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Sony's EULA Worse Than Its Rootkit?

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the quite-possibly dept.

jaaron writes "If you think the Sony rootkit is bad, check out the accompanying EULA! From the EFF's summary: 'If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. ... Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. ... Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling.'"

105 of 521 comments (clear)

  1. Don't pay for CD from these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying. I'm not anti-copyright in general, but the music industry is just so evil these days.

    1. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, if you look at the history of that industry since the invention of the player piano, it has always been an evil enterprise. One could easily argue that they are a parasitic group riding on the backs of our most creative individuals. And perhaps that parasitism (they would call it "symbiosis") was necessary at one time, I don't know.

      The difference between the industry today, and our perception of it in decades past is that modern technology has forced them out into the open. Right there for everyone to see, peer-to-peer lawsuits, corrupt lawmakers, broadcast flags and all. The buying public can begin to understand the nature of the organizations that provide our entertainment, if such knowledge is considered important. I think it is, and obviously you do, but given that sales of CDs and DVDs are on the rise, even now, I tend think that most people simply do not. But from Disney to the RIAA to the MPAA to Sony, we have one of the most corrupt, dissembling groups of corporate thugs in existence anywhere. Well, perhaps they're overshadowed by the oil companies ... hard to say which is more evil. But fortunately I can choose where to spend my entertainment dollars: unfortunately I have to buy gas to get to work.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by ndtechnologies · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Recording Industry tried to sue radio broadcasting out of existence back in the 1920's, because they feared that people wouldn't buy their records if people could listen to it for free on the radio. They were forced to evolve their business model, and have since learned that radio is their biggest method of getting music out. The internet is much the same. The Recording Industry is trying the internet and it's users out of existence as well. Soon companies like Sony and other labels are going to find out that they can not bite the hand that feeds them. Which is exactly why we created our online music store. It is for independent artists. Check out my sig for more info.

      --
      I have nothing clever to put here...
    3. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by uncoveror · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just boycotting Sony's music products isn't enough to fix this. We need to boycott every Sony product, even Playstation. Any other company that tries these tricks also needs to be smacked down by losing their customers. Continuing to buy things from such racketeers only encourages them to keep up the bad work.

      --
      The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
    4. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by mochan_s · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I trust an anonymous P2P peer more than I trust Sony, Microsoft etc. Everytime Apple releases a iTunes update I start asking myself it this is the release where the iTMS pervades iTunes (before you say anything, it's already half way there; before version 5 you could remove all iTMS items from iTunes, now you can only remove the arrow links from your database) or when they will give me a hard time on loading my MP3s onto the iPod. Each Quicktime or Acroboat or whatever software upgrades just seem to add more ads; more icons; more grabs at system prefs and software from their "partners".

      Now, I never trust myself to put a music CD or DVD into my computer. My reference speakers are connected to my computer and so I listen to my CDs most on my computer. But, who knows that's in the CD and how it was designed to screw with your computer.

      Yeah, even if I disable this and that, I'm sure Media Player keeps an eye out for all the CDs I put in my computer or will in the future and god knows what it will do.

      So, if I want a music, I trust P2P to give me a simple, clean MP3 file. I'm even afraid of downloading from iTMS and WMA files since now, they might be innocious now but, who knows, they could any day change to do nefarious "upgrade". Or maybe have latent tags and all that will one day become active as certain hardware standard enforcemens come into play.

    5. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by bmac83 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've been fairly moderate about DRM in the past, until I purchased the rootkit-encumbered new Foo Fighters album. I placed it in my CD-ROM drive to encode some MP3's for my portable player, and I noticed a licensing agreement popped up. I hate those "software enhancements" on movie DVD's and audio CD's, and I did what I have always told my girlfriend to do when the InterActual ones come up: I closed the window without accepting the licensing agreement.

      The software was still installed on my computer. The dirtiest thing about all this, in my opinion, is that the "A" in EULA (Agreement) is nothing of the sort. If I had agreed to the EULA and got the rootkit with the garbled audio and everything else, I would say caveat emptor until the laws are changed or lawsuits create a deterrent. Even if the contract is 200 pages long, we should probably be reading them. Or, we should demand a law like what the credit card companies have that requires a standardized matrix that summarizes how we're going to get cheated, monitored, and butt-raped.

      They could have done this legally (we can talk about the ethics another day), but they chose to circumvent their own legal measures: the "yes" and "no" that is supposed to make all this work. Now, I'm glad to see that this will give the world a reason to say caveat venditor.

    6. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Check out my sig for more info.

      Why is your website's mascott a robot with a huge penis?


      -Colin

    7. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They were forced to evolve their business model

      By "they" you mean radio, right? Who ended up forced to only play certain songs at certain times with a myriad of various restrictions?

      I think the RIAA won that war, even if they lost the court battle. Of course, with the radio stations raking in the payola, it's hard to say who's really pulling the strings...

    8. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by idunno2112 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree.

      In the Internet age, do we really need the RIAA or MPAA? All any band/movie producer needs creative people and market themselves because the distribution channels, formerly controlled by the RIAA/MPAA, are now open to the common folk because the cost to produce such works is within the budget of anyone willing to work a minimum wage job and live in their parent's basement.

      I can produce, distribute and market my own movies/garage band on the Internet. If people like the product, it turns a profit. If the product sucks, it doesn't profit. Why did Barney the Dinosaur become so huge? Marketing. Do you think a parent who cares about their child would subject their child to the mind numbing antics of a purple dinosaur? Do parents who subject their children to Barney even watch and see what they are showing their children?

      The RIAA/MPAA is not dedicated to quality. Why? Quality is subjective, profits are objective: some business manager OK'ed the Hulk movie because, hey, everybody knows who the Hulk is so at least N people will go see it/buy it, plug that into the profit-o-lator, and bingo, they figure out they should at least break even, which isn't bad business practice because a bunch of people got paid in the process. However, such a scenario does not bode well for the "art".

      Similarly, at its height of popularity, Atari was making a killing with their 2600 console. Alas, they let piles of steaming crappy games get published in quest of more profits. Where are they now?

      Having a work earn its value spurs creativity and innovation rather than remakes and rehash. With hokey television series like Dukes of Hazzard being remade, what's next? The A-Team? Chris Tucker as Murdock, the Rock as Mr. T, Leslie Neilsen as Hannible and Michael Jackson as Face?

    9. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, if it's any consolation to you ...

      I don't need consolation. Frankly, I don't care what you do. My point was that if you really wanted to you could avoid buying gas if you wanted to. I'm not being critical of you for burning gas.

      You seem to agree that you could avoid buying gas if you wanted to, but the costs outweigh the benefits, and so you continue to buy gas. So it is not so much that you can't avoid buying gas as it doesn't make sense for at the present time.

      I didn't plan my situation. I'm just lucky that I don't need gas. I think that if you really wanted to you could keep from buying gas.

      I meet a lot of people who say the same as you, that they need to buy gas, and I think people need to realize that they don't need gas. They choose to buy gas because it makes sense. But if it's stuck in one's head that buying gas is necessary, they stop weighing the cost/benefit of gas -- and that is a dangerous situation. And by cost/benefit I don't just mean monetary, there may be environmental/pride/ethical concerns as well.

    10. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really. The RIAA pretty much has a stranglehold on radio, and radio is not "on-demand". They have absolutely no control over the Internet (aside from trying to sue people) and all music is available all the time and they get no (direct) money from it. Sure, some people will like what they hear and support the artist, but I am not convinced most people will do this when they have near-CD quality mp3s. While I agree that the RIAA could do much more to embrace the Internet (iTunes has been fairly successful), I don't think that the Internet is "much the same" as radio, at least not in its current form.

    11. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 4, Insightful
      modern technology has forced them out into the open

      If it weren't for sites like this and others, and independent researchers who expose these shennanigans, their unethical behavior would go largely unremarked.

      Even as it is, only the few in the world who actually keep up with stuff like this, know anything about it. Sure, CNN has a story on their website, buried deep, but there has been no mention on their headline news channel. (But we can always find out how long that blonde chick has been missing.)

      These people are allowing their journalistic principles (as if they had any) be corrupted by the business interests of their corporate masters. Sure, this is nothing new. But I should would love to see this story spread wide enough so that 95% of the people in the US know about it.

      --

      They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
    12. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by zCyl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been fairly moderate about DRM in the past, until I purchased the rootkit-encumbered new Foo Fighters album. I placed it in my CD-ROM drive to encode some MP3's for my portable player, and I noticed a licensing agreement popped up. I hate those "software enhancements" on movie DVD's and audio CD's, and I did what I have always told my girlfriend to do when the InterActual ones come up: I closed the window without accepting the licensing agreement.

      The software was still installed on my computer. The dirtiest thing about all this, in my opinion, is that the "A" in EULA (Agreement) is nothing of the sort.

      So send them a bill for the computing resources they used without your consent, and for the labor required to remove their unauthorized installation. If they don't pay, get a lawyer.

      If it's illegal for virus writers to distribute trojans, it should be equally illegal for the Foo Fighters.

    13. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Yeah, even if I disable this and that, I'm sure Media Player keeps an eye out for all the CDs I put in my computer or will in the future and god knows what it will do. So, if I want a music, I trust P2P to give me a simple, clean MP3 file. I'm even afraid of downloading from iTMS and WMA files since now, they might be innocious now but, who knows, they could any day change to do nefarious "upgrade". Or maybe have latent tags and all that will one day become active as certain hardware standard enforcemens come into play.
      Well, if you're truly paranoid, there's no reason to believe than an MP3 cannot have 'latent tags' in it either, encoded in a manner similar to (but different from) ID3v2, and perhaps mangled so you cannot see them there. So, as long as you use iTunes, WMP, or any other similar proprietary software, you cannot truly be sure that some DRM scheme won't be activated one day and suddenly apply to all your old files retroactively, MP3 or not. FOSS players are somewhat safer, not only because you can, in theory, check the code for yourself, but also because there's arguably no motivation for the people who write it to introduce such things. Then again, I'd watch out for any open-source media offerings from MS and Apple either way.
    14. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by mochan_s · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, if you're truly paranoid, there's no reason to believe than an MP3 cannot have 'latent tags' in it either, encoded in a manner similar to (but different from) ID3v2, and perhaps mangled so you cannot see them there. So, as long as you use iTunes, WMP, or any other similar proprietary software, you cannot truly be sure that some DRM scheme won't be activated one day and suddenly apply to all your old files retroactively, MP3 or not. FOSS players are somewhat safer, not only because you can, in theory, check the code for yourself, but also because there's arguably no motivation for the people who write it to introduce such things. Then again, I'd watch out for any open-source media offerings from MS and Apple either way.

      There IS a reason to believe that MP3 will always be good. The source code for an MP3 decoder is out there and it does not change from version to version of WMP or iTunes or whatever. You get an MP3 file, you can strip the tags or make the headers complaint whatever. You know exactly what's supposed to be there in the file.

      However, there are no source code or formal specification for WMP and iTunes AAC out there. It's totally closed and locked away. So, you get or buy a WMP or an AAC file who knows what's in there.

    15. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by BrynM · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I didn't plan my situation. I'm just lucky that I don't need gas. I think that if you really wanted to you could keep from buying gas.
      I gave my car away over a year ago (really, literally gave it away to someone). I stopped driving about 2 1/2 years ago. What happened? I saved about $700 a month on gas, insurance (another evil) and repairs. I got healthier from riding a bicycle and walking. I learned more about my area by taking public rail (busses still suck most everywhere).

      I did plan my situation and now I don't think I would ever buy another scam-mobile. I laugh openly at people who drive. When they get all purturbed or argue, I ask them how much they spend on insurance/gas every month. It usually adds up that they could have that plasma screen they want in just a month or two. I have my plasma screen and a bunch of other things.

      Want a 360? PS3? Trip to Europe? Park your car for a month or two and re-insure it as parked if you must.

      Want to stop the middle-east/big-oil/politicians from becoming so powerful? Stop handing them your money.

      Good for you for dropping the gas pump syringe. More Americans should.

      --
      US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
    16. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This parasitism was never necessary to the point they took it from day one. Why should a recording label have any copyright to music at all? That's not the way the book publishing industry was built. The difference is that the book publishing industry came into being in a different time, when it was considered an extremely unethical business practice for a publisher to try to take the copyright from an author. The music industry made that same practice a matter of course. If that kind of greed had never been allowed in the first place, we wouldn't have many of the copyright problems we do today.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    17. Re:Don't pay for CD from these guys by ndtechnologies · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's not a penis. It is the neck of a guitar. I can't believe I actually had to respond to a comment like this...

      --
      I have nothing clever to put here...
  2. SONY's modest proposal by yagu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Disclaimer: I hate Sony. Hate them, hate them, HATE them!

    That said, I was a little put off by the article and suspected it was a bit hyperbolic, designed to whip the masses into an unwarranted (unwarranteed?) frenzy.

    But, a funny thing happened on my way to show this critique a bit harsh. I read the actual Sony EULA. Wow! I'll still say there is a little hyperbole in the /. article but, on whole, it's true! Holy Shit Batman (probably get a DRM ding for that!).

    It's time to take SONY to the woodshed. Don't purchase anything with any SONY signature (this may require a little research, SONY makes ccd's for lots of digital cameras).

    I am saddened a little more each new DRM'ed day and more thankful each day I was alive early enough to amass a comfortable 1000-CD collection of music I can freely copy, rip, etc.

    I hope only better days for the X, Y, and Z generations. God Bless all of you.

    (Seriously, if there were some visible and concerted effort to boycott one of these leading vendors, maybe there would be some softening of this death march to control content (most consumers, contrary to popular belief, are willing (and DO) to pay for their media, don't abuse fair use priveleges, and are NOT criminals). I can't contribute much more against SONY since I swore them off from the MiniDisk debacle -- sold all of my SONY equipment, won't buy ANY SONY equipment -- my house is as SONY-free as I've been able to make it.)

    1. Re:SONY's modest proposal by penix1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "It's time to take SONY to the woodshed. Don't purchase anything with any SONY signature (this may require a little research, SONY makes ccd's for lots of digital cameras)."

      No that never works, it is time for people to get off their duff and take Sony to court. Strangly enough for copyright violation! Title 17 allows for archival and educational study use (things commonly known as "fair use"). By instituting DRM in this fashion they have deprived us of those rights. For added measure include a charge of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

      But of course we know that none of that will happen. The media lobbies are too powerful. Let's face it, we have the best legislature money can buy.

      B.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    2. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Berserk+CEO · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's time to take SONY to the woodshed. Don't purchase anything with any SONY signature (this may require a little research, SONY makes ccd's for lots of digital cameras).

      I support you in this fight, but when the PS3 comes out, the battle is most probably lost. Masses don't care about their digital rights, as long as they get their daily shots of soap operas and Final Fantasies. You and I know what's going on, but in the grand scale the corporate brainwashing works.

      How to fight an enemy this big? Some form of consumer guerrilla tactics are needed. Tell all your friends what's going on. Most people won't care. But at least that's a start.

      --
      Not every CEO is a psychopath.
    3. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, there are some of us that are really looking forward to the Revolution. You can take your rehashed first person shooters. I'll take my cartoon graphics and good gameplay.

    4. Re:SONY's modest proposal by salvorHardin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Seriously, if there were some visible and concerted effort to boycott one of these leading vendors...

      Would you like to boycott Sony?

    5. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Compaq_Hater · · Score: 2, Insightful

      with an attitude like that you will not be enjoying those freedoms in the future, thats the point the more people like you just lay down and accept things like what sony was trying to do and what other comapnies are doing you will loose your so called artists that later in a DRM frenzy as more and more things Music,Movies,TV,Radio Ect get DRM Crippling Shoved up thier ass.

      CH

    6. Re:SONY's modest proposal by ThePhilips · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is unfortunate side-effect.

      Sony Classical is one of the biggest classical recording & CD publishing companies. If you will look into classical guitar (for example) you will find that about 90% of artists are published by Sony Classical.

      I already hate SONY - with just this one little exception...

      P.S. I recently bought a pile of CDs from Sony Classical, expecting to find a lot of (CP) markers, DRM toolkits, root-kits, thousand clause EULAs, etc. To my disappointment there were none included, even with SACDs.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    7. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Ahnteis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What if I have autoplay turned off and I "abuse" the "CD" by treating it as a normal CD? The EULA never shows up and so I never agree to it.

      What about the person who uses a "normal" CD player? They certainly aren't going to be reading anything.

      (Unless of course this is one of those "by opening this package you agree to the EULA inside" things which I doubt could be enforced.)

    8. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > If people want to buy CDs that installs spyware on their computer and allows the company to go in and delete that person's files, what business is it of mine?

      The problem here is: They neither want it, nor do they know about it!

      It's just a big corporate fraud and abuse!

      But what do you expect in a economic feudalism?

      As long as they have that power and we just are a bunch of single poeple, this ain't gonna change!

      So what can we do? We need to organize ourselves so we can create our own powerful organization! (And then beat the living crap out of them! ;)

      Any suggestions how we could reach this goal?
      Remember: Never underestimate the power of stupid poeple in large groups!
      Just learn to guide them in your way instead of the company's one and fight them with their own [obviously successful] weapons.

      And finally - to make em a favour - try to
      1. makine up your own law, that WSMG (weapons of stupid mass guidance) are forbidden.
      2. use your own WSMG to push the law into the lawbooks.
      3. put them in jail!

      This worked fine in the past. Just look at The Iraq-War. (And in this case they even *really* have WSMG!)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    9. Re:SONY's modest proposal by Fafnir43 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Or else you'll be stuck playing Pikachu's.

      Or perhaps RPGs (e.g. Final Fantasy, Baten Kaitos, Harvest Moon), FPSes (Metroid Prime comes to mind), or survival horror games (like Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness). I'm really getting tired of people bashing Nintendo for being 'kiddy' when it is now blatantly false.

      --
      To know recursion, you must first know recursion.
    10. Re:SONY's modest proposal by displaced80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First they came for the Jews
      and I did not speak out
      because I was not a Jew.
      Then they came for the Communists
      and I did not speak out
      because I was not a Communist.
      Then they came for the trade unionists
      and I did not speak out
      because I was not a trade unionist.
      Then they came for me
      and there was no one left
      to speak out for me.

      Pastor Martin Niemöller

      --
      What's the frequency, Kenneth?
    11. Re:SONY's modest proposal by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My dad doesn't "get" computers either, and he has a harder time conducting business with people who do.
      Being proud of your inabilities is something that's quite strange...

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
    12. Re:SONY's modest proposal by mblase · · Score: 4, Funny

      Congratulations, you just Godwin'd the entire thread.

    13. Re:SONY's modest proposal by nasor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm afraid you're mistaken about this. Title 17 doesn't grant you an inalienable right to fair use; it merely states that it isn't a violation of copyright law for you to engage in fair use. Sony isn't under any obligation to make it easy, or even possible, for you to engage in fair use because of Title 17. They simply can't take you to court over it if you manage to.

  3. Rootkit worse by external400kdiskette · · Score: 3, Interesting

    EULA's are just things nobody reads or pays any attention to that basically say the company isn't responsible for anything but that hasn't stopped them from being sued in the past so who cares about it.

    Rootkits on the otherhand are dangerous to your computer and in this Sony case even caused conflicts with other problems and could disable your drive. So it's hard to compare, the rootkit seems infinitely worse to me.

    1. Re:Rootkit worse by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      EULA's are just things nobody reads or pays any attention to that basically say the company isn't responsible for anything but that hasn't stopped them from being sued in the past so who cares about it.

      For now. In the not so distant future the DRM will basicly stop you from doing anything at all and when you complain "it's in the EULA and has been there for 10 years, our hardware is simply enforcing the agreement". Once they have the means to back up all the ludicrous terms, you won't be ignoring it and you won't be laughing.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Rootkit worse by Dolda2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Once they have the means to back up all the ludicrous terms, you won't be ignoring it and you won't be laughing.
      And the worst thing about it is the fact that it's only normal, legal customers that won't be laughing. The real pirates will still be able to crack the DRM one way or another and not be put off even the slightest. Remember, it only takes a single rip off of a DRM:d media, and the content is completely loose. It's only the legal people that get screwed, when they can't burn a collection CD for the car stereo or rip it to their MP3 players.
    3. Re:Rootkit worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they are generally not binding. They're only visible after purchase, and the "agree" button is considered a part of the install process, not an agreement to the "contract" that isn't valid at that point in the install process.

      While a few idiot judges in a few jurisdictions have held otherwise, in the VAST majority of jurisdictions, they're not worth the pixels they're printed on.

      The only way one would be valid in MOST places would be for it to be "signed" - electronically or paper - BEFORE the exchange of money. And of course, even then, the "whacko" clauses would be invalid.

      An "after the fact" contract is almost never legally binding.

  4. Finally! by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The "I'm going to pirate because the record companies are fucking us over" excuse actually holds water!

    I'm just not going to pay $15 for the right to listen to music in a fixed order in a certain CD player on the second Tuesday of each month between five and eight PM. The things Sony is demanding go against the concept of fair use...and I get the feeling that thi story could do just as much damage as the rootkit one did, if not more.

    --
    Goo goo g'joob.
    1. Re:Finally! by hackstraw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm just not going to pay $15 for the right to listen to music in a fixed order in a certain CD player on the second Tuesday of each month between five and eight PM. The things Sony is demanding go against the concept of fair use...and I get the feeling that thi story could do just as much damage as the rootkit one did, if not more.

      Ah, but we all now respect Sony's intellectual rights now, right?

      Fuck these people and their "intellectual" property. Fuck them right in the ear while I "break the law" and smoke pot in my house.

      I've found that its easier to think of large groups of people as one person. It seems to make sense, like a country or a corporation. When countries fight, bicker, or have issues or get along, its just like individuals. The same goes for a corporation.

      If I were to know somebody that sold me a car, I would think they were paranoid and psychotic if they came over and inspected if I were changing the oil regularly and made sure I didn't take the american brand name emblems off of it and rice it up with some V-TEC stickers. Lord fucking forgive me if I wreck the car, it gets stolen, or I sell the thing and buy another one.

      Instead of being psychotic you stupid rich fucking music pimps, and either get out of the way because your doing a shitty job, or sell us a product that we want.

      Apple is close with iPods and iTunes. The downside is that 1) you can only really "properly" get your music from them 2) its a hack at best if you want to do something stupid like listen to your music in your car or home stereo instead of earphones.

      We don't want CDs anymore. Don't you realize that? People throw away the plastic cases that break and take up too much room. They trow them in a CD book, and over time they get scratched because the technology sucks for portability and convenience. Its next to impossible to switch and hear one song from another CD while you are driving in the car, and then listen to another CD. CD changers hold what? Maybe 10 CDs. Whoopty shit.

      We want more music at a reasonable price that is convenient and portable to listen to.

      I repeat.

      We want more music at a reasonable price that is convenient and portable to listen to.

      We don't want stuff that you have to listen to on one piece of equipment (DRMed to hell). We don't want early 80's shiny fragile disks that hold about 45 minutes to an hour of music provided that every song is worth listening to.

      People on average are not unreasonable. Or at least not like you're trying to be.

      Proprietary things like game cartridges are OK, because they work, and its a thing. My large stereo speakers are OK at my house, but suck in my car, or if I'm walking down the street. Your 45 minute at best CD is barely acceptable in a car, barely acceptable when walking, and barely acceptable at home.

      We want playlists, smart shuffling, portability, variety, and are willing to pay for it.

      I mean, what does this stupid company Sony do besides fuck around with music recordings and DRM and rootkits? Oh, I've heard they make electronics for the home, the car, portable audio, and even computers. In fact at one time the word Walkman (didn't even get caught by my spell checker) was as big as the word iPod. In fact, that was about the time the CD came out. If you had your shit together and made electronics to satisfy our needs, you could give the music away and still make money. What the fuck have you done differently since 1982 Sony? Times have changed. People are very willing to pay money for convenience and entertainment. We don't go around stealing shit at every chance we get.

      So finally, fuck you and your DRM, your EULAs, proprietary redundant formats, and everything else.

      The shit you do is stupid, and we simply are demonstrating this fact by the way we spend our money on other goods and services.

      I never, ever though that when I was a kid who liked the songs I heard on the radio and the albums that I had at

  5. Sony, Enforce this IF you have the balls by a_greer2005 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I can't wait untill these fuckers try to enforcfe this on some 12 year old after his/her home burns down. I can see the headlines now: "Youngster looses everything in fire; Media companies say (s)he must now erase ipod and laptop backups of her music."

    If you think the rootkit caused a backlash, just wait.

    1. Re:Sony, Enforce this IF you have the balls by lordofthechia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      " I can't wait untill these fuckers try to enforcfe this on some 12 year old"

      I want to see them enforce it on our troops abroad. I know many a troop that travels not with dozens/hundreds of cds but instead with a compact mp3 player that's more out of the way. Why would Sony care? Well check out this tidbit:

      From TFA: "If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music. The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside."

      From TFEULA: "(e) You may not export the LICENSED MATERIALS outside of the country where you reside."

      That's what I'd like to see. Sony starts suing the troops abroad over EULA violations. And why can't we travel out of the country with our music, seriously. If the were ever a time...

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
  6. Sony's engineering arm? by irote · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has anything been heard from employees of Sony's consumer products arm? By and large, they manufacture high-quality kit - they have high standards, and one assumes they can't be happy to see this coming from their music arm. Not to mention the fact that, AFAIK, Sony BMG is essentially a US company, steeped in copyright culture, whereas the consumer electronics arm remains largely Japanese and engineering-led.

    do we know about the relative profitability of the two arms? Is this likely to bring forward the day when the two companies go their separate ways?

    1. Re:Sony's engineering arm? by Simonics+Zsolt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "By and large, they manufacture high-quality kit - they have high standards" Do you, by any chance, still live in the 80's? Maybe their professional gear are still high quality, but their consumer stuff is not that "it's a sony" anymore...

    2. Re:Sony's engineering arm? by NCraig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are, I assume, referring to the same "Japanese" electronics arm that is behind Blu-ray DRM?

      Judging by the tricks Sony is developing for consumer electronics, I'd assume their "engineering-led" arm is saying "Hell yeah, BMG, lead the way!"

    3. Re:Sony's engineering arm? by jack_csk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ya, last time I checked, the slogan becomes "It's a sorry".

    4. Re:Sony's engineering arm? by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is true. I know of a friend who worked for sony back in the day who confirmed this observation. For all practical intents and purposes, sony's various divisions are completely separate companies with little more in common then their name.

      When the various divisions begin to interact, it has always ended in disaster. Betamax. Atrac8. Minidisc. DRM. Blu-Ray.....

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  7. EULAs are not legal by abigsmurf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    especially outside the US in places like the UK where they try and take away rights from the consumer rights act which are illegal to sign away. Also they're 'legally binding' contracts that almost always never once ask for an adult to agree. Guess what, contracts aren't valid if only signed by a minor. It's about time someone sued these companies for illegal EULAs

  8. Re:First Post by bigman2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Heh is right.

    Sony is the WORST company out there for overly tight protection and DRM.

    The Minidisc NetMD could have been a fantastic product. I bought three of them (one for me, my wife, and my daughter). Too bad the software was so horrible that it became unusable.

    I have had similar problems with memory stick. I have had two devices which ONLY accepted memory stick. I ended up with a camera that I could not get pictures from...thanks Sony.

    The amazing thing is that people consider Microsoft to be THE 'bad' company in the console wars. I disagree...I would say that Sony is much worse.

    --
    No reason to lie.
  9. Misleading Artical by totuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home." That's quite a misleading interpretation of what the EULA actually says. Now, I want to make it clear that I'm no fan of Sony, but that is merely someone's interpretation, not an actual part of the EULA. The EULA actually says "In the event that you no longer possess or have the right under such license to use the original CD product, your rights hereunder to use the DIGITAL CONTENT shall expire immediately." To me, it seems that if your CD is really stolen, you can still use the back-up you have. That's part of fair use, isn't it? Backups in case of fire or theft or hurricanes, etc. What the EULA is saying is that you can't rip the CD to your hard drive and then sell it on eBay, all the while keeping the ripped version. Basically, it's the idea of trying to prevent users from going to Blockbuster, renting a DVD, and then making a copy.

    1. Re:Misleading Artical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      To me, it seems that if your CD is really stolen, you can still use the back-up you have. That's part of fair use, isn't it?


      That IS part of fair use and thats why there is a problem. The EULA stating that you lose rights to the "digital content" means that if you don't have the physical CD, then you're not allowed to have the music it contained. The original authors statement is an extreme case, but his interpretation of the license agreement is correct.
    2. Re:Misleading Artical by uncoveror · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is exactly what the EULA stipulates. If you nolonger have the original CD, you nolonger have a license to use copies of it. You must delete them. Maybe the EULA would not stand up in court due to "fair use", but the matter here is only what the EULA says, not whether it is enforceable. The EFF is correctly translating what it says into english. The truth is not sensationalism.

      --
      The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
  10. same thing applies to bankruptcy by Ankou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yet another stupid requirement to the EULA is according to this article here: "You must delete your songs if you move out of the country or if you file for bankruptcy."

  11. Screw their license and software: use Linux by acroyear · · Score: 5, Informative

    I realize this comment is now making /. violate the DMCA, so if they feel like deleting it for legal reasons, fine.

    The CDs "protected" by this scheme are very easy to copy and have no "skip-gap" style protections that break normal cd-copy mechanisms and theoretically work "fine" on normal cd players (experience has shown otherwise).

    cdrdao can read the cds just fine (I used it on the G3 Live in Tokyo release that just came out last week), and quickly identifies the data/file-system tracks from the main. rip with cdrdao, edit the toc file to remove the data tracks, and burn away. the resultant cdrom can load anywhere and is easily ripped into mp3s for your *legal* right to listen to music you purchase your way.

    in fact, the most rediculous thing about their "protection" of the G3 cds is that for the 2-cd set, the second cd isn't even "protected" with that filesystem. protecting the 2nd disk relies directly on the root-kit hack that detects and analysis when sony cds are inserted, that SONY expects you would have installed by sticking the cd-1 in first.

    --
    "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
    -- Joe
  12. Sony rootkit uses GPL code (LAME) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://dewinter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=art icle&sid=215

    1. Re:Sony rootkit uses GPL code (LAME) by yfkar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, it's LGPL but static linking is still forbidden iirc.

  13. It gets worse... by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Sony uninstaller is an ActiveX object marked safe for scripting (which means any website can use it in their code)

    Its got some wonderful entries which still leave holes in your system (like rebooting your computer, and a method called "ExecuteCode")
    The guys has only just started work, but has an expliotable test together which will reboot your machine.

    Look here for more info about Sony uninstallation fun.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  14. In that case... by TooMuchEspressoGuy · · Score: 5, Funny
    ...perhaps I should force Sony to sign the following when I purchase their CD's...

    I, the undersigned, agree to the following terms of the use of TooMuchEspressoGuy's money (hereafter referred to as "my money") as it has been spent on Sony music products:

    1) If Sony HQ, any factories, or any other property owned by employees of Sony gets burgled, you must give me back my money.

    2) You cannot keep my money in your pocket at work, or in any bank or online service such as Paypal.

    3) If you move out of the country, you must give me back my money.

    4) You must install any and all software that I decide should be on the computers of any Sony employee, or else give me back my money.

    5) I reserve the right to install any backdoors on said computers stipulated in (4) in order to enforce my rights as proper holder of my money.

    6) I will never be liable to you for more than exactly $5.00 for damages to you or your property through the use of any of the rights granted to me in this EULA.

    7) If you file for bankruptcy, you must give me back my money.

    8) You have no right to transfer (i.e. spend) my money, even along with the original coins, dollar bills, etc.

    9) You may not use my money for personal use, including but not limited to: origami; flipping coins; lighting expensive Cuban cigars; et al.

    As soon as Sony agrees to this EULA, or gets rid of its own, I will begin buying Sony music again.

    --
    Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
    1. Re:In that case... by fossa · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's actually a good idea... wrap your money and a copy of your EULA in plastic, slap a sticker on the front "by opening this you agree to the enclosed", and pay with that. If you ever get sued for "violating" their EULA, then the same legal reasoning would surely enforce your EULA.

  15. Microsoft Anti-Spyware to remove rootkit by RonnyJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On a related note, it looks like Microsoft have decided to add detection/removal of the Sony rootkit to Anti-Spyware (details here - though it sounds like the non-rootkit DRM part won't be touched).

  16. Will Sony accept my "VULA"? by adnonsense · · Score: 5, Funny

    I haven't got the full text back from my lawyer, but in future all of my transactions with Sony will be accompanied by a "vendor user license agreement":

    ...

    IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: By accepting my (hereafter: "CONSUMER") purchase of your product, you (hereafter: "VENDOR") will need to review and agree to be bound by an vendor user license agreement or "VULA", the terms and conditions of which are set forth below.

    As soon as you have agreed to be bound by the terms and conditions of the VULA, this transaction will automatically install a small proprietary software program (the "SOFTWARE") into YOUR BOOKKEEPING SYSTEM.

    ...

    From time to time CONSUMER will use the SOFTWARE to enforce his statutory rights, including checking the validity of any data held on him and updating it as he deems fit and in accordance with relevant privacy and data protection laws.

    ...

  17. No juries allowed... by rworne · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Article 10. GOVERNING LAW AND WAIVER OF TRIAL BY JURY
    ...

    2. YOU HEREBY WAIVE ALL RIGHTS AND/OR ENTITLEMENT TO TRIAL BY JURY IN CONNECTION WITH ANY DISPUTE THAT ARISES OUT OF OR RELATES IN ANY WAY TO THIS EULA OR THE SOFTWARE.


    Wow, no jury trials, eh? They are really covering their bases here if they cannot count on the "common person" to agree with them in a jury trial.

     
    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    1. Re:No juries allowed... by rworne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well look at it this way:

      If you open the box on said piece of software, break the seal on the disc, read the EULA and don't agree with the terms, what do you do?

      The store you bought it from isn't going to take opened software back at all. I'm also pretty sure the software company's response to a phone call would be "Just return it to the retailer." I do suppose you could put the screws to a retailer if the EULA says to return it to the place of purchase for a refund, but even that is asking for a hassle.

      Then again Sony's license says the maximum they are liable for in any case is $5.00. So I guess if you pester them enough they'll send you a check for five bucks.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  18. Consumer response by Stiletto · · Score: 4, Funny

    Music Label: We grant ourselves the authority to do anything we want inside or outside your house, to you and your family, with or without notice, including but not limited to: erasing your wedding photos, replacing all your music with Milli Vanilli's Greatest hits, recording you singing in the shower, ruining your kid's christmas, getting you fired from your job, anally raping your poodle with a steel toothbrush, and force-feeding you your own dead grandmother's ashes. You hereby agree to hold Music Label harmless and you expressly waive all rights to damages, compensatory and punitive, arising from Music Label's actions.

    Joe Consumer: What is a rootkit? Is it dangero---WHOA NEW ALBUM ADVERTISED AT ME! MUST BUY IT NOW!!! MUST BUY IT NOW!!!

  19. Reductio ad Absurdum by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I don't like to reduce these things to the absurd, but these EULA are silly, and the music EULAs doubly so. Typcially in software they had some justification as they, at least at first, limited the liability of the producer, although in an extremely clumsy way. As time went on, these things have gotten more insane, and frankly make software of so little value that I tend to limit what I use and buy.

    But at least most software producers understands the relationship between the paying customer and the company that depends on those customers. Even MS has gotten some sense by allowing copies of software to be stored on multiple devices. This is in sharp constrast to the music industry that seems to belive they could exist without customers. I mean deleting music off a harddisk is not that big a deal, but why force the situation. I mean, sure, if one sells a CD one should delete all copies, but why make a victim pay twice? I mean if you just lost all your possesions, except for the few items that were with you, is the music industry going to begrudge you a few copies. If all your money it tied up rebuilding a life after being violated, are they really going to sue you for damages?

    It is so absurd, it is hard to properly reduce. Perhaps asking a women who raped at a dance to pay for the repairs for the dress she rented. Which might happen, but it would be a pretty heartless company.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  20. Bash.org's funny quote related to Sony rootkit... by antdude · · Score: 5, Funny

    My friend sent me this bash.org quote link.

    I would had copy and pasted in here, but /. didn't like the uppercase: "Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
    Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING." and I am lazy to lowercase them manually, and EULA is all CAPS. :(

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  21. Re:Some of this isn't new... by shibashaba · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The whole point of fair use laws is so that you can make backup copies in case something happens to the original. You have every legal right to make a copy of a cd and microwave the original if you so wish.

    --
    ---------- Open Source is capitalism applied to IP.
  22. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are wrong, if someone steals your CD you must delete the copy. If you read the statement you will notice it uses OR, not AND like you seem to think. The use of OR actually makes that one statement two seperate ones. The statement "In the event that you no longer possess or have the right under such license to use the original CD product." can be rewritten as two seperate statements, "In the event that you no longer possess the original CD product." and "In the event that you no longer have the right under such license to use the original CD product." If the CD is stolen you no longer possess the original CD product therefore that clause is triggered.

  23. Re:Parent is correct by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The "or" seems to imply that either one of those cases could be true, and the revokation would take place.

    So, if you no longer possess the CD (house burns down), then you lose the right to use the original "content," and if you lose the right under such license, you also lose the right (very redundant).

    I think what they are doing is covering the "well my CD got stolen, so I just downloaded it off of edonkey and burned it onto a blank CD" excuse.

    --
    Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  24. BWhaa!!?!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So you are allowed to make backups of your CD's for safety (traditional fair use),
    but now if you ever actually need to use those backups because you sat on your original CD, Sony says you must destroy them too. Nice.

    1. Re:BWhaa!!?!! by jack_csk · · Score: 5, Funny

      My brain stores a copy of the music, shall I destroy it?

  25. Info-feudalism by tbuckner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Get used to using the word "info-feudalism", for that is what the corporations are creating. Think about it: under feudalism, the lord owned the land, the serfs worked on the land, and the serfs were not allowed to move away if they didn't like the deal.
    Under info-feudalism:
    Large corporations bribe legislatures to expand "intellectual property" to include many, many things that used to be open to all;
    Government spends your money on basic drug research, but drug companies patent the results;
    Copyright gets extended again and again so that works no longer pass into the public domain after the creator dies;
    Your DNA gets patented by someone else without your say-so; authors patent story lines (!), corporations apply for ridiculously broad patents in an attempt to control what others can and cannot invent;
    Police arrest scientists who publish papers on flaws in Digital Rights Management schemes;
    You buy a song or a movie but never really own it;
    Fair Use quotations are legally doubtful;
    Crooked churches sue their critics because their 'bibles' are copyrighted;
    Governments tell lies such as "piracy helps the terrorists;
    News media are corrupted by their connection to cash-cow entertainment conglomerates;
    And it's not like any of them truly invented the ideas all by themselves; all of society indirectly helped; yet they rob all of society by seeking monopoly. Oh, I could go on and on.
    See this demolition of the whole idea of "Intellectual Property":
    http://deoxy.org/aip.htm

  26. My parsing of the EULA by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the preamble to the EULA
    Before you can play the audio files on YOUR COMPUTER or create and/or transfer the DIGITAL CONTENT to YOUR COMPUTER, you will need to review and agree to be bound by an end user license agreement or "EULA"
    I need to agree?
    Please keep in mind, however, that if you do not agree to be bound by these terms and conditions, you will not be able to utilize the audio files or the DIGITAL CONTENT on YOUR COMPUTER.
    O RLY?

    As far as i can tell, these are merely statements with no force of law.

    I think they're mixing two things together
    1. The DRM software on the CD
    2. The audio tracks on the CD

    There is no EULA that applies to the audio tracks on any CD. If I disagree with their EULA, all it means is that I disagree to use their software to manage my experience. Unless I'm way off base* my reading of the EULA doesn't suggest otherwise.

    They use CAPITAL LETTERS to make sure we know that the license we're being 'granted' is to
    1(a). "install one (1) copy of software"
    1(b). "install one (1) copy of any approved media player(s) contained on this CD"
    1(c). use the software and any approved media player(s)

    *I know the collective genius of /. will correct me if I am wrong
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:My parsing of the EULA by PGC · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The DMCA is only valid in the US of A ... and as far as I am aware, these cd's are distributed world-wide.

      --
      The Dutch will inherit the earth. If not, we'll settle for a bit of ocean. Beta delenda est!
    2. Re:My parsing of the EULA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no EULA that applies to the audio tracks on any CD. If I disagree with their EULA, all it means is that I disagree to use their software to manage my experience.

      You're not off base, that's exactly right, and I'll give a good (although possibly tedious) example.

      You can connect a stereo to your computer via digital audio cable. You insert the CD into the stereo, and play and record the music through your computer. In the end, you are left with audio tracks on your computer. At no point in the process was any DRM circumvented, and no EULA was either presented or agreed to. The DRM was not circumvented because using the stereo you played the music, which is exactly the point of the stereo, and using the computer you recorded the input stream, which is exactly the point of audio recording software, including that which ships with Windows. Therefore, the tracks you have on your system at that point are unencumbered by both DRM and the EULA. You didn't agree to anything when you did that.

      I cannot consider any contract to be valid where the contractee accepts the contract passively. In my view, in order for any contract to be valid, the contractee has to specifically and actively accept the contract, through signature or otherwise. Simply performing an action without having the contract presented is not a valid way of bringing the contract into force.

      The bash.org quote about writing an EULA on a brick (beginning with 'By accepting this brick into your window') and then hurling the brick through Sony's window is a good illustration of that.

  27. Re:Also in the news... by rdoger6424 · · Score: 2, Funny

    They don't have a laughable chair-throwing exec!

    a chair flies in from japan

    INCOMING!!!!

    --
    "Hello 911? I just tried to toast some bread, and the toaster grew an arm and stabbed me in the face!"
  28. Ironic but true.. by canuck57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying.

    It is ironic but true that your computer is now safer to download pirate copys of entertainment than to buy the authentic thing. WTF was Sony/BMG thinking? Most of us are honest!!

    Do keep in mind this tech can also be delivered on DVDs. Although I don't believe it has been done to the masses yet, there is no reason why it couldn't be on a DVD.

    And I for one would have never thought to read the EULA verbose legal microprint to see if it would rootkit my PC. Fortunately I never put the BMG ones I have in my PC.

    Which makes me think this industry just shot itself in the foot.

    1. Re:Ironic but true.. by chronicon · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It is ironic but true that your computer is now safer to download pirate copys of entertainment than to buy the authentic thing. WTF was Sony/BMG thinking? Most of us are honest!!

      That is such a solid point. The whole issue is out of control. What if Sony-BMG is allowed to get away with this? What kind of precedent does it set? Will we now have to worry about every release from every media company that may follow the Sony model and employ their own variant of spy/malware-type Digital Restriction software on their CD or DVD?

      An EULA for CD audio?! When I first read this stuff I could NOT believe what I was seeing! We saw the writing on the wall with CueCat (remember that nonsense?). Do we just get to expect that everything we buy will now include "instructions" on what we can & cannot do with the things that we purchase? This goes beyond killing innovation--heck, instead of selling us merchandise it seems as if we're just paying a leasing fee: the manufacturer still owns the product and gets to tell us how we can use it. Licensed audio CDs, subscription software. I think it is only the beginning. Can't wait until I am forced to buy only certain brands of gasoline for my car based on the EULA I signed when I purchase my next vehicle...

      This all ties in with the honesty factor you mention. Sony (and others) simply use piracy as an excuse for this kind of awful behavior on their part. Please don't swap non-redistributable copyrighted files, if you do, you're ruining it for the rest of us!

      As you can see from the links, I've been stewing over these disturbing trends for days. Years actually. Any excuse to control the consumer seems to be grabbed up immediately by the powers that be...

    2. Re:Ironic but true.. by Fordiman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately, there are enough of us who don't see anything wrong with swapping coprighted materials that uncontrolled P2P filesharing is not going to wink out of existance any time soon.

      And, regardless of what you think, you _can not_ ask or order a significant portion of a population to change their habits. It doesn't work, never has. So the recording industry tries to fight it, but it just reinforces these habits - incites them towards more and more anti-DMCA activities - until someone with a brain over there figures out what's going on.

      *shrug* not my job to make an industry change direction, and they've enough inertia in the wrong direction to make this ... unpleasant. But keep in mind that it's not the public's fault. What the public does in general is due to the nature of humanity. The fact that you may feel above that nature is irrelevant; not everyone has your 'superior' ethics. I put superior in quotes, as I question the ethicality comparison between copyright infringement on a personal level, and supporting a business that engages in questionable practices in a desperate effort to 'protect' their copyright - something this rootkit doesn't actually do.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    3. Re:Ironic but true.. by chronicon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Unfortunately, there are enough of us who don't see anything wrong with swapping coprighted materials... regardless of what you think, you _can not_ ask or order a significant portion of a population to change their habits.

      Sure I can ask (who said anything about "order"?). Why not? Your actions are going to have a negative impact on technology I use for legitimate purposes. Why can't I point this out? I don't agree with the current state of copyright law, I think it is massive overkill with its term of life+75 years, etc. I think it is an affront to creativity and it is robbing the culture, is that ethical? I don't think so, not by a long shot...

      Regardless, it does not matter what I think of copyright law. Do I get to break it just because I disagree with it? Your answer seems to be yes. For a lot of us, that answer is no. I'm not trying to advance my supposed sense of morality on you, I just want you guys to recogonize that your actions will have a negative impact on what we (legally) get to do with products we own. Slowly but surely this is the case, and this Sony rootkit & EULA issue is a prime example. Step back for a moment and disregard the ethical issues (which you've already done according to your comments) and just look at it from the chilling effects this disregard is going to have on technology & innovation. That affects all of us, no matter where you stand on fileswapping as an ethical issue. That was my point.

      You can make the assertion that nobody is going to stop you, that you are going to do what you want with what you own no matter what anybody says (even the law). "You can pry my computer from my cold dead fingers", but that cuts the other way too: "When P2P is outlawed, only outlaws will have P2P." How is that right? How is that fair?

      'superior ethics'? You obviously have a sense of entitlement & superiority over the rest of us, that somehow you have a right to take (for yourself) & post (for others to take) non-redistributable copyrighted software/music/movies. If you really enjoy these products so much, why can't you pay for them like the rest of us?

      Umm, tell us again who has a sense of superiority?

      So yeah, I am asking you guys to play by the rules and not even because "it's the right thing to do." I'm asking because I want to keep my toys and my (current/threatened) rights to (legitimately) do with them what I will...

    4. Re:Ironic but true.. by chronicon · · Score: 3, Insightful
      > If you really enjoy these products so much, why can't you pay for them like the rest of us?

      I think the answer to that question is in just about every other post. Because you are worse off after buying these products.

      Tell me where I can buy a copy of a movie that will play on my linux system from my hardrive. Furthermore, if I'm paying for such a copy I want the codec that it's in and the file format to be documented and don't want to relly on one company to support it.

      You can't buy such a thing. Hell you can't even buy such a thing that will go on a windows system.

      Sure you can, Linspire sells a licensed DVD player for Linux. And, as far as Windows, there's PowerDVD among other software players that come bundled with the purchase of a system w/DVD drive or an OEM drive. I've never purchased either where a Windows player didn't come with the DVD drive. I must be missing your point on that...

      Don't give me any such crap about stealing, I don't do p2p. I can see where people are getting quite frustrated. All I do is buy easily scratchable shiny plastic discs that I can't backup in overly bulky containers. It's no wonder people are sharing this stuff, I may go that route myself in the future.

      I can see where they are getting frustrated too, but possibly for different reasons (DRM, EULA, stupid excessive copyright restrictions, etc.). Why aren't you allowed to backup DVDs? That is within your rights under fair use as I understand it (INL). Does the DMCA trump fair use in this regard? If so, why? I don't think I'm dishing out "crap" by asking these questions, or by pointing out the obvious conclusions of the "us vs. them" mentality in the P2P arena. Look, if you aren't using P2P for illegal purposes now, it is an easy bet that you wouldn't walk into a store and abscond out the door with a stack of discs, right? Then why would you want to "go that route" yourself someday via P2P? Ethically, what is the difference? Is it really a load of crap? No, it's just harder to catch and prosecute...at the moment.

      Show me where folks like Orrin Hatch and the big media companies are advancing the arguments for further controlling OUR usage of OUR property without invoking copyright infringing P2P transactions. I don't think you'll find many instances where that isn't in the equation. My point is valid. They will continue to use this against all of us and the technologies that we freely employ today (for whatever purpose), who doubts that? It is the catch all excuse for taking more of our rights from us. Those who argue against this concept today (because they aren't getting caught...yet) are simply adding fuel to the power-grabbing fire. Like it or not.

      Frogs in the cooks pot, he slowly turns up the heat and we don't even notice until we're collectively cooked...

    5. Re:Ironic but true.. by Scarletdown · · Score: 3, Informative
      An EULA for CD audio?!


      And for years, I was under the impression that this... http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/us c_sup_01_17.html was the EULA for music and other copyrighted works.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
  29. Re:First Post by NicklessXed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was with you until that last sentence. I dont think you can judge the console division based on what the rest of the company (or part of it) is doing. Sony is huge, one part probably doesn't have the slightest idea what the others are doing at any given time. The same goes for Microsoft.

  30. Oh, for Crying Out Loud by n6kuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > ... flaws in Digital Rights Management schemes;

    DRM stands for Digital Restriction Mechanism!

    Rights are inherent. They don't need to be "managed".

    --
    If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
  31. Look on the bright side by DulcetTone · · Score: 4, Funny

    At least they don't say that you have to move out of the country if you delete the songs from your computer.

    tone

    --
    tone
  32. Derivative Works by Carcass666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    From TFA:

    Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling. The EULA forbids changing, altering, or make derivative works from the music on your computer.

    My wife is a figure skating coach and it is common for us to create short cuts of tracks (usually between 1:30 and 4:00) for use in skating programs. I'm wondering if Sony truly wants to kill the use of its music for performances such as skating, dance, etc. At any rate, it seems based on this language that her students may not be able to skate to music released under such a license. If Disney were to release such a license for its soundtracks, it would kill about 80% of the programs in lower level competitions!

  33. Maybe you can help me out here. by StarKruzr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Because I refuse to fund the RIAA but still want to ensure the artists I like are compensated for their work, I buy merch and boycott CDs off of Big 5 labels. As I understand it the RIAA does not get a cut of that money, instead it all goes to the artist (less production costs). Any idea whether or not that's true?

    --

    +++ATH0
    1. Re:Maybe you can help me out here. by c_forq · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know merch you buy at shows and such all money goes to the artist, but I've heard this isn't always the case when buying from merch from stores (but since stores will mark up prices to make a profit you are always better off buying at the shows in my experiance). Also all the money from the shows should be split between artist, venue, and oragizer (with no cut to the record industry unless they are the orginzer). I've always gone by going to shows of artists I like, buying there merch if I really like them, and only buying CDs if they are not on a major label.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  34. Not quite interpreted properly by the EFF by spectasaurus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the EFF:

    "If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music." The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.

    If I move outside one to a another country, I am now residing in the new country. I don't have to delete my music as I never exported the music outside the country which I reside. I always have to reside somewhere.

  35. EULAs by orcwog · · Score: 2, Funny

    People (even some /.ers) are somehow getting the idea that EULAs are contractual obligations. They're NOT. Once you've paid for an item, clicking "I Agree" doesn't do a single thing except let you continue using what you've paid for. This means you can do ANYTHING you want with the software/hardware provided it doesn't break existing laws (eg. copywrite).

    If it weren't so, we'd have bigger issues at hand.

  36. Learn to vote with your dollar! by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you disagree with Sony's policies, don't buy anything from them.

    It's _that_ simple.

    Until Sony is a monopoly, and you cannot buy alternative products, its really easy to get around this kind of thing. Don't buy from them.

    Don't buy Sony Computers.
    Don't buy Sony Electronics.
    Don't buy Sony Music.
    Don't buy Sony anything.

    *shrug*

    If you buy Sony products after they pull crap like this, quite frankly, you are part of the problem, not the solution, no matter how loudly you complain.

    You don't have to get your music through Sony. You don't have to get your laptop through Sony. You don't have to get your stereo through Sony.

    It's really not that hard; and sure, other people might continue to buy their stuff. That's not your problem; after all, there is _competition_ in these marketplaces, so you can safely stray away from Sony.

    --
    WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  37. Re:Nope - you added an extra logical negation by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, you distributed the NOT across the logical operations incorrectly. The original statement would've been ( !user.hasCD || !user.hasRightToMusic() ) to combine them, you would use DeMorgan's and come out with ( !(user.hasCD() && user.hasRightToMusic()) ) which says that unless you have the CD and have the right to the music, you must delete the digital copies. If someone steals the disc, they don't have the right to the music and would be in violation of the EULA if they made digital copies AND the original owner would have to delete their digital copies because they'd be in violation without the physical disc. This is probably exactly what Sony intended. If they caught you with digital copies and you don't have the original media, they could sue you for either pirating (you stole it) or violating the EULA (you were robbed and failed to delete).

  38. Getting away from making things by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful
    When our society started getting away from making things with intrinsic value and started depending on brain share products for revenue growth this was bound to happen. Since the cost of making copies of a digital work is, essentially, zero, companies trying to squeeze more revenue out of the same entertainment products had only one place to try and mine for extra income. I don't blame them for trying to go after that pool, but do blame them for the tactics they employed.

    I think the shocker for most people is waking up to find how much the playing field has been tilted in favor of the corporation against the individual. All the laws are on their side, Congress has played along with whatever draconian measures they want to dump on common people including pulling the FBI away from terror investigations to go after copyright violators, and instead of throwing out click-through EULA's the courts have tended to back them up. There is no inherent fairness in your relationship with service providers anymore, it's an uphill battle for equity. That's not limited to the entertainment industry, it's an issue here because Sony went far enough over the line. But this same unfairness is woven through all our service provider relationships.

    I am doing something besides complaining. I'm working with the leader or our state house of representatives on a couple initiatives to even out the playing field a little. One is setting a higher standard for binding arbitration. The poster child I'm using for that one is car dealers trying to skirt consumer protection laws by legislating via contract, but that would also impact click-through EULA's. The other is making it more difficult to change the state venue of laws for products and services sold and delivered in this state. That got a surprisingly warm, almost enthusiastic, reception. My presentation line was asking why we were letting North Dakota dictate how we were going to do business. That provoked the legislative equivalent of a "Hell, yeah!" But there are legal issues associated with that one I didn't know about. It's not going to be as easy to change. The good news is I didn't get laughed at.

    What surprises me is companies taking a hard line with their customers. That just seems like such a no-win proposition, even for a large, diverse company like Sony. You're looking at DVD players and like the Panasonic and Sony. What's going to make the difference? You think back on this incident and buy the Panasonic. You're making a choice between a Sony and Canon video camera, even though Sony makes the CCD's for many of the Canon models, you might go with the other brand. This small segment of that giant company taints everything they do. It can't be worth it.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  39. Re:Everybody knows... by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's okay, but it does give them cause to take you to court and squeeze a settlement out of you long before a judge gets to tell them the EULA isn't binding.

  40. if you work for the DOD read this by eadint · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you work for the DOD pleae read this.
    I will be talking to the director of IT for the base and this is what I will be discussing. Sonys installation of a root kit on home or work computers poses a serios security violation to military and DOD property. This root kit can compromise computers that may contain sensitive government data. Also most people will not place the cd in TS rated computers but they may play the cds in home computers or non TS computers where sensitive derivative works may reside. Sony is indirectly installing software on dod computers that may constitute compromising DOD clasified and sensitive information. This may be a form of treason and subversion, and because of this we should exclude and prohibit the use of all Sony CD's in their work and personall computers.

  41. Very Depressing :-( by DoctorPepper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I must agree with the poster that said he had amassed a 1,000+ CD library before copy protection and DRM started to come into play. While I don't have that many, I have quite a few. My wife and I just bought matching iPods yesterday (the 30 GB iPod Video unit), and I am currently going through this large library of CD's we OWN and am ripping them and uploading them to my iPod.

    What does this mean for Sony and other music companies? Well, I can't speak for everyone out there, but my wife and I are being very selective about the CD's we buy. If there is any copy protection what so ever, we will not buy the CD. Since it is just the two of us, I doubt if it is going to hurt any of the record companies bottom line much, but at least we have made the conscious decision to not purchase DRM'd content.

    I do feel for the younger generations that enjoy the new music. They are the ones that are going to have to fight the good fight with the record companies. My hat is off to you, and we will do what we can to help.

    --

    No matter where you go... there you are.
  42. Product Review Wiki by fossa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Question: Is there a wiki or something that has product reviews, product maker reviews (e.g. Sony == evil, in a somewhat more impartial way), product component manufactures, etc.?

    Or some easy way to research a particular product before buying it? Ideally, it'd be set up in a way that could allow searching like "DVD player that (not Sony) (ignores Macrovision) (lets me ff whenever I want) (plays PAL and NTSC) (region free)", but that sounds pretty difficult if the wiki/database covers a wide range of products.

    If done well, something like this might be able to have an impact. Nah, who am I kidding...

  43. Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The RIAA was formed in 1952 because the industry needed a standard for technology...remember the "RIAA equalization curve" for vinyl? All they did was set technical standards and certify record sales...wikipedia it for more info. That's the issue and that's why we dislike them.

    Disclaimer: I'm a broadcast professional.

  44. Information about Sony by gone.fishing · · Score: 3, Informative

    From their Web Site "Contact Us" page:

    General SONY BMG: 212-833-8000
    Arista Records: 646-840-5600
    SONY BMG U.S. Latin: 305-695-3600
    J Records: 646-840-5600
    Jive Records: 212-727-0016
    RCA Label Group Nashville: 615-301-4300
    RCA Records: 212-930-4000
    SONY BMG Corporate Press: 212-833-5047

    WHOIS INFORMATION:
    Registrant:
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor .
    New York, NY 10022
    US
    Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM

    Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
    Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
    Registrar Homepage: www.register.com

    Domain Name: sonybmg.com

    Created on..............: Tue, Jan 25, 2000
    Expires on..............: Sun, Jan 25, 2009
    Record last updated on..: Fri, Aug 19, 2005

    Administrative Contact:
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor .
    New York, NY 10022
    US
    Phone: +1.2128337305
    Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM

    Technical Contact:
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
    550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor .
    New York, NY 10022
    GB
    Phone: +1.2128337305
    Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM

    DNS Servers:

    udns1.ultradns.net
    udns2.ultradns.net

    Execuitives:

    ANDREW LACK
    CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
    SONY BMG MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT

    Andrew Lack is the founding Chief Executive Officer of Sony BMG Music Entertainment, a post he assumed in August of 2004. Sony BMG Music Entertainment is a joint venture between Sony Corporation of America and Bertelsmann AG, comprising the recorded music businesses of both companies. From January of 2003 to August of 2004, Mr. Lack served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Sony Music Entertainment.

    As CEO of Sony BMG Mr. Lack oversees all operations of the global recorded music company, which is a leading producer and marketer of pre-recorded music and video.

    Previously, Andrew Lack served as President and Chief Operating Officer for NBC since June of 2001. During his tenure with NBC he oversaw the operations of most of NBC's divisions, including Entertainment, News and MSNBC, Network, Stations, CNBC, Sales, and Broadcast & Network Operations

    From 1993 to 2001 Mr. Lack was the president of NBC News, where he transformed the News division into the most-watched news organization in the world. Today, NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw, and Meet the Press are each No. 1 in their time periods, and the primetime franchise Dateline NBC is the top newsmagazine in key sales demographic categories and a significant part of NBC's primetime program

  45. Re:Bash.org's funny quote related to Sony rootkit. by ortholattice · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the Format menu, choose Change Case, then Lowercase.

    Yeah, but then it loses its satire impact.

    I mean, what is it with lawyers and the ALL CAPS sections of EULAs? What is the criterion for making a section all caps? Does it mean the other sections really aren't that important? Does whether or not a section is in all caps affect its enforceability in court? I HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS, AND IT SEEMS NOT ONLY RUDE BUT MAKES THEM SOUND LIKE THE WEBTV IDIOTS WHO POST TO USENET.

  46. Wastepaper EULAs by Markus+Registrada · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't understand why anybody acts as if these EULA things mean anything. Under U.S. law they have no force at all. If they sold you a product that damaged your computer or data, sue them. The judge won't even let them enter the EULA in evidence.

    If you didn't get to read the EULA before you paid for the disc, it's just wastepaper. Even a button presented on-screen, "I Agree", is meaningless. (You can click those without reading them.) Under the Uniform Commercial Code, Sony has no right to place extra conditions on your use of a product you have already paid for. So, EULAs may be discarded unread, and you may click "I Agree" anywhere without actually committing yourself to anything. What remains is whatever was on the *outside* of the box that you could read before paying, and your state's implied warranty laws. Note that under many states' warranty laws, many disclaimers there are void, also.

    Caveats: (1) I'm no lawyer; (2) If you didn't pay (e.g., for a web download), then the UCC doesn't apply, and you'd better read the license carefully; (3) Maryland has rescinded its Uniform Commercial Code; and (4) The U.S. Federal 2nd Circuit's court of appeals (covering NY, CT, VT) has upheld shrink-wrap licensing in those states. If you live in MD or the 2nd Circuit then you're screwed until (in MD) you fix the law or (2nd circuit) you get the decision overturned.

  47. about time DRM gets negative attention by SlimFlem · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have to say it's about time some big corp gets uber bad attention about some f'ed up DRM scheme. Who better than Sony. What Sony did was nothing more than spyware and should be prosecuted. I don't buy cd's or dvd's anymore because of this type of crap.

  48. Re:Sony Boycott??? by PHPfanboy · · Score: 2, Informative
    How's abouts these: (from http://www.sonybmg.com/labels.html)
    • Arista Records
    • BMG Classics
    • BMG Heritage
    • BMG International Companies
    • Columbia Records
    • Epic Records
    • J Records
    • Jive Records
    • LaFace Records
    • Legacy Recordings
    • Provident Music Group
    • RCA Records
    • RCA Victor Group
    • RLG - Nashville
    • Sony Classical
    • Sony Music International
    • Sony Music Nashville
    • Sony Wonder
    • Sony Urban Music
    • So So Def Records
    • Verity Records


    Next time, you can use this great new site I found called Google. Those guys are great, they seem to know everything...
    --
    29 mpg. YMMV.
  49. Symantec's "SecurityRisk.First4DRM" removal tool by grolschie · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc /data/securityrisk.aries.html
    http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/FixR yknos.exe

  50. it runs but does not install on close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative


    When you run the application that shows the EULA, it also runs the copy protection. If you accept the EULA the software is installed, otherwise it only remains running until you reboot.

    Reboot and it will be gone.

    Please mod this up. It doesn't install unless you say yes. I would never have implemented it if it worked the way the parent post describes.

    --
    ex sunncomm developer

    1. Re:it runs but does not install on close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative


      you are an EX-employee. where is the guarantee that the current employees did not, uhm, 'improve' upon your work?

      The company was going in that direction. That's when I quit.

      I don't have a garantee, but I know FooFighters was released with mediamax, rev 3, (the same described in the halderman document). There is no 'download/update' code in rev 3, so if you have that CD, rev 3 is all you have.

  51. Update to DRM/Rootkit affecting Windows. by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I bought (yea, bite me) the DRMed Switchfoot CD for fun, and threw it into my Windows98SE machine. Upon install, the first thing it does is look for the XP registry, which it doesn't find, and edits the 98 registry. Upon rebooting, the computer totally died, going into a BSOD boot loop. Apparently, you try using this CD on anything windows except XP/2K and you're asking for a massive system failure. So now my question has become "What will happen when all those Windows 9x/ME users plug one of these discs in, and their computers all collectively get screwed?" Are we looking at potentially 90% of the computer world (or whatever percentage that runs Windows) turning around and suing Sony into absolute oblivion?

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.