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The End of the iPod Clickwheel
Rockgod quotes a Mercury News article saying "If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer may abandon the iconic wheel that has become virtually synonymous with its popular iPod music players.
The company had previously explored replacing the click wheel with a virtual one as part of a touch-sensitive display. But now Apple appears to be looking at a third option: a touch-sensitive frame surrounding the display. Rather than click a physical button or press a virtual one on the screen, users would touch an area on the frame to operate their iPod."
I don't know if this is related to the news that their patent has fallen through for the user interface based on the clickwheel but if I may speculate, it may have some influence on their decision.
... so it is definitely a risky move either way. Perhaps they could market both flavors of iPod interface?
So you might wonder who cares if you can patent an interface or not? If it works, who cares? Well, I would like to point out that if they can't successfully patent the clickwheel & interface, this leads the way for many many knock offs that could potentially function identical to an iPod. If someone can offer an iPod for a fraction of the price, they could potentially steal a part of the market share.
So it might seem that a part of their strategy is to introduce an equally intuitive interface with the user (that they can patent) so as to maintain their unique offering to the consumer. Maybe they don't think their name brand reorganization & iTMS compatibility is sufficient to keep a hold on the market. But it's not certain the market will love the new interface as much as the old
The simplest explanation is that they're just testing the waters for interfaces that they can patent.
My work here is dung.
Sounds like they're not really doing away with the wheel, but rather just relocating it around the screeen. I love my 4G ipod and the click wheel interface has alot to do with that. Hopefully this new interface won't change things too much. The wheel has become iconic at this point and Apple may be making a critical mistake if they remove it.
DeviantArt Page
NSFWIconic or not, I just want it work well and be easy to use.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
i hate to say it... but apple may be cutting their own throats here if this change goes through. you know the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." however as the current masters of electronic aesthetic design, i'm sure they have many many intelligent people working on this.
It sounds at least somewhat like the iRiver Clix. Which, given that it's already available for sale, is most likely prior art.
---
Kwanza is not a Polish holiday!
"If a recent patent filing is any indication..." Well, it isn't an indication of any such thing. Apple patents stuff alla time and some things make it and some don't. Just because you see Apple filing a patent doesn't mean they will do anything with it. More likely in this case it is to prevent others from marketing the idea.
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
Let us assume for a minute that Apple actually plans on producing one of these new interface designs that show up in patent applications from time to time.
Why does everyone seem to assume that one of these newfangled non-physical-clickwheel interfaces will be used on a replacement for the iPod as we currently know it? I mean, most of the complaints are right on the money:
*A full screen iPod would have worse battery life, all things being equal, than an iPod with a smaller screen.
*A non-physical-clickwheel would be harder to use blindly, as in a pocket.
*A non-physical-clickwheel would be an abandonment of the most iconic part of the brand.
*A "true video" iPod would involve compromises making it a less ideal music player.
All these arguments (and more) being legitimate, why do people continue to get worked up in a lather every rumor?
Why do people fail to realize that one of these new interface designs, if one ever shows up, will likely be on a new iPod model, not a replacement, but an additional model (video oriented) from which to chose from?
If a recent patent filing is any indication,
These days, patent filings are rarely indicative of the delivery of any product.
In fact, the claim is often made that patents are usually filed exclusively to create barriers for competitors.
The touchwheel is finicky enough as it is, always going one past the selection I want, or moving when I lift my finger to select. I can't imagine using a touchscreen is going to be any better.
My first reaction was of the "Bad idea to tamper with highly successful idea" sort.
Then again, I remember more than a few people casting aspersions on the click wheel interface, myself included, generally focusing on the perceived unreliability of touch-sensitive inputs, especially in the environments where people will use an iPod.
I'm going to assume that the marketing and design folks at Apple aren't going to commit production to a change this major until they're certain, beyond cursory focus group research, that their new interface won't turn people off to the iPod. I expect high demand among the target demographic for a cool new toy, and if there's one thing at which Apple's proved itself with regard to portable electronics, it's the manufacture of cool new toys (the jury's still out on functionality, reliability, and DRM issues, of course).
Tags != Comments, and -1 (Troll) != -1 (I Would Respond Angrily To This Poster So They Must Be Trolling)
I just got my first ipod last week, its a 30G ipod video. I won it as a prize. I have a PDA which i've always felt sufficient for listening to music and watching movies, although limited in storage space. I figured i'd give the ipod a shot because it has a longer battery life and a lot more storage. I don't know if its because i'm coming from a touch screen interface to the clickwheel, but i didn't like the clickwheel. Although i think the design to be 1 handed is nice, i constantly missed my mark and 'bumped' it inadvertently. I would've much preferred depressing the buttons to navigate around.
I'm looking forward to the new interface.
The picture.
Animoog.org
Nailed it on the head. This design is *not* intended to replace the clickwheel on regular iPods. Anyone who thinks that is not using their noggin. It is clear that the target of this design is the long-rumored, video-oriented product. Move the controls off the front of the device in order to allow the screen size to increase substantially. That's it.
That is one of the reasons i like the ipods over the alternatives.
Why is it in todays world companes cant leave well enough alone? if it works, they dont NEED to break it, just to push out new product.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Apple changed the world with their codification of UI design in the 1980s. One fundamental principle of that design is that all UI widgets must interact with the user "immediately" (< 300ms), providing feedback. Users don't just interact with the code executing the app logic - we interact with the widget, which must change state to indicate we've interacted with it. The clickwheel seemed to interact on the screen, making sounds, even though the wheel itself was inert. I hope they can pull it off with a new unconventional UI device.
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make install -not war
Apple computer has thousands of patents, a large fraction on things they never plan on brining to market. They're just covering their ass.
(Though if they make a full screen video iPod I'd rather touch the edge than wipe my greasy finger on the face.)
Whoops, wrong response. How about "OMGWTF? plz don't fk with my ipod, lozrs!"
Or "Typical moron Apple move. DRM sux."
Have any of you had a chance to use the Sony cameras with touch screens? OMG! It works shockingly well. They replaced the five button (four directional and one center) along with various other buttons with a new layout on the enlarged screen.
I think we're going to see an iPod much like that. The whole face of the device will be one big 'wide' screen and the buttons will be right there on the screen. A bigger display and bigger buttons.
Haven't we already seen 'rumors' of this design?
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
When you are holding an iPod, you have a thumb on the front, and four fingers on the side. If you turn the iPod on it's side - it becomes a 16x9 screen that takes up the entire surface real estate. If the iPod is held sideways as such, you would hold it with a thumb on the bottom, a finger on the top, and three fingers dangling behind. The thought I'm having is simply this: relocate the clickwheel from the front....to the back, where your middle finger would be able to control it; and thereby giving you the maximum potential screen real estate for video viewing. After all, they're not just trying to sell iPods, they're trying to sell their iTMS as well - and undoubtedly trying to push their movies.
It sounds like they are trying to emulate the way iRiver Clix/U10 MP3/Video players work. The edges of the screen are the buttons on that one. Its a fantastic control scheme and so far the best MP3 interface I've found.
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
I'd hate this. The main feature that differentiates the iPod from anything else is the clickwheel. Replacing it with anything else, even a "virtual" wheel, is a Bad Idea. The whole point is tactile feedback. With a touch-screen control, I don't really know if the iPod "heard" what I was telling it. It would make me feel disconnected from the device, which is exactly what Apple tries to eliminate. With real feedback that I can feel (and hear, if it's in a quiet environment), it's much more inuitive and less difficult to use. And as another poster mentioned, it would be damn near impossible to use blind, like if it's in a pocket or something. I just can't imagine that Jobs and Ives would give the go-ahead to this idea. It's too big of a coneptual leap, and it makes the iPod HARDER to use, not easier.
Those who anthropomorphize science and/or nature already believe in an intelligent designer.
Here's a picture of what it might look like: http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:Ipodvideo.jpg
I finally broke down and bought an iPod thirty-eight - no, nine (thank you, DST) - hours ago, and now they're going to change it all up? The rat bastards.
Looks like all my years of supercilious PC-user loathing for all things Apple were justified, after all!! Well, I'll show them - just you wait to see what I do with those Apple stickers you so helpfully put in the box...JUST YOU WAIT.
(Yes, I have been up all night migrating DBs, bouncing servers, and racking crap in our cage. How could you tell?)
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I think I had a lamp 15 years ago that would turn on, dim, and turn off by touching any metal on it.
FTFA: "If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer may abandon the iconic wheel that has become virtually synonymous with its popular iPod music players."
Need I remind the writers of the Mercury News that, just because a company has filed for a patent on something, does not mean that they intend to roll it out in their product line. Look at IBM, the most prolific filer of patents in the world. Of the thousands of patents they are granted each year, only a small handful (comparatively speaking) ever amount to anything. Most of the IP is captured solely "just in case" they find a use for it. Oftentimes, they use those filings as leverage or bargaining chips in negotations with other companies, or for attracting customers. Even if they themselves don't commercialize it, they can license it to another company to develop. It is a common thing in the world of business: a good idea from one of your employees is worth capturing, even if its present use is not apparent.
Anyone who owned a thrid generation ipod knows that Apple won't go back to touch sensitive buttons. The buttons on the third generation ipod were horrible. You'd have to frequently toggle the hold switch to recalibrate the ipod so it would be sensitive to your fingers. Even then, you usually got the best result when you brushed your finger past the button rather than just touching it. Apparently Apple knew this, because all future generations have gone back to tactile feedback buttons with mechanical engagement.
The current generation of ipods seems to be a good balance. I can put my ipod into my jeans and control it through the denum. The buttons are easy to find due to their attraction to one side of the ipod, and the wheel is sensitive enough to pick up the finger through the denim.
With this in mind, and looking at the history of ipod design, it looks like Apple abandoned the capacitive buttons in favor of tactile ones. You may not realize why unless you owned a third generation, but ask anyone who has and you're likely to hear a similar story.
While I can see this being useful, I can also see it being a failure. Maybe Apple is just patenting things that their competition might try.
Dekker Dreyer
First of all let me state that I have a Nano, and I don't know if it has the same clickwheel mechanism as the main line. Anyway, I've been using it for a while and I still can't get the hang of it. Using the wheel for scrolling playlists or whatever works fine. The problem is when I want to hit the middle button. I almost always inadvertently scroll up or down a few times while moving my thumb from the wheel to the button and end up going to something I didn't want. Even if I just try to hit the middle button from above I'll still catch the wheel sometimes. I think it's a good idea, but in my mind it just didn't come together.
Thats pretty cold. The guy was making a joke and if you don't laugh or something its overrated? I thought it was funny anyway, you stupid mods.
How are you going to hold the damn thing when every spot along the edge does something?
Just because they patented something doesn't mean they're going to use it. It may turn out to have inherent problems which make it unusable.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
A few things to point out. As the article mentioned, Apple just filed a patent on an idea. It doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen. Two, the patent seems to cover just a video iPod with a full screen. That doesn't mean that all iPods would adopt the new interface. An iPod Shuffle has a different wheel than the 5G and the nano. Even if Apple were using, they are probably not abandoning the click wheel completely.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Incredble that everything about the iPod comes from that Steve Jobs, like me, buys TV and stereo from Bang and Olufsen. And has been marvelled by the excellent design of Bang and Olufsen in the late 80s - mid 90s. Like the scollwheel on their cordless phone 6000 system, for 10 years and still today unrivalled as the worlds best cordless phone system.
BeoCord 6000
Also incredible that Bang and Olufsen had it but lost it. Much of their junk today is overpriced with worse specs than a Panaphonics, Magnetbox or Sorny. Their MP3-player sucks, their new tech is pwned by Microsoft and their cell phone is the worst piece of crap ever produced, overdesigned and useless. The only thing they lack is to smear their shit down with Swarowsky bling-bling. My guess is that Bang & Olufsen today is managed by clueless MBA n00bs that groks nothing.
Steve Jobs is a genius.
so they filed a patent. apple files patents all the time - what ever happened to the one they filed about the touchless click wheel? http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=17738&hed =Apple+Ponders+a+Touchless+iPod
a filing like this does not mean it is the end of the road for the click wheel. the click wheel has brought apple a ton of revenue and one patent filing will not change all that.
nothing to get excited about here.
I don't know if I'm tired or what, but this random crap actually managed to amused me.
Sure, Apple may be making a full screen ipod. And there are a lot of tactile features it'll be lacking - or will it?
Lets look at the device for what it is - a video player. A larger screen attached to a hard drive and battery. Designed for playing movies on a larger screen that your standard ipod.
Apple will still have iPods designed for "pocket use". They aren't going to slap a full screen on a nano or shuffle. That would be silly. Apple will continue to increase the storage of these devices to make the next iPod worthy of buying.
Now, lets say you get an iPod video and just 'have' to have a clickwheel. I can agree - having it in a pocket or a screen protecting case would make it difficult to change songs or volume.
Why couldn't this be on a corded or cordless remote? The aftermarket is already in bed with iPods - this wouldn't be a difficult device to market if Apple doesn't beat them too it.
And if nobody thought it up, well - nevermind, there's nothing to see here. (running to the patent office)
Move the controls off the front of the device in order to allow the screen size to increase substantially. That's it.
Yea that's it. And it sucks. Apple has had a tendency to produce devices that look interesting and unique but are less usable in real life. They did it with the Mighty Mouse, and now they are back to this.
How is a thin strip on the edge of the screen better than a regular touch screen?
While a strip may be good for scrolling and scrubbing, I can see myself picking the wrong track with those little virtual hotspots they give us.
I'm tired of uninformed idiots taking Apple's patent filings and trying to use them to predict what the next iteration of the iPod's going to look like. It's not going to be a widescreen touchpanel with a "virtual" scrollwheel. It's certainly not going to be this ugly piece of crap.
Apple, like any tech company files a LOT of patents. Why? Because even if they're not going to USE them, they can still make money off of them if someone else DOES.
You people have to get over your unhealthy obsession with trying to predict what Apple's going to do next. I used to love reading the rumours sites because there was a sense of intregue, some mystery. Now it appears every moron with a newspaper column wants in on the fun. Only it's no fun if half the Apple "news" you read is mindless speculation about future Apple products.
Why reinvent the wheel!
Yea that's it. And it sucks. Apple has had a tendency to produce devices that look interesting and unique but are less usable in real life. They did it with the Mighty Mouse, and now they are back to this
Any other examples? I haven't used a Mighty Mouse, but plenty of people seem to like them just fine. I can't think of any other nice looking but not especially usable products they've made.
How is a thin strip on the edge of the screen better than a regular touch screen?
I have to agree with this. You can hold an iPod in one hand, and scroll in one continuous motion with your thumb. I don't see how you're supposed to do that with this thing. That said, Apple patents lots of things, some end up being made, some don't.
Why do things like this get patents? The touchpad has already been invented. Will this prevent other manufacturers from putting touchpads around their screens? That's ridiculous. It just seems like everything is patented (or pending) today even if it's not an invention of any kind.
simple, fast homepage with your links: http://www.ngumbi.com/
This rumor might be :
1- A leak about Apple attempting to create a handheld device
The diagram on MacRumors looks very much like a Newton. Just look at the size of the finger on the button. This thing is huge !!
2- To get competitors to work on a mp3 player that doesn't look like an Ipod.
Znort
I'm sure you're not alone. I don't even own an iPod, but whenever I use a friend's, I always do the same thing. I'm not sure if there's a sensitivity setting, but I find myself having to put WAY too much effort to not scroll too far or not far enough. Frankly, I can't stand the clickwheel. I'd rather click, because I know exactly how far a click takes me. It's enough to make me think twice about buying an iPod when I do end up getting a decent portable DMP.
"If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer..."
i have a video ipod, and i love it, but i always thought that it would be really cool if you could put the 2g (4 buttons and a wheel) interface with video. i miss that.
alexultima
Apple is equal to fashion. How is fashion different from technological innovation?
...) - using fashionable computers to create fashionable products.
Both are about bringing new replacing the old. In case of fashion it is superficial replacement, in case of technological innovation it goes much deeper.
TA tells us about a rumer on a typical new Apple fashion. So were modifications of the Macs, MacII -> iMac, etc. Most of the features of new OS's are about fashion as well. Apple is notorious for doing just that.
No wonder girls like Apple more than guys (or folks of non-traditional orientation) (here are two troll points for you, modders). People of humanitarian disciplines (designers, artists, architects,
The fact that Apple is gaining points in the PC market speaks volumes of who we, computer users, are becoming, and the maturity of personal computer industry.
With this I conclude my chaotic and not very well organized rant. Oh, I forgot. I abhor, deplore, hate, despise, resent fashion.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
ugh, defensive patenting. what an idea...
how long does a granted patent last again? 20 years?
something tells me that if a product have not made it to marked within the first 1/4 of the patent length, said patent should be under review for termination.
defensive patenting is one of the ills of the patent system...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
A lot can advance in even just 5 years in the new tech world. Defensive patenting, imo, is just the latest hurdle that bright and entrepreneurial minds have to clear in order to succeed. I'm not a fan, but the system's evolved around it, for better or for worse.
iPod without clickwheel is not iPod
Clickwheel is symbol of iPod
Creative Zen's scroll upside down is more intuitive and you don't have to rotate hands. if you drag your finger upside down, the list will scroll down and vice versa. Also, if you scroll down and hold touching the sensor, the list will scroll faster and you don't have to move your finger except to stop scrolling. I find Zen's scroll more intuitive and easier to use.
I don't want a signature.
.. They are reinventing the clickwheel... Thank you, Thank you.. I'm here all week.
God Be Gone
The new interface would be awesome for full-screen video viewing, but it would be nice to maintain a click wheel design for listening to music. The new UI requires 2 hands, unless you have huge hands with telescoping fingers.
I had the exact same kind. I loved it to death. Well, until something happened so that it would get so hot it would just turn off after 10-15 minutes of use. Then it stopped being so nice.
Hey, a lamp that turns off by itself...It's not a bug, it's a feature.
It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
well, a fullscreen touchpad would make the whole thing as skinable as a software-player. maybe that's their intention...
Agreed, the overrated mod is like saying "I'm modding you down, just because" and it is not open for metamoderation. Then it takes someone's karma and when they're modded up as funny, it doesn't even replenish the mod points lost by the previous mod. Another problem is if it is modded as +5 funny, all funny mods, then if it is modded down as troll/flamebait/offtopic/overrated all the way down to -1, then they lose 6 on their karma, possibly going from excellent down to almost bad. News for trolls is right, meaning if it doesn't fit the Apple/Linux/BSD mold, then you are instantly modded down. The ones that do mod up a truly insightful pro-microsoft comments are metamoderated as unfair. SCREW SLASHDOT!
'If a recent patent filing is any indication'...
It isn't.
Latewire
I can: the original iMac hockey puck mouse.
JP
"It is clear that the target of this design is the long-rumored, video-oriented product. Move the controls off the front of the device in order to allow the screen size to increase substantially. That's it."
A reason for the confusion may be that the actual patent filing shows it navigating songs, not movies.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
Like switching from a mouse to a trackball, most interface devices take a bit of time to get used to, but once you do they become second nature.
As to "preferring to click", Apple made that decision a long time ago, the rationale being that clicking up and down is fine on a flash-based player with a couple of dozen songs on it, but impractical as an interface to a hard drive-based system containing the thousands of tracks such a device could hold.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I don't know whether or not you're supporting their decision, but I have an iRiver H340 and I use the Rockbox firmware on it; if you hold the direction button down long enough as you're scrolling through directories/songs/files, the scrolling speed will gradually increase. It's not rocket science.
"The past is but the beginning of a beginning, and all that is and has been is but the twilight of the dawn."
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
I don't think that qualifies as nice looking OR useful :)
more and more reasons for blind people to not buy an ipod.... :(
Think about it. I'm sure blind people must _love_ listening to music.
You'd think every blind person would have one...but...ever tried using an ipod in the dark or, like me, using one with a broken screen? That click is the only thing I have to navigate by.
My Psion 5 has had a "touch-sensitive frame" since 1998.
-- Truth suffers from too much analysis.
It's a music player, not a PDA. It should be designed so you can operate it blindfolded.
The Shuffle has it right. A D-Pad with the five important controls: forward, back, volume-up, volume-down, and play/pause. Additional controls can be added for devices that have a display. That bit can even be touch-sensitive, but the basic controls have to be usable by feel even when the display controls are locked.
Right now, Apple has about 80% of the personal digital music player market. That means that most people who want an iPod already have one The new touch screen design may be a way to entice existing iPod owners who don't want to buy a look-alike replacement for their existing iPod.
A mockup I'm sure, but interesting:
t ext=photostream&size=o
http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=266824107&con
...one article about an apple patent that didn't forgonely conclude the doom of the UI/watever that it might replace.
Like anyone can even know that
Apple won't dump the Click Wheel yet. Just because Apple patented the scroll strips doesn't mean it'll be the next big thing. Anyone remember when Apple patented a tablet design? Everyone went nuts saying "the iTablet will be announced at the next MacWorld." I have yet to see an iTablet. Have any of you seen an iTablet yet? Didn't think so.
Rawr
Lamp 15 years ago? Feh. I used to have this TV 20 years ago where TV stations would come in by standing near the TV and gesturing wildly with my arms.