Slashdot Mirror
Will Pretty PCs Make Vista More Attractive?
Well, they finally realized that nobody's going to buy it because of the operating system.
(Whether that's true or not is up for debate; certainly a lot of people may prefer Vista to Windows XP.)
Stavr0 writesMicrosoft wants 'PCs to be objects of pure desire.'
I desire my PC to be pure of spyware, security flaws and instability.
Reader melted was one of the first to dismiss the PC-prettification project as a lost cause:
Those OEMs couldn't "beautify" anything if their life depended on it. If they could, they'd already do so. The best they can do is steal Apple's 3-year-old designs.
Others, too, described Microsoft's aesthetic guidelines as a clear response to the widely hailed industrial design from Apple; reader Dan East offers a compact formulation of that idea:
MS is just trying to grab a few sales away from Apple at the expense of the OEMs. Why not? MS doesn't have anything to lose on this one — the OEMs are the ones taking the risk.
"The Mac isn't a good comparison," though, says reader dada21, who writes
I'm not sure I agree with the "Be like a Mac!" comparison. For most PC manufacturers, having their own "look and feel" has been part of what has given them a strong brand name. Sure, Microsoft wants to grab some of that brand recognition beyond just the bootup splash screen (and the desktop look and feel), but I also think this will create more than just brand recognition for Microsoft — I believe it will also produce an interesting "playing field" for companies beyond the Big Four (Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq, Toshiba). Consider the smaller OEMs and white box companies — by providing a standardized look and feel, this will open the door of opportunity for many more companies. Sure, the big guys probably don't WANT this (they want to keep their look and feel in order to keep their branding strong), but it could create a new competitive atmosphere by giving smaller companies a foot in the door to compete on the look and feel front.
I've always loved third-party cases and keyboards and monitors moreso than the Big Four for the same reason that I've always liked clones — they've pushed the envelope before the big guys did. The downside is that the clones never seemed to sell well in the corporate environment nor in the newb home environment; the clones were just powerhouse sellers for us geeks. By having Microsoft "dictate" what they want to see, we may actually see more third parties offering competition to the Big Four, which in turn could see prices drop a bit more, which could push more legal Microsoft products into the fray.
All around, there are some Mac-branding similarities, but I don't really think that is Microsoft's desired goal to miMac (mimic the Mac, in my vernacular). I think it is just a good idea that will help the little(r) guys, and still give the big guys a chance to offer different products that the market can choose from.
According to reader linguae, a bit more mimicking might be a good idea:
Macs are worth the price . When I showed my parents and siblings my Mac and fooled around with it for a few days, they fell in love with it. They were sold on buying a Mac, and they are now saving up for a iMac. The problem is that cheaper PCs are good enough for 90% of the market. Windows XP "just works" now (as long as you keep an eye on security), and Vista will be far better than XP (insert "it's a copy of OS X here"; say what you want, but Vista is still better than XP). Perhaps they haven't had exposure to OS X; my parents were sold on the Mac within a few days. Perhaps they still must have a Windows PC for their jobs (and they don't know that Intel Macs can run Windows natively). Or, perhaps that money is an issue for most people.
Reader MojoRilla phrased his response in the form of a "Dear John" letter, writing
A bit more positively, reader meburke points out that "real design considerations" go beyond the shape of the box, and provides links to a few sites which should be of interest to anyone who designs anything at all for others' use:Dear Microsoft,
It seems that you are doing a lot of things lately to tell me what I want out of your products. Vista's new UI, and now these fancy industrial design specs.
Guess what? I couldn't care less what the shape of my PC is. It is under the desk with my UPS, sub woofer and trash can. And I have no need for a fancy new desktop UI, especially one that takes resources away from what I actually want to do with my computer, like photo and video editing.
What I want is excellent software, compatible with open standards, for a reasonable price. You used to deliver this. When you delivered virtual memory and preemptive multitasking, you were ahead of Apple. Now you seem way behind. And also, I want you to support open standards so that I can use other products with others that haven't paid you a licensing fee, such as open source. I'm not a sheep to lock in. Hello Linux and OSX.
And your prices are far from reasonable. The fact that I can't transfer a OEM Windows license from one PC to another is rubbish. The fact that you want $399 for the standard edition of office, which I have paid you for several times over the years is robbery. I was happy with the functionality of office five years ago. Why should I need to buy it again? Hello, Open Office.
I'm not a sheep, Microsoft. You used to be innovative. Now you are all about marketing. Its been fun, but we're breaking up!
Many thanks to the readers (especially those quoted above) whose comments informed this discussion.As a starting point, I'd like to suggest designers read, "A Whole New Mind" by Daniel Pink, and check out some articles at danpink.com. Furthermore, I suggest visiting IDEO. Pay special attention to their "method card" deck. Lastly (for purposes of this discussion) I suggest visiting mcdonough.com. The common thread in all this is design. William McDonough says that the need for regulation indicates a failure in design.
The design of the product goes way beyond just cosmetics. There is only so much you can do with an enclosure for a PC board, but there is LOTS you can do with the system as a whole. Case modding is just a place to start. Functional design improvements are being made in everything from the input devices to really innovative interfaces.
The IDEO method cards are different from the "Creative Whack Pack" or "Thinkertoys" cards, in that they redefine the product design domain. The jobs of the future are going to be design jobs requiring both high creativity and high technical ability. If someone in India or China can do your job as well and cheaper than you, or if a computer can do your job better and faster, your job is obsolete.
Prettying up a Windows PC is tantamount to spraying perfume on a pig.
Trolling is a art,
I wonder, did they already ask the Slashdot team to not link them? They're *always* down after being linked here...
This is Slashdot. Common sense is futile. You will be modded down.
Not bloody likely.
Vista will live or die based on the hype and up take of new PCs. So far the hype is on target (saddly) and time will tell if the general public will think they need new PCs.
I like muppets.
"Do you think this expensive wrapping paper will make Wilma like the gift bowling ball I'm going to get her for our anniversary?"
Where were you when the voynix came?
Three rules that will boost Vista sales:
(props to SNL)
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
They can dress Vista computers up however they want, it won't change the fact that Vista is mostly an attempt to push DRM like PVP down our throats just a little bit more so that they can force us to buy new hardware before the old hardware is obsolete. Forced obsolecence is a serious concern, and "prettying up" PCs is about as important as makeup on a dog.
Oh You POS
> Microsoft wants 'PCs to be objects of pure desire.'
Does it include new interfaces on the front?
I don't think that pretty PCs will make people buy more. It's simple - if someone needs a computer, they will look at RAM, Hard drive, graphics card and other things, not the box itself.
Besides, most people I know build their own PCs, so it won't affect them.
One more thing to mention is that PCs are not just _personal_. They are also used in companies, where office buys them for employees. If a computer has a nice colour, would they buy more, than they need?.. I don't think so.
that's how it works for MS on slashdot I guess..
The bitter pill is coated with a sweet colorful shell...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Will spraying perfume on a pile of shit make it smell better??? For a few moments... but in the end, it's still a pile of shit.
Pretty PCs would force Apple to concentrate even more not only on pretty outlook of Macs but also on better working operating system to compete against PCs. That would make Vista to look even worse compared to what OS X would be. I wonder if MS has nothing to loose... :)
I think Vista / IE7 will die based more on the mollycoddling MS put into it for their lowest common denominator users. Granted it's the Beta version, however I find it tedious to be reminded constantly that I'm at risk because I'm on the internet. The only way I was able to get the alert sections to stop was by putting the security settings on "High" and not have any applets, JavaScript, Flash, you name it. Makes it difficult since my company uses these tools for graphing data online. So far, it's been a nightmare for development.
I was this option: "I understand the risks, stop bugging the hell out of me"?
Or if they were to make IE7 as extensible as FireFox for a tool such as AdBlock (Plus) that'd be great and probably more helpful than just telling the drones they're at risk.
Admittedly, PCs are pretty lame in the design department, though I frankly have never been enamored of Macs either, though at least they trended away from the beige-gray box. Nowadays you can get beautified PCs (can we say Alienware?) and perhaps eventually there will be some renaissance in case design.
Having said all that, in the end if the OS sucks, is hard to use, or makes the machine unworkable, no amount of cool paint jobs or weird shapes are going to make people any happier about Vista.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Is whether Windows XP will still be available on new PCs. I don't want to purchase a license for Vista until at least a year after the bugs are worked out, which might be early 2008. Will I be able to buy a *NEW* PC (capable of running vista) with good ole windows XP preinstalled for the entirety of 2007?
Not everybody wants to upgrade to some shiny new untested environment.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Wait is this a Backslash or a Slashback? I thought Slashbacks were minor stories and updates. Obviously the number of sections abusing the word 'Slash' are not confusing enough. To rectify this issue, I propose a new section known as 'Slashwrists' which will contain emo blogs along with any the new MySpace stories.
If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
When I worked in retail, I found myself mostly finding for customers the highest end specs with the lowest price possible (with "quality" being one of those specs, not necessarily pointing at the nearest e-machine (or equivalent)). The only time the prettyness of a PC ever came into the discussion was when I was talking to a key set of people:
(1) Those who don't understand the technologies involved and can't go by anything but presentation, and
(2) Those who have so much money they just buy the most expensive product available regardless if the money is going towards chassis styling or internal components (a subgroup of (1) usually).
A lot of little old ladies or folks getting in and out of ferraris fit into these two categories. It's the 'noob' market. Businesses, geeks, nerds, and probably 80% of computer purchasers (per unit, not per person) are not going to be affected by the prettiness of the thing.
Heck, if I see something that looks slick I'd avoid it on the simple premise that the product has a value in design as opposed to specifications and/or quality of parts.
... pretty up a PC it's fine with me, as long as they let you get it without OS. It'd be nice to have a well designed PC for a change.
Supplies!
"Son, you can't polish a turd."
Oooooh look at the pretty trees.
Somehow this reminds me of the old addage about putting lipstick on a pig.
Where can I find a cheap, butt-ugly biege box to throw into the closet? I'm sick and tired of paying for extra case plastic and multi-colored fans.
The rest of the universe:
We want you to use your PC and fall in love with someone special.
Microsoft:
We want you to fall in love with your PC and use someone special.
You leave Cletus' love life out of it!
Where were you when the voynix came?
" don't want to purchase a license for Vista until at least a year after the bugs are worked out, which might be early 2008"
Just like all the XP bugs were gone by 2002.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Will pretty computers make Vista more attractive?
Yes. Absolutely. Why? Because we're human.
There are many comments up already saying "you can't polish a turd" and "vista is evil!" and, for what it's worth, I agree mostly. I'm writing this from an Ubuntu machine which I insist on using at work. I compute happily and sans hassle. But will pretty computers suceed? Yes.
Saying that they won't is the same thing as saying that putting a pretty model in a beer commerical won't make Budweiser (or whatever) taste better. Well, that's true, and yet sex sells beer. And cars. And a billion other things.
Okay, pretty girls aren't the same thing as pretty computers, but to some nerds they are. And in any case, anything sells better when it looks better, even crappy stuff. Just does, because we buy with our eyes first and our minds second.
Take a dump in a Prada purse and sell it for twice the price?
Windows XP on an iMac or Mac Mini. Problem solved.
This whole "lets make tricky, obnoxious cases for PCs" thing pops up every few years. It never amounts to anything.
Most people don't care how their PC looks. It gets stuck under the desk. A lot of the time, there's even a *door* covering it up.
If they really want to change the look of PCs for the better, then they should move to ultra-compact "mini" cases. I would love to be able to buy a fully-functional PC in a small case that still had a slot or 2 for expandability, and not have to pay $300 for the privilege.
...is steal Apple's 3-year-old designs" is not a fair statement at all. Most of the designs would take a 6-year-old to come up with.
Except for the hockey puck mouse, that one just sucked.
You are obviously not a woman.
I'm shopping for a new laptop for my girlfriend, A old dell I gave her is getting a bit old, but mainly she doesn't like the spartan, utilitarian, unattractive, and slightly scratched exterior.
She has three criteria for a new laptop, in this order...
1. It looks pretty
2. Its a 17 inch widescreen.
3. I say that the specs are good enough.
She is quite enamored with the Toshiba's Due to the glowing lights, copper colour, and sleek design. Its only a bonus that their specs are pretty good for the money.
Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
Why is this Backslash crap necessary? The story was already posted and commented, there's no point bringing it up again unless something significant has occurred.
What is PC attractiveness vs. Cost?
I assume this is really only talking about mainstream home PCs. The big name brands. I mean, if Dell spends sum X on making new, 'pretty' cases for their PCs, and Gateway spends sum X minus Y on their cases which aren't that much 'uglier', doesn't Gateway win because they can offer the same performance/support (in theory) at a lower price, or offer more performance at the same price?
Truly, PC attractiveness is an enthusiast market, i.e. case modding. Otherwise, you're going to get something that looks like every other major brand PC: a stylized, but nevertheless cheaply made, box, so the company can compete price-wise.
Or, you can go with the 'high end' like Alienware, thereby paying an outrageous sum for the name and look. People who buy Alienware don't really care about the price.
Me, I'd rather buy the components and build my own. You can make a respectable looking box for a lot cheaper than what Alienware will charge you. There are cases out there that look damn good too. Mine is the NZXT Lexa.
Hell, if you really want a unique case, buy any one of the $50-100 cases and mod it to your liking. Though I get the feeling if you do that, you're not the kind of person who will be quite jumping for joy to get Vista when it is released.
TLF
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
Obviously not ;-)
OS X, Linux, Tivo, Amiga, my fascination with cult-like technologies would intrigue any psychiatrist.
I reviewed the origional post with some minor interest simply because I do believe that a PC is an appliance no different than a washer, dryer, or TV, and breaking away from the beige box or the now ubiquitous black pc is a pretty spiffy idea. But I don't see links to what Microsoft invisions as being the desktop of the future.
m /d_img/d3_mouse_20040423.aspxs px?newsid=2098
http://www.microsoft.com/japan/presspass/pressroo
http://www.microsoft.com/japan/presspass/detail.a
These are microsoft more radical designs for mice. Are we doomed to have a Groovy desktop, and I don't mean the blue version "moodring"... groovy orange keyboard, groovy orange monitor, groovy orange cables to your groovy printer.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
For the average pc user,
If it's fast and plays their average games, they don't care. They will rely on Norton or Mcafee to keep their computer safe.
For more experienced pc user,
They want speed and stability. If Vista isn't both of these, then they will probaly stick with XP. Plus be able to play their hardcore games.
For advanced computer user,
Vista will sell them if kernel is linux based.
\
I usually try not to just post opinion in comments but I really couldn't come up with any fact for this argument, so I guess it's philosophy from here on out.
I believe Microsoft went the wrong direction here. They attempted to change all hardware to suit them instead of making themselves adaptable to fit all, or most, hardware. It probably wouldn't be difficult for them, take the same amount of people that it took to make those design guidelines and tell them to make a few extra themes and colors for Vista.
Of course I could be wrong here It may be harder than that, I'm not sure. If I am wrong I would appreciate a reply a.s.a.p. correcting me for the benefit of anyone who may stumble across my ramblings.
I'm more likely to buy a pc based on features that relate to esthetics. Also, being quiet is a big plus for me. That's why I like liquid cooling on my desktop. Also, Micro atx cases are cool because they're so small and don't take up a lot of room on my "real" desktop. The problem with all this is: WHAT THE HECK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH AN OPERATING SYSTEM? Maybe Microsoft should focus on implementing nice features in their OS instead of worrying about what their box making partners do? Just a thought.
No Sigs!
I honestly couldn't care less if my case lit up brighter than the neon XXX signs I see while walk down the streets of New York City. I don't need an OS that will chompity-chomp ass on my system's resources. End of story.
"One day your going to wake up and realize that your not as witty as you think you are." -Me.
And of social status.
People will pay $100/ml for perfume but they won't pay $0.30/ml for exactly the same thing. The same for clothing, add the right badge and they'll pay 3000% more. Microsoft need to be able to justify the now relatively high price tag for the next version of their software so they're appealing to social desires rather than business ones. It's rather an admission that they're going to have difficulty competing on price/performance.
Deleted
It is a testament to Apple's marketing engine that they've built a brand identity and image that people buy into, despite it being entirely fictional. Even on Slashdot, where people are presumably technically savvy and have actually USED Macs, the Apple myth goes unchallenged.
Apple has constructed this idea that Macs are easy to use, trouble-free, capable, and that if you use a Mac you are smarter than others for choosing the Apple platform.
The problem here is that OSX isn't really an intuitive, easy to use operating system. Apple's idea of an intuitive design is to remove so much functionality that there's really a limited number of operations you can perform, thus not much to get confused about. The problem here is that there's really only one "Apple approved" way to do anything, and if you need to deviate from this for any reason, you'll find that the design offers no flexibility. Compare and contrast working with files in Windows Explorer to working with files in the Finder; Windows Explorer is faster, more intuitive, and vastly more functional. I've had the experience of teaching new computer users how to manage their files in both Windows XP and Mac OS X 10.4, in every case OSX is longer and more frustrating to learn.
Another huge myth is that Mac's are trouble-free. This is absolutely ridiculous. Apple hardware is notoriously unreliable, and repairs notoriously complex. It's a good thing that OSX is so easy to reinstall, because users are expected to do it a lot.
Apple is not the friendly, smart alternative to Microsoft that they want you to believe it is. They are a cut-throat corporation with a vastly more anti-consumer stance, that simply spends uncountable millions of dollars per year on advertising to try to convince you that they offer innovation and an end to the problems facing Windows users. Instead, they're preying on the ignorant and those who have a desperate need for a corporation to tell them that they're cool.
So, in closing, if you want to support Linux as an alternative to Vista, awesome. But if you think Apple is going to offer any kind of alternative that will allow you to avoid the trouble and abuse you've become used to from Microsoft, think again.
It's so people will be stuck with a pc that will look good with windows and look mismatched with anything else you could put on it. It will probably look better with the default theme of the desktop, but it will also look very tacky to anyone not on the computer. The linux thing is a bit of a non-issue because anyone should be able to easily change the theme(or have a default theme based on these new popular colors).
Most of the comments I have read on all this are either from Apple fanboys, who have no sense when talking about Microsoft, or techie/geeks/bloggers/etc that are in the know on the everyday tech news. The majority of the people who will see this as the next thing will be the mass of people who are not computer savvy. They will see a pretty PC with a flashy, graphical, easy to use interface from a world known company. They have no experience dealing with the different OS's from Apple, Microsoft, Linux, etc. If you really want to know how well this will do, put some polls out on sites like Ebay, MySpace, Hotmail, and other huge sites where the user base is made up of people who do not know the difference. Then you will get some real numbers on interest. Posting an article on a tech site is not they way to find out how most people feel about Microsoft's up and coming releases/plans/offerings/etc. It is a way to start a flame war between the Applites and Microsofties. Me, I'm a Googler and by products based on what I need it for while comparing prices/usability/compatibility/etc. Makes no difference to me who made it, so long as it works good and does what it is supposed to do.
grand gravey
All kidding aside, this isn't too bad a situation. It would be nice to get all the parts in one place instead of hunting down a nice case, a fast GPU, lotsa RAM, etc etc. Even barebones kits don't come with everything, and they tend to have dull cases. And yes, I know there are places where one can get outrageously styled (think Alienware) cases with hot-rod electronics, but that's not my thing. Give me a case that's attractive, yet semi-conservative and that would fit in at home or at the office and stuff it with the goods to perform wherever I need it. Give me good parts at a good price and I'll go the BYOOS (bring your own OS) route. Do that and make the case not an eye-sore, and I'll go that way faster. Do not, however, throw crap parts in an ugly--or worse yet, kindergarten-styled--case,throw in a P.O.S. operating system and charge me more than the stuff is worth.
Bottom line: attractive computers are nice, but only if they work right. Sadly, today's culture is fascinated with shiny things and doesn't care if those things are nothing more than sparkly paint on piles of crap.
"osake no hou ga, biiru yori ii" to omotteiru.
I have to say that the only - and I mean ONLY - reason why Vista is attractive to me is because they have finally, FINALLY learned not to seperate the best parts of their OS into fractional peices. Now, if I so choose, I can buy one Windows OS and have all the comforts of Media Center and, most importantly, their Tablet PC functions. The idea of not having to suffer through proprietary add-on pieces (a la what Acer does) that sit like pimples on a the visage of a great idea. (That they're deciding to splinter the OS in an equally quizzical way is certainly a headscratcher, though.)
:>
What is clearly NOT affecting my purchase of a PC operating system is how the case looks. It's like judging your Christmas presents on the quality of the wrapping paper. It scares me that so many people may actually be led to think that a prettier case means a better computer. If I want a 'pretty' computer, I'll give Alienware or Voodoo PC a ring. If they can get it to me cheap, I say let Joe's Custom Computers (or whomever) build it in any case they want, and as long as the system offers the performance I'm expecting.
Hmm . . . now to figure out how to do those Tablet functions in Linux . . .
Putting the 33k in G33k.
If Microsoft wants to make PC's objects of pure desire, a good first step would be selling them without Vista.
dada21 is quoted:
For most PC manufacturers, having their own "look and feel" has been part of what has given them a strong brand name. [Goes on to examine boost to little guys from common look-and-feel".
Seems to me that what the hardware companies who are establishing their own brand identity need is not a Microsoft-standard look-and-feel, which will detract from their hard-built brand identification.
Instead they need a way to customize the appearance of the software's look-and-feel. (Without affecting its ease-of-use or functionality, of course, so customers who learned on something else can feel at home despite their prettifications.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Microsoft is as cool as a corporate cubicle.
They just have no any corporate clue to be cool. They have been in the business for so long, and this is the first time when they seem to be concerned with this.
And now when they finally woke up, they want the OEMs to do that for them? Where do these guys live?
When was the last time when Ferrari asked the tire supplier to make their cars cool?
Companies put huge, expensive efforts to develope cool design.
Does Microsoft really think, that Korean parts makers designed iPod for Apple?
Just put them in Lian Li cases
the popularity of case modding would suggest that looks do matter. i think we need to keep that in mind!
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
It boils down to putting a turd in a fancy box instead of a plain one. What's inside is still a turd.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
"Not everybody wants to upgrade to some shiny new untested environment."
That's why I'm running kernel 2.2 and a command line.
When I first heard about this recommendation from Microsoft, the first thing that came to mind was the stereotypical Used Car Lot where they dress up their vehicles to look fantastic....but a week after the purchase the thing falls apart. I have nothing against Microsoft, but to me it seems like they want the PC manufacturers to do the marketing work for them or they don't think Vista can sell itself (e.g. Vista doesn't work right, but at least it will look pretty turned off!).
The original poster has the worst anti-Mac sentiment I've read in years!
Let's look at some facts, shall we?
1. Apple as cut-throat corporation (just like MS, you say?). I can't say I agree. For starters, say you need several copies of your OS for 4 or 5 computers your family owns and uses. Microsoft's way? Buy one for each PC, or buy a PC pre-loaded with our OS, and we'll keep tabs on you with our "genuine advantage" system to make sure you comply! Apple's way? Buy a discounted "family pack" of OS X, legal to install on up to 5 Macs! No phoning-home by the OS or need to call in for a new CD key code if you change your hardware around too much. For that matter, have you ever called in to Apple for technical help before? It's a *vastly* more pleasant experience, on the whole, than practically any other computer company offers today. Last time I dealt with HP or Dell, I was on hold upwards of 30 minutes before I even got to speak with a human! With Apple, never had a hold time over about 5 mins.
2. Macs trouble-free? Well, no - this is obviously just marketing at work. But computers have been around long enough that by now, most people should realize this as the exaggeration it is. What they want you to get from the marketing-speak is the idea that Macs *generally* give a user less headache. I'd say that much is quite true! I've done countless on-site service calls on PCs that "got real slow and started crashing on me all the time" or "starting popping up these weird errors". Ended up being huge messes of trojan horse viruses and spyware. Never had that YET on a Mac. I can also say that many commonly performed tasks are made easier on a Mac with the included applications than on a PC with its included set of apps. EG. Need to email somebody a photo? In Windows, you better know what you're doing to resize that picture that just came off your 8 megapixel camera, or the recipient might not even have enough email storage quota to receive the thing! On the Mac's "Mail" app, the user is asked as soon as he/she drags/drops in a photo if they'd like it resized small, medium or large (original size).
3. Even Microsoft likes the Mac! Microsoft's Mac Business Unit is their most profitable unit, when you factor in the cost they incur running it vs. profit it makes for them! MS Office was initially written not for Windows PCs, but for Macs! So if you simply take a stance that "If Microsoft likes it, it's BAD!" - then I guess you have to stick to using something like Linux. But if you're like most normal people, you realize that Apple is just a business trying to make money, like all others, and what they're offering isn't too shabby.
Windows Vista is still a microsoft product last time I checked. The one thing I like about PCs is that you can choose the hardware and the OS. The design of a machine has absolutely zero impact on me to what kind of machine I buy. I buy a computer for whats under the hood. And more importantly I don't buy "designer" machines I build my own. And frankly if I don't have to use Vista, I won't. The problem is that the industry will gradually move all Vista just like it did for XP. Luckly, I was fortuate enough not to have to pay for a copy of XP to recieve it legally. Not everyone is so fortunate. Quite often I run a dual boot Linux/windows box anyway and as Linux continues to fill more and more of my needs I will eventually reach a point where I can drop Microsoft all together. Will sexy boxes help sell more PCs? Possibly. Will it help sell more versions of Vista? Possibly. Will it matter to me. Absolutely not.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. ~Albert Einstein
PC replacements in their kitchen appliances, media centers, cell phones, laptops^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hnotebooks, "smart tvs".
Face it, the desktop PC won't be around forever.
I do mind, and so should you.
You can read this article for a few reasons why, but essentially it means poorer quality hardware that is designed to break, and be unrepairable, while filling our landfills with toxic lead and other garbage from devices that should work for ten years or more.
We need to start charging companies that build devices and tools with no way to recycle or reuse them. Thanks to the FCC and digital TV, TV sets are about to fill up your city landfill and make your taxes go up. That's one reason why you should care.
Oh You POS
Most of us don't need the Pentium 6 12Ghz chip to check email, watch porn and program PHP, do we? ;)
You admit that you program PHP?!?! (just kidding;)
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
And these new PCs will have Vista pre-installed. Which will, in turn cause Vista to be yet another System requirement.
My scepticism tells me that Microsoft and Intel HAD to have worked together on this.
I am really appalled at the extent you people will go to bash winXP. Hey i'm no xp lover but lets be real, with a little TLC, it can be made to behave. That right, XP is my bitch, and she does whatever I tell her to do. Here is how i do it:
/. reader, very occasional poster. And my login never seems to "log in".
1)Get rid of explorer as the Window Manger, install Blackbox -> BBlean or BB4win. This gives you a *fast*, extremely programmable, functional, minimalistic coder's heaven enviornment that can be beautified as much as you want to. See www.boxshots.org to see what's possible.
2) Use firefox (or Opera if you swing that way). Block all ads using the adblock superlist. If you surf porn, use firefox. If you download crackz, use firefox. Or how about, don't suf porn and don't steal shit?
3) If you don't want to do BlackBox, install the UXtheme patcher, and use the shellstyles from deviantart.com. These make windows look pretty darn good. Also put in TrueLaunchBar this a little resourse friendly widget bar for your taskbar. Worth the money imho.
4) Disable all unneeded services, set xp to show all hidden files and not hide extensions, winamp, zoomplayer and a few codes later, you are all set!
So come on slashdotters.. give windows a break. It definately is NOT a pile of turd that needs to have perfume sprayed on it.
-spy
Posting as AC because I'm a long time
Microsoft is a big company, a lot bigger than many of the companies that build the parts which their OS is used on, so they can afford to do the research, and concerns about their position as a Software Vendor aside, they're also a neutral party when it comes to the hardware market. They can provide guidelines to everybody, and in a fair way.
Besides, anybody who has a major Vendor PC and see that they've put money into making their systems thematically unified, from the boxes the computers ship in, to the desktop, to the mouse and keyboard, to the computer itself.
And I know for a fact that there are plenty of people who do the same sort of thing in the Open-Source camp. The number of themes for various KDE, Gnome, and X is pretty huge, so obviously there are some folks that care. Maybe some of you folks don't care, but other people clearly do.
If Microsoft wants to do it, well, more power to them. It's not like they're doing anything that the makers of TVs, washing machines, refrigerators and automobiles haven't been doing for years.
I don't care really what it looks like as long as it is quiet and is outta of the way... I have two mahcines.. an Aopen MiniPC (915-B) and a do it yourself Athlon ATX case and the Mini is much more enjoyable to sit at just because it is quiet..
That is the highest selling point for me on my next desktop.
I truly hope these "guidelines" don't roll over to the DIY market. I would hate to see Antec, Chieftech and the like conforming to case appearance standards just to please Microsoft. This would be a huge kick in the balls for people building computers for themselves or friends.. or even some small-time shops.
"Let's put some lipstick on this pig!"
The responses on here: Vista is junk, Ubuntu rocks, it doesn't work, I'd rather buy an apple, OSX so much safer, I'll stick with my XP blah blah blah ... Completely useless. It's funny that people here seem to think it's evil of MS to go ahead and make some design suggestions for OEMs that may sell more machines for them. Those OEMs won't be selling to many of the people here, because we're all into building it our own way anyways. And if it's not quite to our liking out of the box, out comes the dremmel and the bondo! So why complain? Think of the comedy of "Mac-ing" a vista-box!
I personally don't care about any MS recommendations, because it doesn't affect me or what I will buy. I don't like bigass alien cases with glowing eyes and a mouth that opens to eject the dvd and that farts smoke when you kill your buddy while online gaming. I don't like the 90s staple beige gross looking apartment air-conditioner enamel-painted boxes (although I do miss the 'turbo' button). I also wouldn't like a 'vista-esque' case. But some people would! I do like my utilitarian aluminum Lian-Li box with easy to remove case parts and caddies so I can add, modify and replace easily as I need to. --> that's just me.
Sure sex sells, and I'm sure that someone somewhere has case-modded their pc into a blow-up doll, but all of these comments / rants / 'ms sux' comments are all completely pointless here because 99% of the readers of this site couldn't give a rat's tit about a 'vista-esque' case, you'll just build whatever you think looks the best. And guess what? Some people on this planet will think that the vista-esque case looks good and will buy it. Oh and guess what, MS will sell a lot of Vista too. Suck it up.
Isn't that a bit like putting on a tux to go out dumpster diving?
(no pun intended)
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Okay, I read the original discussion and now this one.
My question is: Where are these design guides? Are they publically available? All the talk here on Slashdot is just talk. Without seeing the recommendations, we don't know how much value they bring.
There might be something insightful about them, but without reading them, how will anyone know?
A computer is much like a woman. You wouldn't want to marry a woman based only on her aesthetic qualities. So why would you want to buy a computer just for its looks?
Her intelegence, cognintive abilities, helpfulness, strength, and friendliness should also be considered.
Microsoft has pretty much given up on the core focus of Vista, which is to provide a better operating system that replaces Windows XP. Now they want computer manufactures to create "pretty computers" as a way to draw consumers to buy a new computer. This is what Apple did back in 1998 when int introduced the iMac. The bad part about that is that people who prefer the "beige boxes" instead of the "pretty boxes" become less interested in replacing old computer equipment if the new equipment comes in a variety of flameboyant colors. I, myself, believe that computers, or any other consumer electronics for the record, should come in only one color: BLACK!
If you want you computer to stand out and be noticed or if you want to personalize you computer, put some stickers on it or build a custom box from scratch.
Making the computer pretty does NOT make it perform better. If anything, it states that the computer manufacturers are trying to compnesate for what people who don't let pretty cases phase them: PERFORMANCE and QUALITY.
Some times it is better to go out with the nerdy goth chick than the pretty bimbo.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
Woman?
Woman Nothing... You mean Computer Ditz.
My boyfriend is a complete idiot when it comes to computers (He actually had to ASK me if I thought that the Nigerian email was a fake, and he and his little friends regularly trash the Windoze machine by installing something they shouldn't or turning off the antivirus to play a game, without disconnecting from the internet). I am the IT admin in our house.
I've been trying to convince him that a MacBook would be a great investment for me, for Uni, (and also cos I am a complete whore for apple products) but he has been unimpressed by all my talk of core duo processors, dual booting, and ssh, and wireless networking.
I took him to an apple store and SHOWED the macbook to him, and now he is in love.
He not only is willng to buy me a macbook, but he wants to get me the black macbook cos it 'looks nicer' even though I explained we would be paying extra money just for its COLOUR.
Its not just women, its PEOPLE that know nothing about computers.
Is the whole idea behind the beautification of hardware to appeal to the brand whores and fashion followers like in the mobile/cellular market?
Once you have a machine which fulfils you needs (which in most cases is web browsing and work processing) why upgrade? Because your friends have the latest style, the coolest colour and different shape one would have to assume.
We'll just end up in the same place as I feel the mobile market is now. It looks pretty, you have to have be carrying latest model but be damned if you can pickup a call without waiting ages for the pretty interface to show.
see, they have already given up on doing anything that really takes effort to make their product more attractive. Stupid things like security, minimum bugs (mistakes) or interoperability. Looks like this is all they have left!
Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.
It's been 7 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
Yeah, well, it may be a lot longer before I post the next one! Way to make yourself irrelevant!
As someone that had about 10 Macs prior to OS X, the thing that bothers me most about them now is the Mac culture, and the fact that they are elitist status symbols. I probably won't ever buy one because of it, but then I probably won't ever buy an SUV either.
if its news that matters, if you have to rehash it then it wasnt that important
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
OK - So i work for a tv studio and edit video for a living. Just to start XP has enough holes right now that if i want to actualy edit video (or any other process intensive app) i have to defrag every 5 min and keep my editing PC off of my home network entierly. -- Yeah if i did this on a Mac i would probably make life easier for myself - but the thing is that to a point microsoft has every market cornered. Just because they are "microsft", the novice PC users that make up 80% of the world say "ok thats what most other people have so i will go with windows too" - and thats what microsft wants. Even now MS wants to go and put their mark on OEM's - thus pushing the microsft branding even furthur into people's faces. The problem is that if your not a regular mac user then you have no idea whats going on because your only refrence is windows. Apple can only bash the windows reputation and get no where with it in the process.
Sig's are for people who feel humorous.
You know your OS is crap when you resort to making someone spiff up the external ediface.
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
oh joy, not only do you get to deal with a crappy OS, now you may be forced to deal with a crappy looking case.
Lizard "Never let them set limits on your mind!"
This is just so much sexist shit.
When I poured coffee into the screen of my laptop, I did a fairly comprehensive search, and ended up buying the exact laptop one of my girlfriends already had. I think our criteria were pretty similar!
Xenu loves you!
First of all, vista is fugly. From the demos I've seen it's just the same XP toyish looking interface with a few new space consuming additions. You can't possibly compare it to OS X's elegance.
Perhaps big OEMs will try to make their mchines look better now that MS really wants that, but the smaller OEMs, which are the majority of OEMs and usually the kind of stuff that people buy most of the time, only consider price as a factor and if it can look OK while fulfilling that purpose, so be it.
o hai
Windows Fister may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know, cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfucker.
Seriously, it going to be years and years. At home I've got a Win2k partition for games, Ubuntu for everything else. I work for a *huge* corporate that is still on the NT-to-XP treadmill, so I won't be seeing it in work anytime soon either.
-- Nick "Hallo this is Beel Gates, und I pronounce weendows as
Didn't Bill say that he wanted to put a turd on every desktop?
I know ladies that know exactly what they are buying and why.
And if they don't they ask the right questions.
When you are spending such a serious amount of money only a stupid person (woman or otherwise) would base his decitions in the factors you are mentioning. The gender of a person doing a purchased based in the worng reasons is completely incidental.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It's like the tags in various markup langages.
You must open it at begining and close it at the end.
Otherwise, the syntax interpreter in language area of your users' brain may start spilling error messages.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Slogan should be:
And yes, of course it will work, not because we are human but because human consumers are generally stupid.
i dont know about others, but im not going to use vista for sure. NO! and this is not just your regular MS bashing. Ive started using ubuntu regularly, and im confident that when vista is released, i will be very comfortable with linux. and not to forget, XP will live for another 3 years or so, and that is pretty nice... and to the main topic, no pretty pc's will not make vista more lucrative. at least thats what i hope
what ever, now microsoft is trying to controll the look, whatever. can you imagine the frankinstein things that will come out with this.
Well, you too can buy a volume license for Windows. It's true.
i just bought a new Dell E510 and it looks great. Microsoft obviously cant see that some computers on the market (Dell, Alienware) already look good and changing them would be stupid. Also they cant see that their cases arent the parts that sell systems. Who is Microsoft hoping to attract with "pretty" cases anyway? Interior decorators?
Running from the law definitely wasnt as easy as they made it look on the Dukes of Hazzard --Joy, My Name is Earl (2006