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eBay May Lose 'Buy it Now' Button in Patent Case
Spamicles writes "A judge has delayed his ruling on the eBay patent infringement case. eBay has been involved in a legal dispute over the use of its popular "Buy it Now" button, which allows consumers to skip the bidding and purchase items on eBay directly. The patent suit was filed six years ago by MercExchange L.L.C. In May of 2003, a jury ruled in MercExchange's favor finding that eBay did in fact infringe on the patent, but in 2005 the US Supreme Court ruled that MercExchange was not automatically entitled to a court order blocking the offending service, essentially handing a victory down to patent reform advocates. However, the ruling by the Supreme Court does not affect the final judgment of the court."
That makes sense. Yay for software patents!
"Buy it later"
What this ruling is, is a concession by the courts for big business interests. The state has no interest in patent reform.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
"Buy it after waiting 1 second" button.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
Welcome to the future of 2009 where we can file patent suits whenever we feel like.
"Purchase it straight away" button, or something along those lines... We are a community where the mindset of "can't make profit? Litigate !" - and it is only getting worse.
using a link that says "buy it now" instead of a button?
I thought seriously about tagging this story with the tag "bull shit", because that's what this patent is. This should become the new poster child for "patent troll" and "patent office stupidity". This is even a more boneheaded patent than Amazon's non-innovation of one click buying (which always seems to take me two or three clicks anyway).
What's next, they're going so take Walmart to court because Walmart lets me buy something without bidding on it? Are they going to take the owners of the live auction I go to each week to court because after high bid is set on an item, they allow those present to buy multiples of that same item for the same high bid without running another auction process?
I'm all for the rights of a business to prosper and benefit from their original ideas. But this patent is about as far from "original" as you can get, and is as original as my getting up out of bed each morning and taking a piss. This company should be exterminated like the worthless parasite that it is. I said it before about SCO, and it applies here too...those who can innovate, while those who can't litigate.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
According to AP reports, the USPTO has looked at the patents issued to MercExchange, and in early findings, the USPTO said that the patents held by MercExchange should not have been issued.
Aye!! You just sneezed!! I have a patent on this style of sneezing! Pay me $$$$ !!
Aye! You just did a double click using the mouse! I own the patent for double clicking! Pay me now!!
Aye!! You just farted!! It smells crap!! ta-da..patent... I will sue ya!!
I wonder what other patents were granted in the past...
The current patent laws are so stupid that it causes me physical pain to witness the things that actually make it to court. When the people envisaging the patent system designed it, had they recieved applications like the ones routinely honoured today, they would have laughed the applicant out of their office. What they are claiming to have a patent on is the idea, or process, whereby you buy an item for a set price rather than bidding on it... ..... ...... And your court system is happy to deliberate on this. Seriously, how much deliberation do they require?
I bought some sushi today from the local sushi bar, and I didn't have to bid on it... they are obviously in violation of this patent... and I bought some hardware components from an online retailer, didn't have to bid there either.
The idea of patents was to enable people, particularly individuals on limited budgets, to profit from their original inventions. One of the core requirements of a patent is that it not be for something obvious.
Lets be honest. Does it get more obvious than the purchasing of something for a set price? Is there anyone that isn't familiar with that idea?
I think i'm going to burst a blood vessel on this one.
Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both
Ebay vs MercExchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_Inc._v._MercExch ange%2C_L.L.C.
the patent they are apparently fighting over [US Patent 5845265]
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fs rchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5845265.PN.&OS=PN/58452 65&RS=PN/5845265
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/05/28/eb
09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0
Ebay is going to throw a corpo-tantrum because of this. They'll lash out. In their home town? Then I'd watch out and cover my eyes...except you don't even have to be protesting to get hit this time.
Buy it immediately?
Purchase now?
Screw the bidding?
Screw the bidders?
Screw Flanders?
You are reading a sig. Cancel or allow?
NOW can we have patent reform? Please?
To boldly use to and too two times and get it right too! They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see it there!
Betcha no one has ever patented the concept of a 'doorbell' wherein you depress a momentary-contact switch to activate a sound-generating device that signals to all of those within hearing distance that someone is standing in front of the door and wishes to gain access. The old patents cover the idea of pulling a rope or chain to ring a bell but those are so yesterday.
MercExchange patents 'buy it now' - Thank You!
Ebay negotiates a license - How much you want?
Ebay doesn't get a license - Whoa! That's too much
Ebay intentionally uses it anyway - What are they gonna do, sue us?
MercExchange brings a lawsuit against Ebay - Yes
Judge rules in favor of MercExchange - I can see your name on the patent
Judge misapplies injuction process - this stuff is complicated
Ebay appeals the injuction - HaHa! a technicality
Judges rule that the injunction was done wrong - I can see the process wasn't followed
Judges also comment on current patent law - this shit sucks
MercExchange requests the injunction be applied permanently - we hate Ebay
Ebay requests postponement until patent is reassessed - No rush, we can wait 10 years
Judge must now make a decision - damned if I do, damned if I don't
Could someone please explain to me why certain patent battles, such as this, aren't just investigated for "independent creation" on the part of the accused infringer?
I'm pretty sure that I was taught in college that 2 people can hold the patents to 2 very similar products so long as both came up with their respective products independent of each other. With such a simple idea as "Buy it now", wouldn't a rational judge throw such a case out?
Besides simple corruption of the legal system by big money, what am I missing?
Screw them. Until E-bay institutes a much needed "overtime" change, I will never do business anymore. I'm tired of all the 1-second-till-end phantom biding programs and online services screwing me over.
Here's how it should work. Let's say the bid ends today at 5:00pm. However, if someone places a bid at 4:50pm, it should extend the end time to 5:10pm. At this point, it will continue to be extended to 5:20, 5:30, and 5:40 as long as there still bidding going on. Only when there's a period of inactivity, the bid is closed.
Such a system is fair for the bidder, and great for the seller. Also, e-bay would gain an extra cut from the increased sales revenue. It's a win, win, win situation for all parties involved. So WTF is holding E-bay back? Do they WANT to piss everyone off?
Life is not for the lazy.
Heh. Given that, say, the in-game auction house on WoW has an instant buy option too, I wonder how long until they'll want their cut there too.
;)
And will they take the license fee in game money, since that's all that changes virtual hands? I can just see a party of lawyers riding to Ironforge and Orgrimmar to demand their license fees.
Well, the dwarves might even pay up, but I'd worry about trying to collect from the Orcs. I doubt anyone explained to Thrall yet how the license system works. And troll tribes tend to kill each other on sight, so I'd advise the patent trolls to stay clear of the Darkspear trolls
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Is it any surprise the courts make these sort of decisions?
c le/2007/06/12/AR2007061201667.html?hpid=moreheadli nes
s prigman.html , in exchange for campaign donations http://consumerist.com/xml/comments/264638 . And lets not forget about hot cups of coffee. The entire legal system is a joke. The problem is people like Judge Pearson, Magistrate Chooljian and Attorney General Gonzales don't know it. They think they're important public officials part of a proud tradition who are loved and admired by the population they rule^H^H^H^Hserve. Suspect many people think otherwise.
A few days ago we had an idiot judge (yes, a *judge*) suing cleaners $54M for the emotional stress of losing is pants http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti
and hot on the heals of that we had an idiotic ruling by a U.S. Magistrate Judge Jacqueline Chooljian decreeing that RAM shall be archived. And we've got an Attorney General, the #1 lawyer in the country, who smirks "I don't recall" for hours of testimony, then goes back to work and it's business as usual.
The entire judicial legal system is an anachronism. As we've seen, it contains some very clueless (and sometimes downright stupid) people making important decisions. We've got patent law which is way out of control and anti-trust law which might as well not exist at all. The law is written for and sometimes even by corporations like the RIAA and Disney http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020305_
Time to turf the whole thing out and start again. I mean, how much worse is this going to get?
At least Americans are lucky they don't like in the former British Empire where you get some senile git wearing a black cape and a powdered wig banging a hammer and glaring at you, and expecting to be taken seriously. "This is my court!" they thunder. If any other public servant did that in their workplace, they'd be taken away for psychiatric assessment.
Clearly now Ebay is shamelessly ripping off MercExchange's Valuable Intellectual Property! That button to signify "buy at requested maximum price" is the clearly fruit of serious innovation obtained through hard-won research, and recognised as "original" by the widely acclaimed US Patent Office.
Ebay should pay up ... and quickly! Best that Ebay simply gives MercExchange it's main bank account and password so that MercExchange can help itself to whatever they feel are reasonable license fees. To avoid unnecessary delays you understand?
seriously, there's no point getting into a bidding war on any item on ebay and this is the approach i take.
I actually think that ebay (or $NewCompetitor) would do well to change the whole system over to blind bidding. That is you put in the max you're willing to pay at the start and have to wait until the auction is over to see who won and at what price and the auto-bid history behind that. Throughout the duration of the auction there would be no "current bid" on display, just the start price and the number of bidders. If person A bids $10 max and person B bids $15 max person B will still win with $10.01 but they'd both have to wait and see.
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
What do you guys think about patenting something like this:
The invention uses a foot operated pedal to regulate the volumetric flow of a near stoichiometric mixture of air and petrochemicals into an internal combustion engine. The foot pedal is hinged and has a range of travel appropriate to the ability of a human to modulate the use of their foot. For the case a of handicapped human, the pedal can be substituted by a hand actuated lever.
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
for such shit like patenting something similar to a roadside label with a writing on it, only because it is translated into digitized environment, does not exist.
Read radical news here
"Get Now!" or "Get it Now!" ? - Or is it the actual process of clicking a button to skip an otherwise lengthier ordering/bidding/auction process that the patent locks out? "Buy Now" is so ubiquitous on the net - seems like this would be a hard one to enforce. I use an "E-Bid" function on my site for optional bids instead of the normal "Add" (to cart) button. Could "Add" or "Add to Cart" be considered skipping the bidding process, or does this only apply to the exact words "Buy Now"? I wonder if I can patent the "Play" process for all media players. ;)
--- Shoo-be-doo-be-do-wop-say-what-yeah!
Before someone in say, the Trade Department, realises that every stupid patent awarded, every 10 year old summonsed by the RIAA and every stupid copyright restriction imposed or self-imposed on websites is adversely affecting the trading position of the USA in the world? It's not to say that real world issues should be ignored by the Internet but there has to be some common sense applied and less of this blind gold rush. Ebay's response could be as simple as lifting their servers and moving them somewhere where software patents don't exist, which would probably be cheaper than paying whatever stupid licencing price these parasites want to impose. It's a shame that Neal Stephenson's Kinakuta doesn't yet exist, as every big US online company that has been screwed over by the cretinous US patenting system, and every company that has fallen foul of the ridiculous protectionist policies of the current government would be falling over themselves to set up there. Anyone got a spare island?
I've been editing a patent article for a law review for which I'm an editor. This particular article discusses European patent law, and from it I think I've learned that Europe has no business method patents and no software patents unless the software is an implementation of something that could be patentable had it been done without software (e.g., something that could be patentable if done mechanically, but because it is being done on a computer it should not be excluded from patent protection).
Are their any European lawyers out there who can verify what I've just said? I think this is a prime example of where Europe gets it right and America gets it wrong.
Note that by "Europe" i mean "The EU."
I am happy for announcing that I have the patent of breathing. then now each time that you breathe you've to pay me $0.01!!! "Breathe Now"
For any random stupid idea that falls out of your head.
mod parent informative
g =facts
I asked Google about the McCoffee. And it told me 300 contradictory things, including that McCoffee was drunk by whoever was on the grassy knoll and if you look closely at footage of the moonlanding, you can see a McCoffee next to a "moonrock." Then Google showed me crotch shots of celebrities getting out of limmos holding McCoffee. In the corner, an Google ad appeared saying "Buy Hot McCoffee Lap from eBay!"
So I gave up on Google and asked Snopes.com. Snopes is the original urban legends guy from the days when Internet was e-mail and news groups. Think of him as Mythbusters long before beries became unfashionable again. Snopes pointed me at this, which he claims is an accurate summary of the incident:
http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&p
As Snopes says, the details of that case were exaggerated, but there's still a strong case for tort reform. I suspect Judge "No Pants" Pearson will be on poster. For an encore Pearson should sue himself for emotional distress for making an ass (no pun intended) out of himself.
http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp
Troll #2: Dunno... It wave this paper and shrieks "Patant violitor!" and no want to shut up, so I just spear him.
Troll #1: Mmmm... Ya think it be fit for eatin?
Troll #2: Dunno, it looking scrawny.
Troll #1: (Cuts off an arm and takes a bite.) Ptui!...(Spits out chunk of flesh).
Troll #2: No good.. huh?
Troll #1: It spoiled methinks....
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
that Wooston is a former CIA agent who is now "walking on sunshine?" Someone should sue him for using a song lyric in his speech. Cronyism? C'mon. Cronyism today in the era of BushCo? I wonder if he was a Freemason before he became CIA and got some clever ideas while sitting at his desk getting a check from the fed or driving around in his CIA motorpool car. Maybe one of his buddies told him how to do it.
if someone else said this, for I have not read all the comments.
Howabout
"Buy it later"
"Buy it this afternoon"
"Buy it with tea and crumpets"
"But it yesterday"
"But it whenever the hell you want"
"Just don't buy it"
"Huh?"
"Don't buy this, buy my socks"
?
(ok, the last one was a reach)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Thanks to all who replied and cleared this up! =) (The mix up of mine being the terminology "patent" and "copyright".)
According to the patent here HERE it looks exactly like a "Buy-Out Auction" but on a computah. Does this then imply that I can take any archaic process put it on a computah (or just say I can) and patent troll, too?
Sounds very Half Baked -- "... but have you seen it... on weed?
I, for one, welcome our patent-enforcing Flanders-screwing overlords.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
"Purchase this item at the present time"
Most people don't even think inside the box.
One email to each for every click.
Might give our elected representatives a new perspective on how popular the software/business process patent aspect of Intellectual Property is.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
OK, granted, the article wasn't specific on what the patent was based on, but it seems to me that if you've got a website that intends to SELL something, that somewhere on that page, there should be a button to allow a potential customer to BUY the item. I am going to assume for a moment that the act of BUYING an item is not a patentable concept (I hope this assumption is correct).. If so, what is patented? The color of the button? The exact wording? What the heck? The Patent office is truly out of control.
-Steve Tired of voting for the "lesser of two evils?" Come talk about it on www.bothsidesarewrong.com
Apart from the usage of words how is 'Buy it now' any different from 'Add to Cart'? The process seems exactly the same to me. Maybe this is why I don't have any patents to my name.
eBay stands accused of infringing on a software patent?
The irony is so delicious...
Buy from CowboyNeal
I would rather be killed by a terrorist than enslaved by my government.
> eBay has claimed that they have changed the code in order to prevent any patent violations claimed in the suit, but
> MercExchange lawyers say that they are still entitled to a hearing in order to force eBay to license the patents.
But that's not good enough for MercExchange because they're entitled to a few bucks, no?? I'm surprised Ford hasn't sued GM for making a car that looks similar to theirs. A LAW SUIT OVER A F**KING BUTTON!!! Give me a break!! This is exactly why countries like China, India, Israel and Japan are kicking our ass!! American companies don't innovate anymore, they sue!! Lawyers are destroying this country one suit at a time.
First the "facts" of the case as presented by the lawyers state that McDonalds held their coffee ready to serve at 180-190 F. I have found no evidence to substantiate their claim that other establishments served their coffee at 135-140 F prior to the lawsuit. You'll notice the page glosses over the temperature with a couple "factual" statements, then spends the rest of its time describing the burns and what temperatures are required to avoid them completely ignoring any requirements imposed by the coffee. That's the strategy they used during the trial to sway the jury.
The National Coffee Association of the U.S recommends the coffee be maintained at 180-185 F.
The Specialty Coffee Association of America recommends the coffee be held at 175-185 F (you have to buy their guidebooks to see the actual numbers so the link is not to their site).
Bunn, a major producer of coffee brewing and serving equipment recommends a holding temperature of 175-185 F and in fact recommends any coffee below 175 F be re-heated before serving. They also note that many of the aromatics will not evaporate at 150 F, thus depriving the coffee of its characteristic smell. This would appear to contradict the claim that other establishments served coffee at 135-140 F.
Starbucks sells coffee dispensing equipment which puts out coffee at 180 F.
The same manufacturer, DeLonghi produces a unit with a 150-200 F temperature setting, indicating the 155 F recommended by the lawyers' site is at the extreme bottom of preferred coffee serving temperatures, and IMHO unsuitably cool for coffee served at a drive-through which in most cases will not be consumed until after a 5-15 minute drive to a destination.
I'll repeat, this is a product which is meant to be served in a state which is dangerous if mishandled. What's next, airlines being sued because their planes fly at a speed which is fatal if there's an accident? Or power companies being sued because electrical lines can cause severe burns or fatality if mishandled? The lawsuit points out that 700 people were also burned by McDonalds coffee in the 10 years prior. But McDonalds served tens of billions of cups of coffee during the same time, leading to an incident rate of one in 24 million . If I were a safety engineer and my product had an incident rate of one in 24 million, I'd be ecstatic at how safe it was!
The RIAA has that one patented!!!!
If you are so anti-IP then why don't you go visit RMS's discussion board instead of Slashdot where I am now looking at an AT&T wireless banner ad?
Or how about a web site dedicated to North Korea's tech industry?
5,443,036 Method of exercising a cat [using a laser pointer]
6,025,810 Hyper-light-speed antenna [claims communication faster than light!!!]
6,368,227 Method of swinging on a swing [all claims cancelled on re-examination]
There are lots more of similar utility, non-obviousness, and inventiveness. The US PTO has indeed been lax.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
somebody should patent the business process of creating dumb patents for the sole purpose of suing somebody in the future for using the obvious idea. Then when moron companys like MercExchange do this you can sue them for being dick heads.
I'm getting sick of these. You think if there's a million monkeys who bid on a random service no one would come up with proxy bidding (the site will bid for you up to a certain amount) or buy it now buttons, yet there's patents on both of them.
I get really sick when simplistic business practices are considered treated the same as "trade secrets" even when they are publicly released. I get the feeling that America has become less of a free economy and more of a "patent hell". You certainly can build a better mouse trap, until the first company says they thought up the idea of a mouse trap and then your screwed.
Change it to a "Stop the bidding process by offering a sufficient sum of cash to guarantee satisfaction of the seller's minimum requirements for sale" button. Patent that, of course.
Some settling may occur during posting.
is a bad idea, as long as the auto incramenting bid is in use. because it would take like, 2 days, tops, for it to escalate out of control when two people bid like a million dollars max bid on a furby, and it keeps overtiming and auto incamenting the bid untill somone actualy wins a cheep plastic doll for seven hundred fifty thousand dolars. you have to have one or the other, auto-bid, or overtime. World of warcraft uses an overtime system, and its nice, it also includes a buyout, but there is no bidding a max ammount, and letting the bid rise to that, you bid, and your bid is the new minimum that the auction is at. cant have it both ways.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
When in college, a marketing professor of mine told the class a story of buying his car. He visited multiple dealerships in the area telling them what car he wanted, with what options, etc. He then asked them to write their minimum price on their business card and seal it in an envelope. Once they were all received, he and his wife would sit at home, open the bids and chose the lowest. When asked, "What if my bid is $1000 to high?" to which he replied, "Well, then reduce it another $1000 then."
However, whether he did or didn't do this is up for debate.
If you were willing to buy that mint Chrono Trigger for more than your inital bid, then bid higher.
The "buy it now" option is the only one I use. I hate auctions.
"Bidding" is a complete joke. You might aswell set your max bid to $1,000,000 if you actually want to win anything... and hope nobody catches on and bids $999,998.
Is there any reason anything other than an individual be granted a patent?
why are corps owners of patents?
or am I mistaken?
errera hunamum ets
I don't think you all (generalization) are fully understanding the issues here. Ebay has NOT contested the patent. They have in fact chosen to legitimize the patent by their actions. They have much MORE to lose by having the patent (and others like it) overturned. They have simply tried to bypass the process of paying for it, and draw out the legal process. This is about one company trying to get away with something, because they are bigger, and can make it take forever in court. Eventually if things don't go their way, they might consider addressing the validity of the patent itself, but that is at least 5 years off. Until then they are just 'negotiating' the cost of this (obviously bad) patent. This is how companies do business.
... the USPTO 'Patent It Now' button's use continues unabated.
Have gnu, will travel.
Taking a page from N.I.C.E. I'd suggest "I'd hit it".
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I can see your point with regard to ideas that are truly expensive to implement.
I don't think this applies to software. How much does it cost to put a button on a web page?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Add a 3 second delay to submit. Rename service (see headline) Problem solved. :)
...How would you feel if I patented a wheel-based device for forcibly ramming heads up asses?
Or (given that you're unlikely to survive such a procedure), is this fucking-wheel you mentioned prior art?
It's a semantic issue. Change the button to read, "Bid x dollars" where x is the instant purchase amount. The auction closes for that item shortly thereafter, and bingo. Problem solved.
Well, poo, there you go and ruin my fantasy. It's a nicer thought to think someone will sue the royal court of Ironforge and I get to ambush their wagons loaded with gold coins ;)
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
True story.
Not that I really want to enter all of my ID THEFT details
in this virus riddled and alphabet soup bugged machine
in the first place.
RR