The Yellow Machine in Review
So, the machine itself is, well, uh, cute. Bright yellow, good clear display lights so that you can see traffic on the different drives. The drives themselves are IDE drives, so yeah, you don't get the speed of SCSI, but frankly, if you are looking for 1.6 TB of SCSI, you probably need to look at jbods or the like. But since the unit is really designed to be an office storage environment, that's probably just fine.
Feature-wise, the unit has almost everything that you want. What is interesting to me, that I haven't seen in many NAS units is that it's got a double firewall. The interface for handling network isn't quite as nice, as say, a wireless unit, but it's decent. You can have the machine sit as your connection to your WAN (it handles DHCP, static IP) do port-forwarding and all those other fun things. The primary problem that I had was actually the config of first getting it setup, but that didn't take much time once I actually read the manual. *grin* It will also do web-access controls for users, monitor e-mails sent, a whole slew of other stuff.
The network support is robust. It does SMB/NFS, and supports Windows and Mac as desktop clients, and does indeed work under Linux as well based on my testing. All of the interface work is done via HTTP so as long as you've got a somewhat recent flavor of web browser, you'll be dandy although it's optimized for IE6. The unit is surprisingly quiet - many times, while I was at my desk (it sat under there) I forgot it was there and kicked it over. It still works fine after that, BTW.
In terms of speed and performance, nothing hugely different then normal network file transfers, but that's more a function of network traffic/speed then anything else. The device handled multiple people using (it has permissions built-in) easily, and did uploads & downloads of big VOB files, MP3 directories, normal files - it shrugged it off. The major issue is pricing; the 1 TB is about $1300. Now, for the DIY crowd, yes, using Linux you could very easily put together a RAID 5, 1 TB machine for not that much more -- and you are probably going to do it anyway. But for the target market, especially situations in which the IT resources are limited, it's a great machine for the ease of setting it up. And since it supports doing automated back-ups as well as has the serial port to work with a UPS system, you don't have to worry about the whole crapping out and losing all of your data. All in all, a great unit. Price is a concern, but a minor one.
8/10 :)
I am not going to try and understand the next few paragraphs of a review that starts with
"with the all RAID fun and such."
What in the hell does that mean?
[I can picture a world without war, without hate. I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it]
"We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions"
Parse Error at line 1.
Core Dump...
Yellow Box love you LONG time!
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
The major issue is pricing; the 1 TB is about $1300.
Price is a concern, but a minor one.
So.. You think it's a cute looking box? I think so too. In my opinion, it's quite ugly. Very pretty, if I may say so.
1: Cheap
2: Reliable (e.g. RAID mirroring or 5)
3: Decent performance.
4: No special drivers required (unlike Netgear SC101)
5: Cheap.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
This machine's design reminds me of a toaster. They should put the floppy drive on top so it would really look like one that toasts floppies
You just got troll'd!
Is that a sentance?????
Is that a word?????
Nowhere on their site does is list any support for remote authentication. If I need a cheep solution I will set up an old desktop running Linux and get a SATA RAID card.
"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
30 NOV 05: Not content with mere duplicate stories, Hemos started posting incoherent ramblings.
$1300 isn't exactly expensive for an 1tb NAS device.
all start singing...."We all live in a Yellow Machine, a Yellow Machine, a Yellow Machine... haha"
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Me, I'll just use that to serve porn wirelessly so I can watch it on my PSP in my, ah... bed.
Serving time in Aristotelean prison for violating laws of physics
If I understand correctly, the user manual states that the appliance uses the Linux kernel... if this is so, has anyone found a link on their web-site to any GPL'd code included with the software updates?
Well, the review was super froody! Yeah, you know Linux was mentioned and that was neat. I read it on a pretty modern webbrowser, but I suppose that IE would've been great, too.
D ataSheet.pdf -- or even the basic breakdown: http://www.anthologysolutions.com/products/index.h tm ) then, hey give this rather cute review a shot!
The reviewer spent some time talking about things, which was cool in my book. At one point, I actually considered looking into one of the technical things mentioned, but didn't as it would've broken the flavor of the review.
All in all, it was a pretty fun review -- I had some laughs and a couple of good cries. For the DIY crowd, you could google the info yourself -- which, you'll probably do anyhow. But for the Suits who want to spend some money and not learn much (much less than say... the spec sheet: http://www.anthologysolutions.com/products/P400T_
Thanks for the darling review. I feel much peppier now. =/
#SickNotWeak
Kano Technologies
"I forgot it was there and kicked it over. It still works fine after that, BTW." You sure shortened the life of those drives, but it's a interresting way to evaluate new hardware -see how much punishment it can take and still get a refund.
Zere vere zwei peanuts valking down der Straße, and von vas assaulted...peanut
I got the Infrant Redy NAS, it's a pretty nice machine. they have a new verison X6 that lets you incramentally upgrade your drives and automatically resizes your volume. It's also nice to buy the machine with no drives and upgrade that when you can afford it.
...sentance
Is that a word?
If you don't modify the original you don't have to distribute the source youself, you only have to distribute the source to any changes or derrivatives. See the GPL for details. Specifically:
This means all they need to do is provide a link to kernel.org
These "sentences" are embarrassing. What happened to proofreading? Seriously, you guys beg for test hardware to play with, and then you write a review that's barely English? Come on. We all have deadlines, but is it too much to ask that the editor proofread his own work to make sure it's coherent?
rooooar
The major issue is pricing; the 1 TB is about $1300.
Price is a concern, but a minor one.
So, which is it?
dennis
I am sure The "White" Supremacists [Apple Users?] will start discriminating against these "Yellow" Machines.......
Just like all those kiddies with their hyper-yellow Honda's, we know that everything painted yellow is faster than non-yellow.
"Beauty is the ultimate defense against complexity." - David Gelernter
Am I the only one shocked that this thing has no gigabit backend? Also, I assume only one 100MB port? NOT good design descisions IMHO.
Also, and I know this has been hashed out quite a few times, how is an office supposed to back this thing up? Yeah, it's RAID, but with no SCSI/Fibre port for local NDMP attached backups, you have to drag everything back over the single 100MB port from another server. Better bet would be to DIY your own box, then you could have a local attached TBU device as well as do cooler stuff like block-level iSCSI sharing as opposed to the file-level NAS stuff, all on the same set of drives.
Geez, I know I don't pay for a subscription, and I know SlashDot doesn't claim to be any kind of professional writing at all, but...
When your website's one-and-only purpose for existing is to communicate information, don't you think it's worth at least minor efforts to avoid miscommunication like this?
It's really not that hard, either. You could probably find a highly qualified copyeditor or three who could do such small piece-work on demand from home for a very modest fee. Or, if you have zero budget for improving quality, simply having each non-professional writer require a careful reading of their piece from one or two of the other non-professional writers there before posting ought to prevent complete garbage like this sentence from making it in.
Please consider doing something to improve your process. Some mistakes are funny, but total opacity is not so entertaining.
I saw one of these at a place I worked at:Buffalo systems ... little less flashy on the presentation but nonetheless does its job... also with a 1Tb at $1000, i think it's a better deal
OBLIVION!-
This hope I helps.
I don't really think anyone in the slashdot crowd expected it to not do that.
Generally, a hardware review contains at least some sort of benchmarks or some gauge of performance. The closest you came to this was "I kicked it and it didn't break" and "It was kind of easy to use."
If you're going to review hardware, why don't you look up some other reviews for related hardware and try to structure yours in a similar manner. That way, you might actually offer some useful information.
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
This is one cute little unit, but why not add gigabit ethernet? With 4 drivies in raid 5 on their own master controller, why bottleneck it with 10/100?
"We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions..."
/. pedant, but c'mon, guys, a little editing won't kill you.
"Over?" I don't want to sound like a typical
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
When I first read the words "about the size of a ups box" I pictured one of those big brown metal boxes you put packages in for pickup by UPS.
If I wanted something that huge for storage, I'd get an AS/400.
So I'm sorry I misunderstood you Hemos. When you said UPS box, you meant UPS box, not UPS box. My mistake.
Go to your local community college and take an English class.
What the hell does that mean? I have seen many "decent" UPS units, ranging in size from an oversized power strip up to roughly 20U sized. Now I'm not sure I trust the rest of the review, as any halfway knowledgeable IT person understands that the size of an UPS is entirely dependent on needs dictated by (load * time). There are so many comparisons available, and he managed to pick the one that is utterly meaningless.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
It was just so bad, I had to sig it.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
I also reviewed this machine in an article on TomsNetworking. My review included fun things like pulling the power from one of the RAID drives while streaming a movie, comparative performance graphs, etc.
Here's my review.
It would sound better if you sang "Yellow RAID Machine."
This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
Here is a quote of their conclusion: For my money, looks like I'll be investigating other products, first.
/dev/random
What sort of review is this??
Beyond the space, there's absolutely no mention of the technical specifications of the device. I mean FFS, at very least state:
* Whether its 1000 or 100mbit
* It support jumbo packets
* Methods of access control, sure you state there's a control panel, wtf does it do? MAC/IP ACLs? What?
* Whether the interface can use HTTPS
* Read/write benchmarks via NFS/SMB
If it weren't for the absolutely pathetic written skills of the author and the total lack of analysis of it's feature set (beyond yay its yellow and I like it), I'd suspect this is just a ploy by the manufacturer to profit off Slashdot... nothing new there tho.
I'm looking at the picture and it looks like a solid front-plate. I don't care how many fans you use, you can't pull air through a solid piece of plastic. Meager ventilation equals burnout city. Poor design. It may be a month, it may be a year but those drives will fail before the box is removed for obsolescence.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
Translation, for all of you who aren't racist: Clicks and whistles.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
While I can't offer any usage information, as we will be purchasing them in a few months, I can say that they are: not yellow, and about $300 cheaper. The TerraStation also comes with a backup utility, which I don't see mentioned in the article text.
Note: I am not affiliated with Buffalo Tech, just someone who has spent way too much time trying to find a NAS terrabyte storage solution.
I have an old InterJet that does much the same...it runs Linux, has firewall, email, storage, DHCP...a whopping 64MB and I think there's a 6GB drive in it or so...Should be able to support 128 or 256MB and up to a 40GB HDD. First $20 plus shipping takes it....
Nothing to see here but us trolls...move along...
Why would you put a NAS and a firewall/router on the same piece of hardware? I'm looking at NAS solutions right now and the LAST place I would put 1TB of corporate data is within reach of the T1.
Nice product by the looks of it, but I can't see myself ever buying one.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Why would you hxxp here? I can understand on filelist or puretna, but here? RAID
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
You forgot obviously commercial advertisements masquerading as reviews by Chinese PR agents who can't speak (or write) English.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
That is $498,000 cheaper then other vendors
"We won't just stop with OS X. We give greater coverage - all the way up to OS Z!"
You know what?
Just to add to the comments about the incoherence of this article.... Why would people interested in SCSI need to consider JBODs? So if we want to spend the money for extra performance there is some reason we wouldn't want the safety of RAID?
End result: ~ 1 TB RAID 5
6 250 GB SATA drives ~ $700
cheap MB & CPU & mem ~ $100 (Less if your a better bargin hunter)
case and power ~ $50
2 4 channel SATA controlers ~ $30
coffee ~ $20
Gentoo Linux ~ free
If you are more than just a desktop user it can be done in a few hours for ~$880 in parts.. well less now since 250 GB drives have dropped in price. The SATA drivers are a bit dogy on my setup, I'm still looking into why. But for playing mp3 and movies its not a problem at all. I only run into issues where there is alot of R/W disk IO. One of the drives decides to drop out of the array if I run squid on the raid partition or try to do transcoding. So, serving stuff up it does pretty well. If the array is thrasing do to writes I run into problems. For what most of us would use it for though I'm willing to wait till the raid or SATA drivers are fixed for about $500 in savings.
I spent more time putting the HW together than I did configuring the disks. If you have any kind of know how DIY, there are free tools for everything else they describe. If you want wireless add another couple of bucks for a wireless card.
BOFH, My model for being a sysadmin :)
This device is the perfect "turn key" style solution to home media storage.
For $1,300 (£750) you get 1 terabyte of RAID'd storage. So you can survive one drive dying without any data loss. Not only that, the box also offers all the network-gubbins, firewall and "easy" config.
Hide the box in the loft or well ventilated cupboard and combine with a couple of cheap modded Xboxes or Media Center PCs and you've got yourself a pretty perfect home media setup.
For a simple solution, this box is extremely good value for money.
That all said, I do wonder how much the original poster'll earn in comission for this article..
1.3TB for $1300 is cheap. Just the cheapest 300GB EIDE drives (x4, max on cheap IDE) cost $104, at least $516 - for 1.2TB, 100GB less than the Yellow. The HW for the rest of the machine is probably at least another $500, for $950. If you can put one of these boxes together and install the OS and SW (assuming yours will be as good) in under 3 hours, you probably can charge at least $100:h at work. And there's tech/customer support. This box seems like a good deal, without hassle, with little markup.
--
make install -not war
But, (and this is a big "but"), did Tom's Hardware get paid to write a stellar review of an average computer in a yellow case? I bet that they didn't. Slashdot is lacking something called "journalistic integrity" which many people these days don't really care about, which is why the "reviews" were so much different. As with most mysteries of modern life, the answer can be found by following the money.
Right now, RAID6 is starting to gain popularity in high-availability environments.
With basic RAID5, the array can handle a single drive failure and can only detect odd errors with no possibility of correcting them. With RAID5+1, a hot-spare is available to start unattended rebuild when a failure occurs but costs and extra drive while still leaving the array vulnerable to a second failure during the rebuild process. With RAID6, error-correcting codes are generated for the N extra (non-data) drives to provide N/2 bits error correction, multi-bits error detection and recovery of up to N erasures/failures.
RAID6 is more computationnally expensive than RAID5 but it can be made arbitrarily resilient to subtle soft errors typical RAID5 would never detect. An external box 6xSATA/NCQ RAID6 with SATA-3G-uplink storage controller would be a nice companion for anybody who takes data integrity seriously but does not want to do TB-scale backups. (Of course, this still leaves data vulnerable to infection-induced or otherwise accidental trashing.)
I'm actually looking for something simular to this for our studio. If anyone has any recommendations to other manufacturors please reply. Anything like this minus the "good looks" would be fine, as well as having the option to connect via usb 2.0 or firewire.. regards, Rj
Wow great timing I've just started research on this. So how this thing compare to Infrant Technologies' (www.infrant.com) ReadyNAS 600 and ReadyNAS X6 devices?
First off, who wrote this review? Sounds to me like an Anthology Solutions employee trying to be all slashdotty.
I just looked at the specs for this and am not that impressed. Like many other NAS devices, they claim OS/X support, but support is not via AFP. Though their docs make no mention of it, the YellowMachine is almost certainly running SAMBA only, and OS/X support is also through SAMBA. The problem with this is primarily long filenames. Try backing up your music collection to a SMB/CIFS box, and you'll see what I mean. IMHO, if you don't have AFP support, then you don't support Macs.
Similarly, there's no support for rsync or (given what Tom's Networking has to say) file access via FTP or HTTP. And this may be just me, but who wants a router, DHCP server, a firewall, and a proxy server embedded in a NAS box? And $1300? That's cheap?
I recently purchased a RAID enabled SOHO NAS appliance. I spent a long time figuring out exactly what was needed in a mixed OS/X, Windows, Linux environment. I picked the Infrant ReadyNAS box. You can see my blog entry on this subject for details as to why. In short: support for SMB/CIFS, AFP, NFS, rsync, webdav, and FTP. Support for UPS devices. Support for Gigabit Ethernet. Very good documentation and an even better (employee active) user forum. And I got a TB of storage (650MB after RAID 5 formatting) for $1,000.
Am I the only one reminded of the Banana product line? Not that I want to make any comparisons...
/
http://www-i5.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/mbp/bloom
It shouldn't be that expensive to design these NAS boxes with Gb ethernet on board, instead of the usual 100 Mb I see everywhere. Granted, many places still run at 100, but it sure would be nice to at least have the option of running faster. The RAID could surely fill a Gb pipe....
Mebbe if it had a gigabit ethernet port.
Otherwise, it's kinda not quite there.
Firewire and gigE are both pretty cheap these days. There's no good reason that a box like this can't have that kind of thruput. NAS doesn't have to mean slow as a snail. They could dump the 8-port switch or just have different model options.
This could be really sweet as a MythTV repository otherise.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
who in their right mind jacks their core storage directly into a WAN (given that this thing is obviously aimed at home use). regardless of what cheesy firewall/router is in it, that's just asking for trouble.
...of why grammar is important! There's a huge difference between "My god Hemos!" and "My god, Hemos!" (Note the comma.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
what the hell does that sentance mean?
You may want to try here.
My last experience with a RAID array: A client wanted to use a multidisk SCSI cabinet array for his server (although really all he needed was a few RAIDed drives in the case). After testing the configuration I passed along the info: the RAID arrays works great, but it was completely unfeasible to use in his office due to the fact that it sounded like a jet engine firing up.
Can anyone comment on the volume level of this array? Quiet, loud? Quiet enough for a server room but too loud for an office desk?
Karma, blah blah... I just can't let this go. A lot of people have been saying the same thing, but seriously, is Hemos below the average intelligence level of the average, "below average intelligence level" person?
Hemos... Millions of people will see this, and already tens of thousands of people see you as a small, dim-witted monkey that just recovered from a botched lobotomy. Your first drafts are awful beyond description... At least I hope this was a first draft.
Let's all just assume that he's completely baked at the current moment. That's much preferable.
This sig used to be really funny...
Is this another Spam by * * BeatlesBeatles?
Repant. Thy end is sheer.
"Worst /. Story of 2005"
This story is currently nominated for "Worst Slashdot Story of 2005" and unless a Katrina-scale woofer of a story comes along in the next month, this little slice of junior-high blather will easily take the prize. I wonder if Hemos actually _read_ this story before posting it? (Hemos: did you write this? Or just post it?) As many others have pointed out, the first sentence doesn't even parse in English! I might be wrong, but I'm assuming that Hemos' native language is English because most of the not-english-as-first-language-having folks I've met can express themselves MUCH better than Americans who grew up with English. Not meaning to flame Americans (I'm from Mississippi after all...) but the state of written communication in the USA seems to be declining proportionally to the rise in blogging.
This sig kills fascists.
download page for the software not sure if it includes the source code as well or not... you have to provide the machine details on a web request form...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Sounds like a REALLY bad idea to put your important files on a box that's also used as a firewall...even if said box is yellow.
I like this google translated there and back and there and back and there and back version a lot better.
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In Republican America phones tap you.
This posting, along with the comments, has made my day. I haven't laughed like this since I was a little girl. Whew ... back to humdrum.
-c
put the review in google translator and translate from english to japanese.
Then get the results (that is, if you can't read japanese) and paste back into the textarea and translate from japanese to english.
Being google, well, google. It will get the subtle meaning in the mind of the writter and put back the real meaning out of that engrish.
To save you all time, i've already translated the 1st line:
The yellow machine that' where we formed the Anthology Solutions; You heard recently at the office with respect to the one of S.
Wow, this shows a level of idiocy I would not have thought possible. After the first time kicking it over, the thought should have come up, "CRAP! That's a terrible place to keep that. I should move it to somewhere more out of the way, where it won't get knocked over all the time."
"Whoa, that's the fourth time I've knocked that thing over. I'll bet I've learned my lesson now."
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
if they expect people to take their company and/or product seriously.
When did Ron Popeil start making storage solutions?
And more importantly, how quickly can it cook a chicken?
because you're Shatner?
Snort coke in one hole and valium in another.
That's beautiful. 8P
Mods didn't find it funny, but I did.
#SickNotWeak
please somebody, mod up - thats funny
I'm sorry, but that was altogether comprehensible and
comprehensive. You'll have to do worse than that.
Not only did you write clearly and cover useful data,
but (even more foolishly) you compared the unit to
the wrong sort of boxes. Your UPS pickups will
be canceled.
[disclaimer]
If you require to have heard an words that are
stringed together with clueless meaning, please
see the mommy and dady of this post box instead.
[/disclaimer]
It might add $100 to the cost. We're talking about an unmanaged, 4- or 5-port GigE switch here. I got my 8-port SMC 8508 (which supports Jumbo Frames, by the way) for around $100, and that was over a year ago. They're now in the $70 ballpark.
Even though I have a 3-year old RAID5 box already (Adaptec 2400A + 4x 160GB WD drives), I would seriously consider buying something like this for the simplicity, but it HAS to support GigE (and support it well), as I use my RAID box heavily for audio/video storage and editing, as well as audio/video streaming.
Well, this review was the last article I'm going to read on slashdot. It was an utter piece of shit and I can't justify giving these morons any more traffic. It's been a good decade or so, but I can't justify the time it takes to filter this massive amount of misinformation. Cheers.
"There are no such things as mutual fantasies. Yours bore us and ours offend you."
- Bill Maher
...Hemos has been outsourced!
*grin*
SYS 64738
I don't sea why you get so up tight about a couple of comma's?
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Wow, good find. I had no idea that you could get 1U Xeon servers that cheap. The last time I looked at rackmount machines, the chassis alone cost three times what they're charging.
This will pretty much be the only good thing that I've gotten so far out of the dot-com bubble...
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
There's a discussion here. I like the basic concept, RAID-4 without striping, but I'm not rushing to buy their package. I'd like to see an open source driver that does that though.
If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.
all your base are belong to us. we recently had heard in the office over one of the yellow machine that's made by anthology solutions. somebody set us up the bomb.
Chances are any disscution on Slashdot will degrade into a flamewar about ID/Christianity within 14 posts.
Why not just go nuts? Put RAID1 on top of RAID5. (i.e., two RAID5 arrays, both getting the same writes). Or heck, RAID5 on top of RAID5. Wheee!
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
RAID1 on RAID5 would only allow one failure in each set... RAID5 on RAID0 would allow at least two and up to six with 10 drives - but even RAID5 on RAID5 will still not give you anything anywhere near as strong as RAID6's error detection and correction on a reliability to drive-count ratio.
Composite RAID sounds sexy but RAID6 is cheaper and more resilient. Its only significant issue is that error correction is a lot more computationally expensive than RAID5's dirt-cheap XORs. The composite R6 of R5s or R0/R5 of R6s would be nice for banks and other such where each set could be stored in a separate vault to protect them from each other in case of any array catching fire or one of them being stolen. Now we're talking extreme (but justifiable) paranoia.
Thanks! That's more better.
(defun function metareview (content-free)
(un-grammar-spell (metareview (irony (content-free)))))
; Function has unpredictable side effects on humor
; due to interaction with functions irony and un-grammar-spell
; Run-time only limited by side-effect on interest
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
There is always the malicious or stupid person in your network.
That and also not every machine in a big coroporate network needs to have access to the device, firewall filtering ads an additional lelvel of internal security.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Well, I was kidding, but you do have a point. But don't you have RAID0 and RAID1 backwards? RAID0 provides no redundancy. RAID1 does.
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
I did guess it was a joke but still felt like writing something.
For the RAID0 mixup, that was a lapsus in the first paragraph. For the bank scenario, my thought behind 0 on 6 is that an hypothetical thief would have to steall all R6 arrays to have a complete data set.