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Admission Tickets as Text Messages

lee1 writes to tell us that InfoWorld is reporting that Smartmachine and their partner Skidata have developed a new way to allow customers to purchase and receive tickets to events. The new ticketing system allows users to "have a ticket sent to their mobile phone via SMS (Short Message Service) in the form of a 2D (two-dimensional) bar code. At the gate, they slide their mobile phone display showing the bar code by a bar code reader." The new technology also claims to help combat the counterfeit, pilferage, and repeat use that can be such a problem for paper tickets.

244 comments

  1. And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Kittyflipping · · Score: 4, Insightful

    themselves! And to add value to the consumer, they will (automatically) sign you up for text messages about upcoming events that may be (but probably aren't) of interest to you! Sorry for the cynicism, but I haven't found ticketing agencies to be all that honest (e.g. Fandango signed me up for a subscription to a 3rd party children's website because I clicked on an ad for a few bucks off my purchase. I read the ad and closed it; it wasn't anything I was interested in because I didn't have kids. Unbeknownst to me, Fandango had sent my credit card information to this site and signed me up!)

    1. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by east+coast · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry for the cynicism

      I doubt few would disagree with you... Look at ticketmaster. The last time I bought a ticket via TM I was charged somewhere about 8 USD for a "convience fee". I bought the ticket online and picked the ticket up at the box office. So what's the convience? The fact that I did my own order entry and seating research instead of tying up one of their customer services sales reps on the phone for 15 minutes on an 800 number? The fact that they didn't have to put the ticket in an envelope and mail it to me? I SAVED them money by doing my business on the internet and still I got smacked with a fee as if doing things on my own is somehow easier....

      Wait, yeah, considering the level of competence of the average sales rep, I guess it was more convient.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Wabin · · Score: 1
      This gets a bit off topic, but why the hell does TM use a system by which you don't get to pick anything about your tickets except the price and general area? If you don't like the tickets you are assigned, you have to go the whole process again, and enter that damn pictureword again. And again. And again. This is convenience?!

      I just don't see why they don't have a system like the airlines to let you pick your exact seat. It might not work when everyone is trying to get tickets at the same time, but for most things it would probably work just fine. It also solves the problem where there might not be good seats 4 in a row, but there might be 2 in one row and 2 in the row behind...

      But I should stop flogging the dead horse. Fact is, TM is an awful monopolistic highway robber. Perl Jam was right. Ah well.

      --
      Most exciting phrase in science: not "Eureka!" but "Hmm... That's funny..." -Asimov (abridged for \. limits)
    3. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by IAAP · · Score: 1
      ...I was charged somewhere about 8 USD for a "convience fee".

      at least for my local ballet, symphony, and other fine arts stuff, when they do charge the convience fee, the tickets are mailed to you. Then they place you on the call list and every year they call me asking when I want to go to the ballet again.

    4. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by mottie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ticketmaster actually charges MORE for you to print your own tickets. How ridiculous is that? It's cheaper to go to their counter, use their clerk's time, and use their ink/paper.. I didn't realize that it cost so much to send PDFs out by email. They must be using Adobe Acrobat Professional or something..

    5. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by SkyDude · · Score: 1

      In the late 70's a few banks weretripping over themselves trying to entice people to use ATMs. They were free all the time! Just sign up!

      Well, we know where that went - they have become a major profit center and gawd help you if you use an ATM at a bank you're not a customer at!

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    6. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by kpang · · Score: 1

      The last time I bought a ticket via TM I was charged somewhere about 8 USD for a "convience fee".

      I had the same experience with Ticketmaster, except the fee was 20 USD instead of 8. My first thoughts were, "convenience fee? that's not convenient at all!". :(

    7. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...smacked with a fee..."? Was it a secret charge that you didn't know about until it showed up on your CC statement, or was it something that you agreed to before submitting the order?

    8. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by lsiden · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. I bought 3 tickets to a local event. The price of the tickets was $15 each, but with all the junk charges they added on I paid $68.50! (I was in a hurry and distracted, so I wasn't paying attention - my fault!) That's the last time I ever plan to buy tickets through Ticket Master.

    9. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think everyone will agree with me when I say...

      Ticketmaster, you can go to hell.

      Jackasses...

    10. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It WAS convienent. For Them.. Why shouldn't you pay for their convienence? I'd love to charge you for my convience. What's your credit card number??

    11. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by jmnormand · · Score: 1

      its not just tickmaster. its big business now charging for "conviences" that actual save the companies (oh and the goverment) millions of dollars a year. heck you go renew your license or reregister your car online you are charged a convience fee, which im not entirely sure isnt an illegal tax...

    12. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by vrt3 · · Score: 1

      It's the same thing with some of the movie theaters here in Belgium: you can (1) buy tickets via the Internet and print it yourself, (2) buy tickets on a machine with your debet or credit card or (3) buy it the old-fashioned way from a real human being. Last time I checked, (1) and (2) or more expensive than (3). I guess there are some things that I will never understand.

      --
      This sig under construction. Please check back later.
    13. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 0
      convience
      Could someone clarify whether this is:

      1. a stupid misspelling of 'conveyance'
      2. an incredibly stupid misspelling of 'convenience'
      3. $DEITY help us, some new word from the deepest level of the blogospher implying a combination of the two.

      That's it, that's all.
      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    14. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by krewemaynard · · Score: 1

      ...Well, we know where that went - they have become a major profit center and gawd help you if you use an ATM at a bank you're not a customer at!

      Isn't that just awful?! Paying for a service from a company you don't do any business with, instead of driving 2 blocks down the road to get to your own bank...BASTARDS!
      --
      I saw it on Slashdot, it must be true!
    15. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
      Hmm, in the late 90s the major banks in the UK tried charging customers for using ATMs. That didn't last long - customers protested, and the charges were dropped, except for third-party machines (not major banks). Its easy enough to cost the banks money by tying up their physical branches if they try it again, so they all came to an agreement. However, you do get charged for using ATMs overseas.

      I hear that american customers accept being charged to receive telephone calls, which seems odd.

      On the other hand, comparing prices for goods between the UK and US shows an incredible disparity in favour of the US, so I don't know why USians let themselves get ripped off in services.

    16. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by paving-slab · · Score: 1

      ...Unless you're in the UK, where it is free to get money from any of the major banks or building societies ATMs, whichever bank or building society you bank with.

    17. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by crazyj · · Score: 1

      They used to actually claim somewhere on their site that the extra charge for TicketFast was to defray the cost of developing the technology to do it. I would guess that somewhere after taking in several thousand times their cost they decded that argument didn't fly anymore and took that line off the site.

    18. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      My bank charges me pretty much nothing if I use their ATMs or if I use EFTPOS but if I use another banks ATM, I get charged a small fee.
      Therefore, I try to use my banks ATMs (not always easy, there arent that many around) or EFTPOS when I can.

    19. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      I used to bank at Bank of America from 1982 to 2000 when I moved to Iowa. I would have kept BofA, but the closest ATM or branch was more than 40 minutes away.

      After a month of atm fees at $3.20 a pop from my bank and $1.20 from their bank, I got all my bills in line and changed banks..

      But dont always assume there's an atm nearby, and I thought that the point of the 'networks' (star, cirrus, etc) was so that you didn't have to pay fees.

      Anyway, I do agree that there should be some kind of fee- perhaps a once a month 'other bank atm usage' fee that's like $5 for unlimited other atm use- and then not get charged by the other bank too. What do you suppose it actually costs the bank in terms of the 1 minute you've tied up the atm, and the actual cost of sending the two packets of data to the other bank?

      Seems like there should be fees, but you shouldn't get f***ed at both ends for every transaction.

    20. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we're a bunch of fucking sheep?

    21. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by kumahdus · · Score: 1

      Seen this thing working pretty nicely in Finland in some occasions. Staff at doors read barcodes from mobile phones with handheld scanners. Works nicely and swiftly, no need to run to ticket office to get your paper ticket -- unless you really want to have a paper copy. Barcode is always related to the phone number, so one can receive a new copy of ticket right away (in case of accidental delete). One barcode can hold anything from single to multiple seats - it's just matter of database design. And for those thinking of faking the barcode: can't fake it because of the database connection. Or of course one CAN make a fake barcode easily, but you'll be caught right away when trying to use it. BTW: It's just amazing how often companies try to sell old stuff as "new innovations" :-/

      --
      beep
    22. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, those Jackasses pay my salary!

    23. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by SkyDude · · Score: 1

      because we're Americans dammit! Yes it's true, we pay for incoming cell calls too. The cell companies here are ripping the public off, and if consumers could ever band together to change things, there would be changes. But, I have less of a problem paying for convenience services. ATM fees can be avoided here, just go to the local food market, buy a pack of gum and use your debit card. Request cash back and skip the fees - and get some Juicy Fruit too! We get all upset when banks raise their fees, but surprisingly, not so upset when the local pols raise taxes.

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    24. Re:And they'll pass the cost savings on to... by SkyDude · · Score: 1

      Uh oh....saracasm detector has gone into alarm mode......

      In another post, I agreed the convenience fee is not a problem for me anyway. My original post stated that the ATMs were all free at one time, and the banks couldn't do enough to get you to use them.

      But as I also said elsewhere, the fees can be avoided by stopping in at the local supermarket, drugstore or some other retailer, buying a pack of Juicy Fruit and using your debit with a cashback transaction.

      And yes, I should be able to use another business' machine. I'm a consumer dammit!

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
  2. Plan B by biocute · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I sure hope they have taken into account for SMS delay, SMS MIA, deleted SMS, lost mobile phone, hacked/guessed barcode and whatnot. In short, is there a Plan B when someone lost this eTicket, or a cracker guessed/keygened a barcode and used it before the real owner did?

    Paperless ticketing, while important, will only cause monetary loss, imagine if a country is crazy enough to adapt paperless voting where voters don't get a "vote receipt" in case something or someone messed up the results.

    1. Re:Plan B by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmm, why would the barcode need to be hacked/guessed? Why not just pull it straight out of the air? Or is SMS more secure than I thought?

      imagine if a country is crazy enough to adapt paperless voting where voters don't get a "vote receipt" in case something or someone messed up the results.

      What, you mean like the US of A?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    2. Re:Plan B by slart42 · · Score: 1

      while all these issues are valid, people often forget that the conventional methods used for ages are usually much less secure. What about lost/stolen/conterfeit paper tickets?
      When i first started to use online banking several years back, many came to me saying: "but is this save?". Well not perfectly, but since I found out that my bank would let me withdraw 5000 german marks from my bank account, without seeing any proof of ID, customer card, or any document at all for that matter, I'm certain it's more secure then traditional banking.

    3. Re:Plan B by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Plan B by op12 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to mention with so many cellphones with cameras, would it be that hard to take a picture of someone else's barcode?

    5. Re:Plan B by aonaran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow, if ticket takers are willing to accept a barcode displayed on an LCD I imagine that it'll only be a matter of tiem till someone writes a Java phone program that quickly cycles through a bunch of random barcode numbers till it hits on one that the system accepts.

      You'd probably have several seconds to do it before the person scanning it gives up trying to scan the "bad phone display" and tries another way to verify the ticket.

    6. Re:Plan B by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I'd be willing to bet, given their environmentalist slant, that B&J are democrats. Get your free gallon of oil is more likely.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Plan B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While paperless ticketing may be similar to paperless voting it is not nearly as complex because it does not need to be anonymous.

    8. Re:Plan B by slashname3 · · Score: 1

      Why guess the bar code? Just send it on to multiple phones. The system could allow the first one through and block any duplicates. Which works great as long as all that communications gear is up and running. Would take a minor glitch and none of those tickets could be validated.

      imagine if a country is crazy enough to adapt paperless voting where voters don't get a "vote receipt" in case something or someone messed up the results.

      The voters don't get a vote receipt. There needs to be a paper trail so the votes can be verified. If only electronic tallies are kept there is no way to prove the votes registered electronically are correct. With a paper trail the electronic tally can be verified.

    9. Re:Plan B by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      I sure hope they have taken into account for SMS delay, SMS MIA, deleted SMS, lost mobile phone, hacked/guessed barcode and whatnot. In short, is there a Plan B when someone lost this eTicket, or a cracker guessed/keygened a barcode and used it before the real owner did?

      Why would you expect them to?

      Brick and mortar places don't care if you lose a gift certificate, for example. If you lose your paper ticket, you can't convince them you really did buy a ticket but must have accidentally flushed it when you went to the loo before the film.

      Stores like nothing more than a situation where through purchaser carelessness they collect money and never actually give you a service in return. Heck, think about the fact that gift certificates often expire with no recourse to recoup the funds.

      If your SMS is lost, accidentally deleted, never actually delivered, misplaced, or part of a stolen phone -- you've helped to increase their profitibility. But there are a lot of examples for 'real' objects in which the loss of it is your problem not theirs.

      It sucks, but once they've collected your money, they don't care what you do with the voucher.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Plan B by djtack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not likely to work, imagine 50,000 tickets, and a 16-byte bar code. That gives a 50000/2**128 chance to guess one at random. If you could scan a hundred codes per second, it would take 2**128/50000/3600/24/365/100 = 2.2e+24 years to get one right, which is about 160 trillion times the age of the known universe.

    11. Re:Plan B by CharlieHedlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Texas Motor speedway uses paper tickets with barcodes. They scan on entrance and exit to allow readmission. I am fairly certain I could take a color copy of a ticket and get right in, or even copy the barcode to a blank piece of paper. I have always had season tickets, but I believe they even offer an email delivery option for the tickets now.

      The barcodes apear to be randomly generated and of sufficient length to stop anyone from brute force hacking when the validation is checked by a person standing with a PDA pressing the button on each read.

      Before they started this system I lost my tickets. They will issue vouchers for season ticket holders in this event, and aparently they recorded the numbers of all the stubs collected after the event. I was told if my tickets came through I would get a bill for the duplicates.

      The bar codes were on the tickets before the system was in place. What puzzled me was that it was on the main ticket, and not the stub that was collected. Now that they scan on entry they no longer collect the stubs.

      It seems like the cell phone and barcodes is only a small step from the above, which has been tested and worked very will at events with attendance of nearly 250k.

    12. Re:Plan B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure it *could* take that long if you are as lucky as the one legged blind dog, or you *could* get it correct with the very first code.

    13. Re:Plan B by aonaran · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's assuming no prior knowledge of what constitutes a valid bar code.
      I seriously doubt that the bar codes would be completely random numbers.

    14. Re:Plan B by aonaran · · Score: 1

      For that matter I serously doubt that the bar codes map to any Non-alphanumeric characters in ASCII that alone brings your set of possibilitys down to a more manageable chunk.

    15. Re:Plan B by marshallh · · Score: 1

      I hope they will implement some sort of re-sending method... just to receive a text message, takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 30 minutes.
      Just imagine, buying a ticket online 20 mins before you go to the theater, and still be waiting for it by the time you get there?

      Looks like building a risky enterprise on a relatively new and unreliable technology. After all, doesn't SMS seem to be an afterthough with most cell networks?

    16. Re:Plan B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you thought the lines were bad already!

    17. Re:Plan B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually all you have to do if th sensor is not being watched is find out the resolution of the scanner (how many times per second it tries to retrieve the barcode and get a small screen, preferably hand held, and have it do a brute force. Since they are likely given out in continous blocks just split the range up to manageable slices (i.e. if it scans 10x per second, there are 10Million possibles and there are at least 10K tickets sold on the block you would: 10M / 10K == 1K barcodes to generate) assuming you have to go through all of them it would take about 100 seconds or 1:40 (MM:SS) sitting with your device under the reader before you would get in.

      Could take longer ... good luck ;)

    18. Re:Plan B by Nikker · · Score: 1

      Hey get this,

      With bluetooth you could even make the process disributed between many phones, once one gets the right block it lets evreyone else in on the find and narrows it down!

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    19. Re:Plan B by miro+f · · Score: 1

      wow, GSM utilizes encryption for encryption! you learn something new everyday

      that link told me pretty much nothing

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    20. Re:Plan B by PatrickThomson · · Score: 1

      Whoever modded this flamebait, get a fucking clue. The possibility of buying votes was the official stated reason for *not* issuing receipts for e-votes cast.

      --
      I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    21. Re:Plan B by digitalchinky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It doesn't matter what the phone uses 'over the air', your SMS can still be read out of the CCITT 7 which is beamed as part of a bog standard timeslot in a completely unencrypted T1/E1 between the cell station and the exchange. (Or mulitplexed in some other standard manner) Encryption usually only happens between the phone and the cell station, nowhere else along the chain.

      It'll cost a small chunk for the equipment, though all of it can be obtained off the shelf. Spec An, RX equipment, downconverters, modems, digital capture card, pc.

    22. Re:Plan B by janzen · · Score: 1

      Well, you'd have to get very close to the other person's phone in order to be able to take a sufficiently detailed picture of the barcode, so presumably this would be done with his consent. No different, really, than if he had just forwarded you the SMS in the first place.

      Problem is, the barcodes are scanned at the door. What happens if your buddy gets to the show before you do? One of you won't be allowed in.

      Furthermore, if the designers of this system know the first thing about cryptography, they'll have encoded the phone number to which the legitimate SMS was sent into the barcode itself. So it'll be no problem for the event organizers to figure out which one of you is the scammer.

    23. Re:Plan B by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      for that matter, I seriously doubt that a *bar*-code on a display 128 pixels wide will contain 16 bytes of information.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    24. Re:Plan B by Igmuth · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd imagine it could contain a heck of a lot more than 16 bytes of information. First off, 128 pixels, (assuming only on and off) IS 16 bytes of info. Secondly, the article is refering to 2d bar codes, which if you used a full 128x128 screen (Yes, I realize many screens are smaller), which would give you a whole 2k of data on the screen. Now even once if you were to allow for smaller screens, and other overhead (alignment perhaps) 16 bytes is very reasonable.

    25. Re:Plan B by nerdus · · Score: 1

      my email is nerysrees@bigpond.com please trust me enough to contact me brendan.

  3. Like public transport in finland by slart42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've seen the same system in use for public transport tickets in Helsinki. People send an sms to some number, and the fare is deducted from their phone bill. As a proof of purchase the get a text message, which can be shown to the conductor on ticket controls..

    1. Re:Like public transport in finland by bynary · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...the fare is deducted from their phone bill.

      So if you buy enough public transit tickets your phone usage is free?

      --
      http://www.bynarystudio.com
    2. Re:Like public transport in finland by Freexe · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hope they never introduce a system like that in London, I'd rather pay the £30 phone bill!

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    3. Re:Like public transport in finland by MonkeyCookie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the turnaround time is quick enough, I imagine that some individuals might only pay for tickets via SMS when they see the ticket controller coming towards them and ride free the rest of the time.

    4. Re:Like public transport in finland by corbettw · · Score: 1

      If the turnaround time is quick enough, I imagine that some individuals might only pay for tickets via SMS when they see the ticket controller coming towards them and ride free the rest of the time.

      It would be trivial to put a timestamp on the ticket. If yours is from after the train left the station, it's no good. Or better yet, just have the system bill you an extra couple (bucks|quid|whatever the slang term for moolah is in Finland) for buying the ticket after the train left the station. How hard is that?

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    5. Re:Like public transport in finland by de_valentin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The real advantage for the average concert fan is that it makes it a lot harder for someone to buy all the tickets and go and sell them online for twice the normal value which I know is a major problem in Belgium and the Netherlands. As long as you can't just send the sms to the next guy.

      --
      It's no big deal some of my best friends are M$ certified engineers
    6. Re:Like public transport in finland by drrnwbb · · Score: 1

      turnaround is about 10-20seconds. (only once have i waited more than 20seconds for the reply). you have to write a code ("A 641" for finnish or "AS 641" for swedish) and send it to the number "16353". the sms message you get sent to you has a code that incorporates the time and date, then it states the time the ticket was bought, when it expires (an hour later) and what forms of travel its valid on (trams, some buses, trains, a boat). the sms ticket cost is 2

    7. Re:Like public transport in finland by kaarlov · · Score: 1

      That's why they implemented a small delay into the system. I don't remember is it 30 seconds or one minute. And you have to have the "ticket" before you enter the train or tram.

      Still not foolproof but there has always been many easy ways to ride the trams, train, and subway free in Helsinki. Even the fine you get if caught, is relatively low, 66 euros nowadays.

    8. Re:Like public transport in finland by tsvk · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...except that the public transport SMS tickets in Helsinki are normal textual messages, not specialized image barcodes, like in the article.

    9. Re:Like public transport in finland by Politburo · · Score: 1

      66 euros is low? That's $80. IIRC, most of the fines in New Jersey for riding without a ticket start at $25 and max out at $100.

    10. Re:Like public transport in finland by sameeer · · Score: 1

      I think he means they charge it your your phone bill, like buying games/ringtones etc online..

      Also, not that it matters all that much, it costs customers to receive sms in some cell phone plans.. it might be more expensive to receive mms (which might be required in order to receive the bar code as a picture.. unless they create the bar code using the normal characters used in textual sms..)

    11. Re:Like public transport in finland by iNetRunner · · Score: 1

      Well, even better than that, it was maybe three years ago (if I remember correctly.. I could be wrong about the year) at Koneisto music festival in Helsinki (Finland), that I paid the ticket through online banking and received a barcode message to my phone. Then I gained entrance by showing it to a scanner at the event.. So this is new, eh??

      --
      Store with salt
    12. Re:Like public transport in finland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say turnaround is 10 secs tops. IIRC they talked about introducing a longer delay but I've never witnessed it myself. It should've been a feature of the system from the get-go if you ask me, if only because the lack of a delay makes cheating the system all too easy if you're willing to pay attention.

      I have to admit that I've actually used it once when I saw controllers waiting at a tram stop. I had the code typed in and ready to send with one push of a button. The message you receive does include a rather long code of some sort which I imagine they could type into their handheld scanner thingies to check its validity (they scan people's electronic bus passes with those devices), or they could at least check the time stamp of the SMS (though I'm sure you could fake the stamp somehow) - but they never seem to.

      Normally I buy a month pass, of course.. but hey, I'm just a poor student :p

      This is in the Helsinki metropolitan area BTW, and cheating only works on the metro and the tram. If you use the bus you have to enter from the front door and either show your ticket (SMS or paper) to the driver or wave your electronic bus pass at a scanner which beeps if your good.

  4. This is a bummer... by east+coast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How will I save my ticket stub for my collection? Ticket stubs are badges of honor among certain fans.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    1. Re:This is a bummer... by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      Print it or keep the SMS.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    2. Re:This is a bummer... by Naomi_the_butterfly · · Score: 1

      In israel we get a printed ticket at the gate, as reciept. It's identical to any other ticket. It's then torn off like a regular as you go in, so you have your seating info.

    3. Re:This is a bummer... by Satan+Dumpling · · Score: 1

      I agree, I don't even like the "ticketfast" tickets from Ticketmaster you print on your own printer.
      What I really find hysterical is that Ticketbastards charges extra for that when they save money by not mailing your tickets!
      Now, I can see paying for a movie this way. Hold your phone to a machine on the way in and skip the line, like the credit card machine does now.
      But there's a HUGE difference between trusting it with a $6 matinee and a $130 Ozzfest pit ticket.
      And then what if your phone runs out of juice?

    4. Re:This is a bummer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, just imagine what your existing stub collection will be worth once ticket stubs are memories of a bygone era.

    5. Re:This is a bummer... by MrP-(at+work) · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself! (ok you were heh) but I keep every movie ticket stub I get.

      I've never been to a concert.

      --
      [an error occurred while processing this directive]
    6. Re:This is a bummer... by antiaktiv · · Score: 1

      Just find a somewhat normal person and ask them if you can have theirs.

    7. Re:This is a bummer... by Peldor · · Score: 2, Funny
      How will I save my ticket stub for my collection? Ticket stubs are badges of honor among certain fans.

      You'll have to buy a new phone. The whole thing is a plot by Nokia.

    8. Re:This is a bummer... by novus+ordo · · Score: 1

      Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!

      --
      "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    9. Re:This is a bummer... by m50d · · Score: 1

      You save the text message. Duh...

      --
      I am trolling
    10. Re:This is a bummer... by tailgate · · Score: 1

      You will still have to old method of having tickets shipped to you. Just like you have to option to purchase e-tickets (emailed) or paper tickets (shipped). You would just wouldnt have to pay shipping charges, they would make up some other b/s charge that would be cheaper. Also, this would be great for last minute purchases.

    11. Re:This is a bummer... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      " How will I save my ticket stub for my collection? Ticket stubs are badges of honor among certain fans."

      Um...don't use the service and purchase a regular ticket? Just a guess.....

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    12. Re:This is a bummer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fyi, the ticketfast charge is because well over 50% of all customer service calls from all sales are from people having trouble printing the ticket. acrobat, paper jam, ink problems, etc.

  5. Let's see if I got this straight by slapout · · Score: 4, Funny

    So you buy the ticket on your cell phone, have to bring the phone to the theater with you, and then the first thing they tell you when you sit down is "Please turn off your cell phone"?

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re:Let's see if I got this straight by jesser · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, this might make it easier to remember to turn off your cell phone while watching a movie.

      --
      The shareholder is always right.
    2. Re:Let's see if I got this straight by gnud · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that camera phones are actually illegal in most theaters and on most concerts.

  6. Old news in Korea by neoshmengi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Koreans have been doing this for years. To promote it they gave you a discount if you used the cell phone technique.

    It makes a lot of sense. It's convenient to order the tickets, also via cell phone, and then you don't have to wait in line. And everyone there has a cell phone.

    Funfact: In South Korea when you buy a movie ticket, you can buy a particular seat, like at a sports game.

    1. Re:Old news in Korea by biocute · · Score: 1

      I bet only young people in Korea use this service?

      I know many who do not (or simply refuse) to have a mobile phone, so if mobile users get a discount, non mobile users (that is, traditional consumers) will truly be disadvantaged.

    2. Re:Old news in Korea by cnettel · · Score: 1
      Fun fact: It confused me as hell when I decided to see Serenity at my last visit in the U.S. There were a few different codes on the ticket. I really tried to figure out which one might be the seat. After a while, I decided that it was hopefully free seating. (Of course, the seating is sometimes free in Sweden, in really small cinemas or unofficial screenings.)

      Thanks to Yahoo for giving me the free tickets!

    3. Re:Old news in Korea by attam · · Score: 0, Troll

      In South Korea

      i forget, is that the good korea or the bad korea?

    4. Re:Old news in Korea by neoshmengi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cell phones are unbelievably ubiquitous in Korea. Old people have them, elementary kids have them, I've even seen homeless people with them. I never met anybody in Korea who didn't have a cell phone. It has become a way of life.

      That being said, I would image that younger people are more likely to use the service.

    5. Re:Old news in Korea by GeorgeMcBay · · Score: 1


      Funfact: In South Korea when you buy a movie ticket, you can buy a particular seat, like at a sports game.


      There are assigned seating movie theatres here in the USA as well (I've been to a few of them in New York City), though obviously the general admission style is a lot more common.

    6. Re:Old news in Korea by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 1

      So are you, in essence, saying that
      "In Korea, only old people buy cell-phone tickets?"

      --
      Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
    7. Re:Old news in Korea by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Informative

      After a while, I decided that it was hopefully free seating.

      Cultural tip for those from outside the US: here, it is extremely rare for movie showings to have assigned seating. In almost all cases, moviegoers are welcome to sit in any free seat in the theater once they have been admitted.

      Other types of events -- sports, theater, classical music -- most often DO have assigned seats. Popular music concerts are split: often there will be reserved seating and unreserved standing room in different parts of the vanue at the same event.

    8. Re:Old news in Korea by pankajsethi · · Score: 1

      Old story,
      Rest of the world does this. I was pretty surprised to see that in US I can't reserve a particular seat in advance.

    9. Re:Old news in Korea by haakoneide · · Score: 1

      Funfact: In South Korea when you buy a movie ticket, you can buy a particular seat, like at a sports game.

      In all of Europe too.

    10. Re:Old news in Korea by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Funfact: In South Korea when you buy a movie ticket, you can buy a particular seat, like at a sports game.

      You CAN'T? I don't think I've ever been to one where you can't. Much better system, no waiting long in advance and/or rushing to get good seats. For the best seats you need to book when the ticket sales open, like the LotR movies we generally reserved in september for seats in december (no, we didn't stand out and freeze to death, those got *the* best seats but...) Then again we wanted the best seats at the best screen, rather that premiere night.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Old news in Korea by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Well that's clearly a silly system. If you book a specific seat in advance, then how are they going to make you sit through the trailers and ads? Turning up in time to get a good seat is about the only incentive they have at the moment.

      For the record, in the UK it depends on the cinema. My local one only rarely assigns seating (RotS had assigned seats, I can't think of anything else that did) and most of the time I have been there only about 20% of seats have been taken when I've arrived about ten minutes late (and missed the ads, and some of the trailers).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Old news in Korea by green1 · · Score: 1

      to force you to show up on time here we have a random legth of trailers/ads before a movie, I've seen anywhere from zero (yes, the movie actually started at the start time, I was shocked!) up to over 20 minutes worth of advertising before the show, problem is, if you just decide to be late, it'll be one of the rare zero ad movies...

      and I have never even heard of assigned seats in a movie theatre around here (Canada)

    13. Re:Old news in Korea by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      False. I am Portuguese and that doesn't happen here. It is total crap when the movie if full. Sometime ago, I went with three friends and we sat down on the stairs because the damn thing was full. Some employee bitched so much that we eventually sliped up.

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
    14. Re:Old news in Korea by nfk · · Score: 1

      I am Portuguese too, and that is definitely possible here, although not everywhere. Have you never been in a theatre where ushers take you to your assigned seat with those little flashlights, when you get there late? See this website too, you can even book your seats online, for a fee: http://cinema.sapo.pt/

      You're missing out!

    15. Re:Old news in Korea by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've seen such cinemas, but like when I was 8 :). The only situations when I see this still happening is when you book your ticket for popular movies... Well, I thought it was only for popular movies, I see that you can book for any. But I doubt some guy will give his seat to a weak guy like myself if I've book-ed it in advance. ;)

      Anyway, it doesn't bother me much, since it is just a matter of arriving early. What bothers me is that you pay so much in Portugal for a ticket (at least comparing to the avarage income) for unconfortable seats (c'mon, they should even be adjustable!), the lack of interval (they sell drinks and won't do a pause ;D), and the high prices of pop-corns and drinks (they are big, but c'mon! -- I always buy stuff on the mol's supermarket ;)). The front seats should also disapear -- I've once sat there, and it was a life-time nightmare. I should sue the bastards. ;)

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
    16. Re:Old news in Korea by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      BTW, this is why I mostly just rent movies from Blockbuster nowadays, and a few friends of mine get them from the net.

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
    17. Re:Old news in Korea by nfk · · Score: 1

      If you are in Lisbon, you might want to go to the Cinemateca (www.cinemateca.pt), where you can see old movies for 2,5. This Friday they are even showing Last Action Hero, but they mostly play classic movies, or movies related to some theme. I'm going there for a Buster Keaton movie tonight!

    18. Re:Old news in Korea by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      (já ninguém vai ler isto, pelo que pode ir em português. :))

      Sou do Porto e já fui a algo do género puxado por um amigo. O meu problema é saber a programação (esses do cinemateca foram muito inteligentes ao a disponibilizarem online -- é pena é ser preciso mudar a identificação para IE), e também o pessoal gostar de ir ao shopping. Mas hei-de ver se lá o sítio onde fui já tem página na net.

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
  7. about time by tehlinux · · Score: 0

    This is the first interesting thing I've seen a mobile phone do in a long time!

    --
    Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
  8. Oh good... by Quaoar · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now people will have a REASON for bringing their cell phones to a movie...*Grumble*

    --
    I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    1. Re:Oh good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now people will have a REASON for bringing their cell phones to a movie

      I'm not sure what universe you're from, but you obviously haven't visited a movie theater since the 90's - go back to yelling at kids from the rocking chair on your front porch.

      Most people don't have fixed phone lines anymore - it's simpler and easier to carry a cell phone with them as part of the minimal accessories of a modern western lifestyle: Coat, wallet, keys, phone. You're set. Being amazed that people have a reason to bring their cell phone with them is as stupid as expecting you if you have a reason to bring your watch or wallet with you - when it's obviously part of your attire.

      They've been putting up "please turn your phone off" messages up at the start of the show for at least the past five years - and those messages work.

      I always have a my cell phone with me at a movie.

      I always turn it off (hell, *I* want to be able to enjoy the movie in peace).

      I also don't understand irrational cellphone haters - although I suppose it gives you something to whine about.

  9. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet this reader will be in the box office, which means its no better than me calling/webbing in my reservations and picking up my tickets. Plus that method doesn't require I have an accursed mobile phone.

  10. Heard at Woodstock anniversary concert... by LM741N · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey man- there's some bad RAM going around out there. Be careful.

    1. Re:Heard at Woodstock anniversary concert... by digitaldc · · Score: 1

      Don't eat the brown NiCd.

      --
      He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  11. Mobile phone TOS/disclaimers by twiggy · · Score: 1

    Given that almost every mobile phone company has either in their TOS, or in disclaimers, that they cannot guarantee the arrival of text messages, I don't see how this could work reliably. Arguments could constantly be made that "the message never came", etc.

    Also, there are still a lot of people without cell phones, or with older ones that won't display high-res enough graphics for the bar codes to be scanned.

    Bad idea jeans, IMHO.

    --
    http://www.babysmasher.com
    http://www.openingbands.com
    1. Re:Mobile phone TOS/disclaimers by xC0000005 · · Score: 1

      If it's like the ones at the last event I went to, once a particular ticket is scanned, the system won't accept that particular code again. So the company could send the same message over and over if a user requested a resend (within a period) without fear of someone reusing the code. Now, delay, no helping that. Re-admission was combined with ticket scan and hand stamp.

      --
      www.voiceofthehive.com - Beekeeping and Honeybees for those who don't.
  12. And... by Poromenos1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What happens if you accidentally delete the message (some phones delete messages if you remove the battery or whatever)? Can they resend it to you, or are you SOL?

    P.S. You can order seats here in Greece too, in large multiplexes.

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
    1. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happens if you accidentaly drops the paper ticket, or set it on fire?

    2. Re:And... by !equal · · Score: 2, Funny

      It respawns at a new location.

  13. SMS? by BarryNorton · · Score: 1
    Do they mean MMS? I suspect so, as they're not even talking about GSM:
    "In addition, users must have mobile phones supporting packet-based technologies, such as GPRS (General Packet Radio Service) or 3G (third-generation)"
    1. Re:SMS? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If they're talking about GPRS, then they're talking about GSM.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:SMS? by mendaliv · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe they're ASCII art barcodes.

    3. Re:SMS? by BarryNorton · · Score: 1

      True, true... still called GSM when GPRS piggybacks... Still, not SMS right?

    4. Re:SMS? by EricJay · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, it could still be SMS - user gets a link via SMS, and then activates it to launch their handset's web browser, which would load the bar-code as an image. So technically, the ticket arrives over GPRS or other 3G data service, but the link to it arrives via SMS.

    5. Re:SMS? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can send SMS via TCP/IP over GPRS. If you have internet but not SMS you can reconfigure your phone to do this, and save a bundle.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:SMS? by nachoboy · · Score: 1

      You can send SMS via TCP/IP over GPRS. If you have internet but not SMS you can reconfigure your phone to do this, and save a bundle.

      Can you explain a bit further? I have a new phone with an unlimited data plan, but they still charge me $.10 for each incoming/outgoing SMS message, and $.25 for each incoming/outgoing MMS message.

      I've explored all the options on my phone, but perhaps my phone doesn't allow such a setting, or I'm missing something.

    7. Re:SMS? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Generally speaking this is not available as a configuration option on your phone. I don't know if anyone else's phones do it, but you can do it on Motorola phones - I know for sure that it can be done on all Triplets phones (Which is every flip phone but the RAZR, AFAIK.) However, you probably need Motorola PST, which is their corporate service tool and you can't buy it. It might also be possible to do it with a SEEM file editor like P2KMan or SEEMedit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  14. not reliable enough by pvt_medic · · Score: 1

    Eh, they better have a plan B. I see this as a real source of potential problems. Who takes responsibility for errors? Trouble with the delivery of the message, trouble with the phone, and how are they sure that this system cant be duped either. For where there is a will there is a way.

    --
    30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
    Score:5, Troll
    1. Re:not reliable enough by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

      Mostly very good points.

      and how are they sure that this system cant be duped either.

      Well, digital signatures may be one solution for authenticating the message source.

    2. Re:not reliable enough by Tankko · · Score: 1

      >>I see this as a real source of potential problems.

      What problems? If doing it electronically is good enough for voting, it's good enough for getting into the movies.

  15. Already in use for years... by Naomi_the_butterfly · · Score: 2, Informative

    Dang... we've been using that in israel for movies for years. Just a number in text message, though, no barcode. They type it in and check that the credit card you have with you matches the card that that ticket number is registered under and you're in.

    1. Re:Already in use for years... by knight37 · · Score: 1

      Dang... we've been using that in israel for movies for years. Just a number in text message, though, no barcode. They type it in and check that the credit card you have with you matches the card that that ticket number is registered under and you're in.

      That sounds painfully inefficient. They actually type in numbers and have you get out a CC for each and every person entering the concert? In the USA we generally have paper tickets, be they mailed or e-ticket (printed on home printer), and they just scan them with a barcode reader as you enter. Much faster.

      --
      Knight37 - Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer
    2. Re:Already in use for years... by Naomi_the_butterfly · · Score: 1

      Both of those are also options here... the specific program I described was in conjunction with a cellphone company that gave a free ticket to x theater chain every week. They'd have used the barcode thing, I think, but there are some users who don't have MMS ready cells, and a text-based code is pretty simple. Truth is, it takes just about as long to type in the ticket number as it does for me to say "Two for Narnia"... this way I do it on the phone before I get there and just show it when I arrive and the ticket prints out. It's just one of many options for ordering tickets.

  16. Combat counterfeit? by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Right, cause no one can figure out how to get a phone to draw a bar code except this company...

    They can counterfeit a barcode on a ticket to get into Madison Square Garden. They can most certainly figure out how to draw the image on a phone's screen.

    1. Re:Combat counterfeit? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When used properly, unique numbers (with or without a barcode) are a good method for providing security. You assign psuedorandom values in a range to purchasers and then register the numbers in the database as valid for a particular event. The numbers can be checked at the location of the event. I'm getting ready to propose a ticketing system to my employer (currently we mark off sold seats on a piece of paper with the seating diagram printed on it, and sell tickets manually by phone, no internet sales) and this is one of the required "technologies". (More like a methodology. And a common one.) At the door, people with WiFi-equipped barcode readers (which are really general purpose computers) will scan the tickets (whether they are mailed, sold in-house, or print-at-home) and let us know if they are valid or not.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Combat counterfeit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    3. Re:Combat counterfeit? by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know that. I don't disagree at all. Yet counterfeiters are still able to print unused valid unique IDs (as barcodes) on paper tickets. Therefore they will be able to do the same on a cell phone.

    4. Re:Combat counterfeit? by arose · · Score: 1

      If your system is bad enough not to check if a particular number is used or not....

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  17. Excellent... by Sgt_Jake · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now we can further separate the technocracy from the unwashed masses who don't have cell phones or know how to use them. Holding the population in thrall is becoming easier every day...

    1. Re:Excellent... by corbettw · · Score: 1

      Now we can further separate the technocracy from the unwashed masses who don't have cell phones or know how to use them. Holding the population in thrall is becoming easier every day...

      Did you see "Blackhawk Down"? Remember the scene when the US troops start their airlift into Mogadishu? Remember the little boy on the rooftop, reporting their movement with a (wait for it...) cell phone?? And that happened over 10 years ago, and cell phones were still common enough in one of the poorest nations on earth that they were used by common people. There are countries in Africa today who still don't have hot water and electricity in every home, but everyone's got a cell phone. So I don't see this as a "tool of the technocracy", I see this as bringing progress to people over thin air.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:Excellent... by schmu_20mol · · Score: 1

      Fully agree to your honor... never possessed one and loathe the fact that I might will ever have to... argh

      --
      "Nae Kin! Nae Quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willna be fooled again!"
    3. Re:Excellent... by Sgt_Jake · · Score: 1
      There are countries in Africa today who still don't have hot water and electricity in every home, but everyone's got a cell phone.

      Yep. That's progress. I guess with that cell phone that very same kid, now old enough to get into an R rated movie, will even be able to get into a theater and see "Blackhawk Down" using Skidata's bar code! Although I'm at a loss as to how they'd power the projector without electricity... or charge their phones... OH! Let's just ignore that little inconsistency and wonder if maybe they're all getting ipods they can watch movies on, so they don't NEED electricity for the projector! And of course we all know that tracking troops in Africa is a more important than hot water or electricity. Ahhh progress... Makes me kind of wonder if they get unlimited day time minutes to discuss the widespread poverty, famine and war.

      They are going to make a great continent of consumers, they're already in love with technology and entertainment. Of course, I was only referring to the 9 out of 10 cell phone owners in America who have never sent a text message over their phones in their lives, but good call! Thumbs up man!

  18. Where are the privacy advocates on this one? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Let's see now, allowing the FBI to go to the library to see what books you've been reading is BAD, but a system that allows practically anybody to track what movies, concerts, sporting events, etc. you go to is GOOD?!? (And I have no doubt that this data will be available to anyone willing to pay for it, as much of your cell phone records already are!)

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Where are the privacy advocates on this one? by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1
      I don't really trust the Government(s) not to misuse my data now that it seems there are a few free speech issues and they can invade any aspect of any of their citizens.

      The disadvantages of such privacy invading schemes where my buying habits can be tracked don't seem to bother me so much; something like my mobile phone number being associated with several movie tickets won't give them all the details necessary to "be me".

      I don't get phone calls I haven't asked for, I don't receive mail or email i don't want. It's easy if you put a small amount of time in to click remove links in legitimate emails, and you just need to register free of charge once for telephone & mail preference companys, so organisations can't send you junkmail or cannot call them.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
  19. Print barcode on ticket? by noidentity · · Score: 1

    "The new technology also claims to help combat the counterfeit, pilferage, and repeat use that can be such a problem for paper tickets."

    Print the barcode on the ticket and then tickets are just as secure as this scheme. If a virtual ticket on a mobile phone is good enough, so is a thermal prinout from the even more common thermal printers that are almost everywhere these days.

  20. Wrong title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't the title be "Text Messages as Admission Tickets"?

    1. Re:Wrong title. by lee1 · · Score: 1

      Isn't "as" commutative?

  21. sounds good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as long as i dont have to pay the ticketmaster gouging fee!!

    -DB

    1. Re:sounds good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as long as i dont have to pay the ticketmaster gouging fee!!

      No you won't, but you will have to pay the textmessagemaster gouging fee.

  22. Batteries by se2schul · · Score: 1

    A plan B is definitely required. Imagine being denied admittance due to the cell phone battery being dead.

  23. And what will they do to combat the problems... by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    ...the problems of legitimate paying customers whose credit cards will be charged but who will be unable to gain admission because their cell phone is unexpectedly incompatible, has a display that for whatever reason isn't readable, battery goes dead while waiting in line, whatever...

    1. Re:And what will they do to combat the problems... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      easy a couple of ways 1 use a method similar to gift cards where the pin number is hidden behind that silver gunk (you need to reply to the message to have the barcode validate) 2 have a timeout built into the system (ie if you don't use the "ticket" for some reason the transcation get backed out)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  24. open code by in-tech · · Score: 0

    You are aware of the security loop hole for WMF, in which case the 3rd party tool was the one to beat you. Regarding this, do you think that open source will solve this problem or create more problem/s? I guess you are also aware that if you can't solve the problem you created, than people from far East has a traditional custom of throwing rotten eggs and tomatos.

  25. use the by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 1

    camera on your phone to take a picture of the screen, .....ohh wait maybe they could enable some sort of screen cap for phones os

  26. Tried it, seat but my seat was already occupied by whyde · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...by an NSA agent.

  27. Works on Tallinn/Estonia by wigry · · Score: 1

    In Tallinn Estonia we have quite similar system working already for some time now. No cellphones used though but the ticket admission over internet is possible. After paying, you will be presented with ticket on your web browser, which you just have to print out and take it to the movie theater, where the barcode reader is used to validate the ticket. There is a big warning though, that the first person with given barcode will get to the theater and all other attempts to enter will fail, so keep your ticket secret. Anyway, it works quite nicely (at least I have managed to get to see all the movies where I've bought the ticket over the internet :) ) The main benefit is no waiting in the lines. Actually they should sell the web tickets bit cheaper as there is no paper expenses for the theater, but they just make bigger profit by keeping the prices the same.

  28. What? by punkr0x · · Score: 1

    How does this combat counterfieting, pilfering and repeat usage? Are they saying a txt message is harder to generate than a realistic looking ticket?? Or a cell phone is harder to steal? Or that they're going to rip your cell phone in half once you pass through the gate? I can see some convenience advantages but I really don't understand that statement.

    1. Re:What? by Bassman59 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      How does this combat counterfieting, pilfering and repeat usage? Are they saying a txt message is harder to generate than a realistic looking ticket?? Or a cell phone is harder to steal? Or that they're going to rip your cell phone in half once you pass through the gate? I can see some convenience advantages but I really don't understand that statement.

      Presumably, the "tickets" are generated uniquely by some mechanism that's "difficult" to hack. And once you go through the turnstile, your "ticket" is scanned and the database to which the scanner is connected marks it as used. This is no different from paper tickets with barcodes that are scanned at the gate.

      -a

    2. Re:What? by punkr0x · · Score: 1

      This is no different from paper tickets with barcodes that are scanned at the gate. Exactly.. so it's just as easy to counterfiet, pilfer, use repeatedly, or otherwise scam the hell out of... that's good!

    3. Re:What? by Bassman59 · · Score: 1
      Exactly.. so it's just as easy to counterfiet, pilfer, use repeatedly, or otherwise scam the hell out of... that's good!

      Have you ever tried to reuse a paper ticket once it's been scanned?

    4. Re:What? by punkr0x · · Score: 1

      No. My point is merely that this new innovation (putting the barcode on a cell phone) does not make it any more difficult to reuse the ticket, since it's the same exact system on a different medium. The article seems to suggest that putting the barcode on a cell phone increases the security, somehow.

  29. First, you must buy a device by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    The one advantage to a paper ticket is that you don't have to buy anything extra and you can save the stub for your collection.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:First, you must buy a device by Rallion · · Score: 1

      That was two advantages.

    2. Re:First, you must buy a device by drewsome · · Score: 0

      the two advantages to a paper ticket are that you don't have to buy anything extra, you can keep the stub for your collection, and if necessary, you can start a small fire to keep yourself warm.

      Three! I mean THREE advantages to a papre ticket are that you don't have to buy anything extra, you can keep the stub for your collection, you can start a small fire to keep yourself warm and you can make an itsy paper airplane with it.

      Four! I mean, the FOUR advantages...

    3. Re:First, you must buy a device by east+coast · · Score: 1

      Dude, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  30. The next step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have the problem of forged tickets and stuff to be sure but I think the bigger deal is saving labor.

    You show your screen to a scanner and you can cut the number of ticket takers to half. All they have to do is make sure you showed your screen to the scanner.

    The next step would be that your ticket becomes a bluetooth transmission. Combined with automated turnstiles, we can cut those pesky ticket takers right out of the equation.

    Having said the above, there are places where forgery is indeed rampant; ski hills for instance. There you have the same number of people checking your lift ticket and they have scanners. So, sometimes, forgery is a problem but I bet that most of the deal is to eliminate jobs, most of the time.

  31. Eh doesn't matter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good thing I'm a geek with no interest in sports, no social life and good downstream. Otherwise this might actually affect me!

  32. Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just have users confirm they got it by replying. If they do not, the ticket is voided after a period of time and they are not charged.

  33. Interesting idea... for a non-Luddite... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    So what if you're a Luddite who use his cell phone only as a phone? Heck, I'm still waiting for the paperless office.

    1. Re:Interesting idea... for a non-Luddite... by fohat · · Score: 1

      If you are a true Luddite, What are you doing with a cell phone in the first place? Now get out there and smash up some Xbox's!

      --
      Is there heaven? Is there Hell? Is that a Tuna Melt I smell?-Primus
    2. Re:Interesting idea... for a non-Luddite... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Every time I mention that I'm only using my cell phone as a phone instead of some high-tech media center toy, I usually get flamed. I'm actually waiting for the prices on the Plain Old Xbox (POX) to drop below $150 USD. ;)

  34. supposed to be for Windows security topic by in-tech · · Score: 0
  35. Tallinn/Estonia? by Sgt_Jake · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Do you get to this magical land through a wardrobe closet somewhere in England?

    1. Re:Tallinn/Estonia? by wigry · · Score: 1

      Well, there are easier options. Just take a plane for example. There ise a direct flight from London to Tallinn and in just a couple of hours you can enjoy our fancy movie ticket system :)

  36. Re:Another major privacy violation by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Another example of useless technology that in reality does not good except require that you have a cell phone with you that adds to the stream of such ridiculous ideas who have shown up after the 2001 law that made it illegal to manufacture cell phones without a tracking chip which makes possible to pinpoint your exact location at all times (for your own protection, obviously).

    It's my understanding that the legislation did mandate positioning but didn't say you had to do it at the phone end, just that you had to do it. Some provider (probably more than one) has a system that just based on triangulation can find you within a couple meters. Thus, they don't NEED to put anything in your cellphone to find you.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  37. Scalpers by bl00d6789 · · Score: 1

    Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else like they might be doing this just to combat scalping of tickets?

    1. Re:Scalpers by Bassman59 · · Score: 1
      Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else like they might be doing this just to combat scalping of tickets?

      I don't think the event promoters really give a shit about scalpers--the promoters (and hence the artists or the sports teams or whomever) get paid for the tickets whether or not the scalper can re-sell them.

      It does present a problem for people who have legit reasons for re-selling a ticket. For example, say you get sick the night of the show and you want to sell (or give) your $100 ticket to a friend. You can do that with a paper ticket, but I don't see how you can transfer the ticket to your friend's phone. (Maybe the system will allow that?)

      BTW: I hate scalpers, and I think people who are willing to overpay $300 for tickets to ANY event are fools.

  38. RFID by tm2b · · Score: 1

    I wonder how long it'll be before they simply have your RFID tag (or the RFID tag of your consumer loyalty card, or whatever) and you'll just be able to walk through the fast entry lane (either having prepurchased, or automatically getting a seat assignment upon entry).

    --
    "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
  39. They used the same for Red Bull railstorm by madaxe42 · · Score: 1

    They used the same for Red Bull railstorm - a snowboarding event in London - I won the ticket, then couldn't make it - so I gave it to a friend - it's designed to not be possible to transfer, but given 5 minutes, a bit of ingenuity, and some sticky backed plastic the ticket was happily on his phone, and he got in without issue. M

  40. Cheat idea by ysegalov · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Let's program our cell-phone to display random barcodes at a fast rate. Put it in front of the barcode reader and wait for a few seconds. If we show enough barcode options, and I assume the barcode reader works fast, we might be able to fall on a valid one.
    How many digits are there in a barcode?

    1. Re:Cheat idea by Naomi_the_butterfly · · Score: 1

      You can make a barcode out of any number of digits.

    2. Re:Cheat idea by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      it's a 2D barcode, which does not contain any actual bars but rather a low resolution bitmap even at only a 10x10 code you have to guess out of 2^100 possibilities, modern cell phones can output at vastly higher than 10x10.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    3. Re:Cheat idea by adrianmonk · · Score: 1
      Let's program our cell-phone to display random barcodes at a fast rate. Put it in front of the barcode reader and wait for a few seconds. If we show enough barcode options, and I assume the barcode reader works fast, we might be able to fall on a valid one.

      This is easily defeated by making the reader require that the barcode is held for 1/2 second or by reading the barcode repeatedly and then sounding an alarm if the barcode changes from one valid barcode (one with a valid checksum) to another valid barcode.

      Yes, you can easily combat that countermeasure of your own, which is slowing down the rate at which you present barcodes to the reader. But since it's a 2D barcode, chances are the number of possible barcodes is HUGE, because there are likely hundreds of bits in such a barcode. That means your chances of getting the valid one quick enough (before someone wonders why you're holding your phone up to the reader for 10 minutes) are virtually nil.

    4. Re:Cheat idea by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      Or have a human reader have to click the 'read' button on the machine. Doubt he'll be willing to hit it at a rate of 1000/sec or more, which would be needed to guess one in under a month or so.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
  41. Scalping? by mendaliv · · Score: 1

    This should take a sizeable chunk out of the ticket scalping business.

    You can probably forward the barcode image to another phone, but the company knows the original purchaser's number, which would be bound to a physical address if I'm not mistaken. All you'd need is someone to blow the whistle...

  42. Are those SMS? by Fr4ncis · · Score: 3, Informative

    Are you sure they send SMS? Short Message Service is used to send just plain text, while MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service) is used to send images as well as music and other nice stuff. I'm not sure you can compose a bar code with an SMS message!

    1. Re:Are those SMS? by EricJay · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mobile barcoding can be done via EMS, which is still technically an SMS transmission... however, the linked article mentions that "users must have mobile phones supporting packet-based technologies, such as GPRS or 3G," so they might be sending a web-link to the barcode image via SMS and relying on the handset's browser to display it.

    2. Re:Are those SMS? by De+Lemming · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure you can compose a bar code with an SMS message!

      That's what the filter "|" symbol is for.
      | || | ||| | |||| || ||

    3. Re:Are those SMS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. you can send small monochrome images as well via the SMS system. You don't necessarily need MMS, and as far as I know it has been done here in Europe for quite some time (i.e. it's no news).

  43. I have a text-only cellphone! by nightsweat · · Score: 1

    You insensitive clod!

    --

    the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
  44. can't wait for TM to get ahold of this by edmicman · · Score: 1

    Surely ticketmaster will add a charge for this "convience" feature. Nevermind it saves them costs or anything. And for the naysayers questioning the security, compatibility of phones, quickness of messages coming through, privacy, etc: I read this to be OPTIONAL, in addition the normal methods of buying tickets. You can still walk up to the box office, pay in cash, and get your tickets. If you don't have a compatible phone, you're SOL, order it online or via the mail. You don't HAVE to use this service. Obviously those with compatible phones will be able to use it. My old phone couldn't download ringtones - I didn't bitch because they were offered but I couldn't partake. I ultimately got a new phone. You probably aren't going to go to the box office, pay, then get a text message with your ticket. I could see it for on the way to the venue, or maybe even while waiting in line. But I'd be sure to prepare for it early enough just to be safe. Just my $.02.

  45. How much does your time worth? by GeekLord · · Score: 1

    Youve got to admit there is good value on skipping a line and buying a ticket on the comfort of your place. Here in Brazil the situation is even worse: I simply cannot see a good movie without buying a ticket a day or two beforehand. So I've got tired of watching movies on SUNDAY MORNINGS... Ticketmaster gave me freedom of choice! Then again, 8 bucks is really expensive... I actually pay R$3,00 for this service, aproximatelly one dollar.

  46. This was tried in India for a Cricket match by GillBates0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...back in 2004: Hi-tech ticketing for India-Australia Test

    FTA:

    The tickets would be delivered directly to their mobile phones. At the venue, they only need to place their phones on the sensor installed at the gates for entering the stadium. Spice Telecom and Karnataka State Cricket Association, after their "successful" and ongoing joint venture of Future Strokes, have again come together to launch the Mobile Ticketing in association with ConvergeLabs, a Spice Telecom release said.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  47. YAY! by danpsmith · · Score: 1

    I've had ringtones that I purchased and didn't come through and that's only $3 (but I was still rightfully irritated I still got charged). Won't it be great when you buy your 80 dollar ticket to see the band of the week and it gets lost in technoland?

    --
    Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
  48. Easy to hack? by hey · · Score: 1

    Once the ticket is data (ie an SMS message) why can't it just be forwarded to all your friends?

    1. Re:Easy to hack? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't that just mean that only the first "friend" to get their ticket scanned gets in and its unique ID checked off in the database, and all your other friends are screwed when they try to get in, with you to thank?

    2. Re:Easy to hack? by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Sure can. And the first one to the theater wins. The second through nth one though, probably including yourself, is told that the ticket has already been used. Problem solved. Well, for the theater, and one of your friends.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  49. Parent is right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad there's someone working for Ticket Master here with Mod points!

  50. air of scepticism by dotpavan · · Score: 1

    is reserved.. as not many are comfortable giving their cell numbers..

  51. Duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the ticket is no longer valid once you scan it in?

  52. Zippline was there first by dynamo · · Score: 1

    They didn't invent this.
    http://www.zippline.com/

  53. No-Buy List? by slashbob22 · · Score: 1

    Just make sure your mobile number isn't on someone's no-buy list. Otherwise you may have to "borrow" your "friend's" phone to get into the event.

    --
    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  54. Idea by certel · · Score: 1

    Why isn't that I can't come up with something like this?

  55. Mobile-sense doing this in UK by suds · · Score: 1

    There is a company called Mobile-sense http://www.mobile-sense.com/ which is doing a very similar thing and the coolest thing is it has a mobile wallet with which you can pay for other services and transfer money.
    Have been using it for few months and it is catching-up.

  56. Used at music festival in Finland by rsmeds · · Score: 1

    Can't quite remember which one, but probably the Koneisto electronic music festival back in 2002 or so (waaay ahead of you, in other words). The barcode was an image in an SMS. As an alternative you could print the ticket from a website at home, as I recall.

  57. Swiss Federal Railways by CaptainZapp · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Those geezers and geezettes came up with such a brilliant scheme via MMS ticket and are wondering now, why they sold a whopping 3000 as opposed to the 8 million paper tickets they sold in the same time period. Let me explain the procedure:

    Step 1 : You sign up for the service

    Step 2 : You call a toll ladden phone # and order your MMS ticket Step 3 : You receive your MMS ticket for exactly the same price as if you would have bothered an official ticket seller

    If you are missing an option to order your ticket via a web site free of charge you are probably not alone.

    Those blitzes of brilliance with which marketing bozos can come up with truely mystify me at times.

    --
    ich bin der musikant

    mit taschenrechner in der hand

    kraftwerk

  58. Can't it be copied? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Couldn't someone that receives the SMS just forward
    it on to someone else?? Then BOTH of them have the
    same bar-code on their phones. First one to the
    ticket gate gets in!

  59. Foward Message by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what's stopping someone from forwarding the message to another phone. I'm sure everyone's heard of the scam at concerts, ballgames etc. where with e-tickets you'd just print another copy and have both people go in at the same time. Sure a pain to coordinate, but if it works, it works.

  60. Text Messages? by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    How exactly does one render a 2D barcode in a text message? Surely the article heading was meant to be "Admission Tickets as MMS" or "Admission Tickets as SMS".

  61. Sounds good to me by plbland · · Score: 1

    They do a similar thing here in the UK with Buy one Get one Free tickets (Orange Wednesdays!) at the cinema. Every person gets a unique code (when requested) which is typed in the by the operator and obviously checked at a server somewhere.

    I think it would be relatively hard to crack, for a start each bar-code is likely to be unique, and you will only get one chance (maybe two or three) at inputting it before anyone gets suspicious. It's quick and convenient for quite a lot of people and reduces touting (only slightly) and fake tickets.

    The only draw back I can see is that there are many phones of all shapes and sizes/resolutions which will mean the bar-code is going to be a bit different each time. Perhaps its only marginal, but I can see the readers making mistakes with some phones. Personally I would suggest using unique numbers instead of bar-codes - I guess it's not as quick.

    One more thing, I don't understand why there is such a big fuss about privacy/tracking issues. Ticketing agencies are separate from mobile companies, just like ticketing agencies are separate from local postal services. So there shouldn't be any massive difference in the collection of data over the current systems. Postal services probably have worse mailing success rates also.

  62. What they really need... by Peldor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What they really need is a second barcode I can scan for a full refund if I walk out in the first half-hour because the movie is complete crap. Or the sound system is hosed. Or the theatre is populated by talking idiots. Or any of the other myriad reasons people don't like wagering $20 trying to get a little entertainment at a movie these days.

  63. New way to scalp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Now the scalpers will just have a bag of prepaid phones that you buy with the text message on it. So the cost of buying scalped tickets will go up.

    Pilferage? Great now instead of losing a ticket, I lose my cellphone which has my contacts, calendars, and messages in it.

  64. Camera phones by vivarey · · Score: 1

    Well I guess they won't be able to turn me away for having a cameraphone anymore!

  65. A: They Mean MMS. B: It ain't a barcode by LordFolken · · Score: 1

    A: Obviously mms since its a picture.

    B: It looks a bit like the white ants on a (analog) tv screen, when its not tuned to a channel. Its a bitfield with crypto/checksum.

    The system is in use at the swiss federal railyway.

    you will find a sample image here on this page:
    http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/billette/mobil e-ticket/mobile-ticket-testbillett.htm

    you can also buy your ticket online and print it. This looks then a little more elaborate:
    https://www.sbb.ch/mct/wi/shop/testticket_en.pdf

    Some background info:
    http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/billette/mobil e-ticket.htm

    I find this quite a well thought-thru system. Personally I don't use it as I have a railpass, but even that one can be printed online.

    Wikipedia also has some reference to these "QR-Codes" and abuses them for real-world hyperlinks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_internet_of_things

  66. this is not new by sseymour1978 · · Score: 1

    You are TOO skeptical. It works, here in Europe, and has been tested. Here, howerer, is pretty much GSM/Nokia monopol. But Siemens, SonyEriccson,etc shows Noika compatible graphics messages too. So it's preetty reliable. Anyway when you subscribe for ticket, You register in their database with your phone number automatically. And even if sms gets lost, which is highly unliekely, (I havent lost any sms for years) you still can ask them to doublecheck their database.

  67. This'll cause a rise in cell phone theft... by esses · · Score: 1

    There's usually a big crowd of people around these venues a few hours before the show starts... Many of whom are happily chatting away on their cell phones. You know they probably haven't run their phone through the system yet. I bet now you'll see people sprinting by yanking phones out of people's hands while they're talking... and then disapearing off into the crowd. Sort of like the purse snatchers you always see in movies.

    This actually started becoming a problem in the UK. My girlfriend and I were talking while she was headed towards the underground... and suddenly I hear ....

    "Heeeeyy!!!" ... click.

    Of course I laughed my ass off when I learned what had happened... But frankly, I'm surprised this type of theft isn't already on the rise.

    Now put an IMMEDIATE $$ value on that phone, since the SMS messages are stored on the phone itself... and these become pretty tempting targets. Even reporting it stolen to the phone company won't save you as SMS messages, once recieved, are stored on the phone itself. You could still get the bar-code to show up and get into the theater.

    Hrrrrm.... now that I think about it.... *polts plan to start a SIM card scalping ring...*

  68. battery empty by jcgeuze · · Score: 0

    what if my mobile goes dead, because the battery is empty? (happens to me all the time, i just forget to charge the damn thing)

  69. Already used with Airlines here in Australia by spoco2 · · Score: 1

    You can already use this in Australia as well... I mean, yeash... my company was going to use this as a ticketing system for music venues over a year ago... I don't know whether it was the lot you linked to... but this article claiming these guys came up with it is just crud.

  70. Old Invention by hengist · · Score: 1

    This was invented (and patented) in NZ about 5 years ago. I knew one of the people working on it. He told me you have to use a CCD camera to scan the barcode, rather than a basic barcode scanner, to avoid problems with reflections off of the phone.

    The article is light on details, I wonder if the system is different or if there is some collaboration going on.

  71. *thwap thwap thwap* by thesnarky1 · · Score: 1

    I hate every story about the newest way to do X with technology, so if I seem bitter... now you know why.

    First off, this isn't *just* using SMS, not every phone will be able to do it. You also need GPRS or 3G technology. Then, you have to take into account that SMS messages aren't instantaneous. In fact, I've done a test that took up to half an hour before (to a phone sitting next to me). Also, I've sent messages that never got delivered... I'd hate ordering an $80 ticket, and then not getting it.

    Next, you're assuming the phone's display is accurate enough to display the bar code. I don't know 'bout you, but I've got friends with phone that have a bad display. Even new phones I've seen the displays go funky on. (No, I can't describe it, just loss of resolution, etc). Now, what's acceptable to human eyes may *not* work for a bar-code scanner.

    As for the security side, how does this prevent fraud? They nevere say. In my mind, I think it'd be easy, as you could forward the message to all your friends, and each take a quarter of the game to watch. Or just hand off phones. What's that? The paper is easier to forge? Nope, all you have to do is take your existing knowledge of how to fake the barcode and then send it to your phone. In my mind this makes it *easier* to get more then one person per ticket, as you never have to be seen handing off the ticket. You can't be caught with proof of a forgery, as if anyone questions you, you could just delete it.

    Not to mention the fact that you have to have your bank details logged with a website. Everyone that uses this service will be very vulnerable if that *one* site ever gets hacked. Phishing trip anyone? You could either just SMS random phone numbers, in hopes of getting someone to log into your site, or just target that site. Not hard at all.

    Finally, to anyone who's used some web service, and had to pay a service fee, what will it cost? Hell, even ticketmaster has a surcharge on things you order completely online, and is one main reason I've stopped going to concerts. You've gotta factor in the cost of the message (either in your service plan, or extra) as well as the $5-$10 the event coordinator's are gonna charge to use this. All so you don't need a slip of paper?

    When will people lerarn that digital does not equal security?! You want security, you hire guards, and take it off the internet. You want convienance, you gotta lose some security.

  72. IDEA by advs89 · · Score: 0

    This is what they should do:
    When the software sends out the barcode to each customer, it randomly picks one of 40 or 50 (maybe less) different styles of barcodes (filtering the high-resolution ones for the low-res phones-which would have to be requested by user...maybe on the original text message) and storing the style, along with the number, making it much harder to reproduce the correct style AND number.

    That could even be done with a small vb.net program... it'd probably take only a half hour to get a working prototype~

    --
    Rirelobql xabjf gung EBG-13 vf gur yrnfg frpher rapelcgvba rire, ohg jbhyq lbh jnfgr lbhe gvzr npghnyyl qrpelcgvat vg???
  73. Marketing Bunnies will like this... by gsperling · · Score: 1

    And, it's a two-fold thing for their marketing department. They now have your mobile phone number so they can call you and sell you more (insert product here).

  74. Off Topic, but... by ChePibe · · Score: 1

    Much has been made of devices to block cell phone transmissions, etc. The problems with these devices are, of course, obvious - it blocks emergency calls, could interfere with the theatres' own equipment, they're expensive, may break some regulations, etc.

    Would it be possible - in the future, of course - to create a device that automatically put a cell phone into silent mode upon entering a room? Obviously this wouldn't be a simple matter of creating a device - phones would have to be designed to be compatible with this.

    In a theatre, these could be placed next to the doors so that patrons phones were automatically "silenced" as soon as they walk in. Perhaps such a device could work through bluetooth? Most cell phone disturbances in the theatre are, in my experience, not the result of people actually making calls but people who simply forget to turn their phone off (not difficult to do).

    Yes, there would be a lot of security issues with a device like this that can change phone settings remotely without the consent of the user, but is something like this possible? Would people go for it?

    1. Re:Off Topic, but... by bmalia · · Score: 1

      "Please turn off cell phones" appears on the screen at my local theater and it seems to work great. Personally, I have never been disturbed by someone on a cell. I get disturbed by idiots who 1)talk during the movie, 2) kick the back of my seat, 3) leave or enter during the movie 4) eat candy with a crinkly paper, 5) have bad B0 6) my ass hurting from sitting for a 3 hour movie

      --
      There's no place like ~/
    2. Re:Off Topic, but... by iabervon · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't have to change the user's settings. It would only have to make the information available to people's phones. People could set their phone to have a special ring for when the user is at a show, much like special rings based on caller ID. And phones could come pre-programmed with a silent ring for this condition regardless of caller. So you don't change the phone settings; a single configuration would cause the phone to behave differently in response to where you happened to be.

  75. A cure for scalping by dschuetz · · Score: 1

    I've always thought this would be a great way to reduce scalping. When you sell someone a ticket, don't print the actual seat information on the ticket, but instead print a hash of some sort (I thought of this like 20 years ago, so I didn't really think of barcodes). If you want to verify the seat, you can take it to any ticketmaster outlet and scan it, which will tell you what seat it's for, but won't give you any kind of official-looking printout.

    So if you want to scalp the ticket, you have to actually bring it to a ticket counter with your buyer so they can verify it's what you're selling it as.

    Also, obviously, eliminates counterfeiting, duplicate tickets, etc. (presuming you can't simply accidentally stumble on the right hash for a ticket, in which case you then have to be sure you get there before the real ticket holder).

    Naturally, though, this won't work as well today. Hell, I'm not even sure where the nearest ticketmaster is anymore.

    (yes, I got sick of camping out all night at the student union only to have the first 5 people buy 10 tickets each, to scalp, such that by the time it got to me, at #6, all the floor seats were taken).

  76. Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Zwack · · Score: 1

    So, what happens when you want to buy two tickets to an event? Do I have to have two transactions and give them the cellphone numbers of everyone?

    It kind of ruins the element of surprise as well. "Hey, guess what, I got tickets for that concert you really wanted to go to!" "I know, I got the message already."

    Z.

    --
    -- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
    1. Re:Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Kryis · · Score: 1

      It should be possible to encode the number of tickets in some way in the barcode, so if you book 5 tickets, swiping the phone once will allow the turnstile to open 5 times.

    2. Re:Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Zwack · · Score: 1

      But, with discrete tickets I have been in a line where other people pushed in between members of the group I was with. So, I scan my phone and five people can come in. Two of us come in and then some rude git shoves his way in and scans... What happens? Does the turnstile reset to 1? Add 1? Z.

      --
      -- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
    3. Re:Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Kryis · · Score: 1

      If the number of tickets associated with the phone is stored in a database, the database can be updated every time someone uses the turnstile. If a second person scans their phone, the database would update their record. All you would need to do is scan your phone again and it would start accessing your database record again.

    4. Re:Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Zwack · · Score: 1

      Which means that I would potentially need to scan my phone once for every person in my party... And if I went through the turnstile first then I would have to pass my phone back somehow.

      Sorry, I still think that this sucks... As secretary of the Rock Music Society at University I used to be responsible for purchasing between ten and thirty tickets for concerts... Boy am I glad that these were paper tickets.

      Z.

      --
      -- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
    5. Re:Thanks, now what if I want to buy two or more? by Kryis · · Score: 1

      That would only be the case if you let people push between the members of the group, which means that passing your phone back every time is the very worst case scenario - the average case would be much closer to only having to scan your phone once. I have just done a university coursework with a very similar system to this using NFC instead of 2D barcodes and if it is set up correctly it can be a lot quicker using this system than having the queue for a paper ticket.

  77. save the ticket stub! by davek · · Score: 1

    Ticket stubs will never go away. After I walk out of a movie, the only thing that actually makes me feel like I bought something is the fact that I have my half of the ticket stub. Especially if it wasn't a very good movie and I feel like I just wasted my time and money. What will I do with the electronic one, print it out? Yeah, that's sentimental.

    But then again, I haven't gone to see a rip-off $10 movie in years.

    -dave

    --
    6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
  78. Near Field Communication by Kryis · · Score: 1

    I think that Near Field Communication (NFC) would be a more secure way of implementing a similar system, and there are phones that can use NFC already. Each NFC tag has a unique ID, which (as far as i'm aware) cannot be changed, so unless someone steals the phone they can't use the ticket.

  79. combine this with demand based ticket pricing by CitznFish · · Score: 1

    and you've got the next step in selling movie tickets. Especially when the web is more readily accessibly from standard cell phones.

    --
    'mmmmmmmmm.... forbidden donut'
  80. MMS not SMS by pdp0x14 · · Score: 1

    SMS is text-only. You can't send a (graphical) barcode over SMS.

    MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service) permits graphics.

    In addition to Smartmachine and Skidata, are the cell phone providers also going to get in on the gravy train?

    Too many pigs at the trough.

  81. 2-D? by Deal-a-Neil · · Score: 1

    So.. a two-dimensional barcode, as opposed to those holographic three-dimensional bar codes that we're all used to? I think it may be safe to say that all bar codes are two-dimensional.

  82. Orange Wednesdays by caluml · · Score: 1

    Orange in the UK have been running something like this for ages. Text some stuff, and you get a code that lets you have 2 tickets for one. Orange Wednesdays.

  83. Unfortunately Unreliable, by Scaz7 · · Score: 1

    I currently work for a ticketing company in Australia,

    We recently did a gig where Vodaphone were using this technology, as cool as it is, we all noticed it was also remarkably unreliable.

    Out of the 60 people on his list... He had to do 30 manual lookups because 'It couldn't read the codes properly'. Unfortunately I'm not sure if it was the custom phone covers, cracked screens or just simple incompatabilities with the phone screens. So until they can over come all the variables involved in getting atleast a 95% success rate which is very important especially when you have 10,000 people standing in line then I think this concept/technology will be a gymick for a long time.

    1. Re:Unfortunately Unreliable, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is one reason why 2D barcodes are used. Normal 'linear' barcodes do not render well on mobile phone screens. The laser scanners are not designed to read when there may be:
        - a non whitte background
        - inter-pixel gaps
        - curved facias

      The 2D barcodes are read by a CCD device instead.

      This system is currently in use in England in a number of places.

  84. Nothing (that) new here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't the first application of mobile ticketing using 2D SMS barcodes, see eg: http://www.ts.com/en/Our_Company/News/Showmans_Sho w.htm

  85. Bar Codes are Too Complex by TechnoCarl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bar codes seem like techo-glitz rather than the most practical solution,
    plus creates equipment limitations on customers.

    Why not just use the credit card used for purchase as the "ticket"? The
    confirmation code for the credit card transaction is the e-ticket ID.
    Alternatively, use a driver's license or other ID. Just swipe the card,
    and possibly check the physical card. Radio linked portable equipment with
    card reader, keypad, and receipt printer already exists.

    One could buy an e-ticket by phone, SMS, https, etc-- it doesn't matter.

    If all electronics fails, a non bar code also works with a faxed paper list and pen to cross off admissions. Someone too cheap to buy the scanners
    can use the fax method.

    Yes, there is the possibilty of credit card fraud, but no other than normal
    usage. Adding a smartcard chip to the credit card would be the best technical
    solution to fraud by copying the card numbers.

  86. Old news, they did it at CeBIT Australia 2005 by adamu · · Score: 1

    At the CeBIT Australia conference last year they had the option to have a barcode sent to your mobile phone that was scanned on entry. It worked quite well, I managed to receive the barcode on my Sony Ericsson T610 the problem was the barcode scanner had a hardtime picking it up of the screen and so they needed to enter in the number manually. Apparently they had to do this for just about everyone. A quick search found that CeBIT is not the only place that has been using this technology.

  87. Seems old news... by shakesbeer · · Score: 1

    Bangaloreans have been using this technology for sometime now. Spice Telecom subscribers can get tickets to cricket matches sent as SMS. They used the technology from Converge Labs which appears to be identical to the one mentioned in the article.

  88. And.... ? by chadfactor · · Score: 1

    I can't beleive this is newsworthy. I thought people would have been doing this already.

    A company I was working for in 2001 was trialing and developing this exact kind of thing, our primary problem was traditional handset screens were difficult to accurately scan with barcode readers.

  89. I dislike this trend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this keeps up I won't be able to go anywhere. I don't have a mobile phone because I enjoy the peace of being out of touch. I don't have a credit card, and still wouldn't use it online if I did. If this trend keeps up I will have to stay home as I won't be able to get tickets to events. What ever happend to real money? And real physical goods when you buy something, instead of spending your money on something with no real existence, such as virtual tickets, or worse, music downloads (my pet hate)? Actually having something in the hand is always best. A paper ticket, an actual music cd, anything. Electronic existence is too fragile and short-lived.

  90. ... and trains in Switzerland by dago · · Score: 1

    And the swiss federal train company is doing that for a few months as well. If you want to see how the ticket looks like, you also have the product page.

    BTW, it's not an SMS, but a MMS (image).

    --
    #include "coucou.h"
  91. Re:printing fee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fyi, the reason you get charged more to print the ticket yourself is that well over 50% of all customer support calls involve problems with the customer trying (and failing) to print their own ticket. the customer has lots of chances to run into trouble, from pdf support to being out of ink, to paper jams. the fee is to offset the higher support cost.