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Beyond DirectX 10 - A glance at DirectX 10.1

Hanners1979 writes "Although we still appear to be some way away from the release of Windows Vista, and with it DirectX 10, specifications for the first point release of the 3D graphics API, DirectX 10.1, have already been finalised and largely made public. Elite Bastards looks at what's new and what will be changing in this release, set to become available not all that long after DirectX 10 — There's more to it than you might imagine."

236 comments

  1. Thanks /. by Psychotic_Wrath · · Score: 0, Interesting

    well that didn't take long /. great timing

    --

    Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
  2. Looks to be a good release by nusuni · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I was reading this and was amazed to see "DirectX 10.1 will also see the introduction of full application control over anti-aliasing" ..... hasn't that been a feature in OpenGL for quite some time? At least it looks like 10.1 will be decent and will have some nice performance improvements, especially with page-fault handling. Is it just me or are GPUs becoming computers on a chip? Thankfully DirectX has grown up since the days of 1995/98... ick

  3. sounds boring by gooberguy25 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    can they make it sound more impresive than a measly point one?

    1. Re:sounds boring by EnsilZah · · Score: 1, Funny

      You mean like 'DirectX 10.1 - Liger'?

    2. Re:sounds boring by gooberguy25 · · Score: 0

      whats wrong with 11?

    3. Re:sounds boring by plopez · · Score: 1

      11
      for when you need that little extra 'push' to go over the edge.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  4. WHOM by mnemonic_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    ACCUSATIVE YOU SON OF A BITCH

    1. Re:WHOM by SpottedKuh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed, you are correct that "whom," as opposed to "who," should have been used. However, I believe the term "accusative" does not apply to the distinction between "who" and "whom" in English. I believe the terms that should be used are "subjective" (who) or "objective" (whom).

      In modern English, the accusative and dative cases that existed in Old English (and are still used in modern languages such as German) collapsed into a single objective usage. That is, "whom" can be used either as a direct object pronoun, corresponding to an accusative usage in other languages ("Whom did you hit?"); or, it can be used as an indirect object pronoun, corresponding to a dative usage in other languages ("To whom did you give the apple?"). There's a much better explanation here.

    2. Re:WHOM by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let my failure to use the objective case be an indication of the severity of my anger.

    3. Re:WHOM by Dlugar · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      Indeed, you are correct that "whom," as opposed to "who," should have been used. However, I believe the term "accusative" does not apply to the distinction between "who" and "whom" in English. I believe the terms that should be used are "subjective" (who) or "objective" (whom).

      Actually, "accusative" just means "objective case" (used to mark the direct object of a transitive verb). The link you posted lists "whom" as being able to be used in Modern English as the accusative, dative, or instrumental. "Objective" is a common way to refer to the accusative case in English however.

      Dlugar
      --
      Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
    4. Re:WHOM by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, predicate nominative. "I'm going to hit somebody, and I won't care who [it is that I hit]."

      The GP is correct, and the parent is wrong.

  5. Hopefully... by Ichigo+Kurosaki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the next gen of videocards wait for this technology or include it so we don't have really short lived video cards.

  6. Re:If I hear "DirectX" this or "DirectX" that agai by radiotyler · · Score: 4, Funny

    DirectX.


    DirectX! DirectX! DirectX!

    --
    hi mom!
  7. DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DirectX does not seem a good standard for the industry to follow. DX9 came out how long ago? It seems as if 3D technology advances have slowed down. Yes there have been updates to DX9, but I don't really remember anything that was exciting. Yes, there has been talk about DX10 and the changes it would bring, but now it's known that it's Vista only. That's why it has taken so long. So the industry is waiting for Vista to finally have implementation of their new graphics features? Sounds like a bad move. What if MS delays Vista? What then? Are the graphic chip makers gonna sit and wait? What we need is an actual open industry standard. Bring back OpenGL so we can make improvements as they come, and not having to wait for Microsoft to lead it where they feel they can control it to make money, and continue locking out other platforms.

    1. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      DX is the best thing to ever happen to computer gaming.

      DX9 been around for a while? Well please enumerate for us all what features you were 'missing out on'. DX9 was already ahead of it's time if you recall: most of the DX9 features werent even supported (or fully supported) by the king of the hill video cards at the time it was released.

      Look at how great computer graphics were charging forward without Direct X. Um... yeah, right. Programmers are the ones driving acceptance of DirectX, not "teh ev1l M$ monopoly". Apple is a monopoly too, but I don't see great games exclusive to Apple.

    2. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bring back OpenGL?

      OpenGL is alive and well. It would be great if some of the Windows developers started using it though, since they are in the majority. Please, feel free to join the rest of the world.

    3. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by EvilMerlin · · Score: 0, Informative

      For the LAST time, DirectX != OpenGL.

      Direct3D is more like OpenGL, DirectX includes a whole boat load of stuff OpenGL can't even think about touching, stuff like DirectPlay and DirectSound for starters.

      People, especially those who love the anti-Microsoft FUD, shoult better educate themselves before attempting to speak about Microsoft...

    4. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by mikael · · Score: 1

      The problem is that new features are introduced instantaneously by Microsoft into DirectX, but there
      tends to be a delay with the same features becoming univerally available on all graphics hardware (ARB, EXT extensions), although vendors are free to introduce their own custom extensions.

      If you're an application developer wanting to develop a bleeding edge application for the PC, you're more or less forced to use DirectX.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    5. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Jartan · · Score: 1

      I think DirectX sucks for a variety of reasons but the truth of the matter is there are no real video card features DX9 doesn't currently implement. Neither Nvidia or ATI have yet to release a card with the new feature sets in DX10.

      Even then it makes me wonder what the point is. When games like WoW get all the headlines using technology that barely require DX8. Maybe if you are into FPS games this will matter but for everyone else the featureset you are calling dated far outpaced the software that runs on it years ago.

      I'm pretty skeptical of how OpenGL will survive in games now that Carmack has sold out. It's a bleak future for those of us gamers who want to someday drop Windows and use a real OS.

    6. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by peipas · · Score: 5, Funny

      What if MS delays Vista?

      Are you crazy? MS would never delay Vista!

    7. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by eebra82 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I think DirectX sucks for a variety of reasons but the truth of the matter is there are no real video card features DX9 doesn't currently implement. Neither Nvidia or ATI have yet to release a card with the new feature sets in DX10."

      Well, you can run games using older versions of DirectX in Vista, so how exactly is this a problem. DirectX 10 isn't out yet and you're complaining about the lack of DX10 cards? ATI and nVidia are on development cycles and they would obviously not include DX10 support on current graphics cards, simply because DX10 wasn't mature when today's architecture was under development. I am very sure both nVidia and ATI are dying to get DX10 cards out as soon as Vista is out, since selling the first fully Vista compatible cards is a huge thing. You can't expect today's tech to support something that isn't even released yet. That doesn't make sense.

      Even then it makes me wonder what the point is. When games like WoW get all the headlines using technology that barely require DX8. Maybe if you are into FPS games this will matter but for everyone else the featureset you are calling dated far outpaced the software that runs on it years ago.

      Excuse me, but are you even aware of how many of today's games rely heavily on DX9 technology? You are also saying that games like World of WarCraft barely use any DX9 tech. Do you have any documentation on that? Also, what is "games like WoW"? In fact, many "games like WoW" today use pixel shaders and therefore require DX9. Yes, FPS games are clearly taking advantage of the latest technology, but the simple reason is that realism is far more important in such games than, say, strategy games. But on the other hand, there are so many types of FPS titles. We have racing games, action games, MMORPG and even adventure games. World of WarCraft may not be the most graphically advanced game, but this is for three main reasons: it's huge and would simply require too many gigs of space if it was more complex than it already is. Blizzard is also targeting a larger mass who isn't constantly upgrading its hardware as much as some other groups do. Last but not least, have you ever thought of how much more time and money Blizzard would have to invest to include the latest technology with the highest level of detail?

      I'm pretty skeptical of how OpenGL will survive in games now that Carmack has sold out. It's a bleak future for those of us gamers who want to someday drop Windows and use a real OS.

      You know, Carmack has all the money in the world already. I doubt he would kiss Microsoft's ass if OpenGL was more promising than DirectX. After all, as a DirectX developer, you also get to release your games for the Xbox without too much hazzle, which is only one of many reasons why DirectX is more successful. OpenGL is in no way a poor API, but most developers currently support DirectX because it looks more promising than OpenGL. Also, Carmack was one of the main donators to the OpenGL foundation. Why would he fund a project like this and then kill it? I'm sure it was painful but as Carmack is always set on developing the latest in technology, he is also looking at the two API:s individually before deciding what to go for.

    8. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the next best step for DirectX is for Microsoft to give up control over it's design.

    9. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by yoyhed · · Score: 1
      You make great points and I agree with you, but I had to point out that pixel shaders were actually implemented in DirectX 8.1. When I had an FX5700 I was able to get the pretty water and bump mapping in newer games like HL2, Guild Wars, and Far Cry.

      However, there were more effects available in DX9 and the 8.1 effects looked better in 9 anyway. In addition, most modern DX games use features of 9 that make them look visibly worse on older cards (in other words, you're right.)

      --
      WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
    10. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you're trolling, but he isn't referring to interfacing. He's just saying that DirectX offers a lot of functionality that goes beyond a 3D API such as Direct3D and OpenGL. Although Direct3D is certainly the most prominent component.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    11. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by tolan-b · · Score: 1

      Id and Epic seem to manage to use GL (and I presume SDL or something similar). Last time I checked their stuff was pretty bleeding edge no?

    12. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch the videos on channel 9, Expression Designer (i think) was written using OpenGL.

      They 'hope' to port it to DirectX for v2 or 3

    13. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      As the other poster already pointed out, DX8 is the first version that supported shaders. Also, using more advanced shaders do not grow the size of the game by "too many gigs of space", shaders are quite tiny, usually under a few kbytes in size. In fact, if a game uses some of the more advanced procedural shaders that become a realistic possibility with DX10, the size of the game will decrease as some of the art is generated at runtime instead of being handcrafted and stored in the game data. Otherwise agreeable.

    14. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by mikael · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree that ID's and Epic's products are bleeding edge. But that is for the high
      end game user who more or less buys a new graphics card for the game.

      I have attended interviews with small startup companies who were developing 3d home user applications for general use. Because they were dealing with a wide variety of legacy graphics cards, they could only use the most commonly used features available under all
      API's. So they stay with DirectX.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    15. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that the next id engine is going to also support OpenGL as well as Direct3D don't you? They want to have Xbox 360 as a native platform for it, so they're doing a Direct3D renderer in addition to an OpenGL one. There's going to be native Linux and OS X versions of it that will use the OpenGL support.

    16. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by dbc001 · · Score: 1

      Ha ha. I'm actually considering moving from windows 2000 to Windows XP over the next few months!

    17. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ppc_digger · · Score: 1

      Ha ha. I'm actually considering moving from windows 2000 to Windows XP over the next few months!

      Just make sure you watch out for Blaster when it comes out next year!

      --
      Of all major operating systems, UNIX is the only one originally meant for gaming.
    18. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You're picking on a lazy abbreviation. By far the biggest, most useful part of DirectX IS Direct3D, which is directly comparable to OpenGL. The rest is fairly minor stuff and is covered either by APIs on other platforms or even platform independent toolkits.

      If game developers were to drop Direct3D in favour of OpenGL their games would be MUCH more portable. They'd still have to port the DirectSound stuff (if they're using it) and possibly DirectPlay, but the preponderance of Linux servers in at least FPS suggests that not all that many of the most popular games use it anyway. DirectPlay code would probably take about ten minutes to port to another OS if your game was written properly.

      Microsoft's locking up of the game market through their proprietary DirectX API is not FUD. You sound like a fanboy when you say it.

    19. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It's not so much that Microsoft supports new hardware features very quickly in DirectX but rather that MS dictates those features and then the hardware vendors follow. I saw a post here that nVIDIA was going to start pushing OpenGL harder though. If nVIDIA and ATI banded together and told MS to screw off they'd get to develop things in their own direction again, which I think would be a good thing. That would put DirectX (sorry, 3D as the MS fanboy pointed out) back on an even footing with OpenGL.

      Personally, I'd much rather see ARB, a group of companies who actually do graphics, deciding what new generations of graphics cards are going to be like than Microsoft.

    20. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by Mac+Degger · · Score: 1

      "After all, as a DirectX developer, you also get to release your games for the Xbox without too much hazzle,"

      Hehe...not really. They (MS) said that, but look at reality. "Oh, yeah, now it's XNA which is gonna make it so easy to port stuff...". How many times are you gonna accept being lied to?

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
    21. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by omgamibig · · Score: 1

      Doesn't id software and epic games stuff run natively on linux with opengl? And how many developers licensed those engines? Quite a bunch. It shouldn't be too hard for them to keep support for linux and opengl.

    22. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by MSFanBoi2 · · Score: 1

      You haven't used DirectX then have you? Sure Direct3D is handy, very handy, but so is, as was stated, DirectPlay and DirectSound.

      Show me how either is minor, and covered by other API's that are as easy to use...

      Developers DON'T want portable. For every 100 Windows games that get sold, maybe 3 or 4 other platforms get sold. Why waste the time. That is EXACTLY what most developers are saying.

    23. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Well, DirectSound is covered by CoreAudio on the Mac. Someone else here mentioned a platform independent audio API. DirectPlay isn't a bad idea, but it would be a lot more useful if it was open. I assume the FPS that have Linux servers either hack something up on Linux that can talk to DirectPlay or just don't use it at all.

      It would definitely be nice to have good open APIs for both of those just like OpenGL does for Direct3D. Still, graphics code make up the biggest part of the average game (certainly compared to sound and multiplayer protocols) so it's the graphics that's the major porting job. Unless you use OpenGL.

      Yes, that is what most game developers are saying. I think they might be well served to look beyond the ends of their noses and realize that they now depend nearly entirely on one of their most dangerous competitors (MS makes games too, you know) for the API that is absolutely critical to their products.

    24. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by MSFanBoi2 · · Score: 1

      People also seem to easily forget that Vista has FULL and NATIVE support for OpenGL... and it's still up to the hardware OEMs to provide OpenGL drivers, else Vista falls back and supports DirectX doing OpenGL like previous versions of Windows.

      People like you seem to forget that damn near 99% of the gaming market is Windows only with a very small subset for the MacOS... its been said, by developers, repeatedly, that developing a SKU for Linux is a total waste of time and money. Mostly due to the fact that most Linux folks think everything should be free (as in beer) and have no problems making copies for others (witness Quake when it was released as a Linux SKU and it's tracking iD did of bootleg copies).

    25. Re:DirectX does not seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      A while ago there was quite a bit of doubt whether OpenGL would be supported by MS on Vista. I'm glad they've decided to do that.

      No, people don't forget that virtually all of the gaming market is on Windows. That fact keeps coming up, again and again. Of course, most of the gaming market is on Windows because... most of the gaming market is on Windows. MS has nicely locked that one up. I love it when the majority here complains about MS's monopoly and then plays right along with them.

      Regardless of whether there's another platform that's worth porting to or not, it is NOT healthy for the industry to have MS dictating the graphics API and through that telling the card makers what they're going to be doing when. Remember, MS MAKES GAMES TOO.

  8. GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by cos(x) · · Score: 5, Informative

    GPU shader processors certainly are Turing complete and there are plenty of people (ab-)using them for general purpose calculations. See for example http://www.gpgpu.org/. For some types of calculations, GPUs are much faster than CPUs due to their massively parallel processing. In fact, I have written my thesis on that very topic, comparing CPU and GPU based implementations of some algorithms.

    1. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by codename.matrix · · Score: 1

      sounds like a very interesting topic for a thesis. Have you published your thesis somewhere on the web?

    2. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by cos(x) · · Score: 1

      I will... when I submit it this Friday :). I am fixing up some last typos and getting it into shape right now. I'll put it on http://www.fabianowski.eu/, which is an empty website for now.

    3. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by woot+account · · Score: 1

      I find your ideas interesting and wish to subscribe to your journal.

    4. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by cide1 · · Score: 1

      A piece of hardware can never be turing complete. Turing completeness requires infinite memory. Programming langauages, or in ths case, instruction sets are.

      --
      -- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
    5. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by Corngood · · Score: 1

      To be fair (since you are nitpicking), he said 'GPU shader processors', which to me doesn't specify the memory subsystem. Also, if infinite memory is required, how can the instruction set be considered Turing complete on its own if it's incapable of addressing infinite memory?

    6. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by macklin01 · · Score: 1

      Send me a note when you get it up. I may be able to work a cite into my dissertation later this fall. :-) -- Paul

      --
      OpenSource.MathCancer.org: open source comp bio
    7. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by tetabiate · · Score: 1

      Imagine a beowulf cluster of these... Seriously, what is the estimated price/performance ratio of a GPU compared to that of a CPU?

    8. Re:GPUs already are "computers on a chip" by baadger · · Score: 1

      blog dude, the word you're looking for is blog.

  9. Would it be that difficult... by miro+f · · Score: 0, Redundant

    to include Direct X 10 in XP? This has to be one of the worst examples of extortion that MS have done in a long time.

    Let's hope that most games stick with DirectX 9 (or OpenGL... one can only wish)

    --
    being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    1. Re:Would it be that difficult... by mastergoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't understand what everyone wants Microsoft to do with their next version of windows. Before everyone was complaining that they needed to ditch all the legacy code and clean things up, and now everyone is pissed off that new software for vista won't be backwards compatible. You've got to drop backwards compatibility sometime, if you want to get rid of legacy code.

    2. Re:Would it be that difficult... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Good luck with that wish.. If the stuck with old standards, then you wouldnt be forced to upgrade..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:Would it be that difficult... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Here's the problem: Microsoft reputedly shipped DirectX 10.0 on Windows XP to video card manufacturers so they can develop DirectX 10-optimized drivers.

      Obviously, if that rumour is actually true, Microsoft is pulling a fast one on "consumers" just to force an upgrade. They know that their market share is in danger (ref: OS X on x86 and being only a baby step away from licensing to OEMs when Jobs comes to his senses, Linux rapidly maturing over the last three to four years, etc.) so they need a short-term boost in their revenue stream.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    4. Re:Would it be that difficult... by I'm+Don+Giovanni · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't have been difficult to add Spotlight and Dashboard to OSX Panther rather than making those features exclusive to OSX Tiger, yet Slashdotters praised Apple's decision to the high-heavens.

      Besides that obvious double standard, I like how slashdotters gleefully mocked MS for removing features from Vista and/or backporting features to XP, thus lowering incentive to upgrade to Vista, and at the same time bitch at MS for keeping a new feature exclusive to Vista. (Not the consistency has ever been a halmark of slashdotters to begin with.)

      --
      -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
    5. Re:Would it be that difficult... by MioTheGreat · · Score: 1

      DirectX 10 relies on the completely new WDDM driver display model for Vista. Hell, DirectX 9 games can't even run on DirectX 10. They've got to include both versions in Vista. A few developers have said that any efforts on their part to backport DirectX to the old driver model would have resulted in DX10 features being scrapped, performance hits, and further delays.

    6. Re:Would it be that difficult... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would it be that difficult for apple to add all of the OSX "pack" features to the version it succeeds? Now THAT's extortion. XP has had a long support window and will be getting DX9L, what more do you want?

      DX10 is a whole different beast and while I'm sure it can be hacked to work under XP who knows how the new driver model interacts with it.

    7. Re:Would it be that difficult... by Assmasher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is the driver model for DX10 does not work well for the XP WDDM. I assure you they, and all the game publishers, wanted 10 to be available for as many Windows versions as possible. The break with the driver model was fundamental to several things but especially multi-head/multi-device hardware acceleration, changes to the cooperative nature of the 2D and 3D aspects of the video cards (both for fundamental re-factoring of the nature of DirectX Graphics and for the needs of advanced rendering systems like the Vista UI layer.) There's a bunch of great things about DX10 that could have been put into XP but there are other, more fundamental, architectural moves which have great performance benefits and future design benefits going forward.

      Personally, I can't wait to see how well displacement mapping will make real-time terrain generation vastly simpler and adaptive to level of detail (doing this now is a fair amount of work.)

      --
      Loading...
    8. Re:Would it be that difficult... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's more than one person on Slashdot. Some of these people have differing opinions on many topics.

      Slashdot is mostly only inconsistant if you make the mistake of treating it as a single entity.

      But you knew that already.

    9. Re:Would it be that difficult... by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is no more forcing consumers to upgrade than Apple is. You want DX 10 games? Upgrade. You want [generic functionality that could easily be in Tiger, but is instead in Leopard only]? Upgrade. Because if we're honest, 99% of Leopard's functionality /could/ be in Tiger, but it won't, it'll be another $150 upgrade, so this isn't just MS being 'teh evil'.

    10. Re:Would it be that difficult... by NiroZ · · Score: 1

      no, its both apple AND microsoft being 'teh evil'. remember, just because apple does it does not make it ok.

      --
      now a little to the left
    11. Re:Would it be that difficult... by antoinjapan · · Score: 1

      Linux is just as bad...I can't download any packages for 286 anymore....I was forced to upgrade to a 386 ages ago....how long before I have to buy a 486???? Some people can't buy new technology every ten years you know...

    12. Re:Would it be that difficult... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      WTF? Standard Linux never ran on the 286 because it doesn't have the right memory management functions or somesuch. You'd have to get a special cut-down version (uCLinux?) for that.

      In other words, your post makes no sense. And, while I'm aware that you were probably trying to make a joke, it isn't funny either.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  10. Article Text by insane_machine · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just by reading this article title, it may seem rather like we're getting ahead of ourselves here - After all, we still have another handful of DirectX 9 boards to come from ATI, never mind being a fair few months away from the launch of Windows Vista, and with it the latest iteration of the DirectX API, DirectX 10.

    Nonetheless, despite all this, DirectX 10 is likely to see a number of point revisions during its lifespan and the first of these, imaginatively titled DirectX 10.1, will be the first of these. It may surprise some of you reading this, but the features which will be added by DirectX 10.1 have already been decided upon and information made available about them, so in this article we'll be taking a look through what we can expect to see in DirectX 10.1 compliant hardware.

    I would imagine this goes without saying, but before tackling this article I'd well and truly recommend beginning by reading our look at what DirectX 10 has to offer in our article entitled "ATI on the possibilities of DirectX 10" to get yourself up to speed on everything that this major inflection point in 3D graphics rendering entails, from geometry shaders through to (more importantly for this article) the WDDM driver model. So, if you feel that you know all you need to know about DirectX 10, let's move onwards to the future world of DirectX 10.1.

    Introduction

    Before we begin outright, we should remind ourselves briefly as to exactly why the API will be seeing point releases as of DirectX 10. The main reason for this move is the removal of cap (or capability) bits in the API. In the past, cap bits allowed for graphics vendors to basically pick and choose what features their hardware would support (albeit within some fairly strict guidelines to ensure compliancy to particular DirectX and Shader Model revisions). Although this left the likes of NVIDIA and ATI with plenty of room to develop and tout features that the other didn't have, it also had the side effect of creating development Hell for any game developers working on titles, leaving them to sort through a myriad of cap bits for different GPUs and configurations to ensure that they were supporting the right features for the right boards - More often than not, this simply meant that advanced features that only one graphics vendor supported were left out of the vast majority of titles altogether (Truform anyone?). The removal of this labyrinth was one of the main things developers were screaming out for when it came to discussing what was required of DirectX 10, and so it came to pass.

    Of course, this removal of cap bits had to be offset against the ever changing and progressing world of GPU development, so the graphics vendors still needed a way to push the technology forward and allow new technologies to find their way into games. Thus, DirectX 10 will be seeing point releases, one of the main facets of which will be to facilitate the inclusion of new funtionality for compliant graphics hardware to make use of. This makes life easier both for developers (who can target DirectX 10, 10.1 etc rather than individual features) and consumers - How do you explain to the man on the street that yes, a Radeon X800 and GeForce 6800 are both DirectX 9 parts, but both support different Shader Models in their respective architectures. It isn't much fun, trust me. As DirectX 10 and its point releases will also have very little in the way of features that are only optional in the API, buying a graphics board compliant with a particular DirectX 10 version will ensure that it does everything it needs to do to satisfy game titles that use that level of technology. No more Vertex Texture Fetch-esque confusions this time around then.

    The other question to answer (or not answer, such is the way these things work) before we start is - When will DirectX 10.1 be released? From what we've heard thus far, it appears that it may well become available not all that long after DirectX 10 itself. What isn't so likely however, is that we'll be seeing DirectX 10.1

    1. Re:Article Text by Traiklin · · Score: 1
      How do you explain to the man on the street that yes, a Radeon X800 and GeForce 6800 are both DirectX 9 parts, but both support different Shader Models in their respective architectures. It isn't much fun, trust me. As DirectX 10 and its point releases will also have very little in the way of features that are only optional in the API, buying a graphics board compliant with a particular DirectX 10 version will ensure that it does everything it needs to do to satisfy game titles that use that level of technology.
      So wait, now instead of upgrading tot he "latest and greatest" card every 2 years, we could be updating them every 6 months?

      Am I reading that right or not? I certinally hope I'm not cause if I am reading it right, then basically Microsoft has just made the holy grail for graphics card manufacturers but at the sametime creating a whole new level of hell for them (cause when you spend $500 on a graphics card you want that thing to last, but if it can be taken out in a simple update no one is going to spend that much).
    2. Re:Article Text by syousef · · Score: 1

      the first of these, imaginatively titled DirectX 10.1, will be the first of these ...I know you had a point there somewhere...

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    3. Re:Article Text by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Assumably one will be able to target multiple revisions simultaneously, i.e. you make a game that supports 10, 10.1 and 10.2 depending on the graphics card. This way developers have it easier as a card that supports a higher revision has to support all the lower ones.

  11. Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just like Visual Studio and Office it's yet another thing that props up Windows.

    If I were a DX developer I'd be more interested in playing "ubiquitous developer" than "Windows Sock Puppet".

    I may get modded down for this comment, but honestly, what is so special about windows that makes DX infeasible to implement for other platforms?

    Tom

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    1. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by MBCook · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's just like the rest of Win32. There is nothing magical. But as you implement it new versions will come out and you'll be in constant catch-up. On top of that, DirectX is used for games so you need to have it perform well. This combination makes it hard. CodeWeavers and Cedega are both trying.

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      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      DirectX for the most part depends on a decent API to the GPU and nothing more. The networking/sound/etc can all be handled by portable APIs [e.g. on top of BSD sockets, ALSA sound, etc].

      The real reason you don't see DX for Linux or BSD [or MacOS] is that they use it to prop up Windows. E.g. "Experience the coolness of DX games, as only brought to you by Windows." The problem is that DX is a viable technology [just like Visual Studio and Office] that in any other market would not be tied to the OS.

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    3. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe lack of driver support? Then again, even though its feature set moves like molasses and causes developers extension headaches, I still prefer the OpenGL API over DirectX9 even though I use C++ a lot more than C. DX10 is supposed to have an entirely different API so maybe I'll give it another chance.

      If someone did make an Open Source implementation, I wonder if Microsoft would pounce with patents. I feel like they only tolerate Cedega because it's far from perfect and in a way helps put out a message (be the message true or not) that Linux isn't ready for gaming.

    4. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Danathar · · Score: 1

      The license..it's the intellectual property of Microsoft and they can lock developers into writing games for windows by keeping the API's on windows. Microsoft as never licensed DirectX to ANYBODY and have no plans to ever do so.

      Same thing with the the rest of the Windows API. It could be implemented on Mac/LINUX (Wine tries to do it by reverse engineering), but it does not help them (Microsoft). It keeps people from running windows apps on platforms other than Microsoft Windows.

    5. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      That's not a technical reason. In only furthers to incriminate them on the basis they're a monopoly.

      Tom

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    6. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Merusdraconis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Just like Visual Studio and Office it's yet another thing that props up Windows."

      Clearly a workable strategy. End users don't care one jot about the OS, but what they can do with it, and Microsoft have been very good at pouncing on those opportunities and communicating what you can do with Windows.

      "what is so special about windows that makes DX infeasible to implement for other platforms?"

      90% of gamers use Windows?

      Microsoft owns both Windows and DirectX and wants gaming on PC to stay a going concern, and is the only company in a position to make a sizable difference. Microsoft has made gamers an active priority, while their competitors in the OS market haven't.

    7. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      I know the business reason why they do it. I want to see if there is a more technical [and legal] reasoning behind it.

      Proping up one failing business with another is a good sign [but not sufficient] of a monopoly. Microsoft wants to lock you into their platform so they invest in otherwise good tools and then lock them down.

      Visual Studio strives DESPITE windows. Many people use it for things other than writing windows applications. More people would use it if it worked under other OSes [e.g. port it to Qt]

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    8. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Tolleman · · Score: 1

      Well why don't you do it then, because obviously "Do it and get sent to a PoundMeInTheAss-prison" isn't a good enough reason for you to not do it.

    9. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      I don't get your reply. If I reverse engineered it, it would be legal [may violate patents but that's a civil matter not criminal].

      My point is people should shun not celebrate DX.

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    10. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by bradkittenbrink · · Score: 1
      The license..it's the intellectual property of Microsoft and they can lock developers into writing games for windows by keeping the API's on windows.

      Now, that's not fair. Windows DirectX games aren't locked to windows APIs, they're totally portable to the xbox and xbox360.
    11. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      The argument for/against Wine/Cedega/Crossover is that while they do encourage users to switch over to Linux by making apps available now, they also discourage developing a native Linux version for something that works flawlessly under Wine -- or it may be easier to make it work under Wine (or with WineLib) than to do a real port.

      As you point out, we have a hard time getting that kind of critical mass that would prompt people to actually do proper native ports, partly because Wine will never be perfect. Especially since DirectX's dominance, the situation has changed. It used to be that the latest games, if they ran at all, ran faster and better under Wine than they did under Windows, and even faster with a native port -- this was Quake 3.

      But nowadays, most games run best under Windows or their native console, mainly because of DirectX.

      Still, I don't think Microsoft could sue. Don't you think they would have already, or is it just a sign that we were never a threat? I think in the days before and just after the release of Windows 2000, Linux was the better OS not by leaps and bounds, but by light years -- and games ran better under Linux than they did under Windows -- so why didn't anyone get sued then? I think Transgaming was around in some form, even...

      And FYI, Cedega is an Open Source implementation of DirectX. We've also got Wine (and Cedega) which are Open Source implementations of the Windows APIs. Then there's Mono, an Open Source implementation of .NET, and mod_mono, which is an Open Source implementation of ASP.NET on an Apache server. And we can't forget OpenOffice, AbiWord, and others, which include open source implementations of the Word format.

      Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for the vast majority of people to go MS free. And yet, MS does nothing.

      I don't know what that means -- could be beaurocratic inefficiency, could be we aren't a threat yet, could be Hell froze over and MS decided to play nice. But I wouldn't worry about Cedega getting sued, now or ever.

      --
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    12. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the people you piss off have enough money, anything can be upgraded to a criminal offense.

    13. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Shados · · Score: 1
      Visual Studio strives DESPITE windows. Many people use it for things other than writing windows applications. More people would use it if it worked under other OSes [e.g. port it to Qt]


      Unlikely. As far as I can tell, all but the fanciest versions of visual studio (like team system) are sold and/or given at a loss, because the developers who use it drives windows sales to recoup the money. Visual Studio at a price that would allow it to be sold at a profit, probably wouldn't be worth snatching over competing IDEs. Thats just a guess though.
    14. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      That makes the presumption that people care about not using Windows. Since that obviously isn't the case, you're tilting at windmills.

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    15. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Danathar · · Score: 1

      If you can reverse engineer the API's so that it works all the more power to ya. The wine people are attempting it.

      Legally it could be done with almost 100% compatibility (of course you'd have to recompile your app for the target platform) IF microsoft licensed somebody to look at the real source code and port it to another platform.

      What makes you think the windows API's are not used in the xbox and/or xbox360?

    16. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Danathar · · Score: 1

      Sure it's technical.

      Technically it's easier to port the API if you are a license holder and have the right to look at the original source code and port it to a new platform.

      Technically it's harder if you have to reverse engineer it on your own WITHOUT access to the source code (like the wine/transgaming people are trying to do)

    17. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
      Many console manufacturers have "exclusive" games. Not for any technical reason, but business, only. They further add to this by selling their consoles at a loss.

      Does this make their practices monopolistic and / or predatory?

      What is inherently magical about Spotlight that it could not technically run on Windows? Why, then, is it something you can only get with Apple and OS X? Is this a monopolistic practice? (Remember of course that you can engage in monopolistic practices without being a monopoly.)

    18. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      My parents use this defense often and it's really annoying. I don't think Apple is of any higher moral standing than Microsoft or Intel [etc].

      Microsoft is just the punching bag here since this is a thread about DX.

      Tom

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    19. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      No, I appreciate that - but it was more a question of "just how black and white a scenario is it?" - i.e. is it inherently evil that a company produces a line of "accessories" for its product, like DX for Windows, or Spotlight for Apple? Whilst I agree that MS, and others, have been guilty of unduly / unfairly milking this, I also think it would be somewhat unconducive to the industry if such things were entirely spanked as being monopolistic.

    20. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      There is a difference when you add something but the core value isn't tied to it. OS X is a decent OS with or without any given random widget. How useful is Windows without DX or Office or Visual Studio? Not very. What this lets Microsoft do is grow their market and lock them into situations they shouldn't be locked into.

      Generally, in terms of software, I'd draw the line at software which is platform specific [for no technical reason] which uses proprietary standards [when published ones exist, or more open methodologies are possible] and is provably released to prop up the sales of another, technically unrelated product.

      For instance,

      Apple doing a custom commercial port of OpenOffice that uses the OpenOffice file formats, not monopoly.

      Apple hijacking OO and re-writing the file save/open formats to lock in customers to OS X, monopoly.

      Apple building their own custom collection of ISO C and C++ compiler tools, not monopoly.

      Apple building their own compiler, supposedly based on C++ with their own non-portable hacks and use it as the platform language of choice, monopoly.

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    21. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      People often make mention of OpenGL and ask why games companies don't use it - they often neglect to note that the reason has nothing (or very little) to do with MS (attempting to) lock them into DX. One of the biggest things stopping people using OGL is that it is 'graphics only'. There's none of the controller handlers. None of the sound handlers. Etc. It's an open standard, so define a sound language that interacts natively with the graphics and see how that goes, because there's a lot lower overhead currently in coding for DX - not because it's inherently 'easier' than OGL - but because it's a "fully featured environment" for these things.

    22. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      If your company will publish more than one game, develop a network layer and reuse it. If you're big enough just license one. If you're small base it on more portable primitives.

      A more sound solution for smaller companies

      1. Write game with a flexible framework [e.g. C++ class driven, can even emulate them in C]
      2. Write first game [edition/release] for Win32
      3. As you get money from game spend time on writing Linux [e.g. X11/ALSA] plugins

      This is nicely "self-pacing" as you don't use time on porting unless you're popular enough to support it anyways. Also as you grow you can later re-use existing code. So your next games come cheaper to code [leaving you more time for content, art and music].

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    23. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      The API is public. Go implement DirectX on another platform.

      Yes, I realize you're just a slash-shit that can't resist taking a stab at Microsoft.

    24. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      That's the dumbest form of retort ever. I do [LibTomCrypt] my bit to contribute to OSS. Just because I haven't ported all of MSFT software to other OSes doesn't mean I can't point out that they're continuing a trend that is harmful to the public.

      Tom

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      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    25. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by bradkittenbrink · · Score: 1
      What makes you think the windows API's are not used in the xbox and/or xbox360?
      Congratulations! You explained the joke to yourself.
    26. Re:Why is directX still tied to windows? by 4of12 · · Score: 1
      But as you implement it new versions will come out and you'll be in constant catch-up. On top of that, DirectX is used for games so you need to have it perform well.

      We focus on just how difficult it is for FOSS programmers and 3rd party commercial would-be competitors of Microsoft to try to match bleeding edge performance and retain backward compatibility at the same time.

      The interesting issue is that Microsoft itself is constantly fighting a very similar battle - trying to bring out bleeding edge performance and retain some measure of backwards compatibility.

      At some point, though, the sheer complexity of the API accretion becomes expensive to extend and to maintain. Unless a Must Have new application comes out to justify why customers should buy into the new bleeding edge new features, I can see where just plain good backward compatibility can become more important. It's good enough. The same principle of being available and of being Good Enough might allow competition to MS to catch up simply because no single entity can make the whole bundle progress at a reasonable pace for a reasonable cost as the complexity of the overall beast gains weight.

      Cleanly-divided modules are technically superior. It's not that MS is technically incapable of doing it, either. If we had the HTML engine, DirectX, etc. built the proper way on top of something like Windows XP embedded the world as a whole would be progressing more easily. It's just that monopoly preservation has genuine shareholder value - if I were an MS shareholder or mananger I, too, would not mind if complicated levers and pulleys prevented my competitors from rapidly developing new markets and would allow me a turbo-boost into those markets whenever I wished. And so it is.

      --
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  12. Why don't they... by nascarguy27 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why not call it DirectX 10, and release it with Vista? Heck, by the time Vista is released, it may be DirectX 11.

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    1. Re:Why don't they... by Shiny+One · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just cut the crap and call it DirectX Forever

  13. 2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    Considering the fact that DirectX10 is only available on Vista and that 50% of employers say they are not going to purchase (14% if which say they will wait 15 months before evaluating), it's a safe bet to say that we won't be seeing any games that use DirectX10 for at least 2 years.

    Anyone REQUIRING it before then will be severely limiting their consumer base; games failing to be picked up due to a small consumer base will also affect the adoption rate since other game manufacturers will be watching those games that first launch with it.

    In alot of ways, Vista is a major gamble for Microsoft and one that alot of people say is going to fail. Only time will tell. In alot of ways, I'm glad that OpenGL development has been put into high gear. This may cause game manufacturers to change tactics since OpenGL is supported on ALL OS's.

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    1. Re:2 years for adoption by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 1

      I don't think employers care about DirectX 10. Last I checked, most jobs don't encourage playing games on company computers, let alone the latest games.

      Besides, that time frame sounds about right for how long DirectX 9 games came along. Atleast, the ones that really utilized it. I'm pretty sure the pattern is the same for each iteration of DirectX: The API is released on X date but it isn't until X+1 year that we see games that really use it. Heck, DirectX 9 is still being pushed further and further with games.

    2. Re:2 years for adoption by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering [...] DirectX10 is only available on Vista and that 50% of employers say they are not going to purchase [soon], it's a safe bet to say that we won't be seeing any games [...] for at least 2 years.

      I think I found the flaw in your logic. Employers != Consumers.

      The fact is, games will probably drive Vista adoption more than any other factor save factory pre-installs. We proabaly won't see much requiring DX10 for a year or more, but that is because most big games take 1-3 years to develop so that's about the earliest that we'll see stuff.

      This may cause game manufacturers to change tactics since OpenGL is supported on ALL OS's.

      That fact has always been true, and it hasn't made much of a difference so far, even back when OpenGL and DirectX were much closer in abilities (without needing extensions and such).

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    3. Re:2 years for adoption by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Yes but how many employers back in '01 said they weren't going to purchase XP? And now, they are all borg.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    4. Re:2 years for adoption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The majority of 3D titles for the PC released for next year's Christmas season will probably have dual Direct3D 9 and 10 support. We'll probably see some of that for titles released this year. This isn't something I know from inside info, it's just duh, common sense. Game developers live on the bleeding edge, but they have to support somewhat older hardware as well, they're used to this sh*t.

    5. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yes but they are still a good measure of how the consumer base will respond. Also, governments and businesses are the biggest early adopters. And from the same poll 14% hadn't even heard of Vista.

      You can probably safely bet that with the exception of hardcore gamers, these statistiocs will probably transfer to the average consumer as well. Those purchasing Vista will also be in for a suprise due to the monitor DRM and will probably re-install XP before purchasing a new monitor... especially if gas prices continue to climb and the consumer gets squeezed for expendable income.

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    6. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Employers do not equalk consumers... this is true. However this is a good measure of the market. Plus considering that Vista will have monitor DRM, early adopters (aside from hardcore gamers) may not find having to buy a whole new monitor acceptable especially if gas prices continue to rise and put a crimp on the expendable income of the average consumer.

      It's not just the perceivable costs but the unperceived costs that will affect adoption.

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    7. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      XP had a LARGE DEGREE of backward compatibility... from what I have read about Vista, this won't be the case.

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    8. Re:2 years for adoption by iroll · · Score: 1

      Five. Years. Later. And the PC I have at work still runs Win2k. So what's your point? You can't expect from that comment that they would have stayed with Win2k indefinitely; as it was, they often became borg by rolling out new boxes, not by actively upgrading old ones. Look for the same to happen w/Vista--call it "adaptation by attrition." /Fox News, I hold a copyright on that phrase.

      --
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    9. Re:2 years for adoption by banz23 · · Score: 1

      Halo 2 will be DirectX10 only. This is a simple ploy to help get gamers to upgrade, although I imagine most people will just play it on the 360 instead.

    10. Re:2 years for adoption by Sark666 · · Score: 1

      Well, the fist dx10 only game was already announced, halo 2. How pathetic is it that an xbox 1 port is dx10 only.

      ahh, I posted on this before and reposted it, but this topic seems to keep coming up and I'll just link it this time if someone wants to read my thoughts on this

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192814&cid=158 28522

    11. Re:2 years for adoption by mblase · · Score: 1

      Anyone REQUIRING it before then will be severely limiting their consumer base; games failing to be picked up due to a small consumer base will also affect the adoption rate since other game manufacturers will be watching those games that first launch with it.

      Are you sure? I seem to recall that most game-heavy PC users went through a heavy upgrade cycle whenever id Software announced a new "Doom" or "Quake" game. If "Doom IV" were to require DirectX 10.1, you can bet that Microsoft would find a lot of upgrade sales on their sales sheet that quarter.

    12. Re:2 years for adoption by L0rdJedi · · Score: 1

      Alan Wake is coming exclusively to Windows Vista. Yeah, it's probably definitely a bad thing, since its release schedule will be almost entirely held to Microsoft's, but it's one exclusive game so far. I expect to see more and more once Vista comes out. Companies already don't want to code to DirectX and OpenGL, I don't think they'll be willing to code to DirectX 9 and 10.

    13. Re:2 years for adoption by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 1

      Monitor DRM? You mean HDMI? Yeah. That only applies if you use HDMI. I doubt DX10 requires HDMI on the video card. Of course, the average consumer will be buying from Dell or some such vendor and likely will get a monitor with their system. In such case, DRM won't matter to them; only to people that want to rip HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies.

    14. Re:2 years for adoption by nighthawk127127 · · Score: 2, Informative

      we won't be seeing any games that use DirectX10 for at least 2 years
      Hmm... like, for example, Crysis? Or UT2K7? Or Halo 2 (PC obviously)? Or Flight Simulator X? Come on out from under your rock, buddy... these are all games that use DX10 and they'll be out well within 2 years.

      --
      10100111001
    15. Re:2 years for adoption by beuges · · Score: 1
      Plus considering that Vista will have monitor DRM, early adopters (aside from hardcore gamers) may not find having to buy a whole new monitor acceptable


      Why why why does this rubbish keep on getting repeated over and over again? Just because Vista supports monitor DRM doesnt mean that you HAVE to have a DRM-capable monitor. All it means is that if you choose to watch DRM'd content that specifically requests a DRM'd monitor, you will need to have one, or the display will be fuzzy. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Vista at all. Do you think that by sticking to XP or MacOS or Linux you'd magically avoid the monitor DRM? Not a chance. The content dictates the levels of "security" required. Vista is going to support these levels of security. If you will never have the need to watch content that requires a DRM'd monitor, then you will still be able to use Vista quite happily with whatever old monitor you wish.

      The FUD around Vista and DRM on slashdot is disgusting. Just because Vista supports DRM does not mean that everyhing to do with Vista revolves around DRM. If anyone thinks that, then they're deliberately remaining ignorant about it. MS has nothing to gain by requiring people to buy DRM monitors. That would be insane. Nobody is going to upgrade to their new OS if that were the case. Content providers want this support and MS is providing the capabilities. Stay away from those content providers or that type of content, and you can live your life being blissfully unaffected by monitor DRM.
    16. Re:2 years for adoption by baadger · · Score: 1

      ...we won't be seeing any games that use DirectX10 for at least 2 years.

      And what exactly is stopping game developers from writing their games with a DirectX 9 base and optional DirectX 10 functionality? DX 10 is a superset of DX 9 after all isn't it? You just detect when DX 10 is available and enable swaths of code...well, maybe it's not as easy as I make it sound but feasible, yes?

    17. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1
      Why why why does this rubbish keep on getting repeated over and over again? Just because Vista supports monitor DRM doesnt mean that you HAVE to have a DRM-capable monitor. All it means is that if you choose to watch DRM'd content that specifically requests a DRM'd monitor, you will need to have one, or the display will be fuzzy.


      Actually Microsoft itself has stated that without a monitor that supports their monitor DRM, content will display at a bad resolution or NOT AT ALL.
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    18. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yes this is true. They purchased a new graphics cvard and some new RAM. Total of about $500 at the time.

      But this time, if they do that same upgrade, it will require a new monitor (for the monitor DRM) as well as the OS, new RAM and the same new graphics card. That's about $1000 (including the game). And assuming that they get the whole new computer with this, just to play the game, it will be costing them $2000 - $3000 to play a game.

      This time around the prices have increased. And keeping in mind the current oil crisis, consumer budgets are going to be strapped. Especially since the launch is going to be AFTER Christmas when consumer spending goes WAY down.

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      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    19. Re:2 years for adoption by beuges · · Score: 1

      Please provide a link or some sort of evidence for that? It is actively in Microsoft's best interests NOT to forcefully require DRM-capable monitors. Why would it be? Microsoft does not sell monitors. They sell software. People will not buy their software if they also had to go and buy DRM-capable monitors for no reason. Despite what people on this site may think, Microsoft is not really made up of a bunch of idiots. So, could you please provide some sort of official hardware requirements list from Microsoft that states that a DRM-capable monitor is required for ANY type of Vista use?

    20. Re:2 years for adoption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whereas with a non-DRM system, there's no or about it. It will display not at all.

    21. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Read your HDCP docs. Microsoft's implementation doesn't deviate. As such, content providers have the ability to dictate how their content will play on devices that don't support HDCP. They can either lower the quality or cause them not to show at all. It's all in the HDCP specs for the literate.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    22. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Forcing those who wish to upgrade to Microsoft Vista to purchase all new monitors. Bright move to hit consumers with this big cost right after the holiday season when budgets are stretched. They'll be pleasantly pleased to have to get their friends and family to have to all upgrade their systems in order to share family photos or home movies.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    23. Re:2 years for adoption by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      And Halo and Flight Simulator (game???) are being released BY MICROSOFT. Not independent game companies. Microsoft as usual has to support their product first. Get out from under the retard bus, buddy. Sales figures from XP were only 20% market saturation within the first year and that didn't require a new monitor to run and had backward compatibility.

      You force people to buy new hardware and get rid of backward compatibility and they will be staying away in droves.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    24. Re:2 years for adoption by Mac+Degger · · Score: 1

      Ah, but there's the rub: employees will have at home what they have at the office, to ensure compatibility, so they can work at home. His son/daughter is only gonna get a Vista pc if that doesn't interfere with daddy/mommies work at the office...which if the office works with XP, it will, so no Vista for the kiddies.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  14. No company should want DX 10+ by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would any company want to lose out on the win98,2000,XP crowd when they market their game? Only Microsoft has any interest in selling stuff that uses DX10+. To me DX10+ is dumb, stupid, and inane.

    1. Re:No company should want DX 10+ by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Hate to tell you but a lot of recent games don't support 98. It took several years for XP gain that spot though, so don't expect Vista adoption to be immedient either.

    2. Re:No company should want DX 10+ by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      You mean like the vast number of companies whose games no longer support Win98 or Win2K and require WinXP? Once adoption reaches a certain point devs will feel safe requiring the usage of Vista, like it's always been. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, each iteration of DX has given us more and more power that devs are just itching to tap.

    3. Re:No company should want DX 10+ by Z34107 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would any company want to lose out on the win98,2000,XP crowd when they market their game? Only Microsoft has any interest in selling stuff that uses DX10+. To me DX10+ is dumb, stupid, and inane.

      People said the same stuff about DirectX 9, DirectX 8, DirectX 7.... you get the idea.

      Corporations realize $$$ when they can market the newest, fastest, shiniest whatever. For PC games, this is especially true - how realistic a games graphics are drive sales, and often make a game more fun.

      More importantly, programmers will want to use DirectX 10. IMHO, the biggest improvement so far seems to be the elimination of "capability bits" - flags a programmer can query to see what features a GPU supports. The implications of "optional" features that video cards may or may not support means two "DirectX 9" cards can render things very, very differently and make life difficult for the programmer. Features not supported by the video hardware are automatically emulated in software by DirectX, but that is much slower and bugs the crap out of people who dropped $500 for speed. The elimination of capability bits in favor of "dot standards" lets developers code for a specific flavor of DirectX, knowing all cards made for that flavor will behave the same, resulting in better code.

      Virtualization of the GPU is also interesting. It applies the same time-slicing multitasking operating systems use to run multiple programs (semi)simultaneously to the graphics hardware. This means that if the GPU chokes on an instruction for whatever reason (i.e., a page fault, the needed texture is compressed, etc.) other threads and processes can continue drawing. Currently, in multitask-less DX9, a page fault chokes the CPU until the needed page can be loaded, whereas DX10 would allow other taskts the GPU was working on to continue.

      Better yet is "predicated rendering", which is French for "putting an 'if' in front of a drawing command." Predicated rendering allows the hardware to ignore a command to draw an object if it's not visible - i.e., a very sophisticated hardware clipping.

      DirectX 10 has amazing new features and performance enhancements, and (so far) looks like programming with the new API will be much easier and faster. That means cheaper development and happier coders. Doesn't sound so inane to me.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    4. Re:No company should want DX 10+ by DavidV · · Score: 1

      'Only Microsoft has any interest in selling stuff that uses DX10+.'

      Yeah I'm sure ATI and nVidia aren't remotely interested in forcing a GPU jupgrade to support the features in the latest games. MS, ATI & nVidia move and the gaming world follows.

      --
      !sig
  15. Holding Out by Riddler+Sensei · · Score: 1

    I think I'm gonna hold out for DirectX 10.11: For Workgroups. But really, I'm a bit tired of game websites across the net losing their loads over the prospect of DirectX 10. As far as features are concerned, I fail to see what is getting people so worked up about it over OpenGL.

  16. DirectX shuts out porting of games to LINUX/Mac by Danathar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It used to be that games used both OpenGL and DirectX (especially before Direct3d had the features to compete with OpenGL), but since game developers have made windoze their PC development platform, direct3d has become the defacto graphics library to use. One of the reasons there was no Half-Life 2 native LINUX/Mac port is because there was no OpenGL development and Valve had no inclination to do MAJOR programming work to make it work with OpenGL.

    Until somebody writes a game that does something on LINUX/MAC that can't be done on windows because of the underlying OS that is successful I doubt if we'll see any change.

    1. Re:DirectX shuts out porting of games to LINUX/Mac by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They simply don't care. The fact is Half-Life was one of the best selling games of all time. They promised a Mac port and showed it off in '98 or '99 but it was never released. I don't think that was because of DirectX.

      Actually one of the things that I've heard about the Mac is Havok is a problem. It runs, and Havok as written a port, but no one is willing to pay for it (they have to pay for the port and the license, despite the fact it is already complete). I think I got this from MacGamer, but I'm not sure.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:DirectX shuts out porting of games to LINUX/Mac by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      Although I sympathise (particularly as I'm a Mac user), the more important point is that it locks devs out of the Playstation and Nintendo markets.

      In these days of massive development costs, any game dev company not looking with one eye to porting is making poor financial decisions.

      DX10 sounds like it's going to be great. I want OpenGL to match and exceed it though, to spur devs to use it for the portability it provides.

  17. Re:First post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I wonder when Linux will drop support for the obsolete, proprietary OpenGL-standard and use a modern, open toolkit like DirectX.

  18. Re:If I hear "DirectX" this or "DirectX" that agai by Jordanis · · Score: 1

    DirectX! Apply directly to monopoly!

    or..

    DirectX! Apply directly to graphics card!

  19. Tired of these articles. by aquaepulse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But not for the obvious reasons. I'm tired of these articles because then the woodwork of MS bashers comes out and says the same tired comments over and over again. "MS is just doing this so everyone has to buy Vista!" "There is no reason why DX10 can't be backported to XP!" It's like these people never saw these articles posted before, and they really feel like they are making some new contribution. They are not.

    1. Re:Tired of these articles. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, many posters may have missed the previous articles. What we need to solve this problem is more re-posted articles. Any article that is worth posting should be worth re-posting at least three times.

    2. Re:Tired of these articles. by Kennego · · Score: 1

      Oh, if I had mod points, I'd so mod you "Insightful."

      But I don't...

  20. Re:If I hear "DirectX" this or "DirectX" that agai by jigjigga · · Score: 0

    DirectX! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD! DirectX! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD! As you can see, there are far worse examples of annoying repetition ;)

  21. OpenGL vs. DirectX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After years of pushing DirectX, Nvidia is now betting on OpenGL and has promised first class OpenGL support for their upcoming cards. What does this mean? At the very least it means that there must be good reason for choosing OpenGL over DirectX. Also, keep in mind that OpenGL is an actual graphics standard whereas DirectX is not. Both will co-exist for the next couple of years but it is likely that in the long run OpenGL leaves DirectX in the dust.

    1. Re:OpenGL vs. DirectX by Tolleman · · Score: 5, Informative

      nVidia has always had excellent support for OpenGL. And concidering that alot of the guys at nVidia is former SGI employees, SGI being the ones that made OpenGL, they've always been OpenGL fans. So basicly, is anything you wrote correct?

    2. Re:OpenGL vs. DirectX by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Or, it means that they're giving a bit more priority to their workstation market, and acknowledging that some people use graphics cards for things other than games.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  22. The best thing about DirectX 10.x... by Teckla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is that the vendor lock-in is FREE!

    1. Re:The best thing about DirectX 10.x... by Jugalator · · Score: 1
      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  23. It's whom! by WilliamSChips · · Score: 4, Funny

    Jacob Carter: But by who?
    Jack O'Neill: It's whom!
    Samantha Carter: Actually, it's what.

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  24. Even more vaporware ! by alexhs · · Score: 1

    Impressive ! DirectX 10.0 isn't even released, yet their PR department is already selling us 10.1 ! Wow ! What about the features for the OS they're planning to release in 2020 ?

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    1. Re:Even more vaporware ! by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm especially looking forward to DirectX11, which will reportedly be based on the XFree86 4.4 implementation of X11 (under a new license, of course).

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    2. Re:Even more vaporware ! by dmitrygr · · Score: 2, Funny

      What about the features for the OS they're planning to release in 2020 ?

      Sure. Here: microsoft.com/windowsvista/features

      --
      -------
      1. Enjoy your job
      2. Make lots of money
      3. Work within the law

      Choose any two.
  25. Who wants to lose their old dos games by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    I think Win98 is the way to go for Dos game playing. Dos emulators don't seem advanced enough for me, I tried one and the framerate was exceedingly slow, like 1 frame per 5 seconds.

    1. Re:Who wants to lose their old dos games by Talchas · · Score: 1

      Which one was that? I use dosbox and it works with everything I've tried it on, mostly master of orion 1 and master of magic.

      --
      As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
    2. Re:Who wants to lose their old dos games by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      You are clearly doing something wrong, or your emulator is broken, or you're trying to run a DOS emulator on a 386-20.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    3. Re:Who wants to lose their old dos games by DeafByBeheading · · Score: 1

      DOSBox (if that's what you were using) has initial settings that favor way-old games. If you're playing something from the mid-90s on, you'll need to turn up the emulated clock speed before gaining acceptable performance.

      --
      Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
    4. Re:Who wants to lose their old dos games by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Why not use a virtual computer? It's not like DOS games need a lot of cpu power, so running them in a VC would still be very fast.

    5. Re:Who wants to lose their old dos games by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Sht, I never even thought of that. Thanks.

  26. Not a fanboi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not an MS fanboy, but to those people who complain that its not good to make Vista-only games because its such a small market, are the same people who complain that there aren't enough games for Linux/Mac. I don't have statistics yet but its pretty much guaranteed that no matter how small, Vista will still have a bigger market share than Linux and Mac combined. I'm not trolling. This is reality.

    1. Re:Not a fanboi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are trolling. Those are two different groups of people saying those things, not one group of hypocrites as you assert. The people who complain that there aren't enough games for Linux/Mac are Linux/Mac users. The people who complain that its not good to make Vista-only games because its such a small market are XP users who don't want to be stuck on the upgrade treadmill.

  27. Those wacky Elite Bastards. by stimpleton · · Score: 1

    Usually a /. ed webserver just means I'll revist the article later. A non event.(Doesnt stop me posting though).

    But this one tickled my fancy.

    "Elite" implies they are impervious to /.

    The "Bastards" part implies they will kick my ass if I ever deemed challenge them(Which would be a waste of time as I am not worthy).

    Its odd. As I trudge nostril deep through the sewerage that is my work place, this "page cannot be displayed" bought me a smile. And my day feels better for it. Thanks Elite good guys.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
  28. Hopefully by Venim · · Score: 1

    Hopefully DirectX 10 is better than this webserver =o

  29. Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fully formatted mirror.

  30. revenue protection by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

    I see this as forced revenue protection rather than progress. Why are they bothering to release info about 10.1 when 10 isn't even out yet... let alone being used to full potential. This is typical MS. "We're failing now... but look what we'll do next." It's old.

  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. Improvement by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    The concept of "improvement' is somewhat subjective. Many would disagree that the move to CD's was an improvement over LPs. ( for example ).

    Yes, i need to do better with my proof reading. I type way too fast, and tend not to care about the outcome.

    Why would i want to switch to another platform when what i have fufills my needs already? I can complain about 'modern technology' all i want, and still not be part of it.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Improvement by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Many would disagree that the move to CD's was an improvement over LPs

      Yeah, but those are the same people who pay 100 dollars a foot for fancy audio cables. Stupid people making stupid decisions may not be the greatest example you could use.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  33. Thanks, glad to provide a smile. by digitalwanderer · · Score: 1

    The name actually has a lot longer story behind it, and once we had it and started getting popular we were just stuck with it. The idea was to make it offensive enough to keep people away...y'know, to keep the riff-raff out. ;)

    The name doesn't mean what you think, but I got a smile reading your interpretation of it. :)

    --
    - "When I say dance, you'd best DANCE motherf*cker!" -Violent Femmes
    1. Re:Thanks, glad to provide a smile. by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      I just wish you'd chosen a name less likely to draw the attention of any internet monitors here at work.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  34. Good buisness strategy by Spikeles · · Score: 0

    This is good buisness strategy, it allows Developers and Users to see that Microsoft has a plan for the future and is fixing it in stone now so that games/programs can be planned well in advance. It can take years to write a good game(scene) engine, so by finalizing the requirements for DX 10.1, they can start planning and perhaps even writing their engines now to take advantage of the features to be present.

    When DX9 first came out alot of the games were still coming out 1 or 2 versions behind the current release of DX because of the costs to change to the new version half-way through were too prohibitive

    Same goes for vid card manufacturers, whether DX10.1 will be released 2 or 10 years in the future is irrelevant, by planning it now, the major vid card makers can start planning their buisness models for the future cards too. ( Wow.. that's a scary thought, one company to RULE them all and in the darkness bind them??? ).

    It also gives the Khronos Group ( the guys that now handle OpenGL ) a chance to see what Microsoft has in store and to counter them by making sure the next releases of the OpenGL spec match or exceed the functionality of DX10.1

    --
    I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
  35. Beta? by bky1701 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Doesn't this officially make 10.0 a beta? It's outdated before realise; sounds beta to me...

    1. Re:Beta? by alotofbobs · · Score: 1

      Yep. By promising a fix before it's even released, they are covering the negative release reviews and hoping they will catch up by the promised 10.1.

  36. Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bring back OpenGL? OpenGL is alive and well. It would be great if some of the Windows developers started using it though, since they are in the majority.

    If it were in a developer's best interest to use OpenGL they would. OpenGL has a history of having mediocre drivers if you are *not* doing things as Quake does them. In other words OpenGL was of such little interest to ATI and NVIDIA that about all the optimization attention it got was whetever Quake used. Now this was a few years ago and things are better now but developers remembers this and are a little gun shy due to "spotty" support and optimizations. They all know Direct3D will be at the forefront of ATI and NVIDIA's efforts. Now consider the arguments made by other posters where the new features and tools show up first, in Direct3D.

    Again, what's in it for developers? Linux gamers? No they dual boot or emulate, they are already Win32/Direct3D customers. There is no new money to be made, a port would merely move a sale from Win32 to Linux, more work, no revenue. The Linux market is really only those who refuse to emulate or dual boot. Mac OS X gamers? Well at least they have a history of spending money going for them, at least when emulation and dual boot were not feasable since an emulator had to emulate the CPU not just a gaming API. However with the switch to Intel dual booting is now an option, and to make things more confusing there is Cider for emulation. Write for Win32/Direct3D and link in Cider to translate the Win32 calls to Mac OS X. I like OpenGL, I come from a scientific visualization background, but come on, there is not much of a business case from a developer's perspective "today". It had slightly better case "yesterday"

    Please, feel free to join the rest of the world.

    Uh, by "rest of the world" you mean the 5% running Mac OS X and Linux? Hey, if you are discussing soccer then phrases like "rest of the world" are meaningful, but in the context of computer gamers it is a joke.

    1. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Wizarth · · Score: 1

      I think the Rest Of The World is referring to computing that isn't grey boxes on desktops.

    2. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 1, Insightful
      There is no new money to be made, a port would merely move a sale from Win32 to Linux, more work, no revenue. The Linux market is really only those who refuse to emulate or dual boot.
      Well if they had a clue maybe they'd realize that gamers really couldn't care less what operating system they're using as long as it runs the games. If game companies started basing their products on a stable Linux core instead of that flaky Windoze shit we'd start to see gamers switching overnight. Do you really think they get done playing their newest game only to fire up Microsoft Office or some other proprietary Windows applications? Gamers use their $3000 computer like a $3000 video game console, nothing more, nothing less. The underlying OS is irrelevent to them, it's the performance that matters. I'd love to see a new standard for video games that used bootable Linux DVDs to play games just like a console rather than having to load up the Windoze bloat before launching the game.
    3. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by EvilIdler · · Score: 1

      OpenGL gives you easy porting to Mac, Linux and all the Japanese consoles.
      Not a small market, the consoles alone, with two more systems coming Real Soon Now.

    4. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not all PC Gamers (like myself) have ultra-cutting-edge systems. Some of us know how quickly technology progresses, and know that a $3000 rig will be worth $300 in two years. I'm currently typing this on my "gaming laptop", and while I don't play the real CPU/GPU eating monsters like Civilisation 4, this thing handles Half-Life 2 and it's expansions like a charm. As you've noticed, I use said machine to go online. I also use it for work - Maxis, Microsoft Office, and Mozilla Firefox sitting side by side.

      Also, since when is the entirety of Linux considered stable? Half the time the drivers are up in the air, and there's enough competition and conflict between various builds and organisations as to achieve bugger all on a standards level. If game companies started porting to a stable Linux core, they'd be porting to Wii - THAT has a Linux OS with Opera installed.

    5. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Well if they had a clue maybe they'd realize that gamers really couldn't care less what operating system they're using as long as it runs the games. If game companies started basing their products on a stable Linux core instead of that flaky Windoze shit we'd start to see gamers switching overnight.

      And why should game developers care? As far as they are concerned, it would be better if all Linux/Mac users would switch to windows, this would ensure that they have the maximum possible number of potential customers.

      Do you really think they get done playing their newest game only to fire up Microsoft Office or some other proprietary Windows applications? Gamers use their $3000 computer like a $3000 video game console, nothing more, nothing less.

      ...

      I'd love to see a new standard for video games that used bootable Linux DVDs to play games just like a console rather than having to load up the Windoze bloat before launching the game.

      Now that is an interesting thought, and it could have pretty good performance. But I think I'd pass, it would mean that I have to turn off all my other programs like xfire and utorrent to play games, and that's not really acceptable to me. Also, rebooting the computer to play a game would lengthen the load times a lot which would also be very annoying.

    6. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by painQuin · · Score: 1
      If game companies started porting to a stable Linux core, they'd be porting to Wii

      Notice - not actually a bad idea.
      --
      A guilty conscience means at least you've got one.
    7. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      I think the Rest Of The World is referring to computing that isn't grey boxes on desktops.

      As I said: "you mean the 5% running Mac OS X and Linux?" Sorry, did I miss *BSD, my apologies. I should have known better since actually run BSD. Other *NIX? Noise, not worth discussing in the context of gaming.

    8. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      "There is no new money to be made, a port would merely move a sale from Win32 to Linux, more work, no revenue. The Linux market is really only those who refuse to emulate or dual boot."

      Well if they had a clue maybe they'd realize that gamers really couldn't care less what operating system they're using as long as it runs the games. If game companies started basing their products on a stable Linux core instead of that flaky Windoze shit we'd start to see gamers switching overnight.


      You are ignoring the point that there is no new money. As gamers do not care what OS they use developers don't care what OS gamers use. The gamers are on Win32, even Linux gamers, so that gives developers the guidance they need. Developers are not OS advocates, they follow the gamers. Why is it their responsibility to move the masses from Win32 to Linux?

    9. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      OpenGL gives you easy porting to Mac, Linux and all the Japanese consoles. Not a small market, the consoles alone, with two more systems coming Real Soon Now.

      I covered ports to Mac and Linux in the original post. Reread for the details. In short Linux gamers are alreay Win32 customers, dual booting or emulating, and for Mac gamers dual boot and emulating are now viable alternatives to native ports. I'm not recommending the later, just pointing out the problem.

      You are severely mistaken regarding Japanese consoles. The next gen consoles require highly specialized coding. Numerous "CPUs" performing specialized functions, this is very different from Windows and Mac games. A port would look pretty crappy, a lot of re-writing would be necessary.

    10. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Here's the other side of the business case you present. Boss, we should use DirectX because it's completely owned and dictated by Microsoft. You know, the Microsoft that's also a decent sized game publisher in our industry and has been tried and convicted of anti-competitive behaviour. Yes, one of our more aggressive and dangerous competitors.

      Now, we should really use DirectX 10. It's got the latest and greatest, which is really our reason for using DirectX in the first place. Unfortunately, MS has decided that it will only be released for Windows Vista. We'll be locking out Mac and Linux users, but that's okay, because there aren't very many of them. Well, yes, our game will also be unavailable to Windows XP users... but Microsoft says they should upgrade anyway! Um, yeah, they can't actually upgrade yet because Vista hasn't been released... but it will be soon!

      Then, a couple of years down the road:

      Microsoft: You can't figure out how we made Big Shiny Trucks 2008 have such shiny trucks? Whoopsie, I think we might have forgotten to document a couple of calls in DirectX 11. Don't worry, we'll fix it in Direct X 11.1. After Big Shiny Trucks mops the floor with your game, Big Matte Trucks, of course.

      When I said join the rest of the world, yes, I did mean the few percent running OS X, Linux, something else or Open GL on Windows, for whatever, not just games. That was an invitation, not an insult. OpenGL isn't dead, as the OP asserted, it's just been pushed into a much smaller corner by MS. The more people who use it, the better.

    11. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Lorkki · · Score: 1
      Also, since when is the entirety of Linux considered stable? Half the time the drivers are up in the air, and there's enough competition and conflict between various builds and organisations as to achieve bugger all on a standards level.

      Are you perhaps developing for Win32, MFC, .NET 1.0 or perhaps 2.0 today? What version are your MSVC runtimes, how about DirectX? Do any of those choices guarantee that the end-user's drivers aren't absolute crap (which sadly isn't all that uncommon) or that his computer isn't, say, loaded to the brim with malware before he runs your game?

      There's several Linux distributions with recent stable releases out there, with libraries that have stable APIs and sensible version numbering. Drivers, on the other hand, involve problems that even driver developers can hardly solve.

      If game companies started porting to a stable Linux core, they'd be porting to Wii - THAT has a Linux OS with Opera installed.

      So did you actually mean to say that the PC platform is unstable because the hardware setup isn't predictable?

    12. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      Here's the other side of the business case you present.

      Not really, it's a straw man.

      Also, since you bring up DirectX 10, I'll add that no one is making a case for DX10-only games. DX9.0c will do quite nicely until Vista has been out for years and could reasonably used as a min spec OS.

    13. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 1

      I accept your first two points.
      In the latter case, my point was simply there is an easier option with both stable software AND hardware, making it both a far easier and reliable developing experience, as well as a more reliable setup for the end-user. You're right that the PC platform is unstable because the hardware setup isn't predictable - but everyone knows that and takes that for granted nowadays. The real issue here is simply that if games companies switched to a standard Linux core for all their new games, they may as well make it a gaming OS - at which point you're better off making the hardware standard too.

    14. Re:Not much of a business case for OpenGL ... by Lorkki · · Score: 1

      That depends on whether you really want to end up with a dedicated game console. Lots of people play games on their desktop computer and yet don't have one primarily for that purpose.

      If you'd want to tip the balance in PC gaming, you'd have to gain enough momentum by attracting the current (Windows) gamers and it's not at all certain a Linux-based console will help the gaming situation that much on desktop Linux. Xbox's influence on Windows gaming has certainly been somewhat questionable, since there's a lot of games that have essentially been designed for the console and then ported to run on a PC.

      Seriously, the Linux software field isn't what it's cracked up to be by people who last checked the situation a decade ago. It's not exactly rocket science to put together a binary package of a game that will run on a wide range of distributions. Sure, since you're only distributing a binary, the underlying platform will gradually change in ways that'll render it inoperable. You can witness that in the older Windows games that no longer work as-is on XP.

  37. OpenGL doesn't help. by Corngood · · Score: 1

    At least DirectX gives you a start on Microsoft consoles, OpenGL gives you close to nothing on consoles.

    1. Re:OpenGL doesn't help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh?
      I know the GameCube uses OpenGL (not sure about the Playstation 2).
      The Playstation 3 and the Nintendo Wii will use OpenGL as well.

    2. Re:OpenGL doesn't help. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > know the GameCube uses OpenGL (not sure about the Playstation 2).

      While there is a port of PS2GL, no one in their right mind would ever use it for an actual shipping title, due to some operations will _never_ be supported in hardware. i.e. Stencils. The only way to get performance out of the PS2 is to write to the bare metal, because you know your render data better then anyone.

    3. Re:OpenGL doesn't help. by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Plus it gives you Mac and Linux. Not supporting OpenGL game development is pretty stupid unless the desire is to simply exclude Linux, Mac, and common gaming platforms.

  38. Not much of a business case for PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Well if they had a clue maybe they'd realize that gamers really couldn't care less what operating system they're using as long as it runs the games."

    They do. It's called...a console. You can fanboy yourself all over this issue, but a console dispenses with a lot of headaches, be they Linux, Mac, or Windows. The only thing they can't do is get rid of the fanboys that can't be bothered to create their own games, and demand that others invest their time and money to please them (then hold some faux threat when they don't get their way).

  39. Not so simple by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The difference is that it will be very easy to make games that run on both Vista and XP/2000/etc compared to making a Linux or Mac port. While I'm sure there will be a large market for Vista, if a company can use OpenGL (or even DirectX 9) just as easily and sell the game for other versions of Windows as well, they would be stupid not to. There'd have to be a some feature in DirectX 10 or Vista that is essential to the game, which I find unlikely.

  40. More importantly.. by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why didn't they follow Apple's lead and call it DirectXX?

    Obviously the 10th point revision would be DirectXXX.

  41. So much hatred, so little love by eebra82 · · Score: 1

    I know Microsoft does not deserve all the roses in the world for its software, but some users in here seem to think beyond all reasoning. How exactly is the announcement of features bundled in DirectX 10.1 a bad thing? It's great that we're seeing some development even beyond DXX simply because the next release is supposedly groundbreaking according to people outside of Microsoft. Complaining about a release that comes shortly after is no good because that only prompts developers to adapt its features sooner rather than later. It will still be backwards-compatible with cards that support 10.0 only, just like with DX9c,b,a, etc.

    I am also stunned to see that so many of you are upset with DXX being a Vista only choice. I don't consider this to be a big deal, really. Microsoft is not forcing you into buying Vista and developers are not forced into developing under DXX. I'm quite sure there will be plenty of top releases for WinXP before we all upgrade to Vista. While some of you guys are at it, you might want to complain about the fact that your current cards do not support DX10 specific features. Isn't that just awful? Now they are forcing us into upgrades?

    Microsoft is evolving its software just like hardware developers are evolving hardware. It is generally very difficult for a person to accept that $4,000 worth of today's hardware is obsolete in top gaming within a year, but why should software developers not respect that software too needs to evolve?

    To sum things up, Microsoft isn't doing anything wrong here. They realize that DXX isn't feasible for the aged architecture of WinXP and feel like moving on, and as long as there's a big bunch of WinXP users, no one has to worry about not using Vista. Once the majority has migrated to Vista, gamers will still have to buy new hardware to run the newest games and might as well cash out a few extra bucks to get Vista, right?

    1. Re:So much hatred, so little love by rts008 · · Score: 1

      "...before we all upgrade to Vista."

      You presume way too much with this one.
      I have in fact already upgraded from XP...to Fedora Core 5, thank you very much.
      The WGA debacle was the last straw for me, so safe to say there will be no Vista on my horizon.

      Since I build all of my family's PC's, I don't even have to format the HDD to get rid installed crap like Vista before installing an OS.( no Dell's here, dude!)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  42. Direct X 10.1 for Windows Vista? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently John Titor is submitting to slashdot now.

  43. Insightful? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    More like wishful innacurate zealot rambling. nVidia isn't betting on OpenGL, nVidia has ALWAYS supported OpenGL to the same level as they have DriectX, which is to say excellently. Ever since their fumbling first attempt with a proprietary API they decalred their cards native APIs were DirectX and OpenGL. They supported both as native, and no others. You'll find that with games that support both, their speed is equal. To this day, I've never seen them slack on their GL support.

    And yes, DirectX IS a standard. It's not an open standard, but it's a standard. Look up "standard" in the dictionary. A standard is just something that's regularly and widely used. There doesn't even have to be an offical document on it or anything, so long as a bunch of people do it a certian way, it's a standard.

    DirectX is the predominant standard in PC gaming graphics, sound, input, and so on. You look at game titles, better than 90% of them require DirectX. Yes it's MS exclusive, but it's still the standard for gaming.

    Unless OpenGL really gets it's shit together and starts keeping up to date with graphics hardwre developments, then no, I don't think there's any chance of DirectX going anywhere. GL support lags behind hardware which means to implement a GL game using the latest, greatest features you've got to implement them multiple times to deal with the different extensions form different vendors.

    1. Re:Insightful? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      OpenGL can afford to lag behind D3D - it doesn't have to go thru an extra layer or two of code to get it's damned job done, which is why most major studio-production CG movies (and some games, Doom 3 as an example) use OpenGL as it's renderer. It's more efficient, and when OpenAL really comes forward, DirectX is going to have a very serious fucking run for it's money.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Insightful? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      Doom 3 is actually not a very good example. For one, it's graphics are, well, less than stellar. The real-time lighting it does is neat, but has some serious flaws. All shadows are hard, you can have a room brightly lit with corners dead black since there's no global illumination and so on. It's texturing system is also rather inferior to many other games, including ones like UT2004 that preceded it. Objects start to look rather fake at close ranges.

      Doom 3 doesn't use OpenGL because it's more efficient, it uses OpenGL because Carmack likes it and because its' good for cross platform ports. There's no magic efficiency one gains from GL. You can see that in games that do both like the Unreal Engine games. UT2004 supports both GL and DX, and GL runs no faster. GL support is only in there because it is also a cross platform engine. In fact, since it was written prior to GL2, the DX9 renderer works better than the GL one for some cases.

      The problem with GL lagging behind is that it makes programming for it much more difficult, if you intend to support new game hardware. For pro 3D work, this is not a big issue, you aren't using the latest greatest features, your card is doing wireframes and flat shading with good AA. However games are all about eye candy, and the graphics companies keep adding new ways to do that.

      DirectX continues to update quite frequently to support these. That means that card makers just write their drivers to interface with that spec, and software makers have a consistent interface regardless of the hardware. Well since GL doesn't the card makers are left to add extensions. Load up a GL game some time, especially one that doesn't do GL2 and look at the massive list of GL_NV or GL_ATI extensions that come up. Those are things that GL doesn't do, and there's no standard extension for, so they've made their own. Great, but that means that you've got to write your code for each one.

      It's not horrible as nVidia and ATi are the only companies you really need to care about, maybe Intel to an extent if your game can do low enough graphics to run on their stuff, but still, it's more effort than the DirectX way where the API has support for all the latest features.

    3. Re:Insightful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "an extra layer or two of code" eh? Well thanks Khyber for your fucking technical insight there. So how much slower is it actually, given that you're calling it as little as possible? You have batched your shit up, haven't you?
      And CG movies using OpenGL? Hello, earth to fuckwit? Ever heard of RenderMan?

    4. Re:Insightful? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Earth to anonymous fucktard - ever hear of BLENDER3D?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:Insightful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I have... So what? You said 'most', 'major', and 'renderer'... Right now I'm just laughing at you.
      And you've still failed to put any numbers to what is obviously your pet OpenGL fanboi FUD mongering.
      All this trolling, here and in other threads, about Direct3D being slow because it goes through multiple layers...
      How are you going to support your claim numbnuts? Or are you just gonna pull some more FUD out of your ass?

  44. If only I had mod-points... by atrocious+cowpat · · Score: 2, Funny

    If only I had mod-points -- guess whem I would give them to...

    --
    sig? Oh, that sig...
  45. typical microsoft by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · · Score: 1

    Take a perceived lead and pile the promises on higher and deeper, to kill whatever competition might possibly provide an alternative to Microsoft's fake technology.

    Yield on the promises is always less than ten percent, and the part that I would need always gets swept under some rug and left behind.

    Microsoft is the classic pusher, and Microsoft technology is intellectual crack.

  46. Re:Amazing by hunterkll · · Score: 1

    Who the hell troll bombed the first few pages of this damn thing? What don't you get about funny?!

  47. DirectX is not just graphics by atomicstrawberry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm seeing a lot of comments here lamenting the fact that the majority of PC games are developed using DirectX instead of OpenGL. You have to remember that DirectX Graphics (formerly Direct3D) is just one part of the overall package. DirectX also provides simple, useful interfaces for sound, input and networking. While I'm reasonably sure that the networking support doesn't get a lot of use, the sound and input APIs do. Heck, even the much-touted OpenGL example World of Warcraft actually makes heavy use of DirectX under Windows. Just not for graphics.

    If there was a good overall package that leveraged OpenGL for graphics, then you'd see OpenGL being used more often. At the moment there's really only SDL, and to be frank, while SDL is great for some things, it's just not on the same footing as DirectX having come late to the party and not had the level of funding and development.

    1. Re:DirectX is not just graphics by spitzak · · Score: 1

      You answered your own question right here:

      Heck, even the much-touted OpenGL example World of Warcraft actually makes heavy use of DirectX under Windows. Just not for graphics.

      Obviously seperating sound and joystick input from the graphics output is no big deal.

      Even a program that does not use any api called "DirectX" is probably using the FAT file system or NTFS when it's files are written to disk. If Microsoft had named this DirectX-file then that program would be using DirectX! Amazing!

  48. Re:More copying from Apple! by Psykechan · · Score: 1

    DirectX 10.1 will be a free upgrade from DirectX10.0 but starting with DirectX 10.2 (codenamed "Jaguar") you will have to pay $129 for the upgrade.

    Later releases of DirectX will include GUI window tiling effects (set to debut in DirectX10.3 "Panther") and a "widget" layer complete with water ripple effects (curently scheduled to appear in DirectX 10.4 "Tiger").

  49. And if the Anonymous Coward forgot... by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

    Running games and graphics apps in OpenGL was better and faster than D3D - why? Simple! D3D had to go thru the OS first. OpenGL was direct to hardware. That was one less step to do (from what I'm understanding reading the OpenGL website,) which usually resulted in better performance, and the general reason was that games running D3D needed more CPU/GPU power and RAM to run as smoothly (Anyone recall Unreal Tournament 2003's requirements? Remember the hidden OpenGL renderer which gave you an extra 10 or so FPS, just like the OpenGL renderer in the original Unreal Tournament?) Having less layers of code to go through will almost always, with the exception of poor programming, outdo going through a separate API. With the lovely novelty of universal drivers, games can easily be written to directly address the hardware. In steps OpenGL, and out steps D3D. Hello Linux, OSX, and Windows gaming, all in a wonderful harmony. As long as everyone plays by OpenGLs standard, all should be well in theory. This is only a thought, and a theory.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  50. Adopt it OR ELSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS was really very smart here.

    D3D10 only available on Vista.

    "Hmm," Developers say, "that is not a good thing. I'll stick with D3D9."

    "AHA!" MS says smugly "we thought of that already."

    MS has purposefully broken prior versions of D3D in vista by forcing them to run in software emulation.

    So if you are a developer, you have to make a choice: make your game for the old MS operating system or for the latest one.

    Or think outside of the box, abandon this stupid API, and use FREAKING OPENGL!!!

  51. Don't forget what consumers buy, man... by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Consumers != tech-savvy people. They'll probably buy a computer with onboard graphics that will not play their muchly-coveted game, simply because they have no honest clue what "Minimum System Requirements" means. They'll bitch, moan, and move on because "It doesn't work." In comes OpenGL (Which any half-competent 3-d accelerator can handle) and suddenly "It works!" D3D will be just like Microsoft within a few years since Gates left the company - nothing but shambles.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Don't forget what consumers buy, man... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If their graphics accelerator can't handle it, the use of OpenGL isn't suddenly going to make it able to. You seem to imply that OpenGL isn't as capable, or is a much lower end API than Direct3D (and therefore that games that use it will be less demanding graphically), which it most certainly isn't true. Try playing Quake 4 or Prey on a mass produced crapbox with integrated video.

  52. And you know this to be true how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The driver has bugger all to do with the API. The sleep call is a sysem call API. Exists on almost all computers out there.

    1. Re:And you know this to be true how? by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      DX10 supports multitasking of the GPU. How do you propose to do that without changing the drivers?

    2. Re:And you know this to be true how? by Assmasher · · Score: 1

      I don't understand what you are referring to. Who was talking about the sleep[sic] call?
      The driver, in the case of DX9 versus DX10 has quite a bit to do with the driver actually. You should understand that pre-DX10, DirectX operating under the assumption that when DirectX Graphics (formerly Direct3D) was being used, it was most likely being used as a game or for a very demanding application; ergo, the idea of resource sharing, management of pooling, video memory usage, et cetera, were not nearly as important as they are going to be in Vista where each desktop window may be run by a multi-head card, multiple cards, or multiple multi-head cards. Saying this is skimming over a huge area of architectural concerns, but fundamentally DX10 and DX9 have different architectural goals in order to achieve their API goals. The re-factoring of DX10 was possible because the DirectX team was allowed to break away from the WDDM model.

      --
      Loading...
    3. Re:And you know this to be true how? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Emulate it in software, obviously. Yes, it would be slow, but having poorly-performing support for DX10 on XP would arguably drive adoption of Vista more than keeping it Vista-only, because the game makers wouldn't be as discouraged from using it (since they could make DX10 games for a wider audience).

      On second thought, Vista-only DX10 is good -- maybe people will just switch to Linux and OpenGL instead. : )

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:And you know this to be true how? by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you need to be worried of any mass-exodus to linux anytime soon. Those who buy their games will buy vista, and those who pirate their games will pirate vista. I'm sorry but linux has no advantage (to gamers) over vista. :)

  53. Seeing a lot of DX dissing here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm seeing a whole lot of DirectX dissing here. Alls I gotta say to you fools is:

    Don't hate the playa. Hate the games.

  54. OpenGL is better by villekesekene · · Score: 0

    OpenGL is still better.

  55. Who cares by Aceticon · · Score: 1

    Direct X10.1, the sucessor to DirectX 10 will have exciting new features, bla, bla, bla ...

    As in the Vista only sucessor to the Vista only DirectX 10, that grand piece of thecnology which on it's own will make me - and possible many others - a long term user of the PC as gaming platform move to consoles ...

    With the current widspread practice in the industry of making "me too" games, putting graphics above playability and in general producing (at least in the PC) the most boring crop of games in the last 10 years (50% of which based on movies), i personally feel that DirectX 10 being Vista only was the one before last nail in the coffin of gaming on the PC, the last nail being when the gaming industry embraces it.

    Having been a long time fan of playing in the PC due to it being by nature the platform where the more complex and innovative games first appear, i'm now a fan of the budget games bin (trying to find those oldies but goodies which i missed when they first came out) and am aiming at getting a Whi to satisfy my future gaming needs.

    I suspect i'm not the only one doing this...

  56. Lack of customers locks out Linux/Mac. by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    Sorry its not Direct X. Its a lack of customers that does in the Linux and Mac groups.

    Put it this way, I can find hundreds if not thousands of posts here from Linux and Mac heads who always claim how much better their OS is. This goes hand in hand with all the claims that they do "real" stuff with the machines instead of playing games and that games are not important to an OS.

    Whats it going to be?

    If you can afford games you can afford buying an OS just to run them. Relegate XP to what many of you claim its only good for. Its cheaper than buying a console and you can have your good OS on it with your game OS.

    Macs went the way of publishing. Apple aimed them that way. They didn't cater to the gaming crowd or game developers. What would you expect to happen? Linux is too fragmented to cater to the developers - AND combine that with an attitude of it should be free or Open source or forget it and that scares off a lot of people. While it isn't always true, people out to make money from their games are going to see the negative side more than the positive.

    Microsoft, catered to the gamer and the developer. OpenGL would have been a good choice but if your going to market something it should be something you own. Direct X brought games out of the stoneage on computers. Before then it was a wreck. When the first voodoo cards came out with their Glide drivers it showed that a unified proprietary driver could succeed in the market. The market didn't care that it was closed, it only cared that it worked. Hence Direct X succeeded for the very same reasons. Just as Windows makes it easier for novices to use computers Direct X made it easier for developers to make games. Early versions were not that great but eventually it got better. When developers don't have to aim at individual cards but instead a baseline of "expected features" it eases developement.

    Don't expect any shift anytime soon. If anything being able to run XP on a Mac may just stop any market from forming. Hell I am curious if one day you will be able to buy a "Windows for Games" just to install on machines other than those installed with Xp/Vista/etc.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Lack of customers locks out Linux/Mac. by Danathar · · Score: 1

      My apoligies if I made it look like I meant it's the ONLY reason. I think DirectX contributes to the problem.

  57. Whats so special? by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    Simple. Where is the payoff for developing Direct X for other platforms?

    It works for the Windows platform. Consumers can get that platform about anywhere a Pc is sold. Support for the platform is usually the vendor of the Pc or Microsoft itself. So, why would you spend development time to take Direct X to another platform when it works just fine on its intended platform which comes with a ready market?

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  58. OpenGL vs. Direct3D (not DirectX) by pD-brane · · Score: 1

    Do not try to compare OpenGL with DirectX, but with Direct3D. DirectX is more than only 3D accelleration.

  59. Huh? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    At first I thought WDDM stood for Windows' Damn Digital Management.

    --
    -Styopa
  60. Re:If I hear "DirectX" this or "DirectX" that agai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will it work with my forehead VCR?

  61. Re:OpenGL doesn't seem good for the industry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

    Wow. Some hostility there hey?

    Do you suppose maybe OpenGL is (somewhat) behind because Microsoft has locked up much of the consumer graphics market with DirectX? Do you think maybe not having a giant monopoly in charge of the graphics api all their competitors use might be a good idea?

  62. here's some hate for you ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It upsets me a great deal that DX10 is vista only, because I'm still running Windows 2000 Professional... and I had no intention in upgrading to XP nor any other Microsoft operating system for the next *10 years*... because they made no "improvement" which I really want even if I got it for free, not a single one... well ok with the exception of 64bit support but I don't have a 64bit processor.

    Now suppose 1 DX10 game in my favourite Genre is relased the next following.. shall we say 3 years, sounds quite likely to me. It's simply so amazing, that it's a must have... to run it I have to buy software I don't want for 100s of $/... and it requires me to set up a dual boot with win2k so that I can use it when I don't play and don't have to be exposed to all the new irritating features which *bothers the hell out of me*. If it offered.. shall we say a new cool filesystem then I would be paying for something substantial other than a API change... but we all know what happend to said filesystem.

  63. You forgot the paradigm shift... by codemaster2b · · Score: 1

    Running games and graphics apps in OpenGL was better and faster than D3D - why? Simple! D3D had to go thru the OS first. OpenGL was direct to hardware.

    Vista does not allow direct-to-hardware video control. It is attempting to make everything go through it's own video layer first. I'm not sure it even can have the same type of advantage you say that OpenGL provides. This is truly a design choice, an attempt to make Windows of a different paradigm than say Linux or OSX.

    Not that this is inconsistent of Microsoft, or fundamentally 'wrong' per se, but strikes me as an attempt by one child to hog all the toys. They want a unique Windows platform. I personally believe we are past the age where diversity in platforms is inherently beneficial to the consumer.

    --
    And over there we have the labyrinth guards. One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask t