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Meet the 5-Watt, Tiny, fit–PC
ThinSkin writes "Meet the fit-PC, a tiny 4.7 x 4.5 x 1.5-inch PC that only draws 5-watts, consuming in a day less power than a traditional PC consumes in one hour. By today's standards, the fit-PC has very little horsepower, which makes it apt for web browsing and light applications; today's games need not apply. Loyd Case over at ExtremeTech reviews the fit-PC and puts it through its paces, noting that performance is not this PC's strength, but rather its small size and price tag of $285."
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Help Me! I'm trapped in the tubes! Oh noes! Here comes a internet!
Uses the case for cooling, huh?
I wonder how it'd work if you wrapped it in plastic, stuck it in a bucket of ice, and overclocked it?
It has half the processor too.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
No flash. Fewer USB ports than the XO-1. Lame.
(And Gentoo? WTF!?)
It's already got USB. All you need is a tiny USB wifi adapter and you're all set.
it needs at least one gigabit port.
and you could have a lightweight VOIP phone that runs forever. Sweet. Solar power computer FTW!
That website is hideous....whoever designed it should be fired. I am interested in buying it, but I don't even want to hit the button to see the next page.....can't we have a link to an all in one print page ?
Heh! "the fit-PC has very little horsepower, which makes it apt for web browsing and light applications; today's games need not apply."
;) Hell, why not buy a ton of 'em and start the next monthly/bi-monthly/whatever Quake 1 LAN in your area? That would be pretty damn cool IMO.
;)
Today's games? Pff.. It'll run Quake! Good enough for me.
But then again maybe I'm the only one who considers an install of Quake 1 a required part of installing a fresh copy of any OS...
You can compare it with the Zonbu http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm/ . The Zonbu PC has no HD, just 4 GB of flash and online storage (for a fee). The Fit-PC has a 40 GB HD; similar pricing for the hardware.
This architecture is becoming familar. The Koolu is $200 to $300, is a bit more mature (its expandable) and comes from Canada. This architecture makes for a great system as, for instance, a home web, file, and VOIP server. The AMD Geode has a great GPU, but a significant web app (especially with lots of animation) will severely tax the CPU's horsepower.
My core 2 Duo based laptop with 2 GBs of RAM eats 18 watts with *screen turned on*!
Laptops are really really cheap these days. I bought an Acer laptop for a family member, brand new from CompUSA, last month for $350 (It has an Intel CPU I forget which one). It will probably run circles around this thing and costs about the same (once you include the $40 shipping cost on fit PC) and consumes little additional power.
What is the point of this fit PC again?
This is a joke.
Go out and get a Dectop for less than half the price. Slightly weaker specs, and doesn't come pre-loaded, but does come with a keyboard and mouse. My Dectop is now functioning very nicely as a low-volume, silent (replaced the hd with a CF card & adapter), 5-watt LAMP web server.
And the Dectop looks better, too, IMHO.
o 1 Sig beneath your current threshold
Man I'm depressed now. This thing has higher specs then my laptop!
True, my laptop's 5 years old. But STILL! I'm now in the process of trying to talk my wife into letting me upgrade.
BTW: yes, works great for going online and writing non-graphical programs. (web sites, CLI) But useless for most action games. Tomb Raider plays fine on it though.
"That's so plausible, I can't believe it!" - Leela
Given it's stuck at 256MB RAM - which is sad. It's got a few other downsides like probably some bottleneck somewhere beween IO and the CPU. But it only draws 5 Watts and needs no active cooling which is really cool. Considering that this is a small company and they manage to offer their micropc for such a low price it is a really interesting device. 5 Watts ... my Eco-Bulb in my desklamp uses 7. Quite awesome actually.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The XO-1laptop, which also uses the Geode processor and draws 2-3W when running apparently - this system makes a nice desktop equivalent. Since often the screen on a laptop is the biggest power drain of the system, it would be nice to see a low-power screen available to go with it.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
This would be great for a lot of situations where you're using solar power to manage devices and want a WWW frontend or such. Could run this on a 10W ($100) panel without too much trouble.
Imagine a whole Beowulf cluster of these!
This machine runs quieter and cooler than your laptops, for one.
Whether that's worth the price/performance difference depends on the buyer.
It would also be more suited to running as a light-duty server or networking device than a laptop would.
while they may not be as small as this, they offer more flexibility as 256M RAM is not really going to run Win XP very well is it?
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
FitPC has nothing on these guys! http://www.picotux.com/
Adeptus
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
500 MHz?
Not sure how the Geode stacks up to the Athlon 64 clock-for-clock, but I have an Athlon 64 laptop with frequency scaling; it throttles down to 800 MHz to save power when not under load?
Guess what?
800 MHz is enough for practically everything.
On first impression this might be just what I've been looking for to sell as remote sensors to go with EasyIDS. I've been trying to find something with a small physical footprint for less than $350 for quite a while. Granted it doesn't have any Gb nics but chances are someone that is sniffing that much traffic is going to be using a commercial product anyways.
....maybe even for a proxy server?
Might also be able to use it for Endian Firewall or Proxmox
gentoo on this? Imagine updating your kernel :shudder:
Actually, the iPhone or the iPod Touch might be a closer comparison imho. The 5watt PC is a good deal less powerful (in both senses of the word) than the mac mini.
Of course, I know which one I'd take, if given the choice. For my money, getting a 5w computer is kinda pointless when I'm expected to hook it up to a desktop LCD which could easily use more than 10 times that much power.
Just for giggles, here's a point by point comparison:
5 watt PC vs iPhone/iPod Touch
$285 and up vs $299 and up
AMD Geode LX800 CPU @ 500 MHz vs ARM @ ~620Mhz
256 MB DDR (non expandable) vs 128MB? (non expandable)
40 GB 2.5" Hard disk vs 4,8 or 16 GB flash drive
Dual 100 Mbps Ethernet vs 802.11b/g, plus GSM/EDGE on iPhone
SXGA controller, 640x480 to 1920x1440 vs 320x480 built in multi-touch display and 480i or 576i video out
Two USB 2.0 high speed ports vs iPod dock port
Speaker and microphone interface vs Speaker and microphone built i on iPhone, plus headphone/mic jack
RS-232 serial port via RJ11 connector vs none
Single 5V supply, 3-5 watt, fanless vs battery operated, fanless?
120 x 116 x 40 mm, 450 gram vs 115 x 61 x 11.6mm 135g iPhone or 110 x 61.8 x 8mm 120g iPod
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
I understood that perfectly, however, it is still interesting to compare the two. They share quite a bit of hardware, even though they are for completely different applications. The processors differ by a speed grade, and they have the same amount of RAM. Where the XO-1 has wifi, the fit-pc has 2 ethernet ports. I'd guess the wifi probably costs a bit more. The XO-1 has 1Gb flash, whereas the fit-pc has a 40Gb hard drive. Again, I'd wager the flash is a bit more expensive than the hard drive. And when you add in the display and other components of the XO-1, it really makes the tiny-pc look over-priced. Also, is seems silly for the fit-pc to have an analog video output instead of digital.
But doesn't come with an Ethernet port.
I have keyboards and mice floating around, and don't need them for a NAS box or a router.
It's a nice box and all - I have a PIC, which is the first generation of the Dectop, have to boot it off a USB thumbdrive to get it running Linux. But the fit-PC has some points in its favor.
Depends on what you want it for. Hey, choice, what a concept.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
one glitch there, the iPhone ARM core is at 400MHz not 620, though it does still perform quite well
See here.
It's worth pointing out that the Dectop appears to be a recased derivative of the AMD PIC.
Read the reviews before buying to get an idea if it's a good fit, even though it IS cheap.
http://store.dataevolution.com/ReviewsList.asp?ProductCode=DT-7001&Reviews=Y
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Way to write an article about a 5W system and then forgetting to tell us the expected battery life.
... Vista?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I agree. I bought a $CDN 450 laptop a couple months ago. Loaded Mandriva on it and it runs very snappy. When I'm running under a regular load it consumes about 20 watts. That's for a 1.6 GHz P IV Celeron, with an Intel 950 GMA. Much more useful than what you get with this fit PC. Plus you can bring a laptop with you, and use it at the coffee shop and such. I don't imagine you can do the same with this one.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I cannot see how this computer would be all that much greener in the long run. Lets face it what is an extra 5-10 watts to have a faster machine, I cannot see that extra 5 watts making a massive difference to the environment, plus I am sure if you wanted to run you're box off the sun the extra $100 for another panel that supplies 5 watts is not going to kill you. I am all for low power greener machines but I think you need to still make more usable machines that are going to keep up with technology slightly better so that the machines themselves do not become junk.
I am curious to see how you can use this tiny PC as a phone, or at least how in the world you can use it by carrying around like a phone. You don;t seem to realize that with that PC you also need to carry around a monitor, a keyboard and mouse.
Actually, yes, because it is a lightweight PC. If you bother to read the article, you'll see that the company provides Windows drivers and you can indeed install Windows on it. The point of the device is not gaming though, it's light internet use or any of a dozen other things small-form-factor computers are good for.
And yes, I know you were trolling, but I can never resist feeding them these days.
Of course, I know which one I'd take, if given the choice. For my money, getting a 5w computer is kinda pointless when I'm expected to hook it up to a desktop LCD which could easily use more than 10 times that much power.
Why is that pointless?
When you want lots of power, use your regular computer which probably pulls 100-150W or so. Total power usage including LCD: 150-200W.
When you just want to do some light websurfing, turn on this thing. Total power usage including LCD: 55W. That seems like a significant improvement to me.
Of course, one might ask "Why not get a laptop instead? It'll use about the same amount of power, or maybe less." The answer is that to get a laptop screen of comparable resolution and quality you're going to have to pay a _lot_. Laptops are pricey, and the cheap ones have the lowest-resolution, crappiest screens (think Dell's consumer line), and having a nice big high-res screen is a good thing.
Mac Mini: 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo
Tiny-PC: 500Mhz Geode
Looks like about an eighth the processor and a quarter the RAM, for more than a third of the price.
Yeah, i see what you're saying, it's impossible to use less electricity so why bother trying! there's no point using fluorescent lights, cause that power will be sucked up by my tv anyway! there's no point getting an efficient car cause some fucking soccer mom is driving an suv! and so on.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
Might be a good candidate for m0n0wall w/ dual NIC.
Another lovely company that tricks you with outrageous shipping costs to artificially drop the "price" of the computer. Also, check out the super friendly support and warranty policies.
Do yourselves a favor and get a VIA-based mini-itx board for that kind of money.
Seems you can get a VB7001G (1.5Ghz) for about $130; add in $30 for 512MB of ram (2x the fitPC), and however much you feel like spending on a compactflash card, USB memory key, or smaller laptop drive. Say, $50 for a 60GB drive (more than the fitPC's 40). $40 for a picoPSU; $30 for a AC adapter. Buy a crap case for $30 if you don't have one you can use already. Install a gigabit NIC for under $20 (dunno if there are any cheap dual-interface gigabit NICs.) That's under $310, and quite a bit more bang for the buck. It probably won't be 5w, but it'll be well under 20w given that board seems to use about 10w.
If you want to go even cheaper, intel is fighting back against via, like with the D201GLY. It's $70, 1.3ghz celeron, DDR2 ram...
Please help metamoderate.
... until I saw the shipping cost. $95?!
Too bad, this thing would make an absolutely kickass DOS machine. (I'm serious! As long as the BIOS does USB/PS2 keyboard emulation.)
This is i believe a nano-itx. There is also a pico-itx which is slightly smaller, draws less power, ect. But i'm actually more interested in a Mobile-ITX which should come out next year, but was demoed at Computex earlier this year. They boasted it could run windowsXP drawing only 0.5Watts.
If i had one dollar for every brain you dont have, i would have $1.
wonder how well this would do in a car install. Use a smaller lcd touchscreen, hook up a gps thingie and i guess you are set? This way you can find your way around town or watch porn and crash your car at the same time!
Balderdash!
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
To me, the slight differences in watt consumption aren't the point, for my uses anyway. What I want is a fanless PC. With ethernet and a decent soundcard, and a PII/500MHz or faster, 256MB RAM, and maybe 1GB Flash, and a USB slot. I don't even need VGA: machines for display should be faster and beefier. And of course it should run Linux.
That gumstix looked cool. Are there more or better in its class, preferably under $150?
--
make install -not war
Its just a small SBC in a box. You can see the place to fit the PC/104 connector. Nothing amazing...
Ooh, I have one of these, and it's kind of a mixed bag. The people who make them don't really seem to have enough Linux experience to really set this thing up so that it makes sense out of the box, definitely buy it only if you're planning to reinstall Linux on it.
/etc/inittab. Damn. On to Ethernet though, surely it ships with an ssh server running out of the box? Nope. On to plugging in a keyboard and display...
I expected at least a serial terminal out of the box so that I wouldn't have to plug in a display. It has an RS232 port (via RJ11 jack and adapter cable), and it is a semi-embedded little box. However they didn't enable it in
It does come with Gentoo out of the box (not sure why they picked that distribution), with KDE (ugh) and some various other software. I used UNetbootin (http://lubi.sourceforge.net/unetbootin.html) to install Ubuntu via the network, because the BIOS that shipped on my Fit-PC didn't have working PXE boot (they've since fixed that). Afterward, I enabled the serial console and SSH server, configured the network interfaces, installed the applications I needed (SVN server) and stashed the Fit-PC somewhere and forgot about it, as I had originally intended.
Overall, I like the Fit-PC, but I wish they had taken more care with the out-of-box experience and even the PC itself (the reset button, for example, is not exposed, and there's no soft-power way to shut the thing off since it has no other buttons). I do like the dual network interfaces, RS232, and low power and quiet operation, but there are tons of other similar Geode-based boxes out there, so this isn't too unique.
Finally, the Geode is going away. I wonder what the next semi-embedded x86 chip of choice will be.
The Asus Eee PC is a sub-notebook with a better CPU and a minimum of 2GB of solid state disk space. Prices in the US start at $269.
I don't suppose you would have noticed that they're shipping from Israel? In which case, $40.00 isn't too bad.
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
Engadget had no evidence to support that claim. They looked at part numbers, that's all, and the part in question was rated at "up to" that speed.
Aaah, that explains why Linux is so big here
And why sex is speaken of so rarely.
Think the FitPC would be a much better fit to what I want in a small form factor X86 box for a bit less than what a similar Mini-ITX system goes for. The FitPC appears to consume less power than the lowest power Mini-ITX systems - should be able to get several hours of run-time off of a motorcycle battery.
And if I just need to plug in my cable modem, I could save my $10 and use the USB connector.
Shouldn't be that hard to plug in a USB to ethernet adapter. If you really want three hard wired ethernet ports, you're probably better off getting a Soekris.Comrade! We have detected you using mathematics and logic to stop an anti-Apple tirade! Please be advised: this is Slashdot. Apple sells only massively overpriced hardware. Pointing out that Apple sells something equivalent to its actual value, instead of the fantasy-land price that internet geeks believe it should cost (id est, free) is double-plus-ungood. We here at the Ministry for Nerdy Indignation hope that you will reconsider your eminently logical position and join with us in our outrage that Apple does not price their products at Mom's Basement prices. Thank you.
IAALS.
There is a similar-looking computer that uses 1.8 watts called Aleutia.
my movie playing pc is running on 196 mb and xubuntu, runs ok. if anything i'd say the processor is a bit slow for movies though, my last attempt at a tv box was a 466 and i couldn't get it to play movies without choppyness, even when i went back to win95 with the fastest codecs i could find (admittedly with this config it was *almost* there).
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
Remember, the XO-1 is always discussed at wholesale prices, while the Fit-PC is discussed at retail.
The Core 2 Duo U2000 series are 1.06-1.20 GHz single-core CPUs that are rated at 5.5 watts TDP. That's a little more than the Geode, but the C2D U2000 will absolutely run circles around the K7 Tbred-based Geode. I'd think that a U2000 with a low-power chipset like the 945GMS (yes I know, terrible graphics compared to the AMD unit's...) would do a tad better.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
Now that you mention it, a UPS is another separate thing you don't need if you use a laptop. It'll run for several hours with the lid closed and automatically suspend when the battery gets too low. Recently some goober at work blipped the power without warning anybody because he was installing some equipment, and everybody not on a laptop lost their work. (Granted they should have been using UPSs).
If you're comparing them based on the amount of RAM or processor speed you're being a little less than "eminently logical".
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
Exactly. I picked up a Dell laptop with a broken screen for a song to replace a desktop that's on 24x7. Dropped in a 60GB drive, turned on noatime, and consumption is only 13W with the lid closed (12W once the drive spins down.) And that's at 1.2GHz; I can turn it down for even more savings if necessary.
Indeed... and on the surface, you're completely correct; however...
Two words:
dual
ethernet
As much as I love my Macs... and I *do* love 'em. The current Mac Minis are useless as dedicated firewalls as they only have one NIC.
Running 'Nix is like owning a Lightsaber. It's "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time."
I'm writing this on a PIII-800MHz that I've had for a while. I didn't buy it new, I went out and found it, dirt cheap, to do basically what this Fit-PC is aiming to do. I'm running Fedora and mainly it's just for surfing, email and some BitTorrenting. As for gaming and such... Well obviously these are not the computers your looking for, move along. Still these lightweights are useful for this purpose, but it's a very narrow use. But then again, $285!
Someone above mentioned the Mac Mini and that's a good point, but also it bears mentioning that these two systems are at very different price points. True they are both below $1000, which to me (being of a certain age) that seems super cheap, but $599 vs. $285, the Mac is over twice the money, and while it may be a better computer, it is not the most affordable. To me I think the trade-off in dollar/MHz would be invisible between the two given the purpose, the Mac's higher price reflects a more "complete" computer. Apple built down from the iMac to a price whereas this Fit-PC built up to theirs.
Just a thought
Competing against desktops and laptops that have 5 x the power for just another 100 or so, and it is difficult to justify this. Instead, they should be targeting flash ram and network devices. A good example is a mythtv client. But a slightly different one, would be to use POE (power over ethernet) to provide the power for a diskless system. Much easier to do.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I don't suppose you would have noticed that they're shipping from Israel? In which case, $40.00 isn't too bad.
Who said they're shipping from Israel? They probably have a US distributor; they'd be stupid not to, as otherwise it means the customer pays duties and deals with customs headaches.
Even if they are shipping from Israel, it still means the thing costs $320+. Besides, even in Israel, they're charging $20. That's highway robbery.
Please help metamoderate.
Turning off wifi, the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad X60 1.83GHz uses ~12W with screen on. With wifi ~15W. This without trying to optimize anything.
Laptops typically need active cooling. Many cheap laptops are inadequately cooled and won't run indefinitely without being switched off. This PC is entirely passively cooled. That's a big plus for many applications (think digital media playback). It's also less than a quarter the size of an average laptop, meaning that for people like me who cannot stand to work with laptop keyboards and small displays it's a better solution. Of course the negatives (slow processor, lack of expandability) are significant, but if it works for your app it's probably ideal.
I think it's a waste to use a mac mini as a firewall, but if you where so inclined couldn't you just toss a USB->Ethernet adapter on the mini and call it a day?
> WRT54 doesn't have a 40 GB hard drive for logging
..and the wrt54g has 5 ports built in. It's pretty tricky to set them up for anything but the basic lan switching though.
It'll log to a remote machine though. Similar devices have USB for an external drive too.
> I don't know how much a WRT54 would cost if they added a 40 GB laptop drive,
I don't think you can add one, but others can...but it will log to an existing machine for centralised system management.
Max.
and it is sure useful in some applications, but other may be hindered by the lack of a PCI slot or two...
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Are you sure the 110W you quote isn't the number of Watts the power brick is rated, instead of its actual use? If you Google for
power consumption "mac mini" "power meter"
then you'll find much lower values, which - while varying for the various types of mini and use - are much, much lower that the value of 110 W you report.
Bert
The ones I saw don't have a hard disk, they had a slot for CF cards to act as a hard drive. They're very lightweight too, and fully supported by Linux. If these take off they could very well become a very inexpensive PC for people who don't need dual core multi-gigahertz systems.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/13/teacher-faces-40-yea.html
Bert
Good point; according to Apple my new iMac uses 280 W max., but in practice it's more like 120 W. Which is quite low compared to my old PC + 19" CRT, who did a nice 225 W together.
-- Cheers!
Yeah and of course everybody leaves his monitor connected to his server and switched on at all times ;)
-- Cheers!
Looks like the Technologic Systems TS-7300 with the battery back-up PC-104 board - including the T.S. logo on the front of the case. T.S. has just started shipping a board with a 500 MHz ARM-9, which would be about 3X faster than the 7300, but would need the VGA add-on board.
Is that a review?! There wasn't any information in that very short piece of text, spread out over far too many pages, that I couldn't have come up with myself. "It becomes slow when we run a big office suite and firefox on it and open more than 6 windows." What would you expect? I think the fact that it is still useable with that much load is a testament to the quality of even todays cheap hardware.
-- Cheers!
What does get warm is the external power supply - I wonder how many watts that consume ? 5 watts for the machine itself, something for the screen, something for the PSU. What is the total consumption ?
Soekris has a whole lineup of single-board machines with this processor. The prices are pretty reasonable, and they have cases and a some accessories. Netgate makes wireless hardware kits for Soekris aystems. Soekris made the hardware for the MIT RoofNet project.
The details are that it doesn't have an ethernet port on the box itself - instead, it comes with a USB 1.1 ethernet adapter that can't do 100 Mbps. But not a big deal for most internet connections, I suppose.
Seems to use a pc104 setup. All-in-all however, I would rather build my own with solid state storage
You could also compare it with the NorhTec MicroClient which also uses a 500MHz AMD Geode LX800 CPU and which, they claim, only consumes 0.9 watts of power. The options you choose would probably affect its power consumption. It runs on 12-Volts which might make it suitable for a solar project that has 12-volt deep cycle batteries.
For ranchers or other people who live in remote locations far from any power lines, it might be useful. Some of those people rely on solar panels, backup generators and deep cycle batteries for their power. They do not have power to waste.
If either the peak-oil pessimists or the global warming people turn out to be correct, then such extreme energy efficiency might possibly become necessary somewhere within my lifetime. Perhaps neither scenario will ever really happen.
My 20-inch LCD flatscreen monitor (not a wide sceen) uses about 38-Watts while I am at the computer and then only uses 1-Watt when it goes blank in the sleep mode. It spends the majority of the day with the screen blank and only using 1-Watt. I do not personally know much about either company or their computers.
NorhTec MicroClient - New Version
I had a laptop as a server (yes...). I rebooted it weekly. What exactly are you talking about? Even overclocked laptops don't need shut off to not overheat.
Great Intellect...
Very customer friendly, i must say. This caught my attention in particular:
"Warranty could be exercised only once per purchased product"
Is this legal?
http://www.ewayco.com/
...
They seem to be more cost efficient compared to most of the other companies mentioned here, although their order system is a little unclear.
To get clear specs, you also have to mail them, and their website looks like web 0.5
I wonder if this would have enough power to run Emule or uTorrent. A 24/7 p2p server that only uses 6 watts of electricity. That small HD could be a problem though. Would like to substitute a 1 TB HDD.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Definitely. Though for many broadband setups you do not need the second ether because you can use a PPTP, PPPoE or L2TP relay if supported on the modem.
As far as the article is concerned it is a demo how not to use such a system. What a bunch of clueless wankers.
Xterm, pulseaudio (reminds me I should put the instructions for setting it on my website) and run the damn thing diskless booting over the network. All of my machines in the house run this way booting of a dedicated server which holds the disk space and runs the applications. Even the laptop when in the house is booted this way and not off its own disk. As a result even something as slow as a Transmeta @800 or Via@400 is more than enough. My firewall and my development boxes also operate this way. I have used this approach for nearly 5 years now and while it takes some effort to setup the maintenance is many times less compared to anything else. You set it once and after that it just works.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Warranty could be exercised only once per purchased product.
Wow - that's douchebaggery.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I wish I had modpoints for left the parent! All power supplies are classified with their MAXIMUM power output. If all the PCs in the world were using all the rated watts of their power supplies this would be a much less green world. 110W on the supply Box are on the cautionary side, it's very likely the Mac mini uses normally around a quarter of that (It's mostly made out of notebook components afterall). Eiapoce as AC
I am also somewhat sceptical of something with a mechanical hard drive claiming to only use 5W.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Exactly, I picked up a bag of sand some oil, and I had some chemicals and a chip processing facility floating around in my garage. And I was able to make a computer for pennies on the dollar...
STOP COMPARING PRICES OF USED/SLIGHTLY DAMAGED COMPUTERS WITH NEW ONES!!!!! It is not a fair comparison. Because in time I can get a used or slightly damaged version of the fit-PC and save more money, on parts (assuming your time is worthless)
Clap Clap you can nuy someone modern computers for cheap, while other people buy very modern computer for not so cheap. You save so much money see how smart you are. You can play all the games made 2 or more years ago, smooth without any problems, especially with the fact the monitor can only support 1024x768.
Some people like having new hardware. 5-Watt 13 Watt it uses only 38% of the power. which is good especially if you need a lot of computers running non cpu critical things.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
My PPC 1.25 ghz G4 Mac Mini draws ~14W at idle and ~31W when its CPU is maxed about by distributed.net RC5 client. I measured this w/my Kill A Watt (http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html).
decTOP is selling FOUR for $300+S&H right now. It's got less specs, but I use mine just fine with its USB 1.1 and USB ethernet.
I think fit-PC might be more interesting if it were sub-$200. Because processor-wise it is comparable to the decTOP. It only has slightly more RAM and a slightly bigger hdd. I don't think USB 2.0 and Ethernet suddenly makes something $200 more expensive.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Mini-ITX form factor is 6.7" x 6.7", this one has a 4.7" x 4.5" (x 1.5) case.
So it's closer to Nano-ITX with 4.7" x 4.7" but this one is even smaller. I don't know which size the motherboard actually has, but if it's an ITX it can only be Pico-ITX but it's probably some embedded computing form factor like ETX.
"Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
Your server has a monitor? How quaint :-)
... that's pretty paltry for the money.
You can pick up a Via C3-based cpu, board, and chassis for a little under $80. Another $100 will get you a gig of RAM and a 25-gig hard drive. In other words, twice the CPU power, four times the RAM, and six times the drive space, and all for $100 less.
Yeah, I know - that would use more than 5 watts. But considering that everything in the machine except the CPU is nearly free, I wouldn't have expected it to have that sort of price tag. Ah, well. I guess they have to make up for low quantities.
Now, if they just had a usable display with a similar power draw, THAT would be nice.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Does it run Doom?
Not true. While 110W is indeed what's written on the power brick, measurements for my 1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo Mac Mini report about 20W while idle and a little over 30W under load.
Also, it seems to me that except for dual ethernet, the Mac Mini is better equipped than the Fit-PC:
- 1 GB of RAM
- 120 GB Hard Disk
- DVI
- 4 USB, 1 Firewire 400
- Optical audio in/out
- Built-in 54-Mbps wireless networking
- Built-in Bluetooth 2.0
Oh, and a little thing called OS X! ;-)
Don't get me wrong, I think the Fit-PC is an interesting and has its uses but, in my opinion, saying it's cheaper compared to the Mac Mini misses the point altogether.
Idle on a laptop hard drive is typically around 0.5-1W, peaking at 2-3W during writes. Spin up could consume 5W on its own, albeit briefly. The CPU only uses 0.9W, so I don't think 5W would be an unreasonable number for normal operation.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
There's no such thing as a Pentium 4 Celeron! Pentium 4, or Celeron, but not both...
I was researching this the other day. I was trying to find a replacement for my VIA EPIA SP8000E (it's a piece of junk; almost everything causes it to freeze or not boot).
Requirements: Low power consumption. Low noise. Enough juice to run a decent web browser. Linux-compatible. Cheap.
Being fed up with VIA, I first looked to laptops. Power consumption about 20 Watts, good. Need to be a bit more careful about the noise, but you can find quiet laptops no problem. Any laptop probably smokes the SP8000E performance-wise, so that's good too. However, I couldn't find a decent laptop for under around 500 euros, even second hand.
Eventually, I bought a Jetway J7F2-EDEN fanless motherboard/cpu combo, a nice case with a passive power supply, and a gig of RAM for about 300 euros. Disks, display, and keyboard will be taken from my old system, as they would have been in the case of a laptop. Power consumption should be about 20 Watts. The system has no moving parts other than the disks. Performance ought to be better than what I have. And it's cheap.
So, I guess, there's something for everyone. If you want to carry the system, or are OK using a laptop screen, keyboard, and mouse-substitute, get a laptop. Will be about 500 euros. If you don't want to carry it and want full-size input devices and screen, get a system like the one I got. Will also cost you about 500 euros if you have to buy the disk, keyboard, mouse, and monitor. If you want _really_ low power consumption and a PC, get the one mentioned in the story. Again, it will be around 500 euros, including monitor, disk and input devices. Word of warning: I work with machines like that at work and they are really really slow for today's standards.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
as that is what a typical bicycle-dynamo produces. Providing you make the OS safe and running from solid state memory - which should significantly less than a few watts - you could install it on your bike ;=)
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
I built something similar back in 2000/2001 (back then, such embedded boards sported a 200 MHz Cyrix GXm CPU — man were such embedded boards expensive!). Used that beast in my car as an MP3 player with 30 Gigs of HD space. Look for the string "MPorty" with your favourite search engine. Sadly, the two Linux magazine articles were taken offline since. I'm taking my old MPorty web page online for a while so if anyone's interested...
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
I've had multiple laptops that overheat after about 10-12 hours of use. I've even had one that would shut off after 1 hour if you left it directly on a table: you had to put it on top of something to give it enough space for the airflow to its (tiny) cooling fan that was located on the bottom of the case. I agree that there are laptops that don't have this problem, but there are also laptops that do.
This looks a lot like the Linutop: http://www.linutop.com/
Same price too, but it has more usb ports.
Anyway. I'd be more interested in this fitPC if it had considerably more RAM.. say 512 or 1G.
* It's actually more like 20-40 times.
Camping on quad since 1996.
I recently built a mini itx system based around a via 1.5 ghz processor to do the same basic tasks the fit-pc is designed to handle. The fit isnt a bad box, it's just that it isn't really anythything new or innovative. Looks to me like they took a pico-itx board, slapped on a laptop hard disk and called it a system. The price is good for the size, but you can build a system with a way better processor, more ram and add a CF to IDE adapter so you can go without moving parts.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
And quite a bit bigger too.
If you want super small, you have to make some compromises.
Replace that HD with flash, and i can see a nice little dedicated industrial monitoring style machine you can stick out most anywhere and not worry about it. And in that market, 300 isnt that expensive.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What you seem to be trying to say is that Mac Mini is better value for money, but value depends on what you're using it for.
If you need the lowest possible power consumption, space, and the widest range of operating temperatures, then Fit-PC is better value for money.
If you need a normal PC for regular users, but you want to think that it's a special PC for special users, then a Mac Mini is going to be better value for money.
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
So where can I get these in the USA?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
No one ever thought of, perhaps Apple did their own custom ARM based on the Samsung?
Brother-In-Mac-Zealotry! Desist from this blasphemous recitation of empirical evidence which heaps dishonor and opprobrium upon the pure titanium shininess of whatever crap Apple has sold to us. Mere mathematics and energy efficiency are sins of the flesh which must not sully the discourse concerning the One True Hardware Monopolist or the Doctrines of Jobs.
Anyway, global warming isn't happening fast enough to convince the skeptics so it's necessary that we do our bit by using 20 times as much power to browse slashdot. We've all got to do our bit.
Comparing clock speed in one processor to the clock speed in another processor has never been completely accurate in estimating actual system speed (example: Compare a 10 MHz 8088 to a 10 MHz 80286 and you'll find the latter is FAR faster).
Today, it's even more ludicrous to say that a 500 MHz processor is "about an eighth the processor" of a dual-core 1.83 GHz processor. Clock speed is only one factor (of many) that determines actual speed. Simple comparisons of clock speed only make the comparer look simple.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Looks like this might be a great host for a SlimServer based MP3 system. Anybody know how well the server software performs on this box?
You do know that you are still using a VIA product?
I use one of these at home with an almost complete Debian install on a USB memory stick:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-3341342.html
US$200, no fan noise, very low power.
As many have pointed out, if you purchase an entire system with power consumption as a priority, you can achieve a lower total power consumption. But for US$200, I've cut my 'check email, look up something on Wikipedia' power consumption by two orders of magnitude since I don't need a workstation for that.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
Dual LAN?
The dual 100MBit ports do make it sound like an ideal candidate for an OpenBSD/[insert Linux distro here] router. I'd love to see more in depth specs on throughput, etc.
Yes, you can use it as a router for your 57.6k modem bank.. it's perfect!
The AppleTV
- Can run Linux.
- costs $300.
- has digital audio and video out.
- Can play 480p, 540p, 720p videos. I think 1080i as well, but I don't have that screen.
- Running Linux allows web, email, and playing DVD's (vlc) (external drive).
The new Intel MB with an embedded Celeron processor has far better performance at a lower cost. Try this:
$46.99 - Hard drive - 40GB, 5400rpm Seagate
28.99 - 1GB Memory - Corsair DDR2 533
69.50 - MB - Intel D201GLY, Celeron 1.33
54.95 - Fanless power supply - picoPSU-120
59.95 - Case - M300
$260.38 - Total - Shipping NOT included
Far better performance, reasonable power consumption (~25w), small and silent
Or, if you prefer single stop shopping, try this.
-- "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - R.A.H.
I can think of literally hundreds of applications for a box like this. True, if you want to browse the web and keep your total wattage in or near the single digit watt range, you may as well work on a PDA or PDA_like device. On the other hand, you throw watts into your 21" LCD for a good reason: to get a bright display. Why throw watts into a CPU that can run the latest 3D games if all you are doing is browsing the web?
There is the possibility of using other kinds of displays that don't consume much power. High contrast, non-backlit monochrome LCDs, small PDA sized panels, even e-Paper.
However the greatest range of uses for a device like this would be those in which being able to connect a display would be an occasional convenience, for example monitoring, logging and numerical control. You could put one of these suckers out in the boonies as a remote weather station, and run it off a solar panel and batteries. It'd make a nice packet logger, firewall, print server, or combination thereof. Most print servers I've used have been complete crap.
Finally, I think this makes a very nice prototyping platform for in-vehicle applications where you can't draw unlimited amps. With little more than a wire stripper, a GPS, an off the shelf TFT display, and some open source geographic software, I could put together a prototype in vehicle navigation system very quickly. Or headless it could be used for vehicle position logging.
Seriously, I could come up with a hundred viable applications for this in an afternoon, no sweat.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Unfortunately, the RAM on the FIT-PC is non-expandable - you're stuck with the 256MB, so there will be applications you can't run effectively even if you're happy with the 500 MHz. I don't know if they soldered it on or what, but they don't even _sell_ a larger-RAM option. The disk is probably replaceable with a larger one if you need to, and the slow CPU is IMHO just fine for a lot of applications, but the RAM limit is annoying.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
USB 1.1 maxes out somewhere between 6 to 8 Mbps of throughput, which would be adequate for surfing but would limit a router throughput to maybe 3 Mbps (bits have to go both ways). Emphatically not in the same league as the fit-PC. Contrast this to some embedded boards coming with gigabit ethernet adapters.
my Athlon Xp mobile 1800+, run at 1,5 GHZ. But if I do "powercfg.exe /change profile /processor-throttle-ac CONSTANT" with winxp, it run at 654MHz. It's enough for old games for example.
"Not if you're on a budget."
Then you could buy a MacMini on e-bay for just a little more than the Fit PC.
"The current Mac Minis are useless as dedicated firewalls as they only have one NIC."
The Fit PC doesn't make a great router/firewall either. It has a hard drive. Something that wears out. For 24/7 operation a compact flash solution like on a Soekris box is better for this role. Plus you get more ports, is expandable with a 3.3V PCI and Mini PCI. And most of the Soekris boxes cost less than the Fit PC too.
No. $450 CND is more like $460 USD.
-Phing
No, do not buy anything made by VIA. Mini-ITX is great, but I just got burned by VIA's southbridge DMA bug that they have not fixed in THREE years, nor do they make any attempt at looking like they care. Do yourself a favor and buy a Mini-ITX board, any board, without VIA chips on it.
Here it is, in all 21 pages of glory starting back in 2004: http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.aspx?catid=28&threadid=60131&STARTPAGE=21&enterthread=y
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
Correction.
I'm assuming the original poster was referring to Canadian dollars, which is abbreviated CAD not CDN or even CND. In any case, I don't think the Fit PC was meant as a laptop replacement or a replacement for a power hungry PC. It's designed to fit a particular market niche.
It seems like when any new market niche comes along, similar to OLPC (One Laptop Per Child), people bash the price point for which it is offered and unfairly compare it to a budget laptop currently available on the market. Similar to the design requirements of the OLPC (affordable AND durable!), the Fit PC was designed with specific goals in mind (size AND power consumption; NOT necessarily portability). Just because you can buy an equally green laptop for the same or cheaper price doesn't mean it will work in an environment which requires specific requirements. Think before you immediately poo-poo on an idea that doesn't fit your personal particular goals/budget.
-Phing
But Everex has a Via-based desktop PC that draws 2 watts average, 20 watts peak, and absolutely out-specs this little guy--for $300. And you can pick it up at Wal-Mart. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7754613 1.5GHz Via C-7 80GB hard disk, SATA 1GB RAM Dual-Layer DVD±RW 10/100 Ethernet 56K Modem Windows Vista (included even if you consider it throwaway) It only really loses on the side factor, of course.
ARM parts have lacked horsepower vs x86, but the newer multi-code devices (http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2917028234.html) will change that.
Small too. A whole system (CPU + RAM + some peripherals) can fit on a DIMM stick, or even on a single chip with stacked parts. Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these in a regular laptop size case. Want a low power system for web and mail? Load just one module. Want a high performance gaming/ scientific workstation? Load all the module slots.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I want something exactly like this but with wi-fi that I can use as a simple home router and lightweight home/web server. Any ideas?
So go to MadTux and get a real PC for less. 512MB of RAM, 16x DVD+-RW, 80 GB hard drive, Vector Linux installed, and 60 days of email support for $281.99 with a Sempron 3000+.
There are other models and they can all be configured somewhat, too. What you get from MadTux is bigger and uses more power, but it's a lot more computer for the money. It's also vastly more expandable.
If you really need silent, low-power, and small, this FitPC is quicker than building your own EPIA case but not as fun. There are lots of PC/104 and EBX systems out there that don't cost much more. It appears that this is very similar to what Ampro, Winsystems, Via, and others are already doing, but at a good price. EMAC's PCM-5893 isn't much more in single unit quantities.
It looks like they (Compulab) are making the boards themselves since they are SBC builders. In quantity they probably could get close to these final prices by OEMing the boards and sticking them in project cases.
This PC is actually a rebranding of the ENC-iGLX it seems. You can also buy just the innards from Compulab, too. If you don't mind XScale instead of Geode and can handle 312Mhz, they have a system with 1 ethernet and wifi for $199.
Gumstix is much more interesting IMO, but this is a nice little box as far as PC compatibles go.
That said, I did just plonk down the cash for a Fit-PC. I'm hopeful that it will indeed live up to the expectations being set for it.
As for it having a hard drive. Eh. Doesn't bother me. Flash RAM may not have moving parts, but it can and indeed does go bad. Parts--moving or not--failing is par for the course in most anything, even things with what most folks would consider "zero" technology. (Things like glue failing on a chair and falling on your rumpus.)
Running 'Nix is like owning a Lightsaber. It's "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time."
The Geode SC1100 is going away. This was a little 266Mhz i586 cpu. The New LX800 that this is based on is a system on chip that runs at 500Mhz. It IS the replacement.
To boldly use to and too two times and get it right too! They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see it there!
Dude, get over it. No one (at least, no one technical enough to be on Slashdot) says that anymore. You may get one person making that claim (which, by the way, the great-grandparent post didn't), but you'll get ten people calling him or her wrong. Mac users need to get over their persecution complex.
Property is theft.
FitPC has USB.
-- You can add a usb wifi peripheral to turn it into an Access Point.
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=785329
-- add a usb/ethernet
for a DMZ with three ethernets...
usb ethernet example: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F5D5050-Networking-Ethernet-Adaptor/dp/B000062R4P
disclaimer: I just googled, no idea about linux compatibility of these particular devices.
USB makes this completely flexible...
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
TS-3300 pc/104 hardware 750ma.
http://nxdos.sourceforge.net/
Does it come with OS/2, half an operating system?
Let's face it, the FitPC is a pretty limited machine for the price.
You can put a IDE Flash disk into a Soekris net4801 too. I've done that. That saves the burden of installing on to a CF. I always have a DMZ on my networks so I need the 3rd network port. Plus I put a encryption accelerator card in the Soekris too. Their boxes have worked well for me. But, of course, YMMV.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
17-inch backlit LCD will cost you 20 watts. Doh!
Mac Mini: 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo
Tiny-PC: 500Mhz Geode
Apple TV: 1Ghz single, 256MB RAM, 40GB Hdd, No optical drive, etc...
Seems like they took the AppleTV specs and made a low-power version.
Why do Slashdotters insist on comparing apples and oranges?