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Homeland Security Tests Snoop Computer System
Parallax Blue writes "The Washington Times reports that Homeland Security has developed and is testing a new computer system called ADVISE (Analysis, Dissemination, Visualization, Insight and Semantic Enhancement) that collects and analyzes personal information on US citizens. Relevant data 'can include credit-card purchases, telephone or Internet details, medical records, travel and banking information.' The program apparently uses the same process as the Pentagon's Total Information Awareness project, which was aborted in 2003 due to privacy concerns."
which was aborted in 2003 due to privacy concerns
If by aborted you mean "renamed, swept under the rug and kept secret this time", yes, it has been "aborted".
Rules for naming projects:
...
1) Choose a word you like. Or better, that the boss/sponsor likes.
2) Reverse engineer an acronym to fit. Sort of.
3)
4) Profit!!!!!
Don't tell me it ain't so.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
But TIA was part of the military. This is for the defense of our homeland, so the trade-off in liberty must be worth it.
Granted, data mining can dig a lot of interesting info out of big databases. But to me, there are two big problems with these type of programs:
1. Guilt by association: When they are doing "linkage analysis" using your phone records etc, how many people will be swept up in the "terrorist" net because they visit the same library as a "terrorist", or got called by accident, or shop at the same Wallmart?
2. Mandate drift: We all know that now it is "the terrorists", soon it will be "the terrorists, the child abusers, the drug dealers, the guys who hit little old ladies, ...". But with the sorts of data mining they are doing, they could just as easily pick out groups of probable (insert political affiliation here). How would you like the FBI showing up at your door because some data mining program thinks that you are probably going to protest a visit to your hometown by the president?
http://infowars.net/articles/march2007/080307TIA.h tm
The part I really love, is their logo. A giant eye of Horus with beams coming out of it encompassing the Earth.
Is it me or does anyone else find that just the slightest bit odd?
Funny how this came out just as we are hearing on NPR that the FBI underreported by 20% their use of so-called "National Security Letters", and how there is insufficient oversight on their use, according to the DOJ inspector general.
Ok, I gave up on the U.S. quite a while ago. If *that* is the freedom you were proclaiming for the last few decade, then let me move to the USSR...oh, you brought them *democracy*...damned! :)
As long as good (old) Europe is free(until you bring us democracy too;) I'll just stick to my side of the atlantic (and the channel).
But seriously, U.S. citizens, aware of their surroundings, must be pretty frustrated by these moves.
Delta-Mike November Bravo Tango
I think it has gotta do with helping corporates than fighting terrorism.
Such mining of data by any single corporation is almost impossible without the HP-Pretext suits.
Hence, if the corporates pay the politicians to make the Govt. to undertake such a study, they can benefit from it.
Why else do we need to analyze credit card statements, spending patterns, etc?
Since politicians, especially republicans have no qualms about spending our tax money on such a thing, they give it a sinister (FUD) name that talks about "terror" in the same way Iraq ties to terror...
This way people think the Govt, is working for them, while the corporates which sponsored the study are laughing all the way to bank with increased targeted marketing opportunities.
I think congress should impeach both Prez and VP at same time and file charges under PATRIOT Act.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
I wondered when this would come on-line. The've been working on the infrastructure since Echelon and TIA went undercover sfter te recol
It is done in the USA, Blair then copies the ideas in the UK, then this stuff is harmonized up to EU level as an anti-terrorism measure. So you're not safe from this stuff in Europe either.
e /
There's examples with SWIFT.
SWIFT violated Belgium banking law and EU privacy law, and USA FISA law when it handed all it's data to the NSA & CIA. UK banks were complicit in this, and would also face prosecution.
Instead, the EU Commission took over the case from the Belgiums to 'coordinate the response', and are currently agreeing a treaty to legalize the sending of data to the USA as an anti-terrorism measure. So they're setting Europe up as a satellite nation to the USA.
The UK banks meanwhile, are writing to their customers and changing their banking agreements to make what they did legal:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/07/bank_prob
So now they're making themselves immune when they hand data over to foreign governments.
But now if China wants the EU data from HSBC or Citibank or any other major international bank that operates both in the EU and China, then the bank can simply hand over the data to keep the Chinese happy and their banking terms permit it.
So you are not safe in Europe, as long as people like Blair follow the Bush lead. To prosecute the SWIFT case, either the Belgium prosecutors have to stand up to the USA on their own, of it's handed to the EU, but they can't do anything without unanimous consent, so Blair would block any action to protect Europe's interests.
There is no-one fighting Europe's corner here.
We've got something similar to this, it's called:
Assimilating,Reasoning,
Statistical,
Enhancement,
Highlighting,
Online,
Linkage and
Encryption
Luckily no-one cared about our version as we've already got CCTV everywhere.
Welcome to the surveillance society. Come on in, just don't say anything that might result in your arrest. Things like: 'I'm not too fond of our current administration, I may vote for someone different next time,' are a definite no-no. Just stay on-message, never have anything to hide and you will be fine!
I'm going to transform myself into a mighty hawk. Either that or I'll just go and work at Dixons, haven't decided yet.
May the Maths Be with you!
Did you ever forget to report that extra income you made mawing lawns in that summer, well you hid money from Uncle Sam and you probably used it to fun al-Qaeda which makes you a terrorist.
Did you ever think bad thoughts about the president? Well are definetly a terrorist.
Did you ever use encryption? Only pedophiles and terrorists use encryption so you are probably a terrorist.
Taking all this into consideration, we (the DHS) are offering you a once in a lifetime opportunity to travel. You'll be scheduled on the next flight to Egypt on our luxurious private jets. You'll be viziting old prisons and other historical sites where you'll get to take part in exciting age-old interrogation by torture performances to learn local culture and expand your horizons. Oh and...you'll be the one being interrogated, oh and... it's not a performance. Kthxbi
Canada seems pretty reasonable. I'm going through the immigration process as have married a Canadian. As you're probably an American (judging by the reaction to that article!) you'll be able to integrate very well up here. In many ways the countries are very similar (the kinds of shops, the cars people drive etc.) Europe and the UK were a big culture shock for my wife and probably would be for you too (I'm from the UK). More importantly: in a study on privacy rights Germany then Canada were the top two.
To immigrate you may want to consider refugee status, sounds bad but the description fits quite well:
(Emphasis mine)
If you are seriously that scared of this project, and can prove it when you get here, then do it. There are more conventional routes of course: skilled worker for example.
I'm going to transform myself into a mighty hawk. Either that or I'll just go and work at Dixons, haven't decided yet.
There is no "consensus" in the tech community about "open" and "privacy". There is one on Slashdot, but I assure you that this is far from the real world situation.
Projects such are these are FUN. They pose a great challenge and you get to shape the system as you wish, as very often the project goals are dictated by people that have no idea how to implement it, so developers dictate the budget and the actual implementation.
Most people get over the ideological technology crap after a certain age.
My Starcraft 2 Blog
Welcome to our 'democracy'.
You cannot control a democratic country by force but you can easily do it with fear and lies. Here is the algorithm:
--Fuck up a country algorithm:--
Input: Country founded on freedom, democracy, individual privacy
Output: Complete government control, 0 rights, 0 privacy
1. Make the people afraid. Could be anything, terrorists, communists, mexicans, chinese, witches etc.
2. Tell them that you can make the fear go away if they just willingly relinquish a little bit of their rights and freedoms.
3. Repeat 3 until no more rights and freedoms remain
4. Done.
"Where do they find the assholes to work on a project like this?"
Right here, my friend, right here.
Watching the recent Libby trial, it appears there is a long line of people who will do just about any dirty job the administration wants done. Lying? no problem. Torture? OOh, Ooh, ME, ME. Smear a critic of the administration? (hundreds of right-wing bloggers raise their hands). Call a decent liberal candidate who has been married 29 years and has 5 kids a "faggot"? Ann Coulter.
There is never a shortage of people who will hurt others for profit.
You are welcome on my lawn.
>>Most people get over the ideological technology crap after a certain age.
i love this stentence..
as a college student i get something similar where they say "oh you need some 'real world' perspective".
apparently "ideology" stands for having a soul, while "real world perspective" stands for selling it down the river for a quick buck.
i dont know but im really considering remaining poor simply to retain some modicum of morality... maybe start a business building real wood furniture (even major vendors are using particle board now adays)
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For having so much dead during the blitztkrieg of the german during 1940 and then surrendering when there was no hope of counter attack ? Coward for resisting the foe and making "terrorist" act on german troup and collaborator ? Coward for saying "No" to bush when he attacked a country which had no tie to 9/11 under false pretense of WMD ? Remmemebr the massive citizen protest in those "coward" countries ? Please define coward. Those act took a lot more civic responsabilities than msot of the reaction I saw on the west side of the atlantic against the Patriot act or the war in irak.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It's Masonic, or maybe Theosophist if you prefer. As long as it's in the Capstone, I don't think the actual look of the eye matters much. An Eye of Horus or 'udjat' looks much more gothicky. You can google it easily enough.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
and not to seem like a hyppocrite, but those people really should be hunted down and put into death camps..
one more round of genocide, but this time get rid of the people who actually promote iniquity and genocide themselves..
in this case i really do think 2 wrongs would make a right.
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Do you honestly believe that? I think that says something about you. Would you be really surprised if I told you that a lot of people do honestly love their spouses and children more than life. I know I would give my life up for my wife or child without thinking twice about it. I like to believe that most average/normal individual would. Maybe I am optimistic but your point of view is disturbing (to me at least).
I do know that people can be very greedy and cruel but they can also be honest, compassionate and loving. Sometimes the same person will exhibit either of these, either randomly or under certain circumstances.
It seems also that you probably encountered more people of the first kind, while I _chose_ to associate with the second kind, that probably explains our different view of basic human nature.
The question that should be asked about any new piece of anti-terrorism legislation or any anti-terrorism program is simple. If this program was in place before September 11, would it have stopped the catastrophe or made it less serious (e.g. the planes still being hijacked but the world trade centers not actually being hit or collapsing)?
If the answer to this question is NO then the question must be asked, is it worth giving up our civil liberties for a program or law that would not have stopped the terrorists in the first place. And the answer to that should be a resounding NO.
Unfortunately as long as we have politicians who are more willing to listen to a man named after a plant than after the people who voted for them in the first place, we will continue to see anti-terrorism programs and legislation that erode our civil liberties without even doing anything that would have actually had an effect on the September 11 hijackers in the first place.
I would say "thank god I don't live in America" but given that our prime minister will do anything Bush says and then some, we too are seeing all sorts of nasty laws that we don't need and that do nothing to benefit our country or stop terrorism. Thankfully there is an election coming up later this year or so and I can go and do my bit to vote the bastard Howard and his party out of office (I just hope more people follow suit)
They can print as much of that as they want. It's about control. Having the power of life and death over people, and maintaining a base of power. They're now finished with the illusion of democracy and constitutional law, because they don't think they need it any more now they have technology. After this massive Big Brother world government, we will also see forced drugging, sterilisation and the religion of the State. Americans, the people who are doing this have no interest in your displays of enthusiasm for jingoistic hegemony. They want your fear.
I'm guessing they hired developers from other countries just like MS does, they have no adversions to spying on the american people,
Actually, in order to work on such projects, you usually have to be a US citizen and pass plenty of US government tests of loyalty to US principles.
And you seem to forget that these projects were created by US governments elected by US citizens. This is what the majority of Americans want, either because they voted for it, or they didn't bother to vote and they didn't bother to participate in the political process otherwise.
What have you personally done to work against these kinds of programs? Unless you have gone through some extraordinary trouble, you have no justification to whine about it afterwards.
This is no different from a supermarket loyalty scheme, except that you can't opt out.
The sooner Homeland Security start offering discount points and a frequent flyer program the better - to reward loyal citizens - otherwise it's just a rip-off.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
While on contract with ABN AMRO several years back, I sat near a team of Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) weenies.
I am not at all exaggerating when I report that the team of four/five spent approximately two full weeks of 7 hour days 'brainstorming' an acronym for the 'Business Process Re-Engineering' project they were working on.
I never did find out what they came up with.
They roll their own.. They offer big promises to college students, and train them up. There's also an industry tied in with defense and aerospace, which has 1 customer: the government. They are secretive private companies that are often considered a part of the government.
"What have you personally done to work against these kinds of programs? Unless you have gone through some extraordinary trouble, you have no justification to whine about it afterwards."
I don't understand that line of reasoning. So if I were to, say, trash your car when it is parked outside somewhere you would have no "justification to whine about it" because you did not go through "some extraordinary trouble" to prevent it ?
What was missing from the article was that they have embedded the Snoop computing system into the robotic Defense Optimized Garden Guard (DOGG). The Snoop DOGG has been optimized for replacement of canines presently servicing as security personnel at key DoD facilities.
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
If only I could moderate you insensitive clod... I'll just have to mod you somth.....oh!
Everyone has a price. Not everyone with the technical ability to do this agrees with you. Some people care far more about the technical challenge of implementing the system than the uses to which it will be put. Some people sincerely believe that it's necessary. Some people simply don't believe that it will ever be misused.
I'm guessing they hired developers from other countries just like MS does, they have no adversions to spying on the american people
Yes, because the only people on earth to object to this sort of thing are American; everyone else would pay to be given the chance to participate, especially if it meant spying on Americans. Bigot.
I don't care what they were paid... for most of us it wouldn't be enough!
No, for you, it wouldn't be enough; plenty of people would set aside whatever misgivings they had (if any) if enough money was waved at them. Do not make the mistake of believing that everyone thinks as you do; they do not. You have been seduced by a small, non-representative cross-section of the population who post to slashdot, mouthing off on a website with no comeback and who aren't in that situation and likely never have been.
Would I do it? I don't know. I'd like to think not, but I suspect that if enough money was offered, I'd say yes. Money isn't everything, but it sure as hell makes life easier; it would be very easy to think "If I don't do it, someone else will, so I might as well see that me and mine are taken care of".
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Jesus... Is that you?
What I don't get about the slashdot community is how articles such as this one lead to pointless, angry rambling, while stories on similarly worrisome developments in foreign countries (think videotaping violence in France, banning of Nazi memorabilia, ...) are usually met with a load of hateful comments on the inferiority of the countries in question. Just take the "America is the freest of all" postings. They could fill books. Most of you people here are from America, so why don't you actually try to take some action against what is wrong in /your/ country? I like America a lot, probably much more so than a lot of people in Europe and other parts of the world do. I just want to point out that it is attitudes such as these that lead to a negative opinion about the US in the first place. Opinion changes quickly, though. I do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the transatlantic friendship. Just realize that your state is not /inherently/ the best one, but that it takes effort for it to serve as a role-model.
"Oh, what's that? Yeah, you guys have a fair swing of power now and are still doing nothing."
Come on now, there was a whole quarter inch of snow in DC the other day for an hour or so. You can't expect them to go to work in that kind of weather can you?
The system is broken. Anyone who follows a party has missed the point of having a multi-party system anyway. Candidates should be elected based on their positions, not on their party. Unfortunately too many of us don't care enough about the "issues" and the rest of us can't outweigh the corporate and "special interest group" dollars that get thrown at Congress all the time.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
What tests of loyalty to US principles would you be speaking of? I've certainly never had to pass any of them, except to sign lifetime non-disclosure agreements and take a polygraph. Neither of which amount to much of anything unless I actually disclose specific classified information.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
I never said that most people wouldn't. I said ~30% of people would, so around ~70% of people wouldn't. Again, I don't think this is an unreasonable estimate.
There are lots of good people out there. There are also a lot of bad ones. I'm puzzled as to how anyone can go through life without meeting both types. I find that you can't seperate these two grouping by attending social functions, clubs, events, prisions, etc. Invariably, no matter where you go, you're likely to encounter roughly the same proportions of both types.
I consider myself an optimist by the way.
May the Maths Be with you!
i mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
put aa batteries in buildings with:
1 - proximity censors
2 - automated radio warnings for unwitting pleasure pilots
jets travel at some 600 mph.. in crashes usually the largest pieces left (besides the tail which almost always survives) are the size of dinner plates..
so, it's a question of the greater good.. shred a plane full of already doomed passengers with AA fire to mitigate the damage it will do to the building it is about to impact.
i'd say one battery on each corner every couple hundred feet would do the job. place the automation control system in a reinforced vault in control of the local national guard.. end of story.
THAT would have prevented the collapse of the towers by shredding the planes into chunks the building would have withstood rather than a reinforced metal lance.
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--"The program apparently uses the same process as the Pentagon's Total Information Awareness project, which was aborted in 2003 due to privacy concerns."
This _is_ the Total Information Awareness project and work on it was
never stopped for a moment. I don't mean to disrespect the submitter but
it doesn't take a lot of deep thinking to see that.
We need more fluoride in the water, homeland assholes.
Face it, the laws being passed by democracies around the globe to 'defend ourselves from (terrorists who hate freedom/pedophiles who love nine year olds/teenagers who are just naughty' make it seem like fascism won the second game...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Oh, no we're doomed, I tell you! I read it in a comic book somewhere.
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
you act as if the statement i made was aimed at republicans.
not to burst your bubble or anything, but it's not about a partisan attack.
there are certain people in this world who will fulfill any morally reprehensible task they are requested (and those people who request them).
these people are pure unmitigated evil and a cancer upon our species, and should be removed.
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You are clearly an idiot. You just took what he said out of context, he never said that he himself would do it. He said that he believed that a significant portion of humanity would. Would you deny that there is one person in the world unstable enough to accept this challenge. Clearly there are people who have killed for a lot less, so the only thing to argue about is the proportion.
ignore this post.. somehow it got connected as a reply to some other post in my profile when it was not..
this might be another bug in the "new discussion system", like the one a couple months back where random replies would end up completely disconnected from their original threads.
"these are not the droids youre looking for. move along"
this is rather funnny though.. because now it just looks totally random!
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someone really needs to convince the public to stop being so afraid so that politicians will stop pulling the wool over their eyes and pushing bad legislation through in the name of "protecting the people".
I remember a town hall meeting in days after 9-11, lot of people spoke but two stuck out in my mind. One was a single mother with two kids who got up and started bawling about who was going to protect her. Nauseating enough but she was followed by another man who volunteered to give up his privacy in the name of security and he got a rousing round of applause. I found both of them to be thoroughly disgusting. I despise pussies who let fear push them around and are willing to surrender the core values that made America a great country in exchange for the illusion that we are somehow safer. But we're swimming against the tide. The bulk of our countrymen don't value freedom as much as the illusion of security.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Honestly, beyond wwriting letters to our members of congress, what control does the American public have over this sort of thing? It's getting to the point that I feel rather powerless over my government. Last I looked, we were supposed to control them, not the other way around.
Quiz: True or False -- On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your middle name?
Several of you have been asking "could this program have prevented 9/11?". No, absolutely not. Did we all forget that after 9/11 all of the intelligence agencies dug into their records and found all kinds of warning signs and other indicators that 9/11 was going to happen?
Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but the point is they had the intel necessary to predict and prevent this, but it was lost in the noise. What they need is not more electronic noise to sift through (and electronic wild goose chases to go on) but better human intelligence. Grepping through all of the worlds internet traffic and phone records is not nearly as useful as having a single agent embedded with a terrorist group or even paying a couple of informers in the "extremist Muslim" community.
One can reasonably argue that flooding the TLA agencies with this data will make their jobs harder and the overall counter terrorism situation worse. What it will accomplish however is pumping mullions of dollars into the private contractors, while allowing the intelligence agencies to justify raising their budgets and hiring more people to run this program. Which do you think is the real goal?
This is not about catching terrorists OR spying on Americans in an effort to turn us into a 1984 police state. It's about money, plain and simple.
Finkployd
> put aa batteries in buildings with: Ohhhhh I thought you meant the *duracell* type of batteries!! How very confusing that would be.
And if you told them to surrender their mouse pads and screen cleaner, doubtless they'd hide those and drag them back out when you weren't looking, too.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
> I tend to think that if you offered enough money say >$100 million, or equivilent incentives, for someone to kill their own family, children and > all, getting away scott free That's an awful lot of money...on the flipside, it's a f*cking henious act. I'm a capitalist, and known for being callous, but I would never, ever, ever, entertain such a thought. That's just so hideously wrong, I can't even empathise enough to see where you're coming from. Never in '$100 million' years.
Homeland security, TIA, etc. are programs put in place by the democratically elected government of the United States. If you think there's a problem with those programs and you are a US citizen, it's not just your choice, it is your duty to participate in the democratic process to change them. If you're a US citizen, you are personally responsible for what the US government does because the US government represents you and is done with your consent. That's what it means to live in a democracy.
In contrast, if you trash my car, that's a crime. I have already done what I need to do about it, namely elected a government and paid for a police force that catches and punishes criminals. I don't even complain about it, I just expect that the courts and the police catch you and punish you. And if they don't manage to do that, I get active in politics in order to make sure they get the funding they need to do their job to my satisfaction.
but in reality to get their oil.
Honestly -- lay off the Kool Aid. Take a look at the amount spent on the Iraq war sometime. It's a vast sum; easily enough to have just bought Saddam's cooperation (and let's face it, he was desperate for friends anyway) and all the oil under Iraq.
If you're going to come up with conspiracy theories, at least make them plausible. The "OMG it's blood for oil BLOOD FOR OIL" thing just doesn't fly. If oil had been the goal, it could have just been purchased. It's not like the U.S. has a ethical problem with funding repressive dictators when it suits us.
I'm not really justifying the war per se, but you're going to have to look a little harder if you want to find its root causes. As usual, it's not something that can be rendered down to a three-word slogan. I think in large part, it had to do with the American populace wanting their government to kick the living shit out of some brown-skinned somebody's (and the government only too happy to oblige -- war being a far easier condition to manage than peace), and when the whole thing in Afghanistan didn't look like it was going to go anywhere satisfying in a hurry, Iraq was a convenient target for our collective spleen-venting: it was big, flat, filled with people we either didn't like or didn't care about, and we had good maps from the last time we'd taken a stroll through. Kind of a no-brainer.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
ACLU ? What's that ? I vaguely remember some organization fighting for American Civil Liberties but ... I don't think it was the ACLU, they just fight for dumb meaningless crap... such as men having sex with little boys. Part of me thinks we're all screwed and the world is headed for another round of "Dark Ages" , but some say I am pesimistic. :0)
Eye for an eye and half of the world will have just one eye!
You can't catch terrorists because there is no profile for terrorists. This system is going to catch lots of people who are not terrorists.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
> The Washington Times reports that Homeland Security has developed and
> is testing a new computer system called ADVISE (Analysis, Dissemination,
> Visualization, Insight and Semantic Enhancement)
They renamed it this after they realized an unfortunate problem with the previous name, Analyze Static States For Understanding Citizen Knowledge.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
DevelopMassivelyPrivacyInfringingSoftware(); while(1) { while(PublicDoesntKnowAboutIt()) { UseIt(); } ChangeItsName(); // haha, suckers!
}
You gotta love the Orwellian genius of our darling public servants. Think I'll pen a new law for Congress and the Senate to consider: the Love America And Freedom act. The text of the bill demands immediate impeachment and war crimes trials for the Bush administration. If you disagree with the bill, obviously you hate America and Freedom.
Ask me about my sig!
That's going to be an awful lot more expensive than not doing anything, and it only counters one specific attack vector. Figuring out who terrorists are and intercepting them is a much better use of resources.
Data mining doesn't work because if you run 10,000 innocent people through a system that is 99.99% accurate, it tells you you have a terrorist. Using databases to work backwards from people that you already have excellent probably cause to investigate, in order to find other people to 'take a look at', is a fine idea, as long as there are good controls in place.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I think that estimate is a little high. Look up the statistics for percentage of the population with personality disorders, specifically narcissistic, anti-social, and borderline for a better estimate.
There are some interesting recent experiments in economics and games theory. Less than ten percent of the population will generally act in an unfair and unjust manner unless the whole system is unfair and unjust. Most people are far more motivated by notions of reciprocity and fairness than by self interest.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
There are plenty of technologies that could be seen as evil, and pervasive surveillance is an obvious candidate.
Think about the software that controls weapons, e.g. missiles. Written by people just like you. How do they justify making software that is intended to kill people? Well, they tell themselves that it will only be used when necessary. The contract isn't with the "War Ministry", it's with the "Department of Defence". So that's all right then. The missiles aren't inherently evil, they just enable evil, and the DoD promises to only use them for good.
Think again about DRM software and TCPA. I bet every techie knows what the FSF and EFF say about DRM and TCPA. But still these things have been designed and implemented by people just like you. How many worked on Vista? None of them thought they were working on "evil technology". DRM and TCPA are just features. There's nothing about them that says they have to be used for evil. They just enable evil. And evil isn't mentioned in the business plan.
It's the same with mega population databases and pervasive surveillance. Sure, it could be used for evil. Yes, that's the most likely scenario. But it's just technology. It's not inherently bad or good. And the politicians say it will be used for good, e.g. catching terrorists. People just like you will design it, implement it, and probably only begin to regret their actions a decade later.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Silly me, I was under the impression that those were protected execpt in cases of actual criminal activity...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
What tests of loyalty to US principles would you be speaking of? I've certainly never had to pass any of them
If you're born a US citizen, you don't. If you're a foreigner being hired for these jobs (as the posting suggested), then you do, either as part of your immigration process, or as part of your hiring process, or both.
I did some quick research, what they came up with can be found here: BPR.
I'm sure they had a tough time decidig between BPR, BPRE, BPR-E, and BPRe. I'm also sure that they had an easy time billing the client for those hours.
I'd bet plenty of PHBs pronounce it as "beeper", which I'd also bet leads to all kinds of confusion as the sales force long ago upgraded from beepers to cell phones to crackberries.
That, and "Beeper" sounds like the name of a muppet.
Oh well, I suppose I'll log off and go watch whatever basketball game's on espen right now.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
"you are personally responsible for what the US government does because the US government represents you and is done with your consent"
I'm not a citizen of the US so things may be different over there, but over here we are not personally responsible for the actions of our government nor do they ask for my personal consent before they make their decisions.
"And if they don't manage to do that, I get active in politics in order to make sure they get the funding they need to do their job to my satisfaction."
Again, things may be different in the US but over here we can't just go and change our career and take up politics just because our car was trashed (or any other event has occured which is worth whining about). Besides, with all the different parties and stuff going into politics doesn't guarantee a position in power. And even if your party would be elected into power there are still a lot of other people with different views around you so getting the extra funding to combat car-trashing may not be as easy as you make it sound.
So in the meantime, whining is a perfectly good means of expressing your opinion. And expressing your opinion is something I *do* consider to be an integral part of a democracy...
Apparently "ideology" stands for having a soul, while "real world perspective" stands for selling it down the river for a quick buck.
It's especially wacked because most youth don't have an ideology, at least not in its root meaning of having some Platonic Ideal of the world that they wish society would conform to. Fresher, younger eyes aren't comparing what they see in the world to some grandly worked out set of ideals so much as just taking a real look at it and using common sense and feeling to discern what's wonderful and what's ugly about it. It takes years of re-education in the "real world" to stop directly seeing what's good and bad in the real world and subscribe to some unreal ideology - such as the builders of our current military-industrial pyramid are squandering our resources and heritage to foist on the world.
It's decrepit old men behind most of the ideology on Earth. They foist someone younger on us as a false front occassionally - thus was the relatively-youthful Bush put forward rather than Cheney for the figure head; but they're well-aware that the lack of binding ideology in a younger person can be dangerous to them - thus the end of JFK.
As for authentic wooden furniture - there's a lot of money in that if you're comfortable selling custom pieces to the super rich - the same folks who still build houses that aren't essentially particle board wrapped in plastic.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Heil Bush!
Just because it's been banned/illegal means it ok to do if your "Homeland Security".
It's sickening how often we can reference Orwell nowadays, but that is where we've landed ourselves. Speaking of Orwell, how has history viewed Stalin?
People are going to say "well, if you're doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about". As if people have the right to judge me, of course. And that's the problem: who's doing the judging? Just what is "wrong" and "right"? Yes, we know that something that hurts another person is definately wrong, I'm not debating those issues. What I'm debating is someone searching for evidence to support themselves, and using nothing but circumstantial evidence.
For instance, say it's a rape (this is hypothetical). They don't have DNA evidence, but you're a suspect. You didn't do it. Well, hey, look at that, didn't you use your credit card to rent a porno? Or sign up for a porn site? Or make a purchase at an adult novelty store? I guess you really are a pervert...
The thing about this is that yes, that above example has a remote chance of happening, but the fact of the matter is that IT DOES HAVE THAT CHANCE. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, after all. And furthermore, not only could the government use this to build a possible profile against anyone from potential terrorists to potential dissidents (we already consider anyone that calls out against a war or a policy "un-American"), but it could be used as marketing fodder. This brings us much, much closer to - even unofficially - government sanctioned products; think Budweiser can come out with Victory Beer? And if you think this is highly sceptical, remember who got that contract to clean up in Iraq.
It's getting to the point where everything about our lives will be indexed and viewable to anyone that wants to within any reason whatsoever. We are becoming a fascist government with just enough Democracy to fool people into thinking they're in charge. Something needs to be done. NOW.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
i think you could count the number of buildings tall enough to be a target on one hand.. if you go liberally it could fill one 8.5 x 11 in piece of typing paper.
... i think a couple cwis or sam launchers are a bit less than that ^^;;;
compare that to HS and TSA budgets
as far as being the guy on the plane.. since a very young age i've resigned myself to the fact that.. if my plane crashes.. they'll be picking up random parts of my corpse and playing go fish ; )
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I fully expect any Snoop Computer System to include a diamond-encrusted pimp cup and lots of topless girls smoking bubonic chronic.
steampunk web design
Do you mean on Wall Street? There are thousands of buildings that are 'tall enough', all you have to do is ask the people inside of them.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Seems the USA have learned a lot from the practices in the former communist world. But then, all totalitarian governments act much the same, independent of the outside rethorics.
he never said that he himself would do it And where did I say that he would do it?
Oh well no need to waste my time with you. Go take English 101 again then come back.
Anyone who believes that the "Total Information Awareness" project was scrapped is misguided. Until the US creates a Constituional Amendment which defines a citizen's right to privacy, the government and in particular the police/injustice arm of the government will pursue developing this capability vigorusly. It is the technology that make despotism possible in secular society, why wouldn't they want it? -D
That's all I really have to say.
Before you go boohoo for the ones plagued by communism all I have to say that there are examples of people that revolted and kicked them out. So there you have it.
If you talk about moving to another country 'cause your gov is corrupt/bad/mean/stupid you are talking the easy way out. Way to take the high moral ground when you actions speak so clearly.
Fourty-two!
Do you have any links?
I'd like to read up on that.
Do a google search on "Fairness reciprocity economic research." Look up game theory and behavioral economics on wikipedia. I also found a website a few days ago that gave a nice summary of the terms.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Cool. Thanks a lot, man.
Yes, because little children always deserve to be genocided by their own country's government.
You, sir, are an ass.
What ever happend to the ACLU? Ever since Bush and Co. came into power, they have by laying pretty low. Hardly a word about Jose Padillia. Hardly a word about the NSA wiretapping. Shouldn't the ACLU be making higher-profile protests against these kinds of actions? Or is it they simply don't get in the press anymore?
There's really nothing offensive about it:
"Love the LORD."
"Love your neighbor as yourself."
"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
"Love your enemy."
"Never retaliate. Turn the other cheek."
"Always forgive."
"Return kindness in exchange for evil."
"Pray for your enemy."
"Don't judge one another."
"Don't condemn one another."
"Don't love money. Don't be a servant of money. A rich man cannot enter heaven."
"Help the poor."
"Be a good samaritan. Help those in need."
"Give to everyone who asks of you."
"Do not resist evil. Do not resist lawsuits."
"Keep the 10 Commandments."
"Refrain from incest."
"Refrain from homosexual conduct."
"Be honest in your business."
"The LORD helps those who pray."
"Faith can move mountains."
"Jesus raised the dead, healed the blind, healed leppers, fed thousands."
"Salvation and everlasting life come from accepting the sacrifice that the LORD made of His Son, Jesus Christ, on our behalf, on the cross, and that is confirmed by Christ's Ressurection and Ascention into Heaven."
Muslims also keep the 10 Commandemnts, or at least they are suppose to. Christians, Muslims and Jews account for 2/3's of the world's population.
There is much more to the Christian faith than keeping the 10 Commandments.
They are central to the faith, however, and I think it would be a better world if everyone were keeping them.
These are quoted from memory, and might not be perfect, but they are identical, in meaning. That doesn't mean I never sin, but it means I try not to sin:
(1) Have no other god than the LORD.
(2) Don't make any graven image or likeness of anything in the heavens above, in the earth beneath, or in the water beneath the earth. Don't worship them and don't serve them, for the LORD thy God is a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of those who break His Commandments unto three or four generations, but showing mercy unto thousands, those who keep His Commandments.
[Some churches have been routinely breaking this commandment for over a thousand years. The commandment forbits making, worshipping OR serving drawings OR carvings of things such as crucifixes, angels, the LORD (see cistine chapel), devils, or any other thing that groups into that category of "in heaven" "in the earth beneath" or "in the water under the earth".]
(3) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy. In six days, do your work, and do all of it, but let the 7th day be a day of rest. For the LORD thy God created the heaven and the earth and everything that is in them in six days, but on the seventh day, the LORD rested, whereupon the seventh day is blessed and hallowed. Neither you, nor your wife, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor the stranger within your gates shall do any work on the sabbath day.
[The sabbath is from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday. It never changed, it is the same for Christians, Muslims and Jews. See exodus 16, exodus 20 You are right that it is odd that the Church changed the day of worship from the sabbath to another day, but that doesn't change the sabbath, and it doesn't change the commandment.]
(4) Do not take the LORD's name in vain.
[Not in anger, profanity, or as conversational emphasis]
(5) Don't kill.
(6) Don't steal.
(7) Don't bear false witness against your neighbor.
[i.e. don't give false testimony]
(8) Don't commit adultery.
(9) Honor your father and your mother, so your days will be long on the land which the LORD giveth thee.
(10) Do not covet your neighbor's wife, his house, his servants, his ox or his ass, or any other thing that is your neighbor's.
Why should you worship the LORD? There's only one LORD, and you're either with Him or you're not. There are places where demon worship is accepted. Demons are really nasty things. If you want to worship demons instead of the LORD, I can't stop you; the LORD will reckon with you.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
"I wonder how much blood it would take to make you all beLIEve." - Godmachine, Acid Bath. Listen to it.
Congresscritter: No, the CIA may not use this scheme.
Spook: What about the FBL?
Congresscritter: Nope
Spook: NSA?
Congresscritter: Negatron.
Spook: What about Homeland Security?
Congresscritter: Oh, why didn't you say so in the first place? Approved!
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
US Citizens == Labrats
[start]
Onscreen: Sequence of stills of various battle scenes from the American War of Independence, War Between the States, First and Second World War.
Narrator: Political liberty was a necessary evil until the global marketplace arrived.
Onscreen: motion clips of arrivals at Ellis Island
Narrator: The global marketplace has now arrived.
Onscreen: quick sequence of stills of modern cities and office spaces fading to an elementary school classroom.
Teacher: Robert, name the planets of our solar system.
Pupil: Mercury, Venus, Singapore, Mars, Jupiter...
Teacher: Correct, Robert.
Narrator: Political liberty is now obsolete, so do yourself a favor. Shut up and chase the dollar, or something bad may happen to you...and your loved ones.
Onscreen: A young male with a 'non-commercial demeanor' outside his home. Same is accosted by four well-dressed sunglassed Anglo males.
Onscreen: fade to black.
(sound of silenced firearm and body thud)
Narrator: know your place; shut your face.
Onscreen: fade to [DHS logo]
[end]
Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
"Until the US creates a Constituional Amendment which defines a citizen's right to privacy"
Already taken care of in Amendment 4 in pretty plain language, ie: "secure in" = inviolable or private. Even IF this could be argued, Amendments 9 & 10 cover the rights to privacy via explicit reservation of all unenumerated rights. Our "public servants" just need to be taught to respect the constitution as it exists. I'm sorry but we can have endless writ specifying and confirming our rights, unless or until we hold those who would ignore and/or abuse these writs and the rights they define to serious consequence such writ is just "a goddamn piece of paper".
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Source: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Wabi-Sabi
Matthew
Not sure how you think my comment indicated a belief that you were talking about a partisan position. As I said, the system is broken and anyone who votes strictly based on a party is missing the boat. That includes both republicans and democrats. Your last statement pretty much indicates any career politician I've ever read about. The only people who are truly doing good work as politicians don't last as politicians.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
I'll disagree with that statement as well, considering I work with plenty of immigrants who never had to do anything more than I did, other than renounce their previous governments, to gain access to the same programs. Maybe that's not the norm, but I've been doing this for 20 years and never found anyone who had to do anything particularly out of the ordinary.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."