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DARPA Grand Challenge Updates
Red Team writes "Today is the day. The official race route for the DARPA Grand Challenge was released to the first five teams at 4:00AM PST this morning. Our race planners are pouring over the race route getting ready for the launch. H1ghlander will start first at sunrise, around 6:15AM PST, followed by Stanford and then Sandstorm. For real-time updates on the race, you can track the Red Team race-day blog or catch the webcast on the official Grand Challenge page." Update: 10/08 20:57 GMT by Z : USSJoin writes "Stanford Racing, home of Stanley, has just finished the 131.2 mile DARPA Grand Challenge course. Considering that the CalTech Vehicle (Alice) jumped off the track toward onlookers only 8.3 miles in, this demolition derby-meets-AI demo has certainly been exciting."
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/darpachallenge/1b7a1e 7eef0d6010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html Apparently, the teams all ready have traveled four times as far than last year. It is great progress for a year.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
H1lander, Stanley, and Sandstorm are all moving at about the same speed. It is like their plans are all the same. Maybe they are all moving at the course limits. Anybody know?
Unfortunately there is not a publicly accessible webcast of the race like last year. I was quite disappointed at that.
Still it is amazing how well the race is going this year. I hope there will be more races with greater challenges.
Can someone combine Google Maps with the XML here: http://www.grandchallenge.org/data/location.xml
wot no sig
Maybe one of them will actually finish this time?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Sure, they're all just happy cars driving a fun race...until they rule us all!!
I, for one, welcome our four-wheel and rear-wheeled drive overlords, and pledge my allegiance to Emperor Camry.
~ slashdot.org - Where some of the world's greatest minds come together to scrutinize grammar.
the goverment use only the brightest children to design military hardware
Looks like the war between GMC and Ford could someday take on a whole new dimension. :o
Last year they provided live feeds of the event. I can't seem to find any for this year, anyone if one exists?
I think this challenge is good to try and spur good sensors to be developed, but in the end I think the whole thing needs a lot of luck on its part. Sure you can map a route in GPS, and tell a car to drive it(basically what most the entries are doing), but to avoid all the obsticles, you either need sensors from the future, or you need a lot of luck. The R&D that needs to go into these next gen sensors is in the billions, so I don't think 2 million prize money is going to pay for it. My guess is that some team will accomplish this route in the next 20 years, but it will be attributed to them being lucky and not hitting obsticles.
God spoke to me.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/10/08/darpagrandchalle nge2005/ :)
With pictures
Most interesting one so far is when Caltech's Alice charged through a k-rail, knocking it over and then started up a berm towards reporters. It was E-Stopped just a few feet away from hitting the media.
Welcome to the future ! The time now is 11h45am PST, I can predict that several cars are going to finish the course this year, one might have been luck, 3 or 4 for is not. Sensors, but more than that, the actual programs that run the car is the key here. Heck even my own personal Lego Mindstrom creations can navigate their way inside my home ! mmm I may enlist a Lego based car bot next challenge !
During last years challenge all contestants were complaining that the thing was rigged in order to get the red team to win. I.e. there were last minute rule changes for which the red team was prepared for, but nobody else was, and some contestants said they had an operational system ready yet they were not allowed to compete.
I am not at all surprised of this, since the red team is sponsored by the major military contractors and we all know how they basicaly control military procurement.
But I was wondering if similar shenanigans were happening this time around. Any of the competitors care to comment?
Here's the starting point in Primm,NV
3537'8.83"N
11522'39.26"W
There's a small poor resolution band going across one section. The rest isn't bad though
"Our race planners are pouring over the race route"
Here:
DARPA Grand Challenge 2005
There is a map updated almost every minute automatically that will show you the position of all the teams and the times elapsed for each, etc. At the time of this post, Red Team Too, Stanford, and Read Team are all doing well, at 94+ miles each. Surprisingly, most of the teams are still in the running (that is, not eliminated). It is hard to compare one team to another however, because each team starts at a different time and perhaps the ones that are far behind are in the hardest part of the course and are thus moving slowly.
I have not seen robots managing with ease and RELIABILITY even mildly unstructured portions of the world. I wouldn't trust a 3 ton vehicle to the Mars Pathfinder's 'brains', for example.
Also, there are cost issues. Manned supply lines could be safer if you invested money (armour, more soldiers, aerial support, etc.), and maybe it is less than the cost of having an autonomous fleet of vehicles that will not be 'fool' proof.
Disclosure: I'm stupid
This means that we are quite a bit closer to the Bolo envisioned by Keith Laumer. Of course, we are nowhere near the Mark XXX CSR.
As it has been throughout history, the next war will be completely different, and yet the same.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because the people who mind don't matter, and the people who matter don't mind.
Now that's some amazing progress.
This is great news for the soldiers soon to be removed the line of fire; "ominous" news for the millions of truckers and taxi drivers (in the US alone) who'll be quickly replaced over the next decade.
Power to the Peaceful
You couldn't be closer to the truth, except if you had read that :
One of the numerous sources here
One contestant seems to have veered off course to hump a rock.
Table-ized A.I.
hmm, not so sure about that. logistics is stil hauling stuf from where you have it to where it is needed, and you have limited resources to do that. What does it matter that there is a computer in the drivers seat instead of a soldier?
Even in wars where one of the parties had bodies to spare (vietcong anyone?) this did not make a significant difference to the problems of logistics. You are just swappinig one problem with the other.
What good is a truck in the middle of the road with a broken part, if you compare it to a manned truck with an emerency repairs kit? Dreaming of armadas of autonomous vehicles is nice, but unless they are made in china, it will cost way too much to buy them.
Or alternatively let those soldiers that are otherwise totally unproductive, produce something to do something unproductive more efficiently.
But they will make for more spectacular fireworks. Instead of blowing up one ammunitions truck at a time, 'the insurgents' can just plant a bomb on the vehicle and blow it up when it has reached it's destination. Smart ammunitions indeed.
I'm updating the Wikipedia page. Updates with links to videos plus google maps - add stuff if you've got it.
l lenge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_DARPA_Grand_Cha
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
Ten miles to go, three entries (Stanford and both CMU vehicles) are close together, with Stanford well in the lead. Now approaching the section with the one-lane dirt road with the 1000 foot drop on one side. Is there a live video feed of this area anywhere?
Well cool. Thanks.
wot no sig
Total time: 7 hours, 8 minutes for a distance of 132 miles, which amounts to an average of 18.5 mph.
Dedicated Linux servers (root access) $45 p.M.
The two CMU vehicles have made it through the last tough parts, and they should finish in ten to fifteen minutes.
Four other teams are still running, but are too slow. None are halfway yet.
The Standford Racing Team, Team number 3, has made it to the finish line in approx 7hr 30 min.
From the darpa site http://www.grandchallenge.org/ it appears that the Stanford team's entry "Stanley" has complete the entire course in 7h28m. Although I cant seem to find anyone posting anything about it yet.
"Alcohol, cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -Homer Simpson
Stanford got this one on the bag!!! This is a very grand achievement!
it's across, and nobody is going to beat the time it got. average 17+ mph
They took second 8 minutes behind stanford.
It looks like there is a bug on the DARPA status board. For teams that have finished the race, it appears that the time is still being counted. e.g. Stanford finished at 7 hours and 26 minutes, but as of right now, the board reflects Stanford's time at 7:46.
Well maybe but I can forsee smart enemy engineers disabling and reprogramming unmanned vehicles for their own purposes.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
So it's over.
Autonomous vehicles will never be a joke again.
WRONG. Read parent posts before posting. You were obviously not that glued to the screen otherwise you would have noticed the clocks continuing despite Stanford finishing over half an hour ago. They also must account for various pause times, so although nothing is official, Stanford probably still won.
Is it time for a chorus of "Fight for the Glory of Carnegie!" ?
A question, wouldn't an autonomous supply chain be considerably EASIER to disrupt than one driven by human beings? 'Insurgents' (being human beings themselves) are always going to be smarter than your autonomous vehicles.
UAVs work because most 'insurgents' don't have sufficient firepower to knock them down and in all of the modern US wars we've seen the US dominates the airspace.
However a ground vehicle would seem to be a considerably easier target.
It just all seems part of the US fetish for replacing humans with technology in order to reduce human casualties, which in themselves are tragic but even worse for your PR when you're trying to wage an ethically bankrupt war in a foreign nation.
Just thought I would mention a bit about the "Live update" times on the DARPA Grand Challenge Site since everyone keeps referencing them and they haven't been worth a damn all day:
1 - The timers were started ~20 minutes before the bots took off for at least Red Team Too, Stanford & Red Team and never reset.
2 - The bots were sent out at 5 minute intervals in this order H1ghlander; Stanley; Sandstorm, but Sandstorms time as only been 2 minutes off Stanley's all day, hmmmm.
3 - As someone mentioned the official clock for each bot is stopped if it is ever paused by the chase truck but it is clear that since the clock for each of the current finishers is not stopped YET, that the "live update" times are not linked to this official timer.
So, unless someone is posting from Primm or DARPA has posted official finish time since I started this post we all should just sit tight till those times are out.
Although, since Stanley started second and finished first he is most likely the winner (no, I'm not from Stanford; actually from CMU).
Kudos to all those that competed and Congrats to those that finished!!
A supply convoy doesn't have to be completely autonomous. In hostile territory you still need an armed command and escort vehicles and those won't be autonomous.
Even in non-hostile territory a convoy desn't have to be autonomous. One or two human drivers and maybe a tech to monitor things could handle a twenty or thirty vehicle convoy and still be on-the-spot if something breaks down.
Just because you could have a completely autonomous convoy doesn't mean it must be completely autonomous.
Problems with the current technology make this very unlikely, at least in the short term. For example: Set up a flimsy but opaque wall around all four sides of the automated vehicle. Uh-oh too bad it's stuck. Send somebody in to take the supplies and commandeer the vehicle. Game over.
Man I hope that tech gets some serious danger pay.
There was this guy who had been to about every bar in town. So one night, he hopped into a taxi cab and told the robot to take him to the best bar in town.
The robot took him to a bar, where he got half-drunk. He hopped into the same cab and said that the bar wasn't good enough. The robot took him to another bar, where the guy had the time of his life.
The next morning, this guy was in yet another bar telling his buddy what a good time he had the night before, but he couldn't remember where he was. All he could remember was a red door and a golden toilet seat. "Man, we gotta find this place," said his buddy.
So the two spent half the day searching for a bar with a red door until they found one. They walked in, and the guy asked the bartender, "Was I here last night and too drunk to tell? All I remember is a red door and a golden toilet seat."
The bartender hollered to the back, "HEY, FRED. HERE'S THAT SON OF A BITCH WHO TOOK A SHIT IN YOUR TUBA LAST NIGHT."
That won't work.
If you automate the supply convoys, none of your supplies will ever be delivered because every one of those convoys will be destroyed. Why? because the enemy has no incentive to NOT attack them. They can blow up driver-less robot trucks all day long and they know that nobody in the convoy is gonna do a damn thing about it.
Right now, there is an interesting phenomenon going on where you are statistically worse off in a uparmored HMMWV in Iraq then you are in one of the old thin skinned ones or even a Toyota 4-Runner. The insurgency is smart enough to know that if they hit the armored HMMWVs (driven by regular Army and NG units) that the convoy will simply power through the ambush, get out of dodge and never be seen again. They are easy targets because they don't put up a fight.
Marine and Army Special Forces unit doctrine has those guys driving a bit to get out of the deadliest part of the ambush, stopping, dismounting and bringing the fight to the enemy. While the insurgents are pretty good with the sneaky roadside bomb (IED) and suicide ca bomb (VBIED), they are cowards when put into a standup fight. Marines, SF and (when they engage) Army units kill all the insurgents when they dismount and bring the fight to the enemy and the insurgency knows this. End result? Insurgents don't attack as many Marine or Army Special Forces units even though their vehicles are not as buttoned up as the Big Army.
Automated convoys would be like a free buffet. Blow them up all you want; until you find a way to defend that convoy with some effective, automated technology, insurgents are going to attack them at will and you will never get any supplies. And no, you won't just be able to bolt on armor to solve the problem- in the race between better armor and bigger bombs, the bombs easily win.
military hardware design the children! Do other countries use their dumbest children to design military hardware? That could explain the fact that America is the only superpower.
The ticket-tape on the grandchallenge.org site is now displaying "October 9th operations possible; no winner declared".
Tony is probably mulling over doing some sort of tie-breaker round for the top 3 teams. Not a bad idea, there's probably something new to learn by going at it one more day.
Maybe next year they'll make it interesting and allow SABOTAGE while the race is running! That would be a hoot, and make it more realistic for what DARPA wants.
Pair this with the Sniper finder robot and the automated attack tower we have seen in the last couple days though and I wouldn't want to mess w/ something that returns fire automatically and w/o deviating from it's primary mission.
I do security
This is impressive. Four successful finishers in under 10 hours.
In ten years time if Bush has his way the only people who will be able to afford the gas to run anything will be the Chinese military! Of course Chaney will be gone, unless he gets cloned. Knowing the oil industry this might just happen.
Bullfrogs to the military being the most important use of robotic technology...much more important will be the advances in public transportation.
As the other poster who replied to you mentioned, there's always that sniper-finding robot to counter the scenario you describe.
There's also a Phalanx gun, which can target and destroy an incoming projectile (like an RPG or missile) before it makes impact. I'm sure it could be modified to fit on a humvee in an automated supply convoy.
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Spell it right. Thank you.
...Stanford probably still won.
Man, you mean I have to put up with ribbing from the Stanford guy at work?
[sigh]
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
There's also a Phalanx gun, which can target and destroy an incoming projectile (like an RPG or missile) before it makes impact. I'm sure it could be modified to fit on a humvee in an automated supply convoy.
Phalanx guns are BIG, like several times the weight of a humvee even before you load the ammunition.
Besides, I wouldn't be too worried about guided missiles being aimed at a convoy. You should be more worried about antivehicular explosive charges (mines) and RPG's in convoy defense. Automated convoys also need to worry about EMP devices taking out unshielded equipment (basically, external sensors) and crackers getting into control systems to divert vehicles, to state two more sophisticated attacks that might be devised.
Regards,
Ross
You do understand that George Bush is well into his second term and will not be allowed another? That he and Cheney will be long gone before your ten years are up?
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I suppose since Stanford won the race, their robot should be called the Stanley Screamer.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I was preparing an entry for the 1st Grand Challenge, and was thrown out by DARPA's absurd rule changes.
They changed the rules daily for more than 3 months, and claimed publicly that they had not changed anything.
The rule changes left every team unable to build anything for the constant redesigns to meet these rule changes.
Aparently, DARPA's methodology is:
1. Announce a challenge, that many people were able to do the first year, with a $1 Million prize
2. Change the rules constantly so that few people are able to mee the rules
3. Disqualify all qualified entrants, leaving half-assed teams from the big names
4. Lie, and say you never changed the rules
5. Hold a disasterous challenge
6. Finally, stop changing the rules
7. Watch the big names build entries that meet the now-static rules
8. Delcare that you have "done the impossible"
9. Thank God that you have run off all the rif-raf, and that only the multi-billion dollar groups will even talk to DARPA any more, post-Grand-Challenge
I can not be the only one who was stung by DARPA's lies in 2002...did anyone else notice the constant changes?
Andy Out!
The obvious solution would be to escort the unmanned supply vehicles with manned defense vehicles. Sure, the convoy wouldn't be "completely automated" anymore, but you'd still be getting the same supplies through, while risking 90% fewer soldiers' lives, so it would still be a big win.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.