Infamous Emails Don't Always Kill Careers

Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "Those oft-forwarded email gaffes don't always lead to career meltdowns for the ashamed senders, Jared Sandberg writes in the Wall Street Journal. In some corners of the business world, preserving a reputation can be less important than acquiring one in the first place. For instance, the 2003 legal summer associate who accidentally emailed 40 colleagues to announce he was 'busy doing jack' ended up getting a job at the firm. More recently, the young woman who told off a lawyer offering her a job -- and saw her email forwarded worldwide -- is quite confident that the notoriety can't hurt, and might even help, her career."

Comments

It's the old adage...

[fak3r]

there's no such thing as bad publicity.

(1st?)

Re:It's the old adage...

[Anonymous Coward]

This should be marked as either Funny or Insightful; I found it to be both. The mod that marked it Offtopic is an obvious example of Mods on Crack!

Re:It's the old adage...

[JabberWokky]

there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Michael Brown's certainly doing well.

--
Evan

Re:It's the old adage...

[fak3r]

He seemed to impress our president, that's gotta carry some weight in future interviews; "Brownie you re doing a heck of a job" - GWB

Re:It's the old adage...

[FrontalLobe]

Right!

Now... Who wants to go quail hunting? =)

Re:It's the old adage...

[Anonymous Coward]

Falling on your sword for your prez earns you points.

The publicity mattered in certain corners, you can count on that.

Re:It's the old adage...

[Belgarath52]

- Abu Grahib
- Michael Jackson
- Lewinsky Scandal
- Kate Moss Cocaine Video
- Olympic Doping Scandal
- Dan Quayle's "Potatoe" incident

I'm sure you can think of more.
The only group for whom all news is good news - is the media.

Unless you're the New York times, and Jayson Blair just got revealed.

Re:It's the old adage...

[Draconnery]

Seems fair to me; the douchey question (1st?) makes up a notable percentage of the post, so there should be at least a notable percentage of Offtopic.

Crap, I'm posting - I can't mod that post Offtopic now.

Re:It's the old adage...

[fak3r]

I disagree, I posted what I first thought of (the old adage) and then I realized that I could be the 1st poster again. As I've done it before, it is simply no big, but it's just fun to keep up the (1st?) question going. If I had missed 1st it would have setup a bunch of automatic "You fail it!" responses, which I think are quite funny.

Also, since my post was 1st, me mentioning it in the post is ONtopic, not off.

Respectfully,
fak3r

Re:It's the old adage...

[ardle]

The coolest thing is that (1st?)ers have a pretty bad reputation, so your (1st?) ably illustrates your point. Your post is most definitely on-topic and insightful. Well done :-)

Re:It's the old adage...

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

I concur 100%! While a barrage of "FRIZZIRST PIZZOIST!" posts can be an annoyance, they're not nearly as bad as the humorless lumps who shoot down every internet meme that comes across their field of view. I'd rather keep giggling over first posts and "It's a trap!" than be so leet that I can't find humor in simple silliness any more.

Re:It's the old adage...

[robertjw]

There's an exception to every rule... Child molestation is not EVER good publicity, Abu Grahib and Olympic scandals aren't either. OTOH, Lewinsky got her 15 minutes of fame, TV gigs, sponsors, etc... It's doubtful she would have been memorable otherwise. Kate Moss is going to be on the cover of Vogue and is EVERYWHERE in the news. Dan Quayle would be even less memorable if it wasn't for his goofiness.

Re:It's the old adage...

[Anonymous Coward]

He was referring to Colin Powell. :-(

Re:It's the old adage...

[kalirion]

Always keep in mind the implied BOCTAOE.

They do more often than they don't

[winkydink]

You can't extrapolate from one intern who was hired despite having sent out a stupid email. TFA implies he spent the rest of the summer kissing ass and working his butt off.

As for Abadala, she's a trust-fund baby. I suspect she'll learn the hard way that professional networking is extremely important in a services career.

Many people have been passed over for hire for something stupid they posted to Usenet or an Internet forum. Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. Am I the only one surprised that a lawfirm would hire someone who sent information to unintended recipients? It could just as easily have been a customer, competitor, court official, or opposing counsel that received the email about "doing jack" and "doing jack" could just as easily have been confidential information or something offensive.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[cavtroop]

Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days. Not at Radio Shack :)

Re:They do more often than they don't

[chanrobi]

I have a hard time believing most people post to internet forums or usenet under their real names. And that these names would be unique enough to identify the specific individual that is being hired. A little skepticism here.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[cavemanf16]

I think you underestimate the "good" Ms. Abdala did for herself in the legal profession. Remember, these are people who are paid to give the verbal and written smack down to the lawyer across the table on a daily basis. If anything, other lawyers that know of her and practice in her area will now know that she is potentially more competent and a better advocate for herself and her clients than that guy she turned down. This could result in a job offer, or at least, more "street cred" during negotiations with the other party. Now for some IT geek going off to someone in industry, that behavior would probably equal near career death because IT geeks need to be able to do IT work, but communicate with others in a sociable manner. Lawyers don't get paid to be sociable; they get paid to win, as do salesmen and entreprenaurs (sp?) as TFA stated.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[dal20402]

Lawyers are not paid to "give the smack down." They're paid to achieve the best possible result for clients. Once in a while, that may involve being forceful. But, more often, that involves succeeding in negotiations and working with the opposition to achieve a resolution that works for both parties. Even in litigation, things go more smoothly for everyone when opposing counsel have a good working relationship.

If I were a client, I wouldn't touch Abdala with a ten-foot pole; I wouldn't trust her to have the good judgment and professional collegiality necessary to get me a good result. If I were a lawyer, I'd dread any situation where I had to work with her, and I certainly wouldn't hire her to work in my firm.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[charlesnw]

No but a lot of times they use a single e-mail address. Especially the people that usually post to usenet. They use the same e-mail address for several years. I know I have used mine on a large number of posts to Usenet /. blogs etc etc. And its on my resume. So is my website which has links to my blog. Also my full name (first and last) is fairly unique.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[merreborn]

Many people have been passed over for hire for something stupid they posted to Usenet or an Internet forum. Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days.

That's why I post here under a pseudonym, and not my real name, Robert Ericson.



Google doesn't index slashdot comments, does it?

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Surt]

Thank goodness I have a sufficiently common name that googling for me is effectively pointless.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats not the point. The point is that everyone expects interns to fould up at least once. The real test of character is how they react afterwards. This chap put his nose to the griondstone and straightened up, and that was the kind of person the firm was looking for.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[cluedweasel]

"Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days." Well that explains a lot. Googling myself (don't do that in public) the other day I found someone convicted of supplying heroin with not only the same name as me but the same age and living in the same town as I worked in at the time of his conviction. I wonder how many HR folks put 2+2 together and got 5 on that one?

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Drogo007]

Back when I was working for a very large publisher in the video game industry, there was a fellow who ended any chance of a career with said publisher by simple expedient of sending an email from his company account instead of a personal account.

The gist of the story is that large, popular game website "A" had been given a tour of this publisher's facilities, including a sneek peak at a highly anticipated, pre-release title. Of course, the write-up posted on their website was along the lines of "how cool is it that these people get to make games for a living and OMGLOL we got to see 'X Cool Game' before any of you did and it rocks!" Well, this individual I worked with felt that the website had "sold out" because they weren't critical enough of what he felt were shortcomings with 'X Cool Game' and so he wrote a blistering email flaming both website "A" and the publisher (that was signing his paychecks).

And sent it from his company email account.

Well, the people at website "A" notice the return address of this email and forward the email back to their contact at the publisher. Long story short, the email was passed all the way up to the VP of the publisher who took one look at it and said "He's fired". With no chance of ever being re-hired.

Yet, if he had sent it from a personal email account, there would've been no problem as website "A" wouldn't have connected him with the publisher.

It's Common Sense: If you're not willing to write a letter on company letter-head, sign your name to it, and fax it to each major news agency, DON'T SEND IT THROUGH COMPANY EMAIL!

Re:They do more often than they don't

[TPS Report]

Infamous Emails Don't Always Kill Careers

Or, to simplify in terms that every male would understand: Shooting yourself in the nuts doesn't always mean you'll lose them. Some really hot chick might even think guys who shoot themselves in the nuts, are sexy. But it's unlikely.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Alex P Keaton in da]

In the workplace, there is no limit to what can hold you back.
Someone who is brilliant, but socially awkward is not going to climb the corporate ladder.... (If interested, read up on Emotional Intelligence- It is one of the big things they pounded into us at Business School)
The truth is, tiny things can snowball on the executive/prof. tracj- For example, if you look bad in your suit (rubber soled shoes in the office instead of leather soles etc) then maybe you rub someone the wrong way and you get passed over for an early promotion and your whole career pathe ends up being different...
But seriously, if that guy from your highschool or college that was always the guy to beat, ie the smartest guy, is now stuck in some crappy job, he likely has low emotional intelligence....

Re:They do more often than they don't

[weierstrass]

well you're an idiot then aren't you.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[utlemming]

Dear Robert,

We're sorry to inform you, however, your posts on the popular internet forum "Slashdot" indicate that you hold opinions that are in opposition to our company. We found these posts by using Google and searching for "Robert Erickson."

One particular comment, maligning Windows, "If I want to make use of old hardware in my house, I'll install linux, hands down -- without a window manager" demonstrates your opinons. Google has helped to ferret out your true nature that you failed to disclose in the interview processes.

We wish you the best of luck in your job search.

Sincerely,

RIAA

Re:They do more often than they don't

[ceoyoyo]

It depends. I probably wouldn't post to Slashdot under my real name, but I do to lots of web archived mailing lists for things that are in my field. Not that it's easy to look me up by my real name. Unfortunately it's common enough to get me on the no fly list. Makes flying to the US a joy.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[winkydink]

Well, he was hired in 1994. Google wasn't even a Hershey Bar in its dad's back pocket then.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[winkydink]

Oh, don't worry. If the position's important enough they still have people like Kroll

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Billly Gates]

Keep in mind this potential boss screwed her. He renogiated her salary after accepting the offer. That is bad and she did the right thing but could have done it better.

I would of emailed them back accusing them of violating the verbal contract and mention not wanting to work for such a boss.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Johnny5000]

Thank goodness I have a sufficiently common name that googling for me is effectively pointless.

Same here.. I have the same name as someone famous, so good luck googling me. I might be 1000th on the list.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[winkydink]

The good ones aren't. The ones more interested in separating you from your money can be.

Two of the sharpest corporate counsels that I've worked with in my career were two of the niceest people you'd ever want to know. My personal attorney of many years was also a really nice guy regardless of which side of the table you were on.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[doxology]

Is your name Michael Bolton?

Re:They do more often than they don't

[wattersa]

The worst thing you can do as a lawyer is lose control of _yourself_, which is far more dangerous than losing control of a case or other legal problem. In any legal community, you're going to see the same people more than once. God forbid you piss off or personally insult a judge. Sometimes the opposing lawyer will even be your friend or someone you went to law school with. Basically you must have the ability to work with people you don't like or don't agree with.

The kind of unprofessionalism, overconfidence, and entitlement that Ms. Abdala so thoughtlessly displayed will doom her to a solo practice representing her relatives and other clients who don't know anything about legal services. Oh yes, they have already heard of her in the local community. But they are _amused_ by her, they don't respect her. Because when you're a 24 year-old first year lawyer, you don't know jack and you're a very junior member of the club (I know this, being a 25 year-old first year lawyer). If you act like you do know everything, you will be ostracized.

What will probably happen is that Ms. Abdala will forget to do something important and thereby commit malpractice, then cover it up because she will be too embarrassed to admit her mistake. The state bar will discipline her and she will retire from the practice of law prematurely at age 29.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

I want a lawyer whose real nice if you're on her/his side (and respectful of the judge, of course), and really mean if you're on the other side. :)

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

We know that guy as, "that idiot that thinks there's such a thing as 'emotional intelligence' and paid tens of thousands of dollars to be convinced of that."

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like a true big-firm lawyer.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[EVil Lawyer]

Which is why I bid on my name as a keyword on Google Adwords. I won't tell you what the ads say. They don't mention me by name.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[EVil Lawyer]

Oops. Now you know my name isn't something generic like Joe Smith. *slaps wrist* The NSA would never hire me.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[jzeejunk]

in that case case make sure this post of yours shows up on google too.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[wattersa]

Heh, actually I never plan to work for a big firm, which is why I'm still interviewing for a permanent job...

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Illbay]

As for Abadala, she's a trust-fund baby.

Really? I thought she was the ELECTED Queen of Naboo. Shoulda known she was affiliated with the "galaxy far, far away's" version of the Kennedy clan.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[SpectralDesign]

Yeah, I just found out for the first time (well not really) that I'm:

  o a football star
  o a hockey star
  o a talent agent
  o an astronaut
  o murdered

how the heck I can post this after having been murdered is a seriously interesting thing to ponder....

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Illbay]

I wouldn't trust her to have the good judgment and professional collegiality necessary to get me a good result.

I simply find it humorous that one would use words like "good judgement" and "professional" when talking about lawyers.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[robertjw]

Someone should use Google to see what professions/fates are the highest percentages for each name. It would be interesting to find out if a high percentage of 'Joe's are actors or a high percentage of 'Buffy's are neurosurgeons.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Daniel Wood]

You would have to be stupid to post on slashdot under your real name.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[winkydink]

Not if you're paying the bills you don't. You want a lawyer who can be the most effective in the shortest period of time. In almost all cases, that means a lawyer who is not being an asshole.

Criminal attorneys, at least those in front of a jury, will try very hard not to appear assholic as it can taint the jury against their client (or the state as the case may be).

Asshole civil attorneys will cost you lots of money because it takes more time to argue like an asshole than it does to negotiate in a reasonable manner.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Fear the Clam]

Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days.

My name isn't that rare; I'm not even the one in the top ten when googled. However, I use my alumni e-mail address for job applications and never use it anywhere else. Sure, people *can* find stuff about me and what I've posted to Usenet in the last 15 years or so, but it's not easy to do if I haven't volunteered any of the domains I've posted under.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[assassinator42]

There aren't many results for me specifically. I have a common firt name, but a less common last name. Most searches for me return someone with the same last name but different first name. Usually basketball players, which I am not.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

That only makes sense if character is a scarce resource.

Of course, I would argue that someone who would waste company resources and then brag about it is lacking in character in the first place, and that subsequent actions on his part were self-interest and not "character". There is a difference between an honest mistake and an "Oops! I got caught" mistake.

This man would not be working for me.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[twiddlingbits]

If all your lawyer is going to do is negotiate, you are better off taking the issue to binding arbitration. It's cheaper,no lawyers are required or involved and the decision is final AND Legal. You hire a lawyer to WIN, not compromise. In the end game winning may involve compromise but lawyers don't go into a case thinking like that.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Aparently, I'm a real estate agent, a college director, the mother of a rock star, and a professional billiards player. What an interesting life I lead...

Re:They do more often than they don't

[twiddlingbits]

I don't know where you went to B-school but they never said that where I went (Top 25 MBA). We were more trained on the Type-A fast tracker who burns out, and the things to NOT do to keep your career going ahead. Your dress is somewhat important, you can't be a slob, but getting RESULTS in your area is the most important. How to maximize your effectiveness with minimm use of your time was stressed. The HR types like the touchy-feely stuff like "Emotional Intelligence" whereas the other areas such as Finance, Marketing and Management were pure results driven. We all took Meyers-Briggs Personality Profiles and thats about all the psycho-babble we had to put up with. Having been in the IT area over 25 yrs I find personality profiles to be pretty much useless in determining if someone will succeed.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[iocat]

For sure. One time (as an hourly tester), I got exclusive use of my own Mac II (this was in the stone age). So I wasted no time putting a cool "IBM sucks" startup screen on it, because I was a Mac guy.

Then the next day (literally) they used "my" Mac to give a demo... to IBM. When I got in, everyone in the tester pit told me about it and was like "dude, you're so fired." But my boss (who was a former Vietname tunnel rat and a very frightening guy) was totally cool about it. He was like "did you do this" and I was like "uh, yeah" and he was like "Right. Don't do that again. Anything you do at an office, everyone sees." That was it. That was a great lesson and probably has saved my ass a million times in the age of email. (Plus it taught me a great deal about how to treat others.)

Anyone who is halfway competant deserves at least one consequence-free fuckup at a given job.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[whitehatlurker]

Now you know my name isn't something generic
Hopefully it's not as redundant as "Evil Lawyer". If that is your real name, you know that Google's not hiring you either. ;-)

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawyers are not paid to "give the smack down." They're paid to achieve the best possible result for clients.

That's what they're paid for, alright. But their goal is to achieve the best possible financial result for themselves.

Even in litigation, things go more smoothly for everyone when opposing counsel have a good working relationship.

Things go particularly smoothly for counsel when they collude to take their perspective clients for all they're worth by dragging things out for no good reason.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem is that a lot of employers really are that stupid. I have a name that one would expect to be fairly unique, but if you only take first and last name and skip the middle name, there's actually three of us. And one of the two others just started getting active on the 'net. I received an e-mail from an old school friend who thought that I had just become a daddy. Sorry dude, that wasn't me, it's one of the two others with my name.

Then again, unless you're really desperate for a job, you can see this practice as interviewing the employer; if they really are so stupid as to think everything on the 'net with your name on it is actually written by you, then you really don't want to work for them.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[arivanov]

Googling a person before hire to learn as much about them as possible is standard practice these days.

Googling is a two edge sword. If you have a personal web site which comes up very high on the list when someone googles for you and have an access to the logs you know if the potential employer has googled or not. If that is not enough, a web bug here or there on pages that relates to you helps a lot. As a result you know when someone is serious and you have enough information to suspect when someone is simply "Taking the Mickey".

Dunno about lawyers, but when it comes to things like working in an ISP, network security or Open Source software your professional life is pretty much open for public consumption. If the potential employer has not bothered checking who you are you should not bother going for an interview. It is a guaranteed waste of time every time because this means that they are not serious about hiring.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[nbert]

Did you search for "First Last" (with the double quotes around it)? If the combination of your first and last name is that uncommon you should be pretty easy to find.

Re:They do more often than they don't

[Alex P Keaton in da]

I agree with your point wholeheartedly, and consider myself more results driven.
The only reason that EI is so interesting to me is that it seeks to explain why geniuses may not be uber successes. How the guy who maybe has a smaller skill set, but is better socially, gets promoted faster than a guy with more skills and less social ability. (And I am refering to occupations where social skills are not a foundation, i.e. not sales etc)
And I went to Weatherhead, so that explains why I had EI drilled into me. (Could have gone to Harvard, but not because of my GMAT or undergrad GPA, because my dad went there for undergrad and MBA and is still very active there. But I didn't want to go somewhere that maybe I couldn't get in on my own... Of course now I sort of wish I had gone there...)

Re:They do more often than they don't

[sharkey]

Well, duh. That's a of results to pick through.

It depends

[ATAMAH]

I guess it depends on whether your boss has a sense of humor or not.
Come to think of it, it also depends on whether you are indeed "doing jack" all the time...

Re:It depends

[flewp]

Or if your boss's name is Jack...

Re:It depends

[himthatwas]

I suspect thay if the boss IS Jack you may be forgiven. But not by Mrs. Jack.

Re:It depends

[ATAMAH]

So THAT is why....um....nevermind. :)

Re:It depends

[pilgrim23]

testimonial: I was leaving work one day and...the elevator stopped between floors. I pushed the emergency talk button and got a P..rson talk.. th..sounded ..ike t.is (the sound cut in and out) . I was told, by the dispatcher (what I could hear of the conversation and from later discussion) communication problems were my fault (huh?). Since I could hear little, I talked into the mike and explained where I was and what the circumstance was. then settled back on the floor of the car, and waited 2 hours for someone to get me out. This was a Friday night and I was perhaps the only one in the building by then...
By the way this was the 2nd time I had been stuck on an elevator in that building and the final upshot was the maintenance company lost the contract. But, on to the thread: I sat down with my iBook and wrote a log of my experience via email(s) and sent it to Building maint. CCed to my supervisor (wireless) and by 1.5 hours the email contained the word "damn" in one line. Nothing worse; just that.
Next Monday I was called on the use of offensive language.

Re:It depends

[dusik]

Damn!

Re:It depends

[AuMatar]

We had a movie lunch at mylast job once. Until it was ended after the organizer was "spoken to" for bringing an inappropriate movie. The movie- Ferris Beuller's Day Off.

Re:It depends

[Anonymous Coward]

But, on to the thread: I sat down with my iBook and wrote a log of my experience via email(s) and sent it to Building maint.

Did you have Internet access right there in the elevator (GSM, maybe?)? If yes, I bet your e-mail already made twice the tour of the world before the maintenance company finally woke up and got you out of that elevator car...

Re:It depends

[Tweekster]

Thats why you make it outside the office, we get complaints for not inviting people out for drinks every once in a while We dont invite those people because they go and tell everything to the boss. (and he doesnt care!)

Re:It depends

[Anonymous Coward]

Or if your boss's husband's name is Jack.

Re:It depends

[ConceptJunkie]

We had a movie lunch at mylast job once. Until it was ended after the organizer was "spoken to" for bringing an inappropriate movie. The movie- Ferris Beuller's Day Off.

Yeah, those hentai freaks won't watch anything else...

Re:It depends

[infinite9]

Or if your boss's name is Jack...

A good friend of mine has this amazing ability to do or say almost anything at work and get away with it. (oddly enough, he also has a knack for talking his way out of tickets) We joke that he knows the jedi mind trick. About eight years ago, we were both working for walgreens (corporate offices). The project manager who we had just met several weeks earlier walked in and started talking to us. Someone asked him if he was keeping busy. He said, "I work hard. Sometimes I do more, sometimes I do less." My friend responded, "Who's Less?" He and the boss are still friends.

Re:It depends

[nanojath]

In fairness, Ed Rooney does tell that one girl "your ass is mine."

Where do they work?

[neonprimetime]

I work at a large bank ... and if I forwarded on any of the mentioned emails in this article ...
I'd be out the door before the end of the day. Honestly, I wish I worked at their business!

Re:Where do they work?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if MSFT holds a monopoly in Heaven & Hell too?

Would hell really be hell without it?

More importantly, can you envision heaven with BSODs?

Re:Where do they work?

[AviLazar]

That is because you work in banking. They tend to be more conservative, more strict, and do not have a sense of humor. Also, banks view their employees (as most do, but even more so) as liabilities. You send a bad e-mail and they will either think 1) this could get us a harassment suit or 2) you will steal company secrets. Banks also do not appreciate employees. The company this guy worked at was progressive...they saw he was bored, realized he was talented and then put him in a position which suited him. Banks are all about keeping you at the position you were hired....banks truely believe in hiring from without the company.

Re:Where do they work?

[mmalove]

On a less "Banks screw their employees over" note, banks store sensitive financial data for 1000s of people. If they have a policy for their employees not to surf the web, and that policy were in place to prevent trojans/sniffers from infecting their systems, I could see letting a few employees go to preserve their clients trust.

Re:Where do they work?

[AviLazar]

Then they should not allow any kind of external web access. Why even have such access available?

Re:Where do they work?

[mmalove]

A bank teller also has access to manipulate or delete all of a client's banking records. That doesn't excuse the abuse of that access. Perhaps the internet access is set up for certain people, or to visit a limited selection of external websites, such as a credit reporting site. Having not worked at the particular bank, I can only speculate.

Re:Where do they work?

[AviLazar]

As a person who worked at a bank for 5 years, from teller, to head teller, to personal banker, to investment specialist I can tell you that - potentially an investment specialist would need to hit certain sites to find out things like stock prices. Other then that, it is not necessary for the company. The bank can easily restrict access to specific users (i.e. Only allow people who have the investment specialist job description). Instead of putting it in front of everyones faces. People can also utilize the internet and be fairly respectful "yes i will only go to check my email, or weather report, etc." If you don't want your employees doing something, then do not temp them with it.

Re:Where do they work?

[ParrotDroppings]

More importantly, can you envision heaven with BSODs?
Yes, unless your heaven has a different color sky?

Re:Where do they work?

[chef_raekwon]

maybe you are referring to American Banks? I dunno. I work for a Bank (Canadian). Not so strict I would say -- conservative, ok. For the most part, however, Banks will not force anyone to stay in the position for which they were hired. Infact, the banks encourage people to fill as many roles as they can. The more you perform, the more they want to move/pay you. Basically, you turn into the problem solver, walking from one problem to the next, cleaning them up. Although, I will say that I work in Software Dev, and all of this could be moot if you are referring to the Business side (read:financial) side of banking....

Re:Where do they work?

[AviLazar]

Well since, in my previous posts, I was mentioning teller, head teller, personal banker, and financial advisor then yes I am referring to the retail side of banking (in the US they call it retail side, not Business side since the entire bank is in business, but the entire bank is not in retail). Yes in retail side it is very cut throat, backstabbing, and all about being the favorite (not the best).

CLM Vrs CEM

[eldavojohn]

In the company I work for, misuse of e-mail may constitute a CLM.

That's a Career Limiting Move. Not to be confused with sleeping with the boss's daughter--a Career Ending Move.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[XMilkProject]

Unless the boss's daughter is fat and desperate, in which case it could be a Career Building Move.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[dodobh]

Marry the daughter. That is a definite promotion move.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[voice_of_all_reason]

You should take a page from Star Trek.

If the Klingon captain isn't honorable enough to sleep with her, it's your sacred duty to relieve him of command and take over the ship.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[sasdrtx]

For my people, that would be a life-ending move. (LEM)

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[AviLazar]

About four or five years ago, PNC bank (philadelphia area bank) fired 50 some people for using Internet sources outside of the intranet (it's a wonder why they even let people hit the Internet)....all but three of them were fired for doing things like checking personal e-mail, going to news sites, etc. The last three were deleted for d/ling porn (and i think one instance was child porn). The last three deserved to get fired...the other 47 did not.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[metternich]

Reminds me of this old joke:

A shadkhen (matchmaker) goes to see a poor man and says, "I want to arrange a marriage for your son."
The poor man replies, "I never interfere in my son's life."
The shadkhen responds, "But the girl is Lord Rothschild's daughter."
"Well, in that case..."

Next, the shadkhen approaches Lord Rothschild. "I have a husband for your daughter."
"But my daughter is too young to marry."
"But this young man is already a vice president of the World Bank."
"Ah, in that case..."

Finally, the shadkhen goes to see the president of the World Bank.
"I have a young man to recommend to you as a vice president."
"But I already have more vice presidents than I need."
"But this young man is Lord Rothschild's son-in-law."
"Ah, in that case...."

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to be confused with sleeping with the boss's daughter--a Career Ending Move.

Funny how a little thing like a single videotape can change that into a Career Enhancing Move.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[Sentry21]

I dunno, if you're good that could be a career-boosting move. After all, why would the boss fire his daughter's boyfriend? Wait until you get promoted out of his department though, if you plan on breaking up with her afterwards.

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[blake3737]

Talk about a CLM, I was demoted for merely reading this article!

Re:CLM Vrs CEM

[Novus]

In this sort of situation, you should remember Rules of Acquisition 112 and 113.

A sample email

[creepynut]

>>>>
>>>> SEND THIS EMAIL TO AT LEAST 50 FRIENDS AND YOU WILL
TOTALLY
>>>> GET A JOB AS A LAWYER. IT WORKED FOR ME LOLZ. IF
YOU
>>>> DO NOT SEND IN THE NEXT 10 MINUTES YOU WILL NOT GET
THE
>>>> JOB AND A LAWYER WILL COME AND BEAT YOU UP LOLZ
>>>
>>> DO THIS GUYZ IT WORKS
>>
>>
>>

Re:A sample email

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! Congrats on getting that past the lameness filter.

Re:A sample email

[saboola]

Holy cow, it actually worked, thanks.

This is a signed and confidential posting from the offices of Schleinman, Heinman, and Saboola.

Re:A sample email

[AdamTheBastard]

Hi guys, I don't normally send this crap on (I dont belive in it lolz) but this one is really true. I had a friend who GOT A JOB FROM THIS EMAIL! It really works!!!!

Please forgive me for leaving the header intact and sending everyone's email address along so that a dataminer has no trouble picking up more spam targets. Also notice that there are 49 other email addresses in the 'to' header for this email. I wanted you all to know who my friends are and I wanted everyone to have the same chance to get their address regexed out by a spambot. If you press forward please don't remove anyone's email addresses that's just rude you n00bie. I hope that we can break the 9:1 ration of headers to content. PLEASE MAKE YOUR FRIENDS SCROOOOOOOOL. LOLZ.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> SEND THIS EMAIL TO AT LEAST 50 FRIENDS AND YOU WILL
TOTALLY
>>>>>> GET A JOB AS A LAWYER. IT WORKED FOR ME LOLZ. IF
YOU
>>>>>> DO NOT SEND IN THE NEXT 10 MINUTES YOU WILL NOT GET
THE
>>>>>> JOB AND A LAWYER WILL COME AND BEAT YOU UP LOLZ
>>>>>
>>>>> DO THIS GUYZ IT WORKS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Get your free SLASHDOT account now! It's fun, fast and free!

Does anybody see the Office Space Parallel?

[neonprimetime]

Does this article remind anybody of when Peter got the promotion, and Michael and Samir got layed off?

Re:Does anybody see the Office Space Parallel?

[MarkGriz]

"Does this article remind anybody of when Peter got the promotion, and Michael and Samir got layed off?"

It's not that I'm too lazy to RTFA, it's that I just don't care.

Re:Does anybody see the Office Space Parallel?

[ceeam]

What - and believe me, this is strictly hypotetical (hah-hah! :) - you were offered mod points or karma bonus for reading the F article?

Re:Does anybody see the Office Space Parallel?

[MarkGriz]

I don't know, I guess. Listen, I'm gonna go and get back to work (they say I've been missing alot of it lately).
It's been great posting here and going WAY off topic.

To: DL:All-Employees

[PIPBoy3000]

Hey, I was busy putting off my project work and came across this funny page: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/21/175222 6
You guys all get the irony, right?

Re:To: DL:All-Employees

[dotpavan]

Actually, I went there and found this comment very funny. Hope, you get the irony.

Re:To: DL:All-Employees

[Akoma The Immortal]

You just tared a hole in the univers!! What have you done!?!

I am stuck in an infinite clicking loop! ARG! How can I get out of it?

Quick I have to post something.

(I was in my 4th loop....)

Prof

[tach315]

after an embarrassing incident in a circuit analsis class I was told by the prof. "there are three kinds of atention: good, bad, and none at all. Do you know that bad atention is better then none at all."

Re:Prof

[Elad Alon]

Was he an English "tteacher" by any chance?

Re:Prof

[ricosalomar]

How is 'none at all' a type of something?

Re:Prof

[djSpinMonkey]

after an embarrassing incident in a circuit analsis class

A "circuit analsis" class? I'll bet that was an embarrassing incident!

Re:Prof

[dotpavan]

I am sorry, I didnt notice your post.

Re:Prof

[crabpeople]

"Do you know that bad atention is better then none at all."

and thus, an asshole is born.

Re:Prof

[VAXcat]

That reminds me of what my ciruits analysis prof asked me when I picked the grade for my final exam in the course...he said "You aren't planning on becoming an electical engineer, are you?"...I looked at the test, which was covered in red ink corrections, and said "Not anymore."...

Re:Prof

[tach315]

maybe I can't spell but your a dumb ass

Re:Prof

[Anonymous Coward]

Your grammar sucks, too.

Ummmm

[MikeRT]

Maybe this is because in the legal profession you need to be forceful and unyielding in order to help you argue your cases. Who has ever heard of a famous lawyer who felt others pain, considered their positions and was meak and soft-spoken in court?

As a geek, though, I have found that many human resources types leave you alone when you come off strong and watch your language. Projecting dominance works well with them. If you do it right, you leave them no grounds to say "he was intimidating me" because the authority looks at your conduct and says, "uh, right. Next case."

It's about a simple rule. The average person doesn't really respect those they think are weak and/or vulnerable. This applies to both genders. Women don't like men who just give them what they want, and men don't respect women who just blindly take whatever a man does. People who are unwilling to just sit there and take it get much more respect in almost any organization. Usually the types that complain shut up in the face of a counter-challenge.

Re:Ummmm

[poot_rootbeer]

Maybe this is because in the legal profession you need to be forceful and unyielding in order to help you argue your cases.

"bla bla bla"

Re:Ummmm

[voice_of_all_reason]

Who has ever heard of a famous lawyer who felt others pain, considered their positions and was meak and soft-spoken in court?

Atticus Finch.

(famous, but he did lose, though...)

Re:Ummmm

[spooje]

Bill Clinton was/is a lawyer and he's felt pleanty of peoples' pain over the years.

Re:Ummmm

[mjpaci]

Nice TKAM reference. At least I hope it was a TKAM reference...

Re:Ummmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe this is because in the legal profession you need to be forceful and unyielding in order to help you argue your cases. Who has ever heard of a famous lawyer who felt others pain, considered their positions and was meak and soft-spoken in court?

Well yes, I have: Abraham Lincoln

Re:Ummmm

[voice_of_all_reason]

No, Atticus Finch the gay S&M porn star. Of course it's To Kill A Mockingbird :)

Re:Ummmm

[SinGunner]

working in a law firm, i have to say that you don't know a damn thing about what you're talking about.

this is my authoritative view.

Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[BobBobBobBobBob]

Dianna Abdala, the lawyer in TFA, sounds like a giant dick. If I were hiring lawyers and did a quick search on the applicants' names to see what came up, and I read such an immature emailed exchange, I definitely would not hire her. No matter how good a lawyer she is (and I'm sure she's not the best lawyer ever, so there are plenty to choose from), anyone with an attitude like hers would be really difficult to work with. I wouldn't do that to myself or to the people who had to work with her. YMMV (you may enjoy working with annoying people who can't follow good advice from an expert in their field).

From the article:
As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father and has rented office space for her own practice. "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

She sounds like one of those people who nobody picks to work with, so she ends up doing all of her work alone and has convinced herself that she enjoys it. I hope the marketplace (ie, her prospective customers) make her suffer (or she'll surely make them suffer, not having learned how to behave in a civil society).

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[allankim]

TFA doesn't mention it, but other media reports have stated that the employer tried to cut Abdala's starting salary *after* she had accepted the job offer.

See, for example, http://www.masslaw.com/break021506.cfm

And so far no one has said that forwarding a private e-mail exchange doesn't reflect well on a CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY -- a person who is expected to exercise great discretion with other people's private communications.

Abdala arguably committed gross errors of form, but IMO everyone overlooks the substantial errors of substance that were made by other parties.

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Well, if she's any good, she might make a decent living at it. I have a suspicion that based on her attitude she's probably not as good as she thinks she is. My best friend from college is an attorney and has been one for about 17 years. I learned from him that everyone who is an attorney does not make the big bucks, but he does do pretty well from his private practice. However, I know one of his law school buddies and I suspect that this guy might make $50,000 a year - if he's lucky. I have learned that people from Ms. Abdala's generation have hugely inflated opinions of themselves and often find reality to be very humbling and difficult to deal with.

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[noewun]

For me the important part was:

As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father. . .

Maybe having daddy's money means there are no consequences for your actions?

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[Fujisawa Sensei]

While it doesn't mean that there are not consequences, it does mean that you don't actually have to work for a living.

What she doesn't understand is that as a lawyer she's allways working under somebody. Then again, since she's living on funds provided by her father maybe she actually isn't working. Must be nice...

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[prurientknave]

Civil society is based on certain implied threats based on the existence of social networks whose effects are usually hidden. Let's see if we can draw up a possible accounting of what really happened.
 
Abdala seems not to understand the power of social networks and weasels and probably went ahead and followed the letter of the law when the employer weaseled out of his initial salary promise. She therefore felt she had a right to renege on her alleged verbal agreement, one with no witnesses and one she doesn't admit to, to work for him. If he can weasel once by reneging on an initial salary promise, I believe he can weasel again to cast his cause in a fairer light. So I believe his claim to the existence of a profitable verbal agreement is probably fabricated. At this point, he tries to lay a 'guilt trip'/implied threat that her decision to renege on the alleged verbal contract was unconscionable and might result either in financial penalties or slander among the boston legal community because it cost him so much money to set up her office. This effectively protects him from a slander suit since he has a grievance. You have to remember however, that he unilaterally changed the agreement on her salary and there is no recorded evidence that she agreed to this change(remember why eula's are bad?). In any case, she proceeds to overestimate the commitment of the community to the letter of the law, or atleast their ability to weed out weasels and underestimate the power of social networks to impede her career. The rest is history. Yes these are lawyers, so it's a silly assumption on her part that even though this one is a weasel, the others in the community might not be. One may assume a green lawyer isn't yet inured to legal weaseling, which was why she was blindsided by this.
 
  Of course in the end everyone sides with the veteran lawyer who weaseled on a contract instead of the injured party. This is the power of the weasel of course. As one of the above posters said, she's probably difficult to work and probably works on her own, which is most probably because she isn't a weasel.
 
I figured slashdot being chock full of nerds would have an easier time spotting them

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[pimpimpim]

annoying, unsocialized, indiscrete.. sounds like the perfect profile for a lawyer to me! ;)

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[pimpimpim]

woops, actually, if you read the abc link mentioned in a post below, you see that it was the employer who forwarded the e-mail communication. I guess that changes the perspective of your post a lot!

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1635472

Re:Lawyer Lives Stereotype

[lauterm]

She's living off her father's trust fund, not in his basement. That makes it hard for nerds to sympathize with her.

well yeah

[circletimessquare]

it's an old public relations adage: "there's no such thing as bad pr"

a lot of people hating you, ridiculing you, smirking at you, etc., is better than no one knowing you even exist

it doesn't matter what you do if no one is aware of it, to the point that even if you are doing mediocre work, if people know about you, you have more upward mobility than if you are doing sterling work but are invisible

Re:well yeah

[HoosierPeschke]

RMS comes to mind...

Re:well yeah

[nasch]

IMO, the Dick Cheney shooting incident is proof that there IS such a thing as bad publicity. Ask the President whether he'd rather have the VP shoot someone, or not be in the news at all that day.

Windows didn't hurt Microsoft

[EmbeddedJanitor]

C'mon folk, this is /., gotta keep the crusade going!

What I want to know is...

[Billosaur]

Replied Ms. Abdala, a 24-year-old law school graduate: "A real lawyer would have put the contract into writing and not exercised any such reliance until he did so."

Mr. Korman: "Thank you for the refresher course on contracts... Do you really want to start [annoying] more experienced lawyers at this early stage of your career?"

Ms. Abdala: "bla bla bla."

So she wants to be a lawyer, eh? Is she going to use that little act in front of a judge?

Judge: Ms. Abdala, you're badgering the witness. Please stay within the confines of decorum.

Ms. Abdala: Yada-yada-yada... whatever Judge...

I agree with Mr. Korman: highly unprofessional. I guess she's looking to start an ambulance-chasing practice because I can't see anyone hiring her if that's as professional as she can be.

Re:What I want to know is...

[Anonymous Coward]

So she wants to be a lawyer, eh? Is she going to use that little act in front of a judge?

I agree with Mr. Korman: highly unprofessional.

On the contrary -- she informed him BOTH in writing AND by voice -- what else do you need? A FedExed job rejection letter? His feelings were hurt and he immediately started the name-calling, saying she was "unprofessional", when she had in fact done exactly what she should have. That was quite immature and unprofessional of him; leave off the insults. She then correctly pointed out his error, using her professional acumen. He responded with an implied threat. For him, it's all about being "buddies" and feeeelings. THAT is unprofessional.

No, she's not going to try it in front of a judge. This was an exchange with some guy throwing a pouty fit because he felt rejected.

Re:What I want to know is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Give her a break, maybe she was drunk or PMSing that day.

Anonymous!

Re:What I want to know is...

[owlstead]

Forwarding private email conversations on a *job offer* to "friends", making it impossible for an unexperienced upstart ever get work. I can't believe *he*, as a practicing lawer, is accusing *her* of unprofessionalism. I mean, I can understand it from a 24 year old, well, girl.

confidence

[AtariDatacenter]

Well, you have to say, that an abundance of confidence isn't anything that young woman is lacking, now is she?

Unbridled Optimisim

[Iffy Bonzoolie]

The article talks about how this email exchange will help her career and such... but there's no actual evidence yet either way! From the article:

As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father and has rented office space for her own practice. "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

And, sure, she's getting some free press, but the article focuses on Abdala's situation and then provides no actual resolution. She's living off of her daddy's money until she gets started. Let's check back in a few months and see what her finances look like.

-If

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[PriceIke]

Her finances are going to be just fine. Did you see her picture? That's professionally done promotional photo, not a candid by some hack ABC photog. I'd lay money she'll get a few dozen job offers, and probably a few marriage proposals out of the deal. She could probably even start up an email-etiquette advice column in some legal rag.

This was such a non-story on a slow news day. "bla bla bla"? So what? I've seen much worse.

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you see her picture? That's professionally done promotional photo, not a candid by some hack ABC photog. I'd lay money she'll get a few dozen job offers

Yeah, I can see her getting hired to strip the insulation off cables with those big choppers or maybe some beavers would hire her to cut down trees for their next beaver dam.

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[Anonymous Coward]

Now THAT is funny. Thanks for brightening my day.

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[_pi-away]

Did you see her picture? That's professionally done promotional photo, not a candid by some hack ABC photog.

Because it's in sepia tone means that it's professional? BTW, she looks terrible in that picture, so if that really is a professionally done promo photo she must be god-awful in person. I won't comment on how she is going to end up doing after this (who knows), but I know I sure as hell wouldn't hire her.

and probably a few marriage proposals out of the deal.

Well of course she will, Scott Peterson has gotten marriage proposals (you know the guy who murdered his pregnant wife). Moreover, considering her financial situation (or moreover that of her father), I'm sure some guys would love to hop on that gravy train; doesn't mean that's a good thing for her.

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[ckaminski]

As a photographer, I can tell you that you aren't photographed like that unless you got one ugly disproportionate face.

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[Fear the Clam]

"moo moo moo"

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[Anonymous Coward]

The anonymous coward above just WTFPWNED this thread. Funniest thing I've seen written yet. Who cares what her story is when we can attack her personally about her fugly-ass looks?

Re:Unbridled Optimisim

[Anonymous Coward]

This wasn't modded up, but I just really wanted to thank you for the laugh. :)

Just a thought...

[thewise1]

The wildly successful in this world make their own rules. The rest of us timidly kiss our superiors asses to pay the bills.

Re:Just a thought...

[thewise1]

Then again... there are plenty who try to make their own rules and fail ;) I forgot to mention that part!

Re:Just a thought...

[Asmor]

How do you figure? This is sometimes true, but I'd wager dollars to cents that the wildly successful "yes-man" business execs vastly outnumber the successful people that play by their own rules.

I'd also wager dollars to cents that the destitute and not-very-well off people that play by their own rules vastly outnumber the poor people that fall in line.

What's the issue here?

[jafiwam]

What is the issue?

That someone put snotty comments in an email?

Or that some other person choose to use them as means other than intended by forewarding them on to a bunch of other people?

It looks like the article (yes, I RTFA) is bashing the wench for being snotty, not the recipient for using the email to further their own ends.

Re:What's the issue here?

[murdocj]

So you are saying that I need to ask the permission of the sender before forwarding their email?

I would guess that everyone who is reading this right now has, at one time or another, forwarded an email with the comment "look at what a doofus this person is" on it.

Not Always, But Most of The Time(I hope)

[monoqlith]

Ms. Abdala sounds like a spoiled nutjob who thinks that her thoughtless gall in her personal life should automatically transfer to her professional career. The fact that cattiness is framed positively and rewarded in today's business world is disheartening. There is a difference between being bold and confident and being petty. Moreover, just because you have gall does not mean you are always correct. As a man whose initials are JK once said in a widely watched debate, "You can be confident and you can be wrong." The type of gall that Ms. Abdala displays here may be good in the court-room but it can also be dangerous when administrating a business. A lack of concern for other people's feelings or thoughts is just as bad - probably more - than an over-concern for them. A good worker has the confidence to stand up for their own opinions bravely when they know they are right, and to take genuine opportunities. She also knows when to shut up and cooperate, for crissake. I really hope that Ms. Abdala's outrageous bluntness is not rewarded with a fast-track career.

Office Space

[albeit unknown]

I'd like to move us right to Peter Gibbons. We had a chance to meet this young man, and boy that's just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

Who remembers Bernie?

[www.sorehands.com]

Who does or doesn't remember, Bernard Shifman is A Moron Spammer? Of course noone would hire an idiot like him.

Article Summary

[obender]

Sometimes you don't get punished for being honest. This sounds like a perfect candidate for: In Soviet Russia...

Actually, not just unprofessional.

[temojen]

Abdala should re-take a course on contracts. They could sooo sue her ass for breach, writing or no. For an employment contract at least for the cost of the business cards, stationery, and computer.

I assume that they both have their own councils, though, and I'm not a Lawyer, I'm not your Lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

Re:Actually, not just unprofessional.

[shawb]

From another article on the topic, the hiring firm had decided after the verbal agreement to lower the pay. If anyone would be liable for breach of contract, it would be the hiring firm. And then he would be seriously in violation of breach of confidentiality by doing this... if I knew of a lawyer that did this I would do everything in my power to never hire him. And I don't believe that responding "Bla bla bla" is really that bad as the extremely unprofessional threat the lawyer made: "You need to realize that this is a very small legal community, especially the criminal defense bar. Do you really want to start pissing off more experienced lawyers at this early stage of your career?". To me this sounds like a very thinly veiled threat that he is going to try to get her disbarred for 1)not accepting the job after he had changed the terms of the contract by lowering her pay and then 2)making a rebuttal to his statement that her actions were unprofessional.

Now, maybe she should have thought a little bit more carefully in dealing with this creep, but you think a seasoned lawyer would be the one showing some modicum of professionalism. Instead, he acted like a whiny little brat, used semi-vulgar language, made threats and then forwarded a conversation on to others that may have had a small expectancy of privacy.

Re:Actually, not just unprofessional.

[temojen]

I didn't know about the rate change.

Re:Actually, not just unprofessional.

[Billly Gates]

But she still agreed after he lowered the pay.

Now if she agreed and then stated the lower offer then she could sue him back.

It was when did the renegotiated salary take place will be key on who sues who.

Still she could have acted more professional. She could have plainly stated that she felt violated and wanted immediate renegotation. If they refused then she would not accept the position and explain why. This would look better in court.

I dont think they will have her disbared. But I bet what they will do is blacklist her so she can't work elsewhere. Bad for her because that will be difficult to prove.

She has a right to sue them just as much. Also I think she didn't bother to renegotiate because she decided a kind of boss who does this crap isn't worth working for. I would be hesistant and not wanting to work for him either after that.

welcome to Feburary 16th, slashdot...

[SuperBanana]

This story was originally covered by the Boston Globe on the 16th of Feburary. Welcome to last week, guys.

The most disturbing part of the email was her princess tone. The attitude is just...incredible. It's like she lives in a whole other reality:

''The pay you are offering would neither fulfill me nor support the lifestyle I am living."

She said she ultimately decided not to take the job because the reduced salary ''might have been realistic for other people to survive on, but I like nicer things. I like the finer things in life."

Wow. Just....wow.

Re:welcome to Feburary 16th, slashdot...

[Anonymous Coward]

I always judge a newspaper and news story on how relevant the information will be after a period of time.

For example, People or US Weekly are useless pretty much a week after they are off the presses. However, I can pick up a month old Wall Street Journal and still find the articles relevant.

Do you really feel that this particular article has lost its value 5 days later?- most of the events in the story happened several years ago.
-K

Re:welcome to Feburary 16th, slashdot...

[shawb]

What this article failed to mention that many others did (such as this one) that the firm that she applied at reduced the salary after she had agreed to work there. I think that the way she worded it was a fairly professional response in this situation. I think that the hiring lawyer telling her to call him on his personal cellphone to talk about it may be quite unprofessional. What it sounds like happened is once she made her decision to not take the job, she emailed him and left a message at the firm, which sounds fairly reasonable to me. For all we know, she may have intended to leave an official letter during business hours and this was just a heads up that she will not accept the new terms. If you look at all the other scheister moves this guy pulls (including forwarding the correspondences on to his friends... extremely unprofessional, if not opening himself up to a defamation suit by failing to include certain details of the encounter) she probably felt that working for him at all would be a career limiting move. I know I would avoid working with this guy in any professional manner, much less working for him.

Re:welcome to Feburary 16th, slashdot...

[shawb]

D'oh. Forgot to preview. Slashdot should force a preview for every comment (like myspace and just about every other website I've seen does) so this happens less.

Re:welcome to Feburary 16th, slashdot...

[Goosefood]

Turning down a job due to a lack of salary does not sound particularly unethical to me.

Infamous?

[SnailNobra]

It's so famous it's IN famous.

[sarcasm] I mean come on, for all intensive purposes that's just lazy, they must be taking spelling for granite. [/sarcasm]

And then...

[alnjmshntr]

And then, of course, there was Bernard Shifman. Wonder how he is doing these days?

Fast Forward...

[The Angry Mick]

...it's ten years later and Ms. Abdala is sitting across a small table, staring down rather sheepishly at her formerly well-manicured nails:

Bar Representative:Are you aware, Ms. Abdala, that this is your second time in front of this board for accusations of malpractice?

Ms. Abdala:Yes, but you have to understand . . . I really didn't want to talk to my client. He's soooo boring . . .

Bar Representative:Regardless of your opinion of his personality, you did, in fact, take money from him?

Ms. Abdala: Well, sure, but . . .

Bar Representative:Blah, Blah, Blah, Ms. Abdala. This board finds you guilty of malpractice. Effective immediately, you are no longer licensed to practice law in this state. Have a nice day, brat.

Infamy started my career

[Anonymous Coward]

My whole tech career started this way. I had messed around with websites from high school on. Then in my sophomore year of college, I was a $5/hour grunt who transcribed questions from textbooks for a big online testing system for universities, but my prof was one of the founders. Anyway, they spent a ton of money on a web designer, and I thought the design was complete crap and announced it on the company's email list. I meant to reply only to my prof, but wound up sending everyone in the organization a message saying "This is complete shit. Who hired these folks? I could do better in a day or two of designing."

My professor emailed me back telling me to back up the claim. So I did. Four days later (and several sleepness nights spent creating a prototype) they flew me to North Carolina to talk to the executives, who wanted to hire me as the lead information designer.

Hmmm...

[abscissa]

Hmmmmm.... yes... but what about gaffes like THIS ONE?

My experience...

[wilburdg]

I remember a number of years ago I worked through school doing tech support for a local ISP. When sending out some generic emails, I would change my 'From' address to be 'support@xyz.net' instead of my own 'firstlast@xyz.net'

One day, while particularly bored and feeling I could use a little more challenging job, I sent out a volley of emails to potential employers inquiring about possible opportunities.

Yup, you guessed it. I was stupid enough to accidentally send them all from 'support@xyz.net' which was an alias which everyone, including my employer received. I felt pretty embarrassed when all these replies started showing up in everyone's inbox. Luckily, my boss was a great guy and just thought the whole fiasco was pretty damn funny.

Re:My experience...

[VAXcat]

Back in the day, we used the built in mail package in VMS for our corporate e-mail package. VAXmail used your username as the FROM field, but since this was usually something like VQXC4995, or some such, the package allowed you to add a "personal name" string, which showed up in emails, along with your FROM username, so that people could tell who it came from without having to consult a table of usernames. Unless you looked at it, though, you wouldn't see yours normally. One night, a particularly annoying IT supervisor was incautious enough to leave himself signed on in the computer room. The operators, scamps everyone of them, took this opportunity to change his "personal name" string from his name, to "I Love You". It was a month later, and hundreds of emails sent by him, before anyone (the director of IT, as it turns out) called him up and said "Dave, what's with this I Love You message in all of your emails. He was mad for weeks, but never fiured out it was the operators that did it.

Troll?!

[CrazedWalrus]

Wow, Mods. Someone really misread this post. A troll it's not.

Emails kill careers?

[orion41us]

Since when do *most* thing kill careers? I personally witnessed a HR Manager accidentally forward peoples compensation in a spreadsheet to the company email group (everyone). This person did not even get a hand slapped. Another time a different employee showing up drunk/stoned - told to go home and come back the next day - they got a warning. An Executive level manager getting trashed at a client dinner and getting physically abusive, next day we were told that they resigned. It is sickening what people can get away with in today's corporate world because of fear of a lawsuit etc... I would like to see a little bit more enforcement of the rules if you ask me. What the hell is wrong with firing people?

Re:Emails kill careers?

[mwyner]

Being told an upper level manager has "resigned' usually means they were given a choice to voluntarily leave or to get fired. Most usually choose the first option. Something with keeping their dignity or whatever.

Re:Emails kill careers?

[orion41us]

My point, they should not have that chance for stuff like that IMO....

They're right, Just ask Chuck Norris

[jerryodom]

That thing floating around about how bad ass Chuck Norris is has gotten him more press than he's seen since Walker Texas Ranger.

Lawyers

[Shimmer]

I wouldn't want to work with either of the lawyers in this story.

He offered her a job and then reduced the salary after she accepted. That's a huge red flag. Highly unacceptable.

She's a spoiled brat ("trust fund baby"). You've got to wonder what her father, who's still supporting her at age 24, thinks of her behavior.

Re:Lawyers

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did it say they lowered the salary after she accepted the offer? I didn't see that anywhere in TFA

Re:Lawyers

[prurientknave]

You don't seem to think that becoming a lawyer at 24 is a major accomplishment? That's 4 yrs undergrad and 4 years grad which from the traditional schooling curriculum would put her at 18+8=26 She's either skipped classes or accelerated her way into a career at an earlier age. The fact that occupationaly smart people are always out maneuvered by weasels is just a sign of the times and if I remember correctly the subtext of every slashpost. 'why are smarts are not awarded only weasling is/why are nerds not awarded when being a jock is?'

The reason the country is a mess is that the vast majority of the voting population both republican and democrat can't spot weasels if they were 4000 tonne blaring its horn and coming right at them.

Re:Lawyers

[prurientknave]

erm... 4000 tonne locomotive...

X( Screwed up the barb and took the sting right out of that didn't it?

Re:Lawyers

[tsm_sf]

The fact that occupationaly smart people are always out maneuvered by weasels is just a sign of the times and if I remember correctly the subtext of every slashpost.

FRED: And one of the things that keeps popping up is this about "subtext." Plays, novels, songs--they all have a "subtext," which I take to mean a hidden message or import of some kind. So subtext we know. But what do you call the message or meaning that's right there on the surface, completely open and obvious? They never talk about that. What do you call what's above the subtext?

TED: The text.

FRED: OK, that's right, but they never talk about that.

Re:Lawyers

[Thrymm]

No she was sucking a lot of cock...

in all seriousness, I know people who went to law school and claim they are lawyers a year out of it. You are NOT a lawyer, you are a lackey aka paralegal for a while before you ever practice law in a courtroom. Sorry this 24yr old daddy's princess is just that, and a piece of shit in my opinion to boot.

Re:Lawyers

[cpt kangarooski]

Law school is 3 years usually (though people who work while in school often are in a 4 year program). If the school permits it, you could take summer classes and get down to 2 1/2 years. I'm sure that with some work (summer classes, AP classes in high school) one could graduate from college in 3 years or so as well.

So it's not really that big an accomlishment. She's at about the bottom of the age range for new lawyers, but I wouldn't say she's exceptional just based on that.

Re:Lawyers

[minus_273]

hello, not everyone starts college at 18. many people start at 17. you can graduate early if you take summer classes or AP credits. nothing spectacular.

Re:Lawyers

[Anonymous Coward]

Law school = 3 years

Re:Lawyers

[Shimmer]

See http://www.masslawyersweekly.com/break021506.cfm

Re:Lawyers

[Shimmer]

What are you talking about? I said she was spoiled, not dumb.

Your complaint about "weasels" is a non sequitir, but I question it anyway. Smart people who are consistently out-maneuvered by weasels probably aren't so smart to begin with. Being a nerd is not the same thing as being smart. Nor does it have any relevance to this story.

I think you may have a major chip on your shoulder, Mr. Nerd.

Re:Lawyers

[prurientknave]

Mr. Shimmer not everyone views human beings as marks. You appear to work at a consulting firm, so I understand your confusion.
 
The vast majority of the nerd population is not educated to treat other human beings this way, most probably because they don't spend a lot of time interacting with other people while growing up. Obviously this is a stupid world view, since weasels do view everyone else as marks, people who should be swindled if possible and leaving decency for fools and propaganda.
 
I'm not saying either view is right or wrong, it's just that I do know a lot of people, nerds and religious nuts, who do run around with mistaken notions of decency and justice, people for whom weaseling is a foreign concept. I thought illuminating this as a reason for the misunderstanding would be appropriate.

Re:Lawyers

[Shimmer]

I certainly don't view other people as marks. However, I do know how to protect myself from such treatment.

As one nerd to another, here's an analogy you may appreciate: If you are a good wizard in the Harry Potter world, you study Defense Against the Dark Arts. I suggest you do the same.

Re:Lawyers

[prurientknave]

lol
 
I haven't read harry potter but I think I understand what you mean. Again as I said earlier, I was just illuminating the source of the conflict, when the dialogue seemed to be heavy handedly bashing a victim and her poor response, with little regard as to what might have sparked it.
 
Anyway I think we see eye to eye on this issue, so there isn't more to be said.

No anecdotes?

[Anonymous Coward]

I expected to see a whole horde of stories about embarassing accidents like the email described. Meh, I'll post my own anyway.

Five or six years ago, a friend of mine was interviewing for a job and needed a letter of reference, and I agreed to write one for him. I also wrote up a second letter of reference that roughly read:

Dear Sir or Madam:

Henry is the mack daddy and the daddy mack and all the bitches and ho's love him. You'd be insane not to hire him.

Love,
-Bill

Right on cue, he mailed the wrong one. Naturally, he provided the correct letter at his interview, red face and all. In the end he got the job... his qualifications were good, he interviewed well, and they said that based on the mistaken submission, they got a glimpse into his personality and he seemed like he'd be fun to work with.

Now... on the other hand... last year I got a call from a recruiter about a job at Doubleclick. I try to be polite with recruiters, but I don't really edit myself much these days, so I told him pretty much exactly what I thought of Doubleclick, just, you know... run through a profanity filter.

I got a call the next evening from another recruiter about the job at Doubleclick. This time I was in a guitar store and couldn't really hear well, so I went back into one of the practice rooms where I could hear better, and gave him the same spiel about what I thought of Doubleclick, and how I was kinda glad not to have them on my resume, but I appreciated his consideration, blah blah blah.

Yeah.

Turns out the original recruiter had submitted my resume anyway, and the second phone call was a guy from Doubleclick calling to give me a technical phone screening. He thanked me for my time, and said he'd get back to me. My turn to be redfaced.

I felt pretty bad... I had met these guys before, and it wasn't their fault that they were at Doubleclick, exactly. Their company had been purchased and they just sorta found themselves there. Odds are fair he felt about the same as me and hadn't made his way out yet. I didn't mean to call attention to it being on his resume. I'd certainly have never hurt the guy's feelings had I known.

Needless to say, he never got back to me. On the plus side, he's probably telling the same story. Hopefully it's funny from his end, too, now.

Wrong

[SmallFurryCreature]

It becomes a CEM when you stop sleeping with the boss's daughter. Or his wife. Or his dog.

WHAT? Oh like you never have.

The ending was clear when....

[Routerhead]

... she said this: I'm more worried about whether I've left my hair iron on than this little email exchange

Translation: I can't get a job now.

I think it can lower colleague's opinions

[jabelar]

For example, I was in charge of implementing a sales channel management program called "Relationship" from Pivotal, so we created a e-mail distribution list called "relationship users". Anyway, one of our VPs had created a personal distribution list to manage his personal relationships. He was married but sent out a (mistakenly broadcast) e-mail talking about how much "he enjoyed seeing Guys & Dolls last night and wanted to go out again". He later sent an e-mail saying that that e-mail was sent by a virus, but how did a virus know that Guys & Dolls was in town (it was showing the night before).

Shameless Tucker Max Plug

[fwice]

note: not for the faint of heart, or those of us with morals (there must be somebody out there)

Tucker Max

Summer associates

[EVil Lawyer]

OK, the reason the Summer didn't not get an offer for sending the e-mail:

1. It's "didn't not get an offer," not "got an offer." (At most large firms, they give close to 100% of their summer associates full-time offers).

2. Everyone knows Summers are BDJ (Busy Doing Jack). AND THE FIRMS LOVE TO ADMIT IT! The firms compete for the hearts and minds of the best law students by competing for the "best" summer program. Of course, to a law school student, "best" means "least work" and "most free food," and "hottest support staff".

Self-ref Irony [Re:To: DL:All-Employees]

[j.leidner]

If you didn't, I'm sure Doug Hofstadter would have ;-)

Re:Self-ref Irony [Re:To: DL:All-Employees]

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure Doug would be more impressed with a comment that linked to itself. Or, even better, to one of its replies. I know I would.

But I'd probably be less impressed with the vast amount of comment spam needed to achieve this.

I know this already

[kiyuki]

I watched Jerry McGuire.

no, not really

[ColGraff]

IANAL, but I'm starting law school in the fall. Folks, being a forceful advocate for one's client does not necessitate being a jackass - which seems a reasonable description of Ms. Abadala, based upon TFA. One can be persuasive, dedicated and hard-working without blowing people off - and it's a good idea to do so. Eventually, you *will* screw up a memo, or miss a deadline, or something like that. Whether you have a reputation for being a good, solid sort after that can determine what happens next.

I would also point out that judges do *not* like arrogant, condescending lawyers.

Frankly, I have all the sympathy in the world for the guy Ms. Abadala walked out on. It seems like he made a strong effort to be professional and courteous, and she made every possible effort to push his buttons for the hell of it.

Let me close on this point: This woman was *not* acting like a lawyer, and what she was doing was not what being a lawyer is about. She was being a twit.

you can see why business want DRM on email

[Anonymous Coward]

that will put an end to all this, self destructing email is their wet dream, leave the company and suddenly forget your passphrase, with unbreakable TPM chips on the horizon fraudulent companies must be salivating at the thought of the possibilities

IANAL

[Anonymous Coward]

And probably never will be.

- Dianna Abdala

ps. Dad, please send more money.

I've been wondering about this.

[BigZaphod]

I've been on the net for around 11 years now. I've been posting with the same username most places for probably 7 or 8 of those years. Sometimes I say incrediably stupid stuff and on one or two occations, other people have said stupid things using my name. As time goes on, this is only going to get worse. The question is, is it better to adopt different nicknames and change them over time or is it better to build at least some kind of recognizable reputation based on just one name? Which is worse if someone starts checking up on you?

Re:I've been wondering about this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes I say incrediably stupid stuff and on one or two occations, other people have said stupid things using my name. As time goes on, this is only going to get worse.

Eventually, you will be required to use your ID card to access the net, so this won't be a problem.

Re:I've been wondering about this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Um
Posting under a screen name/nick/whatever isn't a problem.
Having the nick linked directly to your real name and home address for ANYBODY to see is!

%whois bigzaphod.org
Registrant Name:Sean Heber
Registrant Organization:Fifth Ace Productions
Registrant Street1:414 DeLong Ave
Registrant Street2:Apartment #5
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Cascade
Registrant State/Province:Iowa
Registrant Postal Code:52033
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.3195565755
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:sean@fifthace.com

At least TRY to make it harder for them!

Blackberry mail

[BenEnglishAtHome]

Is it something about Blackberries that makes people stupid? Or are those little things too hard to read so that it's difficult to tell to whom you're sending copies of mail? I don't have one so I don't know; in my organization of over 100,000 employees, we have less than 1000 people with Blackberries. A while back, when that number was under 300 and you just knew that any email with that little blurb at the bottom about being sent via Blackberry meant that the sender was one of our highest-powered executives, there was a rash of embarrassing forwards. Apparently, someone on our primary front-line support mailing list thought it would be fun to occasionally cc the executives. We would then be entertained by lengthy debates on technical subjects conducted via Blackberry and it was always, always, ALWAYS the Blackberry users who posted the most inane, pointless, or technically incompetent garbage to the discussions. It was fun, sure, but it occasionally sunk in that the people who were ultimately tasked with, say, setting our wireless use policy were would be dictating our daily tasks for years to come DESPITE their aggressive cluelessness.

Sobering thought. Fun as some of those emails were, they were, ultimately, just depressing.

Must be nice

[MrNougat]

From TFA:

As for Ms. Abdala, she says a mea culpa "will never happen." She's living on funds provided by her father and has rented office space for her own practice. "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

I won't work under someone, earning my own way, but I'll shamelessly nurse from the teat. That doesn't work for people whose parents don't have the funds to be venture capitalists for their children.

Re:Must be nice

[Anonymous Coward]

or for parents that do have the cash... but have higher expectations for their children.

the faced attorney (any good attorney... and you aren't one!) and the parents of this monster.

as for her? she's just milking her system like a 4 year old that never grew up. that's why her parents look so bad right now. they still haven't let her grow up.

ps - even if my parents wanted to send money my way, i wouldn't accept it. then again, thevalue of my life isn't tied to things.

Re:Must be nice

[Anonymous Coward]

That's pretty noble of you. I stopped getting any kind of financial support after college, and have done pretty well for myself, but if my parents want to throw some cash my way I'm not going to be turning it down :P

Re:Must be nice

[ipfwadm]

even if my parents wanted to send money my way, i wouldn't accept it. then again, thevalue of my life isn't tied to things.

Who said you had to buy "things" with the money they're sending? Why not use it to support yourself (in the food and shelter sense of the phrase) while doing things that add value to your life? For example, I love to hike. What would I do if somebody was going to give me a trust fund? I'd stop working and go hiking. I certainly wouldn't blow it on a McMansion or a giant TV or any other "things".

This certainly isn't to disagree with the rest of your post. Just trying to point out that not all money must be spent keeping ahead of the Joneses.

A Most Famous Counter-Example: Paris Hilton

[Stephen Samuel]

I mean, who even heard about that smarmy tart before she was shown screaming for more on thousands of spamvertized websites around the world?

Re:A Most Famous Counter-Example: Paris Hilton

[robertjw]

Anybody that ever stayed in a hotel.

Re:A Most Famous Counter-Example: Paris Hilton

[Stephen Samuel]

Anybody that ever stayed in a hotel.

And I repeat: "Who ever heard of that smarmy tart" ....
(emphasis mine)

If she was a real lawyer...

[SoCalDissident]

She would've had one of this disclaimers at the end of her email that read something along the lines of:

This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. (I stole the disclaimer from my friends email; hope that doesn't count as 'use')

And, in this case, the ??? step would be "sue for unauthorized distribution). Quote the business plan; quite job, send snippy email, then sue if the boss passes it on.

This post is for the sole use of the intended /. recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution, or reply/rebuttal is prohibited.

Google, myspace, facebook... just diggin for dirt

[iamlucky13]

I saw an editorial in a recent issue of my alma mater's student newspaper where a girl was claiming to have been turned down for student-employment for lack of discipline or something like that. According to her story, when she asked for clarification, it turned out that the person who made the hiring decision had looked up her facebook.com profile and found a colorful hortatory statement with the president as its object. I'm pretty sure from her description, and a certain facebook profile with no optional information in it for one of the university staff members whom I personally learned to avoid if at all possible, that her story is true. One of my former bosses referred to such people as "dragon ladies."

Yikes! Going beyond the standard resume, references, interview when making a hiring decision obviously carries significant risk of creating unfair prejudices against a candidate. In this case, the person hiring dug into the candidate's personal life, didn't like her style of casual social expression (not necessarily related to her work behavior), and made a decision based largely on that rather than her actual qualifications. This may be standard practice, but its a questionable one.

Does anyone recall...

[VAXcat]

...the series of emails that went back and forth between some proto-spammer and an anti-spam advocate a while back? This was circa 1999. I think the proto-spammer was looking for a job as a developer, emailing his resume all over the place, and the anti-spam advocate took him to task over it. A really funny exchange of emails took place, with the job seeker acting nuttier and nuttier, and the distribution growing wider and wider. At the time, people speculated that the guy had easily scuttled any chance of ever being hired as a developer...wonder how it turned out. Wish I still had a pointer to it...Anyone else remember this?

Re:Does anyone recall...

[pete6677]

The guy's name was Bernard Shiffman. More info can be found here.

Emails? Pfft, amateurs...

[owlstead]

In the Netherlands we can put entire private computers stashed with ongoing police investigations at the trash. Especially if they do not work because they are stacked with porn and spyware (it was "broken").

http://www.nu.nl/news.jsp?n=422656&c=14 [dutch]

Or what about memory sticks with military intelligence without any encryption?

http://www.computable.nl/nieuws.htm?id=1088404 [dutch]

No careers were harmed during these operations. Email is for loosers!

[warning: do not try this if you earn less than $200.000 a year]

Abdala is full of piss, vinegar,...and shit

[BozoTheScary]

In contrast to her quotes from the article,...

"I'm more worried about whether I've left my hair iron on than this little email exchange,"

"It really isn't going to affect my career," says Ms. Abdala, "and if it does, it's probably for the better."

...Dianna Abdala does seem a little concerned about 'what comes around'. From The Boston Herald:

Abdala said she filed a complaint with the state Board of Bar Overseers. "Attorney Korman threatened my career," she said, "and I don't think anybody would have been welcoming to such a threat."

As to where all of this has gotten her:

She has since started her own practice, saying she will do court-appointed criminal defense work.

I'm sure that that's quite lucrative. Yeah.

Tell it to Peter Chung

[burris]

Something tells me that Peter Chung, formerly of the Carlyle Group, still regrets sending the infamous e-mail to his buddies that ended up in the NYT.

OB. Clerks the Animated Series quote:

[ePhil_One]

Leonardo Leonardo: Kill him, Plug!
Mr. Plug: I'm only a publicist, sir.
Leonardo Leonardo: Well, then kill him... with bad publicity.
Mr. Plug: [chuckles] Sir, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
Leonardo Leonardo: Plug!
Mr. Plug: Consider it done.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Just look at ScuttleMonkey et all

[Tiro]

Many people have been passed over for hire for something stupid they posted to Usenet or an Internet forum.

On the other hand, the editors of Slashdot have been posting dreck for years.

It has been read by millions, and they still have jobs!

And no sense of irony, either

[Just Some Guy]

She's living on funds provided by her father [...] "I've never been the type to work under someone," she says.

"Except Dad. I don't mind working for my dad. But anyone else? No, I wouldn't work for them."

Hiding in 247000 Google Hits - but world's small

[billstewart]

The usual line is that there's no such thing as bad publicity, just make sure they spell your name correctly. Google, of course, will offer to correct your name's spelling, which works if you've got the more common spelling. In more anonymous environments, you get some protection, at least if you've got a relatively common name (I'm not on the first page of Google's 247000 hits, for instance), but if you're in a more specialized field, it's a surprisingly small world, especially if you've been ranting on the net since the early 80s. So people that matter might know you, for good or bad, even though the net's really large.

Re:Google, myspace, facebook... just diggin for di

[onepoint]

Sometimes it's ok to piss off the person that pays you, but it's never a good idea to piss off ( or mention in bad light ) the person that funds you and your staff. too high of a risk with little to no reward.

She's an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

She's an idiot, and all the "followups" she has been providing to the initial emails just back it up. Smart clients will avoid her.

Re:She's an idiot

[jasonditz]

Hell, I'd hire her. It's nice to see someone who's not obsessed with that false politeness that passes for "professionalism" in this day and age.

Anyhow, nothing she wrote was that bad... she got a lowball offer and didn't feel the need to accept it. Then she got a pissy letter from the guy who just assumed she was going to accept and didin't like it.

Re:She's an idiot

[Tweekster]

she emailed her response..... shes stupid, a bitch, and a coward all rolled into one.

Re:She's an idiot

[jasonditz]

Well, that sort of eloquence is hard to argue with.

Well it can certainly help THEIR careers...

[Kingrames]

We've got two examples here from people in jobs working for lawyers.

Now, lawyers are not hired because they are nice to people, or because they are polite and chivalrous. They are hired for being direct when necessary, devious and cunning when not required to be direct. They prize their punctuation, spelling, and grammar, and their ability to piss off masses of people by doing very little.

Of COURSE these emails are going to help their career. Show us a programmer that "accidentally" sent the entire company a link to goatse and got hired for it, THEN we'll be surprised.

objigatory picture

[Anonymous Coward]

picture here since i'm sure you all were wondering this trust fund baby looks like

...oh...I don't know...

[C10H14N2]

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=107521981976 0
http://www.aabany.org/dewey_ballantine.htm

Emails like the one referenced above can lead to things like half your partners leaving, golden parachutes in hand...with your customers...en masse...to another firm...the same firm...together. ...oddly enough, the same firm made famous by the "hard at work doing jack" dude.

Gotta love legal.

Re:...oh...I don't know...

[Anonymous Coward]

BS.... they hired him to keep up their hire stats so that they can recruit the next class. People at my law school pay close attention to many are hired out of the summer class before agreeing to go to a firm, after all why take a risk?

Re:Google, myspace, facebook... just diggin for di

[winkydink]

You cannot discriminate because of race, creed, color, sex, place of national origin, and (in many parts of the US) sexual preference/orientation. Anything else is pretty much wide open.

If you say/do anything online that might make people question your judgement, you're screwing yourself over jobwise.

I've run two mailing lists for 13 years. There's not a year that goes by when I don't get somebody writing me, begging me, to take something they said out of the archives. What's witty at 21 can look pretty stupid at 34. Also, what's considered PC changes over time. So even though what you posted way back when was pretty tame stuff back then, it might be incendiary now. And it will get taken out of context.

pompous or not... she was right...

[Anonymous Coward]

what kind of attorney spends money they can't afford to burn w/o feeling bad without a contract?

not a very good one!

at least he appreciated being educated on contracts.

yes, she is absolutely a pompous lady.

however, the other attorney is a total jerk who, as we already know, isn't that bright.

first, he doesn't understand the role of contracts as well as a pompous and self centered recent graduate.

second, he made this private correspondence public, not realizing it made him look like an idiot as well as making here look pompous.

people are netertained with pretty pompous ladies.

nobody likes an idiot.

he lost on all counts.

any good attorney would've known that up front.

inexperienced primadonna - 1

dopey experienced attorney - 0

Problem with email communication

[Anonymous Coward]

The potential employer should not have changed the offer like that. I think this is more a lesson in how email is not the best medium to convey subtle emotions. Her first email comes across as a little snippy, I think she just misjudged the tone of her email and things escalated from there. I would be perturbed if someone altered the terms of a job offer and then assumed that I would just accept.

Re:Google, myspace, facebook... just diggin for di

[iamlucky13]

13 years...it's ridiculous, isn't it? Actually, I think the case I mentioned above, while not illegal, is a violation of Facebook's terms of service (by the person doing the hiring, that is).

It occurred to me as I was writing this, that the internet is far from the only way our past or personal life can follow us around. I remember during Judge Alito's confirmation hearings some people grilling him on his brief membership in college of a group that turned out to have some significantly racist or sexist views. And your point about what's PC changing over time is true, too. I recall digging up a joke about the World Trade Center that had first been told years before 9/11, but looking at it in context of those events, I doubt it would be found humorous by most people.

lol

[Baric]

I'm known by some as the guy who sent out the "worshipping Satan" email to the group broadcast. I was reported to HR and my boss required me to send a public apology. I then constructed the most obviously sarcastic apology possible and sent it out. Then I genericized it and made it my email signature for the next few months. When the subject is brought up, everyone has a good laugh about it. I would say that it did me no professional harm whatsoever.

Re:lol

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because Satan is protecting your ass.

It takes courage...

[premdevi]

Just a thought... Diana Abdala was at least honest. Think how much harm she could have done to both herself and the law firm that wanted to hire her if she had suppressed her feelings and just signed on? As an software development team leader, one of the main things I try to do when recruiting people if find which ones would really love to work with me on the project at hand and which ones are just there for the money and would have no passion for what they were doing. For whatever reason, she was honest enough to own up. (How many of you have someone in a team you work with who doesn't really want to be there, and what is it like working with them?). Oh Thank Goddess! Sure, she had her parents to fall back on and the finances to start her own practice, but it still takes some courage to burn your bridges like that. And her independance and quality of life is something she believes in. And she is willing to go against social norms to do what she believes in. So what we have here is a lawyer who is HONEST, has at least some type of PRINCIPLES, and the COURAGE to stand by them... And then on slashdot she is CRITICIZED? I'm so surprised...

Re:Google, myspace, facebook... just diggin for di

[twiddlingbits]

Your mailing list archives are PUBLIC and searchable? Remind me not to subscribe. Things said on a private list (i.e. not AOL/Yahoo) should remain among the group members.

FUD and Hype

[CtlAtlDelete]

What a load! A little research (Google and RTFA) reveals a slightly different version of events. Ms. Abdala was told at the last interview that the originally discussed salary would be reduced because he decided to hire two attornies instead of one. She told them that she would have have to think about it. It must be a slow news day. OTOH she's got some confidence and some spunk. It could've been much worse and I think the person that leaked it has more to answer for.

What the hell are you talking about?

[C10H14N2]

Seriously. That made no sense.

THINK

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no such thing as bad Modding :P A new mantra for the 21st century. (posting anonymously to save my abysmal karma :ducks: )

go for parent = +5 without a rating

[arrrrg]

or better yet, +5 troll. come on, we just need two more underrated's and 1 troll.

A Crime!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in Italy it's a crime to forward private email without consent.

What does being quiet accomplish?

[TallMatthew]

I've noticed an increasing reluctance to say or do anything particularly meaningful in email. No one ever wants to say anything about anything lest it be held against them for eternity. Oftentimes I ask a question in an email and get a phone call answer. It's as if we're all being held to the standards of elected officials.

But what's the point?

It doesn't change your work habits to not mention them in email. It doesn't change the attitudes of employees towards their bosses. It doesn't change who respects whom or who does what. Really, do we think that people don't goof off, talk shit about their boss, gossip about one another, say things they don't mean to get what they want? And yet the world comes down with a hammer when they get caught admitting it. We reward those who keep their secrets hidden and punish those who are caught being candid. Sounds almost religious.

If correspondence was directed to attack an authority figure or subvert their authority that's one thing, but oftentimes these emails are nothing more than mistakenly overheard conversations.

Disclaimer: I was canned once for telling a salesman what's what, a salesman who happened to record his phone conversations. Doh.

Readable email transcribes

[vginders]

Since when are email transcribes (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1635684) easily readable from top to bottom??

On another note, as email is easily forged, how easy would it be to victimise someone you disliked and get away with it before the victim could prove his right? With some luck a forged email would spread like most hoaxes and may be picked up by the media.

Well, if shes' so smart

[flyinwhitey]

Then why did she get outplayed by the weasel?

Why wasn't she smart enough to keep her bitchy attitude out of email (where it will live forever)?

Why wasn't she smart enough to get her offer in writing, so they couldn't change it later?

Google (at least sometimes) doesn't

[Anonymous Coward]

But funnily enough, it was obvious at my Google interview that none of the interviewers had.

No need to hire her

[Anonymous Coward]

She already rented a office space and opened her own firm. Looks like she's not too unhappy being a trust-fund baby. She said she took time off after "working hard" in law school...funny, I didn't realize "bla, bla, bla" was Latin for "Opening Soon!"