iTunes Use Surges Past QuickTime, RealPlayer

QuatermassX writes "Forget increased sales of Mac computers, think media players. The iPod 'halo effect' shows its true power in recently compiled statistics from Nielsen/NetRatings and Apple. From the report on WebSiteOptimization.com: 'Podcasting is taking off and iPods are seemingly ubiquitous. Unique users of Apple's iTunes player should pass RealPlayer by mid-2006 with nearly 30 million users in the US alone. People are tuning in over twice as long with iTunes than with RealPlayer or Windows Media Player. As broadband penetration increases we are spending more time on our computers.'"

Comments

The Halo Effect

[Mattygfunk1]

The iPod 'halo effect'....

I've never heard of the "Halo effect" but apparently it kicks Slashdot's arse

__
Funny Porn videos from Laugh DAILY

Re:The Halo Effect

[edgr]

But take a look at "Halo effect" vs "/. effect"

Re:The Halo Effect

[Seta]

I think it's a reference to the success of the XBox game Halo, and the maddening fanboys that grew up all around it. Though I suppose that could be taken rather negatively.

Re:The Halo Effect

[Bazzalisk]

If that was a joke then I'm sorry.

But if it wasn't a joke I think I'll clarify - the Halo Effect is the effect that the popularity of one thing can cause increased popularity in related things - a halo being an area of light surrounding a light-source.

Re:The Halo Effect

[TrueKonrads]

It should have been "ipod halo effect" vs. "slashdot efect" Fight!

Re:The Halo Effect

[Thrakkerzog]

I had never seen googlefight before. I did a quick test.

It's a good thing!

Re:The Halo Effect

[Seta]

Heh, it was a joke, sorry I didn't make it more obvious. I just figured that the growth rate of the Halo game fanbase would work perfectly when compared to the adoption rate of iTunes. No worries.

Re:The Halo Effect

[ziggamon2.0]

Oh yeah?

Googlefight probably won't be so cocky after a good slashdotting!

Re:The Halo Effect

[prell]

Are you sure "Halo Effect" isn't just the rumored name of Halo 3?

Re:The Halo Effect

[The One and Only]

I thought a halo was an area of light surrounding Jesus Christ's head.

Re:The Halo Effect

[dtfarmer]

Wow, that's amazing!!!! But even better is this: "sex" vs "/. effect". It confirms my suspicions about the relative importance of things around here.

Re:The Halo Effect

[the argonaut]

Amazingly, I get identical results when I do "sex" vs. "effect". I'm pretty certain it's ignoring the "/.".

Re:The Halo Effect

[dtfarmer]

Oh, man. Someday I'll learn when to use my tags, because I'm absolutely certain of it - that was, in fact, the point of my post beyond making fun of local stereotypes.

I wonder...

[Seta]

...if it has anything to do with the fact that everyone and their dog I see these days owns an ipod. Hmm.

Re:I wonder...

[fracex]

I wouldn't rule out the fact either that iTunes has a slick interface that makes organising your music, buying music, podcasting, listening to internet radio and so much more, really easy. Try saying that about RealPlayer.

Re:I wonder...

[Seta]

Quite true, and given the number of iPod users that readily advocate it, the adoption rate is high enough i'm sure. Real...I don't have much to say about Real products. At least nothing that hasn't already been said.

Re:I wonder...

[pubjames]

My dog doesn't have an iPod!

But then, I don't have a dog.

Re:I wonder...

[ScuxxletButt]

That would be the "iPaw'd"

HAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you folks! I'll be here all week. Try the lutefisk!

Re:I wonder...

[GingerDog]

Shit, I hope my dogs don't ask for IPods this next Christmas.

Re:I wonder...

[tdemark]

According to TFA, in January '06, there were 18,568,000 unique users of iTunes. In 2005, Apple sold 32 million iPods.

That's 32 million iPods and 18.5 million iTunes users. What are the other 14 million people using to get music into their iPods? The only way the 18.5 million iTunes users could be true would be if people, on average, bought two iPods for themselves over the course of the year.

- Tony

Re:I wonder...

[prell]

This is our chance to get rid of RealPlayer once and for all! Let's all support this!

Re:I wonder...

[MyNameIsEarl]

It's the next big thing, the iPooch, follwed of course by little sweaters with pockets to hold said iPooch.

Re:I wonder...

[Midnight Thunder]

...if it has anything to do with the fact that everyone and their dog I see these days owns an ipod. Hmm.

True. But, also have you ever tried getting the free version of the RealPlayer? How many wrong turns do you have to make before you can download it?

Re:I wonder...

[Pollardito]

just hang in there, in May they're putting out the iDog Nano to solve both your problems with one check made out to Apple

Re:I wonder...

[sh00z]

That's 32 million iPods and 18.5 million iTunes users. What are the other 14 million people using to get music into their iPods?

There's no requirement to "register" iTunes before you start using it to get songs onto an iPod, so the only way that Apple would identify you as a "unique user" woud be if you signed up to purchase music from the iTunes Music Store (tm). I'd be willing to bet that some of the other 14 million people just haven't bought music from Apple. (But your original statement is still true. I'm one of those folks with two iPods.)

Re:I wonder...

[flosofl]

...they're putting out the iDog Nano...

Must be a slimmer, smaller version of this.

iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[dennism]

Last I checked, QuickTime was a part of the iTunes installation under Windows. I think they meant to say Windows Media.

But, this has certainly done wonders for the adoption of QuickTime under Windows. It's the iTunes Trojan Horse -- get them hooked on a great music player and a great portable music player. As more installations of iTunes are done, more QuickTime installations as well. Suddenly, it becomes easier to convince the big websites (and small too) to put up QuickTime versions of the media. And to top it off, because of the increased usage of QuickTime, us Mac users get a better web experience as well.

Bravo Apple :)

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[mccalli]

Last I checked, QuickTime was a part of the iTunes installation under Windows. I think they meant to say Windows Media.

I think they really meant Quicktime Player, rather than Quicktime per se. Explaining that Quicktime is a framework which comes bundled with one possible player takes some time, and it's a game I gave up playing even here on Slashdot quite a while ago. You know the kind of thing: "Quicktime sucks! It can't play full screen!". Err...yes it can, you mean that particular player doesn't use that capability.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[Gorath99]

The QuickTime Player does come bundled with the Windows version of iTunes though. Quite annoying, if you ask me. It's come to the point that I don't update iTunes anymore because for every bloody minor version I have to download yet another version of the QuickTime Player (that I didn't ask for) only to have it throw its icons around my start menu and completely ignore my preferences by showing up in the system tray.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[DRM_is_Stupid]

Another confusing thing about the article is what they mean by "unique users" when they say "iTunes has eclipsed QuickTime in unique users."

It's impossible for the iTunes installation base to exceed the QuickTime Player installation base, since iTunes doesn't function without QuickTime Player installed.

I can believe that the iTunes frontend would be used more frequently than the QuickTime Player frontend (especially since QTP doesn't support fullscreen), but I'm not sure what that has to do with the number of "unique users." Also, what about players that don't report back "anonymous usage statistics." How could one know the usage levels of MPlayer, VLC, and Media Player Classic (CCCP)?

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[Francisco_G]

I know something you can do directly: buy a Mac and help them gain marketshare! That's your best bet for watching .mov on your cell.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[ioErr]

Apple will always look bad in my eyes as long as they seek to lock people in via proprietry formats that they strictly enforce to prevent competition.

QuickTime uses an open format.

Why do I need a separate media players just for *.mov files?

Because the maker of your main player has chosen not to support the QuickTime format.

Why can't I play *.mov files on my mobile

Ditto.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[spooje]

I understand you didn't ask for it, but without QuickTime you can't have iTunes. iTunes is just a pretty XML based interface for QT. All the music and videos are played via QT.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[La_Boca]

That's funny, iTunes does come bundled with the Windows version of QuickTime though. Quite annoying, if you ask me. It's come to the point that I don't update QuickTime anymore because for every bloody minor version I have to download yet another version of iTunes (that I didn't ask for) only to have it throw its icons around my start menu and completely ignore my prefernces on associations.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[sakusha]

Precisely. I have been telling people for years, QuickTime is the crown jewel at Apple, and many of the most successful projects, like the iPod and iTunes, were created in the hopes of pushing QuickTime adoption on Windows.

As a web video and multimedia programmer, I have long wished for one universal standard based on QuickTime. Everyone's web experience would be so much better if we could all standardize around QT. But many times I encounter users who work in corporate IT environments with locked down PCs that are forbidden from installing QT. This seems to be a relic of olden times when online video and audio were seen as frivolous, and a big waste of bandwidth.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[squiggleslash]

That's an awful answer to an awful question.

Quicktime, like AVI, is a container. It forms part of a format, with the encoding of the actual moving images or audio waves being seperate from the encoding of the container. We generally seperate the two in terminology, the encoding of the images or waves being termed a codec.

In some cases, both formats use well documented codecs, in others they don't. A substantial amount of Quicktime content is encoded using Sorensen codecs. These are not documented, and due to a licensing agreement, are only available for Apple's implementation of Quicktime. Apple has veto power on what devices can use Sorensen codecs.

The reason, therefore, why there's no universal reader is because there cannot be. Microsoft, to use an example, cannot license "Quicktime" except for the publically documented, publically available, format and codecs. A substantial amount of content would not play under such a player. (Likewise, VLC cannot license most of WMV, though they're doing what they can.)

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[ioErr]

That's an awful answer to an awful question.

It is, but I felt he asked for it.

Apple has veto power on what devices can use Sorensen codecs.

That's interesting. I was not aware that Sorensen had allowed Apple to gain such a stranglehold on their own technology.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[NightLamp]

Why wasn't Flash included in the survey?
Because it would be impossible to discern any difference whatsoever betweeen WM/RP/QT - the Flash graph line would be several inches above the rest.
This is a comparison of fringe media players. I guess they've conceded the race is over as any relevant survey would embarrass all three.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[shotfeel]

Apple will always look bad in my eyes as long as they seek to lock people in via proprietry formats that they strictly enforce to prevent competition.

OK, lets look at the current streaming formats .

1) WMV using proprietary codec controlled by MS.
2) Real media using a proprietary codec controlled by Real
3) MP4 media is an industry standard controlled by the MPEG and used by Apple and anyone else who cares to license it.

All these formats support the optional use of DRM. As for the .mov files you're having trouble with, what codec was used for those? Also, I'm not very familiar with what's available for Windows, but on the Mac there are all kinds of full screen players that play .mov files, including VLC. So you don't have to pay.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[NightLamp]

This bundling is a completely unneccesary and reprehensible cash-grab from Apple.

I shelled out for QuickTime 6 Pro. Bought a shuffle, installed iTunes and presto! no more QuickTime Pro - just the regular crippled QuickTime 7. Never again.

This is happening all over the place and impacts business as employees install iTunes to manage thier pods at work and nuke the Pro 6 licenses. It is going to cost my company alone several thousand dollars. Now that's a halo effect.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[sh00z]

If this happened as a "presto!" then you ignored one of the installation acknowledgement messages. It clearly warns you during the QT7 installation process that any previous installations (and accompanying Pro version registrations) will be removed. And, by the way, if you happen to have a back-up, the current version of iTunes works just fine with QuickTime 6.5.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[CoughDropAddict]

I did a job about two years ago that involved programming to the QuickTime API. It was about the worst API I have ever had the displeasure of having to use. Unless they've added some nicer APIs in the last two years, I would never use QuickTime again if I had the choice.

Here is an excerpt of some of the gross code I was forced to write. I didn't just make this up -- it is almost exactly the same as the sample code from Apple, as well as other QuickTime code I came across. Notice all the weird casts everywhere, the handles that have multiple meanings, and the manual memory copy I am forced to do (to copy the contents of a handle into an "atom" -- WTF?) By the way, my use case wasn't super complicated -- all I wanted to do was read the contents of a sound file that is recognized by QuickTime.

// GetMediaSampleDescription takes a SampleDescriptionHandle, but apparently
// if the media is a sound (which presumably we know it is) then it will treat
// it as a SoundDescriptionHandle (which in addition to the format of single
// samples, also tells you sample rate, number of channels, etc.)
// Pretty messed up interface, if you ask me.
  SoundDescriptionHandle soundDescription = (SoundDescriptionHandle)NewHandle(0);
  GetMediaSampleDescription(mMedia, 1, (SampleDescriptionHandle)soundDescription);
 
// If this is a compressed format, it may have out-of-stream compression
// parameters that need to be passed to the sound converter. We retrieve
// these in the form of an audio atom. To do this, however we have to
// get the data by way of a handle, then copy it manually from the handle to
// the atom. These interfaces get worse all the time!
  Handle decompressionParamsHandle = NewHandle(0);
  AudioFormatAtomPtr decompressionParamsAtom = NULL;
  err = GetSoundDescriptionExtension(soundDescription, &decompressionParamsHandle,
                                      siDecompressionParams);
  if(err == noErr)
  {
// this stream has decompression parameters. copy from the handle to the atom.
      int paramsSize = GetHandleSize(decompressionParamsHandle);
      HLock(decompressionParamsHandle);
      decompressionParamsAtom = (AudioFormatAtomPtr)NewPtr(paramsSize);
//err = MemError();
      BlockMoveData(*decompressionParamsHandle, decompressionParamsAtom, paramsSize);
      HUnlock(decompressionParamsHandle);
  }
 
  if(decompressionParamsHandle)
      DisposeHandle(decompressionParamsHandle);

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[poot_rootbeer]

The QuickTime architecture seems solid and elegantly designed, and I like that it avoids the morass of codec problems that so often plagues Windows Media Player.

Despite all this, I still can't bring myself to use it any more often than absolutely necessary, because the user interface is frankly awful. This is especially true on Windows, where QT Player retains a Mac OS brushed-metal design, instead of looking like any other Windows app. It's jarring.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[Gorath99]

True, but as the parent of my post pointed out, there's a difference between QuickTime and the QuickTime player. I don't mind getting an updated version of the former if necessary, but I have absolutely no need for the latter.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[Suidae]

Despite all this, I still can't bring myself to use it any more often than absolutely necessary, because the user interface is frankly awful. This is especially true on Windows, where QT Player retains a Mac OS brushed-metal design, instead of looking like any other Windows app. It's jarring.

It also refuses to take mouse clicks unless the window is already focused, so you have to click twice to skip over a song you don't want to hear or pause. Highly annoying.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[TheRaven64]

Also, I'm not very familiar with what's available for Windows, but on the Mac there are all kinds of full screen players that play .mov files, including VLC.

I am really impressed with VLC. The new Red Versus Blue episodes are encoded with H.264, a format Apple is pushing heavily. On my 1.5GHz G4 with 21" screen they are jerky and drop frames when played with Quicktime. VLC plays them back fine with about 20% CPU to spare. I was under the impression that the open source H.264 decoder was fairly unoptimised, while the Apple one made use of all sorts of AltiVec tricks. If this is the case, Apple really needs to hire some better coders.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[Lars T.]

Errhumm. The software called "QuickTime Movie Player" that comes with QuickTime is just a demo app to show some of what QuickTime can do. I don't know why this seems to be the only other media player app for Windows using QT, but there are quite a few for Mac OS (both Classic and OS X).

PS to the Wintrolls: feel free to apply for a Darwin Award by pointing to this.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[assassinator42]

I have found VLC usually uses more resources than DirectShow on Windows. At least, it seems this way when I'm trying to watch an HD .ts/.mpg file.

Re:iTunes use surges past QuickTime?

[2nd Post!]

So here's the way I understand it:
iTunes:QuickTime Player
QuickTime

You can't just delete the QuickTime Player without uninstalling Quicktime? Perhaps that's just a Windows thing, because under OS X I can delete QuickTime Player.app

Then the other point; QuickTime Player itself is only a 10mb app, while the QuickTime framework it closer to 50mb.

So your displeasure with QuickTime Player is understandable, but it really is a small thing. Perhaps Apple should look into eliminating the QuickTime Player altogether and replace it with iTunes... but then you'd find people complaining about, "I only want the QuickTime Player, and I have to get iTunes!"

Funny isn't it?

Podcasts with no Pod

[simon_hibbs2]

I don't own an MP3 player, but occasionaly listen to 'podcasts' on my computer but I've no idea how representative I am.

How good a solution to general multimedia handling is iTunes? Why might a non-iPod user like me use it?

Simon Hibbs

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[edgr]

It is fantastic for handling all your music. I use iTunes to manage my music, even though I don't have an iPod (I play some music from my computer). Its by far the best of all the players I've tried; it is intuitive, works, and looks great.

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[Bazzalisk]

The mac version is very good, the windows version is very similar (which of course means that it doesn't feel as much like the rest of teh OS as one might like), there is, unfortunately, no Linux version.

To be honest it's free so why not try it and make the decision for yourself (unless you run Linux, in which case you can't)?

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[acomj]

Itunes works really well. I like it alot. Some people hate it and want winamp to make a comback.

My main problem with it are minor things. Like I'll type a song in the search box, release it doesn't find what I want because I'm searching a playlist, click the library and have to type the search again (no type ahead ala browser windows).

Its pretty intuitive, although I've met people who couldn't figure out how to find all songs on one album (the "browse" button seems to be a mystery to a couple of my friends who)

The podcasting is good, although its done through the "store" which isn't where it should be , even though its free. It does a good job automatically picking up new podcasts as they become available

I like the fact that its so easy to can share music from my tower to my notebook anywhere in the house saving precious notebook HD space.

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[jpietrzak]

Actually, iTunes does make locating and subscribing to podcasts fairly easy. I started using it to play some public radio podcasts, but I discovered weird and interesting podcasts listed in the iTunes store that I would probably have never tried otherwise (Japanese language lessons, a history of the Byzantine empire, an Anime video podcast, etc.).

I did eventually break down and get an iPod, but iTunes is quite usable without one, and I still play iTunes directly from my computer when I'm at home.

--John

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[generic-man]

iTunes plays everything QuickTime plays -- no more, no less. You can get plugins for Ogg Vorbis and DivX video, but I don't think there's one for tracker files like mods.

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[jschimpf]

And another use I've found is to keep all my PDF's in one place. You can drag them to the library and make a smart folder for type PDF and there they are. Real handy and you can sort by title,author and stuff (you do have put that in yourself, no CDDB for these babies.) Double click and you can view them. Keeps my references right at hand.

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[IANAAC]

...there is, unfortunately, no Linux version.

It does, however, run in Wine, albeit an older version of itunes.

Re:Podcasts with no Pod

[IntergalacticWalrus]

You're better off using amaroK anyway.

And the thing is

[Toreo asesino]

iTunes is sorely lacking in so many areas too!

'Automatic updates' consists of downloading a 35Mb new iTunes setup package each month or so...

The library doesn't update itself automatically...

There's no concept of 'checking for existing entries on import' - importing the same folder will just give you each track twice...

It doesn't work very well at all with keyboard shortcuts...

No plugin facility...

It's weighty as hell in memory...

but yet, after all these sore points, somehow, it's way cooler than WMP, RealPlayer, and sod it...anything else I've seen.

If Apple were a woman, she'd be a sexy slim figure - and you'd buy anything shite from her, just because she was so damn fine! Not like the fat moose of a wreck a Microsoft woman would be - she could be selling the moon on a stick, and you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

And on that note, perhaps I should mingle with real people some more.

Re:And the thing is

[Thrakkerzog]

I don't think Microsoft would be a fat moose. Maybe a somewhat attractive lady, but you can't shake the feeling that "she" is a "he" under that skirt.

Re:And the thing is

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I agree on the flaws, which are unfortunate.

I thought the program checks for existing tracks on folder or CD import, it's stopped me a few times and asked if I wanted duplicate tracks or replace them.

I am not sure about library updating itself automatically, you mean somehow updating the media files or the back end code? If you mean updating the media files, I don't know what you are asking to automatically update.

I thought there was a plugin system, it's just not obvious. Maybe I am thinking of Quicktime.

Re:And the thing is

[Alioth]

Apple isn't perfect, but they usually get the interface right. I use iTunes and friends on my PowerBook at home. I also sometimes use Windows Media Player for various training videos at work.

The difference is like night and day. Both can play sound and video perfectly adequately - but Windows Media Player is just so awkward and cumbersome compared to iTunes. No, WMP isn't *hard* to use, it's just cumbersome. For example, when I watch video on my Mac, the screensaver doesn't kick in if I've not touched the keyboard and mouse. When watching video at work, I have to periodically waggle the mouse to stop the screensaver starting (or turn off automatic screen locking, which is also cumbersome). One training CD is made up of about a dozen WMV files with a menu. When you start the next WMV file, Windows Media Player forgets your last volume setting and blasts you through your headphones. By comparison, my PowerBook doesn't forget volume settings between files. (Even my Linux system doesn't forget volume settings between files - or turn on the screen saver when I'm watching video, for that matter). There are numerous other niggles with WMP that don't exist with the Apple product.

Re:And the thing is

[ZzzzSleep]

The one feature that prevented me from using iTunes instead of Winamp was the lack of keyboard shortcuts. I eventually bit the bullet, downloaded the sdk from apple, and coded up a fairly simple app. I can now change tracks, fast forward, rewind, pause and change the volume without needing to give iTunes the focus. Huzzah!

ZzzzSleep

Re:And the thing is

[Tim C]

For example, when I watch video on my Mac, the screensaver doesn't kick in if I've not touched the keyboard and mouse.

Tools -> Options -> Uncheck "Allow screensaver during playback". Been there since at least WMP 8 if memory serves, which is when I started using it.

Re:And the thing is

[_xeno_]

When watching video at work, I have to periodically waggle the mouse to stop the screensaver starting (or turn off automatic screen locking, which is also cumbersome).

Ah, yes, that "feature" in Windows. For those who don't know, Windows does indeed go around to all the running applications and ask them "is it OK to bring up the screensaver?" so that media players can indeed prevent the screensaver from starting. Unless you have "automatically lock desktop" checked. Then it doesn't, and always brings the screensaver up. (I think it still alerts programs that it's going to, but doesn't listen to them if they say "don't open the screensaver."

This is, of course, a "security feature" to prevent malicious programs from preventing the computer from ever locking. 'Course, if you have a malicious program runnning in the first place, you're pretty much hosed anyway, making the feature pretty pointless.

So your only options are to disable automatic locking, and always remember to lock your desktop manually, or to simply wiggle the mouse every x minutes.

Re:And the thing is

[thona]

To add Insult to injury.... I reinstalled my windows some days ago. The option is unchecked by default. So, the poster, basically, complaints about a setting he has set himself. Now THAT is smart.

Re:And the thing is

[Tim C]

For me, there's one thing that keeps me away from iTunes and on WMP - WMP's toolbar mode. I love the way that I can minimise the interface to the taskbar, so I can still access the controls while doing something else.

The real killer features that iTunes brings, namely tight integration with iTMS and the iPod, are of little interest to me, as I don't *have* an iPod.

Re:And the thing is

[chrysrobyn]

iTunes is sorely lacking in so many areas too!

Let me rephrase what you just said: "iTunes lacks features! They should add features! And use less memory!"

These days, memory footprint doesn't matter. I don't know what iTunes does with all its space, but I suspect most of it is the Quicktime video codecs. That just gets swapped out to disk and doesn't impact the system. Although most of us can spare the RAM, certainly all of us can spare the disk space for 30 megs to get swapped out... Do you actually have performance issues where you think the memory iTunes is using would make a difference? Or is this a pragmatic thing? If we're starting with pragmaticism, it's an interesting place to start with a media player made by a novelty computer maker with eyes wide on RIAA (and arguably soon MPAA) products.

Re:And the thing is

[bit trollent]

If apple were a woman she would have a large blue vein extending from the nipple of her giant beasts. All your friends are like, "man, just look her tits."

But you have your doubts. You have seen alot of Apple City girls, and know the pitfalls of large breasts. Sure, they are pretty, but they can come with alot of problems.

Watch out if you ask one of these walking tit-bombs to improve herself. Maby loose a little weight, learn something new at the local community college. That bitch will send every one of her whiney little friends to your house, your school, and your work, to tell you how perfect she is. They will attempt to prove, through their whineing, that you are what is wrong. All those guys who drool over her all day can't be wrong.

No thanks.

Re:And the thing is

[Damek]

The library doesn't update itself automatically...

Not sure what you mean here - sure it does. You're interacting with your files via iTunes, right? I mean, if you're going out into your file system and moving stuff around, and then wondering why iTunes doesn't notice, you're just wasting your time complaining about it. The whole point is to use iTunes to interact with your music files and just let it worry about organizing that section of your file system. If you really must go futz with the files & folders themselves, then maybe iTunes just isn't for you in the first place.

Re:And the thing is

[jocknerd]

Well, it doesn't have a toolbar mode, but it does have a mini player in the advanced menu.

Re:And the thing is

[DDLKermit007]

I can do that too, but I never needed to screw with anything. Just bought a Logitech Cordless Keyboard & Mouse. Has all my controls up top (volume wheel as well). No need for the typical shortcuts and if anyone else is on the PC they know how to work the music off the keyboard eaisy. I don't have to tell them to hit the S key to stop the music.

Re:And the thing is

[Alrescha]

-> The library doesn't update itself automatically...

Well, that is not the model. If you let iTunes to manage the library and drag files to iTunes to add them then there is no reason to 'update' the library - ever. Some people don't do it that way, but for most iTunes users an 'automatic Library update' would be a waste of cycles.

-> There's no concept of 'checking for existing entries on import'

Your iTunes works differently than mine. If I drag a file or folder to iTunes twice, absolutely nothing happens the second time. No duplicates.

A.

Re:And the thing is

[Pocaille]

There's no concept of 'checking for existing entries on import' - importing the same folder will just give you each track twice...

- If you have an m3u playlist in your folder, itunes will import the playlist and the files in that folder...so you will have each track twice...

Re:And the thing is

[Alioth]

That option IS unchecked. It doesn't stop the screen saver (and screen lock) from coming on.

Re:And the thing is

[Alioth]

I _am_ the orginal poster - the option *IS* unchecked. But it doesn't stop the screensaver+screen lock from coming on - as far as I can tell, the option has absolutely no effect if your machine is set to automatically lock. Besides, I want the screen saver and screen lock to come on if I'm listening to music, but NOT when I'm watching video. That binary option either turns it completely on or off (well, it would if it actually worked).

Re:And the thing is

[smcdow]

There's no concept of 'checking for existing entries on import' - importing the same folder will just give you each track twice...

Yes, that does suck. The best it can do is "Edit -> Show Duplicate Songs". After that your on your own to remove duplicate tracks. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to have the SW do that for you.

Re:And the thing is

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it does have a toolbar mode. Right-click on your taskbar. Select Toolbars->iTunes. Now when you minimize iTunes, you get a toolbar interface!

Re:And the thing is

[T.Hobbes]

But 'Check for duplicate songs' only checks the ID3 tag. If you have two versions of a song, one live and one studio, with the same artist and title (and maybe album name too) it will single them out in 'check for dupes'. They could make it so itunes checks an MD5 of the song, but even then you'd have a problem if you had two versions of the same song, one at 160 kbps and another at 192 kbps.

Re:And the thing is

[carambola5]

AFAIK, there is no plugin facility for iTunes under Windows. Run it under OS X, though, and you can put AppleScript files in your ~/Library/iTunes/Script (must be created by user first). So says the website: http://www.apple.com/applescript/itunes/

The two plugins that I have installed on my PB are LAME ("encode selection with LAME") and a batch ID3 renamer (eg: "Myartist - Mytrack.mp3 w/ no ID3 info" -> ID3:artist:Myartist, ID3:track:Mytrack). I downloaded both since there seems to be a large-enough dev community out there, therefore I didn't have to roll my own.

As far as "library not updating automatically," I don't see how that ever comes into play. Adding new songs can be done by drag-drop. Acquisition can be set to automatically add downloaded (and, er, CC-licensed) mp3s to the library. And updating the filename is just something that is tedious and unnecessary, since iTunes does that for you.

And finally, the only shortcut most people ever really need is spacebar: play/pause.

Re:And the thing is

[spxero]

Add Media Center functionality to that list. If I can't use the MCE remote to change the song or video, it's not for me. And adding the 'buy me now, because you can't go fullscreen without pro' feature really struck a chord with me. I mean, if you want full market penetration, give me at least what I can do with similar products. If you can't do what WMP or RP does for the same or less cost, then don't bother.

Re:And the thing is

[Scudsucker]

Doesn't seem to work in 2000. Is than an XP thing?

Re:And the thing is

[thatguywhoiam]

Tools -> Options -> Uncheck "Allow screensaver during playback". Been there since at least WMP 8 if memory serves, which is when I started using it.

You sort of proved his point - what situaton would you ever want the screensaver kicking in during video playback? None. iTunes just simply disables the screensaver and no option needs to be ticked. That's good design.

Re:And the thing is

[Kadin2048]

I think this is a feature, not a bug. Let's say I go through and start re-ripping my CDs at 256kb/s AAC, and I want to selectively remove the old 128kb/s MP3 versions; I use the check for duplicate songs feature and can remove the MP3 versions easily. (By displaying the file size or bit rate column in the view, and sorting by it.) In combination with the columns and views, Show Duplicates can be a pretty useful feature. I remember versions of iTunes before it was added, and it was sorely needed.

Re:And the thing is

[edwdig]

There's no concept of 'checking for existing entries on import' - importing the same folder will just give you each track twice...

I've had the opposite problem. If I import a folder again, iTunes will gladly skip over the files already in the library, however, it will leave the files that are no longer there in the library.

Re:And the thing is

[Seanasy]

If apple were a woman she would have a large blue vein extending from the nipple of her giant beasts.

You've actually never seen a woman naked, have you?

Re:And the thing is

[calstraycat]

It works for me in Windows 2000. I'm using it right now.

Re:And the thing is

[calstraycat]

Here's how to control iTunes from the taskbar:

-In iTunes, select Edit->Preferences

-Click on the Advanced tab.

-Check the box for "Show iTunes icon in system tray"

Once enabled, right-clicking the icon in system tray gives you access to the iTunes controls.

Re:And the thing is

[RemovableBait]

And it's a total pain in the arse if you're giving a Powerpoint presentation.

Re:And the thing is

[_xeno_]

It won't work if you have "On resume, password protect" checked on the Screen Saver tab in the Display Properties. When that option is checked, Windows will ignore applications that tell it not to activate the screensaver. As far as I can tell, there's no (public) way to forcibly uncheck that from an application.

This is a "security feature" so that malicious programs can't prevent your desktop from automatically locking the desktop. Except, of course, if you're running a malicious program, the fact that the desktop might not lock is probably not high on your list of concerns. It's just a flat-out annoying feature.

Trust me - I went hunting for a way to create a program that would actively prevent the screensaver from displaying while "On resume, password protect" is checked. I never did figure out a way.

Re:And the thing is

[Suidae]

What if you want the screensaver to come on, even if video is playing?

Re:And the thing is

[Suidae]

Hm, could such a malicious program wiggle the mouse periodically, or is windows smart enough to know the difference between user input and programmed mouse moves?

I'm guessing it wouldn't work, else your search would have been more successful.

Re:And the thing is

[killjoe]

Microsoft is a hooker that will steal your wallet after you have rolled over and went to sleep. You won't be able to call the police either because you are too ashamed and embarrased to be have slept with her in the first place.

The worst part is that she wasn't that great of a lay in the first place, you were probably better off trying to get you sex for free.

Re:And the thing is

[for_usenet]

Actually, iTunes does support plug-ins, and not just for media. I think it will use Quicktime extensions to play different media formats, so if someone ported, say the Ogg Vorbis plugin for quicktime, you should be able to use it to play Ogg songs in iTunes. Plus - the older versions of Whitecap (a combo spectrum analyser and screen saver) also work within iTunes, and provide a MUCH nicer visualizer (IMHO) to Apple's default.

iTunes

[pwrtool 45]

Yeah, their Linux client is gre...oh. Wait.

Re:iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, their Linux client is gre...oh. Wait.

I think the popularity of Macs on Slashdot really has shown how many users have abandoned the idea of having a usable Linux desktop system when they could have a UNIX workstation on a laptop or desktop by just buying a Mac running OS X. When I first got an iBook several years ago it was a dream compared to the headaches of trying to run Linux on a Dell Inspiron notebook while trying to get my wireless and sound working. In its defense, Linux support for my 6 year old Dell and 802.11b card has finally caught up and they're fully supported, but some of us prefer not to have to wait around for our computers to become obsolete before they're usable. If you take the average brand new computer today off the shelf, it's likely at least some of its components will not work with Linux. On the other hand, you can take any Mac off the shelf and it will work 100% with MacOS X.

WMP still No 1 and growing but slower than iTunes

[orlinius]

Did you notice that Microsoft is on a linear growth "curve" no doubt due to OS sales.
iTunes is growing faster though, so if this trend continues, in a year or two, iTunes will be the No 1 media player on the market. Not bad at all. God bless those iPods :)

Reminds me of Netscape when they launched version 4 and announced that Windows will become irrelevant as people will spend most of their time in Netscape. Is it possible that iTunes will do that in the near future as people will increasingly use their computers for entertainment (and not TV, radio, DVDs, outdoor activities, etc.)?

Apple of my eye

[digitaldc]

As broadband penetration increases we are spending more time on our computers.

Broad penetration, however, has been decreasing as we are spending more time on our computers.

Re:Apple of my eye

[Shag]

But aren't the video-capable iPods intended for watching broadband penetration?

So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Schlemphfer]

In light of this report, I'm wondering if and when I should ditch providing MP3s for my podcast and switch to AAC? I know I could provide both formats but that would entail a lot of extra work.

I'm really eager to ditch MP3s for a couple reasons. First, I understand that AAC sounds at least twice as good at comparable bitrates. Second, I'm no more trusting of the MP3 coalition than I was of the JPG owners, whereas I can't picture apple ever seeking royalty backpayments from podcasters using the AAC format.

An obvious solution is to provide both MP3 and AAC files, but I'm lazy and would prefer to offer only one format. Any thoughts on whether it makes sense for a podcaster to switch entirely to AAC? I'm sure most of my listeners would appreciate the enhanced sound quality. But what percentage of my listeners would be likely to disappear?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[tpgp]

In light of this report, I'm wondering if and when I should ditch providing MP3s for my podcast and switch to AAC?

You would be an idiot to drop mp3 in favour of mp4.

Mp3 is still the king. There is no format out there that comes close. You don't want to alienate all your listeners with old mp3 players (or the multitude who've bought the $20 256MB chinese cheapies)

Dropping it for mp4 would make about as much sense as dropping it for ogg.

First, I understand that AAC sounds at least twice as good at comparable bitrates.

I don't know what sort of audio files you're distributing - but do your own listen tests. Different codecs perform wildly differently depending on the source audio type & most reviews are using pretty standard music with vocals.

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Alioth]

I _only_ use AAC podcasts. The nice thing about the enhanced ones for iTunes is they can include hypertext links (so when listening to 75minutes, I don't have to work out how that strange band name is actually spelled - the link is right there) and artwork. The AAC podcasts also make it easier to precisely skip the bits I don't want to listen to (for example, I don't like all the genres of music that 75minutes plays, but I can just click on the next track to skip the stuff I don't like, instead of having to carefully fastforward and rewind).

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Deaths Hand]

As far as I know, AAC has a coalition behind it, just as MP3 does. After all AAC is part of the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 standards, (Apple puts it in an MPEG-4 container), just as MP3 was MPEG-1 Layer 3. So the same MPEG group is still behind the standards and the licensing.

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Scudsucker]

Mp3 is still the king. There is no format out there that comes close.

Not when it comes to podcasts, it aint. AAC supports bookmarking, so you can resume your 20 minute podcast right where you left off. And besides, there's a reason why it's called "podcasting".

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[bloosqr]

m4a aka aac are much better. The quality is much smoother and it is very easy to setup hyperlinking and skipping, image based chapters (for each song). These things work both on the downloaded .m4a file w/in itunes as well as the web based quicktime plugin. As itunes is so ubiquitous/free and quicktime also free I dont think there
is much of a downside of going this route.

To see an example of this, that I recently created check out :

http://www.bloosqr.com/the%20essence/the%20Podcast /the%20Podcast.html

-best
-bloosqr

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[metamatic]

In my tests, LAME-encoded MP3s sound better than AACs at the same bitrates. Check it out for yourself.

Of course, you may be too lazy or CPU-starved to LAME-encode everything...

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[tpgp]

AAC supports bookmarking, so you can resume your 20 minute podcast right where you left off.

Is it really worth ditching a sizable percentage of your target audience because a tiny percentage of your audience doesn't know how to use a pause button?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Fahrenheit 450]

Is it really a sizable percentage? Obviously he'd have to ask the listeners, but anyone with an iPod can play aac (and I'd guess many of the newer players do as well), and the iPod is the dominant player on the market...

And bookmarking is much more than pausing. If I'm listening to an audiobook or podcast (say in the car on the way home), and I deceide to go out for a run, I can just switch over to a music playlist for that then come right back to the spot I left off at in the audiobook when I'm finished working out. Your "pause button" solution doesn't work so well there unless I have a separate player... In addition, I can play a bookmarkable file on my iPod, then when I plug it into my computer, it updates the corresponding file on the computer via iTunes, so I can listen to it there starting up where I left off.

Bookmarking and chapters are a very good thing.

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[ibennetch]

Since this thread seems more active than the other one you commented in, I'll just refer to my response to you there where I explain how to bookmark MP3s with iTunes.

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[tepples]

and the iPod is the dominant player on the market

You sound like the companies who refuse to port their software to GNU/Linux, even if it involves merely testing the product under a recent version of Wine, because Microsoft Windows is the dominant operating system. So did you plan on buying an iPod brand player for each of your customers who currently owns a paid-for "submissive" player?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[Fahrenheit 450]

Yep. And just like for a lot of those companies there may not be any economic advantage to playing nice with the lesser markets. In this case, if taking advantage of the added features of aac over mp3 allow OP to gain more listeners for his podcast than he would lose by switching, then the decision is a pretty simple one... you switch (unless he were to set up multiple feeds, one for each format). If not, then, again the decision is pretty simple.

This isn't rocket science.

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[assassinator42]

Wait, AAC supports bookmarking, or iPod/iTunes? And can't you do that with MP3 on iTunes as well?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[assassinator42]

Wait, you're buying your "customers" iPods? What are you selling?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Hypertext links to related content while you're listening to it? Why am I suddenly reminded of Babylon 5?

Re:So, when should podcasts ditch MP3s for AAC?

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Second, I'm no more trusting of the MP3 coalition than I was of the JPG owners, whereas I can't picture apple ever seeking royalty backpayments from podcasters using the AAC format.

Whoa, careful there, the AAC format does not belong to Apple, they are just licensing it. The truth is AAC is just as patent-encumbered and non-free as MP3.

Should surpass realplayer?

[tpgp]

I have to say that I'm very surprised that itunes hasn't long since surpassed real player.

I know plenty of people who use itunes, but none who use realplayer.

Still, both are irritating adware & nagware (along with WMP of course)

We need a firefox for media....

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[infestedsenses]

We need a firefox for media....

You mean something like Songbird? :)

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[GooglePlexity]

We need a firefox for media...

But how could you afford to leave every song in memory?

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[zoeblade]

I know plenty of people who use itunes, but none who use realplayer. Still, both are irritating adware & nagware

Um, which iTunes adverts are you referring to? There's no version that requires payment that they try to nag you to buy. If you're talking about the MiniStore, try going to Edit > Hide MiniStore (this may be different in Windows; I'm using OS X).

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[tpgp]

You mean something like Songbird? :)

Yup, something like Songbird, but complete, cross platform and with the licensing clarified

Files that are our original creations are copyright Pioneers of the Inevitable LLC. We plan to keep the vast majority, if not all, of our source code available under a GPL license.[emphasis mine]

Songbird looks cool, but with no linux client its useless to me.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[tpgp]

Um, which iTunes adverts are you referring to? There's no version that requires payment that they try to nag you to buy.

You say you use osx - I'm not sure if it does it too, but under windows, itunes installs quicktime which is irritating nagware.

If you're talking about the MiniStore, try going to Edit > Hide MiniStore

Errr right, I didn't say you couldn't turn it off, I just said (and thanks for confirming) that it is adware & nagware.

Haven't used itunes for a while (and that was on my gf's laptop), so my memory is a little hazy.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[RMH101]

does songbird do anything cool like add itunes-like features to generic usb bulk storage mp3 players? automatic upload of playlists, automatic download and transfer of podcasts, etc? now THAT would be cool and remove the few points that tie me to itunes/ipod at the moment...

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[tpgp]

does songbird do anything cool like add itunes-like features to generic usb bulk storage mp3 players? automatic upload of playlists, automatic download and transfer of podcasts, etc? now THAT would be cool and remove the few points that tie me to itunes/ipod at the moment...

Nope, Songbird isn't ready for production yet. It does however plan to do everything you mention (and be extensible like firefox)

You're probably best off sticking with itunes for now - and if you want to use a generic mp3 player, give the Bad Apple generic mp3 player / itunes sync plugin a whirl. It allegedly breaks the Itunes Music Store, but hey, many people would consider that a feature

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[diamondsw]

Come on, what a blatant and yet crappy rip-off. Try something innovative, like amaroK.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[mmkkbb]

At what point does iTunes nag or present ads? You can turn off the ministore with a mouse click.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[circusboy]

I think a big one for Real is that the nfl streams all their games on real. just think of all the fantasy football leagues there are...

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[gozar]

You say you use osx - I'm not sure if it does it too, but under windows, itunes installs quicktime which is irritating nagware.

IIRC, it doesn't nag you anymore with QT7 under Windows or OS X. And it never nagged you with iTunes, only with the standalone quicktime player.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[mmkkbb]

The only nag I can think of is the QuickTime Pro crap that comes up when you open QuickTime Player, but I've never seen that with iTunes.

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[Ilgaz]

Realplayer is not adware, especially after 10. It was never adware , just annoying.

Helix Project (open source leg of real networks) announced 50 million Symbian S60 installations and 100.000 registered members to their site

https://helixcommunity.org/

They are building an empire on Mobile media. No need to panic, all "standards based"

Realnetworks have more than 2 MILLION PAYING subscribers.
http://www.realnetworks.com/company/press/releases /2006/q405results_8r16Js.html

Also a funny fact is, most of the large content providers may use windows media (MS exclusive deals etc) but the media is served via Helix/Real servers in fact. :)

Re:Should surpass realplayer?

[dangitman]

Why the hell is their website at songbirdnest.com, instead of songbird.com? Not very consumer-friendly. Even Firefox has a URL that is the same name as the product.

Who "uses" real player?

[glesga_kiss]

What is this figure trying to say? Is it refering to the installed base, as in, how many unique software installs you have? Or is it saying that you have X users who fire up the app everyday to browse their music?

If the former is the case, then it is completely bogus. It is very difficult to get Quicktime without the iTunes bundle, first you need to know that they are bundled, then you need to google the link as the standalone Quicktime installer is hidden away on the site. I've never found a link to it on the Apple site.

And everyone has the Quicktime player on their PC. It's in the list of bog-standard things you do when installing e.g. Windows for someone. Quicktime, Firefox, RealPlayer (maybe) and Acrobad Reader. The reason RealPlayer is a maybe is because they have been doing some pretty shoddy tactics to get their marketshare and profits up. Things like hiding the free cut-down version on the site, so that you have to download other nonsense that you don't want.

Sounds like Apple has been reading Real's playbook. Just because someone has iTunes on their PC, it doesn't mean that they are an iTunes user. Especially when they trojaned the iTunes install in via a Quicktime download. The bottom line however is that Apple want to be able to say to the music industry that "we have X million users" when really they are saying "we have X million users running iTunesService.exe, but only a fraction of them actually use iTunes, but we want to omit that detail as the former marketing point is technically correct and way more sexy".

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[Seta]

Chances are that they're following the age old corporate habit of following completely unreliable and sometimes unrelated statistics. For example, downloads doesn't equal users (See: Browsers, Chat clients, Websites, etc), discovering more bugs doesn't make the product insecure (See: Browser and Operating system security debates.), etc. However 9 times out of 10, someone will make an outrageous claim based on these statistics, and people, not knowing better, will write articles about it. In the end it's just publicity.

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[Jaseoldboss]

And everyone has the Quicktime player on their PC. It's in the list of bog-standard things you do when installing e.g. Windows for someone

Err no. The bog standard thing I do is nuke the "Quicktime Nagware" and "Real Ad-Player" and install QuickTime Alternative and Real Alternative (from the same site).

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[IANAAC]

The reason RealPlayer is a maybe is because they have been doing some pretty shoddy tactics to get their marketshare and profits up. Things like hiding the free cut-down version on the site, so that you have to download other nonsense that you don't want.

Actually, walk into any Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. Pretty much all new PC's have a trial version of Rhapsody pre-installed. OF course the Realplayer's going to be installed as well.

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[hgavin]

the standalone Quicktime installer is hidden away on the site. I've never found a link to it on the Apple site.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone .html. Just look for the link named "QuickTime Standalone Installer" on the main quicktime download page.

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[xVladx]

If the former is the case, then it is completely bogus. It is very difficult to get Quicktime without the iTunes bundle, first you need to know that they are bundled, then you need to google the link as the standalone Quicktime installer is hidden away on the site. I've never found a link to it on the Apple site.

FYI, it is linked from the Quicktime download page, as "Quicktime Standalone Installer". http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the former is the case, then it is completely bogus. It is very difficult to get Quicktime without the iTunes bundle, first you need to know that they are bundled, then you need to google the link as the standalone Quicktime installer is hidden away on the site. I've never found a link to it on the Apple site.

Very difficult? You gotta be kidding. Go to the QuickTime download page http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html and click on the link to your right that says "QuickTime Standalone Installer" http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone .html

Wow, that was hard.

And if you look a little bit more (Support > Download) you'll find older version of QuickTime for either Mac OS or Windows, in every language, down to Version 6!

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[samkass]

Since the article appears to apply to unique users of streaming media, it seems like it would be fairly easy to measure and not be based on number of downloads of the clients. It also appears to not be taking into account local media libraries or iPod-stored media at all, although the article is vague on that point.

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[toddestan]

Maybe I hate Quicktime because it's ugly (and a completely different ugly than Windows itself), bloated, installs icons everywhere, steals file associations, has a lousy interface, doesn't do full screen*, installs programs into memory, and is slow? It's nice that they FINALLY got rid of the stupid nag message, but I had no idea because I don't let Quicktime anywhere near my systems (nor Real Player, for mostly the same reasons). Also, is it any wonder that someone who's only real experience with Apple products is their lousy software for Windows, doesn't like Apple?

*Just because it's a "dumb marketing decision" doesn't mean it's not a valid complaint.

Re:Who "uses" real player?

[dangitman]

If the former is the case, then it is completely bogus. It is very difficult to get Quicktime without the iTunes bundle,

How difficult is it to go to www.quicktime.com and click on "download"? They don't even make you enter an email address, or hide the download like Real does. If this is difficult for you, then I don't know what to say.

I have little sympathy for real player

[helix_r]

Real player has really wore out the good-will of its users. It is now a pretty good player, but for years they annoyed the hell out of everyone that downloaded from them.

You know...

* having to click through and read 10 webpages to get to the free realplayer whose link was always hidden in a corner somewhere. What were they thinking? That users would accidently click on the non-free version and then give up and just pay for it?

* Nag screens, annoying forms, when installing-- no real player, you will never fucking get my home phone number.

* Remember the instability and the crashes...

Sadly, I see some traits like this in iTunes. Recently, I had wanted to download JUST QUICKTIME. I was rudely surprised that I can't do that anymore. I HAVE TO download iTunes+quicktime-- whether I want iTunes or not. Screw that. It looks like iTunes has failed to learn the hard lessons of Real Player.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[Xyde]

Sadly, I see some traits like this in iTunes. Recently, I had wanted to download JUST QUICKTIME. I was rudely surprised that I can't do that anymore. I HAVE TO download iTunes+quicktime-- whether I want iTunes or not. Screw that. It looks like iTunes has failed to learn the hard lessons of Real Player.

What?

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[howlatthemoon]

I don't know where you were looking, but I find the Quicktime installer at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download. It will bounce you to the installer for the system you are on, but there is a link to the other system on the page. It does not appear to install iTunes. I'd be interested to find out information to the contrary. One thing I found about the article, is that when you add the Quicktime player and iTunes together, it has surpassed Real. Of course the trouble with this survey is that Quicktime is installed by so many things, that most people do not realize they have it on their systems. I bet if they surveyed just mac users, many of them would be uncertain, or even deny having quicktime installed.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[helix_r]

Congratulations. You _found_ the standalone player. You have proven that the standalone exists.

I admit that I just went to the apple website. Clicked on "Quicktime" and was brought to here... http://www.apple.com/quicktime/win.html

Clicking on the download takes me to a place where it says "QuickTime" and "Free download". It then proceeds to download itunes+quicktime-- for me, it is very annoying to have something you don't want "bundled with" your download.

I don't care if a standalone exists, if they bury it in some corner of the website. I should be able to get this sofware quickly and with no fuss and minimal reading. They are repeating the mistakes of Realplayer.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[rdieter]

Recently, I had wanted to download JUST QUICKTIME. I was rudely surprised that I can't do that anymore. I HAVE TO download iTunes+quicktime

Guess you missed the "QuickTime Standalone Installer" link on http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html?

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[dolphinlover]

One is a big blue button, one is plain text that is pretty unremarkable and not even close to that button. You completely ignored his point about the unbundled version intentionally being made harder to find and instead decided to insult him personally. Your lack of consideration and attitude says a great deal about your mental age.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[helix_r]

My time is valuable. My task was to get quicktime.

But in a way, you are right, if I had bothered to read all of marketing copy on the page, I would have seen "quicktime standalone" in a bullet-list with other items such as "features", "FAQ", "learn more about quicktime pro".

So, yeah, for people with the luxury of time to pore over marketing copy, I guess it obvious how to get the standalone version.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[KarmaMB84]

Some of us can skim through the text of links quite easily. I found it within 2 seconds of looking at download page.

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[Lars T.]

Well, his point was Recently, I had wanted to download JUST QUICKTIME. I was rudely surprised that I can't do that anymore. not that "the unbundled version intentionally being made harder to find and instead". Your lack of functional literacy and attitude says a great deal about your mental age..

Re:I have little sympathy for real player

[Ohreally_factor]

This is slashdot.

Our time is to valuable to RTFA, but not too valuable to give our opinion about TFA.

Fullscreen

[way2trivial]

an option only if you pay, more offensive to me if they want market penetration- but it is infact available...

Re:WMP still No 1 and growing but slower than iTun

[ronocdh]

It's an interesting thought, certainly. Check this out: http://www.songbirdnest.com/ It has a much better chance of eclipsing the stereotypical desktop experience with its multimedia capabilities than iTunes does.

Re:There are three kinds of lies

[digitalhermit]

I dunno.. Drop by a Starbucks or a college campus and there are iPods aplenty. With the 18-25 yr old crowd it seems to be a hit. But that demographic is pretty fickle so who knows what will happen in 6 months or a year.

But Mac users do have that glazed over, SJRDF (*) blankness when it comes to talking about their OS.
Reminds me of that Lovecraft story:

Presently the old man drew back his hood and pointed to the family resemblance in his face, but I only shuddered, because I was sure that the face was merely a devilish waxen mask. The flopping animals were now scratching restlessly at the lichens, and I saw that the old man was nearly as restless himself.

The new iMacs and MacBooks are pretty nice though. It's a perfect size for me, and is otherwise a decent laptop except for the single mouse button which makes it almost unusable with Linux. Hopefully they'll have a two or three button trackpad option.

* SJRDF - Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field

ObFreebies

[Rob T Firefly]

I tend to prefer a big heaping plate of Media Player Classic, with a side order of Real Alternative and Quicktime Alternative.

iTunes Trojan Horse

[dirtfox]

It's certainly a hefty package. I once noticed itunes added 50+ secs to a fresh windows instalation. You don't have to used iTunes at all, If you have an iPod shuffle - you can use the "rebuild_db.exe" 9k application and simple drag and drop your music onto the player.

Re:iTunes Trojan Horse

[Redwin]

You don't have to used iTunes at all, If you have an iPod shuffle - you can use the "rebuild_db.exe" 9k application and simple drag and drop your music onto the player.

I wonder if you could get an equivilant standalone app for other mp3 players? It would be really cool if I could just keep a simple executable on the player (Sony's NWA3000 in my case) which allowed me to access songs without needing a program to be installed. Its definitely one thing I miss about my old iRiver. Anyone know of any such apps?

Re:iTunes Trojan Horse

[atrocious cowpat]

"I once noticed itunes added 50+ secs to a fresh windows instalation.

While I'd never discard anecdotal evidence as bullshit per se, I'd really, really like to read some background/corroboration to your statement.

"+50 Secs" you say... on boot-time, I take it? On the first boot? Or on all consecutive boots, too? Sounds like a drastic slowdown... has anyone else noted anything similar?

Your post was "intersting" indeed, but is it "insightful" (or actually universally true)? I wonder...

Re:iTunes Trojan Horse

[slazar]

iTunes on Windows installs two services, called ipodservice.exe and iTunesHelper.exe. On a slow machine or a machine with hardware problems these could definitly cause it to be a slow booter.

Re:iTunes Trojan Horse

[toddestan]

Well, if you use iTunes a lot (or even occasionally), Windows will put the binaries into the prefetch, which will also slow down Windows starting up.

Re:There are three kinds of lies

[macaroo]

Sir, you obviously been living in an refrigerator box or under a rock. I am a long time Apple fan. OSX 10.4.5 ( Tiger ) is my personal choice for my own music and video work. It is extremely stable and is not at risk from virii and spyware and other malware. I am glad to see the World is starting to recognize the technical superiority of Apple products and software. Yeah, it is a closed shop, but they can and do control the hardware and, more importantly, the software. They don't try to be all things to everybody. Let it be known that I make my living repairing, upgrading and cleaning up Windows boxes. I work on both sides of the fence. In the 3 years that I have been in my business, I have had exactly 3 Apple calls; two of those were re-installations of used equipment. In other words, I would starve if all I done was work on Apples. Bill Gates and his Windows OSs has assured that I will always have food on the table and my bills will get paid!

Re:Good.

[ziggamon2.0]

Seriously - you need to decide once and for all whether windows sucks or blows!

Cause doing both at the same time doesn't make any sense!

Not needed on Linux

[CarpetShark]

It's not needed on Linux. For audio podcasts, there's amarok, which is better than iTunes. For video (and audio, and other) podcasts, there's PenguinTV (use the latest unstable version).

Re:Not needed on Linux

[Trip Ericson]

And for the iTunes Video store there's...

Never mind.

Re:Not needed on Linux

[Ohreally_factor]

p2p?

Re:Not needed on Linux

[Trip Ericson]

Some of us WANT to support the programming we like. I would be willing to pay for The Daily Show, could I download it on Linux.

Re:Not needed on Linux

[CarpetShark]

..better alternatives, which respect your rights.

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/guide/

Re:Not needed on Linux

[IntergalacticWalrus]

The fact that amaroK does not support DRM makes it superior to iTunes.

Listen to more Podcasts than Music

[aka_big_wurm]

On my Ipod I listen to more Podcasts than music. Audio Books are great too. Nothing better to pass the time at work.

At home video casts have become a big thing since building a Media PC for my TV.

It's Official! Google has lost.

[MasJ]

Google Vs. Microsoft on Google's own turf. Oh the shame!.

Re:It's Official! Google has lost.

[Thrakkerzog]

Another good one!

Completely Un-Shocking

[Kozz]

Considering that I use iTunes because I WANT to, but use RealPlayer and Quicktime only when I HAVE TO. I find both of the latter bloated, irritating. I'm not sure the actual root of my dislike for Quicktime, but maybe it's because I used to have lots of problems playing .MOV files on my previous dual P3-550 (1GB RAM), with no apparent fix.

Re:Completely Un-Shocking

[Valafar]

Perhaps it's moot to point this out, but by using iTunes, you're using Quicktime. The media engine behind iTunes IS quicktime.

Re:Completely Un-Shocking

[Kozz]

Well, yes. This is true. I guess for years, I thought of "Quicktime" merely as the plug-in and/or stand-alone "bloated Quicktime Player" that I kept around only when websites provided movie trailers in .mov format because Apple got their hands on a portion of the movie websites business.

True, iTunes uses the Quicktime library, but is far better executed than the Quicktime player itself. Blech.

Re:Try installing Quicktime 7 ... without iTunes

[Ju55i]

Here you go. Standalone Quicktime 7 player:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone .html

What do you think changed? Nothing!

[crovira]

"online video and audio were seen as frivolous, and a big waste of bandwidth."

Man, if my machine at work was a tricked out as any of the boxez at home, I never get any real work done.

Microsoft is pushing against the grain trying to get any if this shit acepted and businesses, Microsoft's biggest client base by far, aren't interested is in frivolity anymore than they're interested in the constant fight against viri.

Apple is getting sucked up in the vacuum of the differences between what Apple delivers painlessly in the home versus the resistance felt by Microsoft from its huge base of business customers.

Radio's dead at the hands ClearChannel, etc.

TV's dead at the hands of CableVision, etc.

Content costs too much. They just want to run ads and rake in money.

Their inventory consists of 1,440 of YOUR minutes of air time per day. And the economics of running ads over broadcasting means that you have to be selling shit that appeals to a broad demographic.

They want to force you to watch all of their shit and fuck you and fuck what you want. And its stupid, vapid, safe, bowldereized, placified, flacified, gutless content, as per FCC regulation.

The revolution'll be on a podcast. It just sound economic sense.

Broadcast and mass market media costs are way up here and getting worse.

Podcast are dirt cheap and limited to whatever the podcaster wants to produce. There's no pimping you stuff out to somebody who owns a transmitter and an FCC licence and charges somebody new 100 years of inflation all at once.

Podcasting stands all of the economic factors on their heads.

itunes on windows

[xmodem_and_rommon]

When i ran itunes on my windows box (on 24/7) as my main media player, it seemed to do a perfectly good job of this (Eating over 300MB of my 512MB of ram)

I now have a mac. Itunes is consuming 37MB.

Re:itunes on windows

[Scudsucker]

When i ran itunes on my windows box (on 24/7) as my main media player, it seemed to do a perfectly good job of this (Eating over 300MB of my 512MB of ram)

Either you have a few hundered thousand songs or something's wack. I have over 16,000 songs in my iTunes on my PC, and while playing a video it uses 70 megs of ram.

Re:There are three kinds of lies

[zappepcs]

I got modded troll for suggesting that iPods are not as prevelant (at least in the world I live in) as the report suggests, and that anyone that doesn't want DRM might well be better off with a non-DRM'd MP3 player.... apparently, you've been breathing the special packets that they put in shipping crates at Apple for far too long. I'm sure you are quite happy with Apple, and statistically, there are lots of people that are happy with broadcast radio... so what?

My point is that the statistics saying that the iPod is "all that and a bag of chips" is just statistics, not reality in all places of the world, not even all places of North America. Quit huffing on the hype. Quicktime runs on MS too, so its not an OS thing. There are tons of MP3 players out there, all a bit different, most of them are not iPods. iPod is an iFad, like buying those special running shoes... you don't need an iPod to hear music. This story, and stories like it are just hype, the kind of hype that PR machines use to increase sales!

Statistics don't mean anything useful unless there are also statistics for all other aspects of the topic being discussed. How many non-iPod music players are there in use? How many have been sold with WMP on them? How many, including iPods, are just collecting dust in the glove box right now? Using ITMS statistics is sure to make the report lopsided. In fact, usage statistics are incredibly difficult to ascertain. Purchase statistics mean nothing for consumer electronics fads. The truth is that there 'may' be more MP3 players in use than anyone knows about because the owners are using their CD's to rip music and listen to it, ergo no music store stats, and few purchase stats. Statistics that arrive after the holiday shopping season are suspect to start with. How many gifts get purchased and never used? How many are resold or regifted? I resold the iPod I was given... the inflated price made that an EASY choice.

Statistics are just another way to lie....

Re:WMP still No 1 and growing but slower than iTun

[Wolvie MkM]

Uh... We all remember how that worked out for Netscape right? Right??

What about Winamp users?

[Tekninja_Hawk]

Ive used iTunes, I used to work at a mac service/sales store. I personally dont like iTunes, its slow, it uses a lot of memory, and its not skinnable etc. I have been a huge fan of winamp since version 2.x, Winamp 5 seems to do everything that iTunes does, except have the online music store. Most of the people i know only use iTunes for the ipod sync feature. Theres actually a plugin for that on winamps site, its free, and it seems to work even faster than iTunes syncs an ipod. So wheres the statistics for Winamp users in this thing? I have never seen anyone actually USE realplayer, for one. The only thing realplayer is good for is playing realplayer files. Which doesnt seem to be very common on the web anymore, most videos being in Windows Media format or Quicktime. Id just like to see winamp user stats on this page as well, anyone else use Winamp?

Re:What about Winamp users?

[assassinator42]

I find the lack of Winamp data a little weird too. Anyone know how many users it has? I'm guessing more than iTunes, at least. Also, does anyone know if you can turn off that AJAX stuff in the media library in the latest version? I'm sticking with 5.13 for now, because I'm content with a good old list.

best reason to switch - bookmarking

[Scudsucker]

AAC supports bookmarking, which allows you to resume listening to an audiobook or podcast exactly where you left off, in either iTunes or on an iPod. For example, you could start listening to a nice 20 minute podcast on the way to the gym, switch to your workout playlist, and then resume your podcast on the way home.

Re:best reason to switch - bookmarking

[Fahrenheit 450]

Yep. And in addition to that, the creator (well anybody) can also add predefined chapter settings, which is really nice for longer, multi-section files. O'Reilly had a nice little intro to Apple's ChapterTool the other day.

Re:best reason to switch - bookmarking

[ibennetch]

iTunes recently (I think version 6, but I'm not sure) added support for bookmarking MP3 files. Right click a file, go to file info, "Options" tab, and check "Remember playback position"

Yeah, at least it happens automatically for AAC files, but it's not that hard to do and can probably be scripted rather easily. And as I recall it happens automatically for podcasts now, too, though it may just be a flag set in the particular podcasts I subscribe to.

Besides, that's the kind of thing I'd rather have my player do than the format itself, but you're right, it is nice.

Only the Player is crippled, not QT itself.

[Kadin2048]

This isn't true -- Quicktime the media framework, quite different from Quicktime Player -- will play back full screen. You just need to get a different player.

I can't vouch for it personally but this one is less than 600kB with source code:
http://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/Freeware/Fullscr eenMoviePlayer.shtml

BTW, this exact same situation exists for both Windows and Mac, it's not as though Apple is doing something special to gouge PC users. Most Mac users who don't want to pay just use a different player application. The player itself is just a frontend to the Quicktime architecture and libraries, which aren't crippled or require payment in any way. (iTunes is the same thing, it's a frontend to Quicktime also, which it uses to play audio and video.)

Re:Only the Player is crippled, not QT itself.

[assassinator42]

That player does nothing. (Launches, but gives no visual indication of being launched). Also, can it integrate into Firefox? I really hate Quicktime in Firefox. First, you can't go full screen in videos. And when I went to watch the X3 trailer on Apple's site, they have some "click here to play" thing so I can't download the .mov file and play in fullscreen in Windows Media Player/Media Player Classic/whatever. Pro won't let you go fullscreen from a browser either, will it? What does Apple have against playing videos fullscreen? It's in iTunes, put it into your main player like everyone else. Also, it seems Quicktime has problems with some VBR MP3s. IE, it stopes playing them 7 seconds in, while other media player play the whole thing.

Re:Only the Player is crippled, not QT itself.

[glesga_kiss]

I really hate Quicktime in Firefox. First, you can't go full screen in videos.

That's pretty much my mail dislike of Quicktime. Most of us are running at or near 1600x1200 now and any Quicktime movies in my browser are the size of a postage stamp.

At least with Real Media and Windows media you can double-click the video to get full screen. But by far the worst is the recent trend of embedding videos in Flash objects. I've not looked in to this in detail, but IMHO they probably don't have access to the video acceleration on the PC in the way other media players have. You can see the repaints in some videos as it struggles to render it. And there is no way of saving the media locally.

Wow!

[trintron]

Passing RealPlayer is a GREAT milestone.

how long

[xmodem_and_rommon]

How long has your PC been on for? I used to leave mine on 24/7, with itunes running in the background all the time. Afer 5 days, the thing was completely unusable.

Re:Standalone QuickTime Installer

[helix_r]

Apple is just SO obnoxious about this... How much freakin' harder could they make it?

Apple _is_ obnoxious about it. When I click a link to download quicktime, I expect quicktime and not itunes+quicktime.

Your google search point is baloney too. If I want to find quicktime, I would type "quicktime" in the freaking search bar-- why would I think to type "standalone" unless I read it in slashdot? Since when is quicktime taken to connote quicktime+iTunes BY DEFAULT??

Re:There are three kinds of lies

[Seanasy]

Statistics are just another way to lie....

Statistics can be used to lie, therefore every use of statistics is a lie.

Interesting reasoning. If you go to college after high school, I recommend a course or two in formal logic. It'll probably be offered by the philosophy department though you might find similar courses in mathematics or computer science.

All Hail Speex!

[jubei]

I find it amusing that several podcasters beg for money on air so that they can pay for bandwidth. Since most podcasts are talk anyway, why not use a codec designed for that use. Speex is free, open, and bandwidth efficient.

Why encode in 64 kbit when 16 would do just as well?

Re:All Hail Speex!

[Fahrenheit 450]

Yeah. After all, there are so many audio players out there that support the Speex format...

some of that it's not supposed to...

[YesIAmAScript]

I finally get what you mean by "update library" after reading other people's posts.

It doesn't work that way. You associate iTunes library with a folder. It's just not that way. My iTunes library has stuff in it from about a dozen folders. If you want something in the library, just drag it to the icon in iTunes. No, it won't automatically pick up your torrents you downloaded into a folder, I guess it's just not designed to.

I do say I wish thye'd concentrate on adding features for the customer and not the store/labels though.

What is this "no shortcut keys" thing people say". I can use both ctrl-key shortcut and alt-key shortcuts (and command-key shortcuts on Mac). What am I missing?

Re:some of that it's not supposed to...

[ZzzzSleep]

Quoth YesIAmAScript

What is this "no shortcut keys" thing people say". I can use both ctrl-key shortcut and alt-key shortcuts (and command-key shortcuts on Mac). What am I missing?

I run iTunes on Windows and I don't see any global shortcut keys that I can use without giving iTunes keyboard focus. If they do exist, could you please point out to me where to find them?

Realplayer?

[theJML]

People still use Real Player? I honestly haven't used real player in YEARS! I thought it had gone by the wayside. Last time I used it was in the G2 days and it wasn't the best video quality. I technically have it sort of installed, if i needed to use it, Xine has all the plugin's for real player codecs, so I'd just use that, but again, I haven't seen any content for it in a while that isn't also available in much higher quality WMV or MOV streams. Honestly, how many people use RMs anymore?

What's RealPlayer

[PhYrE2k2]

What the hell is Realplayer? Oh! You mean that company that had a very brief up on Internet media a good 10 years ago and then lost it due to poor licensing, bloating their player beyond belief, privacy disputes, and restrictive supplier arrangements. Got it. They even still around?
-M

Quicktime beats iTunes

[zeketp]

It is impossible for iTunes to be more used than Quicktime, because iTunes is built on top of Quicktime. So, it is only logical that Quicktime is more used than iTunes, since it is used standalone and with other apps too.

RTA

[jscotta44]

Read the article before posting (or nag the editors for better summaries. They are talking about the stand-alone QuickTime Player and not the underlying QuickTime frameworks.

"What the hell is Speex?" say manufacturers

[tepples]

Since most podcasts are talk anyway, why not use a codec designed for that use. Speex is free, open, and bandwidth efficient.

Because most handheld music players know nothing about Speex audio and their jukebox software does not allow automagical transcoding from Speex to a supported format.

Re:WMP still No 1 and growing but slower than iTun

[killjoe]

Linux prevented MS from leveraging their desktop monopoly to gain a monopoly on servers.

Apple prevented MS from leveraging their desktop monopoly to gain a monopoly on media players (and DRM).

MS failed miserably on their own when attempting a monopoly on mobile phones by stabbing their partners in the back (I guess they couldn't help themselves).

It still remains to be seen if firefox, openoffice, linux etc will be able to break monopolies MS already has in place. lets all hope so for the good of mankind.

Re:Standalone QuickTime Installer

[ArizonaJer]

I say "hear, hear" to this.

Just as Real used to mislead users through deceptive graphics and an intentionally obscured, minimized link to its free player, Apple is doing its best to pretend the standalone version of QuickTime doesn't exist.

I've been using QuickTime for years and actually prefer it as a format for Web delivery of video, but I was considering dumping it because I too thought there was no sans iTunes option anymore.

Good for library organization

[kitzilla]

I'll chime in with the rest of these guys: iTunes is a handy platform for organizing your music, videos, and PDF documents.

I don't own an iPod, but I'm a heavy iTunes user (Mac platform). It handles my music library -- which is about 4,000 titles right now -- with good speed and grace, even though most of my music is mostly encoded in Apple's expansive Lossless format. It's really easy to browse your collection and build custom playlists.

iTunes handles videos in the same way it organizes music. I'm not aware of an easier way to browse a video collection.

If you like podcasts, iTunes makes it easy to find and subscribe your favorites.

iTunes has built-in CD burning, handles streaming audio, and generally functions as a media hub. It's pretty useful, and it's free. Enjoy.

Ohhh...

[YesIAmAScript]

You mean keys that work when iTunes isn't the frontmost app?

I didn't know that was even possible. That explains why I didn't understand what was going on.

Is it common for applications to have this?

Re:Ohhh...

[ZzzzSleep]

Quoth YesIAmAScript

You mean keys that work when iTunes isn't the frontmost app?
I didn't know that was even possible. That explains why I didn't understand what was going on.
Is it common for applications to have this?

Well, I don't know if it's common, but WinAmp has this. Once you get used to it, it's very hard to go back. If I'm listening to music and coding when the phone rings, it is much easier to press WIN + 3 instead of switching to iTunes/WinAmp/whatever and pressing pause.