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Sony's EULA Worse Than Its Rootkit?
jaaron writes "If you think the Sony rootkit is bad, check out the accompanying EULA! From the EFF's summary: 'If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. ... Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. ... Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling.'"
By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying. I'm not anti-copyright in general, but the music industry is just so evil these days.
Disclaimer: I hate Sony. Hate them, hate them, HATE them!
That said, I was a little put off by the article and suspected it was a bit hyperbolic, designed to whip the masses into an unwarranted (unwarranteed?) frenzy.
But, a funny thing happened on my way to show this critique a bit harsh. I read the actual Sony EULA. Wow! I'll still say there is a little hyperbole in the /. article but, on whole, it's
true! Holy Shit Batman (probably get a DRM ding for that!).
It's time to take SONY to the woodshed. Don't purchase anything with any SONY signature (this may require a little research, SONY makes ccd's for lots of digital cameras).
I am saddened a little more each new DRM'ed day and more thankful each day I was alive early enough to amass a comfortable 1000-CD collection of music I can freely copy, rip, etc.
I hope only better days for the X, Y, and Z generations. God Bless all of you.
(Seriously, if there were some visible and concerted effort to boycott one of these leading vendors, maybe there would be some softening of this death march to control content (most consumers, contrary to popular belief, are willing (and DO) to pay for their media, don't abuse fair use priveleges, and are NOT criminals). I can't contribute much more against SONY since I swore them off from the MiniDisk debacle -- sold all of my SONY equipment, won't buy ANY SONY equipment -- my house is as SONY-free as I've been able to make it.)
EULA's are just things nobody reads or pays any attention to that basically say the company isn't responsible for anything but that hasn't stopped them from being sued in the past so who cares about it.
Rootkits on the otherhand are dangerous to your computer and in this Sony case even caused conflicts with other problems and could disable your drive. So it's hard to compare, the rootkit seems infinitely worse to me.
I'm just not going to pay $15 for the right to listen to music in a fixed order in a certain CD player on the second Tuesday of each month between five and eight PM. The things Sony is demanding go against the concept of fair use...and I get the feeling that thi story could do just as much damage as the rootkit one did, if not more.
Goo goo g'joob.
If you think the rootkit caused a backlash, just wait.
Has anything been heard from employees of Sony's consumer products arm? By and large, they manufacture high-quality kit - they have high standards, and one assumes they can't be happy to see this coming from their music arm. Not to mention the fact that, AFAIK, Sony BMG is essentially a US company, steeped in copyright culture, whereas the consumer electronics arm remains largely Japanese and engineering-led.
do we know about the relative profitability of the two arms? Is this likely to bring forward the day when the two companies go their separate ways?
especially outside the US in places like the UK where they try and take away rights from the consumer rights act which are illegal to sign away. Also they're 'legally binding' contracts that almost always never once ask for an adult to agree. Guess what, contracts aren't valid if only signed by a minor. It's about time someone sued these companies for illegal EULAs
Heh is right.
Sony is the WORST company out there for overly tight protection and DRM.
The Minidisc NetMD could have been a fantastic product. I bought three of them (one for me, my wife, and my daughter). Too bad the software was so horrible that it became unusable.
I have had similar problems with memory stick. I have had two devices which ONLY accepted memory stick. I ended up with a camera that I could not get pictures from...thanks Sony.
The amazing thing is that people consider Microsoft to be THE 'bad' company in the console wars. I disagree...I would say that Sony is much worse.
No reason to lie.
"If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home." That's quite a misleading interpretation of what the EULA actually says. Now, I want to make it clear that I'm no fan of Sony, but that is merely someone's interpretation, not an actual part of the EULA. The EULA actually says "In the event that you no longer possess or have the right under such license to use the original CD product, your rights hereunder to use the DIGITAL CONTENT shall expire immediately." To me, it seems that if your CD is really stolen, you can still use the back-up you have. That's part of fair use, isn't it? Backups in case of fire or theft or hurricanes, etc. What the EULA is saying is that you can't rip the CD to your hard drive and then sell it on eBay, all the while keeping the ripped version. Basically, it's the idea of trying to prevent users from going to Blockbuster, renting a DVD, and then making a copy.
Yet another stupid requirement to the EULA is according to this article here: "You must delete your songs if you move out of the country or if you file for bankruptcy."
I realize this comment is now making /. violate the DMCA, so if they feel like deleting it for legal reasons, fine.
The CDs "protected" by this scheme are very easy to copy and have no "skip-gap" style protections that break normal cd-copy mechanisms and theoretically work "fine" on normal cd players (experience has shown otherwise).
cdrdao can read the cds just fine (I used it on the G3 Live in Tokyo release that just came out last week), and quickly identifies the data/file-system tracks from the main. rip with cdrdao, edit the toc file to remove the data tracks, and burn away. the resultant cdrom can load anywhere and is easily ripped into mp3s for your *legal* right to listen to music you purchase your way.
in fact, the most rediculous thing about their "protection" of the G3 cds is that for the 2-cd set, the second cd isn't even "protected" with that filesystem. protecting the 2nd disk relies directly on the root-kit hack that detects and analysis when sony cds are inserted, that SONY expects you would have installed by sticking the cd-1 in first.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
http://dewinter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=art icle&sid=215
The Sony uninstaller is an ActiveX object marked safe for scripting (which means any website can use it in their code)
Its got some wonderful entries which still leave holes in your system (like rebooting your computer, and a method called "ExecuteCode")
The guys has only just started work, but has an expliotable test together which will reboot your machine.
Look here for more info about Sony uninstallation fun.
liqbase
I, the undersigned, agree to the following terms of the use of TooMuchEspressoGuy's money (hereafter referred to as "my money") as it has been spent on Sony music products:
1) If Sony HQ, any factories, or any other property owned by employees of Sony gets burgled, you must give me back my money.
2) You cannot keep my money in your pocket at work, or in any bank or online service such as Paypal.
3) If you move out of the country, you must give me back my money.
4) You must install any and all software that I decide should be on the computers of any Sony employee, or else give me back my money.
5) I reserve the right to install any backdoors on said computers stipulated in (4) in order to enforce my rights as proper holder of my money.
6) I will never be liable to you for more than exactly $5.00 for damages to you or your property through the use of any of the rights granted to me in this EULA.
7) If you file for bankruptcy, you must give me back my money.
8) You have no right to transfer (i.e. spend) my money, even along with the original coins, dollar bills, etc.
9) You may not use my money for personal use, including but not limited to: origami; flipping coins; lighting expensive Cuban cigars; et al.
As soon as Sony agrees to this EULA, or gets rid of its own, I will begin buying Sony music again.
Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
On a related note, it looks like Microsoft have decided to add detection/removal of the Sony rootkit to Anti-Spyware (details here - though it sounds like the non-rootkit DRM part won't be touched).
the reason to legitimately purchase music is getting smaller and smaller with every one of these offenses. Sony, I will not honor your rights if you refuse to honor mine!
Ownership is only for the rich. Are you rich? You will soon only be allowed to pay for a time-limited license to use a computer. Even the "my computer" icon has been the renamed in the next windows. Guess why?
Tell your friends about xenu.net
I haven't got the full text back from my lawyer, but in future all of my transactions with Sony will be accompanied by a "vendor user license agreement":
...
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: By accepting my (hereafter: "CONSUMER") purchase of your product, you (hereafter: "VENDOR") will need to review and agree to be bound by an vendor user license agreement or "VULA", the terms and conditions of which are set forth below.
As soon as you have agreed to be bound by the terms and conditions of the VULA, this transaction will automatically install a small proprietary software program (the "SOFTWARE") into YOUR BOOKKEEPING SYSTEM.
...
From time to time CONSUMER will use the SOFTWARE to enforce his statutory rights, including checking the validity of any data held on him and updating it as he deems fit and in accordance with relevant privacy and data protection laws.
...
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
Music Label: We grant ourselves the authority to do anything we want inside or outside your house, to you and your family, with or without notice, including but not limited to: erasing your wedding photos, replacing all your music with Milli Vanilli's Greatest hits, recording you singing in the shower, ruining your kid's christmas, getting you fired from your job, anally raping your poodle with a steel toothbrush, and force-feeding you your own dead grandmother's ashes. You hereby agree to hold Music Label harmless and you expressly waive all rights to damages, compensatory and punitive, arising from Music Label's actions.
Joe Consumer: What is a rootkit? Is it dangero---WHOA NEW ALBUM ADVERTISED AT ME! MUST BUY IT NOW!!! MUST BUY IT NOW!!!
But at least most software producers understands the relationship between the paying customer and the company that depends on those customers. Even MS has gotten some sense by allowing copies of software to be stored on multiple devices. This is in sharp constrast to the music industry that seems to belive they could exist without customers. I mean deleting music off a harddisk is not that big a deal, but why force the situation. I mean, sure, if one sells a CD one should delete all copies, but why make a victim pay twice? I mean if you just lost all your possesions, except for the few items that were with you, is the music industry going to begrudge you a few copies. If all your money it tied up rebuilding a life after being violated, are they really going to sue you for damages?
It is so absurd, it is hard to properly reduce. Perhaps asking a women who raped at a dance to pay for the repairs for the dress she rented. Which might happen, but it would be a pretty heartless company.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Sony: Worse than Microsoft?
My friend sent me this bash.org quote link.
/. didn't like the uppercase: "Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! :(
I would had copy and pasted in here, but
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING." and I am lazy to lowercase them manually, and EULA is all CAPS.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
If you accidentally left a CD at a relative's house you're no longer in possession of it but I think legally you might still be entitled to listen to it on your ipod, even if you can't get it back for a couple of week's 'cos he/she's on holiday...
The whole point of fair use laws is so that you can make backup copies in case something happens to the original. You have every legal right to make a copy of a cd and microwave the original if you so wish.
---------- Open Source is capitalism applied to IP.
You are wrong, if someone steals your CD you must delete the copy. If you read the statement you will notice it uses OR, not AND like you seem to think. The use of OR actually makes that one statement two seperate ones. The statement "In the event that you no longer possess or have the right under such license to use the original CD product." can be rewritten as two seperate statements, "In the event that you no longer possess the original CD product." and "In the event that you no longer have the right under such license to use the original CD product." If the CD is stolen you no longer possess the original CD product therefore that clause is triggered.
So, if you no longer possess the CD (house burns down), then you lose the right to use the original "content," and if you lose the right under such license, you also lose the right (very redundant).
I think what they are doing is covering the "well my CD got stolen, so I just downloaded it off of edonkey and burned it onto a blank CD" excuse.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Has anything been heard from employees of Sony's consumer products arm? By and large, they manufacture high-quality kit - they have high standards
Good one!
So you are allowed to make backups of your CD's for safety (traditional fair use),
but now if you ever actually need to use those backups because you sat on your original CD, Sony says you must destroy them too. Nice.
Get used to using the word "info-feudalism", for that is what the corporations are creating. Think about it: under feudalism, the lord owned the land, the serfs worked on the land, and the serfs were not allowed to move away if they didn't like the deal.
Under info-feudalism:
Large corporations bribe legislatures to expand "intellectual property" to include many, many things that used to be open to all;
Government spends your money on basic drug research, but drug companies patent the results;
Copyright gets extended again and again so that works no longer pass into the public domain after the creator dies;
Your DNA gets patented by someone else without your say-so; authors patent story lines (!), corporations apply for ridiculously broad patents in an attempt to control what others can and cannot invent;
Police arrest scientists who publish papers on flaws in Digital Rights Management schemes;
You buy a song or a movie but never really own it;
Fair Use quotations are legally doubtful;
Crooked churches sue their critics because their 'bibles' are copyrighted;
Governments tell lies such as "piracy helps the terrorists;
News media are corrupted by their connection to cash-cow entertainment conglomerates;
And it's not like any of them truly invented the ideas all by themselves; all of society indirectly helped; yet they rob all of society by seeking monopoly. Oh, I could go on and on.
See this demolition of the whole idea of "Intellectual Property":
http://deoxy.org/aip.htm
http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/contrac t_law/binding_contract.htm
From the above link to confirm what I recall in a college Business Law course, a contract such as this EULA would require three elements; (1) Competent Parties, (2) Consideration and (3) Mutual Assent or Meeting of the Minds.
So, for item (1), most of us technically inclined individuals would believe they are not competent since they have written up such an insulting agreement. (2) I'm stretching here, but suppose someone bought me a CD of music, then there would be consideration between the original purchaser and Sony so that's been met, but for (3), there's a snowballs chance in hell that anyone who reads and understands that EULA would agree to it.
For me, I'll just substitute my own reality for theirs should I be interested in any musician they try and push down my throat.
As far as i can tell, these are merely statements with no force of law.
I think they're mixing two things together
1. The DRM software on the CD
2. The audio tracks on the CD
There is no EULA that applies to the audio tracks on any CD. If I disagree with their EULA, all it means is that I disagree to use their software to manage my experience. Unless I'm way off base* my reading of the EULA doesn't suggest otherwise.
They use CAPITAL LETTERS to make sure we know that the license we're being 'granted' is to
1(a). "install one (1) copy of software"
1(b). "install one (1) copy of any approved media player(s) contained on this CD"
1(c). use the software and any approved media player(s)
*I know the collective genius of
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Certainly if you don't care for the EULA then you ought to stop purchasing their CDs. But you can also stop purchasing their hardware as well. Stop buying their DVD players, CD players, Computers, Camcorders, Digital Cameras, etc. There are better alternatives. Just hit them where it hurts, essentially. This is, of course, just a suggestion.
Nonsense. If your property (the physical CDs, or your licence to their contents) is stolen it's still yours, legally you still possess it. A thief's possession of your property is illegal, and you haven't entered an agreement with the thief to transfer "the right under such licence" to him.
EFF has apparently become the new Slashduh, and I'm disappointed in them.
I am so glad that I don't have any DRMed music (used to use itunes to donwload songs, but I used JHymn to convert the protected files to unprotected MP3's) because it seems like the music industry is trying to screw all fo the consumers (like us) over!
Consumers don't realize how bad for them all this DRM and "Trusted" Computing stuff is. They don't realize that it will take away their fair use rights, and their freedom to use the stuff they bought and paid for however they want, and give those rights and freedoms directly to large corporations that treat consumers as the enemy.
Spread this meme: INFECTED WITH DRM.
Those three words carry *exactly* the connotation we want: DRM is bad, consumers need protection from DRM, and if DRM is not stopped it will eventually spread to all our consumer devices like a plague and then we are fucked.
We have to make consumers CARE about this issue before they will stop giving their entertainment dollars to Sony and the RIAA and the Disneys of the world. So spread this meme. It's a loaded phrase, which is good--we must provoke an emotional response from consumers who are otherwise indifferent about this issue, even though it will affect them greatly if they don't oppose it.
I don't want to wake up 10 years from now and be living in a technological dark-age. So spread this meme.
By now I really think it's gotten to the point that it's more unethical to give money to a company like this than to download their music without paying.
It is ironic but true that your computer is now safer to download pirate copys of entertainment than to buy the authentic thing. WTF was Sony/BMG thinking? Most of us are honest!!
Do keep in mind this tech can also be delivered on DVDs. Although I don't believe it has been done to the masses yet, there is no reason why it couldn't be on a DVD.
And I for one would have never thought to read the EULA verbose legal microprint to see if it would rootkit my PC. Fortunately I never put the BMG ones I have in my PC.
Which makes me think this industry just shot itself in the foot.
IANAL but it would seem...
By putting in such goofy restrictions in their EULA, and people suing Sony for the damage they've caused it will force the issue of how lawful EULA's are.
It's a lose lose situation. If they WIN because a judge upholds the EULA then there will be an outcry about EULAs.
If they lose then basically the idea that you can put any restriction or clause that you want into an EULA will be proven bogus.
Isn't it so that you have to actually agree to an EULA for it to have actual value ?
When you buy the cd, do you sign an EULA ? No. You buy it. The transaction has been made (andf the store claims to sell you a cd, not the right to listen it, no, at that point in time you have made an agreement with the store owner that you OWN that cd ) . Then you get home and find a little peace of paper in the cd cover that claims to be an EULA... how can that possibly be valid ? Nowhere in the transaction of the cd have you made ANY arrangement with the record company. Heck, they aren't even involved in the whole transaction.
The Dutch will inherit the earth. If not, we'll settle for a bit of ocean. Beta delenda est!
I was with you until that last sentence. I dont think you can judge the console division based on what the rest of the company (or part of it) is doing. Sony is huge, one part probably doesn't have the slightest idea what the others are doing at any given time. The same goes for Microsoft.
This is funny, Sony Music is trying hard to make it difficult for consumers to use Sony Electronics minidisc, mp3-players, laptops etc to listen to music.
Let's see what Sony Pictures will come up with hurting Sony Electronics sales of dvd-burners, laptops etc.
OK, maybe this is a stupid question, maybe it's been asked before and discussed ad nauseam. I don't know if it has. But why don't we simply stop buying CDs from these guys? Even better - why don't we buy only from recording companies/distributors/artists who put it in writing that they will respect our basic rights as we see them? We could use the web or even peer-to-peer to spread the word around about who's "music lover friendly" and who isn't. Thoughts?
if( ! (user.hasCD() || user.hasRightToMusic()) {
deleteCopies = true;
}
else {
deleteCopies = false;
}
Implications:
Sony's statement does make sense.
Cheers,
Ian
...the 4th Amendment to the Constitution prohibits revoking the right of a trial by jury....
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State"
hmmmm, I guess if that part of the EULA is invaled, is the rest of it really enforceable?
> ... flaws in Digital Rights Management schemes;
DRM stands for Digital Restriction Mechanism!
Rights are inherent. They don't need to be "managed".
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167537&cid =13973438
Every post I make begins with the assumption P=~P.
At least they don't say that you have to move out of the country if you delete the songs from your computer.
tone
tone
It has been shown in too many occasions that where the EULA has been an issue in a court case, that court opinion and/or law often makes the terms and conditions somewhat irrelevant especially since no one reads them and it's quite understood that the average consumer simply doesn't. The only way around it is to have someone come to you and have you actually SIGN a contract before you use software. That isn't going to happen.
And with the recent government response to the Sony rootkit, I think it's fairly obvious where the lines are being drawn.
So now, more than ever before, EULA content is becoming irrelevant. So now I wonder what will become the instrument of change to get rid of the EULA?
Quick and easy solution for you:
(1) Copy and Paste into OpenOffice Writer.
(2) Highlight the text.
(3) From the Format menu, choose Change Case, then Lowercase.
Voila!
From TFA:
My wife is a figure skating coach and it is common for us to create short cuts of tracks (usually between 1:30 and 4:00) for use in skating programs. I'm wondering if Sony truly wants to kill the use of its music for performances such as skating, dance, etc. At any rate, it seems based on this language that her students may not be able to skate to music released under such a license. If Disney were to release such a license for its soundtracks, it would kill about 80% of the programs in lower level competitions!
I've looked around Sony-BMG's site for a while (although not really extensively) I haven't actually seen anything indicating that they care what the customer thinks, let alone a way to provide feedback. I'd make complaining part of my morning routine if they had some sort of "tell us what you think" form or forum and if I thought it'd actually do any good. Not that I think it would. They've proved what their priorities are. It's sad that the music industry have gotten so far from "the customer is always right." Now it's "the consumer is a peice of crap and is not to be trusted." Oh well, at least I've got allofmp3.com.
Because I refuse to fund the RIAA but still want to ensure the artists I like are compensated for their work, I buy merch and boycott CDs off of Big 5 labels. As I understand it the RIAA does not get a cut of that money, instead it all goes to the artist (less production costs). Any idea whether or not that's true?
+++ATH0
From the EFF:
"If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music." The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.
If I move outside one to a another country, I am now residing in the new country. I don't have to delete my music as I never exported the music outside the country which I reside. I always have to reside somewhere.
I dissagree, I think you missed a parenthesis in your interpretation of the text (of course I can't be sure, I don't speak legaleese). The phrase "In the event" is not repeated so if we put parentheses it would probably be "In the event that you (no longer( possess [the cd] or have the right under such license to use the original CD product))."
Formally this should be writtenwhich is equivalent toIf the cd is stolen then possess is false but have_right is still true (I guess). So the hole formula is false, no clause is triggered!
But that's a fine exampe why EULAs should not stand in any court. They are very ambiguous texts and no individual should be required to understand them. And of course the whole sony story is just ridiculus, we don't need fine interpretations of EULA clauses to understand that.
By reading this post you agree to send me (NVP_Radical_Dreamer) funds in the amount of $10.00 USD. If you do not like this, too bad you have already read it and it cannot be returned.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
People (even some /.ers) are somehow getting the idea that EULAs are contractual obligations. They're NOT. Once you've paid for an item, clicking "I Agree" doesn't do a single thing except let you continue using what you've paid for. This means you can do ANYTHING you want with the software/hardware provided it doesn't break existing laws (eg. copywrite).
If it weren't so, we'd have bigger issues at hand.
a) pirate
or
b) rip CD's by using Linux, Mac OS X, or Windows with autorun turned off
PART 2
When CD's are obsolete be switched over to independent music for almost all new stuff. Good artists don't need the RIAA anymore.
If you disagree with Sony's policies, don't buy anything from them.
It's _that_ simple.
Until Sony is a monopoly, and you cannot buy alternative products, its really easy to get around this kind of thing. Don't buy from them.
Don't buy Sony Computers.
Don't buy Sony Electronics.
Don't buy Sony Music.
Don't buy Sony anything.
*shrug*
If you buy Sony products after they pull crap like this, quite frankly, you are part of the problem, not the solution, no matter how loudly you complain.
You don't have to get your music through Sony. You don't have to get your laptop through Sony. You don't have to get your stereo through Sony.
It's really not that hard; and sure, other people might continue to buy their stuff. That's not your problem; after all, there is _competition_ in these marketplaces, so you can safely stray away from Sony.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
what right did you have before the EULA to keep copies of the CD after you no longer possessed it?
In Canada, this is expressly coded into copyright law. If you make a copy, then give (or even sell!) the original, you are legally entitled to keep the copy (although you are not allowed to make a copy of the copy.)
Any EULA filled with newspeak lawerease and babble
Including excessive wording 300 words or above.
Is not consummer friendly.
they should just say...
"IF YOU AGGREE TO THIS EULA WE OWN YOU AND YOUR SOUL"
why not keep it simple and to the point
Stealing music still doesn't make this right. Why would you continue to purchase ANY products from a company with a EULA of this type?
I think the shocker for most people is waking up to find how much the playing field has been tilted in favor of the corporation against the individual. All the laws are on their side, Congress has played along with whatever draconian measures they want to dump on common people including pulling the FBI away from terror investigations to go after copyright violators, and instead of throwing out click-through EULA's the courts have tended to back them up. There is no inherent fairness in your relationship with service providers anymore, it's an uphill battle for equity. That's not limited to the entertainment industry, it's an issue here because Sony went far enough over the line. But this same unfairness is woven through all our service provider relationships.
I am doing something besides complaining. I'm working with the leader or our state house of representatives on a couple initiatives to even out the playing field a little. One is setting a higher standard for binding arbitration. The poster child I'm using for that one is car dealers trying to skirt consumer protection laws by legislating via contract, but that would also impact click-through EULA's. The other is making it more difficult to change the state venue of laws for products and services sold and delivered in this state. That got a surprisingly warm, almost enthusiastic, reception. My presentation line was asking why we were letting North Dakota dictate how we were going to do business. That provoked the legislative equivalent of a "Hell, yeah!" But there are legal issues associated with that one I didn't know about. It's not going to be as easy to change. The good news is I didn't get laughed at.
What surprises me is companies taking a hard line with their customers. That just seems like such a no-win proposition, even for a large, diverse company like Sony. You're looking at DVD players and like the Panasonic and Sony. What's going to make the difference? You think back on this incident and buy the Panasonic. You're making a choice between a Sony and Canon video camera, even though Sony makes the CCD's for many of the Canon models, you might go with the other brand. This small segment of that giant company taints everything they do. It can't be worth it.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
IIRC, for several years now, Sony seems to have been trying to stretch the meaning of this word to include any entertainment content they sell, on any medium.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
That's okay, but it does give them cause to take you to court and squeeze a settlement out of you long before a judge gets to tell them the EULA isn't binding.
if (! (user.hasCD() || user.hasRightToMusic())
should be
if (!(user.hasCD() && user.hasRightToMusic()))
This is an application De Morgan's Laws. The EULA states if NOT A or NOT B (i.e., if you do NOT have the CD or do NOT have the right to listen to the CD, then you must delete the copies. De Morgan tells us that NOT A || NOT B is equivalent to NOT(A && B) instead of NOT(A OR B).
Given that we nerds as a group have next to no power against the dollars Sony could throw against us, I propose something a little different: we egg them on. People who play music on PC are a fringe group really. The average joe music listener is never going to listen to what we say, they'll keep buying music from Sony. So if we crank up the pirating a notch, Sony will squeeze out more and more restrictive DRM crap. The goal is to get it to such an extent that average joe suddenly notices that they can't play their new cds without a net connected Sony player that connects to drm.sony.com each track you play...
While I can understand the need for drm in theory, in practice it should be utterly transparent to the consumer, not pervasive and restricting.
If you work for the DOD pleae read this.
I will be talking to the director of IT for the base and this is what I will be discussing. Sonys installation of a root kit on home or work computers poses a serios security violation to military and DOD property. This root kit can compromise computers that may contain sensitive government data. Also most people will not place the cd in TS rated computers but they may play the cds in home computers or non TS computers where sensitive derivative works may reside. Sony is indirectly installing software on dod computers that may constitute compromising DOD clasified and sensitive information. This may be a form of treason and subversion, and because of this we should exclude and prohibit the use of all Sony CD's in their work and personall computers.
The spyware that Sony installs on the computers of music fans does not even seem to be correct in terms of copyright law.
t icle&sid=215.
It turns out that the rootkit contains pieces of code that are identical to LAME, an open source mp3-encoder, and thereby breach the license
http://dewinter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=ar
I must agree with the poster that said he had amassed a 1,000+ CD library before copy protection and DRM started to come into play. While I don't have that many, I have quite a few. My wife and I just bought matching iPods yesterday (the 30 GB iPod Video unit), and I am currently going through this large library of CD's we OWN and am ripping them and uploading them to my iPod.
What does this mean for Sony and other music companies? Well, I can't speak for everyone out there, but my wife and I are being very selective about the CD's we buy. If there is any copy protection what so ever, we will not buy the CD. Since it is just the two of us, I doubt if it is going to hurt any of the record companies bottom line much, but at least we have made the conscious decision to not purchase DRM'd content.
I do feel for the younger generations that enjoy the new music. They are the ones that are going to have to fight the good fight with the record companies. My hat is off to you, and we will do what we can to help.
No matter where you go... there you are.
What follows of course has no legal standing and is only the absurd ranting of a completely unimportant and unidentified person who has no power to influence, in any way, anybody who might affect Sony financially.
. This is a clear case where a large company has deliberately attempted to get people to install software on their computers which reduces, however trivially, their control over their computers. They have attempted to back this up with a licence agreement which places absurd restrictions on the end user, such as appearing to transfer the right to use of CD content to a thief. And they have done this in an effort to prevent the normal flow of technological progress. This is the smoking gun for FOSS advocates: evidence to support the idea that a large corporation may not be merely clumsy and incompetent in its relations with its customers but actually malicious in its desire to gain control over them. A thoughtful CIO might see this as making the case for adopting solutions that involve a real degree of mutuality between supplier and customer.
Pining for the fjords
a) PS 3
b) Xbox 360
c) Nintendo
Nintendo is the best for children. But kids wants to play GTA San Adreas and ground ups didn't have a clue about video games. So they are going to buy Sony PS3 or Microsoft XBox 360.
So masses are going to buy the worst option available.
My city: Barcelona.
ARE THEY SERIOUS??? why not install a trojan and give them complete control of what we do? or Better yet lets call and ask for permission to install 3rd party software.
Question: Is there a wiki or something that has product reviews, product maker reviews (e.g. Sony == evil, in a somewhat more impartial way), product component manufactures, etc.?
Or some easy way to research a particular product before buying it? Ideally, it'd be set up in a way that could allow searching like "DVD player that (not Sony) (ignores Macrovision) (lets me ff whenever I want) (plays PAL and NTSC) (region free)", but that sounds pretty difficult if the wiki/database covers a wide range of products.
If done well, something like this might be able to have an impact. Nah, who am I kidding...
The RIAA was formed in 1952 because the industry needed a standard for technology...remember the "RIAA equalization curve" for vinyl? All they did was set technical standards and certify record sales...wikipedia it for more info. That's the issue and that's why we dislike them.
Disclaimer: I'm a broadcast professional.
How can Sony Music forbid MP3 ripping, when Sony Electronics sells MP3 players?
Insane.
---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
It appears that Sony have suspended production of the CDs infected with DRM:.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4430608.stm
The only way to stop this type of control is to hit them where it hurts, the bottom line.
BOYCOT !!! BOYCOT !!!
Lets make them pay for there actions. Don't buy sony music, pass this information on to all friends and family.
From their Web Site "Contact Us" page:
.
.
.
General SONY BMG: 212-833-8000
Arista Records: 646-840-5600
SONY BMG U.S. Latin: 305-695-3600
J Records: 646-840-5600
Jive Records: 212-727-0016
RCA Label Group Nashville: 615-301-4300
RCA Records: 212-930-4000
SONY BMG Corporate Press: 212-833-5047
WHOIS INFORMATION:
Registrant:
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor
New York, NY 10022
US
Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM
Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com
Domain Name: sonybmg.com
Created on..............: Tue, Jan 25, 2000
Expires on..............: Sun, Jan 25, 2009
Record last updated on..: Fri, Aug 19, 2005
Administrative Contact:
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor
New York, NY 10022
US
Phone: +1.2128337305
Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM
Technical Contact:
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
Sony Music Entertainment Corporation
550 Madison Avenue, Sixth Floor
New York, NY 10022
GB
Phone: +1.2128337305
Email: mis_online@SONYMUSIC.COM
DNS Servers:
udns1.ultradns.net
udns2.ultradns.net
Execuitives:
ANDREW LACK
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
SONY BMG MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT
Andrew Lack is the founding Chief Executive Officer of Sony BMG Music Entertainment, a post he assumed in August of 2004. Sony BMG Music Entertainment is a joint venture between Sony Corporation of America and Bertelsmann AG, comprising the recorded music businesses of both companies. From January of 2003 to August of 2004, Mr. Lack served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Sony Music Entertainment.
As CEO of Sony BMG Mr. Lack oversees all operations of the global recorded music company, which is a leading producer and marketer of pre-recorded music and video.
Previously, Andrew Lack served as President and Chief Operating Officer for NBC since June of 2001. During his tenure with NBC he oversaw the operations of most of NBC's divisions, including Entertainment, News and MSNBC, Network, Stations, CNBC, Sales, and Broadcast & Network Operations
From 1993 to 2001 Mr. Lack was the president of NBC News, where he transformed the News division into the most-watched news organization in the world. Today, NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw, and Meet the Press are each No. 1 in their time periods, and the primetime franchise Dateline NBC is the top newsmagazine in key sales demographic categories and a significant part of NBC's primetime program
You're new here, aren't you?
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Just let the music industry die.. They deserve it.
If thieves are going to go to the trouble of copying mp3s from your laptop, why wouldn't they just steal the laptop itself?
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
This is all well and good getting upset about the Sony EULA, however, personally speaking I ignore those. How exactly are they going to enforce it? Should I buy a Sony BMG label CD (which I'd hope would be a rare occasion anyway), then I'm going to damn well use it exactly how I choose to. And that means ripping it to MP3 and taking it to work, taking it with me to whichever country I plan to reside in or whatever else the EULA says I can't do, should I need or wish to. So tell me, how are Sony going to stop me doing so?
The primary purpose of this EULA is to protect Sony from being sued by the artists. As was already noted, this agreement pertains to the use of Sony software included on the CD. If you don't like the EULA terms, then don't use the software - its spyware-infested crap anyway.
Nevertheless, this EULA is a blatant attempt by Sony to rob consumers of their legal rights. Something should be done by all of us on an individual basis. Boycotting Sony products is a good idea, but such a boycott does not need to be all-inclusive. Face it; you can only buy PlayStation from Sony. The whole point is to make Sony suffer - not you. So buy the PS3 when it comes out, if you really must; but you certainly don't need to buy Sony laptops, DVD players, TVs, etc. There are alternatives and in many cases - better alternatives.
Yeah, but then it loses its satire impact.
I mean, what is it with lawyers and the ALL CAPS sections of EULAs? What is the criterion for making a section all caps? Does it mean the other sections really aren't that important? Does whether or not a section is in all caps affect its enforceability in court? I HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS, AND IT SEEMS NOT ONLY RUDE BUT MAKES THEM SOUND LIKE THE WEBTV IDIOTS WHO POST TO USENET.
Sony, I had ordered a Camcorder from them after a lot of research. Going by their shitty attitude I just cancelled the order.
They have a parental advisory notice at the bottom-right corner of the page:
http://www.riaa.com/default.asp
Yes, kids can go unhappy after reading how many years they'll have to spend in jail after trading a Britney Spears CD for a box of bubble-gum.
Why should Sony expect us to respect their EULAs when they disrespect consumers by secretly installing root kits on unknowning user's computers!
Does't this EULA violate fair-use laws and other state/federal laws making at the very least those clauses void?
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
OK, so, to boycott Sony I'm assuming Sony or BMG is written on the CD we are trying to buy? Is there any other name or subsidiary I need to be aware of?
Oh for the love of sanity, PLEASE, NO!
That show was a steaming pile of crap back when my step-brother use to watch it on TV. There's no way they're going to make it any better. I'd rather watch Britney try to sing the blues. (If somebody provides a link of Britney singing the blues, I'm deleting my slashdot account)
"That's so plausible, I can't believe it!" - Leela
Most of the arguments here seemed based on the pretense that EULAs are binding contracts, which legal precedent seems to indicate they are not.
"By using this product you agree to..." is a generic moniker that could be attached to any product. I mean why not? In that case the EULA would supersede and trump all other laws, which is obviously absurd. EULAs can be safely ignored and disregarded, provided you follow existing laws, ie, in Canada, if I crack DRM to rip a CD to mp3s, that's Sony's Problem (tm).
"Look at you, Consumer. A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you buy what I tell you. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" ;-)
Spine World
**** THE PROOF THAT RIAA/MPAA IS EVIL ****
R I A A M P A A
18 9 1 1 13 16 1 1 - as numbers
9 9 1 1 4 7 1 1 - digits added
\_____/ \_____/ \_____/ \_____/
9 2 2 2 - digits added
Thus, "RIAAMPAA" is 9222.
Add 1995, the year O J Simpson was acquitted for double murder - the result is 11217.
Add 661 to it - this is the year Roman Empire was devastated by a plague, written backwards - you will get 11878.
Subtract 6861 from the number - this is the year Newton published wildly misunderstood "Principia", written backwards. It gives 5017.
Subtract 1351 from the number - this is the year Richard Roose was conveniently boiled to death for trying to poison an archbishop, written backwards. It gives 3666.
Subtract 1876, the year first crematorium in the United States opened. The result will be 1790.
The number 1790 is the year US patent system was established (eevil).
This clearly proves how evil the subject is. QED.
Courtesy of Evilfinder:
http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/evilfinder/ef.shtml
Most men are not thought unwise until they speak.
This sounds like a good system. I bought a t-shirt from England for $35 USD because of shipping and the exchange rate, but it was worth it to have a t-shirt hardly anyone here will have for an awesome band hardly anyone knows about :D
If this makes me an indie fuck, fine, then I will fuck bravely onward.
+++ATH0
IANAL, but it seems as if this contract (EULA) is null and void as soon as you agree to it. This EULA, in the interest of "enforcing" the DMCA and "protecting" $ony, removes from the purchaser rights like "fair use" guaranteed in old copyright law and reaffirmed in the DMCA! IMHO, as the contract represented by the EULA is in violation of the law, it therefore voids itself, does it not? Perhaps someone else could weigh in on this, who knows more about this than me.
There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
I don't understand why anybody acts as if these EULA things mean anything. Under U.S. law they have no force at all. If they sold you a product that damaged your computer or data, sue them. The judge won't even let them enter the EULA in evidence.
If you didn't get to read the EULA before you paid for the disc, it's just wastepaper. Even a button presented on-screen, "I Agree", is meaningless. (You can click those without reading them.) Under the Uniform Commercial Code, Sony has no right to place extra conditions on your use of a product you have already paid for. So, EULAs may be discarded unread, and you may click "I Agree" anywhere without actually committing yourself to anything. What remains is whatever was on the *outside* of the box that you could read before paying, and your state's implied warranty laws. Note that under many states' warranty laws, many disclaimers there are void, also.
Caveats: (1) I'm no lawyer; (2) If you didn't pay (e.g., for a web download), then the UCC doesn't apply, and you'd better read the license carefully; (3) Maryland has rescinded its Uniform Commercial Code; and (4) The U.S. Federal 2nd Circuit's court of appeals (covering NY, CT, VT) has upheld shrink-wrap licensing in those states. If you live in MD or the 2nd Circuit then you're screwed until (in MD) you fix the law or (2nd circuit) you get the decision overturned.
I found a way to get my optical drives back after removing the SONY rootkit without reinstalling the OS! You are going to kick yourselves after I tell you. Reinstall the CDROM drivers and check the Device Manager to make sure the IDE Channel dosen't have an error tag. If it does let Windows reinstall the driver for you and viola your optical drives are yours again!
spare a thought for us living in countries where copying music from any form to another is prohibited by law.
Sony are trying to say that they permit copying (they have to in the US, under Fair Use), but you'd better keep your masters in a really safe place.
Restrictive and archaic? Yes.
Unreasonable? Not necessarily.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I have to say it's about time some big corp gets uber bad attention about some f'ed up DRM scheme. Who better than Sony. What Sony did was nothing more than spyware and should be prosecuted. I don't buy cd's or dvd's anymore because of this type of crap.
Now, if I understand correctly, there is little to no way to tell if one of these CDs are the Fun DRM'd, rootkit, privacy-killing variety by simply looking at the packaging.
So my question is, if I buy the CD, get this Crap-tastic EULA, and decide I do not want to accept it, can I simply click no, or decline or whatever, and return the CD?
I would imagine that there has to be SOME way to get your money back if you decide to not accept the terms. Any lawyers, or people who fancy them selves as such who can answer this question?
Agreed. EULA is meant to have those crazy CAPS! There was a reason why it was like that.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Or you could just install and run linux on your harddrive.
You forgot the sarcasm tag, or maybe you just haven't read anything on /. except this thread. I'll assume the latter is true so I'll spell it out for you:
Don't buy Microsoft Games.
Don't buy Microsoft Software.
Don't buy Microsoft Hardware.
This has been a message from the /. hive mind, thank you for your time.
...I am lazy to lowercase them manually...
Copy and paste it into Word, select the text and press shift+F3.
How can they expect these sorts of things to hold up in court when it is _largely_ ineffective?
I doubt that average Joe is going to even read all that crap, let alone do as he is told in the EULA. Can they really expect that people could be held liable if noone pays attention to it?
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Thanks. Isn't there a menu item for this? There's no way I can remember all these hot keys. ;)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Its being repeated again and again, and people are actually taking it seriously.
Calm down, people, the EULA is just a piece of paper, or a dialog box, void of any legal meaning.
"So they are going to buy Sony PS3 or Microsoft XBox 360."
They might try, but when they see $400 for either of those, they might think twice.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Ummm... you know who Pastor Martin Niemöller was talking about with that quote, don't you?
General SONY BMG: 212-833-8000
:-)
Arista Records: 646-840-5600
SONY BMG U.S. Latin: 305-695-3600
J Records: 646-840-5600
Jive Records: 212-727-0016
RCA Label Group Nashville: 615-301-4300
RCA Records: 212-930-4000
SONY BMG Corporate Press: 212-833-5047
London: 020 7384 7500 and 020 7835 5344
Ireland: + 353 (0)1 647 3400
Online feedback forms:
Sony Canada
Sony Australia
Sony New Zealand
Find a Sony site in your country
BTW, the SonyMusicAsia domain has now expired. LOL.
http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form14.html
I'd rather watch Britney try to sing the blues. (If somebody provides a link of Britney singing the blues, I'm deleting my slashdot account)
Not truly part of the blues genre, but getting there: Oops I Did It Again
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc /data/securityrisk.aries.html R yknos.exe
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/Fix
When you run the application that shows the EULA, it also runs the copy protection. If you accept the EULA the software is installed, otherwise it only remains running until you reboot.
Reboot and it will be gone.
Please mod this up. It doesn't install unless you say yes. I would never have implemented it if it worked the way the parent post describes.
--
ex sunncomm developer
It is worded as 'possess' not 'own'. The thief posesses the cd, despite the fact that you own the cd. And even if that wasn't thier intent, it's legalese, and therefore interpereted by the courts as meaning EXACTLY what it says. It might be nonsense, but only because the eula is nonsense, not because it was incorrectly interpereted.
No, that doesn't work. If someone steals something from you then it is still yours, I doesn't matter who has it or what they do with it, legally it is still yours so even if you don't have physical possesion, you still have the rights to the possesion.
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
Back when I first got into computer gaming I bought this terrible cd case to hold my games. Inevatably this crappy case cracked my new Age of Empires cd I had just paid $50 for. Without the cd I could no longer play the game. I tried taking it back to the store but they said my 15-day return window had passed. I thought about buying another one and putting the broken disc in the new box and returning it, but found out you can't return computer software. Their was an email address that came with the cd if you had problems. So I emailed them (microsoft) and told them what happened. I told them I had the reciept and the cracked cd and would gladly send them both if I could get a replacement disc. I sent them multiple emails but they only sent auto-generated replies of no help at all. I discovered the only way to fix my crack problem was with a crack. I was just a joe public consumer until this happened. If it wasn't for their lack of help to a paying customer I would have never even known about cracks. Like Princess Leia said, "The more they tighten their grip, the more consumers slip throught their fingers"
If sonys drma cd's contain GPL material(from Lame). Then haven't they been very nice to us and GPL'd the entire cd. They seem to make no distinction between the audio of the cd and the program ( You were sold an audio cd not a peice of software ). But without paying for a licence agreement to use the LGPL with Lame, then it would seem to me that the whole cd is able to be used without restriction as long as these rights are passed on.
Can someone get back to me on this, I need some humor today and this would make me rofl!
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
This is interesting information. The machine I own that was rootkitted is a media center PC and is not often rebooted. It will be back from repairs tomorrow and I will test this out. I never would have thought that a reboot would remedy a problem like garbled CD rips. Such is Windows and DRM.
Thanks to the parent AC for clearing this up. We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
I bought (yea, bite me) the DRMed Switchfoot CD for fun, and threw it into my Windows98SE machine. Upon install, the first thing it does is look for the XP registry, which it doesn't find, and edits the 98 registry. Upon rebooting, the computer totally died, going into a BSOD boot loop. Apparently, you try using this CD on anything windows except XP/2K and you're asking for a massive system failure. So now my question has become "What will happen when all those Windows 9x/ME users plug one of these discs in, and their computers all collectively get screwed?" Are we looking at potentially 90% of the computer world (or whatever percentage that runs Windows) turning around and suing Sony into absolute oblivion?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The $10+ we pay for a CD isn't for the media cost. The cost of a mass produced CD is below $1. We are paying for the right to listen to the music. The problem is that the physical CD is seen as the embodyment of this right, If the physical CD is taken we can't prove we have a right to play the music. Now if the thief was charged with the violation, that would be justice. If we payed for the vinal, what can't we just pay a media cost for the upgrade to CD, and if the CD gets scratch, can't we just pay for media replacement
How will they control sales of used games?
I thought the DEFINITION of having a backup is that you are allowed to use it when the original gets fscked.
So if the original CD is lost, or stolen (ex: stolen from your car), then you SHOULD be able to use your copies. That is why it is called a BACKUP
As far as I'm concerned, Sony is Sony and all divisions thereof are tarred with the same brush. I refuse to buy Sony CDs or anything else with the Sony name on it until they come to their senses. For one thing, who knows what malware may be concealed in the firmware of any of their hardware products.
I agree... and at the same time disagree. Both Sony and Microsoft are huge companies... in most companies this size they would have disjointed projects with disjointed agendas. But both of these particular companies have such a huge push for integration... if you look at any sony product, they honestly leverage every one of their technologies (all proprietary of course) in every new product. The consoles use technologies developed in the same sony DRM lab that the music and/or video departments are using. I really don't think you can pull the "hand doesn't know what the feet are doing" argument. But then I'm just talking out of my ass so don't mind me. ;o)
I don't buy CD's, so this "DRM/rootkit" does not affect me. However, I have been a longtime customer of Sony electronics, especially of the console variety. I currently own 2 PS1's and a PS2 (along with a GameCube, XBox, GameBoy, SNES, NES, Genesis, Master System, Game Gear, etc, etc). Over the course of their (the Sony consoles) combined lifetimes, I have easily purchased 100+ games. I have been seriously considering purchasing a PSP, and I definitely planned on purchasing a PS3.
After watching this story develop, I have decided that I do not want to support your company. Not only do you assume that all of your customers are criminals, you also assume that they are all brainwashed idiots (http://www.theregister.com/2005/11/09/sony_drm_w
I am not a criminal, and I am not an idiot. And I have a message for you:
I WILL NOT purchase a PSP.
I WILL NOT purchase a PS3.
I WILL NOT purchase anymore PS1 or PS2 games or periphials.
In fact, if a product says "Sony" on it, or if my research into a product (and, yes, I research before I buy) reveals a connection to Sony, I WILL NOT BUY IT. I am making a concerted effort to convince friends and family to do likewise.
I honestly don't care if you issue a public apology. I don't care if you recall all DRM CD's and pony up for repair bills. I don't care if you release a full featured uninstaller. You have shown throughout this whole ordeal that you do not care about us.
</polite>
<rant>
WTF Sony??? Do you really think that we were all just gonna sit and take this bullshit??? FSCK you, FSCK your "anti-piracy" rootkit, and FSCK your attitude towards consumers. Hey, we pay your fsckin bills!!!! Why the fsck would you want to piss us off???
</rant>
unfortunately, they will probably get away with it. oh, they may make a token apology, or may be forced to pay a few out-of-court settlements, but then this will go away and it'll be back to the same ol' bullshit. the mass media is studiously ignoring this story, and joe sixpack aint got a clue. the security industry is up in arms, and there are a few lawsuits cropping up here and there, but lets face facts. until the average consumer gets pissed off and decides they've had enough, we're not gonna have enough leverage to change any of sony's policies. i honestly hope sony gets this drm/eula thing shoved up their ass and they go bankrupt, but i guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Thereby demonstrating that Code and Speech do need some slightly different approaches to enforcement and/or regulation.
Because the EULA is clearly a bunch of bullshit that I can ignore. Oh, they can write it, and waste a lot of money trying to enforce that I delete all of my laptop's files when someone borrows my CD and accidentally uses it as a toilet paper stand, but ultimately it's a work of madness.
Their rootkit, on the other hand, can f**k up my computer, and allow it to be used as a tool for spam, for DoS attacks, for general mayhem and chaos. It's beyond quixotic and it's beyond petulant (which their EULA is): it's destructive.
I'm not saying they can't just write stupid EULAs all they want. They should be able to, and the law should continue to laugh at their deranged pseudolegal ravings. But they shouldn't be allowed to put that kind of code on their CDs. They should be punished, and criminally.
I have been a very happy sony customer in the past for a long time I had purchased sony goods as they suited the budget and more often than not they where very good quality for the price I was prepared to pay. Having bought a sony digital camera (DSC-F505V) when it was new and having owned two trinitron televisions and the list goes on. What has always been great about sony goods is that they have been easy to use, functional, and good quality at a reasonable price. That was enough after research to buy the goods and be happy with them. Taking that on board when I went to replace my sony camera I was so disappointed by the fact that sony didnt have a camera that had any reliable after market batteries etc and the life span for the digital cameras was woeful. I have since purchased a Canon EOS 350D which is a much more professional camera although somewhat harder to manage than the sony ever was. Over time my dislike for sony consumer goods has become greater and greater, and seeing the company do such stupid stuff like the DRM and putting out stupid EULAs just makes me wonder what stupid lawyers have gotten into bed with what was once such a great company. When will they get the hint that all the publicity they are getting over these issues is not good for business, especially when the company has not been doing so well over recent years (see profit warnings). Once I would have said long live sony, now I am wondering if they should even be in business.
They would ship their goods to market by horsecart.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
hmmmmm. I rate that highly, but will raise the question of how they get the raw materials ;~)
;~)
I know that much of the furniture that is 'Amish Made' does indeed come from trees they farm and fall themselves, so I guess that would be a true winner -- hand fallen trees, hand hewn furnishings and a horse cart to market.
Nifty.
Boy, if society collapses the Amish are going to be swamped with people trying to learn from them
The really funny thing is: The last batch of blank CD-Rs I bought are from - Sony.
Having the cake and eating it, too? These guys are funny. If they should succeed in curbing music copying, I'm sure the next thing they cry about is losses in the blank CD-R department. It'll be interesting to see what kind of law they push to get that fixed.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"One could easily argue that they are a parasitic group riding on the backs of our most creative individuals."
Perhaps it was like that before the recording industry appeared. Today, there are no "most creative individuals", just puppets-with-an-attitude spit out by the evil corps to sell all kinds of merchandising except good music.
I don't feel like it...
So did you have to drive to the collective? Was it dirt roads the whole way there from your house?
There is a Universal Life Value Check it
> Mircosoft is also planning to remove the DRM through their MS AntiSpyware
;-)
Yeah, but will it remove their own DRM?
I don't want to put the brick through a Sony exec's window.
See www.goatse.cx for example.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Bravo for taking action instead of just ranting like most.
(IANAL)
I wonder if there's an equal protection thing here. I hear that the affected CD's only contain Win32 malware, nothing Mac or *nix compatible.
It's a bit of a twisted argument, but why shouldn't those platforms get the same..."management" assistance as Windows?
Said differently...the Redbook data is on the disc, in addition to whichever book supports the data track's presence.
A standard, CD-logo-only, standalone CD player does nothing but Redbook. It directly access the Redbook data. Seems like Macs and *nix boxes can do the same, with no EULA to contend with.
Is there some legal thing that says the policy is unequally applied across the marketplace?
Dunno...
I think that the most effective solution to this whole DRM rootkit issue would be for everyone to celebrate a Sony-Free Christmas this year. Don't purchase Sony products as gifts for others, and return & exchange any Sony products received as gifts for non-Sony products. We can't count on the politicians or the courts to bring justice Sony's way, but I bet if we ruin Sony's Christmas sales the stockholders will be screaming for the appropriate heads to roll.
(Note that the O.P. claimed that everything was shipped by truck.
My car is not a truck.)No, but the condition of the roads is irrelevant.
I assume that you are trying to make the point that the materials to make the road were shipped by truck, but that is not that same thing as the goods themselves being shipped by truck.
Similarly, the fact that my car was shipped to the dealership by truck is also irrelevant, as is the fact that the money that I used to buy the merchandise was probably shipped by (armored) truck to the bank/ATM from which I withdrew it.
The claim was that the merchandise itself was shipped by truck somewhere along the line, not that systems that facilitated the construction/distribution/purchasing/etc. of the merchandise were shipped by truck.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Actually, what I used to buy was usually farm produce.
Also, I may have bought some from the farmers themselves, right outside their fields, but it was so long ago that I can't recall exactly.
For people that don't have Amish living nearby (such as where I live now), if you buy farm produce from roadside stands right outside the farmer's fields (which was probably "shipped" there by a tractor, not a truck), or strawberries, pumpkins or other fruits/vegetables from "pick your own" farms, or Christams trees from "cut your own" tree farms, and take the stuff home in your car (as opposed to in your pickup truck), then you are most likely getting produce that was not shipped by truck anywhere along the line.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I previewed twice before I posted, but somehow I missed it.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
What do you think would be the repercussions? Is it possible that Sony will be forced to open-source their rootkit - and that we'll see more rootkits like this, based on that source?
Man, MS is screwed now - an open-source Windows rootkit, freely available for all to see MS's security holes!
Although I sure hope it doesn't give open-source software a bad rap. . .
www.linuxpenguin.net
I actually meant 'Semi' for the most part.
The amish part wins, because _some_ Amish communities are ALL natural; they don't buy anything at all and essentially live directly of the land.
All commercial farms get massive amounts of stuff delivered to them via truck, and couldn't survive without it. At least not without changing a LOT.
Gas for tractors, fertalizers, mulches, seeds, lye etc.