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Microsoft Introduces Pay-as-You-Go Computing
An anonymous reader writes "Geekzone is reporting that Microsoft is introducing a new business model for 'pay-as-you-go computing.' From the article: 'The pay-as-you-go computing model enabled by Microsoft's FlexGo technology allows customers to have a fully featured PC at home by paying only for the time as they use it through the purchase of prepaid activation cards or tokens. Microsoft has been running trials of the program in Brazil for more than a year and will soon be expanding to select markets in India, Russia, China and Mexico.'" This makes me giggle, because it's basically the return of time-sharing; in the past it was for for mainframe systems, but I suppose the same concept behind the mainframe idea would be true in developing countries today with PC systems.
Looks like a novel new way to pay the Microsoft tax
Not only they will pirate windows, but they will pirate the HW too.
Not exactly time-sharing, but "on-demand" computing. Unisys and IBM are doing this now - it's actually a new concept for them as well...
Why does it seem Microsoft is running out of good ideas? Pay as you go computing? How long would it be before you actually pay the amount that a new PC/Windows would cost for this? Is Microsoft going to be the next Rent-a-Center, where you pay $5000 for a PC that costs $500? Or pay $1000 for windows when it is in reality $200? heh, bad idea I say.
-- Josh
"Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me!" - Pete Conrad
It seems they've spotted a good niche. From MS website:
In many countries around the world, people face two main barriers to owning a PC: the entry cost of buying a computer is too high and the fixed monthly payments associated with traditional financing are beyond their ability to pay- if they can get financing at all. And even in countries where consumer credit is available, many people are reluctant to incur the obligation of fixed monthly payments because they have unpredictable or variable incomes.
All fair points.. it will be interesting others in the industry take up the idea.
This makes me giggle, because it's basically the return of time-sharing; in the past it was for for mainframe systems
When you stop giggling you may as well notice both have nothing in common.
One is a payment model for using licensed software (but time is not limited by demand, just by your money), and the other is an early form of multitasking, allowing more efficient use of the mainframe resources.
It's the same tactic used to lease-to-own cars to people who can't really afford them
FTFA:
In other words, if you don't qualify for the loan as per item 1, you don't get to "long-ter lease" the box. So why not just borrow it outright and not be stuck paying per hour? Or take that 1/3 cash down and buy a used PC.
Oh, right...
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
I can't for the life of me imagine how they are going to enforce this except with Trusted Computing. The only way that they are going to prevent someone
* Imaging the drive
* Installing another OS of their choice
* Using the computer as much as they like
* When the agreement ends, replace the drive image.
Ok, if you sick a lawyer on the poor user, you can sting them for their minimum 800 hours fees. But the only way they could prevent the above is by locking the machine down at the BIOS level with TCPM support.
Pay-as-You-Go rates force you to shutdown/reboot long before the computer crashes on its own.
but on reading article.. it's more of the "good little consumer, you don't own anything, you just amuse yourself with what we let you have for a time" IP uber alles mentality.
And what the hell is "AMD intends to develop processors designed specifically to support Microsoft FlexGo technology." supposed to mean? Credit Availabilty Execute Protection that checks you are rich enough to continue enjoying your "rich media experience"?
No doubt this scheme will seem immediately cheaper than purchasing hardware and installing from a cdr with the latest ubuntu or whatever and of course it'll be all about "empowering global citizens by shrinking the digital divide!!" yay!!!
Goes to check the temperature of the frog.
Definatly just shaddy financing with a new lable. Purchase only the time you need only works for a centrally located service. Cell phones work that way because you buy the phone (more or less) and then you are purchasing the network which you phyically don't own. Same with mainframe time. You likely didn't own the mainframe when you were purchasing time on it. The only way a personal computer would be practicle (at least to me) is if it was personal. Same settings, profile, files, etc. And it would likely have to be in my residence. So you can't really have anyone else using it. This doesn't really add up as a concept. Unless microsoft is getting into the Net Cafe business.
From the Microsoft page: "makes it easier for people with modest incomes in emerging markets to buy a full-featured PC for their families"
The true is that "people with modest incomes in emerging markets" don't buy software. Even when buying a new computer, big retails shops bundle Linux, that is removed as soon as people see they can't play games or use Encarta or Word or any other well known software. On the newspapers in Argentina, you see there is a standard fee for "linux removing" (and Windows installing, not advertised). In small computers shops, they preinstall WindowsXP without even asking (without licence). Most software is available for u$2 on CD-R (is advertised on any newspaper and even phone booth).
Only big companies (mostly from overseas) can afford to buy software.
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
... As soon as they read this, thousands of CIOs, PHBs, and Microsoftie system administrators realize Linux IS ready for the desktop, and introduce large-scale plans to switch all their users to ______________ [insert favourite distribution here], stat.
:-)
Panic seizes Wall Street, Microsoft stock dives, NASDAQ tanks, Bill Gates become the 100th richest man in the world, and Congress introduces law designed to protect "American innovation and competitiveness against the evil, communist, terrorist-sponsored opensource software".
Hey, one can dream, right?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
You mean a PC that includes:
An office suite.
A standards compliant browswer
Maybe a simple image editor
And maybe a couple of small utility programs.
Yeah, I guess that would be worth paying for....
I mean, it's not like people are giving it away for free.
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
Seriously, who is going to buy a computer and then pay for the right to use it?
Only my opinion, but as the handheld communicators, which are pay-as-you-go or monthly-fee based gain marketshare and computing power, maybe Microsoft is quietly preparing for battle in what may become the 'standard pc' for most users.
Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
And cue the anti-Slashdot trolls bitching about how we see everything MS does as evil...
I dont understand why this comment was moderated off-topic; It's a perfectly valid observation, albeit done jokingly. It's an indication that PC's are cheap, but Microsoft software so expensive that a new (old?) licencing system is required to get access to it - unless you opt for a potentially better suit of software, at no cost at all.
I'm old enough to remember working in the time-sharing model; yes I know time-sharing is a multitasking principle, but in the old days it was used to charge users *per cycle*. I shudder at the memory, and will certainly avoid any use of such a licencing scheme.
This will just make Linux more attractive. Thanks Microsoft!
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
Isn't it getting to the point now where us lucky ones in the first world are throwing away enough old-but-still-working hardware that people in the third world CAN have a PC that works just fine with the right setup and just isn't the latest and greatest quad-core offering from Intel?
I guess it makes a lot of sense from Microsofts point of view.. instead of letting them have cheap home PCs and "free" Windows software (aka piracy), make them pay outlanding sums of money over the long-term without realizing it, while offering the usual sub-standard software and being able to fall back on "ooh, it must be network problems, cause our centralized Office products are perfect!" excuses as required.
Whatever happened to all these $100 PCs bundled with Linux? They can't be much more expensive than a thin-client PC + broadband connection required to deliver the new Microsoft centralised services at any decent speed?
I hope M$ has thought this one through - if they start actually forcing those who cannot afford it to pay for M$ products, those who cannot afford it will quickly migrate to something they can afford, eg. Linux. Perhaps once the end-user moves, corporations will feel more secure about moving and before you know it, M$ isn't turning a profit in either of their two truly profitable offerings any more (Windows and Office)
Will program for karma.
...which will be another $30/month
This kind of "personal" computer only
- and one really has to wonder what happens to the data -and hardware- when poor people in hand-to-mouth economies can't afford unlocking their "own" PCs of this kind anymore.Seems to have all the hallmarks and ugly side-effects the former "self-destruct DVDs", and worse...
If the $100 computer with open source software is the liberation theology of the information revolution, this is the indentured servitude of the information revolution.
...why Microsoft is so dismissive of the $100 PC.
An office suite, a standards compliant browswer, maybe a simple image editor, and maybe a couple of small utility programs.
Yeah, I guess that would be worth paying for....
I mean, it's not like people are giving it away for free.
You bring up a point. This model of payment will be an avenue for MS o nickel and dime the consumer with junk fees, like the airline, banking and telco industry, and they'll end up with greater revenues than ever.
Just look at the banking industry. They're biggest profit growth is from all of those ATM, account fees, etc... all bogus. Especially ATM fees! $2.00 ATM fee!?! Shit, mine are free at my Credit Union - even when I use someone else's ATM!
Actually, if you follow the links in the article to read how it works, its obvious that booting from a linux DVD bypasses their time subscription/metering servers and all the software components they had to ad to Windows to lock out the user.
Actualy, booting from one of the hacked bootable Windows DVDs (yes, its possible to run Windows from a DVD - you can make your own bootable one by going here :http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/) also bypasses their time metering system.
I'd say Microsoft damn near invented the concept of pay-as-you-go computing since anyone running one of their systems has constantly been paying for it...is so many ways.
This is why everyone should get a Mac. :P
Latest from Redmond's computer labs:
Licensed Pay-As-You-Go-Breathing.
$10 per 100 inhales.
Exhaling is charged as an optional extra.
This is a really terrible idea. I have one that even better than a pet rock: each year tens of thousands of computers are junked out and replaced by new ones. Know where they end up? At a trash heap. Why not salvage the parts, create a bunch of decent machines out of them, throw on a free OS, sell em for next to nothing to those who can't afford a few hundred bucks for a PC. Sure as hell beats this pay out your butt method. What good is a computer if you can't sit around and play with it for hours on end without worrying about how much it'll cost you?
The problem isn't the PC cost per se. At this point, you can Build a PC for less than $200. it's the software that's the big cost.
What they should be doing is something along the lines of the Xbox 360 micro-payments model. Basically, give away starter edition for free, and then sell prepaid cards if you want to upgrade it to home edition.
They can also have a system built into it where you can also buy software A la cart using the prepaid cards either over time or all at once. You can make it so you basically, pick out the program you want, and then use the cards to buy it or pay for it over time using the cards. Then as soon as the program is paid off, you can choose something new to purchase, add cards to the service when you can to spend at a later date, or stop purchasing cards and wait until something new comes out.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
It doesn't go into details about how the anti tampering works.
Is this a seperate sub system that is independent of the OS
and it removed/disabled then disables the whole PC? Or is it
integrated with windows in which case surely just installing
a new OS (assuming you can boot off a CD/floppy) would bypass it?
Anyone have any technical info?
This seems to be a good ploy to target the micro user who cannot afford to buy the full version or doesn't have use for it a long time. I see a similarity with adobe, which launched its elements editions of its popular software photoshop for 1/10 the price with only necessary features.
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
help me switch BACK to linux by showing me a decent graphical video editor.
What problems block your use of Cinelerra?
Wow, you have to hand it to the Microsoft marketing guys. Microsoft finds a way to allow banks to squeeze an extra 20% (my guess) out of low-income people, which of course also increases sales for Microsoft, and they manage to spin this as a benefit to those low-income people.
I may be ignorant, but what do low-income people need PCs for anyway? Do they really need sofware to balance their checkbooks, or file their taxes? Are they really cranking out a lot of documents? It seems to me that the real need for PCs in emerging markets is for students. If Microsoft or the banks want to help these students, they should provide them with financial assistance, or no-interest loans to buy them. They shouldn't cripple them with lockouts. "I'm sorry, I couldn't finish my paper because my parents couldn't afford to pay for the computer this month".
In fact I writing this from an MS PAYG machine right now. You can even able to purchase denominations as low as 30 seconds which ought be more than enough time to
Does it include free-time to install security updates or how about wasting 2 hours of time to remove embedded spyware? Does this program mean that the end user would need to pay not only to have pervasive software removed but also pay Microsoft for the time it takes to get rid of it?
Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?
The renewable fee for net access is partially justified (maybe not the $30 figure but the fact there IS a figure...).
It takes power, space, staff and equipment to run an ISP. It isn't like all the customers could just pay $29.95 once and have net for life.
On the other hand, a Windows install takes none of Microsofts time and shouldn't be forced into a renewable fee schedule.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
So.. our hapless user has just bought five hours time on his pc, and after opening a couple of programs, the system crashes. Do they get a credit for the time that the PC is down as well?
Steve Ballmer: "I once had a great idea..."
Geek A: "Really Steve, what was it?"
Ballmer: "Well, allright! It was an idea for "pay-as-you-go"-computing! You see, there's this full-featured computer, but you have to buy these tokens in order to use it"
Geek A: "That is the worst idea I have ever heard in my life Steve"
Geek B: "Yes, this is horrible, this idea."
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
This is just marketing - this won't add up economically for users - will it? I guess they have done trials in places, but I can only see M$ winning at this game. If you have to pay 1/3 upfront - it could be better invested w/o the M$ stuff on the machine. Also are there not internet cafes around in cities that will be cheaper and be real "pay as you use"? This seems like an idea waiting for a reason to exist. I think perhaps they should realise that the real way to help bridge any digital divide is not to make money out of the people on the otherside.
MS has been trying that concept for years. Some might remember when Gates introduced the idea that you won't even have to install Office or any Program anymore, you just stream it from the 'net. Someone must've told him that this would mean load times of a few minutes, or we'd have seen something like that by now. But when you look at the Office Document format, you'll notice it is actually a streaming format. Not necessarily something you'd expect in an "ordinary" file format, more something to be expected in a format that is supposedly loaded through a slow net connection.
That MS-Office can't "open" a document until it has loaded it entirely is a different matter. But in theory you can stream docs.
But back on topic. MS has been dreaming in this direction for a while now. After all, look at the advantages for them: First and foremost, full application control. It would even be possible to limit the capabilities later. Currently, you have the "problem" that, if something is possible to the user that the user deems beneficial but you don't enjoy in your software, you have a VERY hard time convincing him to upgrade to the next version, that has more features you want but less of what the user wants.
Then of course recurring revenue. Now, you buy Office and you use it. Forever. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who still has an Office97 running somewhere. Why upgrade? Newer versions don't offer any benefit. The only ones who do actually upgrade are companies that already fell for the "corporate agreement" bundle. But that doesn't offer ANY benefit for the average person.
This is just an attempt to force this kind of "agreement" down our throats. Since, after all, it's just a few cents every time you use your Word...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm just imagining the scenario where people are breaking into their own computer to get the tokens out. So what happens when you run out and it's ten minutes before a test solution needs to be posted online. This just sounds like an even less reliable computing method, all costs barred. I'm sure if someone in the US is creative enough, they can find people willing to GIVE them a pc of moderate quality. For developing countries, as a means of bringing this to the market, yeah maybe, but it makes sense why it doesn't make sense in the US.
I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
Want to see me cut down on my computing time? Charge me by use. I'll find better things to do with my time.
Leave me alone!
Insert Coin 0/4 credits
And what about Total Cost of Ownership... Oh wait, that's Microsoft's TCO, not the users... ;-)
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
From MS:
This technology supports two models today: a pay-as-you-go model enabled by prepaid cards or a subscription model with monthly payments.
Pay as you go is just like getting a free cell phone and paying for the minutes. Subscription is like getting a free phone and paying a flat fee for unlimited calling.
Now, with business models enabled by FlexGo, Microsoft is removing these [financial] barriers to PC ownership.
Why are all the responses on Slashdot so predictable? Sometimes I wonder if the people on Slashdot are real, or if they have figured out a away to automate Slashcode to mine IRC channels and formulate opinions based on it?
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Sounds a bit "pay as you go".
Your sig would work better if it was "If Microsoft was mass, gravity would be stupidity."
Go to a small store or a wallmart like shop.
Buy a pc with linux or windows starter edition under us$570 with tax. Now exist lower tax to cheap pcs.
The winXP pro licence costs about us$300 and office us$400.
I know several people that choose to live with WSE limitations. But if you pay an extra us$40 someone will install 'gray' software to you.
And I think that 'pay to use your own pc' will not work at all. People buy pc to make it the 'personal computer', not 'rented computer'.
About the brazilian tests, maybe this is a big secret program...
Flex licensing has been around for a long, long time in the application markets (AutoDesk for one). And it works for those smaller companies that can't afford to buy out the entire store shelf for 1-10 users. (Makes me think of the software commercial where there is an automated salesman on the other line asking how many licenses you would like for your company and the default answer is "1500 licenses it is!!"
Flex licensing on the app level works...to a certain degree, but no possible way to put it on you OS and have it not create MASS chaos.
Total cost of ownership is going to be outrageous. Average user will have to add credits to use their own data. Sounds almost communist to me.
Giving total control of your OS to Microsoft it F-O-O-L-I-S-H. No other way to look at it.
With the type of people that will use or need this service, wouldn't this just be more potential zombie computers?
WTF makes you think that Apple would not do something like this? Hell I'd even say that they came up with it first, since with OS X you have to "pay as you go" for major OS updates and bug fixes.
Somewhere there I might be poking fun.
The terrifying thought is that our gullible leaders will be sold this concept by Microsoft. I can just hear the Home Office justifying buying 100,000 pay as you go PCs as being a lower initial outlay followed by predictable payments and insurance against upgrades (that's upgrades from the monopolistic supplier, Microsoft who's leasing it to them).
Just imagine - the UK government buys 100,000 top end PC's for £1000 each and then pays £1000 over 3 years for each copy of Windows... not possible? I wish.
...at every internet cafe. I'm very curious to know how many privileges the user will lose because of this. Will it be possible to, say, run a Live version of Linux off a DVD and bypass the billing system?
Trust me, kids; don't drink and post.
Microsoft keeps pushing the boundaries of innovation. During the anti-trust case, Ballmer called for the government to back off and "let us innovate".
Well, after the Bush administration came in and absolved them we're seeing the fruits of those efforts. Microsoft's licensing and revenue generation innovation is second to none. They have really demonstrated how a monopoly can be milked at unprecedented levels.
Thanks, but I'll stick to MacOS and Linux.
Now that this problem is fundamentaly solved (as in 80% of people just use a word processor to write letters and a spreadsheet to add columns), this can be addressed as well.
And of course video edition is not importan in multiple situations, but the Linux denialists will always find knicks in the shinny armour...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Here is the briefs of what I have discovered on this program here in Russia:
Happy user pays half a price when he buys the computer, with the rest of the price being arranged as a credit. Then he has a nice ability to use it slot-machine-way, with the hours he buys being his credit payments.
So system actually needs no protection. If user circumvents the system whatewer, he will be yet to pay his credit off.
It is nice to compare with the $100 laptop program. That program addresses same problem, but with quite another vision.
They might get away with it, if the pricing were rigth. Like cell phones where you pay $1 for the hardware. With this computer you pay one third of the total (HW+SW) price up front. They don't say what that price would be. I live in Brazil and have never heard of this program.
The card shown in one of the links says "R$95 for 55 hours", without specifying which services are being provided. Internet acces, perhaps? I pay R$50/month (about US$22) for unlimited 512 kbps broadband, so this couldn't be a good business from that point of view. Which software is included? They can hardly expect to fight illegal copying at this price, Brazilian street vendors charge R$10 per CD, installing XP and MS-Office would cost slightly less than US$10 for unlimited use.
In the end, this seems to be an effort against the Brazilian government program to create a Linux-based popular computer. The fact is that this effort has been facing a lot of problems due mostly to strong lobbyist action. I think this "pay-as-you-go" program is just a straw man to give some corrupt politicians arguments to say that Microsoft can also create a cheap computer for the people.
I think Microsoft is in serious fear of developing areas, and is looking at any business model it can to ensure that people learn how to use a computer with MS products on it. MS's business model revolves around having a monopoly advantage. The company leverages its marketshare very well. Playing catch-up to Linux would be a disaster for Microsoft.
Not that I buy into MS's total cost of ownership claim, but from an Econ 101 model, the cost of compatibility with majority systems can ofset profit margins (imagine if MS lost that advantage).
In looking at developing countries, where people are just learning to use a PC, Microsoft does not have this advantage. So, instead of using its marketshare, Microsoft is looking a lowest marginal cost model. Get MS products into people's hands with the lowest initial cost. It's sort of like a ghetto Rent-A-Center.
"Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f-ing Peace Corps." - John 'Bluto' Blutarsky
Microsoft is a sideshow made for Bill and Steve to separate people from their money (no holds barred). I can't help but think of VISTA as the fat, bearded, two-headed lizard-lady/contortionist. It has every freakshow charm all wrapped up into a single pretty package that people will pay money for and then wish they hadn't.
I've got to give Bill and Steve their due for being the richest Carni wizards in the history of the world.
It would be cheaper to take that 1/3 and buy a lower-spec white box and throw linux or bsd on it, and pocket the difference.
I hate you. How can you say that with a straight face? Especially in relation to the target audience for this. 'Pocket the difference' ? Is that the extra money you have left over when your life has slowly unravelled whilst you were still trying to compile the drivers for that cheap wireless usb dongle that was all you could afford because you were such a cheap, cheap pseudo-intellectual nobody? Get the fuck out of my office. Now.
What a marketing dream.
Here little girl/boy. You too can have your very own PC for litle or nothing down. Make easily affordable payments for a few hundred hours or so and it will be yours to keep.
You'll be excited to know that once your PC is paid for you will not notice any discernable change in the quality of your LeechGo service. This is LeechGo's personal commitment to you as a valued mark... er... customer.
But!!...for just a few pennies a month more you can be effortlessly upgraded to receive uninterrupted a superior service that you as a valued mark...er... customer have every right to expect from LeechGo. LeechGo's custmer service representatives will gladly upgrade your LeechGo account to LeechGoSilver. As a LeechGoSilver account holder all of our new and improved for pay services will be conveniently at your finger tips.
Finally, let me tell you about our LeechGoPlatinum limited modified extended flex pay as you go plan...
The reason most old computers don't make it to the third world is that they are too valuable to be thrown aside lightly. They contain materials which can be reused... or give profit back to the companies that made them.
C KID=&DID=1770&CID=387&PSID=APC.
From the article, "A recycled PC, on the other hand, is literally a gold mine. Pentium and other processors have golden tips. A computer's main circuit board, fashioned from copper and fiber glass, is studded with silver and gold connectors." http://www.apcnewsmedia.com/site/tertiary.asp?TRA
Would you honestly want to give those to the third world if you could literally get gold from other peoples recycling?
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I can't for the life of me imagine how they are going to enforce this except with Trusted Computing.
No? Let me stretch your imagination for you a bit:
The contract specifies that you will purchase 800 hours of computing time by date X. You reinstall the OS and use the computer the way you want. Date X arrives, and you get a large bill for the unpurchased hours.
Keep in mind that the total of the cost of the 800 hours plus the 1/3 you paid up front significantly exceeds the value of the machine you bought and the software that came with it. Further, keep in mind that since you wiped their system image, you were unable to use any of that software that you overpaid for.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
ArsTechnica reported on this issue as well: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060522-6881 .html
The article notes that "Right now, those who can't afford a Windows PC are faced with three alternatives: run Linux, run Windows Starter Edition, or obtain a pirated copy of Windows. The third option is often the most attractive one for consumers and conversely, the least attractive one for Microsoft." I must differ with one aspect of this comment - I would think the least attractive option for Microsoft would be for consumers to install and become comfortable with Linux.
I'll be ignoring the fact that for every "Sixpack" in the family, the odds are much better these days that a nerd exists in the family to help him.
Has anybody ever tried DSL Linux yet?
I did, and on several laptops I got free (as in beer) with a street value of $50 each. I'm unable to check all the model numbers at the moment. One ia a Toshiba Tecra with a P166, the next is a Compaq Presario (PII 450, I think), and an eMachines eSlate 450.
With a copy of DSL Linux and a D-Link Compact Flash wi-fi card in a PCMCIA adapter for wireless networking, I was able to get each computer to boot to DSL Linux from CD and have an IP address assigned automatically and was running Firefox and Sylpheed for web and email access. I was actually surprised that it picked up the wi-fi card so easily. I've always had to jump through hoops configuring a PCMCIA connected card.
DSL Linux is really a nice distro to turn nearly any wired PC into an Internet workstation.
I haven't seen any posting about something that I think likely. Microsoft would have to charge exceedingly high Pay As You Go rates to match their current revenue stream.
When you consider that most people barely use their computers, or the power therein. I've been around many home installations where, when confronted with the task of creating a document or spreadsheet from scratch, users are dumbfounded even to find where the program is!
I'd liken it to the what I call "EXCEL" spreadsheet syndrom. There is an amazing power in EXCEL (and WORD, etc.), but virtually noone uses more than 5% of its functionality. While spreadsheets are nice for calculating mortgage payments, it's hardly "computing" anymore.
Same for WORD... people want a new page, they hit ENTER enough times until the cursor moves the next page.
No, people (the vast majority) own computers and use them mainly for chatting, internet surfing, and e-mail. Now if Microsoft intends to charge PAYG for THAT, that becomes insidious. If a user's IE is up and running on the screen upon boot, and the user is fixing breakfast and doing chores for hours before sitting down in front of the machine, is there a charge?
If WMP finishes a song and is just sitting there, silent, is there a charge?
I sometimes just cringe when I envision the conference room meetings where this kind of stuff is dreamed up. I know "making money" is what businesses do, but customer service used to be a main ingredient in that mix. Nowadays it doesn't even appear on the radar.
I'm thinking of changing my sig to sigh.
bad analogy time
This sounds like when you get a "free" or very low cost cellphone, but you have to agree to a "plan" for a time period, say two years to get the upfront subsidy, which means you still will be paying for the phone, just you don't see the cost *directly* for the phone itself.
more bad analogy time!
Hey, the big oil companies should do this! You get a free car from them, or heavily subsidised upfront, in return it is designed to only use their brand of gas, which unfortunately is a dollar more a gallon. You get a spiffy new gashog faster and cheaper upfront though, so it just has to be a "better deal"!
How can it be full-featured and still run Windows? ;-)
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
After using my tokens and playing Windows, will I get tickets from my PC that I can redeem for prizes at Chuck E. Cheese?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Server Performance Report for xxxxx
Report created on 5/22/2006 at 6:00 AM
Summary for xxxxx
Server has been running: 54 days and 1 hour
54*24=?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Seems Microsoft's insanity knows no bounds!
The pay as you go has no difference whatsoever on buying the OS!!! For the XP Home Editionm it costs R$1,00 (~US$ 0,40) per hour, and the OS is yours after 800 hours...
The retail Windows XP Home Edition costs around R$600,00 (~US$280,00), and can be bought in 3 payments with no interest.
In the end, it is the same as going on a personal loan...
"There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong."
H. L. Mencken
Debt - I can see it now. Another fine Microsoft innovation.
Going to the site (Portuguese language link) of the store that sells those computers, I saw that the cheapest computer with "XP Starter Edition" is sold at 12 x R$116,58 and the cheapest with "XP Home Edition" is sold in 12 x R$166,58.
Let's compare, assuming the "Home" version as a base:
1) Microsoft Pay-as-you-go:
- R$ 666,33 up front, plus R$ 95,00 for each 55 hours of use after that.
2) Traditional system:
- R$ 0,00 up front, plus twelve monthly payments of R$ 166,58.
Does that make any sense? Let's assume you use the computer for an average of 3 hours and 13 minutes a day. You end paying R$ 166.58 a month anyway!
As an interesting note, that same page at the bottom also has the Brazilian federal government's "Computer for everybody" Linux PC, but it's labelled "out of stock", no price mentioned. 2.2 GHz Celeron, 128 Mb RAM, 40 Gb hd, CD-RW, in-board sound, 10/100 Mbps ethernet, 56 kbps modem, 15" CRT, no details on graphics board.
If you get a Pay As You Go phone, that's your phone. The cellular company basically gives away the phone to sell the communication service, and the PAYG phone is rarely a "full featured" phone... it's got no value outside the cellular system.
That is, you're not buying the phone. You're buying the service.
This is just hire-purchase, rent-to-own. The 800 hours of service aren't optional, they're just a different way to pay. The user has to pay them all - they're on the hook for 800 hours, even if they have more control over how fast they pay it off. And the scheme really depends on people paying off the PCs quickly: if it turns out that people are taking too long to pay the financial institutions are going to change the terms to a more conventional HP scheme. They'll have to, THEY'RE on the hook too.
The money was gone long ago - all I have left is emotional stability, and Microsoft takes a little bit of that away every time I try to get paragraph styles to work right.
--- What?
About the brazilian tests, maybe this is a big secret program...
Only 1000 PCs? That's barely test-marketing, you can bet they cherry-picked their prospects.
I have seen a lot of blatant greed in my day, but this is definately the worst. Doesn't Bill and Steve have enough money? Now they want to start fleecing the third world. So the end user pretty much pays for the cheap hardware they will put in this thing and then MS will nickel and dime the user as long as they own it. In the end, the owner will probably pay 4-5 times what it would have cost if they just bought the thing outright. That doesn't even take into account software. The machine with OS is one thing, but it doesn't really do you any good without apps. Worse yet, the users will get their data held hostage. I don't care if you need the medical records on the hard drive to save your life. Want them? Go buy another $50 access card.
This has tremendous potential for abuse and putting a proven abusive monopoly in charge of it is pretty much like putting a convicted pedophile in charge of an orphanage.
Come on guys. You already have an obscene, shameful amount of wealth that you couldn't even spend in a lifetime. Do you really need to scam poor, third world peasants that are just trying to pull themselves out of poverty?
Want to really help? Change your draconian EULAs so that companies can donate their old PCs with the OS and software to relief agencies so that they can be GIVEN to the deserving.
Its actually quite a good idea for Microsoft, and other vendors. Long term monthly payments from consumers, regardless of the garbage you put out.
Sort of like cable TV.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
where you pay $5000 for a PC that costs $500
:-)
*cough* Apple *cough*.
That cough sounds pretty nasty - you know what would clear that right up, for you and everyone else? A Mac mini or a Macbook.
I know you were joking but repetion becomes perceived truth, and it's pretty annoying to see the Apple is Expensive meme continue long after they are not.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
MS is counting on the fact that people will just 'pirate' software to run on one of these machines. That would certainly make the over all value this scheme seem plausable.
You kids and your terrible mental arithmetic...
When I bought my inspiron 630m it came with 1GB of ram, 100GB disk, 2Ghz Pentium M and the three year warranty for 2300$ [with taxes]. That was when the BASELINE Mac laptop was $2000 on its own, that is 1.5Ghz G4, 512MB of ram, 60GB disk, etc... Upgrading and warrantying the thing would have cost [iirc] about $2850 or so.
I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the present where the Macbook is actually a really good value - and you don't need to pay Apple to upgrade the HD since it's so easy to replace.
As for the Mac Mini, it's $699 [CDN] for a 1.5Ghz single core processor with 512MB of ram. Big deal. I could buy a 2Ghz dual-core AMD64, 1GB of ram and a proper case (e.g. one where I can install new stuff) for about the same price.
Would you really buy that for your mom? What about software? That's where the real value of the lower end Macs comes in, very high quality hardware with a great set of software for most users.
And parents would appreciate the MUCH smaller mini form factor rather than that huge holking noisy AMD box. If all they want to do is use emaail and a web browser and manage photos, why choose a desktop?
Remember that I am not talking about more technical users who may well be more suited to the AMD box, I am talking about family members that only get by with computers because you, the tech guy, help them out.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes, indeed, pay-as-you-go gives the user an option to only use that $20 phone for 5 minutes or 500 hours, and they can spend based on their usage. If the microsloth pc offer was for a $100 pc, which you then could use 5 minutes or 5 hours, then we'd be talking apples to apples.
However, the only thing they're doing is putting you on a payment plan with flexible terms - you still pay a hefty price, which you've committed to in writing. The only difference is you can pay more (use more) now, or later.
Just sounds like some marketing guru came up with the bright idea to take the pay-as-you-go moniker from the cellphone world and make it sound like they're doing something revolutionary with pc's, when they're not. It's simply getting you on the hook for a new pc purchase under the guise of letting you pay only as much as you use, HAH!
Microsloth has repeatedly proven that superior marketing beats superior technology every time - this will be another win by their marketing geeks. Kudos MS for your marketing brilliance... pity you can't hire developers at the same level.
I think this quote bears repeating, although I don't know who started it:
Like any pusher, Microsoft has been doing its best for some years now to create and retain addicts - they have the infrastructure in place to keep those addicts coming back, and this is just another way to a) increase margins on what amounts to virtual crack, and b) ensure that your junkies don't go up to the next corner for something without as much strychnine.
The fact that they'll have every convenience store in the country turning over rocks for them [increasing the scope of the network] is gravy. It's a profitable idea if they can get the users to smoke that shit.
I'm seeing that in the future, I will not be buying anymore PCs - once these kinds of measures become pervasive to the point where the only [mod'd] hardware only allows the pre-paid software - well, at that point I'm going to have to be working on whatever machine was the last one I had before they took the old chips off the market, so I hope I have the source code.
"The Internet is made of cats."
Second, I like my family so I wouldn't subject them to Mac OS.
No, you could care less about your family - you just hate macs. Not consider all possible options for them just because you don't like them is pretty selfish. Enjoy the support work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Administrators have done this ever since.
You pay as you go get a new cup of coffee while waiting for the system to restart.
SCNR
Here's my ten-cents. I'd like to go over to the other side please.
Thank You
Just realised.. it gives a totally new meaning to, "Where you want to go today!" LOL!
At last! A way for me to NOT pay for the time when my OS crashes!
This also enables Microsoft to rename the BSOD to "Free Time"
(either that or to wake people up to the fact that they PAY for BSOD already-- will they pay by the hour for it?)
they want their idea back.
When I started working with computers in the 60s it was common practice for the hardware suppliers to charge by 'CPU Clock time'. There was a 'Hold' button on the console that would stop the clock and the processing and it was made clear that this needed to be used whenever the program was waiting to have a tape changed or the paper in the printer replaced.
Perhaps this huh, huh, huh, it's cool to ream people over attitude is why some of us are less sanguine on the Libertarian "free market" than others. And no the solution isn't the state it's more education, more co-ops/free software, and more routing around people who rejoice in being pricks and screwing people over. And to the person who laughed because they smartly avoid "rent to own" what do you think of high interest credit card payments, high interest car loans, and other accouterments of a middle/upper middle class lifestyles that I'm guessing you are paying? Remember the next person up the food chain is laughing just as hard at you for those decisions as you are laughing at people in the ghetto using "rent to own." Who is laughing now?
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Because maybe, just MAYBE, at least one or two of these naive suckers might finally stumble upon a CLUE!!! But this is a nice start. Hats off, Microsoft, for the new ammunition.
Now, the question becomes whether you can extract 1/3 of the value of the PC in parts. Transmeta has a press release on the subject. Here is a quote from the press release: "The specialized microprocessor is an enhanced version of Transmeta's 90 nanometer Efficeon microprocessor that includes instruction set extensions developed with Microsoft to support the FlexGo technology, which enables both pay-as-you-go and subscription computing models in emerging markets. This new Efficeon processor provides a secure foundation for Microsoft's FlexGo technology and associated business models. The design of the processor offers robust protection from repurposing and protects the business investment in subsidized systems."
"Pay as you go Windows"?! That sounds more like "Pay...(and then) go (find something better...that's not) windows" ...perhaps it was a typo...
Besides, they invented internet cafés for these kinds of people who like to nibble at a bit of technology for an exorbitant price
Hard work is just an accumulation of the easy things that you didn't do when you should have.
Have you noticed a lot of people are happy with their Windows 2000?
I bet not a lot will "upgrade" to Vista once it's out. XP is stable enough for the mainstream folks.
MS's greatest competitor is the previous versions of its own products. Pay-as-You-Go is simply a way to make people who refuse to upgrade continue paying.
The next question is, when they drop the support, will they still charge them, or is the Pay-as-You-Go versions going to expire, forcing everyone to upgrade?
So this is like a Cyber Cafe, only you have to pay for the hardware as well?
I'm sure I'm not the only person ever to have a PC so scrwed up that reinstalling XP home didn't fix it. Is pent over a year using my Linux box, before buying the ($200) copy of XP Pro, which installed and still did not fix it.
I can not afford to loose everything on it (not even the installs of programs that I have lost the discs to) so I mostly access it over a samba share, and occasionally switch the KVM over to it.
Result for MS: They got $200, and I've switched dozens of sections of "intro to computers with applications" that I teach to Knoppix Linux. Hundreds of students now use Knoppix every day instead of MS Windows.
They would do better to do the following:
The already licese that copy of MS Windows (or other s/w) to one processor. Why not allow me to download a new version of windows update that allows my pc to
(1) verify what I paid for (even giving me the date of purchase, the amount, etc.)
(2) scan every file for alterations, even using a bootable live CD that can get around any root kits (this disc would be $10 shipped, and would work with all versions of Windows, as it's only a bootstrap to get you on the web so you can run everything online)
(3) purchase any updates I need, a piece at a time. Let my buy NAT routing for $15, instead of holding out for me to spend $200 on XP Pro.
(4) remember my purchases, so that I can drop in that ubiquitous bootable CD any time, get online, and reinstall everything just as long as my processors serial number matches their records.
I know people are hesitant to allow MS to see who they are, but have you read the license agreement? They can eaves drop on everyhting you do, turn off you system if they want, and even delete all your files. They can commit fraud, theft, exthortion, and / or racketeering and you can not sue them. ( IT'S IN THE FUCKIN EULA!!! )
This would acutally help consmers. They would want to chagne the EULA to allow a license to be sold with the processor (not too bad) and to eliminate the absurd "5 component" rule.
Andy Out!
they should shut the hell up about "Naked PCs".
They can't have it both, and they shouldn't have ANY power to deny or obstruct the right to have and the ability to get legitimate naked PC or one with Linux only or set up as a dual-boot box.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Microsoft has been looking for a mechanism to make all software distributed with monthly maintenance fees. That way they make money every month. Sort of like the MMORPGs do it. Sell the game and then charge a montly fee, except Microsoft has been trying to find a way to do it with Windows.
In the long run these poor saps will pay much more for their computing experience then if they bought it outright.
If people wanted a cheap computer then get the hardware with some other OS other than Windows. Linux, although much more difficult to maintain over time, is just as capable at doing the basics: web browsing, chatting, some gaming, email, etc.
Let's hope that just the stupid people out there fall for this scam of Microsoft's and get them educated in that they can use an alternative to Microsoft's bloated expensive software.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Its bad enough they're trying to bullshit people into believing that you can't take your licensed OS off a dead box and install it on a new one ...
They're probably doing this as a preemptive strike against the sum-$200 pcs that are going to be coming out. One of those, plus a Nintendo Wii, is less than the down payment on one of those "deals".
This would make sense if they tied the user's account across windows (al la Active Directory?) in to some massive global Windows Domain...The idea of pre-paid terminal access with all of your user goodies from MSN and Office following you to any Internet conected PC you stuck your pre-paid smart card in to isn't too bad. (if you can see past the obvious privacy questions)I think this is idea for business travelers, technophile societies, and developing nations.
Sun's got something like that for LAN, SunRay--but we've tested them at work on a large callcenter rollout and they are less than stellar when running Windows software.
On the complete otherhand, this is a DUMB idea current form scratch cards? geesh--I give it 15 minutes before someone figures out away around this limitation and 16 minutes for it to hit the torrent sites.
I know what you're thinking. Did I forward 65,535 packets or 65,536 packets?
This is the same subscription business model that Big Software has been drooling over for more than a decade. Big Software is just green with envy at the consistent cashflow and profits that their brethren in Big Media enjoy, and they've been scheming how they can repackage software as "content" and coerce people to buy it EVERY MONTH rather than just once like appliances from Sears and tools from Home Depot.
This "pay-as-you-go" spin is just that: the latest spin on the same idea. They figure that people won't perceive it as paying a subscription FOR THE SAME SOFTWARE THEY ALREADY HAVE if instead it's a network application that doesn't permanently reside on their computer, that they didn't have to physically buy at the store or even purchase, download, and install online.
I have to give them credit... it's psychology genius, and they may get away with it this time. All they have to do is dupe a majority of the ignorant computer-using masses, and the rest of us that see this for what it is will be drug along unwillingly, kicking and screaming to no avail.
Those of us reading this here might as well drop trou and bend over now, because unless Ma and Pa User is aware of the deception here we're all screwed.