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The FBI Software Upgrade That Wasn't

Davemania writes "Washington Post reports that the FBI's attempt to modernize their department has once again failed. The 170 million dollar Virtual case File system, the agency's second attempt to go paperless is reported to be useless. The finger seems to be pointing at the FBI leadership, greedy contractors and bad software management." From the article: "It appeared to work beautifully. Until Azmi, now the FBI's technology chief, asked about the error rate. Software problem reports, or SPRs, numbered in the hundreds, Azmi recalled in an interview. The problems were multiplying as engineers continued to run tests. Scores of basic functions had yet to be analyzed. 'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"

381 comments

  1. I love you by neonprimetime · · Score: 4, Informative

    I love helping you /.ers out. Instead of spending painstaking hours clicking thru multiple page news stories, I sit here and quickly provide you with printer friendly links

    1. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      And gaining lots of karma in the process. How nice for you!

    2. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You think people are actually going to RTFA? You must be new here!

    3. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I the only one here who thinks that all this talk about karma is bullshit? What's the big deal?

    4. Re:I love you by Dr+Tall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You're why I have the modifier for ACs set to -6.

    5. Re:I love you by coaxial · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wonder why you saw that then.

    6. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares? It's trivial to max out karma.

    7. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're why I read at -1, I want to see what the AC's are saying about you behind your back. Here's a new sig for you: Dr Tool says: Ima fuckin tool.

    8. Re:I love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he browses at -6.

  2. Government Inefficiancy by mulhollandj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the anybody can screw up a big project like that it is the government. If it was 170 million of somebody's own money I think that it would have been done a lot better but since it is only the taxpayers money they seem to really mess things up. Perhaps this is one of the many reason we should limit the federal govt to their proper role as given in the Constitution.

    1. Re:Government Inefficiancy by NexFlamma · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've never understood why the government (whose inefficiency in regards to monetary spending has become almost cliche) doesn't set up a system for these sorts of big projects where the funds for it ARE someone's money.

      As you said, there would be much more motivation if it wasn't just taxpayer money, so why couldn't they use a system whereby they have several firms fund and set up different solutions and then the best solution gets a predetermined amount of money from the government?

      Since the firms would be initially shelling out their own money on the projects without a guarantee of reimbursement, you had better believe they would be busting their asses to make sure the products did what they needed to do quickly and efficiently.

      I'm living in a magical dream world, aren't I?

    2. Re:Government Inefficiancy by diersing · · Score: 2, Informative
      Its not just governments, if you have a corporation dedicating a load of money towards some project the same will happen. Although the principles of project management, software development life cycles and security have matured, their adoption (of the processes) has not.

      So you end up with directors forcing managers, PMs and the like to adopt the formalized procedures and their unfamiliarity with the process leads to cost overruns and issues. So you outsource it and inevitably (every case I've personally seen anyway), you get cost overruns and finger pointing - outsource company says internal resource aren't responsive enough, internal resources say outsource company wants to dominate their time with daily conference calls and meetings that inevitable forces delays to the work being done. The bottom line, is no one ends up taking ownership of the work - they'd rather talk about it and run the billable hours up.

    3. Re:Government Inefficiancy by lancejjj · · Score: 5, Funny

      Software problem reports, or SPRs, numbered in the hundreds,

      If this software system runs under Windows, they started with a Problem Report baseline in the thousands. If they got it down into the hundreds, Kudos!

    4. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I used to be a civil servant, and yes, here at the Dept. for I'm Not Allowed To Tell You we wasted vast sums of money. Then we were outsourced to a certain IT company, again, I'm not allowed to say whom, even if it does sound like an ex Englang goal keeper, and they are certainly more efficient, at wasting money.

      Yes, I've worked both sides of the fence, and quite frankly, the civil service side wasted less, had fewer penpushers, was more rigourous in vetting suppliers, and brought it's project in nearer budget and deadline (that was nearer, not on!)

      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    5. Re:Government Inefficiancy by MECC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It really sounds as though the FBI needs a real IT department of their own, not the isolated geeks helping out Mulder and Scully. And, if some "CIO" type waddles in and recommends another outsourcing, maybe the sidearm arguement should be used.

      Outsource, and this is what you get. They must hire MBA's. Really, sensitive government data projects like this one should never be outsourced, if only for national security reasons.

      --
      "We are all geniuses when we dream"
      - E.M. Cioran
    6. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Lurker187 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting idea, but then you'd eliminate anyone but the Halliburtons, Lockheeds, and in this case maybe the big tech companies who have the assets to front the funds, especially since if this works and they all do their jobs, there is still no payment to all but one of those who designed a perfectly working system.

      Instead, I don't see why companies aren't fined (put it in the contract) or sued for everything the government spent on a system that has to be scrapped. Smaller companies would be run out of business, but rightfully so, and even big companies would have put all that work into it for absolutely nothing. Those are both pretty good motivations to get it right. But that probably doesn't happen because, as someone said, there's no one person ultimately responsible for the money, and those government employees who deal directly with the multibillion dollar contractors may hope to get a VERY lucrative job with them eventually, and so stay cozy with them.

      --
      [command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
    7. Re:Government Inefficiancy by flooey · · Score: 1

      As you said, there would be much more motivation if it wasn't just taxpayer money, so why couldn't they use a system whereby they have several firms fund and set up different solutions and then the best solution gets a predetermined amount of money from the government?

      A lot of defense contracts are awarded by biddable contract, and I've heard (though not from a reliable source) that new marines are told during boot camp to always remember that their rifles were made by the lowest bidder.

      It definitely has the potential to save money, but it also raises questions about just what the companies are doing to achieve that savings.

    8. Re:Government Inefficiancy by EatHam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Parent is hardly flamebait. I have a very hard time thinking of anything at all that this or any government has accomplished that was two of:
      On time
      At, under, or near budget
      Performed as designed.

      Mark it flamebait or troll if you want, or just reply with any example.

    9. Re:Government Inefficiancy by punkr0x · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If this software system runs under Windows, they started with a Problem Report baseline in the thousands. If they got it down into the hundreds, Kudos!
      This is modded funny but I seriously agree. What perfect world is this guy living in? I've seen software that doesn't even GET tested before it starts shipping.

      'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"
      He's got it all backwards!
    10. Re:Government Inefficiancy by smbell · · Score: 1

      I really don't see how this is flamebait. It's common knowledge that government projects are always over budget, have schedule overruns, and fail to perform as required. I could probably come up with more than 100 example with a single Google search. I think you'd have to do some serious research to find a project/program that actually worked as expected and came in near budget.

    11. Re:Government Inefficiancy by tehcyder · · Score: 0
      there would be much more motivation if it wasn't just taxpayer money
      What they should do is nominate one lead programmer who is then personally responsible for the whole project. If it works, he gets $170m, if it fails, he owes the Government $170m.

      I think you'll find that pretty fucking motivating!

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    12. Re:Government Inefficiancy by GMontag · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am a defense contractor, Defense Financial Manager.

      Actually, the funds are someone's money. The Contracting Officers are legally "on-the-hook" for the things they sign for. If they authorize payment for something that was not delivered and the government does not get it's money back, then they are supposed to be liable for the money they released.

      If they continue working for the government a payment schedule is arranged and they have money deducted from their salary. If they get any other money from the government (ex:retirement) that is used toward the debt.

      The rules over here at DoD tend to be much more strict than at other agencies, contrary to what some in the media would lead you to believe.

      I hear that one of the problems now, with non DoD activities, is that there are not many prosecutions going on for that sort of thing. Also, the way these stories are written, there may not have been any wrongdoing at all (check my .sig) other than the exagerations by the reporter. It could be a case of a badly written contract that the government accepted, but if the terms for payment were met then nobody is on the hook for the money, but should be losing their job.

      In my case, since I am just a contractor and not a government officer, in this role, (in another position I am sometimes in uniform for the Reserves) I am never on the hook for the agency funds, but my customer is and if his error is due to my doing bad work then I am at risk of losing my job, which can happen with no notice.

    13. Re:Government Inefficiancy by GIL_Dude · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      That's funny, I'll give you that. Now, if it ran under linux nobody in their office would have figued out how to install it so the reports would have been zero. They would have asked the vendor for help and would have gotten "rtfm phukn nOOb".

    14. Re:Government Inefficiancy by The_REAL_DZA · · Score: 1

      Very interesting, but I think the overall problem that would face such an idea would be that the existing crop of "government contractors" are all addicted to the "government teat" and would be unwilling to lift the proverbial finger without an already-awarded contract (and a lucre-ative one, at that. Pun intended.)

      It would probably take a new "industry" entirely to break out of the current mold -- maybe the new spaceflight ventures have what it'd take...

      --


      This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
    15. Re:Government Inefficiancy by mcmonkey · · Score: 1
      Damn dam.

      Under budget and on schedule.

    16. Re:Government Inefficiancy by indifferent+children · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's common knowledge that government projects are always over budget...

      That's true for large corporations as well. I worked as a contractor in the Chicago area (not for Anderson Consulting), and had one customer (pharma) tell me that they brought in Anderson for $3m/month for over 2 years, and got 'nothing' for their expense. I saw the same thing with other companies, including one of the largest building-controls companies in the world. It seems that size is the killer, and the reason that federal govt projects are so expensive and delayed is because of the size (not the nature) of the organization.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    17. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      There's at least $170 million of development in Windows. Does it work any better? I think the problem is the perception that it is POSSIBLE to write software this complex that is bug free.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    18. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I don't know of a single software project ANYWHERE , public or private industry, that matches those three requirements. In fact, it's widely regarded in modern software project managment that those three items you listed are mutually exclusive, as in:
      On Time
      Under Budget
      Works as Designed
      CHOOSE ANY TWO!

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    19. Re:Government Inefficiancy by smbell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. While large corporate projects can be prone to the same problems, they rarely (if ever) reach the same level of incompetence and are still allowed to run to completion. A big distinction is that when government projects blow out way beyond their scope they are rewarded with more money, when that happens in a corporation the project is usually shut down. The government environment encourages waste while the private environment punishes it.

    20. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      But likely not "working as designed", or as I put it "working as the daft lusers thought that it could by reading their minds".

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    21. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It really sounds as though the FBI needs a real IT department of their own, not the isolated geeks helping out Mulder and Scully.
      A failed 170 million dollar, mission-critical software application? Sounds like they've already got a real IT department of their own to me.
    22. Re:Government Inefficiancy by The+Spoonman · · Score: 1

      Only when you have technophobic unix guys running it.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    23. Re:Government Inefficiancy by electroniceric · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem isn't really that it's someone else's money, cause that's true at all companies. How much of your company's market cap did you or your boss or your boss's boss put in? In most cases, approximately 0 - it's Wall Street's money, which means it's millions of pension-payers' money rather than millions of tax-payers' money.

      The driving problem is the rigidness and stagnation of the government's bureaucracy. The impulse to build this kind of lumbering bureaucracy was a good one - it's called civil service, and it's basically a way to insulate long-term government functions from short-term politicians, keep government employees from becoming the minions of whichever politician wants to build a personal empire. There's no question that the limitations of that approach are killing government. On the other hand, do you really want a civil service that can be downsized or force to work on producing bogus intelligence so we can invade 17 more countries? Or a government whose job is to buy as many copies of Microsoft Vapor Server as it can possibly cram into an appropriations bill? The idea that the government is fundamentally incapable is a useless one, sorta like existentialism, in that it fails to answer the question of what we DO as a result of that insight. Do you seriously propose that the FBI be run by a private interest? I'd rather not have someone like Verizon or ChoicePoint watching my back, thank you - at least the government has a mandate to protect people and not just make money off of them. And there's a name for the head of an large private armed force: warlord.

      The article touches on the fact that government has progressively become a comparatively worse place to work than the private sector, because of the bureaucracy and because the salaries don't keep pace with the private sector. A friend of mine is working on Sentinel, and he's been really surprised to find an FBI-side partner who actually wants to oversee the work. If you do think that police work at the federal level should be the job of government, then how do we go about really fixing the FBI?

      Government is what citizens make it. And here's the rub: under the past 25 years of leadership of the small-government zealots, we managed to prevent government from making important investments - e.g.: roads (any idea how many bridges in this country haven't been maintained in decades, and what the long-term maintenance will cost on the vast numbers of roads we've built?), emergency planning, a healthy population, an educated workforce, etc. These investments are the infrastructure on which the economy is built. And this stellar leadership has not only managed to give short shrift to the future, but it's utterly failed to address the real problems they correctly identified with government. Anti-government conservatism is a bankrupt ideology - it's nice to kick the government for it's failures real and perceived, but when push comes to shove, it offers no real alternative for building the public underpinnings of our economy and our lives, just faith that the free market fairy will come fix all our problems. We live in an extraordinarily pragmatic age: one where you can assemble data on a large scale to decide if something works or doesn't. It's time to stop carping and give our government a mandate to do this and find its way out of quandaries like the civil service vs. Tamany Hall problem.

      Sorry for the rant. Somebody talk to me about fixing the FBI.

    24. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bean123456789 · · Score: 1

      just reply with any example

      That information is classified

    25. Re:Government Inefficiancy by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Since the firms would be initially shelling out their own money on the projects without a guarantee of reimbursement, you had better believe they would be busting their asses to make sure the products did what they needed to do quickly and efficiently.

      I'm no MBA, but I'm pretty sure that firms don't like to invest billions of dollars into projects for which they might end up not getting paid at all.

      Under your system, I think you'd find that all the private firms with a lick of sense would pass on the opportunity to compete for the project, and the one single company that does give it a go will do a halfassed job of it because they're guaranteed the money no matter what. In other words, it's a lot like our current government contracting system.

    26. Re:Government Inefficiancy by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      Some years back the state of Oregon spent a similar ammount upgradign their DMV. Again, it never worked and was written off as a hopless waste of money. Its ok though, its only tax money...

      horseshoes and....

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    27. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yes.

      Lets say the Gov't agency shortlists to 3 vendors. These do contracts for many similar agencies. Each builds a full working system to choose from. The Gov't agency chooses the best. Now they have to pay the contractor 3x the cost of the system, just so the contractor can stay profitable considering the 2/3 of contracts it looses.

      So now you get a working system every time, but you spend 3 times as much as it should have cost in the first place.

      No, what the Gov't needs are two things:
      Use COTS/OSS products wherever possible
      Keep contracts to a digestible size

      It always seems that the bloated contracts are the ones that are most likely to fail. Far better to bid out in 10 pieces, and only have to replace the 30% that fail, than to have to replace the whole system.

    28. Re:Government Inefficiancy by EatHam · · Score: 1

      I don't know if I'd hold up the Hoover Dam as a model of efficiency... I'm relatively Libertarian, and even I cringe when I think about how they got their efficiency...

    29. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      the isolated geeks helping out Mulder and Scully

      Dude, the Lone Gunmen are dead.

    30. Re:Government Inefficiancy by letxa2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Really, sensitive government data projects like this one should never be outsourced, if only for national security reasons.


      Right. Like the government builds its own F-15's, right? Really, different organizations are good at different things. The FBI is an investigation organization, not software development. Their expertise is (or should be) investigation and they should outsource those things that are not in the area of expertise. Just like I don't build my own house, I pay someone to do that that knows more about it than I do.

      What amazes me is that projects like this can "fail." While it's not within the FBI's area of expertise to develop a computer system, it's not rocket science for those in the field. Heck, give me half that--$85 million--and I'll develop the friggin' system myself.

    31. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The FBI is a long way from getting an IT department thats worth anything.

      IT people who work there know you'll hit a cap very early on. The only way to make money in goverment IT is to be a private contractor. And the reality is, most good IT people expect a certain amount of money.

      And then what about those few IT people who work because they believe in the country? Give them a few months. Make a 1-line change in code and need to wait a month for approval because the layers are management and approvals are so thick, that illusion quickly fades. By the time you get approval you'll have noticed there are 2-3 more lines that have to be changed, now you need to get approvals all over again.

      They try to recover, again, with private goverment contractors where you can at least work.

      I've heard better things about military IT, where I at least know happy programmers there. They may not be paid the most, but they love who they work for (good managers), and they love the job.
      This of course varies, but military intelligence at least seems to treat people better.

      I've never met a happy programmer at the FBI.

    32. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      When corporate projects run into problems, they don't get shut down, the endpoints just get redefined. Once you kiddoos get out of mommy's basement and into the world; if you ever start experiencing how corporate life really works, instead of reading and thinking about how it ought to work, you'll know this.
      The extent of the government's role in the FBI project is just to accept or reject the system. The contractors who "manage" the project, and the contractors who do the tech work, are exactly the same ones who contract to AOL, or Sprint/Nextel, or any of the other private companies in this area. And, their projects are just as fucked up as anything happening in government. (Except maybe CSCs IRS project- but that's just because unmatched scale makes for unmatched fucked-upness.)

    33. Re:Government Inefficiancy by EatHam · · Score: 1

      Which is why I said that you couldn't find a project that had two of the above-mentioned items.

    34. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Rorschach1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to agree with this. I've worked as a contractor along side civil servants and uniformed military personnel. It's rare for the military folks to stick around more than two years in one place, and one job - in some posts, 9 months was about average. The civil service guys had typically been around for many years, and had a much greater sense of ownership of their systems and processes.

      I worked on a system that was developed in-house by civil servants. It was an effective system because it was developed by the people who needed it, and it was relatively inexpensive. I worked on it as a contractor, but I was there long-term (most of a decade), and it was MY system - I was right down the hall from the guys using it, I spent enough time with them to know at least the basics of all of their jobs, and it was MY problem to make it all work. I had a vested interest in making sure it ran smoothly and required as little maintenance as possible. After all, less time fixing things means more time on Slashdot.

      But along came a sweeping billion-dollar modernization project, and someone decided it was time to replace the system. That was around ten years ago. Tens of millions of dollars later, they still haven't matched the usability of the old system. But the contractors have no incentive to make it work. Once they hand it over, it's ANOTHER company's job to maintain it and fix it. There's way too much separation between the people doing the work, and the people using the end result.

    35. Re:Government Inefficiancy by hswerdfe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Apollo Program...sigh I went back to the 1960's

      --
      --meh--
    36. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      " It compiles!! Ship it! "
      -- Microsoft

      " It's almost ready for Intel/Apple! "
      " Tell the world to sign up for the beta! "
      -- Vmware

      " Sir, the 3D effects are fixed, but last night's build -- it's not compiling! "
      " Delay it another year!!! "
      -- Duke Nukem Forever Developers

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    37. Re:Government Inefficiancy by NialScorva · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, you won't.

      The software isn't tricky, it's the politics. The FBI is a feifdom of petty departmental tyrants and ancient practices. Several friends of mine have worked on the case file system in various incarnations, the problem is that the COTRs come in and define the requirements to be "exactly the same thing as this 25 year old main frame, but on a web page". One guy was having problems because his COTR was telling him that it had to be green text on a black background. That may have been an exageration, but based upon my experience it's quite belivable.

      I don't care how good of an engineer you are, you can't build a product for a customer can not or will not help you determine what their needs are.

    38. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bunions · · Score: 1

      The larger the organization, the larger the waste, full stop. Whether that organization is public or private has little to do with anything.

      Everyone complains about the gov't because it's our money, but that kind of waste is just endemic to large organizations, not simply governments.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    39. Re:Government Inefficiancy by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, there is that....

      Guess the choice is Hoover Dam/Panama Canal-type public works projects that are efficient from a management/budgeting perspective but costly in terms of human life, or Big Dig-type public works projects that border on complete anarchy in terms of management and budget and yet...still costly in terms of human life.

      Oh. I guess peOH LOOK! A SHINY!

    40. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bunions · · Score: 1
      under the past 25 years of leadership of the small-government zealots, we managed to prevent government from making important investments - e.g.: roads (any idea how many bridges in this country haven't been maintained in decades, and what the long-term maintenance will cost on the vast numbers of roads we've built?), emergency planning, a healthy population, an educated workforce, etc. These investments are the infrastructure on which the economy is built. And this stellar leadership has not only managed to give short shrift to the future, but it's utterly failed to address the real problems they correctly identified with government. Anti-government conservatism is a bankrupt ideology - it's nice to kick the government for it's failures real and perceived, but when push comes to shove, it offers no real alternative for building the public underpinnings of our economy and our lives, just faith that the free market fairy will come fix all our problems.


      I hope you're not a dude because I am totally in love with you.
      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    41. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bunions · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. I've been on several gov't projects that have been cancelled due to budget overruns, whereas I've been on several projects for large brokerage houses that go far, far over budget and yet are maintained for no reason other than making sure a VP doesn't have to admit they were wrong.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    42. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      They day they switch over to Linux is the day I start robbing banks... In the time it takes for the average govenment civil servant to even figure out "man pages", I figure I can have a dozen banks knocked over...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    43. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      This is modded funny but I seriously agree. What perfect world is this guy living in? I've seen software that doesn't even GET tested before it starts shipping.

      This isn't a perfect world thing, it's how real software development is done. Just because you've seen it done that way doesn't make it a good idea.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    44. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "It really sounds as though the FBI needs a real IT department of their own"

      In case you hadn't noticed, most experienced hackers that fit the technical side of the bill are -
      A) too ethical to work for the FBI
      B) unable to pass the psych screening
      C) already being watched by the FBI and/or have criminal records
      D) to out of shape to pass boot camp (even IT agents are still FBI agents)
      E) making too much in the private sector to consider the paycut

      For what it is worth I can remember around 1998 or so there were huge recruiting seminars for IT people that the FBI was hosting trying to hire a lot more technical types...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    45. Re:Government Inefficiancy by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      (Except maybe CSCs IRS project- but that's just because unmatched scale makes for unmatched fucked-upness.)

      Perhaps someone should "audit" the IRS and see where the money for that project went :)

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    46. Re:Government Inefficiancy by mulhollandj · · Score: 1

      I am not against government. Government is very necessary to protect rights and wealth. There are some things to government wants to do. The problem is that we have turned into a democracy instead of a republic. What is the difference? In a republic we follow law and in this constitutional republic we follow the Constitution. In a democracy the majority rules and quite frankly there are too many stupid people, including myself, who are too easily manipulated. Democracy has failed over and over again in history. Why? Because 51% soon realize that they can rob the public treasury. The 10th amendment in the Constitution limits the powers of the federal government. Unfortunately they have ignored this and gotten into things such as education, handouts, and many other unconstitutional things. Even if 51% want it it is illegal because the Constitution must be amended. Why have we become a democracy instead of a republic? That is a long story but it has a lot to do with the 17th amendment. People in a job in private industy often work hard because they want their company to grow so they can gain financial rewards. They make things more efficient and come up with innovative ideas and they get a nice big bonus check because of this. Does this happen in government? No.

    47. Re:Government Inefficiancy by sgt_doom · · Score: 3, Insightful
      FBI leadership, greedy contractors and bad software management.

      Really, it goes far beyond this (not that I don't fundamentally agree with your point). SAIC is simply another war profiteer and 9/11/01 "security" profiteer aligned with this administration. Their profits have soared with the attacks of 9/11/01 and the invasion and bloody occupation of Iraq. One need only look at their personnel roster to get a solid impression of what's wrong with the present fascist regime and globalist congress.

      The point is a transfer of wealth (taxpayers' monies) along with money laundering, it has absolutely nothing to do with achieving any goals. Certainly nothing to do with national security - as if anyone in this administration could pull their noses out of their assets portfolios long enough to notice....

    48. Re:Government Inefficiancy by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      I wonder how long before Google gets into the consultancy business...?

      Every time I hear of another failed government project (usually distributed databases of which there are alot here in the UK), I wish that someone like Google - a company that's taken the worlds biggest information dump and done a pretty good job of categorising it - would just step up and shout how so-and-so is doing it all wrong.

      Perhaps other /.'ers who've worked in governments can tell me why so many government IT prjects go awry? Is it forever shofting goalposts? Ill defined specs? Incompetent engineers? Corrupt finance director backhanders and lowest-bidderitis?

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    49. Re:Government Inefficiancy by woztheproblem · · Score: 1

      The IRS does get their programs and activities audited frequently, both by the Treasury Inspector General (http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/oa.shtml) and the Government Accountability Office. (http://www.gao.gov/docdblite/form.php?subhead=Tax +Policy+and+Administration&Submit=Submit+Search)

    50. Re:Government Inefficiancy by podperson · · Score: 1

      Big corporations are no different. I've personally been involved -- peripherally in several cases, directly in another -- in development projects for large corporates who burn tens of millions on projects that anyone on the project can tell, years ahead of "delivery", are doomed.

      The really sad thing is that by "architecting" a "complete" solution you spend ridiculous amounts of money and get nothing, while if you did something simple and organic and simply pushed outward from there you'd get somewhere, e.g.

      VPN
      Wiki
      Custom Security Layer
      Server Farm

      OR

      VPN
      Lots of random web servers, wikis, whatever the heck you want -- each with its own security
      Google turnkey search box (no doubt Google has an option for clients who won't allow remote admin)

      Neither of these would be "perfect", but the architected system they came up with is perfectly useless.

    51. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      The FBI does not need the sort of "hackers" that would have a problem with A-C. What they actually need are experienced IT professionals As for D, that's blatantly false. While the FBI does need Agents with a variety of backgrounds, including comupter science, the day to day IT work of support and projects is done by civilian Federal employees (or contractors), as you can see by the postings here.

      E is actually the only point with any validity, and is a major one.

    52. Re:Government Inefficiancy by punkr0x · · Score: 1

      I never said it was a good thing, but in any project there are going to be bugs. Discarding a $170 million project as "useless" because there are bugs seems kind of silly.

    53. Re:Government Inefficiancy by soft_guy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The Apollo Program

      For the millions they spent, they should have sent people to the moon for real.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    54. Re:Government Inefficiancy by radtea · · Score: 1

      If it was 170 million of somebody's own money I think that it would have been done a lot better

      It's nice that you think that. It's too bad it isn't true.

      Human stupidity is not limited to any one type of human organization, and the money spent by poor-quality managers in large corporations is no more the manager's own money than money spent by poor-quality managers in governments is.

      Fiscal control is the least important aspect of failures of this kind, and any serious student of large software project failures should read Stephen Flowers' Software Failure: Management Failure for a better understanding of how such projects go wrong. The book is an empirical study of ten failed software projects (most but not all of them public sector). He comes up with a list of risk factors that includes things like, "attempting to fix a management problem with a technological solution" and "lack of end-user buy-in", as well as more mundane issues like the adoption of multiple new technologies within the scope of a single project. Highly recommended.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    55. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The FBI does not need the sort of "hackers" that would have a problem with A-C.

      This may be somewhat like criterion A in that my ethics won't permit me to work for the FBI -- specifically my work ethic. I would rather make less working for a decent private sector company than deal with the batshit-insane internal politics of civil service, especially one such as the FBI.

    56. Re:Government Inefficiancy by smbell · · Score: 1

      We could go back and forth on this all day. Neither of us has any data to back up our claims of who is the worst offender, although had I the time I might argue motivations. I'd propose one more differentiating factor. When a corporate project has cost overruns that corporation has to pay the tabs and is therefore penalized for it (and if it continues the company will eventually be out of business) while I do not suffer (unless I own stock or am employed by said company, in either case I would be able to sell the stock or find another job). When a government project has cost overruns the managing entity is generally not reprimanded and the funds to finish the project become virtually unlimited. These funds come directly from us as tax paying citizens and reduce the amount of money that could be spent on other things and/or cause cries for tax increases (as if there needs to be a reason for those cries).

    57. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well you test the software before it ships, and test all of it, too. If the bug count is in the hundreds and (rapidly?) growing, that implies that it's in Gamma testing and unsuitable for release.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    58. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bunions · · Score: 1

      > We could go back and forth on this all day. Neither of us has any data to back up our claims of who is the worst offender

      That was my point. It's widely held as common knowledge that the government is incompetant, but common knowledge is just as frequently wrong as right.

      > When a government project has cost overruns the managing entity is generally not reprimanded and the funds to finish the project become virtually unlimited.

      Have you ever even worked for the government? What is your basis for this assertion?

      I've seen far, far more waste in corporate america, simply because they're not controlled by an external auditor, as are governmental agencies. Excluding all the classified stuff, of course, I dunno how that works.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    59. Re:Government Inefficiancy by budgenator · · Score: 1

      My first impression when i RTFA was , they should have borrowed a program adminstrator from the DOD and that shit wouldn't have happened. DOD went through all that pain and suffereing long ago and have much experience at keeping those weassels asses nailed to the wall.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    60. Re:Government Inefficiancy by cavemanf16 · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed that this dang FBI system didn't catch a clue the second time around and actual do the tried and tested iterative development process!

    61. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Not+The+Real+Me · · Score: 1

      ...Discarding a $170 million project as "useless" because there are bugs seems kind of silly.

      The real gist of the Washington Post article is that instead of getting a shrink wrapped document management app that works (i.e. Mambo, DocuShare http://docushare.xerox.com/ , DB2 Document Manager http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/cm/docmgr/ ), and customizing the working app, the FBI in all of its infinite wisdom decided to contract with Science Applications International Corp. (SAIC) to write one from scratch.

    62. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bxbaser · · Score: 1

      "several firms fund and set up different solutions and then the best solution gets a predetermined amount of money from the government"

      Because the "best solution" would probably be the best lobbyist, much as it is now. Nothing would really change except other companies would be wasting thier time and money, when they had no chance at winning the contract.

    63. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nettdata · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree that any project can get two of the following: "done better, done faster, done cheaper", but I've been involved in a lot of projects where all three of "under budget, works as designed, and on time" are satisfied.

      That's because I've hired one of the best, most technical project managers I've ever worked with. I pay him more than double what he made in his last job, and easily a third more than what he could get elsewhere. He is a hard-core programmer who gets project management and interacts well with clients.

      A lot of my devleopers hate him, because he doesn't let their shit slide. They HAVE to do things the way he says... proper requirement/design/implementation/test docs, code reviews, etc. If not, he is 100% empowered by me to kick some ass.

      We also take a lot of time to educate the client. That, to me, is the biggest problem... "stupid" clients. They don't understand software development, and don't properly equip themselves to ensure that their project will be successful. We refuse to work with any clients that are not prepared, as I've seen the nightmarish outcomes that can occur.

      Sure, it seems like common sense, but common sense just ain't so common any more.

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    64. Re:Government Inefficiancy by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      For various political reasons the 'best' solution (whatever that is) would never get the money and probably the company that really has a solid well designed product would go under because the other companies took the managers out for lunches (well, paid money one way or another,) or because they have relatives who work there or other non-technical reasons.

      On the other hand here is a more workable idea: Setup a competition between a few companies (like what you proposed,) but at the end use the best solution and pay like 3 times the cost of that solution to the selected company. To the others pay their expense or a minimum amount (whichever is smaller.) The minimum amount should be decided prior to the project. All companies must be made aware of this minimum amount.

      However there is one caveat here: the application specifications must be concrete. Any change of the spec must cause increase (or decrease) of the minimum amount. There must be an agreed delivery date.

      The firms that deliver less than 100% of functionality by the end date will get less than 100% of the minimum compensation (deliver 60% of functionality, get 60% of the money.)

      Is this a good idea? It will cause real urge to deliver working software that is better than the competition. At the end, the company that delivers the most correct solution will have additional contracts, the other ones don't have to go under. The monetary risk of this kind of development is limited to (the # of participating firms + 3) * the minimum amount (or expense).

      For some reason I don't believe the government officials will desire to overprice the project in this situation. I maybe wrong of-course.

    65. Re:Government Inefficiancy by electroniceric · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, big guy - dude and spoken for. This is Sausagedot, though, so getting your hopes up is a dangerous thing.

    66. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      True enough- but my point is that it's not just the government that has this problem, but the software industry in general.

      There isn't a significantly complex project I know of ANYWHERE that fits this mold.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    67. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      That's because I've hired one of the best, most technical project managers I've ever worked with. I pay him more than double what he made in his last job, and easily a third more than what he could get elsewhere. He is a hard-core programmer who gets project management and interacts well with clients.

      Wouldn't that automatically make him overbudget in any publicly traded company or government, where cost is a concern?

      We also take a lot of time to educate the client. That, to me, is the biggest problem... "stupid" clients. They don't understand software development, and don't properly equip themselves to ensure that their project will be successful. We refuse to work with any clients that are not prepared, as I've seen the nightmarish outcomes that can occur.

      In government and publically traded companies, you don't get to pick your clients. You work with who they tell you to work with. So I guess you've found the way around it: Pick your consituents/customers carefully enough, and you won't have any significantly complex projects to worry about.

      Sure, it seems like common sense, but common sense just ain't so common any more.

      And also, did it occur to you that NEITHER of your methods are applicable to any large bureaucracy, public or private sector? There's no way you could get away with paying your high-priced project manager like that if you had any beancounter non-technical oversight at all; and same with turning down customers. The ONLY thing that allows you to do this is that you are small potatoes in comparison to $170 million projects with public or stockholder money; and some would say your way is actualy LESS efficient (though not me- I'd say instead you've learned the lesson of The Mythical Man Month and figured out the correct way to handle it, thus you have successful projects that would NEVER be used in a bureaucracy anywhere in the world).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    68. Re:Government Inefficiancy by smbell · · Score: 1

      I've worked both in government and (currently) in the private sector. For the government I was enlisted in the military for four years, and later worked as a contractor for a couple years.

      I agree that both private and public organizations have problems with cost overruns. My disagreement is that IMO the pressures in public projects tend to promote low initial estimates and disregard for spending overruns (federal is bad, some states do a really good job with audits, but many are audits are toothless). In the private sector the pressures promote accurate (as best as possible) cost estimates, and adherence to budget and time constraints.

      I'm not at all suggesting that all government projects get screwed up, and all private projects are pristine, but I am suggesting that the tendencies favor private projects.

    69. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Ana10g · · Score: 1

      Actually, you are not. I don't know specifics or exact numbers, but the way that contracting works with at least a few portions of the government is that, if the target deliverable is projected to cost over X amount, then a study phase is commissioned first, exactly as you describe. At the end of the study phase, then the best solution is to be chosen to go forward and implement the full system. Now, as for that working in real life(TM), that obviously wasn't the case here.

      --
      just an analog boy living in a digital age.
    70. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Ana10g · · Score: 1

      Yea, pretty much, the only way to get punished is to piss off another contractor with equally deep pockes, as in this case.

      --
      just an analog boy living in a digital age.
    71. Re:Government Inefficiancy by tmassa99 · · Score: 1
      The problem isn't really that it's someone else's money, cause that's true at all companies.

      Perhaps for publicly traded companies who have willing investors, but no one forces me to buy over-priced stock in a company I don't believe in, I don't want stock of, and doesn't let me sell it when I know the "Management" sucks.
    72. Re:Government Inefficiancy by flibuste · · Score: 1

      That's not surprising at all. Users will ask what they are used to. The role of consultants should be to drive them, but in most cases, it's the contrary. And consultants rarely go against ridiculous user requirements that don't make sense. They do the job, get the cash and go before it blows off.

      Incredibly enough, the software world is still a world where experts don't really have their say. It's a bit like if I, as a car driver, would dictate how GM creates its next car because I am the one who buys it, despite the fact that I don't know a thing in mechanics and how to build an engine.

    73. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Is it forever shofting goalposts? Ill defined specs? Incompetent engineers? Corrupt finance director backhanders and lowest-bidderitis?
      Yes.
    74. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nasch · · Score: 1

      There's not always agreement on these terms. What do you mean by "democracy" and "republic"? I can't make sense of it.

    75. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nettdata · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not sure what context you're talking about, but I'm talking about things from MY context, as the owner of software development and services companies. Sure, I won't be doing any $170 million dollar contracts any time soon, but I have been involved in many $100 million dollar ones.

      Also, I'm not responding directly to the specific case of the story, just the parent's generalized statement regarding software projects.

      When you get to be involved in a large Government project, there's not much you can do, as it takes on a life of it's own (usually, I imagine a giant ball of snakes in a very deep pit).

      Wouldn't that automatically make him overbudget in any publicly traded company or government, where cost is a concern?

      I think you're just taking a short/small/unrealistic view at what "cost" is. Sure, my PM might be out of the normal scale for PM's, but I can easily show business cases that justify his "extra" cost (usually less than 2% of the total project, on projects $.5 - $5 million) vs. being late, over budget, and not having something that works. And, I've never had to sell to the "bean counters". I've sold to the client's management, or champions of the project. Sure, bean counters will go over the estimates and projections and costs, and bitch about a whole bunch of stuff, but then we explain and justify those items, and it's all good. I have YET to deal with any client that didn't get it. Let's face it, if I can't sell a higher-than-normal PM to the project, then I'm not doing my job properly. I haven't had a problem doing so in the contracts we've done. And those contracts are with US/CDN Governments and banks. And we deal in very large, complex systems, predominately in globally distributed Oracle installations.

      In government and publically traded companies, you don't get to pick your clients. You work with who they tell you to work with. So I guess you've found the way around it: Pick your consituents/customers carefully enough, and you won't have any significantly complex projects to worry about.

      Once again, not sure what context you're talking in... I'll assume that it's the Government as client.

      Don't kid yourself, governments and public companies FOR SURE have a say in who they work with. When you get right down to it, there is usually ONE GUY/GIRL that is responsible for the project, and has a huge amount to say in who gets the contract. And they generally have the skills (political) to get their way with any kind of oversight that may be in place. To think otherwise would be very naieve, IMO. I have seen sooo many examples of RFP's/contracts/requirements being worded in such a specific manner that only one particular supplier would meet the requirements, just so that the customer could be guaranteed that that supplier would be picked. (I've been on the receiving end of a few of them). I've also seen a large project broken down into many, many smaller ones so that each piece is within the "arbitrary assignment" limit, allowing the manager to authorize the contract himself, without having to go to tender or oversight.

      As to the case where I'm the supplier to the client, I guess I'm just used to being at the top of the org chart of a smaller company, because I do exactly that... I pick my clients very, very carefully. As it is, I've declined probably 40% of our potential contracts over the past 2 years because of the potential risk to my company. Unless you're a monster company, like Anderson or IBM, you have to take a serious look at any project you're going to be involved in and evaluate the risk and return on investment. Even then, pick wrong, and it can kill you off. (Enron/Anderson?) And not just the financial ROI... your reputation can make or break you. Go see how well Pangaea is doing around the BC Government these days... their reputation is killing them, slowly but surely.

      And it's not about picking the "easy" contracts... we enjoy pushing ourselves as much as anyone who is good at their job. I just wan

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    76. Re:Government Inefficiancy by bunions · · Score: 1

      That's a nonsequiter. The point is that in a publicly traded company, and frequently in a privately-held company, the people who make the decision to spend money aren't spending their own money, or even the money of someone they any aquaintance with. Just like in a governmental agency.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    77. Re:Government Inefficiancy by kabocox · · Score: 1

      It really sounds as though the FBI needs a real IT department of their own, not the isolated geeks helping out Mulder and Scully. And, if some "CIO" type waddles in and recommends another outsourcing, maybe the sidearm arguement should be used.

      Outsource, and this is what you get. They must hire MBA's. Really, sensitive government data projects like this one should never be outsourced, if only for national security reasons.


      I'm kinda mixed. I think that the group that was responsible for NASAs space shuttle software and testing need to be incharge of an entire federal IT department. Although it sounds nice for the FBI to have its own IT group/division or what not, really all of the government needs those functions. The FBI should just budget 5-10 million a year toward the Federal IT division for writing/maintaining their software. I like to live in ideal land though. Ideally, everything the Feds would do would be secured and be written for https at a min. I would hope that our government could just write a check to yahoo, goggle, or hotmail for a webmail for the feds so that they could logon at mail.fbi.gov and send logged secure e-mail with certificates that the e-mail came from the fbi.gov. Really, how difficult is that do to? You don't need outlook, or an e-mail program, just keep it all in webmail and they should atleast have access to modern e-mail.

    78. Re:Government Inefficiancy by physx · · Score: 1

      Fermilab.

      Check out "The God Particle" by Leon Lederman, which mentions the fact that it was on budget.

      I'd say that it has exceeded expectations, especially considering the fact that folks expected to have a supercollider built later on.

      One example, and possibly not what you were considering, but it was a pretty bold statement.

    79. Re:Government Inefficiancy by starseeker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fixing the FBI is not possible in general - without very good people there is simply no way to make a good organization. Specific issues might be addressed, however:

      1) First step, IDENTIFY THE REQUIREMENTS of a new system. Create use cases. Observe what actually is done day to day for at least three to six months (this will need people with security clearance out the wazoo). Be sure to follow some issues beginning to end. Also, identify relevant policy and law that the FBI needs to observe - the system should be build to help ensure that proper steps are taken, both by making it easy to do the mundane work and hard to do things that will have a big negative impact on people (make the latter tracable to individuals in ALL cases - build accountablity into the system.) And for goodness sakes, don't throw out ideas in the old system if they are good, just because they're part of the "old way".
      2) Second step, design and implement a small scale trial in one or two offices, working in parallel with the existing system. Identify and correct problems.
      3) Gradually scale up, and in each new introduction have people familiar with both the FBI's old system and the workings of the new help with the transition. Be resigned to huge amounts of grunt work, figuring out where old files are, cataloging and re-entering info, etc. etc. etc. Because this is a matter of law enforcement, all old materials should be retained in case of mistakes. Budget for all this annoying, unsexy, but essential work. The framework must be strong enough to handle what will be put in it, but putting the content into it will be a huge task and that should be part of the design stage.

      I personally think this is one situation where things like provably correct software are needed - law enforcement doesn't need any more problems, and lawyers don't need to get a chance to play around with "computer glitch" gotchas or problems.

      Large systems are often hopelessly overweight and complex, so they should not be involved with the technical design. Such organizations ARE, however, very good at following regulations, instructions, and systems. Those traits should be utilized as much as possible.

      One other design feature should be that all records, when updated, should have a printed record be automatically generated and stored somewhere (or several places). Computer data is too easy to change - the poster who mentioned tracibility is absolutely correct. A hard copy is MUCH easier to work with, and automatic organized printed records should be a part of the design from the get go.

      --
      "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
    80. Re:Government Inefficiancy by fizzfaldt · · Score: 1
      and I've heard (though not from a reliable source) that new marines are told during boot camp to always remember that their rifles were made by the lowest bidder.
      Speaking as a former marine, that does not seem to be the rule.
      There are a lot of drill instructors with their own habits, I would not be surprised if at least some of them pointed that out.
      I do recall one of my drill instructors informing us that some of our rifles were from Word War II.
    81. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see what is so phukn hard about saying the following:

      Government: We need this.
      Contractor: We will do it for this.

      *signs contract*

      *three years later*

      Contractor: Turns out we need twice as much money to fund this.
      Government (slowly removes his sidearm): Really?
      Contractor: No, sorry, we'll be done in a week and a half *Hurriedly shuffles out of room)

    82. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      E is actually the only point with any validity, and is a major one.

      Its not really as bad as you think, once you consider the benefits. But for anyone with career advancement on their mind will quickly discover that the FBI culture disdains their support people, if you're not a field agent your opinion is worthless.

    83. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Not sure what context you're talking about, but I'm talking about things from MY context, as the owner of software development and services companies. Sure, I won't be doing any $170 million dollar contracts any time soon, but I have been involved in many $100 million dollar ones.

      Note the word OWNER- governments don't have owners, and nor do publically traded companies. I'm talking about the fact that bureaucracies, unlike dictatorships, have limitations. Limitations that guarantee that large complex projects will come in over budget, late, outside of original spec, or some combination thereof.

      Also, I'm not responding directly to the specific case of the story, just the parent's generalized statement regarding software projects.

      Yes- and I'm talking LARGE software projects. As in ones that are far more complex than a simple e-commerce website or small database. Ones that have business rules that you'd simply cancel the customer for insisting upon.

      I think you're just taking a short/small/unrealistic view at what "cost" is.

      The basic I've heard is that if you're paying industry average in government, you're paying too much. Likewise in private industry, if you have a project you can't make money from in under 4 months, the shareholders will force you to cut it.

      Sure, my PM might be out of the normal scale for PM's, but I can easily show business cases that justify his "extra" cost (usually less than 2% of the total project, on projects $.5 - $5 million) vs. being late, over budget, and not having something that works. And, I've never had to sell to the "bean counters". I've sold to the client's management, or champions of the project. Sure, bean counters will go over the estimates and projections and costs, and bitch about a whole bunch of stuff, but then we explain and justify those items, and it's all good. I have YET to deal with any client that didn't get it. Let's face it, if I can't sell a higher-than-normal PM to the project, then I'm not doing my job properly. I haven't had a problem doing so in the contracts we've done. And those contracts are with US/CDN Governments and banks. And we deal in very large, complex systems, predominately in globally distributed Oracle installations.

      I work in State Government- and we can't even fill the positions we have because the beancounters won't let us pay industry standard wages. When I worked in private industry, the story was the same- except it was the shareholders. Selling higher costs just would get the project cut entirely. I lost more jobs that way than I can count- which is why I'm now in State government where I at least have some protection.

      Don't kid yourself, governments and public companies FOR SURE have a say in who they work with. When you get right down to it, there is usually ONE GUY/GIRL that is responsible for the project, and has a huge amount to say in who gets the contract. And they generally have the skills (political) to get their way with any kind of oversight that may be in place. To think otherwise would be very naieve, IMO. I have seen sooo many examples of RFP's/contracts/requirements being worded in such a specific manner that only one particular supplier would meet the requirements, just so that the customer could be guaranteed that that supplier would be picked. (I've been on the receiving end of a few of them). I've also seen a large project broken down into many, many smaller ones so that each piece is within the "arbitrary assignment" limit, allowing the manager to authorize the contract himself, without having to go to tender or oversight.

      In Oregon, that's a great way to get fired as a manager, and investigated/thrown in jail for misuse of taxpayer funds.

      I'm just saying that I've made some tough, hard-learned decisions in my companies that have resulted in very successful software development projects, where the guys work 40 hours a week, and it gets delivered when we say it will, and it costs what we s

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    84. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nettdata · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you've also found a few loopholes in the oversight- which helps greatly as well. I've only had 15 years in this industry and seen nothing but "failure" from unrealistic expectations, such as the one in the original article that a large software project should have ZERO bug reports among ALL testers and users before it works. Even with your superman PM- can you say that you have had ZERO bug reports? On ANY project? Not "bugs that have been addressed". Not "bugs deemed too small to deal with". ZERO bugs. Heck, any significantly complex GUI is going to garner complaints from somebody who just wants to complain.

      I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but of COURSE you're going to fail if you have unreasonable expectations. Duh! I've never even hinted otherwise. In fact, I don't accept those contracts that are unreasonable. It's not a "make money at all costs over the short term" proposition. In my opinion, the "CTO" (and I use that word loosely) of the project was a moron and it sounds like he was a political appointment with no clue rather than someone who actually has been there in the trenches.

      I've also never said we've ever had (or expect) zero bugs. We FULLY expect to have them, (and yes, we get them plenty) but my "superman PM" knows enough to estimate for them going in, and deal with them when they arrive. Our experience has allowed us to limit the number of bugs we have, and our process allows us to mitigate the risks as best as we can, and our quality control ensures that they are handled internally as much as possible, so that the client never sees most of them.

      I'm not sure what your beef is, but I was just addressing the original statement (yours, now that I look back) about how all project come in late, over budget, and don't work. Maybe the ones you've been involved in have been like that, but for ME, that's not the case. (Not saying it was your fault, etc., just your exposure)

      I work in State Government- and we can't even fill the positions we have because the beancounters won't let us pay industry standard wages.

      Then you're fucked right out of the gate. Sounds to me like it's pretty silly to stick around in that environment and constantly be involved with projects that do nothing but fail, unless you have no other options. In case you haven't noticed, you come off as being pretty bitter and negative. If it were me, I'd probably go find something else that more rewarding and enjoyable, as it'll drastically improve your outlook on life. Being hopeful and optimistic is SO much more fun.

      But hey, best of luck with whatever you do.

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    85. Re:Government Inefficiancy by mulhollandj · · Score: 1

      My definitions are according to what James Madison meant. Modern defintions have merged the two terms. Political and major media leaders have pushed the idea that they are the same. It is not hard for leaders to scare and manipulate people into giving up their rights under a democracy and hence those in charge create an oligarchy just like every other form of government besides a republic.

    86. Re:Government Inefficiancy by iluvcapra · · Score: 1
      wiki

      all they have to do is download a copy of mediawiki, add some custom templates for "persons of interest" and "known criminals", and then they can rename it Okhrana.

      I can't find the citation, I read it originally in Nabokov i think, but the Okhrana at the turn of the century had what could be called the first wiki. They had index cards about the size of a sheet of A4, one per person. On the card they would have the person's name in the center, and then branching out would be lines to other names, and these would branch out to others on that card if they were relevant to the subject. The lines were color coded; red would be "politically subversive relationship" or green would be "casual relationship" etc. Every time they observed a relationship between 2 people, they'd note it on the cards and look for connections.

      Clever and monstrous.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    87. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Then you're fucked right out of the gate. Sounds to me like it's pretty silly to stick around in that environment and constantly be involved with projects that do nothing but fail, unless you have no other options.

      That's the point I'm at, no other options- I'd rather succeed at raising a kid with CP to be a useful human being than worry about whether projects succeed or fail. I got bitter after 2001- when I realized what was happening in the software industry was the shortsightedness that your company seems to have actually succeeded in fighting (my last private industry manager, in my exit interview, claimed that my project had failed because nobody had money to buy it after 9-11-2001....as if the recession was MY fault).

      It was at that point I gave up on capitalism- and learned to just survive.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    88. Re:Government Inefficiancy by jafac · · Score: 1

      Wow.

      Slashdot has really come a long way in the past 10 years.

      I remember back in 1996 - the Cult of the Free-Market Fairy was going strong, and talk like what was in your post was met with accusations of Stalinism.

      And now - Score 5: Insightful.

      Good to see.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    89. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly, I'm surprised the article seems to put the CIO taking some kind of high ground when perhaps he should be taking a fall.

    90. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Nutria · · Score: 1
      is that instead of getting a shrink wrapped document management app that works (i.e. Mambo, DocuShare, DB2 Document Manager), and customizing the working app, the FBI in all of its infinite wisdom decided to contract with Science Applications International Corp. (SAIC) to write one from scratch.

      Maybe the FBI's document management needs are sufficiently complex-specialized-arcane that modifying a shrink-wrapped system would be just as bad or worse (from a maintainability-extenability POV) that writing from scratch?

      I certainly would not be surprised if that were the situation...

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    91. Re:Government Inefficiancy by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Because of an open-ended contract with few safeguards, SAIC reaped more than $100 million as the project became bigger and more complicated, even though its software never worked properly.

      I'm afraid there aren't enough people getting it...don't we have any decent programming technoids here????

      It is called a money transfer. Here's an exercise in either Logic 101, Journalism 101 or Research 101: obtain the personnel rosters of the people in the former World Trade Center Building 7 (their Emergency Ops Center, the other government agencies -- CIA, IRS, SEC, etc.) then compare them to the personnel roster of S.A.I.C. Notice any similarities????

      Oh...I know....it's just a "coincidence"....of course.....

    92. Re:Government Inefficiancy by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      In the past I have worked on successful government contracted mega-programming projects. But the difference was they were serious about it - this particular government (now properly designated as a neocon fascist regime) is only concerned with the transfer of wealth - in this case, taxpayers' monies to S.A.I.C. 'Nuff said.....

    93. Re:Government Inefficiancy by mulhollandj · · Score: 1

      I am speaking from personal experience. I moved to CT a while ago and tried to get a drivers license. I waitied in various line for over 3 hours (even the wrong one because the info booth told us the wrong line), paid my fee(which I never got back), and was then told I didn't have the right stuff to get it(the website was incorrect). The employees were very rude. It took my wife several hours to register her car(she was told the wrong thing to do several times). When we moved back to Utah it took her 10 minutes to get a drivers licencse and 30 minutes to register 2 cars. I got my citizenship and had to put up with INS for years. The virtual appointment thing is good now because you would have to go to SLC and wait an hour before it opened to get in that day. I also lost my naturalization certificate and applied for a new one. They cashed my check and I waited a year but nothing. I called and they had no clue what I was talking about. They had not record of my filing for a new certificate but they had cashed my check. They made me drive all the way to SLC ( 1 1/2 hr each way ) so I could talk to somebody. I even took my cashed check. They promised to call me but never did and after a few months the person at the national call center suggested I could either write a letter a pray for a response or go to SLC again. Finally, well after a year, the new certificate suddenly appeared in the mail. Government is inefficient because there is no direct accountability or competition. If I don't like Dell tech support I can buy an HP next time. If I go to KFC and the employees are rude then you can bet the corporate office wants to know and will do something about it. If not I can go somewhere else.

    94. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here's the rub: under the past 25 years of leadership of the small-government zealots, we managed to prevent government from making important investments - e.g.: roads (any idea how many bridges in this country haven't been maintained in decades, and what the long-term maintenance will cost on the vast numbers of roads we've built?), emergency planning, a healthy population, an educated workforce, etc.

      What you are describing is the problem, that people look to the government for these things. It is now the state's problem to make sure we're not a country full of fat asses? That problem should correct itself by those people dying off, but no we have state sponsored health care to keep these tubbies alive on my dime.

      I'll agree with you on the roads but that's not really small government's fault. A lot of our infrastructure was built in the 50's and, surprise, it all needs fixing at the same time. There's just not enough time or money to fix them all at once. Plus what are you going to tell the hundreds of thousands of people that use that roadway every day when it will be shut down for a year? Good luck trying to push that one through.

      I take it with emergency planning you're mainly talking about Katrina. I think that's a state and local issue -- who needs a bureaucrat 2000 miles away deciding what is good for an area that he's most likely never been in? The trouble with NO is that they kept on electing corrupt politicians that managed to dodge a bullet with a major hurricane till now.

    95. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nmos · · Score: 1

      Incredibly enough, the software world is still a world where experts don't really have their say. It's a bit like if I, as a car driver, would dictate how GM creates its next car because I am the one who buys it, despite the fact that I don't know a thing in mechanics and how to build an engine.

      Hmm, wasn't there a Simsons episode along those lines?

    96. Re:Government Inefficiancy by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Wouldn't that automatically make him overbudget"

      I don't think so. "Overbuget" can reasonabily mean one of either two things: Budgeted A, really costed when produced A+delta, or Budgeted as A, when it really costs A-delta.

      The previous poster said that by paying lot of money to his project manager their projects went on bugdet, within specs and deadlines. That means that he budgeted the project as A and it costs to the client A or less, so the first meaning for "overbudget" is not an issue. For the second one (it's budgeted A, it really costs A-delta) it has to be demonstrated that these same projects, or others alike, could be achieved with less. Being this thread about how big projects wreak havoc, this is a non-issue too, since that project leadership achive goals so being the only one to be compared with, there's no point in saying it could have costed less: projects with cheaper project managers crash, so that's the proper budget for an effective project leadership. (now, for the usual car-comparation): a car with four wheels is not overbudgeted when you compare it whit a car with only three wheels because of the fourth wheel; those with four wheels work as expected, three-wheeled do not.

      "So I guess you've found the way around it: Pick your consituents/customers carefully enough, and you won't have any significantly complex projects to worry about."

      I think you have a point here. If you want your projects to succeed, pick a client you can success with. As long as there are enough clients of such a kind for you company to go profitable, there's no problem with such a policy. Problem arises (on the client side) when you can get a project doomed to fail and still you can make as much or even more money out of them. But then, who's the fool? the contractor that takes a project doomed to fail because it will be able to make (big money*three) out of it, or the client that fools out himself _once and again_?

      "here's no way you could get away with paying your high-priced project manager like that if you had any beancounter non-technical oversight at all"

      That's not the client problem but the contractor's one. He is the contractor, so there's no problem about who much he does pay to their project managers. It's the overall bill that counts.

      "some would say your way is actualy LESS efficient"

      That's true if clients allow their contractos to rise their benefit margins by accepting shit from them. Quite a common situation. But if the rest of the company also works the "proper way", and I'm speaking "proper marketing" here, it's just a matter of time potential clients will know the this company delivers "on time, on specs, on budget" while competitors won't. Proper marketing should have an easy day to convince prospective clients they allow a better deal by "undisclosing" hidden costs due to overtime, overbudget, undespec'ing if they go to their competitors. Thus, his way is quite efficient since it makes proper benefit and allows better company resilience over time.

    97. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It was at that point I gave up on capitalism- and learned to just survive."

      Don't fool yourself: that *is* capitalism.

    98. Re:Government Inefficiancy by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 2, Funny

      under the past 25 years of leadership of the small-government zealots


      What country are you referring to again, and who are these small government zealots that have been leading it for the past 25 years?

    99. Re:Government Inefficiancy by wyohman · · Score: 1

      Because we know this NEVER happens with businesses who use their own resources.

    100. Re:Government Inefficiancy by SuhlScroll · · Score: 1

      It really sounds as though the FBI needs a real IT department of their own, not the isolated geeks helping out Mulder and Scully.

      It's actually quite worse than that; the average FBI agent/employee doesn't even know how to use a computer, let alone hire qualified people for an IT department.

      And, if some "CIO" type waddles in and recommends another outsourcing, maybe the sidearm arguement should be used.

      What's infinitely more powerful in the government alphabet agency world than a sidearm is someone's pay grade. The more time you spend with the tip of your nose stuck squarely in your boss's rectum, the more likely you are to move quickly up the ladder. Technical expertise is not a requirement.

      Outsource, and this is what you get.

      The government doesn't have a choice; if you think the commercial world pays poorly, try working for the government as a govie. Nobody who's any good would work for the government, they couldn't afford to live in D.C.

      Really, sensitive government data projects like this one should never be outsourced, if only for national security reasons.

      Actually there are government alphabet agencies with much higher clearance requirements than the FBI who are looking to "outsource" their software development. They think by doing so they can decrease the cost of the development itself. What they don't realize is that they could attract talented developers for what they pay per hour for a developer if they'd streamline their contract vehicles they use to get the labor in-house. Too much of what they pay goes in the pockets of layers of contracting companies rather than the developers' pockets. They pay $200/hr for a J2EE developer, and by the time all the hands in the queue get greased the guy being hired gets $40-60/hr of that $200. They come in, work for awhile, then quit for something better. Most of the developers have less than 2 years of experience, and then the govt. wonders why 90% of their software projects fail. D'Uh!!

      By the way, the VCF project failed because the FBI was defrauded by people SAIC (who was the prime on the software development part of the contract) brought in to "lead" the project. The people the FBI sent in to "manage" it were too technically incompetent to know what was going on before it was too late.

    101. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Hellburner · · Score: 1

      I've got two words for you, tough guy:

      Fuckin' a.

    102. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A system where hicks and backwater types are hired into government employment is bound to fail.

      Believe me, I live in the DC area, and I work downtown near many federal agencies. The people they hire are truly borderline retarded or incompetent. They can barely operate most modern conveniences, like doors, sidewalks, elevators, cars -- they all appear to have quite a bit of difficulty mastering these basic mechanical objects.

      If you put a few slick MBA types in a room with a few toothless west virginians, and the west virginians have a blank check, how much do you think that check will end up getting written for? And how much do you think the west virginians would want in return?

      This is what is going on in the Government. Only the hillbillies running the show are getting kickbacks, they KNOW they're pilfering.

    103. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      There's a third way:

      I don't think so. "Overbuget" can reasonabily mean one of either two things: Budgeted A, really costed when produced A+delta, or Budgeted as A, when it really costs A-delta.

      The third way, especially when you work in government, is that it gets the proposed Budget A, you do the work and it really costs A-Delta, but the Tax Activists in the meantime came in and cut your revenue, which means your real budget is B, and B
      In neither case will the project be judged to be "under budget". And in neither case will the budget be successfull. It has simply been my bad luck to run into this phenomenon every place I've worked in a 15 year career, because money is a really stupid way to judge the success or failure of technology projects.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    104. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Well, some people seem to be better at surviving than I am then.....

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    105. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Anti-government conservatism is a bankrupt ideology - it's nice to kick the government for it's failures real and perceived, but when push comes to shove, it offers no real alternative for building the public underpinnings of our economy and our lives

      The radical right propaganda of "blame the government for every problem" is having other negative long term effects. It is destroying the basic support that citizens have for the government.

      For example, something like 1/3 of the people in the US believe that the US government was involved in a vast conspiracy before 9/11. I heard that Tucker Carlson was ragging aobut this on his show, horrified that so many people didn't trust their leaders. He, and the other right wing propagandists, shouldn't be supprised. When you tell people that the government is always bad and wrong, and that those in charge are against the people, at some point they will start believing you. After that, why should they trust anyone in charge?

      This is also related to our low voter turn out. Why vote when the government is terrible and useless? That's the message the radical right sends to the general population, while they tell their supporters to "vote early and vote often". If few people vote, what kind of democracy do we have, and how can a democracy work if it is unconnected to the public?

      Finally, what happens in the long term? I have one very negative answer: there is no reason for the US to exist as a country. We are not like England or France or China or Japan. All these countries exist beyond their current governments, because of shared language, culture and history. They have continued for thousands of years. The US exists because people belive in it now. If they stop believing, it will stop existing. I think that if the current alienation of citizens continues, there will be no US in 50 years. Don't pretend it can't happpen. The US is a very young country, and it might not last.

    106. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nasch · · Score: 1
      My definitions are according to what James Madison meant.
      Which is what, exactly?
    107. Re:Government Inefficiancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Milton Friedman once said that we should be thankful for government ineficiency. If not for it, we'd all be slaves by now.
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=68135292 39937418232&q=milton+friedman

    108. Re:Government Inefficiancy by James_Duncan8181 · · Score: 1

      Just to clear this up:

      In this context, a republic refers to a representative democracy. This is where you get to vote for your representative (Representative, as the hint in the name shows), who then votes on the issues on your behalf. Your input ends at the selection of the politician. The length of their term means they have some latitude to ignore current popular view, but are therefore less responsive to the democratic viewpoint.

      A true democracy is one where you vote directly on the issue. A traditional criticism of this is that it makes policy decisions more arbitrary, and more open to save-the-children type manipulation. If you think post 911 USA is bad, imagine if people had been asked to vote on legislation at that point. It is however the most representative govt, with decisions being functionally equal to opinion polls.

      Really, for most people this comes down to if you truly trust the People to make the best choice. The primary thing that stopped large countries being true democracies is that communication was sufficiently slow that an election was a large endeavor. There has never been a true modern democracy, and I think it would be an interesting thing to watch. A lot less company dominated as a process, I'd think.

      Does that help?

      --
      "To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
    109. Re:Government Inefficiancy by nasch · · Score: 1
      Does that help?
      Not really. I appreciate the effort, but what I was after was not *some definition* for the terms, which I can find for myself, but which definitions this particular person is using. They may very well be the ones you stated, but then again they may not, since there are multiple definitions for the terms "democracy" and "republic". However, I think we will not hear from him again on this topic.
    110. Re:Government Inefficiancy by 6ULDV8 · · Score: 1

      Well, yes... it is SOMEONE'S money. In the interest of fairness, they should have opened this project to competetive bids minus the usual government red tape.

      I could have personally delivered a non-working product in 6 months or less for 12 - 17 million. Roughly 10% or less the contracted amount. Additionally, I could have delivered the failed project ahead of schedule so that the bureaucracy could get back to not using the new method MUCH quicker. Truthful disclosure would have allowed the FBI to virtually eliminate the test phase since I would know immediately that it would not work.

      I would invest that 12 - 17 million fee in not growing more corn or cotton and if there was any left over, I might not raise some cattle. The gained subsidies would make for a nice retirement for me while saving the taxpayer over 90% of the current bill.

      I'm a team player.

      --
      Pull my finger for my public key.
    111. Re:Government Inefficiancy by rblum · · Score: 1
      work in State Government- and we can't even fill the positions we have because the beancounters won't let us pay industry standard wages. When I worked in private industry, the story was the same- except it was the shareholders.


      Weird. Neither government nor private industry pay industry standard wages - what exactly makes them standard wages, then, except wishful thinking?
  3. Most IT Projects Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason seems quite obvious to me: a shortage of programmers who can get the job done right.

    1. Re:Most IT Projects Fail by cluckshot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would like to discuss this in some detail. Congress Critters are you listening?

      The issue here is simple and almost sinfully so. If you are to get a job working for the Government, it doesn't matter which agency, you have to provide your quailification credentials. We see them on looking for a job as a list of qualifications. This applies to contractors who supply the government as wee. This becomes a list that looks like a laundry list of the history of the agency. We programmer types will know these very well. The list goes like this:

      Programmer with 15+ years Experience in Matlab.

      Must have 15+ years in Military Logistics with US Army SMDC

      and the list goes on. There are only two problems with this listing. Both of these cannot exist. The only person who can qualify with these "pseudo credentials" is somebody who has just retired from the army and frankly even then it is a fiction. The result is that old unqualifed failure that was just booted out of the ranks for incompetence is now the only person qualified for duty.

      In the FBI this is worse not better. The results are that the FBI remains unable to respond because it cannot recruit new blood to infuse it. The situation in contracts is even worse since the bureaucrats in the Government reserve the right to pick and choose the people who will work with them on contract. The contractor doesn't get to pick his people! This makes absolutely sure that in the post 9/11/2001 world only those who failed us before 9/11/2001 can ever be "Qualified" to do any work. They are the "Experts" we hire to do our work. The resulting situation is from top to bottom the agency fails ever worse and costs ever more.

      The solution is pretty simple. There needs to be a wholesale cutting from the top of the dead wood of the agencies. We need to fire about 99% of the people in management and start at the bottom rebuilding. The GS system is built the reverse of this. Bumping needs eliminated. GS people need to have manditory retirement at set ages and terms of service. The legislative support of contractors needs changed towards performance controls and away from managing personnel of contractors. Frankly the US agencies excepting where sensative data or methods are involved should have no influence over hiring of contractors. Even then it should only be security issues and not the qualifications at issue. Contractor companies should have to be performing based on results and paid accordingly.

      Had the FBI contract had a penalty of $250,000 per day for failure to perform the results would be in hand and done now. This by the way is typical contracting rules in the civilian arena. I have worked on such civilian contract rules for years. It gets work done and on time.

      As it sits it is typical for contracts to demand 10 years experience in .net. (Programmers will have to laugh their heads off on this one. .Net isn't that old itself)

      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
    2. Re:Most IT Projects Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Programmer with 15+ years Experience in Matlab.
      Must have 15+ years in Military Logistics with US Army SMDC

      You misunderstand: allow me to translate:

      Programmer must be William T. Smartley, SSN 344-3202323, AFIS fingerprints set matching #32432423409rt456

      They want a particular person. That's why the specificity. You need not apply.

    3. Re:Most IT Projects Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Congress Critters are you listening?
      No, but their sorry. Their tubes were full at the time of your posting.
  4. Paranoia! by Enoxice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I'd prefer the FBI not go paperless. Because (a) paper trails are nice in investigations and such (y'know, when the FBI finally goes up against the Supreme Court) and (b) stuff that doesn't have a hardcopy tends to get lost more often than physical objects...especially embarassing things...especially by government agencies.

    Yes. I'm slightly paranoid.

    --
    Anyone else think the comments just weren't rendering right before they turned off ABP and saw ads?
    1. Re:Paranoia! by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

      They spend their $170 million wiser. Why upgrade the computers?
      Leave the paper trail, and instead build robots to sort and manage the paper trail!

    2. Re:Paranoia! by acroyear · · Score: 3, Informative

      y'know, when the FBI finally goes up against the Supreme Court

      Actually, all the unconstitutional crap is being done by the NSA. The FBI got warrents (over 120) through the FISA courts for every single aspect of the British plane bombers investigation that they participated in.

      which goes to prove that the NSA warrentless program is utterly unnecessary to stopping terrorism.

      --
      "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
      -- Joe
    3. Re:Paranoia! by Enoxice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All the unconstitutional stuff that we know about is being done by the NSA.

      --
      Anyone else think the comments just weren't rendering right before they turned off ABP and saw ads?
    4. Re:Paranoia! by div_2n · · Score: 1

      As long as they do regular backups that are retained off-site, no problem. Actually, this should be required (if it isn't already) that regular backups for all government agencies are stored in multiple redundant highly secure bunker-type areas. It is easier to shred a few pieces of paper than to make many different copies of backups from multpile locations vanish.

    5. Re:Paranoia! by Gridpoet · · Score: 1
      Greg Gandolfo, who spent most of his 18-year FBI career investigating financial crimes and public corruption cases in Chicago, Little Rock and Los Angeles.
      what i dont understand is they have Gandolfo the Grey...cant he just magic them up a spiffy new system?
      --

      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      This is MY galaxy...go find your OWN!

    6. Re:Paranoia! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

      I'm just as paranoid, but the cynical devil's advocate part of me wonders if a paperless system would be all that different in practice from the magically disappearing hard copies they've always used.

    7. Re:Paranoia! by ID10T5 · · Score: 1
      ...stuff that doesn't have a hardcopy tends to get lost more often than physical objects...

      Well, I'm sure the FBI has many hardcopies of their ledgers floating around for review, approval, reconciliation, etc.

      Sure didn't keep them from losing $170 million...

    8. Re:Paranoia! by bean123456789 · · Score: 1

      paper trails are nice

      It's amazing how fast a paper trail can be lost, accidentally or on purpose... at least with a good computer system (emphasis on good) the data can be reproduced or a finger can be pointed at the person responsible for losing the data. Plus cross reference is a bitch with paper.

    9. Re:Paranoia! by computational+super · · Score: 3, Funny
      Personally, I'd prefer the FBI not go paperless.

      Everybody who has to use the bathroom at FBI headquarters agrees.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    10. Re:Paranoia! by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's really clever. Instead of creating a computer that lets people erase records with a keystroke, let's spend a gazillion dollars on a robot that lets people shred records with a keystroke!

    11. Re:Paranoia! by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      And if a FBI agent wants to find out whether the pattern of victims from the guy he's investigating is the same as a similar string of murders in another part of the country, why, gosh-darn-it, he should have to phone up 20 different departments and have three dozen documents faxed like it was 1982!

      Agents being able to look up information like that on some kind of database, that's just crazy-talk.

    12. Re:Paranoia! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This program is not used to investigate and prosecute people under the law. It is used to prevent terrorists from killing more people. There is a rather huge difference there. This is why conservatives say if you oppose warrantless wiretapping then you support terrorists. That is very literally what has happened. This judge has given terrorists their full support. They're not listening to you trying to set up your drug deal. They're not listening to you talk about how you molest you child. Even if they did hear those things they can't do anything about them. They're trying to save peoples lives and liberals are screaming for them to stop. It pisses me off beyond belief that so many liberals are fighting to help more people die from terrorists. You get pissed when civilians die while trying to kill terrorists but you could give a rats ass about the civilians that die from terrorists. Screw them, they don't count. Right?

      This is why liberals get ignored and are viewed as utterly and completely out of touch with reality. You refuse to do your own research and blindly listen to anyone willing to tell you things that reinforce your fantasies, regardless of how much truth is in them.

    13. Re:Paranoia! by acroyear · · Score: 1

      oh, so as long as I'm not actually worried about the requirements of due process (5th amendment) then I can tell the 4th amendment (and the other 9, and for that matter the entire concept of consitutional checks and balances) to fuck off?

      sounds logical. no, really.

      Even if they did hear those things they can't do anything about them.

      Yes, they could and they will. They will turn that info over as a "tip" (non-admissable for prosecution but admissable for acquiring a warrent) to some other division and THEY will get the warrent and nab you for something they never would have had immenent discovery for, and thus the case would be thrown out anyways but not after TON of money was wasted on both sides.

      --
      "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
      -- Joe
    14. Re:Paranoia! by RollingThunder · · Score: 1

      Why do you hate America^Wbidets?

    15. Re:Paranoia! by Phat_Tony · · Score: 1

      I'm slightly paranoid too, but if the system's designed "right," then I'm still a fan of the electronic documentation.

      Electronic documents can be backed up in many places automatically. The system can be designed so that they users can't permanently delete anything (just use a versioning system for modifications.) It can be designed to give some people access to documents who can not modify of delete them, or can only modify certain fields, which is extremely difficult and cumbersome to even attempt with paper copies, where generally if you can access it at all, you could lose it or change it. An electronic system can keep track of who added each piece of information to a document and when they did it. Prior versions of documents can be maintained. When it comes to accountability, a properly designed electronic system trumps a physical paper system in every way. You can't just steal, lose, modify, backdate, forge, etc. Furthermore, you can't permanently lose thousands of critical documents in a fire or a flood if they're backed up securely in off-site locations.

      Yes, there's such a thing as hacking, but I think that, for a particularly well designed system, it's overall going to keep a much better information trail than paper.

      Not to mention it could radically improve their ability to fight crime.

      --
      Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
    16. Re:Paranoia! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, darn good for getting the NSA to collect dirt on your political foes ;-)

    17. Re:Paranoia! by kimvette · · Score: 1
      This program is not used to investigate and prosecute people under the law. It is used to prevent terrorists from killing more people. There is a rather huge difference there.


      I'd rather enable terrorists while retaining my liberties than relinquish my liberties to Uncle Sam under the guise of protecting liberties.
      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    18. Re:Paranoia! by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      It's only a matter of time before someone claims that the Founding Fathers(TM) supported the terrorists.

      That grinding sound you hear is the cognitive dissonance in the brains of those who idolise the Founding Fathers(TM) and who bought into the terrorism panic.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  5. Some of the Shortcomings by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

    it remained riddled with shortcomings:
    Agents would not be able to take copies of their cases into the field for reference.
    The program lacked common features, such as bookmarking or histories, that would help agents navigate through millions of files.
    The system could not properly sort data.
    Most important, the FBI planned to launch the new software all at once, with minimal testing beforehand. Doing so, the NRC team concluded, could cause "mission-disruptive failures" if the software did not work, because the FBI had no backup plan.


    Sounds like they had CS101 students writing this. No bookmarking or history? No sorting? Sad.

    1. Re:Some of the Shortcomings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the typical results of an offshored product.. and this was produced by Americans?

    2. Re:Some of the Shortcomings by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

      You could be correct in a sense. America isn't necessarily full of Americans anymore.

    3. Re:Some of the Shortcomings by bangenge · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but I work as a programmer that does a lot of offshore stuff for japanese companies. we do quite a chunk of japanese and philippine government projects (admittedly, not as big as the FBI's), and while we don't always see our projects in action, we do get word on how it works, and so far, we haven't gotten any bad press on the completed ones. but there are some government projects that end up shelled. why? here are some reasons:

      1. government officials A, B, and sometimes C has a problem with not getting his share of the profits.
      2. the current system is flawed but would take a massive hit on the re-learning of the new system. near-sightedly, they eventually think it's better not to replace the system.
      3. lots of red tape, lots of people trying to get involved and gain credit *might be redundant to 1*
      4. too many changes being asked at a too fast a pace. (one common complaint against japanese clients)
      5. features that were deemed feasible during design were eventually too much during programming and eventually dropped/dumbed down.

      there are a lot of other reasons, and i don't have time to list them all, and i can only say things based on my experience. this is the government we're talking about, not a corporation that needs things working ASAP. what they've been doing is something that they have been doing for the past [insert guess] years and it's worked. for them to find a system that is deemed a worthy successor, it has to do everything better, faster and easier by a huge margin. unfortunately, they do it on taxpayer's money. so sad.

      --
      . o O ( TwO hEaDs ArE mOrE tHaN oNe... )
    4. Re:Some of the Shortcomings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an engineer who has had to deal with offshored products, I can definitely say that you are more likely to have far more problems with offshored programming. In the end, it may cost marginally less, but you end up paying the cost with customer headaches, support nightmares, and what not.

      No thanks.

  6. Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'

    Can I get the icon in 'cornflower blue'?

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by magixman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That quote was just too funny. In any huge huge huge project the state of play a month before is usually going through the thousands of trouble reports, deciding which features you will turn off so you can ge the release out, figuring out work arounds for the rest of them, discovering that the analysis was flawed on some functions and of course by now you ditched many other features because the analysis was not done at all. And yes you change a few icon colors to keep key users happy and get your sign-off. This is for a successful 1.0 implementation.

    2. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by xtracto · · Score: 1

      'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"

      Haha, this guy does not have a clue of what Softwar Engineering is about. Making things pretty is what you do for *the first* preview of your product, that is what you will show to your clients, the pretty screens with pretty buttons that will do things, of course neither the buttons nor the screen do anything more than get their attention and showcase void promises that you will try to fulfill a month before delivery.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    3. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting
      That is so not funny. I worked for a little CLEC headquartered in Las Vegas, and somehow ended up being picked to manage the trouble ticket system. So, I fly out to Vegas to meet the people who will be using the system and the consultant we'd hired to install it.

      To put it bluntly, the guy in charge of the NOC was (is?) an incompetent jackass. He'd used the same trouble ticket system at his last job and hated it - not because it was bad, but because the admins at his old company had no idea how to run the thing. Long story short, he had one absolute demand before he'd let it be used in "his" NOC: the consultant had to change the window background color from green to blue, because green reminded him of the last installation.

      He was serious.

      And he actually scheduled a formal compliance test where he would run through the system to make sure he didn't see green anywhere, and informed the consultant and me that if he did, he was rejecting it forever. I was amazed to find that he actually had management backing on this; it's apparently difficult to find managers with obsolete product knowledge, or something like that. So, the company spend a fair number of kilodollars to make the software blue (to the endless delight of the consultant, who drove a nice Corvette and took me to good expense account dinners - which are the best kind!).

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    4. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Quick fix: Kill the green signal coming out of the video card.

      There. I would have saved y'all millions. geez.

    5. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell. Are you crazy. Sounds like you are using discredited waterfull cycle were problems are only revealed near the end of development. You can prevent a lot of problems by using an iterative development cycle.

    6. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by PylonHead · · Score: 1

      This was pretty much what I was thinking. Getting a 1.0 version out the door is usually crazy up till the last moment. Hell, we go through hundreds of bug tracking issues (and fix them) in the last week of deploying a medium sized web site. I couldn't believe they were worried about a thousand requests on a major institution wide system.

      I want to know which software project out there spends the last month changing icon colors.

      --
      # (/.);;
      - : float -> float -> float =
    7. Re:Oblig. 'Fight Club' quote: by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      You wish. Since we had a consultant involved, and the powers-that-be wanted everything to be all enterprisey, we would have had to order custom-built graphics cards with only two color channels.

      Unfortunately, I think they might have gone for that.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  7. Government Contract$ by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Informative
    But the problems were not the FBI's alone. Because of an open-ended contract with few safeguards, SAIC reaped more than $100 million as the project became bigger and more complicated, even though its software never worked properly. The company continued to meet the bureau's requests, accepting payments despite clear signs that the FBI's approach to the project was badly flawed, according to people who were involved in the project or later reviewed it for the government.

    And that is how you get rich doing work for the government. The government agency comes up with a half-assed plan, you put in a low bid, they accept and start handing you checks, and you make things look pretty, all the while hiding the flaws. In then end, you've become rich, the goverment runs a deficit, and the American taxpayer foots the bill.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:Government Contract$ by LordKazan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      that's why government contractors that do this kinda shit (fail to deliver product) should be required to return all the money to the government, and if they don't they can rot in jail and the government will SEIZE their assets

      --
      If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
    2. Re:Government Contract$ by $1uck · · Score: 1

      As someone who's seen this first hand, you should be modded to +6 and beyond.

    3. Re:Government Contract$ by mgblst · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, I think we all feel that way after reading this story. But the error could also lie with the Agency. If they are constantly asking for changes and new additions, what can the programmers do.

      And this would make it very difficult to get companies to do government contracts in the future.

      Perhaps they should have taken in past history as well as cheap price, when deciding on contractors.

    4. Re:Government Contract$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence the name for most government contract agencies: Beltway Bandits.

    5. Re:Government Contract$ by grassy_knoll · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And that is how you get rich doing work for the government. The government agency comes up with a half-assed plan, you put in a low bid, they accept and start handing you checks, and you make things look pretty, all the while hiding the flaws. In then end, you've become rich, the goverment runs a deficit, and the American taxpayer foots the bill.


      You seem to have left out a step: The government agency changes the requirements after the bid is awarded, usually in the user interface. If you're a smart bidder, your low bid was only to cover the original specification... and any modifications are extra.

      This might be a case of a contractor sucking at the government teat, but lets not forget that clueless PHBs and design by comittee can also run up the cost of a project without producing results.
    6. Re:Government Contract$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely correct.. I was shocked to see this stuff first-hand at a company I worked for (and quickly left after seeing this).

      - The contractor is supposedly working as a government representative/employee, but end up more aligned with the vendor, because the vendor fills in the blanks for all the stuff the contractor doesn't understand.

      - The gov't agency's half assed plan has the vendor's fingerprints all over it (similar to how lobbyists write legislation, the vendor is often spec'ing out the project). Not surprisingly, the project plan then doesn't really reflect what the obvious requirements are, but more reflects the vendor's product roadmap.

      - There is almost no due diligence on whether the vendor can meet their claims, or review to see if the project still meets the original requirements. Just endless meetings where the gov't people just nod along and agree to all the stuff they don't understand.

      I was appalled at the incompetency of the government structure (in this case, it was for IT security). I was also appalled at the sense of entitlement by the guys who had been doing gov't sales for decades. They basically thought that they were entitled to as much gov't money as they could get their hands on, with no fears of overcomitting, or accountability in the case of failure. So, they were promising the moon when the product was at Alpha stage, with only the most basic features built.

    7. Re:Government Contract$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like 2/3 of the DOT COMs I worked for in the 90s!

      VP, "We are burning a million a month, that is pretty good I think." at a company of less than 30 people.

      Ahhh, those were the days....

      sniff

    8. Re:Government Contract$ by forand · · Score: 1

      Fortunatly for the contractors they have already taken care of your suggestion by making it manditory for the government to choose the LOWEST bid. The people making all the money here take a small portion of that and spend it on lobbyists to change the laws making it easier for them to screw over the government.

    9. Re:Government Contract$ by ajs · · Score: 1

      That's not really how it works most of the time.

      Typically, such work is farmed out in small chunks with specific milestones that are measurable.

      That there was one prime on the whole FBI system seems to me to be a fatal flaw, and I have to wonder if this project was ever expected to bear fruit, or if it was just a none-too-subtle attempt to point out what some administrator considered to be a broken process or foolish expectations.

    10. Re:Government Contract$ by The_REAL_DZA · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry, this is Slashdot; you must submit your proposal for achieving fame and fortune in the following form:

      1. ____{your proposal here}___
      2. ???
      3. Profit!
      --


      This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
    11. Re:Government Contract$ by gutnor · · Score: 1

      I don't know in the US. But in some countries of Europe most companies don't want to work for the government. And the one that want generally bill the government *much* more than any other of their client. They also signed clause like they don't take any responsability if they are beyond schedule dates, ...

      The reason is simple. It is very difficult to get paid. It takes *years* after the project has been started to actually get the money the State owns you. Government has driven a lot of little businesses to bankruptcy. Also often key positions are political which means that all the move doesn't follow a project plan or anything but a political agenda. You project ( and therefore payment ) can be frozen forever. ( By forever, I mean a 6 month development project can be frozen after 5 months of development for 4/6/8 years before being restarted depending on elections schedule )

    12. Re:Government Contract$ by vmcto · · Score: 1

      Display some backbone?

      Say no?

      Claim it isn't feasible?

      At the end of the day if the coders say it can't be done, who is going to prove them wrong?

      Eager beaver pushovers that "want to make the client happy" are the root cause of many project failures. Well how happy is the client now?

    13. Re:Government Contract$ by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "...all the while hiding the flaws."

      Actually, this is unnecessary. I pointed out a implementation killing flaw in a K.C. Bendix Marine Corp database. The captain who designed it incorrectly simply didn't want to hear it.

      I simply sent my memos, kept records and made a functioning shell around it. It never worked and I got paid for doing what I could. You can't make people change the design for a trivial detail like it won't work.

    14. Re:Government Contract$ by bean123456789 · · Score: 1

      should be required to return all the money

      Agreed, the contractor totally took advantage of the situation that the FBI didn't know how to build/design a proper system but also failed to point that fact out to them. This is complete negligence and they should be held accountable for the money, it is pretty much robbery at this point.

    15. Re:Government Contract$ by KenSeymour · · Score: 1

      They don't have to return the money if they can show that the IT folks on the government side screwed up as much or more than they did.

      Usually that isn't very hard. If the FBI had a strong IT department, they would have done it in house.

      The background on this project was that the contract was let and specifications were written before 9/11. After 9/11,
      the system they relized they needed was radically different from what was specified. Rather than tell the government
      "we need a change order, a lot more money, and a lot more time to analyze the new requirements", SAIC (the contractor)
      decided to say "we can do it under the existing contract."

      I suspect the SAIC folks were motivated by a desire to help the FBI protect the US from terrorism and put that protection
      in place on a very aggressive schedule. What they should have realized was that it couldn't be done by anybody (in that amount of time).

      I worked at SAIC years ago and I can say that they have very good software development processes. But when it is
      an emergency, people all too often through the process out the window. Many SAIC folks have defense or military backgrounds
      and are strongly motivated to work towards keeping the US strong and free, not by milking the government for every
      dollar they can.

      There was a detailed discussion of the multiple causes of the failure in IEEE Spectrum (I don't remember which issue).
      But you won't find the details or the nuances here on /., just "Oh here is another failed government project."

      --
      "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
    16. Re:Government Contract$ by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      And if you're a really smart bidder, you tender to do what they initially specify for $5, then charge a million $ per change.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    17. Re:Government Contract$ by teal_ · · Score: 1

      Instead of hiring contracting firms to do it all behind the scenes, with a layer of bureaucrats between the programmers and the customer, why don't government agencies simply assemble their own teams of programmers with full-time jobs? It'd cost a helluvalot less, that's for sure, and you'd have tighter control too. They could just poach some project managers, systems analysts, and developers from top software companies, offering them market wages and benefits. I hate big contract firms with no transparency or accountability. The govt should sue the companies out of business. Those companies tend to have old dinosaurs more concerned with keeping their jobs than doing good work. Get some brilliant fresh grads from top schools too. Bah.

    18. Re:Government Contract$ by climbing · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have some experience in Government acquisition management and some of these /. rants (when temperred) are TRUE:
        - some contractors can bid low and get well on mods.
        - some large programs are constantly overrun.

      And sure you can say this or that should be outsourced and the people managing these programs need to be smarter, but here are the real problems IMHO:
        - the requirements generation and acqusition processes are BROKEN. It takes literaly years to document and approve the need, the capability, performance parameters, etc until you are eventually allowed to let a contract. the buerocracy pendulum is currently pegged. it's just too slow.
        - the user reps often end up documenting "solutions" instead of "requirements" (e.g. i want a U P-38 I saw at a trade show instead of I want a handheld unit with these constraints capable of...). or worse *sigh* a congressmen sets aside money in your agency's budget for his/her favorite company irregardless of agency need. that's always fun.
        - the financial management processes are BROKEN. The budget is on a 4 year (new starts) / 2 year (tweaks) cycle. Right now you are setting the final budget for FY2010/08. more importantly, there are no incentives for the purchasing command to save money. In fact there can be penalties. E.g. 10M per year program. You get crafty and get it all done for 8M + 1M incentive bonus = 9M in year one. It will be incredibly difficult to avoid having your budget cut at the miodyear or year end reviews because you will be way behind in your "obligation and expenditure benchmarks." Expect at least a $1M recurring cut per year thereafter. The system incentivizes full or over-spending; not savings.

      Reality check:
        - there are some very hard working people in the government... swimming upstream. the succeess stories rarely make the headlines. here's one. we put together a 5 year global telecom contract for an agency that saved 10%-20% per year and brought the system availability from ~90% with many single points fo failure to 99% with prioritized redundant failover. um, well no... it wasn't at the FBI.

    19. Re:Government Contract$ by nasch · · Score: 1
      And this would make it very difficult to get companies to do government contracts in the future.
      I think it would be more likely to lead to realistic bids and a commitment to do the job right. And the bids would be coming from more qualified contractors. JMO.
  8. Maybe it's just me, but... by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wouldn't it make sense to go for a more basic application as a first run, to at least provide a unified collaborative work environment, and use the working experience therein to define a more strategic, long term technology plan for the FBI? As I understand it, today's world involves many separate stores of information, electronic and not. Simply bringing those together in the crudest of fashions could provide significant gains in a relatively short time frame.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Maybe it's just me, but... by Chunt620 · · Score: 1

      That is pretty heavy for a friday morning my friend.

    2. Re:Maybe it's just me, but... by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      You seem to forget were talking about the Government here.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  9. no suprise by Lumpy · · Score: 0

    As someone that had to deal with specalized vertical market software.......

    I say DUH!

    ALL vertical market software sucks big time. Hell I helped a client yesterday that has a bunch of salons with installing a new PC (we do automation but help the big clients on the side) and their scheduling software is a giant piece of crap they pay $1000.00 per station for. At the dentist I always am amazed they fight witht he hideous crap for software they have.

    FBI software? it has to be a giant pile of fecies... just because that is how this type of software is.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:no suprise by Rick+Genter · · Score: 1

      Amen to that.

      I used to do IT work on the side for six Curves gyms. They use a package called GoFigure that is the worst piece of total shit that I've ever had the displeasure to work with. It's a Microsoft Access application; until about a year and a half ago, it required the 16-bit Access runtime. You had to be very careful about what other software you installed on the computer; it conflicted with Office big time.

      Later versions went to 32-bit, but would spontaneously corrupt the database. Then you'd have to send GoFigure your database and they would "recover" it. Of course, the database for a busy gym would be too big to send via e-mail, and if you zipped it there was a significant chance that someone's virus filter (usually the gym's ISP) would block it as potential malware. The whole experience just sucked wet dripping donkey dongs.

      At one point I threatened to write my own gym management package, but never had the time.

      --
      Don't underestimate the power of The Source
  10. Project management in outer space by j.leidner · · Score: 4, Insightful
    'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"

    'A month before delivery,' Professor Knuth said looking up through his spectacles 'you can start implementing it if your correctness proofs are complete.'"

    Ha! Welcome to the real world, guys.

  11. Well it's nice to know... by rpjs · · Score: 1

    That it's not just the British government that can't manage an IT project to save its life.

  12. Obligatory Chief Wiggum Quote by novus+ordo · · Score: 3, Funny

    "I'll just file this case in my Virtual Filing Cabinet"

    --
    "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    1. Re:Obligatory Chief Wiggum Quote by Bobosan · · Score: 1

      Guess AOL had the G-men beat by 10 years on the virtual filing cabinet...

  13. Sounds like the client was the primar one at fault by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Call me crazy, but it sounds like the FBI didn't know what it wanted and SAIC was too scared and proud to play contractor hardball with its client to get the job done. The FBI is legendary for its fractured leadership, fiefdoms (makes most agencies look like a single organism it's so bad) and crap like that.

  14. FBI Too Busy by faqmaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    What do you expect? They don't have time or resources for testing because all the agents are too busy listening in on my calls to my grandmother.

    --
    Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
    No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
    1. Re:FBI Too Busy by kalirion · · Score: 1

      No, you have it all wrong. The FBI would be reading the transcripts of the calls to your grandmother, provided to them by the NSA.

  15. Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They should have just started by picking a decent directory structure for the documents and then hooking up a decent search engine like the Google Appliance. Then the users could simply use web browsers instead of a weak, buggy, and expensive custom application.

    Non CS people who commission custom software development often have no clue how expensive their ego driven non-standard features can be.

    1. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am an accountant in a paperless office. The old stuff thats gets scanned in ends up just being massive images as PDF documents. Can you search those types of documents. Attaching metadata to the docs seems to be a common recomendation that never seems to work.

    2. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to the Google Search Appliance FAQ, it will index PDF. Of course, that'll only work where PDF is comprised of text documents instead of images.

    3. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by z0idberg · · Score: 1

      Because someone might release the searche history.

      Search queries sample:

      -Agent10085045-where is osama?
      -Agent10085045-have you seen osama?
      -Agent10085045-stop Al kayeda
      -Agent10085045-destroy Al kayada
      -Agent10085045-how to spell Al Kayada
      -Agent10085045-cancel AOL
      -Agent10085045-how to cancel AOL
      -Agent10085045-how to clear my search history
      -Agent10085045-clear search history
      -Agent10085045-clear goddammit!
      -Agent10085045-NSA jobsearch
      -Agent10085045-how to get a job at the NSA
      -Agent10085045-what does NSA stand for?
      -Agent10085045-what does FBI stand for?
      -Agent10085045-poop

    4. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats nice in thery, but the encryption requierments have to be met.

      Out of the box, they can't use the GSA.

      With that said however, I see no reason why the FBI couldn't just contact Google and pay them to add that level of required encryption and security levels to the GSA directly.
      As you said, why always re-invent the wheel when half of what you need is there?

      There are thousands of applications that half-way do what they want, I don't see why its difficult to just pay those companies, or open-source developers to just add the missing halfs.

    5. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by Kuciwalker · · Score: 0

      Of course, that'll only work where PDF is comprised of text documents instead of images. I'd like to see a search appliance that would work in that case.

    6. Re:Why not just hook it all up to a search engine? by claytongulick · · Score: 1

      You know, this was my first thought when I heard about the app. Google appliance would bring them light years toward where they need to be.

      Images would be simple to deal with, write a quick & dirty "image upload" application that would "upload" the image into the directory. What this application would actually do is collect a bunch of keyword from the user about the image, I.E. case number, date, etc... a full description of the image "Suspicious red haired busty female lurking in a dark alley behind the crime scene". It would take this information and create a basic HTML wrapper for the image containing the description and all the keywords as META tags and an A HREF to the image source. Voila! Instant imaging/document management solution. Then the agent need only google "Case XXXX suspicious females" and BOOM up comes the link to the image.

      Seems pretty simple to me. Sure, it may not meet all their requirements, but it would get them alot farther along than they are today, and could be implemented in a matter of months, not years.

      --
      Drinking habits can be dangerous. You can choke on the cloth and the nuns will wonder where their clothes are.
  16. ObSimpsons by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Funny
    The finger seems to be pointing at the FBI leadership, greedy contractor and bad software management.
    The owner of said finger, one N. Muntz, was quoted as saying "Ha-ha!"
  17. Re:Printable Version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you've been beaten out by another karma whore

  18. Perfect Solution for the FBI paperless office by flajann · · Score: 4, Funny
    I have the perfect solution for the FBI's IT woes.

    It's called WOM, or Write-Only Memory system. This system has near-infinite storage capacity, and can be implemented across the entire enterprise.

    Document retrival in the WOM? Not a problem! Just create imaginary documents! Isin't that the way it's done, anyway?

    Oh, and if you need a record expunged, not a problem! In fact, it requires almost no effort at all!

    Write-Only Memory Virtual Filing System. It was good enough for Nasa, it ought to be good enough for the FBI.

  19. Re:Stop whining you dumb fuck libertarian by uglydog · · Score: 1, Funny

    awwww.... you need a hug!

  20. Safety First by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Do you feel safer while we're more in debt, to China, than anyone was ever in debt before to anyone, while spending a third of a $TRILLION in Iraq, $BILLIONS on fake FBI upgrades that do nothing but enrich scam contractors, and the richest among us demand more tax breaks, like "estate tax" breaks after they're dead?

    WHERE'S OSAMA?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Safety First by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Look at it this way. If I owe you a trillion dollars, who has the bigger problem, me or you?

      Shame on anyone who continues to make loans to a deadbeat, anyway.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    2. Re:Safety First by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you make $12 TRILLION a year, then you have the bigger problem. If you need to borrow more next year, and the year after that, and I can afford to let you slide if you just give me more control of the world you dominate, then you have the bigger problem.

      The US is no deadbeat - it's doesn't fail to pay its debts. It's among the best investments ever in the world. And its collateral is by far the best to seize.

      Besides, China cares nothing for shame. Its mafia government cares only for power. Power that Bush has handed it in unprecedented amounts. In exchange for lots of Chinese bribes to Bush's Republican Party

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:Safety First by B5Fan · · Score: 1
      Do you feel safer while we're more in debt, to China, than anyone was ever in debt before to anyone, while spending a third of a $TRILLION in Iraq, $BILLIONS on fake FBI upgrades that do nothing but enrich scam contractors, and the richest among us demand more tax breaks, like "estate tax" breaks after they're dead?

      Maybe. 'Cos I don't live in the US. You guys can spend all the money you want on being paranoid. The way to feel safer is to make your government stop annoying people in other countries so much. Starting with the middle east.
      When the US economy starts to crash in another year or two I expect its expenditure on weapons to decrease. I hope other countries will then do enough to compensate in global policing.

      BTW IANAE (economist) but I think the $US is in trouble because it's less desirable worldwide. e.g. The EU now has the Euro, and you can now buy oil using other currencies. Just watch it against the Euro, gold, etc, and you'll see what I mean.
      --
      Borg:"Lawsuits are irrelevant. GPL3 is irrelevant. DRM is good. We understand security... Alert! MS are assimilating us!
    4. Re:Safety First by fishbowl · · Score: 1


      >The US is no deadbeat - it's doesn't fail to pay its debts.

      It is interesting to hear another point of view besides the "US is bankrupt" one.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    5. Re:Safety First by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "I hope other countries will then do enough to compensate in global policing."

      Uh, we've been waiting for that for quite a while.

    6. Re:Safety First by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

      Yes, but only through using the (digital) printing press. Come 2011 hyperinflation looks like a certainty but I can't find the link right now.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    7. Re:Safety First by kimvette · · Score: 1

      didn't China also bribe (your term) the Democrats as well? Both sides take bribes^H^H^H^H^H^Hcampaign contributions from anyone, and the smart money (if you're into bribing politicians) is to contribute to BOTH sides, so either way, in their mind and your mind, the winner owes you.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Safety First by BlueStraggler · · Score: 1

      WHERE'S OSAMA?

      Since you mention Osama and the FBI in the same breath, this link seems apropos: http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html

    9. Re:Safety First by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I don't know, what are you referring to? I remember Gore was accused of taking bribes because a California ("Chinese") buddhist temple donated to him. Can you cite some of these Democrat bribes, and compare them to the Abramoff network, which has already kicked out one Republican Speaker of the House (run him out of Congress), sent another Republican to the longest ever jail sentence for a Congressmember (the largest recorded bribe, too), and probably will send at least another half-dozen Republican Congressmembers to jail, even before these Chinese bribes come into play? This Republican bribery scheme robbed millions in Federal programs, got a casino boat owner executed by the Mafia in Florida...

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    10. Re:Safety First by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      George Bush: biggest war criminal since Mao Tse Tung.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  21. Security Advisors by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Funny

    "You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors."

    That's the FBI policy: they're part of Homeland Security, so their job is mainly to tells what color today is. Otherwise terrorists might have trouble knowing which days we're not checking everyone or paying closest attention.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Security Advisors by Gamma · · Score: 1

      FBI is under Department of Justice, not Homeland Security.

    2. Re:Security Advisors by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I guess they're just DHS wannabees, then.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  22. Sounds to me like... by ralphart · · Score: 1

    ...This turned into the typical "Boil the Ocean" project. Features kept being added and scope increased until there was no way it could be successful in a finite time/schedule.

  23. What world does this guy live in? by Chelloveck · · Score: 4, Insightful
    'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'

    Wow... I have never, ever seen a software product that wasn't working on QA bug reports right up to the minute the gold disc is burned. And afterwards, of course, working on all the pre-release bugs that had been classified as 'known issues'.

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    1. Re:What world does this guy live in? by bigpat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow... I have never, ever seen a software product that wasn't working on QA bug reports right up to the minute the gold disc is burned. And afterwards, of course, working on all the pre-release bugs that had been classified as 'known issues'.

      Seconded. Clearly this guy either doesn't know what he is talking about or is just playing politics (office and/or party). I've personally encountered bugs or (incomplete features) in past releases of Oracle. I don't recall the specifics of the feature I was trying to use, but it was a documented feature that should have been available and according to Oracle's own knowledge base the function should have worked a certain way, but only to dig a little deeper to find that it was just a stub function that hadn't actually been written yet. This was an enterprise product used by thousands of big businesses and it simply didn't do what they said it did.

      To say that you are just changing colors on a software product a month before delivery is a rediculous thing to say, and really this guy shouldn't be in his job if he actually believes what he said, vendors are working on bugs for years after delivery on anything as complex as this would need to be.

      Hell, even NASA even built in a way to update the software on the Mars landers, when they were on Mars. That isn't to say that this FBI software project has been well managed, well specified, or even well coded, but a certain amount of imperfection must be understood in any project management and design.

    2. Re:What world does this guy live in? by masnare · · Score: 0
      No shit Chet, no shit.


      Maybe a big part of the problem is that they have a technology chief who has (apparently) never really worked in technology, but just dreams about what it could be like if he did.

    3. Re:What world does this guy live in? by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      ***Wow... I have never, ever seen a software product that wasn't working on QA bug reports right up to the minute the gold disc is burned.***

      Dead On, Mate. A software project with three quarters of a million lines of code is surely going to have hundreds of open SPRs at the time of its release. If things are going well, most of them are going to be relatively unimportant. Still, You have to wonder if the FBI's CIO knows much about real software projects and how they work.

      I prowled around the Internet trying to find any sort of bio on Azmi. Here's what I came up with http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=5&sid=760419. His background isn't awful, but neither is it especially reassuring. There's nothing there that says to me that this isn't a guy with an expensive haircut and no proven technical or administrative ability. But he could also be fighting the good fight against heavy odds. No way to tell I think. At least he doesn't seem to be a political appointee.

      Nothing against Mr Azmi, but apparently if has been common knowledge that VCF was a fiasco since early 2005. See http://www.smh.com.au/news/Breaking/New-FBI-softwa re-may-be-unusable/2005/01/14/1105582686258.html I'm sure that the problems are not Azmi's fault. Given the timeline, I don't see how they could be. But he's had two and a half years to recognize that there is a problem and get the project back on track. I have to wonder if he is the right guy to try to fix this mess.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    4. Re:What world does this guy live in? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "To say that you are just changing colors on a software product a month before delivery is a rediculous thing to say, and really this guy shouldn't be in his job if he actually believes what he said, vendors are working on bugs for years after delivery on anything as complex as this would need to be."

      that is true for properly engineered software.

      WIll there be bugs after a release? almost certianly. But would should not have hundreds of open issues a month before release.

      Of course in a world where a clueless manager sets your deadline, then you will probably have hundreds of report bugs before the release, but that is an incorrect way to run a project.

      AS far as his examples of minor issues, those where probably just things he new the general public could understand.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:What world does this guy live in? by bigpat · · Score: 1

      But would should not have hundreds of open issues a month before release.

      It depends on the type of issues. Just knowing the total doesn't tell you anything. Knowing the severity, and how the severity is determined might start to give you the real picture.

      It certainly seems like the SAIC developed software suffered from some serious design flaws, sounds like the FBI would be just better off with a wiki type system for collaborative case files. Along with a good document repository with enterprise backups. The biggest not exactly off the shelf solution is the security model that would be needed to tie the system together in a coherant way with probably about 10 to 20 levels of security with a need to have user by user control over access to certain documents. But even that is pretty standard in any enterprise software, and is simply accomplished with a central database of user and group permissions.

      One real problem for this system was that it seems like they decided on a client server model, rather than a browser based application. That would have multiplied their rollout costs and reduced the talent pool as much of the industry has gone to a web application model for enterprise software.

      I know Lockheed has a lot of enterprise software experience, but I wonder if they will just make the same mistakes again given that there will be a strong inclination not to consider the SAIC system a prototype, but that will mean they might have a harder time learning from both the successes and failures.

  24. Lies! by lattyware · · Score: 1

    Ever the pecimist, I think it's probably just a cover-up, make a big PR thing about how it failed, and then let it run in the background.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  25. Project Managers by Epeeist · · Score: 4, Informative

    Spit.

    The trouble with project managers (and security people) is that they have a checklist mentality.

    PM: Have you done this as yet.

    You: No, there is no need for it

    PM: But I need to get it checked off on my plan

    You: It shouldn't be on the plan in the first place

    PM: But it is on the plan, so I need to get it checked off. When are you going to do it.

    And so on.

    1. Re:Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely this is a criticism of the person who made the plan, not the PM who is ensuring it is followed.

    2. Re:Project Managers by krbvroc1 · · Score: 1
      If you read the article, you will find that there was NOT a checklist mentality. It was actually the opposite. The FBI wasnt sure what they wanted and relied on a 'trial and error' mentality.

      I love how even in this case where the government completely and totally outsourced the software development to the private sector, there are tons of /. posts about the government incompetence and how they alone are responsible for this taxpayer fraud. The FBI was not the expert in software development. They hired a private sector company to provide these services and the company failed and overcharged. The company did not perform ethically.

    3. Re:Project Managers by Epeeist · · Score: 1

      Sorry you have been modded down.

      The answer is no in most cases. They follow a standard methodology (Prince 2 here in the UK is probably the most popular) which means they have to have certain things on their ticklist whether they are sensible or not. Another conversation:

      You: we want to give you access to some of the tables in our company's database

      Security guy: The information is confidential, so you will to encrypt it

      You: But the data is arriving in your company over a private wire, and never leaves the local LAN segment. The LAN is switched so nobody can sniff it.

      Security guy: If you can span the port that the data is coming in on then you could sniff it.

      You: But to do that you would need access to the management VLAN which is protected by ACLs, and anyway you can only get on to that VLAN in our premises.

      Security guy: But the data is confidential so you will have to encrypt it.

      And so on

    4. Re:Project Managers by jweller · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, I see you've met my former boss. She was even worse.

      her: have you completed X?

      me: not yet, but I have Y and Z completed and tested.

      her: but X is on the schedule to be complete today.

      me: It made more sense to do Y and Z first, X will be trivial now that Y and Z are complete.

      her: but X is on the schedule to be compete today. Y and Z are not scheduled to be done until next month. now we are behind schedule.

      honestly, I can't make this stuff up. She actually said that as I stood there in slack-jawed amazement.

    5. Re:Project Managers by secolactico · · Score: 1

      That looks like a communication problem. Does she usually gives you leeway to do this kind of change? If not, then you should have consulted before deciding to do Y and Z before X. Even if it makes more sense. Maybe there was an actual reason for X to be completed on a certain date (not just because that's how it was written on the schedule).

      Just my opinion.

      --
      No sig
    6. Re:Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really there IS a need for that kind of thinking - especially on complex projects. A quick (but vastly oversimplified) analogy might be:

      PM: And have you checked all of your car's fluids? Gas, oil, etc.?

      You: There's no need - it's electric!

      PM: *thinks a bit and flips through his notebook* Hmmm - what would be the functional equivalent then? *does more page flipping*

      You: The car runs on electrons - they come from the batteries *shrug*

      PM: Do the batteries require any maintenance?

      You: Oh, well they are lead acid - they use distilled water.

      PM: Have we checked the fluid level of the batteries then? And on this page here it also mentions brake fluid, transmission fluid and differential gear oil.

      You: The engines are inside the wheels so the there is no transmission or or differential. I also checked the brake fluid when I assembled the wheel assemblies.

      Ect. ..Not a perfect example, but that I think it illustrates where "checklist thinking" can show value.

    7. Re:Project Managers by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One company I worked for promoted the receptionist to be the project manager for my project (I was the lead developer - and no, they didn't promote me to dev lead from janitor.)

      The bad thing about this girl was that she didn't know shit about fuck. The only good thing was that she did realize how ignorant she was, so she didn't question anything I did - just tried to report it to her bosses. And she was good for fetching coffee and ordering stuff (and nice to look at).

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    8. Re:Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, she does know "shit about fuck": She's smart enough to know she doesn't know. And even better, she's smart enough to to leave you to it! What are you complaining about? I have a boss who doesn't know shit about fuck, but isn't smart enough to know it.

    9. Re:Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You: But the data is arriving in your company over a private wire, and never leaves the local LAN segment. The LAN is switched so nobody can sniff it.

      Security guy: If you can span the port that the data is coming in on then you could sniff it.

      You: But to do that you would need access to the management VLAN which is protected by ACLs, and anyway you can only get on to that VLAN in our premises.

      Security guy: But the data is confidential so you will have to encrypt it.
      Unless everybody who has access to the management VLAN is also authorized to view the confidential data in question, then you are flat out wrong. Yes, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and can't restrict access as well as you'd like. But your dismisal of the security concerns as being stupid betrays your ignorance on the subject of security.
    10. Re:Project Managers by swillden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      her: but X is on the schedule to be compete today. Y and Z are not scheduled to be done until next month. now we are behind schedule.

      And what you didn't know, and didn't bother to ask about, was that X had to be done this month because, Q, R and S were all depending on X, and they're major subprojects that are pushing the end date. So the fact that X will be delayed for a couple of weeks will push the entire project end date out, even if it gets Y and Z done a little sooner than planned

      Or maybe not. It's also possible that there was no dependency, but if you don't ask, you can't know.

      The key is not to make decisions like "I'll do Y and Z now because they'll make X easier, even though X is on the schedule to be done first" without talking to whoever decided that X must be done before Y and Z. If there aren't any dependencies driving X to be done first, that conversation just makes you look really smart, and lets you do the work in the order you wanted to. If there are, however, that conversation keeps you out of hot water.

      In general, it's a good idea to get approval before you change task priorities.

      Note that there certainly are circumstances in which that doesn't work. I once worked for a PM who was afraid of his own project planning tool, so he basically refused to ever change the plan no matter how much sense it made (even when major requirements changed!). In that case, your best bet is still to do everything just as though your PM weren't a complete fool, and take notes on all of the obviously stupid decisions he makes so that when it all goes down in flames you can make sure he takes the heat, not you. If you have a good line to senior management, you might be able to take your concerns to them early enough that the project doesn't self-destruct, but be very, very careful with that approach. It can screw you in a heartbeat, particularly with a lousy PM who is also a very good political operative.

      BTW, in the case of the PM I mentioned, he ultimately got canned. He was going to do something supremely stupid, something that would have serious external repercussions. I took it to his boss, who ordered him not to do that stupid thing. He did it anyway and then tried to cover himself by blaming me, which just compounded the error (duh!).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:Project Managers by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Funny you give a car service analogy.

      I have taken my car to the same place for oil changes and so on, for a long, long time.

      Every time, it is pointed out to me that I am significantly overdue for various things.

      Every time, I point out to them that the vehicle, being a European import, is calibrated in Kilometers.

      Every time, they note the next service based on an assumption that the odometer reads in miles.

      This was never a problem until one of them refused to honor a service warranty because of their misunderstanding.

      It was also a problem at the DMV emissions check, since 30 km/h on my gauge didn't correspond to 30 mph on their meter.
      They were going to fail me and not explain why!

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    12. Re:Project Managers by fatphil · · Score: 1

      The problem was with the plan, and the plan should have been fixed way back. Just continuing to disregard the plan and not deliver on time is irresponsible. Irresponsible workers are a liability. That's you, that is.

      FatPhil

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    13. Re:Project Managers by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter whether it needs it or not when you're on a govt. contract you do it anyway and bill the time.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    14. Re:Project Managers by convolvatron · · Score: 1

      actually the inverse problem is much worse. if you need
      to change the work items, or the schedule, thats what
      you have technical managers for.

      the best (worst) program managers gleefully tick off
      all their boxes when told, and are honestly suprised that
      6 months after the scheduled date the project still
      isn't complete.

  26. Paperless Office? I've got the solution!! by uglydog · · Score: 0

    IBM Content Manager!

    I just started a new job where they use this. It's pretty cool. Got APIs and all that. Kinda big and expensive tho.

  27. How is this news? by EnderGT · · Score: 5, Informative
    The FBI abandoned the VCF program in 2005. The replacement program, called Sentinel, is being led by Lockheed Martin. It is budgeted at $425 million, and won't be ready until 2009.

    Rereading the summary, the submitter has it wrong - "FBI's attempt to modernize their department has once again failed" implies that Sentinel has failed - which is definitely not the content of the article. Even the snippet quoted is about VCF having problems, not Sentinel.

    1. Re:How is this news? by kabir · · Score: 1

      Additionally, the VCF failure is well known. Very well known. Heck, it's used as an example of what not to do in software engineering courses all the time.

      --
      Behold the Power of Cheese!
    2. Re:How is this news? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Rereading the summary, the submitter has it wrong - "FBI's attempt to modernize their department has once again failed" implies that Sentinel has failed - which is definitely not the content of the article. Even the snippet quoted is about VCF having problems, not Sentinel.

      Way to just melt the tinfoil fun right off the story, dude. How can we have a slashdot groupthink paranoiagasm Hate-Teh-Bush-Fest if you go and point out the actual facts? Honestly, you're a total buzz-kill.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  28. Time to change jobs by doublem · · Score: 1

    That's it. I've had it.

    I've spent too many years working my rear off.

    It's time to start bidding on government programming contracts.

    Imagine, being paid loads of money and not having to produce anything functional, with the worst repercussion being having to change your company name before bidding on a new contract.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
  29. Smoke and mirrors by gstegman · · Score: 1

    Geez
    Not to speak ill of anyone but that's a lot of money to produce a big pile of shit. Now I would be willing to cut them some slack EXCEPT it's not the first time they have done this. Simultaneously with the FBI system, SAIC was working on a case management project for another intelligence agency, burned through millions of dollars and produced basically a bunch of screen shots and proof that they didn't understand what this agency wanted. Like the FBI this agency farmed the project out to a different company (a smaller company that I used to work for) and we managed to do in one year what SAIC failed to do in 2 years because we weren't focused on milking the government cash cow we were focused on coding a product that WORKED and MET THE BUSINESS NEEDS of the client. It's not rocket science.

    1. Re:Smoke and mirrors by vmcto · · Score: 1

      Not to take anything anyway from your company, since you claim they got the job done, but I have been involved in several large scale projects where my team or company that I was part of at the time was the second or even in one case the fourth company to try and build a specific system for a client.

      In a couple of those cases it was blatantly obvious that the prior company had drastically under-bid, tried to fit some known solution into the problem at hand, or was trying to incorrectly use new technology or system methods (c/s to web was a big one).

      But in almost all the other cases, if you paid attention you would see that the client themselves had gone through a significant learning process through the prior attempts. They tended to be more organized, more specific, and more ameniable to being told what they wanted or that the way they were asking for it wouldn't work.

      They were more educated, more able, and more willing to interface with a development team in a productive manner.

    2. Re:Smoke and mirrors by gstegman · · Score: 1

      Yeah definitely understand that phenomenon and that did help ALOT. But what happened in the SAIC case is they bid it cost plus expenses so they kept having requirement gathering sessions where they were selling the client on additional functionality. "Wouldn't it be great if it did this? We can make that happen." Without adding the 'for an extra 100K and 3 months' bit.

    3. Re:Smoke and mirrors by vmcto · · Score: 1

      Nice.

      Well, they didn't get to be a bigallion dollar company by treating their customers fairly now did they...

      Crap, that's what I've been doing wrong.

  30. That wouldn't surprise me at all. by pb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I heard a story a while back about a three-letter government agency who wanted a new air conditioning system put in. So the company doing it said, ok, I'll need to know how many people will be working in the building on average, etc., etc., and they were told that that's all classified, so they were forced to make a guess. Later, when the system didn't work so well, the same agency wanted to sue them, but it didn't get anywhere, due to the lack of fundamental information provided which was required for the optimal operation of the system in the first place. Typical.

    --
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
  31. Low bids the root of all government screwups by porkThreeWays · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hate the lowest bidder system. It seems like the root of all screwups in the government. It's not as black and white as you are competeing for model number 00120 of product X. All but the simplest of cases shouldn't have to go through the whole lowest bidder system. Quality is extremely important and low bids don't take that into account. This story didn't really mention whether this was a low bid deal or not, keep in mind.

    Look at pretty much any government building that was built on the lowest bidder system. I can pretty much guarantee it has mold or leaking issues.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:Low bids the root of all government screwups by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      I'd argue the issue is that people aren't including non-compliance clauses in their contracts. The company I just got hired by does telephony and VOIP applications, and their clients typcially have such clauses included in any contracts. If the provider drops the ball with regards to, say, a call center application, then they are required to pay some sort of fine.

      Some people argue that non-compliance clauses can make it difficult to find people willing to do the work for you, but I'd argue that if said people are capable of doing the work, then there's no reason to think that they'd run afoul of such clauses.

  32. Going paperless by Guanine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would be nice if, sometimes, large organizations realized that applying computers to solving the problems of a paper trail is going to cause many many problems before any benefits are seen. In working with my university, I've seen time and again the tendency of higher-ups to see computers as a panacea to any/all problems an office might confront in keeping records on things.

    For example, our housing lottery system was, until this past year, an in-person process where people were assigned times, showed up, claimed rooms, and was a fair system that worked. Then, the university got all fancy pants and replaced that lottery with this unbelievably crappy system called Residential Management System. To use: kill ad blocker, only use it in IE for Windows, ensure javascript settings are correct, and then wait until the clock allows you into the online lottery system. Attempt to use a non-intuitive UI that is completely new because you couldn't look at it before while time ticks away and other people claim the rooms you wanted. Even though I got the room I wanted, the experience was horrifyingly bad.

    For these large organizations, I think less can be more. Keep your paper trail, but create a highly efficient system for digitizing documents. That way, you start to have some advantages of computers (search, organization, cross-referencing) without the liability of a completely paperless system. From here, you can slowly make a transition from leaning on paper to leaning on machines. But that would be the sane way of doing things, and we're talking about a governement organization here.

    1. Re:Going paperless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem is the people who BUY the stuff from the vendor are neither the people who will implement it, nore the people who will use it. The application vendor in these large implementation projects has almost all the cards in this game. They supply a detailed list of all this shit that is 'needed', which is padded with numerous items from their own 'cooperative marketing agreements' with other vendors, and other stuff like networking and storage that the customer may already have. The 'buyers' who review this are generally non-technical managers who have no idea what each line item is, and just treat it as a checkoff list before the next tee time. If anything is balked at by the customer, the vendor can threaten it won't 'certify' the configuration.

      One of the end results of this is, over the years, organizations end up with 'islands' of redundant gear that was bought for each application. Even if this gear is SAN gear, each island is only used for one thing and is underutilized. You can see this at most any large shop. Then someone gets the brilliant idea of 'storage consolidation' etc... If this had been done when they were buying apps, they would have saved much dollars, and much headache in ongoing management complexity. As it is, the consolidation project often means just buying even more gear. Geaze!

  33. Re:Sounds like the client was the primar one at fa by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

    What the FBI needs is a small team of a couple smart guys who understand enough technology to know what is and isn't algorithmically or logically impossible, and understand how to deal with the human elements of project management from their end. Basically a real CTO and a couple good project managers and architect level technologists. If these people work with the contractors to gather requirements, build early prototypes to evaluate functionality before investing hundreds of millions in a fully functional system, and bring on board domain experts for specific areas like security, redundancy, backup systems, etc., then they should be fine. The fact that they seem not to have such a team and instead choose to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at contractors is just a disgusting waste of taxpayer dollars.

  34. Re:Sounds like the client was the primar one at fa by ChrisC1234 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You won't understand this until you've worked as a government contractor. When you are a contractor, the government employees are god (or at least that's what they think). In 90% of the projects that I have worked on for the government, it's the government employees who cause most of the problems. You are not given the authority to tell them "NO", and you must live with their idiotic decisions, even when you know that it will just cause more problems.

  35. Insanity by adavies42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The new project is even worse than the old. No software, with the possible exception of truly safety-critical stuff like missle-control or nuclear power plants, needs to cost $425 million and take four years. You could have a custom OS written in pure assembly for a quarter of that!

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
    1. Re:Insanity by jafac · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could have a custom OS written in pure assembly for a quarter of that!

      Not from a CMMI-Level 5 organization (given all the paperwork, change management, formal testing, etc. that the Government Requires). - worse still - when you're talking about a DoD contract, add DISA STIG, and IA compliance, etc. etc. etc.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  36. And this is different from the norm because? by pvera · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What TFA describes is the current state of general software development for hire, which has changed very little in the 18 years I have been programming.

    It doesn't matter how well planned the project is, or how well educated the customer is, or the proper allocation of project champions on the client side, we all end up getting hit with b.s. look-and-feel complaints that end up taking higher priority than fixing bugs.

    If you give the client the option between tweaking a template to a report, and tweaking the queries that feed the damn report so it runs 10% faster, the client will ask you to first make it pretty, then worry about the queries. If you dare ask them why, they will give you a b.s. explanation that it is all about perception. That the pretty page looks more "professional" and it looks like more work and care was put into it.

    A word of warning to those of you that are new to for-profit programming: whenever somebody uses the "it looks more professional" gambit, it usually means he has no excuse and is hoping you will drop it. He asked you to do it simply to please himself. HE wants the damn color of the page changed, or that heading two pixels taller, etc.

    Every couple of years we get hit with new programming methodology fads, but those don't help us with dealing with difficult customers. When you are pulling millions every year from the same two or three government contracts, the last thing your project manager wants is to piss off any of the primaries for the contracts. Extreme programming won't suddenly make your client listen to you.

    Why the hell do you think that programmers are so rabidly enthusiastic about working for free for a specific open source project? These same programmers will drag their feet and hate life in general when working at their salaried jobs. At the free project a hell of a lot of the people involved in running the project will actually have a clue, while at the projects at the salaried job the norm is a lot of the people in charge won't have a clue.

    --
    Pedro
    ----
    The Insomniac Coder
    1. Re:And this is different from the norm because? by Scarblac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Although this is true, it is also true that most programmers deliver crap looking, uncomfortable to use, half-assed interfaces if left to their own devices. I know I do...

      The same is true of a lot of Open Source software. Fun to do, very powerful, but much of it does look unprofessional or at least unreasonably hard to use, except for other programmers who share the same mindset as the maker.

      The tragedy is on one hand that the people who complain about the interface issues are themselves also totally untrained and unqualified to say what exactly needs to be changed, and on the other hand that of course a solid, great looking interface design should be made up front, in the design phase, by professionals. I don't think that ever happens.

      But we programmers can start by looking a bit more critically at our own work. A bit. While bitching about those irritating users who think looking professional matters more than actual function. Right?

      --
      I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
    2. Re:And this is different from the norm because? by mpcooke3 · · Score: 1

      The most important part of XP and Agile techniques in my opinion is rolling out the most basic thing you can early on that people can actually use. Then keep on making incremental improvements to it whilst adding more functionality and tests and rolling it out to more people. This does require support from the client and a change in the relationship from 300page legally binding technical specifications to an iterative approach based on trust and early feedback.
      You are right most companies that claim to be doing XP aren't doing it properly since their relationship with the client has not switched to an iterative basis.

      Pretty much the worst way to develop software is write a a 300 page legally binding ironclad specification which you give to a bunch of contractors along with a "release date". Then get a bunch of architects togethor to design a system handing over the details to some junior developers whom by 80% into the project almost all know the project is going wrong but don't care because they are still going to get paid - and blame it on management.

      The biggest problem XP solved was the way of working with the cusomters incrementally without big upfront design, but this still isn't happening in these big contracts. Companies are more interested in writing specs and "handing off" to the contracting company and then sueing them when it all goes tits up.
      The fact that so much was written down and checked by lawyers means that people can cover their arses and people are more interested in covering their arses with big fuck off contracts than developing software in an incremental way which allows for changing requirements and reduced risks.

      Big companies haven't really brought in to this aspect of agile/XP development and is another reason why people say "XP failed" when actually they have ignored the bits of XP that would have most benefited them. Change in this regard is of course hard as a whole fucked up system has developed around tendering and specifications and lawyers, lot's and lot's of lawyers. CEOs and governments feel confortable with the existing system even though they know it doesn't work.

    3. Re:And this is different from the norm because? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      The biggest problem XP solved was the way of working with the cusomters incrementally without big upfront design, but this still isn't happening in these big contracts. Companies are more interested in writing specs and "handing off" to the contracting company and then sueing them when it all goes tits up.
      The fact that so much was written down and checked by lawyers means that people can cover their arses and people are more interested in covering their arses with big fuck off contracts than developing software in an incremental way which allows for changing requirements and reduced risks.


      And the reason they aren't using it is so that they can charge big $$ for changes made after the original specification.

      The monolithic, slow model means the contractor can bill more.

      Being agile isn't in their interest.

      Alex

  37. DOT by jaweekes · · Score: 1

    I am surprised that they do not take a lesion from the DOT departments. Put in clauses in the contract giving them penalties if the project fails or is late, and rewards if it is early and does more then originally planned. Remember the highway bridge in LA that was finished something like a year ahead of schedule? The contractor was rewarded with a few million because of that. (I'm going by memory, so I might be off a bit...)

    I thought this type of thing was now standard in any software / hardware implementation, be it within a business or government agency.

    1. Re:DOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am surprised that they do not take a lesion from the DOT departments.

      There are some good, over-the-counter ointments available that should clear that right up.

  38. Story's not new by orac2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm an editor at IEEE Spectrum. Spectrum laid out out this story in September '05. (I submitted a link to Slashdot at the time, but the editors in their Infinite Wisdom rejected it). Despite our story being prominently featured in google, wikipedia, winning awards, etc, and using similar sources, and so on, the Washington Post didn't acknowledge any of Spectrum's reporting, which has prompted Spectrum's Editor-in-Chief to complain to the Washington's Post's Ombusdman thusly:

    Dear Ms. Howell,

    We were startled to see that the article "The FBI Upgrade that Wasn't" by
    Eggen and Witte in today's Washington Post is taken directly from an article
    we did in September 2005 called "Who Killed the Virtual Case File," by Harry
    Goldstein (http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep05/1455). His article has won 5
    major magazine awards. Neither Harry or Spectrum gets credit or attribution
    in the Washington Post piece.

    Your writers reinterviewed all our sources, including Matthew Patton, whose
    only press interview until your story today was in the Spectrum article.
    They filed the same FOIA, etc.

    Is this plagiarism? Not exactly. Is it shoddy, lazy journalism? You bet.

    Sincerely yours,

    Susan Hassler

    --
    "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    1. Re:Story's not new by Alfred,+Lord+Tennyso · · Score: 1

      I'd be very interested in knowing what comes of this. The Post is my daily paper, and I've had occasion to fire off letters to Ms. Howell on a couple of occasions. Both times she's responded to me, and on one the subject (if not my letter) made it into her column. I believe she'll take your charge seriously.

    2. Re:Story's not new by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

      And the IEEE September 2005 article "Who Killed the Virtual Case File" is awesome, Susan. What is ironic is that it provides both technical and project management insight into the FBI's failed efforts that would have benefited /.'ers the most, and it is amazing that editors here chose not to link to it if that is the case (virtual or otherwise).

              Perhaps they can rectify that now. The Washington Post article is entirely dumbed down, and unless /. is catering to script kiddies these days, you'd think they would appreciate linking to an article with meat (perhaps not freshmeat, but meat nonetheless).

            That is, if it can still be linked to. If not, they should get permission to reprint here as many /. comments are entirely off the mark because they have no idea from the Washington Post fluff article.

            In defense of the Washington Post however, Eggen and others there wrote good articles on this in January and June 2005, so I was somewhat dumbfounded at this year later rehash being presented as not old news. Given journalistic creed, they must have got a fresh interview (and from what I recall of the Post article, a major league self serving fluff interview at that) and decided to go with it again.

            Again, /. would be wise to follow up with your IEEE article to give their readers some real perspective on this and other ongoing mindboggling billions of dollars of software development disaster going on in Washington.

        rd

  39. Interesting by sharkey · · Score: 1

    The NRC report complains that the contractor dealt with Trilogy as a "business as usual" program, without regard to its importance to national security.

    How interesting, that a contractor for whom "incompleteness, lack of follow-through, failure to optimize and missing documentation" is business as usual, should be able to gain ANY public-funds contracts REGARDLESS of the "national security" impact. Based on this assessment of SAIC's work for the FBI and characterization of their general lack of competence, it would seem that any dealing with SAIC by a public body should be scrutinized for appropraitions misuse at the very least.

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  40. I thought this was really old news... by mclaincausey · · Score: 1
    This was old news when the IEEE Spectrum featured it in an issue about failed software engineering projects.

    On another note, does anyone else find it infuriating that SAIC intentionally refused to alert FBI to the project's going awry? I mean, we're not just talking about stealing taxpayer dollars, we're talking about a system that could save lives.

    --
    (%i1) factor(777353);
    (%o1) 777353
  41. The obvious answer by GigG · · Score: 1

    They need to bring in the team developing DukeNukem:Forever.

    --
    Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
  42. Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another failed outsourcing project..

  43. Why don't they use a Wiki? by Erore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, I have no idea all of their needs requirements, but it seems like a big one is cross-connecting one set of data with another. The intricate connections of intelligence data probably defies anyones ability to design a system that could capture it all. But, a Wiki, which automatically creates links can do it for you, on the fly. So, create some Wiki templates for information about people, cases, incidents, whatever, and create Wiki links on the keywords when you fill out the templates (names, dates, code names, case numbers, and so on) and let the Wiki link everything together for you.

    With a lot of data already entered, in no time you'll be typing in a routine report and find out that the name you just typed already has a Wiki page, and lo and behold! some agent in Nebraska is looking for that exact person for a child abduction. Case closed. All praise the Wiki.

    1. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by rehtonAesoohC · · Score: 1

      I work for a contracting company, and I definitely know that if I ever were to mention the word "Wiki" to any of the government customers, they would have a word with their boss, who would have a word with their boss, who would have a word with my boss, who would have a word with me. And not in a good way...

    2. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by FleaPlus · · Score: 1

      I work for a contracting company, and I definitely know that if I ever were to mention the word "Wiki" to any of the government customers, they would have a word with their boss, who would have a word with their boss, who would have a word with my boss, who would have a word with me. And not in a good way...

      It's kind of funny... most people I talk to assume that all wikis have to allow anonymous editing. Of course, this isn't the case, and having a wiki-like system with authenticated usernames would be pretty much ideal for what the FBI wants.

    3. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by Erore · · Score: 1

      Yes, a wiki-like system with authenticated users is exactly what I meant. I thought that point was obvious and didn't need to be mentioned. I certainly was not advocating a base install of MediaWiki and turning the Deputy Director Skinner and asking, "Can I have my 100 million now?"

    4. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by chrisb33 · · Score: 1

      Then don't use the word "Wiki." Call it an Authenticated Collaboration System (ACS), add some access controls and voila! That will be $400 million please...

    5. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by FleaPlus · · Score: 1

      Yes, a wiki-like system with authenticated users is exactly what I meant. I thought that point was obvious and didn't need to be mentioned.

      The point may be obvious to us, but it certainly isn't obvious to the people who would be making the decisions, or the popular-press. Heck, I can already imagine the headlines: "FBI wants to let anybody edit criminal records", "Wikipedia method to be used for FBI database"

    6. Re:Why don't they use a Wiki? by littlewink · · Score: 1

      I'm interested in hearing more about this Wiki approach, please.

      The core requirement is merely keeping associated data together. A criminal incident occurs: a crime is committed, there are facts to be written down, photos taken, witnesses statements, objects stolen/used, evidence to be sent to crime lab, and all this has to be captured in a fairly short time and kept together by some tracking system. Incidents are managed: factors added that indicate the likelihood of successful prosecution, investigators assigned and reassigned, new evidence introduced and old evidence invalidated, etc. So the main effort is just in keeping the facts together.

      Cross-linking is a second-order function necessary for criminal intelligence and (*gasp*) terrorism. But these are exceptional. Most crime is committed by fairly isolated individuals with significant markers of their behavior and they're not usually difficult to track. That's why I mention the "core requirement".

      As for the Wiki, I'm all ears!8-)) I'd like more, please, Sir! [spoken as in the film "Oliver"].

      Some other requirements: do/could these fit into the Wiki framework?

      1. Data in a relational database. How do most Wikis store their data?
      2. Statistics must be gathered. How many homicides, rapes, etc. by date, by district or beat, etc.
      3. Auditing is necessary, so we can see who entered/changed data and when,
      4. We'll need to store multimedia: photos, phone calls, lab results (blobs), etc. So seems that the WWW with HTTP is great, since it supports browsers (even w/plugins for arcane vendor-specific data),

      I was tempted to say "use NNTP (newsgroups) as an adjunct to tracking criminal incidents", because newsgroups allow security, allow people to add data to a topic, nothing is ever deleted, and there's an obvious history to a topic, like here on /. But AFAIK newsgroups don't have the relational component underlying although it seems possible to build that into a system.

  44. Time to stop outsourcing by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    Maybe, just maybe, the FBI needs to hire a software development manager - and 20-30 software developers and testers. Maybe this whole government contract thing just doesn't work any more.

    Look at huge projects like the Big Dig, and this FBI software upgrade. Outside companies collect the cash and hand over a botched project.

    I'll bet that if these developers and PMs worked for the government on this project and risked losing their jobs, this project would have turned out differently.

    -ted

  45. $170 Million buys 730,000 lines of computer code.. by wasexton · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or does $232.87 PER LINE of code sound a bit expensive for development costs?

  46. How to defraud the government: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Step 1: Set up a legitimate contracting buisness.

  47. If the rest of the world were as picky about QA... by mi · · Score: 1

    Microsoft Office would've never taken hold...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  48. Old News and No News? by Nerd_52637 · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the original post: the FBI's attempt to modernize their department has once again failed

    Failed once again? The article (you have to read the whole thing) says it's on track.

    The article is 90% about the Virtual Case File system ("built" by SAIC) and it's eventual demise in early 2005, almost 2 years ago. At the end, they discuss the FBI's replacement for VCF, saying:

    "Last year, FBI officials announced a replacement for VCF, named Sentinel, that is projected to cost $425 million and will not be fully operational until 2009. A temporary overlay version of the software, however, is planned for launch next year. The project's main contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., will be paid $305 million and will be required to meet benchmarks as the project proceeds. FBI officials say Sentinel has survived three review sessions and is on budget and on schedule."


  49. You're thinking like a tech, not a politician by doublem · · Score: 1

    Aside from making too much sense for a government project, your plan has a political disadvantage.

    Be it a politician showing off for his constituency, or an employee trying to gain power in an organization, small, incremental steps like the ones you describe are too "subtle."

    Hell, in the private sector I've been accused of "lacking vision" for proposing incremental changes similar to the ones you describe.

    Pointy Haired Bosses want to show off MASIVE strides that they can claim credit for, not smaller projects. It doesn't matter how much progress is actually made. All that matters is how much impact it LOOKS like you're having.

    You're thinking like a tech trying to actually resolve the problem. In order to understand how this colossal mess came to be, you have to look at if from the viewpoint of a political battle. It's not about fixing the problems, but LOOKING like you're fixing them.

    Imagine for a moment you've been placed in charge of a road system that's in terrible disrepair. A major highway elevated cuts through the center of town and it's falling to pieces. The roads are a warren of side streets and even the locals get lost often due to the poor signage.

    Do you:

    A: Begin a far reaching plan to revitalize the road system though effective, thorough and competent maintenance, repaving roads and replacing small, hard to read road signs with larger, more visible markers, thus making it easier to navigate the city

    B: Begin a misguided plan to move the aging elevated highway underground, requiring you to tunnel through landfill and under rivers, in an area with a subway system that's as random and disordered as the roads above.

    If you're a tech, you choose Option A. If you're a politician, you choose Option B, because it provides a LOT of photo opportunities whenever some new segment of the new tunnel system opens. It also provides lots of publicity due to all the "advanced technology" and "top level engineering" needed to pull it off.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
  50. Typical of Large Projects by sheldon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've learned this over and over again at my company. The likelihood of scrapping the whole thing because you've got nothing is logarithmic to the cost. That is, the more the costs go up, the more likely you scrap the whole thing.

    The project has to be bitten in chunks. Lay out the functionality, and then start implementing it one small piece at a time, integrating as you go along. The Big Bang approach is always doomed to failure, or explosive costs, especially when you get to the reality that to deploy you need to shut down the business for two weeks to manage the data conversion. Lot's of small $1 million projects are more likely to succeed and be at budget then one big $20 million project.

    This isn't news. It's the whole momentum behind a lot of modern development techniques such as Agile, or architectural such as SOA.

    There's also a corrolary that any project involving a big consulting company like EDS, CSC, Anderson(or whatever the hell their name isnow), etc. is more than likely going to cost double what it should.

    1. Re:Typical of Large Projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering: what are the government IT successes that were ran by a major IT consultancy? I can think of exactly zero examples from the UK. Most of them were screwed up by EDS and Capita, though other companies such as Systems Options (London Ambulances) and Siemens (who should stick to making toasters) manage to fail as well.

      If Pizza Hut can manage to offer to deliver hot and on time, or it's free, then governments (who are hardly in a weak negotiating position) should insist on similar terms.

    2. Re:Typical of Large Projects by rcw-work · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Amen. From Wikipedia's Systemantics article:

      15. A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
      16. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over, beginning with a working simple system.

      IMHO, John Gall's observations on political systems are incredibly apropos to technical systems.

    3. Re:Typical of Large Projects by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      The likelihood of scrapping the whole thing because you've got nothing is logarithmic to the cost. That is, the more the costs go up, the more likely you scrap the whole thing.

      Yes, but that is the backwards-looking result at the end of the project.

      When you are 1 year into a project, the chance of it being cancelled its related to the ratio of costs-approved / money already spent. If the project is a 10-stage project that you consider likely to succeed, then there is substantial risk that management will cancel it at stage 1-2 to free up funds that were allocated for stages 3-10.

      On the other hand, if you make it one monster project, and sink tons of money into pre-paid contracts, license fees, and hardware costs in the first month of the project, then management looks at the costs as sunk and lets the project go on. As a result, project managers run their projects that way.

      I'm always amazed at work when a new system is approved that will take 1 year to develop that the first step is inevitably to order the production server hardware. Then when the project is done 2 years later everybody is shocked that it is running on stuff that you can't even buy any more. If they waited they could get superior performance for half the cost. On the other hand, they could have had the budget taken from them - and hence the reason the money got spent as soon as it was granted.

    4. Re:Typical of Large Projects by sheldon · · Score: 1

      Amen. That buying the production hardware stuff at project startup. How can you even know what you're going to need for deployment until after you get somethign constructed and tested?

      I worked on a project a few years ago where they did this. Some idiot said he wanted the biggest box he could get. So they ordered like 3-4 of these 8-way 700-Mhz Xeon servers. The two way boxes we had in development outperformed them with the app.

  51. They should have hired Lucy Farinelli.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She solved that problem years ago.

  52. Hire Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't it be in their interests to contract the development out to Google to develop for them? Would Google even do that? After all they are *the* information company and have a knack for keeping the UI simple and extremely usable.

    Or...

    Do something like the DARPA challenge, have a bunch of colleges compete to provide a usable VCF system in exchange for some grants.

  53. Project Management by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    One of the keys to project management is to have an understanding of the project itself. Another key is buy-in from the project sponsor. And the prime key is planning. I cannot emphasize enough how important the planning process is.

    When we moved our office we planned ad nauseum but because of that planning had contingencies in place so our operations didn't suffer. The move went off without a major hitch. We also have a fairly good I.T. project management system in place that we use.

    Because failure to understand the issues and failing to plan for contingencies doom pretty much all government projects.

  54. Daily WTF by tholomyes · · Score: 1

    Personally, I can't wait to see some of the code of this undoubtedly awesome enterprise-level code show up on the daily wtf. This should be good for a few laughs (then at least my taxes can give me some entertainment value).

    --
    When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
  55. Must be a cover by ajlitt · · Score: 1

    for budgeting something top secret. C.G.B. Spender was unavailable for comment.

  56. The solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wiki.fbi.gov

  57. Sometimes the problem is the specs. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the specifications for the system were imprecise or constantly changing (as often happens), that would limit the ability of ANY software developer to create a stable functional system on time and within budget.

    I'm not going to criticise the folks who were trying to implement the system until I know a lot more about the actual conditions in which they were trying to work...

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    1. Re:Sometimes the problem is the specs. by EnderGT · · Score: 1

      The criticism they deserve is for not waving the red flag and telling the FBI that they were asking the impossible. They just kept nodding their heads and cashing the checks, knowing full well the whole time that it was never going to get done.

    2. Re:Sometimes the problem is the specs. by bozendoka · · Score: 1, Informative

      Perhaps slightly OT, but related:
      I work for a large retailer that many here have no doubt frequented. A few years ago said employer outsourced ~95% of their IS department (thankfully I wasn't and still am not part of IS). The contract, as I understand, revolves around the company saving x amount of dollars, which they do admirably. It's simple really. It's so motherfscking impossible to get anything done through them that most departments either give up or work around IS entirely. Fewer projects == less money spent == savings!

      On the one hand I'm bitter, on the other hand I wouldn't have a job if they actually did their's.

      --
      "You will soon be more aware of your growing awareness." - My first recursive fortune cookie!
    3. Re:Sometimes the problem is the specs. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      We don't know that they didn't do that. I've seen instances in the past where red flags were presented to (and then shouted at management) without any results.

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    4. Re:Sometimes the problem is the specs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo! In public projects I've seen, the specs at the beginning are voluminous (more than you can physically read) yet simultaneously extremely precise and imprecise ("Able to create claim with 9 digit zip code"--great about zip code but what is a "claim"?). Then, you have meetings to solidify the specs. Then you create part of the system and demo it. Then the public employees say everything is "all wrong". Repeat until either consulting company has spent double the amount of the contract or until the public employee managers need a fall guy and fire the contractor. That is what happens.

  58. Clearly, never worked in software before! by Antifuse · · Score: 1

    A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said Hahahahaha... Oh man, that's hilarious. You're lucky if you manage to get rid of them all BY the delivery date... But to say that with a month to go, you are just at the "changing colours" stage? That's awesome.

  59. Case in point: by gr8_phk · · Score: 1
    A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.
    What's he smoking?
  60. politically a good snipe, but let's talk reality by netruner · · Score: 1

    " 'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"

    I don't know what software shop he worked in, but I've never seen a time when there weren't numerous SPRs. SPRs aren't necessarily a bad thing - they show that you know where the problems are. If all you're doing is changing colors, you're wasting the customer's money. Get out there and find problems to write SPRs on. Any software of nontrivial size is going to have bugs.

    --



    DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
  61. how about an OSS system? by GI+Jones · · Score: 1

    When I look at huge bureaucratic SNAFUs like this, I can't help but think that an OSS project would have stepped up and filled the hole. Heck, it isn't like there aren't plenty of OSS hackers out there who wouldn't love to contribute to a project that might foil the next terror plot. Why not document the existing infrastructure and put together a software requirements document and let the OSS community go to town creating a FREE software solution? I know that there are some of you out there that wouldn't want the the "man" to use OSS software to track down your pr0n or help build a case against you for all the illegal BitTorrent downloads you have, but, I think most of the OSS community would love a stab at it... sign me up for the web-based UI development! Heck, I'd volunteer my time to help do a business requirements study with field agents... as long as it is the X-files group ;)

    Just my $0.02

    --
    "Perhaps most amazingly, votaries of 'diversity' insist on absolute conformity." -- Tony Snow
  62. FBI should hold a Grand Challenge style contest by metoc · · Score: 1

    The should hold a DARPA Grand Challenge style contest for the design. The top ten designs get $1,000,000 each and a year to deliver a working prototype. The winner gets a $50,000,000 contract to finish and deliver.

    Cost is less than half of what they spent on the VCF system ($10 Mil for the contest + $50 Mil for the winner + $10 Mil for adminitration), and delivers in 3 years (6 months for the contest, 3 month review, 1 year for prototypes + 3 month review, and 1 year to deliver).

    All reviews should be open, and for good measure discovery of a major flaw or bugs is worth $1000.

  63. Such actions are not permitted. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

    The Istari are not permitted to design or create systems directly. That would involve a direct confrontation of skill against skill, and that is forbidden. Instead, they can only provide limited assistance to those who are trying to write their own systems.

    Sheesh. :-)

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  64. Re:Sounds like the client was the primar one at fa by whitelabrat · · Score: 1

    Problem number one started by bringing in contractors. Contracts are best for short term trash and burn projects. This size of project needs to be done by government employees who don't need to answer to anyone and who will be around long enough to really know the system and maintain it over the system's lifecycle. A small team of programmers, admins, and a great project manager who will make it their career to see this sort of thing through is needed.

    There is a real vaccum for talented contract employees too. Most folks are just sucked in by these body shops and then are asked to do jobs without any planning, good management, or experience. I know because I've been one! It sucks because your just a warm body to mop up cash for places like SAIC.

    The Gov't needs to get off the contract wagon and bring in people who are willing to take ownership of what they do. And the Gov't shouldn't pay a dime to a contractor until the friggin thing works!!!

  65. Re: a month before by RareButSeriousSideEf · · Score: 1

    Well said; should I credit you if I rework it into a numbered list & append it to my development plan documents in the future?

  66. Not New Story sheds no new light by porslap · · Score: 5, Informative

    full disclosure: I wrote the "Who Killed the Virtual Case File" story for Spectrum, which ran last September.

    Here's some more food for thought about the "reporting" behind the FBI story:

    What's the news angle that warrants front page attention in the Post? That the Post reporters obtained the "unreleased" Aerospace report? Not news: the report was released to Spectrum at the end of April after nine months of litigating a Freedom of Information Act Request.

    All the Post reporters had to do was google "virtual case file" and voila! the story pops up as number 1, right there for them to rewrite!

    But say they are too lazy to bother googling. They just want the summary. The Spectrum article is the basis for the Wikipedia Entry on the Virtual Case File and the only external link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Case_File

    The Spectrum article was the first and until the Post article, the only one to mention Matthew Patton, who was unearthed by dint of investigative reporting nowhere acknowledged in the Post article.

    The Post article purports to turn a spotlight on SAIC, in part by quoting David Kay, the Iraq weapons inspector, who was a former SAIC VP--but who had absolutely no firsthand knowledge of the VCF project.

    The Post article uncritcally takes FBI CIO Azmi's word that the follow up project Sentinel is on-budget and on-time, when other news outlets have recently reported about a growing sense within the FBI that this project is doomed to a fate similar to the VCF's.

  67. "24" by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

    Next time I watch 24 and see agents watching satellite images in realtime on their cellphones, I'll guffaw a little louder and think of this FBI thing.

    Mr. Azmi should get the boot for this, and Mr Mueller a ten-hour-a-day, weeklong grilling on c-span, before being demoted to tape archivist. No, make that toilet cleaner.

  68. Re: a month before by magixman · · Score: 1

    I will send you the .mpp file :-)

  69. What COTS Solutions Exist? by littlewink · · Score: 1
    What companies make large COTS records management software solutions for criminal case management? Requirements are roughly:
    • large city police department (millions of citizens)
    • thousands of incidents per day, of which
    • hundreds of criminal offenses per day
    • thousands of officers assigned
    • many divisions, beats etc. (which are periodically reorganized)
    • legal geographic management desired (so PD knows if call is inside/outside legal jurisdiction area)
    • management reports desired
    • UCR statistics reporting mandatory
    • NIBRS if possible
    • interchange of data with other governmental entities (e.g., FBI, BATF, etc.) desirable
    • personnel management
    • tying into the above, security management of data (e.g., so suspeneded employess can't see data, only certain employees can see confidential, narcotics data, etc., employees can't snoop other employees' personal data, etc.)
    • tracking of towed vehicles, impounded goods]
    • tracking of impounded evidence for cases
    • tracking evidence through criminal laboratory processing, including state or federal (FBI) processing

    Does anyone know of canned solutions? My experience has been that this is usually customized, but most police departments have a need.

    1. Re:What COTS Solutions Exist? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      talk to any large vendor, I'm sure they tell you they have an off the shelf system that only needs minor changes.
      Of course after they have your money and you must ahve the work done will you find out what they have is a very loose archetecture that needs heavy modification.
      Of course, if you cancel it, then you get in trouble for it failing, and if it misses the deadline you are blamed for incompetency, and if you sue the company other comanies start raising there rates to deal with you, and it may impact any bond ratings.
      But if it is successfull, then now one hears about it at all.

      The fact that it is cliche means whenever a private orginization fails they can blame it on the government and everyone believes them without looking at the facts.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  70. I love you-and your money too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I love helping you /.ers out."

    Can I borrow $50 from you?

  71. The real question is... by BillGod · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Did anyone else pick up on this. from TFA: David Kay, a former SAIC senior vice president who did not work on the program but closely watched its development.... "SAIC was at fault because of the usual contractor reluctance to tell the customer, 'You're screwed up. You don't know what you're doing. This project is going to fail because you're not managing your side of the equation,' " said Kay, who later became the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq. A couple things here i dont get. 1. work for a company that contracts out to the US government. A company that as screwed the pooch since day 1. Then get a JOB from the US government. 2. what the hell does being a VP of a software company give you ANY ability what so ever as a weapons inspector??

    --
    MISSING - Sig file. 2 years old black and white and very funny. If found please email me.
    1. Re:The real question is... by belmolis · · Score: 1

      Kay had long experience as a weapons inspector, for the Pentagon and the United Nations, before he worked for SAIC, according to his Wikipedia bio. The question is more the other way around then: what was a weapons inspector doing as VP of a software firm? I don't know why they hired him, but I can imagine that his experience would be useful in management even if he isn't, presumably, expert in computer science.

    2. Re:The real question is... by unitron · · Score: 1
      What I'm wondering is what other horrible government failures has David Kay been near enough to that he could say after the fact "I could tell it was going to be a disaster" without having been close enough to take any of the blame, and was Scott Ritter around to to declare that it was going to be a disaster before it happened when something might have been gained by having listened to him?

      No, I'm not entirely kidding.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  72. truly sad by viking2000 · · Score: 1

    Here is waht Zalmai Azmi, the FBI's top technology officer observed weeks before the project was finished:
    ==============
    As far as Zalmai Azmi was concerned, the FBI's technological revolution was only weeks away.

    It appeared to work beautifully. Until Azmi, now the FBI's technology chief, asked about the error rate.

    Software problem reports, or SPRs, numbered in the hundreds

    "A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs," Azmi said. "You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors."
    ===========

    Either Zalmai Azmi, the FBI's top technology officer
    1. Has no clue what his job description is
    2. Has no clue about technology project management.

    In either case, truly sad.

    1. Re:truly sad by geekoid · · Score: 1

      why do you say that? He is corrcet, when weeks away you should only be dealing with little issues.
      Cntrary to what people think, you should not be fixing major bugs up to the last minute of the release.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:truly sad by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

      With the future of the FBI at stake, learning of the project's failure at this late stage means that Mr Azmi failed utterly in his job. What was this dude doing a year ago, six months ago? Playing Solitaire?

    3. Re:truly sad by viking2000 · · Score: 1

      Of course he is correct. He should however have been aware of these issues from day one, not right before delivery. All technology companies I know of have weekly status meetings. The key is *no surprises*. If any issue can impact functionality, finish date or any other deliverable each person is required to flag and report immediately.

      To get such a huge surprise so late in the game just demonstrated incompetence of both management and at all levels througout the team.

  73. The Santa Monica bridge reconstruction by edremy · · Score: 5, Informative
    The I-10 bridge rebuild following the Northridge earthquake: details here

    This is how big government projects *should* be done. Hire a good contractor, set a minimum and then give bonuses for good performance and penalties for bad. Did the final tally cost a lot in bonuses? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes- they fixed a major problem in amazing time and did it correctly, plus they had a bunch of blue-collar folks make serious coin working triple time, all of which got plowed back into the local economy.

    You can argue it wasn't on budget due to the bonuses, but it was assumed from the beginning they'd be paying out. Since the daily economic loss to LA was higher than the daily bonus for finishing early, I'd argue it was actually under budget.

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  74. Third Time's the Charm ... by constantnormal · · Score: 1

    ... as I am confident that they will remedy all previous problems by expanding the scope to encompass all of Homeland Security, in a gigantic multi-faceted morass of a system that will add a zero (or two) to the price tag and be awarded to Halliburton in yet another no-bid sweetheart deal. Just the disparate "security" requirements to isolate yet bind together the FBI, CIA, NSA, and FEMA will cause analysts' heads to spin so rapidly they snap off and go soaring into the blue. Testers will not be allowed to see the results of their tests due to lack of proper security clearances and a "need to know".

    If they really wanted to fix the problems at the FBI, do you think they would have rolled it into the largest bureaucracy in the government?

    When you want to fix something that has problems, you isolate it so that the flaws stand out and can be remedied. If, on the other hand, you just want the flaws be not quite so visible, you roll it up inside something that stinks and bury it.

    (why is it that we have such misnomers -- Homeland Security when there is none, The Patriot Act by those who are most assuredly *not* patriots, ...)

  75. Thats crap by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I have 15 years in the private sector, and less time then that in the public sector.

    There is less waste in the public sector then ANY corporation.
    Almost all monies spent in the public sector are open for scrutiny(as it should be). There fore not only does everything that goes wrong available, it's available and often misinterpeted.
    However, every dollar spent in a private orginization is very difficult to track, if at all.

    Every, and I mean EVERY project I have seen given to contractors(private companies)for government work has gone over budget and missed many deadlines. I have never seen a project done soley by the government gone over budget, and rarely seen it go past a deadline. When it has gone past a deadline 6 out of 10 times it's because a private company has failed to deliver.

    rule of thumb:
    when a government agency has a success 9 out of ten times, the public only hears that 1 failure, when a corporation fails 9 out of ten times, you only hear of that ONE success.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  76. Re:$170 Million buys 730,000 lines of computer cod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can tell you've never asked SAIC for a quote on a project.

  77. Clearly you have never been on a properly by geekoid · · Score: 1

    managed project before.

    He is right, and project I manage have never had more then 25 reports of bugs (non visual) a month before release.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  78. Small potatoes by etresoft · · Score: 2, Insightful

    730K for $170 million? For the government, that is nothing. It is actually a pretty good price for that amount of code. It also seems like it was a pretty quick project too. And hundreds of SPRs a week before release? Not bad!

    From my government contracting experience, none of this sounds that bad. Hopefully there is much more to the story that they aren't talking about. But from the examples they are using, SAIC's performance sounds distinctly "above average." It may have been a disaster, but TFA does not give us enough accurate information make that judgement.

  79. This is 2005 news! by SysKoll · · Score: 2, Funny
    This came up last year alreaady, when the Virtual Case system was officially written off. Why on Earthis it news? It is ONE YEAR OLD, for crying out loud. Are they that slow at the Washington Post?

    More likely, they are just tools for the FBI's PR branch. As in:

    FBI IT boss: "We need a new IT budget for a project that will really work, this time, we swear."
    FBI director: "Errr, that's risky. The previous two were embarrasing failures."
    PR manager: "Let's revive last year's VCFS story and put a "lesson learned" positive spin on it!"
    FBI director: "Positive spin??? On a $170 million piece of crud? Come on! Who would be stupid enough to print it?"
    PR manager: "You obviously haven't opened the Washington Post recently..."

    --

    --
    Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

  80. Boondoggle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Classic boondoggle scenario.

  81. Re:Stop whining you dumb fuck libertarian by carpeweb · · Score: 1

    I worked for [name deleted to protect the stupid] for 10 years, and $175MM is cheap compared to what we wasted on a few major IT projects that never went anywhere. It's not specific to Accenture, it's specific to bureaucracy, which is just as bad in large corporations as it is in the gubment.

    It's hard to understand from TFA why Amzi still has a job, much less why he was promoted to CIO after being the special assistant to help straighten things out in the first place. Of course, I'm sure there are just as many non-IT people who should have been canned over this fiasco. (OK, I know that a CIO isn't necessarily an IT person.)

  82. Replacing real with imaginary? by dascandy · · Score: 1

    You can't just take a complex organization and turn it around 90 degrees without expecting trouble...

  83. complex or simple? by geoff+lane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if 90% of the functionality could not be provided by secure web servers and good quality wiki.

    But that would be cheap and quick to implement and not much chance of making a vast profit.

    1. Re:complex or simple? by annakin · · Score: 1

      >I wouldn't be at all surprised if 90% of the functionality could not be provided by secure web servers and good quality wiki.

      Exactly. This story isn't believable. Scroll down on page 2 of the article and you'll find this:

      "The FBI's primary information management system, designed using 1980s technology already obsolete when installed in 1995,

      See? This has happened before. I was hearing about this story in the early 90's. The FBI screwed up its computer system twice in a row, over a period of 30 years?? Come on.

  84. They don't know what they want by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Heck, give me half that--$85 million--and I'll develop the friggin' system myself.

    You'd probably think so, but I bet after the first few months of totally contradictory change requests, specification creep, and an utter lack of hard-and-fast acceptance criteria, that you'd throw up your hands, too.

    You can blame the contractors all you want, but I've worked on a bunch of projects like this, and they almost always fail not because the developers weren't good or didn't know their stuff, but because there wasn't somebody on the client side who had the political (internal/office-politics, not Democrats/Republicans politics, although within the USG they're often related) capital to get all the little fiefdoms that exist inside a big organization and sit them down and say "Okay, Fuckheads: this is the system we're going to be using, this is how it's going to work, and you will use it."

    Projects like this fail when you let every Tom, Dick and Harry start pushing features into it. I've seen situations where software is in the final stages of testing, and somebody decides that it would be fun to bring down the Big Boss to show them where all these millions of dollars have been spent. And the Boss will come down and take one look at the software, and immediately demand that something get changed. Often I don't think that they really care about what they're demanding, they just want to show off that they have the power to change shit, so they do.

    It's stuff like that which pushes projects into failure, even if they look dead simple on paper. The problem isn't a software-engineering one, it's a customer-relations one. It's a problem of the people hiring the developers probably not having a good idea of what they wanted in software, and not having a single person in charge of it.

    You can tell that happened with this FBI project, because it's obvious just from the summary that the CIO wasn't involved in the project throughout its lifecycle. He just seemingly walked in on it when it was a month away from deployment, at which point I'm sure everything was totally FUBAR. The way to have prevented this would have been to get somebody like that on board from the very beginning, who could have kicked ass and taken names and kept things under control.

    Without good leadership on the client side, and a clear set of business processes, requirements, and acceptance criteria, it's not surprising that these large software projects fail as often as they do. However, as long as the failures are equally profitable to the development contracting companies as the successes, they have no problem taking on a contract even though they know the client is going to drive it into the ground and has no idea what they want. /rant

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:They don't know what they want by letxa2000 · · Score: 1
      The way to have prevented this would have been to get somebody like that on board from the very beginning, who could have kicked ass and taken names and kept things under control.


      Obviously! How any developer (or contractor) even considers developing a system like this without getting the VIPs involved from the very beginning is beyond me. It's like writing a million lines of code and then debugging it rather than making sure each function you write is solid before you move on. Immediate contact with the VIPs is necessary. Then you let underlings make their proposals, then you run it by the VIPs, and then you have a spec and move forward with coding. You also get in there and work with the client as if you were an employee so you can actually see how each section is used; you ask them how they (the users) would improve the section they use and, if they have no input, you (as a user) make some suggestions and run it by them.

      Having a $170 million development project fail because of this kind of thing is understandable if you outshored the whole damn thing to India and there was no communication. But there's no excuse for it in a properly managed development project--and, no, I don't care what little feifdoms exist in the FBI. This is inherently a failure of the contractor to manage the project and recognize and deal with the power structure on the client side.

    2. Re:They don't know what they want by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      You'd probably think so, but I bet after the first few months of totally contradictory change requests, specification creep, and an utter lack of hard-and-fast acceptance criteria, that you'd throw up your hands, too.

      Nah, I'd identify the core and implement the parts that people agree on, while slapping people around when they start demanding things that can't coexist. The real fun involves locked door meetings with the stakeholders and a large pot of coffee (no bathroom breaks) - people really can make decisions under pressure.

      And the Boss will come down and take one look at the software, and immediately demand that something get changed.

      The trick is to make them feel good, but not actually change things.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    3. Re:They don't know what they want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work at a contracting firm that did similar jobs to this (though we never had a client that big), and our solution to the problem is simple:

      We write all the details down when doing the quote/mockups, and we stick to it.

      If the client wants changes, we finnish the original job first, wait until we get paid, and only after that will we write up a second quote and begin working on the requested changes. You still end up being forced to make stupid changes when some big shareholder from overseas bitches about something or other, but not making the change until after the job is finished makes a huge difference.

      The key is never to give in. "You want the flag for your native language on the top left instead of the top right? Sure, we can do that. But it'll be $700 and we won't do it until after everything else is running."

    4. Re:They don't know what they want by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "This is inherently a failure of the contractor to manage the project"

      The contractor *did* have their bills payed, didn't he?

      The contractor got 170M US$; the client didn't get the system he wanted. Who's the failure then?

    5. Re:They don't know what they want by demallien2 · · Score: 1

      Two words: Extreme Programming Honestly, at least that way the big boss can be dragged down every month or so, and shown something that works. And if the requirements change, it's not a problem either, you make the changes. The real problem with this type of project (actually with just about any project) is that the client only has a vague idea of what he wants. You need to give him somthing concrete that he can criticise "I don't like having the title on every screen", or, "I need a way of copying this data from here to there". People are very good at identifying what doesn't work, but knowing what does work is hard - that's why you hire experts. They get you close on the first pass, and then refine based on criticisms.... Really, anyone running a big IT project that tries to run the project in any manner that is not based on some form of Agile development methodology is just destined to fail.

    6. Re:They don't know what they want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd probably think so, but I bet after the first few months of totally contradictory change requests, specification creep, and an utter lack of hard-and-fast acceptance criteria, that you'd throw up your hands, too.

      Hmmm. Sounds just like my current job and I'm not getting $85M; where do I submit a bid :)

  85. Eliminating Software Bloat by mcrbids · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure, I think we all feel that way after reading this story. But the error could also lie with the Agency. If they are constantly asking for changes and new additions, what can the programmers do.

    It seems to me that the idea of doing software as a project is purely fiction. Everybody knows that software has bugs, everybody knows that new features are needed as the landscape changes, and everybody knows that software can be made better. So why do people insist on this flawed idea of a project?

    I've come to realize that properly specifying software in advance is unrealistic. People have a tough time thinking through what they actually need a system to do - nobody really knows what they want until they realize that what you have is not it. Then, they'll gladly whine about what's missing.

    So I've come to embrace Agile software development as my strategy.

    At my small, ASP software company, we don't sell software, we sell its utility. We manage information for school districts, and take all the work out. We do backups, upgrades, maintenance, etc. so the school district can get back to what they do best - teach.

    We do upgrades very rapid-fire - often releasing more than once per week. We have a big, huge list of stuff we'd like to do, and as we move forward, we develop whatever's the next most important thing on the list. The list comes primarily from customer whines. We charge hourly rates for development, and basically refuse to bid by the job.

    This lets us be VERY flexible as we learn more about the actual needs of the districts we work with - often changing specifications as development is happening. We don't focus on making things "bug free". We focus on fixing bugs rapidly, particularly when they cause a problem for the end user. This lets us get to what's actually needed by the customer FAST. And they LOVE IT!!!

    An interesting side-effect of this methodology is that "feature creep" basically disappears - unnecessary features get pushed off because, even if they're cool, they're not what's "needed next" and so get filtered out.

    When a change is needed, there's a simple evaluation of "is this important enough to do next?", and this evaluation filters out the crap ideas. Thus, problems like feature creep, bloat, and design by committee, effectively disappear as problems.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:Eliminating Software Bloat by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1

      Do you have an altar to Kent Beck in your men's room?

      I do, but the offerings I give it probably aren't the same as yours.

    2. Re:Eliminating Software Bloat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To build a large software system:

      1. Build a small working system, and incrementally expand it through consensual milestones. This approach may be implemented by a few competent programmers.

      2. Build a large non-working system, and throw programmers at it til it either works (rare, but rewarding) or until either money, credibility or patience runs out. This approach is much more common, and well illustrated in the Mythical Man Month book by Fred Brooks.

      A great example of 1) is Fog Creek software, if Joel Spolsky is to be believed.

      A great example of 2) is any large clueless consulting company.

      Posting Anon, sadly, since I actually do a bunch of consulting work.

  86. The basis for problem is Multi-faceted by gatesvp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Let's face it, there are lots of problems here:

    • Public Money: money with no accountability will lead to overruns and failures.
    • Project Scope: this type of project is huge, the next project is more huge. Large projects are more prone to mistakes, this type of project should consist of several short-term deliverables.
    • Security Issues: the FBI requires security clearance, when contractors are involved, this type of red-tape will cause serious issues.
    • Internal Management: the project is managed internally, but then outsourced. Any contracting firm is only accountable to deliver on its promises. If the system is failing testing then it is project management's job to ensure that promises are met. Right now, the only accoutable bodies are FBI's Internal Management, that's their job. Of course (by my first point), they're rarely accountable, so all of this money just gets flushed.

    So what's the solution? Fire the Management responsible for this project.

    Management is paid specifically for successful delivery of the project. If they do not deliver the project, they have failed. If they have not been fired, what incentive do they have to make this project succeed? If they cannot be fired, then we've found the fundamental flaw.

    You reap what you sow here. If you the taxpayers want union-protected workers who are nearly impossible to fire, then you will get workers who will not be accountable. As long as the rules in government are focused on survival then government workers will continue to CYA (cover your ass), defer decisions and blow money to protect their current position/empire.

    And don't blame the government employees here, they're playing the game. The public set the rules and employees play by the rules. People are fired for not playing by the rules. If you feel that the wrong people are (not) being fired, then request that rules of the game be changed. You reap what you sow.

  87. They just don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Large bureaucratic problems are not solved by contracting out to large, bureaucratic companies. They are solved by small to mid-sized teams working closely with the Agency to assure that 1) everything actually works and 2) the system meets the Agency's needs. Large vendors and consultancies are pressed to deliver quickly and are too scared of losing their next contract to tell the Agency "Hey! This won't have a chance in hell of working!" Smaller teams and companies, while still pressed hard on delivery, generally have the customers' best interests in mind and are willing to tell them when something is wrong.

    I can't imagine something like this costing over $100 million dollars. Yes, I realize the importance, complexity, and scale, of the system but, still, $100 million? No way! Just another example of what should be considered criminal activity by a company: bilking the government for all it can just because they can. Such a system could be easily developed for under $5 million dollars and in a year or less by a good, solid team. Cut all the bureaucracy out, focus on the customer (the FBI), and just *work*.

    This system could be a vital tool in the war on terror and in crime management in general. Contractors need to take this stuff seriously. It's about more than *just* money. It's about national defense and homeland security (yes, I know, I know). I suppose I'm ranting because I am just tired of seeing this absolute incompetence run rampant through government and I'm tired of watching company after company steal taxpayer dollars by exploiting that incompetence.

    I'm sending a letter to Director Mueller and Mr. Amzi today offering a team to do the work for a very fair and affordable price. My team won't be motivated by greed or dollar sign filled eyes but rather by a sense of national pride and a strong desire to really help in the war on crime.

    I just wish more companies acted on those things. Revamping all these agencies would be a piece of cake and a LOT more affordable.

    -- Anonymous

    1. Re:They just don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I tend to agree with this. The similarities to a project I was once involved with are astounding. Millions of dollars were spent over nearly a decade building a system that didn't work. When it became clear that the large companies that had been hired to do the work couldn't get it to work, the people responsible actually did look to a smaller company and highly skilled group of programmers to fix it. In less than a year, for less than a million dollars, a team of 3 people was able to completely rewrite the application. It functioned as it was meant to, was much more efficient than the original design, and IT WORKED. There were a few small bugs that were fixed over the next few years, but they were not critical, workflow impeding issues.

  88. For all those that bungled ... by Van+Cutter+Romney · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... they should distribute copies of "The Mythical Man-Month".

    --
    Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
  89. football reference by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

    Ooo, me, me, me Sir! Is the contractor Siemens?

    Strangely enough I've just finished building a demo flash site for a major Japanese company. It's totally flawed but I love to take the money! I don't think it will go live but, damn!, they love to waste money. I mean would you pay $2000 for someone to crop a QT movie? They did, heh heh.

    --
    spoonerize "magic trackpad"
  90. Re:Sounds like the client was the primar one at fa by danielDamage · · Score: 1

    Yeah, having been in this same situation this sounds about right. I wouldn't say they were "too scared" though. It sounds like they knew that were getting paid regardless of the outcome of the project, and it was a lot less work to simply cash in while they gave the agency enough rope to hang themselves. What reason did they have for doing the real work of execution when they could simply milk the cow?

    --
    Slices, dices, eats your lunch.
  91. Despair, Inc. Said it Best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure many of you have seen this.

    Consulting

    If you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

  92. The truth about the matter is... by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

    I heard that the new system wouldn't run the beta version of Duke Nukem Forever - so they had to scrap the whole thing and start over from scratch. But that's okay - the DNF people have just done the same (for the 8th time).

    --
    "But this one goes to 11!"
  93. I love love in the air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's nice to see a collection of /. posts containing nothing but sweet love, instead of all the bitter hatred, cursing, and anger that I typically see.

    1. Re:I love love in the air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FOAD

  94. The opposite of a good gov. contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry to be an anonymous coward but I saw this and had to post before even joining. Highways are the most annoying government projects. I have been driving on I-80 in NJ for the entirety of the summer for work, and there has been construction going on, where the only tangible change I have seen is various machines and vehicles moved from spot to spot. Stupid "This is what your tax dollar is going into" To what? None of those workers care, its a government contract, they sit there and do nothing. THere hasnt been a single time (and I get into the office at funky hours during the day) that I havent seen them sitting on the overpass eating. It's all they do, and I'm paying them to do so. WTF MATE??

  95. Retro Bullshit by fm6 · · Score: 1

    Of all the stupid ideas, using old technology to preserve information is the stupidist. By that logic, we should make the FBI carve their records in stone tablets! Except that wouldn't work either, since stone tablets be destroyed or misplaced, just as paper can be shredded, have coffee spilled on it, or just misfiled. It is, in fact, much easier to hide an incriminating record in a warehouse full of cardboard boxes than it is to hide an electronic record in a database.

    If you want to preserve records, you need to put some sort of system in place that makes it hard to destroy or lose them. That's true no matter how primitive your record system is. In fact, technology is your friend. You might, for example, simply require that ever record have a copy filed with an outside authority. Which is absurdly expensive for paper records, but trivial for electronic ones.

    Everybody has too much faith in paper. Right now, California is going through a big hassle because of a law that requires a paper copy of every ballot. As if nobody ever fixed an election based on paper ballots!

  96. Um, yeah, it's called "matching" by Howzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How long have you worked in journalism, Susan?

    If someone else does a story, especially a big story like yours, a magazine/newspaper has two options:

    1. Reprint your story. Credit you. Pay your organisation money. Look, to their readers, like schmucks because they missed a big story.

    Or, and here's what usually happens:

    2. Match the story. Re-interview the same sources. Go over the same ground. And then publish a very similar story. This way you not only VERIFY that the original story is true and well reported, but you appear to your readers as if you're out there getting the news.

    Shoddy lazy journalism? No. That would have been uncritically reprinting your original story.

    They just "matched" it. That's the industry term. As a stringer for many years (a "stringer" is a type of freelance journalist) I was called by editors many, many times to "match" stories.

    You've worked in journalism for, what, a week now? Welcome to the industry. You may want to check with some people in your organisation who've been around the block a few times before firing off embarrassing (to you) letters to the Post Ombudsman.

    1. Re:Um, yeah, it's called "matching" by orac2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, Susan is my boss, but I'm going to assume you paid attention to where I indicated that in my original post, and are addressing your comments rhetorically. For the record Susan's been in journalism for decades, is a frequent judge for journalism awards, lectured at NYU's journalism school, etc, etc., and been the EIC of Spectrum for over six years. So drop the patronizing smarm. Finding your own angle on a story that's going around is one thing: failing to give adequate attribution is another, and is violation of, e.g., the Washington Post's ethics policy:

      Attribution of material from other newspapers and other media must be total. ... It is the policy of this newspaper to give credit to other publications that develop exclusive stories worthy of coverage by The Post.

      Certainly, for example, digging up Matthew Patton was an element of the VCF story that was exclusive to Spectrum's coverage, as Patton had not appeared in other media outlets before or since Spectrum's coverage until today.

      Even when publications are chasing the same story, when one publication gets something unique it is normal to see lines such as "As first reported in the New York Times..." etc in stories in other outlets. A similar attribution in passing in the text was all that would have been required: instead the only attempt at attribution by the Post article is buried in the credits list for the accompanying timeline graphic, where the "Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers" is credited as a source, which is a) insufficient and b) wrong (the source was "IEEE Spectrum Magazine". Crediting the IEEE is like crediting General Electric for information taken from a "Today Show" segment.)

      As a concrete example, let's look at the recent Sony-BMG DRM rootkit controversy. I did a story on that, interviewing many of the people involved, people who got interviewed by a lot of media outlets at the same time, but when I found a nugget that had been exclusivey reported by one other news outlet--a video of a DHS offcial talking to a local buisiness group about the issue--I gave credit where credit where was due. To the Washington Post in fact: "One party that cares is the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which includes cybersecurity as part of its portfolio. On 10 November, as reported by the Washington Post, Stewart Baker, assistant secretary for homeland security, made a pointed reference to the Sony BMG protection system..." [Emphasis added]

      Speaking personally as someone who hires freelancers, and who's been a staff journalist and editor for somewhat more than a week myself, if your post is indicative of your grasp of the ethical standards of journalism, you can be sure this is one editor who wouldn't call on your abilities as a stringer, or anything else.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    2. Re:Um, yeah, it's called "matching" by BroncoInCalifornia · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Shoddy lazy journalism? No. That would have been uncritically reprinting your original story.

      They just "matched" it. That's the industry term. As a stringer for many years (a "stringer" is a type of freelance journalist) I was called by editors many, many times to "match" stories.

      You've worked in journalism for, what, a week now? Welcome to the industry. You may want to check with some people in your organisation who've been around the block a few times before firing off embarrassing (to you) letters to the Post Ombudsman.



      You help me understand why the mainstream press is in such bad shape these days. Shoddy Lazy Journalism is accepted as standard industry practice.

      --

      Religion is the main cause of atheism.

    3. Re:Um, yeah, it's called "matching" by Howzer · · Score: 1

      Speaking personally as someone who hires freelancers, and who's been a staff journalist and editor for somewhat more than a week myself, if your post is indicative of your grasp of the ethical standards of journalism, you can be sure this is one editor who wouldn't call on your abilities as a stringer, or anything else.

      LOL! Nice shot! If I had needed the work at the time, I'd even have been a little hurt by that.

      If even half of the additional points you raise were true, then it changes the focus somewhat. In a letter to the Post Ombudsman about, what, journalistic laziness, your boss, how do I put this delicately, left some things out?

      Pot. Kettle. Black.

  97. Crime Record Management Software? Who? Where? by littlewink · · Score: 1
    Anyone here know of vendors of criminal RMS (Records Management Software)? Requirements:
    • municipal police department (millions of citizens)
    • thousands of incidents per day, of which hundreds are
    • criminal offenses (100s per day) each offense consisting of data on
      1. suspects
      2. witnesses
      3. victims
      4. officers
      5. leads
      6. automobiles, boats, other vehicles (stolen, lost, used in crime, etc.)
      7. goods, securities, monies, etc. (stolen, lost, etc.)
      8. narrative descriptions from the above of what happened
      9. later supplementary narrative of investigation
    • thousands of officers assigned
    • department organized by divisions, beats, special squads,etc. (which are periodically reorganized)
    • legal geographic management desired (so PD knows if call is inside/outside legal jurisdiction area)
    • management reports desired
    • Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) standard statistics reporting mandatory
    • National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) if possible
    • tying into the above, audit trail of changes & who made them, security management of data (e.g., so suspeneded employess can't see data, only certain employees can see confidential, narcotics data, etc., employees can't snoop other employees' personal data, etc.)
    • tracking of towed vehicles, impounded goods
    • tracking of impounded evidence for cases
    • tracking of evidence through criminal laboratory processing, including outside state or federal (FBI) processing
    • interchange of data with other governmental entities (e.g., FBI, BATF, etc.) desirable personnel management
    The last item is optional.

    Does anyone know of any vendors selling such solutions? My experience has been that this is usually customized, but many police departments have a serious need.

  98. The FBI Software Upgrade That Wasn't by WeeBit · · Score: 1

    I didn't see anywhere that they accepted fixes on the software that was buggy to try to solve the problems they were having. FBI never does things cheaply. A good network of Linux boxes with simple software programming done at a fraction of the cost would of solved all of their problems. Why won't the FBI listen to us slashdotters? We know what's best for them. :)

  99. oh shit by BlackShirt · · Score: 1

    that is bad news as some heads start to roll.

    but it will not help in getting FBI to achieve paperless office & be more productive.

  100. Flawless coders?? by tlh1005 · · Score: 1

    -----
    'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"
    -----

    If it's a month before delivery and you don't have ANY bugs to fix then you didn't implement enough features or you over scheduled your milestones :-)

  101. Oblig. InfoWorld link to help out, too by PCM2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'd just like to point out that InfoWorld covered this story extensively last year.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  102. crap by BlackShirt · · Score: 1

    who the hell moderates these things up?

  103. bug priorities by jesterzog · · Score: 1

    If you give the client the option between tweaking a template to a report, and tweaking the queries that feed the damn report so it runs 10% faster, the client will ask you to first make it pretty, then worry about the queries. If you dare ask them why, they will give you a b.s. explanation that it is all about perception. That the pretty page looks more "professional" and it looks like more work and care was put into it.

    I know this is a nitpick -- I fully agree that clients often don't appreciate how serious some bugs are, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable for a client to want to prioritise the look of a report over making the query 10% faster. Really it'd come down to how critical the exact-ness of the template is. If it's a government organisation, for instance, there might be legislation in place that says it has to be a certain format or a law's being broken. Or it might just be an eyesore to look at. You really can't know without talking to the customer or reading the specs (if they've been well authored).

    If the query was returning the wrong data, or if it took orders of magnitude longer to run than it needed to, it'd definitely be worth looking at first as a serious bug. Really though, if it's a report that a user has to sit and wait for anyway, 10% longer running time behind their other tasks probably won't have nearly as much impact on their work day as having to use a report that looks different from how they need it to look. If it's a report that runs nearly instantaneously, 10% difference is nothing anyway.

  104. Right - and if you can come in on Sunday... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be great.

    Remember to fill out your SPR reports...

  105. Government Inefficiency - Wrong point of reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it typical that 'Inefficiency' is just a smoke screen for funneling huge amounts of cash into 'undocumented' government projects?

    To paraphrase a line from the X-Files, do you really think the government pays $750 for a hammer?

    Inefficiency assumes that the goal was to complete a working system.

    The project efficiently succeeded in making millions of tax dollars vanish.

    Obviously those millions were not sufficient, and additional funding will be needed to make such a project a success. Congress will have to double the IT budget for the FBI if they ever want they system to get past the Beta stage. Triple the budget for getting to run version 1.0.

  106. FBI Agent Writes Own Database, Becomes CIO by littlewink · · Score: 2, Informative
    While it sounds like a success story for FBI agent Depew, the IEEE Article about the VCF system underscores two gaping problems in the FBI's approach to IT:
    "Unfortunately, the FBI couldn't provide him with a database program that would help organize the information, so Depew wrote one himself.
    - Here we have an FBI agent with so little investigative work to do and so much time on his hands that he can write a DBMS! Why wasn't he prosecuting crimes and chasing the BGs? If indeed there was no software product available on the market, at worst he could have paid a programmer to do the job. This was a bored FBI agent who didn't want to do FBI work - he wanted to write software. But that's not his job! Depew should have been fired for writing a DBMS instead of doing investigative work. That's why specializations exists and that's why the FBI has software specialists.

    Since Depew was skilled enought to write his own PC -based DBMS, the FBI decided that he should be put in charge of a multi-million dollar project. This also was a SNAFU. Writing a PC program doesn't qualify you to manage a huge software project.

    One of the least known problems in law enforcement is keeping officers and agents focused on their work. They'd much rather take classes in programming, set up websites, build Access databases for the Captain, or in general do anything rather than get out on the street and do policing or legal work. The problem is, no matter what they do, they get the same pay. Policing or tracking down leads requires footwork and is physically demanding, so most veteran agents prefer a desk job.

  107. Here's some "Reality-based" food for thought... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    Here's an even more original story an actual investigative journalist might try a run at (assuming there are truly anymore employed at America's newspapers today???):

    Find the personnel roster of the various organizations (including NYC Emergency Operations Center) from the former World Trade Center Building #7, and compare it to the personnel roster from S.A.I.C.

    Notice any duplicate names popping up???? "Coincidence" -- it's called a money transfer - seemingly yet another crappy government job, but easy money.....

  108. Insightful? by typidemon · · Score: 1

    The trouble with project managers (and security people) is that they have a checklist mentality.
    PM: Have you done this as yet.
    You: No, there is no need for it
    PM: But I need to get it checked off on my plan
    You: It shouldn't be on the plan in the first place
    PM: But it is on the plan, so I need to get it checked off. When are you going to do it.

    Seeing you are talking directly to the project manager, I can only assume that for some reason you're a senior developer.

    If you sit down to program x and y makes more logical sense, you need to go talk to your project advisor before you code y, not after. Even worse, the fact that x wasn't needed at all, and you didn't approach your project manager.

    If a product continually gets the development process logic messed up, or the basic design of a product contains stuff that is un-needed, and you only tell the PM after you've fixed it, you are actually doing yourself a disservice and creating more work for yourself.

    I mean, basically you are creating and environment where the Project Manager, and thus the reset of the stakeholders, are constantly playing catch up to developers as they hack and change things on the fly. That kind of behaviour anywhere else in business would be regarded, at best, as unprofessional.

  109. Aha! by stunt_penguin · · Score: 2, Funny

    'A month before delivery, you don't have SPRs,' Azmi said. 'You're making things pretty. . . . You're changing colors.'"

    So that is what Microsoft are doing with Vista. We should have known!

    --
    When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
  110. Here's Why They Won't. by littlewink · · Score: 1
    After some thought I have concluded that the wiki idea has no advantage over the usual set of input/display forms over HTTP with an underlying relational database. One example mismatch: the wiki has no particular underlying structure so it won't suffice for typical recordkeeping, e.g., Uniform Crime Reporting, which requires gathering offenses by UCR code (e.g., assault, homicide, manslaughter, etc.). A relational database easily handles that.

    This isn't to say that you couldn't develop a wiki over an RDBMS. It's just that, if you do, then there's no difference between the two (wiki vs [HTTP forms]).

  111. Mod Parent Up n/t by thedanyes · · Score: 0

    This is a hugely insightful post IMO.

  112. It isn't informative either ... by typidemon · · Score: 1

    It's an example of unprofessionalism.

  113. Re:Government Inefficiency by sasdrtx · · Score: 1

    "What the government does, the government fucks up." ... I thought this was an Abbie Hoffman quote, but I haven't been able to find it. The more you find out about any government operation, the more you see how true that is.

    btw, I corrected the spelling of "Inefficiency".

    --
    Most people don't even think inside the box.
  114. Third time's a charm by bobinorlando · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The failure of a effort with the scope of an enterprise-wide project like this in an organization that is clearly "immature" from a project management, technology-management, and IT systems, processes and development standpoint should surprise no one. Never mind achieving enterprise application integration.

    Every Fortune 1000 company has hurtled down this obstacle course and has the scars to prove it. It is an expensive journey, but there doesn't seem to be any way around it. As some say, "Pay now or pay later." Multiple iterations of large projects are the norm, not the exception and I believe are an inevitable learning curve that can't be avoided - a rite of passage so to speak. The only disconnect in the FBI's project was thinking that it could be done right the first time at any cost or in any timeframe.

    Why? Because half the issues are cultural and derive from the dynamics of the organization which needed to change after 9/11. No vendor or project manager or JAD team can solve for that - they were caught in the middle of a paradigm and culture shift that they had no control over and may not even have been fully aware of or able to articulate and document. The fact that their JAD sessions lasted 6 months is surely proof enough that the organization wasn't ready to talk to IT developers.

    Setting aside the lapses in personal competence (e.g. great effort to collect trinkets and souvenirs for scrapbooks while putting a value judgement on valid criticism and calling it "disruptive"), at the end of the day, you can't design what you can't conceive. They didn't know what they didn't know. Now, somewhat older and wiser, perhaps they know quite a bit more, but I doubt they (the FBI organization) know enough to get it right.

    One of the "graybeards" in the IEEE article predicts it will be 2010 or 2011. But that will only be the second time. I say it will be more like 2015 for a third try before they will really know with any confidence what they actually knew about the hijackers before 9/11 and have enterprise application systems that are world class and interoperable both within the FBI and externally with other intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

  115. Blogs + Google = 90% solution by swm · · Score: 1

    They should have the agents keep blogs,
    put it all on their internal web,
    and let Google search it for them.

    Not perfect, but it would be quick, cheap, and probably get them 90% of what they need.