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Hilf Claims Free Software Movement Dead
moe1975 writes to mention that Bill Hilf has taken a rather aggressive stance with regard to the status of the Free Software movement. With claims like; "The Free Software movement is dead. Linux doesn't exist in 2007. Even Linus has got a job today" it would certainly seem that the next offensive is going to be sponsored by denial. "For the desktop, Hilf sees a new frontier in terms of rich client programming. With more and more services by Amazon, Google, Yahoo and, of course, Microsoft being run as services rather than as software installed locally, it will be up to the desktop to provide richer functionality."
Thank you.
I though the headline read, "MILF Claims Free Software Movement Dead."
So that's why they don't call it Ubuntu Linux anymore. Oh wait...
I posted about this yesterday. Not a lot has changed.
You could try reading the article. He's the head of Microsoft's Linux division. Which is a bit like saying that Sun's Windows division just declared Microsoft Windows irrelevant. Who cares?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
TFA claims that just because IBM and Redhat are involved in free software development, the code is somehow less free. The fact is that anyone can fork off Redhat and give away or sell support for their own distribution. In fact, this is commonly done.
is like OJ saying he didn't do it.
Someone hates these cans.
From TFA: "The Free Software movement is dead. Linux doesn't exist in 2007. Even Linus has got a job today." Controversial statements from the head of Microsoft's Linux Labs, Bill Hilf.
They purposefully left the last sentence out of the summary to drive hits. This guy's just another paid microsoft shill. Nothing to see here, move along.
The Farewell Tour II
Wow! And aren't the Japanese getting ready to migrate to this non-existant software ecosystem? How very philosophically Eastern of them! It's like some sort of crazy Zen thing!
random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
So I guess you're out of a job then, Bill?
Microsoft's "platform strategy director." Personally, I am SHOCKED that someone involved in strategy at Microsoft would want to spread a rumor that Linux and Free Software have no future, and that "Software as a Service" is where it's at.
This article does not exist in 2007.
Move right along.
FUD confusing open source with free software by unpaid programmers, making up windows server base numbers and referring to _AMP as "Visual Basic of open source" that pulled Linux along and what the programmers really want is to run their apps on Vista. Interoperability should only happen after a decade or so, because no one wants it anyway. A guy develops a 3d interface but can't figure out how that would work with Linux. Just FUD, nothing happening here folks, keep moving along.
I don't know how much you're joking, but I really didn't know who Bill Hilf was. I'll give you one guess which company he works for.
LOL
Ssshhhh. Just don't let my notebook know that linux doesn't exist on it. It works pretty well so far with making up this fantasy-OS in function. Dont wake it. Nor my PC. Nor my linux servers. Nor any of the kernel developers. Let them dream they still actually do stuff. A free OS, really :)
<on a highway>
radio: pls be aware of the one guy driving in the wrong way!
guy: one? All of them!
</on a highway>
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
This is Bill "Pay me and I'll say whatever you want" Hilf we're talking about here. The guy would say black is white and up was down if there was a buck in it.
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
He's obviously smoking the good stuff if he thinks windows runs 67% of the world's servers.
The Farewell Tour II
First they ignore you,
then they ridicule you,
then they fight you,
then they ignore you again...
Probably just some schmuck trolling for Slashdot-generated ad-dollars again.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Hax-fu?
You might even say that the Free Software Movement is in its "Last Throes".
Will the death never end?
This person at InfoWorld thinks Microsoft must really be hurting for them to be saying these things.
well, not quite. latter would be quite real and true :)
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Thanks, Slashdot, for the interpretation. Not sure I agree with it, but I'm really not quite sure what he's saying. It seems a bit of a ramble on standards and free software being commercial and various other stuff. Maybe there's a few cat anecdotes in the full transcript.
If Free Software and Linux is dead then why is Microsoft claiming that it violates 235 of their patents.
Who the hell is Bill Hilf and why should I care?
/.
Seriously. Someone give me a reason this isn't just the mass-media version of a GNAA/"BSD is dying" comment on
.sig: Now legally binding!
People aren't moving to online services. They're still moving to "free". Just happens it's online instead of locally installed. Woop-de-fucking-do.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
True. I do not believe it as long as Netcraft won't confirm it.
Hilf (Milf? hehe) seems to be saying that the idea of a community-written and developed platform is dead and points out that much Linux development is done by companies like Red Hat, Novell, and SUSE. Hilf seems to be equating free software with community software, however, free software refers to freedom, more specifically, the relatively greater amount of it in "free" software. This doesn't make Hilf's statement any less of a biased propagandistic statement, but I feel that a slight clarification is necessary as nobody RTFAs.
On a last note, although the self-organizing and self-fixing quality of open source software is more or less a myth, several projects are headed by dedicated individuals. An example is cdrtools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QDOS
But I think the gain of Linux has more to do with quality in comparison to MS/DOS and Windows.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Bill Hilf is General Manager of Platform Strategy at Microsoft. This guy:o /bio/billhilf.mspx
0 8/08/1247220&tid=109&tid=11&tid=106
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/tnradi
Slashdot interviewed him about two years ago. The first question is possibly the best.
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/
I spent like 5 minutes trying to figure out what the 'H' stood for, before reading the rest of the summary.
sic transit gloria mundi
Can we moderate this story "Troll" or "Flamebait"?
You can go Hilf yourself, over the Gratis part.
Verdict? Obfuscation, misdirection and deliberate misinformation. Linux has ad a day job since he left University.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
So, apparently, "Free Software" only exists if the people making it are unemployed?
Does this even begin to make sense?
Oh, wait, its from the "head of Microsoft's Linux Labs". Microsoft sayibng "Free Software is dead and Linux doesn't exist" isn't news, though I guess the fact that they've changed how they are saying it might be.
Having failed with the "Free Software is unreliable stuff put out by hippie slackers ideologues that have no idea how to make software usable in the real world" line, Microsoft is apparently now trying out a new line of FUD which doesn't even superficially make sense. "Big companies are involved in open source and people are getting paid, so, whatever the licensing terms say, its somehow not really free"?
So, wait..
"When I talk to open source developers, at least half are talking about Windows, from SugarCRM, MySQL, PHP. Every single one"
So which is it Bill? Half? Or Every single one?
Once again, why does anyone care what an employee of company says about a competitor?
It'd be news if he said something like "Hey, open source will eat our lunch."
If Hilf has a point it isn't a very sharp one and it is strategically poor for MS to adopt his mindset. There are no fewer hobby developers involved than there have been, and I'd not hesitate to guess that there may be more of them now than the pre-corporate Linux community offered. What I believe is misplaced is his insistence that FOSS is dead because of corporate contribution to FOSS. His argument is substantively the same as saying that because some companies contribute to charities for the poor that charity itself is dead. There are companies that actually hire people to direct charitable giving, heck even MS has Barbara Dingfield to direct their community affairs! They just don't get it. I really want to admire a company that has created more wealth than any in the history of the world but when they spout of crud like Hilf and the aforementioned 235 patents and do it without offering one single shred of evidence I just can't bring myself to do it. SC... errr Microsoft is just silly.
load "$",8,1
His statements are an amazing mix of half-truths, selective reinterpretations and marketing drivel. I don't think he says anything that is a flat out lie, but every single word is on the edge. Congratulations to Microsoft for hiring the best spin doctor in the industry?
Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
Linus has been employed for more than a decade with duties including maintaining Linux kernel development. In fact, Linus has had a Linux-related job longer than Hilf has worked for Microsoft. In the past decide, Linux doesn't seem to have lost much of its standing or popularity due to commercial participation, so it looks like that wasn't bad news.
erm, isn't he the guy that changed his name to Bill to be more like billgates?
lanc
ps: what, are they the only ones allowed to fud around?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
[Scene: A room that looks like a giant shoe box made to look like a dollhouse or a diorama (remember those from elementary school?) This whole skit is shot in black and white and has the tone of a fifties school film both in music and acting style.]
[The philosophers sit and, and drink and stroke their beards until Bruce turns to Mark.]
Bruce: Free Software is dead.
Announcer V.O.: Yes. "Free Software is dead", cried Hilf. And the cry has been heard for years. But for each philosopher, there has been a cynic. [Scott and Kevin pop out of nowhere]
Kevin: No way!
Scott: Prove it!
Announcer V.O.: And that is where the argument has stalemated... until now!
[We see a man holding a small body. Two other men stand in the back.]
Man: Free Software IS dead. And here is the body to prove it.
[The cynics appear, their hair messed]
Kevin: You've just blown my mind!
Scott: Our minds have been blown!
[We see the philosophers, looking very smug]
[A doctor examines the body and nods sadly at the camera.]
Announcer V.O.: The world is shocked. First to find out Free Software did in fact exist and second to find out it is now dead.
(paraphrased of course, thx- kids in the hall)
Ice Cream has no bones.
His logic is absurd. Assuming these web apps are standards compliant, they are the death knell of Windows hegemony. The only question is whether Microsoft can somehow manage to make their apps only work (or at least only work fully) on IE/Windows.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
How am I able to read this article? It is running LAMP.
Netcraft on bangkokpost.com
Even more strange, over 56% of the web must not exist either?
No kidding. Beryl on Linux plus any of the journaled filesystem options (Reiser, EXT3, XFS, etc.) offer for free what Windows Ultimate promised for $399 - and failed to deliver on.
Compare Microsoft's "3D desktop" to that of Beryl. Vista's 3D application switching is a joke. It's slow.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
LOL... The guys picture in the article looks like an idiot. If anyone is believing this bullshit by some Microsoft shill... I got a deed to the Atlantic Ocean I want to sell, $1 billion dollars its cheap!
Software as a Service will never become popular as long as the open source movement exists. This is why Microsoft is trying its hardest to make everyone believe its dead and doing all the sabre rattling with regards to patents.
Proprietary software has its place in the marketplace but trying to force people who are already operating under the licensing model of software to switch to Software as a Service(SaaS) scheme... Even the most financially irresponsible person can see that paying $10-20/mo over the course of your computers lifetime is more than buying a single copy at $100-120 (oh wait sorry for Vista thats like $400 for Ultimate, this in comparison to Server 2003 which is $600).
SaaS has its place as well... I mean look at all the MMO's out there, they are all basically SaaS schemes. They work because they are providing something people want (a forum for interaction with both real people as well as computer AI 'mobs' and a sense of accomplishment). Of course one could argue that the servers the thing runs on is basically a service in which case a MMO truely becomes a Service as a Service scheme where you buy subscriptions (sorta like how Linux server distros sell service contracts to come help fix things if stuff gets broken)
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
These same commercial web services will benefit GNU/Linux.
At present I am an OS X user because I am willing to pay for the high quality, hassle-free user experience Apple provides.
But already 90%+ of my computer use outside of work is of web-based. So long as GNU/Linux continues to be - and continues to improve as - a viable platform for this content, I suspect a great number of users will continue to inch nearer to being able to use GNU/Linux as their primary (and sole) system.
I'd really like to see usage statistics for the general populace: percentage breakdowns of non-business related usage categories.
My guess: email, web browsing, multimedia, games, taxes.
I'm impressed, even the open source guys at Microsoft don't get open source. Last I heard, Hilf had done a lot to promote open source principles in Redmond. Either that was bullshit, or Ballmer finally noticed and is now stuffing FUD-filled press releases into Hilf's mouth for him to dutifully regurgitate.
There is no Linux, Inc. that employs the kernel developers. If he thinks OSS is all about Apache, MySQL, and PHP, then he is inconceivably myopic.
Anyone with a brain realizes that Windows is not the ecosystem, it is part of the ecosystem. About half, by Hilf's estimation.
People don't want ODF? Who lives in Norway, Aliens?
The rest of this article is just infuriatingly contrary to the real world. If Open Source is dead, then what is MS so afraid of?
I wonder what flawed logic Bill Hilf bases his prediction on? His baseless remarks, if anything, are indicative of the fear that must be pervasive in the Microsoft culture. Linux is not the moot point that Hilf claims it is nor are the BSDs. Mostly his statement is a FUD attack that is so desperate that it is laughable. As little as five years ago, statements like these were apt to be taken more seriously. Free/Open Source Software is here to stay. Once the Samba Project completes its version 4, Microsoft Windows Server becomes the moot point because active directory features will be freely available. If Microsoft allowed some of their arrogance to deflate a little, they would consider open sourcing the active directory protocols and claim victory over Samba. By open sourcing their protocols, they tap a large and freely available programmer base. Active Directory could concievably become so much better for markedly less in terms of development costs. Why not have the community develop for you? Red Hat does just that and is a very profitable company. Instead Bill Hilf et al. remain blind to the potential benefits and see open source as a "cancer." This just might be their own undoing.
I'll skip the usual Netcraft.com joke, and just say that the Bangkok Post, which is the linked host, itself runs on Linux, according to Netcraft.
to say that crap and he's paid to harm the open source market because it threatens the Microsoft Windows monopoly.
I hope this isn't new folks because Bill Hilf went to 'the dark side' the day he signed up with Microsoft because Microsoft's only* product is Microsoft Windows and must be protected at all costs.
*)Without Microsoft Windows, none of their other products matter. None.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I suppose the chief differences are architectural. But then again, there are some pretty broad differences between various *nix architectures (Mach and Minix as opposed to Linux, for instance). These sorts of statements are supposed to show us how wise the speaker is, but to anybody with more than a surface-layer of knowledge, it's just another fartsy fool spouting crapola they likely don't understand any better than their average reader.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"We have driven the infidels from the nation...There are no enemy troops within the city...Our troops have reclaimed the airport."
Seriously, this guy is *literally* trying to claim that F/OSS is dead because it's succeeding.
Am I the only one that read the headline and said "I know what a Milf is, wtf is a Hilf?"
That which is not dead may eternal lie,and in strange aeons even death may die
"God is dead." - F.Nietzsche "F.Nietzsche is dead" - God.
I didn't recognize the name at first. Bill Hilf did a Slashdot interview a while back. He is currently Director of Platform Technology Strategy at Microsoft. Before that he was Senior Enterprise Architect at IBM.
He talks about being hired by Microsoft as an expert in Linux-based systems. Near as I can tell, he is a glorified network administrator.
As for his comments, stating that the Free Software movement is dead because Linus has a job speaks volumes about his ignorance on the topic.
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
* Linux doesn't exist because it's actually everywhere, distributed by gigantic companies which make zillions of dollars off it.
.Net in the market (this makes me wonder if Hilf, back in high school, used to grumble that "the only reason Randy the Quarterback gets laid is because he has a Mustang...").
* The Open Source Movement doesn't exist because it's been adopted by companies both large and small, which are all merrily making a profit from it.
* Because Open Source is mostly commercial and very successful, making lots of money for the large and small companies that are involved in it, the only way to "grow the ecosystem" is to switch to the Microsoft products nobody wants to buy anymore.
* Linux is only popular because it's the foundation for the LAMP web-development stack, which has been trouncing
* Because Open Source Software runs on Windows too, all those Apache guys are probably running Windows.
* Standards are a communist plot started by those hippies at IBM because darnit, they just don't like Microsoft. It's not fair (hilf makes pouty face).
* WPF-E needs a better name so everybody will want to program in it. If WPF-E gets a cool name like Flash, everybody will use it immediately.
* Because Programming is Hard and that's Just Not Cool, Microsoft wants to make it like "turning a knob" so that developers don't have to work in high-paying jobs anymore, and can go find something new to do for minimum wage that'll probably be funner.
Did I miss anything? I swear reading his comments is like being hit with one Zen Koan after another, machine gun style. What is the sound of one hand clapping?
Phew. Too much, too much. I've gotta go do something fun for a while. Hmm...
Warhammer 40K! Death to the False Emperor! C'mere, you Eldar hussy, you...
NO CARRIER
I've always considered Microsoft a dangerous beast. I mean, given their size and their success, they must have some really smart people there, no matter if their products are crap most of the time. Then this joker comes along and gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Is this what they have to offer as head of their Linux Labs? Ah, we're safe.
"[Linux developers] are full-time employees, with 401K stock options. Some work for IBM or Oracle. What does that mean? It means that Linux doesn't exist any more in 2007. There is no free software movement. If someone says Linux is about Love, Peace and Harmony, I would tell them to do their research. There is no free software movement any more."
The guy clearly hasn't understood a thing. The power of Open Source lies not in volunteers working for free (although they have been extremely important), but rather in the GPL (and other free licenses) and open standards that are ensuring the users' freedom, protecting them from vendor lock in, and giving any developer the possibility to address any problem that can be described (by users or by themselves).
He can stick his so called innovation where the sun doesn't shine. Who wants new utilities, sci-fi-esque as they may be, unless they can control what they do?
May we live long and die out
I make a point of paying no mind to insane claims.
It's not so much that in 2007, free software developers all of a sudden all got jobs, it's more that in 2007, Microsoft finally figures out that free software isn't being developed by out of work hippies.
Mr. Hilf, just keep going. At this pace, you might figure the free software movement out in, oh, perhaps by the time that your market share will have dropped into the low teens.
Saying "Linux doesn't exist anymore" is a strong statement.
And implying that "open source developers" have a "dirty little secret" is groundless and unnecessarily emotive.
I read into this that MS are worried. They are starting to see open source software as the serious threat that it has become to them.
Open source software has proven itself in the first years of the 21st century more than able to match closed source in terms of security and quality. Every day I am impressed by the countless free programs I use; Ubuntu, Firefox, VLC, VNC, GAIM, Kate, Krita, Ruby on Rails and yes, Mr Hilf, the LAMP stack.
And I sigh a little everytime I use Redmond's latest offering (which I have to keep on my laptop to use photshop and view youtube) and explorer dies or an IPC service fails, or it simply refuses to shut down, or Outlook crashes, or the sound is marred by pops and crackles because of the new improved audio subsystem.
If Microsoft with billions of dollars and thousands of dedicated programmers cannot improve upon Ubuntu, the product of - to use his words - a "small commercial firm" - I think it's pretty clear which software movement is dead.
It'll take perhaps 10 or 15 years, but the beginning of the end for Microsoft is on the horizon.
But please don't tell them.
apparently we are so far ahead that they can't even see us anymore...
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Yeah, this will really help my Mom, running over that dial-up line still to check her e-mail, browse a few web-pages, play some games, and do word processing. It will keep her off the street as the applications download.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
... generally you'll do much better by submitting idiotic inflammatory statements from __________ (I can't even think o f anything to call him) who say, e.g.
"Hilf said that the Linux phenomenon had nothing to do with Linux, but rather it had a lot to do with Apache, MySQL and PHP. It was those applications which pulled Linux up with it, the "Visual Basic of open source.""
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Just like we heard before that *BSD is dead. This "death" would explain the growth of the different Ubuntus. It also explains all of the entries in freshmeat and sourceforge. It explains the continued development of KDE, XFCE and Gnome. This guy must be the mouth piece of Ballmer.
Free Software Movement is and FSM that is dead? Well - this FSM is ALIVE
Web Sig: Eddy Currents
This one's even better:
... of half of them?
"That's the dirty little secret. When I talk to open source developers, at least half are talking about Windows, from SugarCRM, MySQL, PHP. Every single one,"
Every single one
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
So, if he is head of Microsoft's Linux division, and Linux doesn't exist, I wonder why he has not fired himself and declared himself dead?
I'm curious - does Vista really look better than enlightenment circa 1999? I know it's less functional simply by not having multiple desktops lets alone anything else.
There are a small-but-growing number of so-called "pundits" who like to make outrageous, offensive statements in what appears to be purely an attempt to drive more (outraged) traffic to their sites, in order to sell ad-space. Several of the pro-SCO "journalists" appear to fall into this camp, for example. Many people, including me, make it a point to not visit any site which is reported to be spewing this sort of stupidity, simply to deny the author/troll the extra hits. This goes beyond the usual slashdotter's reluctance to RTFM, so thank you for answering the question, and no, I will not be reading the article, now or at any time in the forseeable future. (Even though it does seem less likely than usual that this is merely another page-hit-driven troll, I don't want to give this toad even the personal satisfaction of seeing another hit on his page counter.)
A one line version of the article: "Free software doesn't exist because it is now profitable"
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi.
We have now moved from the ignore phase to the ridicule phase. Fasten your seatbelts kids, its going to get bumpy.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
OK, so programmers swarmed away from the fat client model after the DLL hell that ensued, and moved to software as a service...
And now, the natural progression is that the Desktop experience has to get richer because the software moved onto the server...
Wait, what?
Well looking here it seems like he's still able to carry on with his FOSS work. False alarm people.
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
OH FUCK! I'm using free software right now! Someone, find me a pirated copy of Vista, quick!
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I think the guy confused it with the year we are supposed to run out of IPv4 addresses.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Bill Hilf is dead. That is all.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
The only thing more depressing than a high-profile corporate exec trotting out ye olde "we're serious businessmen; those linux guys are hippies" is that -- sigh -- it's going to work at least a little bit. I still run into people who think that free software "can't work" because it requires to be superhumanly selfless.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Geeze, I just can't keep up with all these application-specific html tags! I bet that doesn't render the same on IE and Firefox...
The enemies of Democracy are
For one thing things are really moving to service-oriented operating systems and applications. I use Google docs and spreadsheets instead of OpenOffice, I use Flickr instead of iPhoto, I use Gmail instead of Kmail/Outlook/Mail.app. MS is moving to a cool new direction, I don't care what happens to the Desktop. Ubuntu is nice and all and will probably make great headway in that area. But it's a ho-hum dead-end anyway as far as my interest goes. I do all my work online (using whatever... sure Ubuntu/Gentoo then) and play my Games on Windows/Mac.
But one thing he is wrong about... is the model and principles around Free Software. I don't care if people get paid for it and if there are vested financial interests. As long as the intellectual property is free and it's free as in speech. I want to see real innovation and am happy MS is also forced into that direction by 'Free Software'.
And he looks silly!
Microsoft is desperate, really desperate. They see the writing on the wall, and they know their empire is about to collapse.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
You could try reading the article.
You must be new here; welcome to Slashdot.
These aren't the distributions you're looking for.
Registered Linux User #449434
... here's even more Bill Hilf bullshit:
0 8/08/1247220&tid=109&tid=11&tid=106
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
Bill, Stop spreading FUD. It's not efficient. Why do you insist? From the halloween documents days, you acknowledged that FUD tactics can't stop open source. Why do you insist in making a fool out of yourself in the eyes of every decent person? You're worse than a politician.
Second
How did you come up with "67 percent of the world's servers run windows"? Bill, that environment of 2 windows servers and 1 linux box you play with at Microsoft doesn't make up for the whole world.
Third:
When I talk to open source developers, at least half are talking about Windows, from SugarCRM, MySQL, PHP. Every single one,"
Half of them or every single one? Make up your mind. Again, those 3,4 open source programmers don't make up for the whole community.
Fourth:
Patents man. You forgot to mention that you are truly worried that Linux users break microsoft's intelectual property. You made upper management unhappy here. Would you like a cut of 10% from your next salary or a chair?
We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us
Ironically Mr. "Microsoft platform strategy director" got his linux-is-dead propaganda posted on a linux* hosted server. Oops. (* assumption based on "ssh www.bangkokpost.com" being friendly)
First line is enough: "Linux doesn't exist in 2007. Even Linus has got a job today." Controversial statements from the head of Microsoft's Linux Labs...
What is the sound of a bluescreen crashing alone while everybody uses Linux instead ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Are you from Lanys by any chance?
"Those statements are full of half-truths and misinformation..."
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Just ignore him and he will go away...
Uhm... hasn't he always had a job?
Sounds like this Hilf guy is trying to imply that Linux has lost so much momentum that Linus had to go out and get a job.
That's some of the biggest bullshitting I've ever heard.
1. Attack competing operating systems. 2. ??? 3. Profit!!
Hilf has just taken some (not enough) lessons on spin from the other Bill, but I still have never found anyone that can beat Gates--in any industry. Take his anti-trust deposition for example--a performance to make your skin crawl!
...Free Software movement claims bill hilf is dead. say hello to nietzche for us.
free software, open standards, open file formats, no software patents.
Articles like this put slashdot up there in the 'digg.com' category of 'useless misinformation distribution' web sites, imho.
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
Who the hell is Bill Hilf, and what kind of drugs is he smoking? TFAs in the Bangkok Post, if that's any hint. Oh, Bill Hilf? Some kind of nutter I'd guess (if the quites are accurate).
... it just smells funny.
His comments show that Microsoft obviously still does not understand the FOSS movement. Microsoft lacks the framework to understand what it is about. Microsoft is all about putting competitors out of business, not delivering high-quality software. As such, Microsoft will never understand FOSS.
That Vista is selling like American flags in Baghdad.
Sure Linux is dead, if all you want to do is display cute icons and fiddle with your desktop... If you wanna actually use your computer, or many computers together... however, it's still the cheapest way to connect and build a compute farm... or automate a data network, etc... and licensing doesn't cost 100K a pop like Oracle... --Ray
http://www.beanleafpress.com
Sounds like this is another attack in Microsoft's current anti-Linux campaign. They're getting desparate.
Microsoft has huge problems, and they know it. They have perhaps 85% of all PC users using their operating system, but they also have 100% of the non-sophisticated users, who don't care/know about the OS and are just happy to continue using whatever was on it when they took it over from their son/daughter/neighbor. Who will never upgrade, and who will keep the computer until it clogs up in dust and goes up in flames.
The techies use Linux or Mac OSX, and this is where innovation is taking place these days.
A customer enters a pet shop.
Mr. Hilf: 'Ello, I wish to complain about this Free Software parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Finnish Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
Mr. Hilf: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
(Parrot squawks noisily and flaps about)
Owner: Looks fine to me.
Mr. Hilf: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
(The parrot is attempting to move but seems to be having some trouble. It squawks loudly).
Owner: Are you sure he's not just pining for the fjords?
Mr. Hilf: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?
(Owner inspects parrot closely. Looks up incredulously, then takes another look before raising his head again)
Owner: It looks like someone nailed him there! Look. (Owner removes the nail, and the parrot flaps about)..
Mr. Hilf: Well, erm.... of course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and started eating into our market share!
Owner: I thought you said 'e was dead?
Mr. Hilf: Ermm....... 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a..... OOOOUCH! Little bastard bit my finger.
Owner: I'd say that clearly proves your Finnish Free Software parrot isn't dead.
Mr. Hilf: Well, can I stick a nail through its head just to be sure?
Owner: Get out of my shop before I call animal protection, you sick bastard!
Mr. Hilf: This is the worst bastardisation of a Monty Python sketch I've ever been in. I never wanted to be this creepy Microsoft shill you know... I wanted to be a lumberja...
Owner: Get out!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
... concerns over the 235 patents of theirs they claim Linux infringes?
Or maybe they are pretending Linux doesn't exist today so tomorrow when they recognize that it does they can claim all of Linux is infringing their patents... ya know a prior art thing.
What does that even mean? I'm sorry, "intelligent" people make sense. Someone needs to run this guy's quotes through bullfighter to make sense out of them.
The part that's even funnier to me is that he is southeast Asia, which of course is the Windoze piracy capital of the world. What, would he rather everyone there use pwned copies of teh Windoze? And what's next on his agenda? Moscow? Nigeria?
blah blah blah
you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.
The man is bullshitting and we all know it. It's the exact opposite. After 3 years of Mac OS X, I've taken a night off today and upgraded my 3,5 year old Debian Woody System (mostly used as a server since my iBook purchase) to the brand new Kubuntu 7. I'm using it just now writing this post. I'm so over-f*cking-welmed that I'm actually considering to drop my next memory-pimped Mac Mini purchase I had planned and moving back to a price-performant Laptop Linux again. It's been by far my easiest OS install ever. Even the Tiger upgrade didn't go that smooth. I'm listening to a demo-track from the MagnaTune.com shop integrated into KDEs Amorok audio player as I'm writing this. The last Amorok I saw was pointless - now it's right up there with iTunes and yet better - and with more features.It has been for the last 3 years that a well configured KDE was easier and faster to use than OS X - it's now that it nearly needs no configuration (not with Kubuntu anyway) to kick every other setup I know up and down the street usability wise. Why anyone would even consider Vista after seeing this is totally beyond me.
It's this stuff that scares MS big time. Linux & OSS are continuously moving forward into MS territory and when they've reached the watershed of critical mass and the people get to notice the huge differences in quality and usability there will be no way to stop them and MS knows it. That's why it's spreading FUDaganda on OSS more and more often these days. This steaming heap of BS is no different.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I have short stories and essays I created using Microsoft Word 10-15 years ago that I can't open with Word today. None of these used any fancier formatting than double spacing and varying font sizes. That is why standards are important. We can't apparently expect Microsoft to keep the formats backwards compatible, so it is up to us as consumers to seek standards that will ensure that the information we create today will be just as accessible tomorrow.
IANAL... But I play one on
I heard a similar story a while ago, about a guy in Spain who caused a lot of controversy for teaching men how to beat their wives so that they would have no signs of abuse...
"Listen, new M$ trainee, here's the deal, you monopolize, but back out when the feds are coming. Got it? Oh, and no pulling off moves that might give us bad publicity. Bring out the cushions now..."
Give Kashyyyk back to the Wookies
This article has everything. Microsoft coming to the realization, in 2007 mind you, that OMGWEB2.0!1!!1 is important, and somehow connecting that to the end of big fat Linux. Of course, this trend will have no effect on the sleek, lightweight, new paradigm, thinking-out-of the-box Vista.
Maybe the US patent office will issue Microsoft a patent on their new ideas about "rich client programming", and in 5 or 6 years the general public will believe that Microsoft "invented" something.
FAQs are evil.
Oh my god is dead!
MVS is certainly different from Unix, but I wouldn't immediately say it is "more different" than Windows.
Ditto to all of that! Also it seems that Bill has been spending too much time with his closed minded eerr I mean closed source buddies. It seems he forgot that Yahoo runs BSD and now according to reports a lot more GNU+Linux as well as most Internet sites. Google Maps for one requires that all content resellers run Red Hat Linux. Yeah FOSS is dead that makes sense to me.
Those that do not know, pay for it.
That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.
But, of course, I kid.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Your mind tricks will not work on me young jedi, wraw haw haw haw!
-2B
Weird--I keep hearing this voice saying, "I'm not dead yet!"
Gifts for Geeks
BerliOS Statistics
Hosted Projects: 4,996
Registered Users: 31,434 'Nuff said.
I think he's talking about Web services (UDDI, SOAP, WSDL etc...) and not just simple web apps. What experience has taught one to expect Microsoft to do in situations like this is to ensure that their own development toolkits for developing web service clients are fully compatible only with services that are developed with Microsoft tools and systems and deployed on Microsoft platforms. The traditional way they have done this is by leveraging their dominant position to embrace, extend and eventually appropriate (or alternatively, destroy) standards and protocols like UDDI, SOAP, WSDL etc... When developing web services, especially if you are using automated "turn knob" development tools like the ones this dude talks about that don't require you to understand the underlying technologies, it's really easy to get into a situation where any Microsoft-only proprietary extensions to web service standards result in you creating a web service that's only 100% compatible with Microsoft's products. Furthermore, becasue you have no cule about how UDDI, SOAP, WSDL etc.. work, all you can say when a Java developer using JAXWS, Axis2 or XFire complans that these Microsoft-only proprietery extensions are giving him a migrane is: "Well... uh... that Sun/Java based crap you are using must be broken. It all works perfectly with
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
But never thought I'd get modded up.
Actually my plan B was a mock headline: "Open Source Hacker Claims Microsoft Dead."
Oh wait. We claim that every week...
you had me at #!
He makes it out like anyone who uses a linux os aspires to be some radical whose out to free the masses from the evils of capitalism (ok, so maybe there are some who fit that bill). I use various linux distros and I recommend open solutions to clients when I think it is the best option for getting a job done. I also want to make a buck (actually, lots of them). I don't find these these two things to be in conflict.
It's sad that Hilf has to resort to meaningless rhetoric in his attempt to ease his fear about the threat of competition. I would say, in fact, that linux is alive and growing for the very reasons that Hilf claims it's death. That people are making livings using an open model suggests to me that it is indeed a viable alternative to more traditional ways of competing in the industry.
"So, if he is head of Microsoft's Linux division, and Linux doesn't exist, I wonder why he has not fired himself and declared himself dead?"
Dude! The guy has a nice thing going! If I could get some mega corp to pay good money me to head up their Pangean Exploration Division, I might consider it for a while before turning it down.
all the best,
drew
FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
When the patent story broke, the line was (paraphrasing),
...um. Yeah, that would be it.
"Microsoft says open source software is of high quality because they're using 200 of our patents."
[Head explodes.]
you had me at #!
Meanwhile I guess someone should tell IBM's that it's profitable linux business doesn't exist anymore, all that money they're rolling in: utter fantasy.
I can imagine how the conversation would go:
Guy on Microsoft payroll: Hey have you heard the news? Free software is dead! It's not making us money, so it must be dead. I sent you an email about it yesterday!!
IBM (while lighting a cigarette with a $100 bill): I think my spam guard ate it. We don't use outlook here.. so rubbish like that doesn't get through.
This seemed like a strange non-sequitur to me, until I figured it out:
Hilf thinks that the "Free" in "Free Software" means zero price.
He must have figured that since Linus wasn't getting any income from "free (as in beer) software", he was forced to go out and get a job to make money.
That's the only possible way to make any sense out of his "job" comment.
His misunderstanding of what "Free" means clearly demonstrates that he doesn't even possess a rudimentary understanding of the FOSS community.
I think this is the first thread on /. where A) the term Free Software is used interchangebly with OSS and B) there aren't dozens of people correcting this. I've read a lot from Bill and seen him speak before, and from what I see he is *very* passionate about OSS.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Prediction: "*BSD Is Dead" turns into "Linux Is Dead"
That said, I think that *BSD might be the better operating system at the moment. I'm still not convinced of the merits of a monolithic kernel. Microkernels have worked very well for OS X, and even NT on the desktop and server levels. Even slashdot hosts itself on BSD.
Of course, what we (still) need is a good desktop UI environment. We've made so much progess in all the other areas, and absolutely none in this regard.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Oh noes! A troll posted my email address unscrambled! OMG, OMG, OMG! Not like I've never done that before. Oh, look! I can even link to it too!
You, my good friend, are just one in a long line of trolls who've pestered me. Here's a hint, though: Don't enemy me just before you decide to go on a trolling spree. It kind of gives away who you are.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
"Hilf accused his former employers, IBM, of starting a standards war simply because they wanted a part of the Office market. People do not want ODF (Open Document Format), but they want a way to control the information they create, he claimed."
He lied.
Ever since the early 90s when someone handed me a floppy disk with a document on it and said, "Do you have WordPerfect" [Word, or whatever it was].
"No."
"Well, you have to buy this program if you want to be able to read this document."
"That's stupid."
"You're out of touch, it's the way software works. You need to buy the program to read the documents."
Well, it's still stupid. I can't control my document if all I bought was Office 97 and people are handing me Office 2003 documents. It didn't have to be "odt", MS could have helped develop a better standard, but they chose not too. A private comany's product never has been, and never will be, a good choice for a standard format.
...who the hell is Bill Hilf?
If he'd have tried to argue that Vista is better than Linux or whatever he might have had a small chance to get the least technically knowledgeable people to believe him, but arguing that 'Linux is dead' just shouts that he's so badly-informed or so strongly biassed that no-one could take him seriously.
Hile is a wonderful fornicating prevaricator of wet-dreams.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Just because these technologies are supporting people who happen to use Windows doesn't mean that Linux is any less of a viable solution. In fact, I think it makes the FOSS movement that much stronger. It's not just on Linux, it's also on Windows, Unix, etc.
Hmm then what was CD pack that i just got from canotical in the mail Saturday? Or when i installed ESX a few days ago, i guess i was dreaming.
Besides, even if linux WAS dead, opensource is much larger then one single 'kernel'. You have all the applications, other OS's ( FreeBSD for example ), utilities, development lanugages/tools..
Or is this guy just an idiot?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They really used to be kings of FUD but this is laughable, at best. If it wasn't Microsoft, one could almost feel sorry.
They actually prove the point that MS never, ever invented anything and that huge ecconomical success was just due to a ride on top of monopoly wave. That doesn't cut it anymore - Apple and Free Software community are making supperior products already. Windows is in such a mess that MS is not able to make any real improvements without breaking everything and basically starting from scratch. This is the reason to sing 'software as a service' song - Windows is dead and their desktop market share will start shrinking soon. It is 90%+, so yes - wiles, l take some time but they are in trouble.
Oh, Hilf - yes, we still exist. We are here!
"There are a small-but-growing number of so-called "pundits" who like to make outrageous, offensive statements"
There has never been outage of so-called "pundits" who like to make outrageous, offensive statements.
It's only that every day that passes Cowboy Neal et al. are more shameless about moving to frontpage marketroid outrageous and nonsensical "news" to inflate their pockets through marketing income.
Nietzsche: God is Dead. Microsoft shill: Linux is dead
God: Nietzsche is dead. Major corporations, desktop users in the millions, governments: Windows is killing us, now they are dead
Too lazy to create a sig...
So if you profit from FOSS, it isn't "open source" anymore? If dozens of vendors are supporting and contributing to Linux, and thousands of people are making money off of it, Linux doesn't exist anymore? Microsoft really should stop hiring retards.
It must be over... How can the Linux world possibly stand a chance against the "I'm not listening!" argument?
-proidiot
Hilf said that the Linux phenomenon had nothing to do with Linux, but rather it had a lot to do with Apache, MySQL and PHP. It was those applications which pulled Linux up with it, the "Visual Basic of open source." - Ok which one of these dont also run on Windows, OS X and the BSDs?
"That's the dirty little secret. When I talk to open source developers, at least half are talking about Windows, from SugarCRM, MySQL, PHP. Every single one," he said. - Im pretty sure every single one is more than 50% and if Microsoft didnt embrace and extend everything that touched their OS it would probably be more than 50% - and they do it because these developers are often practical, pragmatic and really concerned with delivering solutions to admins and end-users, of course they are talking Windows.
"Standards is the first thing you go to in the competitive strategy playbook. Of course, IBM and Sun won't say that on the record. You create a problem that didn't exist and use standards to force a problem," he said. - Well then lets just throw the Windows standards for drivers, apps and the like out the window (no pun intended) shall we? Oh wait - you wont deliver products or certify them if they dont meet your standards. Who is this joker and do they really pay him to say this?
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
Web 2.0 is great for collaboration. It's great when you want to share data.
I have a lot of data that I don't want to share.
I'm never going to replace my local computer with a "web desktop" unless it's incredibly secure and requires that my personal physical key is inserted into whatever access terminal I'm using.
But I'm fine if Microsoft and Yahoo and Google want to try to pursue that route - go ahead and waste money and pretend Linux doesn't exist, and I'll keep working with my free operating system and making it better than your privacy-violating nonsensical "all your data belong to us" strategy.
then why doesn't MS just sack Hilf. Obviously he's unneeded now.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
I was thinking that it was going to take a little while for the proprietary software silos to collapse under their own contradictions and costs but it looks like the patent decision by the Supreme Court is making it less tenable to sustain software as a business without actually making it useful or serviceable.
Sun has changed its approach and is innovating and opening up and becoming service oriented.
Microsoft, not so much.
The end for proprietary software may come faster than we imagined.
I doubt "ignorant" is actually accurate. The guy came from IBM, and he probably knows his shit.
/. reader stating the obvious, since he probably doesn't care what most of us say even if it isn't obvious.
His job, however, is to make MSFT look good and everyone else look bad. He is very well paid for this service. he's probably also not terribly concerned about some
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Who The Fuck is Bill Hilf and why do we care what he says?
.NET developer by day and I've never heard this guys name until now.
Hell, I'm even an MSDN card carrying
Who cares...
Be sure to post your comments on Bill Hilf's blog here.
Qoute from the article...
9 291
"They are full-time employees, with 401K stock options. Some work for IBM or Oracle. What does that mean? It means that Linux doesn't exist any more in 2007. There is no free software movement. If someone says Linux is about Love, Peace and Harmony, I would tell them to do their research. There is no free software movement any more. There is big commercial [firms]"
apparently he didnt read about this dude (the webcam driver guy - recent slashdot post)
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=3
There are firms, there are unpaid hackers, there are Summer of Code students - Linux and Free Software are Booming in 2007 !
I think that's just Hilf's way of saying, "I just don't get this Linux thing...so rather than admit this, I'll just fantasize this shortcoming into oblivion by trying to convince everyone that there wasn't anything worth knowing in the first place!"
Well, it's a Microsoft statement. I can see that being a statement that will make their new "partner" Novell very happy. Thespian, happy now?
I've worked with Open Source, Free Software, freeware, shareware as well as proprietary for as long as I've been using computers.
They all have their place, rule #1 is that It Has To Work For Me. From a risk management point of view Anything But Microsoft seems to become more and more THE rule to prevent slow recovery and exposure to malware, not to mention the improved costs basis..
Panic, methinks..
Insert
... we can see you, and it's not going to do Linux any bad or you any good all this way-too-ridicolous FUD.
I'm not much of a linux evangelist (i prefer XP as my OS of choice...but then my linux experience is next to nil and I don't have a spare machine to learn on), but I heard this exact thing in interviews with two Microsoft shops where I had applied for employment. "Linux is dying. Linux will be dead. We don't offer it to our customers because you can't buy support for it."
It was all garbage, and I had a hard time not laughing during the interviews.
My Sysadmin Blog
Parrot (the free software) does seem to be dead... Wasn't it supposed to be the vm capable of running Python and Perl bytecode?
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
I just misread it as "Bill... who?"
I'm getting tired of worthless stories getting approved by whatever monkey is editing for this site.
Just because he makes arrogant claims that no one believes, doesn't mean you need to repeat this crap. No one believes him, no one cares what he says.
You are spreading it around by posting the story here, Stop It.
Ahahahaa, you made my day you did, thank you!
No, the money is real. Isn't that the ultimate business model, getting tons of money for something that doesn't even exist?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
At least partly. The fantasy that many people, both in the popular press and here on /., suffer under, namely that free software is developed by a bunch of unpaid amateurs, is no longer true, and probably never was. Apparently Hilf believes it once was true.
Of course, there are probably more students and amateurs working on free software as ever before, but the large impact free software project is mainly being developed by full time professionals.
Free software has become a mean of collaboration between commercial entities, still with some participation from students and hobbyists.
Interestingly, the GPL -- so often accused of being anti-commercial -- has been a great enabler of the commercial involvement. It creates a level playing field by making it difficult for any one player to keep their own improvement away from the others. While such proprietary branches are often fine with the hobbyists and students, they are devastating for the remaining commercial players. An example is WINE, which went from a BSD'ish license to LGPL, when one commercial WINE developer decided to keep their improvement proprietary. This was of course totally unacceptable to the remaining companies based on the WINE code, hence the license change and resulting code fork.
*COUGH* bullshit *COUGH*
Check your facts, try a decent distro (Kubuntu, openSUSE), watch it roll. You're talking about Linux eight years ago or vanilla *BSD for a desktop PC now.
Free beer is never free as in speech. Free speech is always free as in beer.
He'd be the best spin doctor in the industry if he could say "Linux doesn't exist" and then make people believe it; if he just fails at it, however, he's actually closer to the worst spin doctor in the industry (after all, what good is a spin doctor whose claims are so outlandish that nobody takes them serious)? Anyone who's heard of Linux at all will know that it isn't true. Heck, everyone (every CEO, manager, venture capitalist etc.) who opens an IT newspaper will see headlines like "Microsoft claims Linux infringes on 2108964 of its patents", "Microsoft struck a deal with Novell, makers of SuSE Linux" and so on. To think that anyone will believe that Linux doesn't exist is absurd, and every manager who reads this will take everything this guy says with a big grain of salt after that first claim is already not only obviously untrue but so ridiculous that you can't help but shake your head and wonder what crack he's been smoking.
butter the donkey
Although I congratulate Microsoft for catching up with the IT bubble business model as you see below:
1. Threaten IP lawsuit
2. ??
3. Profit!
Think with a little effort they might get past the year 2000 in their business practices and actually start offering something new that people want.
Well, I'll be smacked for this, but I don't believe Linux is dead unless Netcraft confirms it :)
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I know you made a type there :) I myself have no sense of English language, and I somehow am able to do it... but "Gadhi" in Hindi means female Equus asinus.
Neglecting an enemy is a well proving strategy *that does not work*, but maybe he only pretends? Sounds exactly like the strategy of a former Iraqi Information Minister, and look how that went.
If MS really want to neglect (it's most potent?) enemy, let them do just that. Fine by me!
The sooner I can exchange Win XP and the even worse Vista, the better.
"Sun revolves around earth"
"World sits on top of a tortoise"
"Earth is flat"
"John F Kennedy is alive"
"Elvis is alive"
"Marilyn Monroe lives with Elvis in Guatemala"
Read radical news here
is how he attempts to underhandedly (by using a straw man - how pathetic) equate FOSS to the old hippie movement by saying that "If someone says Linux is about Love, Peace and Harmony, I would tell them to do their research." (as if FOSS ever HAD BEEN about "Love, Peace and Harmony" in the first place) in an attempt to place that impression (that of a movement which many believe failed in its goals) on the minds of those susceptible to emotional-message-is-enough-no-effort-at-thought tactics (most business types, whom MSFT targets as potential clients) . . . this leads me to conclude that he is being trained and coached within MSFT as - judging from the writing on his blog - he is most certainly not smart enough to concoct FUD of that magnitude on his own. Evidence of MSFTs desperation.
I find it interesting that he would make these statements in Asia. This is apparently a desperate grasping-at-straws attempt by MSFT to turn the tide, so to speak, in the Asian market, because I doubt that they thought this would not travel the planet, or that they were using Asia as an FUD testbed. Further evidence of MSFT's desperation.
I think it is likely that they will now attempt to accuse the journalist of misquoting Mr. Hilf, who should - by the way - be remembered for saying these things, after the long FUD campaign fails and MSFT spits him out.
This all makes me very happy. Fuck MSFT and all they stand for.
SARAVA!
Is this a journalists technique they teach at college?
Maybe in 'how to write controversial articles 101'?
Take anything popular and write that "it's dead" and you've got instant front page stuff?
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
most of the comments posted so far are stupid, at best /.ers who can't see the forest for the trees.
like all the comments about "half the programmers....every single one" clearly, he meant every one of the half; his grammar may not be the best, but calling him on it is nitpicking at best - typ[ical
HIs basic point is pretty clear: most of "open source" is funded by companies, not by people working for free.
Now you can argue if this is correct, but to distort his argument is stupid.
He probably does understand but I reckon he is betting on the fact that a lot of the people he is trying to sell to don't.
If Microsoft can even further confuse people (who already associate "free" with cost) then the task of selling them ever restrictive licences becomes simpler as they opt for the path of least resistance.
You're correct in that it's about freedom but getting it for free is not even a fringe benefit - it's unrelated. The purchase price has nothing to do with the licence (when we are talking about Free Software that is). It's this misconception that Hilf is targetting and trying to embrace and extend
All this talk of software as a service being the future is really depressing. It's just a dumb idea for so many reasons, like:
1) Bandwidth limitations for the average Internet user.
2) Internet outages.
3) Software as a service will end up being sold to you with a monthly/yearly subscription fee instead of a one time payment - this will balloon really quickly = $$$.
4) Single point of failure.
5) You have to trust a company with your data and with providing the software you need reliably and without changing it out from under you.
6) Forced version upgrades (can you imagine if all WinXP users were automatically upgraded to Vista with no say in the matter?
7) Not everyone has Internet or has access to the Internet. What if I take my laptop on the road?
8) If your OS is an online service... then the vendor can lock out other programs they don't want you to run. You won't be able to work around this.
9) Your ISP can charge you more since you now NEED Internet so much more.
10) Did I mention privacy? Because no big IT company has ever had data stolen... ha.
I started using the google desktop widgets thing and it started automatically scanning and indexing my computer. I thought that was a good idea for about 2 seconds then un-installed it really quick. It's going to be much more lucrative to be a hacker in the future. You thought having your credit card data stolen really sucks... try having your entire hard drive, plus records of every action you ever did on your computer and every file you had in the past. Sheesh. I can only pray that this concept doesn't fly. GoogleDocs is bad enough - what a stupid idea- at least for any documents that have any value at all.
Yeah, I'm one person rooting against desktop software going online.
This is Linux anti-marketing by a classic Microsoft tactic
of feeding and creating confusion about any functionality that
they can't compete with. In this case
they are cultivating the confusion about the meaning of free software.
With articles like this Microsoft takes control of the dictionary and
changes the discussion to something self serving and otherwise
irrelevant.
Confusing the use of names and concepts and capturing common
words as a deliberate marketing strategy runs deep at Microsoft. The most basic
example is using the word "windows" as a proprietary product name.
A more involved effort is the effort to destroy the distinction
between file formats, applications, and operating systems.
This generates marketing FUD in that many people
feel that in order to be able to work with
others they have to use Microsoft applicaitons on Microsoft machines.
LOL, you sound like an idiot.
What are you basing that non sequitur on?
are we wasting time on this Minion of Microsoft. If OS/Linux is dead, why is M$ saber-rattling (or, should I say, patent rattling)?
Typical M$ FUD. Nothing to see. Move along, citizen.
"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
Generally when someone goes about telling *you* what your problems and intentions are, he is in some scence engaged in what the Freudians call a sever case of projection. So lets take a look at some of Hilfs utterances.
'If someone says Linux is about Love, Peace and Harmony, I would tell them to do their research. There is no free software movement any more'
Just who exactly in Open Source are you referring to to here. Who is this 'someone' who says this. All you are doing here is invoking the strawman. The last resort of the Usenet troll. Shame on you Mr. Hilf. An insulting and total distorting of the situation. Linux/Open Source is about collaboration and not being controlled by any one company.
That you have to invoke some distorted hippy fud here tell us more about you than Open Source or the people involved in it. As someone who has personally met some of the leading developers in Open Source I can categorically state that I never once seen anyone wearing Jesus sandles or beads. Maybe you are confusing us with some of billgs retreats.
"People ask me, why are you doing this? Why did you do the Novell deal? Why aren't you doing Office on Linux? The summary is quite simple. Growth of the ecosystem equals growth of the [Windows] platform"
Here's a question, why are you using the Novell deal to extort money out of the Open Source community. The real reason you don't do Office on Linux is that your whole monopoly would collapse. Ain't that so.
"When I talk to open source developers, at least half are talking about Windows, from SugarCRM, MySQL, PHP. Every single one"
Keep desperatly talking about Open Source on Windows. What developers and can we have their names? Which half of every single one is 'talking about Windows'. And Bill, you being highely 'technical' what is the point of running LAMP on Windows?
'there's this complex balance between innovation and standardisation. I think the EU has been learning'
Here we have a presumably fine one time Open Source advocate reduced to shilling for the Microsoft organization. In short nothing but an intellectual prostitute. The EU issue is about MS polluting the protocols in order to shut out Open Source. As one of your researchers once put it by extending these protocols you can deny OSS projects entry into the market.
'People do not want ODF (Open Document Format), but they want a way to control the information they create'
Yet again we have MS chief FUD architect telling us what we want. What people don't want ODF and can we have their names? If MS was really innovati~1 why do you need to control the formats and protocols and threaten people with litigation if they don't use your product~1.
"Standards is the first thing you go to in the competitive strategy playbook"
I've noticed a curious thing in other utterances out of Redmond. Whilst accusing others of doing something nefarious they are in actuality projecting their own twisted strategies and prejudices onto the other fella. I suppose only in the distorted and rarefied athmosphere of the Linux Lab could you come up with twisting standards as a legitimate strategy to compete. Meaning making our stuff not work with the other fellas.
Now considering what MS is actually doing rather than saying what do you suppose MS real strategy is in relation to 'standards'? In this case MS is indeed going about subverting standards to leverage its own proprietary product. So the above sentence should be rewritten as 'subverting standards is the first thing you go to in the competitive strategy playbook'.
'Today, Microsoft seems to be nibbling away at the same market as Flash through Vista's Windows Presentation Format-Extended (WPF-E). Hilf said that was defnitely not anti-competitive and it was simply compet
davecb5620@gmail.com
1. Make ridiculous claim that will outrage the target audience. For IT: "Bill Gates declared sex god." "Natalie Portman declared 'not hot.'" "International Federation of Scientists declares Linux the OS for 'fags'"
2. Watch traffic increase from the inevitable flamewar, generating lots of impressions for the ads
3. Profit!
Where's my money?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
He gets Linux. He was hired as a Linux expert, to lie about it. I know we shouldn't ascribe to malice what can be blamed on stupidity, but this guy isn't stupid and Microsoft is about as malicious as they come.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I guess they figured that the "God is dead" campaign was such a massive success... same old same old... If wishes were wings, we'd be flying, Bill.
Jedis are stupid. If they were so powerful, why couldn't they handle counseling for a kid who missed his mom?
The point about people wanting to integrate w/ Windows has some merit. He was talking about Open Source software wanting to get onto the Windows platform. If they want it to run on the largest possible user base then yes, those developers need to have a Windows version. I love Konqueror and I use it at home, but I can't get it on Windows at work. That greatly limits the number of systems I can run it on.
.NET for work, but do some Perl and PHP for myself. It's true that the P* languages can scale and are usable at the enterprise level, but there's no way you can compare an interpreted scripting language like Perl to .NET. .NET is a mature architecture I can develop against using different languages whereas Perl is a flexible language w/o being part of a whole architecture. Granted, Perl integrates well with Linux and is strongly suited to that task, but it is not part of an ecosystem the way you'd combine the .NET libraries w/ C# w/ the Windows OS. As a developer, I'd like to have the entire ecosystem integrated so there's more standardization and control.
.NET, but I wish I could do it on the Linux OS. Figure that one out and you can be rich.
I don't think that precludes developers from developing on Linux, it just means that some of them want to integrate with Windows. This is partly because Microsoft develops closed platforms that make it difficult. MS won't integrate with Linux, so Linux has to integrate with MS (for those that want it).
As for calling PHP and Perl the "Visual Basic" of Linux, I think there's some merit. I write mainly in
Like a lot of people, I love to work in Visual Studio and develop in C# using
1. Firefox
2. The Gimp
3. Pidgin
4. Ubuntu
5. Thunderbird
6. Wine
7. Summer of Code
8. Open Office
9. UbuntuStudio
10. KDE, Gnome
11. Beryl/Compiz
12. 7zip
13. Sourceforge
14. Linux
15. OpenMoko
FOSS is definitely dead and dying. I can't see anything on that list that would disprove that. LOL
Idiots.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Them's fightin' words! *goes to grab pitchfork, torch*
Does Netcraft confirm this?
How ya like dat?
It is!
You should see my PCLinuxOS 2007 desktop running Beryl!
Oh, I keep XP around in a guest OS cage, sort of like a picture on a wall. The bugger was given to stealing a lot, and bribing officials to get out of trouble. Simply incorrigible. Now I hear he has taken to acting like a bully, threatening his even his friends and neighbors. Honestly, I'm not surprised, considering how he likes to throw chairs around and choke off "air supplies". He's really violent, and needs psychiatric help.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
He didn't say Linux was dead. He said the free software movement was dead.
And he's right, if you don't think that most of the work done on the kernel is bought and paid for by commercial entitites, you're just burying your head in the sand. LWN did a story on it.
I realise you're taking a "fuck you, RMS/FSF" stance, and not speaking out of ignorance, but you picked a poor argument to use.
Debian nearly always refer to their distribution as "Debian GNU/Linux". And guess what distribution Ubuntu is based on?
Probably a new feature of MVS. I'm pretty sure that, 25 years ago, catalogs had at most 5 levels. Next thing you know, Windows will have multi-tasking and memory protection!
Free Software Movement Claims Hilf Dead
Let's call it a tie. ;-)