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Jack Thompson Gearing Up For GTA IV Fight
Next Generation reports on Jack Thompson's next big fight: Grand Theft Auto IV. A mass email was sent to news organizations entitled 'Bill Gates in the Crosshairs'. He vows to 'rally the troops' against the release of the next chapter in Rockstar's sandbox-style crime series. The game is due out sometime this year, on both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. From the article: "Thompson said that he would 'undertake various means to prohibit' the sale of GTA IV to minors, and added, 'Please have your lawyers [Microsoft chairman Bill Gates', that is] contact me in order that such sales will be prevented.' He also said that the ICCR report 'makes it abundantly clear that unless such prohibitions are in place, then millions of units of the new Grand Theft Auto game will be sold directly to minors.' He continued, 'I am quite intent upon making sure that that does not happen. I and others will endeavor to stop Microsoft from participating in any fashion, directly or indirectly, in such sales to minors.'"
This is the good side of what JT does.
If only he'd stick to keeping kids from buying adult games, the world would have no beef with him.
Why just Microsoft? Why not Sony?
Starmen.net
I'm Jack T and no one has heard from me recently! I'm lonely and there are wolves...
wow, dark day, eh?
Hopefuly MS will simply ignore Wako Jako, or possibly shoot him down.
However there is a small dark corner of my mind pointing out that MS could join a campaign to keep GTA:4 from being sold to minors (after all, it isn't supposed to be sold to them, thatis what the "M" stands for), however in doing so it would add some credence to the nutjob.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
Please, O Lord:
Bring the mighty weight of Microsoft's legal staff to bear upon Jack Thompson, and allow us to watch him disappear in a four-colored puff of smoke.
Amen.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Isn't the game rated M anyway? So what's the problem with restricting access to minors?
Some people think that if you only disallow minors to buy the game, everything's fine. Except they're forgetting that this will just result in game designers self-censoring their games so they can get a T.
Oh yes, not to mention that it's been ruled against this little thing called the Constitution you Americans apparently have.
I sorta like the idea of Bill Gates as in insidious mischief lover, selling lewd video game content to minors in the form of XBox games he hides under his trench coat.
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
Doesn't he realize he'd feel so much better if he just went a beat up a hooker or two?
I agree. Keeping such games out of the hands of minors, unless the minors have parent approval is a very good thing.
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
No, it's not a good point at all because Jack is going after the wrong end of the chain. Why is he contacting MS? First off, MS isn't developing or publishing GTA4. He should be after the retail stores since they are the ones responsible for selling 'M' and 'AO' games to children. He should also be be imploring parents to pay attention to game ratings and to make use of the parental control features that are on all the current consoles. MS has NOTHING to do with mature games getting into the hands od kids.
I disagree. Thompson does more harm than good to his purported cause.
This is a simple issue that no one disagrees with him on. Rockstar sure as hell doesn't care, and that only leaves the retailers, and I've yet to see a single one of them who has argued that they should be allowed to sell M rated games to minors. A handful of rational people could sit down and hash this deal out over a weekend.
Enter Jack Thompson, whose notion of a "solution" to this problem is probably a firmware patch that will prohibit the game from running or a law making it a criminal offense for any store to carry the game...Stuff so crazy that no one would agree to it.
I'm still not convinced that he's not being paid under the table by the game companies to make sure that no rational legislation shows up dealing with games. Either way, he practically guarantees that nothing will actually be done.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
At what point do JT's repeated and unsuccessful lawsuits become illegal themselves? Is it legal to sue over the same issue over and over and over and over and over again...?
Hmmmmmm..... Forget the impact on GTA and Rockstar in this, that won't be the big news. The big news will be that /.ers will be forced to either back Jack or root for Microsoft in this battle.
http://www.tomandemily.com
What they see on the news may be just as bad as what they see in a videogame. It is better that people understand the humour in these videogames. Most slashdotters would never dare hit a woman (then again most slashdotters' don't know any women)
How about the label: If you buy this for your kids, you are a douchebag and a bad parent.
If people would spend even 5 minutes understanding the ESRB, all these problems would go away. People understand R rated movied, why can't they understand M rated games? Jack Thompson should just get people to learn more about the ESRB, but I don't see how he can get paid doing that. heh
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
Question. How does Bill Gates or Microsoft have anything to do with GTA IV? Rockstar developed it, Take-Two publishes it, and it's coming out on multiple systems, only one of which is an XBox.
Somebody get Jack the memo.
Caffeine is my anti-drug!
Duranin - A NWN2 Roleplaying Persistent World
I was pleasantly surprised to see a few things over this holiday season.
Parents asking about the rating system and what it means.
Game retailers pausing the transaction to point out it is a 17+/mature rated title and may not be appropriate for children.
I don't see anything wrong with carding younger customers (which I've seen). The problem is the outright bans some people want to have, or those who angrily react when someone suggests they make an informed decision.
Hmm, I may have to get an X-box 360 after all.
Now the question is: will there be Hack Johnson, "public interest" laywer, in the game, who you get to kill when he's frollicking with a bunch of prostitutes?
Test your net with Netalyzr
Lucky him, he has some more ammo The issue won't really be settled once and for all, does violent media create violent people, or are violent people attracted to violent media. Personally, I believe the latter.
Each game is part of a series:
r ies)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_(se
Grand Theft Auto 1 series
The first title in the series, Grand Theft Auto, appeared on the PC and PlayStation in 1997/1998[1] as well as a reduced Game Boy Color port, and subsequently two expansion packs were offered:
Grand Theft Auto: London, 1969 (1969), an expansion pack of the original game, set in 1969 London. Available in PS and PC boxed versions.
Grand Theft Auto: London, 1961 (1961), another expansion pack of Grand Theft Auto: London, 1969, with missions taking place in 1961 London. London, 1961 is a free PC download.
These are just a few derivations. Vice City and San Andreas belong to the 3rd series. Each series is basically a derrivation of the engine used in the first title. GTA4 will be a new engine.
I hadn't even heard about this game until today. Thanks again, Jack T for bringing it to my attention!!!
No, seriously... does anyone else here think Jack Thompson is actually a shill for Rockstar Games and is actually part of the PR marketing campaign??? Until he arrived, I'd heard almost nothing about Grand Theft Auto, but then again I'm not much of a gamer. Having said that, once I'd heard about it through Jack T I figured I should check it out. I borrowed a friend's copy of Vice City and loved it... then bought a copy... then bought San Andreas... you're seeing a pattern here? Hell, I would've bought Bully except that I haven't had time to sit down and play it so I didn't bother buying it yet. Note the "yet" in there.
Funny part is the people working checkout really seem to have no feel for what age people are. I really had to laugh when the girl working the BestBuy register asked to see some ID when my younger brother (who is 22) was purchasing an 'M' game. I would think when it's obvious they wouldn't need to ask, but I guess to be safe they can't take any chances on accidentally guessing someones age wrong.
Fear is the mind killer.
There's no way Microsoft would play along. I'm sure he's hoping to get free labour from Microsoft's considerable legal clout to help him - but one of the main features of Vista (from the gaming side) is the ability for parents to lock out children of games that are inappropriate on a game by game, and kid by kid basis. For Microsoft to fight a legal battle like this would imply that their built in solution to Vista isn't a good one. And, obviously, it'll never be as good for preventing access by minors as just having the game banned, but Microsoft's goal isn't to try and police people, it's to sell products. The more software there is for the Windows platform the more copies of Windows they will sell. Their involvement with something like this would not just be pointless, but counterproductive. Frankly, I think he'd be lucky to get even a letter from Microsoft telling him to get bent.
Besides the Fact that you forgot GTA: Liberty City Stories, The ordering of the Games has been based on the Engines.
GTA3, VC, SA, and LCS all use the same basic game Engine.
Theoretically they should be using a new engine for GTA 4.
Well, age guessing is always tricky and when in doubt, it's a good idea to ask.
Heck, I got carded for cigarettes this morning and I'm more than twice the legal age. This happened because it was a new employee and the cash register told her to ask. Maybe Best Buy's cash registers have started doing that, just to remind the person that they're supposed to check these things.
In other news... stocks of a company selling I Hate Jack Thompson T-Shirts rise dramatically!
Or parents could accept some responsibility in raising their kids. I've got NO problem with laws requiring ratings for games. Beyond that it's up to the parent to make sure that their kids don't play inappropriate games. A pre-teen playing GTA? Where'd they get the fifty bucks for the game? How come Mom and Dad aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing? Legislation is no substitute for good parenting.
[Insert pithy quote here]
They are no more adult than R movies. That's what M is equivalent to in terms of movie ratings. The adults rating, or NC-17 equivalent, is AO. However because most retailer refuse to carry games with AO ratings, even in a separate section, few are made. Same deal with movies. That's why there's an "Unrated" American Pie. Basically what happened is in the original cut, the MPAA hung an NC-17 on it which most theatres won't carry. So they made the necessary changes to bring it down to R. When they released the original cut, they simply didn't submit it for rating, and thus sell it as "Unrated".
Either way unless you also think R movies should be off in a separate section then it doesn't make sense to move M games there. Not that it matters much, retailers these days card you. Seriously, I got carded buying FEAR last month (I'm 26) at Target.
He's facing possible disbarment over the Bully incident where the publicly berated the judge in the case. I wonder if he'll still be able to practice law when GTA4 comes out.
Best Buy registers have a prompt asking the cashier if the customer was born before $DATE. I can't remember it word for word, though.
I would think when it's obvious they wouldn't need to ask, but I guess to be safe they can't take any chances on accidentally guessing someones age wrong.
Yeah, it's hard to fault them for asking EVERYONE for ID... my friend's little brother was working in a convenience store when he was in high school, and was fined (I think $250 - which is almost FORTY HOURS of GROSS income to a kid making $7 an hour - ie blew away 2-3 weeks of his part time job) for selling alcohol to a minor. The minor happened to be a 20 year old undercover cop with a full beard who "looked in his mid 30s". When you know the police are out there trying to entrap 18 year old convenience store employees it's a good idea to ask no matter what the customer looks like.
I did not know another Grand Theft Auto game was looming. Now I am curious and want to play it! Thanks you, Jack, for helping to generate publicity for these fine products! :)
Why bother.
I don't know how it goes in other places, but up here in Québec, the law requires convenience stores to ask the ID of anyone under the age of 25 when buying cigarettes or alcohol, even though the legal age is 18. That way, it removes much of the ambiguity of "this guy looks like he's 22 but he could as well be 17". It's no longer "Show me your ID if you look under 18", it's "Show me your ID if you look under 25". Much harder for a 16 year old to look 25, and adults don't really care about being IDed.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
The XBOX360 at least (and, I assume the PS3) has a parental control feature that, when activated, prevents minors from playing games games with certain ratings. Of course this makes raising children the responsibility of parents, instead of Jack Thompson.
Jeremy
First, I can say, I don't think there's a specific 'law', so to speak, but there is a common policy and campaign for the exact thing. Most stores will show employees a video and have signs that say "under 2x, we card", kind of thing.
Second, adults care a lot about being carded when they're obviously old. Speaking from experience as both a cashier, manager, and customer, I've seen some adults get very verbally abusive on some poor high school girl who asked for id, some to the point where you fear a physical confrontation. While there's a lot of others (probably a minority though) will often complain and even complain to management about being carded.
It's simply not true that 'adults' don't care. There are plenty of people out there who feel they've somehow earned their due to quickly purchase restricted items without hassle. Kind of like getting asked to show your receipt when leaving a Best Buy or something. It just annoys a lot of people. Ironically enough, when someone does turn 21 (in the US for alcohol), they want to be carded as some sort of right-of-passage... but the novelty soon wears off.
Cheers,
Fozzy
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
As an adult, I do have a problem with being asked for ID. I have gray hair and I'm obviously older than the little fucks asking for my ID. It's a power-trip for minimum-wage clerks.... "Sir, the law REQUIRES me to card you for appearing to be under the age of 60...."
What I usually do is demand ID from clerks in those situations, because I've run into clerks who look too young to be SELLING liquor asking me for ID.
But seriously, "appearing to be under 60." How stupid is that.... Welcome aboard the slippery slope, my friend! Some municipalities in the U.S. now require clerks to ask for identification for anybody appearing to be under the age of 60! Used to be 40, but some fucking do-gooder somewhere probably saw a special on High-Schoolers with beards that he thought looked "40". And as we all know, the worst thing that can happen to a kid is if a sip of beer crosses his lips before his 21st birthday...
Some (even more ridiculously) require TWO forms of identification for liquor purchase. And yes, you do occasionally get the one arsehole clerk on his first day who makes the senior citizen in line ahead of you at the grocery dig out two forms of ID to buy his one friggin' bottle of wine... Wasting minutes of your life that you'll never get back watching the guy dig for his second id, then argue that he was fighting in wars while the clerk was still a horny impulse in somebody's eye... Meanwhile, the minors with the requisite "real-looking" two fake IDs walk out unmolested.
Laws like this are an idiotic over-reaction... Carding people who look underage is logical. REQUIRING people to ask for identification from all customers appearing to be under 60 is not only foolish and inefficient, but also ineffective. Minors attempting to buy liquor are generally doing so with FAKE IDs, or through straw-buyers. These rules don't stop those purchases--the only people it stops from buying booze are minors with poor-quality fake-IDs, and adults who don't have a drivers license handy at the counter.
Who did what now?
Because Bill Gates will fuck him up sideways in court. Just ask Janet Reno.
The main issue I have with him is not the fact that he doesn't like video games or violence, it's that he JUST PLAIN OUTRIGHT LIES - he does not get the facts, he does not get the scoops, he doesn't know things we don't know - he simply assumes!
"It's called bully, it must be bad!"
"It's GTAIV from Rockstar, it MUST be bad!"
None of us at all know a single damn thing about GTAIV - it's a mystery thus far and he's already started?
I wish this foolish, stupid little man would go away soon.
He should be after the retail stores since they are the ones responsible for selling 'M' and 'AO' games to children.
JT is an asshat regardless. It's because of jerks like him that I have to show my driver's licence to buy certain games at video game stores. I'm 31 and I look like I'm 31 and sometimes the clerk at Game Stop wants to see my ID. It's a fucking video game, not a case of beer.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
First off, I think the guy is a raving jackass nutcase (this is NOT bias - see the Youtube video of him being yelled at by a judge for acting like a 5 year-old if you don't believe me), but he may actually be doing something that ONE THE SURFACE, I have no problem with.
This is the thing: I have *no problem* with denying elementary school kids the ability to buy GTA4. I don't think it should be censored at ALL, but I don't think that adults (and even teenagers, maybe 15+?) should have ANY HASSLES if they want it and can see some kind of rating on the box (M for Mature, etc).
It's like movies. I don't think it's a bad thing that any 6 year-old can't walk into a theatre and see Pulp Fiction, Saw or Hostel. But, if a parent is with their 12 year-old, or buys them the video, then I say that's fine (hell, even their 6 year-old - it should be legal, but they should be watching Bambi, not Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies, but that's just me). No, of course I don't buy any of the "it makes you kill people" crap, and I was allowed to watch rated-R movies that my parents approved when I was a kid (they stopped regulating that stuff when I was like in middle school or something).
We all know he won't, but if Jack was just going to launch a calm, repectful "please enforce the ESRB ratings for PURCHASE" campaign, then I seriously would have no objection. Of course, he'll rant on every TV show and newspaper he can get his claws into on how video games are responsible for all murders, rapes and even the Iraq War, 9/11 and Katrina. But in "theory," preventing "minors" (elementary school-ish age) from purchasing this (w/o an adult) isn't so bad.
Exactly, it's like going after Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, etc for making DVD players that would allow kids to watch porn.
In Michigan, if the clerk askes for ID durring an alcohol purchase and the purchaser doesn't produce the requested valid ID, and the clerk still sells, the clerk is liable for a $5,000.00 fine irregardless of how old the purchaser is.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Wherein we find the real reason why he's contacting Microsoft: they have money. More specifically, they're trying to mass market a device (Xbox 360) and Jack Thompson plans to link said device to various kinds of debauchery. In the process, he hopes to get a nice fat sum of money out of MS just to shut up.
Except, the plan won't work. Marketers, for all their faults, are savvy. Jack Thompson railing on your game/console pretty much guarantees sales now. Look at Bully. Decent game, certainly not on the level of GTA 3 -- sold very well. I'm sure MS is sitting back right now and saying "Bring it, Mr. Thompson."
Moviemakers routinely put in gratuitous violence or a shot of a woman's breasts in order to GET an R rating. Lower ratings, especially G (General Audience) are the kiss of death, financially.
The game rating system does the opposite of what the moralists want -- it encourages developers to play chicken with the rating board, to see how much they can get away with.
Any kind of rating system necessarily distorts the creation of the artwork to which it is applied. That includes money, government labeling, industry labeling, or the views of influential critics. Only when an artist has the courage to follow his own vision without regard for anyone else's judgment do we get true works of art.
I piss off bigots.
Actually, Liberty City Stories (at least on the PSP) uses a whole new engine, instead of RenderWare as was used for GTA3, Vice City and San Andreas; I think Vice City Stories uses an enhanced version of the LCS engine. Dunno if the materials were transferred back to RenderWare for the PS2 LCS, or if the new LCS engine was ported back to PS2.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Last time I had cashier training we were told that if the person looked under 27 we should card them for alcohol and cigs. Unlike some other posters in this thread, I don't see much of a problem with this. I wish they'd bother looking at ID on credit card purchases too. Those new self swiping registers make it oh so much easier to make use of that stolen card.
http://www.cafepress.com/hikarudesigns/ http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=hikaru
Just make sure that the cashiers check to make sure the people are 17+. Unless it's a video game porn.
No reason to blacklist or place mature (not porn) games like GTA 3 in the porno rooms or in porno wrappers. They should be treated like rated r movies.
Hmmm... Pie...
Does anyone know of a level editer for the doom2/PrBoom engine that runs in linux? I want to make a game mod where a naked woman, Eve, runs around a garden whacking snakes with an apple branch in the first level and finishes the game by fighting through pedophile priest to eventually vanquish a homosexual televangelist who has a taste for hookers while calling fagots "an abonmination before the Lord" in last level.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
"And if this is you Mom--HAPPY BIRTHDAY!"
Who did what now?
And big fucks like you are the reason my girlfriend hates her job! Here's a newsflash, asshole: those clerks really are required by law to ID you! In fact, in my state it's required regardless of age -- she even has to ask 80-year-old geezers, because she'd get fired if she didn't.
Tell you what, why don't you post your name and address, so I can come beat the shit out of you for abusing people like my girlfriend, who are only trying to do their jobs! How would you like that, hmm?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
As for the USA... It's usually legally REQUIRED here to carry your ID card with you, and can earn you a ticket or jail if you don't. Realistically, if the cops can pull up your info in the local state database with verbal info, you're ok, but if you dig in and refuse to tell them anything about yourself you can be held for "failure to identify."
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Yup, get your gun when you are four, but the booze you wont get until you are 80 and with your parents.
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
How so? You have to carry a driver's license if you want to drive. The supreme court ruled you have to show them ID if you have it and they ask. I don't know about this "failure to identify." I'll have to look it up, but I wouldn't put it past the 5-0 to invent such a crime.
I agree - a mature rating should be fine for GTA. It doesn't need an adult rating and there should be no problem with normal stores like Walmart or EB selling GTA. It just needs to not be sold to anyone that can't buy an R rated movie. Walmart checks my id to buy spray paint and cold medicine so it shouldn't be hard for them to check for mature or adult rated games. Then it's up to the parents as to if their kid can play GTA. I wouldn't care if my kid played GTA but for parents who think it's important it should be up to them to enforce their morals.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Forget GTA, someone needs to set this man on Furcadia. At first glance, the game appears geared toward children with its bright colourful graphics and friendly mascot... until you get into the adult area. "Age play" seems to be a common fetish around there, and many members advertise both an IC and OOC age of under 18. Sure, there's a content filter, but it can be circumvented by merely editing the plaintext settings file, and any child can install the game and play for free without his or her parent even knowing.
I have nothing against it (or the furry community) myself, mind you, but I would LOVE to see Jack Thompson vs. the furries. No matter what, the internet would win.
Wow, I didn't real[se that at all actually. That's not needed at all over here (in Jersey), and as far as I know the rest of the British Isles. I'm amazed by that in fact, it seems a bit draconian.
Ratings aren't mandatory for games, it's voluntary. There are indy games that go unrated because the authors don't feel the need to submit them for rating since they aren't sold via normal channels. The prevalence of game ratings is because it is good for business, good for PR, and because the retailers like to sell rated games.
One of many reasons why I'm glad to no longer be working retail.
For sale: one sig space, gently used. Inquire for details.
In my state, clerks are required to show their liquor license and proof of age on demand by customers... Liquor sellers are LICENSED here--you don't just get a job at a liquor store... You get a job, then get a license, and THEN you can work. One of the stipulations of that license is that it be presented on demand of a customer. I'm within my legal rights (its "the law") to demand her ID--but I don't see you lining up to defend MY rights... Maybe you should offer to beat up all the clerks who balk at being asked to present their legally required license and identification... After all, if I bought liquor from somebody underage I would be breaking the law too! (Yeah, that law sucks too.) Seems like rank hypocrisy to me... And before you ask, yes, I have communicated my displeasure with the liquor laws to my state representative/state senator.
I know that when I worked at the liquor store, I checked ID for people who looked underage and I can confidently tell you I never sold to any minors--the "law" was that I had to check everybody, but everybody including the Excise Police knew that we weren't checking everybody--through the use of something called common-sense (that your generation may not be familiar with) we managed to achieve a balance between a law written in a vacuum and the legitimate interest of the community to restrict minors' access to booze.
Your girlfriend needs to quit her job if she doesn't like it. Working at a liquor store sucks, (I know, I've done it)--My guess is she'd find one of the various other flaws in the work to hate if that law went away tomorrow. Reality is: Adults don't like being denied access to something they are LEGALLY ENTITLED TO PURCHASE, especially when the gatekeeper doesn't even look legal to vote... and DOUBLE especially when I'm old enough to be the girl's father.
Also, word to the wise on challenging somebody to fight... It isn't wise (or impressive) to challenge men you've never met to fisticuffs online... The fact that you did so publicly illustrates what an empty threat you're making. And it further underlines your cowardice... If you were serious about settling this between you and I, you would have used my email address in my Slashdot profile and named your time and place, instead of trying to post it publicly and "look tough." Go home and whine to your girlfriend about your minimum-wage customer service jobs... But a better use of your energy would be to learn some skills to get better jobs.
To the specifics of your threat: 1) You don't want my address--undesired/unexpected visitors here get a really unpleasant greeting at the end of my HK. 2) You are a hypocrite and coward, grow up and realize that customer service jobs suck in and of themselves, not because I don't want my time wasted while people on Social Security prove they're old enough to buy a 6-pack. 3) If you really want to challenge somebody to fight, send them a private message. Anything else just looks like bluster. You've got my email--it's in my slashdot profile...
Who did what now?
Isn't this like sending letters to cigarette manufacturers urging them not to sell to minors? Sure they're not supposed to, but that's where half the sales come from :-/ I would think Microsoft won't try too hard to appease him...
Who's bankrolling Jack? I mean, his results haven't exactly been stellar thus far...has he had any successes? So who's paying for all this legal maneuvering?
No, it's more like going after porn publishers for making porn that a minor can get their hands on one way or another.
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
What state do you live in that you can demand a liquor license and ID from clerks? In my state (Ohio) employees don't get a lisense. They just get a job at a grocery store, baseball stadium, pizza place - anywhere that sells alcohol, and if they're 18 or older, they're selling alcohol. I've also never heard of customers getting arrested from buying from minors, I'm pretty sure the store itself would be in trouble, not the customers. Anyways, why do you want to hassle some high school or college kid making minimum wage? Just show them your ID so they can do their damn jobs and everyone can get on with their lives.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
While I do agree that requiring the ID of anyone under 60 (is that really true? 60???) is stupid, if it is law, then it is law, and the clerk is not having a power trip, he's simply doing what he must do. Don't get mad at him, get mad at the lawmakers.
Remember in school when you learned about the law system, how there were 3 independent parts... legislative, executive and judicial. There it is at work. The clerk is simply executive, and he has no power in deciding whether the law is good or not. That's for the legislative to decide (or maybe judicial to interpret), so you have no reason at all to get mad at those who apply the law. Write to your congressman for christsake. If the congressman approved a law requiring ID for people under 60, and he's the one with the power trip. If the law is really only about people under 25, and you're exagerating, then you're a jerk.
I just can't believe they can set the limit at 60... where in hell do you live that requires that?
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Yeah... a G rating is the "kiss of death."
You should give Pixar a call and warn them about how their G rated movies (Toy Story, Toy Story II, Bug's Life, Monsters Inc., Cars) are doomed to failure!
(note: think, then post)
Now, I can't speak for the PS3 as I do not own one, but in reguards to the X-Box 360 and the Wii they both have 'Parental Controls' that read the games rating, and checks it against what you allow to be played on the console. This works on All current offerings (360 games, Live arcade games, Wii games, and VC titles), but not Gamecube games (I am unsure about original X-box games, but I don't think they would support this either). So, WORST case scenario is if you don't want your kid playing T or M rated games, you lock it out.
The best part is that all 360 games have Acheivements and the child would either Keep a record that (s)he has played the game (or been playing) or give up any associated points (s)he could have earned.
What is the issue again? Do we need to pass legislation to protect society from parents who wish to remain uninformed or uninvolved in their children's lives? Is that what we're talking about?
"...there should be no problem with normal stores like Walmart or EB selling GTA."
No kidding- my wife, who is 31, actually had to show her driver's license to buy Robitussin at Walmart's last week. We got into a discussion with the cashier; the register prompts them to ask for ID for cough medicine, Pseudophed, even brake fluid (I think, whatever is used to make meth).
It would be no problem for retailers to do the ID thing and then the parents would be able to buy their kids "Whack a Mole for the Ho" or whatever. (Hmmm, sounds like a good title.....)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I remember a friend of mine being carded to buy fuel injector cleaner. Umm so if you're 17 and your car needs some what are you supposed to do? ;)
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Tell your whiny little tramp to get a real job then. Or better yet, tell her to not be a tool to be used by people in their agendas of "safety". Or act like a man, and don't defend your girl-friend. Pussy whipped loser.
And stop over-reacting, you sound like a whiny little faggot.
I doubt you have a girlfriend, and if you do, I'd love to come to her store and whine about getting asked for my ID. Then I would whine about them being out of extra large condoms. Then i'd stick my dick in her vagina. Then you wouldn't have a girl-friend. Then you wouldn't bother the seniors on slashdot anymore with your ultimate bitchiness.
You take it, I don't want it...
There is no law requiring citizens to carry identification. This has actually led to the controversy over having a "National ID" for voting: because the right to vote is reaffirmed not just within the articles of the constitution, but also within several amendments, barring a constitutional amendment requiring a national identification card to be presented when voting, there won't be any laws requiring a national id for a while. Implementation of such a law would be prohibitively expensive. See here for a more in-depth discussion.
"Tu fui, ego eris" - Virgil
The precise origin of this discrepancy escapes me at present, but I recall hearing that it had something to do with highway funding. Still, it continues to amaze me that people accept it. It strikes me as illogical to say that someone is old enough to choose to place their life at risk in the service of their country, but too young to buy alcohol.
With that said, whoever generated the 'ask for ID if the customer looks younger than X'... probably doesn't try to guess people's ages. Between older people trying to look younger, and younger folks trying to look older, doing so strikes me as pretty much impossible.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts