Laser Surgery Goes Online

Ignat writes "Scientists in Australia successfully performed a laser surgery in a Southern California laboratory via the Internet. RoboLase, the new technology used showed that realtime surgeries can be performed from distant locations. Scientists from UC Irvine, UC San Diego and the University of Queensland used RoboLase to produce surgical holes in a distinct pattern of less than one micron in diameter (1/1000th of a millimeter) in single cells."

Comments

Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[The I Shing]

Kinda gives new meaning to the phrase blue screen of death, doesn't it? Ba dum bum! Thank you very much, I'll be here all week! Remember to tip your bartender!

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

imagine the evil hackers who get in the middle of a surgery and instead point the device at the persons penis/vagina and start digging away!! wooohooo!!!
 
  that would be cool

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

I support our troops more than you do.

Sir, I doubt that. I've got five balanced on my shoulders (in a nice pyramid) as I type this.

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[commander_gallium]

What about lag?

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[saskboy]

I was wondering if packet loss can cause cell loss. Hopefully they use Burnproof buffer underrun protection.

And you know how dirty keyboards are, so I hope the surgeon washes his hands, and uses a new keyboard each time.

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[Metteyya]

Now imagine another editorial like "Internet heart surgery going underway" and the knife-holding computer being /.-ed...

Re:Geez, what happens if the computer crashes?

[pimpsoftcom]

So what happens if they screw up and the computers are working fine? Do they do what kiddie gamers do once they get fragged and blame the 'Damn Lag' for there own incompetence or mal-practice?

"its not our fault you no longer have a arm, its the computers and the insurance wont pay you either as you knew the risks. There is nothing else we can do for you now, but I assure you lobotomies are coming back in fashion."

i cant wait

[penguinix]

i can't wait for my doctor to be outsourced to India.

Re:i cant wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Operators required:

No need for insurance
No need for formal qualifications
No need for customer service skills
On-the-job-training provided

Re:i cant wait

[Sethus]

I actually asked a good friend of the family about this (a radiologist), why can't they outsource doctors? At the least radiologists, since all they have to do is read xray films! To an extent, some places already do, for instance, in the past doctors had to be on call all night long, ready to read films, sleep very badly, and generally screw up their sleep scheduals. Now they just send the pictures to Australia past 11pm.

But when I asked him about outsourcing, he gave me two good reasons why it'd never happen. THe first is many people prefer to see and know their doctor. To be able to talk with them, I mean, the doctor is probably going to care about you more if he's actually interacting with you! Secondly, is the fact that if hospitals tried this, the doctors would go on strike in an instant. Generally, doctor's don't work "for" a hospital, they are given permission to set up shop inside the hopital in the space provided. What this means, is a group of radiologists do work out of a hospital (in this case, Elyria Hospital near Cleveland) in exchange for the hospital providing them patients. In return, they provide excellent an radiology department :)

Re:i cant wait

[timeOday]

i can't wait for my doctor to be outsourced to India.

Sarcasm or no, I happen to agree. You hardly ever see the doctor anyways. Analyzing lab results and scans is something that can easily be done remotely.

Cutting and sewing will probably be the last things outsourced, but you know what? Medical care is currently so expensive that many people in some parts of the world simply go without. Better to take your chances than die for sure.

Re:i cant wait

[value_added]

i can't wait for my doctor to be outsourced to India.

There was a program on one of the commercial teevee networks a few days ago that showed how many people, Americans included, are taking medical vacations in Thailand. Seems the price of a doctor's visit there is around twenty bucks, and the doctors, for the most part, are American educated and trained. The cost for treatment is generally one-third to one-half of that stateside, and post-op recovery can be relaxing in luxury hotel style accomodations, or lying on the beach.

The point, if there is one, is that the U.S. has no monopoly on world-class healthcare, or anything else for that matter.

Re:i cant wait

[Anonymous Coward]

THey Chant "ALLAAA AKBAR" after they make the first cut.

Re:i cant wait

[cg0def]

so just because you are scared that an indian guy might operate on you I have to drive 700 miles to get a surgery from a better doctor?

Re:i cant wait

[Profane MuthaFucka]

Outsource to India and pass the savings on to YOU? More likely, the medical companies and hospitals will pocket the difference.

Yeah, but..

[bigwavejas]

Who's gonna be the first sucker?

GaaaAAAggghhh, My eye!!!

Re:Yeah, but..

[John Courtland]

"Ze goggles! Dey do NOTHING!"

Re:Yeah, but..

[Anonymous Coward]

hehehehehe

Re:Yeah, but..

[GoldAnt]

[Patient] "er, why is the knife...dancing...?" ugh... wonder where it goes from there =D

First quadratic polynomial post

[polynomial_zeroes]

0.001 mm
1 post

1.0e-3 and 1 are the zeroes of

x^2 - 1.001x +0.001

Bandwidth or Latency

[matt21811]

"This was a particularly noteworthy accomplishment, because it demonstrated the amount of computer bandwidth (1 gigabyte/second) needed by the Australia and California research groups to observe and grab a fast-moving sperm with virtually no detectible delay in image transmission between the two laboratories."

It seems even the people who did this have no idea of the difference between bandwidth and latency. The above quote is from the original press release.

When I first read the title I thought someone had their lasik done this way, mostly because my wife had her lasik surgery done in Australia (we live there). She wrote about the experience http://www.sharonslasiksurgery.com/ if you want a laypersons point of view.

Doing it remotely is not something I would volunteer for and I suppose that is exactly where this technology is heading.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[NoTheory]

Precisely. I hope they have enough forethought to do laser pulses with preset durations rather than something crazy like having to wait for a kill signal. That would, presumably, be bad time to have a connection lag or drop.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[superpulpsicle]

Laser surgery can control cells in your body. Lasik mainly refers to the eye. I think the article is pointing out more than the potential of improving Lasik eye procedures... which last I checked at www.lasikdisaster.com is filled with stories.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[Trizor]

On the contrary it would require both high bandwidth and low latency. Latency is not so much the issue, as with a small ammount of data it can be brought down to insignificant levels.

The issue is bringing a large ammount of data at the same near zero latency. The precise movements of a robot, and the high resolution images from high-zoom microscopes. Try that with a 1200 baud modem. Not happening with near zero latency. You need the speed to 1) compete with other signals 2) pipe a large ammount of data.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[cbreaker]

If you think the article was about Lasik, you didn't read it =) Not one mention of Lasik, at all. They grabbed some sperm with lasers, and they performed laser procedures on single cells.

However, about Lasik - there's been people that have had bad experiences with it. While I feel terrible for it, it's not the procedure that's the problem, it's the people doing it. More importantly, it's the diagnosis beforehand. Not everyone should do Lasik. Some eyes just won't do well with the procedure. Unfortunately, the doctors miss the signs of eye problems and go ahead with the procedure anyways. Maybe they need more research performed on what could cause a bad Lasik procedure, I don't know.

But I know quite a few people that have had it done with amazing results. No more contact lenses, no more glasses. Vision better then 20/20. So many Lasik procedures are done every day that the number of successful attempts *vastly* outweighs the number of failed. Enough to consider it a very safe procedure.

Again, I feel terrible for people that lose their vision before of a failed Lasik operation. But, there is a risk, and it's a known and proven risk. Before anything that affects something as important as my eyes, I would seek not a second, but a third and maybe forth opinion before doing anything.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[RedWizzard]

"This was a particularly noteworthy accomplishment, because it demonstrated the amount of computer bandwidth (1 gigabyte/second) needed by the Australia and California research groups to observe and grab a fast-moving sperm with virtually no detectible delay in image transmission between the two laboratories."

It seems even the people who did this have no idea of the difference between bandwidth and latency. The above quote is from the original press release.

I don't think they're confused at all. That sentence states that they needed 1GB/s at low latency. I guess the bandwidth part is more noteworthy, particularly if it is over the net as implied. Low latency is not particularly difficult to achieve.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[88NoSoup4U88]

I read your wife's site, but I couldn't help but notice that the aftermath is missing from the report : Did she have any pains after the Lasik operation ? Did irritations occur ? How long did it take before it was all healed ?

As the site's purpose seems to be to inform people of those eye-laser surgeries, information as this is necesary for me to get a good view of the overall process.

And did I understand it right that the whole procedure gets done without an anestethic (sp?) ? Or did she leave that part out too.

Good writeup anyways (considering eye-surgery myself) but just wanted to point out that those obvious things (which people would want to know) are missing out from her report.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[mattyrobinson69]

latancy would be bloody important in this case:

doctor: START_CUTTING (ping time 5ms)
server: STARTING_CUTTING(ping time 5ms)
doctor: LEFT_A_BIT(ping time 5ms)
doctor: LEFT_A_BIT(ping time 5ms)
doctor: LEFT_A_BIT(ping time 5ms)
doctor: STOP (ping time 1s)

that would cause a patient to lose a lot of the left side of whatever it was that was being opened up.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[KiloByte]

This will put the whining about ping delays, widespread among players of Quake-like games, onto a completely new level.

Also, just guess what will happen if a router is using MS software and goes onto its monthly reboot. In normal cases, things will get routed around in no noticeable time, but in this cases, the downtime won't end in just a rocket that you fail to dodge.

I can't see it used over public Internet. It's simply WAAAY too unreliable.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[AuMatar]

The real problem is so many people having lasik to fix slight problems. If you only barely need glasses, lasik is an unnecessary risk. Get contacts, or just wear glasses. Unless your eyes are extremely bad, it is not a smart idea to do surgery on them, since any surgery has a risk of failure.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[matt21811]

It's great to get an independent review.
I'll get Sharon to add the requested missing bits. Yes, they use anesthetic. You'd hope so cause they cut an access lid in the "skin" on the eye! She said she dont feel any pain during the surgery but you have discomfort aferwards. She was extremely light sensitive. Check back at the site in a week and I'll have uploaded what she has to say about the rest.
Thanks for your comments!

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[nizo]

...it demonstrated the amount of computer bandwidth (1 gigabyte/second) needed by the Australia and California research groups...

Now I know what I can add to my proposal to upgrade our network at work:With our new gigabit network, it will now be possible to offer remote lasik operations for all employees. Sweet.

Re:Bandwidth or Latency

[tabrnaker]

You might want to look into learning how to use your eyes properly as well.

I used to think about saving up for laser, but now i can see without glasses. and perfectly too, so much better than when i used to wear contacts/glasses.

No thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want nobody to DDOS my eyeball thank you very much.

This Should Lower Every MD's Handicap

[Quirk]

"RoboLase, the new technology used showed that realtime surgeries can be performed from distant locations."

So we can expect to see RoboLase terminals on golf courses real soon.

Alittle lag and...

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG MY EYE!

Re:Alittle lag and...

[Anonymous Coward]

In South Korea, only old people get laser eye surgery in RL.

Linksys Router

[Mean_Nishka]

Will this work with my Linksys router?

Re:Linksys Router

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you downgrade the firmware.

Great...

[MrFlannel]

Now we're going to need tin foil sunglasses to protect us from "free trials" of LASIK from spam?

The first eye's free!

And here comes the outsourcing.....

[Proudrooster]

This is great, soon I can call India from the U.S. and get someone to both fix my Dell and perform surgery. I just hope the link doesn't go down during the operation.

Laugh, it's funny, ok?

Re:And here comes the outsourcing.....

[tubacolossus]

Laugh, it's funny, ok?

I'd laugh if I didn't detect such an ugly undercurrent of racism and cultural superiority in Proudrooster's post. Calls like these may seem funny, but it is simply racism hidden underneath a veil of humour. The fact is, Indian doctors can be just as capable as doctors from the US, or other Western nations. The same goes for the IT industry. People who are against outsourcing are just trying to peddle their vision of cultural superiority. It's a modern version of "allegiance to the tribe". You'd think such primitive thought would have died out. If you oppose racism, then oppose so-called jokes like these on slashdot! If we all work together, we can discredit the myths and work towards a more intelligent discussion.

Re:And here comes the outsourcing.....

[CyricZ]

Having dealt recently with a doctor from India, I must disagree with you. Part of being a doctor is having excellent communication skills. You must be able to explain to patients in a clear and concise fashion what the problem is, and what steps must be taken to remedy the situation. The doctor I dealt with lacked such skills. While perhaps he was a fantastic doctor, his verbal skills left a very bad impression on me.

Now while there are surely Indian doctors who have an excellent command of the English language and superior communication skills, there are many who do not. And nothing is more frustrating than dealing with a doctor who, even though he or she may be the best surgeon or doctor in the world, cannot communicate efficiently and effectively with patients. It is the bad experiences that people will remember most.

Rather than screaming "r@cIsm!1!!" whenever somebody points out such problems, perhaps you should be encouraging such doctors to improve their communication skills. Most decent people would gladly recommend a talented Indian doctor who is able to communicate well, without thinking twice about that doctor's race.

Re:And here comes the outsourcing.....

[TapeCutter]

Lighten up mate, it has nothing to do with race or ability, it's all about money and language barriers.

Re:And here comes the outsourcing.....

[belg4mit]

Get a clue, and maybe try reading other posts first (thousand and one bad jokes about lag). In addition, people want doctors they can actually meet and talk to... it's one of the reasons why HMOs are so loathed.

Mini me...

[Stormwatch]

...stop humping the "laser". Maybe you and the "laser" should go get a freakin room.

Hidden racism

[tubacolossus]

Calls like these may seem funny, but users like penguinix hide their version of racism in a veil of humour. The fact is, Indian doctors can be just as capable as doctors from the US, or other Western nations. The same goes for the IT industry.

People who are against outsourcing are just trying to peddle their vision of cultural superiority. It's a modern version of "allegiance to the tribe". You'd think such primitive thought would have died out, especially on a tech site like this. But the users of /. continue to astound me.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

hey twinky, maybe if you took that stick out of your ass you could use it to redecorate your hut

Re:Hidden racism

[teknomage1]

Ever think you're taking things a little too deep? I mean really? I'm sur that comment was made precisely because he hates Indians, and not for the more probably reason of the absurdity of haveing doctors do surgery remotely across the globe just to save money. If you were so pro-Indian you'd fight for them to have equal wages with American IT workers instead of complaining that Americans don't respect them. You make me sick, tubacolossus.

Re:Hidden racism

[penguinix]

Dude i'm not a racist, have a sense of humor man. Also outsourcing is a very real problem and is really screwing up our economy.

Re:Hidden racism

[merkytoadstool]

I agree with the parent to an extent, but with some qualifications.

Firstly, I think it's just a fact of the world that the doctors in India may not actually be as qualified as those in the US. India is still a developing nation. It has had massive improvements in infrastructure and education over the past 10 years, but I don't think there's enough experience or expertise for Indian doctors to be performing laser eye surgery online yet. (Not to mention the problems of internet congestion!)

Secondly, I don't think all opponents of outsourcing are "by definition" racist. There may be legitimate reasons for opposing outsourcing (e.g. protecting local employment). However, I would say many posters on slashdot (definitely the grandparent) have a "USA-all-the-way" superiority complex when it comes to IT and outsourcing to India. Indian employees can provide just as good service as local ones, once you get behind the "LOLOMG thiS GUYS IN INDiA!!!11!" inanity.

Re:Hidden racism

[Virak]

The fact is, Indian doctors can be just as capable as doctors from the US, or other Western nations. The same goes for the IT industry.

Yes, they can be, but SURPRISE! Most of them aren't.

Re:Hidden racism

[ciroknight]

Or, perhaps, he's just pissed that his job, his American-based job, is being sent to India.

No offense to the Indians, but if they are just as capable as we are at doing our jobs, let them do their jobs in their country. Last I recall, their country isn't in the best of state...

Meanwhile unemployement here suffers due to us being out jobs, and well, there's really no solution for us. Companies just want to lower their bottom lines, and the best way to do that is fire employees and either pay a machine to do the work, or pay someone way, way less for it.

I'm not racist; I have many good friends who are Indian, Chinese, Slovic, and other races, and I have no problem with them being here in America working. My problem comes when the jobs here are being moved out of our country. We've almost reversed our position from the industrial revolution, when people would migrate here just to work. And we're losing our tech crown because nobody's willing to innovate because it costs too much. These are the things that piss us off, and it's not about racism. If you want to talk about hidden racism, go talk to one of the news *coughFOXcough* networks talking about the Middle East situtation.

Re:Hidden racism

[tubacolossus]

I do have a sense of humour; that's my whole point. I'm saying a lot of people disguise their racism (whether they know it or not) with humour. Maybe you aren't racist, but making jokes like that only legitimizes them, when they can be truly offensive.

As for outsourcing "really screwing up our economy", I'd say this is just further evidence of perceived cultural superiority. Don't you see that opposing outsourcing could really screw up the Indian economy?

But I'd say, beyond this, that outsourcing isn't a zero-sum game. If India can do IT help desks more efficiently than the US can, then doesn't everybody benefit when India specializes in this area? Those who lose their jobs in the US due to outsourcing can always find new ones, that will be even bigger contributions to the US economy. Free trade (and that includes movement of labour) is mutually beneficial.

Re:Hidden racism

[Cerdic]

Tell me - would any other country, rich or poor, welcome foreign citizens to take over a large portion of its jobs? I think there's a common attitude across the planet to secure jobs for the "tribe."

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sur that comment was made precisely because he hates Indians

Ever think you're taking things a little too deep? I'm sure you made that comment prcisely because you hate people who are concerned about the negative effects of outsourcing on our economy...

Re:Hidden racism

[teknomage1]

Nice one AC, did you even read the rest of my post?

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true, If you look at the concept of comparative advantage, If it is cheaper for them to have doctors and it is cheaper for us to produce another good or service Y, through comparative advantage, wboth countries gain. So, just b/c the short term effect of not having a job upsets you and takes away from your job, doesn't mean that the economy is suffering.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact is, Indian doctors can be just as capable as doctors from the US, or other Western nations. The same goes for the IT industry.

OK, I can't speak to medical practitioners from India, but I can talk about their IT workers. On two seperate occasions I've worked for companies with significant offshoring in Bombay and Hyderabad. I know that my sample size is far too small for me to make any sweeping judgements about all Indian computer workers but from what I've seen -- they suck.

At my current position it shows up in our project management tool quite consistently. Yellow is the color for a deliverable which is late but not yet blocking another portion of the project. All of the Indian developers have significant amount of yellow next to their names.

What ends up happening is that each person in the stateside operations ends up needing to spend half their day doing babysitting and cleanup on their group of Indian developers. One of my favorite examples is when one of my cow-workers was tasked with writing a simple script. He handed it in two months late and it was a monstrosity -- More than 200 lines of spaghetti code. 22 if() clauses, 11 with else clauses, 17 exit points to the same function, 20 places which attempted to close the same filehandle -- and best of all it didn't work.

And this shit happens all the time. EVERY developer in my office is spending huge amounts of time fixing loads of late garbage delivered from India. Interns in our offices are doing much better work than experienced graduates in India.

Cultural superiority? Dunno. But the cultural differences are huge. One of the biggest ones is that it's impossible to fire someone in India. Seriously, because of their unemployment rate they'd rather keep a freeloader on the payroll than give him an invitation to the world. No matter what he's done. In the states we tend to have a "we can tackle that problem" attitude. In India they have an attitude they call "chalta hai" which is the opposite.

Re:Hidden racism

[NDPTAL85]

The US invented the internet and promotes free trade/globalization. What do you expect to happen?

Re:Hidden racism

[uncqual]

I'd rather compete with an Indian making $150K in the U.S. than with the same engineer making $50K in India. In a shortsighted attempt to "reduce unemployment" the U.S. Congress limits the number of work visas available each year and requires the "we can't find a resident to do this job" dance. This is just stupid - kinda like a airline mechanic's union going on strike against a company teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. This helps save jobs in the short term (1-2 years), but it reduces the chances in the long term of the U.S. continuing to be a (perhaps "the") major player in the world.

I'd let anyone into the U.S. on two conditions. First, they are not an evil person (criminal, terrorist etc). Second, they have no rights to any free societal financial assistance (i.e. welfare, free treatment in the E.R., medicare, education etc.) for a substantial period of time (perhaps 10-15 years).

Sure, this would result in lower salaries in the U.S., but at least the U.S. would remain relevant by having a base of intellectual capital on a par with the "best of the best" among other countries. It also may wake up our public education system in this country before it's too late (although, I fear, it's already too late because by the time it is repaired, the game will be over).

Re:Hidden racism

[frp001]

One of my favorite examples is when one of my cow-workers was tasked with writing a simple script.
Do you hire cow workers especially for the indian market?

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember the story of the computer programmer who's job was outsourced and now he picks up dog shit for a living? Quite a career change, don'tcha think? Really puts that computer science degree to good use too.

Re:Hidden racism

[dbIII]

Firstly, I think it's just a fact of the world that the doctors in India may not actually be as qualified as those in the US

In my country legal proceedings are being taken against an Indian doctor who has done a lot of damage to a lot of people. Very early in the piece it was pointed out by Indian authorities that the person in question studied and practiced in the USA and has US qualifications.

It is not necessarily a "fact of the world" that other countries have inferior qualifications, especially since in many countries doctors take UK and USA exams so that they can practice in a lot of places.

India is still a developing nation. It has had massive improvements in infrastructure and education over the past 10 years ... laser eye surgery online

Have you seen the number and quality of research papers coming out of India over the last 30 years? Hunter gatherers do not have large particle physics labs - and remember that the first heart transplants occured in the far less developed nation of South Africa.

On a more practical note - ping times halfway around the world would mean that laser eye surgery from a different hemisphere is unlikely to be a good idea if you can find someone closer - but if the expert in a paticular procedure is in India or wherever they could give almost realtime advice to the person driving the instrument from a spot where they wouldn't have to worry about latency. Either that or move everything very slowly.

Re:Hidden racism

[roadrunnerro]

Actually the word you're looking for is "xenophobic", but it still doesn't apply completely.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Well you won't mind that this one has gone back to your country, dubbed Dr Death here in Australia,

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16120939-1248 ,00.html

This week, hearings began into the deaths of 87 of Dr Patel's patients, 20 more than previously known. But the investigation, which has the sweeping powers of a royal commission, is not only concerned with fatalities. It is also looking at claims of needless suffering under Dr Patel's scalpel.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you see that opposing outsourcing could really screw up the Indian economy?

So if you believe that people should sacrifice their own welfare to benefit other's economies then you should be donating your income to someone in the Congo, New Guinea, or Iceland.

Those who lose their jobs in the US due to outsourcing can always find new ones, that will be even bigger contributions to the US economy. Free trade (and that includes movement of labour) is mutually beneficial.

None of that is true. You only want to believe that because it benefits you. You obviously have not lived here and seen the steady decline in real wages over the last thirty years and the difficulty of finding a good job.

Re:Hidden racism

[Profane MuthaFucka]

I have figured out an interesting and efficient way to compute a minimum-distance path between all the dog-poops in the park. Using this, I can pick everything up in a minimum of time and effort. See? I can use my computer-science degree to pick up dog poop.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Bzzt!

Outsourcing affects plenty of people, but there is a total myth that our economy has been badly damaged by outsourcing jobs - tech or not - to India, China, and other countries.

Have some companies been hurt by their own poor decision to outsource too much? Yes. GM outsources factory work to Mexico and Jamaica.

* It's more expensive and less productive to outsource certain kinds of jobs. *

So the jobs that really get outsourced are help desk jobs, entry-level and middle-level programmer jobs, tech writers, etc.

There is no shortage of jobs that I can see. In fact, I hear complaints from companies all the time that they can't seem to find qualified tech people. Look on any job website and you'll see a plethora of IT jobs out there.

* If you can't find a job, it's because you're not looking or because you're un-hireable. *

Are you asking for too much money? Do you have the qualifications for the job? Are you just another entry-level programmer that thought he'd make a fortune because of the late-90s economy but is discovering that he has no place in today's IT workplace?

Re:Hidden racism

[Willis Wasabi]

There's a pretty easy test for that. Would most slashdotters complain if instead of India all these jobs were going to England, Ireland, or .

I believe the answer is yes, we would. There's enough racism in the world, don't make it up where it doesn't exist.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa,
Nobody in America wants this but the corporations, and they are the ones that run the country. They are not elected and cannot be voted out of office.

All this globalization stuff is the result of the corporate lobby buying the souls of our elected officials. Vote them out, and new gov officials are quickly turned into lapdogs by the bribes.

Lets get one thing straight... globalization is good for everyone but the US common worker. Do you honestly think the people here want to lose their jobs to cheap labor overseas?

Get real LOL.

I don't hold India or any other country's people responsible for this. Were I an Indian programmer, I'd probably do the same thing. A job is a job. Eventually we will be brought down to the level of the rest of the world in terms of GDP etc. and we'll have the same poverty rate as everyone else.

It's up to the reader to decide if this is good or bad. It depends on where you live.

If I were running the country, I certainly wouldn't just give all of our wealth and spending power to other countries. I'd do everything I could to pass laws against draining our economy.

Corporations would leave, but the ones that would, we really don't need, and new ones would quickly spring up to take their place.

We didn't become the greatest country on earth by giving everything away. It's a fools move with only shortsighted gains to be had. It will kill us long term.

l8,
AC

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

and remember that the first heart transplants occured in the far less developed nation of South Africa.

By a white doctor, when the country was under white rule.

Sorry, not trying to be racist, just pointing out facts.

And by the way, in the 1960s - 1980s, South Africa was indeed more developed than India, had a much stronger currency and economy, and to this day has a more internationally recognized education system. (Hint: Indians with PhDs in Visual Basic are not internationally recognized for quality, only for price).

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

The US has idealized corporate freedom for a long time, this is what corporations do with it.

The jobs aren't `yours'. The jobs aren't `american'. The jobs belong to the corporation that is hiring, and the corporation will go with what it feels the best course for bottom line is.

This is an unavoidable side-effect of any sort of approximately laissez-faire economic approach, and you just can't have that cake and eat it too.

Time to grow up.

Re:Hidden racism

[Anonymous Coward]

You hit the nail on the head. Exactly my experience.
It seems like it's a secret that everyone knows but no one wants to talk about out of fear of being labeled a racist.

The reason why it's done ? Hype and to a certain degree "development aid" provided by decision makers from indian ancestry here in the states.

Re:Hidden racism

[heatdeath]

Maybe jobs are being outsourced because americans have gotten selfish, and don't realize how lucky they are to have the jobs they do, simply by virtue of being born in a certain country. If someone else is willing to work harder than me, and for less, I think that's perfectly legitimate for the job to go to them. They deserve it more.

The problem is that americans think we deserve the quality of life we have, and we really don't. That's going to come and bite us in the butt when India and China come of age technologically and educationally.

Re:Hidden racism

[teknomage1]

Christ you reply sarcastically to one post that's crazy, that post gets modded into oblivion and suddenly everbody thinks you're accusing someone of racism. Damn.

laser surgery via internet and the Snow Crash...

[wherrera]

Yeah, this means it won't be long before a computer worm can really, directly kill someone ;-/

Stupid Receptionist!

[GuitarNeophyte]

I'm sorry, Mr Smith. The receptionist clogged up our bandwidth with illegal P2P downloading while we were making the incision. So, uh, it's just a tad off. Sorry.

Luke
----
Have friends and family that don't understand computers? Don't want to explain them? Send them to ChristianNerds.com, the Easy-to-Understand Computer Encyclopedia.

Re:Stupid Receptionist!

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm sorry, Mr Smith. The receptionist clogged up our bandwidth with illegal P2P downloading while we were making the incision. So, uh, it's just a tad off. Sorry."

But to make it up to you, we can extend it just a bit and give you a great discount on becoming *Mrs* Smith.

LAG that really kills

[Splezunk]

After been killed multiple times on WOW, this lag could really kill you.... mmh... better not get Blizzard to do the Server.

OK...

[BJH]

...who's first up with the bad pingtime jokes?

Re:OK...

[kfg]

...who's first up with the bad pingtime jokes?

Not you.

KFG

Re:OK...

[LordHatrus]

Not you... you must have had bad lag to the server! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

RIAA.....er....AMA

[Anonymous Coward]

What happens if hackers sniff the packets, save the procedure to a file, create a torrent, and distribute the surgery all over the internet?

The artist...er..doctors won't get paid for their work.

Dropped Packets?

[alfrin]

I would imagine if some packets were lost, or lag? It is inevitable, would you really want to risk it with that?

Doctors from overseas

[Anonymous Coward]

"Doctor, my arm, it hurts"

Incoherent mumble, laser keeps moving. BAM you're armless.

I think we can do better than outsource doctors to other countries, the lag time would be deadly in the surgery room.

I can see it now

[Dhalphir]

The headlines:

"Angry patient sues Microsoft for Windows crashing while having laser surgery!"

Re:I can see it now

[mark_hill97]

I realize that was supposed to be a joke but that's why they have that EULA. Read through it, they arent liable for anything you do and it says windows was not intended for critical aapplications.

India

[GuitarNeophyte]

Hrm... for the equipment to make this possible, they would have to put in quite a bit of cash to make that possible, so if the doctors over there are so good that it would make it worth outsourcing to them, I'd say go for it!

Luke
----
ChristianNerds.com, the Easy-to-Understand Computer Encyclopedia

Lag

[unixbum]

Doctor Performing minor incision on a patients arm (Ping: 60ms)
...
Patient: MY ARM, YOU CUT OFF MY ARM!!! (Ping 800Ms)
Doctor: Damn Lag!!!!!!!!

Blame it on the lag, punk

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think I'll be able to trust doctors anymore when they blame making me blind on lag.

"Alright, now just lie down... omg lag"
"lol n00-- OW MY EYE I'M FUCKING BLIND OWWWWW"
"pwned gg"
"gg"

Uh, no thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, yeah I really want to risk getting hacked and have my eyeballs permanently read "pwned".

Is there any redundancy?

[bogaboga]

How has redundancy been implemented? Have these bright people considered a fact that a Distributed Denial of Service or DDoS attack could potentially be fatal to a soul on the surgery table?

Re:Is there any redundancy?

[TeraCo]

Holy shit, you're right. They did this internet laser thing and COMPLETELY FORGOT about that. You win a gold star.

Re:Is there any redundancy?

[Anonymous Coward]

"How has redundancy been implemented?"

They probably don't care that much. This is more PR spin, an attempt at being newsworthy, a logistical accomplishment, or a proof of concept than a breakthrough. Not to diminish what they did, small steps frequently lead to the next step, but this isn't laproscopic surgery performed on a hexapod table or similar.

"Have these bright people considered a fact that a Distributed Denial of Service or DDoS attack could potentially be fatal to a soul on the surgery table?"

Oh my god, think of the cells!

These bright people at least know the difference between performing surgery on a person on a table and the CELL or two or three the surgery was performed on.

This wasn't macroscopic medical surgery folks. This was microscopic. 1 micron holes. A small human cell is usually at least 5 microns. A bacterium is rougly 200 nanometers or .2 microns.

That action of you taking your palm to your forehead likely killed more cells than all their failed attempts to date ever did.

Re:Is there any redundancy?

[Bobzibub]

Yes. Two eyes.

Future post at bash.org

[grolschie]

And now I make my first incision
<nurse> Nice work there Doctor.
<doctor>.
<doctor>.
<doctor> DIE DIE DIE!!!!
* stab stab stab *
<nurse> What the hell are you doing!!!!???!!
<nurse> You've made a freakin' mess. There's bloody all over the theatre!
<nurse> Somebody help!!!!!!!!
<doctor> .
<doctor> Sorry was AFK and my little brother was messing with my pc

Re:Future post at bash.org

[jcenters]

[doctor] And now I will make my first incisision.
[Leroy AFK] ...
[doctor] I'm going to try to go in through the left ventricle and remove the blockage. Nurse, can you run some numbers for us?
[Leroy AFK] ...
[nurse] Well, I say you have a 32.33% chance of success this time, repeating of course.
[doctor] Well, that's better than usual. We should...
[Leroy] Okay, let's do this! LEROOOOOOOOOOOOY JAHNKAIANSSS!!!!!!
[doctor] Did...did he just go in?
[nurse] Not again...
[doctor] Leroy, you dumbass!
[Leroy] At least I have chicken.

Re:Future post at bash.org

[Haydn Fenton]

Hahaha!

Medical Insurance

[GuitarNeophyte]

Most-likely, the real reason it won't get outsourced will be medical insurance. Doctors over here have to have so much malpractice insurance that it's uber expensive, but most of our health insurance companies wouldn't allow for remote surgeries from areas where they wouldn't be able to check up on/sue the person on the other end.

However, if you're rich enough, I guess it'd be possible, but then again, if you're rich, you wouldn't need it outsourced to lower costs.

Luke
----
ChristianNerds.com, the Free, Easy-to-Understand Computer Encyclopedia

Holey amoeba. . .

[kfg]

Batman!

KFG

Makes sense to me

[Anonymous Coward]

They're putting the "eye" back into "I.T."

contain your astonishment...

[moviepig.com]

"...our colleagues in Australia ... have been able to identify and trap a targeted sperm under the laser microscope in the California laboratory."

Though this achievement doubtless strikes fear into the hearts of fugitive sperm everywhere... it's hard to see it as a breakthrough. In other words... it's unlikely that there was ever much doubt about the success of this "demonstration", since any glitch would likely have been met by a mere retry. And, in still other words... do you feel even microscopically better about the prospect of, say, your next airline flight's pilot relaxing at a cable-modem in his condo?

Re:contain your astonishment...

[Idarubicin]

And, in still other words... do you feel even microscopically better about the prospect of, say, your next airline flight's pilot relaxing at a cable-modem in his condo?

To play devil's advocate for a bit....

Say there's a loss of cabin pressure. (This may have been the cause of the recent air crash in Greece.) The pilot will still have lots of oxygen, full consciousness, and full control of the aircraft.

Suppose there's a hijacking attempt. You can't put a knife to the throat of a pilot who isn't there.

Suppose the pilot has a heart attack. The aircraft is seamlessly handed off to the next pilot. The passengers never know anything even happened. In a less-dramatic scenario, you can change crews easily during long flights--at the end of a twelve-hour transcontinental flight, you can bring in a new pilot (who got a good night's sleep in his own bed) to manage the landing. Cabin crew often nod off at their posts; there are anecdotes of flight attendants entering the cockpit to find pilot, copilot, and navigator all soundly asleep while the aircraft is on autopilot.

Maybe you could feel better about having a pilot far away and on the ground....

Re:contain your astonishment...

[juan2074]

Why not just completely automate flying? It is possible with existing technology (which was developed many years ago).

Latency problems?

[nacs]

Now the words "OMFG LAG!" really is a matter of life and death...

obligatory...

[voixderaison]

Do not look directly into laser with remaining eye.

Re:obligatory...

[Alsee]

To remote doctor:
Do not look directly into remaining eye with laser.

-

404

[torrents]

error 404 the surgeon who was messing with your insides can no longer be found try pressing the refresh button, if the problem persists contact your network administrator...

High ping times, cont.

[dlvu5]

Lag frag!

Me, myself and I

[Widowwolf]

I for one welcome our new lasik overlords!

Great keywords anyone?

[shirai]

Lasers. Sperm. the Internet?

This thing is a marketers dream.

Now, if you caught the sperm immediately post coitus, you've got a movie of the week.

A Good Reason

[Doc Squidly]

I'd avoid this simply because of the fact that no U.S. Agency has juristiction over Indian doctors.

If you think getting your own government to do something when the doctor screws up was hard, wait until the doctor is in another country and you need a another country's government to help you.

Simple fact: Governments care more about their own citizens. This goes for any country in the world. (U.S., India, *Insert Country Here*)

If you believe otherwise, and that the U.S. is the only country that is like this, then, well...There isn't much of a point in talking to you because you're living your own little world. Enjoy!

Re:laser surgery via internet and the Snow Crash..

[Alex P Keaton in da]

Eye see what you mean... Will the medical students learning this have a good teacher pupil relationship?
Truth is, my understanding is that a lot of these surgeries are done with computers anyhow, just in thisb case the computer/doc-operator are far away. I am sure there will be nurses etc w/ the patient. I don't think that there will be a feature in Vista that allows us to get surgery at home.
It would be convenient however, to get a vasectomy online.
It seems like the doctors and IT pros are suffering from blind ambition.
Hopefully no one will lash out at them, and a lid will be kept on this. It will require a lot of focus to carry this out properly....

Laser circumcision.

[CyricZ]

I've been meaning to get circumcised lately, but I think I'll wait until this procedure is a bit more mature before I subject my manhood to it.

Re:Laser circumcision.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the fuck do you want to get circumcised? Unless you've got huge problems, cutting your dick off is the most stupid thing to do. And don't give me this shit that it's cleaner because it's not.

Re:Laser circumcision.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I plan on having my eyelids removed next week. It's more hygienic that way, yah know?

Seriously, keep Mr Happy's Fun Flap where it belongs.

Re:Laser circumcision.

[$RANDOMLUSER]

You could use your foreskin for eyelids - but then you'd always be cockeyed.
BA DUM CHING! Try the veal!

Re:Laser circumcision.

[drsquare]

Seriously reconsider that. It cuts off a whole load of nerves so you can't feel stimulation the same, tightens the skin along the shaft so you can't wank it properly, it means that skin around the base of the penis is pulled up along the shaft so the bottom end of your cock is hairy. And the exposed head rubs on your underpants, giving it a rougher surface, making sex less enjoyable for women.

In fact, unless you have a serious medical problem, circumcision has nothing but negative consequences.

DoS taken into consideration?????

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder what would happen .... "Dr. You have just been DoSed" ... ... "IIMM BLIIIIIIND"

Updates

[phorm]

Well, for the visual updates a dropped packet might not be as critical as in the transfer of data that moves the equipment. For that, I'd assume that they've got some decent error-checking or CRC going on.

No thanks...

[Cerdic]

I'll stick with the old fashioned "eye surgery in the bathroom mirror" routine. Come on, would rather be at the mercy of a reversed image and your own hand or the neighborhood P2P bandwidth hogs?

Gives a whole new meaning to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Blue Screen of Death!

Re:Gives a whole new meaning to...

[DJStealth]

Mod this up! I was going to post the same thing :)

Living or Dying?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Doing it remotely is not something I would volunteer for and I suppose that is exactly where this technology is heading."

Those who don't have an alternative would most likely "volunteer". Surgery on a sub? Testing while in the Congo? How about when a community can't afford, or need a full time specialist? Economics comes to medicine. Just look at all the people going to thailand for their medical care.

Is it running Windows?

[alexandreracine]

How about this question? Would you do it now? :)

Surgeons, prepare to be offshored

[Travoltus]

Medical students should be learning Chinese and at least one East Indian dialect as part of their major. And prepare to emigrate overseas!

Gives a whole new meaning to...

[dedazo]

~ NO CARRIER

Just don't mention Sanctuary

[BikeRacer]

or that remote-controlled laser will fry your ass... and they won't use the cooling spray.

i cant wait-The WalMarting of medicine.

[Anonymous Coward]

"But when I asked him about outsourcing, he gave me two good reasons why it'd never happen. THe first is many people prefer to see and know their doctor."

The front-man for all the specialists is the patients GP.

"Secondly, is the fact that if hospitals tried this, the doctors would go on strike in an instant. Generally, doctor's don't work "for" a hospital, they are given permission to set up shop inside the hopital in the space provided. What this means, is a group of radiologists do work out of a hospital (in this case, Elyria Hospital near Cleveland) in exchange for the hospital providing them patients. In return, they provide excellent an radiology department :)"

Labour Unions go on strike. How well is it working out for them? If you're replacing one radiology department with another, then it doesn't really matter if the local one goes on strike.

I'd rather have it done the old fashioned way

[craXORjack]

...over the phone.

NOOOooooo dont click the link

[bxbaser]

slashdotting will blind some poor bastard

Mandatory Dr. Evil quote

[$RANDOMLUSER]

All I want is a frickin' router with a laser microscope on its head. Is that too much to ask?

UCSD

[mentatchris]

for teh win!!!!1!

Doctor Host

[blueadept1]

Now not only will your web host be offering guarantees, your doctor will be too! 99.9% uptime guarantee, 2 GBIT connections across the Atlantic... All I have to say is, they better have diesel generators.

Re:Doctor Host

[nsasch]

99.9% uptime guarantee....
not good enough...that's 1 in 1,000 chance that you'll experience downtime. That's 3.6 seconds of downtime every hour.

Nice in principle, lousy in practice

[davidwr]

I see "remote surgery" and even AI-assisted remote surgery as the future for battlefields, outer space, and other conditions where surgery must be done quickly but the doctor cannot get to the operating room.

However, latency and quality-of-service issues will need to be addressed before this is anything more than experimental.

That explains the recent SPAM...

[MrPoopyPants]

I keep getting email saying "Me get cash money, I laser you eyeball!"

(Stolen from Conan O'Brien's "actual items".)

Huh?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

So this FUNNY post is INSIGHTFUL exactly how? It's a joke. Or is the joke the current state of Slashdot moderation?

Kind of gives a new and macabre meaning...

[bombadier_beetle]

... to the word "hacker."

Strong Emotions article

[graveyardduckx]

A couple of articles before this told of how strong emotion could cause temporary blindness. I guess if the surgeon experienced strong emotion, the patient could experience permanent blindness?


On a serious note, if the Indian doctor made someone go blind in USA... who is accountable? I can see all kinds of legal problems stemming from this already.

Haha

[cybermint]

Haha I hacked your eye, BLIND MAN!

OMGHAX!!!!1111

Courtesy of bash.org

[Swifti]

"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

..... buffering .....

[OneArmedMan]

uh oh ....

hahaha, slashdot you card

[k512-arch]

great replies, /.

I see that every day

[Neuticle]

I work in a multi-specialist doctors office and one of the internists is from India, with a very "foreign" name. Inevitably, new patients would ask how well she speaks English (excellently), but because she takes the time to carefully explain things, reply to questions and assure her patients (good communication skills like you said) she is one of the most well liked doctors in the area. I would say she has even opened the eyes of a few borderline-racist patients.

Back on topic: you will never have me convinced that fully robotic- or tele- surgery will EVER replace a live, in the room doctor except in limited cases. Placing tubes in eardrums, colonoscopies and tonsillectomies are possibilities, but there are too many problems that can go wrong with most procedures. Plus, if you ask any surgeon they will tell you that surgery is a VERY tactile thing, and until we can reach a holodeck-level of sensory feedback, the doctor will still need to be physically in the room.

Just too old school

[BCW2]

I'm sorry but I think a Doctor carving on someone should at least be on the same continent. If he's carving on me he WILL be in the same room.

After two cervical spine and four knee surgeries I know way more about doctors and medicine than I ever wanted to. Thats why I now have time to program and work on computers, this beat up old body won't do much else anymore. The scars on my knees are older than most reading /. (26 - 33 years).

Can I get this at home?

[ShimmyShimmy]

Can I get this from my desktop? This might give new meaning to the Apple iSight.

So if this doesn't work out

[springbox]

I guess it would give the phrase "do not look into laser with remaining eye" a whole new meaning

it's not "surgery"

[cahiha]

They poked tiny holes into cells with a laser. Calling that "cell surgery" doesn't make it surgery; it's just operating a scientific instrument remotely over the Internet. People have been doing that for years.

outsourcing?

[krunk4ever]

does this mean doctors and surgeons can be outsourced now?

QOS

[Phoenixhunter]

While isolated tests like these are all well and good, can the internet that we know and love (or hate) today, really accomodate and maintain the level of QOS to do this across the board?

Newer, seperate internets, like Internet 2 I could see having long term functionality, but I really don't think it's sustainable on the existing networks.

Watch out for the Slashdot effect!

[Bifurcati]

Unfortunately, the rush of /.'ers surging to watch the surgery online /.'ed their servers, and patients dialing in for surgery have receieved 405 errors (Doctor not found).

In other news, one town has offered $50 surgerical procedures from 4 year old doctors, and the resulting stampede has created an infinite loop of supply and demand.

bash.org

[zlyoga]

Wow, now there really is a device that can stab someone in the face over the internet

Obligatory Obscure Futurama Reference

[ari_j]

Touch eyeballs to screen for cheap laser surgery.

I've had vision surgery online for ages!

[oh_bugger]

My VDU has been burning my eyes for years now

HPB ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Beeing a High Ping Bastard gives you a new way of seeing things...

If Real Made It

[MrNonchalant]

And now I'll make a careful incision into the hea[BUFFERING 67%]

Great

[ZorbaTHut]

Here come the patent lawyers!

Doing laser surgery . . .

. . . OVER THE INTERNET

I wanted to make a pun here, but I suck.

[Wilson_6500]

Doctors get paid the big bucks because they know the secret of leading the cells before they shoot rockets--I mean, laser spots.

The real question is this: will researchers soon be able to join a different research group if they can't get a good ping to the one they're working with at the moment? It's an important issue for many reasons. Nothing's worse than some 14 year old scientist getting into your research group and spamming crap like "LOL Nd:YAG? more liek Nd:FAG!!!"

Oh please god...

[edunbar93]

Please let there not be a packet dropped during my laser eye surgery!

Price

[Anonymous Coward]

And to think, the bandwidth for this to be performed only has a retail cost of $240,000 per month!

($30,000 for a gigabit colo times 8 times 2)

I don't think so....

[unlabeledchick]

As many people have said, they prefer a doctor to be in the room with them. I ABSOLUTLEY agree. The internet can be used for many things, but surgery is not one of them.

I can hear it now.

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwww!!! Fucking LAG!!!

We assume one thing...

[Mechcozmo]

...you can't be using dial-up.

Love the internet for laser eye surgery...

[Mr. Flibble]

So the doctor begins adjusting the power of the beam and turns on the laser just as a lag spike hits. The computer continually increaes the laser power... then the delayed UDP message to "fire" the laser arrives...

The doctor stares bewildered at his monitor as the word HEADSHOT! is returned...

(Then a remote nurse claims he has an aimbot...)

Re:Love the internet for laser eye surgery...

[speculatrix]

lasers are wonderful... they can vaporize a bulldozer at 10 miles, or perform the most delicate eye surgery.

I just hope when I go in for my eye operation, the surgeon remembers to switch it over first!

Past post at bash.org

[TheBurningDog]

i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet

http://bash.org/?4281

Futurama!

[Smork]

"Touch eyes to screen for cheap laser surgery" :)

I hope

[zlogic]

I hope he didn't get a ...BUFFERING... screen during the operation.
And that nobody cracked/DoSed the system.
I wouldn't want to be operated in this way, especially if it's Windows-powered.

oh em gee

[ElectusUnum]

Doctor 1: I'd make the incision there
Doctor 2: Right, I concur *click click*
Doctor 1: wtf, ping is like 1000
Doctor 2: omg lag.
Doctor 1: You cut his heart in half
Doctor 2: :(
Doctor 1: fucking tk'er

1337 d0ct0rz

[Anonymous Coward]

doctor - Bring the patient in ...

doctor - Ahhh i see... This man accute bloated internal spleen rupture, we're gonna need suction.

nurse - but doc, how the hell can you tell that you've not even opened him up?

doctor - its ok, i got OGC wallhack enabled ...

doctor - *sloshy splatty splish* right all done
nurse - CHRIST that was quick
doctor - speeed hack enabled

doctor - counter patients win

Next step: Laser eye surgery by lightsaber

[Anonymous Coward]

Courtesy of Family Guy and IMDB quotes...

[Luke is performing an operation on a ladies eye]
Luke Skywalker: Okay I'll just make a quick incision here and we'll be all done, Mrs. Wilson.
Ben Kenobi: Luke, use the Force.
Luke Skywalker: Really? Because I was just gonna...
Ben Kenobi: Just use the Force.
Luke Skywalker: Okay!
[Luke's lightsaber floats above Mrs. Wilson and stabs her right through the eye. She starts screaming]
Luke Skywalker: Are you happy?
Ben Kenobi: I've never been happy.

Computer Virus Kills a Man

[hritcu]

IT Marketing News - December 2000

It happens everywhere

[dbIII]

I changed careers to work with computers because of the number of computer workers who suck - it's not just limited to India. As most people on this forum would know, you just need to be competant to look good, and look brilliant if you do a halfway decent job in a lot of computer related jobs.

An engineer or scientist that has used a variety of different systems and programmed in a few languages doesn't have to do much to get better results than a base level MSCE or a recent one year tech college graduate - which appears to be the skill level in a disturbing number of cases.

Why is that modded "flamebait"?

[Moraelin]

Seems to me like a legitimate concern. The fact is, computers aren't perfect, and the Internet is anything _but_ the perfect real time medium for something like this.

If I'm to look at just my experience with WoW, I got disconnected three times in half an hour at one point yesterday. All of a sudden there'd be no more packets coming, and about half a minute later the game would finally get the clue and disconnect me. Was someone playing with a router along the way? I wouldn't know.

Stuff like that happens on the Internet every single day. A router crashes. A cable breaks. A connection is DDOSed. Or it gets Slashdotted: what happens if on the same day the hospital's web page gets linked to by Slashdot or whatever? I'm going to guess that's gonna mean a lot less bandwidth and a lot more latency for that operation.

The internet is OK for non-critical stuff and stuff that doesn't need a guaranteed response time. For playing WoW or UT2004, meh, I can reconnect or find another server. For buying stuff online, meh, I can hit refresh. Etc. It's not important stuff.

But the thought that someone's life (or eyesight for an eye operation) would be _gambled_ on an internet connection... now that makes me cringe.

If the operation _has_ to be performed from a remote location, I'd want a direct dedicated connection, and a redundant one at that.

WOOT - OUTSOURCE DOCTORS!

[TheKnave]

To India.

See how they like it!

And for our next trick - LAWYERS!

Link please

[Anonymous Coward]

To where I can control the laser over the Internet?

I had laser eye surgery done

[Mostly Monkey]

One of the critical things that a doctor does is to release a pedal or switch to shut off the laser in case someone's eye drifts or flickers around. Remote operating will always add a small bit of lag to this, possibly leading to minor problems with the overall evenness of the burn.

frickin "laser beams"

[welshie]

I said I wanted remote controlled sharks with frickin' laser beams, not eye surgery robots.

Over the /hostile/ internet ?

[ratatask]

So - what would have happened if either of the ends were ddos'ed in the middle of the procedure here ?

Double bypass headlines

[g0bshiTe]

I can see the first lawsuit.

California Hospitol and Aussie Dr. sued due to lag. The victim was cited as saying, "I shoulda gone with those HPF's".

Strong Emotions May Cause Temporary Blindness

[Adrian.Challlinor]

Is this related to http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/1 7/224231&tid=99&tid=14/? I think we should be told.

ummmm

[CrashRoX]

I hope they arent running windows...

cal lme a skeptic

[argStyopa]

But I'll trust this when one of the researchers claiming success has his/her own (critical, sensitive to failure) surgery using this method.

A painful experience. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Latency and losing route to host are killers!

Please no RealMedia

[GrayCalx]

"Excellent Ms. Jones, I'll make the first inc/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/we are I hope you aren't moving much, you must keep very s/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/you must keep very s/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/eep very sti/BUFFERING/BUFFERING/nd we're done. $2500 please."

I'm sure this is along the lines they're thinking

[Calyth]

"Touch Eyeballs to Screen for Cheap Laser Surgery" while streaming Futurama.

Thanks but no thanks.

[sizzzzlerz]

I like my surgeons in the same operating room as me especially when they are wielding sharp, pointy sticks or laser beams.

You keep thinking, Butch. Thats what you're good for.

The software used...

[MicroBerto]

... is National Instruments' LabVIEW. Amazing stuff.

Outsourcing of Medical Care Exists to Some Degree.

[Chibi]

Just an FYI, but there is some outsourcing of medical care happening. Here's a brief article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6199772/site/newsweek/ .

I also recall reading an article a year or so ago (I believe in Newsweek) of a man who traveled to India to receive some type of heart operation. Rather than go through the expensive US healthcare system, he decided to go to India. He was able to receive what he felt was a comparable level of care, but at a fraction of the cost. He was also able to receive luxury accomodations and was treated like a king.

So, this is purely anecdotal (feel free to look for the article), but it shows anything is possible. Of course, this isn't quite outsourcing as people in IT face. And I don't think you'd ever see the medical profession held in such low regards as IT, but it's still interesting (IMO, at least).

Happy 30th Birthday Logan

[randyflood]

Happy 30th Birthday Logan

It is time to be renewed. Just let me hook up this nifty internet surgery thingy. Don't worry these lasers are fool proof...

There is no reason to run off. This *always* works.

Forget over the Internet!

[csoto]

I want to perform laser surgery out of a shrunken-down micro submersible, injected into someone's bloodstream!

A female assistant with a tight scuba suit would also help...

Scam

[Cervantes]

This is all just a really big scam. The truth is, some researcher got PWN3D a few months ago at Q3, and set about to get the best ping times he possibly could.

This is what you get when you headshot GreyHats, people!!! Do not taunt happy fun ball!!!

Sounds great...

[Bun]

...you first.

great distance = drive thru?

[iamhassi]

"showed that realtime surgeries can be performed from distant locations. "

so when can i get one in drive-thru?

Chinese Whisper

[mnmn]

I've had times when someone asks someone else for a quick n dirty script to do one little thing, or to just produce a quick report to read a number. The request ended up to me as get this report done properly, double check everything, make it look pretty and built a nice and secure interface because the big guys want it. Now the difference may be 30min to 2 days there.

I dont know how much do the dudes in India suck, I just know that the best results are obtained when I'm sitting with the person requesting the project, looking into my eyes and expressing the importance of the various parts of the project in a language that cannot be written. Send the same request to India through 3 people, to a totally different culture, so many time zones away that they cannot ask quick questions while they're working on it. And you'll end up with spaghetti.

The problem with IT is there are way too many ways to do one thing, and a bigger problem is the people who are requesting the results cant define it clearly because theyre not IT people. In meetings I frequently finish the requester's sentences because (s)he cant clearly express what (s)hes looking for.

Now you could say Indian workers suck when they have software companies in India able to compete in International markets on equal terms, and still produce sucky software.

Yet I agree with the 'chalta hai' attitude that stretches from Karachi to Dacca. It means 'it'll work' or more like, the stupid white men will buy it. The recent IT craze in which countless uninterested kids entered the field in a goldrush doesnt help things either.

More to do with culture. Nothing to do with racism.

uh, Doc...?

[llamaxing]

what about vasectomies? Ouch!