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Minnesota GOP's CD Raises Privacy Concerns
doginthewoods writes to tell us the ThinkProgress blog is reporting that the Minnesota Republican Party has been distributing a new CD about a recent proposed amendment. The CD poses questions about some of the hot-button issues like abortion, gun control, and illegal immigration. The problem with this CD, however, is that it "phones home" to the Minnesota GOP, without making it clear that your name is attached. So, if you take a look at the CD and take time to answer the questions, beware. Once you are finished they will know not only who you are, but where you stand on the issues at hand.
If you submit a form with your name on it... it submits your form with your name on it?!! The shock! The horror!
Anyway, the real story, if you actually read, is that the information you submit is supposedly available on a publicly accessible website.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Isn't this technically spyware? Illegal spyware, nonetheless?
Are you kidding? It's not illegal when politicians do it. And by it, I mean anything.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
Evidently, there's no notice that the information is submitted or sent beyond your computer, AND the information is publicly available. So, there's more to the story than an insecure web site.
Sounds like the Minnesota GOP thought the Sony DRM fiasco was pretty nifty.
Kythe
You people who pretend to care about privacy should look at your tax forms some time. Do you support a repeal of the income tax for privacy reasons?
(No. Without income taxes, you wouldn't get to spend money you didn't earn.)
From the story, it appears as though the CD is billed as an interactive issue advertisement: as in, you put the CD in, it asks you questions designed to get you riled up, then tells you about the issue, without any notice that the information is sent somewhere.
Of course, the story could be wrong or incomplete.
Kythe
I for one am shocked -SHOCKED- to see such behavior from a party that espouses both "small government" and keeping it's nose out of our business. This is completely out of character with the current administration, and I'm sure will be responsibly acknowledged and dealt with. Expect a public mea culpa from the president shortly.
Snickersnee3: Build your own 3-watt Luxeon Star headlamp from scratch
MPR post with screenshots
Original MPR article
My name is Aaron Landry, and I approve this message.
From part of his story at Minnesota Public Radio.
BEGIN QUOTE:
I wrote:
I really enjoyed the production work on the CD for the marriage amendment. It was first-rate stuff and as a Flash novice, made me a little bit envious. The copy that Tom Scheck gave me required an access code. Do all the CDs being mailed out come with an access code? If so, I'm curious as to why that is and wondering if the "votes" I'm asked to take during the presentation are reported back to the MN GOP? And, if so, are they matched to the access code and do you keep a record of what code is mailed to what person?
Mark was kind enough to respond promptly:
Thank you for the kind words regarding the high tech merits of the cd. Like any political survey done by the Party, it is our hope the cd will help us recruit more volunteers, provide valuable voter ID information and hopefully allow us to raise money so we can continue to send the cd out to more Minnesotans. On Friday, the cd will be released to the public. The cd's packaging will make clear that the cd is interactive in nature.
A follow-up e-mail from me:
So by interactive in nature, do you mean the results are being reported back to the GOP and, if so, are they identified by the access code?
And a response:
Yes- very similar process to if you got a free AOL cd at the grocery store.
zork% mv *.asp
283 files eaten by a grue
If it is spyware, it would be cool if a guy could get it widely distributed as an iso so everyone could test how strong the servers are in Minnesota and fill their tables up with worthless data... that would teach 'em, you betcha!
Oh come on, it's not like the Republicans weren't reading your email and listening to you phone calls anyway. You just never got around to the juicy stuff. So they finally just had to come right out and ask. You see what you made them do? Gawd! You're so whiny! And you talk to your mom waaay too much, dude. Seriously. They told me. And yeah, it's probably infected, you should have it looked at.
Oh, the Democrats do too, they're just being quiet about it right now. That's why they've been completely unable to field any sort of opposition to the Bush administration for the last 6 years.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Unfortunately, we still have the old Fascists, the democrats who want to tag and follow everyone...
Find coupons in Greeley
So why are they bothering with a CD?
They should just ask NSA and Microsoft for the information.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
firewall
heheh... yeah right...
Warning: spoilers below! skip this comment if you plan to RTFA!!!
That information is on a public Web site...the experts I talked with suggested that having it so readily available is "amazingly stupid" of any data mining company.
Funny and scary at the same time.
Even scarier is:
In fact, the mailing list of more than 259,000 names is also on the site, and easily downloaded.
Amazingly stupid indeed.
Typically they're more vocal in opposition to their positions on hotbutton issues being known.
It's the liberals who more often are advocates of a free flow of information -- OpenSecrets.org, for example, which while bipartisan is used an awful lot by the left to point out who gets corporate money.
I would expect a fair number of "closet" bigots to be furious shortly. Much bigger number than the other side.
...Woooooooosh!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
At least they're telling you you're beening spied on.
Whoo, signature!
DesireCampbell.com
You have to consider that the personal information, such as name and phone number, are probably there to keep people from voting more than once. Also, if you're filling out a form about your opinions and submitting it - whether it says you're sending it elsewhere or not - you're submitting it, for crap's sake. To submit means to turn something in. It's common sense, really.
Without a privacy policy, the state party can tell your views to anyone at all. If you give the "wrong" answers on abortion or other issues, they can tell your boss, members of your church, or anyone else. In fact, these answers could get distributed to campaigns in your town during get-out-the-vote efforts - precisely the place where "wrong" answers can be most damaging.
I'll believe it when I see it - if anyone really did that, it would be on the news in a heartbeat anyway. And - once again, common sense - it's just not going to happen.
What's worse. That information is on a public Web site. I'm not going to tell you what site we found it on, just to let you know that the data is there. And it can be found. Easily so. In fact, the experts I talked with suggested that having it so readily available is "amazingly stupid" of any data mining company.
Well that doesn't sound all so credible to me, but it does beg some consideration. It does sound like a privacy issue to me. But wait a minute - look at that image a little more closely. All I see is a bunch of names and dates and numbers - no opinions. If someone can prove that the opinions are shown, it's fairly serious. Otherwise, although many people may feel uncomfortable or intruded upon for it, it's only names. So do us all a favor and don't get the wrong impression.
I thought the title "Minnesota GOP's CD Raises Privacy Concerns" meant that the Republican Party was distributing a CD to inform people about privacy laws being thrown out the window... I should've known better.
Once you vote on the GOP-supported electronic voting machines, they will probably know how you would have voted if your vote had actually been counted.
Good grief, can we whore some liberal blogs a little more? Why not just link to the original Minnesota Public Radio article? Public radio isn't frothing at the mouth liberal enough for Slashdot now?
As for the actual charge, there is not even close to enough facts on just how much disclosure the packaging/eula has so it is hard to say much. But I'd assume the CD will come in a envelope with the Republican Party's name splattered all over it and that it will be mailed to people registered (and therefore in their computers, you did know that your voter registration is a matter of public record, right?) Republicans. So who is behind it and who will be getting the information should be fairly easy to suss out. And anybody with half a clue (i.e. most Republicans) will know the answers to this 'survey' will be heading to party HQ and used to target more fundraising appeals to ya. Because if you have EVER donated to a political party or organization you know that fundraising is job one. If that CD doesn't include a postage paid return envelope and beg letter asking the reader to give till it hurts they need a new party chairman.
Democrat delenda est
Fascism transcends party line. The definition of fascism, as offered by its creator Benito Mussolini: "The collusion of business and government for the mutual benefit of both."
Ergo, President Bush is a consummate fascist because he places the interests of business foremost in his agenda. Furthermore, the Republican Party - the 'party of business' - is interested in minimizing government restriction on business at the expense of the common citizen. Can't get much more fascist than that.
And before you accuse me of being specifically anti-Republican, the Democrats do the same, they just sugar-coat it. They soft-sell fascism. The key difference between them is that the Republicans these days have made a point of ensuring anyone who might have a moderating influence is safely out of power, while a few key Democrats who believe in the rights of the common person have somehow managed to keep afloat within their party...
This year with Diebold-brand electronic voting, we can expect even these few reasonable guys to be run out of office thanks to the happily untracable rigging of elections.
the funny thing is that this could easily turn against them. what if their enemies took the CD, and had many people answer the questions contrary to what the GOP would want to publish?
they would in effect be promoting the opinions they seek to disregard.
Cold?!? It was *above* freezing today!!!
Jim
mnjim.com
This is insufferable - we will not stand for any stinkin' politicians finding out where we stand on important issues.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
It's rumored that version 2.0 will contain a GPS-enhanced RFID tag that surreptitiously penetrates you subcutaneously. This is so that the GOP underground wing can anally probe you at will. That'll teach ya to support fag weddings!
"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that ones work is terribly important." -BRussell
Haha. You think that they aren't?
No. Spyware, by definition is something that collects information about you and sends it without you knowing it. Filling out a form in a program that you deliberately ran and having that same program send that information somewhere is not spying. What would be the purpose of filling out such a survey (into which you entered your name), if not to be sent somewhere so you can receive political junk mail (or "analog spam", as I like to call it)?
Now, in my highschool government class (which was required for graduation), we had to take a "test" at the end that asked for our opinion on some key issues like welfare, taxes, and I forget what else. As I recall, this was to be sent elsewhere to be "evaluated". I always suspected that this information ended up on file with the state government so they could characterize everyone's political views. The difference is that the GOP software is optional.
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
The IRS is limited in what it can reveal about your tax information. See here for more information. The republican party is under no such restrictions.
AccountKiller
Something is not right with the so-called 'packet captures' provided by the person that wrote the article on the Minnesota Public Radio site (http://www.publicradio.org/columns/minnesota/poli naut/):
And let's assume -- and remember this is a hypothetical here -- I had enough intelligence to decompile the program and figure out what data is being captured and sent. Could I do it?
Yes. Someone did.
No.", "Time", "Source", "Destination", "Protocol", "Info" "1", "17:11:52.780492305", "192.168.125.128", "10.2.2.81", "TCP", "1106 > http [SYN] Seq=0 Ack=0 Win=64240 Len=0 MSS=1460" "2", "17:11:52.794481754", "10.2.2.81", "192.168.125.128", "TCP", "http > 1106 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=64240 Len=0 MSS=1460" "3", "17:11:52.799275636", "192.168.125.128", "10.2.2.81", "TCP", "1106 > http [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=64240 Len=0" "4", "17:11:52.806763172", "192.168.125.128", "10.2.2.81", "TCP", "[TCP segment of a reassembled PDU]"
Now that's pretty basic stuff: what your IP is, what your CPU is, what your operating system is. But is it possible to find out what your answers are to the questions? Including your phone number, your address, your name, your spouse's name and how you vote?
Yes. Someone did.
The IP addresses listed in the snipet above are both part of IANA-reserved ranges for internal use.
So, until they show the real packet contents, I'm calling bullshit on the conspiracy theory, and tell refer them to the first post on this thread.
"We'll need 2000 crickets, 4 cans of Easy Cheese, and the fluid from 18 glowsticks for this plan to work...." - ph0n1c
minimizing government restriction on business at the expense of the common citizen
Well, no. It is acting under the belief that businesses' freedom is good for the common citizen, although there are certainly people in both that are corrupt and do not act upon their parties' beliefs.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
So does claiming that Republicans are reactionary vocal bigots make you a bigot?
"A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own."
Hmmm...
Also, I find it somewhat interesting that you use opensecrets as an example of a site used mostly by the left. it's funny, becuase I've always thought the opposite--that it shows just how much corporate money goes to Democrats, top donors etc. That's the good thing about the site though, it shows EVERYONE's info.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
It also places an absentee vote for all Republican cannidates in the next election. The fact the disk was authored by Diebold should have been a clue. It did make me suspicous that it asked for the names of any friends or relatives that died in the last year. Look on the brightside we may finally have 110% voter turnout.
Sending out a CD with inadequate privacy notifications is not Fascism
if you receieve an un-solicited CD thru the mail, you stick it in your CD drive and see what happens?
:)
You guys crack me up
need a free COBOL editor for Windows?
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
If you are a right-thinking American, what do you have to fear ;-)
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
What they may or may not want to do is beside the real point which is the Republicans are the ones actually doing it right now.
The Replublicans are the guilty ones and if you support them, then you are as well.
Considering they would wiretap innocent Americans without a warrant, run secret prisons in soviet bloc countries, rig elections, award no-bid government contracts to their friends, invade Iraq on false pretences and loot the federal budget....how does a CD that phones home compare to that? If you're so far gone that you still support the Republican party, then a CD is not going to change your mind.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
you folks don't get it.
i slation/
1 040953/k.522/Press_Release__So_Called_Right_of_Pri vacy.htm
the GOP has spent a lot of time and effort enforcing the idea that there is no right to privacy guaranteed in the Constitution.
from Scalia's speeches to select groups, to recent SCOTUS decisions, they are slowly making it clear the the individual has no constitutional right to privacy.
so it stands to reason that business and political interest can garner whatever information they deem necessary without your permission.
this is not a trollish post..it's the truth. please reference these pieces for more information:
http://txfx.net/2005/03/15/scalia-on-judicial-leg
http://www.savethecourt.org/site/c.mwK0JbNTJrF/b.
and then there is this from the People for the American Way
"On the broader constitutional issue of privacy, Scalia's and Thomas' views are so extreme that their rulings would also do widespread damage by reaching beyond the specific issue of abortion to threaten access to contraception and reproductive health services. In opinions such as Casey and Scalia's concurring 1990 opinion in Cruzan v. Missouri Department of Health,33 they contend that the Constitution does not protect any right of privacy concerning reproduction or bodily integrity whatsoever. If this view comes to command a majority of the Supreme Court, it would threaten landmark decisions like the 1965 ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut, 196534 and could permit state laws banning the sale or use of contraceptives or similar steps to violate privacy rights long taken for granted by all Americans. Such an outcome may seem highly unlikely, but the ongoing controversy over approval of RU-486, for example, is a reminder that laws are sometimes more responsive to pressure groups than to broad public opinion."
Is it 5:30 yet?
>Seriously, editors...are you trying to drive conservatives away from the site? Is it intentional?
What do President Bush and the GOP have to do with conservatives? "Conservative" means reluctant to change existing institutions, wanting to limit the power and the expense of government, and pursuing a hardheaded foreign policy that is meant to *advance* American interests.
Hey, I heard John Kerry kicked a puppy last week.
Like you, I'm furious that nobody picked up on the story.
And again, like you, I plan on submitting to Slashdot more stories about nefarious Democratic doings. Especially the ones that relate to "News For Nerds."
Bookmark this link: http://slashdot.org/submit.pl
Use it to grind your political axe
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Once you are finished they will know not only who you are, but where you stand on the issues at hand.
OH NO! I *definitely* don't want a politician to know what I think! How could he possibly act purely within his own interests if we bombard him with our own opinions?
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
(disclaimer: insane leftist psycho)
Apparently us liberals are now terrified of anyone knowing our opinions. Yeah, it's bad that there are no privacy concerns in the terms of use, and I'm not surprised that Republicans are trying to hide their underhanded methods of stealing information.
But crap, they aren't getting my social, or the combination to my luggage (12345). Don't you WANT the government to know how you feel on the issues? Isn't that the point of a democratic society? And your boss? Your church? Why be so afraid to think what you think?
I don't know, I guess I can see some people wanting that information private. That can't be the majority view, though...
---
"how can the same street intersect with itself? i must be at the nexus of the universe!" - cosmo kramer
I'm not saying you are wrong, but last time I checked the Republicans aren't the only party with seats in congress. I believe many, if not most democrats supported the initial invasion into Iraq, the Patriot act and any number of activities taht could be interpreted as 'Facist'. Their complacency and inaction is, if anything, more inexcusable than what the Republicans have practiced. If you are so far gone that you still support the Democrats this CD shouldn't bother you at all.
Find coupons in Greeley
An excellent source of information to fill the form with
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Not everyone understands the difference between:i ted_States)#Ideological_Base
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(Un
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
This is even more silly than that.
While idiots might believe complete business freedom is good for the "common" citizen, I highly doubt that's why the current Republican leadership is trying to deregulate as much as possible.
Of course, he was of a different opinion when his Social Security Number became pubic domain.
So does claiming that Republicans are reactionary vocal bigots make you a bigot?
"A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own."
Not if you can read.
It is bad that they would collect information without informing you but GOD FORBID (sarcasm) a politician actually know where people stand on issues. Come on, is this really that big of a deal? I would gladly hand over my name and opinion if I knew my local congressman would actually give a damn.
I'm just curious. It seems kinda odd that a post that just spews random "Liberals are evil so we must ignore everything they say" nonsense is a "+4 insightful"
There's no actual content or arguments in the post. The closest it comes is wild speculation about what the packaging looks like.
Is this really what passes for being "Insightful" in this day and age?
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
This could be a fun way to fudge their numbers. ISO torrent please!
Trolling is a art,
there would be "obvious" tag on this.
The primacy of the state over the individual. Or that is its identifying characteristic. There are othere things such as glorification of militarism, extreme nationalism and expantionism that are common denominators among fascist regimes. What most people call fascism is really totalitarianism.
A blog about stuff.
"I rob banks because that's where the money is."
When you control the executive, both houses of Congress, and an increasingly large fraction of the courts, you should probably expect to become the primary target for political attacks. After all, that's where the power is.
And how could you run an attack on the opposition party, seeing as there is none? The Democrats are about as effective as the Whigs, right now, and they don't seem to have the wherewithal to change that.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
The Republican Mods must be out in force tonight. Some Ditto-head jumps up and spew the same old same old talking points, and the mods seem to be lapping it up.
The sad thing is, according to many Republicans today, reporting on ANY negative aspect of Republican actions equates to Liberal fear mongering. The outright Religious faith republicans have in The Shrub is a pathetic thing to see. It's the same mentality that leads people into the sway of televangelists and their ilk.
I guess some people just WANT to be deceived, or are too mind numbingly stupid to realize they're being fooled. How else can one explain the continued existence of the Republican party?
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
"Their complacency and inaction is, if anything, more inexcusable than what the Republicans have practiced"
Thats an awesome new tactic.
The people that dont do it are more guilty than the people that do.
finally we can stop the "Clinton did it also" tactic and start with this new one the "they are not as bad as the people that let it happen." tactic.
Spead the word this tactic needs to get out as soon as possible if the republicans are to win the 2006 elections.
I an not saying that you agree with that tactic as i did read the parent post where you stated "I'm not saying you are wrong" i just liked the thing about people let it happen, it gave me a laugh.
Hmm, I thought they were trying to drive conservatives toward sanity, but hey, whatever does it for ya.
Its not as if the tax helps the goverment, whats the difference 7 trillion in debt or 17 trillion in debt.
While I don't support the democrats I have to drop a John Stewart quote here about their presense in the house.
"the Democrats have 49% of the vote and 3% of the power."
A blog about stuff.
Considering they would wiretap innocent Americans without a warrant ...
The Republicans did that for Al Quaeda suspects. The Democrats did that for Martin Luther King Jr.
No, it's called a SURVEY being distributed in the MAIL. Why are you liberals up in arms? Just because a computer is being used instead of an envelope?
An Uncomfortable Truth
Who do you think was going to read your answers to the questions you asked?
;-)
I thought it was an electronic voting simulator.
You wanna talk cold, come up to visit bemidji...
is it legal for them to decomplie the software? just wondering...
always mosh clockwise
cold? It has been the crappiest winter ever this year. Barely been cold, barely any snow.
Anyway, people should realize that if they spend time filling out a huge form, it MAY be sent to someone.
That's the new face of Republican "personal resonsibility" values: if the Republicans screw up, accuse the Democrats of doing it years and years ago...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
That's the point, though. Whether you want them to or not, they're finding out via this CD. (And not just them, apparently; also whoever can hack this public, unsecured web site.)
My opinions--that is, my beliefs; my thoughts--are the most private data I have. Some I'm happy to share with the world at large, but some I'm not. I'm a lot more concerned about letting government into my head than into my luggage.
I should buy some cement.
In Minnesota it wouldn't be hard. Just split the Twin Cities area like a pie with the pieces extending out into the farmlands. Seriously, Minneapolis is like a giant blue doughnut hole in the middle of a huge red suburban wasteland. If the GOP could figure out a way to keep the urban folks from voting, they'd win every electoral vote in Minnesota.
steampunk web design
Have any recommendations in particular? Does the left have its own version of The Economist---that is, does it have a serious intellectual newspaper that aspires to articulate a consistent political platform? I would so love that.
Total Information Awareness lives on
I like how you get modded up..but anyway.
So the poster claims that republicans tend to be vocal about "hot button issues." he claims that there are a great deal of "closet bigot" republicans.
Examining the questions in the survey, they are all simple questions. They are for the most part value based questions, and many of them are answerable by degrees.
So you tell me--if you call someone who disagrees with you on value based questions a biggot, are you yourself a biggot?
In a related note, the Minnesota Republican Party has signed an agreement with Sony-BMG's to further develop rootkit technology.
Both parties insist that it is in the best interest of the public.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Or one person with software to flood them with cooked data. Maybe they were smart enough to check for loads of connections from one IP address, but that's what lists of open proxies are for, right? ("According to our results, lots of people in Korea agree with us, mainly in the 65-85 demographic.")
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Yer both right.
And what does this prove?
A blog about stuff.
Yes, it is legal to decompile the software. What you do with the information or what modifications you make to the software afterwards change the legal implications and require a team of lawyers to interpret.
in minnesota
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
The upstanding DFL party's defense against this: voter fraud. Why else would they be against a law stating that you could only vouch for 10 people at a voting station? As it is now anyone can vouch for an unlimited number of people. No ID required (by those vouched for). Not even a utility bill. No, just come and vote and vote and vote. No proof that those voting are citizens, how are the vouchers supposed to know? They're just my non-English speaking neighbors!
I recently received a letter from the Republican National Committee, which in no uncertain terms implied that I have donated to them before, and were hoping that I will do so again. Now, I have never made a donation to any political party (partly because I am not a US citizen, and it could be illegal).
My first thought was that the RNC was lying, which is somewhat expected from Republicans. Then, however, I saw that in one of the latest political scandals involving lobyists, one of the issues was that donations had been made in others' names, which is illegal.
So do you know if your name is on a GOP donations list? The scheme in the article can easily be used for that purpose.
You evidentally have no idea how your government works. If you can't get the votes because of the rules, you break them until you do. The party in power is the one controlling the agenda. It is the one that decides what issues get heard, how long they are heard, or even if they are heard.
B.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
Stereotypes are the oldest form a deception in the world of politics. You have been sucked into it like a ray of light get sucked into a black hole.
Don't you just hate it when that happens?
Also, I suggest more swear words. Use more swear words. Then people will really know I'm wrong and you're the thoughtful idea-party.
sorry, i meant the -12 weather last week
I think moderating parent post as flamebait just proves that he's right. It isn't flamebait, it's accurate.
Yeah, may I assume you are joking?
Because if what he said was true, he would get a warrant. No judge would or could deny a warrant to tap the phone of an Al Qaeda suspect.
The ENTIRE issue is: why didn't he get the warrant?
You might also note the FBI complaints that the program generated thousands of tips, and all of them worthless. They had to investigate thousands of Americans who had absolutely no connection to terrorism (not just AlQaeda).
And even worthless tips would be o.k. if they were legal; the question is, why no warrant to make them legal?
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
Is it really big news that Republicans are anti-democratic, anti-freedom, and anti-conservative? (Yes, if you voted for Bush, you are against conservatism in it's traditional sense that Bush Sr. stood for, and that the GOP stood for only several years ago, sorry, but that's how it is).
How is this "News for Nerds"?
Not plagerism. And learn to express yourself with words that weren't fed to you by littlegreenfootballs while you're at it.
And in general, your understanding of who is a primary source is incorrect. When it comes from Reuters, it's "Reuters reports", not "NYT reports", at least it isn't done that way in journals with any kind of respectability.
But I don't expect you to really pay attention to anything I say because it contradicts your beliefs, at least it would seem from your idiotic vocabulary of buzzwords.
If you want to bitch about blog-linking, you can leave out the loaded words when complaining about it. Then some people might be able to take you seriously.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Obviously this is a "recruiter" CD where the point is to convince you that you should be a Republican voter. Basicly information in an interactive package.
In addition, it is also either a poll or an interview. And as long as they make it clear which it is, I don't have a problem with it.
By "poll" I mean anonymous information about "What issues are the people considering voting Republican concerned about?" Obviously an interesting question without the individual specifics.
By "interview" I mean collecting personal information, which is perfectly fine if you agree to it. Perhaps some people even want to opt in to more political "information".
Let's for a moment say that this is instead a newspaper.
If I'm asked to participate in a poll, I'm perfectly happy to read "[Party] up 0.2% in latest poll"
If I'm asked to do an interview, I'm perfectly happy to see my interview in a "Why I vote..." interview series with name and picture (or I could refuse).
I'd be pretty damn pissed if someone asked me to take part in a poll and it got posted like an interview with name and picture.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Shesh...and you filled it out? I'd a just filled everything out with "I do not awnser litmus tests" or if it was a multiple choice thing the same awnser for everything. Scary indeed.
The Democrats are no longer the party for Southern racists, although the Democratic party certainly was at one time.
John F. Kennedy wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr., I don't think he counts as either a Southerner or a racist.
You need to get that checked. Kneejerk responses because of perceived political slant is dangerous to your credibility.
Now, the point of the article isn't that it was a certain political party (in this case the GOP), but that it was an unannounced case of data collection, possibly even masquerading/playing down the data collection. If it were a liberal group doing the same, the concern would be as great, the outcry most likely even greater. I suspect you would be one of the loudest critics if it were (for example) California Democrats doing it.
This is unethical, no matter who does it. However, that the Republican party is doing it makes it even more serious, due to their recent history of abusing such data.
Apply for a warrant? Are you insane? He might get one of those nasty Judges that disagree with Bush's personal opinions and make decisions based on the law instead. Tom DeLay would go batshit again, and then where would we be?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
If you don't vote, we'll assume how you would've voted and vote for you! Hey, just trying to make your life more comfortable and convenient!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Reps of my youth were people who didn't "care". They were the proverbial liberal. Go ahead and do. Freedom for all, to rise to the olymp of the Gods or fall into the gutter. We don't care. Go and do! It's your life, not ours.
The Reps I see now have little in common with them. While they expose similar liberal views on the economic side, they start be very obsessed with control on the personal side.
Now, full blown liberalism on the economic side and tight control of the personal freedom is the key mark of fascism. Look at Germany in the 1930s and you will see a LOT of parallels.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The right's priorities:
...
1. Hate liberals.
2. 'Win' elections.
3. Hate gays.
4. Hate blacks/asians/
5. Hate women.
6. Hate the poor.
7. Hate facts. (when they get in the way)
8. Hate science.
9. Hate freedom.
10. Hate individuality and dissent in general.
11. Hate sex.
12. Love to send the military to needless deaths.
13. Hate peace.
14. Hate the environment.
999. Hate love.
1000. Love hate.
1001. Love sweeping overgeneralisations.
So, basically, the goverment:
1- Is asking you questions about important issues
2- Is listening to your answers
3- Is doing it in a way convenient for you - CD and the internet
and consequently,
4- You are afraid they might use these answers for political purposes.
What's wrong with you people? Would you prefer a statement like "we garantee that your opinion will never be recorded or used for any decision we will make" ?
As I learn more and more, I realize I don't know much.
"Spyware, by definition is something that collects information about you and sends it without you knowing it. "
Do you mean something like Gator? That puported to be a storage vault for all your details so you can handily use them later, but their name is synonymous with spyware because they sent it all back without notification (or at least very little). From my reading, it sounds like the CD represents itself as information, not a conduit to a political party.
Furthermore, the very fact that it is on a CD tends to imply that it is local to that computer. If the someone put the exact same stuff on a website then I would assume that they get any information I tell them, and then some. Since it is on a CD however, I expect my local copy to stay a local copy, unless it tells me.
I don't agree with it, all they needed to do is state what the point of the questioneer is. That way, you knew what you were doing when you filled it out. If you wanted that information submitted, fine, no problem, but if you didn't, you just didn't fill it out.
I also don't think it will be a problem how they were saying the information could be used, "to tell you boss." I don't think so, the is stretching the imagination a little too far.
My friend was helping with the presidental campign this past year. He was given a laptop by the office and it was loaded with or had access to a database that he was able to look up anyone and see their past voting history and other information like that. Now, we didn't go into details of how they got this information and all who had access to obtain it, but they did buy it from some where. While I was around, he was able to look up everyone that was around at the time and tell us who and what we voted for and it went back a long time.
So this isn't really that bad on the greater scheme of things compared to what is out there. It doesn't help though.
When I saw the story on the news they made it look like it was all about gay marrage ban(Any one who wants to go though the hell of marrage is welcome to it). But now it sounds like a fishing email. (you get it go to the site and fill out junk info)
Interesting point. I don't think you're insanely leftist, at least by that post. But the OP's attitude actually might be illustrative of why the current public political divide SEEMS so huge, when in fact it's not.
See, it's not that I care that anyone knows my opinion, but the wearing of one's opinion on ones' sleeve is an invitation to friction. It is - it's waving a big red flag about my beliefs, and challenging anyone who thinks I'm wrong to confront me on it. IMO a society can't work like that on a constant basis.
We ALL have differing ideas about things. We express our opinions about our beliefs about how government should run by our casting votes for candidates that we feel (at least somewhat) mirror our views. But we can't all have everything the way we want.
Worth repeating: we can't all have everything the way we want.
So 'society' as a concept is a bunch of people COMPROMISING on their wants to come to a collective existence that's pretty good for all. Part of that collective existence is "not waving my beliefs in others' faces, PARTICULARLY if they are contentious".
I know that probably sounds very tepid and milquetoastish, but the comfort and happiness of the people around me in my life IS important to me (to some degree, anyway), EVEN IF WE DISAGREE ON IMPORTANT ISSUES.
I see our current polity as being all about "me" for everyone: "my wants", "my needs", "my beliefs". Frankly, I see it more from Liberals than I do from Conservatives (ok folks, we can take the Kerry, Gore, and Wellstone stickers off the cars now), although I see it more and more from the part of the Republican party I don't particularly like, the 'demonstrative conservatives' - ick to all of you, on both sides.
Part of society is about getting along with others. I see far more effort being spent on people's own gratification, and very little effort or thought going into consideration of the people around oneself.
As a life philosophy, I like this statement (and see how MUCH of it (boldface) is devoted to OTHERS):
"The TRUE GENTLEMAN is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."
- John Walter Wayland
Be proud of what you believe in. Work to make your ideas happen, and don't shrink from defending them. But think about how your actions impact others, and simply try to be nice.
Is that so wrong?
-Styopa
Thanks to years of diligent investing in greenhouse gases, its been a freakishly warm winter. Warmest January since 1846. Ya, for sure.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
What state did you attend high school in?
Looks like the Repubs have taken Scott McNealy's past statements about privacy to heart. You have no privacy. Unless, of course, you are from a Big Oil or Big Pharma corporation involved in policy planning with Dick "Don't Mess With Me Or I'll Shoot You In The Face" Cheney. My guess is that, if informed about this, some GOP spokesdroid will say "Phone home? Never heard of such a thing. Besides, if you have nothing to hide..."
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
"Interactive" in the sense that the GOP-slanted questions will troll for your kneejerk responses to hot button issues like abortion and gay marriage, and then after seeing which wedge issues light your fire they'll come back grubbing for money based on those. Also similar to AOL in that I'm pretty sure once you're on their list, it's heck to get your "service" cancelled.
Certainly not "interactive" in the sense that you could cause them to change their mind or position about anything.
(I live in Minnesota. Our Republican party used to call itself the "Independent" Republicans. Somewhere in the mid-1990s or so, they strayed from the old genuine conservatism, which we had a fine tradition of here, to become one more state party headed largely by the fundie organizers who wring scads of money from outstate rural districts. At that point the "IR" decided the "Independent" part didn't convey their alignment with the national party well enough, and they removed the extra word. It was just so awkward to have around, "Independent." Haven't gotten any votes from me since, and I try to spread my choices across all available parties if I can.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
the ineptitude of the Republican party these days really amazes me - :)
and i'm one of them, at least nominally. In addition to this latest
folly, the national hq has been using a spam list the past 6 months
to send out propoganda. I've called them twice, explained that a)
they will only piss people off by spamming and b) given that some of
the addresses they spammed me with are over 10yrs old and inactive
they are being ripped off to boot. Even blogged about it. Do they
get the message? Not yet... though I think they will next November. Er
wait..maybe not.. they only have to run against Dems right?
>Apply for a warrant? Are you insane? He might get one of those nasty Judges that disagree with Bush's personal opinions and make decisions based on the law instead
I humbly apologize.
I LOVE BIG BROTHER !!!
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
One interesting side issue in all this concerns how marketing organizations can exploit CDs like these to end-run the do-not-call rule in telemarketing. In later comments by the original Minnesota Public Radio author http://www.publicradio.org/columns/minnesota/polin aut/ he cites an executive at the firm that developed this CD who talks about how marketers can use this approach to establish a "prior relationship" with people that can then be used to justify calling them for marketing purposes. I'd be curious if marketing versions of this CD make any of this explicit. Apparently the only terms of use on the MN Republican CD enforce the rights of the software developers.
Note that this doesn't apply to the Minnesota Republican Party's use of this technology since political solicitations are explicitly excluded from the do-not-call law (wonder why?).
I don't know what I would do if Jesus wasn't on their side. I might find things like this to be morally wrong or un-justified.
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
I missed the part where he swore at you. If you can't take the word 'sucking' in that context, I guess you really are braindead.
What cold? I grew up there and moved away in 1980. Every time I talk to my sister she tells me how much warmer it is now.
The kids these days. In MY day we had to walk to school in -20F weather. Uphill, both ways.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
I missed the part where he swore at you.
He didn't. I thought it was strange so I suggested he correct it.
They just put winning elections ahead of national security.
Total bullshit--I haven't seen the left win a notable election in at least 8 years. How can you possibly say that the left cares more about winning elections than their values with Howard Dean as the Democratic party chair?? Not exactly famous for winning national elections, but he's totally committed to the core values.
It is the Republican party who has sacrificed their core values on the altar of electoral success.
Small government? Forget it--seniors here is your $600 billion+ pill benefit, contractors here are your $60 billion in non-compete bid contracts. Thanks for the donations and votes.
National security? Forget it--we're going to transform the military by shrinking it drastically (look up Rumsfeld's first 6 months in office), we don't need troops when we've got technology. Whoops! Terrorist attack! Ok, now we'll pay attention to national security. No no, of course we don't need a Homeland Security Dept. Oh, it will mean votes? Ok, we can have one. (look up Bush's huge flip-flop on this one)
Personal responsibility? Forget it, not needed. The government will decide what you can do in your home, what you can write, say, watch on TV, or think, what you can do with music or movies you buy, what books you can check out of the library, etc. Thanks for the soft money, corporations and churches.
Fiscal responsbility? Who needs it, right! Here's your payoff, err, tax cuts. Thanks for the votes, don't worry about paying it back, the next generation will take care of that. The young ones don't vote for us anyway, might as well stick'em with the bill.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
This is so true.
1. Democrats, Iron Fist in Velvet Glove
2. Republicans, Iron Fist in Iron Glove. With spikes on it. But hey, it looks cool and macho.
Arguments between Democrats and Republicans really boil down to the discussion in that Death Star boardroom after Governor Tarkin announced that the Senate had been dissolved and one of the officers asked, "how will we keep the local systems in line without the rubber stamp," and Tarkin replied, "fear will keep the local systems in line: fear of this station."
However, I will note that there are a few pro-liberty Republicans still in power. The obvious one is "Dr. No," Representative Ron Paul. I really need to compile a list. Yes, I expect it will be a short list...
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Quite true, but there are many idiots that don't believe that. On the other hand, there are also non-idiots that would agree with your statement, even some Nobel Prize winners.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
sorry I forgot to use html on that
Ohio. Graduated in 1997.
If you can read this sig, you're too close.