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Orkut Linked To Drug Ring Bust
Dynamoo writes "Google's Orkut service has been allegedly used to sell drugs by a Brazilian outfit, according to a BBC news report. According to the report, the dealers offered pot and ecstasy for sale via the system to Brazil's large Orkut user community. Google is reported to be investigating. One interesting issue that springs to mind is: how can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community such as Orkut? And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this?"
What is Cingular, T-Mobile and Verizon's legal liability for illegal activity ranging from petty drug dealing all the way up to terrorism when their products and network are used to perpetrate those crimes?
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
I'm sure such services facilitate the transaction between brewers of beer and makers of wine. Why does marijuana which is less damaging than both when injested instead of inhaled deserve any attention from police? MDMA is different and has been linked to brain damage by multiple studies I believe.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Since when is Orkut multilingual? I gave up on the site many many months ago when posting something in english in any of the dozens of forums I was in resulted in 20-30 abusive responses in portuguese.
The Brazilians took over Orkut long ago, it's useless to anyone else.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
In other news, a new device called a "cellphone" was recently used in the bust of three columbian druglords. Apparently they were using the address book feature to store phone numbers of other drug lords and were using the "voice" features to network and make deals. How does one go about "wiretapping" and busting such a multi-lingual and diverse group of folk who use "cellphones?"
And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this? Gee, I don't know... what are the limits of liability for the phone companies, postal server, or the package delivery companies if they are used by drug distributors? I beleive the answer is "no liability whatsoever". Why do people think that everything is different if it's done on a computer?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Monitoring this type of community is the same as monitoring the streets, as you cannot be watching everything at once. The best you can do is continually monitor, and browse through the community, the same way cops patrol the streets. If something looks suspicious, you follow up on it.
do.what.promptcmds
332 dime bags jamacain hashish to kilos ::search::
332 dime bags = 0.71548362344 kilos
How would Orkut be any different than having a coffee shop where some people were dealing drugs without your knowledge? Yes you provided a gathering place, but it's not like you really did anything other than that to facillitate it.
Obviously if you knew about it and didn't make some effort to stop it, that would be a different scenario but there's no indication that's the case here.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
These guys seem to have gotten caught after being found out on a telephone conversation - leading to the authorities to get access at their internet connection. First rule of traffic is to keep a low profile, and apparently someone broke that rule (and got phonetapped in the process, which blew the rest of this open).
I honestly don't see how Google (or anyone else for that matter) could manage policing this type of environment. Instead of saying "Hey I have $SUBSTANCE", smart dealers will say things like, "Free kittens to good home" or whatnot.
Of course, I could springboard from here to legalization arguments, but that would bring me way OT...
Why do I M2 everything negatively?
i've seen drug offers/deals on IRC before.
go shut them down.
oh wait, u can't.. haha.
why can't u be a man and go out, stand on the corner, and sell your drugs, instead of trying to be bill gates and use a computer.
...the phone companies were charged with conspiracy to sell narcotics after it was discovered that people were using the phone to help sell drugs. Not.
Seriously, I don't see any legal implications for Google, as they didn't set up the system to sell drugs... it was just an avenue of communication that drug dealers/users took advantage of to sell and buy drugs.
Any form of communication can be used for that purpose... photocopiers, phones, carrier pigeons.... Actually, that's not a bad idea... hmmm...
$0.02 (CDN)
I don't think there should be any liability for providing a service like this. Thats like saying the US government is responsible for drugs that someone sold using the US mail. Or UPS being responsible for the same thing. However this begs the question should a more dangerous item such as a bomb be the shippers responsibiliy? Personally I think it should not be. However in a good free market I think you should see some competition in this area, "our service is better because we scan your packege before you get it" which of course spawns services that are completly scan free and so everyone ends up buying home scanners. Or not ;)
Free Google Secrets
Well, communicating about illegal activity on a public forum is a pretty stupid idea. Especially considering evidence that Orkut may be involved with the CIA and NSA. Chances are those organizations were involved in this drug bust.
Badass Resumes
what has made Orkut such a popular site for Brazilians? (aside from drugs!)
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
I guess this explains how Google beat forecaster's predictions on profitability.
Gates won't take this sitting down. Maybe we need to take another look at that recently discovered drug tunnel on the Canadian border. I wonder if it was meant to go all the way to Redmond?
People are using a communications medium for drugs and it's something newsworthy? I would think the proper response would be duh. Careful guys, next thing you know they'll start using IRC networks even, or maybe IM services like AIM and ICQ! Criminal liability? What a joke. What next, holding telephone service providers accountable when a drug deal goes down on their network? Give me a break.
"We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
What should be the limit of criminal liabilit is obvious: If you are aware something criminal is going on, then you should be held liable. If you know nothing then obviously you are not liable. This is the simple bulletin board v.s. the street corner cafe thing. The cafe owner is not responsible if a drug dealer stops by while in possession of drugs, but if the cafe owner knows someone is dealing drugs at his cafe and approves of it, then that is something completely different.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Why do the authorities even bother looking/searching for drug crimes? They lost this war decades ago, didn't anybody tell them it's time to surrender? Or maybe it's time to adopt a new approach to dealing with drugs.. What a waste of fucking resources this whole god damn thing is. Let me go back to smoking my Canadian hash, thank you.
This isn't bad -- this is GREAT! This is an investigators dream; documented evidence of the social structure of a drug ring. They know who's friends with who and have leads galore.
So since Ortuk is an "Invite Only" community who invited thier Law Enforcement friend? Guess they don't have to worry about getting "wacked" since on the internet everyone is anonymous...oh wait...shit...
Ave Molech Setting
What's the liability of the government for building the roads on which the drug transport takes place?
This space for rent.
And that will put an end to illegal drug sales. The War on Drugs has been won!
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Despite the criminal connection, it's a net gain for Google in the publicity department.
...mother nature has been charged with a conspiracy to sell narcotics after it was discovered that people were using air to transmit verbal sound waves to help sell drugs.
I'm brazilian and I canceled my Orkurt's account because criminals are using Orkut information to extort people.
It is a shame.
Google Tattler: Pay money to druglord assistants to get hints on who to bust. All thru the internet!
Transactions and info will be private, and encrypted.
> how can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community
Within a few years ISPs will be required to store *everything* they transfer so peoples internet usage can be scanned for copyright materials, evidence of drug dealing etc. The government will spend a lot of money developing code to track social networks (quite apart from just taking the data from Orkut and similar), AI to locate people using codes etc. It'll be an offence to operate as an ISP without such storage (perhaps you'll have to get a license from ICANN, which will be run by the UN).
TheFacebook.com site 'used by Stoners'
Ten thousand people have been arrested at every college campus in the United States after authorities discovered them allegedly using the online community site thefacebook.com to promote, sell, and entertain themselves while using drugs.
Authorities report having shut down the online community site "thefacebook.com". Authorities claim the popular site was being used to advocate and facilitate the use of drugs on college campuses by groups of students. The groups were uncovered by careful monitoring of "Facebook Groups" like "I The site, used for gathering "friends" and building showing off how popular students virtually are, is popular on American and international college and university campuses.
"We discovered the drug rings by careful monitoring of their message boards, which mostly consisted of random thoughts posted while users were high and requests if anyone knew where to 'get some'," an agent with the Drug Enforcement Agency told the Obvious News news agency.
"We are aware of the situation and will look investigate it thoroughly, later. Right now, we're fuckin' wasted, man," thefacebook.com said in a statement.
Authorites said the druggies used a few features of the facebook.com to get information on where to find drugs such as marijuana and ecstasy. However, more advanced features, such as "poking", were not generally employed until after the students had acquired and used the drugs.
No trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
I like your thesis, but I think you're missing the part where it's not just "people", it's "the sort of people who use drugs", which are intended to be separate from "the good, honest, moral, God-fearing people who make the laws" and "the good, honest, moral, God-fearing people who elected them". Never forget the complicity of the electorate, who keep sending tough-on-drugs candidates back, and who spaz when a candidate admits to using drugs.
So it's not just a "war on people"; that's a little too Orwellian. It's a reflection of a moralistic, judgmental, and often hypocritical aspect of American society. I don't need to hypothesize a shadowy keep-the-people-down figure when all I need is the prudes and Puritans to know why we're pursuing this foolish policy.
This just in:
"The popular Craigslist bulletin board service has been allegedly used to offer sex and drugs. According to the report, members are using the system to conspire with other members, offering companionship, massage, and sex in conjunction with variety of controlled substances for fun and possibly profit.
One official was quoted as saying, "It took some time, but the guys in our Cybersecurity Department finally cracked the secret codes"
Don't get me wrong, most of them are extremely nice people who are eager to learn about other cultures, however there are some who are incredibly racist, and think that just because they have the largest population on Orkut, that they don't have to follow the rules when it says English Only in a community.
I've since enforced a rule that drew a LOT of hostility whereby I deleted every post that did not contain an English translation, and banned people for disruptive behavior (you have no idea how many attacks there were on the community).
I've grown a little lax due to work lately, but I can easily say they ruined it for the rest of us. Too bad, with a bit more work, Orkut could have been quite cool.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
... as I also live in Brazil, so it would be easy to mail it to you.
Jokes aside being a victim of extortion is not a result of your data being online or not, is a result you you being dumb enough to let them do it to you.
I've recieved phone calls from ppl that "would kidnap my kid" if I don't pay them off. What I did? Plain and simple: Fuck off, I aint paying you nothing dude! Those calls are oftem made from inside prisions and the only power they have is to anoy you. If you are firm and say no they will go anoying someone else.
Orkut is not to blame but the brazilian authorities that do NOTHING if someone keeps calling you and making threats.
Just my 2c.
There's this new technological innovation which is pretty complicated but it's apparently some sort of "switched network." Some miscreant abused this innovation to set up an appointment with a drug dealer!
America's children are at risk! Why hasn't Congress acted!!?? Write your representative TODAY!
Although I agree with you about the legalization of marijuana, I think that those concerns could be raised in general, especially the first one. "How can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community such as Orkut?" Interesting question.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
There are DOZENS of drug deals happening on Craigslist all the time.
Check it out.. look for the names like "Crystal," "Tina," "Mary Jane," and any post that says "party tonight."
They're all dealing with drugs. People flag them, but more just pop up.
You cannot sue a city because people sell drugs within its boundary.
You can sue a city for using taxpayers money for opening an official place to sell drugs if its against the country's law.
Therefore
You cannot sue Google because people sell drugs using its service.
You could sue Google for offering an official service used to sell drug to resident of a country where its illegal.
Dealers also tend to use cell phones to make deals. They've also been spotted to use busses and maybe even cars to deal drugs.
Lets blame cell phone companies and car manufacturers for people who *like* to get high using something else than alcohol.
Why does Brazil have a law that makes marijuana illegal?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
A bit OT, but there is an incredible deficiency of compassion in this country (America) if we don't even care enough to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes.
My mother suffers from a soft-tissue disease, with the net result being constant pain throughout her body. Marijuana is the only pain-killer that works for her without side-effects worse than the initial pain.
You know what the chances of her getting medical marijuana are now that the supreme court has passed its ruling? Consider that her doctor acknowledged that she should have a prescription, but refused out of fear of prosecution, *before* the ruling.
So I buy it for her (now you see why I'm posting AC). Whoever said it's illegal and therefore oughta be stopped can go to hell. Sometimes the law is incredibly irrational and harmful, and every citizen who caves to this crap out of ignorance, indifference or blind obeisance is part of the problem.
Bad, bad server. No pot for you.
Circumcision is child abuse.
And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this?"
Mentality like that is like trying to sue the telephone company for someone making a drug deal over a payphone.
Paranoia is not really an in-or-out kinda thing, it's a varying scale from slight caution to neurotic obsession. Some people just don't know where to draw the line, or even that the line exists.
To truly and completely protect the public, we must surrender 100% of our rights. It's already gone too far, we need to start digging ourselves out. The laws are becoming more harmful than the things which they are supposed to protect us from.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
back on track, used properly, they could net a lot of good intel in the drug trade keeping quite instead of playing cowboy... there's no reason Google wouldn't cooperate with investigations by providing logs or even fake accounts if the police just asked rather than made a heavy-handed power grab out of everything they don't understand.
Phone companies, postal servers, delivery companies are common carriers - they provide a service (within their own rules) to anyone who wants it, and they are not liable for what is in the packages - they are providing a service; they are not part of a criminal enterprise even if criminals use the service.
Isn't Slashdot protected in the same way? Anyone can post, Slashdot is a common carrier and is not responsible for the contents of the post.
On the other hand, if this outfit is 'Invite Only', it is more like a club, a group... a (partly) criminal group!
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
Damn! Why didn't I think of using a social networking site to buy drugs? Now it's too late...
Erm, I mean, that's reprehensible. How dare they be so ingenious.
To truly understand recursion, you must first truly understand recursion.
If all the legislatures were on E, they wouldn't give a hoot about what was done on Orkut, unless everyone at Orkut was willing to hand out massages.
Everyone at Google just might be raiding the bong though. Why else is their search engine so fast? Pot smokers NEED a very fast result else they'll forget why they are at the computer to begin with, much less why "Google" is on the screen.
(If you don't read Portuguese, how did you know it was abusive?)
you had me at #!
"Except that the foreign languages we speak are other European languages, not that of immigrants. Usually it's mother tongue + English and for those with more education one or two additional languages (French, German or Spanish)."
You didn't fully address my analysis. Actually you have both. You have fractured state level markets within the greater EU, and then further you have fractured intrastate level markets. All with linquistical patterns as I outline previously.
The state level markets are more frequently and more effectively working together than ever, and as a result a single language for commerce is developing (English for whatever reason - German would have been less confusing in the long run, but that is a different argument). That you are unwilling to speak the language of immigrants within your country, as you observe, and secondly unwilling to allow them to fully integrate economically was part of the point of my previous post - and an accurate example of why economic integration does not occur for immigrants within Europe as quickly or as frequently as it should.
"Secondly, many immigrants in US speaks only Spanish, even in 2nd and 3rd generation."
Many immigrants? Sure, we probably have more immigration into the U.S. than Europe does in aggregate. But proportionally, the last numbers I saw showed the U.S. was way ahead as far as integrating immigrants linquistically and economically. The last numbers I saw on this were along the lines of the following for immigrants to the U.S. (a majority of which are Latino):
First Gen = 50% English as primary language at home and work.
Second Gen = 75% English as primary language at home and work.
Third Gen = 97% English as primary language at home and work.
Also remember that generations are temporally shorter for immigrant groups than for established groups in U.S. society. This holds true across most waves of immigration within the U.S. regardless of continental origination (Europian, Latino, etc).
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
The question the law enforcement guys are asking is "Who invited the drug dealers?"
I think there's a terrible confusion here. TFA states "Dynamoo writes "Google's Orkut service has been allegedly used to sell drugs by a Brazilian outfit". Therefore, in that context, "this country" means Brazil, where there *is* a law saying that cell-phone service providers must request and register IDs of all their customers, including those that buy pre-paid phones.
Liability? You mean like the way Cingular gets sued every time I use my cell phone to call up an escort service to order a hooker and a kilo of coke?
You order coke by the kilo? We'll be right there shortly for a little visit.
Signed
Your friendly neighbourhood narc
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
I've been running Elftown, Elfpack, CatHug and a few even smaller communities for over 3 years now. Elftown has more than 17000 users logging in each week. On that huge amount of people, I've only been contacted by the police once (It was about an underage girl that got rescued from her parents by her boyfriend, or as some one-sided US-newspapers wrote: "13 year old girl abducted by a pedophile"). Unfortunately it seems like Google is getting all the press, even for non-news like this. Not even the local newspaper was interested in my story. I guess I should send out press-releases with "No drugs sold this month, not even by roleplaying druids!".
What next, pub owners held liable in Ireland because they let IRA bomb plotters meet during happy hour? The London Underground Authority held liable because it is so trivially easy to leave a backpack filled with about 5 kilos of plastic explosives (or a bunch of repackaged M80 firecrackers) and ball bearings behind, yet SOMEONE must be found at fault?
This is a pretty lame argument against Orkut, etc. Who is to say that the "criminals" using the cell phones in other countries are actually who they say they are, even though the phones have to be "registered"? If it is trivial to buy fake visas and other credentials, it is probably not that hard to come by falsely registered cell phones or phones registered to non-existant people or entities (especially if they've been hacked outside of the country where the crime has been facilitated).
What if the phones had been cleverly hacked in Brazil to be from Brazilian government accounts?
Cuba has a pretty low (petty) crime rate. Why? Because of the ever-present fear of oneself being turned into the internal security aparatus or police, where tattling on your neighbor is pretty common (and a good way to earn a few pesetos). But not too many people from Cuba or who have been in Cuba say that things are particularly free there, as in, open exchange of words, associations, etc.
It's too bad, really. A few people acting madly have such a huge effect on everyone else. Car-jacking and road rage cause everyone to just cave in and let things happen which in the past would have been dealt with and de-escalated.
In SoCal, it's OK to completely follow 10 other cars through a red light to turn left, because getting in an altercation is perceived to greatly increase the risk of pissing off the offender to the point where he does a u-turn, follows you down, and beats the shit out of you basically for the hell of it.
We Americans like to talk about the "tyranny of the majority", but more or less it has really turned into the "tyranny of the minority" (and, no, I'm not referring to the puritanicals ranting against 'the gay minority wagging the dog' [sic]) in so many facets, not the least is if you happen to stop someone from robbing a store, and happen to cause intense physical pain to the creep, and perhaps a few broken bones in the process, you get sued by the perp, and the perp wins.
So in some arenas the courts enforce this tyranny as well.
Oh well.
Wait, wait...that's logic.
We're talking about criminal liability law.
Banning nailclippers at the airport checkpoint is no substitute for 100 citizens paying attention to the people around them... i.e. the creepy guy acting stupid planting a bomb!!
especially when a simple Bic pen is FAR more dangerous (or a mechanical drafting pencil, where the lead has been replaced with a nail...).
The drug lords were from the District of Columbia. If you had ever watched C-SPAN you'd know nobody understands those guys.
There are also substantial Iranian, Estonian, Pakistani communities... If you don't speak their languages, how is that their problem? Most of them have made the effort to learn yours. Here are Orkut's actual demographic statistics. It would be interesting to see statistics based on proportion-of-population. I think Estonia would be quite high on the list. Where else could you meet these guys if you don't travel?
you had me at #!
I always figured that brief spout of road rage we had a few years back helped every one learn to ease up and drive nicer.
Or maybe that was just here in the Pacific Northwest.
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