Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Responds To 360 Hackers
Microsoft would like to remind you that hacking your console most definitely voids your warranty. From the Eurogamer article: "Modified consoles, Microsoft added, 'will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided ... the protection of intellectual property rights is a high priority for Microsoft and our partners, one that significantly and positively impacts economic growth, technological innovation, and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.'"
Haw haw!
-Microsoft
Did some baboon actually call them for technical support after soldering in a mod chip and watching it go boom?
How ya like dat?
Does this mean they haven't been detected on Xbox live yet? Is there any news of this?
Of course it won't be warrantied...if M$ is trying to scare them now, it's a bit too late as the warranty seal on the console has already been broken. Just a scare tactic for M$, a risk that's already been calculated for the modders.
my warranty will have a hole cut out of its centre? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2C GGLG%3A2005-35%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=define%3A+voided&btnG =Search
Understand that the last thing I need is your support.
Signed,
Anonymous
I don't know about other /.ers, but I've never had to call tech support for a game console, nor have I ever needed to use the warranty. As far as I can tell, voiding your warranty is only a nominal loss, nothing more. Most people who are thinking about modding their XBox won't care about the warranty--they know full well they are voiding it. They probably have the connections to fix whatever they break. I guarantee MS doesn't.
Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
so, pretty much nothing is different or new? same thing went with the original xbox, and i'm pretty sure the same thing goes for any piece of hardware. i'm sure this was also already in place before recent events. so microsoft is reminding everyone? ok.
...all cock-blockery aside...
Of course. Would you expect anything different from anyone else?
"...the protection of intellectual property rights ... significantly and positively impacts technological innovation..."
I'd love to see MS pay an 'independant 3rd party' to determine the truth on that.
Let's look at the things which Microsoft claims are "significantly and positively impact[ed]" by trying to protect their Intellectual Property:
economic growth
The only economic growth impacted is the upward growth of the modchip makers -- an industry Microsoft can't dominate and bully. What happenned to the economic growh of Netscape when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows -- a design flaw that has not been corrected even in Vista! How about all of the patents illegally used by Microsoft over the years? Why was their "economic growh" and Intellectual Property not worth protecting?
technological innovation
The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.
and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.
Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability? Quality like overheating and frequent crashes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices? From strings to hang the power brick to watercooling for the processors, the hardware hackers have been improving on the designs of the XBOX 360. It seems to me like these problems should have been fixed BEFORE shipping by highly paid designers, not AFTER shipping by fans who didn't want to feel cheated out of their money.
+5 Funny
(or, better yet, +5 The Exact Opposite Is True :-P )
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
all free games I can play versus mabey perhaps it might break at some point in the future. I dont condone piracy but the threat of not being able to call microsoft for help if it breaks is really dependent upon them actually being helpful in the first place. Remember they didnt want to recall the xbox powercables that were overheating and burning up people's houses, yeah that helpful. Yes I have called them, and yes its that bad, its like they were told at orientation not to answer the phone until the guy has been on hold for at least one hour. Not only are they all in India, but it seems only five of them. Ugh.
Microsoft is being pretty good about this. They're just talking about the warrenty. Apple would be cursing the evil hacking pirate terrorists at this point.
I can't wait until my XBox 360 gets repaired. The 3 red light circle started flashing the first time I plugged it into Xbox Live.
Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.
It voids your warranty! And no Tech Support! Well no shit sherlock!
My guess is that we'll see MS issue an update over xbox live soon that stops this particular hack method working and no doubt they'll put the same update into the machines rolling off the production line. Oh, and don't forget that they can put updates into the games too...
Of course, I might be wrong, but I really can't see them being too worried. If they decide to go this way then the likelyhood is (until new methods are found) that the only people this will work for are the owners with older versions of the console that weren't connected to xbox live or used to play new games.
People that believe in their opinions don't post AC.
So violating the intellectual property rights given to the consumer is considered protecting intellectual property rights? Buh, What?!?
The hack only allows piracy. As Microsoft said, the rest of the security system isn't broken at all.
That's the sad part. It's very obvious that Microsoft cares much more about preventing Linux, Xbox Media Center and Game Shark much much much much more than they care about preventing piracy.
The 360's security against unauthorized software undoubtedly cost millions of dollars to develop, and an unknown amount to manufacture. Meanwhile, the anti-piracy system of the 360 is almost identical to the Xbox's weak system. They barely changed anything, even though they knew it was already broken.
By the way, the piracy hack for 360 was finished months ago. They probably spent the rest of that time designing their stuff to make it incredibly hard for Microsoft to detect it through Xbox Live.
Expect Microsoft to very soon reflash the drive of anyone connecting to the Internet with a version with no back doors and that checks digital signatures of future flashes. And they'll do this instantly upon detecting a connected network cable without asking for your permission.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
Microsoft's warranty for the original Xbox wasn't worth the digital paper it was printed on. I had to send mine back three times with a defective DVD drive before I finally gave up and stopped buying games for the damn thing. It would refuse to play any discs be it movies or games intermittantly. The braindead techs at Microsoft's Xbox repair center would run their diagnostic disc on it once and then send it back with the same defective drive.
/rant
I only started using it again when I decided to mod it to run unsigned binaries like XBMC on it. An interesting side effect was that I was able to copy my until recently unusable games to the hard drive to actually get to play them without the system locking up with an "Unable to read disc" message all too often.
I actually bought a few games after I modded the system due to the fact that I was now able to once again use the console for what it was intended to do.
Honestly I'll wait for the hackers to perfect a similar method for the 360 before I'll pick one up. I have no interest in pirating games but I would like to ensure that I will be able to play games that I purchase without being frustrated again.
...Billy-boy didn't take out a full-page ad in a gaming mag that screamed:
YOU ARE ALL THIEVES!
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Dear Microsoft,
Screw you!
- Anon.
Oh noes!!!!1111eleven You mean that if someone mods their XBox360, they won't get a free power cord when their power supply starts a fire?
I really can't think of any other reason that anyone capable of modding a console would want out of Microsoft's tech support.
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
Think about it.
buy an XBox at all? Most games are available for PC as well, and one way to actually stop manufacturers from limiting the options for users is to avoid closed systems like closed game consoles.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Protecting the integrity of the online security. On Xbox live you can be certain the person whacking you constantly isn't doing it with the aid of a patch to increase speed or damage, you just suck.
If that goes, Xbox live's one REALLY good reason to exist does too.
1. I Can't afford a PC that will play a game like Gears of War. Both the PS3 (yes, the PS3) and 360 are an incredible value from a PC/hardware point of view. Remember the 6800 Ultras when they came out? Up to 800 dollars!
2. Windows on a PC blows. I'm sick of it. That's why I have a Mac... but Windows is the only PC platform with gaming. Yeah, yeah, I know MS also makes the 360, but they've figured out what Apple has known all along -- you make an end-to-end product and you can improve the quality of the software that runs on it.
3. The future of PC gaming is headed toward the Xbox Live model anyway, why not have the best implementation of that model? Steam and other delivery systems are just catching up to what Live has already accomplished.
And yes, I can get by without a mouse and keyboard. I have been intelligently designed with hands, fingers, and opposable thumbs to accommodate all sorts of tasks. And the 360 controller is heaven.
It should be noted that the so called warranty period is only 90 days parts / labor...
;)
And BestBuy would exchange it under warranty through their PRP...
Just have to hide the ripped warranty seal...
Trust me
I don't see how Microsoft's {for that matter, any manufacturer's} hardware lockdown can be considered as anything other than anti-competitive behaviour. If a car manufacturer set out deliberately to frustrate attempts to fit extra lights, a better stereo, blind-spot mirrors, fluffy dice &c. not made by them, they would quite rightly be slapped down in the courts. In fact, there's a healthy competitive market in third-party car accessories. A firm of house builders could not legally prevent homeowners from laying new laminate flooring, installing extra power points or fitting new door handles not approved by them.
.....
Due to a little thing called "Exhaustion of Rights" {it goes all the way back to when some bloke signed a piece of paper at a place called Runnymeade}, when you buy an XBox360 using your own hard-earned, anything you do with it {with the possible exception of setting fire to it and throwing it through one of their windows} is none of Microsoft's business anymore.
It was quite legal for Parker Brothers, Activision, Imagic et al to make game cartridges for the Atari 2600. What changed since then? Apart from people getting greedy
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
That was my first thought on seeing the headline. three hundred and sixty hackers, all being responded to by Microsoft. I wonder if they each got letters, or if Microsoft sent out three hundred and sixty lawyers.
In Scandinawia for example, there is a (by law) 2 years of indemnifications from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to consumers. And even 5 years on items meant to last significantly longer than 2 years.
Now, this doesn't cover normal wear and tear. Nor does it cover consumer misuse (like say dropping the console from 6 feet), but neither does Microsofts "warranty".
If you do mod your console, this affects your rigths under law not at all. The only exception being, offcourse, if you break the console by doing the mod. That is, offcourse, not Microsofts fault.
But if you say mod your console by soldering in a new BIOS, and then half a year later the DVD-drive breaks, MS will have to replace it at their cost, unless they can show that it's likely the DVD-drive broke because of the soldering-in of the new BIOS.
Americans buy expensive "extended warranties" to get what people in other countries have by default. (not that it stops companies from trying to push "extended warranties" here too, it's just even more pointless here.
then there's a lot more wrong at MS than even slashdotters might normally predict.
Hopefully the support people aren't tracking your call using yellow stickies on the cube wall to remind them "Call Joe, re: code" Usually there's something more sophisticated than that for tracking support. Either there's an automated system for handling this, or at the very least the ticket should be coming up as unresolved. Saying "hey, anyone might forget" is a little silly
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
As it has been suggested, Microsoft will probably lock the hacked 360s from Live. Well i got news for you: unlike the original XBOX, a 360 with no Live is a crippled 360, even with only the silver account that is free: - No download service for game patchs; - no Live marketplace (which will exclude Live Arcade games); - no original xbox backward game compatibility; - no achievements, - no leaderboards. So it's not only online gaming that get's cut down...
According to this page. The warranty is only 90 days on the 360, which means that if you bought it on or around the launch day, in November, your warranty expired 3 months ago.
To be unbiased, the PS2 also had a 90 day warranty as well. The gamecube has a twelve month warranty.
This a truly flaccid attempt at a warning. Microsoft should be ashamed. People who would actually worry about voiding their warranty are likely far too Joe Citizen to consider (or be capable of) hacking their system. People who would try to finagle their 360 and have the capacity to successfully accomplish the task are likely also smart enough to convince the guy on the other end of the phone that the problems with his system are the result of trying to make toast, blow dry the dog, charge their digital camera and play Halo all at the same time...
The serious question is why would Microsoft care too much about Piracy on the XBox 360 (and no, I'm not talking about the conspiracy theory of easily pirated systems selling better). Microsoft has designed their system around XBox Live and they want all games to have online gameplay and episodal content. Microsoft has probably designed their Hardware so that XBox Live can detect most hacks very easily; this means that although you can steal the game you can not play it online or gain the extra content. For them, stealing the game is similar to stealing World of Warcraft.
If MS would just support the XBMC project instead of forcing people to use the MS one this wouldn't be a big deal to most people. I don't care about playing ripped games but I would love to have the XBMC running on a 360. It would do a much better job of upconversion and dvd playback.
Dual Firmware.
A good Xbox 360 modchip will have an external switch. On one setting, it will only load the hacked pirate firmware capable of loading burned games. On the other setting, it will only load the original firmware, disconnecting any electrical connections to the hacked firmware.
A careful user won't plug the Xbox 360 into the internet when using the hacked firmware, but will be detected as legitimate and able to use Xbox Live when using the original firmware.
Complaining about $5 a month is a little silly though, don't you think?
...like this one? I thought they just made it so you could play copies of games.
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
Actually, I got a 360 on launch day, and was able to redeem my warranty last month when the whole thing up and died (3 red lights). It took about a week and a half, and they replaced my original console with a newer one. My guess is that the launch day 360's were a little more problematic than later versions, leading Microsoft to extend the original warranty.
The call center was pretty noisy though.
Yeah, I have a webcomic...
I fully support Microsoft in their war against hackers... Prevent cheaters online [and] Prevent illegal copying of games.
Then why can't I port my own programs to the 360? Some of my programs are non-games or turn-based games (so cheating is no problem), and they're Free (so copying is no problem).
(95*9)+145 = 1000. Divide by 10 to get the average and you end up with
;)
a) 100 for the average IQ.
b) 90% of the test-takers being below mean IQ.
Now, this example does not refute the grandparent's point that most people are idiots,
as it only requires a change from "Half of all people are below average intelligence."
to "At least half of all people...", however, the sample could be skewed as follows:
Nine scores of 110 and one score of ten, for an average of 100, with 90% of people having
above average intelligence. This is called a nonrepresentative sample, and such anomalies
disappear once the testing audience is large enough. So... just keep increasing the number of your
lab rats until you get a bell curve and everything should work out okay.
P.S. "Intelligence Tests" do not measure intelligence. Never have, never could, never will. On the other hand, they are fine measures of test-taking ability, and might be useful in bureacracies to gauge someone's ability to fill out paperwork.
I sure wish my end users were covered by warranty. I'd return them back for a full refund.
...i$ what $o much matter$ to Micro$oft. That and $naffling authority over your machine$.
And it alway$ ha$.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing