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Why Microsoft Won't Have Blu-ray on the Xbox
Ian Lamont writes "Ever since Toshiba stopped production of HD DVD players, many Xbox 360 owners have been wondering when Microsoft will offer some sort of Blu-ray option for the Xbox 360. The answer: Probably never. Microsoft's product manager for the Xbox 360 has told Reuters that Microsoft is not in talks with Sony or the Blu-ray Association. Why not? The Industry Standard points to HDi, an obscure Microsoft technology that was part of the HD DVD interactivity layer. HDi may be dead on physical media, but it could potentially be applied to other Microsoft HD-compatible technologies such as Xbox Live Arcade and Windows Media Center, and be part of a long-term play to own a big share of the market for HD content delivered over the Internet."
Have you ever seen Microsoft Office for Linux (w/o any emulator like Wine)?
Nobody is ever going to support a product from a direct competitor (or backed by a direct comepetitor) . Microsoft & Sony are direct competitors.
"The New Age. The New Beginning."
Profit is profit is profit is profit, so why would they not take the opportunity to have an overpriced blueray disc player accessory for the 360? Doesn't seem like sensible business practices to me.
I guess the recent poll was wrong then. "who cares" was not the correct answer.
No monopolist is ever going to support a product from a direct competitor. Plenty of other companies do so. Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung all directly compete in many of their core markets. Yet they also often adopt and support technologies developed by one another. The difference? None of them are monopolies and accustomed to monopolistic control in a market.
I recently bought a Wii. I've been trying to lose a few pounds with the Wii Fit controller. No weightloss so far, but my balance is much better.
Anywho. I popped in a DVD the other day to see if it could play. Not at all, apparently.
I wish I could use the console as a DVD player (or BluRay player, or whatever) as well as a game device.
Apple would have called it iHD so Microsoft had to call it HDi
:P
Dibs on PODi and TUNEi!
-> I use my TUNEi to fill my PODi
Goodbye Slashdot. You've changed.
I was hoping Microsoft would come around with a Blu-Ray solution, so that I can get my game system AND Blu-Ray player in one go. Looks like I'll have to pony up for a PS3 if I want that.
Can't say I'm the biggest fan of MS technologies, but I will say that I think they did a pretty decent job with HDi (all of the menus, animations, bookmarks and other interactive features on an HD DVD are done using it). I'm sure there are any number of other companies who could've done the same thing, too. But if MS wants to use this technology for downloadable videos, then I'm all for it. It'd be nice to actually have a downloadable video that has menus and chapters and the other niceties that we've grown used to.
This guy's the limit!
Ummm, because like others have said, the war is not over. Blu-ray discs still have to compete with digital distribution. Even Gates mentioned at CES. They've partnered with quite a few places (One is Disney!) so they will likely pursue downloads through their Live marketplace, including HD content before trying to license something from a competing console.
The trouble is, there is no open source alternative, but even if it existed, all these companies including Microsoft will not use the alternative.
The media the games come on is irrelevant, Nintendo proved success is possible with an unusual format.
Microsoft also has stated they are trying to move toward a content-download type system, so the physical media would, again, be irrelevant.
As others have said, there may be a standalone Blu-ray player in the future, but I think MS thinks they simply don't need it. And Ballmer himself has said no Blu-ray for Xbox, of course that's not really worth much and could change with the market.
http://www.crn.com/digital-home/206903456
This seems like a bad idea to me. I would assume that a lot of gamers will just buy a PS3 as their BluRay player, in absence of a 360 add on, now that HDDVD is dead. At least that's my most likely course of action. If the PS3 ends up getting a decent selection of games, it is just going to cause MS to lose market share where they previously would have taken all of my gaming money.
This is SUN vs. MicroSoft
(BD-J vs. HDi aka MSJava Script)
Java is the platform for the world wide distribution of IPTV.
I don't think that MS will be pushing anything that competes with their version of a Java virtual machine much less include a Sony product in their 360.
(the final offer by MS and Toshiba to prevent a format war was the inclusion of HDi... Sony and Sun walked away)
While it makes Cents that they should, I don't think they will.
Another reason for not including Blu-Ray capabilities... Like I'd be able to hear the movie?
This isn't a troll. I love my 360, I do. But I've used it to watch DVDs and stream videos from my laptop, and honestly, even in the most well-ventilated of spaces, the console is just too loud for me to enjoy it as a media center at all.
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
Microsoft may well take charge of online HD content distribution, but what about games on the 360? Surely those can't be downloaded, as you'd need tons of space, right? If they choose not to adopt Blu-Ray, then how will they keep up with the PS3 in terms of next gen games? By limiting themselves to dual layer DVDs, don't they risk being overtaken by superior offerings on the PS3? We've heard Kojima say that MGS4 can barely fit on a Blu-Ray disk, so that must mean the 360 is screwed, right? In a few years when developers start to fully utilise the vast amounts of space available on Blu-Ray disks, I can forsee the 360 being left behind and fading into obsolescence - unless Microsoft decides to act. Adopting Blu-Ray may seem counterproductive for Microsoft's business interests, but if they want the 360 to survive, I can't really see any other options for them. They're gonna have to support Blu-Ray eventually.
With HD-DVD being more or less dead, we can safely assume that consumer HDDVD writers will never happen, and the number of plants around the world capable of mastering HD-DVDs will be very few. What better way to drastically reduce the amount of piracy on a platform than by using a media format that relatively few people are able to produce?
I have a 360. I have the HD-DVD drive for my 360 because I want to play HD content (Microsoft clearly recognizes this market segment exists, why else create the HD DVD drive in the first place). Now instead of buying a Microsoft brand 360 Blu-ray Player, I will be buying a Playstation 3. Seems like a brilliant plan on Microsoft's part - if they wanted me to buy a competing product.
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Their next gaming console will have to have some kind of optical drive in it. And DVD isn't big enough anymore an the 12X spin rate needed to get good transfer rates also is one of the things that makes their console annoyingly loud.
They'll have to use a new optical format for the next Xbox, and with HD-DVD dead it seems to mean they have to use BluRay.
And for those who want to say you'll get your games over the next, I really can't see that in the next 2-3 years. By the end of the next console's lifetime (6+ years) it seems pretty natural though.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Looks like MS is going to be doing exactly what MS always does. The new Xbox is gonna have an MS-proprietary, oddball, incompatible-with-everybody-else's-standard, optical drive technology that nobody else will adopt or inter-operate with.
Is there a good reason why MS can't just develop their own drive which is capable of playing Sony discs?
Wasn't HDi one of the main bones of contention that caused the schism in the first place? I remember reading Microsoft wanted to enter the consumer software market on the back of HDi should HDDVD have won. Look up the supporters of the HDDVD from a computer industry perspective, you will find that the Wintel camp went with HDDVD.
life is all about searching and sorting
Reading the article (yes foreign for slashdot) it says that they can use the HDi for other things. My money says they're planning some form of distribution down to the road via X-Box live perhaps? Especially now that vendors like NetFlix do online video rental.
Of course, with HD content you have the not so insignificant issue of transferring many Gigabytes of data for any feature length content, and how many of them could you store on a stock 360?
In any case, this is probably a boneheaded move destined to backfire.
Pay-per-view.
Yep, as in, MS' technology now completes with the cable company's product. So, do you think that cable companies are going to roll out fiber to everyone's door just so MS, Apple, Blockbuster and Netflix can deliver video on demand?
Nope.
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"We're the only console offering digital distribution of entertainment content"
What he really wanted to say-
"We're the only guys who can charge you double the amount that you should be paying for watching a movie at home on your XBox."
You think buying a PS3 makes sense? Instead of a standalone player?
Sorry, I just don't see how what you said makes any sense at all.
Sony vs. Microsoft. I guess Slashdot is going to have to go with Sony. We have been triangulated.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
is how Nintendo is just laughing their asses off at all of this.
that wont be a smart move to use HDi on the media center, what then? customers could only play HDi videos? while the rest of the world plays video in BlueRay? if BlueRay is the new standard for video/movies , while the xbox is ok i guess providing the game manufacturers are willing to implement that format for the xbox. but for media center (HDi) it would be the odd egg since BlueRay seems to be the way the market is going (just a thought)...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Sure if MS doesn't include a Blu Ray drive, it would mean Sony was deprived of some royalties. But at the same time it would negate the one major advantage the PS3 has over the 360 so they'd lose sales. So I think Sony would be quite happy if MS skipped Blu Ray altogether. It would be just another reason for many people to buy a PS3.
XBox Live is about to take a kick in the teeth in Canada. Rogers has announced that they will start capping their bandwidth this June. If you go over it will cost you $2/gig (up to $25) extra per month. Until now we have been fortunate. Not sure if Microsoft has taken something like this change into account especially with higher quality videos creating larger data costs for the end user. At this point if no Blu-Ray player is coming, I go out and buy a separate Blu-Ray player (or PS3) and rent movies than risk going over my limit. I already pay Rogers enough.
What does a person expect a different thing when he/she buys a game console, one of few things which has meaningful competition going on, from Microsoft?
For example, as Apple only Desktop/Server user, I can't stand to iPhone limitations so I go and buy Symbian S60 based handset from Nokia. Is it used easy, clever as iPhone? No. I can say iPhone has a great user experience but I want to have a brand neutral, considerably open platform which allows me to do anything. E.g. I am free to say "S60 browser is junk" and buy/install Opera Mobile (which I did).
There are options like Nintendo, Sony Playstation and others even including a high end PC packaged in small form. (gaming machine)
They have enough monopoly on other things, please don't get prisoned to Microsoft at least on game consoles.
I don't think Microsoft cares that Blu-Ray is Sony's standard, just that it's not Microsoft's standard.
From there, the decision to forget about a high-definition player add-on for this generation makes sense. The attach rate for the HD-DVD drive wasn't very good (typical for a console add-on), but Microsoft was willing to take that hit for the sake of promoting HD-DVD. (Not to mention keeping up with the Playstation 3 Joneses.) A Blu-Ray movie player for 360 would be just another console accessory that doesn't sell enough to justify the cost. (See also: Sega CD)
XBox "720", if it uses an optical drive at all, will probably use Blu-Ray out of necessity. As a baseline for the platform, it will be far easier to justify that cost as upfront R&D.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Microsoft NEVER go with a pre-existing stadard as-is. Its like they feel the need to have their own customized version of everything for some reason. I guess they feel it gives them control of something.
Consequently even if Microsoft licenced Blu-Ray, I'd bet they'd change parts of it somehow to make it their own in some way that would be incompatible with everything else.
Or is it just an "ooh, shiny!" purchase?
I agree and can only find one single competitive advantage for Xbox 360 over the PS3 now that HD-DVD has failed and it's in the past.
The other problem MS need to face is that their options are limited to either make a little profit when they sell me a Blu-Ray add-on or zero profit when I buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player. Both options mean I pay Sony on an on-going basis whenever I buy a Blu-Ray disc, the only difference is that MS make a little profit on only the first option.
There is no profit using HD content-wise:
[1] Xbox Live as Sony has their own on-line market place.
[2] Game developers don't (at the moment) produce different content for different platforms (as in GTA IV is multi-platform using the same release date and game).
If I were MS I'd consider two options:
[1] Medium-term - install HD-DVD drives (which are in themselves DVD drives) and tell everyone we're just getting rid of old stock then start releasing 6-10GB of content so you need to purchase the HD-DVD add-on drive. The customers reason for paying more money - Halo 4.
The down side is this fails in the long-term at the start of the next format war because your HD 1.0 discs don't have the features of the next generation discs.
[2] Long-term - Sell a Blu-Ray add-on then compete and win based on customer experience/ease of use (like Apple) and superior games.
Regards Sinesurfer A Nerd is someone who lives for technology, A Geek is someone who lives for technology and loves it
... Wouldn't you be able to place an existing BluRay Reader (5.25" drive) in an external case and hook it up? I am sure it would have some issues with drivers and decoders, but isn't the 360 at least software hackable in some way? Worst case scenario is you have a drive that can read files off a disc (DivX, MP4, etc.)
I don't see how this couldn't be done... However I am not in any way familiar with the innards of the 360.
This is the real problem - space for games. As you say, Microsoft will be forced to do something, though I'm not sure whether they'll do it for the 360 or for their next-gen. They could actually just use HD-DVD. Just because it's dead for home video doesn't mean they couldn't scavenge it to use as the internal drive for a next-gen console.
Why would Microsoft abandon HD-DVD now that it's got a monopoly on them with Toshiba exiting the market?
Inferior quality and lone support has never stopped Microsoft from exploiting a monopoly position on a technology.
--
make install -not war
Most (all?) Xbox 360 games can be output at HD resolutions. Look at all computer games: they don't use 25GB of storage but they still have up to 2560x1900 resolutions (or whatever those huge LCDs run). So you don't need "HD" discs to have HD output. Hell, you could probably put a few seconds of "HD" video on a floppy disk.
The "HD" discs are just providing more storage so that they can have more music, more cutscenes, more textures, etc.
I know you're just trolling, but you make a very good point, so I'd just like to set the record straight. I am very anti-apple. I am forced to use one at work.
Microsoft will have to adopt the BluRay or lose the game market. Games will begin making use of the expanded space on the BluRays and also as the boxes get older and the competition upgrades to new machines, XBox will have to adapt or die off. M$ may be able to hold off making a decision for maybe 3 years, but if they do, they may find themselves in a very bad place. This is just posturing on M$'s part, or else, they really are losing grip with reality. I predict a boom in the chair manufacturing market in the Northwest. Lastly as XBoxes HD/DVDs begin to die and there are no replacement parts, the resale value will drop into the negative range. They will become worse than 8-track tape players. XBoxes will become the laughing stock of the gaming world. Those who refuse to learn from history will stubbornly repeat it. I see a new aftermarket for upgrading XBoxes to BluRay ... oh wait, that would violate the DMCA. Oops, guess that one is going to backfire...
The best case scenario for digital distribution is that it catches on as well as it has for music, but it won't and here's why. iTunes may sell you DRMed music, but you're still allowed to burn it to a cd, and on top of that you have the iPod which makes the music portable. If you download a movie to your 360, how do you watch it at your friends house?
The only way MS (or Apple for that matter) has any hope of getting people to purchase digital HD movies, is if they have a 500+ GB iPod or Zune with HDMI out. Of course by the time either company puts together such a device, it will likely cost more than the PS3, or most other Blu-ray players.
And as other have mentioned before, ISPs would start shitting bricks if people were legally downloading HD movies all the time.
"It makes perfect sense if you realize that the PS3 is the only really future-proof Blu-ray player on the market right now"
Unless I don't want to waste money on another game machine. And your statement about it being "the only future proof" machine is wrong.
"That, and the fact that it's almost the same price as a stand-alone player"
For now. That won't last more than 3 months and you can quote me when you see I'm right.
So, no, I thought about it and it still doesn't make sense unless I want to waste money on another game machine, in which case, why not just sell the 360 and buy a PS3?
It's not about the video definition - it's about storage capacity and transfer rate. You can't fit a huge dataset with detailed models and textures that really use the raw processing power these consoles have in a DVD disk. More than that - game developers love to be able to pack more data within their games. BD beat HD-DVD both on capacity and transfer rate. The DVD media the stock Xbox is capable of reading isn't even in the same league.
As for video, even the HD offerings that exist now on Apple TV don't come close to the video quality of a HD title on a plastic carrier. Expecting them to send you up to 20 GB of data is ludicrous for now and for the near future. MS may go that route with the next generation consoles but for this one, it's game over. Xbox will have only DVD titles.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
Who the hell is going to buy a Blu-ray player as an accessory that costs, or likely would cost, more than the fully loaded 360? As of Mar 24 2008 an XBox 360 Elite is $449 at Future Shop. The cheapest Blu-ray player they have is $499. Anyone who really must have a Blu-ray unit will by a standalone player, not an Xbox accessory.
If price is your concern, wait 3 months and it won't even be close.
So no, it still doesn't make sense.
"Because the PS3 is (a) one of the cheapest BR players (the other standalones are more expensive) and (b) the only one that is currently upgradable"
That's completely wrong, both the BDP-300 and BDP-500 are upgradeable, and the LG BH-200 is also upgradeable.
As to "one of the cheapest" that's wrong too, there are many that beat it on price, and the price is dropping every day.
http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/blu-ray-hd-dvd-players/p/2065/form_keyword=blu+ray+player/rd=1/mode=g_us_e_s/skd=1/st=query/
I have yet to see a convincing argument that isn't based on misinformation.
So both sides (HD-DVD and BR) patented off all of the basic technology for this generation of optical formats, and the result is, that non of them is really spread.
The only option to get a sane format would be to scrap the patents behind both technologies and let some folks develop an open format, that anyone could use, but we know, that this won't happen.
Another alternative is the online distribution of content, which is also no option, because our broadband network still did not enter the 21st century, and won't do it in the near future.
So what now? Wait for holo-optical media.. But they will probably put up the same shi* with it. So it is as it always comes, the new generation of optical format will spend a decade as living zombie, until nobody cares and then, eventually somebody will adopt it to a sane mainstream. Or maybe not.
<sarcasm> Now that we put so much effort in killing all kind of new technology, why don't we just scrap the whole digital stuff in a whole, and start using paper and pen again. </sarcasm>
Frankly speaking optical media itself is dead now. CD was introduced in 1982 which offered 630 MB of removable storage, something which was totally astonishing. A typical consumer hard disk had capacity of 10 MB and cost was several times more than a CD player. Since then, not much progress has happened in technology. DVD came out 15 years later and offered only 7 times improvement (14 times with
double layer). Now 10 years later, Blu-ray is offering 5 times more capacity. Really, this is not enough. Today, on GB basis, HD's are cheaper than Blu-ray. This had never happened, but now that it has happened, I strongly doubt, Blu-ray can become successful. The only reason, why optical media is surviving is due to unwillingness of media giants to adopt alternatives. All technical advantages of optical technologies are gone. A Beatle Anthology would be cheaper to distribute on USB drive today than on CD, but who cares? Here are few technologies which might limit Blu-ray adoption:
1. Movie download.
2. Video On Demand
3. Portable video player (they don't have HD resolution, so no one would care about HD)
4. Huge installed base of standard DVD
5. Few HD channels and TVs
6. Too many formats (720p, 1080i, 1080p)
7. Too much DRM
8. Cheap HD. I copy all my audio, photo, video on HD and have connected media player (which can read from HD) to TV. There is no chance, I will go back to using disks. As soon as I get a disk, my first task is to transfer to HD and then play at my own will.
9. Not much difference in perceived quality over upscaled standard def content. This happens because, in most houses the TVs are kept at a distance so that people can't see interlace lines. At such high distance, your eye cannot fully resolve HD content. So the difference in perceived quality is not high.
Few months ago, I had 5 DVD players at home. 3 stopped working and I haven't replaced any. The only time, I will buy a Blu-ray device when it price becomes comparable to standard def DVD and all my existing DVD players are dead....
Toshiba is crying. Now it is time for Sony too.
Sure, why not. Except for lost or damaged discs, and the fact that every review is going to say the PS3 version is better because you don't have to change discs mid-game.
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1) MS Stated YEARS ago that HD Media probably would not be market successful because online accessible content would prevail instead. Today this rings true, as HD sales and Rental on XBox Live is very lucrative and most XBox 360 owners didn't give a crap about HD-DVD because they could already access HD Movie content even before you could easily buy an HD-DVD player.
2) MS specifically SUPPORTED HD-DVD based on both jukebox archiving and online concepts that Sony rejected - BluRay would not add to their specification licensing that would allow content to be used 'off the media' - Strangely this is exactly what Sony is now proposing to do with their PSP converter for BluRay so people can take BluRay content on their PSP. If Sony would have open this licensing in the first place MS would never have supported only one of the HD media formats.
3) MS and Sony are competitors, but MS is NOT HD DVD. If MS wanted BluRay they would put in BluRay, as they already provide and license VC1 to Sony because it is a HD Standard that is preferred even in BluRay content distribution.
4) MS now is going forward with its plans for online content distribution.
This is really not news for anyone that has been paying attention.
M$ bought a huge chunk of Corel, and probably control the company these days. I'm never seen any analysis of the fallout of this deal, it was a while ago.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
I understand HD output, I just don't see a true need for HD capacity storage in gaming. I should've been more clear in my post. I've read that a few PS3 titles have filled Blu-Ray discs to capacity, but I don't see the payoff in the content or playability. Meanwhile, games that fit on a paltry DVD are still quite good.
In the coming years, I think HD capacity storage will be necessary for gaming, but right now it isn't being used to its fullest and the teeming masses haven't seen the real payoff. Until the masses have the "Wow, that looks amazing"/HDTV/must-have realization, Microsoft has no need to bother going to Blu-Ray.
Games like Dead Rising will play on an NTSC set, but you'll have to squint really, really hard to read any on-screen text.
For the most part a game machine doesn't need Blu Ray, but I think Microsoft will have Blu Ray drive (within 12 months) to cover the check boxes in their marketing drive against Sony.
Without the Blu Ray drive option, they give up a perceived advantage, that they previously covered with the HD-DVD drive.
Microsoft can have it both ways. Most users won't buy the add on, and MS will get to continue with their downloading service as the choice for the future of viewing.
But to shut down the argument, they will have a drive and they will say again that it is an option which means that unlike sony they aren't forcing it on you.
The more Blu Ray takes off as a format, the bigger this perceived lack will be noted. It is in Microsofts interest to put the BD driver out there ASAP, to end this line of discussion before it really gets off the ground. The drive isn't to make money from, or even to cover a real need. It covers what may be perceived as an increasingly important checkbox.
I consider this a marketing expense and nothing more. I will be surprised if Microsoft doesn't spend the money on this.
Microsoft has never been about attracting customers but rather leaveraging them. Hence, listening to customer feedback isn't really in their DNA. Yes, they will listen to an extent but largely they feel they can gain the same customers through other means so these squeaky wheels will come on board anyway. Let's worry about what our grand scheme is, stay on course, and people will follow out of perceived necessity.
I think the main reason of the "No Blu-ray for XBox" position of MS is their arrogance about the usage of Java, but I have another hypothesis, less probable but a hypothesis in the end: What is the size of the current firmware of the XBox 360? the limits? maybe MS can not add another VM (Java) and continue to support the dead (at least on HD-DVD) HDi (EcmaScript based) for current HD-DVD addon owners without reaching those limits.
My mom called me to help her burn a CD last week. I could barely remember how. Media and storage moved to the web a long time ago.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Just speaking for myself, I like downloading t.v. shows on my DVR. However, Microsoft's alternate fails to see how business is actually done and will at best only be attractive to people who want to buy television shows in HD. As far as films go, how do you think movies make money after the first weekend? They sell physical media once twice or more with continuous "Director's Cuts," "Special Editions," "Fifth Anniversary," etc. that capture the buyer's impulse in a bricks and mortar store for the next couple of decades. Sure, you can have this as downloadable too, but I suspect that the compulsion to buy another version of "Hellboy" will be reduced when you and your spouse can see the other two versions floating in a 52" screen right next to each other.
The HDDVD drive didn't add anything to the Xbox360 gaming experience in any way, the one and only thing it did was allow the 360 to play HDDVD movie disks. My 360 is pretty loud, and I'd rather get a quieter stand-alone movie player to use instead. If movies would be the only benefit of a 360 bluray drive, then I simply do not want one.
I do think that thinking internet download as the one and only exclusive delivery for HD movies, as is rumored to be MS's plan, is a bad idea. I know of too many places where broadband simply isn't available, and of too many people that absolutely cannot afford the continuing monthly expense where it is available, to believe that it's a good idea to make that the only way to get content. People out in the sticks can still have HD equipment. Low income people can afford the occasional purchase, and seem to like buying the occasional expensive thing like a nice TV that maybe they shouldn't have bought but did anyway, but would not be able to keep a fast net connection going for very long. These two groups of people could rent or buy HD movies on physical media from time to time, but would be excluded from broadband internet-only distribution. I don't think it's fair or nice to exclude such people from the market, and I can't understand why MS or any company would be happy doing exactly that.
...seeing as HD-DVD is dead as a movie format, that would make it the PERFECT format for Microsoft to use for their next gaming system.
Think about it. They need more space than DVD9 can hold, right? If blank HD-DVD discs and burners are not going to be manufactured anymore, but Microsoft uses HD-DVD discs for its games...that will certainly help out in their "fight against piracy". It will (should) make things a bit tougher. Not to mention it would give them a format with a much higher capacity than DVD, and the best part is IT'S ALREADY A DEVELOPED TECHNOLOGY! Their R&D costs would be next to nothing, as it's already been done!
If Microsoft were smart (in my opinion, which when it comes to business doesn't amount to much) they would say screw Blu-Ray, we will release all of our Xbox games on HD-DVD, make the box a kick-ass dvd upscaler, and there ya go. Fighting blu-ray with a good dvd upscaler, an already produced format for increased space for games, a format which blank media and recorders are no longer available to the public, and one that would cost significantly less than a console that uses blu-ray technology.
Just my two copper.
Living With a Nerd
Ok, I will go out on a limb condemning HDi when I haven't actually bought an HD-DVD player to use it. It's the wrong thing to get excited about. It's "features for the sake of features" rather than what users are actually screaming for.
Ok, I know that there are people who actually watch all those extra features on the movie disk, who watch the movie again with the crew members doing a commentary, who might love to see it as picture-in-picture. Sure, it can be cool, even though for me, I mostly learn that the deleted scenes were deleted for a reason.
The the real meat of any DVD is the movie, not the extra features. 99% of what we want is the movie. And for the rest, the web itself is a better source of information than interactive menus encoded on the blu-ray disk. Yes, we're all going to have HDTVs, and they're all going to be able to do basic web browsing. A lot better than what you can do on your phone, even if people don't want a keyboard in the living room yet. (I do have an IR keyboard myself and I think it's great, but I can't yet claim everybody will adopt this in time. However, a browser controlled by a remote-with-accelerometer is something I think you will see.)
So forget trying to define some crazy limited standard that is obsolete compared to the web before you release it. Just expect the TV to be able to do basic, non-keyboarded web browsing and have done with it.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
"the ones you mention that are currently upgradable are all much more expensive than the ps3."
BDP-s300
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=bdp+300&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&ref=pd_sl_5szvbymy2k_e
NOT "much more expensive than the ps3" by any measure. Cheaper, or at the top end, the same price. For now.
If you're not going to bother with reading the links I give you and resort to posting falsehoods why would I want to continue discussing this with you?
I'm hard-pressed to spend any money on Blu-Ray technology due to Sony's actions. The $300 million they spent to bribe Warner Bros god knows how much on others, should have been used to cut the cost of players and media, then they could have won the Format war following free market ideals instead of underhanded deals that are now requiring Sony to jack up the prices on everything Blu-Ray to make up the diffrence. I would really like to see the Justice department go after Sony for these pratices. If M$ gets hit with anti-trust violations because they included a useful web browser integrated with thier OS, how does Sony get away with out right bribery to force out the competition?
in a few years, everyone will have broadband, everyone will have a free WiFi AP near by, everyone will have 'name your high speed network here'. Just kidding but I think Microsoft is banking on there being a high speed network for a larger enough market to not have to provide customers with Blu-ray support. After all, the low end of the market isn't going to be using expensive disk technologies either. Now if Blu-ray devices was $100 now, it would probably have them concerned about a huge portion of the market using BD-j and its embedded Java.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
The real reason is that Billy got his pee pee slapped by the market. HD-DVD was less able and less open than Blu-Ray. Worse, it didn't have any microsoft proprietary lockdown technology in it, so had to be gotten rid of. He tried. But Blu-Ray lived and HD-DVD died. Sour grapes. So instead of providing customers an option they might like, nope, M$ decided to be all pissy about it and try and be a drag on the industry, and oh yeah, fuck the customers too. Is there anything I missed? I don't think so.
I don't think space is nearly the problem Sony would have you believe.
PC gaming has been in HD for a over a decade now, the only PC game that needs more than 9 gigs of disk space is Crysis (at 12 gig).
There's no such thing as a standard owned/created by Microsoft. That is an oxymoron. It is also a locking technology. We don't want nor need anything having to do with locking technologies. What's a locking technology? It is a technology used to lock you into Microsoft products. Once you rely on the locking technology it is impossible to use anything else or escape the Windows OS trap.
Bad things come from a monopoly, especially one convicted of criminal anti-competitive predatory practices, that have control of standards. Their technologies should be options, not standards. By virtue of being a monopoly they should not be allowed to control standards as a standards control is a way to prop up a monopoly, which is also illegal.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
"I am very anti-apple. I am forced to use one at work."
Join the party. I'm very anti-MS and I'm forced to use it at work too.
"i can only assume you are an xbox fanboy. no one else would be fighting tooth and nail like you are (replying to multiple people who have pointed out that the ps3 is one of the more smarter purchases for a blu-ray player)"
What a stupid thing to say. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I just might know more about the subject than you (such as you lying about the price of the bdp-s300)?
I can only assume you're a moron because you can't even use google to search for the price of an item that is less than the PS3 but that you claim is "much more expensive".
Perhaps you shouldn't assume anything anymore, especially when the first sentence in your post is a lie.
Too bad it turned that way. the prices on bluray already has gone up.
great screensavers
Seriously, the Xbox 360 is such an over-capitalized ripoff. That's why I went with the PS3, and I'm glad i did :)
Ahh "everyone". Certainly nobody would be stupid enough to live these days without a broadband internet connection to their home. Nevermind that half of the population of the US still lives in what is considered "rural" areas.
I can tell you from experience, there remain little to no options for broadband outside population centers of 20,000 people or more. There are some satelite providers but they are very expensive ($100 for a 1 Mb connection). Not to mention a 40 gb un-upgradable hard drive isn't going to get you very far when you are downloading 10-20 gb games.
I'll say it again - NO MORE LITTLE SHINY DISKS!!!!
What year is it ????
Why would I pay attention to anything you say when you can't even look up the price of a bdp-s300?
Even more, why would I pay attention to what you said when you made things worse by claiming the bdp-s300 was "much more expensive" than a PS3, which is in fact wrong?
We're not talking subjectivities here guy, you made a vociferously worded claim, that could have been easily verified but wasn't, and you were demonstrably wrong.
Why should we think your opinion has any value at all?
The videos are only 720p, the bitrate is not high, and it's a problem to transport the videos to bring to someone else's house to watch (you have to bring your 360) much less another room in the house. You can't purchase movies and keep them, and it costs $6 to rent one. You need a Live account. The selection is not that great. Although it might be a good companion, it's just not a suitable replacement for Blu-Ray.
Twinstiq, game news
"check the reviews on the BDP-300 and see what they say about upconversion and upgradability as compared to the ps3."
I don't need to, I work with all of them daily.
More importantly, you lied and haven't admitted it. Your opinion has no credibility.
They want a proprietary solution. I hear they might implement CowboyNeal HD!!
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
You are comparing apples to oranges. The windows OS is designed to allow third-party applications to run on it for a nominal additional cost (price of a dev kit) to the third party developer. The Xbox is not. Please, examine Microsoft's license terms carefully before you blindly assume the xbox is open.
More specifically, Why let consumers pay for their media once with a blue-ray player when Microsoft and the media distribution cartel can (and will) earn far more money passing it through the xbox?
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
MS cloned java, they want nothing to do with the real thing. Perhaps MS could work with Toshiba to make a C#/CLR/ECMA enabled "standard" HD-DVD and call it "innovation".
They're the only compelling argument for lifting the monopoly label.
The 360 will never use BD for games. It can't. The games have to work for all consoles sold, even the earlier ones. Putting out a HDDVD game would just piss off 10 million 360 owners who only have DVD drives.
Even the HDDVD drive was never intended for more than movie watching. If the 360 is gimped by DVD9, it's gimped. Now the XBox720 on the other hand...
HD-DVD keeled over and turned up it toes and Blu Ray stands back as victorer on Hi-Def scene. But Microsoft are left with a humongous problem: Sony, their worst enemy in the game console area, are the owner of BluRay. So, if Microsoft wants BlueRay on Xbox 360, they have to eat humble pie, they would have to pay license fee to Sony. That will happen when there are 2 Tuesdays on a week.
Microsoft/Toshiba bribed other studios with hundreds of millions to go HD-DVD.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
it really comes down to their total lack of willingness to work with other companies or other products they have flagged as a threat. Blu-ray uses Java and Java is still a threat. Not to mention that adding a Blu-ray to the Xbox 360 will then give everyone a direct comparison to the PS3 on price and Microsoft would have to be willing to lose many billions more to continue to play in the game. As you mentioned, there's a huge population without the ability to get broadband networking. They seem to have made it known that they seem to think the exiting broadband market is enough to push their HDi and leave Blu-ray and BD-j behind.
what they do on the desktop will be the telling.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Microsoft begged Sony for a blu-ray player but Sony didn't want their format on a competing gaming console? Unlikely but a very funny scenario to imagine.
My classic iPod works just fine. Reason: Amarok. Far superior to iTunes.
(You insensitive clod)
Couldn't stand the weather
Myabe Nintendo's not going for that market. MS and Sony have huge reasons to want to be the center of your media hub. Nintendo is happily raking in money being the company you buy the reasonably cheap, hella fun game system you drag over to your friends house to get drunk and play Brawl. As long as Nintendo keeps making fun, awesome game systems they don't need to worry about competing for the heart of the living room, they just want your gaming. The market seems to be backing up their bet on that, and they've been around *alot* longer than their competitors, they are very very good at placing their bets in the gaming arena, I damn well wouldn't so easily dismiss Nintendo
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Doesn't even matter. Joe Public is not going to "hack" his XBox360. For advanced technical users, sure that idea has merit and is a possibility. But for the "common man" that's too much work, and just isn't worth it.
As such, that point is moot. Aside from that, BluRay readers insofar cost as much as a high-end graphics card, and will probably be useless in a few months when "BluRay 3.0" comes out. And yet again, the PS3 will be the only BluRay player.
Sony vs Microsoft? Who cares. I LIKE Windows (at least 2000/XP, Vista I have a few points of contention with) but lets be honest, Microsoft has some upper managment issues. Sony has been trying the same game as Microsoft all these years, just in hardware rather than software.
It would have been "better" for everyone if the PS3 had stuck to DVD/HD-DVD but only for the money. I'm not going to get tottaly into the format debate. The only point that anyone needs to know about BluRay is that Sony (who loves their Rootkits on their CD/DVD drives) is in the control of ONE for-profit corporation, and has already changed 3 times since the 'format war' began. Qualities of BluRay aside, this is a big Lose for the consumer and non-Sony companies that need to use BluRay.
... at the time of writing, I can buy a BluRay Reader and external casing for about the same as the 360's HD-DVD external drive.
If MS can get BD-Live working they'd be stupid not to release a drive. At the moment, the only sensible purchase if you want to play high-def content off little, shiny, store-bought discs is a PS3. A Blu-ray drive for the Xbox would seriously slow the flow of PS3s into homes.