Slashdot Mirror
Germany Declares Hacking Tools Illegal
dubbelj writes "Germany has updated their computer crime law to declare 'hacking tools' illegal. This will place most of the professionals in the network admin and computer security fields in a sort of legal grey area. 'The new rules tighten up the existing sanctions and prohibit any unauthorized user from disabling or circumventing computer security measures to access secure data (see the law, sections 200 and following [in German]). Manufacturing, programming, installing, or spreading software that can circumvent security measures is verboten, which means that some security scanning tools might become illegal.' We discussed a similar measure in January when Australia considered the same kind of legislation. How will this affect Linux distribution in Germany, as most standard Linux distributions come with these kind of 'hacking tools' installed by default?"
ping - a hacker tool used for detecting computers connected to the internet for the purpose of breaking in to them
Great! Well, problem solved. We can all stop patching our servers and running firewalls now! Yippee!! :D
German is going to be even harder to read without space bars.
Default and why is he installing hacking tools in Linux distro's ?
On a serious note doesn't this basically make watching dvds on a linux computer illegal as well ? Sounds to me like this can be wide open for abuse much like our beloved DMCA.
Can't RTFA since the laws are in German.
This package Does Not Contain a Winner
How are hacking tools really different from locksmith's tools?
;)
I certainly have found a locksmith to be very useful in very legal ways - but then again, I'm the kind of person who has key problems
Read my Very Short "Stories"
...when will they start requiring computer professionals to have to become licensed by the govt in order to to possess and use the tools necessary for them to do their jobs?
can be used as a tool to 'hack', are they going to outlaw computers too?
A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
Prohibition of computer safety tools opens Bundestrojaner door and gate
May 25, 2007 (46halbe)
The Bundestag has today the prohibition of computer safety tools invariably durchgewunken (criminal law law of change for the fight of the computer criminality, more again 202 StGB). To be punished is in particular a manufacturing, a programming, a leaving, a spreading or providing software, which is urgently necessary for the daily work of network administrators and safety experts.
The Bundestag has today the prohibition of computer safety tools invariably durchgewunken (criminal law law of change for the fight of the computer criminality, more again 202 StGB). To be punished is in particular a manufacturing, a programming, a leaving, a spreading or providing software, which is urgently necessary for the daily work of network administrators and safety experts.
With it the delegates acted against the express advice of the experts belonged in the committees with the consultation of the law out of science and practice. Also on the part of the InterNet economy and from the Upper House of Parliament the law change had been criticized sharply. With exception of the Party of Democratic Socialism and a lonely SPD delegate now the completely large coalition that votierte notion lots to make Germany the professional disqualification zone for computer safety experts.
By expressed far version law becomes possession, which production and the spreading of preventive tools, with which security can be examined by computers, in Germany punishable. These tools are however essential, in order to ensure the security from computer systems to. The general prohibition of this software is to be forbidden about as helpfully as the production and the sales of hammers, because sometimes thereby also damages are accomplished.
Andy Mueller Maguhn, speaker of the chaos computer club, commentated: "the prohibition of the possession of computer safety tools opens also for the employment of the Bundestrojaners door and gate industry and citizen systematically the possibility is taken of examining their systems adequately for security. This prohibition endangers the security of the IT location Germany."
As the automobile industry, is examined in the computer industry the system security makes its vehicles with Crashtests safer by the controlled employment by attack programs. It will be legally no longer free of doubts possible in the future for sensitive computer systems will test whether they are safe or not.
On the yearly congress of the federal office for security in the information technology (BSI) Minister of the Interior Schaeuble announced planned certifying "more trustworthily" to Sicherheitsdienstleister. With this step obviously the abilities and the knowledge, which are necessary for effective safety examinations of computer systems, are into which hands by yard suppliers handread out by the government are monopolized, while the independent computer safety research can be kriminalisiert as desired selectively.
CCC speaker Mueller Maguhn in addition: "the explanations of the Minister of the Interior for computer security are pure lip-service. Here systematically the legal and organizational framework is created, in order to make citizens and enterprises defenseless opposite computer attacks, restaurant economics and also the Bundestrojaner. Safety research can take place only in an unacceptable legal gray area."
davecb@spamcop.net
You can use a browser to hack poorely written web apps (some forum software springs to mind). Doesn't this effectively make all browsers illegal?
Laws like these never seem to do more than frustrate "normal" users while the people it is designed to inhibit find a way around it and continue on their merry way, or as just another charge to tack on when one of these people actually gets caught.
nyaaaaaaaa
So how they are going to distinguish hacking tools from security software? Nmap can be used as both, and I sincerely cannot imagine securing anything without it. Next, packet loggers. Will Ethereal be banned too? It's one of the best tools IMO that gives a user the power to see exactly what he is sending or receiving, showing potential problems and vurnabilities, but it, of course, can be also exploited beyond any limits. And it's the case with all the rest of popular networking software.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
If "hacking tools" are outlawed, only outlaws will have "hacking tools."
As with firearms, it's the shooter that commits a murder, not the gun. In this case, it's hackers that commit hacking, not the tool. And just as with guns, when they outlaw hacking tools, only outlaws will have them, and the new laws will just annoy the shit out of legit users.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I imagine the list of tools useful only to hackers is pretty short. And I imagine that german hackers will find ways to use "legit" software to their ends.
On another note, expect little in the way of secure software innovation out of Germany in the next few years.
We are all just people.
This sounds like banning guns in a hypothetical country where there's a lot of gun violence, and people commonly wear bulletproof vests. (Note the "hypothetical" here; this is just for the sake of argument.) Suddenly, a new law banning guns is passed, and the vest-making companies can't develop new vests because they have no way of testing them.
Brilliant.
Another parallel: this is like making it illegal to wreck a car, whether by accident or intentionally. With a law like this, cars can't be crash-tested, and auto crash safety research comes to a stop.
Of course, in the real world, computer simulations can be used to get around these problems. But with this new real-world law, the simulations themselves are illegal!
I wonder if this will make Cain & Abel illegal in Germany...? This software is an extremely useful "multi-tool" for any network/server administrator, and I've been using it for years to recover lost passwords, evaluate security, etc. but I imagine it is used constantly to assist with people's [sic?] questionable hacking activities.
Of course, being in Canada, these blanket-like laws won't have any jurisdiction here, but I still wonder about what kind of effect this is going to have on sysadmins in Germany. Pretty messed up. We've all heard the horror stories of technically-challenged judges not understanding the key concepts behind potentially grey-area situations (using someone's open WiFi network, for example).
at least, any language with a networking library?
Add netcat to that as well. It's not a programming language but it's Frickin' useful for network processes.
netcat + bzip2 + dd combine to make my favorite backup tool...
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
Sure, some people think he sounds paranoid...but he's right. It'll take time for things to get really bad...but they will get there, slowly.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Booting into root without a password seems like it fits their definition of a hacking tool. Can't use the Apple or 's' keys anymore!
This is going to stop a lot of software companies from opening up German software houses. Just trying to maintain any computer network for regular developers would probably be illegal under these rules, because a lot of network maintanence tools could be considered "hacking tools" under this definition. Without those tools, it would be prohibitive to try to support an enterprise infrastructure.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
Hmm, to stay legal, someone will have to pull the plug on Germany.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
So are debuggers illegal now? How about compilers? Logic analysers? I'm pretty sure Germany has extradition treaties with USA/Canada/the rest of Europe. Does that make most of us criminals?
:-)
What about debugging by printf or cout?
Pretty soon we'll have to be licensed members of the programmers guild. Please line up to pee in the cup and be fingerprinted for your mandatory background check. (oh, and your papers please) (does that count as a Godwin when we're talking about the Germans?
Ian Ameline
are also hacking tools. Are they banned now?
Sorry, somebody posted this two minutes beore you did. You will now get modded to -1 for redundancy. Kiss your karma goodbye.
There's no such thing as "hacking tools". Imagine a law banning "murder tools", guns, sharp instruments, blunt instruments, pillows...
Germans should ask the government for compensation when their networks are hacked as a result of an ambiguous law that prohibits the very tools required to perform a security audit. Actually it's not fair taxpayers have to carry the can, those who draft such stupidity should be directly liable.
Where was the German IT industry when this law was being written?
http://www.police-information.co.uk/legislation/le gislationindexeng.html#G
It's the intent which matters. Doesn't matter what the tool is.
Deleted
+5 Funny
When you outlaw hacking tools, only outlaws will have hacking tools.
Brains are the best hacking tools of them all, and the only ones necessary--anything else can be rebuilt from scratch, or worked around. (Though it would take a while, in some cases.)
So they've outlawed brains.
Brilliant. =)
GCC? Excel macros? using Word to create cross-site-scripting-attack webpages? Just using IE with ActiveX enabled?
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
let me tell you whats gonna happen - they are going to take back that law. thats whats going to happen.
ALL lawmakers and judiciaries should be OBLIGED to take courses in I.T. before ever attempting to do anything about it.
Read radical news here
That's humorous (in a scary way) considering the following:
... eFishSkinSales.com that sells fish skins... I find a German counterpart GermanFishSkin.com... I take their IP addressing and spoof a pingflood to my routers and send German authorities the logfiles. Would they know what a spoof is for one. How about the following... A German websurfer visits my page and does not close his browser. For the next nMinutes where n equals the amount of time he has his browser on my page, he will make repeated GET's thus resulting in a DoS attack of the lamest kind. What then. Are browsers hacking tools?
The commission communication "towards a general policy on the fight against cyber crime"
There is no agreed definition of "cyber crime". From a strictly legal point of view, it can be questioned whether there is any need for the term at all - it could be argued that "cyber space" is just a new specific instrument used to commit crimes which are not new at all. The term may thus be most interesting from an operational point of view, i.e. the operational instruments and procedures to fight against this type of crime must be developed.
With that said, as an American, I can almost indicate any connection to me as being an illegal one and cost the German taxpayers a bucketload of money with false claims. Let's consider the following scenario.. Ping. Simple administrative tool, can also be used for DoS attacks. Suppose I start a business
Let's take it a step further into XSS (cross site scripting)... The browser IS THE TOOL. Should all browsers be banned now. Oh those Germans. I know... What about a German, with a shell on a server in America developing tools. Now those tools don't reside ANYWHERE in Germany then what. I would have laughed that law all the way to the bitbucket. But... You're likely dealing with e-Incompetent lawmakers driving Beamers and Benz' who care little about the advances in LIFE as a whole thanks to computing both good and bad (malicious hacking has forced companies to improve themselves).
Infiltrated dot Net
What are all the script kiddies going to do now? For the love of god, won't somebody think of the children?
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
IMHO, IANAL, TINLA, etc...
Don't worry, VB is still legal.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
But as the technically educated know, many tools that can be useful for diagnostics, troubleshooting, performance optimization, and usage monitoring can also be used for hacking. This, like many laws, will likely be arbitrarily enforced based on criteria not specified in the law.
Knives are tools that can be used to stab people, but we do not make them illegal. If we *did* make them illegal (defining the item as "tools that can be used to stab people") then in actual practice the law will only be used to increase the charges already leveled against someone, or to target someone who has otherwise broken no law but is doing something of which the powers-that-be disapprove (such as...i dunno...criticizing this or that government official or policy).
Just make sure the evil bit is unset on your "hacking tools", and they'll be hunky-dory.
--
make install -not war
That post in and of itself was redundant ! That has been posted many times before ;)
This package Does Not Contain a Winner
Cool. Germany just made computer security illegal. The real question is what will their next step be? Will they realize their mistake and revoke the law? Or, once no one can scan their own network for security breaches, will they make it worse and start outlawing software like netcat?
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Well anyway, I am not going to phreak out about hacker tool being illegal. Funny part: For the foreseeable future, any nation without citizens having, using, and learning hacker/cracker/phreaker/... tools (with hands-on experience) is defenseless in case of war/threat. Nations will need as many phreaked crackers, cracked phreakers, 31337 draftees/recruits as they can find (including the wheelchair, gay, and grandma ones).
... to PGP, RMON, Tripwire, C++ compilers ... eventually all technology will be confiscated and most people will be in jail where they belong. Yes, the Germany government of the EU is proving to be as bright as the government of Mississippi in the USA.
In a MAD dash governments globally will make all "Hacker Tools" illegal. Zoll Gestapo will be contracted and trained by the US Government, then deployed to Russia, China, USA, France, Canada... All heidi-holes, small/large dark crevices, and generally anything that can be screwed will be looked into.
"Hacker Tools" from telnet, ping, TFTP
Luddites love politics; because they are not required to know or do, anything right, and are paid anyway. Politics has become a form of welfare for the wealthy incompetent of the US, EU, Iran, Saudi, Russia, China, Egypt, India, Sudan, Mexico.... Politicians in any country are a pitiable basket of low intelligence, corrupt ethics, and fetid morals.
US, EU, and many others are in troubled/stupid times.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
I mean...so much of "hacking" involves gathering information...and lately some of the best information is off of the google and etc...
I am usually quite wary when it comes to prediction, unless I can be fairly certain that I'm right. So let's take a look at the not so far future...
"Hacking" tools are outlawed. Now, "hacking" tools usually work two ways, like pretty much everything on the internet (that's another thing our legislator just don't seem to get), i.e. they can be used to find security holes in networks.
In other words, it's now illegal in Germany to test your network against security holes.
This, in turn, means that, no matter what kind of guru you may be in the field of network security, you will sooner or later leave a hole open (or, like in my case, ignore yet another bullshit law, but let's assume you actually still care about the manure that house creates).
A criminal, with criminal intentions (hence the name) doesn't care about the law either. He has those tools, that's a given. He will find the security hole you didn't find. And there he goes and grabs your last year's research.
Now, this isn't something most companies really like. They tend to keep their research under cover 'til they can patent it. They'll be royally pissed, I tell you that. And they'll realize that:
a) Germany is insecure
b) Wages in Germany are still pretty high when compared to, say, Poland.
c) Poland is now also a member of the EU.
And you can wave another "invention company" good bye. Not necessarily without their skilled staff, the Germans are already pretty mobile when it comes to working (no kidding, look around Germany and you'll see a lot of "foreign workers", Germans working in Austria, the Netherlands, France...).
Taxes, of course, will be paid to Poland.
Well, every country has the government it deserves. But even Germany hasn't deserved to suffer this badly.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
To criminalize so-called hackers.
/. echo chamber, no one will do anything but whine and go back to their work/entertainment.
0 6/murphy200706?printable=true¤tPage=all
Most policy wonks that deal with this sector have already spread the word that computers are dangerous tools in the wrong hands. So, step 1 is to make the tools illegal. For example, "Your honor we found hacking applications wireshark installed on the defendants computer." No questions about approved uses are allowed because that makes things too complicated.
Don't bother with legal challenges, the objective is to make computers a content delivery device. Anything else is too threatening to governments, regardless of their borders.
Best case scenario as other posts have pointed out, the government gives out licenses that allow you to use/own "hacking" software. In the U.S., probably a process similar to getting a clearance would be required. This is happening internationally.
Since this is the
Required reading for Americans unhappy with their political process: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Good luck with virus, with no cracking/reverse engineering tools theres no way to get rid of them, and yes, virus have protection measures.
Even programs that contain keyboard loggers have their uses. Most automated software testing tools use keyboard logging as part of the testing process. Viruses have their uses, as well. On a limited network, I have heard of admins using viruses that are "mutated" so they install patches without any user intervention.
If a hacker is using these tools for illegal purposes, what is this law going to do. They are already acting in illegal activities, so what.. now they have illigeal software. This will just limit what software admins are going to be able to use to test their security. IMHO.
This is just the usual running in place that politicians do so that they can say they've done something. I'm sad to see that it is the case in Germany, just as the US. In the end, this law will do nothing to stop the real criminals and be a potential pain for the professionals charged with thwarting said real criminals. h4x0r ftw!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
We should just make everything illegal. That way, when the government figures out that someone is a bad person, they will have a whole list of things to charge them with. What could possiblie go wrong?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Digital Rights Management (ahem, excuse me, "Digital Consumer Enablement") technologies can be used to obtain private information from my system, to prevent certain parts of my system from functioning, and to install unwanted and potentially malicious executable code on my system, all without my knowledge or consent.
Sounds to me like DRM "can be used for hacking," and is therefore now illegal in Germany.
Keep leading the way, Germany!
So does that mean the camp this summer is also an illegal thing? WTF>?
...only hackers will have hacking tools.
Hey.. I'm the governor of Mississippi, you insensitive clod.
Just read through most of the >0 posts. Admitted I read fast but usually it doesn't take much effort to pick out the posts that explain precisely how this was caused by the US. I assume it was; practically anything that lands on the evil side of the TruthDot ledger is satisfactorily explained by some US policy. Lemme go back and read so more...
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
I'll give you a certain way to tell a hacking tool apart from a security tool, after you show me the same for a power tool and a potential murder weapon.
$_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
Would something like ping, ethereal/wireshark, etc be considered hacking tools? Or are they more concerned with programs such as "Double Click here to launch attack on Windows Box, prebuilt hacking packages. Not really sure what hackers use, but as a system admin I hope the others aren't.
"Gentlemen, you're everything we've come to expect from years of government training." MIB
This is the kind of legislation causes more harm than good. Because of the overwhelmingly large volume of software that falls into the "grey" area here, this sets a dangerous precedent for the abuse, i.e., misapplication of the law against legitimate users of security/communications software.
My university(in America) has the same rule for any computer connected to there network. I have always had etherape, ethereal, nmap, tcpdump, etc on my computers since I do computer repair. I decided to leave them on and just never tell anyone. Once I got a job in the CS department I noticed everyone had the same tools and really no one cared. Germany will probably do the same thing, no one will care about you having "hacking tools" until they really want you to go away, then you'll be charged for every program that can do anything that would manipulate data. Anyway shouldn't they have made cracking tools illegal?
It is VERY usefull for many legit things. Not even security related
things. But it also has features that might raise eyebrows and even
NortonAv defines it as a hacking tool.
While I can replace the functionality easily (and have), it is great
to have it everywhere in case I need it. Its there, it works, and its
easy to type.
Does this trend mean that we will have to have -sanitized- versions
of popular tools like nc?
In my opinion any software that can communicate with anything else then it self can be considered a "hacking tool" when used in a way as such. When connecting to an FTP, typing the wrong password. Is that a hacking tool? Many FTP software keeps trying even if the login attempt failed. Maybe Windows and its talkative SMB protocol may be considered a hacking tool as the built in authorization mechanism by default attempts to login to resources using "the current users credentials" before asking the user.
I expect some harsh response from all those companies that manage network security for german government. This law equates to outlawing screwdrivers for electricians.
Lets just hope they have a good set of bollocks to send an adequate response to the german government.
When will politicians ever learn? sigh...
Uhhhh, troll much?
Like getting a hunting license or a license to carry a firearm, maybe there should be a license to hack.
Just a thought.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Back in the 90's when I was working at Data General I was on a team of people who were reading the source code to every function in the C library, operating system and utilities. For each function we wrote a document saying roughly "Here's what the function does, here are any potential side effects, here is the source code we used to make sure the function didn't break or compromise security in interesting ways." Data General was a pretty small company and yet they managed to find the resources to do this. I'm sure Microsoft or Intel would have no problem assembling a team that could do this. This would improve security of systems worldwide a lot more than some foolhardy attempt to prevent a set of applications from being developed.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Yeah, Heidi is such a slut.
Prohibition of computer safety tools opens door and gate for Federal trojans*.
May 25, 2007 (46halbe)
The Bundestag has today waved through, unchanged, a ban again computer safety tools (Bill for the change of Criminal law in order to fight computer criminality, new 202 StGB). Chiefly targeted is the manufacturing, programming, leaving (for someone), distribution, or procurement of software, which is urgently necessary for the daily work of network administrators and safety experts.
With this decision the delegates acted against the express advice given by experts from research and business to the committees consulting on the proposal. The law was also sharply criticised by the Internet economy sector and the Upper House of Parliament. With exception of the Party of Democratic Socialism and a lonely SPD delegate, the complete Great Coalition of the Clueless now voted to make Germany a professional disqualification zone for computer safety experts.
Through the markedly broad scope of the law, the possession, production and distribution of preventive tools with which to examine computer security will become punishable in Germany. These tools are, however, essential in order to ensure the security of computer systems. Banning this software is about as helpful as banning the production and the sales of hammers because sometimes these are also used to cause damages.
Andy Mueller-Maguhn, speaker of the Chaos Computer Club, commented: "banning the possession of computer safety tools leaves the door wide open for the use of Federal Trojans. Industry and citizens are systematically being robbed of the possibility of examining their systems adequately for security. This prohibition endangers the security of the German IT sector."
As the automobile industry makes its vehicles safer with crash tests, so does the computer industry test its system security through the controlled employment of attack programs. It will in future no longer be possible be to test sensitive computer systems for security in ways that are without a doubt legal.
At the yearly congress of the Federal Office for Security in the Information Technology (BSI), Minister of the Interior Schaeuble announced plans to certify "trustworthy" security providers. With this step, the abilities and knowledge necessary for effective safety examinations of computer systems shall apparently be monopolised by handpicked government suppliers, while the independent computer safety research can be selectively criminalised as desired.
CCC speaker Mueller-Maguhn added: "the explanations of the Minister of the Interior for computer security are pure lip-service. A legal and organizational framework is being systematically created here in order to make citizens and enterprises defenseless against computer attacks, industrial espionage and also Federal trojans. Safety research can take place only in an unacceptable legal gray area."
*N.B. "Bundestrojaner", which I've translated as Federal Trojans, are the programs the police/gov't use to search through people's computers remotely (newly legalised, or given greater scope, I believe)
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
Another opportunity to bring up my favorite old, "New York State Thruway" analogy.
Back in the days of uniform 55MpH, that was the speed limit on the New York State Thruway, as well. But the mean speed on the road was somewhere between 65 and 70Mph, so in essence, everyone was breaking the law. Had you obeyed the law and driven 55MpH, everyone would need to change lanes to the bottleneck to traffic you'd become. In this environment the police could stop pretty much *anyone* and know that they were at least speeding. With nearly everyone potentially a lawbreaker, they could institute whatever criteria they chose for stopping someone.
I have no indication that this ever happened, or that there was ever any "selective law enforcement."
But the situation was ripe for abuse.
Now apply the situation to "hacker tools", leaving the definition sufficiently nebulous. They potentially have the tools to haul almost any sophisticated computer user into court, at will. Remember, Al Capone was put behind bars for income tax evasion, not bootlegging, mob hits, or anything like that. Crack any DVDs lately? Used libdvdcss to watch a DVD under Linux? If you're also running Linux, how many of those "standards" could also be taken as "hacking tools?"
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I use both ethereal and nmap multiple times a week to help debug problems. I also use lots of trace programs for the same thing. I'm not checking for security, nor trying to hack myself...I'm trying to debug a problem. Yet, the tools are the same.
"new rules tighten up the existing sanctions and prohibit any unauthorized user from disabling or circumventing computer security measures to access secure data" Data is not secure if the hacking tool was able to access it, thus the law doesn't apply.
TOP DSLR Cameras Reviews of the top DSLRs
This would be a drastic measure, but it might make a point. Somehow I would guess though that the judge would rule that people have to pay a fine instead of going to prison.
e rkriminalit%E4t.pdf
;)
The link to the law StGB shows only the old version without the new paragraph 202.
Besides,in it you can find the following line:
Ausfertigungsdatum: 15.05.1871
Which must mean something like issue date 15.05.1871, now that is incremental change!
I just found the paragraph here: http://www.kes.info/archiv/online/06-6-006.htm
Seems like it took until May the 25th (since 2006) to get it signed.
Paragraph 202c says:
(1) Wer eine Straftat nach 202a oder 202b vorbereitet, indem er
1. Passworte oder sonstige Sicherungscodes, die den Zugang zu Daten ( 202a
Abs. 2) ermöglichen, oder
2. Computerprogramme, deren Zweck die Begehung einer solchen Tat ist,
herstellt, sich oder einem anderen verschafft, verkauft, einem anderen überlässt, ver-
breitet oder sonst zugänglich macht, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit
Geldstrafe bestraft.
In English that means that if you prepare a criminal offense according 202a/b through
1.) providing passwords
2.) providing software to achieve the above mentioned criminal offence
you will go to prison for a year or pay a fine.
The article mentioned above explains that security companies should still be able to write
tools to test their systems since the criminal offense wasn't planned even though it was on peoples minds that the tool might be used for that.
Damn this sounds bad, I agree with the CCC now that this is a gray area. This would require some mind reading capabilities I guess.
The other two paragraphs address gathering and collection of data which is not meant for you or protected from you in some way.
The pdf file for the change proposal can be found here:
http://www.bmj.bund.de/files/-/1317/RegE%20Comput
BTW, I'm not a lawyer. This might also explain my bad english, how could one possibly translate between German and English legalese anyway
Je me souviens.
I now looked at the linked law text, and couldn't find anything about tools. Am I just blind? Or maybe the newest change isn't yet displayed?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
You can have my nmap when you pry my cold, dead hands from the keyboard.
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
"Programmers still needed debugging tools, of course, but debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers. The debugger Dan used in software class was kept behind a special firewall so that it could be used only for class exercises."
-- Richard Stallman, The Right to Read
Since you can't hack a computer without another computer except if you're on-site, Isn't a computer a "hacking tool?" Doesn't that make computers illegal in germany?
And doesn't this make the floppy and the CD, which can bypass security, illegal? Of course, without a computer what good is a floppy?
And since you can use an axe, screwdriver, hammer, etc to break into a building with a computer, doesn't that make carpenters' tools illegal as well?
You Germans are fuX0red!
I'm glad we're not the only nation with clueless fucktards running things! There is hope for USA after all!
-mcgrew
(OT but that capcha is fucking EVIL. It's "rations" but in the context presented here it looks like "nations", especially where the extra lines are drawn. In short, it is easier for a bot to read than for a human, as bots don't have contextual limitations!)
http://www.bmj.bund.de/media/archive/1317.pdf
And the relevant words in english (my translation)
German penal code section 202c
Whosoever prepares a felony according to section 202a or section 202b by
Note: sections 202a and 202b are both about gaining access to data meant for somebody else.
- hexdump
- objdump (especially with the -d option)
- gdb
- gas
- gcc
- emacs (or vi or even ex)
- dd
- ps
- Rubber hose (for defeating strong crypto)
Oddly enough all those tools have legitimate uses -- even uses that Authority would consider legitimate. How are people going to water their gardens without a rubber hose?... would it not be more effective to outlaw hackable systems?
For example, it could be forbidden to put a system on the internet that is vulnerable to hijacking. Anyone with a trojaned PC could be made to pay a fine and mandatorily follow a course in system administration.
This would quickly end the SPAM problem (or at least the SPAM-via-trojaned-PC problem).
As other slashdotters have noted, outlawing hacking tools is way too broad a definition such as to make enforcement virtually impossible. Most system admins would be facing incarceration. That would make things like tcpdump, dig, etc. illegal to possess or use. I guess this is the result of having a politician claiming to know everything about hacking without doing the research. Imagine life without your "troubleshooting" tools. I like the idea of outlawing harmful viri and malware (those caught doing this should rightfully face punitive measures), but if you take away my troubleshooting tools, what am I to do when things go wrong? Should I shrug my shoulders and throw up my hands? Hopefully this law will be found null and void due to overbreadth.
Someone had to say it...
Sigs are awesome huh?
Well the Bundesrat could veto the law. If they do not the law could go live in about 3-6 weeks..
Bunch of Nazis
Wait, it's far more common for carefully written apps to hack IE than the reverse !
It is illegal in many places to carry "burglar's tools". Yes, there is no difference between a burglar's tools and common household tools. However, when a person is caught in the act of breaking into some place, it can [almost always] be reasonably inferred that the tools used to break in meet the definition of "burglar's tools."
Such a prohibition can be a valuable mechanism to invoke penalties against people who engage in criminal behavior but get caught before completing the act. So even though the potential victim has no loss, the perpetrator is still guilty of a crime, which in this case would be possession of burglar's tools.
LOL!
Yes, keep thinking inside the box.
BM
another case of idiots making decisions for the not idiots! This disproves darwinian evolution maybe... haha unless its currently better to be an idiot to survive.
Balderdash!
What am I gonna do without ping? or Angry IP scanner?
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
I have i knife! :(
:(
Now i have a gun!
But i don't like guns!
Now i will go to jail?
Who will feed me?
Where's my mom? Jail too?
CLOSE ALL ARMS COMPANY! THAT'S WHAT WE NEED!
STOP THE WAR!
and of course Scottish*, (but legally Bavarian) I do hope you will continue to post material like this that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of
eatingbraveheartwatchinga yingo typefulfilling.
A) The Germans.
B) The German political system
C) The German Psyche.
D) That anyone who was 20 in 1945 is 82 this year.
and
E) Todays Germans are a composite of changes in the population that occurred after WWII (ie they're different!)
Slight Technical Aside
The change to the law is pretty much the same as the Scottish Crime (readers who don't think Scotland is a country with a separate legal system should stop reading at this point.) of "going equipped to commit a theft or housebreaking" The article in German is just a scrape of The Register and other pages and the Babelfish rip is typical of the gobblydegook that is internet translatation.
Google always translates Ich weiss (I know) as I white, which is sub-Noam-Chomsky-stupid.
German is a language that lends itself not to dumb dictionary look up programs. The word compile for example never comes out as 'list' in a dictionary - apart from the larger Duden English/Deutsch. Usually it is 'collect together' and sorgen (to worry) becomes 'ensure' although in print dictionaries it is usually translated hilariously as 'solicitious' which when used in an essay on Digital Media is just too funny for words.
So keep up the good work because for me it means:
A) Going snowboarding for 18 Euros instead of going to the pub on Friday night for 60 Euros plus hangover because the alps are on my doorstep.
B) Wine for 1.49 a bottle (Euro/Dollar about the same, dude.)
C) More holidays than you can poke with a stick
D) Working half the hours I did back in Bonnie Scotland.
E) A country full of beautiful people, almost every single one of whom is liberal (see if Google can translate that.)
F) I get to be that British guy who explains why the USA is not the Great Satan and what 'Dude', 'Geek' or 'excellent' means.
Just as long as you keep scaring away all the English speaking part of the world.
Cheers!
*Kiltwearingpennypinching
haggisbashingporridge
worldcuplosingbagpipepl
harddrinking buckfastloving
snpvotingballotpaperspoilingstere
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
"If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve" Jello Biaffra
Arguing by analogy is like making bad things go away by closing your eyes.
(yes, I know I just made an argument by analogy to demonstrate the invalidity of argument by analogy. That was on purpose.)
Oh and if we make child porn illegal, then only criminals will have child porn.
I personally see that whole issue as irrelevant. The sweeping statement "any program that could be used for hacking" is just too broad to be useful, though the people making that statement probably don't realize this.
A lot of concepts in the computer/information domain simply don't map well to concepts in the solid-objects/material-world domain, and mismapping them causes a whole lot of bad litigation, bad business decisions, injustice, and needless suffering.
Without many tools which can easily be used to hack the modern Internet as we know it won't work. An IT pro can't get their work done without tools so its either auf Wiedersehen to the law or the IT industry. Sounds like the problem we have in America... the people trying to administer laws to this 'intraweb' just don't know what they're doing...And its also similar to gun control... and locks... and...YOU'RE ONLY HURTING THE INNOCENT PEOPLE! (Oh, so the style attribute doesn't work on /....)
Has anybody pointed out yet this law is still just a draft and not through yet? Germany has not declared hacking tools illegal and according to the harsh and devastating critics of germany's IT industry on this law it probably never will. Bye.
It seems that the prime function of legislative bodies is to generate well-intentioned but ill-conceived responses to the latest moral panic. Undoubtedly some fraction of the developer community will want to engage in 'hacktivism', but for most life and work must still go on. Competent developers know how to work around legislative obstruction and still do business: a jurisdiction configuration that specifies whether each of the system's jurisdiction-sensitive features are permitted, limited, and/or forbidden.
...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
"First they came for the Ethereal, but I did not use Ethereal, so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Portscan, but I did not use Portscan, so I did nothing.
Then came the Firefox, but I can live without a browser.
And then they came for the Computer, but I was fine with a caculator.
Then when they came for me, there was no one left who could stand up for me."
As has yours, and mine also I suppose.
Drats, whats my compliant again?
'Germany now run by fascist nutjobs with no grasp of reality'. That hasn't been news since 1933!
FGD 135
that they outlawed Sony CDs there........
Meanwhile in the US, CyberWATCH (funded by the National Science Foundation I think) is desperately encouraging students to explore computer security because they want more hackers in the working class. There's too many hackers in the asshole class and we need someone sitting on our networks, in our banks, in our schools, protecting us from these people. Germany may think they can just take our toys away, but here we realize the only people who are gonna give them up are the ones that are gonna save our asses.
CyberWATCH is awesome too because they sponsor the mid-atlantic regional collegiate cyberdefense competition, which is sweet. This involves a lot of hacking and a lot of defending against hacking (us doing the defending, while some volunteer red cell does the hacking). Students experience something very few people get to experience... (and we love it).
Support my political activism on Patreon.
There are 2 possibilities.
1. The lawmakers mean well, but don't understand the technology or the implications of this law.
2. They are deliberately transferring power from the Judicial Branch to the Executive Branch in order to appear "tough" on crime. When it's impractical to enforce a law that is broken by many people, the Executive Branch doesn't enforce it, unless they need an excuse to bust someone they don't like, or to search someone they're suspicious of. This gap between what is commonly enforced and what CAN be enforced, I like to call "The Facade of Law" as opposed to "The Rule of Law".
As long as the masses believe they are safe and the system is just, they won't riot/revolt. "Justice" is just an illusion to provide political and economic stability to a group of social (and hence moral) animals. (In my opinion)
I see 2 possibilities:
1. The lawmakers mean well, but don't understand the technology or the implications of this law.
2. They are deliberately transferring power from the Judicial Branch to the Executive Branch in order to appear "tough" on crime. When it's impractical to enforce a law that is broken by many people, the Executive Branch doesn't enforce it, unless they need an excuse to bust someone they don't like, or to search someone they're suspicious of. This gap between what is commonly enforced and what CAN be enforced, I like to call "The Facade of Law" as opposed to "The Rule of Law".
As long as the masses believe they are safe and the system is just, they won't riot/revolt. "Justice" is just an illusion to provide political and economic stability to a group of social (and hence moral) animals. (In my opinion)
There's a brilliant plan here:
A great way to enhance German-US relations! And German-Chinese relations, and German-Russian relations, and German-French relations... Danke, Frau Merkel! That was your most brilliant idea so far.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
A man who owned a vintage still as a museum piece was arrested and charged with "moonshining", or distilling illegal alcohol. Even though the man protested that he never used the still and in fact studied it for academic reasons did not dissuade the judge who found him guilty ". . . since he had the equipment." Based on this logic, the man was also found guilty of rape.
'hacking tools' we should also keep in mind are not like physical commodities. This is what FSF has been on about since the beginning. What halfway serious german hacker is going to absolutely *need* to download tools? Not many, how hard is it to write your basic brute force password cracker for instance? Not that difficult.
So with no (necessary) download records (p.s. if that seems unreasonable, wiping the history is usually within reach, lol), that means that to convict someone, the tools would have to be found on storage media that they own. Now lets say that I have a simple php script to brute force a password. One text file. Now imagine that it has permissions set so you must be root to read it. If I happen to have 'forgotten' the root password to the machine, in order to convict me, you would have to hack my root account... without (necessarily) having any evidence to warrant a warrant.
Basically, if a judge cannot be convinced that it is reasonable to suspect you as an teh_uber_hacker, you cannot be legally caught!
Censorship is the opposite of education. If neo-darwinism were defensible, people would not need to try and censor ID.
I agree with your reasoning, but I am a delusional paranoid, and as always ... entertained by a little humor.
THANKS
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
...blocking all of its access ports, including Port 80. Germany should thus ban the internet and everyone's computer in Germany will be secure. Of course, the people will riot and Germany will be left behind, but hey, it's secure! =D
Any tool, or component thereof that could be used in the act of breaking a law shall be illegal.
Guns, therefore, shall be illegal.
The barrel of a gun, which is in essence a straight pipe, shall be illegal.
The internet, which is made of tubes (another kind of pipe) shall be illegal.
Once nobody has any network connected computers, there will be no computer crime.
Germany has nailed this one.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
This is precisely the mindset that many amateur scientists/hobbiests thought about home chemistry kits and supplies before it became illegal to buy or possess an Erlenmeyer flask or organic solvents or reagents, because now if you are not a licensed chemist, or an authorized employee of a chemical company that is licensed, or a senior-enough member of an institute of higher learning that is licensed, you cannot buy most chemistry supplies, else you are automatically guilty of committing drug crimes.
In Canada you can't posess a slimjim (device for popping the lock on a car door - not the greasy pseudo-meat snack product) ... unless you are a licensed locksmith, tow-truck operator, or similar.
It's just a harmless thin piece of metal with a knotch in it.
But walk down the street with a set of them and you could be picked up for possessing tools that can be used to commit a crime.
So what's the big deal over hacker tools?
I think its the perpetual problem of people who wouldnt dream of breaking into a car and stealing it, that somehow manage to simutaneously think that its perfectly fine to hack into whatever the hell they want.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
At least there'll be plenty of work securing publicly exposed German networks from outside of Germany. I wonder if they thought of that.......
I don't therefore I'm not.
so long as they don't float the laws this way I crack and rip forensic data for litigants. I would need to find a new job
As we all know, the definition of Politicks is quite straight forward. It's a mangling of different languages and words.
Poly from the Greek 'multiple'
Tick from the little bloodsucking insect.
So Politicks are Multiple Bloodsucking Insects. See! There. Inrefutable proof.
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
Instead of getting all worked up and randomly speculating and inventing what law prohibits, how about actually reading the text of the law??
e rkriminalit%E4t.pdf
First, it's not about "sections 200 and following" (section 200 is followed by a break, and a new block, the one that concerns protection of privacy, begins with section 201). More specific, it's really only about changing 202a and adding 202b and 202c.
The proposal that now became law, together with detailed explanations, can be found on this official government site:
http://www.bmj.bund.de/files/-/1317/RegE%20Comput
The only controversial one of the additions is the second number under 202c:
(1) Wer eine Straftat nach 202a oder 202b vorbereitet, indem er
1. Passworte oder sonstige Sicherungscodes, die den Zugang zu Daten ( 202a Abs. 2) ermöglichen, oder
2. Computerprogramme, deren Zweck die Begehung einer solchen Tat ist,
[herstellt, sich oder einem anderen verschafft, verkauft, einem anderen überlässt, verbreitet oder sonst zugänglich macht,]
wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.
Translated:
(1) The person who prepares an offence according to 202a or 202b by
[creating, procuring for himself or someone else, selling, leaving to someone, disseminating or make accessible by other means,]
1. Passwords or other security codes, which allow the access to data ( 202a Abs. 2), or
2. Computer programs, whose purpose is the commiting of such an offence,
will be punished by a term of imprisonment of up to one year or a fine.
So what's said in the article ("Manufacturing, programming, installing, or spreading software that
can circumvent security measures is verboten) is wrong. Only "Computer programs, whose *purpose*
is the commiting of such an offence" are forbidden. Computer programs which may be use for circumventing
security (like packet sniffers, port scanners...) but whose purpose is not expressly mainly to illegally
gain access to other people's data are not prohibited. As an example of a program that would be, take
your common trojan whose main purpose is to hide on someone's computer and secrectly sniff data.
except VB.NET, then your hosed.
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
No VB6 has the ability for networking
My Transformation Website
Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
So? A Trabant has the ability to drive and still I wouldn't consider it a useful car to get anything done.
(Just to bring up one of the oh-so-much appreciated car analogies)
The ways you can get access to networking resources is SO limited in VB that it doesn't really matter.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
ping - send ICMP HACK_REQUEST packets to network hosts
-ne
Stop sending (and receiving) evil bit packets.
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..