Joomla's Project Director Talks 1.1

daria42 writes "It's been a hectic six months for the Joomla open-source CMS since its split from the Mambo project, but according to this interview with project director Andrew Eddie there are even faster times ahead. Next week Joomla will make its formal debut at LinuxWorld Expo in Boston, with the milestone Joomla 1.1 release due towards the end of April. As Mambo and Joomla continue to diverge, Eddie says, users and developers will be forced to declare their colours and pick one or the other for production sites."

Comments

Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[OlivierB]

Ah yes that's right, Salshdotters need to always use Wikipedia as reference guide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joomla

Re:Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[PFI_Optix]

Or you could do what I did and go to joomla.org. With most Linux projects that get /. postings, name.org works.

The more you know.

Re:Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[myspys]

or you could read the summary?

"Joomla open-source CMS"

Re:Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[Bromskloss]

or you could read the summary? "Joomla open-source CMS"

Which would then lead you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMS.

Re:Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[OlivierB]

Silly me.
CMS is obviously the acronym I am most familiar with.

Re:Sounds cool but wtf is Joomla?

[isorox]

Which would then lead you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMS

Which would give some facinating insight into the Calexico Mission School and Canadian Mathematical Society, and maybe even Chronic mountain sickness or Conversational Monitor System.

A better link would be
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joomla

YACMS

[Anonymous Coward]

yet another CMS, add it to the list only 548 to choose from, so dont let anyone tell you OSS doesnt give you a choice

Re:YACMS

[mfh]

Yes, even I, at one time, coded my own CMS. Anyone can do it! Yet I would like to see cleaner code from all CMS projects, rather than more features. Benefits, not features, are the true test of a CMS. I put my CMS on hiatus to explore better ways of offering beneifts, because feature creep was killing my spare time!

I've looked at Joomla and Mambo, yet I couldn't really tell the difference, until you posted that link!

Check it out... Mambo requires root access and shell access. The benefit of not requiring either makes Joomla the easiest choice -- not to mention Captcha. Joomla would have to split from Mambo -- just for the security changes. Thanks for that URL!

Re:YACMS

[atomic777]

Moreover, this is a fork of yet another cms: FOYACMS. I like the ring of that.. FOYACMS. Maybe this should be the new name!

Having said that, I think people interested in a CMS for personal or small business use should look into Joomla. It is very easy to administer and install, provides a lot of flexibility in layout and content and has a lot of community support.

Re:YACMS

[hey!]

Well, there's mindshare I guess. A lot of people use Mambo and contribute products and themes for it. That's huge for most potential users.

After experimenting with it, I'd say it's biggest drawback is a lack of a decent security model. Maintaining a seperate user database is bad enough, but the security model is primitive beyond belief. It doesn't have ACLs, or even anything approaching the old Unix groups. This means its not only difficult to manage Mambo in the context of other network services you might provide, it's a PITA to manage multiple services within Mambo.

I'm looking at Drupal now as a replacement.

Re:YACMS

[hotdiggitydawg]

I'm sure I'm not the first to ask, but why the hell do we need 548 different CMSs? At what point should developers stop thinking "How about I write yet another sub-standard CMS all by myself" and start thinking "well this one here does 80% of what I want, how about I contribute to it and write the final 20% myself, and improve it overall"?

I daresay we are well past that point, wherever it is. Time for some quality over quantity people.

Re:YACMS

[Illbay]

I dunno. Most "forks" of this kind seem to have a "winner" and a "loser." The winner continues, and the loser, if not dead, lies mortally wounded.

Example I can think of would be XFree86 (the loser) and X.org (the winner).

Re:YACMS

[WiFiBro]

Step into any OS development team and you'll soon find out why people fork.

Re:YACMS

[hotdiggitydawg]

Forks alone can't explain 548 different CMSs. Neither can platforms or languages.

Choice is a good thing, don't get me wrong - but there comes a point where the choices are so many that the signal-to-noise ratio becomes a barrier in its own right.

Re:huh?

[switchfutguy]

it's pretty well the best content management system for the web...and it's *free* thank you open source

Flurbal

[courtarro]

When Smilnar director James Smith presented at the annual HARVL conference, he introduced that the Smilnar project would be joining the Yarbel group to create a new product code-named "Woolpun". Critics of the merger cite problems with Smilnar's compatibility problems with other Romolad systems, but Smith had some choice words for them: "Stewfoo"

Re:Flurbal

[Cheerio Boy]

Dead Monkeys are to split up again, according to their manager, Lefty Goldblatt. They've been in the business now ten years, nine as other groups. Originally the Dead Salmon, they became for a while, Trout. Then Fried Trout, then Poached Trout In A White Wine Sauce, and finally, Herring. Splitting up for nearly a month, the re-formed as Red Herring, which became Dead Herring for a while, and then Dead Loss, which reflected the current state of the group. Splitting up again to get their heads together, they reformed a fortnight later as Heads Together, a tight little name which lasted them through a difficult period when their drummer was suspected of suffering from death. It turned out to be only a rumor and they became Dead Together, then Dead Gear, which lead to Dead Donkeys, Lead Donkeys, and the inevitable split up. After nearly ten days, they reformed again as Sole Manier, then Dead Sole, Rock Cod, Turbot, Haddock, White Baith, the Places, Fish, Bream, Mackerel, Salmon, Poached Salmon, Poached Salmon In A White Wine Sauce, Salmon-monia, and Helen Shapiro. This last name, their favorite, had to be dropped following an injunction and they split up again. When they reformed after a recordbreaking two days, they ditched the fishy references and became Dead Monkeys, a name which they stuck with for the rest of their careers. Now, a fortnight later, they've finally split up.

Re:Flurbal

[Hard_Code]

You Slashdot granfaloons just worships the wampeter of technology. It's all foma.

Re:Flurbal

[red_dragon]

Did you just step out of an IKEA store?

What?

[wheany]

You can't just make up words and acronyms and post it on the front page.

more info pls

[minus_273]

This is right next to where I work and we use joomla on the company portal. Anyone have more info on when this will be presented? I cant find any information on the convention website:
http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/events/12BOS 06A/SN919567

and the link is slashdotted...
Apparently exhibits and keynotes are free.

http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/register///C C60804

Re:more info pls

[neersign]

Apparently exhibits and keynotes are free.

not only free, but open source under the GPL

Re:more info pls

[mitchy]

We have a booth in the .Org Pavilion, so you will find me, Andy Miller, and Louis Landry there. Also, interesting to you might be that we are presenting the new API to the BostonPHP group (www.bostonphp.org) on Monday night.

The expo is not free IIRC, although we will have some expo passes for the BostonPHP presentation.

If you are in the Boston area, feel free to come by and say hello. We're friendly to other CMS projects as well, as (for example) we had our lead (Andrew) wearing a Drupal tshirt in the London LinuxWorld last year :-)

Re:So what's the dif ?

[Viol8]

"some lame coder wants to make some useless changes "

And now , the history of OpenBSD....

Re:CMSs - solutions looking for problems...

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried, but there isn't a -1 Clueless option. Anyone who thinks being able to move files around directories is a reasonable substitute for a full blown CMS in all cases needs their attitude readjusting.

When it IS released...

[n00tz]

You'll be able to test it out at OpenSourceCMS.com

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[u16084]

This will run on IIS also...

User friendly?

[rueger]

All well and good, but the real step needed for OSS CMS is to create one that an average user can administer. By "average" I mean anyone who isn't a hard core code geek. The kind of person who is comfortable installing these systems to their server, but who is more interested in tweaking the look and adding content than spending hours figuring out the arcane thinking of the people who wrote the code.

I've tried Joomla, as well as few other top rated CMS, and found all of them pretty much imcomprehensible. I'm sure that there is some underlying logic to the Administration of each of these systems, but I have failed to find it. Terminology, functionality, it all cries out for testing by real users.

Blog software like Wordpress has managed to make Administration nice, understandable, and constantly improving, so why can't CMS like Joomla do the same?

And of course, they really do need some real documentation, not half baked wikis and forums.

Re:User friendly?

[ukpyr]

Actual CMS software has a horridly large scope to deal with. Blog software is, I don't know, 10% as complex? (To pick a number out of the air)

Re:User friendly?

[Kjella]

Well, the issue with CMSes that I've tried is that they give you pretty much a) an empty canvas and b) a few half-assed templates. Everybody seems to want to do their own thing with it, which never ever seems to fit into any template. Basicly, you have all the wierdness of web design combined with all the wierdness of how people want things to hang together. My impression of blogs is that people aren't too concerned if the templates look decent, if you can just replace the look. Well, people want much more free-form with CMS, which makes it that much harder to make any kind of skinning possible. Good luck on it, I'm glad I don't work with CMS systems anymore.

Re:User friendly?

[ukpyr]

Hint: For most usage in enviroments where a CMS is helpfull, the "empty canvas" is the only reasonable choice. Most problems with CMS systems are when people don't really need them and try to force them onto their process.

Re:User friendly?

[dubiousmike]

One main problem is that open source projects that are meant for the average person need an average person as a mian contributor to UI and functionality.

That said CMS do a lot so there will always be a lot of stuff int he admin interface. If you want something easy with great documentation, then pay for it. This way the company you are paying can afford to make it easier to use.

Or just pay one of the developers of the CMS to set it all up for you. I am sure they would love to get some cash as a result of their efforts and who better to customize it for you.

Re:User friendly?

[Fantomman]

Exactly! I'm speaking from personal experience. I thought I'd design a "front door" to my website using Joomla where my blog is the "family room" and my forum the "living room" (or whatever analogy works).

Let me just say this: Joomla or any CMS requires loads of content to make it worth your while. If you have a blog, and it's not overflowing with info and links, there is probably no reason for a CMS. If you aren't trying to create a community around your products, services or expertise, a CMS isn't for you. (CMS requires content....Surprise!)

(Personal note: I removed Joomla from my site until I can justify my time with it. If it doesn't make my life easier, I'm not interested in the technology.)

Re:User friendly?

[water-and-sewer]

I don't buy that excuse at all. I purchased a domain that came with the Cpanel and Fantastico script, and installing Joomla was a piece of cake that involved nothing more than supplying a name and password and choosing the root directory. The folks that make Fantastico are geniuses. Installing Joomla was no harder than opening a Gmail mail account, and using Joomla since then is as easy as clicking on big colorful buttons.

Re:User friendly?

[dubiousmike]

Wordpress has about 2 percent of the functionality of most CMS. So how would you propose to dumb down administration by 98 percent?

Looking forward to 1.1....

[joeygb]

I've been using Joomla for a while now and it is definitely the way to go in the Mambo vs. Joomla decision. Joomla is really great for personal sites because of the vast number of themes/modules/plugins/etc. out there. The only problem is that a lot of these 3rd party components are far from being a stable, polished final product. I think that if Joomla wants to be used more in the business world then it probably has a lot of work to do, but for less "mission critical" uses Joomla is the way to go. I think that Joomla could learn a lot from another big open source CMS, Drupal, when it comes to building a CMS for business uses.

As an aside, is it required that all CMSs have ridiculous names?

Re:Looking forward to 1.1....

[mitchy]

Regarding the needs for "mission critical" buzzword compliance, we hope you will see the huge changes we have made to the API (and underlying core systems) to make it easier for developers to make sophisticated applications, and quickly. That has always been a benefit of Joomla, and the next release will really open up a lot of doors and provide a lot of additional tools for developers. You could reasonably say that the Joomla CMS was rewritten with the Joomla Framework.

As an aside, is it required that all CMSs have ridiculous names?

First, come up with a name for your CMS. It must be original, easy to remember, and sound good in 142 languages.

Now, this name also must have a TLD available, otherwise there's no value in the name because the TLD will always point to someone else's website.

Not only was everything in english taken, but most nice-sounding meaningful words in Swahili. So the name Joomla (despite being a sound I make when I fall down the stairs) was much better than what was available at the time. So what was available?

• www.gilflapsnatwabble.org
• www.hyposqueelygackumoid.org
• www.stickumscumdiddlywhop.org
• www.gooberflasm.org

...and so on. So the alternatives were not that attractive, give us a break man!

Re:Looking forward to 1.1....

[in4mation]

Concerning the name. I don't know if it is a coincindence, but "joomla" in Arabic means "sentence".

Re:Looking forward to 1.1....

[GuyRCook]

I am also a former Mambo, now Joomla CMS user and really looking forward to the 1.1 version. http://www.justforkitsap.com/ is the "Joomla Powered" effort thus far.

It may seem like a bad name, but it isn't

[jeffimix]

Oh no, Joomla, what a weird name! ... Except that Gimp or Apache make me think of a bondage loving dude in Pulp Fiction and an Indian ('Indian' speaking of bad naming)

Re:It may seem like a bad name, but it isn't

[n00tz]

'Native $country' is typically a more logically correct (not to mention politically correct) naming.

...or you could always call them savages ;-)
/17th-century

Re:It may seem like a bad name, but it isn't

[jeffimix]

But would it be Native American? Native United States of American or Native Cherokee?

Re:It may seem like a bad name, but it isn't

[killjoe]

I know this is a familiar dig (ha ha look at those stooopid open source developers, they don't have the brains to name their project novell, or exxon or soething) but the reality is that all the english words are already owned by corporations. You can't name your product anything sensible because all the words are owned and you will get sued.

Should the open source developers risk getting sued for you? Just to give you a name you are more likely to approve of?

There is a solution though. You and people who think like you can put together a fund and hire lawyers. You can promise open source people that you will defend them if a corporation sues them for using a name that sounds vaguely like a product they made 50 years ago. You can then also lobby congress to make owning of common english words (like windows, word, money, or excel) illegal and strip those rights away from the companies that claim them.

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[filesiteguy]

Actually Linux has taken off. In spite of the overwhelming presence of Microshaft and their unethical staff.

In any case, Joomla or Mamboo or Xoops or PostNuke or Invision or PHPbb have really nothing to do with Linux per se. I've run several of these under Win2K just fine.

Remember: Friends don't let friends use Windows(tm).

Re:So what's the dif ?

[c6gunner]

From what I can tell, Joomla is designed to be much more modular.

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[aug24]

Yeah, cos just looking at my Program menu here "Excel", "Access", "Powerpoint", "Nero", "Real", "Rational Rose", "Acrobat" are all so intuitive.

J.

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[ErisCalmsme]

They actually had a contest in their forums to choose a name. Also, you'll never find Joomla! in a linux app menu, it's a CMS, it runs in a web browser. Lastly, this isn't just a linux story, Joomla! (and Mambo for that matter) runs perfectly on BSD :)

Re:Too much negative press

[cyberkreiger]

It's written in PHP, so it's to be expected.

Re:So what's the dif ?

[smbarbour]

It really simple. Joomla has all of the developers. Therefore, Joomla continues to improve.

Mambo might have some developers, but they are not the ones who wrote it in the first place.

Disclaimer: I've never used either product (nor do I have my own website). I speak only of what I've heard.

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[tpgp]

Seriously, wtf with the naming guys. You think someone surfing through a linux app menu would have any idea what tasks these apps perform? I sure don't...

Sorry.

You're wrong.

1) Joomla isn't going to be in an application menu - its a CMS, you access it through your web browser.

2) Tell me from the following list which are CMSs and which are not: Open Text, Vignette, Hummingbird, Interwoven, Tower Technology, Hyland

Give up? Answer is all of them. And they're making millions. They don't care about your microsoft-has-no-imagination-so-noone-else-should views and neither should the joomla project leaders.

Useful CMS comparisons?

[D3]

Any /.ers know of any useful comparisons between the various CMS systems out there? I don't just want a list of features but an actual comparison with ease-of-use, etc. I need to use something for my personal site.

Re:Useful CMS comparisons?

[wandazulu]

Here you go

Re:Useful CMS comparisons?

[D3]

Excellent! Thanks!

This made frontpage?

[gorbachev]

The article didn't say anything about new features, and was just a fluff piece. The last paragraph had a one sentence blurp about "more object-oriented features", but that was it.

Re:This made frontpage?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

It's well known that software projects "more object-oriented features" have better synergy to help break out of the paradigm.

What?!? Not user friendly!?

[flithm]

Are you kidding me? Joomla and its counterpart have to be the easiest to use CMS software ever designed!

Yes it can look a little daunting, but as another poster has pointed out... CMSes are infinitely more complex than a blog. What are you thinking? A CMS with an interface as simple as Wordpress would be absolutely uselss as a CMS. Basically... it'd be a blog :).

Quit yer whining. Seriously. If you can't admin a CMS then you have no right in even bothering to try. And complaining about the complexity of the interface is ludicrous.

That's like complaining about the complexity of AutoCAD, or Lightwave. "Waa this is too hard, it should be easier!" Uhh no it shouldn't. It's already really very good, (yes there's always room for improvement), but the truth of the matter is: it's just that you don't have the required knowledge, and you're too much of a whining complainer to spend the 30 minutes it would take playing with the system in order to fully comprehend it.

And just to get something straight. No I'm not saying Joomla is anywhere close to being as comples as Lightwave or AutoCAD.

Re:What?!? Not user friendly!?

[m0llusk]

After just evaluating Joomla alongside e107 I found Joomla took at least twice as long for every part of set up. This is a new project and they should smooth things out, but this is an important part of any CMS product and Joomla is way behind in this. The easy browser install is likely not to work for many users. Building up the basic database user and tables is confusing when it should be foolproof and automatic. Subtle problems with the configuration cause bizarre errors instead of helpful warnings. Lots of cool machinery is there, but the overall smoothness of installing and setting up Joomla is behind most open CMS utilities and way behind leaders in this space such as e107 and Drupal. Very cool that they are opening things up and going for it, though.

recommendation for CMS w/o database server?

[penguin-collective]

Does anybody have a recommendation for a CMS similar to Joomla or Drupal that doesn't require a separate database server? Something that gets by with either the file system or SQLite? WYSIWYG content creation is a must in this application, so Wikis aren't an option.

Re:recommendation for CMS w/o database server?

[bone_idol]

checkout Vanilla Blog It uses the php plain-text database system, using the Txt-DB-API program. That means the blog is totally portable and needs no additional database server (unlike most other popular blogging systems).

Re:recommendation for CMS w/o database server?

[ddg412]

I've found CityDesk to be very easy to use. You run the application on your PC (Windows only). It generates your website, and you just upload it. It has a WYSIWYG editor, although it's a little weak. There's a fully functional free version to try.

Re:recommendation for CMS w/o database server?

[killjoe]

Plone.

Really all those people writing yet-aother-cms-system should just stop and start using plone.

Re:i like joomla

[cronostitan]

I can only second that. Joomla is an awesome CMS.
I like it because it stands out of the crowd with its features meaning.

- Good template engine - the templates can look very different - you don't see at first glance that it is Joomla (unlike Postnuke)
- Very easy component plug-in structure - You want to use a new feature? No problem ..just uploed the zipped component packed into joomal and it will isntall itself.
- Few bugs
- Lots of support and a big communiy.

This is joomla:

http://www.kiez-clan.de/

This is joomla:

http://www.phpsurveyor.org/

This is joomla:

http://www.joomlademo.de/index.php?mos_change_temp late=netweb

It's a good name, I like it

[handy_vandal]

I like the name "Joomla".

It's got the virtues you mention (available, memorable, meaningful).

Plus, I just like it, for reasons that aren't reasons because I can't explain them.

-kgj

Re:It's a good name, I like it

[C. E. Sum]

Oh, I like it too.. I just wish my boss could pronounce is consistantly:

Joolala? Joomler? Jomla? ARGH!

Re:And people wonder why linux doesn't take off

[An Onerous Coward]

You're right. We should all follow Microsoft Marketing Strategies. They make everything clear.

User Friendly is Relative

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

All well and good, but the real step needed for OSS CMS is to create one that an average user can administer.

I think this is only true for the "average" non-professional fan site or personal blog / project.

When thinking of an "enterprise grade" CMS that a commercial site might use, where there are complex content management problems that involve complicated taxonomy and multi users and editors, it can be expected that the administration is going to be complex as well. This is not to say that the admins of such a site should know code (though it might help), but it just a whole different level of management from someone's *nuke site or WordPress blog or whatever...

Joomla and Mambo

[Mutiny32]

Yes, the current Joomla is based largely on Mambo, that's because they recently split. But from what I understand, Joomla 1.1 (I'm hearing it will actually be called 1.5) will have a new underlying structure that makes everything more uniform and easier to use, as well as making less problems for third parties and their components/modules. What I also like about Joomla over Mambo is that Mambo releases patches maybe once every four months and just for a security issue. Joomla releases patches to fix minor bugs and security issues more on a monthly basis, which, in my eyes, is good because it shows they're listening and are constantly galvanizing their product, not just letting it stagnate.

Mambo, not Joomla

[Pliep]

Joomla is awesome and I hope it will continue to grow;. However I always advise my clients to use Mambo (4.5.1 even) simply because Mambo and Joomla (> 4.5.1) have compatibility problems with Safari and most of my clients are Safari users.

The problem is that buttons like Save / Cancel / etc. do not work when editing an article either in the front-end or the back end. Sometimes even in FireFox they fail. And no, IE is not an option. All these buttons work fine in any browser in Mambo versions right up to 4.5.1.

Re:So what's the dif ?

[DVant]

Thats not true at all.
Mambo still has heaps of developers (given the activity I have seen on the forge).
The Joomla crew did not write the original code. In fact, until they forked off, none
of them really contributed that much to the overall development.

Don't flame me. Go look at what changed in the source over time.

Really horrible analogy...

[technoextreme]

I know this is a familiar dig (ha ha look at those stooopid open source developers, they don't have the brains to name their project novell, or exxon or soething) but the reality is that all the english words are already owned by corporations. You can't name your product anything sensible because all the words are owned and you will get sued.

Nice analogy in your attempt to say that all the major corporations own these words but Exxon isn't a word. Not to mention the fact that your analogy tends to break down when you have iRobot the book and iRobot the company.

Re:Really horrible analogy...

[killjoe]

"Nice analogy in your attempt to say that all the major corporations own these words but Exxon isn't a word."

Looks like it went right over your head there. Exxon isn't a word, neither is joomla, novell, ebay, nissan or whatever. My point is that you guys are always bitching about open source names without realzing that most company and product names are not words either. Why? Because virtually all words are owned by somebody or another. That's why there is the nissan maxima and the BMW X5.

"Not to mention the fact that your analogy tends to break down when you have iRobot the book and iRobot the company."

Only because nobody has bothered to sue yet. Look at apple records and Apple computers. They are on their second suit already.

Re:huh?

[X0563511]

What is a content management system, and why should I care?

Seriously, i know that was trollish but what is the advantage of a CMS over intelligently organized files, directories, and links?

Re:huh?

[switchfutguy]

a content management system makes life easier for non-geeks. so say you have a secretary who wants to update a website, you setup joomla, and then they can login and change the content on the pages of the website within a web browser. you have a wysiwyg editor which is much like word (something they are used to) and all the have to know how to do is type. no coding, less of a headache for you.

test it out here and see what you think: http://opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=content& task=view&id=2097&Itemid=159/

It's not a made up word, it's just not English

[Neuticle]

     Both Joomla and Mambo are Swahili words, mambo being a greeting that roughly translates to an informal "how are you" and jumla means "together".

Anyhow, that makes jumla or joomla a good name for a CMS; "together" certainly makes more sense than "hey what's up?". I'm not sure why it's anglicised with two OOs, since in Swahili that makes a long "oh" sound, but maybe there already is a project spelled jumla... which would just go to show how hard it is to find a name for a project these days (see Phoenix->Firebird->Firefox).

/Forgive the errors, haven't written much English for 6 months
//Nipo Dar es Salaam
///Nafundisha Newala Day

Re:CMSs - solutions looking for problems...

[Viol8]

If you need to manage data us an RDBMS.

CMSs are for idiots.

Re:So what's the dif ?

[billcopc]

That brings me back to my original statement: why fork if both are pursuing similar goals ? Integrate each others' differences and wherever two modules collide, let the users choose which one they prefer on a per-user basis.

Hell, I see KDE vs Gnome the same way. If we could have one grand unified desktop that handles every app and allows you to mix & match UI features, everyone would be happy and development could be greatly simplified. It seems like for every OSS project, there exists one or more analogs that accomplish the exact same thing, only with a different API or one extra feature that wasn't really needed in the first place. Freedom of choice is nice, as long as there's a justifiable reason for that choice.

Re:So what's the dif ?

[IbnSlash]

"Look at the source code over time?" Not eactly the most straightforward proof ever given to an erroneous statement.

So pardon me if I don't take your word for it.

Re:So what's the dif ?

[smbarbour]

The reason for the fork was due to the company that sponsored Mambo (in the form of buying the developers out, while promising to keep it open-source) started to handle the project in the "evil" corporate ways, in a sense, overruling the decisions of the steering committee. The developers were not happy with that, and thus, forked the project. I agree with the KDE vs Gnome argument, although I didn't think it really mattered much as long as you had both installed. I don't use Linux on an everyday basis though...

Re:So what's the dif ?

[billcopc]

Ahh then I whole-heartedly approve the birth of Joomla for that IS a good reason to fork.

And yes well, KDE vs Gnome is the same for me, I have both and don't really care which is which, as long as I can get my work done and have pretty desktops :)