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Jimmy Wales Faces Allegations of Corruption

eldavojohn writes "The SFGate site has up an article noting that Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, is facing allegations from multiple quarters accusing him of abusing his power. Several people apparently claim he used the foundation to pay for personal expenses, including reimbursement for a $1,300 dinner for four at a Florida steakhouse. Accusations have also been made indicating that he edited the Wikipedia entry of political commentator Rachel Marsden, a woman he was seeing, at her request. In the case of that allegation, Wales replied that 'I acted completely consistently with Wikipedia policy. I did the right thing: I passed along my work to date for other editors to deal with, and I recused myself from the case.'"

289 comments

  1. The devious plot is out.. again by fictionpuss · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The most interesting thing about Wikipedia is that it could be founded by a hypocritical douche, but still remain a valuable repository of information. That in itself is enough to convince me that Web2.0 isn't just an empty phrase, not least because it is the legacy of Wikimedia and collaborative knowledge gathering which makes accounts of such douchiness hard to suppress.

    That, and the fact that the Wikipedia elite seem to be so inept in keeping secret their devious plots.

    1. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Everyone is a hypocrite at some point in their life. The question isn't how do we deal with hypocrites, its how the hypocrites handle being caught in their hypocrisy, which is really telling of what kind of person they really are. Was it a momentary lapse in judgment or a deeper character flaw.

      The difference is "Oh Crap, Sorry. How do I fix this?" verses "I did nothing wrong"

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      Nobody ever said you had to have common sense to be corrupt.

    3. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      The most interesting thing about Wikipedia is that it could be founded by a hypocritical douche, but still remain a valuable repository of information.

      True, but IF there is any merit to the allegation that he is misappropriating donated funds, then he has to go. Or at least some significant fiscal oversight needs to be put in place, and a responsible board of (unpaid) directors needs to take over. Otherwise, they will simply lose all support and his douchebaggery will indeed have destroyed it as a resource.

    4. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make a good point, but WTF does this have with Web2.0? AFAIK Wikipedia doesn't use AJAX (thank god), and I can even read it just fine with Javascript turned off.

    5. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by meteors · · Score: 1

      Jimmy Wales seems to lack a moral compass. I believe he was involved in pornography before he started Wikipedia. The best thing Wales can do for Wikipedia at this point is to step down.

    6. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by fictionpuss · · Score: 1

      You make a good point, but WTF does this have with Web2.0? AFAIK Wikipedia doesn't use AJAX (thank god), and I can even read it just fine with Javascript turned off. From this definition of Web2.0:

      "O'Reilly provided examples of companies or products that embody these principles in his description of his four levels in the hierarchy of Web 2.0-ness. Level-3 applications, the most "Web 2.0"-oriented, only exist on the Internet, deriving their effectiveness from the inter-human connections and from the network effects that Web 2.0 makes possible, and growing in effectiveness in proportion as people make more use of them. O'Reilly gave as examples eBay, Craigslist, Wikipedia, del.icio.us, Skype, dodgeball and AdSense."

      And no, I didn't just edit that in.

    7. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      the Wikipedia elite seem to be so inept in keeping secret their devious plots.

      How do you know? I mean, for all you know, they're actually really adept at keeping their devious plots secret. I mean, I doubt it, but for all we know, they've covered up hundreds of other scandals, and it's only these few that trickle to our ears.

      In this case, I doubt it, due to the openness of the medium and the inherent traceability. I'm just saying that if someone is adept at keeping their plots secret, by definition you wouldn't know they had anything (else) to hide in the first place.

      No, I don't know any plots or dirt or anything, I'm just being pedantic.

    8. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by fictionpuss · · Score: 1

      the Wikipedia elite seem to be so inept in keeping secret their devious plots. How do you know? I mean, for all you know, they're actually really adept at keeping their devious plots secret. I mean, I doubt it, but for all we know, they've covered up hundreds of other scandals, and it's only these few that trickle to our ears. Oh, for sure.. and I handily highlighted the weasel word I left in there. But if they are so practiced at covering up hundreds of (presumably worse) scandals, then why are the ones which leak out just kinda reek of lame rather than being sinister?

      Admittedly this could underscore be the true deviousness of their plot, but if I controlled the database of one of the worlds most used reference resources, I could think up countless plans which easily didn't involve me looking lame to the rest of the world.

    9. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by AxelBoldt · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe he was involved in pornography before he started Wikipedia.

      You say that as if it were a bad thing.

    10. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by meteors · · Score: 1

      You say that as if you have a healthy relationship with women.

    11. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      I wasn't being completely serious, but I meant it in the broad case - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Now, I'm not running around accusing people of things, I'm just saying.

    12. Re:The devious plot is out.. again by fictionpuss · · Score: 1

      I wasn't being completely serious, but I meant it in the broad case - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Now, I'm not running around accusing people of things, I'm just saying. I get it :-) Mostly though, I chose your post to respond to because it gave me the opportunity to poke more fun at the lame petty antics of the Wikilete. Considering that dude does read and participate here, it has a good chance of hitting the target, whether or not it has any influence towards getting him to act with more maturity is less certain.
  2. Jimbo Hilton by inflamed · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey, internet celebrities are just as scandalous and shocking as television celebrities. It's like beer for your computer screen.

    1. Re:Jimbo Hilton by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      The difference between Jimmy Wales and Paris Hilton is Jimmy Wales actually did something that benefitted the word.

      I mean, besides porn.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    2. Re:Jimbo Hilton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Benefited the Word? As in, the Word of God? ;-) ... oh, you meant the worLd!

    3. Re:Jimbo Hilton by BigJClark · · Score: 1


      So, Slashdot is the equivilant of the supermarket rag for reporting on it then? I've become my own worst enemy.

      --

      Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    4. Re:Jimbo Hilton by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, world. I think it's still Monday.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  3. that's funny by ILuvRamen · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey that's funny, it doesn't talk about any of that on Jimmy Wales' wikipedia page...hmmm

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:that's funny by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 3, Interesting
      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
  4. this should not be anything new by OrochimaruVoldemort · · Score: 1

    i'm more than confident that he has been doing this long before it went public

    --
    If people can get past, can they get future? Best way to confuse a stoner
  5. Like Volkswagen by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    which was Hitler's baby.

    No need to throw out the product with the person.

    Not that I'm equating Wales with Hitler, just using an extreme case to make my point.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Like Volkswagen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      First Goodwin!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Like Volkswagen by ajs · · Score: 1, Troll

      So we've Godwinned a thread that talks about Jimmy Wales "evil plot" to take 3 people out to an expensive dinner and edit his date's user page.

      Really? That's what we're going to accuse him of? And with hitler references, no less?

      Sad.

      What's really sad is that when we talk about the head of SCO or Microsoft, we require much more evil before we start throwing rocks than we do for Google or Wikipedia, both of which have contributed more to Open Source than the vast majority of their peers and frankly made the world just a little bit more useful in their wake.

    3. Re:Like Volkswagen by provigilman · · Score: 0, Redundant

      What's really sad is that when we talk about the head of SCO or Microsoft, we require much more evil before we start throwing rocks than we do for Google or Wikipedia

      What are you smoking, and can I have some??? This slashdot, the home of "M$". The mere mention of Microsoft or Bill Gates is enough evil for people around here to start slamming them.

      Also, after RTFA, I found myself wondering why this woman had Jimmy's personal e-mail address two years before they started dating... Perhaps he doesn't consider affairs "dating"???

      --
      "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
    4. Re:Like Volkswagen by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

      What's really sad is that when we talk about the head of SCO or Microsoft, we require much more evil before we start throwing rocks than we do for Google or Wikipedia


      You're kidding right? Are we visiting the same Slashdot?

      I can't recall ever reading anything overly negative about Google and I think people here are generally quick to defend them. The criticisms of Microsoft are never-ending. Even a positive story on Microsoft descends into a bash-fast.

      Regarding, Wikipedia, as has been mentioned I think it's great that content is so open to editing. This moderating increases the likelihood that content is accurate and true. It's not foolproof, however. A story may conform to what the majority of visitors believe and that doesn't necessarily coincide with the truth.
    5. Re:Like Volkswagen by Otter · · Score: 1
      What's really sad is that when we talk about the head of SCO or Microsoft, we require much more evil before we start throwing rocks....

      I think you mean "throwing chairs"...

      Anyway, putting aside your odd complaint that people here don't hate SCO and Microsoft with sufficient mindlessness and insanity, it should be completely clear that the GP wasn't comparing Wales to Hitler. If nothing else, the "Not that I'm equating Wales with Hitler..." should have clarified that.

    6. Re:Like Volkswagen by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Funny

      So we've Godwinned a thread that talks about Jimmy Wales "evil plot" to take 3 people out to an expensive dinner

      Damn, $1300 for four people? And I thought my girlfriends were fat! Poor Jimmy!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    7. Re:Like Volkswagen by spun · · Score: 3, Informative

      So we've Godwinned a thread that talks about Jimmy Wales "evil plot" to take 3 people out to an expensive dinner
      Damn, $1300 for four people? And I thought my girlfriends were fat! Poor Jimmy! That's not food, that's booze. The food came to no more than $400, most likely. The rest was $200/bottle champagne & top shelf cocktails. Oh, and the $200 tip. $1,300 on four people is high end, but not over the top. Most major cities have at least a half dozen restaurants where you can drop that kind of cash without doing anything weird.
      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    8. Re:Like Volkswagen by omnipresentbob · · Score: 1
      Apparently you missed it when he said, "Not that I'm equating Wales with Hitler, just using an extreme case to make my point."

      What's really sad is that when we talk about the head of SCO or Microsoft, we require much more evil before we start throwing rocks than we do for Google or Wikipedia I think most people start throwing rocks at Google because the unofficial official motto of Google is "Do no evil".

      Note (not that you'll pay any attention to it): I'm not trying to take a side, one way or the other. Just pointing stuff out (and my brief analysis).

    9. Re:Like Volkswagen by an.echte.trilingue · · Score: 1

      No, in this thread the fp was also the fg.

      --
      weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
    10. Re:Like Volkswagen by Dara+Hazeghi · · Score: 0

      A new record for Godwin's Law!! (I keed, I keed)

      --
      Left 404: Why the RIGHT is WRONG
    11. Re:Like Volkswagen by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      What about Windows/Microsoft and Bill Gates?

      Though in this case due to his Philanthopic efforts, Bill Gates is liked more and more while they hate MS as much as ever.

    12. Re:Like Volkswagen by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Damn, I forgot this was /. I forgot the <joke> tag. My bad.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    13. Re:Like Volkswagen by spun · · Score: 1

      Joke? What is this thing you speak of? (looks it up) Ah, a humorous anecdote or tale comprised of a set up and a punch line! Now I comprehend this thing called hew-more.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    14. Re:Like Volkswagen by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An angel taking a leak is more newsworthy than the devil strangling a kitten.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    15. Re:Like Volkswagen by iocat · · Score: 1

      I recently posted a negative post about Vista and got 0: Trolled for my efforts. It wasn't even a trolling post. It was kind of weird.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    16. Re:Like Volkswagen by grendelb · · Score: 1

      Although Jebus Fucking Christ, have you seen the Marine killing a puppy video?

    17. Re:Like Volkswagen by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Hitler told Ferdinand Porsche he wanted a car like a certain model that the Czech company Tatra made, and Porsche obliged him from stealing the design, from the rear mounted air cooled engine down to the distinctive look of the body. Tatra sued, and Porsche was going to settle, but Hitler told him that he would take care of it, which he did by invading Czechoslovakia. Decades later VW payed Tatra millions of DM to settle the suit.

      No sense giving Corporal Schickelgruber more credit than he deserves.

      In any case, as you say a steakhouse bacchanalia does not necessarily qualify somebody to be compared to the author of the Final Solution. If you've ever worked for a non-profit, a lot what the top brass does is suck up to rich people. It's not very attractive or (once you strip the gold plating off) dignified, but that's how things roll. 1,300 is not an eye popping amount of money in the scheme of things if it results in a $100,000 donation. Now if it turned out it was really a visit to one of those cat houses where they make your credit card charge look like a vist you to an expensive restaurant ... well at least it'd be a better story, but still not up to committing genocide.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    18. Re:Like Volkswagen by ajs · · Score: 2, Informative

      $1,300 on four people is high end, but not over the top. Most major cities have at least a half dozen restaurants where you can drop that kind of cash without doing anything weird. And what's probably more interesting: they're the sorts of places that founders of non-profits tend to take prospective sources of large donations. I had a friend who worked for a medium-large non-profit, and he would not have batted an eye at this, had he been closing in on a $1m or larger donation. It's chump change compared to the potential benefit, and if it makes the person more comfortable donating, you just do it.

    19. Re:Like Volkswagen by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Not that I'm equating Wales with Hitler

      You'd better not be, otherwise a Mr Godwin would like to speak to you.
    20. Re:Like Volkswagen by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1
      Your forgot the link.

      Ex.: What do you call a fish with no eyes? A: A FSH
      Hum, maybe you were right to leave it out.
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    21. Re:Like Volkswagen by Floritard · · Score: 1

      That has got to be some kind of record for Godwin's law. I mean it's two posts deep! Call Guiness.

    22. Re:Like Volkswagen by Walter+Carver · · Score: 1

      An angel taking a leak is more newsworthy than the devil strangling a kitten. So after a point Jimmy Wales' behavior will stop being news? :-P

      Meaning he will have turned from a angel into the devil. Well, I wasn't surprised reading this today after reading an older story: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/12/07/1434221.shtml
  6. Please no by spun · · Score: 1

    Hey, internet celebrities are just as scandalous and shocking as television celebrities.

    It's like beer for your computer screen. Oh God, I can't get that image out of my mind. You bastard!
    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  7. Privilege? by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Wow, he used his *special* privileges to edit someone's Wikipedia article? Oh noes! Now maybe I'll use *my* special privileges to send around unauthorized copies of Linux!!!!

  8. An open community wins again by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This case with Jimmy shows how open initiatives win the day again. It doesn't matter if Jimmy Wales gets thrown into jail for murder, or if his character is undermined. It doesn't matter, because the only thing that matters is the positive contribution he made by founding Wikipedia and his later life or his personal details don't effect that.

    It is like science, it doesn't matter who comes up with the evidence or the theory to explain it. The only thing that matters whether it's correct or not.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:An open community wins again by Badbone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The only thing that matters whether it's correct or not." No, the only thing that matters is if the truth can be told, or smothered by a small, powerful group that wields veto power. The truth is great, but will they print it?
      --
      It can be go tiem now plees?
    2. Re:An open community wins again by qortra · · Score: 1

      and his later life or his personal details don't effect that. I understand what you're saying, and I agree in principal. However, open initiatives or not, a group like Wikipedia can easily be poisoned by rogue moderators and staff. Wikipedia has been slowly moving towards a more tightly controlled model (in the same vein as Larry Sanger's Citizendium). This model might be good for the Wikipedia and give it a much needed credibility, but it also opens it to all kinds of corruption from within. From everything I've read (comments from Wikipedia administrators, Sanger's accounts of Neupedia, interviews of Whales himself, and more), Jimmy Whales is not the kind of man that should be running the Wikipedia. He appears to be extremely corruptible and not particularly principled, exactly the opposite of Wikipedia really need: a strong reputation for incorruptibility at the highest levels.
    3. Re:An open community wins again by fistfullast33l · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is like science, it doesn't matter who comes up with the evidence or the theory to explain it. The only thing that matters whether it's correct or not.

      I guess, however I think the joule, watt, newton, tesla, ampere, degree celsius, degree fahrenheit, volt and many others would probably have something to say about it.

    4. Re:An open community wins again by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      I guess, however I think the joule, watt, newton, tesla, ampere, degree celsius, degree fahrenheit, volt and many others would probably have something to say about it.

      Amazing. What are the chances that the two most used temperature scales would be named after guys with the first name "Degree"?

      (And does that mean Kelvin was like the Madonna of his day?)

    5. Re:An open community wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone knows that Larry Sanger, not Wales, is responsible for the creation of Wikipedia.

    6. Re:An open community wins again by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, they were named after people, but so what? even if it wasn't named after them the contribution would still have been just as great.
      That was the posters point.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:An open community wins again by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Irrelevant. Most of those units were designated posthumously, in order to honor those individuals. The utility of a unit of measurement is not dependent upon the particular appellation. "A rose by any other name ..." and all that.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    8. Re:An open community wins again by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter, because the only thing that matters is the positive contribution he made by founding Wikipedia and his later life or his personal details don't effect that.
      It DOES matter because the wikimedia foundation (who own/run wikipedia along with various other related sites) has not at this time made the transition from a single person dominated organisation (iirc there is a board of directors but it is a 5 member board two of which are jimbo and his cronies 2 of which are elected effectively giving wales absoloute power over the project) to an organisation with a broader power base.

      Yes you can take a copy the main content easilly enough but you can't get the images so easilly (and if you could they would take up a huge ammount of storage) and you will either have to accept changes from wikipedia without much oversight or fork (and if you fork your fork will go stale).

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    9. Re:An open community wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It doesn't matter if Jimmy Wales gets thrown into jail for murder
      Tell that to me about reiserfs .....

    10. Re:An open community wins again by Timmmm · · Score: 1

      > degree celsius, degree fahrenheit and many others would probably have something to say about it.

      I shall call my first born 'Degree'. :-)

    11. Re:An open community wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I shall call my first born 'Degree'. :-)

      Call him 'First Degree', then his son can be 'Second Degree' (or 'First Degree the Second')!

      How about 'Slippery Jim Degree' ? :)

  9. How is it different... by ShatteredArm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    from other nonprofits? Some CEOs of nonprofits get paid hundreds of thousands per year of donated money, and this guy can't treat three friends to a $325 meal? Not saying I approve of his conduct, but this isn't really that damning.

    Now the real problem is that he, the creator of wikipedia, hasn't been able to convince some private company to give him lots of money. You think that'd do pretty well on a resume.

    1. Re:How is it different... by Peeet · · Score: 1

      If anyone would actually RTFA (yeah I know, must be new here) it says that he was accused of submitting a receipt for reimbursement of the $1,300 and that it was denied. I would say that doesn't count as using the funds without permission.

    2. Re:How is it different... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      How is it different from other nonprofits? Some CEOs of nonprofits get paid hundreds of thousands per year of donated money, and this guy can't treat three friends to a $325 meal?

      Because the CEO's get paid a salary, and then use that salary to pay personal expenses. Wales seems to have billed the foundation directly for personal expenses - a significant difference. Worse yet, when the IRS gets wind of such shenanigans... They check the tax returns of the organization pretty closely.
       
       

      Now the real problem is that he, the creator of wikipedia, hasn't been able to convince some private company to give him lots of money. You think that'd do pretty well on a resume.

      Rarely does a private company hire a former king to be a peon. Worse yet, when you look at the kinds of companies that would pay real money and compare them to Jimmy's resume... His resume starts looking pretty thin. (Not to mention his reputation proceeds him.)
    3. Re:How is it different... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $325 per head for a meal is outrageous. A $50 per head meal ought to be enough for anyone.

    4. Re:How is it different... by dustmite · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree, and not only that, but expensing the dinner saves taxes, meaning it saves the foundation money, leaving them with more money to spend on servers and bandwidth and other goodies that benefit us. There isn't a company in existence that doesn't throw the odd personal dinner onto the company books as an expense - so what. Nothing wrong with the odd dinner, I mean should the guy live like a pauper? Now if he was buying Lamborghinis while the whole Wikipedia site was collapsing that would be another thing, but this is just incredibly silly. And as for him editing articles, well in case nobody's heard, *anyone* can edit articles, and I guess that includes the founder, let him edit on his own site, if he really made a mess of articles it would be reverted and uncovered.

    5. Re:How is it different... by JuzzFunky · · Score: 1

      The meal wasn't even paid for!
      From TFA: "She pointed out that the foundation rejected the steakhouse expense.";

      It appears Wool has made unsupported accusations before:
      http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2007/Candidates/Danny/questions#Whistleblower_policy

      --
      Unexpect the expected!
    6. Re:How is it different... by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Some CEOs of nonprofits get paid hundreds of thousands per year of donated money

      Perhaps this is the problem.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  10. That's something by techpawn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I acted completely consistently with Wikipedia policy. I did the right thing: I passed along my work to date for other editors to deal with
    So basically, he's saying that yes you can write anything and it's up to the editors to catch it and make sure you're true. If my boss says "write us a shinny burb on Wikipedia!" I can say I was going with their policy because the editors should of caught my writing?
    --
    Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    1. Re:That's something by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      Actually he passed on the information he wanted to change to other editors so that they could change the article without a conflict of interest.

      I knew it was just a matter of time till slashdot criticize him for this but on this issue hes done nothing wrong.
      The meal on the otherhand is questionable

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    2. Re:That's something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "write us a shinny burb on Wikipedia!" I can say I was going with their policy because the editors should of caught my writing?

      Shiny. Blurb. Have.

      -- Grammar Nazi in the tradition of Wiki and Slashdot. :-P
    3. Re:That's something by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, he's saying (a) he didn't "write anything" on the page once the relationship began, and (b) far from being up to other "editors to catch it", he asked other editors to take over his work on the page.

      He stopped (or claims to, you could check the page history yourself) editing the page. I'm not sure *how* you managed to interpret the summary (particularly the Wales' quote - "I passed along my work to date for other editors to deal with, and I recused myself from the case") so badly - I appreciate that, this being Slashdot, you didn't do anything so radical as actually, you know, RTFA.

      Source

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
    4. Re:That's something by techpawn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I appreciate that, this being Slashdot, you didn't do anything so radical as actually, you know, RTFA.
      Thank you, I try my best to give the Slashdot community my whole half-assed, misspelled, and blatantly wrong opinions based solely off RTFS.
      As soon as I can figure out how to give every post a meme spin or can analogy I'm in!
      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    5. Re:That's something by techpawn · · Score: 1

      Actually he passed on the information he wanted to change to other editors so that they could change the article without a conflict of interest.
      He still passed it on for change even if he knew it was wrong or misleading or about someone he knows personally? Basically saying it's up to the editors to catch it before. I'm just asking, if it's good enough for Jimbo to just say "I'm going to make this change and X person/company/subject even if it is not 100% accurate" even though he went through the other editors to do it, why not us?
      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    6. Re:That's something by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1
      GRAMMAR NAZI MODE: ENGAGED

      the editors should of caught my writing

      It's "should have". "Should of" is gibberish.

    7. Re:That's something by techpawn · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Gratz! Yur teh 3rd grammer Nazi! You getz teh gold redudant star of typos the greek godz of speeling eroors

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    8. Re:That's something by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I dunno about you, but I certainly wouldn't use wikipedia as a source for this particular argument if I wanted to be taken seriously.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    9. Re:That's something by makomk · · Score: 1

      He still passed it on for change even if he knew it was wrong or misleading or about someone he knows personally? Basically saying it's up to the editors to catch it before. I'm just asking, if it's good enough for Jimbo to just say "I'm going to make this change and X person/company/subject even if it is not 100% accurate" even though he went through the other editors to do it, why not us? There is certainly an unfortunate tendency to take Jimmy Wales' word as gospel on Wikipedia, and he knows it...
  11. Not a peach by DrWho520 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Besides being a (former) talking head on Fox's Red Eye, Rachel Mardsen has been accused of harassment in the past. You might also note from the same article that she has falsely accused a man of sexual harassment. Ms. Mardsen target in the sexual harassment case claimed she sent him sexual e-mails and photographs.

    --
    The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    1. Re:Not a peach by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Besides being a (former) talking head on Fox's Red Eye, Rachel Mardsen has been accused of harassment in the past. You might also note from the same article that she has falsely accused a man of sexual harassment. Ms. Mardsen target in the sexual harassment case claimed she sent him sexual e-mails and photographs.

      The moral of this story appears to be don't schtupp a bunny boiler.

      Personally I don't think he has done anything wrong except not take heed of what the woman's previous history. The separate expenses issue sounds more worrisome.

    2. Re:Not a peach by cperciva · · Score: 5, Informative

      Rachel Mardsen has been accused of harassment in the past.

      Not just accused, but found guilty of harassment.

    3. Re:Not a peach by dedazo · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      The entire conversation about tweaking her WP entry was published elsewhere, along with the more puerile parts. Wales did not bother to refute them.

      AFAIK she is not accusing Wales of anything, so your reference is irrelevant. The fact that she works for Fox is irrelevant. The fact that you don't consider her a "peach" is irrelevant.

      In the past three days a veritable army of astroturfers and apologists have been furiously committing character assasination on this woman all over the place. The same thing happens whenever some not-so-rosy news is published about Wikipedia. This is not news, you all take WP too seriously, the woman is evil, etc.

      When WP claims (or rather, Jimmy Wales claims) that WP is the most important thing on the internet then we are all supposed to take WP very seriously. When the shit hits the fan (remember Essjay?) then we're all being too critical. You can't have your cake and eat it.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    4. Re:Not a peach by DrWho520 · · Score: 1

      I do not think this is irrelevant at all. I think it puts a different perspective on the story.

      I never said she was accusing Jimmy Wales of harassment. If she was sending un-elicited explicit messages and photos to the man she accused of sexual harassment, that would be considered harassment. She was already accused and found guilty of harassing another man. Now if Jimmy Wales was not a public figure, posting what she did on public forum could be described as harassment. She just chose to do it on a blog instead of personal e-mail this time. That is three instances of harassment.

      Jimmy Wales established this organization that represents collaboration and preservation of information to a great many people. Rachel Mardsen was employed by this organization that represents the dissemination of disinformation to a great many people. Many people would see these organizations as the antithesis of each other (many of them /. readers) yet somehow they found their way into each others bed. The both sound like real winners.

      As for not being a peach, if one has experienced this kind of woman, than one might not understand. Saying she is not a peach is being kind. But, yeah, that's my own opinion. I thought I might be able to put my opinion in to the conversation. I joined

      Some people are not apologists, astroturfers or worshipers at the altar of the Great Wiki. Some just want to point out more information to add to the discussion. Some think if Ms. Mardsen is going to add Mr. Wales' laundry to the public record, why not talk about Ms. Wales' laundry that is already in the public record. That is part of the story.

      --
      The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    5. Re:Not a peach by Robber+Baron · · Score: 1

      Rachel Mardsen has been accused of harassment in the past.

      Not just accused, but found guilty of harassment. Which naturally raises the question of why the founder of an online encyclopaedia wouldn't have the good sense to use the resources at his disposal to check out her bonafides before getting personally involved.

      --

      You're using her as bait, Master!

    6. Re:Not a peach by dedazo · · Score: 1

      I think it puts a different perspective on the story.

      To follow your logic, we should all ignore Rob Weir's opinions on ODF/OOXML, since he's a full-time salaried employee of IBM.

      Double standards are great, eh?

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    7. Re:Not a peach by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Which naturally raises the question of why the founder of an online encyclopaedia wouldn't have the good sense to use the resources at his disposal to check out her bonafides before getting personally involved.

      Because...

      a) He is male
      b) She is an attractive female
      c) She let him see her naked and have sex with her

      Speaking as a man, never underestimate a man's ability to overlook the obvious when there's potential nudity involved.

      (I think Matt Groening said it best in his "Life in Hell" comic script: "Love is doomed to fail because men are stupid and women are crazy.")

    8. Re:Not a peach by blumpy · · Score: 1

      Holy crap that's the same Rachel Marsden? That named sounded familiar but I couldn't put my finger on it.... I totally remember that story, it was all over the news around here.

    9. Re:Not a peach by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > don't schtupp a bunny boiler

      Five word summaries of hit movies, eh?

      Let's try some others:

      Star Wars I: The Force is just miticlorians.
      The Crying Game: The chick is a dude. ... eh, i'm out of steam ...

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    10. Re:Not a peach by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Her bio reads like it should have "Psycho Bitch" as the header instead of her name. Seriously, if Jimmy Whales dated this broad, I'd say it was punishment enough.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    11. Re:Not a peach by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      Her bio reads like it should have "Psycho Bitch" as the header instead of her name.
      Done!
      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
    12. Re:Not a peach by gadders · · Score: 1

      Plus mental birds are dynamite in the sack. FACTO. I bet she shagged the arse off him.

  12. Hmmm.... by Otter · · Score: 3, Funny

    1) In the sidebar on that page is "S.F. nonprofit fires CFO over missing $3.6 million", so a $1300 dinner tab and an angry ex-mistress seem relatively tame by comparison.

    2) Even by blog standards, "All's Wool that Ends Wool" is a pretty awful name.

    1. Re:Hmmm.... by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      2) Even by blog standards

      Are you referring to Ralph Blog, god of the hangover, who you pray to at the porcelain alter?

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  13. Wikipedia... by Moryath · · Score: 1

    is no less corrupt than the boss at its head.

    After all the other scandals, all the numerous people abused by stuck-up/corrupt twits high on their "admin" powers, all the constant bias and nonsense in the articles, it took this long for Jimbo's embezzlement to come out? Anyone with a clue figured out he was doing this years ago.

    Now you know where your "donations" to the "wikimedia foundation" went... while you were suckered into giving him free labor.

    1. Re:Wikipedia... by fictionpuss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now you know where your "donations" to the "wikimedia foundation" went... while you were suckered into giving him free labor. Over the last year Wikipedia has, quite easily, saved me (or more specifically, my clients) hundreds if not thousands of dollars in time because it is a valuable reference resource for science and technology.

      I couldn't care less if they go all high-school on each others personal accounts, or whether political biases are enforced through some "admin" abuses - those pages are not those which I find useful.

    2. Re:Wikipedia... by mcsqueak · · Score: 1

      Now you know where your "donations" to the "wikimedia foundation" went... while you were suckered into giving him free labor.

      As much as I love Wikipedia and use it daily, this is exactly why I have never given them my money. I've occasionally contributed to an article, but I won't give them my hard-earned cash.

    3. Re:Wikipedia... by rucs_hack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All this proves, even if true, is that the Wikipedians are human, just like the rest of us, and like to swing the lead or get something nice on expenses when possible.

      Shock Story! Wikipedia moderators also human!

      News at 11...

    4. Re:Wikipedia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, well, last year Wikipedia has, quite easily, saved me (or more specifically, my clients) millions if not trillions of dollars in time because it is a valuable reference resource for pocket monsters and light saber fighting. All Hail Wikipedia!

    5. Re:Wikipedia... by meepzorb · · Score: 1
      Now you know where your "donations" to the "wikimedia foundation" went... while you were suckered into giving him free labor.

      John Galt would be proud.

      (350 page monologue to follow...)

    6. Re:Wikipedia... by Translation+Error · · Score: 1

      It may not cause you problems now, but you should be concerned if it's shown that Wikipedia is open to corruption and private agendas. Today they may be misusing their power to slander each other and take money from the foundation, but maybe future members of the 'inner circle' will start molding the site to show bias toward their religious beliefs such as creationism or pro-life stances--or perhaps they'll make some big corporations look better in return for 'considerations'.

      --
      When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    7. Re:Wikipedia... by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      I've probably saved hundreds of dollars just by sitting and reading Wikipedia, instead of going out to restaurants and the cinema!

      Funny, that reminds me of an old Groucho quote:

      "I find television very educational. Every time someone switches it on I go into another room and read a good book."

      http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
  14. Re:Hitler by KevinKnSC · · Score: 5, Funny

    [Citation Needed]

  15. More to the story? by conlaw · · Score: 1

    According to a front page story in today's Tampa Bay Times [http://www.tampabay.com/tbt/], on Saturday, Jimmy posted a notice in his Wikipedia entry that the romance with Rachel Marsden was over -- this was allegedly done prior to his sending her an IM informing her of the split. She is said to have retaliated by offering a shirt and jacket of Jimmy's for sale on eBay.

    1. Re:More to the story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, Chris Benoit's wife's death was reported on Wikipedia before it was reported to police. A "lucky" guess.

    2. Re:More to the story? by Higaran · · Score: 1

      So she tried to sell his stuff on ebay, ha ha that's nothing, now there would be more of a story if it said she used it to make a voodoo doll, or in some kind of ritual sacrifice so that he would suffer horrible pain. Then there would be more to the story, selling his stuff is kids stuff, almost as just like throwing it out the window or something.

    3. Re:More to the story? by vux984 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That Marsden chick is nuts. I went to high school with her, and I was attending university at SFU at the same time her 'sex harrassment scandal' and got to see that unfold up close. We weren't in the same circle, but . "Nuts" doesn't really begin to cover it. Vindictive, manipulative, self-centered, detached from reality, borderline sociopathic ... I could go on.

      I hadn't realized she'd become something of a minor celebrity since then. I'd had her pegged as ending up a bitter cat-person writing angry columns. I guess she managed to make a career out of that. Wikipedia mentions she ended up with Bill O'Reilly on Fox for a number of years... Figures. Crazy attracts crazy. And even THEY fired her.

      If Jimmy Wales was keeping company with her... well... no wonder the breakup was bizarre enough to become newsworthy. As to charges of corruption... well.. you can learn something about a person by the company they keep. My assessment of Wales credibility is pretty low right now.

    4. Re:More to the story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of people involved in wikipedia are nuts.

      Jimbo is like a 40 year old man, he should know better than to stick his dick into some crazy woman with a history of stalking.

    5. Re:More to the story? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And, ummm, why do we care? Are we all suddenly soap opera fans because it involves a 'geek'?

    6. Re:More to the story? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      hat Marsden chick is nuts Hey, Rachel Marsden is my new girlfriend, you insensitive clod! *reads rest of vux984's post*

      Uhhhhh...OMG! *Google's Rachel Marsden* Uhhhhh....Hey, Rachel! It's over between us!

    7. Re:More to the story? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Smart people can be manipulated just like anybody else.
      Based on your description she has probably mastered those skills.

      SO don't let one incident effect your opinion too much.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:More to the story? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      You should read up on her. She's a bloody maniac. She nearly completely fucked over a University of British Columbia faculty member by inventing a story of sexual harassment. She's a vile wicked creature, probably quite mentally ill, who pretty tries to destroy every man she goes out with, or wants to go out with.

      Naturally, she's been a Fox commentator.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  16. Wait, THIS is corruption? by pcgamez · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good god, if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail. When I read the headline I thought he had been caught embezzling a minimum of tens of thousands of dollars. I don't think that there are too many people who are innocent of having their company pay for an expense that was not 100% appropriate.

    Get real, this is small time stuff that is not even worth making it to the news much less /.

    1. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by dedazo · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Wrongdoing is never relative. Unless of course you are predisposed to consider it that way. I doubt anyone else would get a pass in this case.

      Funny Slashdot didn't mention the "I want to fuck your brains out" part of the Mardsen thing. Anyone else and it would have been regurgitated front and center.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    2. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by qortra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail. Then we're agreed; 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail.

      As a side note, I really don't care that much about the money. For me, any notion of impropriety in the Wikipedia with regard to rogue editing of personally relevant entries, especially among administrators, should not be tolerated. I also don't really care whether he goes to jail. I simply don't want to see this kind of behavior among any active administrators: play within the rules, or lose privileges.
    3. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by trongey · · Score: 1

      Good god, if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail... Yes, this is corruption. It's not multimillion dollar embezzlement. It's not using position to manipulate the legal system. It's just the every day run-of-the-mill kind of corruption.

      Yes, just about everybody in management should be in jail. In fact, just about everybody should be in jail for something. Some people get caught and get it trouble, most don't. Wales' mistake was that he did stuff that was too little to be worth the crap he has to take now.
      --
      You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
    4. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by Digi-John · · Score: 1

      ... Change? You got any... chaaaaaaange? Chaaaaaaaaaaange.

      --
      Klingon programs don't timeshare, they battle for supremacy.
    5. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      Good god, if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail.

      Hello ... this is slashdot! You should change that number to 100%.

      Haven't you ever seen Office Space ? ALL middle and upper management are just like Bill Lumbergh, and if they're not we will not rest one second until we can find a way to make it somehow so.

      Sheesh!

    6. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Those are firing offenses at Microsoft. Plus they mark you down as "do not hire again".

    7. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Good god, if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail.

      Well, maybe 95% of people in management SHOULD be in jail, but you don't have to break the law to be corrupt. Committing adultery with your competitor's wife isn't illegal in Illinois, but it's sure as hell corrupt and immoral.

      Not everything immoral is illegal, and not everything illegal is immoral. Wales' sin wasn't breaking the law, but breaking a policy he, himself, wrote. What he did wasn't illegal, its immorality is questionable, but it most certainly is unethical by the very definition of the word.

      BTW, Why is it legal to have sex with my congressman's wife but illegal to pay her for it?

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    8. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by provigilman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Same with AT&T. We have a department called "Asset Protection" that puts out a very Cops-like newsletter every quarter. Everytime there's some story about some guy with like 29 working here that gets fired after using his corporate card to pay for personal stuff. These guys lose their pensions, their benefits, everything... They take it very seriously.

      --
      "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
    9. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good god, if this is corruption then about 95% of the people in middle and upper management should be in jail. You say that like it's a bad thing....
    10. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by maxume · · Score: 1

      I can see where something like Wikipedia would attract people with a particular combination of idealism and naivete who gave money and are now disappointed and complaining loudly. There's no disappointment like that first one.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by Ioldanach · · Score: 1

      BTW, Why is it legal to have sex with my congressman's wife but illegal to pay her for it?
      Because then you need to register as a lobbyist.
    12. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by punissuer · · Score: 1

      fired after using his corporate card to pay for personal stuff. These guys lose their pensions Call me uncharitable, but I can't help but wonder if that's actually the reason for the firing.
    13. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by provigilman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you know, as opposed to the guy spending $3K in fuel for his personal vehicle over a long period of time that comes right out of the department budget. Noo....couldn't have anything to do with that. :D

      --
      "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
    14. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by punissuer · · Score: 1

      Are you saying some guy was fired for spending $3000 over 29 years to gas up a car he drove to work every day? And for this he lost his pension, which was probably worth far more than $3000? Don't you see that creates a huge conflict of interest for the company?

    15. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      In fairness he disclosed his POV and passed on the information he wanted to include, to others so that they could do it without his POV

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    16. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by L.Bob.Rife · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously saying that you have a problem with this guy because he edited a WIKIPEDIA article and made his girlfriend look better? And that its some sort of major corruption thing? Jesus dude. Its not like he is covering up genocide or something. He is glossing over some embarrassing details about his girlfriend. I applaud him for doing that. People who think this qualifies as corruption or abuse of power obviously aren't familiar with how the world works, and I would bet they don't have girlfriends.

    17. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and I would bet they don't have girlfriends. I take it that you obtain your girlfriends by breaking rules and improving their public image via online encyclopedias. Not all of us got our girlfriends that way.
    18. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by raehl · · Score: 1

      Don't you see that creates a huge conflict of interest for the company?

      No?

      The company's interest is to remain profitable. This interest is helped by firing people who use company funds on personal expenses. Not having to pay the pension is a bonus.

      It's not like they wouldn't have fired him if he got to keep the pension.

    19. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by punissuer · · Score: 1

      It's not like they wouldn't have fired him if he got to keep the pension. But is it like they went looking for dirt on him because he was about to claim his pension? IMHO, revocation of this guy's pension benefits was inappropriate and should be illegal. If he misappropriated any funds, the company should have to sue him. Then he could pay any judgment against him out of his pension.
    20. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by AxelBoldt · · Score: 1

      I can see where something like Wikipedia would attract people with a particular combination of idealism and naivete who gave money and are now disappointed and complaining loudly.

      Disappointed about what? That the foundation declined to reimburse the founder (who doesn't draw a salary) when he submitted a $1,300 dinner bill as an expense?

    21. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by maxume · · Score: 1

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=476712&cid=22653784

      Disappointed that reality didn't live up to their expectations. I assume you are getting at the fact that Wales and the foundation are different things and shouldn't be confused, but that's just the kind of thing a combination of naivete and idealism is going to lead a person to do. I would also expect such a person to view the world in relatively black and white terms, and to have trouble believing that a person could do both very good things and also more questionable things.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    22. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by provigilman · · Score: 1
      I said he worked at the company for 29 years, he wasn't stealing from them for 29 years. He wouldn't have been in a position to for probably at least 10 of those years, until he moved up sufficiently that he got a company car and a company credit card.

      And why can't they take his pension? What is a pension really, other than a reward from the company for years of good service to them. It's not like it was his 401k that he pays into. He lied to the company and stole from them, to the tune of at least $3000. Why should he be rewarded for that? That's like saying he should get unemployment from them as well.

      --
      "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
    23. Re:Wait, THIS is corruption? by punissuer · · Score: 1

      I said he worked at the company for 29 years, he wasn't stealing from them for 29 years. You didn't say how long the stealing took, just "a long period of time". You left me to infer how long you meant, and I did ask you for confirmation of details two comments ago.

      What is a pension really, other than a reward from the company for years of good service to them. No. It's something you work for. For years. Decades. It's part of your pay. It's a promise that the company uses to recruit new employees and retain experienced ones. It's something the employee counts on having when he can no longer work, when he will likely not have opportunity to earn another pension. It's something worth far more than $13.16 a month (to use your numbers, $3000 / ( (29-10) * 12 ) ). So the guy gasses his car up once a month, and for that he loses his pension? I really don't care that it's not a 401k. The disparity between the punishment and the accusation just does not pass the smell test.

      He lied to the company and stole from them, to the tune of at least $3000. Why should he be rewarded for that? So getting fired, sued, forced to pay restitution and maybe a fine as well would be the same as getting rewarded?

      That's like saying he should get unemployment from them as well. No it isn't. But even at that, the guy had to help pay for the unemployment insurance, didn't he?

      My point is that allowing the company to revoke pensions gives them an incentive to put anyone nearing retirement under a magnifying glass in hopes of being able to save the cost of the retiree's pension. So the company can leave infractions unpunished/unresolved for years, and then suddenly impose a penalty that may be far out of proportion to the infractions, and do this without judicial oversight. It's supposed to be in the company's interest to pay you market value for your work, but the possibility of revoking pensions makes it to be in their interest to fail to pay you everything they promised, which is the conflict of interest I'm talking about.
  17. This is not news! by positiveexperience · · Score: 3, Funny

    Excuse me, but this is not news.

    1. Re:This is not news! by sm62704 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      You're absolutely right. Not a single word about Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, steroids, or crack! How can it possibly be "news"?

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  18. Abusing Power by AZScotsman · · Score: 0, Troll

    Gee - what good is having power if you can't abuse it every once in a while?

  19. $13,000 for steak? by OglinTatas · · Score: 1

    is that for the whole Kobe beef cow?

    Wikipedia link! bonus!

  20. Another Conservative Down by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0, Troll

    KJimmy Wales is a "Conservative", the extreme kind called a "libertarian" (though there are plenty of libertarians who aren't "Conservative", Wales is the kind of libertarian who call themselves "Objectivists" ). Objectivists subscribe to the ideology put together by Ayn Rand that selfishness is the primary, the only virtue, the only possible way to see the world as it truly is.

    Objectivism makes for some great fictional novels, like the allegories Rand wrote to tell people about the Objectivism she made up. But selfishness in that extreme is a pretty good excuse for corruption. Ask a Conservative about it.

    BTW, doesn't Fark have an entire category of corruption and other stupidity called "Florida"? Seems inevitable that the embezzlement would take place there.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Another Conservative Down by radtea · · Score: 1

      Rand never identified herself as a "Conservative" and routinely excoriated the Conservative establishment in the U.S. In the very Wikipedia article you link to, Jimmy says he is guided by the principles of "freedom, liberty, basically individual rights..." Hardly "Conservative" principles, which are all about security, surveillance and greater police powers.

      You are wrong about the quality of Rand's fiction, as well.

      As well as being factually wrong on these counts, your comment is logically fallacious:

      Some Conservatives are corrupt.
      Jimmy Wales is a Conservative.
      Therefore, Jimmy Wales is corrupt.

      Can you say undistributed middle? Likewise your remarks regarding Florida.

      It is fairly amusing seeing someone deploy such sleazy innuendo while accusing Jimmy of being sleazy. The meat of the story is: pyscho ex g/f is spreading dirt, aided and abetted by former employee whose accusations are not backed up by any of the people who have their hands on all the facts. It's a pretty thin basis for trying to smear a guy who in my few personal dealings with him has always been decent and reasonable, and who did an excellent job of running MDOP, where I was an active critic of "Objectivist" philosophy for several years.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    2. Re:Another Conservative Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have some really serious issues my man.

    3. Re:Another Conservative Down by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Yeah, among them fake, wasteful, dishonest "Conservatives". And Anonymous Cowards who just blurt trite insults without backing them up.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    4. Re:Another Conservative Down by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Ho hum, yet another Objectivism dabbler posing as a logician. Throwing your fallacy that I didn't make as a strawman doesn't prove anything except that you'd take Rand's books too seriously, like some kind of bible or something.

      Jimmy Wales is spending foundation money on expenses like intimate $325:person steak dinners that aren't really justifiable in a nonprofit like Wikipedia's. That's corruption. The fact that so many other "Conservatives" are corrupt in exactly the same way, spending tax-exempt money (or tax money itself) without benefiting the public, makes him a typical "Conservative". That's why it's remarkable.

      But of course your few personal dealings with him, decent and reasonable, are proof that he's not ripping off his foundation.

      The bonus here is that you showed how objectivists and libertarians like you are as qualified to make "logical" arguments like that as "Conservatives" are to talk about personal responsibility and fiscal conservatism (the core Conservative principles that libertarians, and especially Objectivists, claim makes them "morally superior"), or libertarians are to run government-protected tax-free corporations.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    5. Re:Another Conservative Down by jayveekay · · Score: 1

      >Hardly "Conservative" principles, which are all about security, surveillance and greater police powers. Security, surveillance, and greater police powers would be fascist, not conservative. Conservatism is generally associated with small government and individual liberty.

  21. Wait a second? by downix · · Score: 3, Funny

    You can have someone else edit you?

    *calls up the wife*

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
  22. er, I mean $1,300 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my bad. I added another bouncy zero in my excitement. Back to ogling now...

  23. I hope you verified the data with original sources by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wikipedia isn't immune from mistakes. Then again, neither is Encyclopedia Brittancia.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  24. Dates and dinners are not the issue by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 5, Informative
    Clinton didn't get into trouble for getting a blowjob and vandalising a cigar. No he got into trouble for lying. Jimmy Wales is getting scorched because he made a bunch of rules and flagrantly ignores them when it suits his needs. The real bad thing here is that it undermines the whole supposed democratic nature of wikipedia. Jimmy Wales might have started Wikipedia (arguably by editing Sanger out of the Wikipedia history himself), but Wikipedia is now bigger than Jimmy.

    If you read the post above properly, you'll see that it does not say Wales == Hitler or use a Hitler reference to slur Wales, it just uses Hitler as an extreme case to say don't equate the product with the person.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by garett_spencley · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Either way you Godwinned the thread. It's the most tried and proven way to inflate a discussion into a big messy heap of a flame war. You should know better.

      You made your bed. Now sleep in it.

    2. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wet your bed. Now sleep in it. I have corrected your spelling error.
    3. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by lpangelrob · · Score: 1

      I think he was following WP:IAR - "Ignore All Rules".

    4. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lrn2godwin, it only counts when comparing X to hitler in order to say "X is soooo bad" It does not count when discussing history, Wagner, or Volkswagons, no matter how hysterical these topics make you.

    5. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by xstonedogx · · Score: 1

      It's the most tried and proven way to inflate a discussion into a big messy heap of a flame war.


      That was not Godwin's point at all. Personal attacks seem a much easier way to turn a discussion into a flame war.

    6. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by fuzzlost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jimmy Wales is no different than anyone else who (un)knowingly puts up false information on Wikipedia. But this is proof that the editorship of Wikipedia is solid and independent enough to correct problems in their data, even if put there by a high-profile person.

    7. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, Godwin's point was that as a discussion grows larger the possibility of Nazi or Hitler being mentioned increases.

      My post was not intended as flaimbait or a personal attack. I was pointed out an observation and attempted to do it with a humorous tone but obviously it failed.

      When Godwin's law is invoked it generally provokes a strong discussion about the fact that it was invoked and whether or not it was necessary. Did I feed it: absolutely. Shame on me. Was it inevitable anyway ? I feel that yes, it was.

    8. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clinton didn't get into trouble for getting a blowjob and vandalising a cigar. No he got into trouble for lying.

      Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaa...... (doubles over laughing) (regains breathe)

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHahahahahhaha bZhAZhahahahahhahahahahhaha....

      Seriously though, all reasonably honest people know that... ha haha hah ahahahhahahah
      hahHahha
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

      You're a funny, funny man.

    9. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "Clinton didn't get into trouble for getting a blowjob and vandalising a cigar. No he got into trouble for lying."

      Are you talking about getting in trouble with the legal system or about getting into trouble with the media? I only ask because I wish the real world was as fair as you're describing.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by exultavit · · Score: 1

      But this is proof that the editorship of Wikipedia is solid and independent enough to correct problems in their data, even if put there by a high-profile person. Well, of course Wikipedia has no ethical problems. Any ethical problems that have been reported are quickly fixed.

      But perhaps you ask: what about the problems that just haven't been reported yet? Well, there aren't any, silly! I mean, of course there were problems in the past, but they've all been taken care of now. Everything is perfectly totally 100% okay.
    11. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by filobloomz · · Score: 1

      Jimmy doesn't like this! Jimmy's gettin' mad!

    12. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by fuzzlost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But this is proof that the editorship of Wikipedia is solid and independent enough to correct problems in their data, even if put there by a high-profile person.
      Well, of course Wikipedia has no ethical problems. Any ethical problems that have been reported are quickly fixed. But perhaps you ask: what about the problems that just haven't been reported yet? Well, there aren't any, silly! I mean, of course there were problems in the past, but they've all been taken care of now. Everything is perfectly totally 100% okay. It will never be 100% okay, perfect, because it is a self-correcting system with a lot of morons. Something will always be wrong with it, but hopefully individual wrongs always get corrected (more just show up)
    13. Re:Dates and dinners are not the issue by Boronx · · Score: 1

      Clinton got into trouble because he stood in the way of the same psychos that have been running this country into the ditch for the last seven years (and throwing away a good chunk of our wealth). If the press and DC really had a problem with lying, Bush would have been shitcanned years ago.

  25. The real Q: How dumb is his girlfriend? by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 1

    Maybe the summary is bad or something, but I'm pretty sure *I* could change a Wikipedia entry on me without screwing the guy who invented it... did Jimbo's "abuse of power" there amount to anything that anyone with a web browser couldn't replicate?

    1. Re:The real Q: How dumb is his girlfriend? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      It is possible she doesn't know how to edit Wikipedia articles herself. In any case you're not supposed to edit articles about yourself generally. I'm sure she assumed since he is Jimmy Wales, any editing he did would not be questioned.

  26. Um, it's obviously different by keineobachtubersie · · Score: 1

    Ok, here's the answer

    "Some CEOs of nonprofits get paid hundreds of thousands per year of donated money,"

    That's their salary. No one has a problem with CEO's paying for their friend's dinner out of their own pocket.

    "and this guy can't treat three friends to a $325 meal?"

    That IS NOT a salary, and as such, NOT out of Jimmy Wales' pocket.

    I have no idea why you're finding it so hard to see such an obvious difference.

    1. Re:Um, it's obviously different by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      Who pays the CEO's salary?

      Who pays for the $325 meal?

      Oh yeah, the same people. The CEO's dinner that comes out of his pocket actually came out of the nonprofit's pocket. If Jimmy Wales is actually receiving a salary from Wikimedia that is comparable to your big nonprofit salary, and he's still expensing crap like that, you'd have a point. But either way, both of them are spending money for personal stuff that was probably not donated with that intent.

    2. Re:Um, it's obviously different by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the source of the money is the same in either case (the non-profit), but the two are completely different. A salary is agreed on compensation. In exchange for their work, the CEO (and every other employee) has agreed to take $X and possibly other benefits like an expense account.

      In this case, Wales is taking more salary than has been agreed to. If he Is not being paid enough to afford expensive meals then he needs to renegotiate his salary or find another job. What he should not do is steal money for things he feels he deserves.

    3. Re:Um, it's obviously different by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      So if you pay me to repair your car it's perfectly fine if I break into your house and steal some of your money?

    4. Re:Um, it's obviously different by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      Since you are so obviously dense, they didn't approve his expense. Their paying his expense is also agreed-upon.

      A more apt analogy would be this:

      You and your neighbors decide to start carpooling, and on the way home stop for lunch. You submit an expense report for it, hoping that it somehow gets approved.

      I *never* said what he didn't isn't wrong, nor did I say it's not different. But you can't argue that many of those nonprofit CEOs are way overpayed, and are doing just as much harm to their causes as Wales. A $1300 dinner is small in comparison to the loot that some of those guys take home, and I'm sure they (attempt to) expense some ridiculous stuff as well. Wales just happens to be involved with a nonprofit that has is enjoying the public spotlight.

    5. Re:Um, it's obviously different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah...but was it a Green Lantern comic? 'Cause then it would be okay!

    6. Re:Um, it's obviously different by xstonedogx · · Score: 1

      Can I come work for you?

    7. Re:Um, it's obviously different by tkinnun0 · · Score: 1

      I didn't realize it at the time, but of course the people in the "donate to wikipedia"-graphic signified the friends of Jimbo your donation would buy dinner. I really ought to have seen that before I didn't donate to make an informed decision.

    8. Re:Um, it's obviously different by eli+pabst · · Score: 1

      That IS NOT a salary, and as such, NOT out of Jimmy Wales' pocket.
      The guy donated his entire stake in Wikipedia with an estimated worth of 3 billion dollars to the Foundation at not cost. The least they could do is buy the freaking guy dinner. He still serves as a member of the board and does a variety of talks and fund raising events for wikipedia and doesn't collect a dime in salary for it.
  27. But what if you did nothing wrong? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Everyone is a hypocrite at some point in their life. The question isn't how do we deal with hypocrites, its how the hypocrites handle being caught in their hypocrisy, which is really telling of what kind of person they really are. Was it a momentary lapse in judgment or a deeper character flaw.

    The difference is "Oh Crap, Sorry. How do I fix this?" verses "I did nothing wrong" Off-topic a bit but:

    What if you really did nothing wrong and the person calling you a hypocrite is simply mistaken?

    Example: Police officer races his personal car down a nearly-empty street at 3AM. You call him a hypocrite. Explanation: He is taking his kid to the emergency room and didn't want to wait for an ambulance, i.e. he's doing what any reasonable parent would do in the circumstance.

    What if the definition of "wrong" in the situation is unclear? Saying "I did nothing wrong" may simply be stating your legitimate point of view.

    Example: Police officer is driving his private car 5 MPH over the speed limit so he doesn't impede traffic on a crowded highway. Everyone else is going 5-7 MPH over the limit as well. By going only 5 over he is technically breaking the law without an emergency excuse but he is keeping himself and others safe while encouraging others to drive slightly slower.
    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:But what if you did nothing wrong? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speeding, by itself, isn't right or wrong. The law "don't speed" is for saftey of all, under most circumstances. However, there are exceptions to the "law" due to the fact of extenuating circumstances. In this case the siren and lights on emergency vehicles are indications of the exception in progress. So, your analogy is wrong on many levels.

      A Hypocrite says "don't steal", which is wrong, and then gets caught taking something that is someone else's. The Hypocrite says "I did nothing wrong" and makes excuses as why what he did isn't wrong. A person with a momentary lapse of judgment will say "Oh shit, Sorry. How do I fix this". Generally speaking Hypocrites don't believe the rule(s) apply to them. Hypocrisy usually becomes clearer over time, and not always apparent at first glance.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:But what if you did nothing wrong? by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      This could be considered one of the instances that doesn't count in your "most circumstances", but at least in the US, the highway speed limit was set to save gas, not for safety.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

    3. Re:But what if you did nothing wrong? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      If that were the case, then the speed limit would be 45mph or so, not 55, which is even more efficient than 55 is (most vehicles, YMMV). Fact is, it is probably more of a combination of the two (safety and mileage).

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  28. Fiscal oversight should be there regardless by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Or at least some significant fiscal oversight needs to be put in place, and a responsible board of (unpaid) directors needs to take over. Fiscal oversight and a board of directors should be routine with any public foundation.

    It's just common sense and in some states and countries it's required by law or custom.
    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Fiscal oversight should be there regardless by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      There is already a board of directors (though iirc it is stacked in wales favor with of the 5 members two being personal friends of his and one being him). There is also a firm of auditors who supposedly audit the financial statements.

      The trouble with expenses is a combination of honesty and where to draw the line. Is eating out while travelling between two venues on buisness a reasonable buisness expense? yes. Is having a very expensive meal while travelling on buisness a reasonable buisness expense. Probablly not IMO but it is also probablly not so outragous that the auditors could do anything about it. And how are the auditors to know whether someone was really travelling on foundation buisness when they incurred the expenses they are claiming for. What about travelling a long distance in a taxi and negotiating a cheaper rate but claiming you paid full fare? how are the auditors going to know about that?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  29. Uncyclopedia entry on Jimmy Wales by sm62704 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    This article is a filthy Image whore.
    This article has been with way too many images.
    This article would be right at home on the streets of Bangkok sucking someone off for $3. Hell, you may even get lucky with this article.

    This article may have something to do with The lore and faerie tale of Wikiland and its noble and majestik King Jimbo I. Then again, it might not. Who knows?"

    "I gave him a small penis after he reverted my entries."
    ~ God on Jimbo Wales

    "Imagine a world where every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. I expect this to occur next year, barring unforseen -- what are you staring at, punk? You actually think you could take my idealistic ass? I'd like to see you try."
    ~ Jimmy Wales

    "We make internet access to porn not suck"
    ~ Jimmy Wales on "www.Bomis.com," his adult internet search engine.

    Jimbo Wales, Prince of the United States is a well-known huckster, con-man and dictator of Wikiland, who has adopted a lifestyle of libertinage, debauchery, nudism, international travel, kitten huffing and Ferrari connoisseurship by standing on the shoulders of a million nerds; although he simply describes himself as a "rockstar, but without the sex and drugs"[1]. He is a high-ranking member both of the GNAA ,NAMBLA and among the leaders of the Sicilian Mafia, and frequently trolls the satirical "encyclopedia" Wikipedia as part of his official duties. He is well known for his amusing stunts. These include editing his own biography to pretend that he actually came up with the whole idea, and accusing people of killing JFK and Gerald Ford. His account has been locked thricewise and twain for vandalism and replacing entire pages with the phrase TROLLS AER THE 13347 several hundred times. His most memorable vandalism was his repeated claim on the Wikipedia page for Uncyclopedia that Uncyclopedia was, in fact, a parody site of Wikipedia. Even though, in fact, it is the other way around, Jones imprinted some kind of malicious code on the edit page, locking the statement in place for all to see. For a brief time, he was thought to have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both John, and his brother, John 2.0. Nothing was ever proven.
    There is, of course, more.

    Bye bye karma, it was nice knowin' ya!
    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  30. Wow by PalmKiller · · Score: 1

    $325 for each steak dinner, what was it half a cow for each. I certainly hope they had lots of vintage wine with it or something like that. About the wiki entry, who cares its just a community website, its not like he edited a real encyclopedia...are they fishing for more visitors or something?

    1. Re:Wow by Kazrath · · Score: 1

      The problem is most rational people will not pay 100's of dollars a plate. But there are restaurants that will serve just about any meal at exhorborant prices. 50-150 a plate for the dinner another 200-500 dollars a bottle for wine or maybe two. Then you add in desert... and wallah you have spent over a thousand dollars.

      Of course if you go to the local chain steakhouse or a hole-in-the-wall type place you may get just as enjoyable of a meal but it does not have the large prestiege of paying a thousand +

  31. The difference is oversight by davidwr · · Score: 1

    CEOs who collect a paycheck and even those who get reimbursed for meals have these expenses approved by someone other than themselves and/or given rules to follow for reimbursable expenses.

    It's fine if he takes 3 friends out for an expensive meal if he follows the rules laid down by the foundation for reimbursed meal expenses. It's equally fine if he collects a $325/day paycheck instead, as long as it's done according to foundation rules and doesn't otherwise violate the law.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  32. Re:Hitler by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Godwin would have, too.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  33. His Wiki Page by WebmasterNeal · · Score: 1

    Ironically with all this news about him recently, his own page on wikipedia appears to be missing all of this info. Are the wiki-ites so dedicated that they can't post current news and criticism about him?

    --
    "During My Service In The United States Congress, I Took The Initiative In Creating The Internet." -Al Gore
  34. Here's why it matters by keineobachtubersie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What percentage of the Slashdot populace has donated to Wikipedia?

    What percentage of them would like to know that their donations went to unapproved steak dinners that we know of, and god know what else that we don't?

    Sorry, if you make it your business to solicit money from me, then you make things like this my business.

    And no, I don't consider the willingness to steal a small sum any different than the willingness to steal a large one.

    1. Re:Here's why it matters by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Okay. I've donated a couple hundred dollars to wikipedia. Maybe they can ear mark that towards the steak dinner. Should we open up a separate donation for his breakfast?

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    2. Re:Here's why it matters by keineobachtubersie · · Score: 1

      "I've donated a couple hundred dollars to wikipedia."

      Great, what does that have to do with the steak dinner?

      You are capable of discerning the difference between the foundation you donated to and the thief who stole from it aren't you?

      Because at the moment, it doesn't look like you are.

  35. I can has grammar? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    [ALL CAPS]
    "Rite us shinny burb on Wikipedia!!!" I can say I wuz goin wif their policy cuz teh editors shud ov caught mah writin?
    [/ALL CAPS]

    --Grammar Nazi of the stupid funny feline purrsuasion
    [damn you Slashdot all-caps filter!!!]

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:I can has grammar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You has flavr of troll... And AC beat you to Punch.

  36. There's also the whole antisocialmedia.net thing by Phat_Tony · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At some point I picked up in slashdot comments about the whole antisocialmedia.net/Gary Weiss/Judd Bagley/Overstock.com mess and decided I was interested enough to spend the time (several hours) reading everything I could about it and trying to figure out what the heck was going on. I haven't got the several hours more it would take to try to recreate and document my findings here in a slashdot post, but I came into this with no preconceived notions, and if I had any leanings, I really like wikipedia and wanted it to be in the right. But I mostly concluded otherwise. Yes, Judd Bagley took many inappropriate actions- but who cares, he's just some guy. It looks like Wikipedia took many more incorrect actions, and it's a foundation that is supposed to behave appropriately.

    I found the documentation of rampant editorial abuse to pursue personal agendas, going all the way up the support of Jimbo, to be very convincing. Read anitsocialmedia.net, examine the documentation, look at attempts to counter Bagley's arguments on the web, and draw your own conclusions, but I came off extremely disappointed in Wikipedia, and will be even more suspicious of its content in the future. I already was prepared to take Wikipedia content with a grain of salt because it can be edited by anyone, but it's much worse to know that an editor can have their own petty dictatorial custodianship of an article where they deliberately delete well documented and referenced relevant facts, perpetuate falsehoods, don't let anyone else edit it or even discuss it on the discussion page, ban even extremely well-established editors with good reputations if they try to touch these articles, and even delete the history of the article and the history of their own edits and contributions. I still think wikipedia's valuable, because most articles aren't run this way, but I always have to keep in mind that some are, and I don't really know if I'm looking at something people were free to edit and debate on the talk page and try to work towards a consensus on, or the biased opinions of a single dictatorial editor.

    --
    Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
  37. stupidity, not corruption by nguy · · Score: 1

    Wales may be squandering Wikipedia funds, but that's not the same as "corruption" or embezzlement. As long as he officially requests the reimbursements from the foundation and the foundation pays and this is visible in its financial documents, it may be stupid on their part and his, but it's not wrongdoing.

    Many non-profits, including so-called aid organizations, that have achieved much less than Wikipedia, pay their officers lavish salaries.

    1. Re:stupidity, not corruption by XaXXon · · Score: 1

      It can no be "wrongdoing" but still news. A lot of people have an expectation that donations to wikipedia go towards the maintenance of wikipedia, not $325/plate dinners.

      I'll definitely think twice before donating. I know there are administratice costs - but this is excessive.

    2. Re:stupidity, not corruption by nguy · · Score: 1

      It can no be "wrongdoing" but still news.

      Sure: stupidity of this kind is news. But it's not corruption or embezzlement, both of which are actually crimes.

  38. Re:And your point is? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    "AC": "Anonymous Coward", "Another Conservative"

    Who pretends the point is somehow hard to see, and that cursing at me in a Slashdot post does anything but prove how stupid fake "Conservatives" are, especially when Conservatives' corruption is being exposed yet again.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  39. a hypocritical douche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is that like when you don't have that not-so-fresh feeling, but you say you do?

  40. Re:Hitler by Gloy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Godwin would have, too. Since Godwin is employed by the Wikimedia Foundation, he probably already has.
  41. what makes speeding wrong by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Some people live by an moral code that says you must follow the laws of government unless they conflict with a higher moral law. If they violate a statute without a good reason they are hypocrites. If they speed without reason, they are hypocrites not because they sped, but because they violated the rules imposed by government without a good reason.

    In the example of speeding to a hospital because the ambulance would be too slow, there is a conflict with the higher moral law that says you must save a life when you can.

    In the example of speeding 5mph over on the highway, there is an alternative that satisfied the law and the moral code: Don't drive on roads that are unsafe to drive on at or below the speed limit. Now, is the cop in this example a hypocrite? It depends on what his moral code tells him.

    Generally speaking Hypocrites don't believe the rule(s) apply to them Sometimes, the rules really don't apply to a particular person or to a particular situation. You see on TV where cops lie or break the law during drug busts because the law allows them to do so. That is, the "normal rules" that apply to everyone else don't apply to them. That is but one example of many.
    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  42. Jimmy Wales' own Wikipedia entry is locked. by perdue · · Score: 1

    And there is currently no mention of the Rachel Marsden or spending issues. Seems there was an edit war going on.

  43. This is Rachael Marsdens revenge by Jailbrekr · · Score: 1

    You may not know Rachael, but I do. She is, simply put, a stalker who knows how to work the system and play the victim card. She got her swim coach fired after he spurned her obsessive and aggressive pursuits, stalked one of the women who believed her stories of victimization at the hand of said coach, and was actually convicted in 2004 of stalking a radio personality in Vancouver.

    Do you honestly think this whole 'abuse of power' accusation is a coincidence? I think not.

    --
    Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
    1. Re:This is Rachael Marsdens revenge by STrinity · · Score: 1

      She got her swim coach fired after he spurned her obsessive and aggressive pursuits
      The man was obviously unsane. I mean look at her. I'd hit that like Shoemaker-Levy 9 if she made obsessive and aggressive advances at me.
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    2. Re:This is Rachael Marsdens revenge by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, hot crazy women are great..for a while. Then the break up is.... interesting.

      Been there, it was fun but I wouldn't do it again.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  44. Wikipedia and big Corporate donations by zymano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How can it stay objective with their funding coming from big biz?

    I have noticed all the 'Spam entries' like Chipotle's restaurant.

    When I added a bit on their prices , it was quickly removed.

    1. Re:Wikipedia and big Corporate donations by hansamurai · · Score: 1
      I didn't believe you at first, it was one of those "I love * how could they ever do something like this!" moments. But then I checked out the article and it was actually pretty hilarious. This is my favorite part (that supports your theory)

      The above items come filled with one of the following items:

              * Chicken thighs marinated in a spicy chipotle pepper adobo and grilled
              * Carnitas (shredded pork) seasoned with thyme, bay leaves, juniper berries, and cracked pepper; seared and then braised; no hot pepper
              * Barbacoa (shredded beef) seared and then braised in chipotle pepper adobo with cumin, garlic, and other spices; mildly spicy
              * Steak marinated in a spicy chipotle pepper adobo and then grilled; lean, medium-rare, and somewhat spicy
              * Vegetarian (guacamole), guacamole is also available as an extra cost option with one of the other four fillings That just seems incredibly detailed for a Wikipedia that lately strikes down anything that goes into so much information.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipotle_Mexican_Grill
    2. Re:Wikipedia and big Corporate donations by heteromonomer · · Score: 1

      I agree with the parent poster. I have seen it happening with other corporations as well. I worry about the superiority of democratization of knowledge disbursal however. Imagine wikipedia declaring "intelligent design" as the currently accepted theory, just because the majority happen to believe it (just using it as a hypothetical example).

    3. Re:Wikipedia and big Corporate donations by aleph42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's an important example; and in fact intelligent design would never be called the accepted theory even with a vote system.

      Why? Because on Wikipedia you have to write verifiable facts; and when intelligent design claims that "there is a significant part of the scientific community which disagree with evolution", they simply don't have the proofs to support it (all articles they could link are from the same few intelligent design advocates who have a phd).

      (it doesn't mean there is no article on inteligent design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design; just that there is no mention of it on the "evolution" article)

      That kind of "guidelines" on wikipedia effectively serve as a constitution; it's pretty efficient, but not as much as full blown moderation and meta-moderation as we have here, on Slashdot. Personaly, I think it's a shame, and I would love to see more "jury duty" like moderation on wikipedia, or some fork of it!

      --
      Don't take my posts literally; it's just code to control my botnet.
  45. Conflict of Interest != can't edit it by Dekortage · · Score: 0, Redundant

    According to Wikipedia's conflict of interest (COI) rules, there is nothing to prevent COI edits as long as they maintain Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. Editors are strongly discouraged from making COI edits because it's really really hard to avoid bias. But, nonetheless, it can be possible for someone deeply involved in something to write a nearly unbiased article, or make unbiased edits.

    Given this, I don't see why Jimmy could not edit Marsden's article, as long as it was an objective edit. The idea that he handled it through other editors suggests that he was trying to hide something.

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
  46. Key word: Allegations by SirStiff · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There appear to be two sides to this story. There seem to be many points defending him.

    And although a $1300 meal sounds expensive, the article doesn't actually say it was a dinner with friends. Maybe he dined with some corporate donors that would be responsible for contributing many times that amount back to the foundation.

  47. Confirmation by Fifth+Earth · · Score: 1

    Just confirms what I've known for years. Wikipedia succeeds despite its staff, not because of it.

  48. Re:$1300 for a dinner is not 'corruption' by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Enron!

    Perfect example.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  49. Shocked by lucifig · · Score: 1

    I'm frankly shocked that the person responsible for bomis.com would stoop to this level! In all seriousness, I don't think Jimmy would be a demi-god if he hadn't surrounded himself by weak-willed yet highly creative staff at Nupedia. I of course base this opinion solely on reading done at my favorite site, http://www.wikipedia.com/

    1. Re:Shocked by dtobias · · Score: 1

      ...which actually redirects to its real address, wikipedia.org .

      --
      --Dan
      Web Tips
  50. Who cares? by PurpleZebra · · Score: 1

    If the charges are true then burn him for stealing from wikimedia, but short of that, who cares? I think that the guy has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allegations like this. The SFGate should actually report news instead of the possibility of news.

  51. Typical by Teflon_Jeff · · Score: 1

    I'm not shocked at all. I keep up on the business world pretty well, and Jummy wales, as a businessman, is scum [citation needed]

    Unlike the Google and Yahoo guys, Wikipedia seems to be run by someone without the "don't be evil" mantra.

    --
    "Teach a man to build a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
  52. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  53. It's a matter of what's allowed by Radtastic · · Score: 1

    I don't know much about Wikipedia's charter (and I'm not interested enough to go find out), but it's more an issue of what he's authorized to do within that organization.

    If, for example, the charter says to the equivalent of "So & so is entitled to $X amount dining/entertaining allowance", then, by definition, all the contributors to the nonprofit agree it, and this item isn't even news.

    If, on the other hand, the charter says "No funds will be used for entertaining, food, or beverage." then we have an abuse of power.

    If there's ambiguity... then...that's the downside of ambiguity.

    I won't hijack the thread onto acceptable compensation for nonprofit organizations.

    --
    You stereotypers are all the same...
  54. Re:Hitler by Robber+Baron · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Hitler would have said the same thing. Hitler wouldn't have needed to because he would have been smart enough to steer well clear of that rabbit-boiling rat-bag stalker in the first place.
    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

  55. Mistakes by Jabbrwokk · · Score: 1

    Good point.

    The big difference is the Encyclopedia Brittanica is put out by an organization which can be held to account for mistakes, and correct them next edition. There is accountability with Wikipedia, but it's limited - how do you hold an anonymous IP address from one of its thousands of editors accountable? Better ask the RIAA how they do it.

    But anyone using Wikipedia - or the encyclopedia - for any kind of meaningful research, and for citation, deserves a smack upside the head with Brittanica's fattest volume. They're starting points, nothing more, not the sum of all human knowledge.

    1. Re:Mistakes by nuzak · · Score: 1

      It's not just the accuracy either, it's the quality of writing. Virtually every article that's vaguely controversial in any respect is full of weasel worded insinuations, rambling tangents, or outright "some say / others say" crossfires. Any cited sources are themselves typically quite slanted or otherwise dubious.

      Of course, you can get extremely detailed methodological analysis of virtually every episode of every anime program ever aired, along with all the characters that appear in them.

      Oh well, mostly harmless. Don't Panic. Unfortunately, it lacks the witty writing to rise to *that* standard as well.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    2. Re:Mistakes by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a bit mean. Wikipedia has obvious problems, but the fact that it is probably the world's largest book and is more or less accurate is an astonishing achievement. What it loses in accuracy or polish it makes up for in sheer breadth.

      The problems it has occur largely because the management, and Wales in particular, are incompetent. Many of the obvious problems with Wikipedia could be solved by having professional administrators (at least at the top of the tree) who are barred from creating content, but merely enforce the rules. When those who create the content may also enforce the rules, it is obvious that there is the potential for conflict of interest. It is even worse when not only are those who create the content able to enforce the rules, but are able to themselves make the rules.

      As it stands, Wikipedia's open structure encourages obsessives with major personality disorders. It's no surprise that the most influential admins tend to be obsessive, manipulative, vindictive scum, because the structure of the organization is such that obsessive, manipulative, vindictive scum will rise to the top. If you aren't an obsessive, you simply won't be able to match the work rate of people who are, and if you aren't Machiavellian, you will be beaten out by people who are. Communities need separation between those who make the rules, those who interpret them, and those who enforce them. Wikipedia doesn't have that, so the rules are simply interpreted according to the interests of the ruling clique.

      It's all turned out rather like "Animal Farm" (with Wales as the swine in chief). Secret email lists, administrators who are seemingly able to break the rules, yet never be punished, while good faith editors whose agenda conflicts with those of the ruling clique are blocked based on the most trivial evidence. Mindless groupthink among the cabal. Rules continue to multiply like rabbits, many of them based on the weird personal agendas of admins. The Israel/Palestine articles are a shameful mess, etc.

      Jimbo Wales has to go. Wikipedia is now one of the most important and influential sites on the net. It needs, competent and professional management.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
    3. Re:Mistakes by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      It's not just the accuracy either, it's the quality of writing. Virtually every article that's vaguely controversial in any respect is full of weasel worded insinuations, rambling tangents, or outright "some say / others say" crossfires

      Though weasel words exist in all sorts of "authoritative" sources, Wikipedia is the only (that I've seen, though maybe there are others) that acknowledges weasel words for what they are, and actively tries to get rid of them. Before I came across this concept of Wikipedia, I never noticed weasel words and I subconsciously accepted them. Now when I read all sorts of texts, I see them painfully sticking out like sore thumbs.

      Even in places like museums I've seen them on boards that give information (and I wished I had a bunch of [[weasel words]] stickers to put on them...)

      Point us out some examples of these 'outright "some say / others say" crossfires', then I and I'm sure many other readers here will get to work tagging, fixing or removing such examples.

      Of course, you can get extremely detailed methodological analysis of virtually every episode of every anime program ever aired, along with all the characters that appear in them.

      I don't care about anime, but I often do look at Wikipedia when I want to find out some detail about a TV show. I don't see how that detracts from the other kinds of articles though, which I also find useful.

    4. Re:Mistakes by mathmathrevolution · · Score: 1

      you nailed it.

    5. Re:Mistakes by DrMaurer · · Score: 1

      So, you've convinced me that sometimes big sites like Wikipedia outgrow their founders. They stick around too long, muddying up the waters, making it difficult, or just being in the way of progress.

      It's the executive version of the Peter Principle.

      Such is the way of almost every small business that reaches it's plateau. The owners (founders) are not willing to bite the bullet and leave for the betterment of the company. They have reached the level of their incompetence.

      But, because it's a community, how does Wikipedia (or other social media/forum/blog sites) differ? Does it?

      I don't know. It's a question.

      --
      Dan
    6. Re:Mistakes by makomk · · Score: 1

      "Of course, you can get extremely detailed methodological analysis of virtually every episode of every anime program ever aired, along with all the characters that appear in them." You could, anyway. There's been a concerted effort to mass delete that sort of article recently. In fact, the ArbCom just sanctioned the main offender, TTM, by forbidding him from trying to merge, redirect or delete any article related to a TV episode or character.

  56. Not at all by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    Hitler did not use Vokswagen to whitewash himself because he did not see that he was doing wrong. Most of Volkswagen's triumphs have been post Hilter. Hilter just started the ball rolling.

    Bill Gates, on the other hand, uses his philanthropy to Microsoft's benefit. Even the big press meeting where Warren Buffett made his announcements was on a stage draped in Microsoft ad material. Clearly Microsoft was supposed to absorb some of the good karma.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  57. $330 each! by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 1
    I hope he got a note from is manager advising him to eat more cheaply. No wait ....

    I once managed to spend $90 per head in a steak house directly opposite the Opera House in Portland, OR. For that we got a very large steak, a poor quality baked potato (no texture) and broccoli! Won't go there again. I figure we paid $35 each for the meal and $55 for the nice white linen tablecloth and general ambience (of which it had lots because it was almost deserted even immediately after the Opera).

    But that wasn't on expenses, thank god.

    --
    Squirrel!
  58. Wikipedia is not a democracy. by students · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:Wikipedia is not a democracy. by aleph42 · · Score: 1

      Yes, and this is the problem.

      Take Slashdot: it's far more democratic; even though the founders still have special powers, it's hard to imagine the oligarchy problem that resulted in the abusive ban of an IP range on Wikipedia: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/12/07/1434221.shtml

      I think Wikipedia CAN and SHOULD be a democracy experiment.

      --
      Don't take my posts literally; it's just code to control my botnet.
  59. Ridiculous by teslatug · · Score: 1

    Do people know that Jimbo spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money to get Wikipedia started? He's also on the board so $1300 is basically nothing compared to what he's given the foundation.

  60. This is all Jimbo's fault by Gregory+Rider · · Score: 1

    He has only himself to blame. Had he actually read the original article he was so busy screwing with in between "marathon sex" sessions, he would've known what he was up against!

  61. Re:Key word: Allegations by NeoSkink · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the article:

    "In an interview with the Associated Press, Florence Devouard, who chairs the Wikimedia Foundation, defended Wales and said he had simply been "slow in submitting receipts." She pointed out that the foundation rejected the steakhouse expense."

  62. Marsden or Money? by sarhjinian · · Score: 1

    It's unfortunate that the central issue among commenters here isn't that Wales may or may not have abused his expense account (and really, he'd be far from the first to do so), it's that this puts the Rachel Marsden editing scuffle from a few months back into an a new light:

    http://talkcontribs.blogspot.com/2007/06/whitewash-on-wikipedia.html

    Now, there's a chicken-and-egg problem here (was work done on the articles in question done before or after work was done on Wales?) but this kind of bending of the facts to suit a Wales (or anyone with responsibility at Wikipedia) really gives Wikipedia a black eye. If a normal media executive distorted facts about someone he/she was personally involved with, there would be a call from directors for a resignation if for no other reason than to save the organization's reputation. Between this and the overstock.com fiasco, it might be time for some resignations to happen before their credibility is overly damaged.

    --
    --srj/mmv
  63. Do you even know what Godwins law is? by geekoid · · Score: 1


    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

    That's it.

    BY the way, the person that calls Godwin's law is the looser.

    http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/godwin.html

    Now, the posted did not qualify as a candidate for Godwin's law

    Saying:
    "People who want gun control as as bad as Hitler." Does warrant an invocation of the law
    "Hitler took gun's away from people." does not(In most contexts)

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Do you even know what Godwins law is? by 10Ghz · · Score: 1

      "Hitler took gun's away from people." does not(In most contexts)


      Sorry to nitpick, but Hitler did not disarm the Germans, the Weimar Republic (the government prior to Nazi-rule) did. The goal was to prevent an armed rebellion against the government by the Nazis, commies and all those other factions that existed in the post-WW1 Germany. And you could say that their plan worked: there was no armed rebellion. Nazis rose to power through democratic means.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  64. It is a big deal by Kagato · · Score: 1

    The facts seem to be this:

    1) He thought a $1300 meal was okay and submitted it. Having worked in the Non-Profit sector, $1300 is a big deal. In particular for an organization that goes around to the general public with it's hat in it's hand on a regular basis. How he wants to run his for profit is one thing, this is another.

    2) The board of directors thought it was a big enough deal that they cut his Amex card in half. Organization executives don't loose charging privileges over a simple misunderstandings and mistakes. It just doesn't happen and there's no way to spin it otherwise.

    My Opinion is this:

    He's stealing from all of us that have donated money to the cause. It's pretty crappy. I think Wikipedia is one of those organizations that succeeds despite the actions of it's organizer and editors.

  65. Until by geekoid · · Score: 1

    a moderators religious view begin infecting the science pages. So, it may nit involve your use now, but it could.
    That is why you should care.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  66. After reading all of this... by plowboylifestyle · · Score: 1

    I breathlessly browsed over to Wikipedia.org. Good news, it's still useful.

  67. Re:Hitler by dingbatdr · · Score: 1

    Sounds like you dated her yourself.

    --
    The truth is an offense, but not a sin.------R. N. Marley
  68. ... and speaking of inept (bad summary) by fair_n_hite_451 · · Score: 1

    Was reading about this earlier, and the $1300 dollar steak dinner is a bit of a red herring. The story is that Jimmy asked for it to be covered, and it was refused. So, he's not abusing the expense account, he's only trying to ... and there was at least one "check and balance" in place to keep it from happening.
     
    As for the stuff about Marsden, I'd take it with some grains of salt attached. She's a nutbar, and has been well-covered in the Canadian media for potential false allegations of sexual misconduct against an athletic coach of hers, stalking (on her part), getting fired, etc.
     
    Jimmy Wales is likely guilty of letting wealth and fame go to his head, but he's had a LOT of help getting there.

    --
    Reason why there is hope for the future generation #364:
    "I wish my grass was emo so it could cut itself."
    1. Re:... and speaking of inept (bad summary) by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
      No, the interesting story, as posited by Danny Wool, who is a good place to be able to say things like this with some credibility - is that at one point, Jimmy had $30,000 of expense receipting owing. He "settled" the reimbursement process with two checks, to the total of $7,000 or so, which were given as donations, not reimbursements, to the Foundation, so he could get a tax write off on them.

      Wish I could get a tax-writeoff on the reimbursement of expenses on my for-profit company by virtue of making them charitable donations to the other arm (yeah yeah, they're independent, right, and the fact several sit on both boards, and the Form 990 filed by WMF lists Wikia as 'substantially related', that all means nothing).

  69. Re:What is wrong with you people by eli+pabst · · Score: 1

    The rest of us were taught the difference when we were children, maybe someday you'll learn.
    Well it's good to know you learned something as a child, because apparently it wasn't social skills. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that people find it difficult to work for you or with you, likely because you're the same kind of douchebag who keeps the pencils under lock and key and raves about theft when someone uses more than 4-5 squares of toilet paper.
  70. I've tried adding an 'h' into his last name, by SurturZ · · Score: 1

    I've tried several times to add an 'h' to his last name but it keeps getting reverted.

  71. embezzlement == stealing by WK2 · · Score: 1

    Wales may be squandering Wikipedia funds, but that's not the same as "corruption" or embezzlement.

    Buying a server you don't need would be squandering funds. Using company funds for personal expenses is the definition of embezzlement. It is similar to putting company funds into a personal bank account for later use of personal expenses. I would shed no tears over Jimmy Wales going to jail. Maybe it is common, but that doesn't make it right, legal, or acceptable.

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  72. Re:There's also the whole antisocialmedia.net thin by maxume · · Score: 1

    Issues with editors is a management issue for the foundation.

    The similar problem where the more persistent individual will generally win an edit war is a wiki problem. I don't think it is that big a deal, but it moderates the energy I personally spend worrying about other control issues and policies, because it is more fundamental and nearly impossible to work around without abandoning 'wiki'.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  73. Anticipation. by PatboyX · · Score: 1

    How long before we see a headline "Outlaw Jimmy Wales"

  74. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  75. Re:Hitler by Mathinker · · Score: 1

    I love the fact that there is exactly one Godwin in this article thread.

    Check the facts - use Wikipedia!

    LOL

  76. No, it was all about sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He would not have had to lie if people had not started a witch hunt on his sexual escapade. In more "open" countries, it does not matter if the president has got a bastard child and show in public with her (France , Miteran).

  77. You are a woman or a child , aren't you ? by aepervius · · Score: 1

    QUOTE: Jimbo is like a 40 year old man, he should know better than to stick his dick into some crazy woman with a history of stalking.

    Most men I know will not take the personality of the woman into account, if she is attractive , and if they get half a chance to stick their dick in her.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  78. Half a chance? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    If she gives me so much as a quarter chance I'm going for it. Give me a whiff of a hint of a nuance of a chance and I'll stalk her...

    Pussy trumps crazy every time. Besides it's pretty hard to be crazier then me.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  79. 'It's Good to be the King' one time too many by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    I worked for some time as a consultant in the Electric Utility Industry.

    During that time I learned a procedure commonly used to keep clients at MUDs, PUDs etc happy. As non-profits their senior staff's expenses were watched carefully. Hence no expensive meals for them. We as consultants would take the senior staff and their wives out to the best places in town. $1300 for four would have been a cheap night. We proceeded to add 12% as a 'billing fee' and bill the client.

    Never a problem.

    Everybody understood what was going on. Everybody. Except a few ratepayers. Suckers, thanks for the Kobe beef and all that wine.

    The point is even if we skirted the rules, we knew very well where the boundary line was and didn't cross it. I once tried to expense titty bar costs, couldn't get receipts from the strippers though.

    The BOFH would have loved us. One hand washes the other...keep those license fees coming and we'll keep buying the good stuff.

    I blew it by telling a few clients more of less the truth about a software products quality level (it was right in front of them). After that they kept me off the road.

    My point of this ramble. I'm sure there were plenty of ways to get his expensive meal paid for. He just didn't think he needed to go through the motion as it was 'good to be the king'.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  80. Reductio at Hitlerum by elguillelmo · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's right. The law is a cautionary argument to be used against association fallacies like "the Nazis supported X, so X must be evil" (Reductio ad Hitlerum). As the previous post on Volkswagen made the reversal comparison (in the common counter-fallacy way: "yeah, and Hitler was vegetarian, so it meat!"), is not to be Godwin'ed

    --
    Dawkins Revisited: A person is shit's way of making more shit -- Steve Barnett, anthropologist.
  81. It's still wrong. by raehl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Whether it's common or not is irrelevant.

    It's not ethical. No part of Wikipedia's mission is providing expensive dinners to donors and administrators. The donor is essentially getting a kickback and the administrator is misappropriating funds.

    I run a non-profit. When I'm eating on the non-profit tab, it's when I'm traveling on non-profit business and done in an economical manner - no cocktails for sure! If a potential donor/sponsor wants to talk about it over dinner, they pay for the dinner. They don't expect a non-profit to be paying for their dinner, and frankly, I think our donors/sponsors would find it a little bit odd were the non-profit they were supporting spending money on such things.

    But I guess I must just deal with ethical people, not a bunch of white-collar cronies setting up ways to write off expensive dinners on their taxes.

    1. Re:It's still wrong. by AxelBoldt · · Score: 1

      I run a non-profit. [...] But I guess I must just deal with ethical people

      I hope you are ethical enough not to draw a salary from your non-profit, like Jimbo Wales. He only gets his traveling expenses reimbursed from the foundation (and the $1,300 dinner bill was rejected); he basically lives off speaker's fees and his Wikia salary.

    2. Re:It's still wrong. by ajs · · Score: 1

      Whether it's common or not is irrelevant.

      It's not ethical. No part of Wikipedia's mission is providing expensive dinners to donors and administrators. And yet, shmoozing donors is the #1 job of most non-profits because without doing so, they disappear. Do you really think that your $50 donation back when you bothered to do so kept Wikipedia afloat? No, it's the big donors who like to size up the organization and gauge how effective their donation will be that keep these organizations afloat.

      If you think it's not ethical for him to spend your money on getting more money for the Foundation, then you should never donate to United Way or the Jimmy Fund or the Ronald McDonald House or any other non-profit. They will wantonly spend your money on making more money in an attempt to run their business.

    3. Re:It's still wrong. by raehl · · Score: 1

      It just so happens that I am that ethical.

  82. What huh? by raehl · · Score: 1

    Spending $100 to save $35 on taxes does not leave you with more money to do anything.

    1. Re:What huh? by dustmite · · Score: 1

      Uh, wtf!? It most certainly does when you were going to spend the $100 (e.g. have the dinner) anyway!?? Let's see: One one hand, spend $100 and don't expense it. On the other hand, spend $100 and expense it. This seems like an incredible no-brainer. Next time you try make a "clever comment", think it through first, or try a topic where you actually know what you're talking about.

  83. Bit of loon isn't he? by Fuzzypig · · Score: 1

    From what I have gathered Mr Wales is a bit of loony, doesn't he call himself the spirtual leader of Wiki or some such nonsense? Didn't Sanger leave Wikipedia because Wales was being such a nob-cheese about everything? I like Wiki, it's not that bad, but I only use it to look up trivial stuff like band info and the odd historical bit of info, silly stuff like dates of major events, but there is no way I would rely on it for a life saving thing or coursework for a qualification, too many people out there in user land, think the Wiki can be relied on for solid facts!

    --
    Windows guys please stop pissing on everyone and the Linux guys stop pissing in the wind, hoping to hit Windows guys!
  84. Re:What is wrong with you people by Stu+Charlton · · Score: 1

    Expensing business dinners is a pretty common business practice in technology companies -- even expensive dinners. I've expensed a $2000 dinner before (for 10 people, though).

    Of course, it should have some kind of connection to business -- whether it's a celebratory dinner (usually paid for), or a sales dinner, or one to solicit doners, etc...

    --
    -Stu
  85. Can someone explain ? by nickname29 · · Score: 1

    One thing I don't understand about Americans (as a non-American).

    Jimmy Wales is pretty liberal (seeing as he operated his own p0rn network).

    Now this Rachel Marsden is described as a Canadian conservative columnist. How the heck can they be in a relationship? Is conservatism different? How can this work?

  86. Re:There's also the whole antisocialmedia.net thin by makomk · · Score: 1

    Yes, that was interesting. Basically, Matanmoreland has been abusing sockpuppet accounts to influence articles (general reckoning is that, if he's who people suspect he is, he also has a massive conflict of interest). He's been caught once before and had his sockpuppets taken away (though not without Wikipedia banning and ignoring the first few people who pointed the issue out).

    Recently, someone put together strong evidence that another account - Samiharris - was a sockpuppet of him (this has been suspected for ages, but he was careful enough to make it hard to prove, and anyone claiming it was permanently banned, usually as a sockpuppet of WordBomb). The ArbCom decided the evidence wasn't enough. Never mind that Wikipedia has been permanently banning anyone who takes the other side to him on these areas as sockpuppets on flimsy (and often incorrect) grounds for some time.

    There was also an interesting bit where Jimmy Wales himself intervened to stop a prolific editor inserting a relevant and cited statement from a New York Times article on the Gary Weiss page, because it embarassed Weiss. It also embarassed various other people, but since they were on the other side of the issue, using it on their articles was OK. Matanmoreland (suspected to be Gary Weiss himself, though don't say that on Wikipedia unless you want to be banned) then used this to keep said link off the article.

  87. Re:There's also the whole antisocialmedia.net thin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already was prepared to take Wikipedia content with a grain of salt because it can be edited by anyone, but it's much worse to know that an editor can have their own petty dictatorial custodianship of an article where they deliberately delete well documented and referenced relevant facts, perpetuate falsehoods, don't let anyone else edit it or even discuss it on the discussion page, ban even extremely well-established editors with good reputations if they try to touch these articles, and even delete the history of the article and the history of their own edits and contributions.


    Sounds like some of the "peer reviewed" journals and articles.