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Microsoft Says iPhone Is Irrelevant To Business
An anonymous reader writes "A Microsoft exec has turned attack dog, lashing out at Apple's iPhone by saying the device isn't good for business. Why? Because the iPhone is 'a closed device that you cannot install applications on.' Specifically, he's talking about Microsoft Office. 'While the entry of the iPhone (with its cut-down version of Mac OS X) into this market offers new options for consumers, Sorenson believes user familiarity with the Windows Mobile interface — and the ease with which companies can buy and develop applications for the platform — will sustain its increasing popularity and help keep the iPhone out of the lucrative corporate market.'"
Yeah, because I always use my telephone to write Word documents. You can bet that if Microsoft is trying to cut this down, it means a threat to Microsoft. And this early too -- the product does not even ship until June. How does Microsoft know what the iPhone can and cannot do?
It used to be "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA."
I guess now it should be:
"What's good for Microsoft is good for business."
DMCA - Chilling free speech since 1998.
Microsoft complaining about a company locking competitors out? that's rich...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
'course, a more likely explanation is that MSFT already has a cell phone OS biz they'd rather keep protected from such things as competition, no?
IOW: Nothing to see here, move along... :)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Irrelevant? No. Limited in its appeal to mobile corporate users? Yes. Without the ability to install custom apps on it, the chance that the iPhone will be a popular choice for mobile corporate users does seem pretty slim. That being said, I hardly think Apple cares, it's not their target market anyway.
And I haven't seen MS Office on the device. It runs Java, which is not Microsoft owned as well. Business is addicted to the things so much they are referred to as crackberries. The blackberry blackout was BIG news, so it seems to be prominent.
I think they are being a little delusional.
Scott Carr
"What's good for M&M enterprises is good for the country."
has ever edited a .doc on their phone ? Is there some secret sub-class of ubber biz user who works on biz docs on his phone ? I'm a geek and I've never even thought of it. Porn, well, ya. Work on that merger ? No.
...just how many iPods were sold to this "Lucrative Corporate Environment" compared to the, by comparison, non-Lucrative Public?
There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
So?
Apple doesn't target large business/enterprise markets. They never have. Their products are always marketed as tools for empowering individuals. If you didn't know better and could only guess from reviewing their advertising, you might think that businesses don't use personal computers. Often in these cases they behave more like a consumer electronics company rather than a PC maker.
Apple has never shipped HP or Dell level volumes and they've never seemed interested in trying. They get waiting lists for some of their products as it is.
Adding enterprise app accessibility would only introduce bugs, increase complexity, and reduce the overall user-friendlyness of the device, none of which would be Apple's fault (and I'm not even a fanboi). Besides, can anyone imagine Jobs up on stage at some show, introducing the latest email or ERP integration piece? No one drools over that kind of stuff.
It's clear that part of Apple's rep for simplicity is due to the avoidance of the products and systems that can't be made simple. Enterprise apps are necessary and useful, but their deployment and use are a clusterfuck and probably always will be. Apple can't change that, so why take the downside?
What would you rather sell? 1 iPhone to every business person, or 1 iPhone to 1 out of every 100 Mr. Joe Public? I would rather sell to the Joe Public market because of the sheer volume of sales. The target market of the iPhone is not to kill the blackberry - yet. It is to go after the market that the Razr has. And since it is essentially a pocket PC, if there is demand, then maybe other apps could be installed with later revisions.
Apple is not stupid, they did their market research for this thing and know exactly what features Joe Public wants, not what Mr. Jack Business or Mr. Slashdot Nerdling wants. They want to woo the Joe Publics, and I strongly suspect that they will.
I think MS is complaining because they know that the iPhone is going to destroy the Zune, and they have nothing to compete with it. Not only that, once enough Joe Public's get a hold of these things, there market for WinCE will be under fire - and then their market for Office on such devices. Apple is smart, they are picking their battles. They are not even trying to compete with the business market at this point. They are targeting a totally different segment, and MS is scared that they will win.
Think of the changes in the marketplace, if everyone owns an iPhone in the public space, and becomes accustomed to using OS X on their handheld... What sort of PC will Joe Public consider buying after using a OS X device? I suspect more iMac's will fly off the shelves after the iPhone becomes established. I think Microsoft is seriously afraid of losing the mobile market, the DRM/Music Market, and eventually the desktop market. And the iPhone is the device that will drive in that wedge.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Apple says Vista is irrelevant for business...
...compete you attack
Seriously, Apple are not in the traditional 'business' market - as in: the pinstripe suit brigade. They make XServes, and cool 8-core workstations, but these are mainly for the creative crowd doing video/audio editing.
The iPhone is targetted at the same demographic the iPod was - people with sufficient disposable income to purchase a premium product, and who care about the "spit-and-polish" that only Apple seem to apply liberally.
The "closed" nature seems to be a bit over-blown too. Just because jo(e)-random-nobody can't (well, as of now, can't) write personal apps doesn't mean Apple can't turn it into a platform if they *want* to...
$500 is a chunk of change, but it's hardly out of reach. That study of college-students pointed out that 25% of them (from memory) were considering getting one. If a college student can consider getting one, anyone can. Personally, as a college student, beer was more important than 'phones, but I accept that the world moves to a different beat these days... An iPod-induced beat, of course...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
What kind of weenie it going to try to edit PPT/Excel/Word documents on a Goddamn cell phone? And this is a killer shortcoming? It barely freaking works on a regular computer. Not running MS Office is a feature, not a bug.
Brett
Seriously, get a clue.
That exec has it pretty much spot on. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Because the type of people who'll buy the iPhone prefer form over function anyway.
With the increase of rich applications in the browser (AJAX etc.), the need to install binaries on a mobile decreases. If, as promised, the iPhone basically has the full build of Safari on it -- then this should be possible.
I'm no Mac fan boy, but realise with each passing year I use a web browser more, and stand-alone applications less. The iPhone fits with that trend.
I don't think he is correct -- or at least we don't know. I mean, textedit in OS X can view word docs, so it's pretty likely that functionality will be there. Apple's supposed to be working on a good spreadsheet app, and that will certainly open Excel docs, so it's possible that functionality will make it to the phone too. That might take a while though, who knows. Plus with a full browser, iPhone users can head over to Google Docs and Spreadsheets for that stuff, and soon that will have a Powerpoint replacement as well.
Thinkin' Lincoln - a web comic of presidential proportions
Maybe so, but is iPhone really targetting the corporate market, at least initially? Nothing I've seen has suggested that. Why say that your product is better than someone who isn't even targetting in the market you are referring to? Maybe because you've got no advantage over your real competition?
That exec has it pretty much spot on.
Sure he is... assuming your office only uses desktop-installed versions of MS Office software. But what if the iPhone had a full-capability web browser installed on it, and you used one of several web-based Office-like applications, and your company had web-based email & calendaring interfaces, and used IM for business communication as well?
Suddenly that non-business iPhone looks pretty darn business-capable. Microsoft has already stumbled several times in recent memory by dismissing the ability of these internet tubes to route around their monopolistic strategies... how many more of these mistakes can they afford to make?
Create? No-one. View? Quit a few.
I'm not flaming the post, as much as trying to give a bit of a different perspective.
Right now, the most productive (if you can consider addiction productive) communication device would probably be the crackberry. Most companies even shy away from issuing cell phones with cameras in them, nowadays... let alone a quasi-ipod that would probably tend to make people fiddle with it all day, rather than do work. Sometimes I'm skeptical of the same issue with blackberries, but you catch what I'm saying.
I think this is all a play of words. I haven't seen the whole conversation, but it would be interesting to see what all was said to lead up to that. I wouldn't put it past someone in MS to be arrogant, but it would still be interesting.
Though this post is subtle, it would be easy for anyone to pick something out of it if I worked with Microsoft.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Check out Apples' parody-tastic new product.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzBmHY3URWs
Didn't MS say the same thing about Linux? Seriously, didn't they?
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
Got a fact to back any of that up? Seen an iPhone? No, thought not. Just rumour and speculation then.
Go take a look at the ads for the iphone on Apple's site. Here's what you WON'T hear:
::touches picture of guy wearing a blue tie:: ::clicks picture of guy wearing red tie:: Hi Mike, I've got that spreadsheet you were waiting on.
MIKE: I need to call Chet ask him about that spreadsheet
CHET: My phone is ringing!
MIKE:Great, let's call Sue and look at the powerpoint!
CHET: As long as it has plenty of bar graphs!
See for yourself. Apple doesn't give a flying flip about the suit, at least not while they are at work. Their ads are filled with attractive youngsters talking about meeting up for bike riding and whitewater rafting! They don't CARE about the business market.
I had no problem using my PDA for writing. I would enter it as plain text, and then format it in MS Word when I got the big computer. The PDA was to keep contacts and appointments, and jot down drafts. I saw no one complaining that theri franklin planner was inadequate because it did not include a typewriter. Same thing.
I suspect the problem with the iPhone is that it is not going to fit in with the MS workcylce, specifically exchange. Of course blackberry is not a problem because I believe it does have an exchange component. Apple, OTOH, is just uses standard protocols, and does nothing special. Therefore, when the executives get their iPhones, which they will, it is conceivable that at some point MS will have to open up exchange. This means the MS should be scared because the iPhone is the thin end of the wedge. MS lucked out that the there were enough hacks to maintain the monopoly with the PDA threat, but they may not be so lucky with the phones. Just look at what the iPod is doing to the precious WMP formats.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
What they're really worried about is that the iPhone will integrate flawlessly with iCal and Address Book. While there are some 3rd party apps that try to do this, MS has nothing to offer cell phone users on this front. And it's actually pretty damn useful, as opposed to the 'not being able to install Word' bullshit.
Thank you, and goodnight.
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
...and their decision to make a "ZunePhone".
Industry analysts just figured out how much lipstick they'd have to put on this pig...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
With the iPhone, Apple is attempting to redefine parts of the mobile phone market, not take over certain segments of it. Sort of like throw something at the wall and see if it sticks. Every company does this. I think 10 million is a bit aggressive, but that's why I am a tech guy, not a marketer.
Microsoft can continue to enjoy the business cell market for a while. If the iPhone proves to be successful with the personal market, then SJ will get more leverage to strongarm more networks to accept the "apple way". Then Microsoft will have legitimate reason to worry.
And everybody I know absolutely hates their windows mobile device, be it a phone, pda, or personal computer. The network service is spotty (not Microsoft's fault) but combined with the shoddy OS for these devices, some days it's a freaking miracle they work at all. My MDA frequently won't get email, refuses to sync, and sometimes corrupts messages such that the sync spreads the corruption to outlook on the laptop.
And it's not just a geek thing. Every higher up type hates it and will admit so when asked. That's where the illusion is. These people are used to frustration with technology so they just accept it. Ergo, we don't hear it as often.
If I were a multi-billionaire, I would give nearly all of my wealth to Apple so they could form their own network service and do phone service right. I don't need much: a snappy, reliable phone and service would be worth it.
Microsoft, in its Windows Mobile platform, also gives carriers the ability to prevent users from installing applications that have not been approved by the carrier - just like Apple presumably will. See Windows Mobile 5.0 Application Security. This is why many T-Mobile users can't install third-party applications on their MDA/SDA devices without unlocking them, which is no trivial task.
The real solution here is to urge Congress and the FCC to force mobile phone carriers to allow users to purchase and connect any compatible equipment of their choice to the network - just like they did in the 1960s to Ma Bell.
The one issue with your argument is that you assume the iPhone will be closed. In reality, very few people outside of a certain fruit company in California know whether or not the iPhone will be closed-up or reasonably secure against outside development (like a.tv isin't). If the iPhone is open to developers, odds are VERY strong that we'll be using ObjC and Cocoa to develop for it. I've only heard things, but I've heard Cocoa is a very solid platform to develop things on (experienced OSX/*step developer's comments welcome).
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
PC - "Hold on, let me calculate how much time you've wasted by releasing the Iphone".
A few billion, at last count.
Please will all persons here that actually use MS Office on their PDA raise there hands please?
...
Anybody else?
Thank you sir, you may lower your hand.
--------
* Sigh *
how many more of these mistakes can they afford to make?
Unfortunately, it seems that they can afford to make a whole bunch more...
I just don't get the American (as in Continent) obsession with smartphones and being able to do office stuff on a mobile handheld device. Heck, this is not an obsession exlusive to business types, but average users who end up sub-utilizing it.
Whenever someone talks about the next big portable thing over here, I remember just how unrealistically cool are cel phones in Japan, with vibrant and very hi-def screens, generous storage, nice messaging capabilites... But very few Japanese use smartphones. And boy do they have to spend on them on their way back home.
1. If you have a need to view Powerpoint presentations on your mobile phone, Microsoft is right, the iPhone is not for you. I don't remember Apple claiming that it was ever anything but a consumer-oriented device to begin with.
2. Limited third-party support or not, the Sidekick family of phones is a tremendous success in its target demographics.
I am just adding fuel to the rumors, but I seem to recall hearing that the definition of "closed" that apple is using is very loose.
From what I remember reading (no links sorry), the iPhone will not support the installation of unsigned applications and plug-ins. However, everyone expects this to be simple to disable or override at the cost of invalidating your warranty.
Also there was some discussion that suggested that 3rd parties can request that their code be signed...
Apple just wants to prevent people from turning their iPhone into a spambot or worse, and they also want to keep support calls to a minimum.
I suspect that most Mac users, like myself, will not be inconvenienced by these restrictions in the least... in fact, unknowingly we will probably welcome them as they help ensure that our phone "just works" whenever we need to use it.
Besides... if the iPhone attracts as much interest as is expected... it'll be hacked in a week just like the AppleTV was.
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
Are you suggesting running a web-based AJAX office application on a phone instead of a native mobile application?
Why run something bloated when you can run something bloated on web page running off a web browser inside a tiny mobile phone... web office apps only make sense on actual PC's with solid connections.
Office Mobile is designed for MOBILE PHONES it is optimized for MOBILE PHONES- I couldn't imagine running web applications on a cell phone- that's so counter-intuitive. What would happen if you went through a tunnel on at rain or something? What if you were on a plane?
You need local office apps that play nice with your business infrastructure, so that they're always available and are not tied to a web connection. Microsoft is correct, here.
It doesn't even matter, because a it would be retarded for a business to give its employees something like an iPhone. It's designed for doing everything BUT working. Maybe if you're working for a magazine that writes movie, tv, or music reviews...
Even if it was JUST a phone and an iPod, it would still sell.
Why do so many ugly nerds want Apple to fail, isn't Apple PROOF that nerddom needn't be socially and aesthetically retarded?
They were talking like that about google too. Hmmm, actually it was worse. They were laughing etc and such. Apparently they have learned a little bit from their mistakes.
Read radical news here
Is overkill for a phone / pda anyway. So they dont have much room to speak on the design end of matters.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Yeah, Symbian and Palm (garnet) both have Office reading and writing programs so I would not be suprised if the iPhone got one.
Speaking of Symbian its far better than Windows Mobile is right now.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
But it's certainly useful to be able to read word and pdf documents when you are on the go. I've maybe done it once or twice, but it's been a huge timesaver.
A couple of years ago people were wondering why you'd ever want your email on a phone, now there's a large segment of the business market who couldn't live without it.
I think he's right, Windows CE is a good platform for business stuff and if the iPhone is modelled on the mac then it'll be a great platform for consumers.
The bad news for apple is that the business market for high end smartphones is probably larger than the consumer market.
It will appeal to a large numbers of consumers. Its an iPod on steriods, a very capable phone and a PDA.
I am loan officer and many of the top Loan Officers will buy the iPhone as soon as it comes out. Everyone in the Real Estate industry will be interested in this phone.
Kids will be able to consolidate their phone and iPod.
Geeks will be all over this thing.
Mac users finally get a superb phone that will integrate with their computer.
Looks like another game changer like the iPod.
-b
I'm not sure they haven't already past that point, it may be that the last mistake they could afford (and maintain their top-of-the-heap position) has already been made, and not caught up to them. One place that may have been is not staying out ahead of the OLPC. One thing that isn't often mentioned about the OLPC project (not the laptop itself, but the whole program) is that, included in it is one of the biggest ground-up rethink of usability, collaboration, security, and software and information distribution for what is, essentially, massive coordinated enterprises with common platforms.
Sure, the context is educational, but many of the issues being addressed aren't restricted to that context. If it is successful, there is going to be a lot that is applicable to the traditional, lucrative first-world enterprise market, and plenty of open-source code designed for Linux will be available for it. Potentially, it could provide the killer application that stops the question about Linux adoption from being how Linux can ape Windows features, and instead provides a compelling reason for enterprises to jump to Linux.
of course the iPhone is irrelevant to business! Why would apple want to enter that market? It isn't any fun! Let me calculated how much time I just wasted reading this story...
I am familiar with Windows Mobile interface and that's exactly why I'm drooling over iPhone.
that it had no value to business and that they wouldn't develop their own web browser. Then they saw how companies started to make money on the Internet and how popular Netscape had become, and how it posed a threat to their business model. So they developed Internet Explorer and Front Page as a web browser and a web page creator.
Microsoft laughs at the iPhone now, but how long before Microsoft has the zPhone (Zune Phone) to complete with it?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
The iPhone is *irrelevant* for business. It's not a business device. You won't get an iPhone for business or, really, for any practical reason at all. Anyone who actually needs anything in the iPhone's feature list beyond actually making phone calls has already got a gadget that does whatever it is better than the iPhone ever will. Including being a music player (in which case that device is likely to be an iPod). And if that device isn't a phone, it's almost certainly better off for not being a phone - simply because even the optimistic estimates of bettery life Apple's listing on their website are profoundly unexciting (even the iPod shuffle beats them), and rumor has it that they're profoundly optimistic as well.
Apple's market is the same as the market for things like the Motorola RAZR. I'm sure it will be sell well just from the cool factor, no matter how impractical it is.
Speaking as someone who uses Linux and Windos and just bought his first Mac last month, I use Eclipse with ease on my Mac. As far as ease of developing applications, I just found a cool set of developer tools called Xcode that LITERALLY lets you drag and drop most aspects of the GUI and then connect them up visually. And tweaking the code is a piece of cake. Honestly, the development environment for developing applications for the Mac is far easier than anything else I have ever seen. You still have to understand MVC and OOP to be able to build a decent applicatiion but anyone can be able to throw together widgets or a simple GUI app in seconds. I'd suggest anyone with a Mac laptop to install Xcode from their install disk and check out 'The Mac Xcode2 Boook' to get them started. Very quick, very easy and you'll be building GUI's after just a couple minutes of reading... no joke.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
During the iPhone prototype presentation, Steve Jobs talked about IMAP and his partnership with Yahoo. Add iSync and OS X calendar app to the mix and there we have an alternative the the core of what Exchange does for a lot of businesses. I'm all for that.
I'd like to suggest an axiom for writers:
Ask a company about its competition, and they will trash the competition.
Let's get serious here... asking Microsoft what it thinks of its competition? Such an interview has no value. The response will always be negative. Ask Microsoft about any of its competition, and the response will always be the same.
... it means they are afraid of it.
that's because it's all speculation. I and many others will be quite annoyed at the idea of a $600 portable locked kiosk, but it's not entirely clear what will and won't be allowed, so there's no point in getting worked up about it until we know for sure.
If the phone comes out and the only limitation is that non-Apple or non-signed apps run in some kind of a sandbox, that might well be the perfect setup from a security standpoint. It might also make the whole thing completely useless for anything other than showing pictures of your cat. It's all in the implementation, and for all their faults Apple usually focuses quite a bit on implementation so people do tend to give them benefit of the doubt until we have the device in our hands.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
This is fud.. Microsoft has not even seen the iPhone so they don't know WHAT it can do.
;-)
Take my word for it.. due to my job.. I get one first once they put out the test models.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear. Fear and surprise. Our two weapons are fear and surprise... and ruthless efficiency... Our three weapons are surprise, fear, ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to Bill Gates... Our four weapons... no, amongst our weapons... amongst our weaponry are such elements as fear, surprise... I'll come in again.
What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
Apple's decision to close the iPhone is a bad, bad move.
I believe this is, in part, addressed by Barry Schwartz in his talk on "The Paradox of Choice".
It integrates so well with my Mac!
I don't believe Apple has stated whether or not the iPhone would work with Windows.
That one bug in the email sure is annoying. Too bad I can't try a different email app.
Good thing all the email apps available for Windows Mobile don't have any bugs.
I wish this thing played videos.
I believe the iPhone will play any video content currently playable on current G5 iPods.
Will this thing ever support Flash?
Who knows. Apple hasn't said one way or the other. It does integrate very nicely with Google maps though.
I contacted Apple for the 4th time about my need for PowerPoint support.
Do you honestly watch Powerpoint presentations on your cell phone? Egads, man!
I'm so tired of them ignoring me.
This point is just flat out stupid, illogical, blah blah blah as the device hasn't even been released. Apple has consistently been rated as one of the best tech companies for customer support.
http://www.bynarystudio.com
Etch-a-sketch is better than Windows Mobile
Because Microsoft mobile is the best thing since Windows ME! And you should always speak in absolutes that this will NEVER be open on the iphone, Apple has made many many dumb choices in the past but I doubt they will not open up for 3rd party apps esp with the demand for stuff like this, and apple being so pro customization...
---In a time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.
Microsoft shows their yellow side yet again. They wait until Fake Steve Jobs is gone on a hunting retreat for the weekend before attacking the iPhone. Everyone knows that FSJ would rip them a frigging Zune-sized you-know-what the moment he saw this red meat. Ballmer throwing chairs is no match for FSJ on even an average day.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
http://www.apple.com/itpro/
Here's just some of their headlines from the news box:
Apple Takes on Exchange Server
Apple's Open Calendar Server vs. Microsoft Exchange
Xserve Review
Apple's Xserve Gives an Enterprise Alternative
http://www.apple.com/itpro/solutions.html
Need Help Configuring Apple Solutions?
Contact Apple Consulting Services for comprehensive onsite consulting and enterprise-oriented services.
One of Apple's big enterprise selling points always has been interoperability with MS & UNIX products.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
In the Microsoft playbook: say device is beneath your worry;
Step 2: Attack device as imminent failure;
Step 3: Watch as device becomes success;
Step 4: Purchase company which produces device. If this is not possible;
Step 5: Release half-assed version of device which fails on all levels except hype.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Any reports on how many chairs were flying by during the interview? I'm guessing about 3 chairs a minute on average. So in a 35 minute interview we're looking at flung furniture in the low hundred or so. But I'm only guessing. What's the scoop?
Slideshows, maybe. Just imagine trying to edit some footnote-heavy document with multiple changes marked on a device the sizes of a phone, with a little stylus. Unless Microsoft has either (1) a direct neural interface, so you can see the document, or (2) thinks the entire world is going to adopt Word Cuneiform edition, then they're smoking a worse grade than normal.
Someone needs to hold an intervention in Redmond. Repeat after me, "not everything, and this includes phones and toasters, needs to run Office". "People do not salivate over the next time they get to fire up Office". "The people that do are probably all sitting within three feet of your desk, Steve".
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
Maybe other smartphones are better, but viewing any office documents on my BB 8700 sucks badly enough that I wait to get to a computer. I doubt anyone has a strong desire to work with office docs on any phone. No matter how you cut it, it's small and inconvenient. Everyone knows this, and nobody really expects anyone to view an office doc on the road and view/edit it instantly. If they need a quick response, put it into an email or just call.
Ung.. office on a phone makes me shiver... mobile webapps, please! Build something for the screen your working with, and to hell with scrunching documents formatted for a 21" display or sheet a paper into a phone size hack. Even if you intend to use office docs solely for personal use (say a typical personal expense tracking spreadsheet many people have), how fscking useful is a spreadsheet with only four legible columns??? Short of a purpose built application or a mobile formated webapp, I have everything I need... MemoPad...
General purpose office apps are dead on phones, and probably on desktops in the not too distant future.
The PC wasn't for the corporate market either when it came out. It was considered and ment to be a toy.
Apple is together with Google in offering Google Maps on the iPhone. I clearly remember the impressive presentation of that specific feature. It's bound to move toward a killer application for those offering Navigation systems. And before you can say 'MS Office sucks' we're likely to have Google Apps on mobile devices. And they definitely are a competion to anything MS in the mobile area.
Do you people still remember Ami Pro, Lotus 123 and Windows 3.1? That was all we needed back then and with the browser apps we get exactly that. On top of a bazillion layers running them on a performance hog called JavaScript. But it's all we need. With phones running 500Mhz CPUs and Full Scale Browsers stripped down versions of expensive proprietary shrinkwrap applications are getting more harder to sell by the minute. And MS is feeling that right now.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
re:"As a business, i wouldn't purchase a product with that great of a changeover if i could avoid it."
So I'm guessing you don't use computers then. I heard those have some NASTY changeover!
In other news, Dell announced they're going to offer XP again for everyone because the Vista changeover is causing holy horror with the Windows community. So in that regards, I can see why you'd fear change. I'd say I could empathise, but I can't. Lord knows I can't.
You've got a good point that the AJAX-y experience wouldn't be optimal on a web browser inside a cell phone. It'd be pretty crappy... but then again attempting to do most business-related things on a cell phone-based application is typically a last resort, so I still think there is some applicability here.
I have a Palm 700p as my main cell phone. While I don't use the Office-compatible apps too often, but it's handy in rare instances. For instance, a client emails me a Word document detailing changes to a contract... it's great to be able to open the document on my phone, read it, then email or call them to discuss. That scenario is within the realm of the possibility of a web-based AJAX app, even on a mobile phone, isn't it?
I admit I've never used the genuine Office Mobile apps. But neither of us has seen how well the browser on the iPhone (or the keyboard, for that matter) work. If it's as good as the hype (well, at least close), it may be able to bridge the gap. Should be interesting to see....
Will this thing ever support Flash?
.ppt files just fine. Enough better than PowerPoint itself that I use it to recover corrupt presentations. So the ability to view PowerPoint slides is not out of reach for the iPhone. Incidentally, while Apple is (by a standard my employer will insist on) no longer a client for me, I have no compunctions about saying that Keynote blows PowerPoint completely out of the water in every possible respect.
Who knows. Apple hasn't said one way or the other. It does integrate very nicely with Google maps though.
Apple hasn't had to say anything, QuickTime supports Flash (through version 7 or so) so the iPhone will run Flash apps. The downside is QT is usually one version behind the mainstream Flash release.
Do you honestly watch Powerpoint presentations on your cell phone? Egads, man!
Well, good point. But Apple has this little program called Keynote that reads & writes
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
Rich applications in the browser, with voice recognition done by the phone itself. I'm a genius, really I am. Proof^H^H^H^H^HTechnical details left to the underlings.
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
With a market cap of $284.17 Billion, and approx. $49 Billion in assets [1], I'd say quite a few.
[1] http://finance.google.com/finance?q=MSFT
The iPhone integrated office suite doesn't even have to be good. It just has to suck slightly less than Office does. Apple gets their claws into you. They got the kids and an ever-growing number of adults with the iPod. The iPhone will subvert the CEOs and upper managers who currently force me to use Microsoft's crappy software at work. People will buy them because they're shiny. Then they'll say something like "Wow... this is actually an incredibly easy-to-use device! Maybe I'll check out an Apple computer..." Next thing you know, everyone in the family has one.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Lack of Office isn't what will keep the iPhone from appealing to corporate customers. It is the lack of ActiveSync support. If it had ActiveSync (which is available on Palm Treo 650 phones or better in addition to Windows Mobile devices), I would be all over it. Exchange connectivity via ActiveSync is essetial in the Enterprise market.
*** Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams of Which Stuff is Made ***
Well, not really. Within a given corporation that's sometimes the case, but the interfaces between companies tend to be... phone messages, plain text emails, increasingly SMS text messages, and PDF documents. The iPhone will probably run my business just fine, and I intend to try it, advice to the contrary from Microsoft notwithstanding.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
The reason you don't see much criticism of the iPhone on Slashdot is because it isn't out yet. Seriously, why does a person like yourself have to waste energy making shit up about it?
That one bug in the email sure is annoying. Too bad I can't try a different email app.
You're arguing that a hypothetical bug in an unreleased product makes Windows Mobile better?
I wish this thing played videos.
Uh, it does. Standard MPEG-4/h.264.
Will this thing ever support Flash?
Nobody in any position to know has said that it wouldn't, so again you're pulling out a strawman.
I contacted Apple for the 4th time about my need for PowerPoint support.
PowerPoint is a Microsoft product. Complaining to Apple would get you nowhere. Even if iPhone was completely open there's no reason to think that it would have PowerPoint support. If it were truly necessary to view presentations on your phone (who does this?), any decent presentation software is capable of exporting to standard formats such as PDF, which the iPhone supports.
Windows Mobile can do everything I need this iPhone to do and an MDA is $300 instead of $600.
Most people consider this before buying. I don't understand why you are so mystified by it. The MDA might be fine if you don't care at all about media playback features or web browsing or Mac integration. Not everyone does. Some people care more about PowerPoint presentations, and they have a world of other phones to choose from. They're different.
If you don't believe me, look at the Hiptop/Sidekick - http://hiptop.com/forums/ A bunch of Apple employees left and made that platform which is mostly closed.
I know you're trying to make it sound like Danger, Inc. and Apple are somehow closely related, but the facts don't follow. "A bunch of Apple employees"? One of the founders had come from Apple. Oh, and Steve Wozniak is on the board. Whoopty shit. Furthermore, you've not actually given any evidence to support your claim that "every long-time user is tired of the same old lackings".
The iPhone will be more locked-down and WORSE than that.
Says who? All Apple has said is that it isn't an open platform. In all probability, Apple will operate the same way Danger does, by screening third-party software submitted to them, and selling through their store. iPhone has already been demonstrated as syncing with iTunes, and iTunes already distributes applications in the form of iPod games. It is no more closed that the Sidekick.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
The iPhone is an ultra-slick high end consumer device. I don't think BMW worries too much about fleet sales of 500-series sedans, either. Yes, Apple is missing a huge market by going in that direction, and perhaps they're also missing the market best suited to paying $500 for a phone, but they're still going to sell a ton of them and make a mint doing it.
Says it all.
I'd like the iPhone to be an open platform, especially since I'll probably buy one. Even if it was, I just can't see it being an "enterprise" device. Apple's not that company, no matter how much they'd like you to buy an Xserve.
Game... blouses.
Since email is still ther killer app, MS's analysis is skewed. Yeah they're selling more PPC devices, but it mainly for email. Also consider the hearsay that everyone has a problem with their PPC smartphone.
I actually want some of the phone features on my desktop; it would be great to have a graphical interface for VM and incoming calls. I know you get this with Skype, but it would be great if the features were available for a corporate PBX and VM system.
Irrelevant to Microsoft's business? - no
I recall reading a few years back that if Microsoft revenue stopped cold they could continue operating at their present rate of expenditure for over 20 years, based on their cash reserves. This isn't their final chance to be wrong by any stretch.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
So what MS is basically saying is that the iPhone is just going to be wanted by the guy on the right, and the chap in the suit on the left will want to do the "serious" stuff.
Its really scary when MS look at the Apple ads and think "you know what, they are completely right, fun is frivolous and has no part in our strategy"
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
That the instability of the Windows Mobile platform will keep it out of the lucrative business sector, with the Blackberry picking up the majority of the users.
The iPhone has WiFi support. It will drive the demand for WiFi installations, to the detriment of the cell carriers' data plans. People will stick to low-bandwidth demands when on the slow EDGE connection, and save their bandwidth-intensive usage for when WiFi is available. This will be the case until faster, cheaper services are available from GSM cell carriers.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Apple isn't after the business market by design, and Microsoft knows this. But it's likely MS has conducted research, and they can see that the iPhone has even attracted the attention of the high-end market that uses MS mobile applications on "smart" phones - a market that isn't as locked in as the desktop users. They likely don't want any of that base to defect, and this is done by jumping up and down about the importance of Office (even though it isn't as important in a mobile setting).
It's a preemptive move to hold what they've got.
I'll bet it will run Vim
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
One weekend with a Windows Mobile device was more than enough, to again affirm, how poorly a UI can be done. The $30 restocking fee still ranks amongst the best expenses I have incurred...
I love Apple, and hate Microsoft, but IMHO, the iPhone has two big failings.
1. No unsigned apps is a big one. This is really a damn shame, and limits the iPhone to a certain crowd (fashion-conscious blackberry users and Apple devotees).
2. EDGE?! EDGE sucks. The latency is beyond terrible. Now that Cingular has UMTS, Sprint/Verizion have EVDO, and even T-mobile is going 3G, why would ANYONE consider a "nextgen" phone to be an EDGE-only phone. This is a *terrible* decision. As much as I love Apple, I would *never* trade in an EVDO capable PDA for an EDGE one; even if you paid me to take the EDGE one. EVDO (or any low-lataency 3G) changes the way you access the internet while mobile. With EDGE, you putter around slowly, and you don't use an EDGE device while driving about 50 mph, or riding the train. With EVDO, you're always online.
As far as I'm concerned, #2 is damning. Especially now that Sprints super-cheapo SERO plans are avaliable to anyone in the know, there is no reason whatsoever to go with some crappy overpriced EDGE device, even if the UI is Nirvana (and given that its a first generation product, I'm skeptical). Don't look at the bandwidth numbers and think that your EDGE device is similar to a dialup; its not. It's more like a low bandwidth satellite connection, with roundtrip latencies approaching 2-3 seconds while the connection is maxed out (and given that its 128 kbps, thats not hard). EVDO, UMTS, and other 3G technologies blow the doors off this; both Sprint and Verizon sell PDAs and Phones that give you live streaming video, even from things like ORB and Slingbox.
Don't go with EDGE. It sucks. I worked with an EDGE phone for a long time, and now that I've got EVDO (particularly Rev A) I would never, ever go back. Even at twice the price.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
You'd be surprised at how many people want this. All you need to do is visit a non-WMx forum (blackberryforums.com springs to mind) to see that a LOT of people want this.
Personally, I'd rather do Word on a laptop or something possibly slightly smaller, but there is definitely a market for it on cell phones.
Now who is it that is eating her consort(s)?
What a load of delusional bullshit. The day you start navigating your calendar via AJAX on a phone using a clit scroller instead of a real local app is the day you'll be buying a hovercar.
Are you kidding?
Japan, the land of highspeed mobile broadband is going to go gaga over a phone that can't stream video, can't do video calls, and has abysmal bandwidth capabilities?
Not to mention that the iPhone is a Cingular exclusive for a year or two (can't remember).
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Honestly, have you actually tried it?
I'm not even talking about non WMx phones (try to edit even the simplest document or spreadsheet and watch your phone go into reboot hell).
As someone who used to look at the data from NPD in Apple's categories, they were #1 in laptops and 3rd-5th in volume depending on the month.
However, the way the stats are reported are normally strongly biased towards microsoft by lumping _all_ microsoft-based laptops/pc's from dell/hp/whatever together to create the illusion of a "tiny" mac market.
So, you've got apple holding their own at higher price points and the rest of them fighting each other over practically identical products.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
What did the ipod change? It was marketed exceedingly well(and hit the market about when it needed to), but I'm not real sure it moved any particular bar any which way.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Let's say M$ is correct that the iPhone is irrelevant to business (in much the same way that the Mac is almost non-existent in corporations). WHO CARES!!!! Apple seems to be doing just fine as a company with a small piece of the market. If I were M$ I would not even acknowledge a smaller company. Either they are truly scared or extremely stupid. There is room for multiple players in this market.
Apparently you have never tried to use Google Docs on Safari.
70% of statistics are made up.
No one will ever need more than 64ok for a computer - Bill Gates Man will never accomplished power filight - one of the wright brothers Monoploy has 32 reasons it will not sell - Parker Brothers What a nifty device who will ever use it - An American President describing the telephone Man will never land on the moon - NEW YORK TIMES (1920's) Flying faster than the speed of sound is impossible - Various Scientists and many others. Yes I did paraphrase a few of these
A guy who, like, works for some company bad mouthed the product of, like, a competing company?
The deuce you say! In corporate America? Bah!
I don't see it as a "money" thing though. I can't count the amount of time I have lost trying to make my Razr do things I want it to. Sometimes I get billed out at $250 an hour (but usually $90-$120/hr). And if you factor in how much I am charged out at per hour, and then you factor in the hours I have wasted with the Razer, it does not seem expensive to me at all.
My time is worth money to me. If I can buy a device that just works, and I don't have to spend time "fiddling" with it, then that is actually more valuable to me. In fact, it represents a savings. I always look at the Opportunity Cost. Just because something is inexpensive does not mean that it is inexpensive to use. On a per-hour basis the iPhone is actually less expensive for me to use than the Razr - if it works as well as Job's keynote.
That, and you know the price will drop, and the features will rise.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
I don't see how one can say that this is going to replace office or parts of office
It's freaking phone. Having full office on it is totally useless. Are you going to edit a 230x40000 Excel sheet on the iPhone?
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
web office apps only make sense on actual PC's with solid connections.
How did you manage to miss all the hoopla about offline app support in Firefox 3.0? And guess what, someone might even create a web app that is targeted at mobile devices.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Only if apple signs it. :-( And honestly, can you see them signing vim?
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
How did you manage to miss all the hoopla about offline app support in Firefox 3.0? Because I have a job. A job that doesn't involve web development. Also, I'm not really a F/OSS enthusiast... at all. And guess what, someone might even create a web app that is targeted at mobile devices. An office suite? I'd like to see it. Google docs runs like crap on my old win98-era PC, I'd really like to see them make an office web app run well on a tiny little machine like the iPhone. Wait... why are we not using local applications that take advantage of the platform's little power? Is it so we can 'hack' the iPhone to make it useful?
I have a better idea. Just buy something useful- that's meant to be productive... it might not even cost over half a grand.
It's a fucking phone. You are not going to need a full office suit on it.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
using ObjC and Cocoa to develop for it... I've heard Cocoa is a very solid platform to develop things on
I like to develop using C based languages too... but I like it with coffee... nothing against chocolate...
*ducks*
. o O ( TwO hEaDs ArE mOrE tHaN oNe... )
I might need to edit a powerpoint presentation or a word document or something- hell, there's all sorts of random business situations that arise during travel that your company might like you to address. They don't give you a phone so you can be more social, after all.
Doesn't this just make Microsoft right about this little statement? They never said the iPhone was bad or wrong- just that it was irrelevant to business. It's a consumer-market device. It's just plain true. Deal with it!
The iPhone has KHTML, and that's powerful enough to display Google Docs. So, it can load, display, and edit Microsoft Office files.
From the mouth of Jobs himself:
"Java's not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It's this big heavyweight ball and chain."
The iPhone will not run Java.
And Microsoft wants you to never forget what they did, for a while. Now?
-Abandoned the hackish but oh-so-popular visual basic.
-Abandoned Visual Studio backward compatibility
-Plays For Sure?????
I could go on an on, but this is 1995
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Give it 3 or 4 revisions. By then Apple will have worked out a way to allow anyone to develop and install apps on the iPhone with a minimum of fuss, much as with the iPod's initial platform, software, and other feature limitations. The first Windows iPod was the 2G. The first one with iTunes for Windows was the 3G. It took until 5G to add color screens and 6G for video.
I'm betting that things will be added to the iPhone as time progresses. My predictions:
- A Dashcode (widget development IDE) preset midway through the 1G lifespan.
- An Xcode plugin set in time for the release of the 2G iPhone, and official blessing on iPhone apps.
Why oh why do you need OSuX on it then?
Really? You don't remeber the first hard drive mp3 players? The Creative Nomad was the best thing out there, and it was awful (back in the good old usb 1.1 days). The reality is that apple saw an opportunity to make one of the first good HD based mp3 players. It's entirely possible that they see a similar kind of opportunity with the iPhone.
IMO there has not been a good fully convergent device. There have been decent phone/mp3 devices. And RIM has had the phone/email market locked up for a while now. Even though they are marketed as being fully convergent phone/email/mp3 devices, the MS devices are just and excercise in mediocrety, and people put up with them because it's their only option. Apple sees an opportunity to define the consumer oriented convergence device market, it should provide a good quality phone/mp3/email device and it also claims to provide a uniquely high quality internet experience.
If the iPhone is half as successful as apple hopes it will be it will at least raise the bar for the rest of us. And I do own a pearl and I do love it for what it is (email/phone and crappy internet). I recongize it's limitations and could easily list dozens of things it could do better. Hopefully competition from Apple (or anyone else for that matter) will improve things.
Fear trumps hope and ignorance trumps both
I Agree, I have a mini key chain etch a sketch. It does crash a lot, but less often then windows mobile. Rebooting is quick and easy, just turn it upside down and shake. Unfortunately it doesn't have the ability to save or load files, but I doubt anyone would ever need or use those features.
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
There is absolutely no handheld application that can beat a real Web browser. The iPhone has one, and other handhelds don't.
With Windows Mobile you pay for and then install and maintain a mini MS Office suite like you are a Windows 3.1 user. With iPhone you just go to Google and run their office suite over the Web, no install, no maintenance, and you can also use Yahoo Office or whatever else comes down the Internet tubes in the future.
WebKit is like Firefox with great typography and text-shadow. Many Windows users are going to hold their iPhone up to their PC screen and ask themselves why the Web looks so much better on their phone than in Internet Explorer.
Another nice thing with iPhone is that if your CEO has one he is going to want the corporate Web site to be W3C compatible instead of Microsoft compatible. The iPhone makes the case for the cross-platform post-PC World Wide Web.
"You're arguing that a hypothetical bug in an unreleased product makes Windows Mobile better?"
You're arguing that lack of choice is a good thing?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft is about to get their ass handed to them again and they know it. Consumer device or not, gimmick or not, the iPhone is already having a huge impact on the moble market - AND IT'S NOT EVEN OUT YET!!!
Next up: "One time software giant Microsoft files suit against Apple, Inc. for monopolizing the mobile business device market"... well, it wouldn't be the first time someone snatched the pretzels out of Ballmer's mouth.
ewwww... I just grossed myself out.
Most of the stuff on
you obviously don't work in the business world- w/o the ability to hook to an exchange server and view OLE embedded docs the iphone is completely useless for business use- esp. in a secure environment where you cannot allow a web interface for document transfer- such as the legal field in which I work
Have anybody ever tried developping software for Windows Mobile 5? It's fracking simple. It took me about four hours from scratch to develop a custom made gps software for my WM5 PDA with c#.
Microsoft knows how valuable good development tools are. That's about the only thing they have done right (in my opinion).
Yes, the iPhone is definitely irrelevant for M$'s business, because one cannot install msOffice on it. But it doesn't matter, because the type of people who'll buy it don't care much about M$'s business, they care about their own.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
> If you have a need to view Powerpoint presentations on your mobile phone, Microsoft is right, the iPhone is not for you.
The iPhone is also an iPod. If you have the need to VIEW any kind of screen-based media then the iPhone is definitely for you. It is painless to hook it up to a TV also just like an iPod. It will crash much less than your Windows laptop when giving a presentation.
There will be a PowerPoint Quick Look plug-in for OS X Leopard also if there isn't one already. In that case, you can open a PowerPoint presentation for viewing without converting it to something standard. PowerPoint on the Mac can output directly to an MPEG-4 movie that is iPod-ready also.
The key with the iPhone is it will be more versatile than other phones, and it will be much easier to use than other phones, so whether you are in business or whatever you're doing, many people will apply iPhone in a productive way.
From what I read it seems like the "closed" part is that you can't install applications directly onto the iPhone ... instead they get on your iPhone through iTunes, same as audio and video and firmware updates and contacts and photos and iPod games.
... everything on the iPod is just a cache for iTunes. It is not surprising that they're going to continue to do the same thing with iPhone. You will actually just customize your iTunes further as usual and some stuff from there will go on your iPhone, as usual. The greater capabilities of the iPhone hint at bigger apps than what's on iPods today but that system is in place and iPhone can certainly run Cocoa.
When you plug an iPod or iPhone into iTunes it is like you go into maintenance mode, you pull into a pit stop. There are like 100 hidden advantages that Apple is taking out of that system. For example, if you lose your iPod or it dies completely you can get another one and plug it into your iTunes and sync and you are back to exactly where you were
At one point there was an Xcode update that had an "Intel" check box in it, that was all you had to do to build your app for Intel as well as PowerPC. It wouldn't be surprising to see an "iPhone" checkbox show up there and some UI facilities so you can build your Cocoa app for Intel, PowerPC, and iPhone in one go. Maybe they'll release that as soon as WWDC. Certainly I would expect more information about iPhone application development at this year's WWDC.
I'd buy it because it can't run Microsoft OfficeBloat 2007. I've uninstalled that program TWICE now... know what I use? Wordpad.
I guess that explains why they dumped Wordpad from Vista.
Wordpad: MS Office's worst enemy.
Why not, they already ship it in the OS, might be there under the hood somewhere.
I always wondered where this setting was...
> I contacted Apple for the 4th time about my need for PowerPoint support.
... it is WebKit (HTML, CSS, and JavaScript) and the always-on Wi-Fi "n" and cell network connection.
This feature has already been announced in OS X Leopard as far back as last June.
I'm sure Apple would appreciate it if you would wait until you actually get your iPhone to complain about what's not in there.
> That one bug in the email sure is annoying. Too bad I can't try a different email app.
You can use any Web-based email, there is a full-scale desktop-class Web browser in iPhone.
> It integrates so well with my Mac!
The iPhone integrates with iTunes just like an iPod. Use either Mac or Windows, that has already been announced.
> Apple's decision to close the iPhone is a bad, bad move.
It runs Web apps, therefore even if there is no way to install native software, the user will have billions of applications.
In other words, the Cocoa API is not the most important iPhone API
Right now most mobiles are offering the personal computer application experience from pre-1995: you install a 31 kb application that manages memory so that you can install an 81 kb game. Think about it.
Look in your book of common wisdom - right there in chapter one it says "Companies say bad things about their competition." Nothing to see here.
If someone at Microsoft said that Apple's new product was great and they wish they had such a fine product - that would be news. This isn't news.
> Apple hasn't had to say anything, QuickTime supports Flash (through version 7 or so) so the iPhone will run Flash apps.
> The downside is QT is usually one version behind the mainstream Flash release.
No, I don't think this is true. I don't think you can say that the iPhone runs QuickTime per se. It is more likely that there is an H.264 decoder in there and an AAC decoder like in an iPod.
There are various ways Apple could go with this, but I would be surprised if iPhone supports Flash. I would be extremely surprised if they support Flash video such as YouTube. Purely for technical reasons.
> I have no compunctions about saying that Keynote blows PowerPoint completely out of the water in every possible respect.
When people refer to An Inconvenient Truth as a "PowerPoint presentation" that is a laugh because PowerPoint cannot do graphics of that size or quality. Those are not 800x600 256-color PowerPoint slides in that movie.
>> "You're arguing that a hypothetical bug in an unreleased product makes Windows Mobile better?"
> You're arguing that lack of choice is a good thing?
Where is the lack of choice?
Out of the box, you can run Gmail on your iPhone, you can run Yahoo mail, you can run Hotmail, you can run the Webmail from your Web hosting company, you can run whatever email you want. It has a full-scale, desktop-class, Web applications spec Web browser with the equivalent features of Firefox but with better typography.
On Windows Mobile you can choose from a handful of apps that are made with the same MS dev tools on the same MS operating system, often using MS "standards" and they cost money and you have to update them and authorize them and you also have to make sure to get the right app for the particular hardware/software combination you are using (e.g. do you have a touch screen?) it is like Windows 3.1 in there.
The thing with iPhone is that it has 21st century computing features in there almost for free along with the phone and iPod that people will actually buy the iPhone for. The parts of the iPhone that could be said to be stolen from the Mac are basically extras in "the iPod phone". It is not even primarily a handheld computer. On Windows Mobile you are paying good money for a 1993 computing experience and Microsoft's famous QA. It is not even a fair fight.
"One hundred and forty phone models already run Microsoft's Windows Mobile operating system..."
Now that's the most abusive utilization of the term "run" that I have ever seen.
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you
> That one bug in the email sure is annoying. Too bad I can't try a different email app.
You're arguing that a hypothetical bug in an unreleased product makes Windows Mobile better?
No, he's arguing that a closed platform is (all other things being equal, which we have no reason not to believe, seeing as the device hasn't been released yet) naturally inferior to a more open one. Obviously, Windows Mobile isn't as open as you can get, but more open platforms are lagging behind in development, so aren't equal.
That would be accurate, if not for the fact that on a EDGE (!) phone, AJAX and other Browser apps, take forever to load. Just mentioning. /still regrets no 3G on Iphone
I take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
'' Why run a web-app on a meager embedded system? Why not just run applications that are designed around the system's form and constraints and use minimal overhead? ''
Who says the iPhone is a "meager embedded system"? Dual ARM processors, each in my experience about as powerful as an 800 MHz P4, 8 GB harddisk space including about half a GB for the OS, running the worlds leading OS. That is not "meager".
The web app thing was just an example. Geez. Who, except MS, says it won't have local apps to edit ppt and doc? It just won't have Office, big deal.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
??? OSX sole reason to exist is running Office?
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
The bottom line is (as others have said): if the core stripped down OSX has been set up effectively ... the created widgets will be enough to do whatever we need to do on a phone.
...
Closed system but with widget add-ons.
Heck, Mobile Office apps should be consider sub-standard (read: bollox) widgets themselves, because that is my experience of them
If Apple had their own office suite, they could take that code and trim it down to run on the iPhone. It might exist as a document viewer only but that's what people mostly use mobile Office apps for anyway.
... gotta do that presentation in Keynote too. I wonder if iTunes has any new podcasts available for me?
Sadly I guess that's not an option. Even if it was they'd need to have some form of distribution mechanism whereby people could just buy the product online and have it synced to their iPhone with no hassle.
Anyway, back to writing this document in Pages
My guess is that they have accidentally hit on the strategy for the iPhone, actually. The smartphone market is huge right now, with three major players in RIM (Blackberry), Palm (Treo), and MS (PocketPC)-- all of which are focusing on, and succeeding in, the business market. Probably the best way for Apple to get a footing in the SmartPhone market is to introduce a device that can create consumer demand for smartphones. Apple is known for creating new markets for existing device categories, after all.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
Actually the second Microsoft loses its monopoly status it will die. It might take 20 years after it loses its monopoly, but it will die. There is NO reason to go with Microsoft applications except they have a monopoly. If they ever lose it, they're a goner.
Two weeks after I got my HTC Tytn I heard about the iPhone, and much sadness covered the earth. After 5 generations, Windows on a phone is still unbelievably crap. There is NO way the iPhone would be let out the door unless it was significantly better than this thing.
So the I think the function part will be better too!
http://www.tudumo.com - todo list with tags
It's freaking phone. Having full office on it is totally useless.
Agreed! So when is all the hype and bullshit going to melt away? Are they gonna wait and see how many suckers will pay $500 for it first?
It's just a convenience for Apple to use a stunted cutback version of the OS X codebase for this cell phone. It's not really OS X anymore than my consumer-grade router is running NetBSD because it happens to have firmware derived from that codebase.
running the worlds leading OS.
Well, sometimes when one catches the scent of outrageous hype, it's because there is something meager within range.
The 8 GB harddisk space is because this thing will have a light-duty version of the iPod strapped on the side.
The cut-back bundle of binaries, built out of sections of the OS X codebase, exist in the flash memory on this cellphone to run little applets.
You're suffering severe brain damage if you can't see that one coming.
What would be a killer-cellphone for me? One on which I can read GMail, use eBay, use my favorite Web 2.0 apps. "Web 2.0" may sounds buzzwordish to you, but look at the most frequented website. This is what consumer wants. And this is exactly what more and more cellphones are going to give them.
The nice thing with Webapps is that as sucky as you may find them, they're actually not that demanding on the client-side (your cellphone's browser). And, best of all, once Google finds a nice optimization for, say, Google Spreadsheet... There's no patching needed. Nada. Zilch. You open your cellphone's browser and it just works.
Using "Office Mobile designed for MOBILE PHONES" [sic] will NOT be an interesting option once you've got good client/server Webapps.
The webapps are a relatively recent phenomenon and it already has lots and lots of momentum: they'll keep getting better and better and lighter and lighter. Not too mention that I've never seen the cellphones getting less and less powerful. So the "performances" problem will turn in favor of the Webapps.
There are companies like Google, Sun and Apple that do not want the world to go the "all MS way", from the desktop to the mobile phone.
I envision a huge fight and, somehow, I think MS will have a hard time fighting Google, Sun, IBM, Nokia, Apple, etc. Moreover all the Webapps developers SHALL target the cellphone browsers.
The demand for a good AJAX compatible browser on a cellphone is there and companies are coming with answers.
It will take more to defeat that trend than saying: "but Office Mobile is designed for MOBILE PHONES".
Whoops, Reality Strikes!- you tech evangelist. 3g is not available in most of the country, at this point. You know, the part people would be traveling through.
You're talking about a world a few years in the future from now- will business leaders be willing to pay $600 a unit for this world, cross their fingers, and hope it exists? No- businesses tend to be very conservative. It's the consumers that can afford to be evangelists. We're talking about a product coming out in the immediate future, not the gray, mysterious realm of possibility. Futurism is not a viable business strategy.
Why would you not run a local application on a moving computer with an unstable connection? Why would you want to depend on having 3g to simply read a document when you could instead open it up for a quick read or edit on a local application? It's just plain practical. Why would you run a local application in AJAX when you could be running in the much faster
As it stands, google docs and spreadsheets is the best of such web applications, and it's still a pretty meager offering. Advice: take some valium and relax, Microsoft will maintain the business/smart-phone market this time around until 3g+ coverage is complete. If Apple was planning an office suite for it, they'd have said it by now. And yes, my win-98 era desktop is more powerful than the iPhone. Microsoft is still right. Perhaps FUTURE iPHONE will conquer the business smart phone market. I wouldn't put my money on it just yet, though.
Microsoft is about to get their ass handed to them again and they know it. Consumer device or not, gimmick or not, the iPhone is already having a huge impact on the moble market - AND IT'S NOT EVEN OUT YET!!!
Next up: "One time software giant Microsoft files suit against Apple, Inc. for monopolizing the mobile business device market"... well, it wouldn't be the first time someone snatched the pretzels out of Ballmer's mouth.
ewwww... I just grossed myself out.
Yes, the Consumer Market. If you see them create a Zune Phone, that will be competition. They already have a decent marketshare in smartphones- Apple is not the 800 lbs. gorilla, in this case. They still only have the Apple fanboys and general enthusiasts sold at this point. It's about as relevant to business as an iPod and a smartphone taped together.Who says the iPhone is a "meager embedded system"? Dual ARM processors, each in my experience about as powerful as an 800 MHz P4, 8 GB harddisk space including about half a GB for the OS, running the worlds leading OS. That is not "meager". The World != San Fransisco
Are you sure you're not thinking of SymbianOS? Maybe Windows?
The most popular car in North America is the Corolla. Not because it looks 'hip' but because it's dependable and reliable. Same reason the iPod is the number one MP3 player in NA.
Random rants about technology: http://technorants.blogspot.com
Web applications are not the only things you have to look at. I would make the following observations:
1) The iPhone is really designed to be a consumer (rather than a business device). If all you want is a phone for business, get a Nokia.
2) While PocketIE stinks for web development, it is not enough just to have a good web browser. For example, what data do you have access to when you are not connected (say in an airplane)? What about the fact that this means you can't do things like add barcode scanners or the like?
The iPhone looks like a nice consumer cell phone, but I do think that it is irrelevant at least to my business customers.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
hey have you noticed bill gates' picture on this site...it looks like an android or robot... or is he developing a new embedded system that he tried on himself?
Now here's one iPoddy site! iPod Range
Be honest, now, and admit you're working with the same material.
can't act as a mass storage USB stick
Huh? I suppose you may be correct on a technicality since the iPod doesn't have a stick-y form factor, but it certainly can be used as a mass storage device. In fact for several years after the iPod was introduced, every few months we were treated to some news story or other in the popular press of the form "OMG! People can {pirate software, distribute viruses, steal trade secrets} using their iPod's 'external disk' mode! Whatever shall we do?!?"
"A Microsoft exec has turned attack dog, lashing out at Apple's iPhone by saying the device isn't good for business. Why?" after that it should say: Because Microsoft cant take over this and Microsoft would love to own the world.
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Apple doesn't target large business/enterprise markets. They never have.
XServe
Lisa
LaserWriter
Claris
Mac II
Mac Portable
Newton
Taligent
WebObjects
I could go on. Apple wants the business market, but it has never figured out how to meaningfully get it back since it fucked up the Apple ][ lock.
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Apple Network Server. It ran AIX, how much more corporate can you get?
Da Blog
You're arguing that lack of choice is a good thing?
No. I'm arguing that the OP's decision to make shit up in support of his opinion and then pretending it's an objective analysis is a bad thing. I'm also arguing that to claim "lack of choice" is stupid when nobody is being forced to buy an iPhone. If PowerPoint is your killer app, don't buy a phone that doesn't have it. If the ability to run third-party email clients just in case you don't like the included one, don't buy a phone that doesn't have it.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
isn't Apple PROOF that nerddom needn't be socially and aesthetically retarded?
No, SGI proved that in the 80's and 90's. Apple is just a commercialization of that for non-nerds.
Balmer, throw over - the comfy chair!
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
"I'm also arguing that to claim "lack of choice" is stupid when nobody is being forced to buy an iPhone."
It's an important point if you're in the process of deciding you want an iPhone. Nothing stupid about that.
"If the ability to run third-party email clients just in case you don't like the included one, don't buy a phone that doesn't have it."
That wasn't his original point. The fact is, you won't know until you've had one for a bit if it's going to suit you. That's why having a backup option like "alternative apps are being made for it" is a good thing. As a computer user, you should understand this: The purchase decision isn't some binary yes or no thing, it's a matter of the pros and cons. On the plus side, the iPhone has this, this and that. On the con side, it doesn't have this or that or Apple's policies are questionable until I have knowledge of the future.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Office may be on the way out, but i've only ever worked one place that standardized on any other office suite. And even then they made an exception for employee's who needed MS office to get their job done.
At the point the iPhone launches I am confident that it will still be the market leader.
They're so goddamn creative.