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Copier Auto-Translates Japanese to English

StCredZero writes "Wild. Fuji has created a photocopier that automatically translates documents from Japanese to English. That's pretty nuts. Apparently, the copier can figure out what sections are text, OCR the text, send it to a translation engine, and put the english back into place."

244 comments

  1. All the cartoon drawings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Turn into actual pictures of people, too! Amazing!

    1. Re:All the cartoon drawings... by rde · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ooh, I hope not. If it does, then it means that it's got a real prediliction towards anime. That could produce some interesting translations, such as...

      Dear Sir,
      Your opponent is me! With regard to your memo dated 14th inst., I'll never forgive you, vampire bastard! Super ultra science business meeting, engage!
      Noooooooooooooooo!

      Yours faithfully,
      Bob Morton
      Chief Gundam Officer

    2. Re:All the cartoon drawings... by The+Spoonman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or..."all your base are belong to us. Make your plan."

      This copier thing sucks, though. It eliminates my ability to use an analogy that's near and dear to my heart. When I build a server, I use a base image. I've had many, many people tell me stupid things like "Oh, I don't use images. Sometimes when you use images, things get all out of sync and they're not consistent." Uh, yeah they are, idiot. That's the whole point of using an image. When I build a new server, the only thing that differs between it and the master image is the name and IP address. My statement to them is "Saying machines come out inconsistent when you use images is like saying I took a document with words on it in English, put it on the copier, made ten copies and three of them came out in French." Now that we can actually do that (or will when they put an English-French translation module into my copier) what am I going to tell these twits!?

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
  2. Great! by FoolsGold · · Score: 0

    I suppose the next version of this printer will be able to convert tentacle porn to... Oh God! /puke

    1. Re:Great! by Divebus · · Score: 4, Funny

      They probably used it to translate the instruction manual into Engrish.

      --

      Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
    2. Re:Great! by megaditto · · Score: 1, Troll

      If I am in a rush, I would much rather have the "Engrish" translation than a bunch of Chapanese hyroglighic gobbledeegook.

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    3. Re:Great! by PsamtikNerd · · Score: 5, Funny

      They did something like this with a Japanese car manual a long time ago; it ended up something like: "If a passenger of foot should obstacle your passage, tootle the horn. Tootle him melodiously at first, but if he continues obstacles your passage, then tootle him with vigor."

    4. Re:Great! by scottrocket · · Score: 1

      hahaha-where are my mod points when I need them! :)

    5. Re:Great! by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded 'troll'? He's perfectly right, machine translation might not be sufficient for business transactions and classy conversation, but when you just want to know enough about what the hell those squiggly drawings mean to determine the subject matter, this would be perfect! Hell, usually a datasheet is readable after being machine translated, even if the grammar IS a little funky.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    6. Re:Great! by laejoh · · Score: 0

      Eh, I knew vigor was evil!!!

    7. Re:Great! by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      If only people listened to that advice. We could certainly do with some more melodious tootling in the streets...

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    8. Re:Great! by Aladrin · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Because he put in as many derogatory terms as he could think of. If he'd simply stated it like you had (minus 'squiggly drawings') he'd probably have gotten 'insightful' instead.

      I'm know I've used online translation services when I absolutely needed to know what something said and there was no native speaker around. In fact, since native speakers are generally unsure of exact translations (despite speaking both languages fluently) I find the poor translations online better than 'well, it means this, but there's this connotation and...' ... Ugh. I don't care about all that when I'm in a hurry, I just wanted to know it said 'Stick the bulb in the socket and spin clockwise.' (Not a real example. Heh.)

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    9. Re:Great! by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I guess derogatory is in the eye of the beholder - I definitely didn't mean anything bad by the 'squiggly lines' comment, that's just what most foreign alphabets look like to me. I can read Normal (English). I recognize, but can't read, Englishy Things (anything using a basic Latin alphabet), Calculus (Greek), Backwards Letters LOL (Russian/Cyrillic), Sideways Funny Pictures (heiroglyphics), Snail Poo (any of a number of languages from the Middle East), Honda Accord Stickers (Japanese), and Funny Stick People (Chinese). Then there's all the bazillion others that look like either the last two, or don't. I'd fully expect Englishy Things to look like random squiggles or Backwards Russian or something to someone who can't decipher Latin-esque alphabets.

      Good point about the TMI factor when getting a human to translate. Nothing worse than "It means, let me see... you have to add the seasoning in step 5. Or wait, that could be 'your wife is hot' depending on context. It's also vaguely insulting." when all you want to know is whether to put the freakin' seasoning or boiling water in first. :)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    10. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wonder if the translation will be as strange as Babelfish's attempt to translate the Japanese edition of our favourite website?

    11. Re:Great! by mikael · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's the fun part of these automatic translators - put in perfectly good English, translate to a foreign language, and translate back to English. Good fun for a rainy afternoon.

      "Today is under construction... please do not be alarmed by the construction men hanging themselves from outside your balcony. We will take them down tomorrow..."

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    12. Re:Great! by rycamor · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall reading that in the book "The Mother Tongue", by Bill Bryson. Quite funny, except I believe that was not machine-translated. Actually, that makes it even funnier.

    13. Re:Great! by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      Don't to be when standing on the cable meeting room be racist! Humoristic jokes are hided in writtings formulas, not with facials. Person might remove barricade.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    14. Re:Great! by Rei · · Score: 1

      The thing is, you actually see stuff like this in Japan. A lot. Here are some pics from my last trip:

      "Sufficient" T-shirt
      "Variously Type" shirt
      Toyota "Noah" (they had all sorts of hilarious car names)
      "It Is Strong In Time..." pachinko parlor ad
      "Drunkard Eradication" shirt
      Giant sign on warehouse that simply says, "Boom"
      "It can enjoy the internet for 100 yen" (the screen also said a bunch of other funny stuff)
      "Tasteful coffee have you refresh and relux"
      Gap ripoff brand: "Eap"
      "Labio" brand "Heart Milk", whatever that is
      "Today Humming" car (tomorrow, not so much?)
      "Welcome To The Ice Shop..." (my favorite: "You are the crown of the head / Suffered direct hit / You will enjoy the cool breeze")
      Toyota "Royal Saloon" car (they spell "Salon" as "Saloon"; there's a whole line of "Saloon" vehicles)
      Crunky, the candy bar
      "Blendy" instant coffee and "Creap" creamer (Creap: The Creamy Powder!)
      "Let's enjoy smoking and keep manner" trashcan
      Guide of guest room telephone (an entire page of Engrish that I kindly corrected for them)
      "I love basket ball very very" graffiti

      And to think I didn't take pictures of most of the Engrish (would have taken way too long). Including the very first ticket I bought, in Osaka, which was a "No My Car Day" subway ticket.

      (change "small" to "large" in the URL for full-sized versions)

      --
      Kneel Before Christ!
    15. Re:Great! by IngramJames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's the fun part of these automatic translators

      Actually, this may not be automatic. Japanese and English are (I understand) two languages which differ on fundamental levels. It's not like trying to get to the station and using Franglais: "poor alley a la gar?" It's totally different. Translation is very, very hard, and words are used differently, too. My last job involved working from a spec written in Japanese, and translated by obviously intelligent Japanese people into English. It was... interesting... work, and involved asking the Tokyo office the same question multiple times in different ways, and then cross-referencing the answers, to see if they were consistent.

      Also, one of my favourite Japanese poems reads like this:
      "She said she would come
      At once, and so I waited
      Till the moon rose
      In the October dawn"

      That's from "One Hundred Poems From the Japanese"; I have a different translation in another book, which comes complete with an explanation of over 100 words (I kid you not) of all the different interpretations of the Japanese original, and why that specific translation was selected. It turns out that the original Japanese is written to be gender-ambiguous, and person-ambiguous. It's not "she" and "I", but something like "unresolved consious being" waiting for "mysterious, gender-ambiguous lover-person about whom I care".

      You can see why they settled for a snappier version for the poem translation.

      So while I love the meloncholy of the translation, I also feel a bit cheated by the fact that my language won't support the original concept, which sounds even better (when you make up words for those concepts and then replay them in slow-mo in your head).

      Also, it makes me very glad not to have to translate instruction manuals or business specs.

      --
      'No rational religion claims "supernatural" exists, that's an atheist slander.' - seen on slashdot.
    16. Re:Great! by IngramJames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, an interesting point from what I wrote above: I spent about 2 months (on and off) trying to work out what the Tokyo office wanted. Many emails, and quite a few phone calls were made. Then we sent out a guy to finish off the code (he'd started it in London, based on what we THOUGHT was required). He had my research and English spec (and his preliminary code) as the basis of what was going to be done, but basically, *he* sorted the final stuff out on the spot, in less than a week. It turned out that a lot of the stuff I thought was wrong, or not *quite* right.

      It emerged (and I *never* thought I'd say this, let alone write it) that having a coder on the spot, saying "if we use these rules, you'll get THIS result" turned out to be *more* efficient than getting the spec right beforehand. More accurate, as well.

      I simply could *not* nail down an accurate spec for 2 months, because of the problems of translation. The Tokyo guys didn't speak perfect English. I speak no Japanese. We were all intelligent business people; I'm a geek, and a Japanese guy was a geek. We couldn't do it. The only language which worked, at the end of the day, was the logical programming language which spat out results, and the analysis thereof.

      When we got to THAT level, the business people could finally say: "change this to Y", or "this value should be X". They had the Japanese technical spec, the system output, and the business knowledge. Only then could we resolve *every* issue.

      --
      'No rational religion claims "supernatural" exists, that's an atheist slander.' - seen on slashdot.
    17. Re:Great! by niteice · · Score: 1

      My motherboard manual has a similar segment. Overall it's well-written and seems to be professionally translated, but there's a strange warning relating to some advanced BIOS settings...

      "Incorrect using these features may cause your system broken. For power end-user use only."

      --
      ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
  3. Not very new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long has OCR software been around?

    All you do is have a scanner - it scans. OCR puts the text together. You run it through babelfish, through the text back on and you have it.

    Well... We all know how those translators work.

    OCR - OCR babelfish ...

    1. Re:Not very new by Tuqui · · Score: 1

      OCR for more than 5000 Kanji character could be very tricky. I would buy one when it can read handwriting.

    2. Re:Not very new by x86processor · · Score: 1

      "Fuji Xerox's secret lies in networking the unnamed copier to a dedicated translation server and combining this with algorithms that can distinguish between text, drawings and lines for maintaining page layouts."

      It is called outsourcing :)

    3. Re:Not very new by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Well... We all know how those translators work. Says the man who uses the worst one available as an example. Somehow I don't think you actually know how those work.
    4. Re:Not very new by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. He's completely right. When I read this article, I immediately thought of how easy it would be to do... so I think I'll do it tomorrow just to prove a point.

      Step 1: Find OCR engine for various character sets (there's plenty around, and I have a licensed one at work, but I'll try to find a free one)
      Step 2: Write code to receive scanned image from copier and pass it to the OCR engine.
      Step 3: Pass output of OCR to online translation tool.
      Step 4: Read translation from online translation tool.
      Step 5: Paste translation back in to correct positions over scanned image (the only part that's even REMOTELY tricky)
      Step 6: Submit back as a print job to the copier.
      Step 7: Profit! (sorry, had to say it)

      I really think this entire thing would take me less than a day to write. I could even add in some fancy stuff like interfacing with the copiers control panel to give fancy options that you can select at the time of scanning (courtesy of the fact that that's my day job)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
  4. third... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...post!

  5. Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They've been using this for years to translate instruction manuals.

    1. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, but true.

      (well, not the copier, but the translation system)

    2. Re:Not new by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      They've been using this for years to translate instruction manuals.

      You're not joking. It is completely worth your time to read this entire image.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    3. Re:Not new by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Funny

      Japanese instruction is to be helping and not to be laughful at.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    4. Re:Not new by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      What the hell do you do with an 'ether lord fucking net'?

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    5. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really not new. We had a copier 20 years ago that translated everything to Linear A.

    6. Re:Not new by badran · · Score: 0

      It can also do software.... All your base belong to us.

    7. Re:Not new by c3ph45 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Written by Miss Teen South Carolina.

    8. Re:Not new by chgros · · Score: 3, Funny

      What the hell do you do with an 'ether lord fucking net'?
      You glue the sex rubber mat.

    9. Re:Not new by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Well, I mean the packing list includes a "for glue the sex rubber mat" -- so it can't possibly be that bad, could it?

      Actually, ew. It's an ethernet switch. I really don't want to know what that bit's for!

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    10. Re:Not new by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Cables for the tie security to tightly. Convenience then you for believe more than!

      Absorb interpret tentacles the multiple of available for perhaps, orifice many maybe? ^_^

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    11. Re:Not new by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

      What the hell do you do with an 'ether lord fucking net'? If you don't know, then you don't need one.
      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    12. Re:Not new by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like this thing may do bandwidth throttling to maximize your downloading of pr0n.

      Now "Give cones change the machine" just sounds downright dirty. I'm sorry, but hardware doesn't turn me on in that way.

    13. Re:Not new by rycamor · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the funniest Engrish example I've ever read... lol.

      What's truly amazing is that most half-intelligent English speakers can still make sense of this. English is a robust context-sensitive language that can route around all kinds of damage. It ain't always pretty, but it survives an incredible amount of contortion by English (and quasi-English) speakers around the world.

    14. Re:Not new by hawk · · Score: 1

      Translating these clearly the importanter than raw Japanese.

      I was stunned to still find this stuff in the manual for the new Miata I bought last year; with the amount of Mazda owned by Ford, you'd at least think Ford could sent someone to read the manuals . . .

      hawk

    15. Re:Not new by Lost_In_Specs · · Score: 1
      Once my mother asked me to come over and install her new Aiwa home stereo. Of course being a control freak, she wouldn't let me just plug all the wires in. She wanted me to read the manual first. I humored her.


      The english was perfect, but a bit unprofessional. "Step one: Open the box. Since you are reading the manual, you have already opened the box. Proceed to step two."

      I told her to return it to the retailer.

    16. Re:Not new by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Living in Canada I see this a lot. The French (the ones from Quebec) don't understand you if you speak broken French (or don't speak their version of broken French), yet most of the English people I know have no problem understanding those who speak broken English.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  6. Manga and Anime by biocute · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Imagine if you upload manga scans to Flickr, and it automatically translates them to English.

    Imagine if you upload anime to YouTube, and it automatically includes an English subtitle.

    1. Re:Manga and Anime by Kandenshi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Automatic english subtitles for an anime? That's more of a job for speech recognition software(which is also being worked on, one of the profs in my department had a friend working on Japanese to English speech recognition/translation many years ago).

      This OCR based stuff would still be handy for automatically translating manga I suppose though.
      I know that there are a few things out there in Japanese that haven't been released in English yet I wouldn't mind.

    2. Re:Manga and Anime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine if you upload manga scans to Flickr, and it automatically translates them to English.

      Imagine if you upload anime to YouTube, and it automatically includes an English subtitle.

      Imagine having a real life.
    3. Re:Manga and Anime by dancingmad · · Score: 4, Informative

      Imagine if you upload anime to YouTube, and it automatically includes an English subtitle.

      Without the kanji, since a large number of Japanese words are homophones, I can't see this being practical in the near future. Text is different - with the kanji, it's not terribly difficult to look up the correct word and with kana grammar beside it, the task gets much easier. I can't see a machine understand a conversation in context, however.

      --
      "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
    4. Re:Manga and Anime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without the kanji, since a large number of Japanese words are homophones

      A lot of them are straight too. I've been to some of the bars, there can be some weird characters there.

    5. Re:Manga and Anime by Aetuneo · · Score: 1

      There are already subtitling groups which do this. I believe that that practice is called Digisubbing, or something along those lines. While it allows them to released subbed versions of episodes much faster, they tend to be lower quality, and would need to be polished a lot to get to a point where they would be chosen over the more traditional, manual method of translating and subbing. On the other hand, being able to get subs minutes after an episode is released would be very fun ...

      --
      Everything is subjective.
    6. Re:Manga and Anime by Gunslinger47 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, yeah, let me imagine that... given this concrete example. :)

      "Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga."

      Assuming you have a RAW of suitable quality for the machine to accurately read the furigana, the babelfish-esque translation for this would be:

      "True power of copying wheel eye... among these the power of variegation."

      Yeah... Anyway, there are literally pages of discussion on Wikipedia regarding this line because some human beings accidentally mistranslated this for the speed scanlations. For the record, the best translation I've seen is:

      "The Sharingan's true power. My, Uchiha Madara's power."

      Referring to himself in third-person sounds much less awkward in the original Japanese.

    7. Re:Manga and Anime by glwtta · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you upload manga scans to Flickr, and it automatically translates them to English.

      Truly, on that day my life would be complete!

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    8. Re:Manga and Anime by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you upload manga scans to Flickr, and it automatically translates them to English.

      I guess it's just a matter of time before Viz and other manga translators try to have this thing declared illegal. We can't have people importing their own manga from Japan, now can we ? After all, then Viz couldn't take years to translate it.

      I wonder how they're going to go about it. Maybe language barrier could be considered effective copy protection ? It's not that different from crypting schemes like the CSS, and has been used as a crypting scheme before.

      "When you're self-translating manga, you're supporting communism !"

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:Manga and Anime by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you upload Monty Python episodes to the photocopier and you get a Japanese guy in the tobacco shop asking about hovercrafts full of sushi.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    10. Re:Manga and Anime by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      This demonstrates all that is wrong with Wikipedia.

      So many subjects speedy-deleted as "not notable".

      Every. Single. Fucking. M:TG. Card. written about with pages of detail.

      Eastern European weightlifter? Sucks to be you, because unless some teenage boy in America who likes to look up girls skirts at cons and cosplay events has heard of you, you won't be "notable".

      Ever seen a character that's been on screen more than four frames in the most obscure of manga? He'll have a page so detailed that it'll be broken down in subsections.

      People need to learn that there's a difference between translation and transliteration. The transliteration is relatively concrete, from there translation can be deduced in context. It's not rocket science. It is an art, admittedly, but it is also amusing how many armchair Japanese experts there are online (not you, but in general).

    11. Re:Manga and Anime by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine why they wouldn't welcome their own obsolescence. People are generally so good at that.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    12. Re:Manga and Anime by Plutonite · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If it could do that(depending on what "understand" means), it could probably respond in context too, thus satisfying the Turing Test. Speaking of the turing test, Turing should have talked about a human benchmark for intelligence, because the test has been satisfied years ago when my blonde GF got custom automated messages after sitting at my fedora machine and attempting to log in. She thought she was "in messnger or something".

      Incorrect Password: PlEASE LEAVE NOW, BONEHEAD, YOUR FAILED ATTEMPT HAS BEEN LOGGED. I WILL CATCH YOU AND BOY WILL IT BE FUN

      LOGIN: lol you're a meanie. you wish LOOL. tell me your passssword you mean boy i want to check my aim

      She was a real darling, but I had to let her go.

    13. Re:Manga and Anime by liquidsin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ok, so imagine if your dvd player could translate the japanese subtitles to english...

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    14. Re:Manga and Anime by Eivind · · Score: 1

      So ?

      That's just because there's no limit to the number of pages a web-encyclopedia can have. If you *removed* the M:TG pages, this wouldn't somehow magically make those pages on east-european weightlifters appear.

      I agree it's a bad thing that some notable topics that aren't popular with techie types are under-covered. But I don't see a problem at all with "over-coverage" of trivialities that *are* popular with techie types. Who cares ? What is the *disadvantage* of having a page on every M:TG card ?

    15. Re:Manga and Anime by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      Imagine there was a program that could talk to you just like it was another human being, and you couldn't tell that it was a computer.

      Hey as long as we're imagining shit that doesn't exist and doesn't look like it's going to happen any time in the near future...

    16. Re:Manga and Anime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine if you upload porn and it removes the pixelated censorship areas

    17. Re:Manga and Anime by biocute · · Score: 1

      I cannot imagine porn images with white square areas, that's not porn.

    18. Re:Manga and Anime by joto · · Score: 1

      AOL, regarding wikipedia. Compare: Ronald Reagan: 23 PageDown(s), Leonid Brezhnev: 9 PageDown(s), List of Pokemon Characters: 24 PageDown(s) with links going to uncountably many subpages describing each characters in mind-boggling detail.

    19. Re:Manga and Anime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderator believes the in-context translation from one language to another is very different from in-context response finding in an Intelligent Agent conversing in one language. Truth is, if the "context" of an initial phrase can be understood in a particular language then it will not be overly difficult to formulate a conceptual description, and finally a reasonable response in the same language. We are only able to make "human" responses due to "human" understanding of the input phrase. Both are probably equivalent, and currently impossible. Moderator is a bonehead.

  7. I just photocopied this article by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Funny

    StCredZero "writes wildness. Fuji drew up the photocopying machine which automatically translates the document from English from Japanese. That is the clean nut. With respect to appearance, as for the copier the text, as for OCR what kind of section text, to send that to the translation engine, and in the place English". You reset, or can grasp.

    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    1. Re:I just photocopied this article by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's pretty much what it would be like. Machine translation in general is an extremely difficult problem, and I don't expect to see decent Japanese-English translation software during my lifetime. Nothing less than true artificial intelligence will be required.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
    2. Re:I just photocopied this article by wanderingknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks to that, people like me (translators, though I'm still in the making) will still find a job in the foreseeable future :D

    3. Re:I just photocopied this article by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Machine translation has been making great strides in the past few years. You might not see it with sites like babelfish or google translate, but some of the upcoming research systems do quite a good job of accurately translating between langauges. The output might not flow as well as you'd get from a human, but the ideas do get reliably translated between languages. I think it's quite reasonable to think we'll see really usable machine translation software in common use within 10 years.

      Now getting the computers to understand what's being communicated beyond stupid keyword recognition - that's a big problem.

    4. Re:I just photocopied this article by Helios1182 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Either you are old, or a bit naive. I think in the next 10 years we will see significant improvement. It just happens that the general public doesn't have access to the state of the art research. Systems are improving all of the time. They won't, however; reach the level of a fluent human translator for a long time if ever. But for most documents a machine will be able to do a decent job.

    5. Re:I just photocopied this article by AaxelB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Incidentally, I just went to a talk today by Jeff Dean (a Google fellow) in which he mentioned Google Translate, and some of the things they're doing to develop a viable machine translation system. One of the things that stuck with me was maintaining a database of statistically probable 5-word phrases in the target language, obtained largely by analyzing un-translated news stories and other such things. Also, to the extent that examples are available, they'll directly compare documents that were translated by a human, sentence by sentence, to give the machine a better representation of phrases and syntax that is acceptable in normal language. The machine could basically choose phrases and words that, according to past examples, make sense with the words and phrases around it, giving the translation a much more natural flow. (These new techniques are in place for only Chinese-English and Arabic-English translations, so supposedly those work best at the moment.)

      Granted, Jeff Dean first brought up Google Translate by pointing out how much machine translation sucks in general, so nobody's under the illusion we'll have reliable online translaters within a few months. However, there are a lot of intriguing and innovative ideas out there that are still being implemented, and we could have borderline-acceptable machine translation in the not-too-distant future. Human translators are not in danger.

    6. Re:I just photocopied this article by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Either you are old, or a bit naive. I think in the next 10 years we will see significant improvement.

      Going from 20% accuracy to 40% accuracy is a "significant improvement" -- it's a 100% improvement. And a 25% reduction of crap, if you want to look at it the other way.
      That still doesn't mean it's going to be usable.

      As long as you're on the bad side of 99% accuracy, it's nowhere near "good enough". 99% accuracy still means there's going to be a couple on errors on every single page. Some of the errors might be critical too, causing severe misunderstandings or offense.

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    7. Re:I just photocopied this article by Cryacin · · Score: 0

      Quite right on that count. The thing that makes Babelfish spit out crazy translations is context. For this simple element, you would need an AI that has gone through the human experience to translate text within context, as you need to UNDERSTAND the text to translate it to this level. Ms. Kidmann, your job at the UN is safe. Just stay away from those naughty African dissidents.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    8. Re:I just photocopied this article by ross.w · · Score: 1

      Problem is, a lot of the time the human translators aren't much better (although they too are improving)

      --
      If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
    9. Re:I just photocopied this article by focoma · · Score: 1

      wildness. Fuji drew up the photocopying machine which automatically translates the document from English from Japanese. That is the clean nut. With respect to appearance, as for the copier the text, as for OCR what kind of section text, to send that to the translation engine, and in the place English". You reset, or can grasp.

      After figuring out that that came from Google Language Tools (it's the English translation of the Japanese translation), I decided to play with it by going through the same process of English->Japanese->English. Here's the result:

      "Wildness. Fuji drew up the photocopy machine which automatically translates the document from English from Japanese. That is the clean nut. In regard to the copier in order the text and some kind of section text, that" in the translation engine, and to send in England of the place, in regard to appearance, in regard to OCR. You re-adjust, or can grasp
      Let's see how mangled it will be after a few more iterations. :-D
      --

      - Francis Ocoma

      Please wait while Sig Request is being processed...

    10. Re:I just photocopied this article by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      What you say???

    11. Re:I just photocopied this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Either one it is old, or it is the pure bit. I next think in 10 we look at important improvement. That happens exactly without being access to research of state of the art in the people. The system increases everything of time. But as for those; Reach to the level of the fluent human translator for a long time. But because of most documents the machine works suitably.


      I let the 'fish fix that for you (via Japanese)

    12. Re:I just photocopied this article by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1
      Does it have an Engrish mode?


      "Fuji give happy boy A#1 photocopy! You always sunshine with infinite possibilities. Many English from Japanese are forever making. OCR gives mankind single point. Please flush when eliminated."

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    13. Re:I just photocopied this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either one it is old, or it is the pure bit. I next think in 10 we look at important improvement. That happens exactly without being access to research of state of the art in the people. The system increases everything of time. But as for those; Reach to the level of the fluent human translator for a long time. But because of most documents the machine works suitably.

  8. shouldn't that be by alshithead · · Score: 5, Funny

    It translates to Engrish?

    --
    I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    1. Re:shouldn't that be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I wish. It's machine code.

    2. Re:shouldn't that be by LightPhoenix7 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely! It's wonderful to see such leaps in the technology of Engrish!

    3. Re:shouldn't that be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ol, plesumabry, it tlansrates to Engrish.

      (Befole you get angly, levelsing R's and L's is no steleotype, but a lear plobrem in Japanese-U.S. communications! Lip my stocking, indeed...)

    4. Re:shouldn't that be by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Obligatory: "It's 'fried rice' you plick!"

      --
      The game.
    5. Re:shouldn't that be by Megane · · Score: 1

      Supplies!

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    6. Re:shouldn't that be by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      You mean "It transrates to Engrish"

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  9. But, the catch is... by MilesAttacca · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It doesn't seem to be mentioned in TFA, but I have to wonder: Exactly how fast does it copy if it has to translate? I'm sure it's not the near-instantaneous work we've come to expect of our Xeroxes. If the translations aren't just gibberish Engrish, its usefulness will be immense, so the time won't be so much of a concern; but I do still wonder.

    --
    98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
    1. Re:But, the catch is... by EVil+Lawyer · · Score: 1

      Psst... it's not 1988.

      By FAR the slow part is the physical scanning and printing.

    2. Re:But, the catch is... by MilesAttacca · · Score: 1

      Ah, pardon me. I'm thinking of my CP/M computer a little too fondly. :)

      --
      98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
    3. Re:But, the catch is... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      the problem i'd see with this vs. using the program/engine on a computer is that you can't edit...

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  10. obligatory by larry+bagina · · Score: 1
    "I can call forth spirits from the vasty deep."

    "Why, so can I, or so can any man, But will they come when you do call for them?"
    --Shakespeare, Henry IV, pt. One, act III

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:Obligatory by hnile_jablko · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Exactly, I would like to examine the Engrish (sic) before I buy into practical application of this.

    2. Re:Obligatory by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You forgot the link! :)

    3. Re:Obligatory by hnile_jablko · · Score: 1

      CRAP. I just saw some of the other posts. Please mod me redundant. : (

    4. Re:obligatory by znu · · Score: 1

      "I may call the mind from immense the fact that it is deep".

      But the will which ", therefore i why, or is possible and/or therefore whether the time comes designate the person, as the canned goods
      Are those sought? "
      --Shakespeare, Henry four world, pt. One behavior III

      --
      This space unintentionally left unblank.
    5. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, who modded this "insightful"?

    6. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to be a troll, but...

      How the hell was this obligatory?

    7. Re:Obligatory by Guillersk · · Score: 1

      a photocopier did :)

    8. Re:Obligatory by craagz · · Score: 1

      - translated to Japanese

    9. Re:obligatory by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Oops, that was supposed to be a simpson quote about soviet russian beowulfs :-)

      Actually, that quote was a chapter preface in the mythical man month, and it seemed adaptable:

      "My copier can translate japanese to english!"

      "So can mine. So can any. But Who is driving? Oh my God, bear is driving! How can that be?"

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    10. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This quote raises a great example of just how fundamentally impossible it seems for this machine to be of any real use. Translate the above passage into any dissimilar language. How do you reconcile the play on words of 'call forth' when there is not a single word in the target language which translates to both 'summon' and 'talk at' the way the English word 'call' does?

  11. Translation Engine by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 1

    The version I want is where I scan in a Tenner, the machine sends it to a "Translation Engine" & the output is a Score :-)

    --
    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
    1. Re:Translation Engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Pony to a Monkey shurely....

      http://www.aldertons.com/money.htm

  12. all your base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is about to belong to this photocopier if it translates things in a very literal fashion....

  13. All your base are belong to us. by mind21_98 · · Score: 1

    You have no chance to survive make your time. :)

    1. Re:All your base are belong to us. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no chance to align make your line. Better?

  14. Engrish by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Between the inaccuracy of unproofed OCR and the poor quality of machine translation, I can't imagine that the results are very good.

    --
    LOAD "SIG",8,1
    1. Re:Engrish by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 5, Funny

      So how bad are we talking? Vista Speech Recognition bad or Zero Wing bad?

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    2. Re:Engrish by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Funny

      So how bad are we talking? Vista Speech Recognition bad or Zero Wing bad?
      Yes.
    3. Re:Engrish by YojimboJango · · Score: 1

      Wait, which one is worse. After years of 'all your base' I'm pretty good at understanding Zero Wing speak.

  15. As for this it's possible it keeps being surprised by Solra+Bizna · · Score: 1, Funny

    I think of that this is rather sweet. As for converting Japanese rather than easy, converting other manner with a certain manner, with other manner hard. As for existence of Chinese character, for example, thing is made easier. But (with easily from Chinese character. Chinese which becomes complete)

    -:sigma.SB

    --
    WARN
    THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM
  16. Obligatory by ifchairscouldtalk · · Score: 0, Redundant

    All your base are belong to us

  17. I wonder how long will it take to make a copy? by philpalm · · Score: 1

    Looks like any machine that can produce a full page from one language to Japanese, English, Korean and both chinese character set(Mainland vs Taiwan classical) within an hour would be a winner. Unfortunately if there is no proofreader, the whole process will result in failure, embarassment and red faces...

  18. Finally! by UncleTogie · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hey, I just got one of these and all it'll print is "All your base are belong to us."....

    --
    Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    1. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      opening a book on how many more all your base jokes there will be here....

      email to zig@....

    2. Re:Finally! by mux2000 · · Score: 1

      Hey, I just got one of these and all it'll print is "All your base are belong to us."....
      It probly wants more toner.

  19. Reminds me of "NewsRadio"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    [Reading from his book, "Jimmy James: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler," translated to Japanese and back again]
    Jimmy: I had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street. Many days no business comes to my hut. Jimmy has fear? A thousand times no. I never doubted myself for a minute, for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo...
    [pauses while turning page]
    Jimmy: dung.

  20. and pron it is used for! by bananaendian · · Score: 1

    Finally! Now I can pour my collection of Hentai into one and enjoy the interesting story lines and character development...

    But I wonder does the english language contain enough exclamations though: Uh!, Ah! ?

    --
    www.tribalnetworks.org - helping tribal people around the world to own their own means of high-tech communications
    1. Re:and pron it is used for! by NekoYasha · · Score: 1

      Ow you're very metamorphosis!

  21. Please, I'll believe it when I see it by always+a+newbie · · Score: 1

    I can't wait to see the translator mangle translations.

  22. Translation Engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So how good is the translation engine? Currently Babel Fish and Google both suck at translation Japanese (to English). If it's any good, I would like to see a web based version.

  23. It's impossible... by wanderingknight · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...for a machine, under the current paradigms (that is, no true artificial intelligence) to properly translate something. Translation is not an exact science, and you can't expect to get a decent translation by just having a word-per-word approach. Heck, not even a sentence-per-sentence or paragraph-per-paragraph approach would ever be enough. Translation requires deep social knowledge--you need to know what you are translating, from whom you are translating, for whom you are translating... that is, you need to enclose your translation in a sociological context. No machine can ever wish to do that without artificial intelligence. It's hard enough as it is to get a human being to understand that word-per-word translation is stupid--imagine telling that to your CPU core.

    Disclaimer: I'm a translation student myself ;)

    1. Re:It's impossible... by Carbon016 · · Score: 1

      Yes! And this is made even worse by the fact that Japanese is highly contextual, especially for kanji compounds. I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

    2. Re:It's impossible... by kklein · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Disclaimer: I'm a second language acquisition researcher and assessor.

      I concur. Absolutely. Language is not pure information; it's information shorthand. It assumes a high degree of already-shared knowledge about the world. Some of these assumptions are near-universal; many are not.

      Japanese and English (my languages) offer a great example, especially as it pertains to machine translation. Whereas English is a subject-predicate language, where basically all the information is encoded in the language stream, Japanese is a topic-comment language, where, once set, the "subject" is not re-stated until it changes. Beginning Anglophone learners of Japanese make the mistake of putting a "wa" to denote what they think of as the subject in every sentence, when it does not need to be there. "Wa" is a topic marker; not a subject marker.

      This is a fundamentally different way of thinking about language and, therefore, about the world. Germanic languages seek to operate regardless of context; Asian languages seek to augment (or "comment on") it. If you've ever felt that Japanese people who speak English are beating around the bush or being vague, part of that is cultural, but part of that is the language of the culture that does not require explicitness. A big part of learning Japanese or, for Japanese people, of learning English is learning how to think about the world and about human interactions in a very different way.

      Machines aren't human. They are information processors. They don't know what a "cat" is; they just know that it's a piece of code that can be slotted into a certain place in a set of syntax. Until machines are really intelligent (and I don't think that will be anytime soon), expect more crappy translation than useful. Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably selling something (a crappy machine translator, to be exact!).

    3. Re:It's impossible... by Mike89 · · Score: 1

      Machines can't even translate back and forward properly. For example, Google Translator.

      My girlfriends in Germany so one of my friends was messing around translating silly things to German. For one of them, he put:
      Selina's tang is mighty fine
      Which translated to:
      Der tang von Selina ist mächtige Geldstrafe

      When I translated this back to English (he didn't tell me the original phrase till later:
      The seaweed of Selina is powerful fine ... Seaweed? Odd!

    4. Re:It's impossible... by wanderingknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, that's true. My native tongue is Spanish, I'm studying English translation, and I have a decent knowledge of Japanese (my idea is to also study Japanese translation in the future). I've also studied (though not without a certain degree of displeasure) French and Latin. Out of those five languages, Japanese is my favorite one, mainly due to the musicality of its sounding. And yeah, it's highly contextual--so highly that many sentences in a common Japanese dialog would sound outright stupid without a proper contextual translation.

      That's the main reason why I believe western dubs of Japanese anime suck so much. Japanese has very, very different "conventions", which pushes storyboard writers towards building up scenes that sound very awkward in English or any other western language, even with a decent enough translation and good voice acting.

    5. Re:It's impossible... by Splab · · Score: 1

      I get Seaweed as explanation for 'tang' when I look it up in dict (webster), it seems to me the machine actually hit your phrase quite right both ways. Deutsch is notoriously hard to translate because they got a messed up sentence construction - so the fact that the machine got it right both ways is pretty amazing to me.

      Now the tang meaning you had was obviously something else, but from one sentence it's impossible for a machine or in fact a human to figure out which it is. (Since I haven't seen the word "tang" before and if I would only have looked it up in Websters I would have ended up with the same translation as google).

    6. Re:It's impossible... by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Japanese and English (my languages) offer a great example, especially as it pertains to machine translation. Whereas English is a subject-predicate language, where basically all the information is encoded in the language stream, Japanese is a topic-comment language, where, once set, the "subject" is not re-stated until it changes. Beginning Anglophone learners of Japanese make the mistake of putting a "wa" to denote what they think of as the subject in every sentence, when it does not need to be there. "Wa" is a topic marker; not a subject marker.

      This is excellent terminology to discuss the concept. Where did you get it from?

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    7. Re:It's impossible... by arth1 · · Score: 1

      If you've ever felt that Japanese people who speak English are beating around the bush

      I think you mean "Sensation is to be had for Japan people between English languages, fights of the hibiscus round will be".

      HTH, HAND,
      --
      *Art
    8. Re:It's impossible... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      It looks like what happened is that it just balked at tang, and didn't attempt to translate it to German at all. It does that when it doesn't have any clue what a word is. Since tang actually means something in German, it translated it back as that.

    9. Re:It's impossible... by Splab · · Score: 1

      Errr... What?

      Tang is a seaweed in both Deutsch and English, it did get translated both ways. My point was that since there is no way of deducting that he meant one of the other meanings of tang in English from just one line the translation was technically correct both ways.

    10. Re:It's impossible... by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Oh, German sentence structure is simple compared to many languages. It is a SVO language in general, it's only a certain class of sentences that have the verb-at-end oddity. It's no more odd than us Norwegians occasionally putting the verb first. ("Du sier det. Sier du det?")

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    11. Re:It's impossible... by patrikor_007 · · Score: 1

      Germanic languages seek to operate regardless of context; Asian languages seek to augment (or "comment on") it.

      so... germanic languages are like TCP/IP! and japanese is like... uh... a stream cipher?

      i got nothin'.
    12. Re:It's impossible... by welcher · · Score: 1

      Tang it means taste or odour in this context (as in tangy). If I didnt know the word already, I'd get a decent dictionary and try out the various meanings. It's pretty easy to figure out which is the correct one given the context (if you're human).

    13. Re:It's impossible... by Monchanger · · Score: 2, Funny

      Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably selling something (a crappy machine translator, to be exact!). Well put, and you may get free shipping if you add a "USB Humping Dog" to your cart:

      Or get your hump on with a USB Humping Dog -- on sale now, satisfaction guaranteed! http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/index.php/shop/product/usb_humping_dog/ "Satisfaction guaranteed"? For the buyer or the dog?

      (so glad I RTFA)
    14. Re:It's impossible... by Splab · · Score: 1

      Uhm, could you perhaps provide me with something more authoritative than Websters then?

      And tang as in seaweed makes perfect sense in that sentence, as does other meanings of the word tang, so as I already said twice, it was a correct translation.

    15. Re:It's impossible... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      If you hard-code the "from whom, for whom, and sociological context" part of the translation, you could do it. For example, you could have one translation program written specifically for technical writing. A separate program could be written for, say, business news, etc.. Eventually, you could have a library of translation programs for the majority of social contexts, and parameterize the contexts.

      The next step, of course, is to develop heuristics to determine the context parameter.

      You are right that word-for-word translation will never cut it. And word-for-word is all I have ever seen implemented. But with enough investment, it sounds like decent machine translation COULD be done before your career as a translator runs its course.

      I suggest you invest heavily in your first 10 years on the job :-)

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    16. Re:It's impossible... by ashitaka · · Score: 1

      Great post! The lack of subjects in following sentences can be a huge confusion when first learning Japanese.

      It's amazing how my Japanese wife can continue a conversation on a topic without re-specifying the subject much later.

      She: When is Noriaki's meeting? ("Noriaki-kun no meetingu wa itsu?")

      Me: This weekend. ("Kon shu-matsu") .....

      (An hour or two passes) .....

      She: (Is he) taking the train? (densha de iku?")

      Me: What the hell are you talking about?

      --
      If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
    17. Re:It's impossible... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I didn't know tang meant seaweed - to be honest, looking at the dictionary sites, most of them didn't either. I'd wager if most dictionaries don't list it, translator doesn't either, though I may be wrong. Besides, I think using a meaning of word that all dictionaries class as uncommonly used in a sentence which is ambiguous (tang could mean nearly anything there) is slightly disingenuous.

      The odd bit, and what is weird that is going on is that translator does not translate tang in English to something more resembling its meaning in German. But, like I said before it could well have just balked on it. If that was your original point, so be it.

    18. Re:It's impossible... by kklein · · Score: 1

      Heheh, linguistics classes. I also taught Japanese at a university in the US (i.e. to students who took it on purpose and therefore actually wanted to learn--the most fun I've ever had teaching) for awhile, so I have some practice explaining it.

    19. Re:It's impossible... by kklein · · Score: 1

      You share my pain. My wife does the exact same thing. It's enough to make me weep sometimes. But she gets angry if I stop her and ask for her to re-state the topic, so I usually just reply noncommittally (easy to do in Japanese: "Un. Un. Un.") until it comes to me. Usually it does, but sometimes I have to break down and ask. This is even worse, though, because now she's been talking for a long time, and realizes that everything she has been saying has been a waste. Now she's really angry.

      Perhaps worse is when I figure the topic out wrong, but the conversation still makes sense for a long time until I say something that doesn't fit and she stops talking, stares at me, and goes, in English, "...WHAT?" Then I tell her what I think we're talking about, and she gets this look of exasperation and disbelief and something along the lines of "why the hell would I be talking about that?" And then I offer the theory I had about why she was talking about that, and then she gets that look again.

      In that example of yours, I would assume she was asking if I was taking the train. I'd be like:

      ME: ... Where to? (doko e?)

      SHE: To the meeting. (miitingu made)

      ME: What meeting? (nan no?)

      SHE: THAT meeting! (ANO miitingu!)

      ME: ...

      SHE: Noriaki's meeting! (Noriaki-kun no!)

      ME: ... I'm not going to that meeting. (Boku wa ikanai.)

      SHE: NORIAKI! (NORIAKI!)

      ME: ...OHHHHHhhhh! "Is NORIAKI taking the train!" Okay. Yeah.(OHHHHHhhhh! "NORIAKI-kun wa densha de iku!" Okay. Hai.)

      SHE: (under her breath) Are you stupid? (Baka ja nai?)

      Or my favorite: That is that, isn't it?! (Sore wa are da yo ne!) I usually just throw my hands up at that point and leave the room. That doesn't even make sense in Japanese, but her friends seem to understand. I think it's a boy vs. girl thing, though, because my Japanese guy friends have complained about that phrase before as well.

      Japanese/Anglophone marriages are fun, though. Must be why so many people do it.

    20. Re:It's impossible... by ashitaka · · Score: 1

      Ping Pong!

      We're definitely living in the same world.

      Right down to the constant "Anta baka ja nai?" Which she will of course state is not insulting in the least. But just try it in reverse and see how precious she is.

      --
      If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
  24. No. by sconeu · · Score: 1

    You fail it!

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:No. by alshithead · · Score: 1

      "You fail it!"

      No, no, no! "You fair it!"

      duh...

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
  25. First in the "EngrishMaster" line of appliances by Eternal+Vigilance · · Score: 1

    Don't ask about the jointly developed update to the Hitachi Magic Wand. Just don't ask.

  26. from engligh to japanese and back by google trans by jjeffries · · Score: 1, Redundant

    "Wildness. Fuji drew up the photocopying machine which automatically translates the document from English from Japanese. That is the clean nut. With respect to appearance, as for the copier the text, as for OCR what kind of section text, to send that to the translation engine, and in the place English". You reset, or can grasp

  27. Secret feature by Riktov · · Score: 1

    If you sit on the glass and photocopy your ass, it just switches to "Enlarge by 50%" mode.

    1. Re:Secret feature by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      If you sit on the glass and photocopy your ass, it just switches to "Enlarge by 50%" mode. That's with the Japanese to UK English setting. If you set American English it switches to "Enlarge by 100%" mode.

    2. Re:Secret feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you're the Goatse Man, in which case it says "Out of Toner Error".

    3. Re:Secret feature by Megane · · Score: 1

      You fail it.

      What really happens if you try to sit on the glass and photocopy your ass, is that the copier will proptly give you a kancho.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  28. gotta say.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Democratic Japan, translation photocopies you!

  29. Marketing gimmick by clarkkent09 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What is so wild about it? So they took a scanner, OCR software, a translation engine and a printer and put them all in one box. Well actually not even that since it has to bee hooked up to a computer for the translation part. How about replacing the translation engine with a spell checker? Hooray, call the patent office, I just invented a photocopier that fixes the spelling on the documents!

    --
    Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
  30. forgiving remote say ghost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another friend twists? Nose presses slashdong. The stray digs an initiate tough. Why does slashdong steam without the four curtain?

  31. EN - JP - EN using Excite: Get a beautiful nut! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wild. Fuji made the photocopier that automatically translated the document from Japanese to English. It is a beautiful nut. Obviously, the copier can return the place english by calculating the text what kind of section is a text, and OCR, and sending it to the translation engine.

    Google translates sucks bad. Excite usually give way better translations.

  32. Re:As for this it's possible it keeps being surpri by dancingmad · · Score: 1

    Did you translate this post on the copier?

    --
    "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
  33. Re:As for this it's possible it keeps being surpri by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Ugh! In one fell stroke, you broke my head and reminded me why Babelfish is a last resort.


    -FL

  34. Tattoos.. by Cuznmark1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    This may help people from making some big mistakes with their tats...

    1. Re:Tattoos.. by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Or an excuse to make a photocopy of their ass & moon their boss all in the same lunch hour.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    2. Re:Tattoos.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or an excuse to make a photocopy of their ass & moon their boss all in the same lunch hour. Why would someone's boss be trapped under the glass in a photocopier?
  35. In A.D. 2101, war was beginning. by devnulljapan · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Captain: What happen ?
      Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
      Operator: We get signal.
      Captain: What !
      Operator: Main screen turn on.
      Captain: It's you !!
      CATS: How are you gentlemen !!
      CATS: All your base are belong to us.
      CATS: You are on the way to destruction.
      Captain: What you say !!
      CATS: You have no chance to survive make your time.
      CATS: Ha Ha Ha Ha ....
      Operator: Captain !! *
      Captain: Take off every 'ZIG' !!
      Captain: You know what you doing.
      Captain: Move 'ZIG'.
      Captain: For great justice.

    Looks like it works well...

  36. Always hit the 'Clear All' button. by deniable · · Score: 1

    Instead of the next guy complaining he's getting duplex and stapling, you'll have him pulling the box apart to figure out why it's in a foreign language. Helpdesk fun for all.

  37. Always a bridesmaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Darnit, I was hoping to be the first one to make an engrish joke.

  38. Not just the documents by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1
    The LCD status display also uses this translation system:

    All Your PC are Load Letter_
  39. It's just going to be a matter of time... by el_flynn · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...before we see photos of the scanned documents in http://www.engrish.com/ ... What were they thinking of??

    --
    The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
  40. so now by yoprst · · Score: 0, Redundant

    all your documents are belong to us

  41. ether lord - lost in translation by Somegeek · · Score: 3, Funny

    Our those which achieve the main thing of the ether of title in order to know never clearly that remnant because of the remainder which it should find!

    Since I could never have created the above err, prose, myself, I typed the following answer into babelfish and translated it into Japanese, and for good measure, back into English.

    Clearly that remains for those of us who have achieved the title Ether Lord to know, and for the rest never to find out!

    --
    And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
  42. The translator edition of Google... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The translator of the specialist may face when being the technology which in the job placement place which crosses the world Fuji Xerox developed because of the most recent prototype photocopy machine it makes well, directly.

    The device just of the Japanese show [subscription link] presently, while maintaining the layout of the origin, scans the seat to which the Japanese from the newspaper or the magazine text is printed, Chinese, can stir English or Korean that translation. Repel the switch of opposite direction and the work of language analysis.

    As for the secret of Fuji Xerox the text for designing the maintenance, in algorithm and the enthusiastic translation server and connects this being able to distinguish during sketch and the line there is a nameless copier in the networking.

    Concept 1 while touching, as for the translation machine because of the thing is splendid thought with someone who works systematically with many language, (...In order a crime is), for Babelfish and Google to translate, when it is the sentence which becomes ruinous the place was seen, transferring/changing of technology from present formation of the machine-translation (MT) software which is probably will be desired.

  43. All your copies... by registrations_suck · · Score: 0, Redundant

    All your copies are belong to us!

  44. Tell that to google asswipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google uses statistical means to do their translations. Look it up.

  45. Says someone who's never translated something. by Valdrax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Either you are old, or a bit naive. I think in the next 10 years we will see significant improvement.

    Yeah, 'cause researchers have long promised us that AI will reach us in 10 years. <sarcasm>

    Seriously, I think you underestimate the difficulty of translating. Have you done any major foreign-language translation -- especially of conversational speech? My experience has primarily been with Japanese and English, and I'll tell you right now that it can be nightmarish.

    Sentence fragments are the worst part. Japanese has a completely different word order from English. All modifiers (including phrases and clauses) come before the word they modify, and the language has a Subject-Object-Verb order. "I just saw the man who stole my friend's watch last Tuesday" becomes "Just I Last Tuesday friend's watch stole man saw." Now try translating that from Japanese to English when the sentence is cut in half.

    Worse, the language has very different levels of allowed vagueness. "Complete" sentences in Japanese can contain just a descriptor or an action without any specification of who did/was what. Conversely, translating "3 of them" in English to Japanese is hard because you have to know "3 of what?" to know what counting suffix to use.

    Another problem is that many very different words sound exactly the same when conjugated to the gerund or perfective forms. English has a number of homonyms, but there are MANY more opportunities for mix-ups if you don't have access to kanji to tell the semantic meaning apart because Japanese has a much more limited range of phonemes. For example, take "katte" which is the gerund form of the verbs "kau" (buy), "kau" (keep/raise), "karu" (cut), "karu" (spur on), and "katsu" (win). That's 5 completely different verbs that conjugate to the same sound. If they're written phonetically or your going from speech, then you have to be able to understand the meaning behind the words to translate. (Did I mention earlier that you may not have an explicit subject and object to go off of?)

    Then you get into issues of translating things like politeness levels, different ways of addressing people, and other concepts that don't translate well into English or concepts like singular vs. plural that are dropped in going to Japanese. Let's not even consider puns and poetry!

    These are not trivial issues. An automatic translator would need to somehow be able to conceptualize what a person is trying to speak about, which would require understanding the story being told and an ability to predict where they are going with it. This will require strong AI.

    Accurate and intelligible translation is an art -- not a science -- because it requires an intuitive and empathetic ability to understand the mind of the speaker well enough to map their thoughts into a different method of expression.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Spasemunki · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of translation in terms of human methodologies- learn the language-specific grammar and vocabulary of individual words- rather than as a mapping problem: map a sentence (which is often the smallest unit of language you care about) in one language into a sentence in another language. Machine learning applications have already made significant progress in this area, and with growing data sets and refinements in the algorithms, their ability to statistically "predict" what a sentence in one language should be mapped to in another language is growing quite a bit over time.

      Peter Norvig, the AI researcher who supervised the creation the software for the Mars rover, is overseeing people doing this sort of work at Google. There are no individual human translators involved in their translation system; instead, you take the English language version of a web page, and compare it with the non-English language pages. Make a map- using contextual and structural clues in the document- to map from one language to the other. Repeat a gazillion times using the largest data set you can find (hint: Google's page cache- Norvig's stated reason for moving from NASA to Google was "they have all the data"), and statistically weight the mappings as you scan more and more data.

      Is it perfect? Nope. But in quite a few cases, it's good enough. And it gets a little bit better every time someone, somewhere in the world, translates a web page into another language. While real-time speech translation a la Star Trek may be way out, I would expect to see significant strides made in the translation of text using these methods in the next couple decades.

    2. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with this is that languages such as Japanese have a tendency to suppress information that is obvious (to a human) from context. So there are many single sentences that are literally untranslatable out of context.

      You may well have an amazing statistical technique that can compare your web page sentence-by-sentence to a massive corpus of bilingual pages, but how is it going to know whether "kondo ha simasu" on your page means "this time I'll do it", "this time you'll do it", "next time they'll do it", "next time we'll do it", or any of a dozen more possible combinations? It can't, unless it is capable of understanding the context and knowing what the sentence refers to. Statistics just won't cut it.

      You may say that this will nonetheless give a good enough basis for a human to go through and edit the output into a coherent English whole. And there is some truth in this, though the human will still need to be fluent in both Japanese and English and to refer to the original text frequently, so you won't save much money that way. But given that machine translation cannot, and will not for the foreseeable future, be able to stand alone without human intervention, why is this being done in a copier? I could just about understand a scanner, that would put the translation into a nice Word document for the said human to check and fix up before printing...

    3. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by mstahl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What the grandparent post is saying is that you might not have a full sentence, nor might a full sentence even provide sufficient information to perform the translation accurately. If Japanese and English were so easy to translate back and forth, don't you think that humans would have an easier time of it?

      The method of analyzing bilingual pages is great for languages that have a similar structure to one another, like italian and spanish. In fact, this is part of how I learned spanish, by reading a bilingual copy of Don Quixote in high school. Slightly botching a translation from Spanish to English or vice versa might so much as raise an eyebrow briefly, but translating between Japanese and English requires an intimate knowledge of both languages. I do think that it will be possible with natural language processing systems in the near future (think less than a decade) but, no question, we're not that close right now. These guys saying that the technology won't be here within their lifetime have to be ancient or just forgetting how rapidly the pace at which technology accelerates has been increasing of late. How long ago was it that this here "Internet" only had a few hundred nodes?

    4. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by l0cust · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What the grandparent post is saying is that you might not have a full sentence, nor might a full sentence even provide sufficient information to perform the translation accurately.

      I think you are missing the point a bit. A native Japanese speaker will not have any problem understanding the japanese sentence even with the insufficient context(from the perspective of say an Englishman) but he will have problem with a sentence of similar sort which is in English even if he understands english quite well. The level of difficulty will depend upon his understanding of the other language. There comes a point in one's progress in a foreign language when instead of thinking in the mothertongue and translating it into the new language, we start thinking in the new language itself when dealing with it. That is the level where translation to our primary language becomes almost trivial(barring all the language based limitations ofcourse).

      Maybe the future machines will come with some sort of "Mode" for different languages so that they start "thinking" in the language which they are supposed to be translating to the "primary language" just by toggling a couple of switches.

      I agree with the rest of your post though.
      --
      Politicians and Pedophiles: Two groups of exploitive bastards who are most dangerous when they're thinking of children.
    5. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

      Seriously, I think you underestimate the difficulty of translating. Have you done any major foreign-language translation -- especially of conversational speech?

      I totally agree with your excellent post. I know Russian very well and in the past I have used what is considered to be the best EnglishRussian translation program. It was certainly better than nothing, but it had many flaws. Many European languages, including Russian, use double negatives. For example, it is quite to correct to say in Russian "I don't have nothing". This use of double negatives was something that caused the translation program to have all kinds of difficulties and it would incorrectly translate negative statements between English and Russian, often turning them into the exact opposite of what was said in the original language. I used to use the program for quick Russian -> English translations, but I would always have to refer to the original Russian text to be sure that the translation really was correct. Translating double negatives was its biggest problem, but I remember a few other sentences that it just completely botched and rendered them into something that was the opposite of what was actually said.

      I have read of many English speaking men who've met Russian speaking women through the internet and tried to use cheap or free translation programs to correspond with them and had the "relationship" (if you can call it that) end very quickly due to some big mistake the translation program made. Nobody with any sense would rely on machine translation in a business or personal setting. There's just too much potential for mistakes.

    6. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by renrutal · · Score: 0

      Then it all comes back to mimicking what humans do in bilingual environments, and what they(we) use to do well at that: We just think in that language.

      Only perl can parse Perl, only human[-based] interpreters can parse human languages.

    7. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      A while ago I thought up the idea of having a translator that requires someone who understands the writing in its original form and then "tells" the computer what it means (by eliminating any ambiguities). This then reduces the problem to simple rule application. It would be robust against incomplete "meaning-imbuing" because the person who does so can have it translate to and back from the target language, and if anything's wrong, it's just a sign that they didn't give it enough meaning to go on, and they can further clarify.

      While this obviously isn't fully automated, it would be much better than what currently exists, because it would mean that, as long as one person who understands it can work on it, anyone in the world can read it.

      I remember searching for stuff like this that people are currently trying, and it didn't look like there was much out there. Eventually I was going to hire a patent attorney to search for something it would infringe on, but then the first three I asked said that it would create a conflict of interest with something they were currently working on for a client.

    8. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by lanceblack · · Score: 1

      As someone else who speaks Japanese and English I can agree wholeheartedly. Try as I might, I've found it next to impossible to explain to someone who only speaks one language or two or more similar languages (Spanish/Italian; even English/French) that the gulf between English and a language like Japanese is *vast.* Accurate translation in real life *requires* intricate paraphrasing. It involves 'mode-switching' as mentioned, and a kind of 'thirdspace' in which the language input is broken down into concepts, adjusted according to multiple and interrelated contexts, and then rephrased in a new, and profoundly different, output mode. Much is lost, much is added, much is guessed at and jerry-rigged. What this means is that a fully-trained bilingual interpreter will often be forced to alter the nuances of the original language and try to get the gist of the 'meaning', 'feeling', 'intention' and 'innuendo' across. Try reading Kawabata Yasunari in Japanese and then English. Not the same author. I suspect that 'human-like' language translation is much closer to 'human-like' AI than most people working in the field would like to admit.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." Darwin
    9. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by ashitaka · · Score: 1

      I'll paraphrase your very accurate and wonderfully detailed post with a practical example that points out the real root of the problem:

      I now find that when I am speaking or writing Japanese I am thinking in Japanese. I am not thinking of the concepts from a Western viewpoint then constructing sentences based upon English grammatical structures and rules and then translating to Japanese sentences and grammar. During the conversation I view the world in what can be a remarkably different frame of mind. "Switching to Japanese mode" is the best way to describe it.

      I can have conversations that I will be completely unable to translate into English. If a non-Japanese speaker asks why we are laughing I will have to fall back things like "It's a very Japanese joke" because explaining it can take away any humourous context. The reverse is true as well. I've given up trying to explain to my Japanese wife why some Monty Python skits are hilarious. {cue: Fish slapping dance}

      --
      If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
    10. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      I haven't done translation between Japanese and English, but I have done some work in translation amongst romance languages. Things are improving, and they are improving rapidly. I don't think we will ever replace humans, but for some things machines may well be good enough. If I write a quick note to explain the new cafeteria policy it could be translated by machine. I don't see a computer capturing the subtleties of Faulkner or other real literature now, or maybe ever. There is a huge difference between technical type writing and artistic writing.

    11. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      map a sentence (which is often the smallest unit of language you care about) in one language into a sentence in another language Using the GPPs examples...

      English: You must buy it!
      Japanese: Katte.

      English: Keep it
      Japanese: Katte.

      English: Cut
      Japanese: Katte.

      Getting the picture yet? You can't translate Japanese to any other language without understanding the context, as any information that is obvious from context is not said/written.
    12. Re:Says someone who's never translated something. by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 1

      Absolutely correct. In fact, I think you've only scratched the surface of how different the logic inherent in Japanese is, and how wildly opposite Japanese and English (or any other Indo-European language) are. (And yes, I do speak Japanese.)

      "An automatic translator would need to somehow be able to conceptualize what a person is trying to speak about, which would require understanding the story being told and an ability to predict where they are going with it. This will require strong AI."

      That is the key. Corpus-based sentence mapping might seem like a hopeful new approach in MT, but again I think it'll fail woefully when it comes to Japanese. Unlike translating between, say, English and Spanish, you can't even establish corresponding words, sentences, and grammatical structures much of the time between Japanese and English; and there's a lot of unspoken context that *must* be determined by a human or a smart AI.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  46. Hoshi Sato... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is that you?

  47. I can't wait to see the problems this causes... by brit74 · · Score: 1

    Pretty soon, you'll be hearing this at the office: "Damn copier! First, I got a paper jam. I finally got that fixed - but my hands are all covered in toner. Now, all my documents are coming out in a different language! What's going on? I can't even tell what language this is! Grrrrrr"

  48. Is this thing standalone? by Animats · · Score: 1

    Is it standalone, or does it phone home? If it sends the content out for translation, it's a huge security hole for an organization.

  49. Vapor? by Garridan · · Score: 1

    They show a picture of the machine, I see. But what they don't show a picture of, is the before / after pictures in various languages. I'm not impressed.

  50. Konnichi day! by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 1

    This is vely intelesting! Vely!

    Doshte nobody invented befole, I don't know! Cullently I'm using baka velsion online; it wolks pelfectly!

    --
    --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
    1. Re:Konnichi day! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow man. You sound like Krusty doing his "Aah me so solly! Me so solly!" bit. Cue shot of astonished japanese people in the audience.

    2. Re:Konnichi day! by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 1

      I *am* Japanese Klusty, you insensitive clod!

      Gero-gero hafu-gaijin!

      --
      --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
  51. It's the voluntary collaboration with a data tap.. by cheros · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What is wild is that anyone with half a working braincell would use a photocopier in an office where a copy of every document is sent to an uncontrolled 3rd party for translation.

    Yeah, put that baby in the CEO's office..

    (not the mention the fact that there's a huge gap between mechanical translations and the subtleties of language only a skilled translator and/or native speaker has any hope of translating).

    So, IMHO cute idea, but don't expect me to bu one any time soon.

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  52. Compare this to Babel Fish by Dekortage · · Score: 1

    Common exercise: take the article, drop its text into Babelfish, translate it from English to and back again. When doing so from English to Japanese and back, the results are:

    The translator of the specialist may face when being the technology which in the job placement place which crosses the world Fuji Xerox developed because of the most recent prototype photocopy machine it makes well, directly. The Japanese show [ the device of subscription link ] only presently, while maintaining the layout of the origin, scans the seat to which the Japanese from the newspaper or the magazine text is printed, Chinese, can stir English or Korean from that translation. Repel the switch of opposite direction and the work of language analysis. As for the secret of Fuji Xerox the text for designing the maintenance, in algorithm and the enthusiastic translation server and connects this being able to distinguish during sketch and the line there is a nameless copier in the networking. Concept 1 while touching, as for the translation machine in order for Babelfish and Google to translate, systematic with the many language which is crime (...) In case of the sentence which becomes ruinous because of the thing splendid thought and place were seen with someone who works machine-translation which is (MT) transferring/changing of technology from present formation of the software probably will be desired, is

    Something has been lost, I think. Let's try a quick trip through Europe, though. English to Spanish, Spanish to French, French to German, and German back to English:

    The translators of the specialist could steer early in relation to centers work in the world, if Fuji Xerox returns well in the technology, which he developed for his machine plus the latter only the photostat of the prototype. The device momentarily in the demonstration connection of the subscription ] only in Japan knows a printed sheet of the Japanese text of a magazine or a department and a butter outside of a translation of in English or Korean Chinese, investigates, during canned goods t - the original regulation. Shift from a traction a switch and the linguistic work of the analysis in the also opposite management. The secret of Fuji Xerox lies in creation of a net of the copiers innomada at a dedicated employee, and of the translation this with the algorithms to combine, those between the text, which designs and the lines for the cross-checks can differentiate between, it maintain. While the concept of one - the hood is the machine of the translation a admirable idea for everyone, which works regularly the repeated languages (guilty...), to wait the technology left us shifts ignition since the present generation of the software of the machine translation (TA), which can be the opinion that the speeches mangling in places, as the fish and Google of Babel translate.

    Honestly, I'm impressed, "as the fish and Google of Babel translate."

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
  53. One time by myth_of_sisyphus · · Score: 1

    My street is taken over by Latino gangs. (Most of the gang members are kids from Central America.) These guys hang out in front of my building selling rock all day.

    The owner's had cameras installed to deter the selling of crack in front of the building. The problem is, nobody cared. The cameras are small and not easily seen. They went about slingin' rock as usual.

    I decided to print up a sign with a big camera on it. I typed out something like "This building is watched by Surveillance Cameras. Any illegal activity will be recorded and taken to the police." (Don't worry all you privacy zealots, the police don't care about recordings of gangs dealing crack. I tried. I just want them and the crackheads they attract to go elsewhere.)

    The problem is, they don't speak English and I don't speak Spanish. Rather than ask somebody I went to Babelfish and typed it in and pasted it into my nifty sign.

    I posted these signs all around the building. An hour later they were all gathered around one sign laughing at the ridiculous translation. They took them down to show to their friends. Apparently the were really funny.

    You can still buy crack in front of my building.

    1. Re:One time by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 1

      "This building is watched by Surveillance Cameras. Any illegal activity will be recorded and taken to the police."

      Este edificio se encuentra vigilado por Cámaras de Monitoreo. Toda actividad ilegal será grabada y entregada a la policía.

      There are of course many other ways to put it, but if they laugh this time will be because they don't give a hoot about the cameras or the police. I hope your problem gets solved!

      --
      +Raider of the lost BBS
    2. Re:One time by francisco.colaco · · Score: 2

      Biblefish translations to spanish says something like This building _is being looked at_ by Surveillance Cameras (lit.) Any illegal activity will be registered and taken _the_ police. So, you actually register the activities, but take the police away, not the activities to the police.

      Better is the portuguese translation: This building is taked attention by Surveillance Cameras. All illegal activity (that is allright for brasilian portuguese) will be recorded and the police will be examined.

      Italian and german seem to be more or less OK. The french translation is also understandable.

          Francisco

    3. Re:One time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got anything, Man?

  54. Nothing new... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adobe Acrobat Pro. does OCR that separates graphics from text, scanning TIFF files into PDFs, so there's nothing new there.

    For the translation, what it didn't say is where is this remote server that the printer is connecting to, and the quality of the translation. This remote server can very well be google translate or babelfish.

  55. Japanese Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Japanese books read from right-to-left top-to-bottom? If so, I wonder if you could photocopy a page straight from a Japanese book and have the translated page written in standard English left-to-right format?

  56. Just tried it now! by hotfireball · · Score: 1

    I to buy that exactly, to type this short text, and from Japanese from English
    You tried in order to translate. As for that you see rather in me
    It is good, don't you think? so is?

  57. As a Japanese / English translator... by dirtsurfer · · Score: 1

    I'm not worried. Or, as this copier would say, The troubling one it is to have [indef. pron] not very and much.

  58. Ten years from now though ... by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

    you are in a foreign country and you want to say something to a local. Dial up a number on your mobile, say what you want to say and either the translation gets spoken back to you or it turns up, a few seconds later, in a text. I know speech recognition is a bit harder than OCR but it's only a matter of time before they perfect it.

    --
    I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
  59. Guess its hard to patent this one by mach1980 · · Score: 0

    Does John Searles Chinese Room argument go as prior art for a patent?

    --
    Break the sound barrier - bring the noise.
  60. Hmm, I wonder what it costs by drphil · · Score: 1

    As an research chemist for a large company, I have had to teach myself the unique language of machine translated Japanese for when I'm in literature search mode. We pay $30 a pop for an instantaneous machine translated JP patent through a web-based service. The service is tuned to patent phrases so not as bad as Engrish, but it takes getting used to. The translations are good enough to get the gist, but if the reference is going to be used as prior art for a patent filing, we'll spring for a human translation which costs a whole lot more and takes a lot more time to get. I wonder how this copier would stack up against the service we use in a cost/benefit analysis?

  61. Ah, Copier-Sama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess the translation backoffice server farm will see a lot of requests with vocabulary like: tentacled monsters, school-girl superhero, Crystal Tokyo, giant mecha, exoskeleton, space battleship, katana, ecchi, hantai, otaku, bishoyo, bishonen, senshi, H-rated, bukkake, gokku etc.

  62. Military Application? by Kyrka · · Score: 1

    I read via another /. story recently that automated voice translation on the fly is a hot issue for darpa these days. I wonder if the algo used by this OCR method would be of any assistance in getting a two-stage unit that uses voice recognition off the ground?

    1. Re:Military Application? by jasonditz · · Score: 1

      Even more valuable to the military would be if they could make a copy machine that takes transcripts of Iranian politicians' speeches and mistranslates them all into threats against Israel. The number of man-hours they spend doing it by hand must be staggering.

  63. Not only into English by Flying+pig · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Years ago I read a German press release about the then-new Intel 486. There was a completely confused reference to it having an attached buoy for a small boat (I am not joking). It took me about ten minutes to realise that the author had no idea at all of how to translate "integrated floating point unit", and presumably had come somewhere across the word "boot".

    Obviously the translator was all at sea.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Not only into English by iNetRunner · · Score: 1

      ..More like it (the whole computer) could be used as an anchor. Could be legal in the US and third world countries..

      --
      Store with salt
  64. Really? by chord.wav · · Score: 1

    What does it do when the translated text doesn't fit the original layout? Resize the font to an unreadable size?

    1. Re:Really? by argent · · Score: 1

      Please keep tapes in a proper ambient, and not to make dust or wrinkle.

  65. not quite what it appears by v1 · · Score: 1

    Fuji Xerox's secret lies in networking the unnamed copier to a dedicated translation server and combining this with algorithms that can distinguish between text, drawings and lines for maintaining page layouts.

    In other words, it's not a translation box at all. It's a networked scanner/copier that passes the scan to a server parked somewhere else to modify the page and send it back to the printer.

    To call it a translator without mentioning the big box sitting across the office that goes with it, is a bit fraudulent. Reminiscent of the chess playing robot frauds of years back, that were run by a chessmaster hiding somewhere nearby running the mannequin.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  66. no more amazing by m2943 · · Score: 1

    This is no more amazing than taking your desktop OCR software, scanning a page, pasting the result into Google Translate, and printing the resulting page. The reason nobody is shipping this is because the translation isn't good enough yet to make it worthwhile.

  67. Greatest invention of all time by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

    Well, I mean the packing list includes a "for glue the sex rubber mat" -- so it can't possibly be that bad, could it? Actually, ew. It's an ethernet switch. I really don't want to know what that bit's for!

    It sounds like they've come up with the greatest invention of all time - an ethernet switch that allows you to completely circumvent the computer and have your pr0n delivered directly to the ultimate....ah...consumer. God bless those crazy bastards.

    1. Re:Greatest invention of all time by operagost · · Score: 1

      have your pr0n delivered directly to the ultimate....ah...consumer
      Must be what the "give cones" are for.
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  68. left out of headline: "...but not very well" by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    I've played around with a lot of OCR technology and I have to say, it just doesn't work perfectly yet. Anyone looking to just get text recognized, they'd better be prepared to run it through a word processor and give it an additional proofreading. And we also know how effective babelfish is. So we're to expect that they can take raw text freshly OCR'd, run it through a babelfish workalike and get something out the other end that doesn't read like a poorly translated engrish technical manual? Or do they just have very low expectations?

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  69. Just try doing it sometime! by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    Okay, OCR a page of text. You'll probably end up with 5% typos. Now pass that through a machine translator. Laugh at the results. From a Russian cruise ship notice: Behold many whistles! Pursue life savering equipments and bang convolve across the bosoms. Flee then to the indifferent career ships whereast obediencing the orders of the vessel chef. ... and so on from 3454 web sites that collect broken English.

  70. Prank copier by AndyCR · · Score: 1

    Someone should make a prank copier which uses OCR and replaces some words in the document you make a "copy" of... Replace all occurrences of "dear" with "esteemed yet stupid", "boss" with "monkey boy", "accounting" with "bean-counters", "engineers" with "propeller heads", and "best regards" with "Die in a fire".

    Esteemed yet stupid monkey boy,

    Today I discussed our finances with the bean-counters office. They stated that the propeller heads are having a problem getting enough supplies to finish the project this week. How should I approach this problem?

    Die in a fire,
    - Worker name

    --
    If there's anyone I hate more than stupid people, it's intellectuals.
  71. Not a problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't see a machine understand a conversation in context, however. Neither can the fansubbers.
  72. Re: by wdolez00 · · Score: 1

    "Please to be doing the needful"

  73. The million dollar question by Joebert · · Score: 1

    If a Japanese receptionist sits on the copier, does it switch between portrait & landscape mode ?

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  74. Because... by Rix · · Score: 1

    Now they can more efficiently create terrible manuals.

  75. Some promises you just have to give up on. by Valdrax · · Score: 2

    These guys saying that the technology won't be here within their lifetime have to be ancient or just forgetting how rapidly the pace at which technology accelerates has been increasing of late. How long ago was it that this here "Internet" only had a few hundred nodes?

    I am not exaggerating when I say that automatic translation from extremely dissimilar languages requires strong AI. You need to be able to guess what a person is thinking from what they're expressing to map it into a different way of expressing themselves. You also need strong AI to understand the flow of conversation when terms are not expressed strongly.

    As an example, Japanese doesn't really have a word that maps to "it." They have a word that maps well to "thing," but nothing that matches "it." This is because pronouns in English fulfill the function of referring back to a concept expressed in a previous sentence to place it in short form in the context of the sentence being expressed.

    English Example:
    E1: Hey Frank, did you buy that TV yet?
    E2: Yeah, I bought it yesterday.

    "Japanese" Example:
    J1: Hey Hiro, already you that TV did buy? [or still you that TV haven't bought?]
    J2: Yeah, yesterday bought. [Note the lack of "I" and "it!"]

    Languages like English make translation easy in this regard because you have a generic pronoun to "hold the place" of a specific subject or object. You don't have to know what it is -- you just fill it in. In Japanese, if the conversation were to continue about the TV, the word TV would never be brought up again until the subject of a sentence changed away to something else.

    Often, you can have a conversation in Japanese where the subject is never explicitly spoken because it's obvious from the context of the speakers. Given the frequency of homophones in the language (particularly in conjugated forms of verbs), this can make translation maddening if you don't know what the speakers are talking about (because you can't see what they can see or don't know what they know).

    This is most frustrating when you're dealing with an author who is using ambiguous or cryptic speech by off-screen characters to give a sense of foreboding or foreshadowing. The conversation is just as cryptic to a native Japanese speaker as it is to us, but we literally cannot translate it to English without knowing the secrets ahead of time because grammatically correct English cannot be that vague!

    Anyway, I'm starting to veer off from my original point which is to say that accurate translation requires modeling of the minds of the speaker which requires strong AI. A simple dictionary + grammar rule-set or even a theoretically complete database of possible sentences and phrases will never be able to achieve translation because of the inherent differences in the levels of specificity in the two languages that requires you to model and understand the thoughts and intentions of the speakers.

    Frankly I've mostly given up on strong AI within my lifetime after so many decades of empty promises, so I don't see accurate automated translators coming any time soon.

    A final thought:
    While I've harped on the difficulty of going from Japanese to English, there are some tricky parts of going the other way -- I just don't have as much experience. The one time I wrote a letter in Japanese for a class that included words I didn't know beforehand, I ended up accidentally using words that sounded bizarre and in one case insulting because words in different languages don't map 100% to each other. A word that means the same thing in Japanese and English for one use may not mean the same thing in another. For example, you can use both "karu" and "kiru" to mean "cut" when talking about hair, but you'd use "karu" for mowing grass or shearing sheep, and "kiru" for chopping up fish and accidentally cutting your finger. The relationship between words is a Venn diagram, and computer translation gets that wrong when it's unable to realize what the (omitted) subject or object of the sentence was.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Some promises you just have to give up on. by mstahl · · Score: 1

      I am not exaggerating when I say that automatic translation from extremely dissimilar languages requires strong AI.

      I never said you were! Everybody seems to be misinterpreting my optimism—which I think is well-placed since artificial intelligence was my specialization and a significant part of what I did in college. I never said that it would be easy in today's terms, but those terms keep changing rapidly and our computation power is moving at a faster than exponential rate. I don't really think that, given that, I can reasonably agree that we won't have this kind of context-sensitive AI in the next few years.

      On the other hand, you really don't need to skip your medication to imagine an automated translator for complete documents from Japanese to English. The lack of context from sentence to sentence could be resolved the same way that humans resolve it, and it wouldn't require your AI to see what the humans are seeing or anything like that.

      I dunno. The more I look at the world and the way it's changing the more optimistic I get about things like this.

  76. Re:Moderators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OP should be modded as 'Flame-bait', rather than 'Troll', then?

  77. Re:Anime copy machine by Psykechan · · Score: 1

    Vegeta, how many copies can we get per toner cartridge?

    (Does anyone care to guess?)

  78. yes, in 10 years by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    we will have seamless translation, as we drive around in our fusion powered flying cars

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  79. Does it auto-upload to engrish.com, too? by FreakerSFX · · Score: 1

    I can't imagine this is worlds better than other translation software which is usually fraught with problems due to the different in the structure of the language. People speaking different languages natively don't even conceptualize the same way.

    This sounds like an engrish generator....

    --
    This sig contains a manual self-destruct. Kindly please put your foot through your monitor in 8 seconds.
    1. Re:Does it auto-upload to engrish.com, too? by FreakerSFX · · Score: 1

      Oh my GOD. I've been made utterly redundant. That was awesome.

      I think when I went to post there were 10 replies...then I got distracted...and came back....and now all the good engrish comments are already made.

      Note to self: ignore highly time-sensitive job to make Slashdot funnies...

      --
      This sig contains a manual self-destruct. Kindly please put your foot through your monitor in 8 seconds.
  80. Voice transcription? Ha! by argent · · Score: 1

    Give me voice transcription that actually works, then start worrying about translating the jabberwocky to another language.

  81. I had to, I hope you understand by alexfeig · · Score: 1

    Wildness. Fuji drew up the photocopying machine which automatically translates the document from English from Japanese. That is the clean nut. Whether with respect to appearance, as for the copier the text, as for OCR what kind of section text, you send that to the translation engine, and to the place reset English it can grasp.

  82. Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, IMHO cute idea, but don't expect me to bu one any time soon. It sounds like you're booing it already.
  83. Re:Anime copy machine by GTMoogle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Its powder level! It's over 9000!

    (I tried so hard not to rise to the bait... I honestly did. Then I thought of the power/powder pun and I couldn't stop. Damn you Psykechan! Damn you!

  84. Japanese doesn't map to English at all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > On the other hand, you really don't need to skip your medication to imagine an automated translator for complete documents from Japanese to English. The lack of context from sentence to sentence could be resolved the same way that humans resolve it, and it wouldn't require your AI to see what the humans are seeing or anything like that.

    Well, the way humans do it revolves around their understanding of the people talking and the world around them. The information simply does not exist in the text, it's assumed, and this is very much for complete documents. A complete Japanese sentence leaves things out. It's not incomplete to a Japanese person, it's just "incomplete" for the poor translator who has to track down that information. In a book, it might be 800 pages ahead when we finally figure out what the foreshadowing meant.

    Ambiguity is the rule, not the exception, in Japanese. And sometimes, you have to preserve it, especially in works of fiction. That makes it like having to translate something without being able to use the letter E...

    Don't get me wrong: computers may be able to do very well translating between languages with lots of overlap (e.g. French/Spanish), but for languages like Japanese & English, they barely overlap at all. Unlike the GP posts, I'm not too worried about simple things like SVO vs. SOV; word order is by far the least of anyone's worries. And kanji can disambiguate a lot better than spoken Japanese ever will. But the fact that some things simply don't get communicated will make it untranslatable unless someone finds a way to supply all of the proper context to the translation.

    That's probably not going to happen any time soon. The translators here are absolutely right about having to switch modes. I'm a mere student, but they're not exaggerating the difficulty at all.

  85. Dear Aunt, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's so double the killer delete select all your base are belong to us?

    You have no chance to survive.
    Make your time.

  86. for restoring of the language immediate,thanks you by swschrad · · Score: 1

    of wonderful creation Fuji being in hopefully market soon?

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  87. I am for to be happy this is not future, present by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Thank you very much for your order for 100.000 bottles of Pocari Sweat.

    We will boat this on top of evening in 1000 cases, 10 bottles in each case.

    Wishing your family will not die when they hear this news.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  88. Re:Anime copy machine by AI0867 · · Score: 1

    8000, but the english translation will say 9000.

  89. I can give at least one source... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know that it's a source that you used, but my copy of Expressive Japanese by Senko K. Maynard calls Japanese a "topic-comment" language (and English an "agent-does" language). The ISBN is 0-8248-2889-5.

    And I want to thank both of you for your comments; I learned a little by reading them. As you might guess, I'm one of the 8 zillion random nerds who watch anime and study Japanese in their spare time. Naturally, that means that I'm a total n00b at it thus far and am just glad to finally recognize basic kana, but I have to look up anything the tiniest bit "complex" (for me), like that sign at Hana Suki that read (as I found out after looking up the kanji) "nihon jisshoku" ("authentic japanese cuisine" for anyone else reading this).

    Yeah, it's bad when I don't yet recognize common kanji combinations like "nihon" yet and wondered what the hell a 'sun tree' was :( (though I did learn that it's 'sun + origin', as per Land of the Rising Sun, from the escapade).

  90. Topics and Subjects aargh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0