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Teen Accuses Record Companies of Collusion
evilned1 writes "A 16-year-old boy being sued by five record companies accusing him of online music piracy, accused the recording industry on Tuesday of violating antitrust laws, conspiring to defraud the courts and making extortionate threats."
They're not competing? NO WAI!!!
Can't wait till studios figure out this isn't the 19th century...
There is a way to make money in music/movies. Selling mass copies of media is not it.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Good for him I say! Hopefully some decent lawyers are helping him out on this.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
No matter what side of the RIAA-wars you come down on, there's something endearing about a kid who stands up to bullies.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Go kid! Let's hope the judge sides with him on this one.
Challenging recording groups under antitrust is a losing proposition -- and for good reason. The collaboration provides something worthwhile. Without this collaboration, musical works would be lost in a sea of other copyrighted works without some reasonable way of locating and licensing what you want.
The record industry has suffered enormously due to piracy. That includes thousands of layoffs. We must protect our rights. Nothing in a filing full of recycled charges that have gone nowhere in the past changes that fact.
Uh... yeah, no kidding. I thought the RIAA's past legal failures should have already taught them that. Oh, wait... were they talking about the kid's charges?
I'm a lookin for this kids web site (if he has one) and I think i'll paypal him a couple of bucks. Not standing up and saying "NO" to the RIAA is as good as saying OK. I'm glad someone is returning fire.
Silulu. Hot Polynesian Geek Chick. HPGC
No one can wrestle the Media Cartel in the legal arena and win. They will beat him into submission, extending the suit until he has no more money (or will) to battle. What I really wish (wishful thinking, actually) is to see the DOJ getting involved, just like with Microsoft. Then we maybe can see some real action. Until them, better stick to WWE, american friends.
Apparently many people have filed RICO lawsuits against these corporate extortionists but they were always dropped. Its good to see he is trying a new card with these anti-trust allegations. I wish him the best of luck
IANAL, But let's say for argument's sake that the kid is right and the record companies are 'colluding'. That seems immaterial to the charge that he violated copyright violation. Statue of Limitations I can see, but you can't use wrongdoings of others as a defense for your own, unless they are directly relevant to this case (extortion claims? But isn't that how all lawsuits work? Sue or settle?) If the case had no merit, then it shouldn't go forward at all, but I don't see how this 'collusion' defense addresses the charges at hand.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
The kid had nothing to do with the legal arguments -- the reporting is just following the convention that your lawyer speaks with your voice and your authority. Its probably the same set of lawyers who worked when his mother was sued and, inexplicably, were not called in when his sister got issued a default judgement for $20k. (Yikes! People, when the process server gives you papers, READ and ACT ON THEM. Default judgements are 64,000 flavors of nothing good!)
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
recent statistics show kids are growing up 90% faster, the average age for a mid life crisis is now 25.
seriously though, more power to him.
Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!
If the recording industry is hurting soo badly, where the hell are they getting the money for all theese lawsuits & lawyers ?
It's not like the people they win suits against can actually pay theese outragous fines.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Well, sort of. There is of course a lawyer behind it. A 16 year old might have a gut feeling that these things are taking place, but I'm guessing his lawyer suggested this particular approach...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
i say jail the bastard and nail the little fucker to a wall.. this is wrong just like the Windows logo on my keyboard....
Since he's under 18, can he even enter into a contract? Can he effectively use the court system by himself? If he can't, it's all in the hands of whatever attorney will help him (I'm assumig he's not an idle rich kid, and that he basicly has paper-route money).
This is intriguing though. For adults like myself, who have little time to spare and much to lose, quick settlements and/or rapid capitulation to affordable terms are usually the only way out. In other words, if the *AA extorted 10 percent of my wealth, it might be enough to make them go away, and it would be more expedient for me to let them do that then spend half my wealth fighting them.
OTOH, if I'm a 16-year old and I can legally ride my bicycle to the court house and file claims all summer as an "interesting lesson", then what could I lose? That has a certain appeal to it; but I doubt it will fly. They'll probably drag it out until he's 18, and can be subject to things that will bother an adult.
Still though, the idea of a smart kid sitting there in the library putting up his time and zero money, pitted against corporate lawywers who charge their clients 100s of dollars an hour, is intriguing. Even if he loses, he wins, unless they force him to pay court costs--then he's screwed.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
http://www.p2pnet.net/goliath/
Of course they've done layoffs. That's because once a star gets too big, they cost too much. It's not that hard for the record industry to create a new sensation and not have to pay them squat. Re: New Kids On The Block, Backstreet Boys, *NSYNC, The Monkees, Boyz II Men, 98 Degrees, 4ORCE, Hanson....
Completely OT, but I just noticed what the right hand sidebar on Slashdot now displays. Has Slashdot finally hit the bottom? Not only are the links nonsensical, they lead to non-products.
* Compare prices on YRO Products
* Compare prices on Legal Related Items
* Compare prices on Music
I don't want to compare prices on anything. I want News for Nerds. You'd think the people who run a site supposedly for a geek audience would have the first fucking clue wouldn't you. Obviously not.
I go to see the bands that play at the better venues in my city, and buy CD's directly from those bands that impress me. I have no need for major labels to tell me what to buy, and no need for payola-programmed radio stations that are puppets of those same labels. Support your local music scene and independent touring artists, and you can kiss the RIAA goodbye!
My truck is like a series of tubes.
Looking http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sup_01_18 _10_I_20_96.html, if they can prove that RIAA is violating any of a multitude of State fraud laws, they can also be charged under the RICO Act. Might be quite a stretch though. They may have a better case persuing this under anti-trust laws to break up RIAA.
"The papers allege that the companies, "ostensibly competitors in the recording industry, are a cartel acting collusively in violation of the antitrust laws and public policy" by bringing the piracy cases jointly and using the same agency "to make extortionate threats ... to force defendants to pay."
0 -cd-settlement_x.htm
The labels were actually found guilty of this once before:
States settle CD price-fixing case
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY
NEW YORK -- The five largest music companies and three of the USA's largest music retailers agreed Monday to pay $67.4 million and distribute $75.7 million in CDs to public and non-profit groups to settle a lawsuit led by New York and Florida over alleged price-fixing in the late 1990s...
Former FTC chairman Robert Pitofsky said at the time that consumers had been overcharged by $480 million since 1997 and that CD prices would soon drop by as much as $5 a CD as a result.
In settling the lawsuit, Universal BMG and Warner said they simply wanted to avoid court costs and defended the practice.
"We believe our policies were pro-competitive and geared toward keeping more retailers, large and small, in business," Universal said in a statement."
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-3
Maybe some of those jobs being lost should never have been there to start with
Even if the kid is completely guilty, he can get off if he can prove that the record companies engaged in certain kinds of conduct. I can't remember the exact term but it came up in a previous case. The law frowns on being jerked around by litigeous bastards.
This is /. dude. Logical discussions need not apply.
/. readers live outside the USA and you can see how not-upset we are over the RIAA [an american institution] acting like shites.
Anyways, the kid isn't a hero. At best he's a victim, at worst he's a squirming copyright infringer. Big deal.
Combine that with the fact that many
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
You know this is what they're really thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean_hands
"Unclean hands, sometimes clean hands doctrine, is an equitable defense in which the defendant argues that the plaintiff is not entitled to obtain an equitable remedy on account of the fact that the plaintiff is acting unethically or has acted in bad faith with respect to the subject of the complaint--that is with 'unclean hands'. The defendant has the burden of proof to show the plaintiff is not acting in good faith. The doctrine is often stated as "those seeking equity must do equity"."
Obviously the kid didn't think this up himself.
They said "employees", not "artists." They don't ONLY represent the artists, and there's more to what the record companies do than stick and artist in a booth and hit "record." (Cue jokes.) I'm not siding with them, but that's a straw man if I've ever seen one.
He's not using the claims of extortion and anti-trust violations as a defence. Instead, he's using them in a counter-claim.
A counter-claim isn't trying to deflect the shots, it's shooting back and making the other side do some work.
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
You're making it sound like he demanded they show the legal basis for the federal income tax
(there is none). Chances are the RIAA will cut him a deal where _they_ will pay him a couple of
grand and then go after some other poor schmuck with much weaker legal defense who has downloaded
one mp3 too many.
yeah, but your coutry has a version of the RIAA. If tyou country has a treaty with the US the RIAA can come after you to.
Welcome to the global economy, dick.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Fresh from Pacer
14 - Defendant's Answer [PDF]14 Exhibit A [PDF]
14 Exhibit B [PDF]
He was 11 when it happened, and the statute of limitations is up. Furthermore, his sister already had rights to everything he downloaded, since she owned the CD's.
I think the RIAA is going to lose this case, and it's going to set the stage for how the RIAA's patterned lawsuits start failing, time after time.
The last argument, in particular, should be able to defeat any RIAA lawsuit in court, since people buy and sell CD's all the time, and the RIAA can't prove what the person owned the rights to at the time they downloaded copyrighted music.
"His defenses to the industry's lawsuit include that he never sent copyrighted music to others, that the recording companies promoted file sharing before turning against it, that average computer users were never warned that it was illegal, that the statute of limitations has passed, and that all the music claimed to have been downloaded was actually owned by his sister on store-bought CDs."
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
Good for him!!!! I am glad to see someone stepping up and naught stepping aside.. I have been wondering for the longest time "Who is questioning the Riaa's practices? Who is being paid off to NOT ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS? If none of the afore mentioned applies, why are people going down in flames?" I mean isn't it interesting that a) this offence happened over 7 yrs ago, back in a time when this type of stuff was not advertised as being illegal and/or evidence was found to the contrary "sister was found owning the material in question on a legealy purchased CD or tape." How can these people go after a Minor? How can they enforce these issues 7+ years after the fact, I mean 7+ yrs ago, did they have the tech. to capture this transgression? If so why not go after the individual at the time of the offence, like most precedings go? How did they collect the info for procescution, how was it verified as valid? By their own investigators I bet..
I think he has something there, hopefully he will receive the support needed to Show those fuckers for what they really are.. Parasites.
Thanks for your time
gK
why is it all about money?
And that's important.
Maybe I am being too niave about this, but wouldn't a simple defense be that yes, indeed you have bought those CDs? and since they have been lost/stolen/damaged/burned-by-ex-girlfried/whateve r?
If what they now say is that you are buying a license to the music, then whose to say what you have bought?
Honestly, how many people still have ALL of the CDs, cassette tapes, 8-tracks or vinyls that they have EVER bought?
And why don't they get pissy about Second hand music shops? Hell, someone is making a profit from that.
If his claims are found legally true then their lawsuits are technically illegal themselves.
No they're not. An owner of a copyright can sue you for violating that copyright, and if they demostrate that you did in fact violate their copyright, they will win. An owner of a copyright acting in collusion with other copyright owners can STILL sue you for violating their copyright, and will STILL win if they demonstrate that you violated the copyright.
Nowhere in copyright law does is say "Do not copy copyrighted material, unless the copyright holder is acting as part of a cartel."
What is really going on here is not a defense in the sense of 'I didn't do it', it's a defense in the sense of 'Fine, you can sue me for $X, but if you don't cut it out, I'm going to sue you for $X+$Y, so maybe it's in your best interest to just leave me alone.'
paintball
Haven't read TFA, but I must say that the very idea reminds me of some recently awakened representatives of the citizens of these United States. Do I detect a change in the motion of the pendulum?
"Press to test."
(click)
"Release to detonate."
Red-flagged by SiteAdvisor. Here is the report from McAfee for p2pnet.net:
When we tested this site we found links to warezclient.com, which we found to be a distributor of downloads some people consider adware, spyware or other unwanted programs
After entering our e-mail address on this site, we received 3.7 e-mails per week.
I offer this purely as a suggestion, mind you, not legal advice:
But if the heart of your defense is that know you "nothing, nothing!" about the darker side of the P2P nets, a jury might think that this is a mighty strange place to find you.
the frown is because of menstrual blood, which was from the article you posted, and it was smeared on somebodies face.
thats just plain disgusting, and unacceptable.
if a teacher in a school did that to a child who misbehaved, that would most certainly be considered abuse.
its the same principle because these people are merely being detained, its like a cop pulls you over and suspects that you are doing something illegal, he can detain you until he can get get a warrant for further search, and during this time he rubs menstrual blood on your face.
lol not cool, and totally illegal.
This is exactly the kind of thing a 15-year-old kid would boast to his friends about... "Hey, if these fuckers came after me, why, I'd counter-sue their ass for defamation and slander, and .. and libel!". Except he's actually doing it. Yeah! That's funny! (you can +5 me funny and stuff for pointing that out!)
*blinks*
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Any lawyer who can perfect a way to make the music destroyers (do any of us doubt that the large record companies have systematically destroyed the musical arts over the last few decades?) pay a steep price for their collusion in a case like this will find plenty of courts in which to apply that method for just as long as those firms persist in their thuggery.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
The labels were actually found guilty of this ...
.. agreed Monday to pay $67.4 million and distribute $75.7 million in CDs to public and non-profit groups to settle a lawsuit
[Labels]
Settle != Found guilty
You don't have to admit guilt when you settle.
Microsoft would secretly funnel $50,000,000 into this kid's legal defense fund through some venture capital firm. =/
Dragging a 16 year old into court before a jury will hurt the RIAA more then anything. Most juries will side with the "poor" kid before they would hand judgment to a team of high priced lawyers.
Think about it:
people tend to dislike huge corporation
people tend to hate lawyers for huge corporation
No matter what happens the media will report it and public opinion will be on his side. Even if he is guilty this is a massive PR debacle. Setting an example works if the person can be portrayed as EVIL and VICIOUS (like for profit pirates) not young children. Whatever RIAA lawyer thought this was a good idea should be fired...into the sun.
So I say please keep suing grandmothers and children. Come on RIAA...aren't there Eskimo retarded paraplegics in wheelchairs who have AIDS that you can go after? Please do.
gate gate
paragate
parasamgate
bodhi... svaha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringeme
- Creating a copy and giving it to someone else. This constitutes copyright infringement in most jurisdictions. It is not infringing under specific circumstances such as fair use and fair dealing. In some countries, such as Israel, creating a copy is completely legal, as long as it was done from non-profit intentions.
- Creating a copy to serve as a backup. This is seen as a fundamental right of the software-buyer in some countries, e.g., Germany, Spain, Brazil and Philippines. It can be infringement, depending on the laws and the case law interpretations of those laws, currently undergoing changes in many countries. In the US, legal action was taken against companies which made backup copies while repairing computers (see MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc. (1993)) and as a result, US law was changed to make it clear that this is not copyright infringement.
And collusion sounds like what the oil companies do to maintain the high price of oil, working together for mutual benefit. Who needs monopolies when you have collusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CollusionThis is /. dude. Logical discussions need not apply.
/. readers live outside the USA and you can see how not-upset we are over sounding like idiots in our own posts (It's not like /. is a USA born an bred website or anything, or the topic at hand concerns the US and a citizen of the US).
Anyways, you're a fuckhead. At best you're a victim of your own posts, at worst you're an unenlightened douchebag. Big deal.
Combine that with the fact that many
How are the major record labels a "cartel?" Given the multitude of independent labels around the globe, access to inexpensive CD duplication and network-based distribution, how do these labels act as a cartel to set pricing or control the distribution of other's wares?
My personal best day in a Tower Records was walking into the Newbury Street (Boston) location when it was almost brand spankin' new, and seeing a pallet of boxes containing the new U2 CD (waiting to be unloaded) with a sheet of paper taped to the stack...and on the paper, lo, it said, "Paddle My Bum".
I did laugh, for lo, at least 30 seconds.
Tower was good for a while there but others responding to this article have already pointed out the inability to do a useful search in B&M stores that favors Amazon (for non-top-sellers at least). Having the ability to comparison shop without leaving a chair, combined with *reviews* that might actually help, means that I haven't bought a CD at a B&M shop in 5 years other than as a Black Friday/special sale/ohcrapIforgot$specialOccasion item. Yes, I do still buy CDs in addition to MP3s from allofmp3, but not by wandering around a store hoping...
Good luck to Tower, but I wouldn't buy stock in B&M stores that can't match the advantages I noted above (and I'm not aware of any that do.)
..is if you steal a $15 cd from a store, you have a right to a trial by jury, but if you're accused of stealing $30,000 of music online, it's only a civil case, so there's no right to jury. Certainly, if these copyright infringement cases were tried by jury, almost no one would be prosecuted...
Besides, what 16 year old has $30,000? That's more than most 16 year olds make in two years of working - why not throw him in jail for two years? The average bank robbery nets $5,000 or so - has he really done the equivalent of 6 bank robberies?
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
That someone can win a case like this and set a precedent that will tame this Multi-Corp Goliath that relentlessly lobbies for "share 1 file and you're a felon", and sues old grandma's that don't even have a computer! Its getting very very sick, IMO...
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure
Actually, the school analogy isn't really the best. My younger brother, while in Middle School was suspended for a while for allegedly pulling a fire alarm. However, fingerprint analysis showed that the culprit wore gloves, and my brother doesn't own a pair, and he was actually seen on another side of the school at the time. (My brother has caused plenty of problems before, and I'll admit flat out that he can be a troublemaker, but he was clearly innocent here)
Still, we learned the hard way when it comes to suspending someone, a school doesn't even need evidence, just suspicion. Part of "Zero tolerance," I guess.
As for this kid... good for him. In our legal system, one MUST be PROVEN guilty, not proven innocent.
So, RIAA, where is your proof that he committed a crime? Where is your proof that he does not legally own this music? Where is your source for your evidence, and can you prove it was legally obtained?
I don't know whether he's guilty or not, but regardless of that, I'm sick of these trials screwing with the basic principles of our law. Show us some god damn proof a crime even took place, or shut up.
...is software from other devs, not dollars. You share yours, they share their's, all of you get a ton of free and Free software to use instead of having to pay for it from some big ripoff house, plus, you get the source, meaning if you got a real particular itch to scratch you can and no one gets steamed over it or accuses you of "piracy" or whatnot.. Then you USE that software to go to work with in some other regular business, of which there are literally hundeds of thousands to choose from nowadays, check your yellow pages for some hints there, and from one of those businesses is where you make your paycheck for dollars (or whatever is local to you) at.
That's how, for most people, you "make money" with free and Free software. You get an immediate pay "in kind" (check your local repistories for free software "currency", there's a lot out there now, go ahead, help yourself), then just use that as the tools to go do regular work with. And you use BT now to share the bandwith costs if you want to, and it is certainly fair enough to offer it that way and no one minds a bit(pun intended). And a simple site with a few wiki pages is just not that expensive anymore for your main project page, and for that matter, if you look around (hint, look at top of this page), I think you can even find free hosting for even that minimal cost.
Slashdot is like the blog of CmdrTaco, kdawson, Zonk, timothy, ScuttleMonkey, Hemos, Roblimo, CowboyNeal, samzenpus, Cliff, and the other editors that still actually, uh, post here. If you want to get useful programs and libraries featured, contact Linux.com (if it at least runs on Linux ;p), NewsForge.com, or pretty much any of the other OSTG sites that post their own articles almost all the time. Hell, contact Roblimo as he loves this sort of stuff. Many articles from those sites end up on Slashdot anyhow, so go ahead and try it. I myself have learnt of dozens of useful programs (from the most obscure of obscure to the ones that any *nix admin worth his weight in gold knows) from Linux.com, and I know I'm not the only one...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Didn't you know that? I mean it is the same thing as MS and patents: while they are a monopoly, they can lose their patents by government fiat.
If the RIAA are guilty of abusing their monopoly position, they themselves can lose the right to sue (very easy to do since they don't actually own the copyrights). If Sony is found in collusion they can lose the copyrights they hold.
If the accusations are extortionate, they can be summarily dropped (similar to a SLAPP suit or action against a vexatious litigant). If they have been found to waste the courts time they can be denied to be heard. If they are found to be lying to the court, they will have to face the consequences.
The last one (lying) means that the RIAA need to spend more investigating the situation and could be fined, increasing the possible costs and likelyhood of fines. This will stop them feeling that this avenue is an easy route to money.
PS as a minor, and since the music is "licensed not sold" could the kid also argue that he cannot be bound by its limitations?
Somehow your rant is not as snappy as, for example:
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me there.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
But the same goes in reverse, three times the responsibility, three times the reward. Please report to your closest tax office and prepare to pay tripple taxes and proof you are not just another 12yr old who thinks he knows how the world should be run.
Society ain't perfect but if you want to change things you better think it through. Triple penalties for police officers? Okay, are you then going to volunteer? Offcourse not, your kind never does volunteer for anything that isn't 100% in your own self interest and taking a low paying job with high risk and now an extreem risk of a small error landing you an extreem sentence isn't exactly something that is in your self interest.
So you would in one move reduce the number of police recruits to a trickle and turn us all over to anarchy.
Sorry, kid, back to the drawing table. You might like anarchy but the majority of voters do not.
I mean, when record labels refuse to sign ANY kind of talent, for fear of sharing profits at some point, and continually serve up ABSOLUTE CRAP THAT NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD CONSIDER LISTENING TO, MUCH LESS PAYING FOR......
OF COURSE Tower stores are out of business. Maybe if they had had a few CDs worth buying, as opposed to 800 extra creed-clone bands, people would've kept buying cds.
I mean, besides the fact that the RIAA and other industry affiliates have been involved in criminal price fixing (convicted, not just accused!) for years, and that CDs have always cost too much (and still do!), do you REALLY want to buy another whiny awful CD put out by yet another insecure "punk" band, that got it's street cred by going down on a record exec and can't actually play more than the three shitty chords they've used in EVERY GOD AWFUL SONG ABOUT HIS ABUSIVE SLUTTY GF WHO IS ALL OF 18 in real life?
If Tower sold other real musicians, even terrible formulaic ones like Norah Jones and Coldplay, and weren't completely obsessed with whatever flavor of the WEAK that sony seems to want to put out, they'd STILL be in business, EVEN WITH OVER PRICED cds.
Bunch of fuckin' assholes. How DARE THEY accuse anyone of ANYTHING?!? I mean, these are the same people who basically sexually predated on Mariah Carey and Celine Dion as teenagers, gave 'em record deals, and then after a couple of gaffes kicked them to the curb in every way possible (well in the case of Mariah, anyway). These are sick fucks TO THE CORE. No wonder they think it's OK to take 11 year olds to court for downloading some shitty gangster rap that THEY ARE FOISTING ON A GENERATION WHO GETS NO REAL NEWS and can't figure out how INSECURE AND PATHETIC most of the CRAP they are listening to really is. I'm looking at you, Eminem, 50 cent, and pretty much all the latest rap.
These fuckers should all be in jail. Rootkits aside! It's their fault some teenager thought he was tough after listening to "lil thug" or something, got into car stereo jacking, and is now getting ass rammed by a partially retarded former meth addict in JAIL. Some little kid standing up to them in court?!? That's not even the BEGINNING of a reasonable amount of vigilantism. Anybody with even half a conscience oughta drive right over to Celine's husband's house and SHOOT HIM IN THE FUCKING FACE for hooking up with a teenager, even if she's now a multi-millionaire, and hideous middle aged woman, to boot. She was still just a child sex slave for a greasy dirty record producer who oughta be shot on sight.
It's so disgusting that we even debate the finer points of copyright infringement in these corporations defense. If we had a real media, all these corporations would've been shut down for anti-competitive monopolism decades ago. Anybody arguing in favor of these corporations is an absolute moron. Period.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
If they are so popular then why are they going out of business?
Anyway, your example is complete and utter bullshit. In The Netherlands there is one particular supermarket chain that is in trouble and is having to sell of lots of stores and close others. OH MY GOD! Shoplifting is causing thousands to be laid of in retail!
Well no, yes shoplifting is a cost but it is to ALL shops. No doubt it can be listed as an excuse to be taken at face value by gullible idiots but people with an IQ great then room temperature might want to ask themselves if X kills company Y why isn't it killing company Z?
Ah, but look, you gave us a link. Ooooh! Wikipedia, well that is always 100% reliable so lets read it shall we?
Tower Records entered bankruptcy for the first time in 2004. Factors cited were the heavy debt incurred during its aggressive expansion in the 1990s, growing competition from mass discounters, and internet piracy. Its policy of selling most Compact Disc recordings at list price also proved detrimental.
Tada! Well, lets see, they are missing a few things such as the after effects of the end of the internet bubble (less money to spend) the end of the CD replacement era and the reduction in the number of albums produced (more of the same with less niche material meaning fewer songs have to sell more copies to still get the same sales figures as in more music rich years).
But what you really read is mis management and the oh so typical attitude in the music industry of trying to fleece the customer to the max.
Or put another way, Tower records expanded to much, got to much debt wich they tried to pay off by charging higher prices then other stores. You can only do that if you offer an aditional value and tower records did NOT do that.
If you want the truth about how much piracy hurts the industry just look at the growth figures of the various music labels. The only thing that has happened is that the amount of growth has slowed a bit and real economists have shown that there are plenty of real reasons for that outside piracy to account for that.
In the foreign broadcasts of the Simpsons, they actually translate that. Our local one here in Sweden is "storifiera."
Think about it. In order to go after a "Real" pirate they would need to compile evidence, compelling enough to get a foreign country to go after the offended on their behalf. Several problems there:
- piracy as defined by the RIAAss/MPAAss is not a crime in all countries. I know this hasn't stopped the US much in the way of imposing its laws on other countries and totally ignoring their sovereign rights (example: VISA: you give us your nation's spending details for 'the war or terror' or you won't have US business) but the point is still that you're trying to ask a foreign government to collaborate and thus need to prove your case. Unfortunately the US haven't planned ahead by labelling pirates as 'funding terrorists' which would have enabled them to kidnap them out of their own country and lock them up outside the legal system in Guantanamo Bay.
- evidence as collected in the US may carry no validity abroad
- the host country may not be very keen on the US bullying and tell them to stick the request where it hurts.
It's MUCH easier to attack fellow countrymen. A 16 year old kid has no defense in money nor in attitude and knowledge of the system from a barrel of morally deficient lawyers and their clients and a legal system geared towards money. Those company execs are just trying to keep the show together so they can retire in a few years with shares still worth something. Believe me, they don't give a f*ck about anything else.
So, let's pick the low hanging fruit. You, me and anyone else who can be squeezed for cash.
Welcome to the 21st century - the US Constitution and its principles died a decade ago.
Posting your own articles to mass media is like making your own vanity page on wikipedia. Sure it's nice and all, but ultimately a meaningless gesture.
The only way I could tell that my work had any meaningful impact on others, is if THEY decide to talk about it amongst themselves. This hasn't been the case. so not being a complete moran I decided to just stop and focus my energies elsewhere. Nobody owes me gratitude or fame or whatever, so it's not like I demand anything from peeps.
Besides, more females at the piano studio. I've been missing out!
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Musicland is another music brick/mortar chain that went under just last year. It is not the actual artists who are suffering just yet, but certainly the stores, the sales people, the corporate managers who cut the advertising deals with the artists who are all hitting the streets. The sad part is, the people you find in mall type music stores, are usually music lovers themselves, who are fairly knowledgeabe about the music you are looking for (Just ask any mom who is trying to find the hiphop for their kids birthday). They are not too involved with the dealings of the RIAA, who claims to be on their side. They just want to go to work the next day like anybody else. If they can't sell CD's, then they have no store. True, the Walmarts have hurt them, but those types of stores usually don't carry the variety a lot of buyers might be looking for.
So for all those who swear they will never purchase a CD again, think of you are really punishing. To get to the RIAA, you need to be political and know your legal rights. Anything less and you might just be kicking you best friend in the gutt.
It's according to the CD. If it were Celine Dion or Michael Bolton, it's a crime. If it's GnR Appetite for Destruction its not. I've already bought that one 5 times. I refuse to buy it anymore.
"800 kg gorilla "?
:)
I thought the phrase was 800 lb gorilla? That would be approximately 363 kg.
Your gorilla would weigh in at 1764 lbs.
Peter Jackson, is that you?
Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
...that calling him a copyright infringer is what allows the RIAA to sue for massive amounts of damages under law? If he were a petty thief, they could do nothing of the sort.
Please, get it right, argue about the law and damages before you nitpick on what he is called.
"One-time purchase does not constitute lifetime usage."
From House Report No. 102-873(I), September 17, 1992:
"In the case of home taping, the [Section 1008] exemption protects all noncommercial copying by consumers of digital and analog musical recordings."
From House Report No. 102-780(I), August 4, 1992:
"In short, the reported legislation [Section 1008] would clearly establish that consumers cannot be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private noncommercial use."
*RIAA finds downloaded music*
RIAA - "let's go sue the mother"
*RIAA looses case*
RIAA - "let's go sue the kids!"
*RIAA eventually looses this case as well*
RIAA - "hmmm... who are we going to sue next?.. Hey! They have a cat!"
Good thing they didn't have a baby...
There's a problem with your stance.
Downloading music isn't illegal. Uploading is.
So I'll expect you to send money to support this wronged kid.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Wow, ignorant too.
You think the RIAA has no reach or influence outside of the USA? You just keep believing that.
Why are you working so incredibly hard to detract from this kid? If you care so little, why do you care so incredibly much?
Something stinks in Denmark...and it ain't the cheese.
No Comment.
Everyone's seen Star Wars and what Anikin did to the Sandpeople after they killed his mother right? Well if the RIAA suing his mom is equal to Anikin's mom being killed, then I can only imagine what a 16yr old boy with raging hormones and adrenaline his veins is capable of. Probably would give an angry Jedi a serious run for his money.
Just thought I should state the obvious.
Given that, then why are you jumping up and down screaming at the top of your lungs all over this entire thread about this subject? Of which this thread has nothing to do with in the first place?
No Comment.
Becomes speaking from experience, the OP should donate his money to smaller [equally useful] projects instead of just the big ones.
I was trying to relate how it sucks to both be poor/unrecognized and the author of software that people use [and ultimately demand support for].
maybe the OP will take something from the experience I shared and donate to the smaller projects and encourage diversity in the FLOSS world.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
There you go again.
This isn't about FLOSS. You're the one that started bitching about people wanting to donate to this kid's defence fund and brought FLOSS into the equation for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
All this is about is your selfish greed. Take it to whiney-floss-bitches.com where someone might care. Whatever you do, stop trying to hijack a completely utterly unrelated topic for your own selfish purposes.
No Comment.
Not to mention Sony/BMG selling music direct to consumers through their club for $6-7/CD. I'll bet Tower paid more than that wholesale for their CD's.
So the choice is free (illegal), discount (direct), discount (online), discount (walmart), full price (retail/tower).
Many people have valid reasons to buy less CD's. For me several factors all compound together to reduce CD purchases.
1 Value.. I spend money on thing of more value at less cost. I typicaly buy DVD's under $10. Most CD's under $10 are not worth buying.
2 Quality.. Do a Google search on volume wars and CD's. Enough said.
3 Compatibility.. I look for red book standard music CD's. There are so few round shiny things anymore that proclaim to be a Philips standard trademarked Compact Disc tm.
4 Cartel relationship.. They are suing their customers, it's time to stop supporting this pratice.
5 Good enough existing library.. I'm still ripping my LP and Compact Tape collection.
In a nutshell, they are selling a low value, low quality product at high prices and the company has shown maffia strong arm tactics which I can not support in principal.
I used to pirate VHS tapes when pre-recorded tapes were $60-$80 dollars (late 1970's) by sharing with neighbors. Blank tapes were in the $10-15 each range. Now that movies are less than blank tape used to be, I get higher qualiity at lower prices buying the DVD. The music industry has not yet made this move to combat piracy. Instead they have moved to lower quality at high prices by offering low bitrate, dynamic range compressed, DRM'ed, downloads at close to full retail price and no right of first sale. They expect me to find it of value to me? No, I find value on other products and services instead.
Most 2 hour movies are less expensive than most any 2 hours of audio recordings. How do they think it's just as expensive to produce just audio instead of audio and video. They don't need expensive sets, rendering farms, and supporting cast that the movie industry needs. So tell me again why the product is higher priced per minute?
Yes, I am saying the product is way overpriced and I chose not to buy it.
The truth shall set you free!
Wow, why bother wasting my time with such sincere folk like you around.
My point isn't that people should give me money, it's that if you're gonna donate money to someone, it might as well be useful. Help defending this kid does nothing but make lawyers rich. Supporting a kid getting through college who writes FLOSS means they can spend more time supporting the public and less time flipping burgers while they try to pay for tuition, books, and rent.
You ignorantly assume this is only about me because you choose to define the parameters of this discussion in a way such that your rant against me shows some illusion of greed. What I said in my opening statements was that there are plenty of other projects out there that need some love and attention, not just mine.
What more do I have to do to prove that it's not selfishness? Or are you just assuming that because you're an opinionless troll who has to make those around you feel worse to elevate your weak sense of self-esteem?
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
If the case had no merit, then it shouldn't go forward at all, but I don't see how this 'collusion' defense addresses the charges at hand.
The all the labels ganged up at once is the issue in that defense point. Let's say you got caught red-handed stealing a candy bar at the local 7-11. In the investigation (discovery) they found you had a much of merchandise from Wal*Mart, Target, Costco, Toys are Us, and Radio Shack. Instead of 7-11 sueing you for damages, they decided together to have the local BBB sue you for all the merchandise you had without a reciept. You do keep reciepts, don't you?
This is not Sony suing for piracy of a Sony track. This is not Atlantic Records suing for piracy of a Atlantic track. This is a bunch of supposedly indipendant companies bring the lawsuit in "Collusion" to compound dammages. This is the collusion charge.
Sony didn't catch him. Someone else did. Sony has added their name to the case in collusion with the RIAA middle man and other record companies.
The truth shall set you free!
If the recording industry is hurting soo badly, where the hell are they getting the money for all theese lawsuits & lawyers ?
Wrong! Most charges don't go to court, they go to the settlement center.
"The cartel's demand for $7500 came through the RIAA 'settlement centre,' but Santangelo plans to fight although,
So it makes its victims an offer they can't refuse - Settle. Or else. "
http://p2pnet.net/story/5925
The truth shall set you free!
The IPCC has purposely engineered a massive scientific fraud.
They added the words "well regulated Militia" because those words were clearly understood in the 18th century. "well regulated" meant well-equipped, just like a "well regulated" clock in those days was "regulated" by an efficient and well-equipped mechanism that did what a clock's mechanism was supposed to do. As for "Militia", it was considered to consist of all able-bodied male non-slaves: "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves?" -- Tench Coxe 20 Feb. 1788. Also see: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188.
The 2nd Amendment is about self-protection; both protection against ordinary evildoers who would steal from, rape, and kill citzens of these United States, and against authoritarian organizations (external or internal), that have grown so large they would steal from, rape, and kill the citizens of these United States.
The IPCC has purposely engineered a massive scientific fraud.
"Law is in large part our attempt to codify morality and ethics"
Only when it's done wrong.
I think "smooth functioning of society" is the more desired course of action.
YMMV
"Ok, that's great and all, but he was talking about the legal basis of income tax law"
I see what you are getting at but then you should also follow through with the rest
and see that there is no legal basis to _enforce_ federal income tax. Possibly people
could even win back in court to regain past payments which were made in good faith.
Of course this is theory because you can't sue for rights and property in
courts that will simply not hear your case or withhold tax or rather "protection"-money
from thugs that will shoot your family, burn down your house, throw you into prison
and to top things off ridicule you in the media.
So you see even though it is not really feasible to avoid being shaken down because
they will go as far as kill you for it, the collection of federal income tax still
has no legal basis whatsoever.
... I go to iTunes... darn, not 18, no creditcard - can't pay. ... I go to Amazon... dang, not 18, no creditcard - can't pay ... I go to gunvor... $2 / song? and payable over SMS? ONE PER SONG?! ... I think not..
So where do I get my legal downloads?
I can't believe how off-topic the comments are here. It's incredible. Is anybody talking about the case itself?
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
"The only way I could tell that my work had any meaningful impact on others, is if THEY decide to talk about it amongst themselves. This hasn't been the case. so not being a complete moran I decided to just stop and focus my energies elsewhere. Nobody owes me gratitude or fame or whatever, so it's not like I demand anything from peeps."
You are demanding something from others: public recognition. If that isn't true, why did you stop writing OSS?
You know that your contributions made a meaningful impact: other, larger, more famous projects incorporated your work, and it's making its impacts through them. If your work had no value, nobody else would use it.
The public is fickle. Most musicians that are hot and chatted about now will be half-forgotten in five years. Only musicians who create solid work will be remembered as musicians in the long run.
I'll bet similar rules apply to open source.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
If you follow John Yoo's reasoning ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo ) law professor at UCB ... .. it would be legal to crush the testicle of infants with pliers.
... and that's where the
e ing_asked_justify_crushing_childrens_testicls.htm
contributor to the Patriot Act and author of the infamous torture of enemy combatant memos
Just to show what kind of people we're dealing here with, Yoo maintains his opinion on the _legality_
of torturing infant children all the while acknowledging that it is morally wrong to do so.
The painfully obvious conclusion that "The Law" is immoral escapes him
parallel to you comes in GeffDE. You seem to be just as anxious to preserve a positive perception of the
law here in this thread and I frankly wonder why.
People who want to find out more about who is saying it is legal to crush children's testicles should
watch this:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/torture_yoo_b
--"I made absolutely no comments about perception of the law."
7 7175242198 Freedom To Fascism
As I said it is obvious from your tenacity here that you are trying to salvage
a positive perception of "THE LAW" here (your capitalization, my quotation marks).
I'm sorry but "That income tax law has a legal basis in the Constitution" is superficial
analysis and grossly insufficient.
People who want to learn more about the subject should also watch Aaron Russo's
Freedom To Fascism documentary which explores the IRS's unwillingness (inability) to
reveal the legal basis for collecting federal income tax. About half-ways into the
documentary Russo interviews a former IRS director. I recommend you at least watch
that interview.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-43127302
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
--"There is no need to drag the IRS into this".
There obviously is. People who have watched Aaron Russos
Freedom to Fascism would _love_ to see you repeat the experiment.
Go ahead and do it, come back and surprise us.
--"And while I agree that memes such as "hater" and "hate speech" are debilitating to a good discussion, I was not invoking either. I was saying that it is obvious that you are feel an intense and passionate dislike of taxes. That fulfills the definition of hate. Therefore, you hate taxes. I am not applying a label to you; I am saying that you hate taxes."
First you say you're not doing it and then you turn around and slap the hater-label on me.
A classic, but it has the downside of being easy to spot.