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Torvalds on Linux and Microsoft
Sniper223 writes with a link to an interview on the Network World site with Linus Torvalds. Linus goes through the usual spiel about stuff like why he released the Linux OS in the first place, and how the future is open source. He also has some interesting commentary on the Microsoft/Novell deal: "I actually thought that whole discussion was interesting, not because of any Novell versus MS issues at all, but because all the people talking about them so clearly showed their own biases. The actual partnership itself seemed pretty much a nonissue to me, and not nearly as interesting as the reaction it got from people, and how it was reported ... I don't actually personally think the Novell-MS agreement kind of thing matters all that much in the end, but it's interesting to see the signs that the sides are at least talking to each other. I don't know what the end result will be, but I think it would be healthier for everybody if there wasn't the kind of rabid hatred on both sides. Some people get a bit too excited about MS, I think. I don't think they are that interesting." An interesting contrast to our earlier conversation.
Well that's news to me. It's irritating when Linus is given all the credit for the operating system. He made the kernel, at the very least you generally need the GNU tool chain to have something usable, plus a couple of other little things.
Free software, free thought, free society.
That is what a discussion is. A bunch of people giving their opinions, or "biases" as Linus calls them.
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Some people get a bit too excited about MS, I think. I don't think they are that interesting.
"When Microsoft writes an application for Linux, I've Won." - Linus Torvalds
if only it was a joke, then again any site called *world.com usually is
c gi?pagetosend=/export/home/httpd/linuxworld/news/2 007/080907-torvalds-on-linux-ms-softwares.html&pag ename=/news/2007/080907-torvalds-on-linux-ms-softw ares.html&pageurl=http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2 007/080907-torvalds-on-linux-ms-softwares.html&sit e=lw_general
http://www.linuxworld.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x_linux.
"I think it would be healthier for everybody if there wasn't the kind of rabid hatred on both sides. Some people get a bit too excited about MS, I think."
And here we have a perfect example of why Microsoft has spent the last couple of decades utterly dominating their two main markets:
1) Competitors who want to prove to the world that 'reasonable guys' and forever falling all over each other with the same tired old "maybe Microsoft isn't ALWAYS evil" BS
2) Microsoft execs with a laser tight focus to destroy all that lie in their path and merciless action against any who threaten their marketshare and cashcows
Apple(in the desktop OS market), Linux, the myriad failed office software vendors, Microsoft doesn't hate you, they DESPISE your weakness. Reminds me of that Mars Attacks! movie where the humans are open source developers and Microsoft are the Martians, except grandma's record collection isn't there to save you.
It is crap like Linus just spewed that lets things like the Mono fiasco happen to the open source world.
News at 11.
How we know is more important than what we know.
The one thing he's known for, the Linux kernel, isn't something I particularly like (BSD--more liberal license, Windows--better desktop, Linux? I only use it because of work); but I tend to agree with him on a lot of things. That he would downplay the controversy, and point out that it only illustrates bias doesn't surprise me. He seems to have a gift for cooling things down, for steering clear of immature games and sticking to a clear analysis of the situation.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
you like Linus, he is right that the hate for hate's sake between some (and I stress some) Linux and MS users helps nothing. Beyond that, as he is the creator of the kernel, I see him as a parent watching his kid grow up to be something he didn't envision or desire for it. He needs to learn to let go, Linux now belongs to the community.
"That is what a discussion is. A bunch of people giving their opinions, or "biases" as Linus calls them."
Interesting how "facts" get left out of that definition.
...which is just not helpful.
Let's see them for what they are: Organised crime. One day justice will be done, Microsoft will be obliterated and the world will be a better place for it.
you had me at #!
He also talked about "World Domination" as well. Are you all going to twist that as well?
[Linus has a gift for] steering clear of immature games and sticking to a clear analysis of the situation.
Linus's analyses are usually clear, indeed, but almost always short-sighted. He doesn't seem to notice anything beyond the end of his nose, and so doesn't recognize the potential for bad things to happen as a result of people being bad.
It was so with BitKeeper. It was so with TiVO. It is so with Microsoft.
Linus treats everyone as if they were fair, generous, and cooperative. Unfortunately the real world is not like that. It's full of deceitful, self-serving, and non-cooperative people and companies who talk nice but do evil.
If all of FOSS and not just the Linux kernel were in Linus's hands, we'd be in trouble. Fortunately almost nobody else in the community is that naive.
Linus's genius is in design and coding (and in herding cats). It most definitely is not in foresight.
Both sides are as bad as each other. Change the world? The truth is that the GPL mob have become the enemy. If you can't see that you're blind or don't have the guts to admit it. Microsoft worships the almight dollar. Slashdot worships Stallman. Run through the patent and copyright routine that follows on from that, whether it's for and against, and you wind up in the same shithole. The world's been like this since before man and, most likely, will be that way after we're gone. It's how things are built. Don't blame me, I didn't make the world.
Can't say I care anymore. I've got burned trying to help people out or encourage them. People don't listen or get their panties in a twist. It's difficult but I'm really inclined to just shrug and let people get on with it. People don't listen or give a damn, and only seem to care when things hurt them. Leave them alone with reality for long enough and they'll choke themselves or get a clue. It may sound cold and callous but it saves me hassle. While people fight among themselves I get more shit done.
Repent and ye shall inherit the earth? There's a lot of truth in that. Try it, sometime.
He probably hit on the topics that needed to be public most, for him, and the project. He is very blunt. He probably wants to concentrate on Linux and he's probably tired of people coming to him with fud. I don't think he is scared to say what he feels, he just wants to use his time on what he loves, family and programming.
So true.
Hope is the currency of fools
MS may be much and some of their tactics aren't what's considered fair competition, but they are not criminals. A criminal is by definition someone who breaks the law. Umm... well, they made some decisions that weren't completely in sync with some monopoly laws in some countries, but that doesn't make them criminals. It's not like they've done anything that hasn't been done before. It's been quite common e.g. to make retailers sell only your product if they want to sell it, or at least offer them more favorable conditions if they do.
Some of their tactics smell a bit like extortion, but putting MS into the organized crime corner goes a bit too far.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I've never met anyone that was excited about windows. Open source and windows are going to live side-by-side ?
If you look at the main sections to the left. There is no "windows" or "microsoft" section.
GNU/Linux comes in so many flavours you can get a *nix OS for pretty much anything.
I still use windows, I use *nix's aswell.
But I've always hated windows.
it's half of the system , ... e.g. they're 50% over the red line anyways
Now that Linus doesn't find Microsoft bashing 'cool' and 'fun', does this mean there's no life's purpose for all the slashdot nerds? What will they do?
"I've never met anyone that was excited about windows. "
And I've never met a double-jointed woman. Doesn't mean they don't exist.
"If you look at the main sections to the left. There is no "windows" or "microsoft" section."
There's no "Hurd" or "BSD" section either. So what's your point?
Know the battles that need to be fought and disregard the rest. It's a good way to lose precious energy and resources if you fight against everything without knowing what you are really fighting for.
With whom?
What?
You mean Linus isnt a rabid MS-hating fanboy? I feel so disillusioned.
In all seriousness though it is nice to hear someone who actually matters in the open source community coming out against fud that comes from his own 'side'. (as if open source was about taking sides) The zealots who spread fud on the pro-linux side get way too much publicity and really make everyone associated with them look foolish.
Linux users may or may not hate MS, but for 99% (pretty much everyone who doesn't dev software or hardware for a living) of MS users, asking them how they feel about Linux would probably garner a response like:
Linux? What the hell is Linux?
Why should we care about what you think about it, Linus?
I'm so tired of Linus Torvalds flapping his lips in the media about things he isn't qualified to talk about. He's a technical lead for a systems programming project---not a lawyer, not an economist, and not a visionary. Furthermore, he's one of those types of people who thinks that because something isn't important to him, it's objectively unimportant, and anyone who disagrees is "biased" or "idealistic".
He'd be wiser to learn when to shut his mouth.
http://outcampaign.org/
1. And it came to pass that the Prophet, Holiness and Peace be upon him, did rise up in the morning and despaired.
2. Behold, a vision I have had, he spoke.
3. God has shown me a terrible vision of heretics and wolves amongst the fold, those who deny his Holy Word the Third GPL.
4. And the Prophet went out unto the People of GNU and raise up his hand from the holiness of his loins, for he had been chatting, and said, I declare a holy fudwah upon the heretic Linus. From this point hence, he shall suffer the wrath of the /. masses.
5. And it came to pass that they rose up, worshiping his glory, and put on their AC guises and did post great numbers of words.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Microsoft is credited with breaking anti-trust law and this is not just one case...
The Rieser (sp?) file system creator is credited with what, besides the file system? Killing his wife?
I think it shows Linus's bias to dismiss the illegal activities of Microsoft and to hide it by saying it is the rest of us showing bias.
Linus is not the only one outside of Microsoft doing kernel work, there are plenty others. BSD flavors, BeOS, ReactOS, AROS, Dragonfly (kernel changed enough to not really be tagged with BSD flavoring), Minix, MacOSX, etc...
For those who want to credit Linus with the kernel being used by a lot of Free Software, the fact is that had Linus not done so then somebody else would have, perhaps even the Hurd would have had better development and focus. And not to forget that the same Free Software is being run on other systems with kernels created by others.
If there is anything to realize here it is that people moved away from Microsoft for any number of reasons, I have my own user frustration related reasons and have additional frustration with the industry as a whole. When something better comes along I will move to it, as will others too. It might just be DragonFly.
would take about 2 the top. Or were, One common goal - EFNet servers. ASSOCIATION OF Website Third, you private sex party are a pathetic IS DYING LIKE THE in A head spinning fucking numbers, the same operation
"Microsoft simply isn't interesting to me."
"I don't actually personally think the Novell-MS agreement kind of thing matters all that much in the end"
"Some people get a bit too excited about MS, I think. I don't think they are that interesting."
Why anyone thinks this means he's pro-MS beats the hell out of me.
Whenever Linus gives his two cents about these kinds of things, his analysis always seems somewhat hollow and short-sighted. He often times sounds like he's just flapping his gums about something he doesn't understand, even though he may very well understand whatever it is in its entirety.
Linus has played a recognizable role in global technology and he's a person of importance, but I think he should focus less on press and more on his next great projects. Much like said above, he's not an analyst, he's a programmer.
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
Hans Reiser has been convicted of nothing and that is a personal case that has nothing to do with the software world. That case is as wierd as a case can get so where do you get off assuming that he is guilty? How can you compare that to the plethora of convictions that M$ have received for unethical business practices around the world? Are you dissapointed when an apple doesn't taste like an orange?
"A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
It's basicly "I'm over here doing Linux, and I'll keep improving Linux regardless of whatever Microsoft does or doesn't do." That's not just in relation to MS, but seems to be the general case with tivoized kernels, DRM, patents and everything else that's not about improving the code. It's like an athlete saying he's competing against the clock and himself, constantly improving regardless of whether he's far behind or far ahead of the competition.
Usually, that's a very healthy attitude. And if everyone was running their own race, it would be. But Microsoft has proven time and time again that if they can't provide a superior product, they throw all kinds of dirt on the competition. He might not care if Linux is competition to Microsoft or not, but Microsoft certainly does. That's not to say he should start fighting FUD with FUD, but it'd be nice if he showed that he at least understands the game being played.
Microsoft can not kill Linux the kernel, because of the GPL. But there are many ways to kill Linux the market, and Microsoft is an expert at it. Again, I think Linus doesn't care all too much about that, or assume that if only Linux gets good enough the other "distractions" won't matter. Well, I care that Linux can be a mainstream OS that can handle mainstream media, interact with Windows networks and protocols, use common document formats and in general function like a first class citizen. If it's a stunning good kernel too, that's good but it's no good being exceptional at everything but the things I want to do.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
"I live in a good-sized house, with a nice yard, with deer occasionally showing up and eating the roses (my wife likes the roses more, I like the deer more, so we don't really mind). I've got three kids, and I know I can pay for their education. What more do I need?"
...What more do I need?
In a culture dominated by the words "I need more", this question looks erroneously out of place. Greed is so commonplace that to see such an authentic lack of it is refreshing.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
you are so right. Hans's guilt or innocence has NOTHING to do with reiserfs.
Just more of Linus running his mouth.
Stop your sycophantic hero worship.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Knock it off!
Its about people and what people do. The Rieser file system is on hold as the legal system is crediting Hans with a crime, guilty or not, which will be decided in a court room (perhaps regardless of what ever really happened).
The point is, it is not unjust bias when one considers facts of criminal activities, it is caution.
In the case of Hans, it is fact that he has been charged with a crime and as such the software is on hold.
Linus dismissing the wrongs of Microsoft is even more wrong then those who doubt Hans, as MS has been found guilty and Hans has yet to be judged.
Need another example of the reaction of people to criminal activity stated..... Michael Jacksons trial or Bushes war on Iraq and the Dixie Chicks comment and reaction by the music industry.....
Careful of the media mouth of the beast of man....its rather convincing, right or wrong...
Now do you really want to distort the point and in the process say something about your bias?
Linus shows indifference towards the MS/Novell deal and he also disagress with the GPLv3, and he is free to do so, but he should see his own bias rather than claim he has none while placing judgement on the nature of others bias.
The TiVo is sitting on the dresser. It's the old one, the hobbyist has a newer one too. So he decides to try and get Linux to talk to the TiVo hardware by shoehorning. Lo and behold, he can get most of the hardware - the network ports, the hard drive (of course), and the video input hardware too after a bit of fiddling. The system it turns out is fairly easy to control.
... yet.
If it's possible, the hobbyist will try to do it, and why shouldn't he? After you get a shoe box at the shoe store, you can take it home and mark it up inside, cut holes in it, use it how you like. I see no moral or ethical difference between the shoe box and the TiVo. And I wonder if the TiVo company is worried about it, really. Every device can be used for evil, potentially, but I don't see bands of pirate TiVos marauding across the Internet
By our right of free expression and free exchange, given that no harm is done, once Linux kernels for TiVo exist, people must be free to share them with their friends. Let the chips fall where they may... call it an experiment.
If the hardware vendor is concerned he can attempt to prevent access by technical means - for example using an exotic processor architecture with elaborate fail-safe devices. Smart hobbyists will overcome the countermeasures inevitably. The manufacturer ought to accept such events gracefully.
I just don't see how courts would ever prosecute people for spawning shells on their household appliances. It sounds too much like the movie Brazil. (Damn, but that movie is prescient...)
.
-- thinkyhead software and media
I think Linus is just happy doing what he's doing. He didn't seek fame (or infamy). But if his focus *really* was servers with absolutely no biases we'd have a stable api allowing proprietary vendors to develop closed drivers for Linux servers and then more or less forget about them.
I don't know what your relationship with Linux is but I work professionally as a server admin for a mid-sized company. Proprietary driver updates with each kernel release is a major pain in the ass and often requires you use older kernels while you wait for your vendor (EMC/Oracle/etc) to release an updated module.
I'm not making a political statement here one way or the other. But as the benevolent dictator this is something he could make happen if the server market was his only concern.
Quack, quack.
In martial arts one must keep ones mind clear and focused, free of hatred and emotion. Open source ideology is about embracing freedom, not hating Microsoft. Sure Microsoft are currently a barrier to freedom and by no means should we embrace them like long lost children just because they say something or act a little enlightened. But by the same token we should not shoot friends in the head just because the deviate from our ideology.
By letting an irrational hatred of Microsoft sour the relationship between Novell and the community we face a danger that the newly confirmed copyright ownership Novell has in Unix will be used by them the same way SCO did. Instead of finding a way to educate Novell we have taken a extreme and non productive approach which will tend to alienate not only Novell but any other companies considering working with the open source community.
The fact is that there are many companies out there which may make deals with Microsoft for their own reasons. We cannot expect companies to make a black and white decision about what "side" they are on. IBM for example is acting in its own self interest amd while that self interest is in the interests of the community all is well. But lets not deceive ourselves that they would fight for open source to the bitter end. They would settle. They would make a deal if it meant survival.
Novell may have been in a similar situation, and while I don't like these deals being done its a reality for companies in a way that it isn't for individuals. Microsoft won't sue you for personal use of a patent without a license, but they will sue Red Hat into the ground given the chance. Red Hat may yet need to make a deal if Linux does end up infringing, even if the Linux community can remove the infringement in quick order.
In truth Microsoft is USING our hatred against us. Already the Novell deal may have driven a wedge in the open source community between GPL 2 and GPL 3. Once again we see reactionary actions being driven by Microsoft to their advantage. Linus sees that hating Microsoft is no way forward. We need to examine, evalaute and develop strategies which allow us to define the ball game. Microsoft won when they turned the conversation to Total Cost of Ownership. They won when they got CEO's concerned about legal issues around Linux.
To win we must be more clever, less reactionary, and keep a clear head with a focus on what important; bringing open source to the world.
I was more bothered by misspelling "certainly". People find fault and push agendas that fall in line with their habits and prejudices. You don't need to build a multi-billion worth operating system, spray millions of comments on Slashdot, or build universities when so little contains so much. The Tao mocks us both. Who is the guru? Who is the moron? I suppose, this depends on your point of view. Only the Tao really knows.
Stop being logical. It's got a lot of the fanboys of that big unkempt hairy guy upset.
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
Bias.
Let's call TS the Typical Slashdotter.
TS knows about petrol companies misdeeds but uses its gas powered car anyway. TS knows Nike and others uses underpaid minor's work for their own profit but buys its shoes anyway. TS knows about Monsanto and Pfizer experiments and, basically, he couldn't care less about those. No need to go on with the rest.
But hey! MS has been credited with breaking anti-trust law!!! SOOOO EEEVIIIILLLLL.....
Beside, Intel has broken them too but TS doesn't care.
Linus doesn't see the threat from DRM and he doesn't see the threat from Microsoft. That's fine and he's lucky there's an entire community to fight these battles for him, otherwise his kernel would be rapidly reduced to just another commercial venture. There are always those looking to steal or destroy what you build, it's unbelievably Naïve not to see that, even if you choose not acknowledge it publicly.
Agreed. All hail RMS!
"Some people get a bit too excited about MS"
Same thing can be applied to the Linux vs BSD debate, shown by the debates followed the report on systrace.
Credit is at best a secondary concern. The real issue here is the technical lead of this OS's kernel gets credit for the movement but doesn't care about your freedoms as much as you might wish. And you can't do anything about it except talk about the guy who's really been fighting for you all along. I find myself almost wishing for a Bitkeeper-like debacle this time involving the GPLv3.
...says the guy who is not wasting his time solving MS shit. We who have to work with it know better.
"Microsoft is not the "necessary evil" of the computing industry. I fervently believe that the industry has been stifled in the long run because of what Microsoft has done in being predatory and killing off competition while being a monopoly." - by HermMunster (972336) on Saturday August 11, @11:59PM (#20200179)
By them BUILDING A BETTER MOUSETRAP? That IS how they did it, after all... a more flexible, versatile, ubiquitous presence, with great OS products (especially since 2000/XP/Server 2003 & lately, VISTA, which is getting GOOD feedback on performance improvements in the next URL below, mind you):
http://apcmag.com/6929/vista_sp1_in_depth
"It used its power in a criminal way and has created a path down which we may never be able to recover. The hopes are that we can branch and have a 50-50 choice in software or even a 30-30-30. But being 90-10 is not the way to go for any industry." - by HermMunster (972336) on Saturday August 11, @11:59PM (#20200179)
See my subject line/title of my reply here to you again, please... some criminal activity! The world's made a choice & that's to use the BEST OVERALL SOLUTION FOR HOME & BUSINESS - Windows!
(95% of the world's PC's use it from the home up to the business LAN/WAN environs, for every conceivable purpose, after all!)
AND, despite what "nerds/geeks" may think?
People look around, & see different things, & make their choices & ARE NOT STUPID: They go with what just works, & with the most peripheral hardware & document formats (& again, that's Windows!)
"Only through competition with lots of car companies have we been able to produce some exceptional cars that are praised world-wide. Having only one software company essentially stifles all that." -
Man, the "hacker/cracker" types out there CREATE IMPROVEMENT in this field, for one thing, so they don't let MS "just sit there & not innovate", because in a BIG WAY, I feel they "force them to", & this works out in the long haul, excellently - with they acting as MS' biggest & best security researchers!
PLUS, I have watched Windows become FAR MORE SECURE & STABLE than it ever was in the Win9x days & prior...
----
1.) Partially due to better development techniques in use now & better tools for it, ala:
E.G. #1 - CODE AUDITING THE DEFCON WAY:
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158231&cid= 13257227
----
2.) Partially because of security ideas & techniques becoming stronger, not only @ the perimeter defenses & server levels, but also @ the network client/single user PC level, ala:
E.G. #2 - APK "12 step program" 4 a secure Windows NT-based OS (2000/XP/Server 2003/VISTA):
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?s=3e7 8ea52bc119fb94a59e51abf7c47a5&p=375355#post375355
----
3.) Lastly/IN BIG "Partially" because of Microsoft initiating their "feedback" on crashdump analysis as well, via remote communications back to their servers with that info. & issuing patches via "Windows Update" &/or corporate homepages for direct downloads for multiuser scenarios distribution by network admins/engineers/techs.
"The good thing is that in the short and long term IP will eventually begin to stifle Microsoft because clearly their employees can only produce so much IP each year" - by HermMunster (972336) on Saturday August 11, @11:59PM (#20200179)
Not with the "hacker/cracker/phisher" types out there... they FORCE change, due to holes they find... improvements in the product result. See the above where I stated this, for examples thereof...
"The rest of the industry is producing a
The GNU system started a decade before Linus wrote the first version of his kernel.
Also, the GNU system was widely used with proprietary kernels by that time. In fact, most Unix systems were based on the GNU userland because of their quality.
And GNU already had a kernel at the pipeline when Linux was released. And just a few years later it was as functional as Linux 0.1. Linux just being out a little earlier gained the advantaje of having all developers working on it, but things probably wouldn't be much different if that didn't happen.
Rethinking email
only an Anonymous Coward would presume to speek for the typical ST.
Additionally and in consideration of the unique tool computers are, suppression of human advancement with computer technology is by far more evil than even suppression of honest observation (re: catholic church and the suppression of galileos observations).
It is certainly a pleasure to see *somebody* who still knows what "FUD" means. I clicked on your response, expecting to find a link to a "microsoft sucks", but you actually limited yourself to a real example of Linux FUD.
Unfortunately far too many people seem today to think FUD means "lie", or even "anything negative said about the competition".
In fact FUD could be perfectly truthful or a fabrication. What it means is spinning some fact (or falsehood) into *fear*, where you say "yea that might seem ok, but just maybe, in the future, it could change into this horribly contrived scenario that I will now state...". Saying anything bad about *right now*, whether it is true or false, is NOT "FUD".
If you limit to true examples of FUD, Microsoft is way ahead in number of statements. In particular almost everything they say about the GPL is FUD, and the patent stuff is FUD. I don't think most of what they say about Linux itself is FUD, even the cost arguments, as they typically just state the immediate cost of changing from Windows to Linux (obviously non-zero), rather than any kind of prediction of future costs, which would be FUD. Sometimes they insert the cost of switching back from Linux to Windows as a cost of using Linux, that just maybe is FUD.
Best example I think of FUD on the Linux side is the dire warnings about what DRM will do. It probably is not going to be anywhere near as bad as stated, worst is that it probably means you have to buy Windows and new hardware if you want to watch any popular entertainment. Your example is also quite good, saying that this feature of Windows could be used for evil purposes, is certainly FUD as well.
Actually, you do get some pretty militant Buddhists in Sri Lanka. And a few years ago there were, well, difficulties with Sikh militants in the Golden temple in Amritsar. I'm not here to criticise Sikhs or followers of the Buddha - I'm just pointing out that pretty much any cause attracts some militant folk, somewhere. For goodness sake, you get holy wars about the right source code editor, or the correct place to put curly brackets in C.
It's human nature!
Paul "Say no to feeping creaturism"
"The actual partnership itself seemed pretty much a nonissue to me, and not nearly as interesting as the reaction it got from people, and how it was reported ... I don't actually personally think the Novell-MS agreement kind of thing matters all that much in the end..."
Right on, Linus. It was a tempest in a teapot, mostly stirred up by FSF fanatics who wouldn't think twice about sinking the second most important Linux distro just to prove they're more "moral" than everybody else.
I kinda disagree about Microsoft not being "interesting", though. I understand what Linus is saying because he's focused on his technology and isn't interested in Microsoft. So for him, they're not interesting. Plus, he's confident OSS is the way to go and thus will inevitably take over. I think Microsoft are assholes and a major impediment to improving computer use worldwide - which makes them "interesting" at least.
Which is not to say that Linux wouldn't be the impediment if the market share were reversed - but at least Linux is making improvements. Vista ain't an improvement to Windows and definitely isn't an improvement in the OS space.
In the end, though, we need a serious reevaluation of how software is developed. Because right now EVERYTHING IS CRAP - including Linux. But Linux is at least FREE crap.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
"If you're not outraged [about the harm MS is doing to society] then you're not paying attention."
Get the facts. Start here...
you had me at #!
BSD is about the spread of ideas. GPL is about the spread of code.
Perhaps you need to sit back and realize "hey, does he have a point? Am I just making myself look like an unemployable zealot toolbag?"
Something to ponder, Fanboy.
Dare I ask whether or not you think "sycophantic hero worship" of Stallman is acceptable? Chances are it's never even dawned on you at all...in fact, if you're like a lot of people, you probably worship the ground Stallman walks on without paying a lot of attention to the fact that you do.
I mean, it's just so completely normal to mindlessly idolise Stallman, (but nobody else, of course) that why on Earth would you bother to reflect on it at all? It's a lot like questioning why the Sun comes up in the morning. Pointless, and entirely unthinkable.
Good grief, there are some mentally diseased freaks among the Linux users of Slashdot.
;-)
Sometimes when a Linux related story comes up, and I read some of the replies, I honestly find myself wondering...Who the hell left the basement door unlocked?
Yes, you may dare ask. Sycophantic hero worship of any person is wrong. Period.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Haha. Read my reply to the previous post.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
First? See my subject-line above... Then, go ESPECIALLY here:
e shold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20203061
/., site that specializes in SECURITY TOPICS...
i ntsCISToolResult84735.jpg
(That's in the "hardening linux" topic today, mind you)...
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267599&thr
OK?
Challenge to ANY *NIX User (FreeBSD, Linux variants, Solaris) - Beat the score I can obtain using Windows, of 84.735/100!
(It was done on a multiplatform test for security called CIS TOOL that runs on numerous *NIX's & Windows NT-based OS of modern varieties(such as what I use, Windows Server 2003 SP #2 fully custom hardened for security))
CIS TOOL has been recognized by SANS as a legitmate program, not malware etc. & that website's respected enough & often referred to in reports here @
So, instead of these "mod downs" in my posts, when I see Linux "F.U.D." great spread around, & I challenge someone to show me their "(Insert *NIX variant here) is more secure than Windows is" IS TRUE... beat my score, that's all.
APK
P.S.=> (Visible proof goes a LONG ways, such as this below)
http://img.techpowerup.org/070618/APK14SecurityPo
apk
And you, sir, are a first class asshole for comparing the Microsoft with the victims of racism.
There was a major release of emacs (19? something in the mid 90's) in which "linux" had been replaced with "lignux" in the shipped version. leading to the big commotion.
hawk
You might also want to check out Linus' latest interview on openITis.com ahref=http://www.openitis.com/openitis/comment_art icles.php?cpath=25&a_id=306%23rel=url2html-4727htt p://www.openitis.com/openitis/comment_articles.php ?cpath=25&a_id=306#> He answers 35 questions put forth by the Indian FOSS community. Super questions, BRILLIANT answers. The interview ROCKS!