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New Lock Aims To End Chip Piracy

Stony Stevenson writes "Pirated microchips based on stolen blueprints could soon be a thing of the past thanks to computer engineers at Rice University and the University of Michigan. The engineers have devised a way to head off this costly infringement by giving each chip its own unique lock and key. The patent holder would hold the keys, and the chip would securely communicate with the patent holder to unlock itself. The chip could operate only after being unlocked. The Ending Piracy of Integrated Circuits (Epic) technique relies on established cryptography methods, and introduces subtle changes into the chip design process without affecting performance or power consumption. With Epic protection enabled, each integrated circuit would be manufactured with a few extra switches that behave like a combination lock."

312 comments

  1. Physical DRM by QMalcolm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Great.

    1. Re:Physical DRM by burni · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yep, "great"!

      .. soon to be cracked, by a great army of brilliant chinese/taiwanese/etc.. engineers,
      specialized in getting to know how everything works.

      Just to remember, how long did it took to crack HD-DVD encryption ?
      Not long enough to survive it's own extinction.

      We all know the story's ending, it just happens too often.

    2. Re:Physical DRM by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Problem is it wont fly. Chips are made to be as cheap as possible. Paying a licensing fee and then requiring the damn thing to be on the internet to be activated is not only stupid but completely unmarketable.

      There is a reason that Grey market chips get made of popular chips. Because the manufacturers are price whores and get them made at the cheapest plant in China. how about not paying the executive staff obscene salaries for their useless butts and have the items made in a location that is reputable and trustworthy?

      finally, I found a way around the china syndrome of copying. Send them a Test firmware so they can test the product but not operate it, then you simply re-flash with a jtag jig when the good boards arrive. The china operation never get's their hands on the firmware so they cant copy the product.

      The whole article is nothing more than an advertisement for a useless technology that only a uneducated CEO or CTO would read about in a trade magazine and make the rash decision to implement it without talking to his engineering staff.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Physical DRM by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      then they buy a unit at any wall-mart, take it back to china, read the production firmware using a jtag cable, and they're back in the business

      --
      What ? Me, worry ?
    4. Re:Physical DRM by mikael · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem too different from the way mobile phones are locked to their network provider (Subsidy passwords), where each phone has a eight digit combination to prevent it from being used with other SIM cards.

      But the simplest solution for the foreign manufacturer, would be to disable the bit of the chip that creates the random 64-bit digit code in the first place (cut out its power or clock line). Then the 64-bit digit code will be all zeros or ones, and only one code needs to be guessed.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    5. Re:Physical DRM by spathi-wa · · Score: 1

      They can just read the production firmware using a laptop in a van parked outside the walmart and then email it to china using free wifi

    6. Re:Physical DRM by phcrack · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's been a while since I worked with JTAG, but IIRC you can set a flag on most implementations that disables reading the firmware out. All you can do is install new firmware or delete what's in there at that moment. If you could just get the firmware out of most chips, the Linux driver problem wouldn't exist the way it does.

    7. Re:Physical DRM by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you could just get the firmware out of most chips, the Linux driver problem wouldn't exist the way it does. Really, it'snot that difficult to get at the firmware. The difference between the unpaid, unfunded Linux crowd and a Chinese chip fab is that the chip fab has dozens of paid specialists in that very field to work on it full time, plus millions of dollars worth of expensive lab equipment, plus a huge financial incentive to crack it.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    8. Re:Physical DRM by Chapter80 · · Score: 1
      VERY nice troll.... I'll bite.

      There is a reason that Grey market chips get made of popular chips. Because the manufacturers are price whores and get them made at the cheapest plant in China. how about not paying the executive staff obscene salaries for their useless butts and have the items made in a location that is reputable and trustworthy?
      OK, so somehow you have made the leap that the fault of theft is the owner. If those bastards didn't make so much money, then people wouldn't steal. And gang violence is the fault of the wealthy. I see. hmm...

      Executive salaries and chip prices are determined by market forces. Perhaps if you feel strongly that executives should work for less money, you should become as qualified as they are, and then accept an executive position, but demand a minuscule salary.

      Until you do that, or someone (ANYONE!) does that, your argument is absurd.

    9. Re:Physical DRM by Jherico · · Score: 1

      Problem is it wont fly. Chips are made to be as cheap as possible. Paying a licensing fee and then requiring the damn thing to be on the internet to be activated is not only stupid but completely unmarketable.
      The thing is, this isn't for consumers. This is a measure to avoid theft in between chip manufacturing and retail device manufacturers. If the cost of adding this functionality is less than the cost of this kind of loss then its going to be adopted, and the only people it will really affect are Intel and Dell (or any other combination of chip manufacturer and retailer.

      The piracy being discussed her is ACTUAL physical piracy, so all the knee-jerk anti-DRM rhetoric is just stupid.

      --

      Jherico

      What can the average user can do to ensure his security? "Nothing, you're screwed"

    10. Re:Physical DRM by el+americano · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right, executives aren't over paid. Stockholders are never surprised and outraged by the amount of money these same people walk away with after they're fired. I'm sure they also don't force mergers and other transactions that are in their own self-interest, but against the company's interest. There's no in-crowd who support and encourage these pay structures in the hope of cashing in themselves one day. But most of all, I know for a fact that the majority of these people are not overpaid for the value they add to their companies.

      In any case, if I'm not a CEO myself, I clearly have no room to talk.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    11. Re:Physical DRM by ultranova · · Score: 1

      OK, so somehow you have made the leap that the fault of theft is the owner.

      What theft ? The issue talked about here is copying of blueprints, not theft.

      And gang violence is the fault of the wealthy.

      Actually, since gang violence only becomes a problem in certain social conditions and since in our current social model money equals power, this is exactly so. You can't simultaneously wield power and disclaim responsibility from social problems.

      Executive salaries and chip prices are determined by market forces.

      So is the popularity of pirated products. Places like the Pirate Bay exist because there is a demand for them, as do cheap cloned chips. Gotta love the real free market, free from copyrights and patents, with prices nearing the marginal cost of production asymptotically, and sometimes even reaching it; but for some reason, the so-called pro-free market people tend to start crying "regulate ! Copyrights ! Patents !" at that point :(.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    12. Re:Physical DRM by Chapter80 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The issue talked about here is copying of blueprints, not theft.
      Perhaps you didn't see the 5th word in the summary: "Pirated microchips based on stolen blueprints..."

      Actually, since gang violence only becomes a problem in certain social conditions and since in our current social model money equals power, this is exactly so.
      Oh dear God, it's frightening that any sane person believes this. I suppose you would advocate locking up the rich victim of any gang violence. Or why just victims - why not all people over a certain level of wealth - let's lock them up? There was a gang shooting downtown; better arrest the mayor.

      Gotta love the real free market, free from copyrights and patents, with prices nearing the marginal cost of production asymptotically, and sometimes even reaching it; but for some reason, the so-called pro-free market people tend to start crying "regulate ! Copyrights ! Patents !" at that point :(.
      As much as people on Slashdot tend to want patent reform, I only see an occasional few advocate total removal of patents and copyrights. Has there ever been a "controlled experiment" (as much as that is possible) comparing a "totally free market" to one with the "rule of law" including patents and copyrights, such that we can compare the rates of innovation in this society? I know of none - the closest I can think of is Open Source Software. The rate of innovation in Open Source software vs. Proprietary software hasn't been very impressive in my opinion. (I'd like to see a study, but my gut feel is that proprietary software beats open source software 1000 to 1, in quantity and 'contribution to society', however that would be measured.)
    13. Re:Physical DRM by VoidCrow · · Score: 1

      Given widespread availability of *good* hardware compilation tools, providing a C++, Java, C# level of abstraction to the actual hardware, reverse engineering will only have to take place at the level of the interfaces between chips. This is just a matter of time. DRM-like measures are just pissing in the wind.

    14. Re:Physical DRM by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      You're as guilty of stereotyping as any common racist who hassles strangers coming into 'his' bar.

    15. Re:Physical DRM by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Has there ever been a "controlled experiment" (as much as that is possible) comparing a "totally free market" to one with the "rule of law" including patents and copyrights, such that we can compare the rates of innovation in this society?

      There was a long term experiment of that sort. The people in the eastern hemisphere (Europe) can be compared to the people in the western hemisphere (North America) in about the year 1450.

    16. Re:Physical DRM by qoncept · · Score: 0

      'Yep, "great"!

      .. soon to be cracked, by a great army of brilliant chinese/taiwanese/ukranian etc.. teenagers ...'

      Don't worry. I fixed that for you.

      --
      Whale
    17. Re:Physical DRM by MobileMrX · · Score: 1
      I would agree that in this case the fault of the theft is the owner's. The first or second or third time a company sends its chips to be made in China and finds its chip/product copied/stolen, fine -- that's not the owner's fault. But once you know that's what is going to happen and you continue to do it anyway, it's hard to convince me that a) you care the stuff is being stolen or b) you aren't an idiot.

      Warning: Analogy to follow

      If I hire a cheap cleaning service for my house and they steal something, I fire the cleaning service and then take them to court. I do not say "Ahhh! Damn cleaning service! I can't believe you stole my stuff! Be here next week though, my house is dirty and your service is cheap!" At that point I would be accepting the theft as part of the cost of the service, which isn't so much "theft" anymore.

    18. Re:Physical DRM by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      Stupid questions:

      You obviously need to store the key in the chip to unlock it.

      How hard is it to read the key from an unlocked chip?

      What prevents the key from decaying over time, or static from scrambling the key? Are these chips going to have a short lifetime because of this?

      Will my toaster refuse to work if it isn't plugged into the internet?

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    19. Re:Physical DRM by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      .. soon to be cracked, by a great army of brilliant chinese/taiwanese/etc.. engineers,
      specialized in getting to know how everything works.


      That is the irony, the pirates will have worked out how crack the system, while legitimate users will be cursing through their teeth as to why their $200 CPU is not working. Not helping things is that the contact number is on the CD, along with the manual, looking very useless.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    20. Re:Physical DRM by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you didn't see the 5th word in the summary: "Pirated microchips based on stolen blueprints..."

      The summary does, indeed, contain an error. I know, it is almost inconceivable, Slashdot being world-famous for the high standards of its editors.

      Actually, since gang violence only becomes a problem in certain social conditions and since in our current social model money equals power, this is exactly so.

      Oh dear God, it's frightening that any sane person believes this. I suppose you would advocate locking up the rich victim of any gang violence. Or why just victims - why not all people over a certain level of wealth - let's lock them up? There was a gang shooting downtown; better arrest the mayor.

      There are no gang shootings downtown here in Finland, and no other kind of significant gang-related violent activity. So either we Finns are fundamentally better people than Americans, or our social structure discourages this kind of behavior. Those are the logical alternatives

      As for your strawman:

      1. I didn't say that victims of gang violence should be locked up. Where did you get that idea ?
      2. The victims of gang violence tend to be members of other gangs or random passersby. The rich people typically live apart from gang-infested neighborhoods, and as such are less, not more, likely to be victims than the poor.
      3. If gang violence arises from social conditions, as seems likely, then it is indeed the fault of those who created these conditions. In capitalist societies, that means the wealthy. Can you show any actual errors in this logic, rather than make up absurd propositions and "presuming" I advocate them ?
      4. If there are shootings downtown significantly often, then that hints that the mayor might not be quite up to his task of managing the city, and perhaps should be replaced.

      As much as people on Slashdot tend to want patent reform, I only see an occasional few advocate total removal of patents and copyrights. Has there ever been a "controlled experiment" (as much as that is possible) comparing a "totally free market" to one with the "rule of law" including patents and copyrights, such that we can compare the rates of innovation in this society?

      Wild West comes to mind, as does early American history generally. Arguably, it was the freedom from patents and copyrights which allowed fast progression of industry and culture back then, since the enterpreneurs could newest technologies from Europe without having to pay anyone anything. Of course the same lawlessness allowed some pretty nasty abuses of people in general and workers in particular.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    21. Re:Physical DRM by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Informative

      it dont work that way. most chips that are programmable can be designed to not allow a reverse load. Hell all PIC chips allow me to lock them. Then you need to grind the surface off and try and read what the flash portion is set to with an electron microscope.

      It aint that easy, most current production chips have protection for this built in.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    22. Re:Physical DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice reverse troll. I'll bite back for the OP.. You deserve it for your level if stupidity.

      If Executives got sane pay, a lot more money would be available to use HONEST companies that cost more (honesty from a vendor is expensive. most of the time 60-100% more expensive.) typically a HUGE chunk of operating cash is tied up in Ridiculous pay and bonuses (No executive deserves a fricking bonus unless he DOUBLES a company's profits.) So yes it IS the company's fault for getting their IP stolen. They cheap out have have a den of thieves make their product for peanuts. DUH.

      Are you as stupid as the average CEO? cant you see that having the corner thief make your product is a BAD IDEA?

  2. Sure, great idea by KublaiKhan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Presuming that there's a constant internet connection, that the manufacturer's server is incapable of being cracked and maintains at least 5-9's uptime, and that anyone's stupid enough to buy a crippled chip with this on it.

    --
    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
    A stately pleasure dome decree
    1. Re:Sure, great idea by bkaul01 · · Score: 5, Informative
      It doesn't sound like this is a consumer-level activation, but a one-time, manufacturer-side process:

      To activate a chip, the manufacturer would plug it in and let it contact the patent owner over an ordinary phone line or internet connection. It's intended to protect against overseas subcontractors who have access to the blueprints making extras and then going and selling them on the black market, behind the patent-holder's back. So, the overseas company would make it, ship it back to the company who owns the rights to it, where it would be activated before being distributed. The outsourced manufacturing company wouldn't have the ability to activate them, so couldn't sell extras to the black market.
    2. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's how it starts, but that's not how it would end. Think of how much the government or any power abusing company seeking more of that would be on this like FOS. Especially if it becomes commonly manufactured. Not that this is 100%, but I wouldn't see a situation like this technology being force trickled on consumers to be completely unlikely either.

      We've had it before, I believe it was called trusted computing. Boy do people love how that has turned out, if I recall correctly.

      I understand that a processor blueprint is not something that people want compromised. Throwing a technical attempt to solve the problem rather than dealing with human error is just putting the blame in the wrong places and throwing stuff at the wall hoping things will stick.

    3. Re:Sure, great idea by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The outsourced manufacturing company wouldn't have the ability to activate them, so couldn't sell extras to the black market.

      However, since they have the blueprints to the chips, they can find the sections of the schematic that implement this activation system, create a slightly modified die where they're masked out to always return an "authorized" status, and sell THOSE pirate chips on the black market.

    4. Re:Sure, great idea by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Slightly better, but still dodgy in my mind. If someone wants to counterfeit a chip design, then it'll be counterfeited--if by nothing else, then by someone with access to an electron microscope and a solid background in chip design theory, or by someone getting hold of a few of the 'unlocked' chips and reverse-engineering 'em that way.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    5. Re:Sure, great idea by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't sound like this is a consumer-level activation, but a one-time, manufacturer-side process:

      Yeah, though it's still pretty silly.

      The outsourced manufacturing company wouldn't have the ability to activate them, so couldn't sell extras to the black market.

      Since the whole problem is that the outsourced manufacturing company has the layout (blueprint), then they certainly would be able to activate the chip by removing the "lock" circuitry from the layout and manufacturing chips which require no activation! It may be a non-trivial task to reverse-engineer which parts of the chip are responsible, but if the money is there it is certainly possible and would be worth it.

      In other words this lock would only exist on the legitimate parts, and wouldn't exist on the bootleg ones, and the bootleg chips would operate exactly like an "activated" legitimate part.

      I think it's kind of ironic that the acronym EPIC was also the acronym used to describe the Itanium's IA-64 instruction set (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing). Though I doubt this one will even make it out of academia.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's intended to protect against overseas subcontractors who have access to the blueprints making extras and then going and selling them on the black market, behind the patent-holder's back.

      That is until the manufacturers discover it is far more lucrative to continue making the chips without this technology, selling it without the patent holders consent, and then hiring off the key brains in the patent holder's company to produce newer tech for the manufacturers. Checkmate. The transfer of America's technological dominance reaches its final stages. Patent holders need their labor far worse than the manufacturers need the patent holder's permission.

    7. Re:Sure, great idea by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      I think it's kind of ironic that the acronym EPIC was also the acronym used to describe the Itanium's IA-64 instruction set (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing).

      And then there's the Faith No More song with that name, which succinctly describes the attitude of the manufacturers who would back this system, as well as the response from users opposed to it:

      "You want it all but you can't have it."

    8. Re:Sure, great idea by bkaul01 · · Score: 1

      Since the whole problem is that the outsourced manufacturing company has the layout (blueprint), then they certainly would be able to activate the chip by removing the "lock" circuitry from the layout and manufacturing chips which require no activation! It may be a non-trivial task to reverse-engineer which parts of the chip are responsible, but if the money is there it is certainly possible and would be worth it. Making evasion a non-trivial task is all any protection or encryption scheme can hope to do. How nontrivial it is made is the key factor.
    9. Re:Sure, great idea by x_MeRLiN_x · · Score: 1

      Human error? I don't see it. Chips need to be manufactured elsewhere and you therefore have to trust the manufacturer with your blueprints. They'll either steal from you or they won't. How can that be the fault of the patent owner?

    10. Re:Sure, great idea by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      The stuff's mostly made in China now, so the risk of theft is, well, very high. There's no effective way to penalize a criminal subcontractor (not that what they're doing is exactly criminal in China to begin with) so this is maybe a reasonable thing to do. Doesn't matter in the long run: they won't need us for much longer anyway.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    11. Re:Sure, great idea by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      How can that be the fault of the patent owner?

      I dunno, maybe it's their fault for getting the chips made by the lowest bidder in a country that doesn't respect IP laws.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    12. Re:Sure, great idea by DHalcyon · · Score: 1

      For which you need people capable of doing that, who have to be paid. That might not cost as much as developing a new circuit from scratch altogether, but it _might_ be enough to make the pirating just not worth it.

    13. Re:Sure, great idea by Some_Llama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "In other words this lock would only exist on the legitimate parts, and wouldn't exist on the bootleg ones, and the bootleg chips would operate exactly like an "activated" legitimate part."

      in other words, like every existing anti piracy mechanism to date.

    14. Re:Sure, great idea by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I don't see how it would work. Those same manufacturers have need to test that the chips work every few minutes. There's no way to stop them from figuring it out when they have access to the prints and the manufacturing equipment!

      Realize that it's the LITTLE, high-profit customers (designers, hobbiests, etc) of the chips and their manufacturers that would suffer when they scrounge the supplier network for any available chip and need a special reader to use it you'll get blacklisted faster than you can blink. It could work if you wanted everybody to buy the chip from you (and it could be properly tested by the manufacture without the code) then you would have to run the whole lot of chips thru the manual process of burning them. If it's programmable, that's probably not too bad, but you'll have to set up shop for YOU to do it and not contract it. Or they'll just tell the contractor to burn the extras too!

    15. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Honestly, if its not human error then explain how any information can be leaked here. Was it magical? Did someone put it on a laptop and lose it?

      Information doesn't disseminate itself. Someone has to start it. Who said it was the fault of the patent owner? It's not a matter of fault at all. The fault is not relevant even remotely.

      I said it was a human controllable situation, not something of a technology solution. Aka it is the manufacturer who is at fault here, and whose responsibility is it to find a trustworthy manufacturer? The patent owner's. Who has initial control of the information before it is disseminated? The patent owner. You can of course, make the manufacturer sign agreements to make sure that it is their responsibility to secure your blueprints too. I wonder if people actually thought of that, too?

      So once again, remind me who has control of the situation? Last I checked, the patent owner does and therefore, bears the responsibility regardless of fault.

    16. Re:Sure, great idea by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Making evasion a non-trivial task is all any protection or encryption scheme can hope to do. How nontrivial it is made is the key factor.

      Except this really has nothing to do with the encryption. It has to do with a manufacturer deciding not to build the encryption into the product. All they have to is identify the signal that decides whether the chip "activates" and tie it to vdd. It's like if you're talking about the lock on a safe, and you said "well no lock is perfect", but the fact is that the person you're trying to keep out of the safe is the safe maker themselves; they can just make a safe with no lock.

      What I'm saying is that while it may be "non-trivial" it is certainly easy enough for a company with the resources to fabricate fine-featured silicon chips to do in a short period of time.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    17. Re:Sure, great idea by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in other words, like every existing anti piracy mechanism to date.

      Yes, but it's actually even worse. Because with normal DRM, you're trying to keep the guy who is watching the DVD from being able to copy the DVD.

      But in this case, it's actually like you're trying to keep the guy who is making the DVD from being able to copy it. They don't even have to break your DRM or work around it, they just have to decide not to build it in.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    18. Re:Sure, great idea by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      (first time posting because I'm bored)

      Couldn't they just make a copy of the 'locked' chip (I'd never believe it would work like they say) and intercept the information sent to the chip, and just play that back to the copies?

      I don't know how this chip copying works, but if they stick it under a microscope or something and copy it straight from that, then shouldn't they have the resources to bypass the 'lock' anyways?

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    19. Re:Sure, great idea by x_MeRLiN_x · · Score: 4, Informative

      You seem to be missing the fact that the patent owner (who this is designed to protect) is a completely separate entity from the manufacturer. The manufacturer is nothing more than a subcontractor. The manufacturer obviously requires the blueprints to produce the chip. It is the manufacturer who is selling the patent owner's chips on the black market. Nothing is being "leaked". You can bet your life that the "signed agreements" you mention are without exception already in place. They're just being flouted.

      Others who responded to my post have argued that you therefore shouldn't hire Chinese or other cheap chip production plants, because they are well known for failing to respect intellectual property and you have no possible recourse against them.

      The thing is, businesses are always going to opt for the cheapest option. If this technological measure is cheaper than opting for a more expensive, "trustworthy" producer, then I don't think you have a case against it. This doesn't harm consumers in any way shape or form, simply because it doesn't involve them. The restrictions will have already been removed long before it reaches their hands.

    20. Re:Sure, great idea by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I was thinking they could just copy the EXTRA Drm switches too and fool a legitimate chip.

    21. Re:Sure, great idea by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe the answer is to stop outsourcing.

    22. Re:Sure, great idea by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. You didn't even bother to RTFA. That or you are a dumbass. To be honest, I think it is be both.

      The chip is activated after manufacture but before shipping to the consumer. After it is activated, it never has to contact the patent holder again.

      This is a technology to stop industrial espionage and has nothing to do with DRM or trusted computing.

      Now, please, stop being a reactionary dumbass and STFU.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    23. Re:Sure, great idea by asuffield · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For which you need people capable of doing that, who have to be paid. That might not cost as much as developing a new circuit from scratch altogether, but it _might_ be enough to make the pirating just not worth it.


      Unlikely. The need to employ actual mechanics has never been a problem for people running chop shops.

      Removing a generic feature from a chip design just isn't that hard. If you make it hard to remove, it won't be generic any more, and it will significantly add to the cost of developing each chip (already huge) - so nobody is going to do that.
    24. Re:Sure, great idea by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      But if they have "blueprints", they could just work around the 'lock'.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    25. Re:Sure, great idea by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      That's part of it. What's really been happening these past couple of decades is a multi-trillion-dollar transfer of commercial and military technology to China. That needs to stop (but it won't, China has us by the short-and-curly and besides, our government is too corrupt to realize that it's going to get us all killed) but it's already far too late. We've bootstrapped them into the 21st century: we should have held on to what we know and made them pay for it just as dearly as we did. Instead (for reasons I haven't yet figured out) we just gave everything to them.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    26. Re:Sure, great idea by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      Um...They have the blueprints.
      Why cant they just remove the DRM?

    27. Re:Sure, great idea by kesuki · · Score: 3, Informative

      this involves cryptography. let's say that you use 128-bit encryption that's 128 gates per bit of the key/unlock mechanism. 128 gates is nothing on a large, say graphic processor, even 20,000 gates is nothing on a large graphic or general purpose cpu. so how are you going to crack this when each chip has it's own key/lock pair? and the 'key' pair, only goes across a trusted network in another country?

      yeah, this isn't dvd movie crypto where the 'client' has to have access to a way to decrypt the movie.

      this is the kind of crypto that can't be broken without a backdoor. of course since epic is built into the original chip blue print, just 'masking off that part' renders in a cpu that only spits out 'error, epic not found, halt now' that locks the chip from running. depending on how the chip maker designs this into chips, it's not like they can just engineer a 'mod chip' that tells the cpu everything is okay and to run code... the cost of trying to circumvent 'epic' instantly becomes more than you'd get for say, a pirate dvd player chip.

      this is a big deal, really big, because right now sub standard dvd players around the globe are using 'pirate' chips, and usually 'pirate' code to run those chips. Prior to epic they were resorting to programming the firmware of retail dvd players to try and thwart piracy, but then the pirates just waited for a system to come out with the 'real' chip, and steal the firmware so they could program the pirate players themselves. or even worse just program them with 'firmware' downloaded off the net from god only knows the source..

      epic will be used by countless dvd and blu-ray chip fabs, so they can benefit from low cost Chinese fabrication, and never have to worry about the design being stolen again.

      i've tried to think of ways to break epic, but if it's on chip, tearing apart the chip to see what gets written on chip (especially if it's Different For Every chip) isn't going to work, a mod chip solution could work, but then you need to design a special chip, that only works with revision x. of the 'real' chip, and the cost of doing this is going to be somewhere in the $50 per modchip if you only sell a few hundred thousand of the pirate chip... the cost goes down if you sell millions of units, but most pirate chip stuff is so substandard that it only gets bought when it's 'carrying' a name brand that it isn't, and they do try their best to catch that kind of fraud.... and a big old mod-chip that isn't in the 'real' system makes it a really easy spot for guys with x-ray viewers to screen the stuff. so then you have to hide the 'mod-chip' as say a flash reader

      so yeah, epic will very likely reduce the amount of counterfeit dvd players etc. of course, they can always just counterfeit the pre-epic designs, but better blu-ray designs are going to come along, and those will all (i'm guessing) feature epic.

    28. Re:Sure, great idea by droopycom · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Read the paper. http://www.cse.umich.edu/~imarkov/pubs/conf/date08-epic.pdf.

      The chip generate a unique Private Key when first powering up. The matching Public Key is sent to the IP holder for activation. Supposedly there is no way to force a chip to generate a known private key without modifying the masks.

      Modifying the mask (blueprint) using a "microscope" (or other techniques), is much more difficult that just putting the original mask in the machine and churning out a few thousands of chips.

    29. Re:Sure, great idea by severoon · · Score: 1

      Normally, in any system concerned with locking something down, there is no module that simply reports an "authorized" status. It is far more likely that the proper function of this chip depends directly upon the particular configuration of switches achieved by the cryptographically strong exchange of information with the patent owner. In other words, if the patent owner hands back the right info, the chip configures those gates in a particular fashion, and all other operation of the chip depends upon that particular configuration. Furthermore, the configuration could be done such that proper operation in the rest of the chip is effectively a one-way hash condition. That is, even if you understand the behavior you're trying to achieve in the rest of the chip and are permitted many trials to observe if that behavior occurs, it's still very, very difficult to infer the proper configuration from repeated trials, observation of results, and comparison of expected results.

      Either that, or: the guys that came up with this thing are extremely stupid and I just divulged an awesome, patentable idea in a public forum.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    30. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Hey, Thanks for the flame. In case you're wondering, I did indeed read the article. What I said I mean as I said it. This is a human controllable problem, not something that is fixed by manufacturing a control on the chip. If the leaks are stopped then this "magic security method" is never necessary. Who is to say that this "activated after manufacture but before shipped to consumer" method cannot somehow be activated again? Surely we can just be forced to trust the patent holder, right? Surely we can trust the manufacturer as well right? I mean after all, we can't see anything going on so certainly it must be trustworthy.

      See, if someone had a contract that would hold manufacturers accountable for the data loss as I said in other replies, I'm sure they'd put a lot more effort and watching into whether a blueprint has been leaked. After all, there aren't that many processor manufacturers out there, so how hard would it be to pin down considering you know who you give it out to? Industrial espionage means something has been stolen. Obviously that would mean there is insufficient security on the BLUEPRINT by the PATENT OWNER. There are more important things here than just physical security as I have mentioned in this reply that can stop that loss.

      This is what we call a lack of basic due dilligence here. Being lost at this point, this validation will cause unknown problems and will not fix the situation. Who is to believe that this new magic chip activation method won't be cracked just as easy by the imitation manufacturers? How is this to even stop a processor from functioning? That would require compliant motherboards. Who is to agree to let their motherboard be DRM'd? Oh yeah, wait, that might be trusted computing huh?

      Think before you flame people please. I don't need an ad hominem attack. Nice try though.

    31. Re:Sure, great idea by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      LOL, good point, it makes me wonder if the people who think up these "schemes" know what they are doing or if they are just trying to cash in on the terror felt by outdated business models.

      Every "anti-piracy' technique i have seen, hurts the legitimate "consumers" (i hate that word) but does nothing to deter those who would "pirate", in fact, the pirated versions are way less cumbersome. (and now will be slightly cheaper to produce)

      This seems to take this idiotic idea one step further and no closer to truly securing "IP".

      *shakes head*

    32. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The reason: to compete with other american companies, some american companies used trade secrets, etc... to pay them, instead of cash. China was just too smart to take just cash that would have left them American slaves. The other alternative was not dealing with the Chinese at all.

    33. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do understand what you're saying, but no, this is still on the patent owner. From the last sentence you said sums up the answer: The thing is, businesses are always going to opt for the cheapest option.

      Whose fault is that? Why should anyone other than the business that makes that decision (aka patent owner) bear the brunt of that responsibility? Why should a manufacturer add a cost to their process and what incentive do they have to do so? Answer: none whatsoever.

      It is the patent owner's responsibility to do whatever recourse is necessary to prevent the situation from happening. Doing things because they are cheaper doesn't mean you can just wipe away all the liability or responsibility. Just because for example, I manufacture using method A because its cheaper than method B doesn't take away any responsibility I have for choosing method A and the results thereafter. However, instead of accepting that responsibility I add a costly process to the manufacturer that is neither realistic nor even guaranteed to help a single drop in this scenario.

      What are we, supposed to be sympathetic to a patent owner who made a bad business decision? Whose responsibility is that again, exactly? The market is not sympathetic, neither is the consumer market, neither is the manufacturer, and neither am I.

    34. Re:Sure, great idea by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      You make it sound so simple. Making an IC microchip is not like making a loaf of bread.

      Microchips are created by creating a programming design. This design is then turned into a mask (a very complicated process) which is then used in the lithography to create the IC. Then after you get the engineering samples you spend months figuring out where your mask is recreating the programming wrong, then make the second revision with a new mask that you then more than likely use. Taking the mask (which the manufacturer has) and turning it back into the programing code so you can figure out what transistors and circuits to modify and then creating a new mask that you debug then create another mask so you can create new chips without the circuits is NOT trivial. Not only won't they be exact copies, it would be extremely laborious and very expensive to do as it would require many many hours by highly qualified and very intelligent EE's who have worked in the IC design for many years. The larger the circuit the more complicated and time consuming reverse engineering the mask would be. On complicated designs it would probably take longer than the revision cycle of the chip to properly reverse engineer. Unless there is some coordinated government need and outside funding the fabs engaged in this will be unable to make extra chips because they don't have the resources to do the reverse engineering required and stay in business. Again you won't stop a highly coordinated state effort to remove the lock but the outsource Fab's likely wouldn't be able to do it.

      This is important to preserving high paid jobs, the more chips produced by the fabs and sold on the blackmarket the more the companies producing the chips are hurt. The ideal solution in my mind is to build the fabs in the US, the problem is the unfair trade conditions that make it more expensive to produce in the US. Until the currency and trade imbalance is corrected China will continue to dominate manufacturing, but anything we can do to stop them from black marketing over production the better. I imagine companies like nVidia and others that use foreign fabs will start using this technology immediately.

    35. Re:Sure, great idea by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

      What you've described is an on-chip dongle.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    36. Re:Sure, great idea by emmons · · Score: 1

      Once you consider that setting up a new line costs on the order of several million dollars, you'll see why it's unlikely they'd do that. The volume of pirated chips the rogue fab would have to sell to recover their costs would probably get them caught.

      --
      Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
    37. Re:Sure, great idea by jeffstar · · Score: 1

      i thought information wanted to be free?

    38. Re:Sure, great idea by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Reason the technology was given away was stupidity driven by greed. When you put a bunch of sociopaths in control of government and corporations it is all about how well their immediate lusts can be satisfied, their greed and desire for more money, power and self gratification.

      They do not care about anything at all except themselves, even the families are nothing more than accoutrements and decorations, pets to fulfil their own egos.

      Just the same in this case, the people who cam up with this technology absolutely do not care how the technology will be abused in future, as long as they perceive it will feed their immediate myopic greed.

      They are going to get the cheapest contractors, who absolutely can not be trusted, to supply the chips at the lowest possible price. Those contractors of course do this by paying workers slave wages, cheating their own suppliers and having an absolutely disregard for how much they pollute the environment with their production processes. Of course these contractors also currently supplement their income by producing additional chips and distributing them via alternate more profitable channels.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    39. Re:Sure, great idea by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Precisely. The Chinese are NOT dunces when it comes to reverse engineering chip designs or other technology to get around restrictions. Why do people suppose that the US government was so concerned about our spy aircraft falling into their hands in even a semi-intact state? They will bypass these restrictions just as easily as a hot knife bypasses a lock made of butter which it might as well be for all the good that this "lock" will do.

    40. Re:Sure, great idea by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

      "Who is to say that this "activated after manufacture but before shipped to consumer" method cannot somehow be activated again? Surely we can just be forced to trust the patent holder, right? Surely we can trust the manufacturer as well right? I mean after all, we can't see anything going on so certainly it must be trustworthy."

      This is pure idiocy. When you buy, say a Core 2 Duo, you have to trust Intel that the chip will in fact work. If it doesn't, or it later breaks, you can perhaps sue Intel, but basically, you're screwed. Intel has a reputation, and screwing even every single owner of a Core 2 processor today would definitely not be in their long-term best interest. But they do make mistakes, they're only human, and they deal with those mistakes when they happen.

      If this mechanism breaks, it will be just like any other problem with a chip. The manufacturer will make it right and/or get sued, and learn their lesson. But as designed, it protects against a very real problem, industrial espionage and black market chips.

    41. Re:Sure, great idea by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about this being a problem on any Intel chip. Intel manufactures their own chips, so they have no need for this silliness. This is only for "fabless" companies.

      Intel's not the greatest company around, but at least they're smart enough to do their own manufacturing, since their chips are always at the cutting-edge of semiconductor technology.

    42. Re:Sure, great idea by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you put a bunch of sociopaths in control of government and corporations it is all about how well their immediate lusts can be satisfied, their greed and desire for more money, power and self gratification.

      Unfortunately, the capitalistic and democratic system we live under is inherently set up to reward sociopathic behavior, so those are the people who rise to the top in it.

      Not that this means capitalism and democracy should be abolished; Stalinist-style communism as practiced in North Korea, for instance, seems to reward absolute lunacy, and I guess I'd rather have sociopathic leaders than insane lunatic ones.

    43. Re:Sure, great idea by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      Yeah - but I bet that "unique" is probably not really so. It would be a non-trivial, but possible attack to either modify or "seed" the RNG with whatever we want.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    44. Re:Sure, great idea by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Every "anti-piracy' technique i have seen, hurts the legitimate "consumers" (i hate that word) but does nothing to deter those who would "pirate", in fact, the pirated versions are way less cumbersome. (and now will be slightly cheaper to produce)

      In this case, I don't think it hurts legitimate customers (I like that word better) any more than the current market of proprietary chips does. And I'm not really sure if it's possible for there to ever be an open chip community anything like the current open source community.

      I'm not sure it would actually work, but from the summary, it looks entirely harmless, other than the wasted effort spent developing it. Not at all like DRM on media, which actually prevents legitimate uses that customers might have.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    45. Re:Sure, great idea by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Not really. Wwhn you look at the 50s through to the 70s when people communicate the sociopaths are exposed for who they are. Without the cover of corrupt mass media, and bullshit PR, democracy can quite readily handle them.

      However as demonstrated by the eighties and nineties as well as the early 2000s corrupt centralised mass media is used yo effectively camouflages the sociopaths and allow them to remain in positions and gain even higher positions where they can do extreme harm. The internet is starting to become the most effective tool in exposing them and bringing them down.

      Stalin and Mao where sociopaths with complete autocratic control and the only place a socipath belongs is in an institution that can restrict their behaviour and prevent them from doing harm to others. Society simply needs to make the effort to detect them as early as possible, so that the cheneys, bushes and ballmers of the world are restricted to occupational therapy in controlled environments, weaving baskets, crocheting beanies or something similar.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    46. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      This situation obviously doesn't apply to Intel. They release new processors at a speed enough that even people duplicating the processor will be behind on technology. DRM on a processor is no better than DRM anywhere else. When are people going to learn this? Also, there's not a whole lot of info on this activation method. You really think its going to be not only reliable, but not able to be duplicated by the impostors over an extended period of time? Have you ever heard of a protection/control schema that actually works of this type of control? You think china would care the minute they get their hands on a single chip? Doubted.

    47. Re:Sure, great idea by DeadChobi · · Score: 1

      As responsible citizens, then, we need to ensure that when they get their needs met, we also get our needs met. There's no easy method for that.

      --
      SRSLY.
    48. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have it on good authority from someone who worked in a company that created a very successful 8 core chip. They had one product they created entirely reverse engineered by having the Chinese just scalp the chips. They then had to re-create the entire thing from scratch to then start turning out the chips.

      While it may seem like it is something that would take a lot of time and would be hard to do, it is not hard for a motivated Chinese company. It happens all to often that entire chips are reverse engineered, and then sold really cheap.

    49. Re:Sure, great idea by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      What you fail to understand is that when you have the source to the chip (the blueprints) making a modified die without the phone home circuitry is trivial, and yes you have to produce another die ... but lets compare that to the cost of say ... designing your own core 2 quad processor ...

      This is a retarded way of trying to protect something. If you want to protect something like this, then you make it yourself so no one else knows anything about it, or you pay well enough that its not worth the risk to someone else. Or you watermark the circuit so you can tell which plant it came from, so at least you can cut them out in the future if you find they've just used your design without modification to do another run for themselves.

      This is just as dumb as expecting DRM'd music to stop piracy, actually more so, because you're also giving them the source code to the DRM and the ability to modify the original work without your help.

      Perfect example of someone who thinks they know security, but utterly failing to understand it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    50. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i thought information wanted to be free? Right, and China is hardly a bastion of freedom :)
    51. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, please, stop being a reactionary dumbass and STFU. STFU is that another of the 10million acronyms you idiots like to use?

      Try using english and someone might actually understand you.

    52. Re:Sure, great idea by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

      I think it can be made reliable and can be made very difficult to duplicate. This is not like DRM where you need to provide the same people access to the very information you are trying to hide from them. This is more like encryption where some people have the keys and some people don't. It's not so hard to hide the information from the people who don't have the keys.

      It's much harder to open up a chip and probe it than it is to probe software.

      Another important issue is the potential failure modes. Unlike DRM, this really doesn't have a failure mode that leaves consumers unable to use what they've paid for. The activation is one-time only and done before the consumer gets the product.

    53. Re:Sure, great idea by msromike · · Score: 1

      Right, that will fix the problem. No one will be able to afford the genuine product once it is made by a union card carrying worker making $35.00 per hour. The grey market versions would be even more in demand.

    54. Re:Sure, great idea by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "our government is too corrupt to realize that it's going to get us all killed"

      Despite all the FUD in the US, I find it very unlikely that China will ever do a first strike on the USA in the forseeable future (20 years).

      They might attack Taiwan, or nearby countries (they did Tibet), but I strongly doubt they'd attack USA (unless the US hits them first).

      Whereas from history it's pretty hard to rule out the USA striking first on any particular country around the world, or have the CIA mess the country up with coups and stuff look up the history of a fair number of South American countries, Middle Eastern countries etc.

      The offensive military capabilities of China aren't that great.

      The offensive military capabilities of the USA are pretty good, plus the USA has military bases "everywhere".

      The US citizens should be more afraid of the US Gov than China.

      --
    55. Re:Sure, great idea by msromike · · Score: 1

      Right. And that drive to excel is what makes them provide every better and more profitible goods and services for you to buy OR NOT BUY. If there wasn't a demand there would be no profit in supplying it. It really is an elegant system when left the hell alone. How do they do it where you live?

    56. Re:Sure, great idea by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I don't know about this. What about Lyndon Johnson? Surely he was a sociopath too; after all, he was the one that kept us in Vietnam after Kennedy was conveniently assassinated. Nixon sure looked like a sociopath too.

      As for "corrupt centralized mass media", that's not exactly something new either. William Hearst's publishing empire was notorious for not being completely unbiased.

    57. Re:Sure, great idea by davolfman · · Score: 1

      I'm not worried about the tech becoming a feature on consumer machines. Network connections are to interdependant on the hardware for it to ever be practical. The part I'd worry about is what happens when a random gamma ray or static shock hits the chip in the field and resets these switches? It creates a single fragile failure point for entire devices. Let the brickings commence!

    58. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Like before, I'm all for a successful method, if there is one. I can't say that in the case of a physical product expecting to be able to control all copies of it is reasonable. I'm not saying give up either, I just don't think trying to monitor the flow of the processors pre-purchase is going to work especially if these people are capable of selling to consumers anyway. Yes, I hate low quality crap imitations.

      But as I said before, where is this info? I really don't see any in the article that shows a successful method here.

      Making a phone home system is ridiculously easily faked. Example of the protocol level info exchange: (fake copy of processor) Hello proxy server? I'm a legitimate manufacturer and this processor is registered.

      Bing, faked. Approximate skill needed to crack? Script kiddie level at best. You don't ever need access to manufacturer info to do this, merely the capacity to copy the processors and a few days at most to explore the validation technique. Honestly anyone who thinks you can't dupe a validation procedure obviously knows nothing of windows, steam, video games, pay per view/cable tv hacking, or phone freaking, atm scams, or any other trick. All of these get around validation. Validation via a sever is not and never will be a method that works for any form of verification. Or a quick physical example: personal identification.

      AT some point there will be software involved with this unlocking, and at that point will be one of many potential weaknesses.

      Another reason? You can't get rid of legacy methods of verification for the processor because there may be manufacturers that do not have newer methods and will only create the processor using a legacy method.

      Really I can keep poking holes in this security all day, but nothing here shows me an even remotely fool proof method.

    59. Re:Sure, great idea by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      How did it turn out? I seem perfectly able to run whatever I want on my 2007 hardware, at the moment.

    60. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I do understand your sarcasm, but trusted computing was never really implemented except in vista. People balked at the idea pretty hard when it came around, and as you can imagine, people have had many problems with media in vista due to the "trusted DRM's content protection". Things such as downgrading HD content quality if it wasn't on an approved monitor, and this is not new. This stuff goes back before 2003 even .

      Note even in 2003 people knew what was going on as far as slashdot (See article comments).

      So tell me, how do you like the wonderful work microsoft, adobe, and the likes have done? Since Adobe has purchased shockwave hasn't it done a wonderful job of keeping up the shockwave name! How about Microsoft with Vista? Surely everyone loves that too.

      Sheesh. I know you know quite a bit, but I truly pity the people who don't see the wool in front of their eyes and just how much it affects them.

    61. Re:Sure, great idea by mazarin5 · · Score: 1

      Besides that, there is some point at which a certain sequence of inputs are going to have to be feed into the chip. How are they going to prevent that from being detected? Is each and every chip going to be uniquely encoded somehow? Again, they will still have to perform some process to do that, and it only needs to be caught once.

      --
      Fnord.
    62. Re:Sure, great idea by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thanx for the link.

      I don't know anything much about the physical side of chip masks and manufacturing, but I think I know enough reasonably review the crypto and chip programming logic of the plan.

      They spend almost the entire paper describing the system and how secure it is against the "front door attack". It is standard public key crypto. If you don't know the designer's private key then the chip is never going to invite you in the front door, end of story. For all intents and purposes it is mathematically impossible to break through the front door. I fully agree with them on that.

      Then oddly they spend quite a bit of time analyzing the "CK" key. The CK key is the same for all chips, and it lies right behind the front door. As they analyze it, yes I agree it is rather difficult to crack the CK if you're coming through the front door, BUT NONE OF THAT ANALYSIS MATTERS AT ALL. If you're coming through the front door it doesn't matter of whether can you figure out the CK or not because you can never feed the CK in through the absolutely impenetrable public key crypto front door. They could publish the "secret" CK key on the front page of the New York Times and it would not significantly alter the security of their plan.

      Now as I said I don't know anything much about the physical side of chip masks and manufacturing, but that's the back door. *IF* you can copy the mask creating an intelligently altered new mask, or if you can read the chip itself and create an intelligently altered new mask, then obtaining the CK is trivial (you could "activate" the chip as normal and have it TELL you the CK), and you can trivially remove or subvert the public key front door. The changes you need to make are fairly trivial to figure out.

      The paper spends almost zero time on this, other than to say it's enough hassle that piracy "may not pay off". I don't know much about the hardware side of doing it this way, but the back door sure seems wide open to me, and they themselves describing that attack route "may not pay off" does not sound particularly strong to my ears.

      So, can anyone else here address this angle?
      Assume that you are a major industrial chip manufacturing plant with full expert staff and all of the usual major industrial support equipment, assume you are handed a chip mask, and assume your chip design experts know what kinds of wiring they want to cut or short-out. Just how difficult and expensive would it be to scan either chip or mask to human-examinable form, incorporate small easy identified changes, and to create the second unlocked mask?

      Because that is all that is relevant. The difficulty and cost of that back door route pretty well defines the entire strength of their plan.

      P.S.
      I love how on the page 3 diagram they represent the "Holder of Master Key and IP rights" as a gray bearded wizard in blue wizard cloak, complete with pointy hat. LOL.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    63. Re:Sure, great idea by expatriot · · Score: 1

      You seem to think that manufacturers have schematics or even RTL. Manufacturers get rectangles. A lot of them on multiple masks. Finding out which rectangle you could alter to disable the protection is not possible in practice.

    64. Re:Sure, great idea by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Well, 'bootstrapped' is an interesting term. Because it was us that pulled them up by their bootstraps. Do they have the muscle to actually stand up and remain balanced on their feet?

      China's government is too corrupt to do more than keep their own populace under control, so they can't really 'expand' their tyrrany. Freedom is a virus that they're really unable to deal with on a global level. And big doses of it have been released into their culture and it is spreading.

      You don't find that many intelligent skilled outsiders striving to emigrate to China. The outflow is in the opposite direction.

    65. Re:Sure, great idea by arose · · Score: 1

      But it does, customers get the expense of the locking mechanism passed on to them.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    66. Re:Sure, great idea by Spamalope · · Score: 1
      A firmware checksum against that region of the chip could make it very tough to make a chip that runs standard firmware. That could be enough to make the bootleg chips virtually worthless in the marketplace.

      If someone wants to counterfeit a chip design, then it'll be counterfeited--if by nothing else, then by someone with access to an electron microscope and a solid background in chip design theory
    67. Re:Sure, great idea by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it make more sense to put the DRM on the blueprints instead?

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    68. Re:Sure, great idea by JoelKatz · · Score: 2, Informative

      None of what you said makes any sense. This is not a "phone home system". It doesn't compare to cracking systems where you have control over the system during the validation process. Validation is not "via a server".

      It's this simple:

      1) The processor is manufactured.

      2) The fab customer receives the processors from the fab.

      3) The fab customer unlocks them.

      4) The fab customer pays the fab and sells/ships the processor.

      There is no opportunity for anyone to observe or tamper with the unlocking process. No validation is needed prior to unlocking because the fab customer will only unlock processors he has physical custody of.

    69. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I appreciate all your replies and the absence of flaming involved, but I'm not sure I agree with you.

      Who said anyone has to observe any part of the process? All you have to do is observe the completed processor and figure out whats going on. Since its a consumer or possibly business product, you buy 1 and figure it out. Usually people call this reverse engineering? How can you ensure if something is mass produced that you can discern which of your millions of customers bought a real one in order to make a fake one?

      How is that considered to be foolproof? Anyone with enough dedication/time/resources (some combination thereof) would be able to figure it out. That is the nature of true reverse engineering: it really can do anything if someone is determined.

      Also this "unlocking", what makes you think it really can't be figured out by examining a processor after it's done? How is this going to help them discern which is a fake and which is a real processor? Are they going to just seize people's computers and check them for the supposedly inactivated value?

      How is this supposed to stop theft/espionage, or stop the ability to make a fake processor that functions on a real motherboard? I do not feel you have explained to me the rationale of how this is supposed to stop fake copies or theft, or brand dilution on any level? I would like an answer to this paragraph the most, and I feel you have avoided it/not provided an answer.

      How is this part not understood? Do you think a processor is so complicated that someone who is manufacturing fake duplicate chips would not be able to understand it/figure it out? Obviously they have done one hell of a successful job at doing so already, so whats to stop them if the way a processor that they already produce has a different method now? They have even less to observe since they can simply compare the new processor to the old. Voila! Instead of having to check every single thing the processor can do, now they only have to check maybe 1-3% of things for a change.

    70. Re:Sure, great idea by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      That's where FDR came in :)

    71. Re:Sure, great idea by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

      Also this "unlocking", what makes you think it really can't be figured out by examining a processor after it's done?


      For the same reason you can't figure out how to decrypt something by looking at the plaintext. The dies will either be mounted before they're unlocked or will be mounted and unlocked in the same process in a trusted environment. The point is to secure the dies and the fab.

      How is this going to help them discern which is a fake and which is a real processor? Are they going to just seize people's computers and check them for the supposedly inactivated value?


      The fake processors will not be unlocked, the real ones will be. They will only unlock those processors that are returned to them by the fabrication plant. If the fabrication plant makes any "extras", they cannot sell them because they won't be unlocked.

      Why would they want to seize people's computers? A locked processor would be useless. An unlocked processor would have to be authentic (otherwise, they would not have unlocked it).

      How is this supposed to stop theft/espionage, or stop the ability to make a fake processor that functions on a real motherboard?


      It would stop theft because the stolen processors would not be unlocked. If you mean how would it stop theft of unlocked processors, it's not intended to. It's only intended to protect the process from the fab to the licensor.

      I do not feel you have explained to me the rationale of how this is supposed to stop fake copies or theft, or brand dilution on any level? I would like an answer to this paragraph the most, and I feel you have avoided it/not provided an answer.


      If the fab makes extra chips, they will not be unlocked. The fab will have no way to produce more working chips than the licensor allows. That's the whole point.

      From your questions, it sounds like you think this is supposed to do something later in the manufacturing/distribution chain than it does. This is designed to secure against the case where the fab makes extra chips, violating the license on the design and masks.
    72. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your reply.

      Thankfully, I think I understand what you are stating here. Can you clarify why a mounted die would not be able to be examined, modified, or reverse engineered? Are there no ways for people to examine a die post-process/post mounting? I am assuming you mean when the die is attached to the chip, right?

      Isn't having any form of random-looking information whatsoever, with or without a key in any situation how people can start to crack a cipher? I do understand that a cipher is a lot harder to crack than just mere processing power.

      Also, how would the fake processors be locked in the first place? If someone bought a real one with intent to duplicate fakes, how would those be locked down necessarily? Wouldn't that be all someone needs to start fabbing their own fakes, is a copy of the real?

    73. Re:Sure, great idea by fdisk3hs · · Score: 1

      "of course since epic is built into the original chip blue print, just 'masking off that part' renders in a cpu that only spits out 'error, epic not found, halt now' that locks the chip from running."
       
      If you have the chip blueprint, what is the problem? Cut out the "somehow use ip network to authenticate" part. Then start the fab.
       
      My momma always used to say, EPIC is is EPIC does.

    74. Re:Sure, great idea by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Manufacturers get rectangles.

      Yes, that's the layout. Those rectangles have meaning, e.g. a rectangle of the polysilicon layer crossing a rectangle of the active layer is a transistor, and by the type of doping layer rectangle its in you know whether it's a p or n. Going from a layout to a schematic is simple, that's how LVS (layout versus schematic) works to verify that the layout is in fact the same circuitry as your schematic.

      So finding which "rectangle" to alter to disable protection is really the same as finding which "transistor" or "signal" to disable, and is quite possible in practice. Not-trivial, but certainly not out of line for anyone who can afford a high tech fab in the first place.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    75. Re:Sure, great idea by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

      Thankfully, I think I understand what you are stating here. Can you clarify why a mounted die would not be able to be examined, modified, or reverse engineered? Are there no ways for people to examine a die post-process/post mounting? I am assuming you mean when the die is attached to the chip, right?


      There are a variety of ways to make is extremely difficult to probe a die once it's mounted in the final chip assembly. One of the simplest is to use an epoxy coating that is bonded to the die.

      Isn't having any form of random-looking information whatsoever, with or without a key in any situation how people can start to crack a cipher? I do understand that a cipher is a lot harder to crack than just mere processing power.


      I suppose you can argue that any cryptographic scheme will have weaknesses of some kind. But it's a terrible logical fallacy to argue that therefore no cryptographic scheme will achieve its practical intended result. This is a scheme that will almost certainly have no practical cryptographic weaknesses primarily because the requirements are so simple. There is no opportunity to observe the unlocking processes because it need only be performed in a trusted environment.

      Also, how would the fake processors be locked in the first place? If someone bought a real one with intent to duplicate fakes, how would those be locked down necessarily? Wouldn't that be all someone needs to start fabbing their own fakes, is a copy of the real?


      The die would include the lock, and the lock would not be an on/off switch but a mechanism that blocks real functional elements. The idea would be to make it as difficult as possible to separate the lock from the functional elements. Thus the difficulty involved would go from "sneak a few extra chips out the back door" to "analyze the mask, make new masks, load those new masks on the machine, test/validate the processors".

      The mechanism aims to make analyzing the mask sufficiently difficult that the process as a whole is not cost-effective.
    76. Re:Sure, great idea by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I agree completely about the crypto. I didn't really think that a strong crypto would be broken quickly.

      I'm also not trying to disprove everything you say (just in case this offends you), I'm merely trying to look at it from all perspectives.

      About the epoxy though, even if its something like welding epoxys, that stuff is not even remotely safe to put near a processor. Leak or not, there are other risks involved that will shorten the life of the processor. Sure, it can be absolutely impossible to remove without breaking something as fragile as a processor, but you'll cause plenty of problems to the proc itself too.

      I think crypto can be good approaches on certain things, I do agree key methods are probably quite a bitch to crack. However, I will have to wait and see if this can work (which I still pretty much am skeptical until real trials start + more information). Thank you for your educating me in this matter, I always welcome knowledge :)

    77. Re:Sure, great idea by severoon · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the "configuration of gates" they refer to in TFA is basically an electronically configured dongle.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    78. Re:Sure, great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to be honest i don't think you quite get what epic is or does. when it's first powered on it generates it's own unique cryptographic key, waits to be connected to the network, then communicates it's key, and waits for a cryptographic response, which it then validates in the processor... you can't just mask this stuff out, that's why i said a mod chip was probably the only realistic solution, and even thats questionable, since you some how need to block out epic, and get the mod chip to make the cpu run without it's epic portion.

      it's not like you can just use an eraser on the blue prints and the problem goes away, its the kind of thing where if any one part fails the whole thing fails and refuses to run any code at all.

    79. Re:Sure, great idea by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Sheesh. I know you know quite a bit, but I truly pity the people who don't see the wool in front of their eyes and just how much it affects them. I don't see any wool because I'm not wearing any. I run Linux on my old desktop machine and have since 2003. I dual-boot my laptop between OS X and Linux. I have literally never touched a Vista machine.

      And I feel my sarcasm is entirely justified. We were not told that Trusted Computing meant a few annoying DRM problems. We were told that it meant computational totalitarianism, a situation in which our own machines would refuse to run the software we want to run, including alternative operating systems. We were told that we would need to purchase special open hardware that didn't impose the new restrictions on us, and that Trusted Computing would split the internet in twain as Trusted machines refused to so much as open an email connection with non-Trusted, let alone accept telnet or ssh dial-ins.

      None of that happened. Vista's a piece of shit, but it's a piece of shit that I can still freely remove from any machine I can get physical access to by sticking an Ubuntu Live CD in the drive and rebooting the machine.
    80. Re:Sure, great idea by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      If implemented correctly, removing the lock would result in a non-functional chip, since the lock would be part of some vital circuit. It would require all 128 bits to be set the correct way in order to work correctly, and each chip would have a different set of bits (based on the public key it creates) to function correctly. Since each chip would be fabbed slightly differently, I don't really see a way around this.

      The weirder thing is that the reaction to this on Slashdot is overwhelmingly negative, even though all the chips would be unlocked before a customer ever saw the damn things.

    81. Re:Sure, great idea by WhoBeDaPlaya · · Score: 1

      One of the big things in VLSI is not reinventing the wheel. Lots of companies have labs dedicated to reverse engineering competitor's products. Eg. TI acquired Burr-Brown precisely because they couldn't reverse engineering / produce a particular data converter ;)

  3. Tag: DefectiveByDesign by RobBebop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hardware that locks up when it can't call the mothership? And I though Microsoft Genuine Advantage was bad!

    --
    Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    1. Re:Tag: DefectiveByDesign by Reziac · · Score: 1

      What happens when some genius decides that commodity CPUs and chipsets need the same "protection" -- will every chip in a future PC need to Phone Home before the damn thing will run??

      (And people still wonder why I hoard old hardware...)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    2. Re:Tag: DefectiveByDesign by The+Ancients · · Score: 1

      Hardware that locks up when it can't call the mothership? And I though Microsoft Genuine Advantage was bad! Oh, that's ok - there's a phone number on the site. Email form too!
  4. NASA by Stanistani · · Score: 1

    Announcer:

    "The countdown is at 10...9...8..."

    *technician rushes in*

    "Hold everything! We forgot to unlock the MMU processor!"

    "...and ignition!"

  5. Chip Piracy, Eh? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wow, I havn't heard of chip piracy in a long time. Maybe it is because, like other forms of piracy, it isn't a big problem. I have problems with piracy when it involves safety equipment, and large purchases from reputable dealers ... but most of the time, you get what you pay for, and you're not being deceived, you're willingly purchasing counterfeit 'stuff'.

    Isn't it sad when people think of piracy in terms of music, when the REAL piracy problems (counterfeiting) are those which involve fake electrical/safety/baby equipment (or food)?

    1. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even better, given the sophistication of some of these bootleggers - couldn't they just reverse engineer the blueprints and modify them to bypass the feature?

      The chips need to be activated at the manufacturer's level, not the consumer level. It does this by an internal random number generator. So... Take one genuine chip, find out what it's random number/activation key is, then modify your blueprints to produce the SAME ID number (bypass the RNG) and then activate all of them with the same key.

      This sounds no more secure than programs that require user-name based serial numbers...

      Alternatively, produce the chips with the "combination lock" set to "open" to begin with and bypass activation altogether.
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Erpo · · Score: 1

      I think the best use of the word piracy is to describe what real pirates ("arr, matey") do. Calling copyright infringement counterfeiting implies that the people receiving the copies of the software/music/whatever else are unaware that the copies aren't authorized or would prefer authorized copies, which is almost never true in my experience. I have friends who buy retail games and then download ripped versions just so they don't have to deal with CD keys and having the disc in the drive.

      I wish I still had time for games...

    3. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Isn't it sad when people think of piracy in terms of music, when the REAL piracy problems (counterfeiting) are those which involve fake electrical/safety/baby equipment (or food)?

      Or medicine.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's bad in China. They like to pass the prints from the "premium" contractor in Taiwan, to somebody cheap on-shore that will knock them off to Southeast Asia markets. Probably half the stuff on the streets of Hong Kong or Seoul is counterfeit made from the actual prints, but at unauthorized manufactures. It's a problem when that gets back to the USA and the equipment builder is held up for liability for a product they didn't make because the parts get into their installed systems as "spares" for cheap.

    5. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      when the REAL piracy problems (counterfeiting) are those which involve fake electrical/safety/baby equipment (or food)?

      I think I saw a place selling that. Mc something.

    6. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Alternatively, produce the chips with the "combination lock" set to "open" to begin with and bypass activation altogether.

      That's undoubtedly the tack they will take, since the company that originated the design would notice a large number of identical IDs coming from one source. The thing they really want to do is make it so that the original company never knows they made the chip at all.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    7. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      Oh you mean "patented" medicines? Where they patented the process to make the drug because the government wouldn't grant a monopoly on a chemical?

      Even though those clone (counterfeit is misleading) medicines contain identical chemicals and work identically well?

      Pharmaceutical companies are the biggest scum of the earth. If jacking the price on a medication that people need to live isn't profiteering I don't know what is. Why governments continue to allow this boggles my mind. Actually Brazilian government were about to put a stop to it but Abbott Laboratories caved.

      --

      Question everything

    8. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      Pharmaceutical companies are profiteering ... and profiteering was just government sanctioned piracy, right :)

    9. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by blhack · · Score: 1

      couldn't they just reverse engineer the blueprints and modify them to bypass the feature? Well if it were that easy, wouldn't people just do that to get rid of the DRM in software? ...oh, yeah.

      HAHA EPIC = FAIL
      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    10. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by asuffield · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's bad in China. They like to pass the prints from the "premium" contractor in Taiwan, to somebody cheap on-shore that will knock them off to Southeast Asia markets. Probably half the stuff on the streets of Hong Kong or Seoul is counterfeit made from the actual prints, but at unauthorized manufactures.


      And the vast majority of it is every bit as good as the original, because it's made in the same plants by the same people who do all the other outsourced manufacturing. There is never any particular evidence presented to support the usual claim that the "unauthorized" product has a higher defect rate than the "authorized" product.

      This is about whether or not some large US corporation gets their cut of the profits. Nothing more. It should be no surprise that they behave the same way as the mafia.
    11. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'm no fan of big pharmacuticals, but you really do need to know where your drugs are coming from. Generic drugs are wonderful things, if made properly. The problem with counterfeit drugs is that you don't know whether what's in them will help you, hurt you, or do nothing. And if you need a medication to live, even the ones that do nothing could be deadly.

      So by all means, limit or deny all the drug patents you want. We still need to ensure that the drugs we get are made safely.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      unless we go with government funded drug research (which i wouldn't be opposed to) drug companies do have the right both legally and morally to charge what they want for chemicals they invent. without these "evil" companies those drugs wouldn't exist at all.

      as for people "needing the drugs to live"

      these are people who are doomed to death naturally and these companies invest billions in finding ways to save them, expecting a return on investment is their moral obligation so they may continue to find new treatments.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    13. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Mr+44 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is about whether or not some large US corporation gets their cut of the profits. Nothing more. It should be no surprise that they behave the same way as the mafia.


      You misspelled "makes back their R&D investment".

    14. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2

      Isn't it sad when people think of piracy in terms of music, when the REAL piracy problems (counterfeiting) are those which involve fake electrical/safety/baby equipment (or food)?

      The REAL piracy problem is the 13 to 16 billion dollars per year lost to maritime robbery.

      Let's call counterfeiting by its proper name, okay? Confusing people who commit armed robbery on the high seas with people who make counterfeit items (whether safety-critical ones or DVDs) is unlikely to help us talk clearly about the problems.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    15. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by shentino · · Score: 1

      Sheesh, why use such crude language?

      I already posted, so I can't mod you down for flamebait.

    16. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      There's truth to BOTH sides of that argument.

      I've meet engineers that are every bit out-of-touch with what the market will truly bear and have no idea that their patent is worth $.50 a unit or nobody will give a damn. So many people are out there expecting 10x what their patent is worth and complaining when people don't want to pay. Enter companies like IBM that understand putting product out there for customers is priority, most of their patents are just reviews of what employees already did, or think would be a good solution to a problem in front of them.

      The other side is that the Chinese and others are "just cheap". Particularly when they think they can get away with it in countries that don't enforce the contracts they made with Americans (in this case) to get the technology to manufacture. That's just it, aside from patents, these companies aren't honoring their contract obligations. They were given product to make under NDA (at least) and violated that service to their Contracted Customer by letting the information go to other parties. The idea would be to simply cut them out, but the bulk of hi-tech manufacturing was built in asia due to the cheap staff for university level work at McDonald's wages in America. We can't STOP sending them contracts because we can't make the volume anymore in the USA.

    17. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you answered your own question youdouchebag

    18. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by catprog · · Score: 1

      The difference is with one you have the blueprints and the other you don't.

      --
      My Transformation Website
      Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
      Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
    19. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by catprog · · Score: 1

      Why do they even need to contact the company?

      All they need to do is set up a fake server that the chip contacts.

      --
      My Transformation Website
      Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
      Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
    20. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by jsiren · · Score: 1

      Oh you mean "patented" medicines? Where they patented the process to make the drug because the government wouldn't grant a monopoly on a chemical?
      Even though those clone (counterfeit is misleading) medicines contain identical chemicals and work identically well? Nope, clone != counterfeit. For example, counterfeit malaria drugs are being sold in Africa. They look just like the real thing, are packaged just like the real thing, are sold for half the price, and cost a tenth to manufacture because they only contain a minuscule amount of the active chemical, if any. The result: somebody pockets the difference while people die of malaria.
      --
      Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
    21. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      unless we go with government funded drug research (which i wouldn't be opposed to) drug companies do have the right both legally and morally to charge what they want for chemicals they invent. without these "evil" companies those drugs wouldn't exist at all.

      You'd be surprised how much drug research is actually funded by the government. Most of the basic research into what drugs are and how they work is funded by the government. Most of the pharmaceutical company research has to do with slightly altering known medicines into something that they can patent. Hell, the pharmaceutical industry spends more on marketing than it does on research. That's straight up wrong.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Chip Piracy, Eh? by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about drugs that aren't actually the same drug at all. That's just a form of fraud.

      I'm talking about not calling drugs that are functionally identical counterfeit. That's misleading as hell.

      If it looks like the medicine, and it works like the medicine (and I'm not referring to patient perception), it is the medicine. All else is corporate dickwaving and imaginary property rights fuss.

      --

      Question everything

  6. Just Curious by mudetroit · · Score: 1

    Forgive me for not RTFA as I am on my way out the door How does the chip contact the Patent Holder? Are we dealing with some form of activation system here? Is it going to end up being the same end result as Windows Activation which is the never ending race between the pirates and patent holder to get to keys? If a pirate manufacturer gets ahold of the serial generation scheme and is able to activate their chip before the real one does that mean the real user will not be able to?

  7. Not a good idea by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In a number of countries that this chip is aimed for, what will happen is that some knockoff fab will disassemble the chip, figure out the masks, and just make and sell the same IC minus the locking circuitry.

    This type of locking mechanism also brings up other points. Once the IC is "unlocked", is it unlocked for good, or just for a time period? Could some criminal organization figure out the method of re-locking it, then lock the machines who belong to the patent holder's customers? This would result in some decent havoc especially in embedded circuitry (HVAC systems, railroad switches.)

    The article seems to be lacking substance as well.

    1. Re:Not a good idea by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2

      Not to mention that if the manufacturer goes out of business, all the equipment stops working.

      As if anyone would take -that- risk...

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    2. Re:Not a good idea by webmaster404 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that if the manufacturer goes out of business, all the equipment stops working. As if anyone would take -that- risk...

      Yet I see people with DRM-ed music bought from online stores such as iTunes that could go out of business and then the songs won't be able to be redownloaded. I see even more people (including me) who buy virtual games on current generation consoles such as the Wii/360/PS3 that if your HD goes bad or you run out of room (in the case of the Wii its rather easy to) Your stuck and can't get your data if the console gets retired or Nintendo/MS/Sony goes out of business. So yes, I can see people taking that risk, now for people having to pay more for this, I don't see how that will work.
      --
      There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
    3. Re:Not a good idea by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      Let me see. US Company A outsources production of chips to fab shop in China. Fab shop in China produces chips for US Company A and a couple hundred thousand for themselves. I'm pretty sure any "counterfeiting" being done in any substantially large quantity is done like this making them identical to the real McCoy thus rendering the locking feature inert. So this is basically a solution looking for a problem.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    4. Re:Not a good idea by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2, Funny

      Could some criminal organization figure out the method of re-locking it?
      Which government agency are you thinking of specifically?
      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    5. Re:Not a good idea by AP2k · · Score: 1

      I also thought immediately of this. They dont even have to disassemble it. The article implies the main way that knockoff fabs get their plans are by blueprints. So chip manufacturers are going to produce chips that have DRM because they cant keep their blueprint designs safe. Makes a hell of a lot of sense....

      If a knockoff gets the blueprints, its fairly trivial to figure out where the DRM stuff is located and they can modify their fab process so that it doesnt include them.

    6. Re:Not a good idea by jd · · Score: 1
      Why would a pirate bother with such complicated methods? The lock must be added, which means it'll be stored as a template in a standard format somewhere - possibly VHDL, SystemC or Verilog.

      Thief #1 is ubersmart and simply backdoors the template so he can unlock the chip himself, even though it appears locked to the company.

      Thief #2 is reasonably smart. Mask inspections will be against what the computer says the mask should be, not what the high-level description says it should be. Provided testing is sufficiently lax, just omit the mask altogether.

      Thief #3 is slap-dash and doesn't care about such fancy stuff. He just rips the source files describing the chips.

      Thief #4 is also a bit thuggish. He overwrites the locking templates with dummy files and steals the first batch of chips made. By the time anyone realizes the chips are unprotected, he'll be long-gone.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    7. Re:Not a good idea by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      What they're talking about would be at the microcode level. Almost all interesting chips are programmed these days. Intel and AMD program in serial numbers and set memory speeds permanently long before Dell sees the chips to flash for the BIOS. This step would be performed by the Patent holder themselves before they sell them to customers, so only they would have the equipment. This assumes you can make the parts fully testable without the key so manufacturing can't figure it out. The chip going to the actual customer would be fully enabled, it just forces all the chips to go thru official channels to be sold as working same as cars on the truck requiring a few extra nuts and bolts from a separate box before they're saleable.

    8. Re:Not a good idea by droopycom · · Score: 1

      Supposedly, the China Fab reports to the Company A how many chip they built, along with some unique identifier for the chips. When Company B buys chips from Company A, Company A will unlock the Chip (or send them the code to unlock the chip). If well designed, the code is unique per chip.

      As such if China Fab keep 10000 extra unit without reporting it to Company A, they wont be able to unlock them.

      Of course they could always modify the process to remove the locking mechanism or to produce 10000 chips with the same unlock code, but thats going to be a lot harder than justs diverting extra units.

    9. Re:Not a good idea by glwtta · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure any "counterfeiting" being done in any substantially large quantity is done like this making them identical to the real McCoy thus rendering the locking feature inert.

      Well, yeah, if I'm understanding this correctly, that's the idea here - they want Company A to be the only ones who can unlock the chips, so the extra ones would be useless to the Chinese fab (and anyone they sell them to).

      Still unlikely to work, but the scenario you describe is exactly what they are targeting.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    10. Re:Not a good idea by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      "If the intelligence community is a family, think of us as the uncle no one talks about. "
      - Agent Lowry (Conspiracy Theory)
    11. Re:Not a good idea by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      this will just create a job position for a few EE's willing to spend a few very profitable hours cleaning up these devices

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  8. Well, if they have the blueprint... by FlyByPC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...wouldn't it be pretty straightforward to replace the hardware circuit that does

    if(bignastyDRM(uniqueDRMkey)==TRUE){}

    with

    if(TRUE){}

    ...?

    Yes, I know circuits are usually either designed with a capture program or modeled in VRML/Verilog -- but the logic still holds. Find out what part of the circuit locks the functionality -- and replace it with a wire to Vcc.

    (Unless, of course, they will require the chip to communicate with the mothership every time it has to blow its little digital nose etc...)

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    1. Re:Well, if they have the blueprint... by Sta7ic · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure thing. Just gotta jimmy a paperclip in there at the 45nm level.

    2. Re:Well, if they have the blueprint... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      No, before they're manufacturered.

      As in, take the blueprint, make the change there, then give the blueprint to a pirate shop, who then fabricates unlocked chips.

      Although... that is still a pretty funny picture

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:Well, if they have the blueprint... by zude · · Score: 1

      wouldn't it be pretty straightforward to replace the hardware circuit

      The chip foundry has what is essentially a picture of patterns to be etched onto a piece of silicon. Making substantive changes to the chip by modifying the mask is, I suspect, similar in scope to removing the vocals from an mp3 by modifying it with a hex editor.

  9. Giving new meaning to.... by coolhaus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Giving new meaning to your CPU locking up.

  10. Intul Inside! Powered by AMB! by themushroom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But my pirated copy of Windows only works on my pirated CPU chip!

    Okay, show of hands, who has a pirated processor? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Is this really a huge problem? Doesn't it cost more to produce a pirate CPU than the potential profits from selling it? Methinks the issue is overstated, either that or the chip industry should contact the RIAA & MPAA's media moguls about an advertising deal (which is the same thing, overstatement but loud).

  11. Blueprints? by joebob2000 · · Score: 1

    I guess they mean layout, since ASICs have their behavior defined in a hardware description language (HDL). I guess the design for the lower level layout could be protected this way, but that is not the only way IP is stolen. Maybe this would stop "3rd shift at the factory" type piracy, but you can't be sure from what's in the article.

    It will not stop the snagging your high level design, which is where the actual proprietary IP is that your competitors want to steal.

  12. This targets gray market, not black by smellsofbikes · · Score: 4, Informative

    If I read the original article correctly:
    If someone gets the chip design and is copying it to be built in another fab, it'd be possible (difficult, but much less difficult than a complete chip redesign or re-engineering) to remove this part of the chip (and increase the profit margin, since A: no investment on research and B: more die per unit silicon.)

    What this is going to affect is people who run a fab making legitimate parts, but also run the same parts from the same masks but keep them off the books and sell them independently of the company that owns the design -- OEM ripoffs.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    1. Re:This targets gray market, not black by powerlord · · Score: 1

      What this is going to affect is people who run a fab making legitimate parts, but also run the same parts from the same masks but keep them off the books and sell them independently of the company that owns the design -- OEM ripoffs.


      So for instance all those "third shift" stories about Factories in China?
      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    2. Re:This targets gray market, not black by autophile · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what your title has to do with your post. Gray market goods are goods manufactured legitimately and specifically for countries with depressed prices, showing up for sale in countries with high prices through unauthorized distribution. The typical example is digital cameras and DV cams manufactured for, say, the Southeast Asian market showing up for sale in the US.

      The only difference is that the gray market devices come with that other country's language, not yours. Also the manufacturer will not honor warranties on gray market devices. Other than that, they work exactly as advertised.

      What you are talking about are not even built legitimately, so I don't think you mean gray market.

      --Rob

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
  13. Uhm... but if the chip is patented... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    Why would they need to pirate the blueprints? Why not just go to the patent office, look up the patent, and implement a chip based off that? And would it be that hard to chop out the encryption part, or is the entire chip encrypted? I think the article got something mixed up.

    1. Re:Uhm... but if the chip is patented... by bkaul01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Patents are rarely detailed enough to fully implement in practice; usually they cover only a subset of the design, and are written broadly enough that several different paths could be taken to implement them. Looking up a patent would show you the concept, but not an exact design such as a blueprint provides.

    2. Re:Uhm... but if the chip is patented... by Fry-kun · · Score: 1

      The patents are tricky. They won't tell you the whole layout of the chip, because that's too specific. Otherwise you could alter one transistor and your copy is "different" - the patent doesn't hold.
      What usually gets patented are various tricks, e.g. performing an operation more efficiently, faster, etc. The trick is to find the ones that make the chip useless or vastly inferior if the trick is not used.

      --
      Did you know that "FTW" ("for the win") is a direct translation of "Sieg Heil"?
    3. Re:Uhm... but if the chip is patented... by RichMan · · Score: 1

      >> Why not just go to the patent office, look up the patent, and implement a chip based off that?

      Even if you know exactly the specs you are trying to meet a high end chip could still take 10-100 man years of work or more. This ain't as simple as rocket science.

  14. Oblig. by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dark Helmet: "So the combination is one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! The kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!"
    ...
    President Skroob: "1 2 3 4 5? That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!"

    --
    "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
  15. Hmm, this reminds me of something by fallen1 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    very, very foul and disturbing. Oh, yeah, P3 chips with unique Processor Serial Numbers. I realize that the goal of this project is not the same as the Intel PSNs, but it still strikes me as a way to get unique IDs into each CPU and end anonymity on the net -- what there is that remains of anonymity. Not to mention the complete foul-ups when some enterprising "hacker" figures out how to remotely lock CPUs or other chips that have been unlocked.

    While it sounds promising, it still raises the little hairs on the back of my neck. Danger Will Robinson, danger!

    --

    Dream as if you'll live forever.
    Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
    ~Anonymous~

    1. Re:Hmm, this reminds me of something by quazee · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you are already screwed.
      Every DIMM module you have installed probably has an unique serial number in their SPD data.
      Your network card has an unique default MAC address.
      Your motherboard probably has an unique (random) GUID.
      Each hard drive/optical drive has a serial number (and not just the volume serial number).

      Adding a model-specific register to a CPU with its serial number does not make things much worse.

      --
      throw new SuccessException("Sig read successfully");
  16. The second by BigJClark · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Perhaps its unlocked once and good to go. I don't think its the consumer that is guilty of pirated chips, but computer companies that purchase elicit copied chips cheaper than from the OEM. This shouldn't affect us that much, besides a perceived increase in quality.

    Nothing to see here, move along.

    --

    Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    1. Re:The second by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 1

      Nothing to see here, move along. ...says the man with the unlocked chip on his shoulder...
      --

      Lord, I apologize for that one, and please be with the starving pygmies in Africa, amen
  17. Holy crap by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess this means I'll have to buy genuine Ruffles and Doritos from now on!
    --
    How many mod points will this bad pun cost me?

    1. Re:Holy crap by Alsee · · Score: 1
      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  18. How is Chip "Piracy" bad? by webmaster404 · · Score: 1

    Just exactly why would the end user want what is essentally hardware DRM? With "pirated" chips the customer had paid for the chip while when you "pirate" music you usally get it for free. With these "pirated" chips you think you actually have a legit product (and really, if it works and is cheap who cares) that is unlike "pirating" music where most people know that its not 100% legal.

    --
    There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
    1. Re:How is Chip "Piracy" bad? by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      You must pay for the cost of designing and support. If you can just sell chips without designing them sure it's cheap. The engineering man hours are expensive. Whats the incentive to designing a chip when you can't make money off of it. This kind of behavior will cripple technology as we know it. Sooner or later I foresee fabs moving back to the US for this reason. Not a bad thing for US jobs.

    2. Re:How is Chip "Piracy" bad? by KillerCow · · Score: 1

      Because it takes revenue away from the company who is supposed to sell it. They lose out on recouping R&D costs.

      Look at it this way: why would you sink a wad of cash into R&D if someone else can just clone your chip. The two of you have the same fabrication costs, but they didn't pay the R&D. If it gets into a price war, you go out of business because you have an R&D expense that they don't. Even if it doesn't get into a price war, their profits are higher because they don't have an R&D expense. The market would be signaling to everyone to not do any R&D.

    3. Re:How is Chip "Piracy" bad? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Just exactly why would the end user want what is essentally hardware DRM? With "pirated" chips the customer had paid for the chip while when you "pirate" music you usally get it for free. With these "pirated" chips you think you actually have a legit product (and really, if it works and is cheap who cares) that is unlike "pirating" music where most people know that its not 100% legal. I would rather get the pirated version.

      Pirate versions are usually superior because they don't have DRM this is especially true for music.

      This phone home concept works on the idea that the Internet is always available this is an outdated idea the Internet is slowly being closed up and becoming less accessible with censorship taking hold even without censorship why should you have to rely on the Internet just for some circuitry to work?

      ~Dan

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    4. Re:How is Chip "Piracy" bad? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "Look at it this way: why would you sink a wad of cash into R&D if someone else can just clone your chip."

      There are lots of companies in China making their own stuff AND rampantly copying each other. They still seem to think they can make money, and I bet more than a few do.

      It takes time to copy stuff. So you might make money _first_ and establish brand awareness, distribution channels and market share first, gain buyer trust etc.

      I have no problems with people copying my code (I hope they improve it significantly). What I have problems with is if people copy my stuff and tell _lies_ about it (fraud, plagiarism, misrepresentation etc). So maybe they could be required to say in small print "This product is a copy of Brand X Model Y, or uses tech in Brand X Model Y" (only if it's true of course ;) ).

      If someone made a copy and pretended to be the original (same box, same name, same address to contact for support etc), now that's a BIG problem - and you don't need to resort to patents and copyrights for that sort of thing.

      I've just bought a Made in China radio controlled helicopter - if someone made a copy and put their label on it, I'd still go for the original till the copy is proven - because I can't be sure if they really made a 100% copy and didn't cut _more_ corners (heh I bet the original cut corners too, but for the past X _years_ that model has been out, it seems acceptable by many). So there will be a large number of people who would still buy the original.

      By the time the copy turns out to be just as good or better, hopefully the original manufacturer would have come out with something even better.

      That sort of thing is good for the _market_. It's not _easy_ for you the manufacturer, but hey aren't there plenty of big free market fans in the USA?

      Nowadays patents and copyrights are just anti-competitive tools, especially with the timespans involved - you never need to compete against your old product - so companies like Microsoft can dare to do something like Vista.

      Imagine if copyright was just 7 years. Microsoft would have to really make something _significantly_ better than Windows 2000, and Microsoft Office 97.

      BTW in China some company actually copied NEC, as in pretended to be NEC, but they even made their own products which NEC never made. Now that's so wrong, but I also wonder if some of the employees might actually have thought they were actually working for NEC ;).

      --
  19. Their largest customer by joeflies · · Score: 1

    I understand that the Galactic Empire ordered a batch of this technology in order to protect against stolen blueprints.

  20. I don't get it by Deathlizard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If fabless companies are so worried about overseas manufacturing, then why not use a fab that is inside the country your company resides in? That way, you can sue the living hell out of them when they do sell / steal your plans.

    I would think that building the Chips in the US or Europe where the fabs are more reputable would be a better cost effective solution than sending it to an orient fab and watch it pump out pirate chips left and right, or relying on some sort of activation scheme that these pirate hardware companies would most likely reverse engineer out of them anyway.

    1. Re:I don't get it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      Ya, seems odd to me especially since a number of highly successful companies, like Intel for example, do just that. Intel's fabs aren't all in one place, and aren't all in the US, but they are all in developed countries. Most are in various places in the US (the newest is in Chandler Arizona) but there's one in Ireland and one in Israel.

      It's pretty clear it is working for them and they can make money doing it, as they are doing well and like I said, their very newest fab is in Arizona.

    2. Re:I don't get it by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I'm not quite sure why there is such a drive to put CPU fabs in 3rd world countries. Sure, the labor is cheaper, but my understanding is that the capital costs are measured in hundreds of millions of dollars, or even billions. I'm guessing the manpower to operate such a fab is fairly low. So, where are the savings?

      Maybe if you want to dump solvents in the local creek it might make sense, or if there were some crazy tax law you were trying to dodge. However, in the latter case at least I'm sure you can convince some Congressmen to fix the tax code if you put the fab in their state. No getting around dumping the solvents in a civilized nation, but really - do companies like Intel/etc really need to resort to this?

    3. Re:I don't get it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      The only thing I can guess is it is as with most outsourcing where the companies get all caught up in the numbers of how much they can save, without really doing any analysis of total costs. I've seen more than a few companies who pissed and moaned because they outsourced some software development to Inda, only to have it cost more in the end. They discovered there were all kinds of hidden costs involved.

      I'd guess that is what is going on here. Companies get all worked in to a lather over "Look how much money we could save!!!!111" without full considering all costs, wihc include things like grey market chips. Then they get sinvely and want a technical solution to fix it.

      All I have to say is that it seems Intel manages to do fine with fabs in teh develped world, as do others (IBM for example has fabs in the US, France, Japan and Italy). I feel all of zero sympathy for these companies. You always need to do a full cost analysis, and that includes not ignoring indirect costs.

  21. This is dumb. I can crack it in two seconds. by MikeDataLink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I am copying the chip, I'll just remove those stupid extra "locks" during the manufacturing process. Just remove them from my pirated copy before I make the chip. Seems like a dumb idea.

    --
    Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
  22. Internet memes in naming? by Fex303 · · Score: 1

    Ending Piracy of Integrated Circuits (Epic)
    So when the server goes down locks up everyone's computers, I guess we can refer to it as epic fail.
  23. Overriding factor for implementation by The+Ancients · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...will be cost. A 'few extra circuits' may not sound like much, but with chip manufacturers engaged in a protracted price war, every cent counts - especially when multiplied by the chip numbers we are talking here.

    1. Re:Overriding factor for implementation by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      I'm sure if anyone tries to implement something like this they will look at the possible benefit (not having pirated chips out there) vs. the added cost. If they don't then they need to shoot their MBA's and get new ones.

  24. When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it says: by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

    EPIC FAIL!

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  25. Error Message? by CompMD · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wrong crypto key?

    EPIC FAIL.

  26. Same Non-Problem, Same *WRONG* Solution by ewhac · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Although the article doesn't expressly say so, I'm guessing chip "activation" occurs at the factory long before it's put in a tube and shipped to an OEM. So end-users will (probably) never see this.

    As I see it, this has two major problems with it. The first, of course, is that copy protection in any form is childish, stupid, and ultimately ineffective.

    The second is a bit more down to earth -- this will become the bottleneck on the manufacturing line. Chips are manufactured in the millions, with hundreds of thousands falling off the line each day. These nimrods propose to authenticate every last one of them, using computationally non-trivial crypto, uniquely before they roll off the line.

    Let's generously assume it takes one second to authenticate and activate a chip (not, that's not a ridiculously long time -- between crypto compute time and network latency to the Pacific Rim, this is entirely realistic). This means you can activate a maximum of 86400 chips per day. Maybe you can parallelize the process, and maybe you can't (depends on whether the people who wrote the authentication server were idiots or not). And if your OC-3 to the Internet gets a backhoe through it, "accidentally" or otherwise, all production in your facility stops dead. Wonderful idea.

    This stunning idea also seems to assume only one patent holder will be interested in a given chip. The most cursory inspection of even a "simple" memory chip will reveal several patent holders, all of whom will doubtless insist on "activation" which, again, may or may not be parallelizeable.

    Like all copy protection "solutions" presented throughout history, this is a really, really stupid idea. I can't think of any fab that would willingly sign on to this.

    Schwab

    1. Re:Same Non-Problem, Same *WRONG* Solution by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can think of a way to make an obscene profit off of it: negotiate to be paid by the hour rather than by the unit. The longer it takes to authenticate a chip, the better. ;-P

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    2. Re:Same Non-Problem, Same *WRONG* Solution by WhoBeDaPlaya · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Nothing rings quite as true as "time is money" in IC manufacturing. Hell, we're even cutting as many tests as possible (and scaling down the ones we do run) during testing just to shave fractions of seconds off time on ATEs.

  27. Think PHYs, not Pentiums by Skirwan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There was a time when half the USB flash media readers on the market were based on the same pirated designs -- at least according to hardware folks I used to work with who'd be in a better position to know than I am (or, most likely, you are). I'm fairly sure this is a bigger problem than many people realize.

    1. Re:Think PHYs, not Pentiums by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      That's a nice myth that floated about for years. Fact was that most of those were based upon the chip maker's prototype spec and cince it worked they simply made that design and sold it.

      This actually happens WAY more than you expect. Most products based around a "super chip" typically look incredibly close to or even exactly like the manufacturers example in the chips documentation.

      Almost every single USB ethernet adapter I saw matched the chip spec sheet example design.

      Problem is most executives and managers dont know anything about the products they make and then try and claim that XXX stole their design, When in fact their engineers simply cut and pasted the example to get it done faster.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Think PHYs, not Pentiums by WarlockD · · Score: 1

      That makes sense. I mean all you have to do is go to Fry's and you find 10 different manufactures producing the same kind of reader for the same price. I always wondered how they even make margins.

      If they are all using the same design with a different plastic box, it makes sense. Still, I would think somone is getting paid for the IP and/or patent for the multi USB adapter. At least in the states.

  28. abused by phrostie · · Score: 1

    the two things that come to mind first are that it could be abused by large nameless (software, music, or movie,,,) companies that want to add "features' based on this technology.

    and second that the authors of various types of malware will find a way to exploit this and use it.
    anything that can be turned on can be turned off.

    one day your IT department gets an email saying that they will kill all your computers if you don't pay X dollars.

  29. Yeah, I can see this working by ElGanzoLoco · · Score: 1

    -Tries to tackle industrial piracy through technology - Check
    -Strong financial incentive to break the scheme exists - Check
    -Can be broken or crippled in a number of ways - Check
    -Attempts to address a problem involving dozens of manufacturers, hundreds of factories, producing billions of microchips which get integrated into everything from toasters to cellphones, planes, and oil rigs - Check
    -Scheme conveniently relies on the Internet for authentication- Check
    -And, last but not least: features cheesy acronym forming a heroic-sounding name - Check

    Okay, I think it is safe to assume this will lead nowhere. Or nowhere good at least.

    Seriously, I can't wait to see what happens until someone DDoSes an authentication server and about half a billion different devices, from fridges to routers, all suddenly stop working because they all use the same chip, (say, the one that handles temperature control).

    --
    Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
  30. Cracking Client != Cracking Server by InterDisciple · · Score: 1

    The only way to prevent cracking is if the processor's computation takes place at company's "server". As long as the actual processing is done on the client side, the server isn't even needed. The cracker only needs one legitimate chip with one legitimate key, to witness the proper functioning of the chip. Then the chip's basic functionality can be recreated in a new design, without any encryption or server. This is basic stuff... The real story is how engineers at Rice University and the University of Michigan got such a story into the news.

  31. The research paper by cowpiboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    The research paper describing EPIC http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~imarkov/pubs/conf/date08-epic.pdf will be presented next week in Munich http://date-conference.com/

    1. Re:The research paper by droopycom · · Score: 1

      I read that paper.

      The problem I see with this is that it looks like the activation must be done before testing and is done by the fab.

      As such, all chips even the one reported defective by the Fab will be activated.
      The Fab could claim that some chips are bad even when they are not and then re-sell them on the black market.

      The IP holder would see some difference in yield when the Fab does that, but this might be explained otherwise.
      For example the Fab could say..."we had some equipment failure that day, so 50% of the chips production that day was damaged, sorry".
      To avoid this the IP holder would have to ask the Fab to send them all the activated chip even the one that failed the test, and securely destroy them ...

      It would be better if the chips could be reliably tested while still locked.

    2. Re:The research paper by owlstead · · Score: 3, Informative

      Interesting paper:
      - relies on the fact that *any* changes in the blueprint would be prohibitively expensive, could be, but just replacing components by pathways does not *sound* very expensive to me
      - RSA key pair generation on chip: bad idea, RSA key pair generation can take a lot of time (ECC key pair generation could be used as a replacement), needs PRNG
      - PRNG on chip might prove expensive (where does it get its entropy???)
      - no mention of X509 or any other PKI scheme, lets hope they are smart enough to see that they need some form of key management scheme
      - cost of maintaining a PKI (public key infrastructure) might be rather expensive, especially if both parties are new to the game

      Overall, interesting idea, but I'm not so sure anyone would want this. Lots of hassle for the buyer without any benefits to him, this makes it 1) expensive, thus a less favourable solution to others without this scheme 2) more likely that they will screw up the PKI system that is needed for this to work.

      Well, they called it EPIC, and we all know that it may take some time before EPIC products come out (e.g. this one :)

  32. Re:This is dumb. I can crack it in two seconds. by DCBoland · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know this is /. but I took the time to find the actual paper, they cover the typical attacks on the security mechanism quite thoroughly. Apparently its very difficult to scan a mask, especially at the small scales the industry deals in today - they suggest it would be cheaper to simply design the chip yourself.

    (Off-topic: the anti-spam mechanism atm gives an interesting result for my email address..."'poo' in gap" oO)

    --
    I think the [MS Word] paperclip is a great idea. - Miguel de Icaza
  33. Only half of the solution by charlesbakerharris · · Score: 1

    Now we need something to keep people from double-dipping. Then our chip problems will be a thing of the past.

  34. what a stupid idea by superwiz · · Score: 1

    So this would thwart reverse engineering, but not thwart piracy. Pirates are quite advanced. They were capable of slicing the chips thinly enough to examine them layer-by-layers years ago. Of course, once reverse engineering is thwarted, the piracy will become more profitable and proliferate. Well, good luck with that patent, guys.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  35. Re:WoW by JustinKSU · · Score: 1

    Watch me Epic Mount this chip into the motherboard.

  36. Real Pirate Chips by Samah · · Score: 1
    --
    Homonyms are fun!
    You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
    1. Re:Real Pirate Chips by Xiaran · · Score: 1

      $ comes BEFORE the monetary value

      Your cultural bias is showing... the placement of the currency symbol varies from country to country... would you write -$123 or $-123? Ask a Swede about that one. If I have to put up with dealing with silly American date formats then other have to put up with the quircks of other countries :)

    2. Re:Real Pirate Chips by youngdev · · Score: 1

      Being an arrogant American myself, I was not aware there were other date format. The most common here is yyyy-MM-dd and MM/dd/yyyy.

      just out of curiosity what do you use and why?

    3. Re:Real Pirate Chips by Xiaran · · Score: 1

      Im an Australian by birth and live in the UK so I generally use either dd/mm/yyyy(Au and Uk standard) or yyyy/mm/dd when dealing with software sometimes... I have cultural bias also :)

    4. Re:Real Pirate Chips by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      dd-mm-yyyy is pretty common, probably because that orders the units from smallest to largest.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:Real Pirate Chips by Samah · · Score: 1

      What culture do you think I am? Fine, I'll remove it then. Seeing lazy people type 123$ in IRC just irks me.
      On another note, the coffee shop near my work uses apostrophes for plurals in at least 5 of their signwriter-printed advertisements; eg. coffee's, frappe's, latte's. I cringe.

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
  37. Cher Act? by tepples · · Score: 1

    How does the chip contact the Patent Holder? And what happens 20 years after the chip comes out, when there is no patent holder because the patents have expired? Or are we dealing with some planned Cher Patent Term Extension Act?
  38. real piracy on the high seas by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 1

    How many people in the world know how to pirate a microchip? Like, ten? And I'd bet they're busy doing their friggin jobs, so they don't have the time to deal with this nonsense.

    Dude, you want to see piracy? The Dread Pirate Roberts takes NO survivors! He'd kill ten people to make five cents. Now that's piracy! Not some pimply faced geek with inch-thick glasses downloading the latest MP3 off the computer.

  39. Am I Missing Something? by immcintosh · · Score: 1

    I don't get it. I would assume anybody with the sophistication to actually manufacture such a chip would be able to just remove the locking mechanism from the design, no? Or is it so fundamentally integrated into the design that you'd have to totally redesign the chip to make it work after being removed? The article seems really light on details, but I just don't see how this would work. Then again, it's certainly not an area I have any expertise in.

    1. Re:Am I Missing Something? by NumenMaster · · Score: 1

      Those are really good questions. Say someone had the sophistication to fabricate a chip of comparable complexity.. They could simply market said chip as their own 'equivalent' and sell it for less. Almost like they're currently doing, except it would be legal and intel can't go after them (unless they use patented tech). Shoot, I can go to the market and buy a coke equivalent at Safeway and it tastes just as good, if not better. I also pay less. Know what I mean? In short, if someone can redesign a chip to forego a locking mechanism, they've created their own technology and can sell it.

      --
      Where's my sock? There it is...
  40. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by Icegryphon · · Score: 0

    A picture of the V For Vendetta Mask (Guy Fawkes) appears as well.

  41. inability to discern and face reality by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

    This "problem" of stopping copying and sharing, is it even solvable? That a technical "solution" is even being tried shows little faith in the law. If intellectual property law actually worked, and if owners weren't constantly trying for even more "rights" than the law grants, they wouldn't need this hardware DRM, they wouldn't waste time and resources on it, and they wouldn't even think of trying it anymore than an ordinary person would think of trying to get a restaurant to pay him to eat a meal. That both legal and technical solutions are hopelessly flawed and yet they try them anyway shows they're not too smart. About the only thing that does work, for a while, are appeals to morality. All that DRM does in that case is serve as a guide. And that's pretty wobbly. When no one any longer sees anything wrong with copying (and that day may yet come, and sooner thanks to the alienating tactics owners have employed) what will they do? You'd think that the failure of every single technique ever tried to stop copying would lead to a reexamination of some basic assumptions about the means we use to promote the arts and sciences. But no, we still have people trying to create DRM that works.

    Watching yet another attempt at DRM is like watching the launching of yet another voyage to find the edge of the world. 520 years from now, DRM is going to look about as sensible as proofs that the world is flat look to us today.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  42. Re:This is dumb. I can crack it in two seconds. by sdsucks · · Score: 1

    WTF?

    Someone actually modded this comment insightful? I hope that was a joke.

  43. So what prevents the IC "pirate" from stealing? by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I mean, these guys are good enough to steal the design and have the knowledge to manufacture the device. What prevents them from modifying the IC to remove the lock? I mean, they are the ones actually making it. I am sure they have someone smart enough to be able to find the "added" authentication portion in the design docs, since the design docs probably have it named exactly what it is (i.e. the Epic lock circuit)....

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:So what prevents the IC "pirate" from stealing? by Nekozen · · Score: 1

      It appears the manufacturers only have access to the masks (which are physically used to etch the silicon).

      I think the term blueprints are misleading, I don't believe the blueprints are available to the manufacturers.

      The designers can just create the masks from the blueprints and then send them to the manufactures.

      It's probably hard to reverse engineer the blueprints from the masks.

      The article mentions that adding wires to a chip after production, while possible is very expensive at the 32 nm scale.

      Good questions!

  44. This wasn't done already? by ghostbar38 · · Score: 0

    Trying to lock things up? And have ever worked? No! Because is not the way!! When they will learn?...

    --
    ghostbar page.
  45. Rule #1... by Randolpho · · Score: 1

    If it's a Backronym, it's crap.

    Seriously, though, the AMD/Intel wars are long over. Is "chip piracy" really an issue?

    --
    "Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
    -Marilyn Manson
  46. Re:This is dumb. I can crack it in two seconds. by pclminion · · Score: 1

    If you're smart enough to do that in "two seconds" why the hell aren't you making billions of dollars with your own chip designs?

  47. It's all about the factories... by argent · · Score: 1

    This sounds like it's something to keep Random East Asian Fab from running off a few million extra licensed chips and selling them on the grey market... not something to lock out the end user if he doesn't pay the annual fee. The upside is that you'll never even know when you're buying something protected by EPIC. The downside is that you'll never know until EPIC FAILs. And maybe not even then.

  48. Lock out causing Mayhem? by birukun · · Score: 1

    What happens when the thing locks back up?

    I hope the next generation fighter jet and Boeing 777 make sure these parts don't make it in there.

    "Flight 82, this is the tower. Please state your intentions for disregarding orders to circle until you are cleared to land"

    "Tower this is flight 82. Throttle controls are unresponsive - I keep getting a 500 error."

    --
    Self Defense - A Human Right www.a-human-right.com
  49. flylogic would hack right past that by bagofcrap · · Score: 1

    Anyone else immediately think of Flylogic when they saw this?

    They etch away the plastic surrounding the die on an IC to expose the die itself, and can then read back the contents of the rom manually. "You can literally take these two pictures above and create a schematic from them if you understand NMOS circuits."

    (their blog)

    ...How does whats described in the article affect those with the power to create a schematic from an inert chip?

  50. You can't secure initial authentication! by StandardCell · · Score: 1

    Most of you who know something about semiconductors understand that customization of semiconductors happens after the manufacturing process, usually by insertion using big IC testers, laser trimming, customized package bond-outs, and so on. If the control of a central authority (i.e. root certificate) is necessary, as opposed to control from the semiconductor (which affords no protection), then a digital certificate still needs to be injected with a root certificate residing at a properly protected certificate authority with standard protections like FIPS-certified hardware security modules. Simply creating a unique ID by which one would somehow use a public/private key scheme would still be subject to a man-in-the-middle attack.

    Now, the problem is that you need to get that certificate into the chip securely. If you do it at the initial tester level (i.e. wafer sort), then you have a gaping hole because someone can analyze the communication into the chip using digital oscilloscope data capture off of the load board or probe card and create their own root certificate. One still needs to mount a man-in-the-middle attack to accomplish this, but it is definitely possible to attack the system. Combine this with the mask duplication that already occurs in IC theft or the "extra shift" problem where the chips are overproduced, and this scheme can be entirely bypassed. If one embeds a temporary or permanent certificate in ROM, then the masks can easily be reverse-engineered to determine the secrets. This could take more time, but is ultimately insecure.

    The only way one could really prevent this problem is if you could physically prevent someone in the test house from getting physical access to the tester. Something along the lines of FIPS 140 Level 3 would be necessary to prevent the type of intrusion on the data insertion from the tester, and this would be prohibitively expensive and logistically nightmarish. Most of these FIPS 140 Level 3 systems are usually hermetically sealed one-way and not meant to constantly cycle physical items through like wafer boats or chip trays. In short, it's not really a feasible scheme.

    Threat models aside, the ultimate goal of security is not to make it impenetrable but to make it economically infeasible. Unfortunately, with the very high volume devices that this type of scheme might be intended on protecting and the economics of piracy, it's unlikely that determined thieves with big bank accounts to bribe folks in low-cost countries will be able to ultimately resist the temptation.

  51. In other news... by dragisha · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hundreds of thousands personal (and not so personal) computers locked themselves today after rogue group of Mongolian hackers stole keychain from, as evidence shows, not so secure vaults at "EPIC Security Ltd.". EPIC security guards went high alert, but they failed to act in time before Mongols (riding bareback and yelling) departed.

    EPIC Security Ltd. issued security update and instructions for unlocking targeted computers. Users just have to bring their computers (or if it's easier for them only their CPU's - very small chips with very many pins underside)to EPIC Security Ltd.'s premises or nearest servicing outlet.

    List of outlet's is sent directly by email to every user targeted.

    --
    http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
  52. And when would this separate run be made? by Animaether · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Unless the fab has unused capacity / lines to produce these chips based on other dies/masks separately, they're going to have to swap dies / masks out when they want to produce their 'pirate' copies. This swap-out takes time. Calibration takes time. It also increases the likelihood of errors; not just in the 'pirate' copies but also in the originals when they switch back. A fab is going to explain this odd higher failure rate to their customer, how?

    At best somebody within the company could take the design and contract manufacture of it out to a smaller fab or sister fab that isn't booked by the same customer, and have them manufacture it during the same time the originals are produced. That'd be less noticeable, but it would also be more expensive - as the customer isn't footing part of the bill for that shadow fab.

  53. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by pitchpipe · · Score: 4, Funny
    Not only EPIC FAIL, maybe we could have this chip report you to a patent offenders registry where all of the other chips that are using EPIC could deny your using them to prevent further patent abuse.

    Hurries and puts bleeding child in car. Turns key...
    "I'm sorry sir, your patent offenders registry status prevents you from starting this car."
    But car, I need to get to the emerg... "I'm sorry sir, your patent offenders registry status prevents you from starting this car."
    Oh fuck it!
    Dials phone
    "I'm sorry sir, your patent offenders registry status prevents you from dialing this phone. Please seek the assistance of a non-offender in...

    --
    Look where all this talking got us, baby.
  54. Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by yakovlev · · Score: 3, Informative

    I read the paper (thanks for the link.) I wouldn't say they cover this thoroughly. In fact, I'd argue that they handwaved this, even though it is the most likely and most important attack vector.

    They argue that modifying masks is a problem, which may be true. However, there are several stages of design data before the masks, and I would expect that a corporate-level pirate could have access to something early enough in the process that it could be modified by someone skilled in the art. Design data is probably transfered to the FAB as a flattened layout, with no circuit/design hierarchy. However, it should be possible for someone who knows the chip interfaces related to this unlocking mechanism to work backwards from them and find where to tie things off to make the chip work. The labor cost would probably be pretty low compared to the cost of prepping a second mask to manufacture the modified chips.

    1. Re:Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by smackt4rd · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how those big overseas fabs operate, but you can always have a 3rd party company make the mask, and then have them send that to the fab. It'd be a nightmare trying to reverse engineer something from a mask.

    2. Re:Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by LarsG · · Score: 3, Informative

      However, it should be possible for someone who knows the chip interfaces related to this unlocking mechanism to work backwards from them and find where to tie things off to make the chip work.

      From my quick glance a the paper it looks like they scatter a bunch of XOR gates around the chip in non-fastpath areas. Chip won't work correctly unless those gates are set correctly. Those settings are transmitted to the chip using some sort of pki.

      Even if you identify all the XOR gates, you'd have to brute-force test all combinations. 2^64 can get expensive really fast, especially if you only have access to the masks and have to manufacture test-chips instead of running the brute-force in a software simulation.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    3. Re:Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by quo_vadis · · Score: 1

      Actually, you dont. Since the Per-chip ID (what they call the RCK) is implemented using electronically programmable fuses, all a good reverse engineer has to do is reset the fuses . This has been demonstrated possible via UV light combined with selective stripping of upper metal layers (eg : http://www.flylogic.net/blog/ ). Yes I do realize that the chips shown on the site are slightly older technology, but keep in mind that it is slightly easier to reset electrical fuses as the feature size goes down ( as the gate is thinner). Also, the chips on that site are crypto chips, so they have additional safeguards (meshes etc).

      The fundamental problem is that the RKC is an easily known factor. If a pirate fab can steal one valid RKC they can simply use known techniques to ensure the RKC's for all pirate chips are the same. The current way to implement truly random keys especially for crypto chips is to use PUFs (physically unclonable functions). This consists of something like doping the top layers of the silicon with some metallic crystals that affect the capacitance, and having capacitance sensors on the bottom of the chip. The initial values of the capacitance are recorded on a small 1 time programmable ROM. Any physical attack on the chip (trying to remove packaging to use a laser, FIB, probe etc) will change the capacitance that will shut off / damage chip permanently. However something like this is probably too expensive to justify for simple ASICs, for which amortized design costs work out to a few pennies.

      --
      Legally obligatory sig : My opinions are my own... etc etc
    4. Re:Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by IdeaMan · · Score: 1

      Actually, why not add in a way to read back the state of each of the lines going to the xor gates via say an undocumented register. Ship one batch to the manufacturer for authorization, buy it from a vendor, read the code out and you're done.

      Another solution is to wire-bond a very small microcontroller onto the pins that listens for the encryption code and writes it to EEProm memory. Microchip makes some processors that would work nicely for that. All it takes is one of those custom fabricated spychips to record the authorization code. You don't need to change any masks at all.

      --
      They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
    5. Re:Actual paper does NOT cover this attack well. by yakovlev · · Score: 1

      Your first suggestion is an excellent attack, and not one I had considered. Instead of making chips that act different, ship chips that act the same (except for when a certain undocumented switch is set), but have a hidden way to read the hidden data. This would be more work than just tying off gates, but not THAT much more work. Once you get one of these signed, you can use the data discovered to defeat unsigned chips.

      I'm not convinced the second suggestion would work. A key here is that they're using an on-chip random number generator to prevent replay attacks. Either 1.) the random number generator needs to be defeated (to allow replay attacks), 2.) the "patent-holder" key has to be discovered (not likely with a technological attack) or 3.) the unlocking mechanism has to be altered. I was advocating #3, but your suggestion to ship altered chips to be signed would be a good way to defeat #1.

  55. This has got one of the most stupid ideas ever by billsf · · Score: 1

    If and only if this is your thing -- Seems more bother to back-engineer a chip than to do it clean. But buy chip, make masks, layer by layer, fab a run of chips, activate all as one.... Sound familiar? "Stolen blueprints" (actually film) doesn't sound all that likely. Besides it would be exceedingly easy to be caught doing that. Getting the API for an ASIC seems as criminal as it gets, but I'm no expert on China.

    If a manufacturer refuses to reveal a digital chip, getting the API from the commercial driver reverse-engineering is another more sensible approach. Analogue fakes can be revealed by testing. A fake is highly unlikely to be as good as the real thing. (Think cola.)

    Finally, if someone actually got the real "blueprints", the nature of the crypto could be determined by experts in that field. Someone said: "DRM", this might actually beat it out for lameness.

    1. Re:This has got one of the most stupid ideas ever by LarsG · · Score: 1

      Seems more bother to back-engineer a chip than to do it clean.

      Semiconductor Inc. in the US designs a new flash memory chip.
      They license production to a fab in China.
      Fab pays licensing fees for 5 million chips.
      Fab produces 7 million chips, selling 2 million on the grey market. Alternatively, unfaithful employee of fab sells chip masks to other fab.

      Anyway, reversing a blueprint isn't that straight forward. In terms of software, the blueprint is hand-tweaked machine code that you need to reverse to high level language source code. In case of generic components (ram, flash, etc), it is a lot more cost efficient to simply copy the masks ("blueprints") and make exact duplicates.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
  56. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by andy_t_roo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    atleast until the people with the hundred million$ plans, and the billion $ chip plant spend a few hundred thousand on analyzing the plans to find the few transistors that do this and take them out, making pre-unlocked chips. - if a bunch of random hackers can do over current DRM, there's not much chance that this would last.

  57. Watermarks DRM by IdeaMan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    *Add* something instead. Add in a fusible link that would disable the protection scheme.
    It would have to be subtle enough to pass inspection by the original mask creators.

    Instead of creating a bogus, complicated and expensive DRM scheme, just introduce a watermark onto the mask. Use the watermark to identify which manufacturer is selling the extra chips.

    The counter of course is the good ole compare blueprints trick. However then we're back to what you mentioned before, the calibration expense issue.

    --
    They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
  58. So what, I don't see how that would help. by John+Sokol · · Score: 1


    Unless that lock is stored in some sort of (electric charges) basically flash memory on chip, there is nothing to stop someone from copying that chip with it's combination lock and all.

      How would a manufactured be able to know the difference between a real chip vs. a knockoff. If (physical)electrically digital circuits both are identical including the locking mechanism. So there shouldn't be any protection.

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  59. Ready, Fire, Aim! by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    TFA states that this is targeted toward chips made from stolen plans. If the differences are so easily layered onto existing chip designs, surely someone sophisticated enough to have a chip manufacturing plant tossing off copies would be able to just NOT include those switches or have them there but to no effect. yes?

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  60. Piracy is punishment for greed by billcopc · · Score: 1

    Chip "piracy" is the direct result of greedy companies outsourcing the family jewels to low wage countries.

    If the chips didn't have such a high resale value and profit margin, there would be little incentive to pirate them in the first place. Adding DRM at the hardware level only serves to increase manufacturing costs by some fractional amount, it doesn't do anything to address the filthy lucre that attracts pirate manufacturing in the first place. Same reason as people sell dope despite the (government-created) risks : there's a ton of money to be made, selling a product with huge margins and constant demand. It's a no-brainer, from a business perspective.

    When the profit of a single item exceeds your weekly income tenfold, how can you fault these people for taking advantage of the situation ? I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were in their shoes!

    If we truly want a global marketplace, we're going to need a level playing field... none of this modernized slave labor bullshit. Technological security measures are no match for human desperation.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  61. Part of testing? by localroger · · Score: 1

    Testing for CPU chips is already quite time consuming and authentication wouldn't add much to it. If this is for lower level crap like USB-flash interface chips then not so much.

    --
    Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
  62. I dare you to ask me to defeat it. by xkr · · Score: 1
    I have worked in this field for 30+ years. The idea as described has merit. It has been discussed extensively before. For example, one of the major arguments in favor of field programmable gate arrays (FPGAs), such as made by Xilinx and Actel, is that the designs are harder to steal.

    Indeed, a large number of high value chips are commonly forged and sold in places like China and the Philippines where it is not economically feasible to enforce the law, even if the local law were favorable to the original owner. One might argue that much of the lost business would never have been paying customers (as is overwhelmingly true for stolen software), but companies such as CISCO have clearly lost billions of real sales in these countries.

    There are well known technologies, such as SEM that can see the actual voltages at nodes inside an operating chip. The implementation would have to be quite tricky to block all known methods to read-out the "combination lock" of single a authorized chip. At one time we had to reverse engineer the "security" algorithm of one of the FPGA companies, for a valid internal business purpose. It took us only a few days to break their code and build hardware to not only replicate, but also add our own proprietary, automated chip serialization algorithm. The company was very unhappy with with us, but the whole idea that they had "secure" chips was joke.

    I think a better system would be to implement a much more robust external key+challenge system like on the very best smart cards and security dongles, then buy and install a tiny key chip in final equipment, where the entire key is made by company whose only product was security.

    I knew a guy who made these decades ago inside of "blue boxes" (don't ask). The electronics were potted along with a capsule of acid. Mechanical attempts to get to the ICs were just about guaranteed to dissolve everything. Even so, I think it would take today's hackers about a week to figure out a way around that system.

    But just because chip counterfeiting is a constant game of spy v. spy doesn't mean that one side has to give up.

    --
    I will create a sig when innovation restarts in the U.S.
  63. Uhh... by cigawoot · · Score: 1

    There's a few things about this. 1) This isn't about end user DRM. Its about patent holders on chip designs being able to protect their property from less then scrupulous manufacturers. 2) The end user, in theory, will NEVER see this. 3) If its an inconvenience to manufacturers, this'll have to be something they'll have to discuss to the patent holder. 4) Stop putting on the "omg its stealth user DRM" hats, not worth it.

  64. subliminal message by soulfury · · Score: 1

    I looked at the pics in the article, and I saw that they were giving us a four-letter subliminal message.

  65. Control from Conception and Stolen Algorithm by Woundweavr · · Score: 1

    This proposal just doesn't make any sense.

    "Each would also have the ability to produce its own at least 64-bit random identification number that could not be changed." Unless quantum computing has made some jumps I'm unaware of, no it can't. Since we're assuming malfeasance from the start of the manufacturing of the chip, I can see no possible way for this to be true. The factory can adjust the process. They will control the vertical, the horizontal, and the clock. A single activation for this 'lock' will apply to each key. The means by which this ID is stored is also not clear. If its burned into by the chip itself on generation/activation, the same code can be burned into the chip by the process by which the chip is manufactured. If its encrypted and stored, it is subject to the same man-in-the-middle problems as any DRM type encryption. Assuming these are "inside jobs", the chip manufacturer would even have tens or even hundreds of thousands of examples of this lock-key pairing on which to base a crack.

    Also, the idea that this additional gates won't change performance or energy usage is wrong on its face. The change may not be significant, but it exists.

    Finally, if the blueprint can be "stolen" (although its probably not stolen but improperly used by overseas manufacturers in most cases), why can't the encryption algorithm? Even if this technique would work, a single employee willing to sell the secret for 6 or even 7 figures, a single back door in the system, or any of a dozen other ways could make the entire process useless.

    Remember, this isn't to get someone a free DVD or even to sell one title on the street. V(Pirated Ipod) > V(Pirated Hannah Montana song)

    1. Re:Control from Conception and Stolen Algorithm by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

      "Each would also have the ability to produce its own at least 64-bit random identification number that could not be changed." Unless quantum computing has made some jumps I'm unaware of, no it can't. Since we're assuming malfeasance from the start of the manufacturing of the chip, I can see no possible way for this to be true. The factory can adjust the process. They will control the vertical, the horizontal, and the clock. A single activation for this 'lock' will apply to each key. The means by which this ID is stored is also not clear. If its burned into by the chip itself on generation/activation, the same code can be burned into the chip by the process by which the chip is manufactured. If its encrypted and stored, it is subject to the same man-in-the-middle problems as any DRM type encryption. Assuming these are "inside jobs", the chip manufacturer would even have tens or even hundreds of thousands of examples of this lock-key pairing on which to base a crack.


      Even if they could produce thousands of chips that all require the same activation, that wouldn't help them since they wouldn't ever get a single activation.

      Finally, if the blueprint can be "stolen" (although its probably not stolen but improperly used by overseas manufacturers in most cases), why can't the encryption algorithm? Even if this technique would work, a single employee willing to sell the secret for 6 or even 7 figures, a single back door in the system, or any of a dozen other ways could make the entire process useless.


      Because the blueprints must be given to every fab that's going to make the chip. On the other hand, the keys needed to unlock the chips need never be given to anyone. They can be locked into one or more physical smartcards and never, ever seen by human eyes.
  66. um, wait a minute... by drDugan · · Score: 1

    I read a lot of people stating in this forum "it's bad" and "it's a problem" when referring to the fact that people in other parts of the world illegally obtain a set of information and sell a product based on that information.

    I ask, "bad for whom?"

    Let's back up. The whole fiction of intellectual property exists for a very good reason. Within a society, there needs to be a way to reimburse creative works when the result of those works is primarily intellectual in nature: artistic expressions, brands, and inventions. So, as a society, have this socially understood and agreed-upon deal, that looks different for copyright, trademarks and patents but at the core the deal is the same: exclusivity to profit for some time in return for the intellectual result.

    The problem I see with the "it's bad" assertions in this case that as a whole globe, there is no shared society, and there is no socially understood deal about fictitious property, globally. Maybe humans will get there someday - and have some shared agreement of global humanity with common norms and behaviors and laws. WIPO aside, and efforts to get there notwithstanding, . . . personally, I think that in that kind of world it means there is only one right way to live, and I think that will be bad for humans. I think having different places, different countries, (maybe someday different planets) where the rules and norms and languages are entirely separate and distinct - is a very good thing. Such diversity makes us more robust as a species. Tough noogies if that makes mega-corporate globalized business more challenging.

    To answer my rhetorical question above, the balance of what intellectual property is today so far swayed toward the interests of large corporate organizations, the answer seems pretty clear to me - this kind of theft is bad for very large corporations - basically the only entities who would realistically be hurt by lack of sales from patent infringement in distant regions of the world. For everyone else, 'it's just business.'

  67. I've got a question by Thanshin · · Score: 1

    I hope there's people who still reads yesterday news. The question is:

    How much behind the highest chip technology is the best product a geek can do at home by connecting standard components?

    i.e.: Is there a large amount of people capable of "building" a 486 processor with neutral components? If they finally find a way of making physical DRM work, how much slower would be the the "Open Electronics" alternative?

  68. Problems with the scheme. by 0ptix · · Score: 1

    The original paper has a comment that upon activation the keys will be automatically burnt permanently into the chip in an Electronic Fuse Unit to avoid multiple activations.

    However there is another problem with this. The whole scheme relies heavily on a good supply of randomness. But obviously one can not rely on the actual fabricator to supply this randomness since they are they adversary in this setting. Thus the only solution seems to be to supply each and every chip with it's own true random number generator. (Again a PRNG is not good enough for this application since even these need to get a truly random seed from somewhere.) I see two problems with this assumption. First adding a TRNG to each and every chip will increase there costs directly proportional to it's relative security. A second more significant problem is that this provides a much easier avenue of attack then removing the entire security mechanism from the blueprint. Namely all that is requires is to "break" the TRNG. For example it could be shorted to always produce the same sequence. I am sure that this would be significantly easier then removing the entire EPIC circuitry.

    There are also problems with how the cryptographic tools are used. The paper states that the common key (CK) which unlocks _all_ chips for a given blueprint _regardless of their randomness_ is the be signed by the IP holder and then encrypted with the public key of each chip instance. But then nothing stops a rouge manufacturer from generating their own key pair, sending the public key to the IP holder, and decrypting the response with the private key. This would give the the CK signed under the IP holders public key which they could use to activate any new chip from that blueprint!!

    Luckily this bug has an easy fix. Reverse the order of signature and encryption. That is the IP holder should sign the cipher text not the plain text.

  69. Problem I see is.. by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

    ..that like any good lock or alarm system, the best it will do is stop the casual pirate/thief, and slow down a talented and persistant one. I've heard tell of chip pirates that will actually carefully remove the outer casing on an IC they want to copy, and analyze the actual silicon to get their copy. No reason why they couldn't do that, then engineer their way around the locking mechanism.

  70. Let me guess... by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

    ... only Vista and Mac OS X and later can unlock this crap? This is a petty excuse for fscking customers... again!

    The FSF needs to alter it's plans for Defective By Design and broadcast a commercial on television, or something like that. They have a shitload of money, so let the mainstream know about this. Whatever they do, they need big publicity for this issue. Our daily lives ride on hard- and software, our very infrastructure is built on it, so FLOSS gets more important every day. This is not just me being a open source fanboy, this is realy important.

    --
    Here be signatures
  71. Outsourcing is simply trade by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You do it every day. Do you manufacture your own bread? Butter? Do you manufacture your own hardware components? No, because someone else can do it better and cheaper.

    --
    Deleted
  72. Does nobody learn? by EdMack · · Score: 1

    For goodness sake. We've seen the 'your equipment has a cryptographic lock' scheme in every DRM solution, and we've seen them all fail for the simple reason that the provider must hand you the key. Why is this naive re-hash of history interesting?

    --
    puts ("Python r0cks\n");
  73. Intelligent Design by rgaginol · · Score: 1

    See.... I was right all along... Intelligent Design is the most believable theory, we just don't, ummm, have the key to the DNA. God doesn't seem to be answering calls... but his receptionist has the most lovely voice.

  74. Re:Intul Inside! Powered by AMB! by Alsee · · Score: 1

    Intul Inside! Powered by AMB!

    Hell, I'm willing to pay twice the price to buy Intul Inside! Powered by AMB! Featuring an Untrusted Computing Platform Module!

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  75. Re:Intul Inside! Powered by AMB! by m50d · · Score: 1
    Okay, show of hands, who has a pirated processor? Anyone? Anyone?

    In all seriousness, how would you tell?

    --
    I am trolling
  76. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    Nice fantasy. You should spin it up into a SF short story.

  77. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by Proteus+Child · · Score: 1

    Something like this is part of the mythos of Tales of the Afternow. In the storyline, because so much of the world is covered by draconian copyright laws and DRM, attempting to dodge the restrictions is a punishable, sometimes capital offense (as is creating unlicensed works).

    --

    Proteus' Child

    Doko ni datte; hito wa, tsunagette iru.

  78. Better Pirated Chips? by swb311 · · Score: 1

    So in other words, we would then be able to buy better pirated chips that lack the locking "feature"? Sign me up!

  79. Chip piracy != music piracy by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Chip piracy is a big problem.

    My company got burned by it a few years ago. We had an 8 channel DAC (the MAX5308) in our design which didn't have a drop in replacement from another vendor. We needed some parts, and the lead times from Maxim were too long, so we contacted some distributors and found someone who had these parts.

    We had a bunch of boards built, and we started getting a high failure rate, which we traced back to the DAC. A closer inspection of the part revealed it had a date code that was before the actual release date of the chip! We contacted Maxim and stopped payment on the parts. Maxim took some parts for evidence (and I believe sent us a few samples to tide us over).

    We were building $14000 units that were being deployed in military communications systems.

    It turns out the counterfeits were coming from Asia. The distributor in question probably knew that the chips were counterfeit and looked the other way.

    Semiconductor companies put a lot of effort in making sure there products are reliable. (If a PC board has 100 parts, what failure rate is acceptable in your chips before you start to have very bad yield issues? What if it's 1000 parts?). We, as a society, have come to count on things being reliable, and real danger can result when their not. It's not as bad as counterfeit pharmaceuticals, but it's not so far off either.

    I don't know if this scheme will work or not. But it's a real problem, with real consequences.

    --
    It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    1. Re:Chip piracy != music piracy by nikolag · · Score: 1

      It is a problem, but don't You think that the same scenario can (and most likely will) happen but his time, You will get the codes also counterfeited form that same distributor? Or maybe removed by that same producer?

      I work with a medical device worth about $900.000,00 and the surface of the table for patients can be dissolved with normal, medical grade alcohol or similar liquid. We found out about that after wiping the blood stain from it. Now we have erosions and discolorations on the surface.
      On the other side, part of equipment if reported to service center 75 days ago. What do You think, will they extend the warranty period or change that table because it cannot be cleansed?

      I bet they'll just ignore us. They have our money. And I remember the bill for replacement of desktop mouse for workstation on the old machine (made by Sun, not by them)... $1000,00 plus tax.

      It is the standards and expectations that go down, not up.

      --
      Doing a good job is like spilling coffee on a dark suit, you feel warm all over, but nobody notices.
    2. Re:Chip piracy != music piracy by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call that piracy. It sounds more like counterfeiting and fraud.

      Piracy would be copying (which is not stealing unless you simultaneously destroy the original) the designs and creating your own product with it and distributing it under your own name, while also not making any claims of being the original creator of the designs.

      Piracy isn't about deceiving, only about copying. Deception being acts such as falsly representing the source of a product you are distributing, or claiming that you are the original source of a design.

      Of course, it is in the current powers interest that piracy is confused with these other crimes to make the piracy part look bad. So when someone is commiting two crimes where one of them is piracy, the crime as a whole is incorrectly called piracy.

    3. Re:Chip piracy != music piracy by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 1

      Piracy isn't about deceiving, only about copying.
      I agree with your assessment, that the use of word "piracy" in this article is misleading, and conflates what's happening with copying music.

      The basic procedure is :

      1) Get schematic or mask layout or actual masks of some hot IC

      2) Do quick and dirty production of the IC, don't bother to test it, and mark it like the genuine article

      3) Sell it to a distributor willing to look the other way.

      Step 1 could be considered "piracy", I suppose, but it's step's 2 and 3 that really do the damage. It's a combination of "piracy" and counterfeiting. In the IC biz, it's called counterfeiting.

      --
      It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
  80. Uhm... by mrex · · Score: 1

    If I understand this correctly, it relies on physical differences being built into each physical example of the same chip design.

    So, if I'm the manufacturer of these chips, presumably I'm going to have to know how to design each physical example, which means I will know what the differences between them are, which means that I will know which parts of the design make up the "lock", which means I will be able to omit that lock from the design if I choose.

    What am I missing?

  81. Actel ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  82. The idea seems good, but I'm missing something... by CodeShark · · Score: 1
    Okay, so let's say that a company starts using EPIC type stuff in their chip layouts, and it's all
    transparent to me the end user, can't be used for underhanded DRM, etc. I'm also buying off on the
    idea that with a unique key combination for the chip/board combo etc. kept by the manufacturer would
    be a great way to block a "pirate" chip from being used, etc.


    But I don't see any way to secure an "EPIC" chip after the fact unless the "unlock" is burned into PROM
    circuitry, and I don't know if there is any way for a patent holder to use a 'Net connection in a
    manufacturing facility quickly enough to be useful and still secure enough to prevent an unscrupulous
    set if engineers from reverse engineering how the combinations work and duplicating it offline.


    Thoughts?

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  83. Boo-fucking-hoo by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    Outsource everything overseas and golly gee, just look at the unintended consequences. If you kept things over here in the States, you'd have greater control of the process and not have to worry about knock-offs. Suck it up and reap the whirlwind, motherfuckers.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  84. plaintext ID controversery some years ago by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I remember a huge uproar when Intel had a unique chip ID retrievable by software. This was intended to assist internet advertising and decrease chip piracy. Privacy advocates said this would cause computer tracking and Big Brother. (Since then hardware ethnet numbers turned out to be almost the same thing.)

  85. Hmmmm by professorguy · · Score: 1
    A world without cellphones and the other million pocket-sized public life eliminators? I don't know, it actually sounds pretty good to me.

    I'm not a Luddite because I love technology (I have an '03 Master's in IT from Harvard) and I'm making a living in the IT industry. But for what it is worth, I have never owned any of the devices you mention (gaming devices, music players, cell phones).

  86. Re:When it detects that it's a pirate copy, it say by JoelKatz · · Score: 1

    You miss the huge difference between this and DRM. DRM requires the unlocking to be done in the presence of and under the control of the attacker. This does not.

    The reason DRM will never be fundamentally secure is because you are trying to lock out and let in the exact same group of people. With this, that is not the case.

    The point of this mechanism is to make it as difficult as possible to "find the few transistors that do this" and further to make the chip inoperative if you "take them out". The result will not be "pre-unlocked chips" but useless chips.

  87. Cool Idea by Nekozen · · Score: 1

    This idea seems quite ingenious.

    Based on people's comments, there is a lot of confusion about how this locking works. It's not a DRM scheme, once activated, the chip is permanently activated because the unlocking codes are burnt into the chip.

    The locks are intended to keep manufacturers from producing extra chips during off hours and selling them on the black market. The designers will know and control how many chips are unlocked per day, which they will be able to confirm when the chips are shipped.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that the locking works by introducing noise into the chip using xor gates distributed throughout the chip.

    To activate the chip, the fab must send the chip's code to the designers, they then generate the unlocking code, which is easy for the designer to generate because they know how the chip locking works. The unlocking code is then burnt into the chip, which fixes the dispersed xor gates to the correct values.

    The fab can't easily reverse engineer this chip design because they are not given the original schematics, they're only given the masks which are used to directly make the chips (which I'm assuming are supplied by the designer).

    Of course, this can be broken, but hopefully it will make chip piracy less cost effective, which will ensure that the genuine articles are able to compete.

  88. Re:Intul Inside! Powered by AMB! by freedomlinux · · Score: 1

    raises hand

    I downloaded it on BitTorrent -- genuine UltraSPRC