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Paramount to Drop HD DVD?
zeromemory writes "The Financial Times reports that " Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers' recent backing of Sony's Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end." According to the Times, Warner Brother's recent defection to Blu-Ray allowed Paramount to terminate their exclusive relationship with HD DVD. Universal Studios remains the only major studio to exclusively support the HD DVD format, though rumors have surfaced that their contract may also contain a termination provision similar to that exercised by Paramount."
No, this is not a troll. It's just that with all of the major studios hopping to Blu Ray, well, let's just say that content often drives adoption rates for new formats. Looks like Sony wins this one.
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Since the time this news was in the firehose till now... we are now discussing green-ray vs MegaHD-DVD. The old war is over.
It's not over until Netcraft confirms it!
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Paramount already denied this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aQMGgh2LV_bU&refer=japan
There's only a clausule that it is permitted for Paramount to drop hd-dvd if they think it's needed.
Paramount had denied this allegation. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=178864
Paramount announces that HD-DVD is where it's at. Paramount CEO gives himself a big raise and pat on the back for his intelligence and insight.
Dateline Jan 2008 -
Paramount announces that Blu-Ray is where it's at. Paramount CEO gives himself a big raise and pat on the back for his intelligence and insight.
That's one of the weirdest clauses I've ever heard of... I wonder how truly useful it is, and if Universal really has it as well.
And I'm wondering if they -really- care. Most of their movie sales are going to still be DVD anyhow. And the exclusive contract won't be in effect forever, especially if HD-DVD throws in the towel. I think the most harmful thing would be if they were forced to release all their movies on HD-DVD even knowing they won't sell.
IMHO, the format war is far from over, anyhow. HD DVD players are half the price of the Bluray players, and that means a -lot-, especially while the market is just forming. There are -very- few people buying their second high def player. Almost every player sold is to a new household.
And as far as I can tell, they are getting out of their 'exclusive' contract, but that doesn't mean they'll flop the other way. They might just produce discs for both now.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Warners decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format.
Some big players in the market there.
The Warners move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood's output, although the format's grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard.
The words "grip on film content" makes me feel all cornered.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
I'll believe it when Paramount announces it, not the Financial Times...
If Sony wins a format war, does that mean the end times are near? Should I be stocking up on canned goods and water and working on my underground bunker?
Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
Thank God this war is pretty much over. Now people can stop sitting on the fences and begin actively investing in Blu-ray. Now we don't have to worry so much about "exclusives" anymore.
I sort of feel sorry for HD-DVD supports. If they're looking to blame someone for this though, they should really point fingers at Microsoft. If they had had the foresight (or even just the balls) to put HD-DVD in to the Xbox 360, the article would be the other away around.
And before anyone brings up digital downloads, I do stand by my opinion that we are still a good five or more years away from that. Much of the world is limited to 1MB or 2MB broadband at most; some are still on dial up! And even those with 8MB offerings still have caps in place (British Telecom, I'm looking at you). DDs are not going to happen until we have better bandwidth, lower contention ratios and guaranteed throughput.
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
Well, This was almost clear from the start... as with VHS back in 80s... porn studios go mostly BlueRay then HD-DVD... One example is Vivid Entertainment that decided to publicly back Blu-Ray. :)
Finally!
I always suspected Blu Ray would win (partly because I wanted it to win, partly because of the PS3), but it took far longer than I thought it would. For the most part when corporations compete for the consumers business, the consumers win because they get a better product. In the case of the Next-Gen DVD format, neither the corporations nor the consumers won (or maybe they both won but it was a phyrric (sp?) victory). The products a few years ago are barely any different than what they are now (albeit significantly cheaper), so all that resulted in this conflict was consumer confusion and lost sales from people waiting out on a "winner".
I must say though I'm glad that Blu Ray won given that the only end user noticeable difference is storage and price, and Blu Ray win's on storage space, and will eventually get equal in price.
only hastened its demise. The only company that hollywood fears more than apple is MS who has a LONG path of screwing over all of their partners.
It seems to me that the media made a mountain out of a molehill with this 'war'. I quite frankly couldn't care less, as I don't intend to upgrade to either format for a long time.
ilovegeorgebush
It's not over till the fat lady sings. She has sung yet but I hear her warming up in the wings. I think we can call this one at this point. Sony wins. Sad, because I swore that I would never buy another sony product again.
Oh well I guess I can always get a third party br player. Good thing about this is now we can concentrate on cracking all the br encryption and not be distracted by HD-DVD's. Or is HD-dvd no longer a problem?
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
Supposedly the VHS/Betamax war was decided by the adult video houses rather than the "big" publishers... which way are they going?
This Google Trends is surprisingly indicative of where this is headed...
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
Clearly the end to HD DVD will be the plethora of misleading summaries on Slashdot!
Didn't that drive the adoption of DVD?
I got a Blu-ray player free with my TV at Christmas so I'm glad to hear the format appears to be winning. But it seems to me we should be getting our movies over the internet and distributing these little plastic discs is kind of silly.
BUKAKKE, in 1080p HD including the out-takes.
I hear so many people say they dislike Sony. I love Sony products personally. Whats the reason for all the hate? I feel I'm missing something here.
At least you'll probably be able to buy up existing HDDVD titles cheap pretty soon, and you can rip and transcode them all to mpeg4 or whatever before throwing away your player/putting it in the attic.
I did however buy an XBOX HDDVD player which cost me less than £100. If I'd spend £400+ on a stand alone player I might be a bit more bovvered.
RR
... when I buy a Blu-Ray player. I'm not going to pay 25-30 bucks for a movie so that my player can ask permission from some benevolent authority to play. Perhaps HD-DVD would have won had the discs been unloaded at a similar price point to Blu-ray (which I'm sure was subsidized heavily by Sony). It's hard to say that you have the less expensive format when most of your discs cost MORE than the competition. I have a 2TB disk array and 10Mbit cable at home. I'll pirate before I give Blu-ray any of my money.
It was inevitable that I'd get a PS3, so I'm happy I'll be able to have access to all high-def content from these studios. However, I'll be sad to see the price/promotion war between the two end.
Anyone notice the appropriately placed ad on /. right below the article?
As a consumer who hasn't adopted high definition yet I'm glad someone is winning the race!
I wonder if -- and indeed expect that -- the victory will prove Pyrrhic.
Gates famously said this would be the last format far. I think that it will prove to be the last plus one. Most people are going to be uninterested in buying video in a locked format; unless blu-rays allow you to play your videos on a generic DVD player, rip your video into your computer, play your video on your PSP, iPod, iPhone, or whatever, not enough people will want them to generate economies of scale.
I suspect that 1080 will turn out to be a mere stepping stone to arbitarily large screen resolutions. DVD, VHS, etc. all targeted an otherwise very stable market of equipment: NTSC televisions and stereo (or even mono) audio. The old CE companies have tried to create a new ecology (HD TV + Surround sound) but the real ecology is much more complex and diverse (PCs, laptops, cellphones, iPods, and stuff we haven't even dreamed of yet) and it's not going to stay even vaguely stable for long enough for a deeply flawed and mistargeted technology to gain traction.
Why do people keep saying Blu-Ray is "superior"? Bigger capacity - yes, but in most other ways the format offers no technical advantages. In fact I would have thought most slashdot readers would prefer HD-DVD due to the lack of region-coding and non-compulsory DRM (unlike Blu-Ray).
Hmm, well during Xmas I was really leaning forward getting some kind ofhigh def format player, and almost got a hd-dvd for my Xbox 360.
Even though the decision (not to get it) was made by thinking about the noise the Xbox makes during a quiet scene, I would be definitely kicking myself reading these news if I got the damn device.
It also makes me want to buy a PS3 a bit more (just a bit more, but that bit is definitely there).
Can't wait to make one of these with a blu-ray laser. ;-)
http://lifehacker.com/software/diy/turn-a-flashlight-into-a-handheld-burning-laser-287252.php
Sorry HD-DVD is dieing because of back room politics and its not Microsoft. Really, half the time we are claiming they are a dino and dieing off and the next time they are a world power behind the scenes, about the only thing not pinned on them is 9/11.
This is about Hollywood studios lining up with a product more friendly with what they want.
I went with HD-DVD initially because of price. That and the fact ALL movies start immediately without bunches of lead in crap - something that disney loves.
I will get a BluRay once the price reaches HD-DVD player price points. Fortunately there aren't enough movies restricted to one player or the other. Do I think my "investment" in HD-DVD is wasted? No, because they aren't going to stop playing. Besides calling it an "investment" is just a lame way to justify what you spend on something that is essentially frivolous.
Grats to Sony on the win, too bad for the consumer as I while both have overpriced movies the BluRay players are not competitive. If anything it may slow down real High Definition roll outs.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Blu-ray holds more per layer (though not necessarily more per disc). Only from that single perspective is it a "superior technology". Of course in practice that just meant that studios released blu-ray films in the antiquated MPEG2 format, using the extra space to push an obsolete codec.
In every other way it is inferior. Perhaps by Profile 3.0 Blu-ray will have some of the capabilities of the HD-DVD stack.
They denied it, pure and simple. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they're going to. How about instead of ignoring their denial, you take it for face value until, you know, they actually do it. Until then, the rest of the world will be waiting for sub $100 Blu-Ray players before we even think about jumping on this train.
Over Xmas, I would hear people in electronics stores using the term Blu-ray. I think it is a name with a better cachet to it and believe this has had some effect on its success. The buying public often will pay more for a "better" name so they can say "I have a Blu-ray player." Sometimes the technology or other features will take second place to the name. Remember most of the folks buying these things are not literate /. readers.
Voters, um, I mean buyers, seem to be moved by that message of hope! Obama, um, I mean Blu-Ray, seems to be surging unexpectedly ahead! Change is in the air! The big mony gang is frustrated -- they've been causing change for 25 or more years -- why aren't more people listening? Iowa was a shock; Blu-Ray is 10 points ahead in the latest NH polls; south Carolina won't save HD-DVD; they've gotta re-group and start pointing out Blu-Ray's flaws from now until Super Tuesday!
Only thing I can't figure out is where is Ron Paul in all this? I think he represents 3D holographic TV. It's the darling of the techno-cognoscenti, but nobody really expects it to see the light of day.
--- Often in error; never in doubt!
reading this article about HD DVD losing another supporter, and right below the article, Blu-Ray ads constantly appear ......
so the HD DVD ads are dead too!
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
Bluray does 1080p, and HD-DVD does 1080i, at least with the way things are set up right now.
END COMMUNICATION
I think the winning of the BluRay format is mostly a marketing affair, more than a preferred format or technology... In fact, HD-DVD means "High Definition Digital Versatile Disk", which is pretty complicated to explain to consumer. It's not sexy nor simple.
BluRay is easy to remember, the blue color is the preferred color of A WHOLE LOT of people, and there's no true technical terms to associate with the name of the format (except that the laser is blue, but who really cares except the engineers who can focus the laser beam more precisely...). It's sexy, the logo looks great, the boxes are pretty.
On the other hand, it will probably take some time for the consumer to change its reflex of saying "I'm going to rent a DVD", while in fact he rents a BluRay Disc. But anyway, the name DVD is not sexy either...
Get educated.
Firstly, the difference between the two is completely irrelevant for movies (which is what we're talking about). I want 1080/24p, not the 1080/60p that the kids are giggling over.
Secondly, HD-DVD is the same 1080p as Blu-ray. Perhaps you mean specific players? There are 1080i and 1080p players for both formats.
Am I the only person who doesn't plan on buying either HD DVD or Bluray, no matter which one wins the format war?
I hate the idea of spending hard earned cash on DRM infested discs that will be obsolete in five years.
I already made the mistake of spending $1000+ on DVD's (now obsolete) and there is no way in hell i'm re-buying them all to line some sleazeball's pockets. For now i'll rely on bittorrent and and my apple cinema display.
Should have known HD DVD would be the loser as soon as they released "Serenity" on it. That show can't buy a break.
Whether this is true or false news, if a studio shifts from "HD-DVD exclusive" to "Bluray Exclusive", is it likely that they'll re-release the content on the other format? Or would it be a "from this point forward" thing?
"Investment" is a valid term here. A DVD player on its own is useless unless you really like setup menus. It gains value with each DVD you buy. If you have 100 discs, then a $200 DVD player will have cost an average of $2 per disc. If it becomes defunct before you buy 10, then it will have cost $20 per disc.
Search NewEgg for a HD DVD burner. There aren't any. Search for a Blu-ray burner, there are at least two. That is why HD DVD will die off. Even though you can make HD DVD titles with DVD Studio Pro ( and other software ), you can't burn one to show a client. The _computer_ industry is not interested in supporting HD DVD, only the _movie_ industry desires HD DVD. The announcements from other movie studios to drop HD DVD will come after CES is over so the news can be buried in the general press.
I sort of feel sorry for HD-DVD supports.
I appreciate the sentiment, but stop feeling sorry for us. Do you feel sorry for those people who still own and enjoy their laserdisc or Betamax players? No? Then there is no reason to feel sorry for us HD DVD owners either.
For $99, I bought a good upconverter and I'll still be able to watch all of the HD DVDs that I have as long as the hardware keeps running. Considering some of the other consumer electronics that I have, that could be five years or more, which will give me PLENTY of time to re-purchase the movies on BD for whenever I get my PS3.
I paid for the hardware and - damn it - I'm going to get my use out of it as long as I can, which is as it should be. I have no remorse for my purchases nor should I. In fact, if HD DVD does die, I look forward to the clearance sales where I can get a "backup" player and lots of cheap media.
I feel more pity for the people who hopped onto eBay to dump perfectly functional HD DVD hardware and software rather than keep using the thing until it stops working. THAT was a waste of money!
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Of course they deny, they want to offload their existing inventory first.
Then hopefully they will get to resell the same material in Blu-Ray and profit.
HD DVD can offer unencrypted content, and the mandatory managed copy system means even encrypted content can be stored in a central library, format shifted, and even streamed, if you're willing to use consumer tools to do so.
Blu-ray also has a number of downsides over both HD DVD and DVD, most notably that the BD+ system requires regular firmware updates, and that these firmware updates will be needed for the next year or two anyway because the Blu-ray spec, unlike HD DVD, still hasn't been finished.
And that pretty much guarantees that regardless of whether HD DVD dies or not, Blu-ray never, ever*, will displace DVD. A only marginal improvement in image and sound quality in return for a system unusable to a large portion of the population who neither have the skills nor resources to ensure their players are connected to the Internet.
* Well, ok, it might if they fix the bloody thing. But, at least as currently built, Blu-ray objectively is worse than the technology it supposedly obsoletes. If the Blu-ray consortium freeze the spec within the next six months and remove BD+ from it, then it might displace DVD. Operative word "might", the more expensive standard has to have real, discernible and compelling, advantages over the cheaper, incumbent, standard if it's going to get anywhere, and I'm just not seeing them. HD DVD did.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
So then blue-ray is to be succeeded by uv-ray? Or will we wait until somebody develops a gamma ray laser?
Every negative HD-DVD story on Slashdot is plastered with Blu-Ray ads. Heh.
Well, I bought one of the HD-DVD players at Christmas time and was quite happy with it...for about a week, when WB cut the legs out from under the format. The only actual title I've bought so far was a WB title. Heck, I took their statements about continuing neutrality to be honesty.
I figured it'd turn out that way, but thought the worse-but-final-and-cheaper format might pull one out. I guessed wrong, but at least I got a good upscaling DVD player out of the deal, and I think I'll go ahead and grab some titles before they disappear.
And as far as Blu-Ray goes, I'll wait until there's a non-sucky entry-level player that doesn't cost more than double my 3rd-gen HD-DVD player. I mean, really, a stand-alone player that sucks ass and costs as much as an entry-level PS3, which also plays Blu-Ray and comes with 5 free movies? What kind of moron is going to buy into that right now? I guess the same kind of suckers who buy brand-new computer tech as soon as it comes out.
The way I look at it, these studios just set HD movies BACK a year, and in that time, people won't be buying as many DVDs either, since the studios will take the attitude, "Just buy the Blu-Ray titles, morons!" before long. So have fun losing that revenue stream, guys.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Video CDs weren't region coded and didn't have any DRM. In spite of this, I'd say that DVDs are superior to CDs. They have a larger capacity and a larger from-disk transfer rate. The same is true of BD compared to HD-DVD. The other issues you raise have nothing to do with the disk formats, they are related to the content. By the time I get around to getting a BD drive I will have enough bandwidth to my home to stream HD content so which kind of shiny disk has the biggest restrictions aren't really relevant to me.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
No, the cheapest HD-DVD players are 1080i, but HD-DVD in general can be 1080p, and many of the players are. I believe that Blu-Ray mandates 1080p in all players, but I'm not sure on that. On the other side of things, I believe that HD-DVD mandates that all players have an ethernet connection, while Blu-Ray does not (even though many Blu-Ray players do have it.)
SCO claims BluRay using proprietary SCO technology and is pursuing a cease and desist order against Sony and other companies listed here.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
If the consumer was the winner, they'd have chosen the format based on their qualities, rather than being forced into a choice by corporations.
If the consumer was the winner, they'd have a format that's less constricted by DRM.
If the consumer was the winner, they'd pay less for goods.
If the consumer was the winner, they'd expect full compatibility right out the door. I can update a PS3 to BR 1.1, and even then 2.0, but how many consumers do you think will without having to take their player into the Sony store?
Furthermore, if HDDVD were to drop from the face of the earth today, do you think Sony would be as likely to update their software, or might they instead take the stance that 'since they're still selling players, the product must be good enough'??
The consumer could have chosen the format to succeed DVD. And that choice could have been BluRay (tho you can see that I don't approve.) But they didn't get to choose based on qualities.
The electronics are dirt cheap in the quantities consumer electronics use them. Why do we have to choose just one format? I want a combo player that will play ALL of the formats.
Bearded Dragon
I actually had it without the dash, and then re-checked TFA to make sure. Paints a altogether different picture doesn't it?
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
I think what it comes down to is politics. Sony has been put on their arse for the past 2-3 years and hit hasn't stopped. The failure of Betamax The fall of the Diskman The Playstation 3 fiasco Blue-Rays huge cost and some other major incidents that I can't quite recall at this moment Sony despite its downfalls and issues is still a major contributor of hardware and software and therefore needs to make money. I'm assuming they put a lot of effort into the PS3 and BlueRay, but it hasn't been panning out for them, and they were destined to take a huge fall because of this. My speculation is that other major corps out there saw a economic blunder (Sony) coming down the road, but because Sony still has a large amount of hardware and software out there to support and maintain, they couldn't let Sony go down the rabbithole. I think it was corporations, with some foresight of a possible stock loss, that caused other companies to back out of HD-DVD. There are bigger players here than we know of, but unfortunately it's not about the consumer and what they would like to see happen... it's what stockholders want to see happen.
Their legal department would make them do so regardless of the real behind the scenes decisons being made. Until they've executed any potential outs in their contract a public admission could potentially cause them problems depending upon the specific terms.
Corporate legal departments are notoriously cautious and anal about these things. And no, IANAL nor do I play one on TV. I've just worked with plenty of legal departments at the corporate level and this is how they think.
Marginal quality? I was watching a Blu-Ray movie and it didn't look like a movie, it freakin' looked like I was watching action just outside a window. It was literal jaw dropping. I have yet to see that with HD-DVD.
Besides, HD-DVD uses rep to identify their movies; where as Blu-Ray uses blue. Which one do you think looks more appealing to the consumer? The success of consumer electronics is often not depndant on technical merits, but visual ones.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Besides, HD-DVD uses red to identify their movies; where as Blu-Ray uses blue. Which one do you think looks more appealing to the consumer? The success of consumer electronics is often not depndant on technical merits, but visual ones.
Sounds like a frivilous point but it probably has more effect than you'd think. People react to colour instinctively.. red is a danger sign. HDDVD should have used green (nature, 'everything OK' colour), or a pastel shade (less reaction, softer). That's why many stores that traditionally had red logos and shop fronts have rebranded over the last few years.
The words "grip on film content" makes me feel all cornered.
They shouldn't - the grip they speak of is on the rope they are pulling against HD-DVD. Once the tug of war is over, they come out of the mud pit and we all enjoy a picnic of media in a single format with healthy competition among studios and hardware makers - just like DVD.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't know if you could call DAT a failure... Mini disk and memory sticks, maybe, but DAT was/is pretty popular in the recording industry.
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
BD-Live mandates ethernet I think. That's mostly future though... it prempts the growth of streaming by potentially allowing consumers to stream Bluray movies - trailers are apparently available already.
Microsoft shouldn't have put HD DVD in to the X-Box 360, it would have hurt X-Box 360 owners just as Blu-ray did Playstation 3 buyers
That's not really true though. While having the extra expense of the drive may have hurt Sony, is hasn't hurt PS3 owners - who get a game system with larger amounts of storage, and a Blu-Ray player to boot. It might have hurt them if the format war had gone the other way, in that a part of the system they counted on being useful no longer was - but that is not the case.
I would actually argue it hasn't hurt Sony either, not in the long term. Winning the format war means now uptake of Blu-Ray will increase console sales, instead of the PS3 helping Blu-Ray sales as was the case before. Having a next gen gaming system with more storage space is also already an advantage for gaming and will continue to be so.
If Microsoft would have won the war on the HD-DVD side by including the drive in their system, then at this point they would be reaping the same benefits and Sony would be in a terrible position. But Sony banked on Microsoft not thinking beyond a quarter, and I guess with Microsoft that's a pretty good bet to make.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You've really got it in for BD haven't you? You're contradicting your journal entry when you say the HD DVD spec is finished... there you promoted HD DVD because they've recently added a third layer to bring it up to the same capacity as BD (ignoring the fact that BD is designed to scale up to 200GB).
Any Hollywood title will have AACS on HD DVD, whether or not it's mandatory. Your point is moot. BD doesn't require AACS, as many people making movie discs at home will discover. Most consumers don't care about things like AACS and BD+, and so this will have no bearing on displacing DVD. As for the firmware updates... have you seen how many times the Toshiba players have had to updated in the last year? Made particularly tricky by their buggy network settings that often don't set the netmask or default gateway properly (I've helped maintain six of them, and more than half have had problems).
Sure, just like Warner was denying their format exclusivity right up until the day they were not.
If there is a clause, what makes you think it's not needed? HD-DVD sales have tanked on Amazon, and there are also rumors of some retailers dropping HD-DVD altogether. If that happens, I would say Paramount would consider it nessecary to invoke the clause.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
the more expensive standard has to have real, discernible and compelling, advantages over the cheaper, incumbent, standard if it's going to get anywhere,
I wish I shared your idealism. Human nature being what it is, sometimes it just has to be newer.
I've been intentionally waiting to buy movies for the last year or so because what's the point of owning a DVD if I just buy a Blu-ray or HD player in another year or two? It's like when all the VHS tapes were crazy cheap at the rental stores because they were going DVD - why would you buy them? Just get the DVD. I understand that there are a few old movies worth watching that haven't been brought over to DVD but chances are that if you like them, you already own them.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
Given they both use the same encoding, really, I seriously doubt that you've noticed any quality improvement Blu-ray has over HD-DVD watching the same movie on the same screen. No serious commentator is suggesting either format has an edge with quality. And right now, anyone who doesn't have a very, very, large TV, that does 1080 and has a really good contrast ratio is not going to notice a significant advantage either format has over DVD. It's not that there's no difference, I was pretty excited seeing the opening scene of "Bladerunner" on HD DVD, and there are a few panoramic shots in The Bourne Ultimatum that stand out too; but for most of most movies, there's no significant improvement. It's a scene here and there that looks slightly better but you'd never have even noticed a lack of quality on DVD.
Wow, there's a technical advantage right there! I'm going to create the SuperAwesomeHD format, they'll have to switch to it with a name like that!
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
The story I'm waiting for is a story about a media company spokesperson saying:
"We've determined that most viewers don't care about the difference between either HD format and and standard DVD, so we have decided to drop both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, and from now on will issue all of our releases in DVD only. We save money by not having to support the new formats, and, accordingly, we are lowering the prices of all our DVDs by 15%."
Now, that would be news.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
That's what I've been saying the past few months. The problem with HD-DVD is it's too consumer friendly.
Studios want region coding. They want all the fancy DRM. They want the ability to find who makes pirated Blu-Rays (ROM-Mark makes this easy).
Heck, Blu-Ray offering 1.0 (Grace Period, expired 31-Oct-2007), 1.1, and 2.0 profiles, offers Blu-Ray studios to re-sell the movie 3 more times. First, they release the movie, no extras, 1.0 only. Then they release a 1.1 "special edition" with PIP and all that good stuff. They'll then release another "collector's edition" for 1.1 that has even more stuff. Oh, and they'll release a 2.0 "super ultimate collector's edition director's cut" for those with 2.0 players. And there'll be plenty of "Director's cut", "super colelctor's edition" in varying Blu-Ray profiles so those with players who can't do the newer profiles can still play them.
The lack of region coding hurt HD-DVD badly, because it often meant that HD-DVDs of movies took much longer to come out as studios waited until it wasn't shown in theatres. After all, if you could import the HD-DVD from the US, why bother seeing it in the theatre? It's a two-edge sword. The DVD Forum learned that region coding didn't work, angered consumers, and even had countries enacting laws making it legal to break region coding. So they didn't bother with HD-DVD. Now the source material decided that artificial separation of markets was good for them, and decided that releasing HD-DVDs with the DVD releases meant those countries which are still showing the movie would hurt, badly. (Nevermind how much it costs to import/ship to said country...).
Blu-Ray's region coding is "better" in that sense - after all, they can release a Blu-Ray in the Americas and be confident that people in Asia can't watch. (Yeah, you could import a region A PS3...).
Either you appease the content creators, or you appease the content consumers. Unfortunately, appeasing the latter tends to make the content sparse. Blu-Ray appeases the creators, screws the consumers.
If anything, this high-def war has made it possible for consumers to enjoy high-def affordably. If it was Blu-Ray only, would Blu-Ray and HD-DVD be as popular now? Or maybe as affordable? We'd probably still be paying $1000 for a Blu-Ray player had it not been the fact that the HD-DVD player launched a few months earlier was half that price. It took several years for DVD players to drop from their $1000 price tags to $100, and that was only because there was a definite upgrade path from VHS to DVD. Heck, the PS3 will probably have "won" as the console of choice simply because it was the only affordable Blu-Ray player that worked well (except given its annoying lack of consumer IR, and thus integration with many universal remotes).
I have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. The last high-def disc I bought was Transformers (have DVD as well). My HD-DVD collection consists of maybe 7 movies, Blu-Ray, probably 4. I bought many DVDs in the meantime, many, many, DVDs. The last thing I purchased (Simpsons Movie) came in both DVD and Blu-Ray, and I bought the DVD. The war might have dissuaded consumers, but if you can't even get people who own high-def to even BUY high-def... then maybe "DVD is good enough". Yes, I've spurned both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray versions for the DVD (though I do like HD-DVD more, it's just not worth its cost more).
Honestly, Blu-Ray discs have gotten a lot better since the beginning, partly because of competition. You spend $30 and often got less than the DVD ($20) would've got you, especially in extras. At least now Blu-Ray tends to approach the content of the DV
Given Microsoft's involvement, the fear is that any green identifier used would eventually turn red, at which point you would have to ship your HD DVD back to the factory for service.
right underneath the story titled 'Paramount to Drop HD DVD?', I see a great big advert proclaiming 'The future is Blu.... visit bluraydisc.com' - nice one!
Because until there is a clear winner, no studio can afford to be dismissive of the other format (or the customers who support that format) since they may have backed the loser and will end up switching. The only studios that can be 100% supporters of their current format are the ones who have a serious vested interest in it (i.e. Sony Pictures); the rest are understandably wishy-washy.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Comcast has said they'll start rolling out service with up to 160 Mbit/s later this year - that's 20 MB/s. Blu-Ray's fastest read is 9 MB/s so you can only watch two of those live off the Internet at once.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/01/08/ces.comcast.ap/index.html
The electronics may be dirt-cheap, but the licenses are not.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
The adult video industry has it's say.
People compare the adoption of HD video format discs to the adoption of other formats, but there's something that never gets brought up enough, and in my experience is what really drove DVD in it's early days:
DVD was a far more usable format than tapes. You didn't have to rewind it, it was smaller, harder to ruin, didn't get tangled up all the time, allowed extra content to be easily accessible, allowed other multimedia content (such as pictures), alternate video and audio tracks, and even interactive features. A lot of people that I met, from vastly different walks of life, were most interested in the features that DVDs had over tapes, and not so much the increased video and audio fidelity.
In contrast, the HD formats, basically ONLY have higher quality. As a result, people don't want to buy HD discs because they don't care enough, but they realize they will in the future be buying HD versions of every DVD they own, so they're also holding off buying original DVDs. There's more to the issues in the current market than the format war.
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Don't hold your breath.
Old information. 1.1 players are out, 2.0 will be out early this spring. Loooong before there is any serious uptake in HDM players in the consumer market. This is a non-issue, but often sited by zealots.
I probably don't have as much respect for "the common man" as I should. I am not dumb enough to state things about him that flies in the face of observed fact though. The vast majority of people who are going to buy a Blu-Ray player is already on the 'net. Naturally. They were able to connect their PC/Mac to the 'net, why would you think they would not be able to do so with their player? Hell, even my 65 year old father was able to install a wireless router in his house when he upgraded from a desktop to a laptop and from POTS to VoIP, and believe me, if it isn't a hammer, he doesn't much know what to do with a tool. When he goes Blu-Ray, his player will most likely have a wireless connection, so it won't be an issue at all.
Microsoft is not HD-DVD. That is why it wasn't included with the xbox. The ONLY reason an HD-DVD player exists for the xbox is because they weren't going to offer BluRay, since Sony would profit.
You can point the finger at Toshiba for not getting HD-DVD in the xbox. They should have offered to eat all costs to get the drive in the 360. If they had, we would have a very different situation right now. I guess maybe they did make such an offer, but why wouldn't Microsoft have taken it? It would have benefited both sides.
Is 42" "very, very, large"? Does a 1080p Westinghouse LCD have a "really good contrast ratio"? That's my setup, and if you can't see the difference between upconverted DVD and HD on my TV you are blind as a bat.
Look at the amazon's best DVD sales ranking that combines DVD, BR, HD DVD.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/ref=pd_dp_ts_d_1
It's updated realtime.
I proceeded to make a little count yesterday.
The first HD DVD was only 34th, while the first premier Blu-Ray was second.
Roughly a first of the 30 first BR/DVD/HD DVD sales are Blu-ray title, so even compared to DVD, BR is doing well.
Only taking into account the BR and HD DVD, you would see BR titles in first ten places then the first HD DVD title in the 11th place.
That was before the Warner announcements starts to have a effect on sales, just wait a few weeks.
Sales of HD DVD are performing worser and worser comparatively to BR, Warner only took notice of the reality and acted accordingly.
From now, the demise of HD DVD can only accelerate, last studios ignoring BR won't be able to continue doing so for long I mean how could you explain to your shareholder you'll significantly reduce your profits for supporting the format the market excluded ? Too bad for those studios that are to strongly tied with HD DVD.
Comcast has said they'll start rolling out service with up to 160 Mbit/s later this year - that's 20 MB/s. Blu-Ray's fastest read is 9 MB/s so you can only watch two of those live off the Internet at once.
And then after you transfer 100GB of data for two movies, what are you going to do without internet the rest of the month now that you've blown your secret bandwidth quota?
Of course it's not like you could really get those speeds from any server except one hosted by your cable provider. And by "start to roll out" it means eight people in some large metro area will get it, followed by an additional eight people the following year...
Can you start to see now why we are realistically at least a few years off from true mass adoption of even casual internet media downloads to replace disc rentals or purchases?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sure they've denied it. But if you're going to go only by what they've said and not allow reasoned assumptions as to what will actually happen, they have also said they put all future HD-DVD releases on hold. So technically they are out of the game at this point. Unless you wish to assume they will resume sales at some point.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Without the 2nd Amendment, the others are just suggestions.
The other big difference i have noticed between the formats respective "camps" is the quality, quantity of advertising for their products. Blu-Ray commercials are everywhere touting the screen quality with huge explosions, fancy animations, etc etc. HDDVD commercials get some actor from the Sopranos that no one even knows the name of sitting on a couch talking about how clear it looks. Pretty boring if you ask me. Aside from that the sheer amount of commercials touting a films availability on Blu-Ray seem to far outweigh the amount of commercials making mentions of HDDVD. Blu-Ray makes sure to say, "Available on Blu-Ray", while HDDVD commercials seem to say "Available on Hi Definition", which doesnt inform the consumer really what the difference is. Most average joes may not have a HD player at home, but they have heard of Blu-Ray, many have differentiated between regular DVD and HDDVD, one inlaw i had actually bought an upscaling dvd player thinking it was an HDDVD player due to the description on the device. HDDVD is just more confusing in its name alone. Blu-Ray cant be mistaken. I am not saying this was a major issue for HDDVD, but i dont feel like they reached out to the everyday consumer and educated them properly, like the BDA did with blu-ray.
When it stops being what's next, and starts being the old format that titles are being dumped in en mass on the cheap.
I have a nice library of VHS tapes, mostly from the 80s and early 90s, and am accumulating DVDs at an increasingly rapid clip.
I've spent, maybe 800$ total on easily 200-250 movies.
But until this Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD war thing is over, I'm enjoying my DVD Upconverting player. It may be 09 before I consider going any further than that.
http://dvdupconvert.wordpress.com/
Since its been announced at CES that the PS3 will include an update to support Profile 2.0 in a future firmware, does that mean that 2.0 players are available now? (an that they have been for a little over a year?
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Sony are DRM-crazed control freaks. This is NOT a victory for consumers.
The movie industry in general is DRM crazed - but they are starting to back out of some aspects. Starting to allow copies (managed unfortunately), and have greatly reduced the use of region codes.
If you don't reward the industry when they do something better, how do you expect them to change?
May I remind you which studio was putting rootkits on all their CD's not so long ago?
It wasn't Sony Movies. It was Sony Music, which Sony Movies had no say in. Perhaps you are the one who needs reminding.
Do you really think they won't use their dominance to try some similar stuff with blu-ray?
Since they are not in control of the format, no.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's not over yet. Maybe Oprah will endorse HD-DVD.
"Blu-ray supports region encoding."
HD-DVD was getting it too.
"Don't tell me the studios don't love that annoying ability."
Oh they do and it pisses me off no end, no argument there.
"Don't tell me the studios don't love that annoying ability."
I believe they're also made of a far more scratch resistant material.
"And the much greater data density is also of great value from a copy protection and distribution POV. Hard drive storage of ripped movies becomes much more expensive"
Wait, wait, am I reading this right - more capacity is a BAD thing?
Internet downloads are even more prohibitive in terms of both bandwidth (not everyone has unlimited high bandwidth connections) and time (not everyone has the patience to wait 3-6 weeks to download a movie they want to see).
Newsflash for ya - the storage format isn't gonna matter a rats arse (to borrow your phrase) when it comes to net downloads, which will continue to be downsampled and compressed as necessary. It doesn't matter whether HD-DVD or BluRay becomes the defacto standard, it's utterly immaterial to downloads.
"More space should equal higher bitrates."
And with BluRay it does.
Now, the DRM is an issue I'll agree with you on, it sucks big time. But the rest of your post wasn't much help.
Given the fact that there are no 2.0 enabled movies out yet - you could probably say that :-)
I don't buy disks anymore. With disks costing $30 a pop, a $5/mo Netflix subscription makes a heck of a lot more sense. And in the rental scenario, I don't really care if the movies are protected or not. I wouldn't want to copy them even if I could - I'll maybe watch each movie a couple of times in my life. The exception is cartoons for my kid, but there SD seems to be perfectly adequate.
I decided to treat myself to a Blu-Ray drive for the new system I ordered. The excuse was I needed to burn back up disks, a legit reason, but the real reason I wanted it was for movies. I've been staying away from the format wars so I hadn't followed how nasty the copy protections are I'd heard there were problems with some disks on Playstations but not about PCs. Turns out a percentage of the disks won't play on computer drives as a way to prevent you from ripping them. Well in my case it's preventing me from buying Blu-Ray movies. I can't play them I'm not buying them. I still need the drive but I have to say I probably wouldn't have gotten it if I had known the problem was that bad. I was planning to get a HiDef set up with at least Blu-Ra and probably a combo drive in the spring but this little episode pissed me off enough to avoid both formats. One sure way to end the format wars, Stop Buying Either Format! I was a huge laser disk fan and I was looking forward to 1080 level movies. Now I'm already sick of the whole thing and I have yet to play a movie in either format. I noticed Blockbuster hardly stocked anything in Blu-Ray. I guess I know why. When I returned the film they weren't surprised, it happens all the time. Why spend a fortune on players and movies that won't work???? I want a HiDef format but I'm already hoping for a third contender because I can't stand either one. The irony is I'm a hug supporter of copyrights but if I buy a movie I damn well expect to be able to play it. Pounding on the paying customers is going to get them nowhere. My personal recommendation is to tell your friends to sit this one out and hopefully both formats will fail and they come up with something more reasonable. It was bad enough when copy protections on VHS tapes would degrade the tape after a couple of playings but now they have protections so radical they brick the disk out of the box.
I'll wait until this or this comes out.
There's already solutions beyond Blu-ray or HD-DVD on the works.
For me, at the moment, DVD's are fine: (very) cheap and everyone has at least one DVD player in their homes.
Which is laughable.
HD-DVD is not "up-converted" DVD. The picture quality (1080p) of an HD-DVD is identical to that of a Blu-Ray DVD.
Reading is a skill.
I have to agree with the GP: I've got both (360 with an HD-DVD going into the VGA port and a PS3 going into one of the HDMI ports on my Samsung 40" 1080p LCD) and, while I've not seen the same movie on both players, I have to say that Blu-Ray's quality is significantly better overall. I was really disappointed in the HD-DVD quality which honestly didn't seem much better than DVD, while the Blu-Ray output was just lovely.
I'm willing to concede that it could be something to do with the VGA signal processing in my TV, etc. but, as Microsoft didn't see fit to equip my 360 with an HDMI port, they can just suck my balls. That's all the sympathy they'll get from me if it's their player's design making a mess out of playing their format.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
What a bonus, Wal-Mart already sells doctored copies of media as 'original' with their own ideals censored into the content.
Now Sony who dictate their own morality though their licensing are winning a major format war.
Why are people happy about this? The manufacturer of what will possibly become the defacto standard for video media, won't permit content they deem to be immoral on their product. People should be outraged over this.
This alone is why I support HD-DVD. Yes it's Microsoft, but at least they don't tell people what they can and can't distribute on the media.
I won't be buying ANY HD media at least until they can be played by a player that has absolutely no moving parts. Spinning disks? Puhleeze, that's so 20th century...
What has Sony rejected on blu-ray? Seems like your outraged over nothing.
I only buy new, as in new to me, movies on Blu-ray, because I DON'T care to see the same movie again with slightly better quality. However, the difference in quality on a 1080p native HDTV, is great enough that I will not buy DVDs anymore unless it's from the bargain bin, and I sure as hell wouldn't buy a newly released movie on DVD. I'd imagine most other switchers would do the same. If anything, this will be a much more casual, easier transition process than with VHS-DVD. I clearly remember, once I started renting/buying DVDs, I was NOT going back to tape, for anything. That transition must have sucked for people with large tape collections. Now, I could go either way on most new purchases, but still with strong reasons to go up if I can. I'm perfectly happy with my old DVD collection also. It's not really worth it to re-buy remastered movies all over again this time around, and I doubt HD movie backers are heavily counting on re-buys to be successful.
Upconverted DVDs just DON'T look as good as newer HD movies on 1080 HDTVs, and it's easy to tell the difference. I think all this upconversion vs. HD crap keeps coming from 720p HDTV owners, which probably accounts for most of the current HDTVs out there. I'm predicting that HD movie adoption will basically track with 1080p HDTV adoption.
Yes, that is an entirely different reason than for the VHS-DVD transition, but is it really a BIG problem? I mean, with resolution being big attraction, was anybody REALLY expecting them to fly off the shelves before TVs supporting that resolution did?
OK, I can see how heavy 720p HDTV adoption might have really mucked things up, I guess... Hopefully they'll be able to push 1080 soon enough to support the DVD-HD transition better.
Now I'll need a fake ID to rent ultraporn.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hence, HD-DVD should be rebadged, all the DRM shit cleaned out of it with bleach and disinfectant, and sold as a really big DVD (maybe DIVX/XVID as an included codec as standard) that's recordable and works with any TV (no HDCP), and then make some nice cheap PC drives too.
Fuck the studios if they don't want it... the HDDVD consortium should make a product that customers want, instead of the studios.
They won't do this of course... but we can dream.
I sure hope that the blu-ray consortium charges Paramount at least twice as much than Paramount get from Microsoft for defecting to HD-DVD camp. Great way to make mucho money!!!!
More important: Higher bandwidth. Not only can you store more data on the disk, you can transfer more of it to the TV in real time. That means better picture. 33% higher bandwidth.
I suggest you take a reading class. You seem to have failed the last one you took. The following is what I quoted and responded to. In that he talks about standard definition DVDs vs either of the two HD formats.
I'm sick of Microsoft and they're behind HD DVD. I love Java and think anti Java people are uninformed and ignorant.
I want Blu Ray to win, so any news about HD DVD losing ground and Blu Ray gaining is good news to me.
A more positive way to view it is that Microsoft lost! :)
How do you figure that? WMV VC-1 is part of the Blu-Ray spec, too.
lookie
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
According to this article, Paramount received $150M to go with HDDVD:
"Paramount and DreamWorks Animation together will receive about $150 million in financial incentives for their commitment to HD DVD, according to two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html
So sounds like it was simply a contract and bound to end eventually. No big news then?
360 has good games, PS3 has the same crap that sony has proposed for the last few years (but people like crap, sigh...read atari lynx vs gameboy or dreamcast vs playstation)...
> They were able to connect their PC/Mac to the 'net,
> why would you think they would not be able to do so with their player?
Because your PC tends to be near your modem. Your TV does not. Also PCs support wireless networking. Very few blu-ray players do (none in my local shop do) and therefore need a cable running half way across your house to put it on the net. It's not that people don't know HOW to do this - it's that they WON'T. Who wants cables running all over their house just so they can play movies in slightly better quality.
From normal viewing distances (NOT standing 4 ft away in a shop) most people can't even tell the difference between high definition and standard definition on the average 32" screen (the average size of a TV in the UK is 31 inches). Unless someone buys us all massive 50" inch screens, there is currently no point in upgrading.
I refuse to buy anything to do with Sony so I'm stuffed. I was really hoping HD-DVD would win out but it really does look like game over despite the clarification press release.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
If you're a believer in the predictive power of Google Trends, then the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray was over a long time ago, and Blu-Ray's margin of victory continues to increase:
Google Trends: HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray
The Big News Page
The most common Blu-Ray player on the market today is the PS3, and it supports wireless networking. Since the PS3 is the most popular player, the other manufacturers will have to match it in features (the new announced players clearly have the PS3 in their sight), so long before the regular consumers get their players, wireless will be the norm.
This is absolutely correct, and the vast majority of the people who have 32" screens do not have HD capabilities. Therefore, what people with 32" screens can and can not see is totally irrelevant, they can't even plug their HD player into their TV and get any kind of picture at all. HD is for people who recently bought new TVs, TVs with HDMI inputs that are HD capable. Most of these are in the 42" and up range, and on these TVs anyone who is not blind can tell the difference.
I do like your argument though, it is funny. Way back when, when the BBC moved from black and white to color, you would have been arguing that it was a stupid move on part of BBC since most people didn't have color TVs and therefore would not be able to tell the difference.
Well most of the games I play exist on both. Technically COD, GRAW, RS and occasionally a driving game.
For me it is Xbox live at the moment what keeps me with Xbox. I am really not sure how good online gaming is with FPS games. I would be kinda pissed to get a PS3 to figure out that people do not play online, or that the few servers are not working form Costa Rica.
I know XBL works just fine from Costa Rica (green/yellow = OK pings - I have a 65-80 ping to Miami),. I know people who have problems accessing WII online games from here, and know absolutely no living sould who owns a PS3.....
Still, that blueray player and the same games are kinda inviting.
Some folks such as Seagate CEO Bill Watkins claim that the Blu-ray HD-DVD format war dragged on long enough to make network transfer of movies the preferred format. Personally I have my doubts. If I own a physical disc DVD, I can loan it to my neighbor, bring it on the road and let my kids watch it on a hotel DVD player, and generally treat it as if I own it outright. Blu-ray will be the same. If I electronically download a movie, DRM greatly limits the hardware on which it will play: either my desktop or my laptop or maybe my Tivo, but probably not all of the above. And if I replace my media PC in two years time, how many hoops do I jump through to re-license my collection on new hardware? Nope, the DRM on network movies is worse than the DRM on the disks.
--- Often in error; never in doubt!
Really, half the time we are claiming they are a dino and dieing off and the next time they are a world power behind the scenes, about the only thing not pinned on them is 9/11.
They should hire up George Bush when his term is up - he's expert on being a complete blundering idiot who can't wipe his bum while simultaneously taking over the world.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
You don't understand - even if Blu Ray disks are $15, I won't be buying them anyway. I will maybe want to watch each movie once, there's no point in me owning it. And Netflix doesn't actually enforce the 2 per month rule (at least not on me). And even if they did, assuming Blu Ray disks are $15 and I watch each movie once, renting is 6 times less expensive.