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Rob Levin, lilo of FreeNode, Passes
sneak was the first of many to tell us of the death of Rob Levin, known as lilo, the head of FreeNode and of its parent organization, PDPC. A transcript from the channel: ".:17:18:40:. [freenode] -christel(i=christel@freenode/staff/gentoo.christe l)-
[Global Notice] On the 12th September Rob Levin, known to many as Freenode's
lilo, was hit by a car while riding his bike. He suffered head injuries and
passed away in hospital on the 16th. For more information please visit
#freenode-announce
17:19:39==> Topic for #freenode-announce: Together with the PDPC board we are
currently preparing a general announcement, please also feel assured that we will
continue working with PDPC to ensure continuous service on freenode, in line with Rob's
mission." Richard Hartmann writes, I just wanted to add that we of FreeNode will create a condolence book. All wellwishes can be sent to condolences@freenode.net."
[Global Notice] On the 12th September Rob Levin, known to many as Freenode's
lilo, was hit by a car while riding his bike. He suffered head injuries and
passed away in hospital on the 16th. For more information please visit
#freenode-announce
17:19:39==> Topic for #freenode-announce: Together with the PDPC board we are
currently preparing a general announcement, please also feel assured that we will
continue working with PDPC to ensure continuous service on freenode, in line with Rob's
mission." Richard Hartmann writes, I just wanted to add that we of FreeNode will create a condolence book. All wellwishes can be sent to condolences@freenode.net."
RIP Rob Levin.
Video Production Support
This is obviously a tragedy for his family, friends, colleagues and a complete shock to everyone who has heard of him, but once the dust has settled, it will be interesting to see how PDPC and Freenode will continue to be run.
neuro at well dot com (when I post, it's my opinions, no-one elses)
Pity, he seemed like a nice guy...
-- All your booze are belong to us.
I only had very few interactions with Lilo, but he was always friendly and polite when I did. I am a long time user of FreeNode and a long time Wikipedian. The network has been invaluable to our community, and while of course a project like FreeNode is very much collaborative, I think he personally represented many of the core values that make it a great place for open source and free content projects. This is a very sad day. May he idle in peace. :-(
i just ran out of mod points. i wish i had them now.
This is a really sad day for freenode. He provided such a good service to all of us. :-(
Same here.
I got my start on Freenode many, many years ago, and now have been involved with dozens, possibly hundreds of projects, all on freenode. I've talked with Lilo many times and have never had a bad experience. One of the kindest and most helpful people I've ever met.
My Condolences go out to his family.
RIP lilo
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
I can't believe this garbage was modded informative. To think my mod points expired today and I can't shoot this down myself...
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Does anyone know of there is any known connection to his stalker? Or was it just a plain accident?
My condolences to his family. He worked hard for what we have, right or wrong, and we should respect that and be thankful for what he has left us.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
I know how you feel, but don't feed the trolls.
That's the only response I can think of. Sorry.
christel just posted the following in #freenode-announce
christel> Ok, first off, this is not a hoax
christel> Rob was riding his bike on tuesday when he was hit by a car, he has spent the last few days at the neuro trauma ICU at a local hospital
christel> where he has been in a coma
christel> the news reached us this morning that Rob passed away early today
christel> Rob is survived by wife Debbie and son Benjamin
christel> and we ask that you all respect their privacy at this difficult time
christel> Robs funeral is most likely to be monday afternoon, although we have yet to get confirmation as Debs is waiting to hear from the MEs office that it can go ahead as planned
christel> and for those local, wishing to show their respects at his funeral, we ask that you email staff@freenode.net and we will try direct you as we can
christel> We will take some questions now and try answer them in channel, it would be appreciated if those with questions message beu, and we will answer on channel
christel> thank you
christel> the first question we've had is "What happens to freenode?"
beu> to answer the "who verified this?" question, members of freenode staff have been in contact with Rob's family over the past few days
christel> it is Debs wishes that freenode keeps running as close to normal as possible, and we will be working with the PDPC board to ensure that the network keeps running
beu> we are currently formulating an announcement and hope to have it online soon, in addition to an online "book of condolences"
christel> it has also been asked why lilos client is still connected
christel> i am sure you will all agree that at this point in time, we feel uncomfortable killing his client and find the mere idea rather morbid
christel> Robs nicknames will be quarantined to prevent abuse.
christel> A lot of people have asked how they can help
christel> Debs requests has been that people who knew Rob could donate to PDPC in his memory, or those wishing to make a more general contribution could give something to a bicycle safety campaign in their area.
Need a Wiki? Check out DokuWiki
Incredibly tasteless at a time like this. Please mod this jerk down.
The first time I read the headline I was confused about what it meant. Was there some sort of position he turned down? Did he quit an important job?
I've always despised death euphamisms, though. Trying to tone the tragedy down doesn't make it any easier to deal with for friends, families, or looker-ons. It also takes away from the importance of the death itself.
He's dead. The man was killed in an auto accident. It's a sad, tragic ending, but it's the truth.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I would estimate that Freenode was responsible for more realtime communication between developers and between users/support than any other single medium, and as such it was and is a major asset to the open source movement. It has undoubtedly helped make many projects much better than would have otherwise been possible/workable.
As a legacy, I'd say that's a pretty good one to leave.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Have only met lilo a couple of times in IRC, and don't recall speaking to him, but as a fellow IRCer, RIP
Enough with the euphemisms, already. Just say that he died. "Passing" is something you do with yesterday's lunch shortly after you've eaten today's.
http://outcampaign.org/
RIP man :'(
...that I bagged on him a few times for accidentally tripping on a power cord, thus splitting the network (whether this actually happened is beyond me). I'm also terrified of riding my bike now.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
I've got no problem with friends and family members using passive, religiously charged euphemisms when discussing death. If people find it easier to talk about their sister having "passed," that's fine by me.
But when it comes to journalism (or the slashdot equivalent), it comes off as silly at best and offensive at worst.
Rob Levin didn't pass. He didn't "Pass", pass on, nor pass away. He DIED, and he was KILLED. This isn't just death, but death in a horrible, violent, disturbing way.
Getting your head smashed in by an automobile and living for painful hours in a hospital critical care ward isn't gentle. It's horrible, and cruel, and ugly. Using gentle words to describe it doesn't make it any less so. It does us all a disservice by belittling the tragedy of what has actually happened.
As a bike rider myself the first thing I thought of was the death in March of Richard Rauch.
This is sad news. My sympathies to his family.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Rest in peace.
He leaves the legacy of being a man who started and ran the IRC network that is by far the most popular network for free software developer communication, and an invaluable asset to the entire community. We thank him for his contributions, and offer our deepest condolances to the friends and family.
toresbe
This is truely sad. This person was very committed to keeping freenode running. Best of wishes to his family
Car drivers, especially in the United States, have absolutely 0 regard for bike riders. A professor did an interesting study about how close cars come to bikers when they wear helmets versus when they don't. Not to mention in San Francisco they recently delayed a resolution that would build bike paths across the city so that bike riders didn't have to deal with ignorant SUV driving assholes too busy talking on their phone to notice a bike rider. /Rant
Sorry for the strong language, but as a bike rider car drivers in America for the most part just totally piss me off. I have to spend my tax money attacking some random oil rich country so you can drive your SUVs, but you get all in a tizzy when I want a bike path so I don't have to worry about you hitting me even though I have as much a right to the road as you do.
Ignorant car drivers disgust me.
Monstar L
WTF?
I don't see any informations on the circumstances of the accident, nor what happened to the car's driver. For all we know it could've been a mechanical issue with the car, or the driver didn't pay enough attention and is in jail, or anything.
I know this is slashdot, but how about not being stupid and judgemental just for once?
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
User Rob Levin.
As the cars get bigger, bike riding is scarier but remains my only convenient daily exercise.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Or the fault of the cyclist... It happens sometimes.
My condolences go out to his family. Unfortunately, it appears that he was not wearing a helmet while riding his bicycle. I wonder if a charity for bicycle safety will start in his name
"Hello 911? I just tried to toast some bread, and the toaster grew an arm and stabbed me in the face!"
May Rob smile down on us from Heaven.
While Rob may be gone, Freenode will live on. Of course, Freenode won't be the same, but we will get by. He was the most thoughtful admins I have ever known.
Sad day for his survivors and a sad day for Freenode. He will be missed.
But their deeds shall not be forgotten.
I spoke to lilo several times a few years ago, just around the time freenode started. My condolences to his family.
almost everyone had a chance to converse ..
with him in various circumstances.
he will be missed.
goodbye old chap
For biker fans like myself: ALLWAYS wear an helmet! It isn't "cool" not to wear one when riding a bike, its plain out stupid. I know this sounds harsh, but after I read that he never bothered to put on an helmet I think different about this whole accident. However, despite my attitude regards to that I do wish his family strength and wisdom.
It's not just the drivers. Many roads seem to have been created with no real thought for cyclists. While this is particularly true in big cities (like SF, where the roads are insane for anyone traveling on them), even nice crunchy places like Santa Cruz make bicycle commuting a risky proposition, because they don't see cyclist-friendly roads to be a high enough priority. I can't tell you how many times I've nearly been annihilated because on-street parking forces me almost into the auto lane. Potholes, poorly-designed merge and exit lanes, and fast traffic signals turn a ride to work into a dangerous proposition.
Until there are more people commuting in bikes rather than cars, I don't see the situation changing for the better.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Yeah, when people make jokes about September 11 it is "dealing with the situation" or whatever. When people make jokes about this guy they are just trolling. Granted the few jokes made are bad taste at best, but so were many of the September 11 jokes.
Too bad he wasn't taking performance enhancing drugs.
Did anybody remember to delete all his child porn?
Personally, I liked grub better anyway.
Not to be too off-topic, I ran into a truck on a bicycle some years ago, on a long, straight road in the summer, with the dark brown UPS truck parked partly on the road in the shade, at noon, under a brown-leaved tree with brown vegetation all around in a boring, rather featureless landscape. Were it not for the helmet, I'd have suffered more than just a mild concussion that knocked me unconscious for apparently twenty minutes. Yes, I was a damn fool who should have paid more attention to the road on that day instead of fiddling with a bag I had been carrying from a handlebar, but the lesson holds for all bicyclists under all circumstances.
It is to be hoped that Mr. Levin had been wearing a helmet. In any case, this death was tragic. :(
I guess the point of this post is just to remind you that if you ride a bicycle, please do wear a helmet, no matter how annoying you may find it at first. A decent helmet is not expensive, will allow good air circulation, and becomes second nature after a while. Even if you're struck by a car, the helmet might make the difference between permanent head injury or full recovery.
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
Sure is always tragic when someone dies and in lilo's case I'm sure its a great loss as I have the feeling he did do great things and meant well.
On the other hand I can now finally remove my lilo ignore on freenode as he won't be able to do those nasty irritating broadcasts (or whatever they are called) again.
I have to say that this also creates an obscure title (for those not familiar with US euphemism).
I thought it was referring to some sort of network bootstrapping using freenode. You soon realise the error, but then why have a title. "Died" is surely not offensive?
The bicycle, not the automobile, is the most popular vehicle in the world. http://www.princeton.edu/~ina/maps/transportation. html
Who's with me?
I hope the police are, so they can arrest you. What's missing in all of this are the details. Maybe Rob went down an embankment that was too steep and his brakes failed, causing him to veer into oncoming traffic causing an unavoidable accident for the unfortunate motorist who happened to be there. Perhaps Rob wasn't wearing a bicycle helmet, further complicating any head trauma. Maybe he was wearing dark clothing and cycling at night without any lights or reflective gear.
It's amazing that we live in an age where we have access to computers and, through that, to some of the world's best accumulated wisdom and knowledge. And yet there are still some shits like you who want to pick up the pitchforks and torches to arrange a lynch mob even when you likely don't possess any detailed information on the circumstances. But even if you were there and know everything firsthand, I still find your reaction a little too stuck in the dark ages.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
As gas prices rise I have hope that bicycling will get increasing positive attention from people who would otherwise not have considered us cyclists.
RIP lilo. You will be missed and I wish your family all the best.
"A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing." - Alan Perlis
I had a friend who died at a young age from a terminal disease, he was in his early 20's.
His IRC client stayed signed on for about 6 months. Everyone knew he was dead, but we kept him oped in the channel. It was a bit freaky, but it was good having him around in spirit.
Not sure what happened, I guess his shell account was deactivated... and his client was gone.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
I, like many thousands, have had the pleasure of working with Rob. I used to run #maestro to support software I co-authored at JPL, and thanks to Rob taking care of numerous problems, the support channel works beautifully, finally evolving into what is now #space.
I know our channel would not have been a success without Rob's patience and wisdom, and I enjoyed several really great discussions with the man. I had always been hoping to take him out for a beer someday... guess we should do things like that sooner rather than later.
Rob really believed in the work he was doing, and I think that that has really showed because freenode, while not perfect, is still a very productive place for develoment and support of FOSS. I hope that his dreams continue on long after today, I know that is what he would have wanted. We're going to miss you, Rob.
It was a hit-and-run, you insensitive clod.
Thanks lilo for your work on freenode, you made many open source projects possible and brought together thousands of people. My condolances go out to his friends and relatives, I feel sorry for your loss.
This sig is intentionally left blank
I hope the perpetrator is found, and forced to live the remainder of their life with the shame of being a murderer and a coward.
Fleeing the scene is detestable. Death is too easy for this one.
We're not all cyclists, I know, but we're all geeks, we all use the roads, and of course nobody likes to see comrades die under any circumstances. I thought it would be appropriate to point out some cycling related tips to go along with the parent's "always wear a helmet" statement.
USE LIGHTS: Lights on your bike are to BE SEEN, even in daylight. Use them front and back, flashing. Many drivers subconsciously associate flashing lights with cars, and hence they will factor you into their driving logic, which in some cases means they'll notice you at all when they otherwise wouldn't have.
Back Roads: One thing about biking is that you can take back roads which are more direct but have slower speed limits, since you won't be hitting that 50mph expressway speed limit anyways. This puts you around far fewer cars which are also going slower, and often in neighborhoods where people are more aware things other than cars. I know two great sites to find bike routes: www.bikely.com and www.motionbased.com
Use Mirrors: There are a variety of mirrors, mostly cheap. You want a mirror which lets you see behind you without moving your head so that you don't swerve, even slightly, while glancing. One popular mirror which can be purchased off eBay for very ~$23 is the Italian Racing Mirror which mounts on end of the drop handlebars of a road bike.
Know the Rules of the Road: Other people in this thread have pointed out that it doesn't require a license to ride a bike in the street. All of us, even we cyclists, have been pissed off by somebody on a bike who was doing something stupid. The laws may be different in each state, but sensibility isn't. If you ride a bicycle, or drive a car, take even just a minute to skim over this link: CHP - Bicycle Riding. (I include drivers too because they probably don't know that "Bicycle riders and automobile drivers follow the same rules and have the same rights.")
Of course, this being the internet, there are plenty great resources to find information about cycling related stuff, including commuting, safety, etc.. bikeforums.net is a fantastic place to start.
BTW I don't agree with the GP, I just don't think "to err is human" applies here.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I'd rather 50 child rapists go free than one person be wrongfully arrested. That is all.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Missing attribution. Does this mean copyright infringment? Sheesh... at least he could have said Tennyson wrote it!
By your logic, any vehicle on the road is fail safe. Car breaks? Roll to a stop at the side of the road.
I've had the front tire on my bike blow out on me. Its not pretty, and it certaintly isn't fail-safe. Luckily for me, it wasn't on a road, it was on a bike path around a lake, so I didn't have to worry about being hit by a car.
And while you're right that MOST drivers don't care about cyclists, there are more than a few cyclists that ALSO need an attitude adjustment -- you're on a public road, follow the laws. That means you STOP at stoplights and stopsigns. You signal before you turn. You yield when you need to. To be has cold hearted as you, this needs to be fixed, and if it takes ruining some dumbass cyclist's life, then that's fine with me.
That said - in this case, if it was a hit and run, then hold the driver responsible for the hit and run. We have laws, and courts. We don't need lynch mobs, we have lawyers for that.
Got a link to something saying (verifiably) that it was a hit-and-run?
In any case, maybe if you weren't so dead set against CCTV cameras on busy city streets you'd have the guy's number plate. There have been 10 hit-and-run RTAs in the city where I stay, and every single one has been traced through CCTV footage. I'd say that was a net win.
You know, I've had many disagreements with lilo over the years with regard to my time as staff on Freenode, a PDPC board member, and with my work on WOPN/Freenode Radio a while back. While I disagreed with a lot of his views, I wouldn't ever have wished something this tragic upon him and his family. I wish his wife and his son all the best, and hope they're able to get through this tough time. Agree or disagree with the man, I don't think anyone could say his impact on the free software community was insignificant. I hope he's found peace, and can say that he'll be missed even by many of those who disagreed with him.
christel ok, im going to go +m for a moment
christel and we will try answer some of the questions you've asked after a minute of silence
christel Ok, first off, this is not a hoax
christel Rob was riding his bike on tuesday when he was hit by a car, he has spent the last few days at the neuro trauma ICU at a local hospital
christel where he has been in a coma
christel the news reached us this morning that Rob passed away early today
beu to repeat for those just joining us, this sadly is not a hoax; Rob was riding his bike on tuesday when he was hit by a car, he has spent the last few days at the neuro trauma ICU at a local hospital... news reached us this morning that Rob passed away early today
christel Rob is survived by wife Debbie and son Benjamin
christel and we ask that you all respect their privacy at this difficult time
christel Robs funeral is most likely to be monday afternoon, although we have yet to get confirmation as Debs is waiting to hear from the MEs office that it can go ahead as planned
christel and for those local, wishing to show their respects at his funeral, we ask that you email staff@freenode.net and we will try direct you as we can
christel We will take some questions now and try answer them in channel, it would be appreciated if those with questions message beu, and we will answer on channel
christel thank you
christel the first question we've had is "What happens to freenode?"
beu to answer the "who verified this?" question, members of freenode staff have been in contact with Rob's family over the past few days
christel it is Debs wishes that freenode keeps running as close to normal as possible, and we will be working with the PDPC board to ensure that the network keeps running
beu we are currently formulating an announcement and hope to have it online soon, in addition to an online "book of condolences"
christel it has also been asked why lilos client is still connected
christel i am sure you will all agree that at this point in time, we feel uncomfortable killing his client and find the mere idea rather morbid
christel Robs nicknames will be quarantined to prevent abuse.
christel A lot of people have asked how they can help
christel Debs requests has been that people who knew Rob could donate to PDPC in his memory, or those wishing to make a more general contribution could give something to a bicycle safety campaign in their area.
beu this question is cropping up a *lot*: yes, sadly rob did indeed pass away this morning, no, this is not a hoax
christel we will also try to coordinate so that we can get some things together for Debs and Benjamin, but at this point in time she has no particular wishes in that regard. Those wishing to help his family however, are encouraged to get in touch with us per email (again staff@freenode.net) and we will try connect you with those in the area that are coordinating support.
christel "Should lilo's fellow Jews sit shiva for 30 days as is tradition?"
christel I am not jewish, and I dont know much about jewish traditions, so i will leave that up to each and every one of you individually
christel "Where, as in city and state, would the funeral be?
christel Rob lived in Houston, Texas and the funeral will be held there
christel "was lilo wearing a helmet and was the car driver responsible? if they are responsible will they be charged?"
christel lilo was not wearing a helmet, we are unsure at this point about what will happen wrt the driver of the car
beu we are working on making a formal announcement on http://freenode.net/, and are currently setting up an online "book of condolences". our current eta is: soon.
christel from what we know, it was a hit and run
christel and the driver has not yet been found
beu Rob passed away on the morning (texas time) of Saturday 16th 2006
christel Any other questions?
beu where Rob is Rob Levin, who most of us knew as lilo
christel I am recieving a lot of priv messages, and I am afra
http://www.mostlystupid.com
What makes you think he was running red lights and stop signs? BTW, turns need not be turned on a bike if both hands are necessary for the safe operation of the bike. That's the legal wording in most states, I believe. I frequently find that both hands are necessary for the safe operation of my bike when approaching a corner.
I suppose you never exceed the speed limit on public roads since you hold traffic law in such high regard?
I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
It works out pretty well in Japan---the roads, especially in Tokyo, are dense and covered with parked cars, like NYC, and about as good (bad) for biking as NYC. So the standard is that bikers ride on the sidewalks. It's a bit slower, since they have to go at a speed where they can avoid pedestrians, but it's significantly safer: Bike/car collisions can be fatal, while bike/pedestrian collisions rarely even cause serious injury.
I suppose the ideal would be an Amsterdam-style network of separate roads for bikes, complete with their own traffic signals, but given a lack of infrastructure, Tokyo's solution seems more prudent than the standard U.S. solution of bikes riding on the street.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Nothing, he was replaced by grub.
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
I think part of the problem drivers have with cyclists is precisely that a lot of cyclists don't follow the rules, and lack common courtesy. It seems that bicyclists seem to think they deserve special treatment on the road as well. Recently I was travelling down a main street in a car with a friend, that had major construction and was limited to one lane each way. A rather narrow lane. We get stuck behind a guy on a bicycle doing no more than 10 mph. We had no room to pass him. The result of this was my friend and I, and at least 10 other cars being held up by this inconsiderant idiot. Granted, that's one example, and not all bicyclists are like that, nor should judgement of all bicyclists be based on one experience, but that is merely one example. I can't count how many times I've been driving down the parkway, stuck behind a group of cyclists who are riding 4-5 wide, at 5-10 mph below the speed limit, taking up the entire lane with no room to pass (unless you illegally want to cross lanes into oncoming traffic), when there is a path along the parkway meant specifically for biking.
The point is, if you're going to use the road, be it in a car or on a bicycle, obey the rules and use common courtesy. If you're unable to pedal hard enough to go the speed limit, get off the road and use the designated bike paths or use the side of the road, not the middle of the lane. And don't get pissed when I honk my horn at you because you're holding up traffic by being an idiot.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Anyone remember the dilemma of "what if Linus Torvalds gets hit by a bus"? I do, and I'm sure pissed off that we wasted all our resources on one guy. Holding together a big chunk of the FOSS comms infrastructure is a very important task, and I want to tell myself that if we had only worried about lilo instead, maybe this wouldn't have happened.
I feel a really strange disconnect about this whole event. One aspect that hits me is the fact that I've never met this guy (online or off), and I've only ever read about him online. It's really odd to think that your only knowledge of a real-life person is through second-hand ASCII flying around the net, and suddenly they're gone.
The other aspect I feel is that of a math/computer person. We generally feel that everything has a perfect solution, and we can prevent failure by designing our systems correctly. Then something like this comes along, and it really just seems kind of strange in comparison. If only we could write an exception to handle a ton of steel hurtling at a person.
Not to go outside. And there are bears out there. Out here at least. Seems like about once a day during the summer a pedestrian or biker gets hit by a car out here. The drivers of the cars have no intention of slowing down (Assuming they see the guy on the bike in the first place) and the guys on the bikes have no intention of moving over. There needs to be a lot more on the driver's test about motor vehicle interaction with bicycle traffic and bicycle interaction with motor vehicle traffic. I think that might help prevent a lot of deaths each year.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I've only had the luck to talk to him once, he was a simpatic guy, running an ambicious project even..
Really sad what happened to him.
Hopefully he went to a better place
http://naerey.switch-case.org
With all due respect to Rob Levin, I'm not sure he's the kind of guy Dimebag or Steve Irwin would gravitate to in a crowd...
Particularly with bicyclists who like to ride on public roads without helmets...
Many of us only knew Rob from his "global announcements" on IRC, but still he will be sorely missed. I only hope his death does not discourage cyclists. The more people cycling, the safer it is for cyclists everywhere, and the fewer sad incidents like this one.
I will be supporting lilo and cyclists everywhere by attending Critical Mass [wikipedia.org] to make it safer for cyclists. I encourage all slashdotters and freenoders to seek out and attend their own local Critical Mass (organised by YOU).
The next Critical Mass is Friday 29th September near you. Google it. Support cyclists.
This really sucks. Regardless of what some people think of lilo/FreeNode/PDPC, he was trying to do something that he saw as good for the community, and was genuinely a nice guy. Condolences to his family.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
No, it's not verifiable, although if you ask around people will agree that christel said this. It is all very sudden and I don't think anyone knows yet. I'm sure his family have better things to do right now than a) finding out what the police are doing about the driver and b) telling Freenode about it.
BTW, I don't think I did express an opinion about CCTV. In any case, lets not discuss that here.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Tough. Obviously I wouldn't choose to ride on a narrow busy road if there was any alternative. Sometimes the only way to get from A to B is on a narrow busy road. And if there isn't room to safely pass, the only way to safely travel is to ride in the middle of a lane and prevent drivers from forcing me off the road. Generally such choke points are a few hundred yards at most. You might lose a few seconds by having to slow down for that stretch. If you don't like it, lobby for a wider road. not at the expense of other people's sanity and ability to get where they're going
So because of your insanity, I'm not allowed to use roads? Well, at least you're honest in your reasons.
Or maybe you should accept that roads were built for cars, not your puny velocipede.
No, I don't. They were built with my taxes, they are built on public land. I don't care how much you paid for your car, I have a right to use public roads in my puny velocipede.
It was a hit-and-run, you insensitive clod.
That's right. Texas state law. If you're involved in an auto accident, you stay to render aid, etc.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
The affected "pass" is NOT a synonym for "die".
When told that someone passed, I immediately ask, "What did he pass? The gravy?"
What most people are thinking of when they use "pass" for "die" is the colloquial phrase "pass away". That phrase, indeed, means "die". So use it, dammit.
Fata viam invenient.
I was in a bus once when a bicycle plowed into us. If it handn't happened right below my window, I never would have known it happened. I'm almost positive we had the right-of-way and he somehow failed to comprehend that he was overtaking a bus that was braking, signaling a right turn and approaching a bus station on the right.
If a bike strikes your SUV's blind spot or rear end, the car won't move at all and all you'll hear is a thump, easily drowned out by the stereo. In an especially tall vehicle (like the bus I was riding) the entire accident will happen completely out of view.
One possible scenario: A fast-moving cyclist on a downhill run is rapidly catching up with a slow-moving SUV. As the cyclist starts overtaking on the right, the SUV suddenly turns right. The cyclist is unable to stop or swerve and his front tire hits the car's right rear tire. The bicycle is snapped violently to the side, slamming the rider's unhelmeted skull into the curb. The driver, meanwhile, has only heard a thumping sound and attributes the slight lurch of his car to irregular pavement at the edge of the road. The only damage to the SUV is a scuff on the sidewall. Or the driver later finds damage on the right side of the car and assumes some coward did hit-and-run on them in a parking lot.
Who's at fault, the driver who failed to signal, or the cyclist who was following too closely? In my home state, leaving the scene of a fatal accident is itself a felony and is pretty damning evidence of at-fault driving. Almost certainly there were a number of contributing factors that we don't know about. That doesn't make lilo any less dead or urban cycling any less a risk.
This is not my sandwich.
So was it murder? A few years ago a car with Richard Stallman was hit...
More bike riders would get respect if: /rant
1) they didn't weave in and out of stopped traffic
2) stopped at stop signs as required by law, a 4-way stop does not mean you have the right to barrel thru while a car must stop and wait for you
3) rode in the proper direction with traffic
4) got off and walked their bikes across like required to do, if they want to use a crosswalk
5) paid for the use of the road as drivers of motor vehicles have to do
6) rode in the proper location on the road
7) had to prove they knew the rules of the road before being allowed out on the road
That said, it is sad when someone dies in a bike or motorcycle accident, both for the family of the rider and the driver, if they were not at fault.
RIP Rob!
Tough. Obviously I wouldn't choose to ride on a narrow busy road if there was any alternative. Sometimes the only way to get from A to B is on a narrow busy road.
Except that its illegal and dangerous to all... Some states (I expect most) have minimum speed limits, and they apply to all traffic, not just cars. Its just as dangerous to have someone riding 20-30 under the limit as it is 20-30 over the limit.
Fine and Helpfull bloke. I've used many irc networks since i started to irc, back in '94 and i couldnt name a single person behind any of the networks (even thou many of my cow-orkers where ircops in IRCNet) beside Lilo. Thanks for providing the best network.
yush
Actually, no, I don't speed. I save that for the track.
As for the rest, I was referring to SOME cyclists, not lilo specifically, since I don't know him, or what he was doing. But sadly, the cyclists that I know personally that throw fits about how bad car drivers are are the same ones that act as if they don't have to follow any of the rules of the road. I'm hoping thats not the case in general, but I've found it best to assume the worst and let people surprise me.
Thats exactly what the problem is, and I'd made that point in other posts, I just forgot to in this one.
In any case, well said.
This is not to blame lilo in any way for not wearing a helmet, but please, let's learn from what happened here. Always wear a helmet when riding a bike. The speed you are going doesn't matter, it's the distance from your head to the ground, which is the same on a bike as it is on a motorcycle. My life was probably saved once because I was wearing a helmet when I hit a pothole after coming off a long hill. Bike helmets nowadays are light-weight and not at all dorky looking.
Again, the driver is to blame for this, not lilo. Doubly so as they fled the scene, when perhaps if they had stayed and summoned help immediately, lilo might have survived.
Rest in peace, lilo. My condolences go out to his family.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Uhmm...you picture whole thing too much in black & white...
More often than not beeing a bit "rude" on bike is the only safe way. Lack of bike paths, narrow roads/lanes (I imagine you don't experience this that much in US...) and heavy traffic in the city practically guarantee that when you use side of the road, many drivers pretend to not notice you when passing (with traffic from other side). So practically the only safe way is to drive a bit too much toward the center of the lane, so the cars will _have to_ slow down, and wait until they can pass you - at least then they're doing it with large margin for error.
Cyclist simply learned that forcing cars behind them no stop/slow down is actually safer than playing nice...
One that hath name thou can not otter
On highways, sure. So maybe we're not talking about the same kind of roads.
Yes, the law does have some harsh penalties for hit and run incidents and we should let the law mete out its punishment. The part I was disagreeing with is the forming of a vigilante justice lynch mob like they still do in some backwards parts of the world... sometimes even when the person is innocent.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
That's because Steve Irwin worked with horribly dangerous animals for a living, and also essentially made jokes about himself for a living.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Granted, but this was a hit-and-run. That means that after hitting him, the driver drove off to avoid having to face the consequences, probably lengthening the time it took for help to arrive. That isn't an error, it's a deliberate, selfish attempt to get himself off the hook.
Let me be clear: I'm not condoning this, I think it was terribly wrong, and I hope the hit-and-run driver is caught and does time, no matter what the explanation. As an avid cyclist who has been hit a couple of times, I take these things pretty personally.
However, we shouldn't be quick to judge the driver. People do crazy things in the heat of the moment. It's possible that the culprit is a perfectly nice person who had a moment of inattention followed by a moment of panic, and is now paralyzed with fear and remorse. The fight-or-flight reflex is a poweful one. It's also possible, of course, that the culprit is a sociopath who giggled on the way home. We don't know, and shouldn't assume.
We also should be careful with our judgements for another reason: what we hope we will do in a crisis is no guarantee of what we'll actually do. A friend of mine is doing her medical residency right now, and there's a reason that new doctors spend three years practicing in punishing conditions and under close supervision. It's because when the shit comes down you need deeply established habits to fall back on. Good character and education aren't enough. Without those habits, it's a roll of the dice.
Obviously I wouldn't choose to ride on a narrow busy road if there was any alternative.
The alternative is to get a vehicle capable of keeping up with the flow of traffic. Your pet choice doesn't give you some exalted status.
No, I don't. They were built with my taxes, they are built on public land. I don't care how much you paid for your car, I have a right to use public roads in my puny velocipede.
Hey! The park was built with my taxes and on public land! Does that mean I can drive my car all over it?
No? Why not? Oh, because it wasn't built for cars?
Well, the road wasn't built for bicycles.
Now, whether you like it or not, as I said, with rights comes responsibility. If you cannot keep up with the flow of traffic, you are breaking the law. There is a minimum speed limit -- and not just on highways. You cannot, if you are in a car, just arbitrarily slow down to 20mph in a 45mph zone, and if you do so in front of a cop, expect to get pulled over. So why do you think that you get to do the same thing because you're on a bike?
Keep up with traffic or get the hell off the road. Obey all traffic signs and signals, not just the ones that are convenient for you. Do not assume that because your bike can weave through cars, you're allowed to do so. Use hand signals to indicate to drivers when you're about to slow down or turn.
These are not suggestions, these are laws. If and only if you can manage to adhere to all of them, I'll respect your right to use the road with a bike -- especially that first one. Until then, not only do you have no right to use the road, but it is patently illegal for you to do so.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
The point is, if you're going to use the road, be it in a car or on a bicycle, obey the rules and use common courtesy. If you're unable to pedal hard enough to go the speed limit, get off the road and use the designated bike paths or use the side of the road, not the middle of the lane. And don't get pissed when I honk my horn at you because you're holding up traffic by being an idiot.
I completely agree with your first sentence, and disagree vigorously with the rest. Slower traffic, be it car or bike, should absolutely yield to let faster traffic pass. But cyclists are still traffic, and in places without good bike paths, the safest place to ride is often in the middle of the lane. Speed comes second to safety. At least in California, it's the law, and you see signs like this to remind impatient drivers of that.
Could be...
I drive home on a narrow rural highway, speed limit is 55. There is a fair amount of bicycle traffic on the road. Mininum speed limit is 45mph...
> "Recently I was travelling down a main street in a car with a friend, that had major construction and was limited to one lane each way. A rather narrow lane. We get stuck behind a guy on a bicycle doing no more than 10 mph. We had no room to pass him. The result of this was my friend and I, and at least 10 other cars being held up by this inconsiderant idiot."
Hello, I am a lead cycling instructor for the Leauge of American Bicyclists.
In this example, with the information you've given me, I think the cyclists was driving perfectly. I'm sorry you have to slow down in the construction zone, that must have been a real incovenience to you. I'm *sure* the cyclist wishes he didn't have to block the lane - we hate doing it, but please understand that the stakes are To The Death. Given the narrowness of the road, the main safety hazard is impatient motorists passing without safety margin on the left. Unfortunately, its not possible for a cyclist to tell by ESP which type of vehicle operator you are until you've hit him, or not. Thus the sane and safe lane position is blocking the lane, thus not tempting other vehicle operators to engage in unsafe passing behavior.
The preliminary evidence leads me to believe that this cyclist was not an idiot, as was actually probably well-educated in vehicluar bicycling.
I think you're blaming the wrong party. It sounds like you're angry at the cyclist. In fact you should be angry at the construction which narrowed the street to one lane, so that all vehicles must slow to the pace of the slowest vehicle. You'd be inconvenienced also if a car slowed to make a left turn, blocking the lane, but you wouldn't call that operator an idiot, nor post about that on slashdot, now, would you? Think about that for a minute before reading on...
All transportation inconveniences other transportation. Its a fact of life. Bicycles inconvenince car operators in different ways than cars inconvenience car operators, but both forms cause inconvenience. For examples, the above mentioned left turning car ahead of you would inconvenience you. Also, when was the last time a row of bikes parked on the street blocked a lane of traffic? Probably never. But parked cars block lanes of traffic all the time. Also, on wide roads, bikes and cars can interpentrate and pass eachother. Cars can't pass cars in the same lane like that, instead they line up behind eachother, causing cascading gridlock problems.
So have some empathy, relax, and enjoy sharing the road.
Also, please don't honk unless a collision is imminent. It doesn't help anything. If you can't get past, ask why that is. Ask why you think you have more right to the road than the non-polluting, non parking-space-consuming bike rider? Ask how long you're _actually_ being delayed, and if the bike rider is waiting for a chance to let you through. Consider all these factors before becoming annoyed.
> "As a fellow cyclist I feel sick to the stomach to think the biggest danger to me is something I can't do anything about - getting hit from behind. And it makes me more sick to know there are a lot of drivers out there who would hit and run. If you read lilos blog you can see one of the reasons he was riding was because he was eminently aware of the ecological crisis cars are causing. So it's another soldier dead today in my view."
n dex.php , and check only the "BikeEd Courses" box.
Good news chum! For trained cyclists riding in the proper lane position, overtaking collisions are reduced to only 0.3 percent of all bike-car collisions. (see _Effective Cycling_, John Forrester). The trick is proper lane positioning and (at night) lighting. If you're in the USA I strongly recommend taking one of the League of American Bicyclists' "Road I" classes, they cover this in detail. To find courses in your area, access the course finder at http://www.bikeleague.org/cogs/resources/findit/i
When I took the class I already had perhaps 10,000 urban miles under my belt. I was skeptical whether there was anything there to learn. I learned a lot. The experience of 10^10 miles of collective cyclist experience goes into those clasess.
as long as people are willing to accept the risks themselves and sign something stating they will never impose upon the state for medical care if they are injured doing something foolish.
h tm
s .html
Riding a bicycle isn't foolish. Riding a bike in traffic is statistically safer than walking down the sidewalk. Basketball puts more people in the ER every year than cycling:
http://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/SafetyQuiz.
The dangers of cycling have been hyped by the auto insurance lobby to decrease payouts (scare people away from cycling, problem solved!) and taint juries (He was riding a *bicycle*, what did he *expect*?). They work largely through "bike advocate" professional 501c3 NGO-jockeys with no real interest or commitment to cycling. Look behind groups like Bikes Belong or the League of American Bicyclists and you will see the AAA. No joke.
Many helmets do not meet the high-impact safety standards, but the fact is there are helmets out there that do. Helmets today are lightweight, well ventilated and comfortable. Even if they can protect in only a small fraction of cases, isn't it worth it to wear one?
What standard are you talking about? SNELL? CPSC? Bike helmet standards in the US have been twice-downgraded since the early 1970s.
Handwringers obsess over legions of tube-fed cycletards draining the common treasury, but economic analysis of cycling from the Wharton School shows the contrary: Cycling (with risk of accident factored in) increases longevity to such an extant that there is a real concern that longer-lived people will consume more energy by being around for extra decades to keep a fridge going and to forget to turn off the light in the garage. See:
http://opim.wharton.upenn.edu/~ulrich/publication
Thank you for everything you did for the community in general and for me specifically. I wouldn't be involved in F/OSS the way I am were it not for your help early in my career. I'm certain the same could be said for many folks. You had a vast and overwhelmingly positive effect on the community.
moo.
Bike lanes are often way more dangerous than riding in the street. Read:o ne/laird1.htm
http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/doorz
Here in California the law recognizes that lots of bike lanes are substandard and can be legally ignored:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm
As for your feelings about erratic sidewalk cycling, I'm with you. Bicycles belong out in the traffic lane.
The efficacy of bike helmets is strongly contested. The sidewalk is a demonstrably more dangerous place to ride than the traffic lane. People aren't out to kill you. Splitting lanes is safe and quite legal in some jurisdictions.
I'm with you on the road signs and anti-oblivion.
1. Pass a bike as you would a motorcycle. You would never, ever cut so close to a motorcycle even if it was going that slow. A bike at speed can't just take two steps and be out of the road like a pedestrian, in fact it the shoulder of the road can be more than bad enough.
2. IF you bike, don't go speeding through the pedestrian crossing. Cars normally have green light to turn onto that road, and as long as you're not the bike you're not a pedestrian and don't have the right of way, at least not here in Norway.
3. Never, ever run from the scene of an accident. The penalty for running should be equal or greater to being drunk, on drugs or whatever reason you're running. People could *die* because you run, and the right incentive is that it will always be better for you go back and help than to run.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The League of American Bicyclists have put together excellent courses on the safest way to cycle based upon research done by people like Forester and John Allen.
Reading the original post I wonder if it is a deliberate troll. My reasons for that suspicion are that the poster says that the lane was narrow. Now, according to the drivers handbooks of most states and a considerable body of case law it is not recommended to pass another road user with less than 4 feet of clearance. I would suspect that the cyclist knew that this was not possible and did not want to take the chance of a judgement-impaired driver trying to "squeeze past". I find it hard to believe that the OP would not be aware of that. Sit back dude, and relax, you won't get anywhere faster (except prison) by rushing around.
You are very wrong, almost without exception, the only roads with minimum speed limits are freeways where bicycle riding is not permitted anyway. Reall, you're wrong.
XML causes global warming.
Could anyone explain to me why freenode in particular has been so useful for OSS projects? I'm not saying it's a bad network, but there were hundreds of other IRC networks before freenode and still are. If it died, they could and would skip to EFNET or something. Yeah maybe it has a few netsplits, but I'm sure you could find more reliable ones if that really bothers you.
You're right, there's nothing particularly special about the network. It's the community. It's by far the largest gathering point for people working on open source projects. Inevitably, in situations like this, people will go to the place where everyone else is because the value of the network is the highest when everyone is in the same place. It didn't have to be Freenode, but that's just the way it ended up.
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
There is no excuse for a driver to not notice a bicycle hitting him. If a driver were that inattentive then he would be a hazard to everyone on the road and would not deserve a license.
Oh wait, reality calls where almost everyone is like that. This is why being a cyclist is so damn dangerous (hello car making a left turn into me; I am in the intersection and perhaps you would see me if you got off of your phone and looked where you were turning).
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
I hope police catch the vile murderer :(
Here in the US hit-and-runs seem so common. Practically every few days on the local news I hear of one.
The whole culture of driving here is messed up. People feel such entitlement and have so little regard for the safety of others. Look at the rates of drunk driving, hit and runs, etc. The courts often give offenders just a slap on the wrist. It's far too easy to get a driving license, and far too difficult to take it away. Whether it's an 85 year old who plows their SUV into a crowd a people, a reckless car load of drunk teenagers, or the 'soccer mom' with one hand on her cellphone and one on the wheel this is a huge problem.
What philosphy? It's legal to ride a bike in traffic. If the lane is wide the law requires that cyclists stay to the right. If the lane isn't wide enough to safely share between a bicycle and a truck then the cyclist is legally allowed to ride in the middle to assert his presence.
It is legal, and it's usually the most effective way to stay safe, but it can be difficult to move out into a lane that is congested with cars.
I do it frequently on certain sections of road, usually when I'm getting ready to make a left turn, but also when the bike lane is simply too narrow. Unfortunately, a lot of car drivers simply aren't paying enough attention, and they sometimes react quite viciously when a cyclist jumps into the middle of what they consider to be their lane. There is the legal, then there's the practical. It's not always practical to mix it up with the cars, particularly when drivers are pissy because of their morning commute.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
But ordering me to keep off it does imply you imaginine it belongs to you.
You know what they say about "assume"? It makes people use trite cliches.
Those are the conditions.
The "conditions" being referred to in the statute are clearly not meant to include "riding the bike in general", else the statute would be meaningless. The law is that you stay as far to the right as possible and do not interfere with the flow of traffic, unless something unusual is preventing you from doing so or you are about to turn left.
When bicycles kill as many people as cars, registration might be necessary.
Don't be naive. Registration isn't about identification -- it's about money. If it were simply a matter of being able to ID cars in the event of a problem, then why do I need to "renew" it every year although my information, nor the car's information, has changed in five years?
And considering the minuscule amount spent on bicycle infrastructure, I don't get my money's worth.
I'd say you get far more than your money's worth, actually. Considering the number of people as a percentage who actually use bicycles as a primary means of transportation, which is ridiculously small, it doesn't make sense to pool everyone else's money into supporting the infrastructure for a small number of whiners who can't even be bothered to obey the laws that are already in place.
You're complaining that there isn't enough bike infrastructure -- I have a sneaking suspicion that if the amount of money put into installing, upkeeping, and expanding bike lanes were actually proportional to the number of bikers out there, and how much taxes they really pay for the roads, there would be much, much less of that infrastructure, at least in the States.
Cyclists are worse than Mac users when it comes to adopting elitist, oppressed-minority attitudes. I especially love how drivers are "inconsiderate" for not being super nice to cyclists, but cyclists see it as their divine freakin' right hold up traffic for three miles by going 20mph slower than everyone else, and that's not inconsiderate at all, eh?
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
Lilo always helped us out on #wikipedia, and popped in quite frequently. Terrible news :-(
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The problem is, the bicyclist had MANY opportunities to let me by. We hit just about every stop light on the stretch of road. Lights that are normally timed so as to allow the flow of traffic to go uninterrupted. That is, they're timed so that if you hit one green light, the next few lights will most likely be green. However, because of the cyclists slower rate of speed, we ended up hitting just about every light. Surely he could have let me gone by at the light, no? There was plenty of room for him to move over to the side and let me by while waiting for the light to turn green.
Your left turn analogy is a bit flawed. He's not doing anything wrong by turning left. IMO, A bicyclist holding up traffic, when he could have let other cars by, or taken a different route is wrong. There were plenty of side streets less than 25 yards north or south of the street we were on. Did he choose to use them? Nope. I couldn't use them because I needed to be on that street to find an open parking structure.
And I normally never use my horn, I was simply using that as an example of "don't get pissed at me because I'm getting frustrated with the fact that you're holding up traffic. In fact, the only time I use my horn is to alert a driver ahead that the light has turned green, if they seem to be unaware of that fact, as it can be quite dangerous to have cars at a standstill at a green light.
And don't use you're holier than thou attitude with your "non-polluting, non-parking-space-consuming" BS. It's not always possible to ride a bike. And for the record, I ride my bike just about everyday, and walk just about wherever I go. Granted, most people will drive wherever they have to go, be it 50 miles or 5 blocks. But with your holier than thou BS, you seem to assume that I'm somehow below you bike riders. Funny, considering that you're essentially telling me to better understand the facts.
As for sharing the road, I'll gladly share it. Just make damn sure you're not taking up two lanes with your pack of riders when you could easily go single file in one lane.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Thanks for your reply.
... the roads are there for TRANSPORTATION first, and recreation and other uses as capacity permits)
> As for sharing the road, I'll gladly share it. Just make damn sure you're not taking up two lanes with your pack of riders when you could easily go single file in one lane.
Yeah, these bicyclist convoys drive me nuts too. First of all, they're clearly not really _going anywhere_, they're just out to burn calories on their bikes for fun. So what's the diff if they packetize to allow faster vehicles to pass them? They won't draft as efficiently, but isn't pedaling the whole point? I don't get it, and in my personal, current opinion, they should have diminished rights to the road. (I think that too for admobiles and car drivers "scooping the loop", by the way
As a clarification, in the left turn analogy, I was imagining that oncoming traffic was blocking the left turn for quite some time, as happens often. Both cases cause blocked traffic. I think you just have more empathy for the car, because you're in a car, and you understand that riding in a car, sometimes left turns are necessary. Well, sometimes, driving a bike, lane-blocking is necessary.
> Surely he could have let me gone by at the light, no? There was plenty of room for him to move over to the side and let me by while waiting for the light to turn green.
You're changing your story. Was there plenty of room, or not enough room? If there's enough room to pass in the lane, then I think he should have let you pass. But if the lane is narrow, I'm not mashing right while cars are stopped, and giving those cars the impression its okay to sleaze past me, because then the first car will sleaze past with 1 foot margin and 2mph speed difference... then the second at 1 foot margin and 8mph...then the third at 1 foot margin and 15mph, then you have a dangerous situation! For all the cyclist's consideration, the cars drivers won't let the bike back in 2/3rds of the time, believe me, I've tried. They play chicken to co-opt the right of way. And in games of chicken between bikes and cars, the cars always win.
Even if you, personally, are reasonable and would only pass when its safe to do so, believe me, there are many out there who give in to tempatation, and pass within the margin of error if the cyclist gives them the option. Cyclists have to prepare for the lowest common denominator. The price for failure is death.
As to there being lots of side-streets, maybe the cyclist didn't know the area well enough to realize that. If the side-streets were really so great, and your delay so interminable, maybe you could have used them to jink ahead of him? A car can cover 25m in no time, flat.
The synchronized lights were probably aggrivating the cyclist more than you. You were losing time. The cyclist was losing time too, plus effort to restore his speed. FWIW in some places they're re-syncing them to make the effects on bike traffic (and all traffic stuck behind the bikes) less onerous.
I admit to the "holier than thou" attitude. You also had such an attitude. I don't understand your feelings. However, I feel mine is well-justified: Car drivers pollute, take tons of space to park, and kill more Americans than 9/11 every month. What you call "BS", I call facts that sane people should weigh carefully. So even if you don't agree, you can at least understand where my opinion is coming from.
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If I were going in a straight line, for, say, a mile, and there were ten cars piled up behind me with no safe place to pass, I would indeed cheerfully pull over to let them pass.
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I think you're right, the "green light vegetable" situation is a good use for the horn.
I didn't actually change my story. The plenty of room bit was in reference to the fact that at the stop light, there becomes more room (in that he could let the car through in an orderly, more organized way) in that when he came to a stop, he could have safely moved over and let us creep up to the front. Passing while actually driving was not an option because it could have put us both in jeopardy, but when we came to a stop light, I think it would have been perfectly safe for him to move over to the side, and wave us through. Surely you can agree that even with the lane still being narrow, it's safe for the bicyclist to let us through at the light? I see where you're coming from when it comes to the build up of cars behind, but there were a few opportunities for him to let us by before other cars came up behind us. Perhaps, if he had done this for us, and then another car at the next light, the bottleneck wouldn't have been so bad. Admittadely, I'm not sure exactly how the cars past the 3rd car behind us came up on us.
I fully understood your left turn analogy. My point was that it's often necessary for cars to make left turns. It's not always necessary for bike riders to lane block. I understand that there are times when it is necessary, but I personally believe it should be as a last resort. This guy had at least two other options that I could see (letting us by at the light, or taking the other streets). I admit that he might not have had the option of side streets as you pointed out that he might not know where he's going. Or, he could possibly have known that he was looking for a particular building on the stretch of road, but was unsure where exactly it was. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, but I still think it's unreasonable that he failed to yield to our single car when he had the chance.
As for using the sidestreets to get around him, this wasn't an option because as I said, the parking structures were along this particular street, and taking the side streets would not have allowed the option to find an open one, without going past them, and then turning back onto the street in question, and with the left lanes closed, it was impossible to take left turns into said parking structures.
As for the holier than thou, again, you seem to think bikes are always a viable option for transportion. Sometimes, when say, in this scenario, carrying a portfolio of work to a place about 5 miles away, it isn't exactly an option. Like I said, I walk or bike just about everywhere I have to go, but it is not always an option.
You say you would cheerfully let the 10 cars behind you pass - This is precisely why I said in my original post that it was just one example, and not all bicyclists should be judged on that one scenario. Surely now you can understand where my opinion is coming from.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
The oppression is quite real and sometimes lethal, thanks to attitudes like yours, that a few seconds of your time is worth more than my life. You are willing to put my life at risk because you resent slowing down for a minute.
Did I hold a gun to your head and tell you to ride your 25mph bike on a 50mph thoroughfare? No, it was your choice to do this. I have no sympathy for people who willingly put themselves into dangerous situations and then bitch about the danger -- even if it's "wrong" that your life is in danger, you have no one but yourself to blame for your being there.
You're not being "oppressed" because 99% of the road-using populace doesn't cater to the 1% who chooses to put themselves in harm's way.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.