iTMS Launches in Japan

ickoonite writes "The iTunes Music Store has finally come to the Land of the Rising Sun! After months of tricky negotiations, Apple has reached agreements with 15 record companies for the supply of around 1 million tracks, with per-track prices between ¥150 and ¥200. AppleInsider also has some blurb, and Apple has an (English) press release on the launch is here. The question now is: 'Where next?'"

Comments

Song prices

[bburton]

Songs are priced between 150yen and 200yen (0.76-1.01pounds; $1.34-$1.79), somewhat more expensive than those sold at the American iTMS and possibly also those of the UK. Apple, the article notes, had wanted to have one price for all tracks, but faced opposition from record companies and performers' organisations. That said, it appears that 90% of the tracks are to be priced at 150yen.

That sucks for them. $0.99 is bad enough for one song. I personally think the subscription model is superior. I use Yahoo Music Unlimited (beta); it's $5.00/month (or $0.79/song), which I believe is the cheapest service out there right now.

Comments?

Re:Song prices

[WillAffleckUW]

Have to agree, yahoo music is way more reasonable in price - I even have a radio station there at radio.yahoo.com and you can watch videos too.

But still, if you really want some Japanese Pop tunes, the iTunes iTMS would be fairly useful.

Re:Song prices

[guaigean]

I use Yahoo Music Unlimited (beta); it's $5.00/month (or $0.79/song), which I believe is the cheapest service out there right now.

Well, allofmp3 is pretty cheap at ~ $0.02/MB, even if it does take advantage of current international law.

Re:Song prices

[b4stard]

I find the piracy model to be superior and expect large parts of the japanese market to do the same.

If only the music industry would embrace p2p as a pr-channel similar to radio. Of course, not being able to bribe DJ's could damage the popularity of Britney Spears.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering a music CD is about $30 in Japan, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. Probably cheaper compared to CDs than the US store is.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

I like to own my music, sorry. Thanks for the advertisement, though. Sorry to hear you'll be paying a subscription fee for the rest of your life and will lose all your music the day you cancel.

Re:Song prices

[NaruVonWilkins]

Actually, that's about right. CD prices tend to be 3000-4000 yen (25-35 dollars). Remember that both cost of living and pay are higher in Japan - you can't compare directly to the cost of a song in another market.

Re:Song prices

[VolciMaster]

I really enjoy internet radio. Winamp, iTunes, Windows Media Player, Real, et al, all have several nice feeds. Most, if not all, are FREE, too. Winamp also has internet TV with 'real' tv shows (CSI, Futurama, etc).

There are other options to buying music, especially if you just want to listen to stuff while you work/surf/etc.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha! If this were to happen, there'd be no need for the music industry to exist other than in the form of producers.

Artists, who primarily make their revenue through concerts, merchandise, etc. will seek to market and distribute their songs through the internet and P2P respectively instead of going to record execs to be "made" famous. They might even be able to sell their CD's through their online store and reap in all of the profit instead of the comparatively miniscule amount that the studios pay them.

I think what scares a lot of big names from doing this (besides any prior contractual agreements) is the idea that they really are more famous and wealthier than they deserve to be, and would lose this status if they didn't have the enormous marketing machine that the studios really are backing them. But that might just be the tip of the iceburg, as they say.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, what?

Re:Song prices

[ultramk]

I dunno.

I guess if you like the idea of renting your music.

m-

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

even if it does take advantage of current international law

This is outrageous! Only big corporations should be able to take advantage of international law to screw their victims^Wcustomers. Where do we get to if normal people choose a service they like instead of what our corporational overlords decide is best for us?

Re:Song prices

[akac]

The difference is that radio leads to people buying music. P2p piracy does not. Once you have the song at its best bit-rate - what's the point in buying it? Radio is far from the best audio experience and you have no control over when it comes on.

They are NOT comparable at all!

Re:Song prices

[bennomatic]

Well, they usually portray it this way:

10,000 songs @ $1.00 = $10,000.00.
infinite songs @ $5.00/mo = $5.00/mo.

What they hope that people won't notice is that this means that if you stop paying, it all goes away. So let's say you spend $60.00 at iTMS, you (theoretically) can play your 60 favorite songs FOREVER. If you spend $60.00 at Yahoo, then stop paying, then your infinite songs go away.

It's not a matter of which one is better; I could probably argue for either one. It's a matter of which one is better *for me*, since it's only my money that I have any control over.

If it were up to me, there would be a hybrid model, with $0.99 songs, a $5.00 subscription option, and with the $5.00 subscription option, you get 25%-50% off of songs you purchase after hearing them.

Actually, if were really up to me, I would push artists to adopt creative commons licenses, and recommend that everyone allow free file trading. The people who love the artists still buy collections, still go see shows, still buy videos, etc. Anyone remember when Spinal Tap was coming out on DVD? They gave away their soundtrack album for free, with a site called "Tapster", as a promotional tool for the DVD. It worked for me...

Re:Song prices

[RadRafe]

Does that mean the yen is overvalued?

Re:Song prices

[Nogami_Saeko]

But still, if you really want some Japanese Pop tunes, the iTunes iTMS would be fairly useful.

Really? I was under the impression that iTunes didn't let you purchase music from other regions due to licensing restrictions.

Is that not the case?

N.

Re:Song prices

[WillAffleckUW]

with a Japanese credit card.

Why, is it harder than that?

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

Japanese Pop? All the music of the world, and you want J-Pop?

If I had an international iTunes account, I'd tour Africa for some cronking jungle drum beats before hitting the mideast for some far out hindi rhythm, get my blood boiling in eastern europe with some real death metal, then chill with Celtic tones in the Emerald Isles before dropping by Mexico for a mariachi performance or two.

Sure, I could swing by Japan for a concert or two, but it'd be just as likely to be a classical koto performance as a concert by KOTOKO.

Re:Song prices

[NaruVonWilkins]

Good question. I don't know - it could mean the dollar is undervalued as well. The Japanese have been very good about keeping manufacturing in their country, so they have very good credit internationally - they're still huge producers of high-tech goods. It could be that they have more buying power simply because of their production capacity.

Re:Song prices

[timmyd]

But one thing I noticed when I went to japan a year ago was that it was much easier to find stores that sold used music CDs and stuff. I would usually buy used full CDs that were in the $5 range and you could find used singles for $1-2 IIRC. On the other hand, you could find new CDs in china for around $1. Some of them probably weren't the real copy, but I think fakes would sometimes come with like 2 CDs--an extra with songs from a previous album or even an entire different singer!

Re:Song prices

[NaruVonWilkins]

Could that be due to density? It's not exactly difficult to find used CD shops in the middle of Seattle or New York - and much of Japan is up at that density level. Most of the US is very sparse in comparison.

Re:Song prices

[bburton]

What they hope that people won't notice is that this means that if you stop paying, it all goes away. So let's say you spend $60.00 at iTMS, you (theoretically) can play your 60 favorite songs FOREVER.

This is interesting. However I'm not going to live forever, so using "forever" is kind of silly. Let's throw out the extremes and use a model which is a little more realistic...

My library of "must have" music is about 3000 songs. If I want to listen to that music for say, 40 years, here's how it would work out:

$0.79/song x 3000 songs = $2370.00
$60/year x 40 years = $2400.00

Hmm, that's pretty even, but here's the thing most people overlook: With the subscription model, I'm free to discover new music much more freely than I am with the pay per song model. With YME, if I like a song, I just click "create similar song playlist", which I can then listen to and rate. With the subscription model I can listen to them all without paying a dime more than I already have, if I don't like them, no big deal. With the pay per song model I have to pay ($0.79 in this case with YME) for every song I listen to (you can only listen to a preview for free). That means I'm much less likely to pay for a song that I might like. That fact alone makes the subscription model vastly superior.

And don't forget that I can always buy the song too (or just buy the CD). In reality I listen to much more than 3000 songs (especially over 40 years), so I'm being very kind in these analogies.

Re:Song prices

[thatnerdguy]

Because everyone has a Japanese credit card.

Re:Song prices

[ickoonite]

Comments?

You asked for it!

Seriously. Before I begin, allow me to make a small disclaimer: I am upset to see that my yen signs have become textual "yen" and pounds textual "pounds" in your quote. This may affect my judgement below. However...

I'm not the only one to make this point, but it seems that your type enjoys pain and torture, otherwise you wouldn't be using Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Or any other subscription service for that matter. The argument has been made countless times before, but simply put, if I spend, say, $60 on Yahoo! and $60 on iTMS and then stop using (cancel) both, I may have listened to a thousand tracks but now I have nothing to show for it (save, perhaps, for a few bootleg tapes :P). With iTMS, I legitimately own 60 tracks.

Of course it would be prudent of me to acknowledge that there are those for whom this service would be genuinely useful. But for most of us, music is something to keep - my parents have LPs from the 1960s and 70s that they can play just as well now as they did then (in fact, perhaps better, because of improved turntables, amplifiers and speakers, but that's another issue... :P). They can bequeath these timeless classics to their children as I can with iTMS. But with Yahoo!, that's a whole fuckload of fees - I'll leave the maths to you.

Yahoo! might make sense in the short term, but if you give any thought to the long run, subscription services are an obvious no-no.

iqu :|

Re:Song prices

[blackomegax]

AND they offer flac formatted files. (for *cough* archival purposes)

Re:Song prices

[adam1101]

If it were up to me, there would be a hybrid model, with $0.99 songs, a $5.00 subscription option, and with the $5.00 subscription option, you get 25%-50% off of songs you purchase after hearing them.

Then you must really love the Yahoo model: you pay $4.99 to rent the entire catalogue and you can opt to purchase the songs you want to keep for $0.79.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

"The people who love the artists still buy collections, still go see shows, still buy videos, etc."

And the number of people that "love" any given artist enough to do that are probably a small percentage of those who'd might buy a cd or two or download a tune or two just to listen to.

I have a lot of music, but have only been to a few concerts.

Re:Song prices

[aftk2]

Your mention of Britney Spears confirms what I already thought this to be: an argument straight out of 2003.

Seriously. We have the iTunes Music Store. It costs, but it's very successful. People have proven that they are willing to pay for music online, even if the ability to pirate it still exists.

Re:Song prices

[bburton]

I love YME, it's AWESOME. I've never experienced any pain, nor torture by using it. Just the opposite in fact (even though it's still beta). My only complaint is that it's windows based, but there's rumors that that could change.

That being said, there is a hole in your analogy. I'm not going to just spend $60 on music. If $60 was all I was going to spend, then I would have just bought the CDs. With my case I want about 10,000 songs. Do you expect me to pay $7900.00 for them? Heck no. No way. For that money, I can listen to 10,000 song via the subscription model for 131 years (which should be enough).

Re:Song prices

[Squozen]

Several studies disagree with you, as do my personal experiences. I download music to check it out, then buy the CD. Most genuine music fans do the same.

Re:Song prices

[WillAffleckUW]

Because everyone has a Japanese credit card.

Well, if you wanted to buy Japanese Pop songs, or were a fanboy, this might be a reasonable assumption.

Heck, I own Japanese stocks.

Re:Song prices

[JeTmAn81]

Are you under the impression that most music is actually worth purchasing? I can tell you, I've been subscribing to the Yahoo music service for a couple of months now and I've been using it to listen to at least 30 cds a week, many of which I had never heard before.

Would I want to purchase most of them so I could keep them forever? Definitely not. While I enjoy pretty much everything I choose to listen to, with most of it I'm fine with just one listen every few years. But the beauty is I'm getting to hear stuff I never would have otherwise and keep up to date with new music as well as checking out all the back catalog stuff I've never gotten a chance to listen to.

It's all at my fingertips, too. It's quite nice to dream up an album to listen to and be bopping along to it a few seconds later.

Re:Song prices

[bennomatic]

Didn't realize they had that... if only it worked on my Mac/iPod, I'd truly consider it.

Re:Song prices

[ultramk]

No, my opinion is that 90% of everything is crap.

However, that remaining 10% is huge. I have eclectic taste (as does my wife), so our combined collection of music when we got married a few years ago was over 1k cds.

Music is all about memory to me, and I don't want to be forced to pay a fee every month or lose my memories.

m-

Re:Song prices

[Malyven]

Unfortunetly the RIAA and other such organizations want you to belive this is the Norm. I go to concerts all the time, I would rather give my money to the artist (who get a much greater percentage from concert sales) than the Record Execs (who take most of CD Sales). Besides new studies are out (I believe mentioned on here before but I couldn't find the article) that show on average pirates are buying music anyways See here http://www.tcervo.com/?p=156/ and here http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=4206&t=innovati on/

Re:Song prices

[adam1101]

> But with Yahoo!, that's a whole fuckload of fees - I'll leave the maths to you.

Yahoo offers the option of purchasing tracks for $0.79 in addition to the $4.99 supscription plan. So you can choose to spend $4.99 on one month of unlimited listening and purchase 69 songs with the remaining $55. Sounds like better value than the 60 songs from iTMS.

Re:Song prices

[FreshFunk510]

I'd have to disagree. Radio tends to play 1-2 major hit tracks from an artist's CD. When I was a kid, this might've been enough for me to buy it. But in this day and age, given that I'm older and digital content, I never do this anymore.

I might buy a CD if 1) I enjoy at least half the tracks very much and 2) I want to support the artist. Why would I do this over p2p? Not everything is available over p2p. Ironically, the most available stuff is the most marketed stuff (most of which is crap). CDs sound better in my car then ripped mp3s (frequency range).

It wasn't until the advent of Napster did I really explore the different types of music out there. You can sample music at places like Amazon, but I, personally, can't really come to enjoy a song by only listening to a 30 second clip of it. Nor am I encouraged to buy the CD while still having this half-blindfold.

My guess is that you're describing a personal anecdotal experience that does not hold true for everyone.

Re:Song prices

[bennomatic]

Well, "forever" is a reality. Not only do I expect to live longer than 40 years, but I hope to be able to pass some things on to later generations. For example, I have a collection of 78rpm and 16rpm records that belonged to my parents when they were children. Since I have an appropriate player, I can play them for as long as they last.

Of course, over the next 40 years, the business model for music will change so many times that it's likely that people will laugh at the idea that anyone ever considered [insert current idea about music here] way back when. As I say, I could argue multiple options; iTMS is what works for me now. It's good enough, and that's what matters.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that you only get the $5 price if you subscribe for a year, and everyone ought to realize that these fees are going to rise. These are just introductory prices to get customers.

Re:Song prices

[spooje]

The pay is higher??? HAH HAH HAH! Clearly you don't live here. The average salary until you're well into your mid 30's is only about 3,000,000¥ a year or a bit less than $30,000/year, this is in a technical profession with a university degree too. In Japan pay and benifits are based on senority. Once you're about retirement age you may earn about $45-$50,000/year. This stinks. Why do you think people take the train two hours to work every day? They have to live some place cheaper and their company buys him/her the train tickets.

Re:Song prices

[blackicye]

"before hitting the mideast for some far out hindi rhythm"

I think you'll be disappointed when you figure out that you won't be finding any Hindi rhythm in the Middle-East.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

And remeber Japan CDs tend to come with a rather thick ammount of fan goodies. US CDs barely get a liner anymore. with iTMS you eliminate the goodies completely so that makes the increased price stupid.

Re:Song prices

[MidnightBrewer]

I live in Japan, have the same "average" salary, but haven't made the mistake of living in the heart of Tokyo, which everyone seems to confuse with the rest of Japan (comparable to say that New York represents average life in America.) Living in Osaka, for example, is comparable, or cheaper, than living in Los Angeles. I can easily save US $500 a month without trying, and $1000 if I really feel like it - all without sacrificing a very comfortable lifestyle.

That being said, I wasn't surprised to see the iTMS Japan prices being so high - I figured that's what was holding things up. The Japanese *hate* dropping prices on anything, and Apple even attempting to propose ¥100 per song would have had the Japanese gently, but firmly, pushing them out the door. The media industry over here has a stranglehold on prices, and we regularly pay at least twice as much as the rest of the world (that's okay, because my German friends legitimately pay half as much as I did in the US.) As for the, "some songs will be ¥150," I'm still looking. Most of them are in the ¥300 to ¥400 range, which means that basically Apple caved completely to the dictates of the Japanese companies.

I'm surprised to hear that anime songs are scarce - Avex, one of the biggest labels that signed, releases a lot of anime music over here. I'm sure it'll start popping up, as a large number of Japanese consumers will want it just as much as the American otakus do.

Re:Song prices

[patio11]

In a country where I pay $12-15 for a *single* I think I will suck up the "premium" on top of what they charge the American market.

Re:Song prices

[NaruVonWilkins]

Most people in Japan are not in their 20s. Most people are in their 60s. Hence, the average salary is much higher than what you experience.

Re:Song prices

[vonFinkelstien]

Don't forgot the you can buy whole albums with 10-25 (maybe more) songs for the same price. I have bought several iTMS albums with more than 20 songs for 90 SEK. One classical CD from Naxos was only 56 SEK.

Re:Song prices

[spooje]

True, but the market for music buying in Japan is with the teens and the 25-35 crowd. Most of them make crap wages, and only survive by living with their parents until they get married, which in Japan, is getting later and later.

Also there is a general policy that most companies follow, that forces employees to retire when they're 60. People will often find a new job to work for a few more years to help build on the nest egg but they're hired at a very low salary relative to their previous position. How do I know? I live here and had many seniors as students back in my eigo sensi days and listened to them complain about it.

Re:Song prices

[superpulpsicle]

Rhapsody has the least amount of 30 second "buy-only" samples in a subscription based service. I have signed up for every service possible except for Yahoo music service, since everyone calls it beta.

Pretty much every service offers a To-Go service. Which allowed me to not waste anymore hard drive space keeping songs forever. I actually used iTunes to keep track of how many times I listen to each song. The average is about 5-8 times.

I'd been collecting mp3s since literally 1996. Everyone will eventually ask themselves why did I waste so many CDs burning songs that I'll never listen to again.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed, most of my japanese friends are working class types and retail/service workers and they get payed crap. Some went back to living with their parents because they couldn't save any money with the high cost of living. My best friend who's been working at a major engineering firm for 10 years basically earns an equivalent of $32k in USD.

Re:Song prices

[zmotula]

"Actually, if were really up to me, I would push artists to adopt creative commons licenses, and recommend that everyone allow free file trading. The people who love the artists still buy collections, still go see shows, still buy videos, etc."

Is guess this wouldn't work for all but the highest-profile artists.

The collections are expensive to make and whoever pours the money to make them possible has to be sure enough people buy them so that the money come back, where "enough" is defined as "much more than an average band can lure".

The shows usually involve so many people (like the sound engineer and people around the stage) that the money you make out of an average show divided by the number of band members means you would have to make concerts every other day to pay the bills. Which is OK with many musicians but still you're going to be old someday or going to be ill someday...

As for the videos the same argument applies as in the case of collections--the costs are too severe to be cured by some tens of fans.

If it were up to me, I would keep paying money, but directly to the musicians, for their work is hard and the record companies often rip them off IMHO.

T.

Re:Song prices

[womby]

I doubt it, it is not uncommon to find Rental stores that sell Used product and most mid-large music stores either have used departments or a second building close by that specialises in it.

Re:Song prices

[badasscat]

$0.79/song x 3000 songs = $2370.00
$60/year x 40 years = $2400.00

And are you seriously delirious enough to think that Yahoo or anyone else is still going to be charging $15 a month in 40 years?

Do you still pay a nickel to get into a movie theater? Be a little realistic here. In 40 years you'll be paying $300 a month or more for your music rental. (And if that sounds like a lot to you, ask your grandparents how they feel about some of today's prices.)

This is the renter's fallacy, and it's true of everything. For most people, renting anything just doesn't make financial sense.

Of course, the price to buy new music will likely rise over time too, but the point is if you like the Rolling Stones, and assuming the Rolling Stones' best years are behind them, you're going to pay a lot less to just buy their entire back catalog now than you will to continue renting it through the years, because of the effects of inflation.

Re:Song prices

[Atsi Otani]

No, it isn't right at all. CD prices are usually around 2,000 yen for international artists, and 2,000 to 3,000 yen for Japanese artists. This gets even cheaper if you buy imports (only works for international artists).

For example, you can get the How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb (U.S. import) for 1380 yen at Amazon Japan. The price, combined with the fact that a lot of music is missing (read:Sony), makes the iTMS Japan rather disappointing. Even so, it easily beats all the competitors in Japan...

Re:Song prices

[nyquist]

FreshFunk510 says: But in this day and age, given that I'm older and digital content, I never do this anymore. Man, as I get older I wish I could become digital content. Lucky you.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a clue for you: listening to subscription service does NOT forbid you to buy the tracks you want to keep. In fact, Yahoo offers those for $0.79.

Re:Song prices

[mmkkbb]

Open up the root menu of iTMS and scroll down to the bottom. There's a pop up menu of countries to buy from.

Re:Song prices

[bennomatic]

Actually, it's often the biggest bands who have the biggest problem with free file trading. Like the Metallicas of the world who are millionaires 100 times over, and who do not want to possibly lose a single dime they would make by someone having a copy of their song.

I'm a musician and I've been in orchestras, chamber groups, quartets, choruses and rock and roll bands. I've written music and played live in front of audiences of thousands and over the radio to audiences of, well, thousands. Classical over KPFA and Rock over KALX have limited reach :). Point is, I know how hard it is to make good music, perform it well, and put on a good show, coordinated with others. Never made a video, but I can imagine.

However, I've also heard Metallica, and I've seen them perform. They're retired because they're lucky and they've found a huge audience willing to make them rich $75 (for concerts) and $15 (for CDs) at a time. I'm sure they paid their dues, but *nobody* can convince me that they deserve to be retired in their 30s like landed gentry. And the fact that they are means that they shouldn't give a hoot about a few shared files. People are obviously buying their music.

On the flip side, a friend of mine was in a tiny little no-name band. The kind where a "tour" means buying a $500 van, going from town to town, calling ahead on Wednesday to get a Thursday night booking, etc. Last time I saw him, he told me that they had had some limited success in the states, and they put a few of their own songs up on Napster just to get them out there. Not getting much radio play, they figured that might be a way to get some PR.

Well, it worked. They did a European tour a couple of months later, and they said that they were amazed at two things: everywhere they went, the clubs they went to were packed, and as often as not, in the dark, beer-soaked underground clubs of Bavaria, people they'd never met, who maybe would never have found their music in a record store, obviously knew their music. People, he said, were singing along with their songs.

For the biggest bands, free trading is a threat to their established wealth. For the littlest ones, it's a foot in the door. For my friends, it meant that a tour which was really just meant as a break-even way to get to see Europe was immensely successful, and each of them came back to the states with bulging pockets. And I'm sure they're not alone.

Re:Song prices

[bburton]

$60/year doesn't equal $15/month smart guy, it's $5.

I can guarentee you if they up the subscription fee they'll also up the price per song.

If all you want is 60 songs or so, then by all means just buy them. But I don't want just 60 songs, I want about 10,000. I sure as hell ain't going to lay down $8000.00 for that though.

Re:Song prices

[humina]

You would need to buy 25 songs a month to make up the difference for that subscription. That means you need to spend $24.75 a month ($5 for the subscription and 25 songs * .79/song) just for yahoo to cost the same amount. So for anyone that buys less than an average of 25 songs a month this service is a waste. Since you decide to keep more than 25 songs a month (more than 300 a year) I'm sure you are happy with yahoo. This also assumes that you are also happy with the file format from yahoo (WMA) which is not compatible with all players such as the ipod.

Since I do not buy over 300 songs a year and do not want to use WMA files, I choose not to use yahoo's music. People are different and this could be a deal for other people. Just not me.

Re:Song prices

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, for sure the pay is not that high here. I make 3.6mil a year after tax (plus subsidised rent) and for someone my age (25) thats **HUGE**. Most of my co-workers make the same or less than me and they're all MUCH older, but I get paid more 'cos I'm a foreigner in the public system...I have many friends my age who quite seriously cannot move out of home yet because they can't earn enough to house and then feed themselves without wearing rags into the office each day...Japan is full of companies that regularly price-fix and see nothing wrong with it...I've had it explained as them protecting their incomes...the poor Japanese are generally so well indoctrinated by the system that they don't even see anything wrong with the high prices here...despite the fact that their economy hasn't moved up an inch in decades...take the insane price of rice here (despite it being their staple food) as an example from which you can view all of the rest of Japan...The iTunes store is unlikely to be huge here at these prices, with DRM and less availability to boot, when the used CD (and rental CD) market is so well set up and cost effective.

First Post Wishful Thinking

[gbulmash]

Where next? Here's the roadmap.

ITMS Ankh Morpork (running on Hex OS)
ITMS Xanth (running on Com-Pewter OS)
ITMS Amber (running on Ghostwheel OS)
...

- Greg

Re:First Post Wishful Thinking

[FinchWorld]

ITMS Ankh Morpork (running on Hex OS)

That would only work without rock music, remember Soul Music...

Besides Hex's runtime is mostly used for the Arch Chancellors Billiard games.

Re:First Post Wishful Thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Live the fucking discworld out of this.

IMHO, the next stop for iTMS should be hell.

Re:First Post Wishful Thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Ghostwheel can fetch your music for you from iTMS Japan. Or any other iTMS. For free. And screw the DRM, because if Ghosthwheel can hold off both the Unicorn and the Serpent, it stands to reason it should probably also be able to hold off the RIAA. Probably.

So the Ghostwheel is the ultimate piracy tool.

Merlin better not try to walk shadow into the USA again anytime soon, or they'll drag him to court under the DMCA.

Mh, I need a life.

Think I'll go back to bed now :-O

Re:First Post Wishful Thinking

[gbulmash]

Merlin better not try to walk shadow into the USA again anytime soon, or they'll drag him to court under the DMCA.

He'll just trump out.

- Greg

sweet

[iomanip]

japanese pop, here I come

Re:sweet

[CoolMoDee]

I wish it was so - I tried to purchase some M-flo last night but couldn't because I am not in Japan. I wish we could buy music from other stores (if the artist wasn't in our own store - that way you can't play the currency conversion game).

Re:sweet

[YomikoReadman]

If you're interested in getting japanese music, I'd recommend CD Japan. It's got a decently sized selection, and if you're like me and go with the $10 for the whole CD option on iTunes more often than not, it's a decent deal. The nice part about it is that even after shipping, it's not that much more expensive than going to Best Buy or Amazon, and the prices aren't nearly as high as they would be if you were actually buying the CD in Japan.

Re:sweet

[YomikoReadman]

Whoops.. teach me to check links.. should be

CD Japan

Re:sweet

[Froobly]

Actually, it's worse than that. Even if you're in Japan, you need to have a valid Japanese credit card with a Japanese billing address in order to use the store. I live in Osaka, but that doesn't matter. I'm not Japanese, so I don't get to use it.

A reminder...

[Azadre]

You need a credit card based in Japan to purchase from the Japanese iTMS... stupid licensing laws.

Re:A reminder...

[Anonymous Coward]

This just plain stinks. I thought we might finally have a source for JPop here in the U.S.

Someday consumers are going to rise up and force companies to get rid of stupid crap like this, though it will have to start in Europe or Asia since the MPAA and RIAA own the US government...

Re:A reminder...

[nuggetman]

Doesn't iTMS take paypal? Couldn't you just put some Yen in your paypal acct?

Re:A reminder...

[Anonymous Coward]

They have pre-paid cards in something like 3,000yen, 5,000yen and 10,000yen varieties. Pick one up, change the settings in iTunes, and you can use the iTMS-J from anywhere in the world. That's exactly what I did in order to use iTMS-USA in Japan.

Re:A reminder...

[cosmic_0x526179]

Interesting subject... I got my first iPod the other day (yeah I'm behind the bleeding mob). Since I could not do anything with it until the iBook arrives, I mounted it on the desktop of an old iMac and poked thru the hidden directories... The preferences file contains a RegionCode... hmmmm.

Are iTMS songs region restricted like DVDs ?

Re:A reminder...

[baumanj]

Doesn't iTMS take paypal? Couldn't you just put some Yen in your paypal acct?

No, you have to set up an account with a major credit card first, then you can pay with PayPal.

Re:A reminder...

[baumanj]

Ok, but where can you pick them up? I tried buying them from Amazon Japan, but they won't ship them to a US address.

Re:A reminder...

[sethdelackner]

This is going to tank. If you *have* to pay by credit card, their target demographic: young disposable income 20-30ish music loving Japanese don't HAVE credit cards. My ex-girlfriend at 27 years old had one once, a few years ago, but nolonger. She is not abnormal. She does buy a boatload of CDs though.

Re:A reminder...

[sethdelackner]

Aaah I see now. They are selling cash cards at the apple store and a few other retailers in Japan, like Bic Camera. Eh. We'll see.

for our japanese colleagues

[Anonymous Coward]

google

hymn project
dbpower amp converter
m4a codec

How about everywhere next?

[sterno]

THe problem that I really have with ITune's international support is that it doesn't allow you to go across borders. I can browse through music from the UK but as a US user I cannot buy any of it. That's kind of dumb consider I could buy the CD that way.

I'm assuming the reason this is the case is a track that costs $1 in the US might be $1.50 in the UK for the same artist.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming the reason this is the case is a track that costs $1 in the US might be $1.50 in the UK for the same artist.

Musical artists have different rights in different countries, and licensing laws are different across borders. As the article states, they had to deal with 15 different music companies in Japan alone, not to mention independents. What's surprising is not that Apple hasn't opened it up across the globe -- it's that they've been able to do as much as they have already!

Re:How about everywhere next?

[imputor]

The blame here should be on the labels/artists, not ITunes. ITunes sends out seperate contracts for EACH area they serve. If the label/artist decides not to sign their EU contract, then their stuff won't be available there, and that's their fault.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[KillShill]

price discrimination. it's all the rage these days and will only get better with ubiquitous DRM.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[Midnight Thunder]

The issue is with the record companies. They have issue if you don't buy through the local distributor.

What I would love to see happen is for merchants to be able to be able to import CDs and music for which there is no local distributor. The day a local distributor picks up that music the merchant would be given a time frame to sell their remaining stock, and all future purchases would have to go through the cartel - uh I meant local music distributor ;)

This would allow merchants to provide the selection they want to provide, without being blocked by anyone.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[SmittyTheBold]

It's not JUST the record companies, but the distributors as well. Certain companies are licensed by the copyright holders to distribute in a certain geographic area. They don't like the idea of being cut out of the loop. If Apple got to globally-distribute songs without going through the regional distributors, it would throw their whole system to the wind.

I'm not saying that's not an outcome I'd desire eventually, but trying to solve EVERY problem of the music industry all at once is a recipe for disaster.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[shadow0_0]

This situation is just ridiculous. This is one of the main reason I don't mind CD from shops anymore. The shops do not have the stuff I want and I get the CD from online shops cheaper.

What about songs that are not distributed locally? I live in Australia and it is next to impossible to get Japanese music. I would pay to use iTMS if it will let me buy songs from other countries.

Re:How about everywhere next?

[Midnight Thunder]

If Apple got to globally-distribute songs without going through the regional distributors, it would throw their whole system to the wind

That much I understand, but in certain cases there isn't a local distributor to go through. What happens in that case? That's why merchants should be allowed to buy from foreign distributors until a local one becomes available.

Answer to Question

[Azadre]

New Zealand and Australia :) Duke Nukem Forever might be out first, however.

Re:Answer to Question

[Winckle]

Yeah, but a least when it does, we'll be able to buy the soundtrack for our iPods

Re:Answer to Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.
DK Forever will be first than ITunes for Central America... :-(

Re:Answer to Question

[Anarchitect_in_oz]

I'm sorry Australia and New Zealand have been quarantined to avoid any further music being released by Russel Crowe.

Re:Answer to Question

[JoshGlid]

I'm the author of this piece about the iTMS and Australia. Sony is the hold out. I reckon, now that Japan has launched, Australia iTMS sans Sony won't be far behind. http://www.bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/site/a rticleIDs/4DC115E462A7EF8ECA25702E0022FE20/

Re:Answer to Question

[GaryPatterson]

I hope so too, but Sony/BMG are very big here in Australia, bigger than in other countries (I've heard). That means the exclusion of them would exclude a *lot* of music from iTMS. Is it then worth it?

Consumers expect to be able to get anything they hear on the radio. They won't understand the excuses, or if they do they won't care. Apple should not put up a half-arsed music store, because they'll be seen to be failing the consumers regardless of the real reason.

I'd love to buy stuff on iTMS in Australia. I live and work in an inner-city suburb that has no music store (Richmond) and I just don't make the time to get into the city that often. iTMS would be great for me, but only if it's got a good range.

I'm busy boycotting Sony/BMG, and I'm telling everyone I know what a bunch of bastards they are over this. They refuse to play when they can't even put up an opposing business. They actually stand to make money from this, but choose not to. It's illogical unless they have a music store in the wings.

Re:Answer to Question

[AussieVamp2]

If it is Richmond, Melbourne, then you are very short of time.

Crawling to the city won't take long from there. :)

Re:Answer to Question

[dilby]

Maybe they mean Richmond, Sydney and are being very liberal about "inner-city"

Re:Answer to Question

[GaryPatterson]

No - it's Richmond, Melbourne, and I *am* very short of time. I'm getting married, and on top of that, I work in Richmond (at a big corporate building on the end of Swan St) so I just don't get to the city that often.

It was easier when I lived at Southbank!

Music Store Opens in another Country...

[decipher_saint]

Why can't this be universal? Why must "entertainment media" be regionalized? I mean I can sort of understand the supply and demand of physical media like DVDs but downloadable media files?

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[WillAffleckUW]

Why must "entertainment media" be regionalized?

Because, if we learn that other cultures have similar questions about serving our masters, we might rebel against them and their fiefdoms.

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because, if we learn that other cultures have similar questions about serving our masters, we might rebel against them and their fiefdoms.

Ooh I hear ya, those radical J-Pop lyrics, they make me want to tear down the conformist walls of ignorance and shuck the chains of oppression.

Take that oppressive conservative fascists! 'Coz when "The Kids" hear this on their computers it'll all come down...

"Me are loving you all."
~The Japanese Peoples' Poet

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to be stupid, can you at least be coherent? WTF is that supposed to mean? Do you even know what "fiefdom" means?

Wait -- aren't you the guy who was trash talking astronauts for cowardice because they don't surf some nowhere beach break like you do?

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[v1]

It's called "price fixing", and when done within a single country is usually illegal. When done between different countries, no single country's law can apply, and even though it's illegal in BOTH countries, it's legal if done separately in each country.

The basic idea is, as usual, to maximize proffit. If a band is really popular in the USA but not popular in say, Europe, the most profitable price point of the album in USA might be $19 where it might be maximized at say, $12 in Europe due to low demand. They are trying to prevent an entrepenur from buying a few thousand CDs in Europe and shipping them to the US and selling for say, $16 each. This undercuts their market in the US by $2/unit, costing them sales. Instead they only see the $12 where they could be seeing the $19.

They want the $19 and do everything they can to see that they get it.

If price fixing wasn't illegal in your country, things would be a lot worse... like in the USA a Garth Brooks album might go for twice as much in Tennessee as it did in say, Alaska. We'd probably see more aggressive region coding on DVDs as well. Instead of 7 world region codes, they'd probably try to like split up countries into regions too. Imagine having to buy a DVD that was not only USA region, but was say, in Central timezone code too? Think of the mess that would make for the consumer. And the recording companies would LOVE it.

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[Col. Bloodnok]

Dollar-->Pound-->Euro-->Yen.

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[NaruVonWilkins]

Actually, it has a lot more to do with the relative value of currency in various markets. Cost of living is very different across regions.

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[adam1101]

While your explanation is good, what you're explaining is not "price fixing" (different suppliers agreeing to charge the same price) but price discrimination (charging different prices for the same good).

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[ralmin]

In Australia, the ACCC* has ruled that it is perfectly legal to import those cheaper CDs and sell them for whatever you want to sell them for. Similarly, they have ruled that cracking the DVD regioning system is the consumer's right. Nice bunch of people they are, standing up the the corporates.

I just can't wait for the iTMS to open in Australia... I'll even go out and buy an iPod then.

* Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[pianophile]

It's called "price fixing", and when done within a single country is usually illegal.[...] The basic idea is, as usual, to maximize proffit.

Exactly. IMHO, if corporations get to move manufacturing, etc. around the world to wherever labor is cheapest, I should be able to buy a product wherever it is cheapest. Thus, I have a multi-region DVD player and buy the movies I want wherever I find the best price/availability. I'm sure media companies hate people like me.

Re:Music Store Opens in another Country...

[v1]

Got that right! They deserve that third Ferrari, and you're forcing them to wait another two weeks before they can afford it. Shame on you!

And where is Sony?

[curmi]

Bigger news is that there are no Sony songs on iTMS Japan!

The story is that this is the current hold up in Australia. Sony/BGM in Australia won't allow iTMS Australia to use their songs unless Apple agrees to sell the songs in Apple's Fairplay AAC, Microsoft's Windows Media format, and Sony's own ATRAC format.

It looks like Apple Japan just went ahead without Sony on board. If only they would do that in Australia...maybe Sony BGM is just too big a monopoly in Australia to be able to do this?

Re:And where is Sony?

[ickoonite]

Bigger news is that there are no Sony songs on iTMS Japan!

I commented on this in the story proper (I am the Apple Blog article's author, so the posting on Slashdot was shameless self-promotion, but Piquepaille can get away with it, so I thought 'What the hell...' :P). Sony, of course, has a lot of clout in Japan - the linked-to Asahi article notes that Sony Music Entertainment is Japan's biggest record company.

But all that is as nothing if you cannot play it. Given that the iPod is, speaking worldwide, something of a standard*, if only achieved through sheer market dominance**, it would be foolish to ignore such standards, i.e. by rolling one's own music download service and supplying one's catalogue to that service exclusively. Of course, as I note in my posting, Sony is no stranger to such folly (see OpenMG in the face of MP3, AAC or, heaven forbid, even WMA, which is frankly farcical, or the Memory Stick in the face of, well, anything else). It may well be that some time will have to pass (and a considerable amount of money lost due to missed opportunity) before Sony will acquiesce and come on board. But any time wasted will be more to their cost than to Apple's (it has been discussed at length how little profit Apple makes via iTMS).

In any event, this is quite a significant step. The Japanese being as they are, this could well be a impressive growth market for Apple, providing they market appropriately (they need especially to think of mobile phone users), and could be a key player in the run up to the billion-songs-sold mark.

Sony BMG won't be able to hold out forever. I don't know what the iPod's market share is like down under, but I'm willing to bet that it's higher than Japan's relatively meagre 36% (according to Apple figures). From a shareholder viewpoint (and we know that in the end, this is all the capitalists care about), any such stance by Sony would almost be negligence. There is no room for such emotion in the corporate arena...

...unless you're Steve Jobs. :P

iTMS Australia will happen. It may just partly be that Sony BMG does have a greater monopoly on content there and, also, that Australia's market is not big enough for Apple to release without a major record company on board. The Japanese market is huge - and they've got most of the big names involved (including Avex Tracks, who are responsible for many of the verging-on-paedophilia teenybopper groups in Japan and who run their own download service, IIRC) - so even without Sony, it makes sense.

We'll see what happens, of course, but I'd be very surprised if Sony doesn't eventually acquiesce. 'Beleaguered' isn't an inappropriate term for that company.

iqu :D

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just means they couldn't sell any Australian Idol songs. Then again that's about all that sells in this country these days.

Re:And where is Sony?

[michaeldot]

Would a mail campaign be any help...?

If there were enough Aussie iPod'ers to bombard Sony/BMG with the petition, it might help sway their stubborn heads?

Re:And where is Sony?

[martinX]

I thought Mushroom Records were the holdouts.

Sony, hey. Bastards. I want my OzTMS and I want it now. And a vPod :-)

Re:And where is Sony?

[j.bellone]

The iPod is not a standard, its a fad. The iPod cannot be a standard if its locked down to one single application. Sorry.

Re:And where is Sony?

[mistfall]

Sony BMG won't be able to hold out forever.

Since it looks like Sony wishes to go it alone how would that affect the re-negotiation of existing contracts in other iTMS stores? Being the oldest I imagine the US store would be the first one up for renewal. Is that due in the next few years?

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you have a dead, furry animal lodged up your ass does not make you right. Sorry.

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what the iPod's market share is like down under

They are EVERYWHERE. All my friends have one, bar one guy. My sister has one. All her friends have one. Nobody hasn't heard of it. It's become the IE of mp3 players. Everywhere I go I have to explain that the ipod is merely an mp3 player and what mp3 players are.

So yeah, most probably alot bigger than %36 ;).

Side note: If anyone is looking for a good ipod that isnt an ipod, I suggest the iRiver h320. It's a nice replacement, it's a bit bigger than your average 'pod and is black, but it can hold the same and play any xvid video (my brother has one, it's very nice).

Re:And where is Sony?

[shadow0_0]

Every second on the train has one. I am talking high school kids, university students, people going to work.
Apple, go ahead and release iTMS Australia and make Sony to beg to join.

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the ACCC can wield a big stick. Price discrimination, refusal to supply, and price collusion seem worth a mention, if transborder issues could be considered. May have to wait until AMD creates some precedent.

The silly supply company has failed to realise WMF and ATRAC will never be used, as those crippled formats belong beside BETA video recorders. Unless these unfair formats come at a steep discount, you can't blame Apple for shunning dog formats.

Given that a lot of Aussies are importing direct off Ebay, or buying Asian grocery store music imports, you wonder what they are thinking.If they fail to act now, it will serve them right when and if China sets up its own mail order and iTMS service.

Re:And where is Sony?

[ickoonite]

The iPod is not a standard, its a fad. The iPod cannot be a standard if its locked down to one single application. Sorry.

You sound defeated already! That forlorn "Sorry" betrays the distinct whiff of a Rio user - perhaps even an early adopter! And you make the mistake of allowing this - or your Slashdot groupthink - cloud your judgement.

Fact is that whether something is open or not, if a large number of people use it, it becomes a standard. The Microsoft Office document formats are not open (although they are now widely understood) but no rational person would dispute that they are the standard for editable document interchange. Similarly, the iPod/iTunes combination, whether open or not, is in many countries the de facto digital music platform. When car manufacturers are putting iPod connectors in their cars, that's an enormous step towards real standardisation.

But you can carry on telling yourself that because Slashdot/Richard Stallman/Cory Doctorow says lockdown is evil, something won't become a standard. In the meantime, the market (and the rest of the world) will prove otherwise.

iqu :|

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

All my friends have one, bar one guy.

I'm that guy.

Everywhere I go I have to explain that the ipod is merely an mp3 player and what mp3 players are

If iPods are "EVERYWHERE", why do you need to explain what they are wherever you go?

Re:And where is Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

He has to explain that there are other MP3 players than iPods (e.g. Creative ones) because iPods are so prevalent in Australia that nobody has heard of other players.

where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[Anonymous Coward]

because its cheaper to pop into town and buy freshly pressed CD's complete with packaging and no DRM or crappy quality for much less than 200yen

the record companies still don't get it
until they do, it won't change a thing

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[ultramk]

Wow!

So these back-street markets you speak of have a million tracks available instantly, from anywhere in the country? That's fantastic! And you can buy just the one track you want, not the whole CD? That's amazing!

m-

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[NaruVonWilkins]

Actually... yes. I don't know if you've been to Japan, but it's rarely more than an hour to a city with over a million people, with a technology district where you can indeed buy not only entire albums for a couple hundred yen, but singles CDs for less. Many, many more tracks off an album are released as singles in Japan than are here - same with the UK.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[ultramk]

I taught for a year in Kamaishi (in Iwate), and it was a good couple of hours (by train) to the nearest large city.

The only places locally you could buy music were shops with nearly no western/euro stuff, though there were places you could rent CDs, that had an ok selection of j-pop.

This was a couple years ago, but I doubt much has changed. Of course, I relied on public transportation, so that made a service like this even more desirable.

m-

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[NaruVonWilkins]

I haven't been out there - the farthest I was from a city was outside Kumamoto - and it was a while into the city. I see no indication so far that you can even buy American music on J-iTMS. I guess it would make sense, but I don't know who's licensed.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[globalar]

iTunes+iPod is a platform with serious momentum now. It is 1) popular, 2) affordable to the market (not cheap though), and 3) convenient.

Yes, there are cheaper - perhaps even better - alternatives. But when comparing Apple's offerings to street merchants (or even traditional vendors) you should include the selling power Apple has invested in and now wields. The iPod is the new packaging and iTunes is the fresh delivery method. Not revolutionary or superior, but desirable. People are willing to pay for desirable things, even if their "usefulness" or longevity or whatever is slim. There are whole industries (ex. fashion) based around this concept. (DRM isn't an issue for many users, as online sales of DRM'ed products show).

The RIAA and traditional music mediums froze themselves in their own business models. "Pirates" widened the technological alternative into mainstream. But Apple is riding the wave. Not forever, but certainly now.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[Microlith]

Much less than 200 yen?

Maybe if it's 8 years old.

And used.

And in less than great condition (damaged slipcovers.)

Make no mistake, Japan has a killer used market. But used copies of recent albums still fetch 2000yen, especially if they're in good condition.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[daninbusiness]

What about the rental cd market? According to my friends from (and living in) Japan, many stores (for a small fee) will let you rent a cd for a couple days. While I know that some aspects of Japanese society (generally speaking) are more honest than others (and therefore may not consider this), wouldn't that still be the cheapest way to max out your MP3 collection? Just rent/borrow, rip to your hard drive, and repeat...

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[Microlith]

Indeed, which was why AVEX Trax was so quick to adopt a blanket CCCD policy back in 2002-2004.

They've stepped back from it as of late, and have suprised everyone by being on board iTMS for the Japan launch.

The irony, inverse to the US of course, is that while they have rental CDs in Japan, rental of video games is prohibited.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[badasscat]

Actually... yes. I don't know if you've been to Japan, but it's rarely more than an hour to a city with over a million people, with a technology district where you can indeed buy not only entire albums for a couple hundred yen, but singles CDs for less.

And I don't know what this mythical country is of which you speak, but it ain't Japan.

My wife grew up in Ryu-Gasaki, a small town in the Ibaraki prefecture about 50 miles from Tokyo. By your definition, this would be a town within an hour of a major city, as the crow flies (though not in the real world).

But it costs about $20 round trip on the commuter train to get there, and that's not including the subway to get to the "technology district" of which you speak. So, maybe another $5-$10 round trip. Already you're pushing $30 just to get to the record/electronics stores, not to mention the time it's taken to do it. I've made this trip a bunch of times, from Ryu-Gasaki to Akihabara - it's a trek by car just to get to the nearest train station to begin with (don't forget the cost of gas!), so you're talking a total of about 2 hours each way.

Then you've gotta spend a couple hours trolling the stores to see if they even have what you want. If you're shopping used stores, this is a crap shoot. And I'm not sure what CD's you've ever seen for a "couple hundred yen", but it's not going to be anything anybody would want. New CD's are generally in the 2500-3000 yen range (I've seen CD's as high as 3800 yen); used CD's are in the 1500-2200 yen range, give or take. Old, old stuff goes for less, but we're talking the equivalent of Frampton Comes Alive type stuff in terms of current popularity, and even that would be more than a couple hundred yen.

The bottom line is it's not as easy (or as cheap) for most people to get to good stores in Japan as you seem to think it is, and anyway iTMS is seriously undercutting Japanese CD prices. They've got Amazon same as we do, so if they don't want the trek they can always just order, but they still then have to pay new CD prices. I think iTMS will prove to be pretty popular there.

Re:where next ? the backstreet markets of course !

[NaruVonWilkins]

Yes - your wife. Not you. I'm betting you grew up in a city, or at least live in one now. Seriously - this audience is urban. Most of the Slashdot crowd lives in major cities. And Akihabara is the last place I'd look for used music...

Not Ireland anyway..

[Celt]

I'm happy to say both Ireland & the UK is already covered by iTunes, infact I was amazed to find out Japan had no service up on-till today.

kind of strange really...

Re:Not Ireland anyway..

[cjm182]

I'm amazed that *Canada* had iTMS before Japan did... I mean, I'm quite happy we got it when we did, but *before* one of Apple's biggest markets? Does make you wonder. Maybe they were testing the markets Sony didn't dominate, just to make sure it was doable...

Re:Not Ireland anyway..

[Ohreally_factor]

I heard that the reason Canada got iTMS before Japan was that there was the threat that you all might secede from the union and become an independent country. =)

No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

That's where CCP (credit card proxy) comes in to its own. You get a CC registered to any of 49 major countries (including Japan) - 'major' is defined as any country whose economy uses credit/debit cards for >5% of all transactions.

A useful (if difficult to find) service.

Re:No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean in Soviet Russia the credit cards proxy you?

Here is where search engines fail. All I'm finding are references to free proxies, the Soviet Union (CCP) and credit card fraud. (An interesting correlation - but not what I'm looking for)

A useful service, perhaps, but a useless tip without links.

Welcome to Japan CowboyNeal!

[BillsPetMonkey]

The iTunes Music Store has finally come to the Land of the Rising Sun!

It was always going to happen, the problem is that although you feel an affinity with the Apple itunes technology, you don't speak Japanese or understand the music distribution system in Japan, so it seemed doubtful because the information wasn't available in English.

iTunes.aq

[Anonymous Coward]

Antactica: It's a larger land mass the Australia and Europe.

Also Apple will be trying to get penguins everywhere to adopt iTunes.

Where do I send my $250

[craznar]

I'm in Australia and still waiting for somewhere to pay for a stack of tracks that have somehow made it onto my iPod unawares.

How long will I be waiting :(

Re:Where do I send my $250

[michaeldot]

I'm in Australia and still waiting for somewhere to pay for a stack of tracks that have somehow made it onto my iPod unawares.

Perhaps compile a list of the pirated tracks and send it (anonymously) to Sony BMG with a brief note saying:

"By blocking the iTMS Australia, you are losing money from me.

"Multiply my case by the hundreds of thousands of other frustrated consumers in the same situation and see if your accountants think that makes financial sense."

$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period...

[Anonymous Coward]

The awesome thing about the $5.00/month subscription service is that you are paying that $60 per year rental fee for as long as you want to enjoy your music. If I buy a song from iTunes, I can listen to it for 10 years for $.99. If I want to continue to listen to a song I'm renting from Yahoo, it would cost $600 to rent it for 10 years.

Where next?

[Approaching.sanity]

How about one universal store with all the music from every band availible for sale from them and not their record companies.

/idealism

Re:Where next?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.amazon.com/

Re:Where next?

[MadMacSkillz]

Technically, any band or artist can already do this with iTunes. Any artist can get their music posted on iTunes, no matter what their name is. It's the "evil record companies" that are to blame, or perhaps the fact that the artists signed the contracts with them. I am an independent artist on iTunes and I make 66 cents out of 99 cents per song, after Apple and CDBaby take their cuts. I think that's more than fair. I'm making more per song than any hit artist. Granted, my sales don't match up. But still... if a big name artist had his contract expire, he could choose to go independent, make his own albums, and make more than 50% of the profits. It's only a matter of time until the big name artists figure this out. Right now it might not make sense because they still make lots of money selling CD's at stores, but that market is shrinking every single year.

-----

My music on iTunes:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/ viewAlbum?playListId=30843087

Re:Where next?

[grouse]

That's really up to the band, isn't it? They chose to enter into exclusive deals with their record labels.

In the future, you will probably see more choose not to.

Re:Where next?

[xwizbt]

So what stops me recording my own stuff in the backroom and releasing it? Trust me, it's rubbish...

Can you trail through this central hub until you get to the quality stuff, 'cause I'm on there, and so is my neighbour and his dog. Sorry... dawg. We're on there!

It's cheap and free. I'm the best rock band in the world, right, so I deserve to be downloaded. Here I am, on these servers waiting for it. It all costs money... and at the end of it, I'm utter trash, not worth fifty cents. Well... it's up to you...

Re:Where next?

[Richard_at_work]

Because almost all of the commercial bands had huge dollar symbols in their eyes when they first signed up, and thus signed away the rights to their songs for what in essence is a pitiful amount of money, but looks good to 17 year olds. Thus many dont own the distribution rights to their own songs, and its all their own fault.

international next

[a7244270]

I can currently open iTunes and pick any store in any country. However, I cannot actually BUY anything from music stores in other countries. The next logical step is to allow people to buy music from other countries, making the iTMS actually international, unlike the way it is now, "choose country" button notwithstanding.

Re:international next

[Microlith]

No kidding.

I opened up iTunes to look at the Japan store, and what's one of the big things they have available?

"The Complete B'z"

And I love B'z. They kick ass six ways to next tuesday. I'd so be out $170 and several hundred MB of space.

Re:international next

[shawnce]

1) talk to your governmental representatives, labor unions, etc. and get them to remove legal barriers, tariffs, etc. that block such a thing.

2) talk to the folks that hold the publishing rights to the music you want to purchase so that they remove blocks to such a thing.

3) talk to the various music industry representatives and organizations, get them to understand how good it could be.

I assure you Apple doesn't want to have a separate store for every country, it costs them money, sales and time having separate country specific stores.

Re:international next

[Anonymous Coward]

No wait! That's won't work! This is Slashdot, the place where free trade is considered a bad thing, at least in every damn article about outsourcing.

Trade barriers are good, apparently... Sometimes...

Re:international next

[Justin205]

Why can't they, at least, make all the music available in one region available in all the rest?

There's some Japanese music I wouldn't mind being able to buy (particularly some soundtracks from animes - I'm an anime junkie, I admit it! - but some other things, as well), but, until they get all the music in all the regions, I'm going to be stuck using Bittorrent to get the music I want...

And don't mention importing to me, please... ;/ It's a bit too expensive for me.

Re:international next

[Senjutsu]

Why can't they, at least, make all the music available in one region available in all the rest?

Copyright law. Pick any song. Let's call it Song A. Song A can have many different copyright holders in different countries. In the US, Joe may hold Song A's license. In Japan, Takeshi may hold it. If you license it from Joe, you can sell copies of it in the US, but if you sell copies in Japan, you've just violated Takeshi's copyright, and he can sue you into next year. To sell a song universally, Apple would need to work out a license with ALL of that song's copyright holders, which would likely be impossible, since they might all want different restrictions, compensation, etc, etc.

Yes, the system is stupid.

Re:international next

[Justin205]

Oh well... I guess I'll just be sticking with bittorrent then. ;/

Re:international next

[aristotle-dude]

I don't think you /.ers understand economics or how the currency markets work.

Say that you could choose other stores, how much do you think you would pay for songs? The same prices as you pay in your home country's store. Nope. The same price others pay but adjusted for the currency rate you find at online quote sites? Definitely not.

First of all, the rights holders expect to be paid in each market in their home currencies. Second, those rates you see online are mid-market rates which are a blend of buy and sell rates from the market meaning you would not get those rates even if you bought currency directly from the market. Third, your credit card company provides you with a worse than market rate to cover themselves from market fluctuations and because they usually do not buy/sell currency but rather go through a forex company. Finally, they will usually charge a currency conversion fee.

So...

[tidewaterblues]

So does this mean that I will finally be able to get the Japanese music that I like, or will Apple only sell Japanese songs in Japan?

Re:So...

[PipianJ]

Nope. You can still only buy Ayumi Hamasaki and Utada Hikaru if you live in Japan.

Re:So...

[TheoMurpse]

Actually, you can buy Utada Hikaru in America, since she has an English album here (she is an American, after all).

I just couldn't resist plugging an excellent CD. The singles are horrible and make you feel guilty for listening to them, but there are some real odd songs on the album that are just aurally amazing (everyone should listen to Kremlin Dusk at least once in their life).

I would suggest Tokyo Jihen and Sogabe Keiichi actually, if you're looking for some good, recent Japanese music. But that's neither here nor there on /.

Re:So...

[coljac]

I went and bought this track (Kremlin Dusk), and found it far short of a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It sounds like a reasonably typical pop-ballad. Just a warning to the other suggestible readers. :)

Re:So...

[PipianJ]

UTADA is just a shameless attempt by Utada Hikaru to play up to her American R&B roots (which is failing of course). I was far from amazed by the CD, and find her Japanese pieces much better.

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[generic-man]

And now the other extreme statistic:

If I want to rent a million songs from Yahoo and play any 10,000 of them on my portable device: $600 for 10 years.

If I want to buy a million songs from iTunes to load any 10,000 of them on my portable device: $990,000 for 10 years.

Total Tracks

[Doc Ruby]

How many songs are there? From the beginning of recording (say, Edison tubes in 1900, for convenience), how many unique tracks have been recorded? That includes multiple versions, but not reissues/compilations, that have been released to the public? 10 million? 20 million? 50? 100? 500? Who knows?

Re:Total Tracks

[Quiet_Desperation]

*Unique* tracks? Seven.

Re:Total Tracks

[shawnce]

No no the seventh is just the base line from the first, the melody from the fifth, and the lyrics from the eight that was lost.

Re:Total Tracks

[craznar]

Seven - what were the other three ?

Re:Total Tracks

[jakewaage]

According to this: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112256752830098 846,00-search.html?KEYWORDS=music+&COLLECTION=wsji e/archive/ Gracenote (the company that finds out the info about a CD when you put it in your computer) has 50 million tracks in their database... So over 50 million songs... The article, being from the WSJ, is for paid subscribers only, but its quite interesting and talks about much of the stuff relevant to this thread - i.e., why the services don't have all the music you want.

Re:Total Tracks

[larry bagina]

That includes repeat tracks via compilations, greatest hits, etc. Not to mention dupes (I wonder how many tracks would be there if CmdrTaco and Zonk were editing).

Re:Total Tracks

[delete]

Here's the free version.

As the article notes, Gracenote currently has 50 million tracks in their database, while current online offerings aspire to a mere 1.5 million songs. Clearly there is room for improvement.

However, one issue that the article doesn't address is how users might navigate the so-called "celestial jukebox". A large catalogue may be useful if one specifically knows the artist/album/song one is looking for, but browsing a catalogue such as Gracenote is impractical (especially since music can be relatively difficult to classify). I believe that personalisation will play a major role here - I'm still waiting for a comprehensive online service that provides recommendations on a par with those provided by Audioscrobbler. The iTunes store is very weak in this area, while Yahoo seems to have invested significant effort into this area (in terms of technology, it ties in nicely with their search personalisation). It will be interesting to see how important this aspect of the buying experience becomes as the depth of their respective catalogues increases.

Silly Rabbit, IP is for Lawyers

[Anonymous Coward]

Sound recordings/Lyrics/Scores have copyright which is covered under Intellectual Property (IP) law. IP law differs country by country. That it doesn't make sense to consumers is irrelevant to those who collect dollars based on the IP they control.

You don't actually *want* the World Intellectual Property Organization (http://www.wipo.int/ to set world wide rules, do you?

On the flip side...

[MochaMan]

For those of us in Japan, we can't buy from the Canadian/American/European stores either... and the selection of non-English foreign music in the Japanese store is fairly paltry.

I don't like the subscription model

[Infonaut]

I personally think the subscription model is superior.

I dislike subscription services because they amount to extortion. Keep your subscription, or the music is effectively gone (rendered unusable). Assuming that I don't want to break the law, all the music I downloaded is useless to me if I decide to stop using the subscription service. Of course, iTMS files utilize DRM, but I can play tunes on five CPUs and unlimited iPods, as well as rip CDs. So although I don't have unlimited rights to do whatever I like with iTMS files, for my forseeable uses I feel like I'm getting a fair deal.

Beyond my general reticence toward subscription services, Yahoo's Music Unlimited doesn't work for me because:

1) I use an iPod. I don't think I'm alone in this.

2) I use a Mac. Y! Music Unlimited doesn't support the Mac.

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[shark72]

"I dislike subscription services because they amount to extortion. Keep your subscription, or the music is effectively gone (rendered unusable)."

My XM radio subscription is like that, too. I can listen to all the music I want -- IF I keep paying $10 a month. If I stop paying, the radio stops working! Fucktards!

That being said, while the subscription services have their appeal, I'll be sticking with iTMS as well for the reasons you've covered. Their DRM has never gotten in the way of allowing me to do what I want to do with the music I've downloaded.

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[mcrbids]

But what about AllOfMP3.com? It's apparently legal, (Russian copyright laws regarding broadcast) They have a great selection, the prices are good ($1-$3 per album) and download speed is nice, tool. (I routinely hit 1 Mb on my downloads!)

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[greggman]

So, if Apple came out with a subscription service would you try it? Having been with Rhapsody for over 2 years now and completely loving it I gotta say Apple will completely destroy everyone if the added subscription music as well.

The current subscription services let me play songs on as many PCs as I want. I can just only be longed into one at a time. If I go to friend's I install the software and my entire collection comes up on his computer. I can also copy the songs to my portable music player.

I agree with you no iPod support sucks. I really hope Apple adds a subscription serivce though because once you've tried one I don't think you'll ever want to go back to buying music. It's soooooooo liberating to just listen to everything instead of having to think about buying individual songs.

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[DeadMilkman]

Sure, if you like the thought that your money is going towards killing people sure...do it.

(Yes allofMP3 is subowned by the Russian mafia. If you don't believe this you than you have no idea how prevalent they are in Russia.)

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[Anonymous Coward]

If you pay taxes in the U.S. then your money pays for the killing of Iraqi people. So what's your point?

Re:I don't like the subscription model

[Anonymous Coward]

Your money doesn't go to killing people because killing a person does not help in running allofmp3.com's servers or anything else related to buying form allofmp3.com.

Where Next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mars! ...duh

The Moon

[hopews]

Where next? The Moon of course, and then Mars.

What better DRM hegemony is there than the ability to turn off their air when they don't obey the corporate masters?

iTunes Mars!

[Quiet_Desperation]

But seriously, the Ulan Bator area is in serious need of some tunage.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ulaanbaatar,+Mongoli a&spn=0.111235,0.240704&t=k&hl=en

Or that spot that's the most disant land location from any ocean- the Eurasian Pole of Inaccessibility

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46.283333,86.666667 &spn=0.229462,0.481407&t=k&hl=en

Or Mecca and Vatican city with free George Clinton songs. We can end this war if both sides can just be helped to get their funk on.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=21.422224,39.826469 &spn=0.072718,0.120352&t=k&hl=en

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rome&ll=41.902564,12 .452638&spn=0.015445,0.030088&t=k&hl=en

Prediction: Australia

[no_opinion]

The Land Down Under doesn't have an iTunes store, yet, but they have lots of iPod users.

Re:Prediction: Australia

[Anonymous Coward]

And the amusing thing is that it's actually illegal in Australia to put music on that iPod, unless you happen to be the copyright owner. I'm serious: the law in Australia forbids the transferral of music from one media to another. Your baby likes chewing on CDs? Well, you're just going to have to buy another copy of your favourite CD when the baby gets to it. No, you can't burn a copy to protect yourself; that's against the law. You can't rip CDs legally; you can't legally record all your old LPs onto CD; etc., etc.

So the next time you're in Australia, when you see somebody walking around with the tell-tale white headphones, you can rest assured that the odds are well and truly in favour of that person being a lawbreaker.

I stopped using iTunes

[Njovich]

I really wanted to do things legal and pay for all my downloads, so I started using iTunes. Where I live (Netherlands), 90% of the songs I was looking for just missed. I expected there to be few Dutch songs, and there were. But, also many international songs that are there in the US version just miss. New albums are often not available in the local version, but are in the US. I switched back to eMule a few weeks ago, I just missed too many songs.

At least P2P won't make stupid regional stores that lack almost everything, the sound quality is just as good, I don't have to jump through hoops to put the music on my MP3 player, and it's cheaper. Pretty hard to see why it's so hard for the publishers to get a decent music download system working. I'm completely willing to pay for downloads, they just don't offer the option.

Re:I stopped using iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny that.

I *really* wanted to buy a Ferrari, but there is no dealer in my area.

Since they won't sell me one, I just took the one that is parked down the street.

It's their fault, because they don't have a stupid dealership, and one with all the options I want.

I'd be perfectly willing to pay for it if they just would build a dealership and sell me the one in bananna yellow with green stripes.

You (I won't use the words "my friend" because you are not), are a fucking moron.

Just because you don't like the choice on the online store, it does not give you any right whatso-fucking-ever to steal the fucking music.

Idiot.

Re:I stopped using iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction:

I *really* wanted to buy a Ferrari, but there is no dealer in my area.
Since they won't sell me one, I just built a duplicate one myself.

Re:I stopped using iTunes

[Njovich]

Just because you don't like the choice on the online store, it does not give you any right whatso-fucking-ever to steal the fucking music. You might want to read up on Dutch law. The law gives me the right to download music.

Why? Simple:

[Ralph Spoilsport]

the question was asked:

Why must "entertainment media" be regionalized?

and the answer is simple:

the plutocratic shitbags who run the music and entertainment biz are nothing but a bunch of greedy assholes.

I hope that clears up that little mystery for you.

cheers,

HW

Re:Why? Simple:

[decipher_saint]

"and the answer is simple:

the plutocratic shitbags who run the music and entertainment biz are nothing but a bunch of greedy assholes.

I hope that clears up that little mystery for you. "

Well actually, it doesn't, since consumers over here would also like to purchase things from this virtual store. Since there are no shipping or supply constraints it seems to me that they are in fact losing potential money.

Re:Why? Simple:

[kzarling]

True, there are some tracks in the UK, for instance, that are not available in the US. In that case, they are losing potential revenue and it has nothing to do with price-fixing. However, if they made the entire UK iTMS available to those in the US so that we could have access to those exclusive tracks, then they would lose the price-fixing advantage on the songs that are available in both markets. In that case, they stand to lose more than they would gain.

There is certainly some way that they could create a system to open up only those tracks that are currently exclusive to the UK, but implementing new systems costs money, cutting out of the potential profit from making those tracks available.

Re:Why? Simple:

[macshit]

Well actually, it doesn't, since consumers over here would also like to purchase things from this virtual store. Since there are no shipping or supply constraints it seems to me that they are in fact losing potential money.

Er, the plutocratic shitbags still think it's the '50s... or rather, they think if they stick their fingers in their ears and hold their breath hard enough, they can make things be like the '50s.

March of the penguins...

[Quiet_Desperation]

...each one with an iPod.

I smell a crossover advert.

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[clgoh]

If I want to continue to listen to a song I'm renting from Yahoo, it would cost $600 to rent it for 10 years.

...or you could buy it for $0.79.

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically the rental service is only a better deal if you buy more than 5 songs every month for the rest of your music listening life. I tend to buy about 20 songs a year, so Yahoo would cost me three times as much money. I don't really like the idea of renting music either - I prefer to own it.

more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[mblase]

According to AnimeNN, Apple's US iTunes Music Store has expanded their collection of Japanese J-pop and anime soundtrack downloads at the same time the Japanese store was opened. I'm hard-pressed to find any additions, but then again, I'm not much of a fan.

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you implying that there are more anime and game osts in the US store than the Japanese store? If not, it very well may be the case; there appear to be absolutely none at all. Very disappointing, indeed.

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[failedlogic]

I was hoping this would be the case. But sadly, I can't find much.

Cowboy Bebop, for instance, only has one "CDs'" length (13 songs) of music on iTunes where I know there any many more songs. I've searched for Robotech and Macross - nada. I'd love to get the Kenshin (OVA) soundtrack off iTunes but its not there - and its well over $40.

Overall, though, I'm more interested in getting some J-POP stuff. Interestingly, a friend of mine who recently stayed in Japan for a year tells me that you can rent CDs (full length and singles) from local stores for a reasonable price!

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[Microlith]

What's funny is that CD isn't even an official Cowboy Bebop album, just a collection of remixes.

(Bebop, incidentally, has 4 core OSTs, a 4 CD collection featuring random unreleased bits, and at least three mini-albums, none of which have had a US release yet.)

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[Have Blue]

Switch to Browse view- there are new Anime, J-Pop, and Kayokyoku (what is this?) genres. Something's wrong with the store though, so I'm unable to see the music in them.

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[michaelnz]

Kayoukyoku is just the Japanese word for popular music.

It's important for the grandparent and other's to note is that what people think of as popular Anime or music in the states or other Western countries is frequently not all that popular in Japan. Very few Japanese right now are even familiar with Cowboy Bebop and those that are think of the show as being quite old and unpopular.

The most popular Anime in Japan are Doraemon (a story of a blue, earless, robot cat who can pull things out of a tummy pouch strictly for deus-ex-machina purposes) and Sazae-san, a television Anime about a mother who lives a very Japanese life and does simple, everyday things.

Most Anime that is popular in the US is rarely known by Japanese audiences, primarily I believe because the stuff that sells well in Japan references Japanese culture in a way that would translate poorly to other countries audiences. When Sazae-san's husband brings home warm sweet potatoes in winter, American audiences would have a hard time understanding the seasonal and cultural associations of such a moment.

Meanwhile, every culture seems to understand the language of big-ass-robot-ese.

Re:more J-pop and anime soundtracks in US store

[jandrese]

Both of those shows are very very old though. They're also not licensed in the States AFAIK. Fansubbers don't have a easy time getting the early episodes and it's hard to get people excited about old stuff anyway (although there is a contingent of Doraemon fans in the states).

On the other hand, most of the Japanese guys I know consider Doraemon a little kids show and Sazae-san their grandparent's show, so maybe they aren't represtative of the popluation at large that pparently loves those shows.

Windows only...

[Anonymous Coward]

iTunes lets me listen to my purchased music on my Windows box, my Mac PowerBook, and my iPod.

Anything besides iTunes is Windows only, non-iPod only.

Apple is the only cross-platform solution, as weird as that may sound.

Re:Windows only...

[j.bellone]

Except you can't listen purchased music on another MP3 player. Bummer. So it looks like Apple just sucked $100-$300, plus whatever you paid for songs. Bummer.

Re:Windows only...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's interesting, but has nothing to do with the point that iTunes + iPod is the only cross-platform solution. If you buy music online from iTunes, you can listen to it on a Mac or a Windows computer, or both, or an iPod. If you buy music online from anywhere else, you are forever stuck with Windows and forever denied the ultimate music player - the iPod. Bummer.

Re:Windows only...

[d34thm0nk3y]

WRONG! The only truly cross-platform solution is Emusic. Non-DRM .mp3 files that actually _can_ be played anywhere.

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[generic-man]

Right, but the whole idea is that you can create your own radio station: you can download thousands of songs that you might like and buy only those that you want to keep.

People subscribe to satellite radio for $13/month, so I don't see what's so far-fetched about $5/month for even more music selections. Sure, you don't "own" the music (inasmuch as it's desirable to own DRMed 128kbps copies of music) but you do get to enjoy as much as you like for a reasonable price.

Dude. The question isn't "where next?"

[cherrycoke]

...the question is, when will the studios open up their gi-normous back catalogs for digital download? Decades of out-of-press, cool-ass music which could be a source of free revenue for the labels are languishing in magnetic-tape form in what I hope are climate-controlled vault conditions.

I think keeping old music on ice is the same as saying you don't want money.

And I hereby acknowledge that this post is only pretending to be shocked at the long-term, and evidently continuing idiocy of music labels.

It's better than about right! :)

[kollivier]

Depending on the album, at 150 or 200 yen per song, albums can become quite a bit cheaper. For example, singles CDs, which typically cost anywhere between 800-1200 yen in Japan, are about 400-500 yen on iTunes. That's a nice discount! A 12 song album would be between 1800-2400 yen, which is also significantly cheaper. Jack Johnson's 14 track album was actually 1500 yen, which is a really good deal.

The unfortunate part, though, is that their selection is really just so-so. I couldn't find X-Japan, Tube, or Southern All Stars, all very big bands in Japan. I also couldn't find many newer favorites, like SMAP, Orange Range, L'Arc en Ciel, Aiko, etc. And anime fans would be disappointed to know that there really aren't many anime songs on there, aside from "Sonic X" songs. :) Well, they're just starting so hopefully things will improve, but it does give the impression that the Japanese market is even more hesitant to embrace an online download service than the US market was.

Lame pandering to marketing strategies

[koreth]

iTMS in Japan is great! If you're in Japan. Which I'm not, so thanks to the record companies' annoying and self-defeating marketing strategies (I know! Let's make it impossible to buy artist X's work in country Y! We'll make tons more money that way!) this does me about as much good as the US iTMS did for people in Japan.

I've started listening to a bunch of Mandarin-language music lately, and for track-at-a-time sampling, I pretty much have no choice but to listen to unlicensed Internet radio stations (= piracy) or download from P2P networks (= piracy). I'd happily pay to sample a few more tracks by the artists I've heard on those radio stations, but there's no way for me to do it, and it's not worth paying through the nose to import a CD from overseas only to find that the track I heard was the only one on the disc worth listening to.

Oh well, yet another case of "I want to give them my money, but they won't let me." (See: DVD region coding, etc.) Guess I need a fancy MBA degree to see how that makes good business sense.

Hell??

[Anonymous Coward]

>>"Where next?"

how about hell?

Paid radio?

[jscotta44]

Good for you. Personally, I prefer to get my radio for free. When I spend money on recorded music, then I prefer to own it. IMHO, the subscription model sucks. The labels have to like it though-you get to pay them for life.

iTunes in foreign markets

[interstellar_donkey]

One thing I'd be curious to find out is the amount of piracy that goes on in individual foreign nations, and how that affects the availability of legal music download services.

While I don't have any hard figures, if I had to guess there would be a strong one. In other words, music services like iTunes sees a particular country start to dive into to the illegal swapping of regional music on a P2P service, and uses that to gauge the market.

I can't help but wonder if p2p services, while fostering illegal distribution of copyrighted material, are actually warming new markets to the idea of getting music from the Internet instead of conventional CDs.

I highly doubt iTunes (or any of the other for-pay music download services) would have seen any success in the US if we hadn't had Nappster introduce the masses to the ease and convenience of keeping music in a digital format back in the 90s. The MP3 format in general would probably not achieved the status as a household word if it wasn't for p2p networks introducing us to it and making it popular, not to mention the sales of mp3 players like the iPod or the massive amount of mp3 ready audio devices (when I last purchased a new car stereo, I made sure that it would play mp3s, and I love it. My sister just bought a new car with a stock radio that plays mp3s.)

The question I'm getting at, and I'm just wondering out loud here, is how much profit has been realized by various industries stemming from the illegal swapping of files online? My guess would be that number is pretty high, since if it wasn't for p2p networks (or various other methods which have been used to swap music without permission from copyright holders), mp3s would be still be stuck in the domain of hobbyists. There would be no iPods or mp3 enabled CD players, and ultimately no iTunes.

An easy way to help quantify that figure would be to see how successful iTunes becomes in nations with a relatively high rate of illegal file swapping compared with a nation whose population is otherwise is into music, but the culture of file swapping never caught on.

The notable exception would be China, since their cultural attitudes towards media piracy is so lax that any attempt to legitimize to process by charging money would probably be met with indifference.

Eurasian Pole of Inaccessibility

[zippthorne]

Is it seriously called that by any official body? That's the best name ever for a place (far better than "four-corners") I half expect that if you have a meeting there you'd need to use the "cone of silence"

Re:Eurasian Pole of Inaccessibility

[Quiet_Desperation]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_of_inaccessibili ty

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[Anonymous Coward]

People subscribe to satellite radio for $13/month

You mispelled "fools."

Only a complete fool would pay for something they can get legally for free. Here in the Twin Cities, I can even get classical, jazz, and pop music completely free and commercial free, thanks to Minnesota Public Radio. Why would I consider paying a dime for satelite radio? If I was willing to spend that kind of money, I'd become a member of MPR. Fortunately, the government has already taken some of my money to prop them up, so I can enjoy it all for free thanks to a small percentage of listeners who do choose to join.

what about korea?

[nsda's_deviant]

comon apple, how about korea? what about an apple store in aku? please? i know its a looooong shot but comon, its one of the most wired places in the world!

It's all about Geography.

[tivoKlr]

I don't subscribe to sat radio, but I'm considering it in a headunit upgrade in the near future.

However, the reason some people subscribe has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with geography. I live 100 miles west of Denver, Colorado, and on that trip into Denver I have to switch between 4 different Colorado Public Radio stations and part of the time there isn't any coverage, so having the convenience of sat radio which works great in the Rocky Mountains, and has the same channels regardless of whatever mountain pass you just drove over.

That is why I'm seriously considering "Sirius"...

Let me know...

[MochaMan]

I'd love to know where these magical backstreet markets are where I can get songs for under 200 yen! You see, every shop I've gone to charges between 3000 and 4000 yen per CD, so a whole disc for "much less" than 2000 would be amazing.

Let me know... I'm waiting! Shibuya-ku or Meguro-ku would be ideal, but really anywhere in Tokyo would be ok.

Note: if these "backstreet markets" which I have never seen or heard of are in fact real, I'll be forever grateful ;)

Re:Let me know...

[NaruVonWilkins]

You should be able to find bootlegs in Ikebukuro...

Re:Let me know...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a healthy collection of Ikebukuro 'eki-mae' DVDs :-)

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[generic-man]

I like electronic music. I don't know of a single radio station that plays it around the clock, certainly not commercial-free. It's not hard to unleash StreamRipper on a DI station here and there, but satellite radio has several channels I like. If I traveled frequently enough to exhaust my iPod's feeble little 8-hour battery, I might subscribe.

What if people like '50s music, or samba music, or liberal political commentary, or conservative political commentary, or Major League Baseball, and want to listen to their genre of choice on long road trips? Are they "fools"?

Good post, though. You implied that public radio is the only kind of broadcast audio worth listening to, and I've taken that bait.

J-List's Take

[alexburke]

Peter Payne, the American-born founder of J-List, a source for all things Japanese, had this to say in today's instalment of his regular newsletter:

"After a long wait, Apple's iTunes Japan music store has finally opened, allowing customers here to download Japanese and international music for around $1.75 per song. Despite the large number of digital-savvy users in Japan, it's not at all surprising to me that it took so long for Apple to get the iTunes store up and running. Japan can be a very conservative place, and to big companies with established businesses, nothing is more terrifying than change, any change at all. Apple has had to navigate between greedy record companies who have kept the prices of CDs at the artificially high price of $30 for decades, and industry groups like the Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers (JASRAC) and the Recording Industry of Japan (RIAJ), who have closed ranks against any kind of digital distribution of music that doesn't guarantee more profits for them than conventional CDs. A big problem was JASRAC's insistence that Apple follow "Japan's rules" when it came to selling music online, which apparently meant that the industry group was to receive 7.7% of every song sold in addition to what the actual copyright holders receive. It's all very silly when you think about the fact that in Japan, you can go into any one of thousands of CD rental shops and rent a whole album for $3 or less. Sadly, Japan's copyright-happy record industry lacked the vision to allow Apple to sell Japanese music to customers outside of Japan, so worldwide fans of JPOP are shut out from participating in the Japan iTMS. Apple isn't the first company that's had to endure pressure from the establishment in Japan: Amazon was blocked from selling products below list price on their site here, since price fixing is still allowed for some products, like books and CDs. If there's one good thing that's come from the past decade of recession in Japan, it's that many of Japan's closed economic doors have been forced open, letting the light of competition and common sense flood in. If you want to see a hilarious commercial that marries the iPod with Sazae-san, one the most popular anime in Japan's history, here's the link: http://www.jbox.com/sazae (Quicktime required)"

Not sure that flag works...

[not-enough-info]

Does anyone else think that that new ITMS Japan icon looks like the eyeball of Satan?

Re:Not sure that flag works...

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Yes! Also, at the the country selection page in iTMS, the Japan icon is right at the middle of the page! Very spooky.

Sony has their own music store

[AKosygin]

Sony has their own music store, that is why you do not see any music that is distributed or produced by Sony.

The Sony online music has been around for a long time before even there was discussion about iTunes Japan.

http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/

scary

[AussieVamp2]

You try telling a polar bear that she has to put up with DRM then.

japanese pressings

[uptoeleven]

Now here's a thing. I'm a record dealer (ex-programmer) and know that Japanese pressings command high prices here in the west. Reasons given for this are variously:

1.) they use better quality vinyl in Japan so the music sounds better
2.) the pressings are of a higher quality in Japan so the music sounds better
3.) the writing looks cool and you don't see Japanese records every day of the week

A similar reason is given for why people collect Japanese cds - unique cover art, better processes to produce the cd etc. etc.

Will iTunes Japan be using the same naff, low quality, lossy compressed files we get here in the west or will their files be of a better quality?

I think we should be told...

Re:$600 to listen to a song over a 10 year period.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you prefer to own your music neither of these schemes is the way to go. Even iTms shares more characteristics with renting than buying, the bigest showstopper is that with iTms you can not resell something thats yours. Apple can also change the licence retroactively for all songs in your collection.

Of course it costs more

[Daimaou]

Most companies in the world, including Japanese ones, act like the Japanese crap wads of ichi-man-en bills and the people there end up getting screwed over on just about everything they buy. Of course iTunes is going to charge more over there.

iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[greggman]

It's not at all clear the iTMS will do well in Japan. iPod is NOT #1 in Japan. On top of which music CD rental is legal in Japan and the Blockbuster of Japan, Tsutaya, has CD rentals in all of their stores. You can rent the CD for 300yen ($3) and rip the whole thing, why would anyone want to pay 150 to 200 yen per song when they can get the whole CD for 300 yen?

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[HalfFlat]

Actually, I read in the (English language) paper today that the various iPods are positioned at ranks 1, 2 and 4 in current sales of portable mp3 players. At least in one sense, one could make the case that iPod is #1 in Japan.

Certainly see a lot of iPods on the street.

Have to agree about CD rentals though.

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[greggman]

You can see the rankings for almost anything in Japan at Kakaku.com

http://kakaku.com/ranking/itemview/mp3.htm

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[2nd Post!]

We now know that, after 4 days, Japan has downloaded 1 million tracks (it took the US market a week), blowing past Sony's online store, which only sold 450,000 tracks in a month.

I'd call it a success.

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[Durf]

Congratulations, you've now discovered that the Sony toy is the best-selling item on kakaku.com. Don't confuse that with the whole market or anything, though.

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[Durf]

Whoops! And now that I look closer at the bottom of that page's chart, I find that it shows the top rankings for page hits at kakaku.com. So basically, forget it.

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[greggman]

I won't. I also checked the 3 largest electronics chains in Japan. Yodobashi Camera, Sakuraya and Bic Camera and all of them do not list the iPod as their #1 seller (and they do sell them)

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[aristotle-dude]

That's great. Guess what? That does not equal sales numbers. You can almost be guaranteed that most of the iPod sales in Japan were directly from Apple via the retail store and online.

Re:iTMS not a shoe-in in Japan

[Durf]

I'd be interested in links to those sales figures. The only similar info I could find on Yodobashi.com was, again, the number of *hits* that product pages get.

price slashing

[raurublock]

Before iTMS, purchasing a song online had costed about 250 yen in Japan. Yesterday most major online music stores announced to slash their price to 150 yen. Thanks much, Jobs!

Surprised you had to ask. . .

[Ohreally_factor]

The ones and zeros will be of a much higher quality than here in the west. Same bit rates. Same file sizes. But an expert such as yourself will be able to hear the difference.

of course!

[uptoeleven]

> The ones and zeros will be of a much higher quality than here in the west. Same bit rates. Same file sizes. But an expert such as yourself will be able to hear the difference.

Of course - they'll sound warmer...

Re:of course!

[Ohreally_factor]

I take it that you are one of the lucky few to own one of those prototype/bespoke iPods that have a built in tube amplifier.

Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra

[JLavezzo]

Does this mean that the songs on iTMS Japan will also be available elsewhere?

I'm a big fan of the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra (SkaPara), a quirky fluid and flexible group of musicians who have been performing and recording for almost 30 years. The only catch is they have gotten zero notoriety in the US and the only way to get their music is to buy expensive "import" CDs on line.

There are also thousands of Japanese, Japanese-Americans and students of Japanese in the U.S. and U.K. who would love to be able to buy Japanese language music for $.99 a track.

Re:Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra

[Durf]

That's great . . . Unfortunately the price is 200 yen. Are they willing to pay that?

I think eventually this will all morph into a new form of file-trading network. People who can buy from the US iTMS will buy tracks and run them through Hymn and send them on to folks in Japan, who in return will do the same for stuff available over here. It will be done on a trade basis or through PayPal. Everyone gets the goods they want.

Who cares about iTunes/Napster etc. ?

[TractorBarry]

Honestly who cares about another crappy iTunes store ?

To me the idea of paying ANY money over a token amount (say 5 UK pence) for a piece of music encoded in a cruddy lossy format such as mp3 is absurd - Especially when you do the maths.

In the UK it apprently costs 79p a track from iTunes (As I don't use it myself this is second hand knowledge) whereas a CD can be bought online for between £ 5 to £ 10. So if a CD contains an average 10 tracks that makes it between 50p to 100 p per track with each track being available in full 16bit 44.1 Khz WAV quality.

The crucial point being that you can then use something like the excellent cdex and you can rip your own MP3s with much better quality and with NO DRM.

Sorry but I simply don't understand why anyone would use something crappy like iTunes or an online subscription service. They're a total waste of money.

MP3 is a great "poor quality casette tape" or "am radio quality" replacement but it's the equivalent of buying a scaled down black & white photocopy of a painting for about the price of the real thing. Just because it can be done "over das interweb" doesn't make it a good idea.

And if you're using iTunes etc. simply to "try before you buy" then why not use BitTorrent/UseNet/Your p2p app of choice. instead ?

Pah kids today, stick a "made for l33t internet" tag on it and they'll buy any old crap.

Re:Who cares about iTunes/Napster etc. ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I never noticed that my MP3s sound like AM radio...

Oh wait, they don't. Never mind.

Re:Who cares about iTunes/Napster etc. ?

[2nd Post!]

The Light in the Piazza has 20 tracks for £7.99, or 40p per track
How much does the CD cost? In the US it's about $16, or $10.99 online. Townsend records lists it for £13.99

So the appeal is that, at least comparing sources I have access to, that albums cost a little more than half as much online vs offline.

If you only like one track, it costs 79p. How much does it cost to buy one song on CD? Oh, right, £13.99 or $16, which is ridiculously expensive.

Do you see the value proposition yet? It's called 'price'. For some subset of the population the iTMS is cheaper than real CDs.

Re: Being digital

[Anonymous Coward]

gold.

now you can cut, copy and paster yourself

tube amp'ed ipod

[uptoeleven]

I think you'll find it's bi-amped - one amp for each side. It's not quite as portable as a standard iPod but listening to it you almost don't notice the mp3 remnants. Oh and it plays flac & shn too...