CNN Interviews Kevin Mitnick

phantom writes to tell us that a couple of days ago Kevin Mitnick gave an interview to CNN further deconstructing his past exploits and discussing his current activities.

Comments

Old news

[Fyre2012]

and wtf just happened? i got a 'nothing to see here' page when viewing the comments

Re:Old news

[ThE_DoOmSmItH]

i seem to always hear people going on about the "Free Kevin" epic, as it was big in 2600, and other online referances, however, there were a lot of other people given the same injustice. No one had a "Free Zyklon" (if you know who that is), or thounght to say much of anyone else.

-TM

so..

[sakura the mc]

is the motherfucker free yet?

Re:so..

[Anonymous Coward]

I know he was scheduled to do a couple of seminars at a certification mill here in the OC, the good instructors quit over it. The guy is a fucking jerk....

404

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing to see here, please move along.

Damn, he's good.

Re:404

[Anonymous Coward]

It still doesn't change the fact that he's a filthy, mendacious Jew. Stick him in an oven right after a good shower.

Re:404

[bani]

Hi shimomura. Or is it markoff?

Nice to see you're back.

May I be the first to say

[Mateito]

Fr33 K3v1n!!!!

Re:May I be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Free Kevin as in Beer?

Re:May I be the first to say

[Mateito]

Free Kevin as in Beer?

No. As in Osama.

Re:May I be the first to say

[commodoresloat]

Free as in Willy.

Re:May I be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Free as in speech.
Free as in beer.
Free as in Willy.

Cool.

Re:May I be the first to say

[Rorschach1]

* with purchase of any Kevin of equal or lesser value. Void where prohibited. Cash value 1/20 cent.

Re:May I be the first to say

[GMFTatsujin]

Free Kevin with purchase of Kevin of equal or lower price.

Re:May I be the first to say

[majiCk]

kevin_t kevin = malloc(sizeof(kevin_t))!!

Re:May I be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Form over/in_addition_to function. He was pretty good looking when he was on the lam. Most geeks cannot say this. I've found myself attracted to him for years now.

yippee

[getkashyap]

First Post!!!

/Kash

"past exploits"

[Capt'n Hector]

hahahahaha oh that's rich.

DOD

[Anonymous Coward]

"I have an idea: H1r3 K3V1N!!"

Sigh

[typical]

Why is it that people get so worked up over Mitnick?

He was a dick to a bunch of people, he got in trouble, he spent some time in jail. Okay, that sucks for him, but why does everyone drool over him?

Woz was an electronic prankster, but he wasn't a jerk, and he *created things* instead of just making people unhappy. I could see being a Woz fan, but waving a "Kevin" flag is just weird.

Re:Sigh

[mcrbids]

Why is it that people get so worked up over Mitnick?

Dude, have you *read* the story of Mitnick? Yeah, he did some things he shouldn'ta. He knew it. He was a dick. He also didn't send out P3N15 spam, nor did he do any particular damage to the systems he infiltrated.

But where it gets interesting? His prosecution... He was denied more rights than most people know they have, and was even denied right to a phone call because they feared he could launch bombs by squeaking ringtones into the phone!

Simple absurdity.

Re:Sigh

[QuantumG]

Have you ever considered the possibility that Mitnick attacked people who were evil/unethical themselves? For example, if the world had not been informed how trivial it was to clone analog cell phones the technology may never have advanced. The corporations didn't give a shit about how primitive the cell network was and how trivial it was to attack. They were only interested in hunting Mitnick down and getting him arrested for fraud. Call me crazy but I would have prefered it if the police had arrested the cell network engineers for hiding information about how insecure their network is from the public. The GSM networks of today are slightly more secure, but they're still hackable. Why? It's not like putting a crypto chip into every phone to do a proper Diffie-Hellman key exchange would be prohibitively expensive anymore. The reason is that upgrading the network to support cryptographically secure key exchange would cost more than it costs to hunt down the few people who still clone sims. So us, the consumers, get substandard security because it doesn't improve the bottom line for the service providers. And it's not like we can just set up our own cell phone network and provide proper security.. you have to be a megacorp that is in bed with all the other megacorps to compete.

Re:Sigh

[h0tr0d]

Because he was the first 'hacker' the public had the chance to put a face to and could truly be afraid of because of all the over-hype by the media. Mitnick's noteriety for his hackery will forever place him in infamy as far as the general public is concerned for the same reason serial killers such as John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and Charles Manson are.

Re:Sigh

[digismack]

It's quite simple actually. Mitnicks actions captured the attention of people not as technically inclined as himself. He inspired peoples imaginations and before long Kevin was toning with his mouth.. (and causing quadrillions of dollars worth of damage!)

Re:Sigh

[Frogbert]

I think it has something to do with him being held without trail for like four years or some such. I don't know many specifics but from what I've read it seems he didn't get his "due course" or whatever you yanks call it.

Re:Sigh

[burne]

Created? Created what? As I recall he was mostly convicted for telephone- and creditcard fraude. Which makes him a common thief, not (his words) the 'Osama bin Mitnick' of the hackercommunity. Which in itself is a strange claim to fame. Does this imply 'somebody' will put him out of business using a MOAB while he's hiding in a cave in Montana? That would be cool, actually.

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is it that people get so worked up over Mitnick?

Because a) the treatment he got was far worse than the crime he committed, mostly because people fear what they don't understand and the government didn't understand computer crime back then, and b) because he didn't get a trial for a really long time.

Re:Sigh

[blhack]

how many other famous hackers can you name? (i'm talking first and last name, not handle). The guy has got name recognition, if you hear the name kevin mitnick, even if you aren't a geek, you KNOW he was 'that one hacker guy'. You hear about woz and you think 'uhh, that guy that co-founded apple computers?'

Re:Sigh

[hughk]

He cost Digital a bundle, both for RSTS/E (an early 16-bit minicomputer OS) as well as VMS. In the latter case, he triggered a complete code review after gaining access to the main VMS development cluster which ended up costing Digital a fortune.

The thing that annoyed Digital is that his attacks against the company were mostly around social engineering, not against the OS itself. It didn't quite kill the company but it caused delays to two versions of the operating system and the introduction of Alpha.

Re:Sigh

[justins]

He was a dick to a bunch of people, he got in trouble, he spent some time in jail. Okay, that sucks for him, but why does everyone drool over him?

There were a couple of things that make the case interesting (not worthy of DROOL, of course). The fact that his crimes amounted to, well, being a dick, but the government and his corporate victims pulled a random number out of their ass as "damages" and it was pretty much accepted without question by the court. That has a certain interest. Much greater damage happens to a much wider variety of systems today but somehow the prisons are not full.

The fact that he was held without being charged for an extremely long time is worrying. I tend to think Mitnick needed a better lawyer, but the judge definitely bought into a lot of BS about Mitnick's magical powers.

I think most people who followed the case just saw the government abusing their power. The sheer pretentiousness of most of the crap written about Mitnick's crimes probably makes some sympathetic to him just by default.

Woz

I don't think I'd take anyone seriously who compared the two men.

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

it's called due process, you shiteating limey...

Re:Sigh

[Isofarro]

As I recall he was mostly convicted for telephone- and creditcard fraude. Which makes him a common thief, not (his words) the 'Osama bin Mitnick' of the hackercommunity.

And Al Capone was convicted for tax evasion.

Re:Sigh

[nomadic]

He waived his right to a speedy trial. If he hadn't he would have been tried a lot faster.

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

so true.

Who cares about some "social engineer"? His
'exploits' are almost universally calling someone
on the phone. Great. He's a schmoozer. A sweet talker.

Big deal.

He tries to play the elite hacker role, but he
has no chops.

His 15 minutes, gained by being STUPID (running off),
are over. Way over.

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Geeks rallying around Kevin Mitnick is like Blacks rallying around OJ.

Re:Sigh

[Wavicle]

This pro-Kevin rhetoric is so typical of those who never bothered to actual read both sides of the Kevin story... Let's see..

Never harmed a soul? Read what he did to make his ex-wife's life miserable.

Kevin disappeared while on probation. He violated the terms of his probation. He committed further crimes of the sort that got him on probation in the first place, and he hid for years. He was only caught because he couldn't STOP doing what got him into trouble in the first place. Two words: FLIGHT RISK.

Was Kevin denied his right to a speedy trial? NO. Read the court documents. HE WAIVED THAT RIGHT.

You have no right to make a phone call by the way. Was it so terrible to block his access to a telephone? Once again, look at what he did to make his ex-wife's life miserable. What nobody seems to bring up is that he is a master of social engineering. He has the know how to corrupt another phone system into letting him make phone calls and once he has that his social engineering skills will allow him to create havoc.

A judge had to approve such a measure, and the prosecution put up the argument that if Kevin did this, it wouldn't be the first time.

So what rights was he denied that should make us all shed a bitter tear? And don't even try the suddenly-became-religious and needs-a-special-diet line.

Re:Sigh

[bani]

first mitnick could launch nuclear missiles by whistling into a phone.

now he single handedly brought down dec's alpha? that's a new one to me. rather good, but a new one.

maybe people should just wake up and realize the alpha was a crap cpu -- way overpriced for the performance it (didn't) deliver.

Re:Sigh

[hughk]

I happen to know a bit about this.

Mitnick used his social engineering skills to get into the VMS Source cluster. The risk of his having interfered with the code (unlikely as his skills were elsewhere) lead to a line by line analysis of VMS. This delayed the introduction of newer versions and thus the introduction of Alpha support.

Apparently he had been involved in an attack on RSTS/E installations which involved the supply of patch tapes including compromised code to target installs so he did have a certain level of 'previous'.

There was a major exploit back in 4.5 (the attack mentioned in Cuckoo's Egg), but otherwise VMS was extremely secure and that was a strong selling point. Mitnick didn't use an OS vulnerability, rather he tricked someone at Central Engineering to give him a login. Nevertheless, people were less inclined to believe Digital assurances about VMS being a secure system.

You clearly are quite ignorant about CPUs as Alphas had many admirers even amongst its competition. It was overpriced though as Digital had its own fab (an expensive 'hobby') and they didn't couldn't manufacture in enough quantity to bring down costs.

Re:Sigh

[bani]

actually what happened was dec got distracted by itanium, dec lost focus, and alpha development largely ground to a halt. a brilliant move by intel to sabotage the competition. the dec/compaq/hp fiascos were the final nails in the coffin of axp. the 21264 was the last real innovation to emerge from dec, it was all downhill from there.

a friend of mine worked at dec in their unix labs from pre-compaq-merger to the fall of axp and it was interesting to get his insiders view of things.

Re:Sigh

[hughk]

I worked at Digital for a few contracts and was later organising a DECUS security SIG so had access to a lot of the info at the time. Digital's marketing sucked but they were getting better and the Alpha looked good and they were selling well into SUN/HP territory. Mitnick's attacked delayed OpenVMS 5.x and that was bringing the Alpha support.

The Itanium fiasco happened purely because of HP. Compaq-Digital were firmly in the direction Alpha, but HP was in a partnership with Intel.

Re:Sigh

[Sathias]

Does anyone remember a documentary called "Cyberpunk" from the early 90s which had a computer criminal boasting that he could take down all the banks if he wanted to, and if anything ever happened to him then if certain triggers weren't reset every week things would get very hairy for people?

I was just wondering if that was Kevin Mitnick, and if not, who was it? It has been since then that I saw it.

Debunks Some Myths

[J_Omega]

but he denies the stories that he hacked into NORAD -- North American Aerospace Defense Command -- or that he wiretapped the FBI.

He was overheard muttering "I hacked the FBI and wiretapped NORAD."

Re:Debunks Some Myths

[Mateito]

He was overheard muttering "I hacked the FBI and wiretapped NORAD."

Thats only if you play his interview backwards at 78rpm.

Re:Debunks Some Myths

[Zog The Undeniable]

Nope, that was David Lightman (goes off into warped fantasies about Ally Sheedy in gym wear)

Re:Debunks Some Myths

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, he's good !

Re:Debunks Some Myths

[falconwolf]

Thats only if you play his interview backwards at 78rpm.

You won't hear that, you'll hear "Paul is dead." At least I think it was that.

Falcon

law enforcement to world

[Anonymous Coward]

j41L k3v1n

The Broken Interview

[ubrayj02]

There was a good interview of Kevin Mitnick in the third release by "The Broken".

He is a reasonable sounding guy, and I think in the interview with "The Broken" sort of dispells some of the myths that were started about him in the book "Cyberpunk" by Katie Hafner and John Markoff.

I read that book when I was in 6th grade and I was totally blow away. I got a modem and started war dialing and memorizing "at" commands just so I could try and be a badass like Kevin Mitnick.

Re:The Broken Interview

[kakos]

Still a virgin then?

Re:The Broken Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

I read that book when I was in 6th grade and I was totally blow away. I got a modem and started war dialing and memorizing "at" commands just so I could try and be a badass like Kev +++ ATH

NO CARRIER

Re:The Broken Interview

[mcrbids]

. I got a modem and started war dialing and memorizing "at" commands just so I could try and be a badass like Kevin Mitnick.

Yeah. Once upon a time, I knew quite a bit about the Hayes-compatable MODEM command set. It all fell to crap as "compatable" became "hayes-ish". Sad, though, the only ones I actually used over the years:

ATZ - reset the modem to factory defaults.

ATI1, ATI2, ATI3, ATI4, etc. - what kind of modem is this, anyway?

ATDT[phone#] - Dial a phone number.

ATH0 - self evident.

How many do you remember?

Re:The Broken Interview

[ubrayj02]

You pretty much named all that I can remember. It has been a while.

In my freshman year of high school I think that fax machines were getting more and more common - and they had really convoluted AT commands. I think that I was so isolated I just thought the only way to do things was by typing them in manually. I remember trying really hard to memorize all the new commands that came with our brand new 14.4k fax/modem. I even started bringing the manual to school and reading it in class when I had time. Luckily, the book was small and black with no cover art. Otherwise I might not have turned out as cool and well adjusted as I am now (yeah, right).

This is cool though: I never thought the day would come when I could honestly reminisce about old tech on /.

Re:The Broken Interview

[morcheeba]

A/ - repeat last command (?)

ATA - answer

ATD worked without the "T" for touch-tone. My modem would dial one touch tone digit, wait and see if the phone company recognized it (to see if you had paid the touch-tone fee), and then either continue dialing with tones, or re-dial with pulses.

There were a bunch of tweaks to timing that was possible (maybe AT@0) . I made the dial speed really short and lowered the "time from off-hook to first digit dialed" to the minimum possible. I wrote a program to auto-dial every time I pressed the space bar and won a couple of radio contests because I could call in 2x-3x more often than others.

Re:The Broken Interview

[gklinger]

Some of us old-timers remember ATDP or, and how is this for an indignity, having to dial manually with your rotary phone a few hundred times before you got a carrier and popped your handset into your coupler only to have your idiot sister pick up the phone forcing you to later, rinse and repeat.

Clearly I have some unsettled issues here. I'll be quiet now.

Re:The Broken Interview

[dirtsurfer]

ATM was to set the built in speaker, and there were alternate INIT commands like ATW and stuff. You could even get most old modems to dial rotary-style.

Ah I miss the BBS days. Dialing up long distance to download grainy 16 color images of Cindy Crawford and deliver my Qmail packet for the day. Hmm. OK actually no I don't miss it much. But it was fun.

Re:The Broken Interview

[LarsG]

Apart from the ones you mention:

ATE0, ATE1 - echo off/on

AT.. umm. I used to know a lot of them by heart, but it seems that my wetware is lossy. Wikipedia has an article though, if people feel the need to refresh.

Re:The Broken Interview

[foobari]

ATX3 was about the only hayes command I ever needed to add to default dial strings. Ignore the dialtone and just dial - if I had any messages then my dial tone was changed and confused the modems.

Re:The Broken Interview

[jamesh]

I must be an even-older-timer... I remember the days of 'dumb' modems which didn't have any real intelligence, eg didn't do commands at all.

The Commodore 64 modem was capable of auto dialling by pulsing the DTR line (which in turn took the line on/off hook) at the correct rates. I wrote some code for my modem on the Amiga which did much the same thing on the modem I had for that. I was about 13 at the time though... maybe i'm not such an old timer :)

For a while I was also able to dial a phone manually too, by flicking the hang up thing at the appropriate frequencies.

Re:The Broken Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

The vic modem was slightly newer than the manual hand cradle mentioned in the first post. The vic modem allowed you to plug directly into it without a cradle, but was pulse dial. I wrote a program for it. The dialing wasn't noticable slower on our phone system, because we were under a crossbar switch.

I remember at some point it missing up, and dialing 11 pulses for a number instead of, for instanse, 9 pulses for 9. I discovered at that point that 11 pulses was interpreted as * or #, and 12 the other. Also, you can dial out of a phone by repeatadly tapping the off hook to make pulses, which is sometimes useful in certain situtions. Just this summer, I was in a cabin where the electricty went out, and the phone touch pad only worked by plugging into the electrical outlet! I pulsed dialed out with the switchhook so I could complain about the electrical outage.

Re:The Broken Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

ATS0=X : answers the phone after the X rings...

Re:The Broken Interview

[b374]

For a while I was also able to dial a phone manually too, by flicking the hang up thing at the appropriate frequencies.

Well, when I was a lot younger I "worked" in a bar on a summer. The owner had the phone rotary disk blocked and only unlocked it while he was in the area... in the rest of the time I was doing calls by flicking the hang. The funniest thing is that in the end he became suspicious due to high bill and asked for dialed no list from the phone company... lucky for me most of the times I would call his home number in order to talk to his daughter. He never suspected anyhing :)

Re:The Broken Interview

[gregmac]

He is a reasonable sounding guy, and I think in the interview with "The Broken" sort of dispells some of the myths that were started about him in the book "Cyberpunk" by Katie Hafner and John Markoff.

I read that book when I was in 6th grade and I was totally blow away. I got a modem and started war dialing and memorizing "at" commands just so I could try and be a badass like Kevin Mitnick.

There's a slashdot interview where he talks about that book and his "relationship" to Markoff. Also good reading is the lost chapter from The Art of Deception.

Re:The Broken Interview

[mikiN]

I remember using an Elektuur modem (DIY modem kit) to dial up BBSes. It could be switched between 300/300 and 1200/75 baud.

To use the latter you had to connect, besides the 'normal' RS232 lines what I believe was called the RS232 'back-channel' (a seperate, send/receive connection on the same RS232 port).
Now which interface boards can you name that support this today? Even back in the day they were very hard to find. So this required heating up the 'rod, smelling that sweet solder juice again and rigging your own...

Re:The Broken Interview

[Darth23]

Well he was TWELVE so there's a good chance that yes he was a virgin.

Slashdotters making nerd/virgin jokes. What's next?

Re:The Broken Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

Dialing up long distance to download grainy 16 color images of Cindy Crawford ...

16 colours? You didn't have an Amiga and get the HAM versions then? :)

Re:The Broken Interview

[Phishcast]

I used to work for a University's Internet helpdesk. Knowing all the ins and outs of Trumpet Winsock and MacSLIP/MacTCP was my job. There was also a DOS based internet suite called Minuet, some of you may have used it. I think it had its own dialer, mail, news, and FTP all built in (on a floppy disk, no less).

If you had a US Robotics 14.4kbps modem I knew that in order to connect to our modem pool you needed to use initialization string "AT&F&C1&D2". I used to be able to rattle off a bunch of those. Glad we don't need to do that sort of thing anymore. Yuck.

Re:The Broken Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

"Slashdotters making nerd/virgin jokes. What's next?"
Um, idiots not picking Slashdot nicknames with "Darth" in them? Never happen, I know.

Re:The Broken Interview

[John Courtland]

If you wanted pulse, I think you could use ATDP####### (AT Dial Pulse instead of Dial Tone). ATM had 2 bits, or 0-3: 0:mute, 1:dial sound only, 2:dial and connection sounds, and 3: all sounds. 3 got annoying very fast. +++ usually hung up, IIRC.

Takedown?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know exactly how exagerrated or perhaps accurate the movie "Takedown" was?

Re:Takedown?

[B11]

Actually, it was pretty exagerrated, Kevin explained his side to /.ers here a while ago. If you read his books, he also alludes to the fact that some people have really blown-up his capabilities to trump up charges, or insipre FUD in the general, non-technical populous.

Truth is, Kevin Mitnick has become a poster boy for hackers, but he was by no means the most "dangerous" or the most skilled by any means. Most famous yes, most "powerful," no.

Re:Takedown?

[ambrosine10]

There's a good article on Kevin Mitnick in the Rotten Library that discusses this.

Re:Takedown?

[sam_paris]

The difference between Kevin Mitnick and the most dangerous and powerful hackers is that those hackers don't get caught.

I have a friend that was arrested quite a few years back for hacking VISA and NTL and he told me that when he hacked he needed about 2 or 3 minutes on a system before he wouldn't be able to be traced. Also, the professional hackers don't think anything of "rm -rf /"ing every box they hack to remove every detail they were there. Often they would have gone through five or so boxes before their target box so that would involve basically wiping 6 servers. But hey, if it means you're secure!

Re:Takedown?

[bani]

it's an excellent article which puts mitnick, markoff and shimomura in their proper light.

Re:Takedown?

[poopdeville]

Yes, it's surprising (and I mean this seriously) how good rotten.com's journalism is. Granted, they have the benefit of hindsight. But reading the rotten library feels like I'm reading a History journal with profanity.

Re:Takedown?

[Quasar1999]

I doubt we'll ever know who the most powerful is/was. While the person is still alive, no one will know of their exploits. Once the person retires, the people affected by said hacker will never acknowledge it.

Re:Takedown?

[spx]

Yes and the rest of the smart people do as well, too bad we cant spread that word around huh?

This isn't news

[Kasracer]

This is just a waste of bandwidth. No one cares about Kevin.

Why are we glorifying this criminal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Send him back to jail.

Oh what the press...

[Wisgary]

...will do for headlines and viewers/readers... on another note... SOMEONE GET ME OUT OF THE -1 HELL!! I AM SO SORRY FOR BAD JOKES I PROMISE I WILL STOP

Re:Oh what the press...

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I gave you +1 insightful. Use it wisely, let's see you turn around from the dark side.

Re:Oh what the press...

[Ray Alloc]

Don't complain, at least you are FREE to tell what you think, without having to worry about some irrelevant "karma" thing.

CNN is NOT NEWS!

[digital-madman]

This may be slightly off-topic. But I'm not taking anything CNN does serouisly anymore!

I'm in New Hampshire... and half the state has been flooded and destoryed. Did you hear about it on CNN?? Nope... but they have time to interview Mitknick? Cover the winner of the grilled cheese eating contest? Yeah... and we in New Hampshire have epic floods of New Orleans proportions. You can't even get down most roads in teh area... they no longer exsist. But CNN INTERVIEWS Mitnick... laughable really.

Want to see what the CNN wouldn't show you???

My Website, and pictures I've taken or collected from local media, friends, and neighbors.

--OR--

WMUR Channel 9 New Hmapshire

So I spit at you CNN and your crap and pathetic coverage!

-Digital Madman

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Kasracer]

Wow, I didn't even know about that. Wtf is wrong with our news coverage?

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Mateito]

Several Theories: - People in New Hampshire are too left wing to watch CNN - Until drunk chicks head to New Hampshire to flash their chests for beads, nobody is going to care. Seriously - the media coverage is shite. New Hampshire is a nice place (except for the taxes).

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[digital-madman]

You have no idea...

New Hampshire is a Federal Diaster area, FEMA and the NG is here...

and now at 11... CNN interview Kevin Mitnick... infuckingcrediable...

-Digital-Madman

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Macgruder]

Yeah, that whole "reading" thing must be a bit beyond you, eh?

Flooding in eastern states leaves 10 dead has been on CNN.com's front page since Sunday.

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in New Hampshire... and half the state has been flooded and destoryed. Did you hear about it on CNN?? Nope... but they have time to interview Mitknick? Cover the winner of the grilled cheese eating contest? Yeah... and we in New Hampshire have epic floods of New Orleans proportions.

There was a grilled cheese eating contest? Awesome!

George Bush Doesn't Care About Liberal People.

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[digital-madman]

Well Internet has been spotty here in the aftermath... so i couldn't have seen that story.

But my sat tv works..and there was only mention on FOX news... This evening (monday) and this started Saturday night.

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, as soon as they figure out how to blame it on Bush they won't shut up about it. Speaking of which, are you guys getting the help you need up there? If you are, then the last thing you need is CNN crews running around getting in the way and sending you more sightseers and looters. If your not, then you want the media around, you will need a frontperson for your show, detail what is needed, what isn't getting done and note any unneccesary red tape your hitting. Make sure your congressmen, senators, governor etc know they are missing a great opportunity to get some fresh pork barrels. Then when the politicians and their buddies empty the pork barrels you can use them to catch rainwater in the next storm. So take a page from Mitnick's notebook and use social engineering to hack the System. Did Mitnick do anything very technically adept to enter most of the systems he "hacked"? No, he called up and politely asked for username and password and they gave it to him.

Re:CNN is NOT NEWS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha.... you guys are all so cute! CNN is not the news, the US is not the world?

*gasp*

Quick, get me some fanta merah so I can die happy as the world implodes in on itself.

wtf?

[larry bagina]

like when I took code from Motorola and Nokia when I was a hacker to look at the source code. I took a copy, which is essentially stealing

I'm sorry, you just lost my respect. Copyright infringement is not theft!

Re:wtf?

[shark72]

"Copyright infringement is not theft!"

Okay, now do the one about "theft of service," "stolen kisses," and "stealing your thunder." And can you do the one about Apple's "don't steal music" sticker? I just love that one!

Re:wtf?

[Kasracer]

He stole it

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

He took something that didn't belong to him. Sounds like theft to me...

Re:wtf?

[rm69990]

He stole the code. He electronically hacked into systems and stole code. This is completely different than normal copyright infringement, where you legally have access to something and then copy it illegally. He obtained this source code illegally (hence, he stole it). See the difference?

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

hey, it's a straw man. all we need is the tin man and dorothy, then you can go visit the wizard.

1. Someone breaks into your house and takes your tv
2. Someone walks into your house (door was unlocked), reads your gay porno magazines, and leaves.

Do *you* see the difference?

Re:wtf?

[iabervon]

Who said anything about copyright infringement? These were trade secrets, which lose their value if other people obtain them. (Because cell phone providers would be unable to maintain control of their networks with the current design if people knew how to write OS software for phones.)

Re:wtf?

[i_am_not_a_bomba]

"See the difference?"

I saw a difference before your post, but now i'm just confused. That's a pretty crazy leap you made to get to your conclusion.

Lets try and make things simpler and see where we end up?

Copying is illegal?

No, distribution is illegal. Therefore it wasn't anything to do with copyright infringement, so both you and the GP are misguided.

Copying files after breaking into a network is stealing?

No that's just copying files after breaking into a network, a different crime i would imagine (it may be theft but not in the sense that your post makes it out to be).

Breaking into a network breaks various laws, copying files after breaking into a network *is* probably against some law or another but its not 'stealing' in a reasonable sense i.e you haven't taken something away from the victim. Although now that i think about it reasonable people will say that if someone copies some private file they have taken something (data) that's not theirs to take, so i guess as usual nothing is simple.

Could it be something else?

Unauthorised copying?
Unauthorised access?

Or perhaps copying data that you gain access to illegally is just a part of any overall legislation that deals with computer crime.

Conclusion
I really don't know.
But it's probably not so 'simple' as your post makes it out to be (in its roundabout way).
Copying files is not illegal in the copyright sense.
Copying files after breaking into a machine/network is undoubtably against the law in most countries.
It may be deemed theft, but not in the sense that you stole a cow or car. More like theft of trade secrets (is there such a thing?).

The End.

Re:wtf?

[SCVirus]

Its still not stealing, its like breaking into a military base and drawing schematics of a new weapon. Tresspassing, and other crimes not stealing.

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

So would it be ok if I break into your computer and copy some documents that contain your social security number, and all your other personal information? I mean, its not like I'm STEALING anything, just copying.

Re:wtf?

[i_am_not_a_bomba]

Is there a bot on this site that posts stupid mindless two line replys to peoples posts?

It seems to be written something like this:

$array = array(i rape your mother, they steal your children, communists eat your puppies) ;
$bad_thing = array[rand(3)] ;
echo "So by your logic it's ok if $bad_thing" ;

Perhaps if you actually read my post it I quite clearly made out my position on ILLEGALY breaking into a computer and copying its files. Doing so will see in a very real concrete and steel barred prison.

The crime you have committed isn't neccessarely theft in the traditional sense.

Either your going for the 'quick & witty' mod, or you're stupid, perhaps both?

Plus i dont have a social security number, so copying it would be a bit hard. But if i understand correctly it's not exactly hard to get anyway given the prevalence of its (mis)use in your country.

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it would not be OK unless stealing was the only crime, you stupid moron.

You're right, you wouldn't be STEALING anything. You just confirmed your
parent's argument.

Re:wtf?

[robnauta]

You're right. The law makes a distinction between a published work and an unpublished work. Everyone is assumed to have access to a published work (like a book that's in the bookstore or library), and making an illegal copy for profit is copyright infringement. In this case the damages are the number of copies * the sale prive.
Unpublished works are more protected, as obtaining a copy deprives the owner of the exclusive right. Especially source code has a real value, often millions, which would be lost if it were leaked and spread to the public. In this case the damages are the total value of the product, the cost of development.

There was a case long ago where a hacker obtained a document about 911 operating procedures. Initially they charged him with millions of damages, which included a lot of manhours of work, the cost of all computer systems used to write it, etc. When it was discovered a copy of the document could be ordered by anyone for a few dollars, the case was dropped. This is because the crime switched from stealing an unpublished work to copying a published work.

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you fully understand the situation. What you really meant to say was that he committed (1) trespassing, or unauthorized access, and then went on to commit (2) copyright infringement. The fact that (1) was required to achieve (2) doesn't magically transform copyright infringement into "stealing" -- the rightful owner of the code wasn't deprived of his copy after the crime was committed.

Re:wtf?

[Kyont]

> Is there a bot on this site that posts stupid mindless two line replys to peoples posts?

Yes.

So by your logic it's ok if communists eat your puppies

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

String found where operator expected at silly.pl line 3, near "echo "So by your logic it's ok if $bad_thing""
        (Do you need to predeclare echo?)
syntax error at silly.pl line 2, near "array["
Execution of silly.pl aborted due to compilation errors.

-----

[ I still wouldn't call it "stealing" even if he did trespass upon the computer systems.  That implies both that they actually owned the code (rather than having the distribution rights via copyright law) and that it was removed after he looked at or copied it.  To be consistant, then, I would say that he hacked into their computers and copied their code in contravention of the Computer Fraud & Abuse Act, among other things. ]

you may rest easy

[atari2600]

...knowing that Mitnick doesn't give a rat's ass about your respect.

Re:you may rest easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely it should be a rats' ass?

Quickies??

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm new section. Too bad the icon sucks!

interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

CNN: Martha Stewart has glorified life in prison. What were the best and worst things about being behind bars?

MITNICK: Anal Rape, that was kind of a drag. And also the food sucks. On the plus side, the prison quality crank makes the pain and humiliation seem worthwhile.

Mitnick spoke at The Fifth Hope

[gbnewby]

Here is a link to the speaker page: http://www.the-fifth-hope.org/hoop/5hope_speakers. khtml. Scroll or search to get Kevin's speech (two parts; audio only or audio plus video). I got to speak with him a little at the conference, as well as some family members (including his grandmother, who was featured in Freedom Downtime).

Kevin was very personable, and has clearly given a lot of thought to his current phase in life as a security expert. As you might expect from his background, Kevin has a keen mind for remembering details, and observing human interaction. That's part of what I like about his books, as well as from his presentation at The Fifth Hope.

that's ballsy

[xtermz]

they did a phone interview with a guy who could whistle tones to blow up the world and make baby orphans die and stuff. they are lucky he didnt explode their brains with his telepathic powers!

Re:that's ballsy

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean:

They are lucky he didnt explode their brains with his telepathetic powers!

Re:that's ballsy

[Anonymous Coward]

they did a phone interview with a guy who could whistle tones to blow up the world and make baby orphans die and stuff. they are lucky he didnt explode their brains with his telepathic powers!

Yes, the Force strong in him was!

Yoda

Re:that's ballsy

[kd5ujz]

Damn, if he can do that, imagine what John Draper can do.........

kevin at wikipedia

[dutchct]

can be seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick

i sure am out of the loop

[deervark]

i thought crash overburn was the first hacker

Well that is a dumb statement...

[Anonymous Coward]

"You can't be an ethical robber. You can't be an ethical murderer"

You could be a repo-man or a soldier. Those careers use some of the same skillsets.

No, not implying repo men are thiefs or soldiers or murderers, but neither would I call a normal security expert a criminal hacker.

Fear for knowledge

[VincenzoRomano]

History shows that very often government people fears those who show greater or deeper knowledge.
And instead of admitting it and learn they tend to eliminate or restrict that knowledge.
This is why they want us to think bad about hackers.

He toned it down, but I can see the truth

[militiaMan]

This is all BS.. He is lying to please the government. In secret he still longs for the hack. I wouldn't be surprised if he was not working on self replicated robots to get the government back for such crap.

He copied code... Oh my God whooptie freakking Dooo. 98% of India, 90% of China, and 70% of the U.S. use copied binary/source code illegally, but you don't see the U.S. government destroying their lives.

Copying is Not Stealing... Copying is copying is COPying is Copying

If you don't want your code stolen don't write it.

If you want to make it hard to steal code encrypt, obfuscate, and secure it off the internet or intranet.

Fascism is stupid, and when China and India have 10 times the Computer Scientist that the U.S. has the worlds Fascist Government's will piss on themselves. They wonder why know one in the U.S. wants to deal with their low wage and legal bull shit to become a scientist, mathematician, or engineer.

Freedom of information will rule the planet. You must seek out all knowledge or be a slave of brain dead thugs like the U.S. Federal Government. All I can say is leave Copyright and Patent countries to their own demise. Yes I know India, China and others support U.S. with their lips, but the screw them over with their hips. I.E. they completely ignore IP law just like Bush does with his MP3 player.

Fascism, Socialism, and Communism will fail again and again forever.

U.S. Judicial System is nothing more than one of the largest slave camps in world history along with China's.

Uhhh

[axonal]

What's with the vacuum?

Re:Uhhh

[Unordained]

I can only guess it has something to do with "sucking", for which a vacuum cleaner serves as an icon. The ALT for it is "quickies", which reminds me of blow-jobs, which in turn reminds me of idiots using vacuum cleaners to vaguely satisfy their desires (or hurt themselves.) How does this apply to Mitnick? Hmmm. He sucked? He was an idiot? This is all about jerking off to a demi-god of nerddom? The write-up sucks? The linked server's bandwidth is easily sucked? Heck if I know.

We'll probably start to get a better idea of this icon's purpose as it gets used more. Collect some data and whatnot. Stay tuned?

Re:Uhhh

[Unordained]

Ah hell, I even managed to miss the "from the explorations-of-modesty dept." joke. I'm sticking with the sexual inuendo hypothesis for now.

wrong

[circletimessquare]

granparent post was right, he's just a dick

the kind of people who admire criminals do so for one overriding reason: for all of their other failures, criminals do have courage

so if you admire kevin mitnick, you admire him because he has the balls to do what you do not

meanwhile if you don't admire kevin mitnick, then good for you: you probably have a modicum of courage about your character, without the failures of character mitnick has/ had

as for his prosecution, well if that's what gets you fired up, then you aren't really interested in kevin mitnick at all, you are interested in law enforcement and prosecution and rights

those who admire kevin mitnick only do so because they are spineless themselves, and are drawn to anyone who shows initiative, while anyone with initiative in themselves find nothing attractive about mitnick at all, and could care less

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Your theory certainly explains the Robin Hood appeal. People who like the idea of the heroic outlaw, the noble bankrobbers, any of Clint Eastwood's good roles, rum-running gangsters... all are just a bunch of spineless cowards.

Those criminals broke the law! And the law is sacred.

Don't get me started on those fucking negroes who broke Jim Crow laws, or the pizza delivery guy growing pot in his basement.

Execute each and every last one of the criminals, then work to eradicate this tolerance for criminal behavior from the populace until no trace of anti-authoritarian feeling remains.

Re:wrong

[i wanted another nam]

Like taking the initiative to use a shift key, or having the courage to punctuate a sentence with a period and not a newline?

I keed!

Re:wrong

[timmarhy]

oh, give yourself a big fucking rap why don't you? i suppose your one of these initiative possesing gods among men, who shuns any and all for you are supieror!

you obviously do NOT have a clue about the kevin story, and are an egotistical maniac who can't stand anyone being in the spot light as it might detract from you.

kevin didn't do much of anything wrong, he never harmed a soul, but thanks to a certain IDIOT NY times writer he ended up enduring more deprevation of liberties then most people could even think of. he wasn't just treated like a criminal, even criminals have rights. he was totally denied any human contact, held without trail for 3 years, no phone calls or anything. kevin is the poster child for how hysterical your government has become, how it is willing to trample human rights given any excuse.

if you choose to ignore the story of kevin mitnick you may as well put your fucking head between your knees and kiss your arse before your government take aways all human rights in your country.

Re:wrong

[killjoe]

Admire? Who said anything about admire? Oh I see, you have nothing real to say so you argue against something nobody said. How is that working out for you?

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would one need to admire him in order to be outraged by the rights he was denied?

I want certain rights for everyone, including people I hate.

Re:wrong

[DavonZ]

granparent post was right, he's just a dick

Actually, I know Kevin and he is anything but a dick. He knows that he did some stupid things when he was younger, but it was ages ago. Talking to Kevin, he rarely brings up "those days". If you ask him about "those days", he simply says that he made mistakes, did his time and is getting on with his life. He owns a security company now, does lectures and is happy with his family (girlfriend/step-kid).

It is amazing how people who don't know him call him names and mock/criticize those who show interest in his past. If these people really cared as little as they try to portray, they wouldn't bother posting. It is most likely they are trying to hide a feeling of inferiority

Re:wrong

[stud9920]

repeat after me
could NOT care less

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Dumbass, it's possible to admire Mitnick for other reasons - like his technical knowhow.

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, you are one of the people who shows initiative and has a modicum of courage about your character?

Re:wrong

[Zog The Undeniable]

I have no strong opinions on whether Kevin is a martyr or the spawn of Satan, but do you think anyone would turn up to his lectures were it not for his reputation gained in "those days"?

Re:wrong

[stereo_Barryo]

Congratulations on an excellent post. Almost everybody has SOME positive characteristics and courage is a positive one, but someone who has the courage to hurt a lot of people is not admirable. I would be VERY reluctant to hire a person who, as an adult, has demonstrated a low level of character, no matter what his knowledge level is.

Re:wrong

[errxn]

...a certain IDIOT NY times writer...

I think that you're repeating yourself there.

Re:wrong

[rynix]

could NOT care less

Ok now whats supposed to happen ?

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Ultimately we want folk heros.

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

could NOT care less Ok now whats supposed to happen ?

How about when you don't care at all?

Re:wrong

[anonicon]

It is amazing how people who don't know him call him names and mock/criticize those who show interest in his past.

Davon,

You misspelled 'Slashdot.'

Chuck

Re:wrong

[pottymouth]

"..... you obviously do NOT have a clue about the kevin story ...kevin didn't do much of anything wrong, he never harmed a soul,"

        Who doesn't know much about the Kevin story? This jerk caused
        a ton of problems for all kinds of people. Including ISP's,
        baby bells, cell phone service providers and the FBI. I know
        several people who had to clean up the mess he made. He got
        1/10th punishment that he deserved. If this is someone you
        admire you need to seriously rethink your life!!

Re:wrong

[Dr. Evil]

Mitnick was arrested at a time when failure to provide due process, innocent before being proven guilty and right to a fair trial were still popular ideals.

Yes, he was guilty, yes he served his time, yes it was probably an appropriate amount of time... but!

... the process he went through to get to that outcome was very unfair and ignored his rights.

When you get down to it, Mitnick was a screwed up kid who got a power trip out of manipulating people and accessing secret information. He amassed power to do terrible things and did nothing with it. He was physically thrown in handcuffs and locked behind bars, his property seized, his rights were abused and stomped all over, but nobody was held accountable for the violations of his rights, and they probably never will be.

Now who's more dangerous? The criminal Mitnick, or the people who kept him for years without allowing him to see the evidence against him?

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh Noes, he made some people do their jobs and double check the security of their systems? Oh, woe be upon those poor souls..

You think anyone deserves 10x what Mitnick got? Hint: 30 years without a lawyer or charges laid against you is 10x what Mitnick got.

If anyone in a free society who causes next to no physical harm deserves that then it's not much of a free society. Yes, there were 'financial damages' attached to his actions (security audits, etc). Apparently, you feel that the deprivation of rights that even criminals have is a worthy trade for that.

Go back in time, Soviet Russia and Facist Germany need people like you.

Re:wrong

[pottymouth]

Great! I guess we should just rob your house and steal your car so that
you can thank us for teaching you about security! Of course anyone that
insists on punishment for wrong doing is a facist. You're a moron! Pick
better role models and you won't be disappointed.

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, yeah, because I really *advocated* the harm Mitnick caused. Here's a few fucking hints you ignorant twat:

1. Physical property loss and damage do not compare to a strict financial lost (security audits, re-securing systems, re-engineering security procedures). So you can take your analogy with the car and house and slide it up your rectum sideways.

2. Punishment ought to fit the crime. What crime does the punishment of 3 years of near solitary confinement without formal charges fit into?

Now, locking a person up for 3 years without charges or access to a lawyer, that's FACIST.

Do you see me arguing that Mitnick did zero harm? Fuck no. Do you see me arguing that Mitnick is a worthy role-model? Fuck no. Kevin Mitnick is the poster child for the abuse of police power. That's why people like me come out of the woodwork to put down the ignorant.

The man could have drowned puppies while robbing banks and I would still be here defending him if he was locked up for 3 years without formal charges or legal counsel. If a person has commited a crime, arrest them and give them their day in court. The rights of the accused are important to all citizens.

Re:wrong

[kd5ujz]

Knowhow? I think his major skill is relying on people that dont know better. Woz has know how, Kevin is just good at lying his way into a system.

Re:wrong

[pottymouth]

"Here's a few fucking hints you ignorant twat:"

What are you, some little punk? I wish I could see you face to face buddy boy.
No doubt you'd be afraid of the big abusive facist..

"1. Physical property loss and damage do not compare to a strict financial lost (security
    audits, re-securing systems, re-engineering security procedures). So you can take your
    analogy with the car and house and slide it up your rectum sideways."

See my previous comment. You're a moron! So genius, property doesn't equal finance eh?
Tell your realtor that the next time you try to buy some property boy. Maybe they'll
help educate your little pea brain.

"2.Punishment ought to fit the crime. What crime does the punishment of 3 years of
      near solitary confinement without formal charges fit into?

      Now, locking a person up for 3 years without charges or access to a lawyer, that's
      FACIST."

You obviously haven't read anything not written in 2600 magazine. You know nothing of
this case. Why do you pretend you do? Kevin David Mitnick made a deal bud. He admitted,
and bragged about, most of his crimes in conversations with John Littman (The Fugitive
Game). He did the crime and he did his time. The fact that he served his time in the
way that best protected him from the general population at Lompoc is something only
his guards could speak to. Maybe he needed the protection. Lot's of real friendly types
in Lompoc. You'd probably love it.

"Do you see me arguing that Mitnick did zero harm? Fuck no. Do you see me arguing that
  Mitnick is a worthy role-model? Fuck no. Kevin Mitnick is the poster child for the abuse
  of police power. That's why people like me come out of the woodwork to put down the ignorant.

  The man could have drowned puppies while robbing banks and I would still be here defending
  him if he was locked up for 3 years without formal charges or legal counsel. If a person
  has commited a crime, arrest them and give them their day in court. The rights of the
  accused are important to all citizens."

People like you? Morons of the world unite! You have only your ignorance to lose! You're
defending someone that admitted to committing dozens of criminal offenses who then paid
$4000 in restitution and served a total of 5 years in Federal prison. If he didn't want
to serve the time why did he commit the crime and why did he admit it? He had his day in
court, he had a lawyer, and justice was served. What the hell do you want. "Well, he just
caused financial loss so he should just have his hand slapped." Guess what, he had been
busted for similar things twice before! Ever hear of three stikes and you're out? Maybe
we should all just do whatever the hell we want to and let the chips fall where they may.
I'm all for it buddy but I don't think geniuses like you would last long. You better pray
the cops you accuse of so much abuse are around to keep your pansy ass out of trouble!
Really man, get a life! Mitnick's not whining about it, why are you?

Re:wrong

[pottymouth]

Here's a look at Kevin's record. Still think he was abused?
There's no way he didn't get what he deserved.

Kevin Mitnick's criminal record:

1981

Where: California
Charge: Computer fraud for stealing computer manuals from Pacific Bell
Sentence: One year probation

1987

Where: California
Charge: Computer fraud (no details available)
Sentence: Pleaded guilty, but sentence unknown

==> According to Cyberpunk (Markoff and Hafner) Kevin claims he manipulated the FBI's
        system to delete his outstanding warrent. Who know's, maybe he did maybe he didn't.

1989

Where: California
Charges: Computer fraud and possession of unauthorized access devices for hacking into MCI and Digital Equipment computers
Sentence: One year in low-security prison and three years of supervised release
Time Served: One year, much of it at a halfway house for people with compulsive disorders

1992

Where: California
Charges: Computer fraud and possession of unauthorized access devices for allegedly hacking into state Department of Motor Vehicles computers
Sentence: Charges still pending

1995

Where: North Carolina
Charge: Possession of unauthorized access devices
Sentence: Eight months
Time served: Eight months

Where: California
Charge: Violation of supervised release
Sentence: Fourteen months
Time served: Fourteen months

1996

Where: California
Charges: Computer fraud, wire fraud and possession of unauthorized access devices
Sentence: Subject to terms of plea bargain

Here he eventually paid $4000 restitution and was released in January of 2000.

I've got nothing against Mitnick personaly. I've gotten great entertainment from
the books written on his exploits. Hell, I even read his book on security (wasn't
very good though). But there's been no injustice here. The claim that he spent so
much time in jail without being charged is silly. He already had enough outstanding
changes to keep him there a very long time. Eventually he made a deal, served the
remaining time and was released. I wish him luck. Unlike many people here I think
he's done great to exploit the masses that admire him to make a chunk of money and
stay out of trouble. Good for him!

Re:wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, you just go on perfectly happy that you 'won' this argument despite never addressing one simple fact:

Mitnick was locked up for 3 years without being charged with a crime.

And before you give me some crap about him deserving it, he did deserve to go to jail. He was even sentenced for more time than he spent without charges laid. That can only mean one thing: he was supposed to be in jail. He did eventually get his day in court but don't try to convince me that a speedy trial was had (which is supposed to be a basic part of the justice system).

Mitnick's not whining about it, why are you?

He has money to make and there's no money to be had in fighting that pointless fight. He's out and he wants it behind him. Some of us fight this one on the hopes that noone else has to spend 3 years in jail without being charged of a crime.

If he didn't want to serve the time why did he commit the crime and why did he admit it? He had his day in court, he had a lawyer, and justice was served.

Where did I say he didn't deserve to be locked up? I said that failing to charge him was the problem. What reason is there to not charge someone with the crime they commited if they admit to it?

Re:wrong

[spx]

People fear what they dont know, or dont understand, resulting in bad judgement and all the misery it brings with it..... Everyone makes mistakes either at the time knowing or not, and in the end it always comes back to haunt them. The goverment did (IMHO) fuck up and screw over Kevin (weather deserving or not) thats a really shitty ammt. of time to be stuck in. All the people that are bashing are either bored now and just want to stir the pot, or still living in the past and cant seem to get a grip on the present. And if they cared, they would save /. bandwith & space for something more interesting than bashing.

Look at the evidence

[houghi]

http://www.takedown.com/evidence/index.html
Voice mail messages to Tsutomu
Call to Mark Lottor
The attacker's on-line sessions
Sessions from other anklebiters (past and present)
Analysis of the machine state after the break-in
Photo from files stolen from Tsutomu
Netcom login records for gkremen (stolen account)

Fun are the live sessions.

Re:Look at the evidence

[bani]

the entire site looks to me like someone desperate to sell a book.

and people say mitnick is full of himself? they've obviously never seen that site -- all the chest-thumping by the website author gets rather tiresome.

the website is also hideously ugly, almost as if the author doesn't want you to read it.

Re:Look at the evidence

[mcbridematt]

It's deliberately biased against mitnick for financial reasons. There are sites (apparently) pro-Mitnick in some way around too.

Don't think one biased-to-hell source will get you over the line.

Re:Look at the evidence

[gl4ss]

the page is from fucking '95.

and made to make a mint on the mythical at that time mitnick.

blah blah Mitnick crook and traitor blah

[Anonymous Coward]

He was a crook, a thief, a con man who got caught and went to jail. The little punk even tried to steal military secrets to sell overseas. Not a hero, just a criminal. Sheeesh. Go worship someone who deserves it.

FREE KEVIN !

[Ray Alloc]

Hey, the guy is free.

Anyway, nowadays, you can find a real crowd of people who can do a lot better than he used to do.

Loved the Shimomura answering machine messages, though :-)

nitpicking

[zpok]

What the guy says is "which is ESSENTIALLY stealing".
What you say is that you don't respect him because it's not TECHNICALLY stealing at all.

Essentially, that doesn't make too much sense. Copyright infringement doesn't really come into this, or if it does, what he did goes a bit beyond your average copy protection circumvention (which I'm all for, btw).
But when people come breaking into your computer and copying all you have, you can call it whatever you like ;-)

Re:nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

Mitnick has been released from his parole I think, which included bans on public speakiing, using a computer etc. Mitnick had to go back to court to get the speaking ban lifted so I wouldn't doubt his lawyer has advised him to be careful in what he says so as to not rile up the establishment in case they decided to come after him again on old or new charges. Employing the (un)Patriot(ic) Act the Feds could stash him away for life. So if they want him to not say that copying isn't stealing,,,

Re:nitpicking

[zpok]

That's a bit thin. They can want him to not say copying is not stealing, but I doubt he'd actively say that basically it's stealing just to appease them.

What I think is that he said it to cut through the crap and go on with the interview. Basically it is stealing can mean "I got punished for stealing", "whatever the technical crime, just so you get the picture, imagine I stole something" or it can mean he now views breaking and entering for the purpose of copying stealing.

Why not ask him?

Re:nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

Would be interesting to ask him but would you know if you got a straight answer? Mitnick is still in the social engineering business, he has to appeal to his customers as well and it is unlikely that he would make himself popular with the corporate world to state unauthorized copying wasn't stealing. I agree that he probably did make the "essentially stealing" statement just to move the interview along. Not to say that Mitnick didn't deserve punishment for his actions but honestly from what I remember reading on the case the government needed someone to make an example of, Mitnick was available and so was selected, some of what they thought he could do was absurd, someone was investigating Mitnick to make a name for himself and further set up Mitnick for the FBI, they stacked a rediculous set of charges on him to go with some valid ones, he couldn't afford to properly defend himself and made a deal. All of which served to little more to make Mitnick a folk hero and martyr to many. Could probably Google up a bunch of links to either support or force a minor rewrite of what I have said, but frankly Mitnick imnsho isn't worth the time, heck, he wasn't even worth making this post grammatically correct.

Freud

[zpok]

That's just about the most idiotic generalization I've ever read, bar SCO propaganda. I'm quite confident to hand you this compliment even if I don't really know who this Kevin guy is. Have you any idea how many reasons one can have to admire someone? Being spineless seems like a very very distant reason to me. I don't know what it is that bugs you about this Kevin or his fan club, but just reading the article tells me there could be quite a lot to admire regardless of what people think he stands for.
Admiration does not have to be coupled to the whole spectrum of human foibles and weaknesses. You can admire someone's guts even without having actually looked at his innards. You can hate someone's guts and equally admire him for it, etc etc etc...
I think there's even cause to admire this guy just by the emotions he seems to evoke in total - (barely saved my karma there)...

deja vu

[mikek3332002]

I'm surprised the US did that to their own citizens in those days. Now they are just incarcinating foreigners as animals in Gutatinmo Bay. Also their trials are designed to bring a guilty veridict. I imagine if the regualar joe kept his dogs in those conditions he would have been sued/fined big by the RSPCA or equivlant in no time.

Re:deja vu

[abuthemagician]

That's exactly WHY we have Guantanamo Bay. How else can we treat them like the terrorists they are if we have idiots like the RSPCA equivalent running around? Sorry but if someone is in MY country to do harm to a fellow American, they should be treated worse than animals.

Re:deja vu

[Stonent1]

In Europe they'd just release them into the general population and make them "pinky-swear" to be good.

Re:deja vu

[Anonymous Coward]

The prisoners in Guantanamo Bay live in air-conditioned barracks similar to what the soldiers live in. The main difference is the barbed wire fence and guards. I'd imagine a dog would be very comfortable in the conditions the prisoners are kept. Remember though, these were men that were actively seeking to kill Americans so I have little sympathy for their plight. Personally I would've just put a bullet in their skull and moved on, but America is housing them and feeding them and keeping them in relative safety.

Re:deja vu

[elrous0]

I'm surprised the US did that to their own citizens in those days. Now they are just incarcinating foreigners as animals in Gutatinmo Bay.

Yeah, good thing our wonderful government would never imprison its own citizens without charge or trial.

-Eric

Re:deja vu

[elrous0]

Remember though, these were men that were actively seeking to kill Americans

And how, exactly, do you know that? Did you know that hundreds of "detainees" have already been released from Gitmo, after it was discovered that they were innocent (including quite a few innocents who were turned in by crooked Afghanis for lucrative bounties and one guy whose only crime was to be a cook for the Taliban government).

Would you have shot them in the head before they were found innocent?

Do yourself a favor, and do some reading before you go shooting your fucking mouth off.

-Eric

Re:deja vu

[Anonymous Coward]

no, they're a bunch of fucking islamofacist terrorists who'd just as soon blow themselves up to kill a few of us as look at us. they're scum, and we're wasting untold dollars keeping them alive, fed, making sure they have their little korans and that they're handled properly so we "infidels" don't pollute them.

perhaps if you would quit getting your up to the minute news on how the awful USA is torturing detainees from indymedia, and maybe read a relevant and accepted news outlet, you'd get it. the book you linked has reviews which compare its credibility to The Onion and say that it's simplistic and easy to read (read: good for simpletons). i'm sure you consider michael moore's books to be definitive, unrefuted modern day classics, too.

Re:deja vu

[Stonent1]

Alright! Truth=troll! Nice!

hacker/cracker semantics?

[sl4shd0rk]

The two terminologies have become obscured through apathy, ignorance and cluelessness, I'm afraid. If mitnick can't make the distinction, there's no way anyone else with lesser technical merit (the press) will.

"I get hired to hack into computers now and sometimes it's actually easier than it was years ago. "

"Compared to the time you were an illegal hacker, and the contemporary landscape, how easy is it to hack a computer?"

"..target to visit a Web site, which exploits a technical flaw and allows the hacker to take over the computer."

Re:hacker/cracker semantics?

[michaelbuddy]

I was also kind of annoyed by that, because I had thought he would jump on that language. I think that he has probably tired of making the distinction for people. And really you can't force a new word onto the populous, because you think it isn't descriptive or correct. Word's evolve through the cultural experience that you just don't have control over, even when they are simply not descriptive. Do you think Hormel Foods is going around giving interview about how they want to change that everyone uses the word SPAM, from it's use to describe unsolicited emails. Sorry hormel, monty python and culture is stronger than your corporate brand.

Also, from the CNN Mitnick photo, and comparing it to the Mitnick I saw in the interview on The Broken, Mitnick is obviously taking steps to become more studly corporate. He's lost weight, got some stylish glasses, trimmed the mullet. With this new persona, he maintains cool corporate Mitnick so he can't get all nuts with his interviewer by saying things like "They're Crackers Cindy for God's sake!!, the bad hackers are called crackers! Forget your interivew, I'm leaving you dumb bitch!"

Re:hacker/cracker semantics?

[TrappedByMyself]

Maybe there just isn't a distinction.

If the most famous 'cracker' doesn't even use the term, then it's pretty safe to say the hacker/cracker distinction is only in the minds of an unsuccessful subculture trying to push the terms.

"Deconstructing" his exploits? Hardly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Deconstructive analysis is the identification of binary opposition in order to determine composition. This is just a feature article, hardly deconstruction. Deconstruction is not simply in-depth discussion (and this article harldy that, either). Please learn your terms, ScuttleMonkey.

Milhouse all grown up

[digitaldc]

CNN: Do you miss being on the run? (stupid question CNN!)

MITNICK: No, no, I don't miss it all. I like my life now. I made some really stupid mistakes in the past as a younger man that I regret. I'm lucky that I've been given a second chance and that I could use these skills to help the community.

But now that I've turned over a new leaf and people are interested in my skill-set, now the notoriety of my name helps me in my business.

Make up your mind, are you helping the community or are you helping your own business? :)

Re:Milhouse all grown up

[MagicBox]

The guy is doing both by using his skills.

Re:Milhouse all grown up

[bladesjester]

It is possible to do both. An easy example for most slashdotters would be open source authors who get paid to write oss by companies like Redhat and IBM.

old modem commands

[Bob-o-Matic!]

My dad had a TI-994A. Here we go!

ATDP#######
(LINE IS BUSY)
+++
A/
(LINE IS BUSY)
+++
A/
(LINE IS BUSY)
+++
A/
(LINE IS BUSY)
+++
A/
(LINE IS BUSY) ...

So many lost hours waiting to connect to the local bbs... I should have learned to play basketball.

Social engineering

[ChrisF79]

My favorite part of the interview is the discussion on social engineering. Funny how we invest all of this money into improved security, hardware, etc, etc, etc and then people can make a phone call and get passwords over the net. Years ago when I was in high school, we had a class project to make a little website on our internal server at school. A friend of mine and myself ended up getting two different hosting accounts at different ISP's and moving our little projects online for the rest of the world. Long story short, he tells me one day on the phone, "I can hack your site." I challenged him to do so and 5 minutes later all the text on the index was changed. All he did was call the ISP and tell them he had forgotten his password, gave my name and address (all common knowledge) and they gave him my password over the phone. The entire call took about 30 seconds. This was years ago and I'm sure quite a bit has changed with ISP's, but it just goes to show how dangerous a naive employee and a telephone can be.

Re:Social engineering

[CmdrGravy]

I used to work on a helpdesk which handled calls from around 20 or so major international companies and anyone who had the name of someone at one of those companies could pretty much phone up and get a name and password off us. The chances are they could also get us to talk them through dialling into the network as well if they were a little rusty on the technical side of hacking.

The one time I did refuse to reset someones password ( because he admitted he wasn't the person the account belonged to, not immediatley mind you, and he wasn't calling from any of the companies offices ) ended up in no end of trouble and moaning that I had annoyed the customer.

I'm sure you could phone pretty much any IT helpdesk at 3 in the morning and get them to do whatever you wanted them to.

Re:Social engineering

[DarKry]

Ok. maybe social engineering is an issue but it is hardly of interest to those of us who actually care about the technical side of security. Kevin's fascination with calling helpdesks make me seriously doubt that he has the technical know how needed to run a competitive security consulting firm. It seems more likely to me that he got so behind on the technical end of things during his time in jail that he is now trying his little butt off to make "social engineering" synonymous with scary hackers so that he can advance his own career without having to relearn what been going on technically while he was out of the game.

Cell 'mates'

[EwokMolester]

I was treated as "Osama bin Mitnick."

Luckly the article only leaves us to guess how the white collar was treated in prison.

Ouch! You know thats going to sting!

rights? hahahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

rights? (your in america i assume?)
you think you have any rights left?
the patriot act... the supreme court ruling on imenent domain... just to name a few...
we have no rights anymore.

to get any semblance of freedom in this country we need to reverse (in order of importance):

U.S. H.R. 3162, S. 1510, Public Law 107-56 (if you want to use the propoganda version: The Patriot Act)
Susette Kelo, et al. v. City of New London, et al. (technicaly still pending, but lets not kid ourselfs)
United States Supreme Court decision 317 U.S. 111 (1942) Wickard v. Filburn

Im sure there are many more laws on the books that need to come down. Many im told rely on the
Wickard v. Filburn ruling as their basis.

man

[Anonymous Coward]

what a punk ass lil bitch this guy's become. The younger mitnick woulda fucked this guy up.

The only winning move is not to play

[Anonymous Coward]

did he offer them to play a game of chess ?

I hope he is sincere

[Anonymous Coward]

and that he has grown up. Being a liar and a thief is wrong. Perhaps he has learned that. It is sad that so many thinking hacking is "cool." People that hack, steal music, load their friend's game with the latest version of Warcraft, Office, or anything else is stealing and they ought to be ashamed...and prosecuted.

Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot is soo slow, I saw this article 4 days ago.

Joint Mumia / Mitnick thriller due next year.

[RonaldReagan]

Spielberg to produce "Mumia and Mitnick: Curse of the Paparazzi."

Why do people get so worked up over Mitnick

[falconwolf]

As far as I'm concerned some of what Kevin did he should of and was made to pay for. My problem wasn't that it was how the government handled it, as far as I'm concerned it was unconstitutional holding him in solitary confinement without allowing representation or charges for years.

You're right, he wasn't anywhere near as likeable or admirable as the Woz. For years I wanted to be like him in creating the Apple. I was in high school when micro/homebrew computers were coming out and I'd go down to Rad Shack and play around with the Trash, er TRS 80. That was when I decided I wanted to major in Computer Engineering. It was a tuff choice as I also wanted to major in Marine Biology or Oceanography, the other person I wanted to be like was Jacques-Yves Cousteau.

Falcon

To get the facts straight, watch the documentary

[kozmico]

The documentary about Kevin Mitnick, made by 2600: Freedom Downtime: http://freedomdowntime.com/ Really good documentary, if you see the DVD version, it has many hours of interviews with Kevin Mitnick. This documentary won the New York Film Festival, best documentary award.

are they guilty?

[falconwolf]

Remember though, these were men that were actively seeking to kill Americans so I have little sympathy for their plight

And I suppose you have positive proof they are guilty, say maybe videos of them conmitting crimes? If so why don't you share that with the military and put them on trial then? Fact is is many were only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong tyme.

Falcon

Re: how about ROBIN HOOD?

[s388]

ya know, the prince of thieves?

a very foolish oversight. i scoff.

Caught this in meta-moderation...

[hackwrench]

and meta-moderation isn't bound by the same rules as moderation. I'm modding down the insightful rating as unfair. It wouldn't rate an insightful rating even if it was particularly useful, but it isn't even that, and here's why:
When I complete the thought it goes like this:
I could care less, but it would be hard, real hard, and you aren't making it any easier.

Re:Caught this in meta-moderation...

[stud9920]

I could care less, but it would be hard, real hard, and you aren't making it any easier.

Well then you DO care a little, sucker, which undermines the original expression, stating one DOES NOT care. OTOH "I could not care less" is as mathematically close to a flat care-o-meter as 0.9999999... equals one. It actually quite litterally mean lim(this point) care(x) = 0.