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MS To Launch Internet Versions of Office And Windows

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the they're-everywhere-they're-everywhere dept.

daria42 writes "In a press conference this morning, Bill Gates said Microsoft plans to launch Internet-based complements to its core products, dubbed 'Windows Live' and 'Office Live'. Windows Live is a set of Internet-based personal services, such as e-mail, blogging and instant messaging. It will be primarily supported by advertising and be separate from the operating system itself. Office Live will come in both ad-based and subscription versions that augment MS' Office suite. The programs won't replace the paid software but instead seem aimed at diminishing Google's ad revenue. Windows Live already appears to have 'gone live' in a preview format on the web."

94 of 530 comments (clear)

  1. That can't be Microsoft by Psionicist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Firefox Users
    Firefox support is coming soon. Please be patient :-)

    . Did I read that right? MS supporting Firefox?

    Hmm. Cool.

    1. Re:That can't be Microsoft by Juanvaldes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As long as they hurt google they will do almost anything. Besides, they can break compatibility later.

    2. Re:That can't be Microsoft by inburito · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not only that, but top feed is slashdot. This is surreal!

    3. Re:That can't be Microsoft by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Funny

      Gee, when I ran it with Safari, I didn't get any message at all. I guess it's not coming...

    4. Re:That can't be Microsoft by gregbains · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seems to be working OK in Firefox at the moment, and I don't know about you, but this beats Google IG in my opinion!

      Wow, did I just say that

    5. Re:That can't be Microsoft by jhoffoss · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The hell...

      Are we looking at some new, cuddly Microsoft? A fracking emoticon?

      Weird. Let's just hope this doesn't turn out to be "we'll support you...by helping you go back and open this webpage with IE."

      --
      Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
    6. Re:That can't be Microsoft by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Informative

      don't know about you, but this beats Google IG in my opinion!

      Really? I personally don't see how. Colors are a bit easier on the eyes, but that's it. There's no better features.

    7. Re:That can't be Microsoft by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Funny

      It works! Really! All you need is the flash plugin, and even FireFox can run Microsoft Windows Live!

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    8. Re:That can't be Microsoft by gregbains · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Slashdot built in! Also it seems to take better use of my screen space, more customisation is possible, it has MY weather - not weather from 50 miles away from me, I use Hotmail more than Gmail (due to pain of updating), and actually easier and nicer to use, IMO

    9. Re:That can't be Microsoft by dindi · · Score: 4, Funny

      actually I tried it with firefox and it seems to be working just fine...

      actually I just tried IE : A runtime Error has occured. Do you wish to Debug?

      Line:2
      Error: 'fun' is undefined :)

      HAHAHHHHAHAHA

    10. Re:That can't be Microsoft by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Despite what you and almost every other /.er would love to think, MS isn't inherenty bad. They have just made more mistakes than others, but that can change. Did you ever stop to think that they might just want to do something right? That they might want to experiment with new technologies? That this is actually pretty cool? No? Didn't think so.

      --
      I am Spartacus
    11. Re:That can't be Microsoft by Baricom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft has made so many mistakes at the past, that they've lost the trust of customers. To regain that trust, they need to make a number of correct decisions in a row. Keep in mind that even more people distrust Microsoft than complain about the quality of their software, so even if they stop making "mistakes," they still need to work to re-gain customer goodwill.

    12. Re:That can't be Microsoft by MinutiaeMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, I checked the page with OmniWeb, and I got the same thing. Not that I'd ever, ever use the product, but I still want to know what they're doing... Even more amusing to me is the fact that they went to the trouble of adding an XHTML DOCTYPE, but it fails validation miserably.

      Somehow, I have a feeling that Office Live might turn out to be more useful (and practical) than Windows Live. I mean, isn't the whole point of the World Wide Web that your computer's operating system doesn't matter? What features of Windows (other than the crashing, the viruses, the spyware, the buffer overflows...) would be useful via a Web browser instead of the actual operating system? And if there are useful features, wouldn't it make more sense to make these new "Live" services completely platform-independent, in order to lure back those who've been using alternative platforms?

      Office Live, on the other hand, could definitely be useful, assuming it's done right. It would make it easier (and possibly cheaper, though that would really depend on caveats below) for people on non-Microsoft systems to have access to Office's features and file formats, making cross-platform document sharing easier for all platforms, not just Windows and Macintosh. (Seeing how Office for Mac OS X is one of Microsoft's biggest cash cows right now...)

      However, I see a couple of problems with this whole "Live" concept, as Microsoft is approaching it:

      (1) Based on my attempted preview of the pages, the services seem to be Windows-only, at least for now. Why the hell should anyone already using Windows pay for an additional "Windows Live" service? Likewise for Office. Additionally, unless they intend to change the purpose and capabilities of Windows, I'm starting to realize that a Web-based operating system seems like a complete oxymoron, and probably a solution in search of a problem.

      (2) Unlike Google, which would use their rumored OO.o-based service as a means towards getting advertising revenue, Microsoft is almost certainly approaching these products from the perspective of simply edging out competitors and maintaining their stranglehold on the OS and productivity suite markets, and also to boost their revenues by suckering people into subscription-based services. This means that once again, they're probably going to be working on pushing out a product that's "just good enough" (c.f. Internet Explorer) in order to rake in the cash and lock people into their own proprietary system.

      (3) Ownership of data. With the hypothetical Google service and OO.o's use of the OpenDocument standard, the very nature of open source and open standards makes it crystal clear that the user owns the documents that would be created/edited/shared/published via the service. Naturally, by contrast, Microsoft will be seeking to limit the exporting functions, ensuring that once you create a document with their service, you'll have to send them perpetual payments in order to maintain access to that document -- i.e. they own your document.

      "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny!"

    13. Re:That can't be Microsoft by patternjuggler · · Score: 5, Funny

      MS isn't inherenty bad. They have just made more mistakes than others, but that can change. Did you ever stop to think that they might just want to do something right?

      People who stay in abusive relationships all sound exactly alike...

    14. Re:That can't be Microsoft by Hosiah · · Score: 2, Insightful
      MS isn't inherenty bad

      Naw, hell no! That's why Microsoft has to be defended every ten minutes by one of you Whack-moles poking your head out of the hole to chatter Microsoft-isn't-really-evil-and-get-that-Bill-Gate s-as-Borg-icon-outta-here-already and then disappear one hair's breadth ahead of the hammers. The day I have to go around trying to bash it into people's heads that Linux, Unix, BSD, Macintosh, OS X, BeOS, Novell, and Sun Microsystems don't deserve their Evil Overlord reputations, then we'll be even.

      Know what quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and goes steady with ducks? Ducks!

    15. Re:That can't be Microsoft by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Microsoft has made so many mistakes at the past, that they've lost the trust of customers.

      Microsoft Revenues Grow 6 Percent, Profit Soars to $3.1 Billion Back-to-school sales were good. Server sales are strong. Windows MCE looks to be a big winner.

    16. Re:That can't be Microsoft by ErikTheRed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      MS isn't inherenty bad. They have just made more mistakes than others, but that can change. Did you ever stop to think that they might just want to do something right?

      People who stay in abusive relationships all sound exactly alike...
      I think you mean this jokingly and are being moderated as such, but I've known people in abusive relationships and you are dead on.
      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    17. Re:That can't be Microsoft by killjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "That's right, you heard me. I said, on /., that I think Windows should peacefully and cooperatively coexist wit Linux/OS X/whatever. Proprietary alongside open as well. There is no absolute right here, onlyimprovement."

      IF that's what you really want then MS is your enemy. They don't want the same thing that you do. In fact they are spending millions of dollars trying to make sure you don't get what you want. They are bribing politicians to make sure you don't get what you want. They are rigging their products to make sure you don't get what you want. They are hiring astro-turfers and so called journalists to make sure you don't get what you want.

      If you really want that then you should spend your time fighting MS not defending them. MS thinks people like you are communists.

      --
      evil is as evil does
  2. Bill Gates was quoted as saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the reason news of Goo.... Goooo... Ggggg... I can't say the name... but it has nothing to do with them and their work with Open Office.

    1. Re:Bill Gates was quoted as saying by someonewhois · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, it must be related to Google's announcement regarding Open Office. I mean, Microsoft can develop and release Windows Live and Office Live in the matter of 48 hours. Yeah, they're amazing alright.

  3. Beta is the new buzzword... by mister_llah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ahh, it seems Google's betas have given the name buzzword status...

    I remember the good old days when Microsoft's "beta" products were full versions... ahhhh...

    Good to see Google's eminent technological takeover is at least causing Microsoft to be a little more honest :)

    --
    MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
    http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
  4. Go for it, Microsoft... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why would anyone PAY for something they can't have? And what happens to those Word docs when your subscription runs out? Read only and no copy/paste?

    All I can say is "Microsoft, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE 'bet the farm' on this".

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:Go for it, Microsoft... by jm92956n · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Sun called: they want their dumb terminals idea back.

      The market has repeatedly shown that there is no interest in the concept of remote software or slimmed down computers. People really do like their personal computers. I had thought Microsoft understood this well, though it looks as if I've now been proven wrong. Are customers asking for this?

      --
      An effective signature identifies a particular user amongst a base of thousands.
    2. Re:Go for it, Microsoft... by Eryq · · Score: 3, Funny
      Why would anyone PAY for something they can't have?

      ...must... not... make... hooker... joke...

      --
      I'm a bloodsucking fiend! Look at my outfit!
    3. Re:Go for it, Microsoft... by Lucractius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the "market" just doesnt realise they like it.

      HTML & server side scripting are another form of "dumb terminal",
      Hands up if you use a remote X session to a server for something, ditto VNC or NX

      AND suns sunray thin client workstations are works of F***ing art damn it, they can pull more central server based tricks with those than any company buying them could ever want id. there are people that want these kinds of machines because it IS cheaper for them. If you are working on a number of platforms simultaneously with a number of groups/projects, its simpler to deal with one central server (real or virtual) for each reasonably sized team and platform they need and give them all their necessary enviroments. When the projects over theres only one machine to wipe and reinstall, not 10 or 20. They arent for everyone but they arent the rejected has beens you make them out to be.

      Above all. the remote software pardigim is becoming more useful to the end users only now, while there has always been a set of proffessionals and technical types making use of it in various forms. Its only now with the explosion of the (god i hate using this term like this) Web 2.0 revoloution, that they have become aware that they dont have to be stuck on their computer all the time. They dont want to be. they want to be able to show someoen their stuff when theyre vistiting a freinds place, they want to be able to do stuff at work, or on vacation they did at home without the hassle. They want "their stuff" to be more available to them than ever. MS is tapping this in a big way now.

      I just hope it kicks google to counter it, and revamp their now becoming stale personalised google.com/ig page design.

      Minimalism like google is only one way to get a great UI,
      and MS seem to have gotten a good one to counter it subtly.

      overall, im pissed im hearing this from MS, come on google & sun, i cant stand this.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
  5. Ripping off Google by Ridgelift · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Windows Live is a painfully bad rip off of Google's Personal Homepage. It all just Microsoft up to their old tricks: copy someone elses idea then try to extend it.

    This time, however, the deck is stacked against them. Developers are leaving Microsoft and going to Google in hopes to make millions like early Microsoft employees did. Also Microsoft is stuck using their own software as a development platform which is not as flexible as Google or even Apple to make changes. Google can simply outcode Microsoft in the web arena.

    Should be a bloodbath.

    --
    Ruby on Rails Screencast
    1. Re:Ripping off Google by log2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It doesn't seem to actually do much of the stuff that windows does as an OS. I don't see how they can call it "Windows Live".

      I expect this to be a flop.

      --
      Can your karma go above being Excellent?
    2. Re:Ripping off Google by Otter · · Score: 5, Informative
      Windows Live is a painfully bad rip off of Google's Personal Homepage. It all just Microsoft up to their old tricks: copy someone elses idea then try to extend it.

      That's what used to be known as a "portal". About 10 years ago, anyone who could slap together a page like that could instantly IPO for a billion dollars. It's hardly something Google invented.

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    3. Re:Ripping off Google by Chokolad · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google personal homepage showed up waaay after Microsoft experiments in this kind of homepage under http://start.com./ Talk about revisionist history...

    4. Re:Ripping off Google by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Windows Live is a painfully bad rip off of Google's Personal Homepage [google.com].

      I hope you're kidding. It seems, more and more, that there are the deluded who believe that Google, along with Apple, are responsible for everything.

      This is nothing more than a rehash of portals, such that we saw in the late 90s. Excite was one of the biggest and most configurable portals, and of course many of us configured it, setting up our stocks and our weather, and then never used it again.

      Developers are leaving Microsoft and going to Google in hopes to make millions like early Microsoft employees did.

      It's a bit late for that at Google now: It's too big of a company for that get-rich-quick type nonsense. However it is true that a lot of ex-Microsofters have left to join small startups, or to create one themselves. This is especially true too now that Microsoft is becoming just like every other traditional "where careers go to die" organization.

      Also Microsoft is stuck using their own software as a development platform

      Nonsense. Microsoft's development platform is extraordinarily powerful, and it certainly isn't a detriment that they use it.

      The problem that Microsoft's internet ventures have, and it's always been this way, is that they do the absolute minimum amount possible to ensure that they aren't eviscerated, but no more. If you remember, the IE team smoked Netscape, and then they were promptly disbanded. Why? Because that team and group represented a threat to the Microsoft cash cows - Office and Windows. These "web versions" of Office and Windows are almost laughable - if anything they'll complement, and most certainly they won't replace until Microsoft is on its deathbed and the revenue has completely dried up.

    5. Re:Ripping off Google by lakin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I dont really feel like this is directly competing with anything google has atm. The Google personalized portal thing is (as many people have already said) basically the same as start.com, both of which bring your internet to one page - frequent sites, news, mail etc. This new windows live seems more like its going to bring together your local pc and your internet life. Granted, it doesnt do much of this at the moment, but the ideas page mentions pc files. Make it easy enough to use, and slap an icon on the windows start menu they could easily make this the way people do basically anything with their pc. (Want to work on a word document? Fire up the Windows Live page!)

      Given how limited it is at the moment though, google still has enough chance to make up something that similarly makes you think Google whenever you have a task/problem.

      Personally though, i dont really care who wins, aslong as its not just one company. Whatever google (and yahoo and everyone else) comes up with doesnt need to be a Microsoft killer, it just needs to be something Microsoft cant kill. Otherwise in ten years, microsoft will be going bust and we will all be complaining google has a monopoly over our internet browser office suites with few companies able to use an alternative because of the big discounts google is giving them and the new propriety format meaning it doesnt always look the same. Still, we can always hope one state will demand all departments use Suns version because it uses an open format. And of course, microsoft will start to turn around when they release a new portable device (with a web store) thats more expensive than the current unpopular ones, but it looks soo good... And its ok that they build a monopoly on this device, because they are the good guys and google is the evil empire.

      --
      Paul
    6. Re:Ripping off Google by Osty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My sentiments exactly except I don't think they even tried to extend it. It's a somewhat anemic version of the Google Personal Homepage with nary a hope of ever catching up. I am confounded by the "Windows Live" aspect, but in fairness it is in Beta. Perhaps an Internet based bootable OS is right around the corner. From Microsoft I mean. BWAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!

      Have you even tried using Live.com? Sure, it's superficially like Google's personalized home page, but it does more than that. First off, Live.com is from the Start.com project, which has been around longer than Google's personal page (as others have already pointed out), and thus Google is copying Microsoft. BWAHAHAHA. Ahem. Second, Live.com is more "slick", for lack of a better word. You can change the number of columns (want 2 columns instead of 3? only 1 long column?), and the interface just feels "smoother" than Google's (not sure if it's the colors, fonts, icons, or what, and I'll agree that this is really personal preference).

      Third, and probably most importantly, Live.com is much more customizable than Google's page. Sure, you can add or remove certain canned items or create a new "section" from a search or a feed on Google's page. You can do that on Live.com as well. However, you can also write your own "gadgets" to add on to the page that are not just RSS feeds. I'm sure Google has the knowledge and talent to be able to do something like that, but you can't deny that Live.com does things Google Personal doesn't.

      As for the name "Windows Live", the Slashdot article title is just completely stupid. This is not an "Internet Version of Windows", but a companion. The "Live" naming obviously comes from Xbox Live, which is not an "Internet Version of Xbox" but a companion service that allows you to communicate and interact in new and interesting ways with your Xbox ("new" and "interesting" as applied to Xbox, as online gaming, voice chat, and friends lists have all obviously been done elsewhere before Xbox Live). "Windows Live" is obviously aiming at that same idea. Whether they get there or not is still yet to be seen, but at least they're trying. That the beginning looks like stuff we've already seen (though to be fair, we did see it from Microsoft before Google) isn't the point. Go to Windows Live Ideas and look at some of the stuff that's coming. Live Mail is just parity, but Windows Live Safety Center looks pretty cool, as does Windows Live Favorites (okay, so it only imports from IE and not Firefox, but a) it is Beta, and b) it is still Microsoft ...). And it sounds like this is just the beginning. Maybe the whole Windows Live thing will fizzle out with nothing more than a neat portal and a modern web mail client, but it could also turn into something really cool.

  6. I was more impressed... by ColGraff · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have to say, I was more impressed with "Windows Live" when it was called the Google Personalized Homepage.

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
    1. Re:I was more impressed... by dejamatt · · Score: 2

      I have to say, I was more impressed with Google personal homepage when it was called start.com.

    2. Re:I was more impressed... by badriram · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mean like Google Personalized Homepage was like start.com

  7. Impressive by JPyun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If MS keeps developing awesome stuff like this, then go Bill. Weee.

    Plus I get a warm and fuzzy feeling using "Windows Live" from Linux.

  8. Desperate times... by mister_llah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Google's pushing Microsoft into a corner... they've got a distinct edge in innovation...

    I definately smell a hint of doom on Microsoft, though... but in business, as good as it seems now... we'll just be trading one tyrant for another... call it FUD, but I guess we'll all see in time :)

    --
    MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
    http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
    1. Re:Desperate times... by arhines · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure what brought you to that conclusion...

      My reaction, avid OSS user that I am, was basically "Wow. This is actually pretty cool - they've surprised me." I needn't point out that google has said publicly that they have no plans to in any way turn OO.org into a web-based product, so if anyone has an edge here it is clearly the people who just released a beta of their web-based office suite...

    2. Re:Desperate times... by Lally+Singh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A hint? Look at their stock history. No real growth in *years*.

      Also, isn't this MS leveraging their existing monopoly to gain an edge in a new market? Anti-competitive?

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    3. Re:Desperate times... by NitsujTPU · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How exactly is Google a tyrant?

      All that this says is, "All of these years, the reason that I've hated MS is because they were successful. All of that bitching and moaning was because MS made money. I have never had anything objective to say about Microsoft. It's all been lies."

      Seriosuly. What did Google do? All that anyone has accused them of is 1) Stealing all of the talent in software (damn, people want to work there, sounds evil) and 2) Raising the prices of software engineers (shit, and now I make more money).

      News flash, the only people who complain about Google are the evil corporate masters that you're also supposedly railing against. Really. If their company was all that good, people would want to work their anyway. Amazon.com is not having any problems hiring talented people. Trust me. I've met some of their people.

      What you're saying is that nobody can succeed and not be evil. I disbelieve that. I believe that honest people can make an honest living and still, at the end of the day, be honest. Call me old fashioned like that, but believe it or not, one day I'd like to be successful too. Also, I'd appreciate it if you don't call me a tyrant when I am.

    4. Re:Desperate times... by rwyoder · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Google's pushing Microsoft into a corner... they've got a distinct edge in innovation...
      So you are saying a company that actually innovates has an edge over one that just repeats the word a lot? ;-)
    5. Re:Desperate times... by gnuLNX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Honest living...billionaire...hones living...biolionaire....hum...something seems funny to me.

      As an aside not I am a capitalist and I support the work that google is doing...but lets get real on the honest living....no one making a billion dollars while people are starving is making an honest living. If you believe otherwise you should have a long hard look at yourself tommorrow in the Mirror.

      Cheers

      --
      what?
    6. Re:Desperate times... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As an aside not I am a capitalist and I support the work that google is doing...but lets get real on the honest living....no one making a billion dollars while people are starving is making an honest living. If you believe otherwise you should have a long hard look at yourself tommorrow in the Mirror.

      And if you think that throwing money at a problem solves it, you're a fool.

    7. Re:Desperate times... by MikeFM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It really depends on what the problem is and where you throw the money and how much money you throw. Try solving problems without throwing money, or some sort of economic resource, at it. Not many that can be done for free. Even your investment in time translates to throwing money at the problem.

      Intelligence is how you fix problems. Money is the tool that lets you leverage that intelligence to fix problems. Just thinking wisely at the problem rarely works.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  9. Hope it don't use ajax or java script by codepunk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hope they don't plan on using ajax or java script to do it. The IE java script interpreter is so damn slow it is like watching paint dry. I just tried to build a large scale app using a java script interface kit and failed. It failed not because the program was bad, as a matter of fact it was damn snappy in firefox. Then I did the unthinkable and loaded it up in IE, slow as mud to the point of being totally unusable. The next person that tells me how great IE is, I am going to punch in the teeth.

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:Hope it don't use ajax or java script by jwjcmw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have been wondering whether all of these new Ajax apps are going to be workable on the client. Especially when you start having multiple applications open at once. I was checking out various calendar apps earlier today (kiko.com, planzo.com and others). My machine was seeming pretty sluggish...firefox was taking up over 200MB of memory and constantly using between 25-50% of my cpu...and none of the windows seemed to be doing anything.

  10. That sound you hear... by pedantic+bore · · Score: 5, Funny
    ... is your local broadband company throwing a party.

    Unless they can really trim the fat, this will be the biggest motivation for broadband since pr0n.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
  11. I saw some versions of this when I worked there by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I saw some HTML + webified versions of Office when I worked there. Probably around 2000. They cancelled it. I wish I could remember more about it.

    1. Re:I saw some versions of this when I worked there by Osty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I saw some HTML + webified versions of Office when I worked there. Probably around 2000. They cancelled it. I wish I could remember more about it.

      Most likely you're thinking about NetDocs, which, though it never shipped as a single product, did actually contribute many pieces to Office (InfoPath in particular), MSN (parts of their billing and support system, Messenger, pieces of MSN Explorer), and other Microsoft products that did ship. Alternatively, you might have seen pieces of Hailstorm, which was later named ".NET My Services" before being killed. Again, much of Hailstorm's knowledge made its way into .NET (Hailstorm was all about Web Services right when the whole .NET thing was starting up, and it's no coincidence that .NET has very robust support for SOAP-based web services).

      This is not all that different from what other companies do, with the exception of Microsoft publicizing projects that are eventually killed or integrated into something else. This is not even unusual for Microsoft. For example, where do you think the Office Assistant (Microsoft Agent) stuff came from? Microsoft Bob (especially the dog and cat). While it was patronizing and simplistic, it was also way ahead of its time -- task-based interface, scaleable vector graphics, "interactive" help (say what you will about Clippy and the Office Assistant crap, but many people liked them and you can't really argue with the cuteness factor), etc. This is how companies grow and innovate. What Microsoft learned from Hailstorm surely has a direct effect on Windows Live, just as what they learned from NetDocs affected Office and what they learned from Bob affected Windows and Office. For example, they've learned to use open betas to their advantage, and to incubate fresh ideas with little intervention (Start.com, the origin of Live.com and arguably the cornerstone to the whole project, was developed, shipped, and supported by a team of only two or three developers with no management overhead or other BS, and who were allowed to be open about the process through blogging and customer interaction -- they were even allowed to support Firefox!).

      People scoffed at the first couple versions of Internet Explorer, but when Microsoft got fired up they really blew everybody away. Hopefully this time they've learned that follow-through is just as important as shipping, and Windows Live doesn't stagnate the way IE did.

  12. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't by Steven+Reddie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They could have had these products in the works for quite some time, though it seems a safe bet that this is in response to the recent Google rumours. Who cares, though? Reacting to the needs of the market is what smart businesses do. Microsoft seems to be going through a stage of re-inventing themselves somewhat. Becoming leaner and quickly responding to the market is what they need to do to survive. Good on them.

  13. Ha! It's fun to watch ... by Pharaoh_B · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft's knee-jerk reaction to google rumors.

  14. I love marketing-talk by kebes · · Score: 5, Funny

    "This advertising model has emerged as a very important thing," Gates said.

    Translation: "We really missed the boat on that one, and are desperately trying to catch up."

    "The live phenomenon is not just about Microsoft. It's partners, it's competitors...the whole space is being transformed."

    Translation: "I woke up one day and suddenly there was this technology company making alot of money... and to my surprise it wasn't Microsoft! I knew I had to take over that tech sector ASAP so I asked someone what all this 'online' stuff was about."

  15. live.com domain by Karamchand · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I really wonder how much they had to pay for live.com. According to whois the domain was just updated on Oct 31.

  16. You know what this means? by thepotoo · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft is getting really desperate. They are downright paranoid about us slashdotters, as well they should be. Firefox support (I hope soon) probably means Linux support (interesting... an alternative to WINE, or just useless?) means that they are really panicy about the google situation.

    Also, is it just me, or does firefox do the same thing IE does there? Tried both, and it looks the same, with just the little Firefox users... banner at the top.

    --
    Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
    1. Re:You know what this means? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember when Microsoft was going to do this last time? Supposedly Office was going to be sold to users on an ASP (as in Application Service Provider) basis. You'd pay your monthly fee and you'd get to keep running your software. The market didn't care so much for this extortion^W business plan, and Microsoft decided to move to their "forced upgrade" cycles.

      BTW, if anyone is interested, you're not missing anything on live.com. I just went there in IE and it immediately tried to install a bunch of spyware crapola. I was not amused. On the bright side, there's a category for Slashdot!

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    2. Re:You know what this means? by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Microsoft is getting really desperate."

      Is that why they made more income in Q2-2005 than they have ever made before?

      "They are downright paranoid about us slashdotters, as well they should be."

      No, they aren't. Slashdot isn't even 0.1% of their userbase. Firefox, on the other hand, represents 8-10% of web users - a significant enough potion that it's only logical to support them.

    3. Re:You know what this means? by patdabiker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is interesting to note that opening in Safari gives nothing but a search bar; while Firefox you get plenty of content.

  17. Riding the Bear by axonal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft is in the position IBM was years ago and they are just beginning to realize the effect of Google and it seems a bit too late now... ...a lot of Microsoft's current offerings aren't all that appealing or innovative compared to Googles and other companies.

  18. the point of windows live is... by cryptoz · · Score: 2, Informative

    what, exactly? since you seem to have to have the real windows to use it, what's the point of using a web based version of an operating system which you're already using?

    I'm posting this in the context that live.com is COMPLETELY broken in opera and mostly broken in firefox on my linux machine, which is all I have access to right now.

    worst. service. ever.

  19. Bad Move? by B4L1STA · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This seems like it could be the beginning of everything moving to a more web-oriented computer experience. Who needs Windows when you can use Office, MSN, etc. FROM FIREFOX (under Linux). Windows could be left for professionals who need a robust platform to run "real" applications for things like video/image editing, CAD design, etc. Everyday users could do the most basic computer tasks in the same way under Linux as under Windows... I guess even if this kills Windows, Microsoft has a stake in it either way now...

  20. Windows Live by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 2, Funny

    So how soon before we can have a full Windows operating system "live", complete with BSODs and malware?

  21. difinetly M$$.. by xTantrum · · Score: 4, Interesting

    live.com wow, wish i was the one who owned that name. Imagine how much money they payed for it.

    --
    $action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
    1. Re:difinetly M$$.. by imroy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Live555 use to have live.com. They make various bits of streaming media software. They have a library that's used in compiling MPlayer with stream playing support. I wondered why they changed. I thought it was some silly bit of corporate branding, but I guess MS made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

  22. Like a JUNKIE by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 3, Informative
    Are customers asking for this?

    No. And, I don't think, as I'm sure will be said here, that it has anything at all to do with Google. It has to do with Microsoft wanting to figure out a way to develop an bottomless income stream. For example, many people where quite happy with Windows 95 untill they where forced to upgrade. Many people saw no particular reason to migrate from Windows 2000, untill they where forced. Many companies have built very expensive internal server applications around NT and Windows 2000 Server, but soon, they will be forced to upgrade. Over many of these platforms, people have stuck with Office 95 or Office 2000, because they sill functioned on the platforms and did what the users needed, not reason to upgrade. Microsoft sees revenue here, basically locking users into forced upgrades because once you buy into Subscription Office, you have to keep paying like a junkie if you want to access your documents.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  23. Re:They just don't get it. by Thu25245 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How long did it take Google to build a Firefox version of their toolbar?

    How long will it take until a Linux or Mac version of Google Earth comes out? Google Desktop Search?

    Almost 90% of the market uses both Windows and IE. It should come as no surprise that they're the first priority. That Microsoft intends to support Firefox at all is a step forward.

  24. Not even paying for 1st choice! by billybob2001 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It was their 2nd choice...

    http://evil.com/ was already taken, so they thought laterally!

    Make that 3rd, http://vile.com/ is taken too...

  25. Indeed... by mister_llah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google themselves don't have any plans because they don't have an office suite... but they just invested a ton of money into the open source community... ... and if Microsoft's "live" beta does well... you'll see clones... open source clones, and if it is good enough, Google might do it... (but who knows, "copycatting" doesn't seem to be their style just yet, they've got a lot of creativity left in them)

    ===

    From the POV I think Google is looking from...

    It's a lot easier not to look like a bad guy when you are letting other people do your work for you, I think... Google's got a good edge on that... the open source community is large and just needs money to help it along... it'll edge in on Microsoft's turf while being respectful towards Google for helping it originally.

    They don't need to branch into these areas because they are basically paying other people to possibly do it for them... putting them in a better position to indirectly influence that part of the market...

    It's a good long term strategy... very sneaky :)

    --
    MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
    http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
  26. Holy Crap! by SamSeaborn · · Score: 2, Funny
    Holy Crap! This is slick!

    www.live.com -- the best drag-and-drop web implementation I have ever seen. Everything feels light and slick ... delightful.

    Watch out, Google -- MS is on the move. This is an *awesome* implementation of an interactive web interface.

    Sam

  27. It failed.... Google just won. by davecrusoe · · Score: 2, Funny

    First search result when "Desktop" is searched for in MS "Live": Google Desktop! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?FORM=LIVE&q=des ktop w00t!

  28. What? by Steven+Reddie · · Score: 3, Informative

    Your criticism doesn't make any sense. If a beta is a full product, that's good isn't it? If no showstoppers are found you'd expect it to quickly become a release candidate and then soon after that to be released. That sounds like a pretty good use of the beta cycle to me. So in what way has Microsoft not been honest in their use of the term "beta"?

    1. Re:What? by mister_llah · · Score: 2

      You are missing the point. That may be because I was not clear enough.

      So I will detail my feelings in a story for you.

      Once upon a time there was MS-DOS. It was alright. It got the job done.

      Then there was a program called Windows, let us say, Windows 3.0. It was buggy and problematic.

      Then an upgrade came out to what was, in my opinion, only beta quality software (that was released as a final release) ... and you had to pay for that... and it would upgrade you to a more stable beta quality product... and so on... and so forth.

      Does that make things more clear to you?

      --
      MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
      http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
  29. Preparation for making XBOX Live more versatile? by adlib24 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just read a TIME article about XBOX 360 trying to take over all media in the home. M$ is going to try to win the NextGen console war with XBOX Live. Mark my words these web-apps are just a preparation for making XBox 360 "THE" all-purpose multimedia machine. I mean if XBOX Live lets Mom and Dad do email, surfing, basic word processing (over the web), while letting the kids play video games, watch DVDs, and listen and burn music, why would you ever need a PC? Adlib24 p.s. I don't plan on owning a 360, but if one should...happen...to come my way, I wouldn't complain.

  30. Re:and haven't I had bloody enough... by RobertF · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh my god! You're totally right! Google would never provide a free service like this, that used advertising to make money. And besides, this is just Microsoft ripping off Google's idea. Which was based off of what tons of companies did in the 90's. Google didn't steal that idea, though because they're Google. It amuses me how everyone is quick to bash microsoft for making their own versions of popular products, and even products Google has come up with. Yes, both Microsoft and Google have map systems, mail, search, portals, and now personal home pages. Umm, but isn't this called "competition"?

    --
    And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be bannana-shaped.
  31. Re:No, NO. by rogabean · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm going to bank that they don't hurt Google in the least bit. Google has a customizable portal that I tried using for a while as well. And honestly I ended up back at the original Google page (well truthfully I'm using the suggest version... I love that page).

    When it comes to searching the web... I don't want a portal and I'm going to assume that most people don't care. Portal services I use Yahoo, but I never use Yahoo for searching I use Google. It's simple and clean which is what i want in a search engine.

    Microsoft is likely to hurt Yahoo in the portal arena for me if they can match and surpass what Yahoo currently offers though.

    just my .02 copper though.

    --
    "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
  32. Re:Hoax? by oztiks · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think its real but it is in desperation..

    MS Office makes up a large amount of MS's income with the recent resignation of Offices key executive and just a day after google goes public about contributing actual paid employees into open office it does make you wonder...

    This whole www.live.com thing looks nice but two things i dont get is a) the slashdot feed is there (linux users haven) and i saw the netscape logo there too b) its all beta beta beta, MS has a reputation of releasing stuff with a little more substance.

  33. Whoops by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Funny

    They list "Google News" among the available RSS feeds.

  34. Re:office.live.com by Tuross · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was more than 2 years ago, more like 5 or so. Microsoft put out vapourware press releases about how they were moving from boxing products for sale in stores and instead moving to a subscription model where they host the app and you rent it off them. The reason at the time was that with the popularity of the Internet, *lots* of people were discovering just how bad Microsoft and their products were, and were thinking about subjects like "this really is a buggy, defective product - either fix it or give me my money back". Both of those choices means Microsoft lose money. So instead of selling someone a product which they own, the product is instead rented to them under very strict terms and conditions; we've seen Microsoft EULAs so we know what those terms are like - you can't use it to speak the truth (ie, say how bad Microsoft or their products are), you can't use it to compete with Microsoft in anything, you must sacrifice your firstborn child to the Redmond gods, yadda yadda.

    Since there was such a huge backlash over this idea, they have instead been slowly but surely been edging towards it, sneakily bringing it about anyway. That's what the whole "genuine advantage" thing is about - tracking who is using their stuff so they can bill them via the subscription model once they drop the boxed versions from the shelves and all support. That's why there's this concept of "end-of-life" product with no more support - it's not just about forcing people to buy their same product again, its just getting people used to the idea that instead of a class-action lawsuit for continually defective products, you just upgrade. And if you have to upgrade so often it becomes a pain, maybe its easier to simply subscribe instead rather than buy this stuff you get no support for anyway?

    Your homework is to go find out the other things they have done in the past decade to support their move towards the unaccountable subscription model. It's scary.

    --
    Matt
    1. Read Slashdot
    2. ???
    3. Profit
  35. What bugs me most about this .... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Back in the day when Microsoft were too stubborn/clueless/scared-shitless of thin-client computing, they did everything they could to kill the whole idea of network computing. They would hear nothing about how software would be delivered to lightweight machines over the network.

    When Sun was saying "The Network Is The Computer", Micosoft was busily saying "Network? What Network? There's no network -- Hey, look, Clippy!".

    And, now that they're trotting out what is, oh, what, a 10 or 15 year old idea, they're going to spin this and say they've innovated, and look at what they came up with.

    The simple fact (IMO) is that Microsoft couldn't innovate the shit into a diaper. They rehash ideas other people have done, make incompatible implementations, and bray really loudly about how they're giving the consumer what they want.

    It's only because Google is lining up to completely eat Microsoft's lunch in the area of web-delievered technologies that they're even beginning to look at this market segment. The difference being, Google implements it, releases it (and free SDKs for it), and then moves on to making other stuff. [ Witness an earlier story about a Carmen San Diego-esque game based on Google maps, Google pedometers, and god knows what else I've missed ]

    As has been pointed out by smarter people than I, Google is leaving the actual technology in their wake. Microsoft is leaving press-releases and open-ended promises about what they might deliver in the future.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  36. Re:Anti-Competitive? by dhasenan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Um...no.

    First, there's no online office product yet, and Microsoft hasn't been crushing anything like that.

    Second, live.com is, as everyone else has been saying, another web portal (albeit with some interesting features and probably Windows integration). Nothing prevents anyone else from implementing all the same ideas.

    If you're the first to make something, that makes you a monopoly by default. So should we punish all inventors?

  37. Re:No, NO. by iceanfire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    actually I love their portal. On one side I have the slashdot rss feed (along with a couple more at the bottom) and next to it I have my gmail feed. its very easy and gets me the info FAST, all i doo is press : alt+home when I want to check my mail, search or check out the new feeds. due to my broadband connection it doesn't slow the page loading down, nor is it intrusive.

  38. Not just corporations complain... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Interesting
    News flash, the only people who complain about Google are the evil corporate masters that you're also supposedly railing against.

    I bitch about Google enough as a user, and I suspect I'm not alone. You see, I don't use WinXP. They have a couple of really good apps that I'd love to see ported to open platforms, Picassa and Google Earth being two worth mentioning.

    It's all well and good to say that Google's pro-open source, but when they fail to actually deliver the cool apps to an open platform, what does that say, exactly?

  39. Limited success because of same old goals by bhav2007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a nice move by Microsoft to "kill" Google, and I would bet a lot that this is what Ballmer has been thinking of when he is throwing chairs and swearing to kill Google. It really fits with what they have been saying all this time, and their "war". It will probably be very successful in some areas (All of the guys I know who are "Official Microsoft Partners" are gonna have a fit), but I don't think it will do what they believe it will. The problem is that Microsoft's overall vision is the same as it has always been, despite the obviously huge amount of work somebody has done to convince management to make this project more open (firefox support).

    It is pretty clear that the top brass at Microsoft have a very specific vision about their software. I think they really do have good intentions, and it's probably not bad, with a nice looking Windows interface, and solid .Net platform, and "connectivity" out the yinyang. Of course, it also involves Microsoft holding all the keys, powering all the programs, and generally controlling everything. Even if they believe their marketing department's crap about improving peoples lives and "discovering" something on Windows, their policies are increasingly limiting their effectiveness. Computing is changing, dramatically, and Microsoft is still playing their old games. You still need to buy into their product lines to access the best of these services, and they still only works with Microsoft software. It is just not in Microsoft's nature (i.e. their management) to create products which are truly open, truly innovative, or truly free from the rest of their sources of income. I say good luck to them with this strategy, but it is gonna kill them slowly (unless, of course, their competitors are complete idiots).

  40. ActiveX by marciot · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is gonna be one hell of an ActiveX control...

  41. Re:Yes microsoft is bad by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sorry to bust your balloon but microsoft is fundamentally dedicated to a world where everyone pays a monthly subscription for microsoft products and there are no competitors and any potential competitors are locked out before they can even get started.

    Fooled me once, shame on me- fooled me at least 15 to 20 times- well I guess I should assume you are trying to fool me on any future attempts. (convicted of stealing competitors products, well known tendency of breaking competitors products by tweaking the operating system, well known tendency to slow competitors products by tweaking the operating system or using illegal API's and still certifying product, bundling, giving away products for free until the competition is dead then never innovating, "embracing and extending" java, j++, the halloween memoes, "collaborating" on products with a competitor and then bringing out their own version using knowledge they picked up during the collaboration, etc. etc. etc.).

    They are not just another large capitalist company. They are something unique and they want to lock that in forever. They bought or drove out of business every legitimate business that competed with them either legally or illegally (Stak/doublespace comes to mind- there are others).

    Trust me, you don't know it but you really do want 4 to 5 solid OS's competing with many different products so that they keep each other honest.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  42. Discontinue IE by Gates82 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Will this finally rid us of core OS pieces that are supposed to be simple applications? By having all of these services remote it seems that IE could revert to a simple web browser and office wont change how the OS runs, etc. Microsoft could free Windows of all extra (and dangerous) applications that make themselves one with the operating system.

    --
    So who is hotter? Ali or Ali's sister?

  43. Obnoxious PR-Speak by bedouin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "It's easy. It's live, and it has 'me' at the center of the universe," said Blake Irving, a Microsoft vice president who was on stage to demonstrate Windows Live.

    Microsoft has the most obnoxious PR-speak of any corporation on earth. On the other hand, Google or Apple would just tell you what their product does and why you need it, usually in one sentence.

    1. Re:Obnoxious PR-Speak by pe1chl · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... but that is only possible when your product actually does something, and anyone needs it!

  44. Re:No, NO. by ZagNuts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The point was that if the Microsoft page starts becoming widely used advertisers will have to make the choice between advertising on Microsoft's portal or with Google's Adsense and Adwords, thus reducing Google's revenue by splitting the ad market.

  45. firefox support, ya right by fordracerguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft can't even properly support Firefox with Hotmail. I will never once even attempt to log into live.com... You know what I mean about hotmail/Firefox... Various little things that don't work right.

  46. Re:No, NO. by Retric · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Googles advantage with targeted adds is based around the high conversion rate when someone clicks on a Google add they are 2x as likely to buy something from that site as they are from yahoo. Thus people are willing to pay about 2x a much per click for Google adds vs any other type. Now if people really start using Microsoft's portal you might cut into MS's profit's but I don't expect that to be an issue. I use hotmail instead of gmail because I can't connect to gmail at work but I still use Google for search. For MS to cut into Google's profits they are going to have to compete in search AND provide an add service that is as profitable for other sites to use. (Addwords pay's a lot for little space and it fit's in with a lot of websites.) AND take over all the other Google websites that are supported by Addwords.

    PS: Advertisers already have hundreds of options for advertising, as long as people are still looking at websites that are willing to use addwords MS is not goign to cut into Googles profits. In some ways advertising is a zero sum game, but Google is only a tiny fraction of overall advertising. If MS where doing 30billion / year in web adds it would do little to Google's bottom line.

  47. Re:No, they are not by guet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I already said in another post that I want coexistence, not a monopoly on any side.

    Unfortunately what you want doesn't matter at all.

    What Microsoft wants is to kill all competitors by 'cutting off their oxygen supply'. BTW, every other IT company is seen as a competitor. This is ingrained in the corporate culture, and starts at the very top with Gates/Balmer. That is why no one trusts them, not because they love Linux and hate MS (or whatever), but because they hate the things Microsoft has done and wants to do.

  48. Microsoft feeling threatened? by EddyPearson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "When a wounded dog is cornered, its more dangerous than an angry, healthy one"

    It seem Microsoft are doing whatever they can to hit out at Google, MSN really stepped up their game, started trying their own 'AdSense', and now they've gone for what I thought was the more likly thing google was going to branch into: WebApplications. Are Microsoft feeling threatened by Google? Well, Google hasn't encroached onto Microsofts market space (yet!), Desktop Products and OSs etc, But they are 'surrounding' Microsoft. They have a VERY diverse set of products, all for free (as in beer) and soon we'll see base.google.com (Going to KILL ebay) coming out of the box, and perhaps Microsoft are feeling scared :p Heh, thing is everybody loves google, cos google likes firefox :D and now M$ seem to have bowed to that pressure :D

    --
    You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
  49. Re:No, NO. by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But the GP does have a point. At the core of any search engine is, of course, a search box. That's why, I suspect, for many of us Google starts at the search box in Firefox, or as a bookmarklet on the bookmarks bar (works in any browser).

    Heck, on Linux you can go one step further and bind a key combo to pop-up a text box, then have a shell script use the text to launch Google in Firefox, or Beagle on your documents, or IM someone.

    I'd say the "live" desktop is already here. Of course, integration is still a nice thing, but frankly if I can get quality results from the same unified text box, I can live without a unified interface for the results.

    --
    i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
  50. Re:Yes microsoft is bad by Idontpostmuch · · Score: 2, Informative

    oligopoly

            A market in which a limited number of sellers follow the lead of a single major firm. For example, the domestic automobile market was long characterized as an oligopoly, with American Motors, Chrysler, and Ford following the pricing lead of industry giant General Motors. Compare monopoly, oligopsony.