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eBay's Ill-Timed Lifetime Achievement Webby
theodp writes "eBay CEO Meg Whitman will accept a special Webby Lifetime Achievement Award next month on behalf of the eBay Community, which has 'permanently changed the way people connect, discover and interact with each other.' Perhaps by then, people will have forgotten how eBay enabled buyer 'Blazers5505' to hook up with sellers like 'oneclickshooting' just weeks before the worst mass shooting in modern US history, prompting eBay to issue a gun-parts-don't-kill-students-guns-and-ammo-do statement that showed little evidence of its celebrated commitment to social consciousness. CEO Whitman, who received $11.1M last year for her leadership efforts, has kept a low profile since tooting eBay's trust-and-safety horn for Wall Street analysts two days after the Va. Tech rampage."
Ebay didn't kill anyone, sheesh. If he hadn't gotten the parts there, he would've gotten them somewhere else. What next, a story on how McDonalds is supporting criminals by allowing the to buy lunch there?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see the hypocrisy.
Cho bought holsters and empty ammunition clips off of eBay, something they stated while refuting the rumors that any actual ammo or guns had been purchased. eBay expressed their regrets that any item purchased on their site was related to the shootings in any way, and contacted law enforcement and offered their assistance. How is this not committed to social conciousness?
Who are we going to crucify next in our crusade against anyone and anything that might have contributed to the VA Tech shootings?
Oxygen?
-"Law enforcement officials confirm that Cho Seung-Hui was seen to have been breathing during the video sent to the NBC. It is unclear what role the earth's atmosphere may have played, but the investigation is looking at every angle.
'We can not exclude the possibility that oxygen in the earth's atmosphere had a catalytic effect on Cho,' chief of Police Jurkfashe Eidjit stated to the press, 'We will be investigating this very thoroughly.'"
Shoes?
-"In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, police discovered numerous articles of clothing, including shoes, in the dorm room of Cho Seung-Hui.
'We are deeply disturbed by the presence of these articles,' investigator Stew Piddington stated, 'It is clear that Cho surrounded himself with many horrifying items, such as shoes.'
Companies such as Nike, Reebok and New Balance deny the claim that shoes had any influence on the shooter."
Or how about NBC?
-"In a shocking new development, CNN reports that the Virginia Tech shooter, Cho Seung-Hui, exclusively watched MSNBC.
'We've said for years now that MSNBC is a corruptor of our youth,' a CNN spokesman stated at the press conference, 'But now we have definitive proof.'
MSNBC PR representatives were quick to deny the corrupting influence it had upon Cho, but public opinion has turned against them. The MSNBC offices were burned down by an angry mob this morning in a display of solidarity with the mourning families of Virginia Tech.
'We can't let evil institutions such as these continue to propogate messages of violence and hatred,' one of the crowd stated, 'There's no telling what might become acceptible in our society if these unethical businesses aren't stopped.'"
Seriously, there were a lot of factors involved in the shootings, but trying to attack ebay as though they had personally furnished Cho with his weapons is ridiculous.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Recent information indicates that it will be necessary to also ban hammers from sale on Ebay, to avert future criticism along these same lines.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
What's your point, twerp? That somehow Ebay doesn't support your gun control agenda and is therefore bad in some way? Get a life.
If the jerk didn't get a gun, he would have just run over a crowd with his car, or he would have built an ammonium nitrate bomb. Evil and crazy men will do evil and crazy things.
Quite frankly the situation might have been ameliorated to some degree if concealed carry were legal on college campuses (VTech). Then a legally carrying civilian might have been able to stop some of the slaughter.
Why the Ebay smear?
"Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
By "empty clips" the linked article meant "magazines," as of course you know. Technical quibbling about terminology is just trolling.
I'm not sure where the problem is in Ebay's position. Anyone can go into a store and legally by a gun clip, without a background check, and without being 18 (assuming the clip itself is legal to sell). Therefore, Ebay has no responsibility to verify the status of the buyer, unlike guns, and bullets.
It's the same thing with cigarettes and cigars. I can't buy tobacco products on ebay, but I can buy a butane lighter. Is this inconstancy on Ebay's part? Nope... anyone can buy a lighter, but you need to be 18 to purchase cigarettes.
Your reality is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. - Baron Munchausen
Politicize much? Don't bother to blame Cho for the shooting, it was clearly eBay's fault.
is this for real? EBay has made HUGE differences. They have moved auctions to the web in a big way. Now, you may blame e-bay for selling the weapon, but then why not blame the steal worker who dug the iron as well? Or the farmer who provided the food to the steal worker so that they can live. EBay did not even sell the gun. They simply provided a means to it being sold. If your logic says that everybody who is connected is guilty, then you have blood on your hands.
And yes, e-bay, the gun maker, the steal worker, and the gun did not kill. Cho did. And he could have done more had he made IED and used them. Are you going to stop selling gas or other fuels for that potential?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Yup, same guy. If it's necessary to give him a soapbox, perhaps you could at least remove the dishonest framing of these pieces as news?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Yes, because technical quibbling over terminology is really looked down upon here at Slashdot.
See you later folks, I'm off to go steal music through the tubes.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
Holy crap, that is a pretty trollish summary.
Admittedly, EBay has problems. But EBay didn't shoot anyone in Virginia.
Furthermore, they didn't cause Cho to go haywire. The fact that they made it easy for him to get magazines is not a problem -- it's a sign of how the internet has changed how people interact with eachother -- which is exactly the reason why EBay got a webby.
Mediums for exchange of information and property are not bad. People who use them for bad purposes are bad.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Gee, would it be possible to compose a more inane, hysterical post? I kind of doubt it. Every rhetorical flourish we decry from the the censors and prohibitionists we despise is reprised here--but since it is about GUNS and EBAY, well, were just supposed to swallow it?
They're correct about the whole guns don't kill people thing. This is Slashdot, so I'll make a technology analogy, even though people here tend to be far more political than technical. We like getting on Microsoft's case when they fix a bug, pointing out that there are far more existing bugs that they didn't fix. Hackers (or crackers, if you must) will exploit any available means to gain access to a system, so patching one hole in a system with many doesn't do a whole lot.
The same thing happens with gun law restrictions. Do you really think that if this guy wouldn't have been able to buy ammo on Ebay that he wouldn't have gone on a shooting rampage? He would have just found a different way of doing it, whether it be with a hunting shotgun, a sword, or a fertilizer bomb. Keep in mind that while I'm in favor of concealed carry, it doesn't mean I think that people should be able to access semiautomatic firearms without a significant (1 month?) waiting period.
I know that comparing the shooting to a system being hacked isn't all that accurate, but I'm trying to make a generalized point. There are many things out there that have both good and bad aspects, but that doesn't mean that we should focus only on the bad and ignore the good. Doing so is shortsighted and kneejerk, similar to all the save-the-children and ban toothpaste from airplanes crap. Be consistent in your criticism of this stuff.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
Wow, talk about a sad, sad case of an editorial masquerading as a bit of news. ~a
What word rhymes with buried alive?
to kdawson!! Congrats on the award! How about a snarky, back-handed, sarcastic award speech for us?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
but it sure does seem that Slashdot's articles have been increasingly more "reactionary" or, at least, provocatively worded.
I mean, it's one thing to specialize your content for a particular audience, it's quite another to "pander" to them.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Last time I checked, profits, not moral behavior was rewarded by share holders and pat-each-other-on-the-back webby awards.
As long as Meg delivers the profits, there are no problems.
If you feel strongly the other way, then maybe it's time for you to participate in our government and change that?
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
I remember the days when I wasn't treated as a criminal by eBay, ok criminal might be a bit harsh but I remember when my user ID was my email address, then at the end of 2003 they forced everyone who had an email address ID to change it or they'd change it for them, then they started filtering contact between members.
Not everyone who contacts another member through eBay's filtered message system is soliciting to buy something off-eBay (heck, eBay still get a nice cut from those off-eBay purchases anyway what with owning PayPal and all), so why should we all jump through those annoying bloody hoops? hoops which don't really help the community, especially when those hoops stop users doing rudimentary checking up on buyers and sellers to see if the person/company they're about to deal with has a shady history, sure they said it was for our benefit so people couldn't spam us, well so what, spam is a fact of the interenet, if you don't like spam, get the fuck off the internet.
Let's concentrate only on the harm that guns make possible. That way we can demonify them. We can say that guns kill 20,000 people per year (in the US), so guns should be banned. But what if we did the same for automobiles? Cars kill 50,000 people per year (in the US), so cars should doubly be banned.
Nothing is wholly good, or bad, except possible people who try to claim something is wholly good or bad. THEY are wholly bad.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
If the webby's gave out an award for the company/individual that destroyed profits, lowered wages in Silicon Valley and increased competition.
It just doesn't work like that.
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
Sure they might have let one guy buy some bullets but let's not forget all the dangerous people they stopped from buying virtual +5 swords!
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
Add slashdot editor/submitter to personal block list for posting story that is nothing but flamebait. And only a day after I was praising digg for stealing our idiots. Looks like they missed a few.
Random much? How can you compare an auction site to the teeny-bopper hang-out (Myspace)? There are plenty of normal people selling plenty of normal things on eBay. It definitely is not on the same level as myspace.
Dotslash??
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
....pretty fucking brain-dead to blame eBay for what one homicidal nutcase does.
Only an asshole blames the guns for killing people.
This article summary disgusts me. If you think eBay is responsible (even in part) for the school shooting then you should wake up. There was nothing wrong with what they did. The implication is an insult to the rational people who read this site.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
To imply that Ebay is responsible in anyway for Cho's deranged killing spree is dishonest and contemptible. It's not like Ebay or Paypal are firearm friendly to begin with.
Mr. Cho certainly isn't the first to purchase gun parts off Ebay, nor will he be the last. His actions don't implicate Ebay any more than the seller of the clips, the manufacturer of the clips, or the delivery company which transported them across the country.
I just woke up and was not thinking. You are correct.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It's a worldwide marketplace. How many murderers do you think get their schtuff off ebay, anyway?
There's no tracking.
Hell, I know military guys that get a lot of their stuff from ebay. This is mindless yellow journalism. How the hell was ebay to know, or the seller for that matter, that the buyer was going to use these perfectly legal items for bad?
And the webby's cool too.
....Says the hypocrite selling pet supplies on the net. Wow, you are just so elite.
There is a war going on for your mind.
Greenpeace issues a statement expressing their displeasure on how eBay has a poor environmental policy when it comes to computer manufacturing and disposal. An eBay spokesperson responded that eBay does not manufacture any computers. To which Greenpeace responded that eBay re-sells computers and therefore shares the social responsibility to ensure that the computers are manufactured and disposed in the most environmentally friendly way. To which the eBay spokesperson said, "Bite my shiny metal ass."
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
An appropriate first post for a submission that is a full blown obvious troll.
If a bank robber makes his getaway in a Ford, it doesn't mean that Ford is somehow responsible for the robbery. If a pair of kidnappers co-ordinate their activities via a Nokia phone on the Verizon network, it doesn't make Nokia and Verizon responsible for their actions. And if a drunken husband grabs a butcher knife purchased at Target and kills his wife with it, neither Target nor the knife maker has any responsibility.
The real agenda of the person who wrote this spin is to say, "Guns and any associated parts are bad. If you deal with weapons in any way, you are evil. Therefore, eBay is evil because it doesn't have the policy I want it to have."
Individuals have to take responsibility for what they do, and the rest of us have to keep a sense of proportion about how we react to the actions of crazed lunatics. Statistically, somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 people have died in this country in car accidents in the last 24 hours, but nobody is stupid enough or irresponsible enough to suggest that the utility of car travel be taken away from everyone else because of these deaths. Bad things happen sometimes in life. Sometimes we can't control all of them. We will NEVER have a completely safe world -- and it's not going to made perfect by following the panicked political agenda of those who insist that the rights of millions be destroyed (especially when their favored course of action wouldn't even save lives).
David
Slashdot is apparently now accepting terrible editorialization of news stories.
It is well known that eBay does not know its buyers and sellers. It cannot filter out scammers and fraudsters. Expecting it to filter out murderers is even more insane -- so insane that I can only speculate that this is not what the poster even has in mind. I assume, then, that the poster's complaint is that eBay allows these items to be listed in the first place.
Apparently, the poster is extremely fond of gun control. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Choosing to capitalize on a tragedy to motivate a witch hunt in the name of your ideologies is another matter entirely. eBay allowed listing of these parts in full and complete compliance with state and federal laws -- laws which eBay has, in general, gone above and beyond the call of duty to satisfy.
This witch hunt smells to me of exactly the same bullshit we went through after 9/11, when people looked for anyone and anything to blame, and when highly questionable "solutions" were pushed through the legislature with little thought or caution. And now after Va. Tech, we've got the usual crowd of people utterly unable to accept a world in which tragedy is a reality, attempting to blame anyone and anything for allowing this to happen. eBay gets blamed for allowing Cho to purchase magazines, even though these magazines were readily available elsewhere. Video games get blamed for allowing Cho to "train" for the murder. And, of course, the right of the People to keep and bear arms gets blamed for giving him the freedom to own firearms in the first place. Of course, the second amendment is hardly the only victim in the aftermath of all this: the first amendment has also suffered considerably, with people getting arrested for having highly laughable "warning signs," like violent writing.
Frankly, these school shooting do not scare me. I fully accept that someday, it could be me among the dead in such a tragedy -- or my wife, my sons, or my daughters. But, eventually, my name will be among the dead for one reason or another. I refuse to live what days I have left, be it 100 years or be it a week, gripped in fear about when the curtain will drop on my life. And so what scares me far more than school shooters and terrorists are the people who are unable to do this; people whose fear is so profound that they will not only undermine their own lives in a futile attempt to stop death, but they'll demand that you undermine yours as well, ironically by undermining the very rights that literally millions of people have voluntarily stepped into the line of fire to protect.
So, in conclusion, I do not find Cho to be a terribly threatening in the grand scheme of things -- not nearly so threatening as folks like Jack Thompson or, apparently, the author of this post, who attempt to inflame the matter with laughable policy suggestions that curtail our freedoms and do nothing to maker us safer.
Thanks for ruining my day. I don't expect to see idiotic stories like "ebay had a role in the VT shooting" on slashdot.
Go join the socialist party and protest out in the street with like minded morons where you can safely be ignored. Better yet go to the library and read some books on capitalism and individualism so you can learn why ebay does such a great service by facilitating commerce around the world, and why individual gun ownership is required as a last defense against tyranny.It can be argued that cars are needed to survive in the current culture.
It can't not be argued that pools are needed, or hard to get rid of.
Yet they kill more children then firearms.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just because their social conscience differs from your own does not mean that they are wrong. When you persecute a company or an individual out of an outright intolerance for their beliefs then just how much of a dialogue do you expect?
We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.
-- Anais Nin
The ignorance of the writer does track with the general ignorance of the subject by those hellbent on banning guns. Generally a gun banner is someone who doesn't know anything about firearms, doesn't WANT to know and most especially wants to wallow in the fear their ignorance produces. They are also highly likely to be unstable people projecting their own instability onto the public at large.
This is a stupid thread inspired by a stupid press article on a stupid subject. eBay is not in any way responsible for facilitating lawful commerce in lawful products. Cho bears sole responsibility for his insane rampage, nobody has to share the guilt with the possible exception of whoever made the decision to keep his court judgement of mental unfitness out of the instant check system. But even there it is doubtful he could have been prevented from going on a killing spree, there is always homemade explosives, poison gas, car bombs, black marget weapons, etc.
Democrat delenda est
Gun, clip, or holster, what does it matter. it is still the same issue. If you are going to blame game, then you have to blame all (including you and me), or none.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
kdawson didn't write the summary. If you're going to give a Webby for snarkiest headline, it should at least go to theodp, who wrote the damn thing. But theodp should give props to his producer, kdawson, in his acceptance speech.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
This is the biggest pile of liberal garbage I've read al day. Ammunition magazines are a legal commodity for anyone to own. They're "bullet holders". They are not regulated, nor should they be. It is not eBay's job to make sure people using their website for commerce are mentally stable. It's the state's job to make sure that people who are a threat to others or themselves are committed to an institution where they will receive treatment. Should we be concerned with where he bought his car tires too? Give me a break. The only person to blame here is the shooter. If you must assign blame to someone who enabled him, blame the doctor that didn't commit him like he should have.
This is simply a troll article. There are hundreds if not thousands of items for sale on Ebay that could be used as a weapon by a determined person. Those parts by themselves would have had no value if a known wacko hadn't been allowed to purchase a firearm. I thought that new firearm owners where screened for mental history.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
I worked for the company that sold the 9/11 hijackers their hotels. Could we have stopped them?
What about American and United airlines?
How far will the polemics go? There's fair laws for the posession of guns already.
People need to stop focusing on the things and start helping those who are ill. It's obvious that Cho was mentally ill. It looks like many people did try, and some attempts were successful. But really - let's get wicked and blame the people who are, in my mind, really at fault:
1. The university knew he was in deep trouble - several teachers and students reported many, many problems with the poor fellow. Why was he still there?
2. The family weren't informed or simply ignored (I would assume) a huge number of problems in their son.
3. The mental health community, Doctor's, Counselors and Psychologist apparently didn't follow up on Cho.
4. Perhaps the insurance company was at fault here? Did they pressure the mental health workers to "get him well" without a thorough investigation?
Really - guns, while they were the final horror of this situation - had little to do with why Cho went *snap*.
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
So do you block it in your HOSTS file just to say that you block it in your HOSTS file? Because you could just, um... not go to it...
Stop blaming the guns. Or are you advocating "censorship" of eBay based on one person's slanted view of the constitution? People kill people. Guns are just one tool for doing it.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I'm sorry, but the attitude of this summary is just a little ridiculous. So somebody bought ammo clips over eBay? This is exceptional how? Clips aren't exactly heavily regulated items and believe it or not we still do enjoy some freedoms in this country. Honestly, I think whoever blames eBay or the seller of the clips for ANYTHING in this should be ashamed of themselves. There is responsibility here, but that responsibility lies with those who knew there was a problem and did nothing, and most of all on the perpetrator himself. Respectfully, I must completely disagree with the summary here and say eBay was absolutely in the right with their "gun-parts-don't-kill-students-guns-and-ammo-do" statement.
Spoons and spoon makers are responsible for numerous people being fat, without spoons they couldn't shovel in the lard it would simply run through their forks. Anyone supporting spoon companies is directly responsible for fat people and should be ashamed.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
I see the content review system broke down here. I am glad to see the vast majority of comments are decrying this sort of myopic "reporting." How does this stuff get through?
I think I've read the summary twice, but still haven't fully understood what it's about. ;-)
Maybe it's just because I'm not an American and I have higher demands on language
Really, I agree with what people have said above. eBay nor its sellers/community/etc. is responsible for what that piece of crap did. This shouldn't have any affect on an award and shouldn't cause it to be ill-timed. It's ridiculous to link these two together in such a way. There's no need to provide similar examples of why this is stupid as there are many above. It's time to let companies do what they need to do. No one is happy about the VT shootings, but harassing eBay and its sellers isn't going to help anyone. Btw, this is coming from a recent Virginia Tech graduate.
This is just plain paranoia and mis-trust of people in general. Things happen. If he had not been able to get the gun, perhaps it would have been a car he drove through a crowd or some other implement. Regardless, I think he would have been able to get his hands on a gun.
I spent two years in Australia, the bad parts of Sydney, (Campbelltown, Bankstown, etc), as well as further south coast and in the Snowy Mountain region. There, in Aus., where guns are practically illegal, I had guns pulled on me, was shot at, and witness gang warfare. Making guns illegal doesn't make them go away or make it impossible to get them. It just makes it impossible to get them legally. Are the people in Oz bad, no. There are just a few bad ones, just like here in the good 'ol US.
Regardless, it is not the gun we are afraid of, it is other people that scare us. Perhaps theodp should realize that people are good too. Relax, if someone really wanted to kill you, there are a million ways they could do it and never touch a firearm.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other" -John Ada
Nice spin, submitter.
Last night for dinner I cut up some lettuce with a chef's knife, then later used a shovel to plant some flowers. Others have used those tools to kill people and bury the body, so I'm glad the hardware store I bought my stuff from didn't have any Social Consciousness, otherwise they never would have sold those items.
There are 01 kinds of cars in the world. The General Lee, and everything else.
I know it's not a big deal. It certainly doesn't bother me when folks call magazines clips, but just in case anyone out there wanted to be informed what the difference is:
A magazine is enclosed. All the bullets are inside of it. These are the things you see on TV.
A clip is a length of metal retainer that bullets slide onto. It holds them in a row and feeds into (my opinion) antiquated weapons. Picture: http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/comparison.jpg
There are also belts (like rambo used) and drums (which is a neatly folded belt in a box)
I bought my magazines on ebay. The ones that came with my pistol are expensive and I wanted cheap ones for when I practice (ten dollars each vs 35 dollars each). I fail to see the issue here. I can buy magazines in town without any problems anyway. Some psycho guy could easily make a bomb or buy illegal weapons. Yeah, this time he used legal means to get armed. It's worth considering that the recent mall shooting and all the school shootings occurred in gun free zones, that some school shootings have been stopped by legal gun-owners, and that there are plenty of reasonable complaints to make against ebay without this silliness.
eh, whatever.
associating eBay with the killer at VT is an error. I was angry about this at first but I have calmed down. some people violate the boundaries of acceptable behavior, it is what it is. this post is garbage and i will stop wasting my time now...
accurately define good according to a criteria and seek it out.
I'm not a gun nut. I don't own any weapons. I think of the NRA as an organization that tends toward paranoia, and which attracts more than its share of fringe, radical elements. But I am completely behind the rights protected by the 2nd Ammendment. The reasons the founders put that in the Bill of Rights still exist today.
If some people want to ban guns, their path is clear: an ammendment to the Constitution. They are perfectly welcome to try getting such a thing passed.
Notice how Slashdot went nuts when a school board put a kid in a "special school" for making a game map of his school but then goes after EBay because somebody shot up a school after buy holsters and empty clips.
,his family, his roommates?
Both are cases of fear of those that are not like you.
I will bet big money that the person that wrote the summary really hates all guns. I am also willing to bet they don't hunt or shoot targets for fun. There for their mistrust of anyone that has anything to do with guns. They are all gun nuts waiting to shoot up a school. They are differnt from them and are not to be trusted.
BTW I really am not a gun person. I don't hunt or own a gun myself.
The school board members probably don't game. They know that the kids at that shoot up the school in Colorado played violent video games and that the young man that shot up VT made maps for a violent video game. They may or may not know that they where not of VT. They may also know that the September 11th terrorists used a video game "Flight Simulator" to practice their attack. People that play violent video games are differnt from them so they do not trust them.
BTW the last FPS I played I think was Quake. I am not really into FPS but I do love Flight Simulator. I also really dislike games like GTA. I find them distasteful and will not play them myself.
It is easy to hate the stranger. Those that are not like you. It is dangerous to trust the stranger. These are rules that go back to the cave man days. What scares me the most is most "Open minded" people have this exact same view but they just don't see it.
I have no idea how we can get rid of this trait. It is the core of racism and all other forms of prejudice. Probably the best we can ever hope to do is to admit that we all have it and to not let it rule our lives.
The simple truths are just this. The vast majority of gun owners will never shoot up a school. The vast majority of gamers will never shoot up a school.
The real questions about the VT shooting are a lot more harder.
Why didn't the laws on the books stop him from buying the gun in first place?
And the really sad question is just this.
What in his life made him so unhappy that this seemed like a good idea? How can a person feel so unloved and alone that going around and killing a large group of innocent people and then killing himself is a good idea?
Where where his friends
Ebay has no blame or guilt in this.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Lifetime achievement award? I got one off of eBay.
Controlling the flow of guns and other weapons is much easier than controlling, say, an mp3 of Lars Ulrich screaming or a certain hex number recently made famous. Guns are physical objects made of atoms, and somehow, by person to person meeting or the US Mail or a drop point or something, they must be passed from one person to the other.
It makes little sense to attempt to ban advertisements for gun sales on craigslist, gun sales on ebay, or posts of the same on usenet. If transfering the weapon between the two individuals is a crime, they will eventually have to meet somewhere or mail something to do it.
It would make far more sense for the online forums to simply allow the posts. The authorities can browse ebay and read craigslist also, and take appropriate action if illegal activity seems planned.
If you want to stop a routine illegal gun trade, for example someone running a mail-order firearms business that delivers accross state lines to P.O. Boxes, then the best ways to go about it are already well known and used by law enforcement. They can sting the seller by purchasing the guns themselves, just like they did to Cheech Marin when he was selling bongs and other societally threatening material via mail order. They can place a simple metal detector at central package trans-shipment facilities, and select some subset of packages to actually x-ray, and then check the address against the list of Federally Licensed Firearm dealers; this is similar to how they occasionally sniff large numbers of packages with dogs and select a few for further investigation. The point of all these exercises is to make sure you can't go into the contraband market for very long without eventually being caught, and it limits the blackmarket to a constantly turning over population of the stupid and desparate.
After all, they pay agents to sit around prentending to be 8 year olds to catch weirdos whacking off at home. Why can't they click over to ebay or craigslist when there is a slow moment in the spank-to-child-fucking chatrooms ?
Unlike drugs or child porn, some firearms transactions on ebay might be legal. For ebay to ban all of them doesn't help law enforcement catch anyone.
Ebay's banning of firearms transactions are simply pandering to people such as wrote this slashdot article. Ebay, like many big companies and big institutions like colleges, tries very hard to avoid controversy; when threatened with controversy by whatever hysterical group has popped up, they seek to shut them up. The result has no effect on the population of unethical weapons dealers, it just clutters the newspapers and slashdot.
This crappy slanted submission is barely even diggworthy. I'd call it yellow journalism, but it insults the name of journalism.
Seriously, this is fucking trash.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
Oh, sorry, I thought you were asking for one...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
I'm all for hating eBay for the genuinely annoying things they do, as well as their , their questionable exclusion of Google Chuckout and other non-Paypal payment gateways, but blaming them for some random nutjob buying something which isn't even against the TOS to list - or illegal to purchase - is really clutching at straws.
How is the VT event in any way remotely relevant to this Lifetime Achievement award, or - for that matter - how is the Webby award even newsworthy?
It's the method, not the goal. From a number of perspectives, more readers/posters on Slashdot is a good goal for the editors. Doing so by finding new stories, making a better discussion system, keeping the polls interesting, etc, will increase the readers & not piss off the current ones. Over the short term, making flamebait editorial remarks will increase the number of posts/clicks, but they won't be happy posts or clicks (at least not for a significant percentage.) Piss off enough people, and they'll (eventually) start leaving.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
I am rather stupified that slashdot would attempt to become a gun control forum. What are we, boys and girls? If MW gets a Webbie, good for her, and to E-Bay. If the next bomber buys his fertilizer at WalMart, do we decry them as perveyers of WMD?
When things go right it isn't news.
And I don't mean that cynically.
It's also a function of having a historically unprecedented instantanneous access to global "news".
Imagine if we printed a story for every time a plane landed successfully, etc.
gunbroker link
This is an eBay-like setup for people to sell guns across the internet. Before the anti-gun hyperventilators (like the submitter) start, guns can only be shipped to a Federal Firearms License holder (or a C&R, but that's a special case that I won't go into). You then go to them and have a federal background check performed on you, and you pick up your gun.
Many computer nerds I know often buy rare machineguns this way. (no, not semi-auto Democrat-newspeak "assault weapons", real belt-fed working machineguns like MG-42s and M2HBs as well as full auto assault rifles like the M16)
Occasionally, a 105mm howitzer (includes 20 rounds free!), RPG, or 20mm anti-aircraft cannon will show up on gunbroker as well. Yes, private citizens can easily own WORKING assault rifles, frag grenades, machineguns, howitzers, smart bombs, and anti-aircraft cannons. No legal citizen-owned machinegun, mortar, bomb, howitzer, or grenade has ever been used in any crime. Ever.
It's also interesting to note that there's no explicit regulation prohibiting you from owning, say , a nuclear-armed cruise missile - it's just you can't find anyone willing to sell them to you.
Seems that if you can blame eBay for a nutjob killing people, then you can blame eBay for scam artists ripping people off. But why stop there? Blame eBay for deaths caused by drunk drivers who bought cars, furries who bought stuffed animals, and trolling Slashdot submitters who bought new computers.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
It's getting difficult to keep track of all the companies I'm supposed to be morally outraged at... I'm surprised that Slashdot permitted it through and tagged it so benignly, clearly someone has a political point they wanna make... Do people really blame Ebay for school shootings now? Perhaps we should get rid of all technology that enables violence and violent thoughts to be conveyed... --Ray
http://www.beanleafpress.com
That eBay allows people to sell http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/02/18 39251/
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
[eBay] permanently changed the way people connect, discover and interact with each other.
Huh? I don't use eBay to "connect" with anybody, I use it to figure out what a reasonable "going" price is on a piece of hardware. If anything, eBay represents how to lose money by selling your stuff, and how to get conned because 'eBay is safe' (yeah, right...). eBay is out to steal money, and now that they've acquired PayPal they have an even easier way to do so. This "eBay community" idea is a load of crap.
When I think of "connecting" with people, I think Craigslist or Freecycle. No ridiculous fees, just people in your area that want to get rid of stuff. Buyer beware, ALWAYS, but at least you know who you bought it from, and usually where they live. If you get conned on such a site, it's usually easy to track down the person who conned you.
The only "achievement" award eBay should earn is the accomplishment of taking money from people and yet leaving them feel good about it.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
That's akin to holding Virginia Tech accountable for the shootings simply by permitting people to be there. Is the NCAA going to deny them eligibility because of the massacre? Will they be ineligible to win a championship henceforth? Of course not. Anyone can do anything at any time, on any medium. How did this get slashdotted? Some of the most blatant flamebait I've seen.
It is possible that he did a LOT of e-bay and simply lost out lots of bids to rich folks. In the end, all he could get was the mag. and a holster and that set him off.
Or just maybe, he was a whack job.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You are some how blaming eBay for VT!? I am astounded at your lack of reason and logic.
You're not the one in danger of downplaying the events at Virginia Tech. I just can't decide whether it's a eBay hater using the shootings as justification, or a gun hater using eBay as an excuse to spout off. In either case it's a rather crass use of a horrific event for political posturing.
I'm a firm believer in increased gun control myself but nonsense like this is an insult to the discussion.
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
The net and web are built to be free. Free interaction, free exchange of ideas, in the case of eBay, a free(r) exchange of physical objects. Whenever you give a bunch of people freedom, chances are someone is gonna abuse it. Remember that old saying, "Liberty or death!"? Say it, let it sink in. Afraid of muggers or lunatics? Get a license, a gun, and the training to use it, so you can protect yourself and those around you. There are crazy people out there who are going to arm themselves no matter what anyone does. Don't let them get you without a fight.
Ok he got magazines, not filled, but empty magazines, get over it people!
Seriously, Ebay has changed the way we interact. Why are we quibbling over this? Oh yeah people want to shame ebay for this and blame it on anyone other than the student who commited the murder. They didn't tell him to do it, they didn't pull the trigger, this is one sale out of a couple million?
Ebay and the founders deserve this award, hell they deserve another award for taking an idea from the dot com bubble and making a couple billion dollars off of it (kudos to them for that). Trying to throw dirt on them now is petty as hell, and Kdawson needs to figure out if he wants to keep posting biased and muck racking summaries or if he wants to actually post interesting news.
Why do people need to tool around with guns in their pockets again?
I don't get it, really.
You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.
This is true. The producer is always stealing the credit for "Best Picture" at the Oscars, though. I wonder if any producer ever does the same at the Razzies?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
More use of a tragedy to push misdirected blame and a political agenda. God, I love this country! And *I'll* probably get modded troll.
So do you block it in your HOSTS file just to say that you block it in your HOSTS file? Because you could just, um... not go to it...
.. except for slashdot of course.
haha, hosts files are so 1997. I got an entire cluster of bigIPs blocking ALL of the internet. That's how fucking above it all I am.
Anyone who actually believes that shit is more faggy than the flamingest homo ever to live.
... I also have a hard time signing on to the idea that having one or more armed students shooting it out with Cho would have led to a better result. I think it highly likely that the student body would have ended up caught in the cross-fire, with no good way to escape, and no easy way for the police to figure out who were the bad guy(s). Among the possibilities: Cho bursts into a classroom and begins shooting the students. An armed student begins returning fire. Then a third armed student, hearing this, enters the room. Whom does he shoot? Where do all these bullets end up (given typical college classroom construction, at least some will penetrate into adjoining rooms)? What are the police supposed to do when they enter?
I think adding more armed students into the mix at VT would have changed situation from "slaughter pen" to "Vietnam firefight", only with poorer training and worse aim... which is not necessarily an improvement.
I used to generally think this way, however, NOLA is a unique city in it's arrangement. When I first moved here, I asked people which was the good and bad 'sides' of town. Most places I lived...it was like the east/west side....or north/south side. In New Orleans...well, there are/were pockets of good within a lot of bad. The projects, rather than being on one far side of town, are almost in a circle scattered out around the town. Weird place...like on St. Charles Ave...you have multi-million dollar homes, and 2 blocks back from it...can be 'crack central'.
So, the problem is...before the storm...most violence was center in the projects, but, many main arteries of traffic flow through them into good neighborhoods, and you get spillover into the nice areas. However, NOW, since the storms broke everything up different situation. Projects aren't open, they are still shut down. But, you have people who's kids either got back somehow or stayed...and are on their own with no supervision. Combine that with so many of the abandoned neighborhoods where these kids, and gangs and drug dealers have been setting up shop in many of the old abandoned houses. The Nat'l Guard is still here helping with that situation, but, still is pretty bad. So, in essence the old problems aren't being contained strictly anymore.
Combine that with an ineffective and most likely, incompetent DA and justice system down here that is struggling, and you have serious problems.
What I suggested won't solve ALL these problems, but if you do get some affordable housing in, do it in a mixed setting so you don't concentrate so much in small areas, and have strict requirments about drugs and criminal records, you'll be off to a good start with the good hard working poor people. It gives them much more opportunity than the old projects did, and it breeds less crime making everyone safer.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Could we please have a little more bias in the writeup? Just a little more bias and I won't even have to consider what I think about the topics anymore.
That's what I like about Slashdot; there's plenty of people around ready and willing to do your thinking for you.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
There's never a bad time to tell agenda-pushing, scandal-creating trolls like theodp to go fuck off.
WTH is up with this society that keeps finding more and more reasons to blame anyone and everyone else for bad things that happen except the person/people actually responsible. Ya know, don't blame guns, don't blame gun dealers, don't blame auction sites, the blame falls solely on the scumbags shooting them...whether they had a troubled childhood, substance abuse problems, molestation issues or whatever else, it still boils down to being THERI FAULT, they did it. Guns don't fire themselves...at least none of mine every have.
dB Masters
Are you really this stupid? You think people are just going to pull out their guns and run to the sound of gunshots? Anyone that does that deserves to get shot.
It's simple: you hear gunshots, you hole up in the classroom, bar the door, and wait for the authorities to come and secure the place. Until then, if some gunman breaks into the room, then you go ahead and shoot him. Even the real VT students did all this, with the exception of shooting the gunman, because they didn't have any way of defending themselves besides barring the door.
Is this really that hard to understand?
Only the makers of large-sized spoons should be held accountable for epidemic of obesity. After all, if fat people had really teeny spoons, not only would be be only able to eat very small quantities of food at a time (thus requiring much more 'scooping,' which is exercise), but extremely obese people will be unable to properly hold the teeny spoons, resulting in them being completely unable to use the spoon for gluttonous consumption of fattening foods.
It's also worth mentioning that Israel had some problems with terrorists going into their schools and shooting kids. The solution? Armed teachers and parents. Terrorism isn't a problem in Israeli schools any more.
There's now rumors that maps of American schools have been found on computers in Iraq owned by terrorist cells. We may very well see a large-scale attack on our schools soon, thanks to our policy of disarmament, which obviously worked so well for the single madman at VT.
The submitter does have an aol address, he cant be trusted
Is that our friend 'theodp' here apparently DOES blame gun parts for the VT massacre; but no doubt can't imagine how anyone can think violent video games are involved. I always enjoy how people are quick to blame and outlaw other people's hobbies, interests, livelihoods, but somehow think theirs are automatically acceptable. I think it helps when people have a latent fear of something like firearms, and would prefer to see them outlawed so they don't have to continue to repress that same fear. It'd be the equiviliant of me pushing to outlaw bungee-jumping.
Does anyone out there ever think we'll be able to agree that people in the United States should actually be FREE to do as they like, so long as they do not violate another's right to life, liberty, or property?
"He that would have his own liberty secure must guard even his own enemy from oppression. If he does not, he establishes a precedent that will reach even himself." - Thomas Paine
+1 to "flamebait". How is eBay any different -- morally -- from a pawnshop in Compton? Hate to see /. descending to the Arledge/tabloids level here. Efficient open markets have risks -- but closed is worse. Those poor kids and professors lost their lives because of a loonball, and a system and family who did not deal with him effectively; maybe because of lax handgun laws; but not because something happened over the Internet.
As you may or may not know, the police have no obligation to protect you. Their job is to show up afterwards and assign blame. The courts have ruled this over and over. No one is responsible for your personal saftey but you.
heres a little light reading if you disagree:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protectio n.html
http://veritasdomain.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/some -considerations-before-the-gun-control-rhethorics/
Man, the stuff that you can find there isn't music. It's ordered noise.
Screw off kdawson. Posting this crap on the front page and blaming ebay is the most retarted thing I've seen on slashdot since JonKats first starting putting his shit on here.
Oh yeah, to ebay and the rest of the world, they are called MAGAZINES, not CLIPS.
Pure flamebait!
> But then shouldn't you be okay with The People democratically deciding to give up guns?
Remember that we are not a Democracy, we have a Constuitional Republic based on the idea that we have inalianable rights. Now with that out of the way we come to the core of your argument. Could We The People, acting through our elected representitves violate the 2nd Amendment? No. That is why we have a Constituition, to prevent us from descending into mob rule. If we were really hell bent on such a wicked and stupid notion though we do have the ability to amend our Constituition to remove the limitation. Doing so has a much higher bar than a simple majority vote, this is an intentional design feature, not a bug.
And I'd fight such a movement to amend any single article of the Bill of Rights tooth and nail. But if it were done through the proper channels it would be fair and I'd have no moral right to shoot politicians in the head over it. However, knowing the axiom that a government that doesn't trust it's people with arms shouldn't I'd realize the hell on earth that was coming and start looking for a new place to call home. Too bad there ain't any good candidates right now but if a few million Americans moved somewhere we might be able to get something going.... we did it once ya know.
Democrat delenda est
These are called "straw man" arguments, and are informal fallacies. Of course, who in their right mind would ban oxygen? You are misdirecting and misrepresenting the argument.
The argument is NOT to ban, limit, or restrict everything that aided the killer. It is only to ban, limit, or restrict items whose sole, or significant, purpose is to enhance killing. If you wish to make analogies, why not compare this to the sale of land mines, cyanide, and electric chairs.
"Seriously, there were a lot of factors involved in the shootings, but trying to attack ebay as though they had personally furnished Cho with his weapons is ridiculous."
Are you really arguing they didn't provide parts of the weaponry?
I compare this incident to a major failure in a factory (or even a death) - even if someone was grossly negligent, a good company will look for ways to change their processes to prevent another recurrence. Just hoping such events will go away is incompetent and lazy, but claiming such things "just happen" is resigning oneself to failure.
Should anyone be allowed to buy truckloads of fertilizer? In Oklahoma, an ID is required now for such purposes. Why? Someone blew up a building in Oklahoma with it. Does requiring an ID guarantee the problem will not recur? No. Can anything guarantee it won't happen again? No. Should we still attempt to prevent another such event? Of course. Is an ID requirement the right way to go? That can be debated, but please try to use legitimate arguments when doing so.
Now, why not try coming up with more prevention measures, rather than just shooting down ideas with fallacious arguments?
I suppose the author also blames Ryder for providing the truck used in the Oklahoma City bombing.
Don't get me wrong, I have never bought or sold anything on Ebay. But the poster is stretching so far he needs to call himself Mr. Fantastic.
So it's won this award 3 times now?
Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate headline fonts.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
The Founding Fathers were not stupid. They thought very carefully about what 10 amendments would constitute the Bill of Rights and in what order to articulate them.
... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ... " -Thomas Jefferson
... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. - Tench Coxe
The First Amendment is the most important, becuase without the right to speak freely there is no freedom. The Second Amendment supports and safeguards the first. Lose the Second Amendment and we will lose the First soon afterwards. BTW, militia != National Guard.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.
"A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate." - Thomas Jefferson
The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. - Samuel Adams
The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Benjamin Franklin
Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes; we need them every hour. - George Washington
Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. - Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times) speaking at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon, when asked by a girl how to react when a shooter takes aim at a classmate."
The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would
This is the same faulty reasoning that Handgun Controls and their ilk spread all over the news media when Florida began allowing concealed carry some years ago. They predicted a bloodbath in the streets, with gun owners shooting it out with each other, killing scores of innocent bystanders in the process.
t m
Maybe I missed the headlines, but I don't recall hearing about anything even remotely close to this happening.
In fact, after the change, crime in Florida plummeted. In contrast, after DC, England, and Australia enacted new draconian gun control, crime INCREASED.
BTW, there are recent documented cases of school shootings that were STOPPED by armed individuals. The media somehow failed to point out these facts when reporting the story.
Here's one:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.h
I used to think people who wanted to carry handguns were anti-social, lunatics. Then, I actually did my own research and looked at the FACTS, from a logical (not emotional) viewpoint. Needless to say, I am now a strong proponent of allowing responsible, law-abiding citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Would I do it myself? Probably not, but I would feel a lot safer knowing someone other than the criminals was armed.
Say it like it its, brother! Wish I had mod points today.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.