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Linspire CEO dispels Linspire Linux Myths
An anonymous reader writes "Chances are that you think Linspire lets you run Windows applications, that you have to run it as root, and that it's really not quite a proper Linux. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. At LinuxWorld in Boston this week, CEO Kevin Carmony explained what Linspire Linux is, and isn't all about. Carmony said that people are still getting these things wrong. Yes, in the beginning, Linspire had the goal of letting Linux users run Windows applications with WINE, but it dropped that theme years ago. As for requiring you to run as root, that was, Carmony said, only the case with an early alpha release that was never put in the public's hands. As for not being a real Linux, that's nonsense, too."
...By default. When you install Linspire, it sets you up as root by default. I know this because I supported it from Lindows 4 to Linspire Five-Oh. You have to go and manually add a user account, should you want one. That said, it is actually a lot more secure than people make out. There _is_ a lot of FUD about Linspire. For grannies and people who can't be bothered with technical things (including me, sometimes - I just want things that work) it's great.
I don't think anybody ever thought it wasn't linux, just that it was a CRAPPY version of linux. I also don't think too many people thought about linspire in terms of OS, more in terms of questionable politics.
Aren't they getting a bit ahead of themselves trying to dispel 'common myths' about Linspire when the vast majority of people have no idea what it is, let alone whether its main goal is to run Windows applications?
But here's the important thing. There's, like, ninety-six linux distributions. I already know that Ubuntu is friendly when you don't want to spend a lot of time configuring things, and Redhat is friendly to people in suits. But why the heck should I care about this one, Linspire? What, if anything, differentiates it from the other ninety-four linux distributions I don't personally have a use for at the present time? Because if there isn't a good answer to that question, it needs to go get back at the end of the line.
It strikes me as somewhat... odd. Especially coming from a CEO.
Maybe someone can put my vague feeling into words.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Many complaints I hear about moving over to unix like systems is the filesystem hierarchy. I think for a really easy-for-noobs and for grabbing windows users, I'd like to see a patched distro where /dev, /proc, /sys etc are moved to (for example) /system. Put them all together and move them where the users knows they're not gonna need to go into.
Could even have a chrooted dir with mount --binds to make a seperate namespace for unpatched/closed source apps.
We really could do with tidying the root. Yes it breaks compatibility with unpatched software, but as it is breaks compatibility with users.
(let the flaming commense)
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
My impression is that Lindows/Linspire has always been viewed as outside the world of "real Linux" because:
... off.
1) None of the ultra-user-friendly commercial distros have ever really caught on with the Linux enthusiast community.
2) Linspire's business plan has alwasy been based on charging users for installing sofware, something that is free everywhere else in the Linux world.
3) As #2 illustrates, there's always been something sleazy about Linspire. They appeared, making ludicrous claims about Windows compatability, stepping on Microsoft's trademark while prominently advertising rebadged KDE apps as their own, and they've been like that ever since. They may not do anything wrong but it's always
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I have read in the past some of this guy posts at Ubuntu forums (yes he sometimes open/reply threads there) and let me say he raises some good questions in several areas, in general i would say he manages to perfectly justify making a distro for dumb/proprietary human beings and recognizing Linspire is not a perfect distro ,neither one
destined to every single person out there.
Kudos for him at least for being modest and realistic.
Off course i will never use Linspire , Ubuntu plus a extra repos to the sources.list works fine for me.
def greetings(x): return {'friend': 'Howdy', 'enemy': 'Dye [sic]'}.get(x, 'g0 4w4y, l4m0r')
"Some people seem to think that Linux is a secret club, where you have to pay your dues before you can learn the secret handshake and run it."
Dude, dont even mention the Secret Shake! It's supposed to be a secret.
didn't like lindows at all... they reviewed the Walmart Lindows pcs. If you have a CR subscription (or know someone who does) it's a good article to read from the standpoint of understanding what still stands in the way of mainstream acceptance of these distros.
is not usability or hardware support or people having trouble installing linux. The big problem that somehow noone really figures is the lack of applications. The lack of commercial applications, especially.
There are a lot of kinds of applications where OpenSource works great. "Standard" stuff like mail clients etc. But the more specific an application gets the more it is likely that it is commerically developed. Photoshop, Games, Autocad, Dreamweaver etc. etc. And even then there are some issues concerning application deployment, especially if the source is not available...
Seriously, Carmony really seems like a decent guy. Listen to him, you'll see what I mean. The Slashdot smart asses usually crap all over Linspire's quality, security, morality, business model, and so on and so on, but give the guy a chance, he's not all bad.
just the fact that they've set out to dispel these myths, the fact that they ever, in any incarnation were ever actually true, is just a sad testament to their alignment and beliefs in the community.
.deb's! seriously?
they aren't a real gnu/linux distribution because their business model and principles don't fit in with ours.
they ever thought a superuser by default setup was good? who are you?
lets repackage the apt repository and start selling
i've looked at the distribution, it looks like they've taken quite a bit of time to rebrand common applications, line openoffice and gaim, to be "linspire" applications. all that effort, or at least 95% of it should be put into doing something new and helpful for the community.. do something useful.
sheesh.
After reading TFA and reading about CNR, all I can say is... great. I had written off Linspire when I first read about it - the wine stuff that I knew was impossible and buggy... etc. But the philosophy is a good one: bring Linnux under the hood on a polished, housewife/housewide audience - not just the hackers.
I wish him all the best. Now I'll get back to trying to my dkpg-reconfigure and apt-get'ing the latest Ruby Gem from unstable while not upgrading my Standord C libs.
Something they don't mention in that article:
"Linspire's chief technical officer, Tom Welch, agreed that his company would definitely consider DRM."
http://news.com.com/DRM%20key%20to%20Linuxs%20cons umer%20success/2100-7344_3-6058790.html?tag=techdi rt
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
I wish I had points, that's awesome :)
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
In reality, no OS has achieved the status of so simple yet so useful that grandma/sister/computer-novice can use without assistance.
... sort of like dealing with Windows sometimes.
I have some experience being the family IT support guy and got so sick of cleaning our viruses, spyware and other junk from my sister's computer that I bough her a computer with Linspire 4 on it thinking that it was the easiest Linux for her to adapt to. In the end, I can't say that it was any better or worse than any other distro. The Click-N-Run concept is a good one but it is was very poorly executed. It certainly *did* encourage users to run as root and was a PITA to set up as a multi-user system.
However, when things went wrong (as they do with any OS/Distro/computerized thing), I found that Linspire did things differently enough that it was very difficult to troubleshoot the problem, find help online and you ended up fighting with a system that tried to second guess you with automated scripts
In the end I switched her to another distro (Ubuntu) and now have just as many problems but I don't have to pay a subscription fee and, if I don't know the answer myself, I can find answers online extremely quickly since it doesn't deviate too far from upstream.
So all the power to Linspire in achieving that "easy enough for a novice to use" status but since we're not there yet, I would stick with a more maintainable distro like Ubuntu or Fedora Core.
People on Slashdot often speak of Linux as if it's a finite resource: that if Linspire takes off, it must mean distributions like Slackware or Debian or Gentoo are losing users. That's not true at all. Linspire's target market is a niche previously untapped (not even by Ubuntu or short-lived Caldera) of people who just want a workstation with a web browser, a word processor, a calculator and maybe solitaire. All the power to to Linspire for doing this. There's room in the Linux world for this. I think they're doing a useful thing, and if they come up with some good, non-crippling ideas that improve usability, perhaps other distros will benefit from their innovation one day too.
It was only a short time ago that Michael Robertson, CEO of Linspire said "I defy anybody to tell me why is it more secure to not run as root. Nobody really has a good answer. They say 'oh, yeah, it is!', but it really isn't."
I installed it on my wife's computer and my best friends,(both windows zealots), because they were constantly asking me to clean their computers. They would not use the tools they were given to work safely so... Linspire, and no more issues. I used wine to install IE for the wife because her job requires her to use IE only sites, other than that, it's all linux. they uses firefox at work, and the differences between OOO2 and ms office threw them at first but after a few, we do that this way...(kind of like going from office 95 too office 2k), they were both fine. Linspire pays it's mp3 tax and has a dvd player built into the distro so you have all the stuff they need. Plug in an HP multi-funct printer and scan, file, fax away . I don't use it because it is "behind", stable yes, but behind the bleeding/edge curve I like to stay on... :)
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
I own a copy of Linspire, I actually paid money for the 4.5 release. I wanted to try it out. They made programs that use Microsoft Windows format files like their own Media Player and iTunes type programs. They offer a lot of FOSS and Commercial Programs via the CNR (Click N' Run) program, and it also does the updates as well.
I switched distros. Linspire, while based on Debian, disables the apt-get and rpm tools. I found a way to activate them, and install a gcc compiler to compile programs etc. Only I found out the hard way that the CNR libraries are behind the apt-get and rpm libraries and it causes a problem with Linspire reporting that non-standard libraries are installed. It was a picture of a man being hung on his own underware or something. I was told that only CNR install methods are supported by tech support.
CNR is fine for the noobs, it makes getting Linspire programs as easy as clicking on them. It requires a monthly or yearly subscription though. For a noob willing to pay for access to software and doesn't require learning how to use chmod and command line tools like apt-get and rpm to install software, it is a good deal.
I switched to many distros, Debian, Unbuntu, Kanotix, Knoppix, and finally Red Hat Fedora. Red Hat Fedora is good enough for me, I learned how yum works and I am compiling programs and using rpm as well. I set up my own web server, but I have prior experience with Linux.
The whole goal of Linspire seems to be making it default on retail PCs, like at Walmart. Linspire has tried to get the cost of a PC down to $300, because Linspire does not cost any more than $50 to sell and it includes OpenOffice.org and Microsoft Windows and MS-Office can cost $300 or more of a system price.
There have been times when Linspire offered their OS free via BitTorrent via promotions.
Still I have set up friends with Red Hat Fedora because it does not require a subscription to update the OS files, and it is easy enough for them to use.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I've seen the "it's linux, but so easy to use that newbies can install it!" claim promised many, many, many times before. Rarely, if ever, have I seen it delivered on.
So I actually should believe that Linspire succeeded where Mandriva managed to just do kind of meh? Is there any way to get evidence of such?
It's brain-dead morons like this guy spreading bald-faced lies that makes it hard for any commercial linux distribution to succeed...
I don't understand when people complain about PC, and Linux in perticular as being difficult to use. Administer? maybe. Use? No.
Now, just like any parent, I would love to believe that my wife and I had so superior of genes that our offspring is simply genetically superior by a far margin than the rest of the population. We would also love to believe that our parenting skills are so much better than everyone elses that any child in our care is destined to be a genius. Unfortunatly, we also understand that that is unrealistic.
That being said... At 22 months old, I gave my son his first computer. I installed Ubuntu, and gcompris on it, and showed him the game that makes blocks disappear when he moves the mouse over them to reveal a picture of an animal. At that point, I just let him go. By his 2 year birthday (last month), he figured out how to turn the computer on, go to the 'Applications' menu, find the programs he wants to use, and navigate the programs. (Mostly gcompris).
So, while I would LOVE to believe that my offspring has both superior genes, and a superior environment to everyone else on the planet, realistically, I have to believe that anyone saying they cannot use a computer is retarded.
If you disagree, and in fact think that my 2 year old son is smarter than all these people that complain about computer difficulty, you are welcome to flame away. Maybe you will convince me of his supreame superiority. Until then, I will assume those that cannot figure out how to use Windows/Gnome/KDE are just retarded.
Oh, and if you are going to purchase Linspire, make sure you google around for a discount code. Somebody is always offering a discount code for Linspire somewhere.
Meh.
The part where it REALLY is easy is software installation. They have a system called CNR (Click and Run) which costs $20/year, but it is well worth it. You get a icon on your desktop that you can click, then browse software categories. When you find something you like, just click the install button and voila, CNR downloads it, puts an entry in the Start menus and puts an icon on the desktop. No other distro that I know of does this with such ease.
Meh.
Are you working for MS or what?
Meh.
I think that linspire fulfils a niche in the market for the people who want:
1. Something that looks like windows and is just as easy to use, but don't want all the viruses, etc.
2. Something that they feel that they can trust (I'll explain in just a bit)
Now, I personally think That ubuntu fills the first requirement for these people, but doesn't fill the second requirement for all these people in that it is a community developed OS. How do you know that it isn't something put together by a bunch of hackers meant to turn your computer into a zombie and delete you windows and all your... erm, pictures? Now, you and I know that that isn't the case, and Ubuntu is one fine linux distrobution, but people who are new to linux don't seem to understand that a shiny shrinkwrapped box doesn't always mean a good operating system. Now, these people's reasoning is that if they buy this thing called "Linux" from a respectable company like Linspire (and what a fine name, too!) that they will be safe. Hey, it even comes with a service that lets you download all sorts of software (even if it comes with a monthly fee). Now, show somebody like this Synaptic (for example), and they would say, "Hey, how could I know that these's things aren't viruses?". Good question. They might also say, "Hey, where's my start button?", "How come I can't watch these flash movies?", "How do I listen to my mp3s?". Linspire aims toward the user that just wants to send emails and play flash games and write up papers and not worry those evil bogeymans called 'viruses' and 'spyware' that he hears about all the time. And it does a fair job of it.
Having said that, I don't agree with a lot of their business practices, like not even bothering to come up with something from scratch but rather just taking Debian and putting a fancy click n' run program in there and a shiney "launch" button that takes up 1/3 the screen. (No really, it does! sort of.) They went through the KDE source code and took out every reference to KDE that they could find and put something more neutral in it's place, like replacing "Konqueror" with "Linspire file and web browser". (Note: i'm not really sure, that's just what it seemed like).
I don't think that any desktop linux will succeed until they can get it installed on OEM machines en masse. The installation is the scariest part about using linux, IMO, and if we can eliminate that part there's just a few things left to deal with, like lack of nice commercial games.
Linux, onward march to domination!
I would really love to have usable wine... It really seems like there isn't as much steam behind that project as there should be. It would be cool if some of the major OS vendors (apple, sun, redhat) started putting some resources behind that project.
Supposedly wine has pretty decent compatibility already... but making the software *run* is a bitch. The wine team needs to spend a little more time making their software easy to configure and run for common uses (video games).
With Linspire's "Click and Run" system, you are not paying for free software, you are paying a yearly fee to have access to their software which keeps an up-to-date database of many free software packages and lets you install them with a single click (meaning download, install, icon on desktop).
Meh.
The very first sneak preview of Linspire didn't have ANY way to add users, but we never released that commercially. That first sneak preview didn't have a lot of things in it! Not sure it even printed. =)
What Linspire does is during the install it has you first set up your Admin Password (root) and THEN takes you to a screen where you can add users, right during the install's install Wizard.
Kevin Carmony
CEO & President, Linspire, Inc.
Linspire installed easily, and recognized most of the hardware. We have achieved our objective, and I don't spend week-ends extirpating malware.
However, it took me three hours to install a @#$% HP P1000 printer. And I have to do it again because Linspire lost the printer after a recent upgrade.
Funny, the browser crashes regularly on Linspire. Our second 120 GB hard drive is sitting empty because I can't find the damn thing. What's Linux for "dir *.* /s"?
Plus, the developer's kit couldn't even link a "Hello World" program. And Roberts wants us to develop for him? Bah!
Slashdot entertains. Windows pays the mortgage.
For the record... I didn't set out to "set the record straight about Linspire myths." (That was just the fancy spin this reporter put on his story. =) I simply gave an address at LinuxWorld called "Desktop Linux Adoption by Mainstream Consumers." During my address I made mention to a few of the things that consumers DEMAND which Linspire provides, which then create problems for some in the Linux community. For example, we support DVD, MP3, Windows Media, Real Audio, QuickTime, Java, Flash, ATI drivers, nVidia drivers, etc. We do this because most consumers won't touch Linux without these things (heck, I wouldn't!) Most have iPods and other MP3 players and want their computer to work with them. They have DVD's and want their computer to play them. Linspire pleads guilty to supporting all of this out of the box, and for that, we're not always understood. If I really wanted to dispel myths about Linspire, I'd have started right here on Slashdot (I read more misinformation here than anywhere about all sorts of topics, not just Linspire =). Kevin Carmony CEO & President, Linspire, Inc.
Actually the DCC is quite a mess, trying to get Debian or a subset thereof LSB-conformant, with LSB beeing an even greater mess. And Debian is not a member of DCC, and not at all happy about the use of their name in that regard.
With advertisments of this kind, no wonder there is a lot of disdain around. Practically with the opening sentence, he confirmed my prejudices.
Kevin? Or is it you Mrs Carmony?
I'm an IT geek by dayy, running a 200+ system Linux shop, and *I* am interested in Linspire at home. At home, I just want to install an OS and have everything work. I mkean *everything*. It sucks when my wife wants to do something basic, and I have to go download a bunch of stuff and try to make it work with my current version of Linux.
If you're not referring to the fact that they include some proprietary software, please explain. Otherwise just realize that Linux will never* get out of cult status in the home until it includes whatever is needed to make it Just Work.
A virus that infects the user account can destroy everything that matters. It can email my private data to anybody.
:-) It certainly couldn't make a wrapper for xterm or install itself as an X input method. :-)
I'll be generous, and say it can't change $PATH or define an alias for su or sudo.
What is protected? Oh, the OS itself. I got that from a CD-ROM. I don't even need a backup for that data. Heck, if it gets trashed, I'll use the opportunity to upgrade my OS.
We don't have real security until users get the ability to easily sub-divide their accounts using the full power of SE Linux. They also need "trusted path" (look it up) for controlling this.
Coming up next... a recipe for baked trolls :-)
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
you can help yourself. there definately traps in some stuff (like the filesystem) but the hardest part is just remembering to install X11 and the dev tools.
/etc/sshd_config), log yourself in, and fast user switch out with vncserver running (and set to only accept from localhost) its a resonably secure way to use the mac remotely. run it on "display:1" (port 5901) to make it easier for her to turn it on and off to see her screen.
most of whats in there is same stuff youll find in any linux distro (or typical freebsd system) cups, samba, apache, mysql, lots of scripting languages, gdb, tcpdump etc. even vim and emacs. ipfw (the firewall) is right out of freebsd and so far it works the same too, but i havent done much with it on osx.
install fink or darwinports and youll not touch the compiler much unless you want to. i spend most of my time in os x with X11 running enlightenment in full screen with focus follows mouse, virtual desktops etc. (theres an applet called desktop manager for that in aqua too). sometimes you get a surprise, like the seq command missing, but those have always been easy to work around.
google has also found drivers where apple has not provided, but the driver situation is way behind linux here.
if your remote tech support for her, set ssh to only use keys (not passwords, see
im not saying apple is a good fit for you or your sister, just that you can help yourself. there isnt much that a typical linux distro can do that you cant on a mac, aside from the driver thing. (i still use linux and bsd more, but thats partly a hardware thing)
Linspire,is just a mercenary piece of work i.e,find a water well,hire guards to protect it,find people willing to pay to drink the water,when there are free water wells,with much better water within plain sight.
So did yo Mama raise a fool?
The reason the vast majority of users have not heard of Linspire is because the "Linux Gurus" disreguard it as "not a real Linux" or insecure.
The goal of the talk was to get the Linux community the correct info about the product (aka dispel myths) so perhaps they will start recommending its use at their place of employment or to their friends and family.
I still dislike the off-the-cuff exaggerations: If Ubuntu and Linspire have dropped "everything good about Debian", it should be easy for you to list, let's say "ten best things Linspire and Ubuntu dropped", shouldn't it?
I burned their trial cd and it didnt run on my pc. Thats all I need to know about them. If they cant even get that right im not wasting my time on it.
Robertson should immediately be distanced from everyone else in the Open Source community - Open Source, whether it's Linux apps on Linux kernels or Windows apps on Windows is about OPEN & HONEST communications with the rest of the world - Robertson is NOT honest.
Personally, I'd even go a stage further & get the GPL modified to exclude that lying, good-for-nothing, scumbag marketeer from ever even touching Open Source.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Their last version came out in March of last YEAR.....what exactly have they been doing since then? I've not heard a peep about what their next version will have in it.
http://www.pclinuxonline.com/wiki/QuickStartSynapt ic
As easy as the steps for Linspire CNR, and all at a cost of $0 per year.
Synaptic is even more of a killer application than CNR.
http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/
http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/action.html
I agree that there's a lot of unnecessary ill-will that's subconsciously and reflexively generated whenever we Linux geeks hear that some software costs money. Although Linux is predicated on software freedom ("free" software), we are too accustomed to zero-cost software ("free" software).
The quantity of quality zero-cost software is nothing short of astounding, for which I will always be grateful to the hacker community --but at the same time, it creates expectations that form a trap. We are used to leveraging our geek skills to gain certain "powers" (from a software Role-Playing-Game point of view) without having to pay, and it's almost like a return on our investment in being geeks. "You had to *buy* Photoshop?" you say to your roommate, your voice dripping with disdain. "*I* got GIMP for free!" (And then we get upset that Photoshop was pirated, of course. What's the use of being a geek if the non-geeks can get zero-cost software, too?)
But, for those of you who envision software freedom spreading throughout the world, let me ask you: where do you want the money to come from, in such a world, so that software businesses large and small can continue to flourish? Okay, I know the standard answers --payment for support, most software is within large companies, payment for reliable source of software, etc. etc.
The next question is: how do you think we should get there? After all, an "open world where there's no need for windows or gates" (tm) doesn't just pop into being; you have to make a transition. How do companies make money in a world where people will buy copies of copy-protected proprietary tax software for us$30, but not pay for zero-cost FOSS that can replace all of Microsoft Office (or even Microsoft Windows)?
In short, *should* we pay for software?
Linspire wants $20 to $50 to do C&R. Are they truly being sleazy? They're getting $$$ just to set up a server for distributing free Debian software! They're fooling people into paying money that users don't really have to pay!
And accounting company H&R Block charges for tax preparation services. How sleazy! They're getting $$$ for filling in forms you can get for free! They're fooling their customers into paying, when they can use a calculator for free!
We need to think before we bash Linspire's C&R service. They are being rewarded for filling a niche, or at least Linspire thinks so, and from our capitalist way of thinking, they should be admired. The fact that we geeks don't need C&R doesn't mean that Linspire is trying to pull a fast one, any more than we despise Barnes & Noble for trying to sell books like "Apache Security for Dummies" when *any* geek knows how easy it is to set up a chroot jail on a headless server --what a rip-off!
I'm not saying that the C&R service is perfect, and I have my own hesitations about having C&R. (I bought my own Lindows-preinstalled PC some years ago.) My main concerns are: 1) does it lock you into C&R, or will the standard Debian repositories be compatible? 2) Is the C&R software high quality (well-packaged)?
I think that Slashdot is a valuable place for discussing and criticising what's wrong with Linspire, and figuring out where we'd like Linspire to go (especially since Mr. Carmony himself seems to be participating in this discussion), but what I see instead is invalid and unnecessary bashing of C&R. I see a risk that this thread will terminate prematurely, before we can take advantage of our collective Slashdot intellect to analyze the actual situation.
Guys, the Linspire CEO is here. Wouldn't you like a chance to tell what you think to the leader of a company that might be poised to get Linux exposure in certain unique markets? If you do, there better be a bit more insight than "Linux good!" or "Linux for money bad!".
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
I bought linspire for my organization, and found it to be the biggest piece if shit. It would not even detect half the hardware and would crash everytime I started it.
There support is really pethetic, and all attepts to get anything out of them (but the brain farts from Mike) was all in vein. Their support system is more buggy than their distro (I have email trails to show that). I decided that there was no one who gave a shit at Linspire and moved to Ubuntu. My clients are very happy with it and thank me for rescueing them from an Idiot who in his own world thiks he is doing some greate service for himanity.
Michael, if I ever run into you in a trade show, I will let you have it, so be ready!!
We (most geeks out there) usually go around and say "that piece of software is bloated to death", "ICQ is bloated, get the lite version", etc, but actually Linspire is the other way around... its a distro so trimmed down that you don't have the choice to either buy their click-n-run products or try to get a compiler installed-- even if theres no compiler binaries by default.
:D "
So I guess the old Modded-Down-to-death question is quite on-topic: "Yeah but, does it run Linux?
Joke apart, I'm not sure if its a good idea to restrict the user experience THAT much. Sure, you get the advantage of controlling whats going to be installed (and what not), thus having more chances to get a stable environment (in the same way than Apple's OS, when it was on Apple hardware only, reducing the chances of crashing), but too bad if you wanted to get under the hood and customize Linspire all you wanted-- you're just stuck.
"...a generation of kids has grown up thinking Trance is the shittiest music since country and western." - Paul van Dyk
You download the install CD and there is no option anywhere for any of those things. Someone did put together a couple of scripts (EasyUbuntu is a good one) that will go out to third party update servers and download much of that, but there is no option to install that stuff with the system.
From the very page you link to:
Linux-based operating systems like Linspire are inherently safe from viruses, however you can still pass along email viruses to vulnerable Microsoft Windows-based computers. That's why we offer VirusSafe.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Guys, the Linspire CEO is here. Wouldn't you like a chance to tell what you think to the leader of a company that might be poised to get Linux exposure in certain unique markets? If you do, there better be a bit more insight than "Linux good!" or "Linux for money bad!".
I did not say that selling Linux was bad. I said that selling a computer and revealing hidden costs after the fact is bad. If these preinstalled Linspire boxes came with 1 year of free Click-n-Run and no upselling into uneeded AV software, I would have no issues with Linspire. As it is though, Linspire's business model is based upon a series of deceptions. It's simply not good business, nor good publicity for free software.
curious.. I fired up vmware and install linspire. After booting I went into the user account I created and ran CNR. As it attempted to update CNR it managed to lock up both the virtual machine (which I was running full screen) and the host machine.
After restarting machine and booting up linspire again, CNR fails to run. Pretty 1337 stuff. I can see newbies having no issue with this OS at all..
Have you hugged your penguin today?
Yes, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on WINE in those early days. We got it to run Word and Excel (Office 2000) pretty well. When we started our work with Crossover (who we contracted with to help), they weren't doing much with WINE at the time. With Linspire's funding, however, they were able to move things along quite a bit, which then became Crossover Office. Linspire early on stopped funding WINE and started funding native Linux apps (Nvu, Mozilla, Lsongs, Lphoto, Reiser FS, etc.). We figured it made more sense to pour money into providing better solutions for Linux natively than helping Linux run expensive, proprietary software from Microsoft. Kevin
CNR has screenshots and brief descriptions for most of the programs in their database. I'm not saying CNR is perfect, but it's a lot easier for the "non-computer expert" user.
Meh.
No screenshots. No customizable aisles.
Meh.
So that's where the unnetworked NT box that got DoD C2 certified went to.
Put the new shell in ~/.gorda/ and change $PATH via .bashrc to start with that directory.
/bin/sh is cool and all, but it gets you NOTHING that you don't already have. (true multi-user machines, a dying breed indeed, excepted of course)
But who cares anyway? Replacing
What computing resource do you obtain? What personal data do you obtain? Really, there is no need to crack the root account.