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Maryland To Tax Custom Programming and Computer Services
mcwop writes "Early this morning Maryland passed legislation to apply a new 6% sales tax to 'custom computer programming' and other computer- and hardware-related services. Computer industry groups lobbied hard against the measure to no avail. Purchasers of IT services may find that in-house IT and buying out-of-state become attractive options, as well as cutting money out of other projects."
since companies have to pay a use tax for those cases
So, no more development companies opening up in Maryland then? Smart move MD!
Great, now our politicians want outsourcing.
I do custom programming work in Missouri. All you Maryland folks can call me for tax-free work.
Oh, and congratulations to the Maryland government for chasing those pesky high-paying jobs out of your state. I'm sure your citizens will thank you.
Well, if they wanted to send all the programmers away, they just did it. With all the outsourcing to India and out of US, it was already a problem to keep a job before that, now that they introduced taxes, it's just got a lot harder.
I don't see why this tax would do anything other than push computer related jobs out of the state and/or overseas.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Put your money where your mouth is and stop paying ALL your taxes. Fight the power!
Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
But if we simplify the tax code, that would benefit the rich! --- Actual barrier to reform.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
And hopefully by not paying, make the power collapse under its own grotesque weight. Worthless fuckers
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
In one case, it adds to the cost of hiring a contractor, thus raising the price of short or quick contract work (bad for contractors). On the other hand, hiring an in-house IT guy to do coding (which I'd assume isn't taxed beyond normal income taxes) may seem better, which perhaps means more permanent jobs.
Stupid taxes are still stupid, but is this one good or bad for the IT sector in general?
You can't move an awful lot of government programming offsite. It's where it is. There is a gigantic amount of government work in MD so the state sees a big juicy way to tax the Federal government (and itself) to suck some money into their own pockets.
As freelance coders such as Hiro Protagonist move underground, while the government falls apart.
Maryland gets you coming or going. I wonder what those congresmen do to the hookers
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You don't pay a custom programming tax on "Word" or "Windows" or "Linux" and probably not for "Infinium" or "TMS" or "PKMS".
So this will be another factor boosting the use of packages by companies.
Given the enormous crunch coming for labor in general and programmers in particular, this is pretty much a nail in the coffin for one sector of business in that state. And as some companies successfully use packages, that will be used a model for other companies elsewhere.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
if they structured it anything like the sales tax, then there's an accompanying "use tax" of equal percentage. Generally speaking, states charge x% tax on anything purchased in the state payable at the point of sale, but also charge x% on the dollar value for all items purchased out of state and brought into the state, payable on tax forms. If they set up the same plan in this case, than buying out-of-state merely delays the tax due date by some time interval less than a year but doesn't change the amount owed.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
I would like someone to justify how that is a troll. I sincerely believe what I wrote above. If this offends you, that is not my fault.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
... is the price that we Marylanders have to pay for returning one-party rule to the state. This tax is part of a $1.3 billion tax package that our "rock star" governor called a special session to get. In addition, he just increased the sales tax by 20 percent, an increase that disproportionately impacts poorer folks, the very people who the governor and his party keep telling me they deeply care about.
But they help to pay for infrastructure, education, healthcare and maps and such.
For the future of our children.
Privacy is terrorism.
To sum up, less attractive to business, higher cost of living, more of the economy goes underground and out of the tax system, precident of selecting specific service industries to be taxed at special rates and the corruption that will engender, and overall economic damage to MD. Brilliant.
We have had 5% Provincial Sales Tax on computer programming services in Saskatchewan for a few years now. And the 6% Federal GST as well.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
If only there was some way to write the code out-of-state, and then transfer it to the buyer in Maryland... ... like a big series of tubes ...
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Having lived and owned a home for nearly ten years in Maryland, one of the most taxed states in the nation, this doesn't surprise me in the least.
It's one more reason for those heavily dependent on government services to flock to and continue to live in the state, and those who are actually productive to leave. And it's a downward spiral, they'll kill their small businesses and find new things to tax when they can't balance the budget for the umpteenth year in a row.
But the people of Maryland will keep voting the same bozos into office that will continue this spiral. Watching the election ads there was hilarious -- they catered to imbeciles like I've never seen -- and it worked.
Hell, it's a microcosm for our entire stinking, failing republic-turned-democracy.
Man, I'm bitter. But who wouldn't be?
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
Um, no. The feds are in DC.
And most programming shops in the area are in Northern Virginia. The few that are left in Maryland will move to Virginia, too.
The only programming strength Maryland has is in Biotech, and there's no reason that can't move to Virginia, too.
Lies about crimes
Art. 10. That freedom of speech and debate, or proceedings in the Legislature, ought not to be impeached in any Court of Judicature.
Art. 40. That the liberty of the press ought to be inviolably preserved; that every citizen of the State ought to be allowed to speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that privilege.
Methinks the gov wants to prepare for BRAC and have the mechanisms in place to milk all those new jobs..
Here's hoping Delaware isn't so stupid as to not take advantage of this.. Especially with the housing armageddon fixing to annihilate a ton of credit-related jobs...
I can look out of my window and across the Inner Harbor to "Tide Pointe," which is supposed to be Baltimore's pride-and-joy "technology incubator." We also have a new "technology high school" somewhere in the city; a sexier term, I guess, than the old "Polytechnic" of yore. I guess the technologies--and the technologists-- will now be incubated in Delaware. Some friend sent me a list of fifty appropriate new state mottoes. Maryland's is now even more appropriate: "Maryland--if you can dream it, we can tax it."
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
Hi, I'm in Maryland, and I'll cut your lawn for $25,000 and throw in a custom eCommerce system absolutely free!
technical writing / development
It'll be a long time before the state feels the pain of this - its simply too good for them to pass up. MD is a host to many gov subcontractors that write *nothing but* custom code for projects. They'll feed off of the teat of subcommittee wins for those projects until nearby states figure out a way to coax those offices over the border. Probably to Delaware, which is traditionally business-friendly (although trending away).
So frankly, this simply crunches the contractor work a bit. Many feel it is just closing a loophole.
What I want to know is how does one define "customization" ? Macro? Shell script? showing someone how to download something? installing something? Eh...
No, really - I live here, and this is just the latest. This is part of a plan to cover a $1B+ gap in the budget. The new Governor proposed raising taxes to cover the gap AND increasing spending on various social programs. Spending cuts? Not even on the radar.
Even better is that 90%+ of the tax burden falls on 1 county (albeit one of the richest ones in the country). And the county delegates to the legislature - you know, the ones who represent the citizens - offered token resistance then rolled over and took it "for the good of the Democrats...errr, the State".
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
I think I shall start advertising in Maryland. Remote support (linux,windows), rsync backups, VPNs, Desktop support... NZ$ fees will look more attractive than when buying these services from other States, too.
They tried the same thing here in my State: so far it's been voted down. Our Governor claimed that the State could bring in an extra 50 million a year if they taxed such services. That would only work for a year or so, because all the people like me would immediately look for greener pastures. I mean, for crying out loud, if the goal is to efficiently remove the ability of in-state companies to avail themselves of local software talent, this is a great idea. From any other perspective, it's just mind-bogglingly stupid.
In any event, I'm really tired of our taxing bodies looking for every possibly opportunity to increase their take, regardless of the effect it will have on the local population. Only a complete fucktard who is totally ignorant of what he or she is doing could possibly propose such regulation. Of course, I just described your typical politician. They are ignorant and they really don't care.
I did some contract work recently (software only), and the head accountant requested my Tax I.D. so they could apply the proper sales tax. I told them they couldn't have it because, as of this date, custom software was not taxable. Had my lawyer verify that, and I faxed them a copy of the appropriate language (right from the Department of Revenue Web site.) They were surprised, because they had been told by their people that custom software was taxable. I figure I saved them some few bucks.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Many many many posters on Slashdot are leftist/progressive's. This is your chance to increase the redistribution of wealth. You should thank Maryland by moving there and doing contract work.
I obviously didn't mod you, but I would guess it's because you are advocating that people do something which is illegal and illogical, since not paying taxes would be a very bad thing overall since I enjoy our social contract, corrupt as it is. You're also insulting to the government of Maryland, offensive in general and insulting of those who don't support your position. Insulting and offensive while lacking useful content isn't technically trolling, but it should be modded down and there's no option that fits, so the mod could have chosen troll because it fit the closest. Personally, I wouldn't have modded you down, but I don't think it's inappropriate.
Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the speculations
1. I don't think something being illegal has any kind of correlation to its morality or ethical standpoint and its only illogical if I agree that the social contract is desirable as it stands, you may enjoy the social contract but I think its corruption mandates its dismantling.
2. Why is insulting a government a bad thing? Who can give me an argument that insulting a government is a bad thing unless the insult is malicious whereas I view it as legitimate.
3. No one has a right to not be offended, I think my position, while perhaps offensive to some, is legitimate.
4. I do not see where I insulted those who disagree with me.
I do not think my comment deserved to be modded troll. I think the moderation was based on the opinion expressed and not based on the spirit it was given in, which was honest.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
The Computing Technology Industry Association should look into filing a case in federal Court claiming the new tax violates the Insterstate Commerce Clause. It might work if they can show that a sufficient amount of the work that will be taxed actually crosses state lines (they'd have to show a number of other things too). It's a longshot, but might be worth a try. In any case, 0% up to 6%?! Good work Maryland legislature. Morons!
Call your representatives. And write them a letter.
One of mine had a staffer to answer the phone, and she said she felt betrayed by her representative. She said "I don't know what they were thinking; it doesn't make any sense what they did". She urged me to write a letter.
My other two representatives didn't have the balls to answer the phone.
For the typical Maryland family, this tax will cost us about $1K-3K per year. Possibly less if you're at the poverty line, but then it hits you harder because you don't have the opportunity to avoid things like sales tax.
And then increased spending at the same time they just raised taxes by a record amount. They get my vote as the most out-of-touch legislators I've ever been "served" by.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
You'll have to excuse my ignorance here, but in NZ we have GST (like many other countries) at 12.5% on all goods and services (with only a couple of exceptions), but naturally those who supply goods and services effectively do not pay the GST on the goods and services they procure during the course of the business activity as GST is a tax on the end-of-the-chain (the GST they paid to thier suppliers is deducted from the GST they recieved from thier customers before they remit it to the inland revenue).
I would have assumed that the various "Sales Taxes" in the states worked in a similar way, that being a tax for the consumer, not the supplier.
In that case, as "custom programming" is really not something your average consumer needs, but more often something your average business (supplier) needs, isn't it mostly a moot point, as the supplier wouldn't effectively be paying that tax anyway? Or is "Sales Tax" levied to all, and not reclaimable by registered suppliers, that would seem to be pretty crazy as it would be being levied at each level of the supply chain!
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Michigan recently passed a law that, among a great many other things, also adds sales/service tax to any kind of out sourced IT work. The law is being reconsidered after the massive outcry from various other industries that also got hit by this nonsense. Michigan is by far the worst state in the union in terms of jobs and economics, and our idiot governor decides to pass legislation that makes businesses even less likely to grow and flourish in Michigan. I mean, who's going to contract to someone who has to add a 6% tax to everything he does? I can't just "eat" the cost, since in the global IT market I'm already working for dirt fucking cheap, so there's no way I can match the rates other contractors offer _and_ pay the 6% tax. Thankfully this will soon (hopefully) be shot down in Michigan again, and hopefully people in Maryland manage to fight the stupidity there, too.
If you freelance in maryland, do you now have to apply for a business license? I assume you have to collect the 6% tax yourself and pay it to the state quarterly, like you would do for sales tax as any other business... thing is you need a federal employee ID number to do that...
What a giant pain in the ass...
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
Here in TN, we tax custom software. To the law, there's no difference between something I write, and going to the store and buying something off the shelf. Most of my clients are out of state, so it hardly matters, but it's a pain to deal with it every quarter. I had a friend who doesn't charge tax, the state went after him, and he got a judgement against the state (they had to pay him), so the laws aren't 100%.
Do you have ESP?
Except that you're comparing apples with oranges. Way to go, troll. The programmers still have to pay sales tax, just like everyone else. The issue is that they're now taxing their services, which will basically start limiting the availability of those services and eliminate their associated jobs in-state since companies will now either farm out the work, bring it in-house, or just not do it.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Something suspicuous is going on if government wants to tax custom computer programming. Pehaps they don't want us to find out what else is on that pork bill. A new yacht for some shady senator. A government kick back for some big software company. A cover-your-ass move by some cowardly lawmaker who thinks that a tax will stop computer programmers from finding out why they are getting hit with a 6% tax for the job that they do.
In the near future, expect an investigation as to why the government thinks they can slow down an industry by passing a bill. In the near future, expect no mercy from the men and women who work behind the keyboard.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
And it's not like state or local governments operate with any sense of fairness when it comes to taxes. Often people building an industrial plant will shop around to find the state or locale that gives them the largest tax breaks--there's no way that can be fair to the smaller businesses that don't have that kind of clout. And while you're all at it, better get used to it. There's trillions of dollars in debt that has to be paid back, with interest. Taxes have only one way to go - up! The federal government is trillions of dollars in debt. State taxes, which this article is about, make no difference to the national deficit.
wow, nice work Maryland
Custom programming is one thing and that kind of a move would certainly make me leave the state. Computer Support Services, Data Center Support, and Disaster Recovery Services however are the big ones IMO. It looks like Best Buy is going to have to pay sales tax for the Geek Squad - which they probably were charging anyways. But what about call centers and data center services? Those companies compete nationally or at the very least with like businesses in surrounding states. Certainly, no new call centers will pop up in the state, and a new data center provider would have to think long and hard about starting up in a nearby state instead.
Use tax aside, businesses also have to worry about costs to out-of-state customers. The use tax makes it more difficult for in-state businesses to avoid the tax, but the tax itself puts in-state companies at a disadvantage when competing for customers that don't have a presence within Maryland.
Further, for businesses that utilize IT services a great deal, the tax provides incentive to leave the state. 6% on custom programming? That could increase costs for medium businesses by more than $100K
No, that's not what will happen. Let's use some hypothetical figures:
Company A writes software and troubleshoots computers, Company B mows lawns.
Let's say in Maryland sales tax is 6% and corporate income tax is 25%.
If Company A does $100,000 worth of business, they will now need to pay 25% income tax and 6% sales tax.
If Company B does $100,000 worth of business, they will only pay the 25% income tax.
At the end of the year Company A pays out $31,000 in taxes, while Company B pays out $25,000.
You may say this is fair since Company A could be considered to be selling a product. If Company A ONLY does troubleshooting, they will still pay $31,000. Does this seem fair to you?
Perhaps the poster didn't express it properly, but part of the "social contract" that your tax-free programmer benefits from is:
Or we could have everyone do what you advocate, and stop paying taxes. Schools would close. Houses would be allowed to burn to the ground, whoever had the biggest gang would p0wn your shit, and could butt-rape your 5-year-old son (and you) without fear of any jail time, but that would be okay, because you'd be "stickin' it to da man!"
Sales taxes are a relatively fair consumption tax, because past a certain point, you don't have to buy stuff. Someone who buys a $6,000 Rolex will pay more sales tax than someone who buys a $9.99 WalMart WallyWatch. It also encourages saving, which, considering the negative saving rate over the last decade, is something that is needed.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Repeat after me:
There is no such thing as a permanent job.
Remove that phrase from your lexicon.
Employment is at-will. Anyway, businesses come and go.
Contracting is the way this industry is going and I think that is a good thing. Billing by the hour engenders more professionalism on both sides of the equation. Normally employers look at young engineers as a safety valve for inability to plan the project. They have no life, so we can wink/nudge them into working way past 40 hours. Billing by the hour, contractors know that they have to produce in the alloted time.
So I wouldn't look at anything that pushes us away from healthy use of contractors as being "a good thing."
Of course, I'm a contractor...
-- John.
Simplying the tax code is actually not so easy. Base it on income? Then those of us who don't earn wages (cashing-out of stocks isn't a wage) avoid this tax. Flat tax? Punishes the poor. Opening exemptions for the poor? Also opens loopholes. Use an AMT-type of tax? If not done properly (index to inflation), then more of us gets hit by it each year. As you plug more and more loopholes and correct any inequities (someone gets taxed too much, be they the poor, some industry unfairly punished, some lobbyist throws extra money around to entice favorable taxes for their clients), your tax code gets more and more complex.
I would hazard that the majority of IT related services in MD are subcontracted to some branch of the federal government. They are by far the biggest employer around these parts. Unless I'm mistaken, this is not going to have a great impact on government contractors. So it seems like it's really targeted to hurt smaller development/support shops. The entire tax hike has been geared towards smaller organizations and individuals - all the provisions for higher taxes on wealthier individuals were removed prior to the bill passing, as well. Thanks, O'Malley.
Maryland is simply double dipping.
Lets hope it doesn't become an accepted idea.
But given the country's governments love to spend and are in hock up to their ears we really should expect more taxes to pop out of the woodwork.
I understand the rationale behind this - you have to pay tax on shrink-wrapped software, so why not custom software? Well, because custom software is a service is fundamentally a service, not a product. Yes, you can buy shrink-wrapped boiler plate legal documents, for which you are required to pay sales tax - does this mean we should pay a sales tax for legal services?
My clients purchase my time as a service. As a side effect I may or may not create custom code for them, or improve their existing code base. I might go weeks without writing a line of code, or I might spend a feverish week cranking out a ton of very worthwhile code. Are the two types of activities similarly taxable? What if I am just working on documentation? What if I am troubleshoot and tracking down/reproducing bugs? Do you have to break out your activities by taxable/non-taxable? Or is my labor merely taxable because I am labeled a "programmer"?
Because its just the tip of the iceberg. Small companies cannot afford in house staffs. As such they rely on others. This means that that whatever product they create, whatever service they provide, is now going to cost the citizens of MD more. The problem is that politicians have figured it out, people are too stupid to realize that no corporation pays taxes, they merely collect them for the government. Its called "embedded costs".
So, when the politicians get the public fired up about companies making too much money the people go blissfully along, buying into this idea that the money corporations pay in taxes is magically not going to come out of their hide in the form of higher prices.
This hurts IT because it stagnates development. Now companies specializing in such services have seen their costs increase. If they don't pass it along it means less money, less new stuff, less employees, less benefits, whatever. For the small company it means getting buy with software which doesn't exactly fit. For big companies, well most probably won't be based there so its not going to bite them directly. However indirectly if they use companies paying this tax in state those costs will be embedded and passed along.... to the consumer somewhere down the line.
Class warfare only gets you so far, warfare on corporations seems to have no bounds. Just like how the stupidity of the average voter has no bounds. They think they can keep voting themselves other people's money without end...
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Yep, exactly my point: you don't want the tax code to be simplified because then you couldn't punish the rich as easily. And next you're going to complain about how much tax accountants and tax attorneys make, and how programmers are teh oppressed! Go fig. Just, go fig.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
There's no sales tax.
-ever-.
This is my sig.
Try THAT when creating an invoice with your average software!
Oh... And while speaking to a CT Dept of Revenue "Services" rep, I was told that I could charge 6% for everything.
Oh great. So, for my convenience, I can just overcharge my clients and give the extra cash to the state. Ridiculous!!
-- Bill
Windows is not the answer.
Windows is the question.
The answer is "NO."
I'm afraid you're the one who has it backwards.
It's not going to hit the development companies in Maryland so much as the customers for such services in that state. As part of a project I'm currently involved in, I have to monitor our application vendor's invoices to ensure that we're getting charged sales tax on custom development, no matter where it takes place, since we're the customer and our local tax rules apply (just as if you order something from another state, you're supposed to pay use tax if sales tax isn't charged). Thus if a company in Baltimore asks a company in California to do some custom work for them, then under this new ruling sales tax would be applied. If the customer was in California and the development company was in Maryland, California's sales tax rules would govern (and I have no idea what those are).
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
You mean like George Bush cutting taxes and the tax revenues going up? Can't blame tax cuts for the deficits, its the spending that is the problem. Seems like the problem is not conservative theories trumpeted into facts, but the facts are getting in the way of what ever beliefs you have.
BTW what the hell are conservative and liberal theories anyways? The only theories I see around Washington is the theory that they can take our money and freedom.
Money == Power == Freedom in this country. Any new taxes are taking away our freedom and not helping the poor, the unhealthy, scientific research, or the children. We have more than enough tax money to cover that.
Spelling and grammar mistakes specifically left in to give the grammar and spelling nazis a meaning to their life.
As a 43 year lifetime resident of Maryland, I've had it. I've loved living here and am damn proud to be a Marylander, but this is bullsquat. I had been thinking of moving and this seals it for me, I'm outta here as soon as I can.
We're also getting screwed with one-armed bandits too.
http://www.stupidprize.com/?name=Maryland
Does this new tax apply to clients outside of Maryland with custom work being done by a Maryland based business? This would kill business for a vendor I deal with on a (nearly) daily basis.
Just curious.
They simply can't say no to a tax.
In other words, It will now have to pay its fair share of taxes, same as other businesses.
Except other labor-only services pay no such tax. Specifically, any maintenence services (as opposed to fabrication of new items) are not taxed. From the Maryland tax code web page:
On the other hand, charges for repairing or restoring an existing item of tangible personal property to its original condition are not subject to tax. A charge for reconfiguring or enhancing existing tangible personal property, unless it results in the creation of a new and different item of tangible personal property, is also not taxable.
Essentially, IT is being singled out for paying taxes whereas other labor types do not. There is no tax on having your accounting done, but now there is a tax on having your accounting software debugged. There isn't a tax on having your car fixed, but there is a tax on having your servers fixed. There is no tax on having your nails done, or having your lawn mowed, or having your house painted. Why are technology services being singled out in this respect?
The ______ Agenda
Maryland already taxes security Guard Services, dry cleaners, maybe more: http://business.marylandtaxes.com/taxinfo/comar/sub6.asp
Well, supposedly the government is supposed to already be us. That's according to the Constitution and some other apparently outdated documents. I guess that there's been a certain disconnect that occurred somewhere along the way.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Don't pay your taxes to starve the system?
They are already borrowing trillions of dollars they can't readily tax out of us now!
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
1. meat and other food inspections;
2. a system of laws and courts;
3. police and fire protection, disaster relief;
4. roads, water and other infrastructure;
5. basic education;
-----
1) Haven't been paying attention to the news with all the food poisoning, out-of-country dangerous foods, and recalls eh?
2) Two letters: O J
3) The fat cats always threaten the population with basics being effected. Meanwhile, the portion of the budget we don't see grows with the size of their offices and staffs. I have yet to see a city manager take a salary cap or reduction.
4) Tell that to Minnesota. Careful on the bridges.
5) Right now instead of using taxes, they are using private loans to pay those rising tuition rates.
We all rent from the government anyway. Try not paying your property taxes - you will find out who the landlord is real fast. Heck, they even tax the toilet paper you wipe your butt with around here.
But, we won't do anything until it finally all falls apart.
Good for you, but you have an income tax, don't you? Not all states do.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
like wars without end http://www.nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=107/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Military Bases : Andrews AFB, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Ft. Meade (also NSA), Naval Support Facility, Pax River
... but it's a good thing that the feds are in DC, and won't be affected by this, eh?
... and there's no way in hell I'm relocating to Va -- the commute sucks, and I have no plans on moving.
Military Hospitals : Walter Reed, Navy Medical Center (also NIH)
NGA (formerly NIMA) (Bethesda, MD)
NASA : Goddard Space Flight Center (Greenbelt, MD)
Census Bureau (Suitland, MD)
NOAA (Suitland, MD)
US Marshall Service (Baltimore, MD)
I'm sure I'm missing a few
* Disclaimer : I'm a contractor at one of the above mentioned facilities, in a role that would be taxed under the new laws
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Yeah that complicated tax code is why Warren Buffett pays 17% while his secretary pays 30%. Even HE doesn't agree with it.
And you mentioned attorneys, go figure legal services STILL aren't subject to this expanded sales tax, while my clicking buttons on a virus scanner or install wizard somehow is.
The only thing that surprises me is that it isn't being done elsewhere. That it isn't being done everywhere. There are damn few things in this state that are exempt from the sales tax and you can't plausibly call this particular tax regressive.
Yes, hope that sends more revenue to my state or gets people in Maryland to look at higher out of state service companies, in today's world I setup servers I can remotely boot and configure BIOS on. I work with ISPs to build firewalls and routers and ship them to clients all the time, this allow me to VPN into their network and then I am good to go. I have everything in VMware (so the internal network is largely virtual) and all I need is the receptionist onsite to make sure there is power, I get e-mails for hardware failure and have full support warranties. Life is good, well unless you are a service provider in Maryland.
Respect the Constitution
I have some understanding of the USA taxation, but this only confirm that it's a total mess. I've seen things like that you have to pay sales taxes on stuff you buy on the Internet if you're not located in the state it's sold in. This seems like a strange thing like that and makes no sense to me.
In the EU it's quite simple: If you are a person who buy a service (any service), you pay the sales-tax in the country where you buy it. If you're a company you don't pay the tax if it's from another country and you get the money back if it's in your own country. The same goes for companies who buy goods. If you buy goods and are a person, you either pay the tax of your own country (if the company is selling enough there) or the tax of the selling country.
The sales-tax is 18-25% for both goods and services, but with a few perverted exceptions (like food or books). It's quite high for Americans, but of course this means that our other taxes are lower (well, unless you live in Sweden or Denmark or something like that...).
Where did I say "federal"?
State and local governments are also in hock past their eyeballs, for trillions as well. Even back in 2002 state and local government debt was 1.5 trillion dollars. Do you really think its gone down in the last 5 years? Speaking of total federal debt, if you used GAAP, the federal debt is really 59 trillion dollars.
That money has to be made somewhere. Taxes.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Company A isn't paying $6,000 in sales tax - their clients are. Company A is only the collection agent. Both companies are paying the same tax - $25,000.00
Additionally, since the sales tax is part of the cost of doing busines, the customers of Company A get to deduct it from gross income.
Kevin Smith on Prince
I support taxing software development 100%. As long as legal services, medical services, tax preparation services, hair cutting and car repair are included, too.
I will create a sig when innovation restarts in the U.S.
Go take a class in basic microeconomics. When taxes are increased, suppliers always bear at least some of the extra tax burden, and sometimes all of it. This comes from a straightforward application of the laws of supply and demand.
I say we all dress up like politicians and dump the software in Baltimore harbor...
It worked in Boston once.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
thank you sauge, I feel the same way
Other people living on soil claimed by the American Mafia
We are being scammed.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
And while you're all at it, better get used to it. There's trillions of dollars in debt that has to be paid back, with interest. Taxes have only one way to go - up! And everyone has to contribute.
Eat me. let the people who voted for president fucktard Jr and his nutty little war pay the huge debt. Last time I checked, Clinton had things managed quite nicely when he left office...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I wonder if this applies if you're selling services in Fort Meade?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Maryland aggressively competes with Virginia for IT companies and IT jobs. Most of the good work is already in Virginia and this is just going to make it more so. It will pretty easy for the few decent (large) MD in-house and custom IT shops to move across the river. Its not like they have factories to move.
When people write softwae, they ARE creating a product.
Similarly, when people put together a server, they ARE creating a product.
The proper question is, why should the mechanic and the lawn and nail people (or rather, the people who consume their services) get away with not paying their fair share?
Kevin Smith on Prince
And you think it would be better if there were no oversight? No CDC? No accountability? No accreditation of engineers? No standards for materials?
Instead of complaining about city managers' salaries, do something - run for office. Its not that hard or that expensive. I've done it 3 times - so far I'm 0 for 3, but it was still a worthwhile experience, and it made a small difference.
BTW - basic education is still supported by taxes last I looked. If you want to go private, you're free to do so and pay extra, but that's your decision.
Kevin Smith on Prince
So either run for office yourself, or support a candidate who has the same agenda as you wrt allocation of tax dollars, or beef loud and long to your reps.
Complaining on slashdot won't change it - buttonholing your rep and giving him or her an earful, accompanied by other like-minded concerned citizens, might.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Unfortunately your post is less than "insightful" if not wrong. Your statement "tax-free programmer" is hardly tax free. He's not benefiting from the service not being taxed, it is the consumer that is benefiting. The tax law just means that the programmer will have to add on tax to the total bill. With all of the ways that money is taxed there's no need for more taxes, just better management. When they buy pencils for $4.00/each that is an absurd waste of money. If anything else we need more responsibility in government rather than more taxes. Re: your point about saving? How? Are you referring to an income tax rebate that people get at the end of the year? That doesn't have to do with sales tax. You never get sales tax back.
The "unaccounted debt" totals 50 trillion dollars, mostly to social security, medicaid, etc. You going to take away old people's pensions? What are they going to eat - cat food? Nope, too expensive when you've got no money. But that's okay = once they starve to death, they're no longer a burden to the system. And if you get really lucky, all the poor people who get sick will "do the right thing" and die quietly.
Yes, stop spending on stupidity like adventures in Iraq, but that won't make the debt go away - only taxes or default will do that. And you don't want to default. The consequences would make the depression look like a picnic.
Kevin Smith on Prince
How far do you think a proposal to tax the services provided by lawyers would go?
Source
As a service purchaser, this means that I will purchase less. The way I read it is that a $750,000 project gets $45,000 in sales taxes added on. That is $45,000 less in the budget. It may simply mean doing more in house. We will see.
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
Remind me again why we seceded from England? Oh yes, that's right, I remember now.
These people would atax AIR if they could find a way to meter it.
I'm willing to bet that when everything is outsourced out of the state, jobs, computer repair shops shut down (and stop paying their property and business taxes, FAR higher revenue streams than taxing the programming/support services they provide), these states might rethink their choices.
Or maybe not. We already know this country is on a slippery slope downward, why not grease the rails and speed it up.
Wow. Of everything that's been happening in this state, this is the thing that "seals the deal"? I've been a Marylander all my life as well, and, while I've been here less time than you, I am a professional software engineer. It sucks, yes, but this is your reason?
How about the sales tax increase? The ever-increasing income and property taxes? The fact that Annapolis is more concerned with playing party politics than passing through the slots bill that will actually help alleviate the new tax burdens while keeping money within the state?
Have you driven the state stretch of 95 recently? What's the tolls now, $10 each way? For what? Have you driven the streets of Baltimore? You could park an 18-wheeler in some of the potholes. Hell, I live in Montgomery County now, and some of the roads are almost as bad here!
The state and local governments here have problems, particularly with taxation. Whenever there's a tax increase, I usually don't see anything come of it. But what can we expect when we vote in as governor a mayor who did nothing but make empty promises for an ailing city?
I love this state, if for no other reason than it is my home. And I've come to realize that I'd better be prepared for the stupidest excuses for tax hikes if I do decide to stay. Yeah, I'm mad too, and yeah, this is going to be a punch in the wallet both for me and the company for which I work, but I'll live. And start making big purchases in VA and PA.
More bullets fast I still see one of them there suckers a wigglin!
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
Book seller's pay sales tax. The equivalent is a software sales corporation or typical store with a store front (Circuit City, CompUSA, etc).
Camping on quad since 1996.
In the same tone, go take a class in politics. When one jurisdiction makes a tax grab, others follow suit, so eventually it ends up being mostly a wash, except that now its a bit more possible to actually start chipping away at the massive debt hangover. Its the same as the "race to the bottom" that we saw in the '80s, but now in reverse, and history will do what history always does - repeat itself, and make fools out of those who either don't know their history, or plumb forgot. Same as the current housing bubble/bust is just a repeat, though greatly exaggerated, of the earlier one in the early '80s, or the one in Japan in the '90s.
Keep in mind that ultimately, suppliers NEVER bear the burden of sales taxes, or any cost, for that matter - all costs are paid, one way or another, by the consumer. If they weren't the company would be out of business once the initial capital and all loan facilities were exhausted. You think that Company XYZ "bears the burden"? Get real. Company XYZ pays taxes based on sales. Ultimately, someone, somewhere, buys, and THEY provide the $$$ that pays the taxes. And the ultimate payor, the one who enables all this, is you, the consumer, either directly, or indirectly through government purchases or purchasing from a business that bought from a company that bought from another that ...
If a company "absorbs" the tax, its only because they have enough margin to do so. Otherwise, they would either increase the price or go out of business. A lot of services aren't "portable". You can't outsource your pool care or lawn mowing or car repairs to India, so taxing them won't cause them to offshore. What it will do is spread the tax base more equitably. Why should only manufacturers and some service businesses have to pay a "manufacturing tax", making them uncompetitive investments compared to other businesses? Let everyone in the food chain pay their fair share.
Or is being "fair" the new "evil"?
Kevin Smith on Prince
When there is only one party, it quickly ceases to matter which it is.
If you want to see how they voted to remove the language from the bill, go here: http://www.mdchamber.com/blog/2007/11/how_they_voted_sales_tax_expan.php
I wonder if this applies if you're selling services in Fort Meade?
Government agencies are tax exempt in most (nearly all) circumstances. So if you're in the public sector and selling mostly to the Federal government, this probably has minimal effect.
This looks like one of those dumb pandering moves that politicians make a big show of, saying they're going after "big companies" without really understanding the things they're tinkering with.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
For further examples of when the 'a superpower collapses under it's own grotesque weight', please review the fall of the Soviet Union. I'm not convinced you really want that at a local level.
Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
And when Virginia makes the same tax grab? Its not like anyone to want to leave money on the table - not with deficits climbing.
Kevin Smith on Prince
"Oh I don't Know About all that.... I think my second amendment rights would have something to say about it. I already live in the most dangerous city in America."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/washington/20cnd-scotus.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Kevin Smith on Prince
That's not really the point; the problem here is that Maryland has decided to single out software development for taxation, separate from virtually all other services. Why, exactly, should software development be taxed, when house painting or hair cutting isn't?
All they're doing is making IT services more expensive and consequently less available to businesses in Maryland. That, in the long run, just makes them less competitive.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
The Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR), "Part 29.302 -- Application of State and Local Taxes to the Government" covers this:
29.302 (a) Generally, purchases and leases made by the Federal Government are immune from State and local taxation. Whether any specific purchase or lease is immune, however, is a legal question requiring advice and assistance of the agency-designated counsel. (b) When it is economically feasible to do so, executive agencies shall take maximum advantage of all exemptions from State and local taxation that may be available. If appropriate, the contracting officer shall provide a Standard Form 1094, U.S. Tax Exemption Form (see Part 53), or other evidence listed in 29.305(a) to establish that the purchase is being made by the Government.
So, this new Maryland Sales Tax is unlikely to generate revenue on the back of the Federal Government.
Instead, considering that ANY SPOT in Maryland is at most 40 miles from another state, and considering that Pennsylvania already has a huge commuter workforce into Maryland, the trend of out-of-state commuters will accelerate. Companies and employees move out of state, then Maryland gets 6% of NOTHING.
This bright idea was brought to you by the same governor who sends his two high-school daughters to an elite private girls' school... because the public schools which are good enough for the rest of the state aren't good enough for him and his spawn.
And when Virginia makes the same tax grab? Its not like anyone to want to leave money on the table - not with deficits climbing.
Not going to happen in VA. The state is a lot more conservative and anti-tax than VA, and many more big software companies have big presences there, particularly in northern VA. (Although most of the development business is all public-sector stuff, where the client is the Federal government and would be exempt anyway.)I would expect to see much higher real- and personal-property taxes, and maybe personal and corporate income taxes, before you see a tax on services in VA. The politicians are stupid, but they generally know not to shit where they eat, and messing with the consulting or software industries would definitely qualify as taking a dump in the trough.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
If I were in the computer business in the Maryland side of the DC area, I'd make sure to move my office down the Beltway to Virginia
Absolutely.
The start-up I'm working on now needs a DC area office for federal government customers, and the chances of that office being located in MD is now nil.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The state is a lot more conservative and anti-tax than VA,
...
The state is a lot more conservative and anti-tax than MD,
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
the soviet union was set up quite differently (albeit with about the same level of concern for the average person), so I don't think it would exactly happen the same way. Also I don't see it ending any other way to be honest. What do you expect; the US government to suddenly become uncorrupt and practice wise spending/fiscal policy? I sure don't. The people in power are going to run the country into the ground; so why lie to myself that it's not going to end that way? It's not if I want it to happen its that its going to and Id rather it just happen and be done with.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
You need more taxes, not less. The states and local governments are in the hole for trillions, the feds for 9 trillion plus another 50 trillion for future social security and medicare/medicaid.
Artificially lowering taxes increases spending and decreases savings, as people take advantage of the lower taxes to buy - same as artificially low interest rates caused the housing bubble.
Like anything else, a too-low rate now, in relation to obligations, means more pain further down the road.
Paying back all this mess would require each family to pay $31,000 per year, for the next 75 years. Your grandchildren are going to have to pay for your "largesse" - self-indulgence - in not setting tax rates that would put the system on a viable fiscal footing.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Your post misses one point. Nobody pays taxes on something they don't sell. You can write all you want, and never have to charge sales tax if you hve no sales.
Services should be taxed at the same rate as hard goods. This is a first step for that state, but its really quite common elsewhere in the world, and known by other names - VAT (Value Added Tax), GST (Goods and Services Tax), etc.
This would at least allow the US to get some semblance of order into its' finances. Taxes lower consumption, and with the average US consumer spending 103% of their income every year for the last decade, something has to give. The housing bubble crash is only the beginning.
Kevin Smith on Prince
So what happens when the feds have to ram through a VAT (Value-Added Tax) in 2010 because of the deepening financial crisis?
If you think what the US is in is a financial crisis now, you haven't seen anything yet ... analysts are divided between this being the second or 3rd inning, but they all agree its only be beginning, and are now making direct comparisons with the Great Depresseion, in terms of the long-term impact of the housing bubble collapse on the US.
They won't have a choice. Even if they decide to default on the debt (which isn't really an option anyway), they'd still need to go to a VAT on all goods and services, as anything else will just result in more lobbying by each side who doesn't want their particular ox gored.
Besides, as you indirectly point out, if they don't squeeze it out one way, they'll squeeze it out another. When push comes to shove, and the bills have to be paid, and there's no more credit available, they'll tax anything they can, voters be damned.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Authors do sell their books (ahem, documents), but they sell them to book publishers, and not to end users. Fine artists also create a product and sell directly to end users and I don't think they pay taxes, but that may be due to transactions being off the books. It's still not fair if they can get away with it while others can't. They only reason they can is that they're a small group not worth the government's time to bother with. I don't think there's a right or wrong with taxation, only fair or unfair, consistent or inconsistent. If IT professionals and companies should be taxed for services, the all services should be taxed. However, I'd prefer all services to be untaxed and leave sales tax for goods consumable by end users; autos, electronics, music, shrink wrapped software, etc.
Even though I don't like sales tax, the only reason I'd ever support them is to capture income from illegal residents and tourists.
Camping on quad since 1996.
The programmer working as an employee isn't being asked to start charging sales tax.
The programmer working as a contract is - and as such, he's selling his code, which IS a product.
Now, in all fairness, everyone else involved in the sale of services, such as car repairs, lawn mowing, etc., should also be similarly required to do the same. This would probably have the side effect of allowing the tax to be set at a lower level overall, resulting in fewer cries of "the jobs will leave".
Kevin Smith on Prince
Camping on quad since 1996.
Keep in mind that ultimately, suppliers NEVER bear the burden of sales taxes, or any cost, for that matter - all costs are paid, one way or another, by the consumer.
This is true in the general case, where a sale is actually made. However, where the demand curve is shifted through the price change caused by additional tax burden, sales are lost. Thus, while a consumer bears the cost of taxes in an actual sale, a business bears a cost in lost sales. Simple economics.In the Netherlands you have to pay 19% tax over all services and goods.
So I find it suprising there was no tax at all over services in the USA.
My clients pay 8.25 % ! No joke.
It might - at first glance - seem from this and this that out of state programmers wouldn't be considered goods. But of course they didn't make it that easy for out of state programmers.
While it's true that Use Tax only applies to goods sold out of state, if a service is performed out of state, then in order for its effect to make it into the state it must produce a good that is transported across state lines - making it a target of the Use Tax.
And if the service is performed inside the state, then it already is taxable.
I live in MD, and work near DC - but still in MD - contracting to the Federal Government. This means it'll be harder to find a private sector job which doesn't lead back to government contracting. Blech.
Then again, if I were only going to be a Federal Contractor, then I wouldn't care - the government (Feds and State) is immune to sales/use tax for contracted services.
So, how does it work if you live/work in MD but do the work for clients in CA?
Anyone have a link to the law?
I live in Maryland, I'm going to be the recipient of all the "NEW" taxes they have decided we should pay. I keep seeing words like "Fair Share", so just what is my fair share? How many times should I pay taxes on the dollar I earn so the state of maryland can waste it as well? I think those who feel income redistribution and fair share should move to places like Cuba or China, even North Korea...those people have been paying their Fair Share for their whole lives.
Let me point out a few facts. This tax increase (which no one yet seems to have figured out what all the new taxes are yet since they did it at 2:30 in the morning) is to help cover the extra 1 billion in new spending they have come up with, and an 18% increase to the failing school system. All this money which I and other Marylander's earn will be thrown into the states accounts who will missmanage and put in the demand for the people working to pay more of the un"Fair Share".
How many of the people here have ever worked on a Government contract? How many of those contracts went over budget, failed to meet the deadline, or both? What happened? Did you get sued? I doubt it. Did the Govt give you more money? Most likely. The normal sop of government is when something fails...throw more money at it, and what happens then? Well, if failing the first time gets you a bonus, why not try it again? Too often that works over and over again. How long can you keep tossing money at a failure before it is enough?
I am of the opinion that I can do a better job with my money than the state can. I pay government enforced charities, also known as social programs. I get to help fund all the poor children out there that aren't mine, I didn't ask people to have, but now for some reason it is my responsibility to pay for their health care, food, and housing. If I don't jump for joy at being forced to pay for all these social programs I'm just mean...or other nasty thought get thrown my way. I no longer care. The largest tax increase in the history of the state was passed in the middle of the night with closed door negotiations and a flat refusal to listen to the people of Maryland. Representatives email servers suddenly started to reject all mail, phones remained busy for days..this is crooked government racking businesses and the working people so some politician can feel they are "helping the needy" with my money.
It's a shame I can't tell the state I'm going to have a structural deficit next year....so I don't have to pay you any taxes. I need a big screen tv and a new home theater system and if I pay you then I can't afford it. It's what they are doing to all the people of Maryland...the tax on services is only one of a very large set of taxes they are bending us over with. Scream "Fair Share" all you want, but until you are volunteering 50% of your income to assist all the people who are irresponsible or just lazy...don't tell me they are my responsibility.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
Here in Tennessee they had some revenue short falls. The tax division was pressured to get creative. They decided to reinterpret an old law so they could tax computer consultants which had never been done. That wasn't so bad, it's just that they decided to do it retroactively and go after all the consultants for back taxes. A friend of mine got caught in the net, he had registered his business in Tennessee and followed all the local laws. Consultants who hadn't got missed in the sweep.
He went back and read the law carefully. It had a clause something to the effect of "configuration of existing software and hardware is excluded" and had more language implying that consulting was taxable only if it developed the entire system. He made an argument that writing in scripts (PHP, Ruby) was all configuration of an existing system. In fact, by extension all coding was just configuration since he didn't write the OS to begin with. He hired a lawyer and dared them to sue him in court. They backed away quietly, afraid of the challenge.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
Here's a good example. Along the Baltimore-Washington Parkway you have BWI airport, Goddard Space Flight Center, and then downtown, Andrews Airforce Base. Now you could have this be a wonderful haven for aerospace and defense contracting, but instead, most of the contractors here have field offices over in Tyson's Corner, Reston or even Dulles (all very much in VA). To add insult to injury: GSFC itself was built 50 years ago.
So, MD has a huge budget deficit and what do they do? Encourage the growth of business, so they can gather more taxes next year? Of course not, they raise taxes on everyone who's already here, and encourage them to move money across the river. Nice. How about taxing people who are exporting business instead?
For anyone not familiar with the geography of the DC-metro area, "outsourcing" from any of the commercialized areas around the MD side of the beltway means a 25-45 minute drive over to Tysons (non-rush-hour of course). It's that close and that convenient. Even from Baltimore, it's not that bad of a haul.
And as a bonus, it's not like you're traveling to some nameless sea of office-parks: the dining is pretty damn good over there. So you send a broker to make a day of it, get some precious face-time with a few e-businesses, laugh it up at Morton's, and save a buttload on your next website, data bunker, co-lo, or what-have-you.
Someone commented on TFA about incorporating in Delaware. That's certainly an option, although the bay bridge is quite an impediment to face-time. However, I can easily see stuff going to PA or even WV if you're north or west of Baltimore (respectively).
This should either be modded up and the parent should be modded down.
Are lawyers services taxed in Maryland?
Many politicians are also lawyers or have friends who are lawyers. I bet they wouldn't want their services taxed.
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
I believe the reason there is a deficit this year and not a deficit last year is that the ruling party has decided to fund two major programs, one new one (Health Care for the masses) and one old but previously unfunded or reduced funded one (Thornton). This is what I gather, but don't take it as the gospel (for lack of a better saying). The ruling party would like to turn Maryland into a socialist state it seems and they are off and running after the green light they got from the last election returning absolute power to the Democrats.
They don't need high taxes to drive out businesses. The housing prices are doing a fine job of it.
Best Slashdot Co
Maybe it's just a cunning ploy by state of Maryland to foster the growth of house painters and hair stylists by preserving a tax-free business environment for them...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Of course you'll have to do without well maintained roads, and other government services, but at least your taxes will be lower.
Best Slashdot Co
There goes the side jobs. I mean there's always under-the-table work, but now I need a Tax Id just to remove spyware.
Yay Maryland!
At least I can vote to remove these losers.
Then what does the first-year economics text reveal is the reason that people would hire an expensive Maryland programmer, rather than a cheap Indian one?
Aside from President George W. Bush, who are you quoting when you say that he "cut taxes and the tax revenues went up"? Again that's a statement that's been said so much that people believe it's true. George W. Bush came to power at the nadir of a business cycle. Tax revenues almost always go up. Our economy's been expanding for quite a while now. The question is have tax revenues increased more than they would have without the tax cuts. Looking at previous presidents, federal revenues increased more under Clinton then they did under Bush or Reagan.
Since then we've had cheap money from the Fed that has fueled a real estate boom as well as a boom for conventional businesses able to expand with the low rates. Of course that would raise revenues somewhat. The problem is that revenues haven't come up even remotely enough to pay for the tax cuts in the first place, so exactly what have we gained? Of course lowering taxes stimulates the economy a little bit in the short run, but in the long run it's not sustainable. It increases our debt load which is leading to a weaker dollar and countries thinking about backing away from our government bonds.
"Can't blame tax cuts for the deficits, its the spending that is the problem."
That's interesting rhetoric, but not strictly true. If you buy a million dollar house and only make 30k a year then your ability to afford your house is not a problem of spending. You never could afford that house in the first place. The federal government is in much the same boat. As just one example, we've spent half a trillion dollars on the war in Iraq. Currently we don't have the income to afford that kind of "house", and the economy is not expanding fast enough to keep pace with our spending. We also have our outstanding social security promises, general debt, etc. We could raise taxes now, and try to get our spending back in control. Or we could test out how much of a drag millions of baby boomers are to the economy when they retire. It's not like they're going to care about income tax rates once they're no longer working, and are the largest voting block in the country...
I agree that if the President puts a check for $300 in the hands of every American there will be a positive effect to the economy. A ridiculously artificial effect, but an effect nonetheless. But how much impact did the president's tax cuts really have on the economy? Are you sure that they didn't just happen to coincide with historically low interest rates that let the economy boom on cheap money? The economy's contracting right now and Bush's tax cuts are still in place.
If cutting taxes really made that big of a difference shouldn't be be living in the same sort of economy that we had under Bill Clinton? After all, taxes were higher then. Things should be even better now, shouldn't they?
Thanks for identifying all the exceptions to the norm. All the other hard working government employees can get back to work now. Your pay is your reward and you will be smitten no matter what you do. Much of these troll mongers should visit a 3'rd world nation to really understand what a functional government means.
People have been paying taxes probably ever since our ancestors abandoned the hunter/gatherer mode of existence. We all hate paying taxes, but they do pay for vital services that you or I individually would not want to pay for. Why should I want to pay for pothole repairs in front of your house? Why should you pay firefighter's salaries in my neighborhood? Taxes pay for our soldiers and equipment, the roads we drive on, the schools that educated us, the infrastructure that businesses use so they can employ us, forests and parks we can enjoy (or exploit), etc. There's always something you or I can't see value in that other's do (sports stadiums, art museums, geological studies, surveying, food inspectors, IRS, etc.), but all play a role.
Don't like certain tax laws? Then complain to your Congressperson. They write the laws that change the equations governing how this person gets taxes vs. that person. Why does Warren Buffett play less tax proportionally than his secretary? Is that right? Just because you are rich, does that also entitle you to play less in taxes than us grunts who keep you rich?
Mind you, I am not arguing that we need to tax the rich until they are poor, that would be stupid and counterproductive, and harmful to America. But somewhere, there should be a balance between the two absurd extremes (rich-taxed-until-poor vs. rich-pay-no-tax-at-all-because-they-are-rich). And that balance will shift around as new ways of making money/avoiding taxes are discovered.
I live in Sweden, and when I read the article I almost laughed. Ha! A puny 6 percent! Come on! In Sweden most people pay 30 % and up, regardless if they provide services or goods. But we have a different system here, of course. Instead of paying for different insurances directly we pay the stuff via taxes. The drawback is of course that this isn't as efficient, the system has leaks and other inefficiencies. And we pay for people that cannot otherwise pay; it's called solidarity and it's not the same as communism... I work as a software engineer (since 11 years back) and earn about 5500 USD per month. After taxes I get around 3300 USD to put in my wallet. That's a lot of tax money but I live *very* well on that money, not worrying much about the taxes that gives the poor people "free" health care and medicines, etc. Again, the system we have here is in a way less efficient but I'd choose it any day over the "colder" (no offense intended) system in countries like the US, where only people with money live well. Call me a commy, if you like...
These types of taxes are stupid for two reasons: 1) They cherry-pick some insdustries while others get off scott free. If they want to tax everything then they should just pass a VAT or GST like Canada. 2) You can actually tax any business. They just act as a "collection agency". They always pass these taxes along to the consumer. If you need additional money (which I doubt), raise everyone's income tax. We already have a everything in place to handle that.
No Supreme Court decision is going to change that fact on the ground.
The fact it is upcoming should encourage slackers to arm themselves right fucking now. I recommend a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense and an M1 rifle to keep the bastards worried. While the M1 is pricey it is not an 'assault weapon' and was good enough to assault the beaches at Normandy. In the right hands it has an effective range of 400 yards or more. Also if you don't already posses the skills learn to make improvised explosives. (Quote my dad when I was 14, Nitrocellulose is much safer then Nitroglycerin, don't be stupid.) Without this you are just a subject, with those you are a citizen.
It's not enough to own it, you need to be reasonably proficient or you are of no more social use then the cop at the donut store or the hippie at Starbucks.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The feds will print money and pay their bills while simultaneously shrinking their debt (via inflation) which is mostly at a fixed rate.
Better to keep you assets in the form of some gold and rural real estate but mostly in steel and copper jacketed led. It is going to be very ugly when the great unwashed realize that their SSI (social security disability is where all the welfare cheats live these days) check won't pay for jack shit anymore.
The fact that Europe has the same unfunded retirement system problem doesn't make the Euro look any better in the long term. There you've got dozens of nations that own printing presses for the same currency.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Feel better?
We do pay income tax. 30% and up (15%+ just to keep our Ponzi scheme SS 'alive and dying').
This is a sales tax on services provided by those that don't own any politicians, which is on top of that.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Not everyone has gone wacko. For example, Canada's retirement fund is on an actuarily sound, fully funded basis for the next 75 years. AND they just reduced the federal GST tax from 7% to 6%, since the overall federal debt has gone down enough (after running more than a decade of surpluses) to "give up" some of the tax.
Kevin Smith on Prince
In addition, he just increased the sales tax by 20 percent, an increase that disproportionately impacts poorer folks,
The IT Tax affects the poor disproportionately too. Because, really, who hires IT service? It's mostly companies - by far the lion's share. And what are these companies going to do, take it on the chin? No, they're going to raise the prices on their products to pay for this tax - it's passed through.
And who gets hit the hardest by a rise in cost of goods? Right, not the wealthy.
What a bunch of idiots you have there running the state! Still, a shining example of why federalism is important. C'mon in, the water's warm (actually it's snowing now...).
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
The MD programmer is better and he's right there. You can yell at him, or just tell him that that's not what you intended. Besides, the ratio in price is about 1.8 now (so says my boss^3).
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"