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Mac Mini and iPod Hi-Fi Over-Hyped?
RX8 writes "Analyst Michael Greeson takes a look at Apple's new products, the Mac Mini (Intel based) and iPod Hi-Fi and explains why they were over-hyped and how that can damage Apple. Michael explains that when you are 'an industry innovator - when your products fall short of being truly original, your own success becomes your worst enemy.'" Update: 03/04 00:07 GMT by Z : As many posters have pointed out, the article here has little to do with the synopsis. This article is mostly about the design for the mac mini and its remote, which is a fairly interesting topic. Mea culpa, folks.
For one, Greeson specifically states that he's not going to go into whether or not Apple overhyped their latest releases; by the tone he takes, one suspects that he sees the grumbling of "Apple's fanatical base" as a largely unavoidable cost of taking innovative risks. Beyond that, though, the focus of his article is on the remote control included with the mini; how it is simultaneously easy-to-use and powerful--he calls it "sophisticated simplicity"; and how he hopes and expects future devices to try to mimic Apple's design choice.
Instead, this summary takes a throwaway bit from the introduction and completely ignores the entire point of Mr. Greeson's article. The summary goes on to state that Mr Greeson thinks Apple over-hyped their latest product release--even though he explicitly says otherwise in his article. If I were Mr. Greeson, I'd be more than a little peeved that you'd so fundamentally butchered and misrepresented my work. Not even two minutes of the most basic editorial work would have revealed this.
You've been trolled, Zonk, and now it falls to us to clear the air. Of course, the joke's on us, too: we're not the ones who are getting paid to do the job in the first place.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Hopefully we'll see a new revision Mac Mini's with an improved graphics chip later on, perhaps a ATI X1300?
That's not what the article is about at all, really. He even comes out and specifically SAYS For the purpose of this essay, let's forget about whether Apple failed to live up to its own PR.
The article is praise about its remote.
As soon as the invitations hit the 'net, all sorts of rumours (note: these are *not* Apple-created) surface. Some people publicly projected their own desires onto the event, irrespective of how likely it is, and then these self-same people get all disappointed when their fantasy doesn't come true. These people need to (a) get out more, (b) have more sex, and (c) move on from the mental state of a five-year-old ("Me want", "Me want", "Me want"). [aside: note that (c), as applied to (b), is more likely after (a). Just a hint to get you started...]
The fault here lies solely, completely, and utterly with those who raise Apple on too high a pedestal. There's only so much cool stuff any one company can make (although I thought the new mini *was* pretty cool, personally).
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
If it weren't hyped and pumped up with 3-word soundbytes prime for spoonfeeding... ...would it still be Apple?
do() || do_not();
This announcement shouldn't even have been an event. New McMini? Yeah, that was inevitable. An iPod ghetto blaster? Kinda goes against the whole portable movement, doesn't it? And as far as "innovative" goes, well, it's a box of speakers. We've been able toconnect iPods to various speaker systems for 3 years now.
But, then again, Apple wasn't the only one who hyped this up. Didn't the rumor sites all predict a bigger video iPod?
Is the Jobs reality distortion field hype, or does he realy change reality?
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You mean to tell me that advertising a screenless MP3 player with random mode as a life changing revolution could be a bit over the top?
/Doesn't own a Shuffle
//But already owned another cheap generic brand no-feature MP3 player with the same chipset
So, he seems to be saying that like the "gifted" children that show higher interest and aptitude in certain areas, Apple must do better because they're clearly capable of it.
I've seen lots of kids drop out of college because of reasoning like that from their parents. They get discouraged and stop trying, because they are capable of doing better, even when they aren't interested in "doing better" at the time.
Just seems counter productive to expect something groundbreaking from Apple everytime there's an annoucement. Apple didn't overhype it - the press did. The rumors sites did. Apple will display innovation when they have something innovative to ship - they never promised that the Intel-based machines would be anything groundbreaking - just Macs with Intel processors - which is exactly what they are, and more (Front Row).
So don't expect the gifted child of the computer industry to display brilliance in every assignment. That's not what being "gifted" about - even Ansel Adams made more average-level work than masterpieces.
Apple held an event in it's 'Cafeteria(*)' fer chrissakes!
When they pull out the stops, it isn't in an event of this level.
Overpriced leather case aside, the stuff they rolled out was worth holding a minor event over...That's what this was, a minor event.
*=yeah, it wasn't the Cafeteria, but it was held in a location they already own, it's cheap floorspace to hold an announcement.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
I read the article (really, I did!) and it mostly talked about the new remote and how cool a 6 button remote is.
Kind of neat, but what about channels with 7 8 9 and 0?
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But not for us "normies." For the first time I'm really looking at Apple products. It's like I want them all. I don't own a single Apple product, and yet I spend forever on their store.
I'm thinking about taking out my school loans just to buy something cool. I think both the Mac mini and the iPod Hi-Fi are totally sweet.
Maybe I missed something, but how does this go about explaining how they were over-hyped?
He explains why the 6 button remote is a great idea.
The article clearly says:
For the purpose of this essay, let's forget about whether Apple failed to live up to its own PR. In fact, let's ignore the PR strategy altogether and focus on one of the product announcements: the new Mac Minis.
(Score:-1, Offtopic)
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It's my belief that if Apple TRULY wanted market share, they'd follow Microsoft's lead on the Xbox and sell it at a loss but then make it up in other ways. If they sold the Mac Mini for $299 or even $349, they'd sell millions overnight, still make money on dot-Mac, iWork, keyboards, iTunes songs, iPods, etc. And they'd get a hugely larger share of the market. Then, when mom and dad send junior off to college, give him the mini and buy an iMac for at home, or buy junior an iBook, etc.
If these products were overhyped I believe it's more the media than Apple's fault.
But as for the actual products the Mini needs one specific upgrade to be great option for living room multimedia: a faster hard disk. At 5400 rpm they'll be slow at recording. But then PVR functionality doesn't seem to be in Apple's interest. They want us to download video through iTunes. But the Mini should have a faster HD to be ready to handle PVR functionality that others will program for or Apple will add later to stay competitive.
Developers: We can use your help.
I for one am happy with the new Mac Mini announcement, and they can overhype it as much as they want (in fact the more, the better). Personally I plan to pick up a (now significantly cheaper) PowerPC Mac Mini for media center purposes. The previous processor is more than powerful enough to be a MythTV frontend.
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
I usually pay pretty close attention to the products Apple introduces, and I have to say that I nearly missed the most recent introduction entirely. I may have been a bit inattentive, but when there's a really big announcement coming from Apple, everybody knows about it. For one thing, Apple generally introduces important products at major events, such as MacWorld or WWDC. This time, though, they just invited a bunch of reporters to show up and see their new products.
Overhyped? More like hardly hyped at all.
Most of the article discusses the 6-button, super simple, fly in the face of 70's & 80's 75 button receiver, remote control design.
I like the idea of a simple remote, with a straightforward on-screen interface.
Then again, the Tivo remore has more than 6 buttons, and it's actually a very good design (except that the recall button is the lower right most button...but that's another story.) I guess it's more about the Tivo menu design, and you're essentially using the directional button on the Tivo most of the time anyway...
Isn't Tivo, with applications running remotely on your PC, pretty much what these "macMini living room things" are shootin for anyway...?
How can these be overhyped? If anything, they are underhyped.
I used to work for a consumer electronics manufacturer in product design. I learned several things about remote controls. The thing that I learned that is relevant to this conversation is that there is a "regional trend" on how remote controls are designed.
In the European market things like design and elegance and simplicity are percieved to be important. Therefore a "good" remote control for the european market has very few buttons.
In the US, a remote control with a button for every feature and not as much software menus/interactions is more normal.
In Japan/Asia/Pacific, a remote control is considered to be "macho" if it has lots and lots of buttons. The more buttons, the better. A "lady's" remote control will be a little bit smaller and have a few less buttons. According to the folks who I learned this from, the average family would have a remote for the man of the house and a smaller lady's remote.
In the US, there would just be one remote and no one would think of it as a "macho" thing to have more buttons.
With regards to the Front Row remote, Steve Jobs (as usual) takes his queus from european sophisticates on his notions of design, simplicity, etc.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I got to this one late and was also surprised that the headline had nothing to do with the actual article, which was, to hype the crap out of a stupid remote control and give worthless opinions about other manufacturers remotes. I want my 5 minutes back.
Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
Apple didn't use the word 'innovative'. In fact the only adjective on the press invitations was 'fun'.
This is why Apple is moving to 'stealth' product updates instead of waiting for Macworld or WWDC. Maybe eventually they won't be the only company in the world whose stock drops when it releases new products.
When you are simply downloading media from ITMS (and other sources), what use do you have for "channels".
Apple is bypassing the whole legacy model of Broadcast that is so ingraned, even technical people think we need "channels" instead of browsing for video content like we browse the web. Do you visit a web page on channel 8, then browse it for 30 minutes only to have it suddenly vanish?
The Mac MINI is primarily a home media center, not a PVR (though you can use it as such).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Wow, the summary seems to conflict entirely with the second paragraph of the essay/article:
For the purpose of this essay, let's forget about whether Apple failed to live up to its own PR. In fact, let's ignore the PR strategy altogether and focus on one of the product announcements: the new Mac Minis. There are a couple interesting features that (while not necessarily spin worthy) may provide a glimpse into how Apple is planning to approach the digital living room.
Oh well. Anyway, the event was clearly entirely overhyped by the Apple blogs, rumorsites, etc. They took a small, private low-key invitation for fun-new products as an excuse to foam at the mouth and encourage their readers to do the same. "Send us in pictures of what you think the new iPod video will look like! Will Apple make a new snowblower? What do you think? What's going to happen? Oh geez we're so excited!"
Was I blown away with Apple's announcement on Tuesday? No. Was I given any reason to expect some mind blowing new products? Not from Apple. The Apple sites complaining about Tuesday's announcement have themselves to blame.
I'm sorry but adding a remote to a ipod is rather stupid. If anything Apple should have done is build in wi-fi directly to the ipod and their speaker box that way you can play your ipod and use IT as the remote. I mean the ipod as a remote is perfect, its got the nice interface, the jog dial, everything that a remote should have so why place it way accross the room and have a frick'n remote with 6 buttons. If your going to set up your ipod to just "play" likley you'll be playing from a set play list or just put it on shuffle. Other than an instance where you might want to mute the "boom box" there is no need for a frick'n remote if they'd done it properly.
sheesh.
i'm sure i'm upsetting all the zellots/fanboys.
The iPod Hi-fi is nothing new. Now if they had included a CD player, and perhaps a handle to carry it with, and made it in space age silver, Now that would be cool. I'm guessing that such a product would be extremely popular with urban dwellers/street artists.
Er, the remote is for the Mini, d!psh!t.
I thought I was I going stupid there for a moment. I read the article and it had nothing with the slashdot title. If anything, it seem to praise Apple. But I realized from post, it wasn't I going stupid- it was Zonk. Zonk, you need to buck up man and pay attention!!!
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Their success becomes their own enemey? Isn't that called motivation? That's just how marketing works... there's always a rush, and then things slow down. I don't see how this is news. Creativity keeps you alive in this market.
Apple screwed the pooch on the iPod Hi-Fi. Sure, it looks all sleek and such, but it's priced WAY too high. $349 will get you a "home theater in a box" that will sound quite a bit better and give you a ton more flexibility, not to mention the ever-elusive AM/FM radio (not that people listen to it anyway).
Just as people who dissed the iPod mini not realizing that it was going after the flash player market, you miss the market Apple is going after with the iPod HiFi - the people that are buying other things just like it, such as the Altc Lansing iPod stereo.
The thing is, most of these devices don't really sound that great. If you just want a simple stereo for a room and not a whole audio system in a box, the iPod stereo is a device that will probably sound pretty good and work well for a customer that wants a little higher level of playback quality.
That said, I probably would not buy one as I'd either buy an Airport Express for a room or use headphones everywhere else. But it doesn't mean it's not a good product that will sell well.
It's my belief that if Apple TRULY wanted market share, they'd follow Microsoft's lead on the Xbox and sell it at a loss but then make it up in other ways. If they sold the Mac Mini for $299 or even $349, they'd sell millions overnight, still make money on dot-Mac, iWork, keyboards, iTunes songs, iPods, etc. And they'd get a hugely larger share of the market.
Isn't it better to capture 80-90% percent of the market while ALSO making a ton of money instead of a loss?
I mean if market share ever started to become even a small concern of Apple they could possibly follow your instructions, but honestly with people beating a path to thier door to buy them at current prices they would have to be insane to take a loss to grab market share they already own.
You must have played a really bad game of Lemonaide STand when you were a kid. "Sure the lemos and sugar cost $0.10 a glass, but I'll sell them for $0.05 on this 90 degree summer day and make it up in volume!"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I was eagerly waiting for the new Mac Mini.
I WANTED a Mac Mini.
My brother (unfortunately) purchased a G4 laptop 3 weeks before they released the Macbook pro, so I was in no hurry to by the Mini until they released it with the new chip.
I was expecting the same low price with a better processor.....like everything else tech.
Then I see the actual price....and it costs far more than the original and for what? A new chip? A puny hard drive? Not alot of memory? No DVD writer?
Apple......you can stick it.
I'm still working on a clever footer.
When are people going to see that Apple is just another company. They might have come up with the Ipod, but like any other company, a lot of their product designs are going to be cannon fodder. Even Microsoft has had product lines that fell flat on their faces.
For those of you looking for Apple to solve the world's problems, remember, they are a company. They have an image, which is "look at me I'm the slick design innovator guy." They have a following based largely in pretty little things, and while pretty little things are nice to look at, they don't always make for the best products.
Of course you were expecting something earth shattering and you got the same old plus a hundred dollar case pitch. Apple is trying to do what all companies do, exploit their own product with mediocre accessories and pretend like they are the solution to global hunger. Anyone who throws their stereo away for the Ipod Hifi is a complete moron.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Yes, they are already in the Apple Stores.
As I said elsewhere, they sound a lot like the compact Bose offerings.
In other words: Fancy use of fake imaging, exaggerated bass boost with no real bottom end, and overall unsettlingly nothing like true high fidelity.
In other words, it's designed with the intention to dazzle the casual observer long enough to run their credit card through the register, not to faithfully reproduce music.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Did anyone else spend half the article trying to guess what CE stands for?
(I came to the conclusion, eventually, that it is Consumer Electronics - am I right?)
there are already multiple stand-alone speaker systems for the ipod from Bose, JBL, and others, and the Intel Mac mini is simply a retool of the same offering on a faster chip.
these 2 products are more evolutionary than REVolutionary, and hardly deserves the fanfare of a separate launch party hosted by Jobs himself
maybe a true video ipod does, but these 2 products yielded a big YAWN in my mind when i saw the live blogs
There wasn't any hype. "Come and see some fun new products" was all they said. How exactly could they have played it any less? "We've some new stuff, it's pretty crappy, but someone might want it I suppose."
And they could have hyped this. Look, they announced the switch to Intel last year and said they'd have Intel Macs in June this year. It's March, and already they have a mid-range desktop, high-end notebook, and two low-end desktop machines out.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
And secondly, what hype? I don't remember seeing ads everywhere advertising these new products. I surf tech web sites. I read news on Slashdot. I heard a rumour that Apple were going to make an announcement and was curious - but that's it. But I don't remember any hype coming from Apple.
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This just in!
Everything Apple does is over-hyped. Wake up and smell the same old bullshit with a small hard drive and cpu upgrade.
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Who?
Where? I see a Firewire and a DVI port, no composite, S-Video, 75ohm coax, or component video you'd expect for the term "dedicated TV output". Indeed, from the specifications:
So Apple makes a scan converter, which could probably be used with any of their machines. It still doesn't make the DVI port a "dedicated TV output".
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Well, from what I've read from the people that have taken the new Intel Mini apart it doesn't sound like there's room for an add-on graphics chip. So Apple would probably have to change the form factor in order to add a better graphics chip.
It's kind of ironic though. One of Apple's selling points (Google Cache) for the PPC Mini was that it didn't have an integrated graphics card:
Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC. Most say they're good for 2D games only. That's because an "integrated Intel graphics" chip steals power from the CPU and siphons off memory from system-level RAM. You'd have to buy an extra card to get the graphics performance of Mac mini, and some cheaper PCs don't even have an open slot to let you add one. [emphasis mine]
Oh well, a bit of a step backwards on the graphics front. But a bunch of Core Duo Minis would make a great, inexpensive Xcode build farm.
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Slashdot has gotten just plain idiotic. Next story up: Sky is blue.
that's enough for me.
A disappointing, low-key announcement. Now watch the following happen:
1. Next announcement will be one heck of a blockbuster announcement. Like iPod Video, Mac Pro and totally redesigned Intel iBook in one shot.
2. They'll slash the price on the minis by a hundred bucks a couple of months down the road. Crowds of Mac fanatics will bust the doors down if it's just $100 less.
3. They'll re-price their boombox at $299.
This is meant to be a simple and elegant home audio device. If you want some grotty lo-fi portable with radio and CD player and "UberGigaBass!" (read: cheap, dsitortive filters) where the sum is far less than the parts, look elsewhere.
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It's only overhyped if noone buys it.
From the atricle:
"Don't worry if you found the introduction of the iPod Hi-Fi a little disappointing, Apple had other stuff for you to buy err, love. The new iPod case may be the most overlooked part of the media fest. iPod lovers everywhere can now cradle their smallish digital audio player in a sleeve of "fine Italian leather." Perhaps the leather isn't as supple as the rich Corinthian leather used in Chryslers or perhaps it is a little more tactilely enchanting. It doesn't matter, as long as it is a step above the course rawhide leather used by summer camps across the country everyone should be satisfied. And let's be honest at this point: Where else are you going to get a more functional case than the one Apple just introduced? It isn't as if other case makers have come up with way to actually control your iPod while it stays in the case. That would be impossible. Kudos Apple, you'll beat that reputation of making overpriced, style before function, products in no time with the introduction of an iPod sleeve with a ribbon. Pure Brilliance!"
Pretty scathing review of the event if you ask me.
has anyone noticed that apple is still selling 128 kbps constant bitrate files as if they were authoritative? i love the practicality of lossy encodings, but (a) variable bitrates are hugely more effective for a given filesize and (b) 128 kbps is not enough information in any encoding for high-fidelity reproduction. apple and bose, et al, are propagating the idea that plugging an iPod with such tunes into a stereo docking station will yield good sound. you don't have to be an audiophile or know anything about the amplifier circuitry or speakers involved to disagree with their premise.
Apple products over-hyped? Never.
On the other hand, he does seem to think that it's a big deal that the new Minis come without keyboards. It's supposed to mean that they meant to be media centers rather than computers. Except haven't Minis always come without keyboards? Their big selling point is that they work with all the peripherals you already bought for your PC.
I usually avoid these hypes. I just wait until I see the products myself. That's true for movies, TV shows, games, places, etc.
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HiFi-Wifi: Throw in an airtunes receiver and this would be worth $350 and I know I'd put a couple of them around the house.
I think the gathering was hyped appropriately, but maybe Steve had other plans that were held up. Probably a movie download or video ipod announcement that got canned due to bickering with studios over a subscription/non-subscription model.
So we all know that poster and submitter didn't apparently read past the first 2 or 3 paragraphs of the article.
The article is mostly praise for Apple's view of the future and reminds me of a discussion I had with a freind of mine about the Apple remote when it first came out.
My take was that simplicity and easy to use will appeal to more people than shear number of buttons and number of button presses to reach a fuction. The goal of a remote control is not to "shock and awe" the consumer into being afraid to use the product. He argued for quickness to access functions, I argued for ease of use.
I was recently at the gym and wanted to watch something other than a review of the day's golfing news. I picked up the remote and pressed buttons that I assumed would change the channel up. After hitting that one button the only thing I could watch was childrens programming on the local PBS station. I could bring up useless menus also, but in 3 minutes could not figure out how to change a channel. Some companies just DON'T get user interfaces. Apple groks user interfaces!!
Think Deeply.
this whole thing is a pr stunt against apple, consciously concocted and served fresh here.
If you really need a faster disc (which actually you do not), you can always hook up a 7200 RPM external firewire drive.
On current mini's that provides a good boost in disc performance.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
See, I was getting this big geek boner right, then, as I scrolled through the tech specs, I saw something that made me go limp:
Intel GMA950 Integrated Video.
That is like geek cock block.
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Which for the low-fi input device being used...an iPod...is about perfect.
I wrote a paper in college on how to purchase and install a high fidelity audio system (this was 1982) for Technical Writing. Got an A on the paper, but the comment by the professor was telling; "Does all this stuff really make a difference?"
Most people have no idea what music really sounds like. They actually think an MP3 player sounds good! They don't hear compression artifacts or that it's lifeless crap coming out of tiny transducers that can't hope to reproduce anything decent sounding.
My wife still thinks I'm nuts because I re-EQ the home theatre system every time we re-arrange the furniture.
The point is that the iPod Speaker is exactly perfect for the target audience....iPod / MP3 player owners. It isn't being marketed to audiophiles as a primary buyer...or doesn't seem so.
Of course, it doesn't state (truthfully) that it allows the user to fill the room with the sound of mangled music, but I can't fault them for that.
Yes, I own a Shuffle. For mowing the lawn. The sound of the machinery offsets the dreadful quality. I looped out an input into my primary Denon AVR for the iPod but couldn't stand the sound coming out of the B&W's.
Everything has a purpose...even the iPod Speaker.
I am my own gestalt.
there are already multiple stand-alone speaker systems for the ipod from Bose, JBL, and others
Have you listened to any of them?
I sepnt some time in an Apple store comparing them (not even to buy, just curious) and frankly all of them soundly really weak. Yet people buy them.
If the Apple unit produces much better sound then the extra cost may well be worth it for the same people that are buying these things already (I must admit I am not quite sure who they are, though I suppose they'd be nice for a sewing room or shop or something).
and the Intel Mac mini is simply a retool of the same offering on a faster chip.
Sort of true but it also offers improved graphics support for video (even with the dreaded integrated Intel video chip), and standard bluetooth/wireless. These are really important features so that third party makers of things like bluetooth or IP remotes know that there will be a substantial market for such if enough minis are sold.
these 2 products are more evolutionary than REVolutionary, and hardly deserves the fanfare of a separate launch party hosted by Jobs himself
I agree they are more evolutionary, though in the case of the mini it jumps from a device that is not really usable as an HTPC for a number of reasons to a device that is actually well suited to the task - that is something more of a jump than a basic evolutionary step. It's like going from cro-magnon to wall street stock broker, I was pretty happy as I thought it would take more models to really add HTPC support.
And it was not a party but a press briefing! He came on stage, announced the two items, and took off. Actually the mini alone probably deserved a little more fanfare than that but they wanted to keep it low key I iamgine until other products that tie into it (like HD video on ITMS) are released.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Sound begins at 53Hz, and ends at 16 Hz.
2. What cannot be reproduced on three inch speakers is monophonic.
3. Surround sound does not exist.
I think that a feature that would have made the HiFi really worthwhile is to build in an airport express with aritunes into the unit. Imagine being able to stream music straight to the HiFi or use it with the ipod. This would be great for my home since all my music is stored in itunes. I could throw the HiFi into the kitchen and use it as a remote speaker. Plus it would extentd the wireless network. Only wire would be power. This is a product I would love to see.
Maybe a conspiracy against MSDN's Channel 9 ...
Even that is "Channel 9" (as you typed), not just "9".
We don't browse by IP, I fail to see why the long term method of finding video does not use text I can read instead of arbitrary numbers with meaning mapped by temporality alone.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
i was talking about the hi-fi speakers ass.....it comes with a remote! I could give a rats ass about an overpriced piece of hardware. When i said "add a remote to the ipod" is essentially what they did with the hi-fi product.
"Use the included Apple Remote to control music playback from anywhere in the room."
so your the dipshit.
Intel GMA950 Integrated Video.
Now the tyrrany of Intel Integrated Video invades the Mac world too. *shudder*
Ironic considering Apple used the dedicated video RAM on the PPC Mini as a selling point...
I think they'll do OK on the boom box because it is Apple-branded. But I don't think it will be a huge seller; Apple is really a bit late moving into this market. Many other manufacturers have iPod dock/speaker combos out now, some pretty good. Apple really should have released this thing a year ago.
I don't read much hype about those products. They're pretty much what you expect from apple at the price.
All the talk is distracting from objective observations.
I've read a very balanced test from the hifi on ipodlaunge that was 100% more helpful than all the bitching and whining elsewhere, all based on perception.
See, apple indeed does marketing. That may be vexing to some. But just stating opinions isn't somehow more worthy than that.
btw, the article doesn't say what the post suggests.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Hey, I'm Apple fanboi #1, but in regard to the remote...
Take your media center remote or you CE remote and a screwdriver. You can remove all but six of those buttons. It won't make anything any better. In fact you'll lose functionality. For example you'll lose the ability to change channels...just like the FrontRow remote!
The standard of comparison should be based of features and functionality. FrontRow does not a complete media system make. It's still really friggin' great, but only for what it does.
I would ***HATE*** to use the FrontRow remote to control my entire home theater system. That would make things far more complex than having a remote that is better suited for a complex job.
The Mac Mini has never come with a mouse or a keyboard anyways.
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
this article links to an article that's claimed to diss the new "over-hyped" mac/ipod. but the linked article does nothing of the kind. apparently, being able to read and accurately summarize an article need not be a requirement for successful submission to slashdot. prats!
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If you buy a computer because you're impressed that it has custom chips and whatnot inside -- instead of because of what it's able to DO for you -- you have way more money than brains. I love Macs (and have both a PowerBook and an iMac), but I couldn't care less what's inside the box. Who cares whether the processor comes from IBM or Intel? Do you also care whether the hard drive is Western Digital or Seagate? Who built the power supply? Who made the wires that connect the components? Who the heck cares? The user experience is what matters. If it does what you want, great. If not, find another tool. If you just want to obsess about the technology inside, study it to your heart's content, but don't pretend that it matters when you buy a tool to get work done with.
David
In other words, it's designed with the intention to dazzle the casual observer long enough to run their credit card through the register, not to faithfully reproduce music.
Yes, Apple shouldn't have tried to make it look like a high-end stereo system--they should have designed it to look like a boom box.
Oh wait--they did.
"Hype" is short for "hyperbole," and thus already implies an exaggeration or embellishment. It is redundant for something to be "over-hyped." Might as well say "frigidly cold" or "homeland security."
There are non-Apple products that do what you want -- check the Roku WiFi Radio at http://www.rokulabs.com/
Most people want to play games at home...
;)
/F
Maybe most people YOU know. "Most" people actually DON'T play games.
I can only think of one person I know who plays games, my next door neighbor. I mentally went through about 50 other people I know, not one of them plays games. Not even the college students I know (like my kids & their friends. Yes, I'm an old fogey). Heck, I remember the day when a "color display" meant you'd had an accident with a crayon
If you think about it, you and I both only know a tiny percentage of the total population. It's a natural tendency to assume that your or my tiny slice of life is representative of the whole world, but usually it's not even close. (I'm thankful for that quite often actually...) Anyhow it's difficult to make accurate projections of this sort.
I suspect this is a lot like bicycling - road racers and off-road mountain-bikers drive the technologies, but only a few percent race or ride their MTBs offroad.
It's great though that gaming has helped drive the technology behind video cards, we all benefit from it.
The bottom line, though, is that you're correct, this isn't the ultimate gaming machine. But there are MILLIONs of people out there for whom it is very well suited. I plan to buy one in the not too distant future. I have a 1.42GHz PPC Mini now. Why do I like it? More than anything... it's QUIET. But that Core Duo is attractive...
Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
The Front Row remote is really an awful design, and no amount of justification will change that fact.
If Apple ever wants to add TV to Front Row, the remote will need number buttons, fast forward/rewind buttons (not "next/previous"), a clear and an enter key (to go with the number buttons), a mute button, a record button, dedicated volume and page buttons (unless you like paging through the guide one line at a time), channel buttons, a power button for the TV, and probably a button to bring up the guide.
Overloading the menu navigation keys with functions is generally a very bad idea. How do you pause TV while you're in the menu system? Can you change the channel? Mute? Change the volume level?
Microsoft's Media Center remote is well laid-out, the buttons are grouped appropriately and they all have unique shapes. The TiVo remote is similar.
70 buttons is absurd, but so is 6.
I plug my iPod, laptop, whatever, into the aux in on my stereo. A mini-jack to RCA cable costs about $10 or $15 and works great. If I needed to charge my iPod while playing I suppose I could move an extra powered USB hub next to my stereo also. It may not look as cool, but it saves me $300 and probably (definitely) sounds better anyway.
Wake up people! Slashdot (hereafter referred to as Splash-Plop) is utter rubbish. Abandon it!
If the regular posting of incoherent babble such as the original article doesn't cause you to abandon Splash-Plop, then I don't know what will.
Half of the summary articles on Splash-plop reference two week old articles from standard media outlets. The other half mis-represent the article, and appear to be written by twelve year-olds with learning disabilities.
Then there's the moderators (ugh). Spotty nerds who live with their parents, modding up anything with an extreme leftist slant, irrespective of its relevance. "Man, the government, is like, so evil, they totally want to take away all our freedoms. It's really killin' my buzz.".
I know that this will get modded down to -1, but I don't care. If anyone reads this, please post a similar article to Splash Plop for every summary article that is junk, which is half of them. After you get bored (should take about 5 minutes), delete Splash-Plop from your favourites, and frequent another tech site that actually has decent articles, and motivated, semi-competent writers.
Harrumph!
Which for the low-fi input device being used...an iPod...is about perfect.
Yes, but there are a whole lot of speaker systems that can output iPod-grade sound that don't cost $350.
Some people get too caught up in their own world. Just because everybody is talking about the Mac Mini on the few Apple fansites that the submitter visits daily doesn't mean that it has reached anybody else's collective conciousness. Aside from a mention on Slashdot, I haven't heard much of anything of the Mac Mini, and I certainly know next to nothing about the Ipod Hi-Fi that the submitter refers to.
The submitter talks about "over-hype", I say what hype?
I'm not saying that the Hi-Fi isn't an aesthetically pleasing and lovely sounding little box.. but to claim that it can replicate the depth, quality, and shear power of a true audiophile's home stereo seems to me to be false advertising. Frankly, I seriously doubt it could even compete with my computer speakers.
/dev/random
News at 11!
Yes, Apple shouldn't have tried to make it look like a high-end stereo system--they should have designed it to look like a boom box.
Oh wait--they did.
It's called "iPod Hi-Fi". It costs $350, and it sounds worse than a $50 set of pioneer speakers. They should've designed it to look like a pile of shit.
How the **** do Apple get away with selling a desktop computer with a 5400rpm hard drive and have everyone believe it's cool/innovative? Beats me.
Careless editors, lack of breadth in coverage, single-sided bias. That's my opinion folks - and internet traffic is voting too.
So, why do you keep coming back and posting?
Rather long winded too.
Have you listened to one yet? Have you *seen* one yet? The three drivers inside the Hi-Fi don't appear to be the paper-cone Bose style drivers. This isn't a multi-hyper-extended chamber design, like the Bose. It's simple, it's elegant, and it sounds *really* good.
Go listen to one. Go *look* at one, before you judge it.
The Apple iPod isn't all that low-fi. It doesn't compare to a great CD player or vinyl player, but it is not all that bad. Using hi-fi headphones with the iPod works quite well, so why not use hi-fi speakers?
According to Stereophile, one Ipod compared quite favorably to CD players when using lossless compression. http://www.stereophile.com/digitalsourcereviews/93 4/
Hi-Fi for most people just means "sound system". You see $30 boom-boxes advertised as "portable hi-fi systems". Hi-Fi is just the modern term for "boom box". Whether this is technically accurate or not doesn't matter, as it is popular usage.
Apple hold events like this like 10 times a year, are they really required to announce innovative products each and everytime?
stupid people hype themselve up for it, and now they blame apple for not giving them what they dreamt up??
stupid.
I want to hook my computer to my TV with the Firewire port. Where are the virtual monitor drivers to digitize the desktop into a DV stream to do that?
I think we'll register that as a valid complaint around the time you find a TV at Best Buy that takes firewire in.
Your request is kind of totally insane anyway when you consider that what you want to do is pretty much what DVI (and HDMI) is.
Lastly, to get sound to the TV is certainly no harder than, say, a VCR... and you have a few options (like digital or analog output for sound).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The mini doesn't need to be a big seller, it must be a reason to enter a store and then you go for the imac anyway...
I think, therefore I am...I think.
If you want to read a story that does actually question whether the Apple launch was overhyped, check this bitter attack on the Apple launch by CNET, which claims that, "Jobs' announcement of a new leather case for the iPod was especially ridiculous. Like the queen announcing a new toaster in Buckingham Palace."
Doubleplusungood! Hurry, mods--you know what to do!
The specs even show that it tops out at 16kHz. Pretty awful.
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
Which for the low-fi input device being used...an iPod...is about perfect.
The iPod plays uncompressed or lossless-compressed audio which sounds just as good (and in some cases, far better) than just about any CD player on the market. WTF are you talking about?
If you are going to listen to AAC or MP3 files, you might as well use a MUCH cheaper room system than the "iPod Hi-Fi"
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Have you listened to one yet? Have you *seen* one yet? The three drivers inside the Hi-Fi don't appear to be the paper-cone Bose style drivers. This isn't a multi-hyper-extended chamber design, like the Bose.
This is exactly what critics of it have been saying about it: It's just like a Bose.
To an actual "hi-fi" enthusiast, that's the same thing as saying "it's an overpriced chunk of shit."
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Well, to be fair, that's the +/- 3 db rating, which isn't all that far off from a lot of other low-end systems out there. It's not like it clips over everything above 16KHz.
(Although AAC pretty much does exactly that, IIRC, so people listening to stuff downloaded from iTMS probably won't miss out on a thing by using this system.)
My beef with it is that it doesn't know if it wants to be a high-quality living room system or a portable boom box to throw in the back of your truck... and because of that it fails to be either.
The audio performance isn't really good enough for extended indoor listening, and the price and design of it make it very ill-suited to bring along to the places you would normally bring a portable system to.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
[ The iPod plays uncompressed or lossless-compressed audio which sounds just as good (and in some cases, far better) than just about any CD player on the market. WTF are you talking about?
:o)
If you are going to listen to AAC or MP3 files, you might as well use a MUCH cheaper room system than the "iPod Hi-Fi" ]
Portable CD player, I would agree. My Denon 5910 or my Sony ES-555? Coming out of B&W DM's? No freakin' way.
Really good equipment does make the difference. It's a matter of target audience.
That was my point. If you want to hear most or all of what the studio engineers laid down, an iPod...any of them...won't do that. Fact, not opinion. I've been on both sides of the glass in recording studios for 35 years so I think I know whereof I speak!
I am my own gestalt.
I'm looking to buy one. They do exist (mostly Mitsubishis and Sonys).
Besides, there has to be something to justify mandating that cable boxes be offered with Firewire outputs.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I'm soooo sick of hearing people bitch and moan about the iPod HiFi speakers. how many of you people commenting on them have actually heard them?
Don't you think its a bit disingenuous to comment on speakers that you've never actually listened to?
I have, and I'll say this: They blow away the similarly sized and more expensive Bose iPod speaker set up, by leaps and bounds. Not too bassy, not too trebely, a nice, natural, well-balanced sound that can get loud as hell w/out distorting or rattling the case.
They're probably THE MOST faithful reproduction of the sound I've ever seen in an iPod-centric speaker, bar none.
My suggestion: Stop armchair directing and go out and listen to them before you form a completely uninformed opinion.
Hah. That just shows you haven't been looking. I have been. The Mitsubishi WD-62627 62" HDTV listed at BestBuy.com has IEEE 1394. So does the Sony KD34XBR960 34" HDTV which is the one I'm leaning towards (I prefer CRTs for their black level). There are more, But I don't even know if they support unencrypted HD content on that input; I wish the people who review HDTVs would include that information as it is a must-have feature for me.
I misunderstood your need (especially along the machinima lines) - but the thing is wouldn't those TV's with Firewire inputs (and you're right, I had not been looking) only support DV input (as from camcorders) with a maximum resolution of 720x480? I honestly do not know what transports newer HD camcorders are using for output but I thought the higher-end ones were firewire 800 only.
DVI and HDMI seem designed to prevent the very uses I want to exercise with Firewire. It seems no one is interested in allowing anyone to send any content over HDMI without using HDCP, so forget about PC-to-PC video transfers over HDMI.
HDMI does but I don't think DVI is that closed off - though you can lock it down with HDCP, I don't think the Mini does so you could probably capture that video elsewhere if you wished. However I agree that many more devices exist to support working with capturing video over firewire feeds, instead of raw DVI streams.
I use Final Cut Studio and I want to experiment with HD content. I want be able to preview what my HD projects look like on a real HDTV without having to install more hardware in the Mac (no such options for the MacBooks, iMacs, and Mac Minis). I have yet to find a Firewire DV bridge that will display HD content over component video.
But the Mac MINI can hook directly to any modern HDTV via a DVI to HDMI adaptor (or just straight-up DVI with a lot of things), and has the oomph to support 1080i video displays, possibly 1080p (max res is 1900x1200). That in combination witth the gigabit ethernet it now supports seem to make it pretty well suited to what you want to do, as a remote node that can hook into an HD display and get video feeds from a more powerful compuer to display. Indeed, I too have some HD video interests and plan to use it for exaclty that.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... People are already buying iPod HiFi systems - Bose, Altec Lansing, etc. Apple wants in on that. They know they can charge a premium for their system, and they're gonna do it ...
... excuse me, the standard marketing practice of walking consumers down the price curve. In other words get them to pay the max amount they are willing too. When those willing to pay $350 are taken care of we'll see a $300 model, then a $250, ...
I was just at an Apple Store with a buddy who did buy one of those. $100, with an integrated radio. $350 for the Apple model is not a premium, it's more like gouging the early adopters, err
If you are going to listen to AAC or MP3 files, you might as well use a MUCH cheaper room system than the "iPod Hi-Fi" ]
Portable CD player, I would agree. My Denon 5910 or my Sony ES-555? Coming out of B&W DM's? No freakin' way.
An iPod playing lossless or uncompressed files into your amp and out your B&Ws (great speakers, btw!), will sound every bit as good as some of the top-of-the-line analog-out CD players, including your treasured Denon. Several leading audio magazines have written reviews (and double-blind tests) which confirm this.
Apple lossless sounds good enough that I no longer even have a CD player hooked up to my main audio system.
By the way, Rotel made a $300 unit which did just as well as the Sony ES-555, and several other players have come out in even lower price ranges which compare favorably. The 1980s are over, and the difference between a $100 CD player and a $1500 CD player just ain't what it used to me. The only people who think they hear a difference between a good cheap one and the top of the line are the same people who were coloring in the inside circle of their CD's with green markers and buying all their speaker wire from Monster. If that's you, I apologize. I have some vibration-dampening feet for your Denon which I would like to sell you for a mere $450 (each).
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
[ An iPod playing lossless or uncompressed files into your amp and out your B&Ws (great speakers, btw!), will sound every bit as good as some of the top-of-the-line analog-out CD players, including your treasured Denon. Several leading audio magazines have written reviews (and double-blind tests) which confirm this. ]
:o)
For most people, again I would agree. That does not hold true for yours truly. I've been a musician for 40 years and done a ton of session work as well as my own stuff. I have perfect pitch and virtually all of my hearing intact. I worked as an studio engineer for several years and I'm a fairly good equipment designer.
My house is literally built around my audio/video system. And no, I don't care for Monster Cables. I buy Belden cable on spools and build my own cables. The one Monster Cable I bought was for my Fender Jazz bass and it's in the trash box. I use Planet Waves with the cut-out switches since I change guitars frequently during a set.
The only "dampers" I use is another home-built item for my subwoofers and that was to offset some harmonics from a nearby floor-to-ceiling bookcase at around 50Hz.
Basically, I can hear subtle to sometimes dramatic differences depending on the input source device. Now, in agreement with your point, the VAST majority of people cannot indeed, hear the difference. They also buy cardboard speakers at Wal-Mart...I don't.
And that was my original point...the iPod Speaker is probably OK for most people with iPods...who rip at 128 to 192 and jam tiny earbuds in and listen in blissful ignorance.
I am my own gestalt.
I'm very happy for you in that you seem to think you are the only musician and/or audio engineer and/or audiophile on Slashdot.
Basically, I can hear subtle to sometimes dramatic differences depending on the input source device.
So can I, and I'm telling you that the iPod, when playing uncompressed files, if a VERY good performer. I've owned several respectale CD players in the past which didn't do as well. (Especially since CDs do get wear & dust over time, and the biggest difference between CD players is how well they handle read error correction. D/A Conversion itself is all pretty much based on the same logic these days. Ripping new CD's to an iPod eliminates a great deal of this problem, especially if you do multi-pass rips.)
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
...and you must be running the hunt for Bin Laden as you've missed the points entirely....again.
1) No iPod currently available is good enough for MY listening, not yours or the unwashed masses. I don't care how you listen to music.
2) The iPod Speaker...with its purported shortcomings (I've not heard one yet, but have tested the Bose, Klipsch, Altec, and JBL offerings with the wife's Mini) will probably work for most people. Again, not me.
I'm not "special", just real picky and blessed/cursed with good hearing and trained ears.
I don't know who assigned you to climb on my ass or "educate" me today, so I'll tell you...your shift is over.
I am my own gestalt.
The point which you seem to have forgotten that you made, and the one which I am criticizing you for, is the contention that the iPod itself is a "low fi" device... a contention which seems to be based entirely on hearing lossy compressed audio files played from it.
And as I've tried to get through your thick skull, again and again, this is simply not the case. The iPod, when playing uncompressed or lossless music, performs extremely well against even the best CD players on the market. This is not just my opinion, but the evaluation of many leading audio critics around the world.
As to the two points you claim to be the only ones you are making:
1. You kept repeating your "cretentials" as a golden-ear audiophile as reasoning why your opinion of the iPod must simply more selective than other people, but I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts you've never subjected uncompressed files on an iPod to double-blind testing with your precious Denon and Sony CD players. If you had, I think the results would really surprise you.
2. The iPod Speaker...with its actual shortcomings (I have heard one. It's not much better than the Bose or similar offerings out there) is perfectly fine as a low-fi boom box, but that is not how it's marketed, nor is it how it is priced. People have the right to hear about the evaluations of those of us who have actually listened to the damned thing, and that's all I was offering.
You're the one who jumped on me for daring to suggest that even we lowly iPod listeners might demand something better that this particular gadget.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Mea culpa!
I did, indeed, use the term "low-fi" in describing the iPod.
I have a houseful of them, all the car "stuff" and a cable on my main receiver, as I've said, and I actually have done some "testing" with a Mini and my Shuffle. Not double-blind with Julian Hirsch recording the results, but sufficient for me to prefer a CD THROUGH MY MAIN SYSTEM to the iPods.
Maybe I have dog hearing, but I definitely hear a moderate flattening of the treble and somewhat muddy bass. Now, I don't have the Shure earbuds...just the $40 Apple ones. So this may be the fault of the OUTPUT device, not the input device!
This is FINE for driving, mowing the lawn, and doing the gym thing; I never leave the house without my Shuffle. The ambient noise floor is high enough to mask the effect. The reason I tried both iPods was because I thought perhaps I had a defective unit. In fact, both have been exchanged under warranty, so the test was really 4 units; same results.
In all honesty, none of my family can hear a difference...it's definitely just me, but that's the fact, not an opinion.
I recently bought a Sirius brick for my car and I like it. The Shuffle sounds far better and I switch off depending on mood. A couple of weekends ago, I hooked up the Sirius brick to the main Denon and listened to dozens of stations for several hours. It was pretty atrocious. It sounds like Sirius alters their compression across their programming. Some talk channels sounded like bad Sci-Fi movie actors talking. Still, I only paid $25 after rebate for the thing and for long drives, it beats changing CDs or dorking with the Shuffle. I'll never buy a home kit, that's for sure!
Sorry for the "jumping".....
I am my own gestalt.
We just provided the whole damned Internet a perfect example how how heated things can get between two people who probably agree about most things related to a topic when they use casually-written text as the only means of discussion.
For my own part, I find Apple Lossless rips, either from an iPod or from the TOSLink connection on my Mac, to be a step UP from almost every CD player I've ever owned (and I've gone through quite a few of them.)
(Hmm... and iPod with an optical digital output... now THERE would be something worth calling an "iPod Hi-Fi"!)
However, the slow rise of DVD Audio might change that. While most of what we thought was wrong with CD's back in the 80s was really just the artifacts of poor playback devices, I'm still not 100% happy with CD sound.
I'm no vinyl bigot... most of my audio library is digital... but I have yet to hear a CD match the magic of a pristine Sheffield Labs record. Whatever high-end format finally catches on, I'm hoping it will finally achieve what people once hoped the CD would deliver.
Then again, iTunes will probably just be adapted to rip and play whatever format that turns out to be.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Wow...I couldn't agree more about vinyl!
:o)
While most of my "active" library is digital...I have a home-built SAN for the 1800 CDs in the house...my pride and joy is the electic collection of vinyl I have under lock and key.
I have a dbx decoder still in use in my secondary audio system. I need it because I have some dbx-encoded vinyl like "Teaser and the Firecat". I have a fairly mediocre linear track turntable with an Ortofon cartridge. BUT, I have spare parts for it and an Audio-Technica cartridge squirelled away.
I quit arguing about vinyl versus CD years ago...just not worth the grief!
I played French Horn for decades before discovering bass guitar and sat a season with the local symphony back in the 70's. I have yet to hear a classical CD that could touch some of the pressings I have.
Haven't been enthralled with DVD-Audio or SACD yet...most of what little I've heard sounds "over-engineered" if that makes any sense.
And yes, I think Apple will adapt well to the future; they don't seem to be stupid of recent.
I am my own gestalt.
not a zealot mac love, i was going to defend the microscopic "unix" box. i guess there is no point now. i guess it would just suffice to say that i like the idea of a really small fairly powerful unix box/HD video editor.
I played French Horn for decades
Ooo... Got a good one for you:
Q: How do you make a trombone sound like a french horn?
A: Stick your hand in the bell and play wrong notes.
Zing!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.