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Review of Ergonomic Evoluent VerticalMouse 3
JJJumper writes "CoolTechZone.com reviews Evoluent's VerticalMouse 3 mouse that's touted to be the world's most health conscious, ergonomics friendly mouse in the world. And it's vertical, too, instead of horizontal. The review states, "Unlike other mice, Evoluent's VerticalMouse 3 stands vertical to locate your hand in a handshake position, or where the arm is in 90-degrees form from the tabletop. It even has a small lip at the bottom to prevent your little finger from touching the desk. According to the company, this is the most natural position for the hand to be in and it reduces a magnitude of stress from your hand, wrist and arm. Apparently traditional mice with horizontal statures twist your lower arm and put unnecessary stress on its vital areas. We must admit that getting used to the mouse didn't take too long, even though it was slightly awkward to get used to in the beginning. After all, old habits die hard."
You can pick it up at Amazon for $60.23. About 20 bucks below retail - not a bad deal.
That is an affiliate link- if you consider that to be a problem, you don't want to click on it.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The review seems only to be touting the health benefits of using the mouse, but if it really reduced stress on key parts of your wrist and arm I expect it would be a lot more comfortable, too. The only problem I can forsee is that it wouldn't fit on those roll-out trays that a lot of desks have for your keyboard and mouse, and that's a pretty serious drawback.
This game will waste your life. Don't clicky!
I can use my pain meds on tennis elbow instead of carpal tunnel.
I have never experienced any pain or stress, even if I sit at my computer for extended ("unhealthy") periods. Why would you pay an extra buck to get a sketchy guarantee for a healthier wrist? The health effect on your wrist from a regular mouse is probably very minute.
it isn't using the mouse that is causing most geeks wrist pain when using their PC. If you know what I mean.
RTA |...For $80, it's not the most affordable mouse in the market...|
Let's see my 3 computer's mice(which i guess needs to be replaced now) time $80 each = $240 plus tax. Hmmm, what a deal!!!
Well, considering it's probably cheaper than a brain interface, sounds like a pretty good way to cut down RSI. Now to convince my boss that the IT department all need one. I tried the trigger mice, but they are too slow to pick up and use when you're mostly coding and only need to occasionally mouse. If you're gonna mouse for awhile, those work pretty well, although they aren't quite precise enough for gaming (or rather, I haven't become adept at using them for that purpose).
The Evoluent looks good, but it's still only usable in one single position as far as I can tell from the write-up. Even though this is a better and more natural position than regular mice, I'd rather use a mouse that promotes changes in posture, like this one: http://www.perific.com/products/
Money for nothing, pix for free
right here.
They seemed to like it as well.
Link seems to be getting crushed at the moment. Here's an alternate.
http://www.evoluent.com/
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
I used to use the VM2, but their failure to produce a wireless model has kept my Logitech G7 firmly in hand. I've found that using the Kinesis keyboard has been sufficient to reduce all of my hand pain.
it seems to me that a lot of the problem it the whole scoot scoot scoot scoot factor so a properly calibrated joystick would fix that (since everything turns to absolute positions)
but nobody has done a Joystick as a mouse driver (okay it would blow the pacman factor into hyperspace but...) heck your emacs fans could work the airplane pedals in.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
I don't know about you, but when I place my hand on the desk, the palm of my hand is not 90 degrees to the desk surface. It's in the same shape and position that I'd have it if it were cupped over my mouse.
Chair/desk height and position have more to do with comfort and repetitive strain injuries than the shape or either your keyboard or mouse. Gimmick!
[ps -- works fine with Linux, just plug it in and start clicking]
Shouldn't be too hard to convert a regular optical mouse to do this. I think all you'd need was a hammer and some duct tape. But you could say that about most things I suppose.
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
I recently discovered this other ergonomic mouse from 3M that has really saved my wrists. It's not the greatest mouse in the world (wish Logitech would buy the design) but the benefit to my health has been amazing. I was beginning to have lots of wrist pain when using a normal mouse and switching to one of these permanently alleviated any pain I was having. I highly recommend either this or the mouse featured in the posted article. This "handshake position" is really how we should have been using mice all along.
http://www.airtech.net/3mermousnewv.html
"No wireless. Fewer buttons than a Logitech MX610. Lame."
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
About 6 months ago I purchased a track ball (part# 904369-0403) to try and reduce stress on my wrists. A co-worker purchased the device being reviewed. After several months, neither of us could get use to either device. In fact, we both felt worse trying to use the new devices. He let other co-workers try the device, but none of us really liked it.
I imagine if you have serious problems with your wrists, these type of devices could help as you are using different muscles. Our problems were just sore wrists. I have found that learning the keyboard shortcuts have helped me out much more. If I can do WIN-key E and not right click on START, then Explorer and other such things, my wrists are fine at the end of the day. WIN-key E and then c:\program files\.... versus navigating with the mouse.. It's more keystrokes, but those are much easier than using the mouse all day.
I have no problems with mouse discomfort, but when I play games, my keyboard hand keeps going numb. Make me vertical keyboard!
I have one. Chevron recommends them to their employees. Personally I like it; however I have to be very careful with it or the edge of my hand will rest on the table as I move the mouse around. I do not have very big hands and I suspect that people that do would have a problem. Basically it needs to be a little taller
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
In order to achieve the best possible posture I employ a small chinese boy to move my mouse as I command it.... as an experiment I have asked him to hold the mouse vertically and apparently it feels less accurate.
This Mouse is not good it made my problem worse.
o mics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/
I have problems with my right hand and I have tried every ergonomic mouse that I could get my hands on. The best mouse I have found is the 3M Ergonomic Mouse
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergon
I do a lot of cad work and my wrist started hurting even though I was using a Logitech ergonomic mouse. I knew I needed to get a mouse that was vertical. I tried many mice and ended up using the Evoluent Vertical Mouse. My wrist stopped hurting but after two weeks the tendons on the back of my hand started hurting. I think it was because the scroll wheel on the Evoluent Vertical Mouse is too close and you end up bending your fingers a lot to use it. Before the Evoluent mouse my hand tendons were fine and after they started hurting. The tendon problem is worse then the original wrist problem and it still plagues me so I am pretty annoyed about that.
The mouse I use now is the 3M Ergonomic Mouse and it is really nice. The only problem is that it has no scroll wheel (that is why I didn't use it in the first place). I will gladly give up the scroll wheel for no pain in my hand.
Wish I didn't have this problem.
Like these:
http://www.ergo-items.com/3m_ergonomic_mouse.htm
http://www.ergo-items.com/quillMouse.htm
http://www.ergo-items.com/zero_tension_mouse.htm
Not to mention the mouse we used to call "Richard Mouse" back in the day (about 10 years ago) when I was just getting my start in the gaming industry and the place I worked bought an "ergonomic" mouse that operated on these principles so we could test it with our game.
What are all of us left-handed people supposed to do with this?
I, like many office workers, sit in an non-OSHA approved seating position while at work. My chair is at it's lowest height, leaned back as far as it will go, and my arm is not near a 90 degree angle. But I'm damn comfortable. My mouse is pointed at "11:00" because that's how my wrist like it. My brain is trained to understand that forward towards the monitor will lead the mouse pointer diaganol towards the top right of the screen. Moving the mouse diagonaly left/forward, moves the pointer vertically on the screen.
To compensate for the fact that I don't have a "natural" or "ergonomic" keyboard I have changed my finger position from the standard "asd fjkl;" line up to "cdsa nkl;" my fingers make the "ergonomic" shape.
They make these things for people who sit "properly" the only problem is that most people don't sit "properly"
I knew a guy who had a similar mouse called the "quill mouse" (I think). He found it comfortable, and I tried it a few times, but the problem I has was that the mouse would move to the left as you pressed the buttons. Hard to be really accurate when you're pushing the mouse to the left just to click a button.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I remember trying out a foot-pedal mouse a few years back at Comdex. IIRC, the left foot tilt forward and backwards was left and right click, and the right foot on a 360 rocker was the mouse control. It was extremely easy and accurate, although probably not fast enough for gaming. But paired with a regular handheld mouse, was highly useful. Without the handheld, it meant you could operate the interface without taking your hands off the keyboard. I don't remember who made it.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
... and I love the thing. I use (the left-hand model) with my Kinesis keyboard, and for the first time in my life i haven't had those annoying pains when at the computer for long time.
Kinesis (I think) will actually let you try the mouse for a while and then return it (money-back satisfaction guarantee) although there's a possibility that it's just for thei keyboards (although I thought it included the mouse also) -- might be worth paying the little extra than you can get it for elsewhere. J&R was the cheapest I've seen it (and I've got less qualms buying from them than some place like Amazon as someone else had suggested).
Never trust anyone over 90000.
Actually, I just turned my normal mouse on its side and started moving it around seeing how it would feel if it actually worked that way... To be honest, it was a bit more comfortable on my wrist, but I realized that I would lose an important function of the traditional orientation.
How many people use their fingers to move the mouse around? I know I do on occasion... When I'm making fine adjustments to my pointer, I don't move my whole wrist, I move my fingers only, and that reason alone keeps me from buying the vertical mouse. With your hand in the handshake position, you won't be able to move the mouse with your fingers, and won't get the same fine-grained control as you would with fingers.
Also, their "expert opinions" note on the article seems a bit flaky:
Some doctors who specialize in ergonomics consider the vertical position preferable.
Some doctors? It just seems like some doctor with a degree held one and said, "Yeah that feels a bit better." They made no mention of a medical reason to use one over any other mouse, they simply said, "It might feel a little better."
A Trackball? I have a reasonable Logitech one that only cost me $40, being that the only thing you actually have to move is your fingers I can't imagine the strain on my wrist being too great.
What makes a vertical mouse that forces you to move your arm around better than a trackball where your arm/wrist remains relatively stationary?
I get pains in the tendons in the back of my hand when using a regular mouse so I use a trackball: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/tr ackballs/devices/189&cl=gb,en
It has the benefit of always being in the same place, just off to the right of my short (no num pad) keyboard. The short keyboard has stopped my shoulder blade clicking every time I reached out and over the num pad to get to the track ball. As a 10 finger typist I'm pretty handy with the numbers along the top of a keyboard but I've got a USB num pad for longer data entry type jobs. Been using this setup for three pain free years.
Stupid flounders!
I'm using one right now. Good points:
t _VerticalMouse_2-mouse"
- Certainly reduces stress on arm muscles. Now some other part of my body fails first e.g. eyes, back, typing-fingers.
Not-so-good points:
- Price. Especially if you're unfortunate enough to want to use your left hand. (I'm left handed for writing, but mouse with my right hand.)
- If you have small hands you'll find that you cannot reach right around the mouse, so you won't be pressing the optimal part of the button.
- Using the scroll wheel extensively will still cause RSI.
- You may find that you move the mouse a bit when you click a button. This can generally be overcome after a bit of practice, but even now I think I'm less precise as a result. This could matter if you use your mouse for something like a drawing program where pixel-accuracy matters.
- The edge of your hand will be on your desk / mouse mat. I find this makes my hand cold.
On balance I think it was a good purchase, but it's not perfect. If you do decide to get one, here is a n xorg.conf fragment for it. This maps the main three buttons and the scroll-wheel as you (probably) expect them, and makes the thumb button into a scroll button: hold it down and move the mouse up and down and the app gets scroll-wheel events.
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Evoluent Vertical Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/by-id/usb-Kingsis_Peripherals_Evoluen
# You might expect 'Protocol USB' to work, but it doesn't
Option "Protocol" "Auto"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "false"
# The physical buttons are:
# 1: forefinger
# 2: pressing the wheel
# 3: middle finger
# 4: right finger
# 5: thumb
# By default, these are assigned to the following logical buttons:
# 1 -> 1: forefinger
# 2 -> 2: pressing the wheel
# 3 -> 3: middle finger
# 4: wheel
# 5: wheel
# 4 -> 8: right finger
# 5 -> 9: thumb
# I want to remap these to:
# 1 -> 1: forefinger
# 2 & 3 -> 2: middle finger, OR pressing the wheel
# 4 -> 3: right finger
# 4: wheel
# 5: wheel
# 5 -> ?: thumb
# This is achieved with the following:
Option "ButtonMapping" "1 2 2 3 8"
# The thumb button is now used to support synthetic mouse
# movement drags:
Option "EmulateWheel" "true"
Option "EmulateWheelButton" "8"
EndSection
I find these vertical mice even worse than a regular mouse - I don't know about the reviewers, but when my hand is resting on its side on a desk it's sitting on my wrist bones rather than the nice soft pad of my palm. This becomes quite excruciating after a while.
The only way I've found of alleviating mouse related pains is by changing hands regularly, and alternating with use of a trackball too.
And I've tried everything except touch screens - which just don't have the accuracy.
Note that the only supported drivers for this mouse (and its predecessor) are for 32-bit XP and Vista. (See the driver download page at http://www.evoluent.com/download.htm.) The site links to a "freeware" driver provided by somebody else, but it had enough issues that I had to uninstall it.
I own an Evoluent VerticalMouse 2, which became an $80 paperweight after my work OS became WinXP x64. Evoluent's support told me that no 64-bit driver was forthcoming.
Put a racing stripe on that baby and I'm sold!
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
I was thinking about this during a spell of RSI years ago and came up with this (weegie). It's almost usable, at least to the kind of person who'd consider learning Dvorak or a Twiddler. I'd love it if someone could figure out something better than our current keyboard/mouse arrangement.
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
A work college of mine had a similar thing, was basically a broken joystick that slid around the table. It was infuriating to use, but whatever gets you off I guess... This thing looks like a poor rip off.
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
No matter what you do, there is no part of the human body that doesn't suffer when repetitive activity occurs for any amount of time. It mystifies me that people believe that changing positions or movements will change anything over the long term. Even if we could "think" at our computers to operate them, we'd still end up with some form of stress disorder. It has been shown that people who use voice recognition systems ALSO suffer from "RSD." How ridiculous is that? And I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to consider how difficult it would become to use your mind alone to control a computer... with our culture of "ADD" and all?
Make a thousand different mice and you will still never come up with one that won't result in a RSD eventually. Best answer is just not to do the same thing from the same position day after day... mix things up the way humans are meant to be! We're not robots... and if we are, we're not particularly good robots.
After an acute bout of wrist pain a few years back, I tried just about every pointing device you can imagine. I went through two different trackballs, a pen and even a joystick. Finally, about 18 months ago, I started using the vertical Zero Tension Mouse (ZTM). It's cured my troubles. I never tried the Evoluent mouse that's the subject of this review but I can tell you that one thing I really like about the ZTM is the platform to support the hand. It appears that's missing from Evoluent's product.
As for those posters who stated that using the fingers to finely control a horizontal mouse is a feature that's lost in a vertical mouse, well, that's true, in a sense. I admit that there was a transition required of a few days for me to get used to the ZTM but I now find it as finely controllable as any other mouse. You end up, it appears, using tiny jiggling motions of the arm and little turning actions of the hand.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
Give a man a match: warm him for an instant. Douse him in petrol and set him aflame: warm him for the rest of his life.
He doesn't experience much pain or discomfort, but then it hits him. Your wrist/hand may not be complaining now, but may in time, eventually have some problems.
A mouse tends to keep a wrist at its full pronation (hand down) - which is not a normal thing. Anything that stresses a joint at its limit is morelikely to cause problems.
..........FULL STOP.
> You can pick it up at Amazon for $60.23.
Whereas on amazon.co.uk, it's 76 *pounds*, or roughly $150.
Ye flippin' gods...
About three years ago I had to switch to a 3M vertical mouse due to RSI problems with my clicker fingers. The advantage with the 3M modal is that right and left mouse clicks are performed with your thumb in a neutral position. It took about 2 days to get use to the new buttons. Since the change I have not had a single problem.
"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
I bought this product a couple weeks ago since I was starting to experience pain from mousing. The mouse cost a bundle and it doesn't even come with a Mac driver, but it has cleared up my discomfort. I find that since my hand is significantly larger than the body of the mouse, it keeps me from being tempted to rest my hand/arm on the desk while mousing. This is also the case with my kinesis keyboard (the real one, not their new cheapo rubber membrane keyboards). A hand-floating postition is supposedly better ergonomically since the freedom of wrist motion means you can offload some of the movement to larger tougher joints, preventing the smaller joints from having to reach as far as often. Buying quality input devices, using a break timer, and fixing your posture can save you a bunch of money and pain if you are a professional computer user.
One thing that I keep hearing about in my department is shoulder pain...sort of a constant ache around the right shoulder blade (if you're right-mouse-handed). This is due to you having your shoulder raised for hours a day working with the mouse. You don't notice it really -- your shoulder's probably raised only 1/2 and inch or so, but it's all day long so the muscle builds up a mighty knot and can leave people reaching over their shoulders rubbing their back each day. You have to have a great ergonomic chair/desk combo or the ability to focus on relaxing your shoulder all day long (and thereby getting your body into the habit of having it relaxed).
A chair mouse is the way to go. The "pad" sits perpendicular to the floor and hangs off the side of your chair. That way, your arm and shoulder are down all day long. How to keep the mouse on the side of the chair the whole day? Maybe make a normal mouse with a flat bottom edge (that doesn't interfere with your grip). When you're done for the moment with the mouse, you can just set it down into a tray at the bottom of your pad.
Only partly joking: this vertical mouse is at best marginally different from many other mice out there. I'm a long-time trackball lover, but here's the question I want to ask: how long until we get a track/point/click glove? We've all seen those MediaLab demos of one open-air motion interpreting device or another, so how long until a reasonably affordable (presumably BlueTooth) glove-like device comes along?
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Try this simple test: rest your arm on a desk in front of you, with your thumb pointing straight upward. Now how "ergonomic" does that feel? Can you feel the muscle stress in your arm? Now RELAX those muscles: to what position does your arm and hand naturally move?
That's right: it naturally wants to rotate approximately ninety degrees... just about the right position for a standard mouse.
The claims of this product are a lie, because the muscles in your forearm are actually MORE stressed in the required position, not less. Ergonomic, my ass.
Try this simple test: rest your arm on a desk in front of you, with your thumb pointing straight upward. Now how "ergonomic" does that feel? Can you feel the muscle stress in your arm? Now RELAX those muscles: to what position does your arm and hand naturally move?
That's right: it naturally wants to rotate approximately ninety degrees... just about the right position for a standard mouse.
The claims of this product are a lie, because the muscles in your forearm are actually MORE stressed in the required position, not less. Ergonomic, my ass.
I did some office ergonomics training after suffering a mousing injury, and I loathe Evoluent's mice. Unfortunately central H&S keep going over my head and bringing in outside consultants who keep selling us these pieces of cr*p (on a nice commission, too).
Why do I say pieces of cr*p? Well, you're supposed to grip stuff with your fingers. Everyone knows it -- doctors, physiotherapists, even ring-tailed lemurs. Unfortunately, when you're using one of these, your fingers are all sat on top of buttons. If you try to grip with your fingers, you end up clicking. So instead you grip with your palm. This introduces tension into the whole forearm and I reckon this is even worse than a standard mouse. After all, the palm has no muscles of its own and relies on the finger muscles to do everything. This means you're using the same muscles for gripping as clicking. That, my friends, is called "overuse", which leads to "overuse injuries"....
HAL.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
I don't think its the posture of the hand (it has evolved to move around after all), but the grip you need on one tightening up the muscles and tendons whist doing so. Think how much RSI you'd get resting your hand on a table all day.
Still, this is an interesting alternative: for $25 you get an optical mouse that is attached to your finger so the laser is aligned with the finger, no grip required (though clicking the buttons with your thumb may not be as good as, say, tapping the end on the table).
What we need is a Brain-Computer interface.
Mouses are limited,they require learning and specific motor skills(same with keyboards).
Its the end of input technology.Nothing would be
faster,more accurate or more intuitive then properly designed brain-computer interface.
I just bought one of these last week on a recommendation from a friend. I have big hands, about 3.75" across at the palm, and found this mouse to be a little small in the height for me, and too "thick" to comfortably hold with big hands. Also, it's a very light mouse. Many mice have a metal weight in them so that they have more substance, this mouse has none, so it's very light in the hand. This gives it s cheap feel, IMO, and the mouse buttons share that light-cheap feel too.
;)
The shape is ok, but I for one would prefer if rather than vertical, it were angled at about 35-40 degrees. Sadly, I've been entirely unable to find a mouse that's a good cross between this type and an old fashioned Logitech USB wheel mouse.
In the end, I was very frustrated by my purchase, and wound up selling it on eBay over the weekend. I'm sure for some people it's great, my friend loves it and just bought another one before he suggested it to me, but I'm not it's target audience.
One word of warning, it's a high resolution mouse, 2400dpi or some such, so I had to turn the sensitivity down to the lowest setting or else every millimeter of movement had the cursor smashing into my monitor's bezel.
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
Most of the ergonomic mice I've seen fix about half the ergonomic problem with mice. They focus on the position of the user's hand and wrist, ignoring the fact that on a desktop PC operated by a right handed user, the mouse is located to the right of the keyboard, past the arrow keys and numeric keypad. Any amount of mouse use involves either moving the keyboard to the left or holding your arm extended to the right for a potentially extended period of time. I'm not an expert, but this seems far removed from the recommendations of balanced posture that most ergonomics experts tend to advocate. By that argument, you'd almost be better off using a TrackPoint and trying to focus as much as possible on using the keyboard instead of the pointing device.
My keyboard also promotes palms down. Are we going to see a vertical keyboard next?
Who came up with that? Is it so hard to have two tags: input, device? Or did they mean development resulting in tags: input, development?
I bought the Evoluent 3 a few weeks ago, and it's saved my life. Pain has gone away after one day, and it's easy to use. It's a little slower to work with, but only a little. Programming it right is a saver - I have the middle button set for double-click, the upper button is left click and the lower button is right click - and that takes a lot of load off my carpal'ed right hand and leave me more energy left to do other important things with my right hand.
As a side note, the Evoluent keyboard is cool, other than you can't tilt it - it's driving me crazy. And the evoluent mousepad is a waste of money - I went though 2 of them in 2 days. They fall apart easy. But the vertical mouse - it's incredible, and is a great programmers mouse.
Horns are really just a broken halo.
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SQL =
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SQL =
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"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Been around for years:
http://comfortkeyboard.com
I ran into the VM2 a couple years ago, and bought one for home & one for work. I also game a lot, so how the mouse behaved in a gaming situation was important.
I can't use a regular mouse without my hand starting to hurt immediately. With the VM2 & 3 I can use it for a long time without pain. Its a very nice design.
But a weird design.... it takes a day or so to get used to it. But once you do.... you will see another unexpected benefit.. other people will be afraid of your mouse & will stop using your computer! At work I keep a second normal mouse plugged in just in case someone has to come over & use it. But the VM freaks them out enough that most people just stay away...
Both VM2 & 3 have 3 main mouse buttons: left-click, dbl-click, right-click. I hate the dbl-click button, so I always set the middle button to right-click & disable the 3rd button altogether.
The VM2 had a problme where sometimes it would jump around the screen. The VM3 eliminated that issue; its very stable now.
I have no problem with gaming using either mouse. I attribute my low scores to my general suckiness at gaming, not to the hardware.
In short, I'd recommend it to anyone with RSI issues.
Save the Music; Save the World at http://www.TuneTriever.com (Our latest Android game)
Many people can benefit from this mouse. I used to have pain that ran from my shoulder down to my forearm. I was using a MS Optical Mouse. When I switched to V2 of the Evoluent that pain went away. I'm very happy with it.
I found the learning curve was pretty flat. You are using the same fingers for everything its just turned 90 degrees.
There were no Vista drivers last I checked. The generic driver works for the main functions though.
All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
Have been using the Evoluent II mouse since about mid/late last yr (ergo assessment at work agreed to negative camber keyboard/mouse tray and the new mouse). Took little time to get used to it and it has eased the developing pain(s) in my right hand/wrist. Of course, no one else can sit at my desk and get anything done, but that's too darn bad. It's a god-awful colour [purple/black], but it works (for work); though I did have to disable the bottom button (would be right-most one on a regular mouse), due to twitchy nerves/fingers. I'll get one for home as soon as they produce a wireless version.
Was the site slashdotted? I tried to read the review and it didn't work out for me. One thing's for sure: they need to get themselves a security expert on the double to take a look at their web code. Spitting out this sort of error
is a very bad thing.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
I don't think my problem is arm position, but rather repetitive button-pressing stress, particularly with 3D apps, which require a lot of prolonged button holding.
I have a second mouse to the left of my keyboard, and switch off occasionally to reduce usage with the right hand. It'd be nice if I could reverse the buttons on only the left mouse, so I could use either interchangeably, but I can't, so I have to swap the buttons in the control pannel and switch mice.
Alternatively, I can rotate the left mouse 180 degrees so it is facing me, and use my thumb to press its buttons. This is a little more clumsy, but I can then use either mouse interchangeably, and the thumb doesn't get sore so easily.
I wish I could try out one of those floor switch things before buying one.
Like the hand gestures in minority report, why not use a theremin type interface for a mouse? You'd control your cursor just by moving your finger/hand through an imaginary grid in the air.
-- Robi
I've got version 2 of this mouse (what's changed? The shape has been further refined in subtle details based) and while it definitely provides relief - I've tried various mice and trackballs over the years - it completely freezes once or twice a week and has to be re-plugged into the computer's USB port to unwedge it. This is a minor problem with a trivial workaround, but I've never had any pointing device that didn't keep working all the time...
I have been mousing for 20+ years. I never had hand-wrist problems, but I do have TOS (Thoracic Outlet Syndrome) on my right side. I have now switched to left hand mouse usage, it definitely gets worse when I revert to right hand mouse.
In my opinion this would make it worse by needing more movements of the arm/shoulder to mouse where right now a lot of it is wrist fingertip action.
Also my hand is already close to neutral when I mouse with a conventional mouse, it is about 45 degrees with the pinky down and touching the mouse surface, this is a very comfortable angle.
Right now the page linked is but a MySQL error. Incredible, every other time I get an error message instead of a page, it is a MySQL or MS SQL Server DB error. Rarely it is an application error, or from some other SGBD.
Granted MySQL is more popular, but still...
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
When using one, your thumb doesn't come close to "pointing straight up". (It doesn't when you shake someone's hand, either.)
Oh, wait, you've never used one, so you don't know what you're talking about. I get it. Never mind, pretend I didn't say anything, because obviously your un-informed opinion is far more important and accurate than all the years I've been using Evoluent sideways mice.
DB function failed with error number 1194 Table 'mos_session' is marked as crashed and should be repaired SQL=SELECT session_id FROM mos_session WHERE session_id=MD5('c24915053b9c853fc1772dd0c1366e02')
SQL =
SELECT session_id FROM mos_session WHERE session_id=MD5('c24915053b9c853fc1772dd0c1366e02')
And I know how to fix the above. It's a bad index and all they need to do is a
REPAIR TABLE mos_session;
The "product" has been around for YEARS (Note that they're on version 3. I guess the other two versions must have sold as well, or they'd be out of business by now.), and it works. All of my mouse-hand issues went away literally the *day* I started using it. I use a V2 at home, I have my old V1 at work, and my wife just bought a V2 for her work, because her wrist started to hurt by the end of the day. Her problems went away as well. I push it to everyone I know, because it works.
I don't know what your difficulty is with accepting the fact, but this *is* a real live working solution to a real problem, and it works just like they say on the website, arm position and everything. Not to mention that it's a quality mouse, in my experience.
Until you try it, and actually see how your hand and arm interact with the mouse, you have little accurate information to add to this discussion. Laying your arm on the desktop and pontificating about how you *think* it works isn't very helpful.
I bought one for an co-worker here but she couldn't use it because she can't move arms too much so she is using a trackball device so now I'm using it on one my systems. I like it because it saves space and it does allow arm relax. The only problem I saw was it need some contrasting materials to make the optical sensor work properly. I had a very plain white desk and Evoluent 2 didn't track properly so I needed to get some contrasting material, standard mouse pad worked, to get the Evoluent 2 to track properly.
It looks interesting but it seems like it would be hard to lift and reposition the mouse without pressing the buttons. With a conventional mouse you can use a pincer grip of the thumb and pinky to lift the mouse up. Here you have sloping sides and a pinky button to make that much more difficult.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
According to your logic, the most ergonomic position is for my body to be lying in a heap on the floor, because that's what happens when I relax ALL of the muscles in my body. Bruised and effluent, because I accidentally released my sphincter too.
Actually, if I could use the computer while lying in a random heap on the floor, I think I would.
postmodernsideshow.com
Enablemart - This seems to be a third party seller but I've yet to find out who makes all the equipment they sell
3M Ergonomic Products - Notable is the Ergonomic Mouse that looks kind of like a joystick
Kinesis Corporation - Another third party place that sells ergonomic items (they have chairs also)
Perific - Their main product is the Wireless Dual Mouse
Evoluent - They are known for the VerticalMouse
Contour Design - Best known for the RollerMouse and the PerfitMouse (Contour Mouse)
Combimouse - Combination Keyboard and Mouse
Adesso - They make a lot of products
Aerobic Mouse - Looks a lot like the VerticalMouse except it has a plastic area to hold your hand
Nohands Mouse - Control your mouse with your feet
Zero Tension Mouse - seems like a mix between the VerticalMouse and 3M's Ergonomic Mouse
It looks like this mouse is made out of the same cheap plastic as every other mouse.
Can I get that material in a sofa, or maybe in some flashy evening-wear? After all, if this mouse is the latest, greatest thing, then I want to have it all over my house. I'll gladly replace oriental rugs and leather with plastic if that's what it takes to stay current.
Oh wait, mice are disposable. I buy a new one every week. OK, now it makes sense.
Last year, I was experiencing significant pain in my mouse hand. After purchasing the VerticalMouse 2 and using it for a month, the pain was gone. I know it sounds like I'm touting some miracle cure, but the results were nearly that. As far as the above topic of gross vs. fine motor control, I haven't noticed any difference when doing detailed nit-picky work in Photoshop when compared to a traditional mouse.
I actually have an Evoluent VerticalMouse3. I got it because I suffer from tendonitis.
I switch back and forth between the VM3 and a Contour Perfit (optical) mouse because I find that both tend to relieve tension in one area (e.g., the radial nerve) but cause tension in another (e.g., the palm, or the back of the hand).
For the Contour Perfit, there are different sizes and different models for right vs. left-handed use (I use a large right-handed one). They're designed so that your whole hand rests on the mouse, in a "neutral" position (halfway between full flexion and full extension).
I think I like the Contour mouse a little better. I find with the VM3, despite the (very slight) lip at the bottom, my hand still tends to drag on the mousepad.
The scroll wheel, on pretty much any mouse I've tried, is a major culprit for repetitive stress injury. But the function is just too useful to give up!
Probably a bigger problem is the one discovered by rehtonAesoohC (parent poster): fine mouse movements are very difficult to achieve when using your whole arm rather than your fingers. Those larger muscles just lack the precision of our fingers, which is why I often find myself using the Contour mouse inappropriately, with my fingertips touching the mouse and rest of the hand arched up above it rather than laying flat. I've developed a few little tricks to get back some precision, like incorporating a kind of wrist wiggle to move the mouse left and right in a fan-like motion and get the mouse pointer to home in on a specific little point. But that can lead to wrist pain if overdone, and I think especially gives me pain along the radial nerve when using VM3
At any rate, I'm glad to see other recommendations from Slashdotters, and may try a few more mice. Don't overlook the possibility of using several mice and switching between them at times.
To help both keyboard and mouse positioning, I use the Imak SmartGlove. I play games with it as well. At first, I did not feel too much of a difference, but now I feel uncomfortable if I use the keyboard and mouse without them. I think it really helps.
I use trackballs, and many times I find myself trying to hold them vertically to ease the pain on my hands. I plan to try a vertical mouse (or vertical trackball if I can find one) soon. As a side note, if you suffer from pain on your hands you should use an ergonomic keyboard as well, preferably one with Dvorak layout. I use TypeMatrix keyboards and they have helped my hands a lot.
After all, old habits die hard.
Thanks a lot. The fourth movie's not even out yet, and you reveal the fifth movie's title, you insensitive clod.
The last time I used an "ergonomic" mouse, it caused me problems after 2-3 months. I switched to an el-cheapo ($30) Microsoft mouse and my problems went away instantly.
Has anyone conducted any studies that confirm/deny that this mouse is more ergonomic then my standard-faire Microsoft mouse? I'd like to know what percentage of people have wrist problems after using this mouse for 3, 6, 9, and 12 months. Just because the mouse is a funky shape doesn't mean it's any better.
No, I will not work for your startup
..... cured with the passing of time. You know what is a problem with bad positions when sitting? Very often it *feels* very comfortable.
Why to pay attention to ergonomic specialists, doctors, etc. regarding how to work in a desk if *I* know better?
Good luck to your back, it is going to need it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The relaxed natural position of the palm is parallel to your body, when you raise the arm bending 90degress, the palm remains parallel to your body, i.e. 90 degrees against the desk. If that is not the case you are either rotating unconsciously your wrist or you have a major anomaly in how your wrist is built....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.