Accused Zotob Worm Author Says Money Was Motive

An anonymous reader writes "Washingtonpost.com has an excerpt of an online interview with "Diabl0", the 18-year-old that Moroccan authorities arrested on suspicion of writing the Zotob and Mytob worms, as well as the Rbot trojan. In the back-and-forth, Diabl0 says his worms "spread only for money" and hints that the motive was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers."

Comments

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Anonymous Coward]

Money.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL These people are heroes. Well, at least to me, an old mainframer who is aghast at the low low standards in the Windows world.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[FidelCatsro]

The virus writers are but pawns ,to really curb the problem something would need to be done about organised crime... Execute the writers in your country and you just cause the Mafioso to outsource their virus writers .

What really needs to be done is to cut out there vectors of attack. That or a serious effort to stop organised crime .. and I see very few governments with the bottle to actually do that.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[aeoo]

In other words, greed?

Most life forms are motivated by greed, but not all. You still left the other one percent open (in your view/statement). :)

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[NiceGeek]

"(Note: I am not gay, but come on now, killing someone just because they are gay? How sick of a "society" do you have to be to do something like that?)"

Dunno...why don't you ask Matthew Sheppard?

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Personally, I don't have a problem with this.

Do you know why? Because my morals are not their morals.

Their country is (dare I say radically?) different than mine, and as such, I don't have the right to tell them what to do with their laws/morals/culture.

This is the way of the world.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[karnal]

You seem to forget your history... at least, if you're an American.

Witches used to be put to death here, iirc.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[FireBreathingDog]

I'm sorry, sir, but your statement condemning Iran was incomplete. Here on Slashdot, all condemnations are supposed to point to the U.S.

Instead, try to figure out how it's our fault that the Iranians are killing people for such ludicrous "offenses." I'm sure your Score: 3, Insightful will soon become a Score: 5.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

the sickness of Islam doesn't end there

Its fuckers like you
who say shit like that
that really piss me off.

Those acts are no more about Islam than Pat Robertson calling for the assasination of Hugo Chaves is about Christianity and it doesn't stop there. Any mainstream religion will have plenty of nutz on the fringe who will do whatever evil they fucking want to and then blame it on their god. That doesn't, in any way, invalidate the religion, it just proves that evil will use whatever tool it can.

With over a billion muslims in the world, it is just plain stupid to judge them based on the actions of the most extreme fringes of their society. How would you feel if all white people in the world were treated as if the actions and beliefs of the KKK were their own actions and beliefs?

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[BlackSabbath]

I agree - how insane!

Imagine if people were burnt at the stake for practicing natural remedies (middle-ages) or were hung for the color of their skin (American South), or burnt in ovens because they were racially impure (Nazi Germany), or starved to death in forced labour because they were educated middle-class (Cambodia). Crazy!

Yes - you are a tad "out of touch". Try picking up a history book. Our collective past is jam-packed full of shit like this. Most of it is caused by ignorance. And if you think we have evolved "past" this sort of behaviour in the "civilised" West - think again.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[ScentCone]

Dunno...why don't you ask Matthew Sheppard?

I'd say there's a huge difference between a handful of drunk, ignorant idiots stalking and killing a gay guy and the government doing it.

It actually is interesting to see the same idealogical camp that condemns a killing like Shepard's (as anyone should) preaching non-involvement in "other cultures" and celebrating "diversity." The point, of course, is that there are plenty of "diverse" other cultures that, as a matter of course, would have killed Sheppard and anyone he ever interacted with. There actually are some objectively wrong ways for a culture to carry on. It's that simple. So... why the constant drumbeat for "tolerance" for everything, but intolerance for certain attitudes domestically? Doesn't make those attitudes right, but it makes similar attitudes elsewhere also wrong.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Jonny_eh]

used to

Is it too much to ask that the Muslim world join the civilized world? It's easy now since we did it first.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[nofx_3]

There actually are some objectively wrong ways for a culture to carry on. It's that simple.
 
No, clearly its not that simple and clearly you are still looking at the situation subjectively. While I think the acts the carry out are disgusting and wrong, I do realize that to them this is a correct way to behave. Sometimes the only way to deal with people like this is to give them a taste of their own medicine, after all even the Bible says "Do unto others"...

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[karnal]

....

Just because we're at a certain point in civilization, we expect others to be right here with us?

Granted, I don't like the fact that the 16 year old died - I don't feel it's right. However, it's not up to me to determine their progress through history, is it?

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[alienfluid]

well said. it makes me sick too. friggin' morons.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[stonecypher]

Society didn't do that. A small group of sociopaths did. Sociopathy is a mental disease. Society is not the cause of sociopathic behavir.

To pretend that having murderers in our midst is equivalent to a broad and accepted policy of execution of people due to their sexual orientation is simply disgusting. It is important to face the human rights crimes of a government; they execute people for simple speech on a regular basis.

Yes, we have murderers; all societies do. We have not condoned the killing of people for any but the most serious of crimes, and even for that we are lambasted.

There is absolutely no comparison between a government willfully executing people over preferences, and a few bigots killing a man because they're too stupid to seperate bias from morals.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[stonecypher]

Oh, and the sickness of Islam doesn't end there.

Please stop confusing the sickness of Iran with the sickness of Islam. As a religion, Islam is extremely peacefully oriented. These leaders are no more Islamic than David Korresh was Christian.

This, my dear boy, is called predjudice.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Anonymous Coward]

Addendum for AstroDrabb:

Jesusland's Crusade against the Middle East has resulted in heightened tensions in the region. This in turn has led to increased power for the State in afflicted nations (in the same way that 9/11 transformed the U.S. into the JL Dictatorship; people voluntarily giving up their freedoms in exchange for 'security').

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[gnuorder]

" Society didn't do that. A small group of sociopaths did. Sociopathy is a mental disease. Society is not the cause of sociopathic behavir."

Bringing up Mathew Sheppard or some other case in the US is not an endorsment of what goes on in Iran. I think the person who brought up Sheppard wanted to point out that a whole society is being condemed because of a few choice stories. The US has it's own choice stories too, as does any nation. Confucius says, he who has mop handle up that Haitian man's ass should pull it out before becoming indignant over what happened in some other country.

The rest of the world thinks our leader is socialpathic for ordering indiscriminant dropping of bombs on countries that have not done anything to us. To them, and me, it is every bit as bad, or worse, than the occational execution of a teenage girl in Iran. A 16 year old girl stoned, hanged or beheaded is every bit as dead as one being blown to bits.

More to the point, if this country were to follow the teachings of some of our very own christian leaders today, we would be doing the same sort of things that are going on in Iran. When religious ideas are challanged, some of the religious followers get more extreme. When the government is using this religion as a method of control, at the very least, it looks the other way or justifies extreme actions. This is what happened with the Taliban and in Iran. It's what our socialpathic leader may have caused in Iraq and is certainly what he wants for us here.

I talked to God too and he says he's sorry he missed with the hand granade, the bicycles and the pretzels.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[gnuorder]

If electricity is made up of electrons then morality is made up of morons.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[LittleBigLui]

Instead, try to figure out how it's our fault that the Iranians are killing people for such ludicrous "offenses."

Easy. From Wikipedia:

The 16th century saw renewed independence with the Safavids and then other lines of kings or shahs. During the 19th century Persia came under pressure from both Russia and the United Kingdom leading to a process of modernisation that continued into the 20th century. By the 20th century Iranians were longing for a change and thus followed the Persian Constitutional Revolution of 1905/1911. In 1953 Iran's prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq, who had been elected to parliament in 1923 and again in 1944 and who had been prime minister since 1951, was removed from power in a complex plot orchestrated by British and US intelligence agencies ("Operation Ajax").

Many scholars suspect that this ouster was motivated by British-US opposition to Mossadeq's attempt to nationalize Iran's oil. Following Mossadeq's fall, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (Iran's monarch) grew increasingly dictatorial. With strong support from the USA and the UK, the Shah further modernised Iranian industry but crushed civil liberties. His autocratic rule, including systematic torture and other human rights violations, led to the Iranian revolution and overthrow of his regime in 1979. After more than a year of political struggle between a variety of different groups, an Islamic republic was established under the Ayatollah Khomeini by popular vote.

So USA and UK tried to protect the Iranian people from a - umm - democratic regime and reinstalled their beloved tyrant. The ungrateful Iranians didn't like that, revolted, and from that mess emerged another group of tyrants, which like to kill people for ludicous "offenses".

While the new tyrans aren't the USA/UKs fault per se, it is obvious that their rise to power was eased by USA/UKs greed for oil and their lack of respect for democracy and autonomy.

q.e.d.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[MysteriousPreacher]

Yes Islam and Christianity get a rap for the actions of a few crazies but people who think that all real Christians/Muslims are happy shiny people are just ignoring the truth.

Ironically, the most extreme Christians are argueably the ones who are being truest to their holy book. If you're a good Chrisitian, you should be following these rules.

Kill witches
"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad (Islam isn't the only religion that executes it's children)
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Again, Islam is the only religion that kills girls who are curious)
"But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst." (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Anyone who claims to be a Christian but does not follow these rules is picking and chosing the rules they want to follow.

Face facts. These religions are barbaric for one good reason - they are relics from the past. If I invented a religion now, in 1000 years time, no doubt some of my rules would appear barbaric. Even simple things like advocating the eating of animals may be seen as being morally repugnant in 1000 years time.

Don't judge these religions on the actions of their adherents. Judge them by reading the holy books that they claim their god provided them.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[cool_number_9]

I know "this is the way of the world" and I value the concept of sovereignty of states. Hell... I don't want anyone attacking our small country just because people here can smoke pot, go to the red light district or get married to the same sex, doctors can perform strictly controlled euthanasia without having to worry about legal repercussions. I know these are things a lot of other countries despise.

However, I think this cultural relativism thing is going to far and personally speaking, I draw the line at killing, torturing or jailing people for their beliefs, sexual preferences or conduct. Of course, provided no one gets hurt, so no rape or child molestation, etc. And I know governments like that of Iran consider this sort of behaviour dangerous, but that is a belief I and a significant part of the free world don't share.

Does this mean I want to go in all those countries guns blazin'? No, but I do think countries like mine should openly criticise these governments as a first step.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[EiZei]

It hasn't been THAT long since we westerners used to put homosexuals in jails, mental hospitals or even kill them outright.

Not that this kind of backwardness is in any way acceptable, just trying to put things in perspective. I am just very very thankful that we got over our fundie phase.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[AstroDrabb]

Uh, idiot, the things I posted were not just a few "nutz on the fringe". It was their freaking government. Their supreme court held up the ruling to hang the 16 year old girl in public!

With over a billion Muslims in the world, it is just plain stupid to judge them based on the actions of the most extreme fringes of their society. How would you feel if all white people in the world were treated as if the actions and beliefs of the KKK were their own actions and beliefs?

My statements were not about all Muslims (if it sounded that way then I apologize). My statements were about the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and especially the governments. I have met plenty of nice Muslims here in the USA (my neighbor, for example). The women and children in those nations have zero rights and are treated like objects. If you want to be PC and side step the issue, then fine. However, I don't believe in being PC. The Islam of the middle east is very different from the Islam you see in the rest of the civilized world. In the middle east, females are denied an education, female children are killed if they don't act a certain way. The Muslims of the middle east hate Christians, Jews, Hindus, basically anyone that is not Muslim. The Muslims of the middle east often kill if you are in their land and try to spread a non-Muslim religion. I am not talking about a few "nutz on the fringe". I am talking about millions and millions of middle eastern Muslims. Islam of the middle east is the form of Islam I want to see go away. I don't want to see it spread its hatred and violence through the world.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[AstroDrabb]

Yes, I didn't convey my point well. I meant to say the Islam of the Middle East, not Islam in general. I do see a _very_ big difference in Islam between say how it is practiced here in the USA and how it is in the Middle East.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[AstroDrabb]

Your wrong. All the scripture that you quoted is in the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures). Those laws were given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. The New Testament is what was given to the Christians. In fact, the New Testament even says that the old laws of the Hebrew Scriptures are not needed:

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 5:14

You would be more accurate if you had said

Anyone who claims to be a Jew but does not follow these rules is picking and choosing the rules they want to follow.

"Real" Christians understand the New Testament and apply it knowing that the Hebrew Scriptures are not needed anymore for laws. The reason that Christianity can get a bad rap is because there are "Christians" who don't even understand their own religion. The whole underlying point of the New Testament is LOVE. No where in the New Testament does it say anything about how you should kill this person or that person because they did XYZ. It is all about love and forgiveness. Jesus forgave Mary for being a hooker and stopped people from stoning her to death. Jesus turned the other cheek, etc, etc.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[FuzzyDaddy]

Romans 1:26-27:"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

Corinthians 6:9: "Corithians 6:9-10: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God"

While your sentiment is commendable, most of the churches officially condemn homosexuality. There are new testament scriptural reasons for this.

I also get annoyed about people citing the first five books of the bible in their comndemnation of homosexuality; eating pork is also an abomination, but I don't see Pat Robertson getting all up in arms about it.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I posted were not just a few "nutz on the fringe". It was their freaking government.

The most regressive islamic regimes staring with the worst are:

0) The Taliban
1) Iran
2) Saudia Arabia

When you are second to the Taliban, rule by force and not by popular vote, you are the few nutz on the fringe.

My statements were not about all Muslims (if it sounded that way then I apologize).

It sure as hell did sound that way, how else would you interpret "the the sickness of Islam doesn't end there." If you really did not mean to talk about all muslims, why didn't you say something like, "the sickness of totalitarian theocracies doesn't end there?"

The Muslims of the middle east hate Christians, Jews, Hindus, basically anyone that is not Muslim.

Right there you are so far off the mark that it is ridiculous. How many middle-eastern muslims do you know? Sounds like the answer is zero. How much tv do you watch? Sounds like the answer is way too much. How much of it is foreign-sourced versus American-sourced? I'd wager close to zero.

You really need to take my comments about the KKK being representative of white Americans to heart, because that is EXACTLY the logical fallacy you are promoting with your ignorant, bombastic claims.

Oh and fuck you with your charges of being PC and "side-stepping" the issues of abuse of women in the middle east. If you knew shit about the topic you would know that these abuses stem as much from tribal beliefs that predate islam as they do from extremists within the religion, its just reactionaries that seek whatever cover they can find in islam to justify their own personal fucked up morality.

There is an arabic saying, much like Shakespeare's- "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose," that "tribalists cover their actions with the cloak of islam." On the other hand, the reactionary response to problems like tribalism has been puritanical sects like salafism which can be just as easily do the same kinds of evil acts with a whole different bizarre intrepretation of islam. However, neither are mainstream islam, in the middle east or anywhere else.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[AstroDrabb]

It sure as hell did sound that way, how else would you interpret "the the sickness of Islam...

That was called a few too many beers, I meant to expand that to the typical radical Islam of the Middle East.

Right there you are so far off the mark that it is ridiculous. How many middle-eastern Muslims do you know? Sounds like the answer is zero.

Sorry, chump, I mean champ but you are wrong. I personally know 15 middle-eastern men and women Muslims that moved to the USA. The ones I know are from Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. The family that lives next door to me are from Saudi Arabia (a very nice family) and a fellow team member on my programming team was born and raised in Saudi Arabia and also lived in Afghanistan before he moved to the states.

How much tv do you watch? Sounds like the answer is way too much.
How much tv do you watch?

Sorry, chump, I mean champ but you are wrong. About 1 hour per week. My wife and I are not into TV and spend our time with our children doing constructive activities. There is not much on TV that I like. I mostly watch Discovery or the Science Channel.

You really need to take my comments about the KKK being representative of white Americans to heart, because that is EXACTLY the logical fallacy you are promoting with your ignorant, bombastic claims.

Get a grip on realty dude. That is not even close. There are not millions of KKK members in the USA. The majority of the USA does not want to kill someone because they practice a different religion or no religion at all.

Oh and fuck you with your charges of being PC and "side-stepping" the issues of abuse of women in the middle east. If you knew shit about the topic you would know that these abuses stem as much from tribal beliefs that predate Islam as they do from extremists within the religion, its just reactionaries that seek whatever cover they can find in Islam to justify their own personal fucked up morality.

Ahh, how mature. Oh, and the old "it is an old tradition" excuse for perpetuating the discrimination of women in Middle Eastern Islam. How quaint.

There is an arabic saying, much like Shakespeare's- "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose," that "tribalists cover their actions with the cloak of islam." On the other hand, the reactionary response to problems like tribalism has been puritanical sects like salafism which can be just as easily do the same kinds of evil acts with a whole different bizarre intrepretation of islam. However, neither are mainstream islam, in the middle east or anywhere else

That has to be one of _the_ dumbest things I have ever heard and it doesn't even come close to the eloquence of Shakespeare.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I personally know 15 middle-eastern men and women Muslims that moved to the USA. The Muslims of the middle east hate Christians, Jews, Hindus, basically anyone that is not Muslim.

So, these 15 men and women that you know, they hate christains, jews, hindus and everyone else that is not a muslim? Because that's exactly what you said, chump. Do you YET see the logical fallacy of your claims?

The majority of the USA does not want to kill someone because they practice a different religion or no religion at all.

Bada-fucking-bing! And just why do you think muslims are any different?

Oh, and the old "it is an old tradition" excuse for perpetuating the discrimination of women in Middle Eastern Islam. How quaint.

What? Had too many beers tonight that you can't even tell the difference between "joe is not an abuser" and "abuse is ok"? Just where the FUCK do you see me EXCUSING those actions? Clearly my FUCK YOU was more than prescient since you are calling me an apologist for the abuse of women.

That has to be one of _the_ dumbest things I have ever heard

Clearly then, you do not read what you write. Maybe I am wrong and your neighbor really does hate your guts, after reading what you keep spewing, I wouldn't blame him.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[Anonymous Coward]

That was called a few too many beers,

En vino veritas, eh?

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[MysteriousPreacher]

A good Christian recognises and follows the rules laid down in the old testament.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Even if you're a bad Christian who believes that the old laws of God can be swept aside, then here is an example from Jesus himself.

"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Real Christians are very confused people because they cannot possibly follow all the rules that the Bible lays down. They would be in utter chaos. The commonly perceived message of Christianity is that of love but this is because too many people have simply not sit down with the Bible, read it from cover to cover and written down all the things their god requires them to do.

As someone else who responded to your comment pointed out, Jesus does not like gays.

Re:What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

[AstroDrabb]

A good Christian recognises and follows the rules laid down in the old testament.

They do? When was the last time you heard of people sacraficing a bird or heifer? Jews don't even follow all the old laws in the Hebrew Scriptures.

I have come not to abolish but to fulfill

And according to the New Testament, that is what Jesus did. He fullfiled the prophecies and gave new laws. When Jesus was asked what are the greatest of the commandments, He didn't say go and read the Torah for the 10 commandments. He said to love God with all your heart, mind and sould and to love one another as he loves us.

Why did you not put the whole verse of Mark 7:10? To understand what it is saying you need to start back around Mark 7:5.

Mark 7:5-25 (New American Standard Bible)
5The Pharisees and the scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?"

6And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'

8"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the (E)tradition of men."

9He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

10"For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';

11but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'

12you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;

13thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

14After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:

15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man.

16["If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."]

17When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable.

18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,

19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

20And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.

21"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

23"All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

So Jesus did remove the old laws (or most of them). The old laws said not to eat pork because it was considered "unclean". Jesus changed that in the words above and decalred all foods clean. "there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man.".

Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[deft]

"Diabl0 says his worms "spread only for money" and hints that the motive was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers."

Because he's stealing THEIR business model! =)

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[ackthpt]

"Diabl0 says his worms "spread only for money" and hints that the motive was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers."

Because he's stealing THEIR business model! =)

Whose business model? Who is actually doing the paying? Some low-life add-popper, or the companies who make so much money on virii/worm erradication that they can buy naming rights to stadia?

I still think the really story is what these guys will say, assuming they talk and don't have some mob death threat hanging overy their heads.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Anonymous Coward]

For someone who knows the alternative plural form of stadium, it's amazing to me you would bust out with a non-alternative version of virus.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mroch]

Actually, "stadia" is plural, but in the wrong context. Stadia were a Roman unit of measurement equivalent to the length of a stadium, but "stadiums" are more than one stadium.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[ronocdh]

Not only that, but "virii" doesn't work, either. I believe the GP meant to say "viri," subscribing to the common misconception that all words ending in -us are pluralized with an "I" (like "octopi" and "cacti"). But the rule is hardly so general; wouldn't "bus" turn to "bi" and not "buses"? The proper plural of "virus" is "viruses," as the method for pluralization is determinded by declension of the Latin root. "Virus" should not be treated as "radius" (from whose pluralization I believe the GP rifled the extraneous "I")--I believe it's the gender of the word (in Latin) that distinguishes them from one another.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mroch]

"viri" is the dative or ablative plural form of "virus" in Latin, but "virus" in its current form is derived through Middle English, which pluralizes with "es" instead of "i."

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mabinogi]

The thing that always bugs me about the virii thing, is that it's completely irrelevant how it's pluralized in Latin.

Regardless of it being a Latin loan word, it's an English word now, and therefore "viruses" is absolutely the correct way to pluralize it, just as cactuses, and octopuses are correct English words.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[zambuka]

Viri in latin has nothing to do with viruses.
http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl? stem=vir&ending=i

Viri is man.
Virus is poison or slimy liquid and is not pluralised in latin as far as I am aware.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mroch]

http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/WORDS.EXE?vir i I guess that says something about mankind, huh?

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[nofx_3]

Yes, but Octopussy is a British word.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Anonymous Coward]

So can I also say that "viri" is absolutely the correct way to pluralize it, just as cacti, and octopi are correct English words?

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Sfing_ter]

McAfee's that's who... would not surprise me to see old John backing this kind of thing...
for more info got to:

http://vmyths.com/rant.cfm?id=160&page=4

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Anonymous Coward]

Incredibly, you make a mistake in correcting another's grammar.

The word "octopus" is derived from ancient Greek, not Latin. Therefore, those wishing to use the original plural form choose "octopodes".

"Octopusses" is also generally considered acceptable, as the standard English pluralization. "Octopie", however, is wrong no matter which way you slice it.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

Stadia were a Roman unit of measurement equivalent to the length of a stadium

So "football fields" is a valid unit of measurement...

What was their measurement equivalent to the width of a human hair?

Information contained in Libraries of Congress?

# of times various things stacked together will encircle the earth?

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mabinogi]

You can say that, but I don't care, because I'll never use them.

BTW, as an exercise, try looking up viri, cacti, octopi, viruses, cactuses and octopuses in a modern spell checker. (Spell checker, because Dictionaries often carry a wider range of words, even those no longer in active use - a spell checker tends to stick to the core language used today)

Of the '-i' words, only cacti is recognised by the ones I tried, all the '-es' words were recognised.
Also, Octopi may be a correct English word, but it's based on an even more fallacious assumption than 'virii', as it really should have been 'Octopodes' if we're going to do things like that.

But it seems to me that people forget that just because a word came from another language, doesn't mean that we can't use English rules on it once it has become part of our language.

People complain that English is complicated, and then do idiotic things like selectively imposing rules from other languages on it.

Words like 'octopi' and 'virii' or 'viri' (and the whole history of importing Latin words in the first place just because it was some how more elite) strike me as nothing more than affectations and bother me almost as much as using accents on English words just because the original word in a language that actually has accents used them (If I'm writing English, I should never have to stray out of ASCII).

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Cyberax]

Oh yes, sometimes it's so funny to see a Russian word in a semi-incorrect form somewhere in an English text.

For example, plural from "skazka" (fairy tale) is "skazki". But a sentence like "he told us five skazki" sounds very strange, because word "skazki" should be in genetive case ("skazok").

The same also applies to Greek and Latin, since these languages also have grammar cases.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[mroch]

I don't think they could measure the length of the path travelled by light in an absolute vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second.

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, it clearly is 8 pies ...

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[orkysoft]

Actually, virus is from the Latin virus, which means poison, and has no plural, and doesn't belong to the same noun group as most -us words (which go -i in plural). So the English plural should be viruses.
Viri and virii are just wrong.

Octopus comes from Greek, and its plural would be octopodes or something like that. So the English plural is just octopuses.

I think cactus is a normal Latin -us word, so if you want to pluralize it as cacti, go ahead, but cactuses should be fine too.
</grammar fascist>

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Seraphim1982]

BTW, as an exercise, try looking up viri, cacti, octopi, viruses, cactuses and octopuses in a modern spell checker. (Spell checker, because Dictionaries often carry a wider range of words, even those no longer in active use - a spell checker tends to stick to the core language used today)

The only one that comes up as an error is "viri", all the others look fine.
I agree "viri" is a poor choice of plural, but you picked bad examples when you tried to show why.

Also, Octopi may be a correct English word, but it's based on an even more fallacious assumption than 'virii', as it really should have been 'Octopodes' if we're going to do things like that.

But it seems to me that people forget that just because a word came from another language, doesn't mean that we can't use English rules on it once it has become part of our language.

Do things like what? I would say that us->i IS an english rule, so how can you complain about using it in one paragraph because it doesn't follow the rules in some other language, and then complain about people who try to do the same thing?

Re:Anti Virus firms will kick his butt

[Anonymous Coward]

But it's not, and you can tell that by seeing how the longer a Latin based -us loan word stays in the language, the more likely it is that it will be pluralized with -es. That indicates that the most natural way to make a word plural to the average English speaker that neither knows nor cares how to do it in Latin or Greek, (or which words originate in those langages) is to add -s or -es.

But aside from that, "do things like that" was referring to using irregular plurals because of a belief that it's the correct way to do it in the language the word originated from - which is the most common defence used by people that defend virii or viri (never mind that they're wrong anyway).
If those people supported viri or virii by saying it was a correct way to do things in English and provided evidence, then it wouldn't be half as bad, but instead they're using a flawed understanding of a language that's been dead or nearly dead for hundreds of years as the basis of their claims. That's my problem.

Youngins....

[RobertKozak]

...the 18-year-old Moroccan authorities...

GAWD! I must be getting old cause I can remember when "authorities" used to be older than 18.

Re:Youngins....

[CatsCradle]

... Moroccan authorities there arrested on suspicion of writing the Zotob and Mytob worms. Damn young-rabble rousing authorities.

Re:Youngins....

[Cerdic]

If we had an infinite number of ScuttleMonkeys typing this story, they would eventually get the grammar correct.

Re:Youngins....

[Alien Being]

You have just solved the mystery of dupes.

ought oh

[Anonymous Coward]

the 18-year-old Moroccan authorities there arrested on suspicion of writing the Zotob and Mytob worms, as well as the Rbot trojan.

Who will enforce the law?

Re:ought oh

[Anonymous Coward]

probably morocco. they're under islamic law, which can be pretty brutal. too bad for him i guess.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers" Ahem, I had thought that Zotob had removed spyware? odd but true

Re:What?

[-kertrats-]

It removes other companies spyware along with the spyware it adds, as far as I know. Some sort of attempt to take out the competition, I guess.

Re:What?

[slavemowgli]

No, it's the other way around - Zotob is cleaned by some other worms.

F-Secure has a hi-tech diagram how it works here.

Re:What?

[tsu doh nimh]

RTFA! IF you RTFA, you'll see that the conversation between the UPENN guy and Diabl0 was PRE-ZOTOB - they were talking about a variant of Mytob.

The question remains

[Anonymous Coward]

who was paying him ? from what country ? follow the money and all will be revealed

Oh, *phew*!

[MutantHamster]

"In the back-and-forth, Diabl0 says his worms "spread only for money" and hints that the motive was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers."

For a minute there I thought he was a real asshole.

Re:Oh, *phew*!

[leonbev]

Oh, and YOU think that you have a reason to hate this jerk... I do Windows administration for a big company that refuses to patch its systems in a timely manner! This worm kicked my butt, and I want vengence! Can I volunteer to join the lynching party for this guy, or is the waiting list already too long?

Re:Oh, *phew*!

[Anonymous Coward]

they should assign him a nice long community service stint helping new computer users eradicate viruses/spyware, set up security measures for them, and generally show them how to use the machine.

i bet he'd never do it again..

Re:Oh, *phew*!

[jayloden]

You know, the funny thing is, I see this ALL THE TIME. I work on a virus removal tool in my spare time, and the motive for every single one of these worms is twofold.

1) Just as in this case, they are using spyware referrals to make cash off of every install. My first experience with this was realphx.com's IM worm in 2003, and they've pretty much all done it.

2) Oooooh look at me, I'm a script kiddie! All bow before my awesome coding prowess! Instead of using my meager, supposed skill to build software for a non-profit, or work on open source software that benefits others, I was a jerk and copied and pasted a virus together out of borrowed code!

It's sad, but that's the way it is. At first when I started, I thought it was a one-off type of thing, I'd make a removal tool for a worm and get out of the whole mess. Instead, because there's still money and allure in it for the script kiddies, it's only gotten worse and more prolific.

I've actually tracked a couple of these idiots down to the point of getting names, addresses, and phone numbers of the author(s). Usually it's some teenage kid with an inferiority complex. Makes me wish it was still like the days my parents grew up in, where you could call the kid's parents and tell them the situation and be assured it would be addressed appropriately.

I'm not that old myself (21), but there was never a time in my life that I would have considered using any ability I had to harm other people. It always amazes me how differently people's minds can work. I think to myself "well, I may not be a genius, but I can cobble together some half-assed software, maybe I can make a useful tool for some people". Someone else thinks "well, I'm a 1337 hax0r, I could make a virus and make money off it!"

Something must be done!

[metamatic]

Clearly we must ban this "money" immediately if it encourages criminal behavior.

Re:Something must be done!

[Sabaki]

No can do. Surely you've heard that money has root access to all evil?

Re:Something must be done!

[WillAffleckUW]

Clearly we must ban this "money" immediately if it encourages criminal behavior.

Exactly, if in fact it is the root of all worm designs, then we should make it worthless.

.

.

I for one welcome our new overpaying tech overlords, even if they they make us create worms for fun and profit ... um, are you sure that's not "eat" worms?

Re:Something must be done!

[sl4shd0rk]

If you outlaw money, only outlaws will have money.

Re:Something must be done!

[DaHat]

All the better, without money, the root of all evil would be gone, therefore the world would be a wonderful and groovy place. Peace man!

Re:Something must be done!

[FidelCatsro]

And when judgement day comes rm -rf /

Re:Something must be done!

[str8]

Surely you've heard that money has root access to all evil?

All evil being the government (all countries) of course. Without money to gain, why would anyone go into government? Oh yeah, power. But how would they get people to put them into government?

Psst, Hey buddy. Can you spare a .sig?

Re:Something must be done!

[WilliamSChips]

I find your intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Or something like that. I never got the hang of that meme.

Re:Something must be done!

[DigitalReverend]

I can just see the terminal session now (goes into a dream sequence)....


C:\WINDOWS>telnet all_evil
Connecting To all_evil...

SunOS 6.6.6

login: root
Password: money

Last login: Tue Jun 6 06:06:06 from 72.69.76.76
Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS 6.6.6
all_evil@hades [/] rm -rf /

Re:Something must be done!

[crawling_chaos]

Hell upgraded to SunOS? I thought they were a Windows shop for sure.

Re:Something must be done!

[Anonymous Coward]

When are currency authors going to learn to stop coding things like moneyd with root priviledges to run. Totally irresponsible behaviour.

Re:Something must be done!

[LittLe3Lue]

Satan decided that Windows just wasnt the right infrastructure to use if he planned on having Hell up and running for centuries without crashing.

The other one is...

[Poromenos1]

42!

Re:The other one is...

[bleckywelcky]

Hold on a minute, you mean the answer to life, the universe, and everything is not money? Boy am I in the wrong line of work.

Re:The other one is...

[nutznboltz]

The answer to 100% of the questions is $42.

Commission Theft

[HermanAB]

There are companies that makes huge amounts of money from installing redirection software on computers, for example 180 Networks. The software effectively makes online purchases appear to originate from 180 Networks, therefore if a user goes to for example Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, or Dell, or anybody that pays referral commissions to buy something, 180 gets sent a commission. Obviously for this to work properly, new commission theft software needs to disable or remove existing commission theft software.

Re:Commission Theft

[MightyMartian]

There are companies that makes huge amounts of money from installing redirection software on computers, for example 180 Networks. The software effectively makes online purchases appear to originate from 180 Networks, therefore if a user goes to for example Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, or Dell, or anybody that pays referral commissions to buy something, 180 gets sent a commission. Obviously for this to work properly, new commission theft software needs to disable or remove existing commission theft software.

Man, it's just so damn Darwinian.

Re:Commission Theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's* an interesting writeup regarding 180networks.

On another interesting note, the privacy policy of the site where 180 networks 'officially' distributes it's crapware, http://zango.com/, bears no mention of this referrer-stealing. Ironically, they are even so bold as to show a little anti-spyware animated GIF at the bottom of the page**.



*Coral cached to avoid toasting some poor web server just because it hosts an interesting file.
**No coral cache for leeching scumbags.

Re:Commission Theft

[the-build-chicken]

you know, if someone made a program that did this where all the referal commissions went to worldvision or a big charity like that, I'd install it in a heart beat.

One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[ackthpt]

Diab10: [hack, code, hack, code, code, hack...]

un..deux..trois! CRASH

Diab10: wtf :p

Police: j00 r u|\|d3r 4rr35t, m0|\|513ur! :p

Diab10: u c4n't kn0ck? i'11 1053 my d3p05it, 100k 4t th4t d00r! r3ck3d! :(

Police: s0rry m0|\|513ur, w3 s4a11 g0 b4ck 0ut5id3 4nd try 4g4in, 0iu? :)

Diab10: w311, 0k.

Police: <kn0ck kn0ck kn0ck> Diab10: wtf, wh0 r u? :p

Police: <13 p01ic3>

Diab10: g0 4w4y, i'm n07 h0m3 :p

Police: <s4cr3 b13u, 332 g0t 4w4y!> >:(

Diab10: :)

Police: <w4it 4 s3c0nd...>

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[rogabean]

Thank you for wasting 3 minutes of my life on reading a single /. comment.

Good laugh though and impressive use of that skit.

(I'm not kidding. It took me just under 3 minutes to decipher that)

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Anonymous Coward]

s/513/5i3/
s/r3c/wr3c/
s/s4a/sh4/
s/0iu/0ui/
s/13 /14 /
s/332/h3/

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Anonymous Coward]

j00 r0>0rZ \/\/i7H |_|R 1337 ty|)i/\/G 5Ki11Z d00D

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Nice post. The sad part is I had no problems understanding it.

I speak two languages, english and l337.

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Khalid]

Very funny :) In moroccan it would have been even less readable though !

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Virak]

Really? I would've though most slashdotters would know more languages. Personally, I know english, bad english, AOL speak, l33t, and engrish, among others. And yes, I had no trouble reading it either. Guess this is why parents want to keep their children off the intarweb...

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Anonymous Coward]

Me too!

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Anubis350]

damn, not sure if it's worse that I broke out laughing at that and scared my roomate or that I read it without even thinking about it (scaring me :-P).

good stuff!

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that subset of English known as AOLLCAPS. (I originally typed this all capitalized but couldn't get it past the lameness filter).

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[MegaFur]

...
Ok, I realize it's your poragative, but is there really any point to *correcting* l33t speak? I mean I thought it was all about the k405, so... if some of it's "misspelled", then what's the point really?

Re:One Fine Afternoon in Morroco

[myth24601]

Remember when June Cleaver spoke Jive in Airplane? That was funny.

A question about the Turk guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Was he from Istambul or Constantinople?.

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Neither. He was from Byzantium...

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

No idea, now all I know is that it's turkish delight, on a moonlit night.

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

lol

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Istanbul, you insensitive clod!

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[JeanBaptiste]

That's nobody's business but the Turk's

Re:A question about the Turk guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

The city of Antioch.

Jail

[Anonymous Coward]

They should jail this idiot for a long time and confiscate all the money he earnt doing this.

Getting rid of him won't help much. Other tards will soon follow his lead. Death penalty for anybody that does this?

Re:Jail

[ackthpt]

They should jail this idiot for a long time and confiscate all the money he earnt doing this. Getting rid of him won't help much. Other tards will soon follow his lead. Death penalty for anybody that does this?

Wait until he rats on the people who pay him, then put them all in the same cell.

Re:Jail

[Doug Coulter]

Hope he does rat them out. These low level guys aren't the problem -- if you have money, you can always find someone with low morals and some skills (I run a business and look for BOTH to be good in a potential hire. This means it's hard to find people I want to work with.) It might be more interesting to find out where the real problems come from. Ok, I'm cynical and think I know already...It would still be good to have the sources of this publicly confirmed. Interesting that up until recently, what I call the Kung Fu effect has more or less protected this fragile network infrastructure. I know plenty of people who could bring the whole thing down, but they love it being up, and like a real martial arts master, have nothing to prove, so they don't go around beating people up gratuitously.

Yet another reason to outlaw spyware

[WillAffleckUW]

If it's the source of worms, we should hunt down and capture them.

Not the worms, the worm creators.

Um, we're not on Arakeen, are we?-)

Re:Yet another reason to outlaw spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

Showing my nerdness, I must correct thee!

Arakeen is how one describes something from the planet Arrakis (also known as "Dune"). Therefore, the correct way to say that is "Um, we're not on Arrakis, are we?"

Also, kids, remember to never turn on your shield when you're on Dune! Worms love them and atomic lasers mix with them like /.ers and supermodels!

Parent funny as hell!

[cruc]

Brillant haxxor skit sir-funny, written well, local flavor added. You have my compliments and admiration. And yes, it took me about 3 minutes to comprehend it too.

I was wondering about this...

[vgan]

I thought it was a little strange that this "virus" would remove other adware (Viewpoint, Gator, etc..) before dumping its own payload. Now I get it.

Re:I was wondering about this...

[gkozlyk]

How come this worm can remove Gator, but i can't?

Re:I was wondering about this...

[budgenator]

Removing Gator is some serious shit, I'm not sure degaussing the harddrive always gets rid of it.

Re:I was wondering about this...

[0x000000]

Can we get the code that removes Gator? One could make millions selling the program to remove gator.

So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did?

[AstroDrabb]

Seriously. Corps here in the USA are constantly allowed to "push the bar" as far as they can. Consumer opinion need not apply. Why is is OK for a "capitalistic" company to personally allowed to cost you money/time, yet if a private person does it, it is a "crime"?

I am soooooo, sick of the politicians and their corruption. I personally don't see any "fix" besides a civil war in the USA to blow the shite out of the corrupted politicians.

How much longer should we sit on our fat @sses and let the big corps have privileges that we as private citizens could only dream of? Why should a corp be allowed to commit a crime and only get fined yet, if a private "citizen" committed the _same_ crime would get jail time?

I personally see nothing wrong with what Diabl0 did. After all, he was looking out for "share holders best interests" to MAKE MONEY, so why shouldn't he be protected just like all the other corps that "just want to make money"?

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[WillAffleckUW]

Seriously. Corps here in the USA are constantly allowed to "push the bar" as far as they can. Consumer opinion need not apply. Why is is OK for a "capitalistic" company to personally allowed to cost you money/time, yet if a private person does it, it is a "crime"?

Last time I checked it was illegal to create spyware.

Sadly, you do point out that the execs at the corporation don't go to jail.

The Moron's Businiess Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Wait till MS announces a new exploit.
2. hack up a virus, release on 'net
3. ......Jail!

Re:The Moron's Businiess Plan

[duplo]

4. ???
5. Sore ass

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked it was illegal to create spyware.

That's a bold statement. Can you point to the law that makes it illegal? And just to CREATE it? Like having lockpicks in your posession without being a locksmith?

Answer to the hundredth question?

[slugo3]

100. Porn

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[WillAffleckUW]

yes, there was a law that went thru Congress just this summer. But, you raise a good point, I don't know for certain that it also went thru the Senate nor that it was signed by the Kaiser, so I can't for certain say that it is provably illegal to install spyware, intentionally or (hah!) unintentionally.

Unlike some people, IANAL. But I fantasize about them on occassion, provided they're female ...

just follow the money

[budgenator]

just follow the money, sooner or later it leads to a weak point, finding one weak point leads to the next. Next one corrupt official wonders why he's not getting the money and narc's out the one who is; quickly the well oiled machine starts to spasm and jerk as the institutional knowedge is jailed and the peons start make the same mistakes over and over again.

A new generation of virus author?

[AltControlsDelete]

I remember a time not all that long ago when the primary motivation for a kid writing a virus was to see his name in the lights or to learn something about technology. I could never really find fault with that, even though what they were doing was clearly misdirected and destructive. At least they were learning something, and being misdirected and destructive is what all kids do almost as a matter of course.

To read this now is both unsurprising and saddening, like the end of an era. A part of me misses the simple pleasure of a BBS, a modem, and people who had to care enough about technology to visit the same places that I was. Reading this story is where the new age of the Internet really hit home for me, though it's certainly been this way for at least a couple of years. The people who care simply don't have their own home anymore, or if they do I don't know where it is. Now that anyone can get on the Internet and the primary motivation for exploring technology is the cash offered by malevolent advertising, I can only sit and be dismayed at what this has all become.

I guess it's all spilled milk and sour grapes for me, though. And I'm sure those who were around at the very beginning, in the late 70s and through the 80s would look at me as a disrespectful babe in diapers for not showing up until the early 90s and sullying what they'd built just as I look upon this jerk as a harbinger of a new generation that just doesn't care.

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent!

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[nolife]

primary motivation for a kid writing a virus was to see his name in the lights or to learn something about technology.

The person under question could have got all the same things you mentioned, except he had the potential to get paid as well. The learning experience was still there unless he just whipped the virus up in a few minutes and it worked first time.

There was a show on the Discovery channel about some dude and his wife making countfeit replicas of casino coins. He was a hacker at heart as noted by the trouble and work he went though to get the coins just right. Of course the motivation and end result was money, but dude picked up a lot of metallurgical knowledge and machining and fabrication skills along the way pretty much all on his own by trial and error and reading. If he did not have the true desire to take himself to that skill level, he would not have gone through with it. Giving the final product away for free or spending them himself makes little difference in the matter IMHO.

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[C0llegeSTUDent]

>>A part of me misses the simple pleasure of a BBS, a modem, and people who had to care enough about technology to visit the same places that I was...The people who care simply don't have their own home anymore, or if they do I don't know where it is.

Google snatched them all up and is "artifically" raising their salaries. Damn it Google!! Why must you be so cruel?

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[Anonymous Coward]

The people who care simply don't have their own home anymore, or if they do I don't know where it is.

They live in invite-only gated net communities. If you open the gate for a bad guy, you get booted out. Witness GMail. It is probably the largest, most well-known example.

People on the outside often whine about being left out. People on the inside are careful about who they let in. Kinda reminds me of the good ol' days. Back when you got access to internet hosts with backbone access only after you earned a lot of trust.

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[Antique Geekmeister]

Don't rely on this punk to tell the truth about why he wrote a worm. If he can sell out some spamware salesman to lessen his own jail time in a Moroccan jail, you can bet that he'll bargain to keep his precious 18-year-old ass out of a jail cell with some very, very protective cellmate doing hard time who will consider him very, very precious.

Re:A new generation of virus author?

[blast3r]

I am going to guess he was still learning since he was logged into the IRC server from what appears to be his home pc.

From the chat capture
[DiablO(DiablO@rox-107404E3.adsl.iam.net.ma)]

That reminds me...

[lullabud]

...of this time I was at this strip club and... er... nevermind.

kiddies

[Anonymous Coward]

Now maybe they'll catch the rest of the kiddies running around #bottalk on irc.rizon.net

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike some people, IANAL. But I fantasize about them on occassion, provided they're female ...

So do you fantasize about lawyers, or backdooring females?

If only the kid had incorporated...

[Serveert]

he could have avoided this legal mess.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally see nothing wrong with what Diabl0 did. After all, he was looking out for "share holders best interests" to MAKE MONEY [...]
--
Senior Programmer
Clermont, FL

Florida ...

Why am I so-not-surprised?

Typo

[Tordek]

There's a slight typo in the article.
They spelled it moroccan.

"cca" wasn't suppossed to be there.

on that 'removing spyware' note...

[Phil Urich]

I don't suppose anyone has come up with a benign version of this, that only does the removal? It'd actually be pretty useful to have a tool like that around, yaknow; a quick viral fix for your clogged home network! I can see it being of great help whenever fixing friends' systems, eliminate some of the potential problems with a quick infection, how poetically perfect!

Re:on that 'removing spyware' note...

[ampathee]

The worm doesn't remove any spyware properly - it deletes some files and reg keys, but doesn't do a proper job.
Also, a tool similar to that you've described is stinger. It removes viruses, not spyware though.

Re:on that 'removing spyware' note...

[Splintax]

I think the OP just wanted software to remove one specific virus. In that case, go to Symantec Security Response, and look for the particular virus, then download the removal tool.

SR page for Zotob.L
Direct link to to removal for e.g. Klez.A (old, obviously ;))

They don't always provide removal tools, but often do for the major viruses that cause problems. Stinger is good too ;)

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[monkeydo]

Sadly, you do point out that the execs at the corporation don't go to jail.

The execs aren't the corporation, so if the corporation misbehaves, why should they go to jail? If you think that they should go to jail because they "should" know and be responsible for everything the corporation does, that's actually a better argument for locking up the board of directors. OTOH, if the executives themselves misbehave, they do go to jail. See Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia...

Next question

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, the next question to be answered is:

Which department of Microsoft commissioned it?

Oh, wait...

Whoops...

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[DirePickle]

I agree. Let's send the corporations to jail, instead. Or do we just euthanize them and tell everyone that works there to go home?

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[aeoo]

Well said. The shite the corps are getting away with has really been "pushing the bar" for a long time. It was all OK as long as everyone had their day time TV. But now that TV content sucks (no good Star Trek shows), people are starting to notice how screwed up the situation is. :)

Either give us good TV, dammit, or else.

Cartago delenda est

[HermanAB]

Traditionally, their main purpose is to annoy Europe or attack it with elephants or something - nowadays, it is computer viruses. I think I prefer elephants...

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you euthanize something that isn't alive?

1337

[leckmi]

i wait for the codex-aware oldschool 1337 hacker guy who writes a worm that breaks into windows boxes and fixes security holes, does registry optimization and finishes with a friendly message to the end user explaining what was done.

As a 3M ITer...

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a lot of this, and yes it does install a lot of this type of adware. It made sense, just think how many "references" that would be?

Well of COURSE it was for the money!

[__aailob1448]

I'm a moroccan national and I can tell you that prospects are grim for the youth over there. They have been for quite some time and things just aren't getting better.

  While this Diabl0 guy was only 18, there is no shortage of university graduates who, after 4+ years of studying, find out that there is no such thing as a job market for them.

  The most resourceful and those with affulent families escape to europe and the U.S while those of more modest origins or stronger ties to their country get bitter and are forced to take up any crappy job they can find.

  It is inevitable that more cyber-criminals will emerge in Morocco. Cybercafes are cheap and those unemployed folks have plenty of time to devise moneymaking schemes.

Oh, i'm one of those who escaped. Every summer I return, I look and I despair.

Re:Well of COURSE it was for the money!

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I have assume the 400.000 Moroccans that come here (Holland) to wear headscarfs and turn more and more to fundamentalism are the resourceful ones???

Why the h*ll do you have to return every year? No immigrants I know visit their 'old' countries evry year. They just go on holiday to Spain or France like Dutch people.

That's the problem isn't it? You want to emigrate but stay Moroccan. You come to Europe JUST FOR THE MONEY.

Re:Well of COURSE it was for the money!

[yarbo]

I met a Finnish girl who moved to Austria but visited her family every Winter.

I know many Indian immigrants (6+ years in the US) who go to India every Summer.

Re:Well of COURSE it was for the money!

[Anonymous Coward]

there is no shortage of university graduates who, after 4+ years of studying, find out that there is no such thing as a job market for them.

Oh, so it's like the US then?

Re:Well of COURSE it was for the money!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, but India isn't full of crazy fundies.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[ScentCone]

Ask Enron. It's dead. Ask Arthur Anderson: dead.

Can't wait for Bio Viruses

[ziggy the zagnut]

Sorry I gave you that exotic new disease... I was just trying to make an honest buck by selling you the cure! I didn't mean to wipe out your town. :(

So, I have to ask...

[NotQuiteReal]

So WHY, in your opinion, is Morocco that way?

Re:So, I have to ask...

[mckyj57]

Islam.

Re:So, I have to ask...

[__aailob1448]

You might as well ask why any third world countries are that way. I'm not the right person to ask.

Re:So, I have to ask...

[Anonymous Coward]

Backward and corrupt culture...

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[ScentCone]

Corps here in the USA are constantly allowed to "push the bar" as far as they can

Beyond which, they're acting illegally.

And it's up to state and federal legislatures to redefine what is and is not legal for companies to do. Recent legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley places enormously more scrutiny and burden on large companies. Why? Because a very small number of them pulled some dumb shit, and now everyone who forms a corporation is "evil" until proven otherwise (or, from your perspective, evil no matter what). Presumbly that also includes, say, a band that incorporates to handle their recording expenses and t-shirt revenue, too. Evil, so evil!

Why is is OK for a "capitalistic" company to personally allowed to cost you money/time, yet if a private person does it, it is a "crime"?

Maybe you'll get a lucid answer if you ask a more relevent question. A corporation costs me money when I elect to do business with them, or when I elect public figures that contract with them. They don't really have any other legal vectors by which to "cost" me money. Sort of like the guy deploying worms on the net doesn't have a legal way to waste my time.

Why should a corp be allowed to commit a crime and only get fined yet, if a private "citizen" committed the _same_ crime would get jail time?

Specifically what crime are you referring to? You can certainly cost everyone in a company their jobs, and cost all of the company's investors all of the college-fund money they had tied up in the company's stock... good enough for you? Check with Enron, or Arthur Anderson. People working at those companies, but which had nothing to do with the bad acts of a few people, paid the price. Good enough for you? Other people did go to jail. Good enough for you?

After all, he was looking out for "share holders best interests" to MAKE MONEY

Do you even think about the words you use? MAKING money means producing something, and in a market economy, doing so in a way that finds a willing buyer at a mutually agreed price. Someone sneaking spyware onto an unwitting person's machine sure as hell isn't participating in a market economy, he's a parasite.

right shmite

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you get into the "rights" issue (shmissue), nothing gets done. Do they have a "right" to force others to live in their country and be subject to their laws? Do you have an obligation to help those who wish to escape, or to at least let them into your big chunk of (mostly unused) land?

Interest.
Capability.
Will.
There are what matter in the real world. Philosophy is for those who couldn't cut it as mathematicians.

But I don't suppose you'll much go for that previous message, so I'll come at it from a different angle, since you're a moral man. Immoral deed being done by an organized body which claims to have a monopoly, or at the very least a mandate, on justice, are still immoral.

And sure, other people's morals are different than yours, and you're "aware" yours "aren't necessarily right", but you're working under the assumption that they are.

Re:right shmite

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

>>Immoral deed being done by an organized body which claims to have a monopoly, or at the very least a mandate, on justice, are still immoral

But immoral by whose standards?

Mine?
Yours?
Theirs?

It's their country, by what "right" do I have to tell them how to run it, and conversely, what right do they have to tell us how to run ours?

None, except by force, and so far, that's not being considered.

Irony

[serutan]

Diabl0 says his worms "spread only for money"

If he ends up in prison he'll be spreading for different reasons.

"Diabl0"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Handles were so much cooler before they were b1fferized.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Jesus IS the Devil]

You're a moron. First, where did it say Diabl0 did this on behalf of any corporation?

Second, tell me which "corporation" has legally gotten away with illegally hacking into user computers, then installing a trojan that will allow them to install whatever they want?

Third, WTF does this have to do with the USA specifically? MOST countries today are capitalistic.

It seems you have a beef with USA/corporations/capitalism and are just using any excuse to drag them down.

Oh yeah...

[LittleBigLui]

...just want to add to my post:

If the USA (and the UK) kept their armies and "intelligence" agencies from fucking around with the rest of the world, the world would be a better and safer place. Iranian oil, Iraqi oil, Venezuelan oil is none of your fucking business. You don't have any right to it.

Yes, you have a near-perfect education system that produces plenty of cannon-fodder (poor and/or brainwashed enough) that your well-funded armies can send to whatever place they want to steal whatever stuff they want.

No, that still doesn't mean you're right.

</rant>

The other one is... SEX

[Agarax]

And here I thought it was sex.

Re:The other one is... SEX

[-brazil-]

No. Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. "Yes" is the answer.

Re:The other one is... SEX

[Anonymous Coward]

Only in your imagination.

Re:The other one is... SEX

[r2q2]

Which can be bought by money. Ergo money is the first answer and the second is paying off the ho.

ahahahah no way, moroco king will take care of him

[Anonymous Coward]

specialy his ass... someone has to feed the beast aahahahahhahaha

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

Second, tell me which "corporation" has legally gotten away with illegally hacking into user computers, then installing a trojan that will allow them to install whatever they want?

My Windows-using roommates have more than once returned to their desks to find their computers have rebooted themselves after automatically installing some unspecified "updates" from Microsoft...

Follow that money!

[Anonymous Coward]

...hints that the motive was receiving commissions from installing spyware on infected computers.

If this is true and can be proven, then the money trail should be followed and used to prosecute those who provided the money incentive for this virus.

Prosecuting the writers of such viruses is not going to do any good as long as these people are left in business to fund the next round!

Re:Follow that money!

[abb3w]

If this is true and can be proven, then the money trail should be followed and used to prosecute those who provided the money incentive for this virus.

IANAL, but conspiracy charges might be able to stick.

So you're saying most Islams don't follow Quran?

[msauve]

The Quran has many passages directing violence toward non-believers. Here's one:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them"

(Quran Sura 9:29-30)

Feel free to find a different translation, I believe that this one accurately reflects the original meaning.

can you say nda

[suezz]

microsoft will probably make him sign an nda and then use his code in vista.

they probably think it is a great marketing tool

Re:So you're saying most Islams don't follow Quran

[-brazil-]

The Quran has many passages directing violence toward non-believers.

So has the bible. In fact, it's not some vague "fight them, may Allah destroy them", it's "Kill your own family and friends, and the Lord will bless you for it":

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

So your point is...?

What a cunt.

[Patchw0rk F0g]

I can figure someone doing it for the rush... perhaps for the kudos of the haxxor l337... but money? Money only?

Where has the love gone, I ask? It's as if the Rolling Stones did their latest DVD in some frost-bitten, forgotten capita...

Nevermind.

google caters for u

[rednuhter]

http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/

and there is also

http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-klingon/
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-piglatin/
etc etc

The point is...

[msauve]

that an historical report is different from a generalized command.

The Biblical quote you give is an historical report of a specific event. The Quran text was a generalized command.

Furthermore, mainstream Christian belief is that the "New Testament" gives the rules for the religion, essentially replacing any given in the Old Testament, which is relegated to being a historical narrative. (note that the 10 commandments are re-iterated in the New). Mainstream Christianity also believes the Bible is subject to interpretation and not necessarily literal truth, fundamentalism is a minority view. Witness current debate within the Christian community over evolution vs. 7 day creation.

AFAIK, mainstream Islam believes in the literal truth of the Quran and Liberal Islam is the minority view.

That's not to say extreme violence hasn't been practiced by Christians claiming Biblical support, such as the Crusades or the Inquisition. I believe most, if not all, Christians would today repudiate those actions. While there are certainly Christians today practicing violence, any doing it in the name of their religion are an extreme minority.

Modern Islamic calls for Jihad and violence against "infidels" are prevalent, although certainly not universal.

As with most things, there are shades of grey. But it seems that the balance shows mainstream (when considered globally) Islam promoting violence against non-believers.

Feel free to correct my understanding, I don't claim to be an expert in either religion.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Epistax]

I'm pro civil war too for pretty much the same reason. Corporations have more rights than Americans, and the politicians won't do anything about it. That is grounds for removal of government.

Article text - Coral Cache wasn't working

[Anonymous Coward]

Software from 180solutions (also known as MetricsDirect) redirects many affiliate commissions to 180. As a result, merchants pay commissions to 180 (and its advertiser partners) even when no commissions are payable under the terms and conditions of merchants' affiliate programs, and even when commissions are properly payable to other affiliates. 180 causes these commissions to be paid via at least 84 different affiliate accounts, using multiple intermediary domain names that redirect affiliate tracking HTTP traffic, making 180's activities particularly difficult to track and to prevent.

Overview & Summary
Some web sites ("merchants") pay commissions to independent third-party web publishers ("affiliates") who recommend and link to merchants' products. Proper tabulation of affiliate commissions relies on a multi-step process, requiring coordination by merchants, affiliates, and (often) affiliate networks who help track the transactions. (Details about affiliate programs.) Software from 180solutions (also known as MetricsDirect) interferes with this tracking process, seizing affiliate commissions for 180's benefit and for 180's advertiser partners.
In my testing, 180 software specifically and systematically causes merchants' tracking systems to conclude that users reached merchants' sites thanks to 180's efforts, even when users actually reached merchants on their own or through other affiliates. As a result, merchants pay commissions to 180 even when no commission is properly payable (under affiliate program rules), i.e. when users reach merchants' sites without receiving bona fide recommendations from independent affiliate web sites. In addition, 180 causes merchants to pay commissions to 180 even when commission is properly payable to other affiliates -- who actually recommended, encouraged, and facilitated users' purchases from the merchants.
To seize affiliate commissions, software from 180 must first become installed on users' PCs. See discussion in 180solutions Installation Methods and License Agreement.
Once installed on users' PCs, 180 software performs four main functions:
1. 180 transmits to its servers information about the web sites that users visit. Each transmission bears a domain name (or other trigger condition), as well as a unique user ID that lets 180 build profiles of users' online activities. (details)
2. 180 shows popup ads, which generally cover substantially all of the targeted web sites. In my testing, 180 typically covers web sites with the sites of their competitors. (details)
3. 180 shows duplicate copies of merchants' sites, where the second copy has been reached via an affiliate link. As a result, merchants pay commissions to 180 (and its advertisers) on the resulting purchases. (details)
4. 180 opens hidden windows with invisible copies of merchants' sites, where the invisible sites are reached via affiliate links. As a result, merchants pay commissions to 180 (and its advertisers) on the purchases of affected users. Since 180's activities are silent and (to a user watching the computer's screen) invisible, this behavior is particularly difficult to detect. (details)
180's activities have attracted attention from some targeted merchants, leading some merchants to remove 180 from their affiliate programs (details). (Nonetheless, at least 300 major online merchants remain affected. (details)) 180's activities have also attracted attention from affiliates who are upset to lose commissions when 180 overwrites their tracking codes. (details)
To date the two largest affiliate networks (LinkShare and Commission Junction) have failed to remove from their networks all affiliates using 180solutions, despite behavior that seems to violate the networks' rules. (details) In the short run, the affiliate networks benefit financially from 180's activities -- even as merchants, other affiliates, and users suffer. (details) Meanwhile, the next-largest affiliate network (Shareasale) has removed 180 from its network. (details)

Return to top
Backgrou

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

"The execs aren't the corporation, so if the corporation misbehaves, why should they go to jail?"

For the same reason that if you drive a car into a bus queue and kill people, they don't send the car to jail.

What do they teach these kids in schools? Next you'll be saying that executives don't carry the responsibility for and have the control of what a corporation does, or that people who willingly shoot other people have a right to hold their guns responsible.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[MagicBox]

Yeah, I also bet your parents were war protesting, pot smoking hippies.....

Money!

[Anonymous Coward]

Even more of a reason outlaw money!

Re:So you're saying most Islams don't follow Quran

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

First, verse 30 is about Ezra and Jesus really doesn't apply - "may Allah destroy them" is not "you destroy them in the name of Allah." Other translations make this more clear by saying things like "Allah's curse be upon them" instead.

Verse 29 is about the jizyah which is essentially the non-muslim version of zakat - a roughly 10% tithe. The way it works is that zakat supports the operation of the islamic state, if you live in an islamic state, but you don't pay zakat because you aren't muslim, you still have to do your part to support the government because you are still provided the basic services of government regardless of your religion.

To say that verse 29 justifies violence against non-muslims is like saying that the 16th amendment justifies violence against all US citizens.

Tax...

[msauve]

you claim that the jizyah tax "is essentially the non-muslim version of zakat." But that doesn't seem to be the case. According to the source at http://voi.org/books/jihad/app2.htm, the jizyah was about 10 times the amount of the zakat. From searching, it appears that the standard for zakat is about 2.5%, so even your own example of a 10% jizya proves a discriminatory difference.

The same article quotes the Hidayah as stating:

"...a species of punishment, inflicted upon infidels on account of their infidelity, whence it is termed Jizyat, which is derived from Jizya, meaning retribution.

That sure doesn't sound like a simple alm to pay for government services.

Just the simple fact that jizyat is obviously different (in name, in rate and in who is subject to it) from zakat argues against any claim of them being essentially the same. Furthermore, the amount for jizyat is not specified in the Quran, and hence set by a government (Khilafah), in which the taxees are not allowed to participate.

Re:Tax...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

A hindu website is hardly the place to go for an unbiased account of islam. There is no shortage of documents on the web that seek to portray any religion as heinous. I suggest you look for sources that at least try to be unbiased.

For example: zakat and jizya

Even so, at least you've been able to go from "islam adovocates violence against non muslims" to "islam inflicts taxation without representation." That's a lot of progress for an infidel to make in the time between two posts.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[WillAffleckUW]

most of the lawyers i know are female, so that probably has something to do with it. plus last night was a steamy episode on that lawyer show ...

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[AstroDrabb]

You're a moron

Thanks, and so are you! There, I came down to your level, feel better?

Second, tell me which "corporation" has legally gotten away with illegally hacking into user computers, then installing a trojan that will allow them to install whatever they want?

Umm, corps have been getting away with tons of crap for a long time now. Toxic waste dumping, damage to the environment, illegal monopolies, etc, etc. My beef is that if it is just a citizen not hiding behind a corporate shield, they often get "made an example of" by the feds. When it is a medium to large sized corp with enough money, they get let off with just a fine.

It seems you have a beef with USA/corporations/capitalism

Nope. I have no beef with the USA, I was born here and even served in the U.S.M.C. I have no beef with all corporations. I work for a fortune 500 that is very ethical IMO. I have no beef with capitalism, I think it is the best system in the world. My brother-in-law just started his own business.

My beef is with the corrupted politicians and the way they sell laws to a lot of the big, rich corps. Those laws some how always manage to screw the little guy.

Re:So you're saying most Islams don't follow Quran

[AstroDrabb]

Have you ever noticed that when people want to say something negative about Christianity they pull quotes from the the Hebrew Scriptures(Old Testament)? The Hebrew Scriptures were given to the Jews not the Gentiles.

The New Testament is quite clear on how Christians should look upon the old laws of the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the whole law(Hebrew Scriptures) is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 5:14

You're missing the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual, you are assuming that the we want to take another country's oil.

This is not true.

The motivation is to keep the price of domestically produced oil high.

If we have to take the foreign oil to do that, then so be it. If we can just install some wahhabist fanatics, or slaughter a few thousand innocents (whichever is cheaper) then that's OK too.

The prime directive of the Texas Lege has always been "You dance with thems what brung ya". .....THINK.....

Re:So you're saying most Islams don't follow Quran

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps that's because most of the neocon Christian right-wingers tend to rely on the Old Testament to support their hate. And let's face it, those are the folks that push our buttons, not Joe and Jane Hymnal who go to their Presbyterian church every Sunday and bring a dish for the potluck lunch.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Anonymous Coward]

Every generation in order to progress must prove previous generations ideas false. Many times people say this as proving them wrong. This has moral undertones that I am trying to avoid. This generation has outgrown the legislation of morality. I could name several examples of what I am talking about but I think the best is the catholics rule over the dark ages. There was no progression as anyone trying to prove that they were false beliefs was killed (one belief was that the world was the center of the universe). I think the politicians would serve us better if they were to legislate accountability, and responsibility but not morality. Get rid of your moral undertones and I would agree with you on the issue. Anyone not playing fair or by the rules should be penalized. Capitalist corporations or individuals.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Jesus IS the Devil]

Thanks, and so are you! There, I came down to your level, feel better?

You are a moron because of the content of your post. It wasn't just some random name calling.

Umm, corps have been getting away with tons of crap for a long time now. Toxic waste dumping, damage to the environment, illegal monopolies, etc, etc. My beef is that if it is just a citizen not hiding behind a corporate shield, they often get "made an example of" by the feds. When it is a medium to large sized corp with enough money, they get let off with just a fine.

What are you talking about? Corporations are being auditted, fined, and executives are jailed. You ACTUALLY believe that if this guy had operated the same illegal activity from behind a corporation, that he would not be going to jail?

Nope. I have no beef with the USA, I was born here and even served in the U.S.M.C. I have no beef with all corporations. I work for a fortune 500 that is very ethical IMO. I have no beef with capitalism, I think it is the best system in the world. My brother-in-law just started his own business.

My beef is with the corrupted politicians and the way they sell laws to a lot of the big, rich corps. Those laws some how always manage to screw the little guy.

I think most people don't like corrupt polititians either. However, your main argument wasn't about that. It was that I personally see nothing wrong with what Diabl0 did. That is the part that's ridiculous. On the one hand you are vilifying "corrupt" polititians, saying there should be a revolution, then on the other, you say there's nothing wrong with what he did. Either it's wrong, or it's not. Can't apply double standards here, unless you can PROVE that had Diabl0 done the exact same thing while being the owner of a corporation, that he would still not be punished the same, risking jail time and a huge fine.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[AstroDrabb]

You are a moron because of the content of your post. It wasn't just some random name calling.

I am rubber, and your glue. There now, we are back to your level. Justifying naming calling is just stupid. You sound like a teeny-booper trying to justify what you did wrong. Name calling adds nothing to a discussion.

What are you talking about? Corporations are being audited, fined, and executives are jailed.

Huh? What are _you_ talking about. Corps have been getting away with tons of crap for _decades_. Did anyone personally get in trouble at MS because of their actions that were found to be monopolistic practices? Nope. MS was able to blame it on the "Corporation". Though a non-living/fictitious corporation was not able to make the decisions that caused MS to be judged an illegal monopoly that caused consumers and other corporations countless dollars. Some one(s) at MS made those decisions and yet didn't even get a $1 fine. As far as executives being jail, it takes some pretty _BAD_ things to happen first such as an Enron for those exec to get anything more than a slap on the writs.

You ACTUALLY believe that if this guy had operated the same illegal activity from behind a corporation, that he would not be going to jail?

Yup. He would have just gotten a fine. I have received more spam crap from "corporations" than from private citizens over the past year. Corporations are allowed to spam me as "targeted advertising", yet if a personal citizen does it, it is spam or adware. I have had tons of USA "corporations" that I have had _zero_ affiliation with send me their spam at home and at work over the past year. All of the spam is basically the same from these corps. It says "this is the _only_ message you will get from us", sure, until the next one I get. "If you want to unsubscribe, click here", sure and then you know my email is valid and spam the crap out of me. Most of the spam I get now is from major US corporations that are sending me "targeted" advertising. Sadly, if a small-time business guy tries the same thing, it is spam, adware, spyware, etc. I get tons of crap from MS, yet I have _never_ personally signed up for _any_ of their spam emails. Though this is OK because it is MS, a company with billions. What Diabl0 did is "wrong" because he was just some small-time guy trying to make some money the same way the big corps do.

Oh, and if you think the big corps are all clean wrt spyware, think again. The big corps have been _the_ big advertising dollars that have kept spyware companies running. How many of these huge corps have been hit as hard as this small-time guy Diabl0? None.

Just a few "big" quotes for you:

Mercedes-Benz says its ad was carried to hard drives last year by an agency it has since fired (like MB didn't know what their "advertiser" was doing).

Computer maker Dell USA has fired "a handful" of affiliates for carrying Dell's coupons and ads over adware.
"This is not a practice we condone," said Dell spokeswoman Jennifer Davis.
Uhh, yeah, you didn't condone it, you just paid for it.

Re:So what is wrong with what with what Diabl0 did

[Jesus IS the Devil]

I am rubber, and your glue. There now, we are back to your level. Justifying naming calling is just stupid. You sound like a teeny-booper trying to justify what you did wrong. Name calling adds nothing to a discussion.

You're still a moron.

Huh? What are _you_ talking about. Corps have been getting away with tons of crap for _decades_. Did anyone personally get in trouble at MS because of their actions that were found to be monopolistic practices? Nope. MS was able to blame it on the "Corporation". Though a non-living/fictitious corporation was not able to make the decisions that caused MS to be judged an illegal monopoly that caused consumers and other corporations countless dollars. Some one(s) at MS made those decisions and yet didn't even get a $1 fine. As far as executives being jail, it takes some pretty _BAD_ things to happen first such as an Enron for those exec to get anything more than a slap on the writs.

That's according to YOUR opinion. The DOJ tried Microsoft for years, at taxpayer expense. You think all of this was nothing more than a show? Also, you are comparing apples to oranges. You think hacking into a massive amount of end user computers and infecting them with trojans is on the same level of monopolistic behavior by a company? Well I don't.

Again, you have dodged the question. Show me exactly HOW a person hiding behind a corporation would be able to get away with the same exact crime perpetrated by Diabl0.

Yup. He would have just gotten a fine. I have received more spam crap from "corporations" than from private citizens over the past year. Corporations are allowed to spam me as "targeted advertising", yet if a personal citizen does it, it is spam or adware. I have had tons of USA "corporations" that I have had _zero_ affiliation with send me their spam at home and at work over the past year. All of the spam is basically the same from these corps. It says "this is the _only_ message you will get from us", sure, until the next one I get. "If you want to unsubscribe, click here", sure and then you know my email is valid and spam the crap out of me. Most of the spam I get now is from major US corporations that are sending me "targeted" advertising. Sadly, if a small-time business guy tries the same thing, it is spam, adware, spyware, etc. I get tons of crap from MS, yet I have _never_ personally signed up for _any_ of their spam emails. Though this is OK because it is MS, a company with billions. What Diabl0 did is "wrong" because he was just some small-time guy trying to make some money the same way the big corps do.

Bullshit. Describe to me EXACTLY how Diabl0 would have gotten away if he were an executive at a corporation doing the exact same thing.

As for spamming, you are way oversimplifying things. First, spammers are hard to trace, because they use hacked servers, proxied connections, anonymous email address, etc. To add to this, many are not even in the U.S. To prosecute it would require international cooperation between countries that may have completely different laws. You try and work with another country. Things aren't that simple.

Second, spam laws aren't easy to come up with. Once you get down to the specifics it's not that simple defining what spam is. You're over-simplifying a complex problem, and then coming to a flawed conclusion that therefore the U.S. is corrupt and that all politicians are responsible for this.

Other than your lack of facts to refute...

[msauve]

the stated sources, do you have anything to add? I'm not going to a "hindu website," per se, just using Google. There are many more websites giving the view that jizya is levied as a tribute or retribution payment.

Wikipedia? As an unbiased source? Please. Nonetheless, there we find this:

The Hedaya (or al Hidayah), states that jizya means "retribution", and defines it as "a species of punishment, inflicted upon infidels on account of their infidelity, whence it is termed Jizyat"

Perhaps you can inform us whether zakat must also be paid under penalty of death?

Re:Other than your lack of facts to refute...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I'm not going to a "hindu website," per se, just using Google.

You quoted from a hindu website, what, you think google only indexes unbiased sources?

The Hedaya (or al Hidayah), states that jizya means "retribution", and defines it as "a species of punishment, inflicted upon infidels on account of their infidelity, whence it is termed Jizyat

So, just how exactly does picking just one of the points of view presented there disprove the other, particularly the one held in the majority? Yeah sure you can IGNORE it, but which actually makes more sense? Do you think non-muslims should just get a free ride in a muslim state?

Perhaps you can inform us whether zakat must also be paid under penalty of death?

How about you use that thar google thang to answer the question for you? Or perhaps you did and you already know the answer is yes. There are plenty of cases where zakat was required by force. Do you think the IRS will just let you go if you don't pay tax in the USA?

Furthermore, even without google, if you thought about it for just a second you would see that it is obvious. Zakat is one of the 5 pillars if islam. If you can pay it but you do not pay it, then you are not a muslim. If you are not muslim, them you pay jizyah. Capiche?

You are twisting in the wind on this one.

You've just made a good point...

[msauve]

Thank you. I had not decided, but was researching the various viewpoints regarding Islam and violence. Comments here were what appeared to me to be the most frequently encountered ones when Googling on the subject. You've helped settle the matter.

The IRS doesn't kill people for not paying taxes. Christian churches don't kill people for failing to tithe or for failing to fulfill contribution pledges. I'm not aware of any other state or religion which expouses death for failing to make a monetary payment.

From this you have shown that Islam is more violent than modern secular or Christian societies, in the most extreme way possible.

Re:You've just made a good point...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Dunno what you are talking about, you are the only one who said anything about, "espousing death for failing to make a monetary payment."

Looks like, despite all your protestations to the contrary, your mind was made up long before you posted.

Re:You've just made a good point...

[Anonymous Coward]

> I'm not aware of any other state or religion which expouses
> death for failing to make a monetary payment.

> From this you have shown that Islam is more violent than modern
> secular or Christian societies, in the most extreme way possible.

Hey Mr. Google-Makes-Me-An-Expert-But-I'm-Stil-An-Idiot here's a big freaking hint - nobody has collected jizyat for centuries. The Taliban wanted to, but even they never really did. Neither has force been used for collecting zakat for centuries either.

If the worst you've got on modern Islam is questionable taxation issues from centuries ago, then you better get down on your knees and pray to Mecca in the morning because jews and christians have it at least 10x worse.

Both the new and old testaments have passages that specify the payment of tributes and tithes just like jizyah and zakat and there have been plenty of cases of people being tortured to death for not making payment. Even the USA kills tax evaders, just look at Ruby Ridge and Waco - both very public examples of state murder that included charges of tax evasion.

Then why don't you...

[msauve]

educate me with authoritative references, instead of unsubstantiated claims and ad hominem attacks?

How are Jews and Christians treated under Islamic rule? Why do we not hear quick and widespread denunciation of calls for Jihad?

You aren't really serious in your claims that Ruby Ridge and Waco were about taxes, are you? Although the "authorities" may have included that in their rationalizations, it should be obvious that there were much more significant social and political issues involved, regardless of whether one feels the actions were justified or not.

Re:Then why don't you...

[Anonymous Coward]

> educate me with authoritative references, instead of
> unsubstantiated claims and ad hominem attacks?

So far all you do is search through google for unsubstantiated claims and ad hominem attacks and treat them as facts. Homey don't play that game.

> How are Jews and Christians treated under Islamic rule?

Better than muslims are treated under jewish and christian rule. You think otherwise? YOU dig up the authoritative references.

> Why do we not hear quick and widespread denunciation of calls for Jihad?

Because you aren't listening? After every terrorist attack there are condemnations from muslims all over the world. They just don't sell commercials like hate does, so you have to look for yourself instead of being spoonfed.