 2008 because they are always so late at releases)

Wow -- way to go Microsoft! I'm blown away

[l0ungeb0y]

Now, screenshots aren't a fair or accurate way to judge an OS and User Experience... but I have to say, if the article was titled Bored 15 year old creates Yet Another Windows theme, I sure as hell wouldn't know the difference.

While the UI skin look nicer than XP IMHO, looking at the dialogues and options/settings ... it's the same as XP ... just a few more items thrown in as far as permissions and security. So what exactly has Microsoft been up to for the last few years? This is the mind blowing, paradigm smashing rewrite? This is innovation?

What really gets me is the same old tired icons and maze-like system of hierchy-tree gui navigation to be found in all the system level dialogues. That really grabbed me... it seriously gave me the impression that this Longhorn thing was nothing more than a candy shell slapped on top of the same shit MS has been selling for years.

I think it's very telling how seamless the user experience will be when the microsoft.com address in pic #2 is returning a server not found error... but let's pretend that the computer was unplugged from the net and the user typed in the redirect parameters in the url by hand.

So I'm left scratching my head... if this was indeed a complete rewrite from the bottom up as MS promised, then why the complete similarity to XP/2000/98/95???? Perhaps all their energy and focus was on real security considerations? Maybe that explains all the jettisoned features... Or maybe when they meant rewrite, they really meant pushing some code under the mat, swapping some API's out and splashing on a quick paint job oer the whole shebang to make the old look new again?

Of course, Longhorn is just XP with a new UI and added security with tighter .Net integration. What startles me is that it's taken years to get this far ... that does not bode well at all.

Re:Wow -- way to go Microsoft! I'm blown away

[DigitlDud]

There's lots of other visual effects that you don't notice from the screenshots. Like a subtle reflection map on the window frame that you notice when you move the windows around. And a glint of light that travels across the progress bars every few seconds. It's some really nice stuff, and they do it for free thanks to the 3-D desktop compositing.

But besides the effects the UI seems a lot more responsive than before. There's a centralized graphics server (it's not like X-Windows) that does all the compositing which can provide UI feedback even when the host program isn't responding. So you get a mostly responsive UI even when the programs aren't responding quickly.

Re:Wow -- way to go Microsoft! I'm blown away

[Coolnat2004]

Do you realize how long it would take to do a complete rewrite! Even with tons of people working on it, it'd take like 5 years! Oh, wait..

Re:Wow -- way to go Microsoft! I'm blown away

[balloonhead]

That's microsoft's new enhanced security.

No internet connectivity.

According to Channel9,

[Zeus305]

Longhorn Beta 1 does NOT include the major parts of the new longhorn UI, such as Aero. The main graphics stuff isn't to be publically seen until Beta 2 in early '06, and thus it's not too exciting to argue about screenshots of it now.

Long file names support still b0rken

[Freggy]

The command prompt shows C:\USERS\ADMINI~1\ . Funny how they still have problems with long file names and case anno 2005.

Strange UI design

[Bob[Bob]]

A few things that strike me about the screenshots:

1. The Computer Management window has two sets of min/max/close buttons in the top right, one of which looks like Windows 95 stylee!

2. The Control Panel has a search box in the top right, straight out of Mac OS X Tiger. Or is it just the search box left over from a normal Explorer window? What does the search box do when you're looking at the Control Panel?

3. The menu bar in Internet Explorer is vertically even further from the top of the window that usual. Clearly Fitt's Law has been thrown out of the window, or maybe they really don't expect people to use the menus much anyway.

'My Documents' 'Documents'

[Makzu]

It's true, they are taking the "My" out of "My Documents" and friends. That "My" in there never looked right to me also.

Also, from the looks of that (still very ugly) command prompt in one of those shots, it looks like they're moving "Documents and Settings" to "Users." Which I think is a good idea also. 'C:\Users\(username)\Documents' is much easier to type than 'C:\Documents and Settings\(username)\My Documents.' Though '~' is still easier than both of those. ;)

Slashdotted, mirror URL

[Ilgaz]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

I think

[norppalaho]

they should release it as service pack 3 for XP.

Not exactly exciting from a UI standpoint

[Morganth]

Wow, I actually expected more, considering how much MS has been hyping the "new UI" of Longhorn.

In no particular order:

(1) Explorer seems to have taken a cue from PathFinder's directory browsing, a concept which has also been integrated into the GTK File Open Chooser Widget in the Linux world. Definitely a step in the right direction, but perhaps bundled up with a couple steps backward. Notice the new "My Computer", which sports all sorts of useless widgets everywhere, a mixture of task- and object-oriented interfaces, and more panes than one can possibly be expected to comprehend quickly. Typical Microsoft "toolbaritis," now applied to the file manager.

(2) Media Player continues to amaze in how far it distances itself from any UI sanity. Yet another argument for why toolkit consistency does not matter to normal users. File menu: gone, or just "annoyingly mouseover hidden"? I can only imagine what that menacing "Online Stores" button is for (can anyone say software-as-advertisement money?)

(3) Transparency: ooh, eye-candy. But wait, why does my desktop look like so many stained glass windows, who are, at the same time, light sources? Yet another Microsoft imitation gone bad. Notice how the borders of applications turn into transparent "stained glass" areas, serving to do nothing but make it more difficult to see, grab, and interact with the border of an application. For some reason, toolbar areas are also "semi-transparent," I guess just so you can make sure your graphics driver is working. Notice also how even when the eye candy features are enabled (transparent borders, shadows), Media Player refuses to comply! Stubborn lil' guy, aren't ya? heh heh.

(4) I'm utterly not surprised to see that Windows still makes use of dialogs whom cannot be resized, as in the displayed (and New) Copy Dialog. Yet another great "feature," as my 1920x1280 screen real estate can't even be utilized to show me the full directory name of a the path I'm copying from. Instead, I must make due with two halves of a path concatenated by three dots '...'

(5) Internet Explorer 7. Does this even need comment? What a UI disaster. First, the "toolbar" area is a different color than the rest of the application, which gives us some sort of Carbon/Cocoa hybrid in a single application. Then, the menubar exists below the tabs, implying that these options are on a per-tab basis, when this is clearly not the case (It's true sometimes, like in View Source or Save As, but not true others, like Work Offline or New Tab, which alter the whole application and not just a single tab).

In conclusion, Longhorn, at least from a UI innovation standpoint (but probably from others, too), looks to be the vaporware we were all expecting. Let's keep our eyes and minds pointed at where the real innovation is happening: in ANY of the alternative OSes, proprietary or Free. Maybe by the time Longhorn is released, we won't even need it anymore. We'll just send Microsoft a memo: "Dear Sirs, you can have it back."

Fonts

[Captain Nick]

I still cannot stand that default ms typeface, Trebuchet/Verdana? maybe? For some reason, it just doesn't fit, even with anti-aliasing and everything, just plain goofy. There has to be at least one UI designer over there who needs to speak up on the sloppiness/consistency of their UI.

Surprised nobody has asked yet...

[KylePflug]

When I first watched the Keynote where this OS was shown live, and now looking at the screenshots, I can't help but wonder: Won't these windows be impractical and ugly when maximized? I know I tend to do nearly all of my work in maximized windows, especially web browsing, and I don't think I could take surrendering the top fifth of my screen to some blurry amalgam of my desktop and ten underlying windows, each blurring the next, while the remaining 4/5ths are opaque.

Re:So um, are we doomed as Windows users?

[lifeblender]

No, you're not alone. It really sucks when applications, very specifically games, refuse to run on older versions of Windows. many of us have a lot of time and energy invested in those programs. Microsoft is not selling to people unwilling to pay them well, and they're requiring better hardware as a cheap way out of optimizing their code for speed.

This is to say nothing of how so many companies love using your boot-time to copy things into memory so that their load time appears fast. I'm looking right at Adobe, here. Microsoft is doing those companies a favor by requiring hardware good enough that their somewhat evil deceptions of speed are forgivable.

On the other hand, the learning curve for various linux distributions has changed in the last few years. Get yourself another hard drive, nothing fancy, even 20 gigs would be way more than enough. An old 8gig drive, even a 4gig, is sufficient. Swap out the hard drive, and install Debian. Instructions for getting the installation data are here, and instructions for installation are here.

There's only three tricky steps. First, you have to partition the drive correctly. For simplicity, make around 5% of the drive the swap space. Second, during the install process, you have to tell it what network card you have. This means loading the module for the right card. Generally, you can just try each module, and if it autodetects correctly and the name isn't obviously the wrong card, you're good. Third, when you are asked for packages to install, pick the simple method and choose the x-windows install. You will need to know what graphics card you have for this.

If all of that works, congratulations, you have one of the most powerful OSes on your machine now. Use 'aptitude' to pick more packages to install. For someone familiar with Windows, KDE might be a good idea. OpenOffice.org is a good alternative to MS Office.

The beauty of this is, if you screw up, fine. You've got some old harddrive screwed up. You didn't have to back up, and you didn't lose anything, because your windows installation is ready and waiting on your first hard drive. It was not even connected to the computer, so there's no chance of hurting it.

Of course, I'm paranoid, so I would say that you should make backups regularly as a matter of course.

I wouldn't throw all that Windows stuff out, as some of it can be useful, and the games are fun, of course. On the other hand, I dual boot, and I only use the Windows side for games. One of these days, I'm going to see if Guild Wars will work with WINE.

I wish we could get to other planets. Currently I'm following Richard Branson's funding for commercial space flight. But if you want to make the best use of your hardware, and not get screwed by software companies demanding more from you, try Debian. Now to find a spare hard drive to demonstrate for some friends...

UI Latency?

[marcovje]

One of the things I'm expecting from Longhorn can't be seen in screenshots.

I'd expect a significant drop in UI latency due to the new minimal standards for video hardware, much like Panther. (OS X 10.3).

(for the ones that missed that, Geforce3+ or comparative ATI required. From that, it seems that programmable T&L is what they are after)

Anybody has any hands on info? Does LH feel faster than XP?

Re:UI Latency?

[kawaichan]

the WinHEC build + my 9800pro with "glass" enabled runs slow as hell.

I know it was a pre-beta build but all the LH builds so far are pretty laggy once you enable the 3D effects.

It's a fake?

[GuyErnest]

Did you notice that in screen 4 that shows the "new" explorer you have a link to firefox "the browser that you can trust" along with a Red-Hat link?

I can't believe that such images can come from real Microsoft source, unless FF is on radar of MS future purchase list.

Re:It's a fake?

[GuyErnest]

In that screen you can also see Google Ads.

To top that one of the ads is: "Is Longhorn Secure?".

No way that it is real!

Re:Mirrors?

[pearljam145]

Try http://mirrordot.org/stories/38d3ca8d0f1450ecd904c fee28fb683c/index.html

Be patient

[DigitlDud]

Microsoft is doing Longhorn right by not focusing on the UI. Most of the changes made in Longhorn are internal. Logic to handle driver failures without the bluescreens, sandboxing in kernel file system filters to stop virus scanners from crashing the OS, componentizing everything to end the days of rebooting on patches, creating a single world-wide binary, hardware support for all the PCI express features, microphone arrays, ambient light sensors, hybrid hard drives, the list goes on and on. And then you have the whole 3-D desktop compositing thing which OSX may do as well. But they don't have to deal with the fact that Windows has to contend with both D3D and OpenGL apps on the same display surfaces. Plus an utterly massive library of software and hardware to run it on. It's a really big deal. It took years to solve the problems of putting OpenGL on a D3D surface while handling the tons of pixel formats, and supporting accessbility screen readers, and working over terminal server as usual.

You will get your UI innovation in beta 2, because it's not a big priority. And when you do, you will have a completely replaced library of icons, games, and dialogs. UI can be done overnight, internal changes can't. This beta was ment for IT departments, not for consumers to scrutinize the interface.

Re:Be patient

[earthbound kid]

UI can be done overnight

It's exactly that attitude that will keep me on OS X for the foreseeable future.

While it's true that a UI can be whipped up quickly, a good UI is the product of testing, testing, and more testing in order to smooth away rough edges, figure out where users are confused and make the application better fit to how one would expect the application to be. None of that can be done quickly.

Note, there are two icons on the desktop...

[Anonymous Coward]

The desktop seems to have the two most used icons shown as default... and these are:
Recycle Bin
(and, you guessed it) How to Report a Bug!
At least they have their priorities right. ;)
screenshot here

Mirrors

[seguso]

That's not plain transparency, did no one notice? There 's a smoothing filter applied to the items in the background, which allows for much more transparency to be used, without disturbing. Look at the first picture here (which is a mirror by the way) http://www.phoenixrealm.com/wp-gal/index.php?dir=. /longhorn

Originality (Re:Sigh..)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Can we at least keep the attacks on Microsoft original this time?

Wouldn't that require something original to attack?

Re:Screenshots are all you need

[Goodl]

I dont think there ever was an Office 98 for windows unless it was on the mac, there is 97, 2000,xp and 2003

noticed the banner

[Kuscheltier]

Did anyone else notice the banner on the 3rd screenshot saying:
"Want longhorn today?
Cutting-edge Web UIs,
declarative XM dev approach.
Open Source"

:X

I'll stick with OS X, thanks,

[oberondarksoul]

Some criticisms:

Why is the close box larger than the minimise and maximise/restore buttons? I can see a lot of accidental closing of windows simply by flicking up to where the buttons 'ought' to be. Why emphasise a destructive task?

In the Internet Explorer window, why are there still several different icons for a web page? The icon in the title bar is older than that in the address bar.

In Computer Management, why have the icons still not been updated to match the rest of the interface? In Windows XP, for example, there are still some folder icons (Downloaded Program Files, for example) which maintain the Windows '98/2000 appearance. This just looks sloppy.

In Internet Explorer, why are the File, Edit, etc. menues below the tabs? That makes no sense at all.

Windows Media Player. 'nuff said, really.

I think I'll stick with Mac OS X. Eye candy, stability, and complete immunity from the masses of Windows viruses/trojans/worms/spyware? Yes please.

The Back and Forward arrows (KDE - vs. Longhorn)

[tessonec]

I don't know if someone saw this before, but the back and forward arrows in Longhorn are EXACTLY the same than the KDE Crystal (take a look on the comparison)
KDE Crystal SVG look : http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?previe w=2&id=8341&file1=8341-1.jpg&file2=8341-2.jpg&file 3=8341-3.jpg&name=Crystal+SVG&PHPSESSID=b09161c27e 4dc69f957fca2b9ef44a81
(Also the replicant Plastikfox for firefox) https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id= 213
Longhorn long awaited innovative arrows: http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/shots/lh11.jpg
Will MS release their skin under the GPL???

Designing a UI is like cooking...

[EMIce]

You can't take a competitors recipe and hope to change it "just enough" to make it look like your own. Like recipes GUIs involve a balance.

If your making coleslaw decide to cut the amount of mayonaise in half, your probably going to want to cut back on the sugar and vinegar too, unless you want to end up with pickled vegetables instead of coleslaw. This requires understanding what makes coleslaw enjoyable. Someone who has chanced upon coleslaw for the first time and is trying to imitate _and_ tweak it, just so that it doesn't taste too much like the original, will probably end up making something entirely different.

Same goes for GUI design, you can't slap competitor's ideas in there without understanding what made original recipe great, plain and simple. Market surveys may say people are interested in a competing product X, but without an understanding of why, you can only end up with a superficial and inferior imitation.

Microsoft has accelerated what appears to be their old GUI with GPU hardware and the result looks smooth and slick, but this only makes the old thorns look more enticing. It's amazing how much they pigeon-hole into the start menu, when most of the time users go straight for "Programs". Games, Music, and Pictures? Set Program Access and Defaults? Help and Support? Computer?!?! Even Programs is not categorized in terms of user goals, or sometimes not even even by application name, but by meaningless brands.

Like a good chef, MS management needs a vision to work towards, not a mish-mash of market surveys that say what to put in next. I bet there will be a link for MS' new blogging service on the Longhorn desktop, but little UI coherency implicit in the design. That starts with the OS and extends into the applications, where accomplishing most basic user goals should be implicit in the design - that means avoiding unnecessary clutter, and sticking to things that the user will find immediately useful in a given context.

But no, not for Longhorn, which will probably be more like a french onion soup without the sweet onions to temper the hardiness of the beef - with maybe a candybar thrown in there for good measure. Edible or even not bad, but definitely lacking some things and having too much of others.

Keeping "My" in "My Computer"?

[Spoing]

Wasn't Microsoft ditching the whole "My" prefix?

Let's hope that they do, though if the layout of this desktop is any indication, it looks like a transparency skin for Windows XP and little more.

I wonder how many of the remaining features actually are going to make any difference this time round? Will Windows die-hards have something to brag about when the version one past Longhorn comes out...hard to tell. 8 ball says 'Try again later'.

Transparency, UI glitches and other BETA features

[theolein]

Firstly, although I'm a Mac OSX user, and don't even have a PC capable of running XP let alone Longhorn, I think these screenshots show that Longhorn has indeed evolved since the first screenshots came out with alpha builds last year where that huge fugly task column/widget bar thingamajig was on the right hand corner taking up almost 20% of the screen.

It seems that since then Microsoft has toned Longhorn down to better fit within an XP user's experience, so as not to overburden upgraders. This is probably fairly important for business users.

Also, I am fairly sure that the transparency seen in these screenshots of window borders is just one of many default skins available and it won't probably be the default.

I am just as sure that the weird UI glitches, such as having the menu bar under the tabs in Explorer, plus the somewhat blocky and unseeming tabs themselves are all still in beta. They will probably change before Longhorn becomes a release candidate.

Otherwise, I kind of like it. The rounded corners are smaller than those in OSX, which I find good. The Start button is now fully anti-aliased as are all the window icons in the task bar.

How it all performs is imposible to tell from screenshots of course, so time will tell.

Re:Screenshots are all you need

[GraemeDonaldson]

wrong way around, it was 97's younger brother and 2000's older brother.

Longhorn's immediate failings...

[Chordonblue]

At least to me, there's a few rather obvious things wrong with these screenshots. Remembering that this is a beta and that this list might change, I'm just saying what is on my mind about this.

1) Take a look at the 'Computer Management' window and you begin to understand just how little has actually changed concerning the UI. It's almost like you're running it in a Windows XP emulator frame as it retains the old window controls inside the new fancy ones. Is this the way older programs will look?

2) The screenshot with the drive listing is intriguing. I like the colored progress bars representing drive space - but why is the CD-ROM in red? Because you can't write to it? Doesn't red strike you as being a color that should indicate that something is wrong?

3) The taskbar - it's soooo 1990's. What did I expect? Oh. I dunno. Maybe a better way to express when you have 5 programs open at once. Most displays today start at 1024X768. It seems to me that it should be possible to manipulate the size of the tasks listed rather than make them entirely unreadable. Minor, yes, but then this is supposed to be the 'next best thing' from MS.

I sure hope there's more to this than simply cosmetic changes. I'm trying to keep an open mind about it, but so far I have to say that 3rd party enhancements to XP seem to have more originality.

New hidden features

[BonoLeBonobo]

Those screenshots are not all the things that will be in Longhorn.

Avalon and WinFS won't be there.

But what about the stability ? What about the security ? Maybe they are going to be improved, but we can't see this on screenshots.

Actually, I'm a bit disappointed with these screenshots, but screenshots doesn't show the whole new features.

Correlation

[Mr. Underbridge]

I keep seeing this come up over and over again. There is no correlation between funding and creativity. In fact, the better funded a company is, the less likely they are to take the chances necessary to come up with something new.

You contradict yourself. As you say, there is a correlation. An inverse one. ;)

Color choices.

[Grendel Drago]

why is the CD-ROM in red? Because you can't write to it? Doesn't red strike you as being a color that should indicate that something is wrong?

That is a terrible idea. Gray seems like a much more obvious choice, but perhaps that's just me. I wonder if there's any good human-interface text to read about designing this sort of thing.

--grendel drago

Windows Classic Theme

[JohnG307]

As someone who would never use the default WinXP theme, I can't wait to enable the "Windows Classic Theme" on Longhorn and then have it be EXACTLY THE SAME OS as XP. Rockin'.

Is that it?

[Curmudgeonlyoldbloke]

So it looks exactly the same as XP, only more so (presumably more drilling down in control panel is required to get to anything useful).

Surely what's needed is two sets of settings - an "idiot mode" and a "non-idiot mode". By all means default to idiot mode, but at least allow a common series of changes to be made by non-idiots without having to go through lots of different areas of the system making the same changes (turn off the search puppy, search for all files not just a subset, turn on explorer details view, etc.)

Cars have a similar idea for years, allowing you to turn off ABS, ESP or whatever, if that's what you really want to do.

Linux distributions tend to provide these two levels "out of the box" because in addition to a GUI frontend you've got the config files as well - so if you want to see EXACTLY what changes have been made by an action you can.

Rebuttal.

[coolGuyZak]

You have to remember: Windows 2003 Server is right now, the largest programming artifact in existence

Naw. I'd say that's BSD ;)

mean, why is it that everyone is getting so 'uptight' here about that anyhow? I don't see Linux with a DB driven filesystem either!

Honestly, I don't think that DB is the way to do it either. I find indexing (ala Tenor/Spotlight) a much better solution. Regardless of that, though--you must admit that the Windows search engine blows.

And, in a related topic: Most filesystems are, in fact, database driven. They use many of the same algorithms, provide atomic operations, and have queries (file locations). It just so happens that they don't use SQL to do it.

(Windows NT-based Os' are built to have an extensible filesystem)

May I be the first to plug Reiser 4?

However, it's obvious many here have never written code & certainly not of enterprise class size, because expecting to be able to do it in a heartbeat or miracles as others stated about doesn't happen overnight

Well, the expectation can happen overnight, but the programming certainly can't. ;)

Personally I think the current filesystem arrangement on Windows Server 2003 is just fine and it has been fine for ages. Windows Server 2003 is the core code of the next release, LongHorn, it's foundation. It is stable and solid as a rock imo. I have been using it for all of this year 2005 and much of 2004 as well. I can safely make that statement.

And you could say the same for HFS+, ext3, & reiser3. What's your point here?

However, again, the more I come to slashdot, the more it seems it is just ammo for the pro linux zealot's jihad against Microsoft with it not being in these Longhorn beta

Are you new here? I've been around for a few years now, and it's always looked this way, to me. ;)

Note: most of this made purely in jest :)

In other words...

[SuperKendall]

"This is not the beta you're looking for"

this is not the beta I'm looking for

*blink*

Why?

[SuperKendall]

And why the fuck exactly did recycling old technology take them this long?

Well, to bake in the evil of course!

You think that stuff can just be sprayed on like Pam? It takes some time to bake it in so it can't be removed.

Really really sad

[mattshadbolt]

Do you all realise the saddest thing about this article and all those who have posted???

In about 3 years time(ha.. we'll see!) you will all be using this OS!

hang on... the sadest thing about that statement is that you i also will be using this OS!

Something has to be done! Its not you and I that is loosing the war to a company that refuses to inovate.. it my mum, my younger sister and my 12 year old next door neighbor.
THEY DONT CARE WHAT WE THINK!
They are happy having 98% percent of the population using their operating system because thats all they know.. thats all they've ever known.

There is only one thing that we can do. Push our families and friend onto other applications.
1) REMOVE THE IE ICON FROM THE DESKTOP
the majority of users wouldnt even know where to look for IE. Ive many times shown up to a clients house and said i have a new internet browser for you and had the reply of "but what about the internet? i cant surf it without internet explorer"
2) INSTALL SOFTWARE NOT MADE BY MICROSOFT
you ask anyone about "software" the number one response will be.. what? then you say "programs" they will reply with.. "oh! sory, like msn messenger and word?" we must show them that there are alternatives and prove to them that they "do the same thing" only better.
3)START EXPLAINING THE ADVANTAGES OF ALTERNATIVES
dont steal software... one of the reasons people use windows is because someone has given them the "free" version. show the average user how easy OSX is, that it is COMPATIBLE(oh you have no idea how many times ive heard it isnt!), show the user that there is soo much free and safe software out there, show them how fasionable these apps are and teach them to be an individual.

The only way that a multinational like microsoft will ever listen is if their quotas arent met, and you can see that with the tabbed browsing.
The only way we can make a difference is to
make sure that our workmates, family and friends are educated in their choices and not just "because every one else uses it".

we cannot be held ransom to the crowd.

This is a vital time in history towards the OS battle. Microsoft is lagging behind the competition and we must make them accountable.

- matt

(comments? matt.shadbolt@gmail.com)

Longhorn = Cheese

[comzen]

Longhorn cheese refers to a mild Cheddar or Colby cheese made into a long orange cylinder.

Re:That is the CLI

[coolGuyZak]

If the cookie cutter housung units were the equivalents of the CLI, then every one would come with power windows, sinks, showers/bathtubs, and toilets. They would have interchangable interiors, automatic furnature generators, and customizable security controls. Depending on the parameters you pass (upon entry), you could romp around interactively, or have it do everything for you. You would be able to interactively move people into the forground or background, break, or even kill them with a simple command.

I don't know... it's sounding pretty good. ;)

Not from Microsoft

[InfiniteWisdom]

It's screenshots posted by someone who has obtained a beta copy of Longhorn. Nowhere is it claimed that Microsoft has released these screenshots.