How to Turn a PlayStation 3 Into a Linux PC

MahariBalzitch writes "Popular Mechanics shows step by step guide on how to install Ubuntu Linux on a PlayStation 3 and still keep the PS3 gaming functionality. Now I just need to get my hands on a PS3." Not bad specs for the price, either, since Blu-Ray players still aren't cheap. And though the article calls the procedure "somewhat complicated," it's a lot simpler than was installing Linux from floppies not so many years ago.

Comments

On what planet is this 'news'?

[iapetus]

This is a documented feature of the system and has been since day one. I installed Linux shortly after the UK launch, and it really isn't anything to write home about - no support for hardware accelerated 3D, and a processor that really isn't designed for general-purpose computing. Novelty value for a couple of minutes, sure, then back to gaming on the PS3 and Linuxing on a real PC.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Secret Rabbit]

You're right that this isn't news, but it actually does have a processor that is designed for general-purpose computing; it's called the PPU (64-bit PowerPC processor blah blah blah). There are 7 OTHER SPU's (6 available in Linux) that have been optimized for vector processing. *Those* aren't general-purpose. But, Linux doesn't even need to see those to work. It can just run on the PPU.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[NFN_NLN]

But it should at least be able to play movies via VLC, right?

I just can't seem to lose my XBOX because XBMC is so damn useful. The PS3 native video player still won't support all the videos I use. If they ported XBMC to PS3 I'd cream my pants!

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[IsoRashi]

Also no access to built-in WiFi or Bluetooth hardware (VM doesn't export it)

Not true. Yellowdog has had wifi drivers in place for several months now, and I got wifi running on a Gentoo install on my PS3 as well. I haven't attempted it, but I've read that other people have accessed the bluetooth hardware as well and even gotten the PS3 controllers working in Linux. (Link, though I haven't tried it myself or even really read over it. ;))

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Ethan Allison]

So if you ported it yourself would that count as masturbation?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Nasser]

Yes, you can play movies in VLC in Linux on the PS3.... as long as they are NOT High Definition. without 3d hardware acceleration and low ram, running Linux on the PS3 is painfully slow and sluggish. I tried to play the open source, open movie Elephant's Dream in HD with VLC on the PS3 and it barely ran. it was so choppy it was unwatchable.

I love linux and use it as my Primary Operating system, but I feel sorry for people trying out linux for the first time on the PS3 because its just frustrating. Not only is it really slow but many applications are either are not supported with the PPC processor or you have to compile them yourself.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[lucas teh geek]

are you aware of the linux and osx ports of xbmc that are underway? while they're not quite to the standard of xbmc on the xbox just yet, they've come a long way in the year they've been working on it. I think I'll be swapping my xbox for a much quieter linux pc with specs actually capable of playing back HD videos, just as soon as they get the tv and movie library modes working the way they do on the xbox.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[philipgar]

It's actually a pretty smart way for Sony to prevent people from hacking the PS3. I'm sure part of this was at IBMs request, as IBM wants the CELL to be useful for other purposes than just gaming. By allowing Linux to easily run in a limited form, it means that people can play with the machine in Linux, but don't really have control over it. However, it also means fewer people are willing to spend the time required to hack the box and make a real linux media center machine out of it. I wouldn't doubt if this would already be available for the PS3, if not for the fact that it is so easy to get Linux installed on the device already.

As it stands, researchers already have access to play around with the Cell SPEs, and can do enough that there's no need to break it for their own needs. The general hobbyist who wants all the other stuff tend to not have the knowledge and resources to break in, and install linux, and thus no one has done it. Not a bad tradeoff, the research community gets to use the PS3 to play with Cell processors (helping IBMs goal of encouraging Cell development), and the hacking community has far fewer resources available to break the system, and less demand for it.

Phil

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[joocemann]

But it should at least be able to play movies via VLC, right?

I just can't seem to lose my XBOX because XBMC is so damn useful. The PS3 native video player still won't support all the videos I use. If they ported XBMC to PS3 I'd cream my pants! XBMC FTMFW x 1 million.... plus 3. XBMC PLAYS ANYTHING!!!! There are videos that even VLC won't play correctly.. Load em up on my xbox classic, open XBMC, .. FLAWLESS.

QFT QFT QFT

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Anonymous Coward]

The news part of the article isn't so much that it's possible to install linux on a ps3, but that the how-to appeared in a relatively mainstream magazine. The sort of thing you might come across while waiting in a doctor's office. Never mind that a quick web search reveals the instructions - this is introducing the concepts to a wider audience who would otherwise never have even thought of the possibility, and might get some of them thinking.

And that is the news part.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Basehart]

"So after a quick and thourough shower..."

thorough

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[arivanov]

Screw the hardware accelerated 3D. What is more interesting - does it have support for hardware accelerated 2D and more specifically XVideo (MPEG accel will be a nice option). If not, I would keep my PC, thank you.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I think you have a good point there. Giving people an (actually pretty severely) crippled version of what they want right out of the gate does seem to have rather diminished the vehemence of some of the hackers(Though, it should be noted, there are some fighting the good fight and attempting to find holes in the VM). Sony has the right to design their hardware however they want; but the whole thing kinda creeps me out. I hope it doesn't become a model of what interacting with hardware in the future will look like. A big layer-o'-omnipotent-and-uninspectable-vender-binary running between you and the hardware at all times... It isn't a pleasant thought.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 2 main PPEs are unimpressive - they're fast, but have blocks removed that make the PowerPC G5 cores slower than they should be Very funny to read. The PowerPC unit in the Cell has nothing to do with the G5 CPU. They are totally different uArches and made by separate teams, and the only thing they share is the ISA.

And there is only one PPE, although it is dual-threaded.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? You've been modded +4 Informative at this point, but a fair chunk of what you say is outright wrong. To whit:
1) Wifi access is not only available but works out-of-the-box with Yellow Dog Linux
2) Bluetooth access works fine and with only a tiny amount of work the Sixaxis controllers work as Bluetooth joysticks, and get picked up and used for stuff like Dosbox (old two-player dos games with Sixaxis joysticks sitting on the couch with your 47" LCD, anyone?)
3) Full access to the six special coprocessors, only access to the RSX chip is restricted

It runs fine at 720p and I have had Age of Empires II running just fine via the wireless connection to a Win98 harddrive image loaded up with qemu.

It's great.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[johannesg]

...and pegging the other PowerPC processor handling the framebuffer...

...The 2 main PPEs are unimpressive - they're fast, but have blocks removed that make the PowerPC G5 cores slower than they should be... Wait, does the PS3 have two main processing cores? Or are you counting the same core twice: once inside the VM, and once outside?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Doc Ruby]

There is an X/MPlayer video driver that plays 1080p HD video on the Cell's SPUs quite nicely, while the Cell's PPC core runs the Linux kernel without distraction.

To use PPC apps, you don't have to "compile them yourself". This is Ubuntu. All you do is apt-get install them from a source package.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Doc Ruby]

The Cell's SPUs are used as video accelerators by the X/MPlayer video driver, while Linux and other apps run on the Cell's 3.2GHz PPC core without slowing for the video.

The WiFi, Bluetooth and all the other snappy onboard HW is also now running under Ubunuto.

You are judging the platform on its initial Linux support from 2 years ago, when the machine was released (rushed to market). Since then, the platform has come of age. It still needs testing and packaging help to be "grandma ready", but that's why geeks like Slashdotters should get into it now: Linux is a community effort, and the community should try it now that it's at critical mass.

And, as a Cell dev kit, it's a $500 platform that can develop Linux apps that can run on $million supercomputers. And it plays games.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[nawcom]

Thank god I'm not the only one who finds spelling errors a complete turn off when fapping to dirty stories. That and un-needed product placement. I'm talking to you, Astroglide!

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Doc Ruby]

Yes, the X/MPlayer video driver works now, playing 1080p HD video right out of the builtin HDMI port.

You might find yourself leaving your PC on just to play a game once in a while.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[somersault]

Wha? Why, when you have PS3 Ubuntu with gcc + source? Unless you're desperate to run it standalone

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Idimmu Xul]

Wait, does the PS3 have two main processing cores? Or are you counting the same core twice: once inside the VM, and once outside?

According to this the Playstation 3 has 1 3.2Ghz power pc core that manages 8 of the vector processors. Apparently only 7 of the vector processors are used, the 8th is redundant in case one fails?

Free Playstation 3, XBox 360 and Nintendo Wii

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[nschubach]

I think it's like how Hyperthreading CPUs are counted as two processors if I'm not mistaken. There is one core, but it's seen by the OS as a dual core. Again, I could be totally wrong on this as I haven't had Linux installed on my PS3 in over a year.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[kestasjk]

I think he meant the processor isn't designed for general purpose computing like a 18-wheeler isn't designed for grocery shopping; you could do it but that's not what it's designed for so it's not the best idea

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Bootarn]

Here at Uppsala University, Sweden, we have a PS3 that is currently computing molecular dynamics. I'd say the PS3 is not perfect for desktop computing, since most desktop software is poorly written in respect to parallelisation. It is, however, quite good for scientific applications which are designed to run on a cluster. (GROMACS for instance)

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[robosmurf]

No, it really isn't.

The cell does have a PowerPC core in it, but it's not the same as the PowerPC that was used in Macs. It's considerably stripped down, and as such isn't that great for general-purpose computing.

I have been considering putting linux on my PS3, but only to tinker with the SPE cores. It's otherwise a really poor linux system.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[b4upoo]

Keep in mind that there are many, many PC users who don't give a hoot about gaming.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[SunTzuWarmaster]

So you are cool running on 1 processor, with little RAM and no GPU. You are correct, it does _run_, it just runs inferior to an iPhone.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Ed Avis]

The WiFi, Bluetooth and all the other snappy onboard HW is also now running under Ubunuto.

All of it? Including the 3d engine?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[8ball629]

Yeah, I seem to remember a story similar to this one being posted a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.... oh wait a minute.. yep it was posted here.

Anyway... anyone who can afford a PS3 can probably afford a cheap laptop running Linux which sounds like a more practical way of doing things - at least for me as I like to mult-task. It seems like the only reason to do this is just for the hell of it.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[RiotingPacifist]

1) XBMC does not play anything.
2) if VLC isn't playing something your not doing it right or try mplayer.
3) using that much caps for a completely pointless post makes you a retard.
4) being an 1337 XBOX gaming 14 y/o should take up enough of your time, if not spend more time using your 1337 halo skillz.
5) come back to slashdot when your balls drop.
6) if you choose to ignore 5 remember to remove your finger from the shift key sometimes.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Missing_dc]

That it Microsoft's wet dream right there. Just look at the Zune and it's security model on the rockbox forums.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[garlicbready]

A while back I setup an overlay for use on Gentoo / PS3 to try and get some of the more recent kernels / hardware working. I'm in the middle of looking to update it at the moment with 2.6.25, and to try and get some of the stuff I've posted in the forum updated onto a web-site. It looks as if the git repo tree now has tags for 2.6.25 which should make things a lot easier.

Bluetooth is possible, but just needs a couple of patches I think for HID support, this might now already be included in the later releases of bluez-utils (I need to check)

For the RSX / Graphics support, this appears to be a bit crappy at the moment, but it is fun to watch F-Zero / Mario Kart on a HD TV using while using the wireless controller, and there is the option to use a VGA cable for non HDMI monitors

To use the SPU's I think 64bit is required, with gcc 4.3

One of the main uses I could see would be the processor for rendering (e.g. yafray) if it had the support. Although at the moment there's not much that's written to take full advantage of the SPU's potential power, given that it operates under a different architecture than the ppc core (although it does heat the room quite nicely)

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[bestinshow]

It's an in-order design, but it does have two threads and a full VMX128 vector processing unit.

This means it's probably about as powerful as a 3.2GHz Intel Atom CPU (maybe a bit stronger because it doesn't have that low-power design requirement) - therefore about as powerful as a 2 GHz Intel Dothan (+/- 25% depending on task and effectiveness of the threading capability), with stronger SIMD and 6 extra very powerful but limited co-processors.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Anonymous Coward]

You only need to strip the container and put it in a container format the PS3 supports, you shouldn't need to transcode the h.264 at all.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[lord sibn]

The timing of this could not be more perfect. I work in a grocery store, which (unsurprisingly) is where I do all of my grocery shopping. I've been there for 5 years, but just yesterday, for the very first time ever, I got a ride to work (I normally walk).

Who gave me a ride? The guy driving the truck with all the stuff that I was going to unload and stock. He saw me on the sidewalk and pulled over.

Technically, I did not use an 18 wheeler for grocery shopping, but I *did* use one to go to the store once.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[antek9]

So you have been considering a Linux install, but didn't actually do it; nevertheless you are convinced the PS3 is 'a really poor linux system'. I will agree that given the limited RAM and such the PS3 will not make a good general purpose Linux desktop, but apart from that you wouldn't know how well it would cater to specific users of Linux systems.

It is surely not out of incompetence that many scientific organizations set up PS3 clusters to do some of their number crunching, and many natural science or CS students will love having some extra cores to peruse.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Smeagel]

Yes, because native ps3 sucks at playing divx/xvid. 100% of my h264 files don't play, and about 90% of my xvid files don't play on PS3's native player. The files almost have to be made with the ps3 in mind to play, it's really annoying.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Novelty value for a couple of minutes, sure, then back to gaming on Windows and Linuxing on a real PC.
Fixed that for you.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[i_like_yogurt]

You can grocery shop with an 18 wheeler just fine. You just have to put the tiny tires on.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Directrix1]

It has horrible format support. It supports MPEG standards and thats it. It doesn't support FLAC/OGG/Vorbis/Theora, so I setup a transcoding DLNA server to transcode to MP3, but the PS3 can't play anything off a DLNA server without knowing the file length ahead of time. In other words it can't even do streamed MP3. Lame.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[morgan_greywolf]

There is an X/MPlayer video driver [linux.yes.nu] that plays 1080p HD video on the Cell's SPUs quite nicely,

So long as by 'quite nicely' you mean 'video encoded in something other than H.264'. From your link:

H.264 / MKV does not work.

Additionally, this is just for MPlayer on the framebuffer right now. The author of the driver, Unsolo, is working on an Xv driver, but it's still in development.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[drinkypoo]

It's actually a pretty smart way for Sony to prevent people from hacking the PS3. I'm sure part of this was at IBMs request, as IBM wants the CELL to be useful for other purposes than just gaming.

I don't think so. I think it's all Sony. They just don't want you doing other things with their baby while you could be playing games, and buying games, and providing Sony with licensing revenue.

The PS3 is dramatically cheaper than any other Cell platform, so it's still interesting to "researchers", just not the ones at the best-funded and thus best-equipped universities. But out in the real world, without an ivory tower up one's ass, cheap supplies still spur private research.

The point is that the PS3 is an inherently limited platform and without graphics access it's just a strange-architecture PC with horribly slow graphics and 256MB RAM, which is just barely adequate for websurfing but which for example is really not enough to run OO.o smoothly, let alone Inkscape. Arguably the Xbox is more useful - neither the PS3 running Linux nor the Xbox will help anyone view HD video, but the XDK for the Xbox is running around and if you're willing to write or port Windows software you can put whatever you want on it... which is how we run XBMC.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[alexborges]

It does, and very well.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[keithjr]

So now you've got an ugly Linux PC that draws WAY too much electricity and features 7 useless cores.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[t0m2001]

Surely this is a silicon yield trick. By requiring only 7 SPE's it means that chips with broken SPEs can be used in PS3s while the rarer 8 SPE version can be used in IBM Blades?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Doc Ruby]

The nVidia GPU is still mostly locked out of Linux, except for audio and framebuffer functions. There are some projects that are hacking the GPU to get at its OpenGL implementation (2D/3D), but Sony seems to be actively patching their successful hacks. However, there is also now a ball rolling on porting video to the Cell's SPEs, which is already playing HD video. It's part of a general purpose SPE framework the community has put together. Other people are working on porting OpenGL directly to the SPEs.

So 3D currently runs slowly on the PPC core, but the projects for fast 3D are promising. And they need your help.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Ilgaz]

There is Yellow Dog Linux http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/ which was/is officially helped/supported by Sony and IBM, it even comes with exclusive Enlightenment version. I am very interested in it for 3 years as a PPC Only Mac user.

I think author thinks Linux is Ubuntu somehow. Especially considering Ubuntu DOESN'T support Power CPU (because Apple dropped, funny), one of worst distros to suggest to users is Ubuntu. Cell is a distant cousin to PPC (reminding Ubuntu geniuses too).

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Hatta]

People are going to hack it anyway to pirate games. Once that's done it should be reasonably easy to put a real linux system on it.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[poot_rootbeer]

the processor isn't designed for general purpose computing like a 18-wheeler isn't designed for grocery shopping; you could do it but that's not what it's designed for so it's not the best idea

Also, the company that sells the trucks doesn't want a flood of owner-operators to threaten their relationships with established freighting companies, so they rig the rig so that the trailer doors are welded shut, preventing you from putting anything inside, and the engine is restricted to first gear only.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[ravnous]

Not just that, but Sony gets a good deal out of this too, by selling more systems. Personally, I bought a PS3 mainly because I was taking a class on programming the Cell, and I am also working on my master's thesis on the Cell. IBM gains a Cell developer, and Sony sold a PS3 to someone who wouldn't have bought it just for the gaming. It's good enough for hobbyists to play with, learn how to program the cell, and see the results. At the same time, by crippling the graphics, Sony doesn't cannibalize their own profits on selling games. If everyone knows going in that Linux running on this thing is not going to give you the performance you'd get by buying a PC, that's fair. It's win-win-win. A corporation or university trying to do more advanced research is not going to buy a PS3, they're going to pony up and buy a real Cell-based machine from IBM (or Mercury). The only people that lose out are the hobbyists trying to learn how to program games for the PS3 who can't afford the dev kit. But don't all game platforms require you to pay for development tools?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[apoc06]

what if you plan to buy a ton of groceries? would you rather drive the 18 wheeler, or the corolla to the grocery store?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[petermgreen]

IIRC the PS3's main processor is slow but the cell also has some other hardware to play with that with correctly optimised code can give very good performance.

Another big reason to do this is because you want a powerpc system for some form of testing use. This may be slow compared to some of IBMs boxes or the later gen powerpc macs but it will almost certainly be faster than emulation or a gamecube.

I can think of at least two reasons for wanting a powerpc machine.
1: it is a big endian architecture that is reasonablly fast. So it is a decent choice for checking the endian portability of your code (assuming you wrote it on the little endian x86 or x64 architecture)
2: you want to see a package make it into debian testing but it is being held up by a build failure on powerpc that noone seems to be doing anything about.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Hal The Computer]

Just because it doesn't play your files doesn't mean it doesn't work. It plays something like 95% of the DivX/MPEG-4/Xvid files I throw at it.

The reason your h264 files won't play is because they use the wrong container format. You can easily convert them in less than 60 seconds. (Try mkv2vob)

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[jtwronski]

As I understand it, Sony buys 8 SPE chips, but the PS3 only uses 7 of them to reduce costs. If they get a chip with a broken SPE, it still gets used.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[TheLostSamurai]

This is news because Popular Mechanics, a very widely read and distributed magazine, has published a how to guide to get everyone's favorite OS (not mine) onto a piece of hardware that by all intents and purposes it was not specifically designed for.

If nothing else, this should excite all of the Linux fanatics that a major publication is advocating and possibly enlightening people to a new way to use their beloved OS.

BTW, I don't mean to sound like I'm anti-Linux, it's just not, in my humble opinion, mature enough for the general marketplace yet. And please don't flame me for that opinion.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[rockmuelle]

The PPU is a striped down PowerPC chip. It is a simple, in-order implementation of the PowerPC ISA, a little less capable than the G4s used in older Macs, but in the same ballpark. It is fine for running the OS and performing basic tasks, but is woefully underpowered compared to most recent general purpose processors.

The SPUs actually are general-purpose processors. They support scalar operations and have branch instructions and can run arbitrary applications. Of course, the real power in the SPUs comes from the fact that they are also vector processors that can work on up to four 32-bit operands in one instruction.

There are some other features that make the SPUs even more interesting (specifically the user-programmable local store and fast interconnect between cores). But for the sake of general purpose computing, every core on the chip is a general purpose processor.

-Chris

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[billdar]

It has been new's a couple times over the past 2 years:

http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/04/1916242

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/11/17/1327239.shtml

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/07/211214

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[gravis777]

When I bought the PS3, only a special version of YellowDog worked, and it was not well documented. If they have documentaiton, and how to do it with Ubuntu, I might be willing to try it again. YellowDog hung up in install for me, and I could not get the thing to boot back into the PS3 firmware and had to return the thing. Bestbuy had to take it back, as it was within the first 7 days, but they were not too happy, but I did point out to them that it is a documented feature of the console.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Tarlus]

Ah Slashdot, always so warm and welcoming.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[nuzak]

But the last time I tried I couldn't get h264/ac3 in mkv transcoded to mpeg2/ac3 at full resolution. Down scaling to PAL and 2 audiochannels worked, the problem was ffmpeg audio sync IIRC.

Did you try emitting a tachyon beam from the deflector dish? That always works.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[nuzak]

> At the same time, by crippling the graphics, Sony doesn't cannibalize their own profits on selling games.

It's not that Sony thinks there's any likelihood of AAA titles being developed homebrew on Linux that might significantly cut into their developers profits and by extension, their royalty stream, it's that they figure that direct access to all the hardware would enable piracy of existing games. The games don't run on an OS per se, so they could technically be bootable from Linux (basically hotswapping the kernel out) but with all that pesky copy protection stripped out.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[nuzak]

> Apparently only 7 of the vector processors are used, the 8th is redundant in case one fails?

No, one is disabled to increase yields. They still disable one if all of them test ok in order to guarantee uniform characteristics. This leaves seven. One SPU is also reserved for the hypervisor, leaving six to play with.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Smeagel]

Did you ever think I don't want to go through and convert about 800 movie/tv-show files I have been using with linux media computers for about 6 years? And they're not just "my files", I've been accumulating them from both encoding myself with mencoder and off various torrents for years.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[ravyne]

The PS3's implimentation of the PPE core doesn't have VMX128 like the PPE cores in the 360 do -- In fact, its the only real difference between the two cores themselves.

The best comparison I've heard as to the power of the PS3 PPE core alone is that a single PPE core (here referring to those in the 360) running two threads is roughly twice as fast as the original Xbox's Pentium 3 processor (with 256k L2) which ran at 733Mhz. So a rough comparison to Intel-land gives us something similar to a 1.5 Ghz P3 -- Not bad, but its no 2Ghz Dothan, not by a shot...

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[joocemann]

1) XBMC does not play anything.
2) if VLC isn't playing something your not doing it right or try mplayer.
3) using that much caps for a completely pointless post makes you a retard.
4) being an 1337 XBOX gaming 14 y/o should take up enough of your time, if not spend more time using your 1337 halo skillz.
5) come back to slashdot when your balls drop.
6) if you choose to ignore 5 remember to remove your finger from the shift key sometimes. 1) maybe YOUR xbmc is broken, mine plays loads of videos.
2) There are videos that do not play well in VLC but play perfect on xbmc.
3) Caps are for capital letters, your point?
4) I'm a 26 year old veteran, now a pre-med student who does a lot of gaming. Sorry to mislead you, but I have a way of having fun in life; we don't always need to be pretentious.
5) My balls dropped long long ago.
6) I remove my fingers from the shift key when I feel it is necessary.

Now, with all due respect, shut the fuck up. You don't know anything about me, but you've surely got enough assumptions to make a fool of yourself. See, I made a fool of myself (in your eyes) for fun because it is a playful way that some people talk on the internet; yet you made a fool of yourself by acting like a pretentious prick. The difference is that I know when I am acting common, while you sit on a high horse sounding like an idiot.

Halo sucks. mouse+kb ftmfw.

Did my refrain from caps please you, sir?

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[kesuki]

The game OS only has limited video/audio codec/container support. The way you might be able to "fix" this is by using mediatomb and its transcoding support:
http://mediatomb.cc/pages/transcoding

But the last time I tried I couldn't get h264/ac3 in mkv transcoded to mpeg2/ac3 at full resolution. Down scaling to PAL and 2 audiochannels worked, the problem was ffmpeg audio sync IIRC. you might want to follow a better guide http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/PS3_H.264_Conversion_Guide_page9.html

ahh i linked to page 9, but there are 3 methods, that produce 3 different containers the ps3 will support.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[JLF65]

The cell does have a PowerPC core in it, but it's not the same as the PowerPC that was used in Macs. It's considerably stripped down, and as such isn't that great for general-purpose computing.

All processors used to be this way until the P2. The benchmarks on the Cell in the PS3 put it's performance on general purpose tasks as about equal to the 1.8 GHz G5 iMacs. That's PLENTY powerful enough for a general purpose CPU. Is it a 3 GHz Core2Duo? No, but that doesn't mean it sucks.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[JLF65]

Linux looks better than Windows XP, and you have FULL use of the SPUs in linux. It's VERY useful to many people. You can browse the net with your favorite browser (Firefox) and do email with better security than Windows. You can play all your multimedia files. There a variety of games that run fine without hardware accelerated 3D (not all games are HalfLife 2 or Halo). To dismiss linux on the PS3 out of hand just shows your lack of imagination.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[default luser]

The SIMD performance of the PPC processor onboard Cell is very similar to that of Dothan and and Atom.

Atom: one 128-bit SIMD unit.
Cell PPC: one 128-bit SIMD unit.
Dothan: two 64-bit SIMD units, which can process one 128-bit SIMD instructions in two clocks.

Similar, all-around.

What Dothan will destroy both chips at is integer operations, because it can perform twice as many in a single clock cycle. Also, the fast, large cache of Dothan gives it an advantage in single-threaded code, where cache misses become more of a problem for the other two chips.

Overall, your estimate is good. I thought I's just add some detail.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[default luser]

I was under the impression that the upper limit of video performance in PS3 linux is not user-accessable, because it depends on the hypervisor (which runs on one SPE):

Be aware that the memory that holds the physical GPU frame buffer is not allocated by the Kernel, just used. So on the first call to this, some or all of the memory you request (depending on now much you request) may be actually used as the frame buffer. You will know this, because your writes to memory will mysteriously disappear up to 20ms after you perform them. Note that direct access to video ram is very slow (~10MB/s).

If this link is correct, the maximum throughput into the framebuffer is a paltry 10MB/s, which isn't good enough for video at anywhere near HD resolutions. Or is this link incorrect?

So, what use is having a fast video decoder on the SPEs? You can't really make use of it for playback, because the hypervisor and framebuffer are holding you back. Until you find a PERMANANT hack for the RSX, you're SOL.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Red Flayer]

You might want to reconsider how you refer to linux -- perhaps as your Main Operating System.

I love linux and use it as my Primary Operating system

Referring to linux as your POS is probably a bad idea.

Referring to Vista as your POS, well, that's understood.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Lordnerdzrool]

I don't need to install Ubuntu on my turkey baster to know it's 'a really poor linux system'.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[EdelFactor19]

not only that; but there is a guide to do this on IBM's website that doesn't require you to swap out the hard drive. Why you'd want to do it for any reason other than to develop on / for the platform / or to run something like mythTV is beyond me. the ps3 doesn't exactly pack in much ram for you and its not going to perform well for "desktop" applications because surprise surprise its not designed to.

IANAL but I am also not an idiot and I'm pretty sure they can't legally be prevent you from putting windows on it if you bought a copy of windows expressly for this purpose. I think you'd be prevented by a. it probably wouldnt work but then again i've never tried installing windows on power before... and b. not wanting to do so.

must be a really slow day for news; esp since slashdot publicized the publication of the sdk and challenge issued and the items some MIT students produced working on it a ways back.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[whimmel]

either way it's going to be a pain carrying all that crap upstairs into my apartment

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[faragon]

From my own benchmarks, the dual threaded PPC64 is very similar to my desktop AMD64 @1.8GHz (one core). In addition, the 6 SPE units of the Cell are beasts, not just doing SIMD, but also because of massive bandwidth between their 256KB per SPE local memories (25GB/s of simultaneous data transfer between *many* SPEs at same time (!)).

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Secret Rabbit]

Yes, it is. Read the docs. They're available from IBM.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[Doc Ruby]

That note is describing constraints on the frame buffer as RAM hack that they've been working on, to use the framebuffer VRAM as extra app/OS RAM with some buffer overflow tricks through a cracked API. The constraints don't constrain the spu-medialib video driver, AFAIK.

I can tell you that 1080p/30fps (or maybe faster) looks sweet over HDMI from my PS3 to my 50" DLP.

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[rootooftheworld]

you didnt TRY? brother slashdoters, kill the heretic!

Re:On what planet is this 'news'?

[bestinshow]

Ah yes, thanks for the correction. Cell's PPE only includes the 32-register Altivec.

But, but...

[Facetious]

How do you get rootkits for it if it runs Ubuntu?

Re:But, but...

[wizardforce]

compile them yourself I guess...

Re:But, but...

[rodgerd]

Install Ubuntu's openssl build.

LOLWUT

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Select "Install Other OS" from the settings menu.

Take pictures.

Jesus Christ. What a dumb fucking article. It's sad to see that this is what has become of PopMech.

Re:LOLWUT

[brindleboar]

"It's sad to see that this is what has become of PopMech." Oh come on now. What about that "How to Convert your Vacuum Cleaner into a Fully Automatic Rifle" article? That wasn't so bad was it?

Re:LOLWUT

[Ethan Allison]

Hey, at least that one takes a little figuring out.

Re:LOLWUT

[DuckDodgers]

A few years ago if Popular Mechanics mentioned Linux at all, it was an off hand derisive comment about geeks in basements.

Linux for the home user has definitely come a long way in recent years.

Icons?

[Anonymous Coward]

This submission is obviously just an excuse to use a large amount of icons. Which ironically is longer than the TFS.

"Somewhat Complicated"

[cp.tar]

And though the article calls the procedure "somewhat complicated," it's a lot simpler than was installing Linux from floppies not so many years ago.

In some respects, it seems exactly like installing Linux from floppies.
In the olden days, you swapped the boot and root floppies; here you swap the hard drives, which indeed is somewhat complicated, as in "I wouldn't trust my grandmother to do it right" (not grandfather, though!).

As for the rest... OK, I am one of the few people in the universe who actually read documentation, but nevertheless... a page-long manual, illustrations included, makes the procedure somewhat complicated?
Indeed, Linux has come a long way if not being able to simply pop a CD and install on anything, incuding a toaster, makes the install procedure "somewhat complicated".

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[IsoRashi]

In some respects, it seems exactly like installing Linux from floppies.
In the olden days, you swapped the boot and root floppies; here you swap the hard drives, which indeed is somewhat complicated, as in "I wouldn't trust my grandmother to do it right" (not grandfather, though!).

It's not required that you swap harddrives. If you choose to use the existing harddrive in your PS3, you just have to format it to repartition.

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[pablomme]

In the olden days, you swapped the boot and root floppies; here you swap the hard drives That's a recommended upgrade, and is completely independent of the install process. Actually I don't see their point: they upgrade their 40/60/80GB disk to a 250GB disk, and then allocate 10GB for Linux.

The whole guide boils down to: boot from CD, install 'kboot', boot into PS3, tell the PS3 to allow other OSs, boot from CD, install. Profit.

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[cp.tar]

Whoosh.

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[flayzernax]

Your missing the most important step!

???

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[xtracto]

Uuu... I also didn't understand the joke :( could you clarify please?

I do think that is somewhat complicated. Mainly one of the last steps which is how to return to the standard OS by writing some command.

After reading the slashdot headline and summary, I thought I would send the story to my brother who has a PS3 and once told me he wanted to install Linux on it. If there was a boot manager it would be OK, however, having to have the keyboard connected and type those commands each time you want to boot on one OS or another, I would advice my brother to leave its PS3 as it is and just buy an eee

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[Anonymous Coward]

And though the article calls the procedure "somewhat complicated," it's a lot simpler than was installing Linux from floppies not so many years ago.

In some respects, it seems exactly like installing Linux from floppies.

In the olden days, you swapped the boot and root floppies; here you swap the hard drives, which indeed is somewhat complicated, as in "I wouldn't trust my grandmother to do it right" (not grandfather, though!).

As for the rest... OK, I am one of the few people in the universe who actually read documentation, but nevertheless... a page-long manual, illustrations included, makes the procedure somewhat complicated?

Indeed, Linux has come a long way if not being able to simply pop a CD and install on anything, incuding a toaster, makes the install procedure "somewhat complicated".

You do not need to swap hard drives. All you need to do is format/partition it using the game-os menu.
Just pop in the linux cd, press install other os and follow the instructions on the screen.
You will however lose all your game saves, so be sure to take a backup.
I myself installed linux before i started playing games, so did not have to worry about backing up my hard drive.

I dont recommend linux on ps3 though, as it runs bog slow due to 256MB ram, no gpu access and linux not being optimized for the hardware.

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[rob1980]

I think the 10GB is just for the OS, then the remaining 200-something gb of the drive is for saves, game installs, media, etc. May check into this myself next weekend after I pick up the MGS4 bundle.

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[drinkypoo]

Indeed, Linux has come a long way if not being able to simply pop a CD and install on anything, incuding a toaster, makes the install procedure "somewhat complicated".

Linux is a kernel. Linux on the PS3 has a long way to go if you have to swap disks.

Ubuntu Linux, a distribution of linux, is mostly lick-and-stick.

The problem is not with Linux, the problem is with You. Your problem lies in terminology and understanding the nature of Linux.

Does Linux have the Zen nature?

Re:"Somewhat Complicated"

[petermgreen]

btw do you know if there is any way arround the very limited range of partitioning options that the PS3 offers? Afaict you have to give 10 gig to one side and all the rest to the other which seems very unbalanced if you have a big drive.

Ubuntu Installation Instructions

[Anonymous Coward]

http://psubuntu.com/wiki/InstallationInstructions/

This is a good Ubuntu installation wiki for PS3.

Finally!!!

[naz404]

Now we can finally see the day when they'll have good games running in the Playstation 3!!!

...by playing Playstation 1 games in it via a Linux Playstation Emulator!

http://www.epsxe.com/
http://www.pcsx.net/

:D

*nerdgasm*

...
...

And then to see just how macho the Cell processor is, we can run Virtual Box in the PS3 then run Win Vista within Virtual Box within Ubuntu within the PS3!

let's see how macho you are now, Cell processor!

Re:Finally!!!

[Xtravar]

The PS3 already plays PS1 games... natively, with no Linux.

The problem is PS2 emulation! Completely possible in software, but Sony's not going to do it for their 40GB models, and they're not going to give us proper 3D chip access in Linux to run the unofficial emulators there.

Re:Finally!!!

[Grimbleton]

My 60GB played PS2 games just fine..

Re:Finally!!!

[Xtravar]

Yes, all the models except the 40GB have at least one PS2 chip on them. The 40GB is sold with no backward compatibility promises, but it's difficult to procure any other model nowadays. Technologically, there's no reason why the emulation can't all be done in software, but Sony's not very interested in doing it or helping the open source world do it.

Re:Finally!!!

[cbrocious]

Actually, there is. Emulating the individual components is fairly easy (most of it is well documented) but managing the synchronization between all the chips is incredibly difficult. The fact that the emulators out there work as well as they do is quite amazing.

Re:Finally!!!

[Kalriath]

Rumour is v1.5 firmware includes that software emulation that Sony apparently "isn't interested in doing".

Re:Finally!!!

[Xtravar]

Zomg, you do know that the PS3 firmware is past 2.2, right?

Re:Finally!!!

[Kalriath]

Ooops, that'd be v2.5 - so I got the leading number wrong (yes, I realise the leading number was the most important one). That'd be in about October, again as rumour has it. And I checked with my own PS3, it's firmware 2.35 so 2.5 is possible.

PS1 games

[Enderandrew]

Sony sell's PS1 games from their store. You can download them, play them on your PS3, and even stream them wirelessly to your PSP.

PSUbuntu

[pegasustonans]

The PSUbuntu website is a good resource for anyone who wants to run Ubuntu on their PS3:

http://psubuntu.com/

Not Impressed

[INeededALogin]

Redhat on PS3 at release

Exactly what was accomplished here except writing an article about an obvious installation. Sony basically added support to the Linux kernel(their was a /. article on that too).

It ain't News for Nerds unless code or a soldering gun was required.

Re:Not Impressed

[FurtiveGlancer]

Dang! Now we'll have to close the YRO section.

Re:Not Impressed

[rootooftheworld]

wait a minute! why linux in the first place? dragonflyBSD has awsome SMP suport, though i dont know if its ported. linux is nice, but its not the only FOSS kernel

Not bad specs, with one exception:

[nobodyman]

You only have 256mb RAM. The other 256 is video RAM, and Sony prohibits direct access to it. Unfortunately that means no hardware accelerated graphics either. Kindof a shame, but I imagine it's still neat to play around with, and I doubt you'll find a cheaper Cell dev platform.

On the 360 side, hobbyist developers have a different set of trade-offs. You can write games C# using XNA Game Studio, 512mb shared memory, and even get hardware acceleration (some of the demos are quite impressive). On the flipside, there's a $100/year membership and fat chance of ever running linux (in any official capacity at least)

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[Noodlenoggin]

I was under the impression that pretty much none of the 'homebrew' stuff made with XNA for the 360 was going to make it beyond home users hacking away on their own devices. I don't own a 360 so I really have no idea what it's like for just browsing the web and downloading/installing new software.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[frieko]

Actually with a bit of coaxing you can get Linux onto the 360.

It's kind of ironic (suspicious?) that you can pirate 360 games way easier then you can run homebrew/Linux on it.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[Doc Ruby]

The X/MPlayer video driver plays 1080p video through the HDMI port, accelerated on the Cell's SPUs.

The limited RAM is still a problem. But not for playing video, which streams from either disk or the Gb-e LAN. And there are other hacks, including some HW hacks, if you need more RAM for more serious computing that isn't based on the stream model.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[BitwizeGHC]

That's because open source is a cancer, while unofficially-tolerated piracy helps drum up support and good PR for a software title.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[Capitalist Piggy]

*Sigh*
Go read this article on GamaSutra real quick.

Slashdot isn't the place for any positive information about the 360. It's rather silly, because for any up-and-coming game coder, it's probably not a wise one to ignore or spit at.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[nuzak]

You still have to be an XNA creators club member to download others' XNA Game Studio Express games. MS has yet to promote even a single XNA game to XBLA -- the single title they announced last year that was making the jump (Schizoid) still hasn't landed. And that one is multiplayer-only.

Re:Not bad specs, with one exception:

[Capitalist Piggy]

From all I have seen, they are still working on a plan to get these out. Regardless, it's about a million times better than to have nothing in the works and a minimum price of $10k to develop on the platform, as it appears to be with the ps3. The $100 a year is not very much, considering the tools and content you get with it.

I also see nothing wrong with a game being multi-player only, as the majority of people who play XBLA releases are only in it for retro classics and social multi-player games.

obligatory

[naz404]

>Sony sell's PS1 games from their store.
>You can download them, play them on your PS3...

What??? Do it the easy way by buying games from the PS1 download store to run them in your PS3 as opposed to running your old PS1 CDs through an emulator in Linux in the PS3? (and thus not buy something you already own twice)

***
*cue nerd police*
***

"We're very sorry to inform you sir, but your geek license just got revoked!"

Re:obligatory

[Enderandrew]

I doubt the PS1 emulator in Linux would work very well on the PS3, because Linux runs through a hypervisor on the PS3. You don't have access to any 3D acceleration through the GPU, where all the power is.

No 3D acceleration would likely kill PS1 emulation via Linux.

And the PS store does give the added benefit of allowing you to take the games with you on your PSP as well.

I bought Castlevania Symphony of Darkness through the store, because I never actually had the game on the PS1.

Re:obligatory

[mad_minstrel]

Actually, it would probably work fine with software rendering. It worked great on my ancient p4 2.8 laptop. The cell's PPE should be able to keep up.

Re:obligatory

[TrancePhreak]

Or you could just, u know, play the PS1 games on your PS3. Pretty sure all models support PS1 through software. Whereas you may or may not get PS2 support.

Re:obligatory

[Doc Ruby]

There is an X/MPlayer video driver that runs 2D on the Cell's SPUs, while the Cell's PPC core runs Linux and regular Linux apps. It needs some more work, and 3D functions are yet to be added to the Cell SW. But although the PS3 GPU is indeed a 1.8TFLOPS nVidia chip, I'd say that the 204GFLOPS Cell is "where all the power is" now, and several times as fast as your PC.

BTW, the PS3 runs PS1 games under the Sony GameOS in SW emulation at full (or greater) speed, without using Linux.

Re:Blu-Ray Players not Cheap? WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, are you on crack?

1. There is only one sku for the ps3 currently, and it's only 399. There will be a new one soon for 100, but it's basically the same.

2. While you can use a bluray drive for reading bluray discs, you can't actually play movies with it, as per a couple of months ago, or at the very least, not without serious time investment converting the video.

3. Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Pixel Junkies Monsters, Warhawk, Folklore, Gran Turismo, Resistance: Fall of Man. All of these are exclusive to the PS3, all of these are highly rated, and there's most likely at least one game in this set that would appeal to you as a gamer, as this largely covers the spectrum of genres available today. AND I hadn't even mentioned Metal Gear, which comes out this month (IIRC).

It's clear that either you're (a. retarded or (b. simply bashing the PS3 because it's cool to do so. But guess what? It's not really cool to do so anymore because it's starting to become a solid system.

PS3 Linux Media Center

[manekineko2]

One of my dreams as soon as the PS3 was released was to install Linux on it and turn it into a media center hub without any of the DRM restrictions of pre-packaged solutions.

I currently use an Xbox 1 with Xbox Media Center installed, but it's starting to get long in the tooth since it doesn't support HD resolutions.

Although the GPU is restricted from access when in Linux , the CPU on the PS3 is plenty strong still as I understand it. Is there a way to install Linux easily on a PS3 so that it can be an easy to use media center comparable to XBMC?

I've seen reference to the fact that such a thing is possible, but is there an ISO I can just burn or install and have it work? If not, why not?

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[TooMuchToDo]

If not, why not?

Because Sony sucks. They use a hypervisor to manage Linux running on the PS3 to lock it out from using any of the useful hardware on the box.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a PS3 with a similar intention about 6 months ago. I installed Yellow Dog, which works great out of the box, but the media support is bad because of the lack of hardware acceleration and the Cell processor isn't too hot as a general purpose CPU.

I think the answer is that there isn't really a lot of point in trying to use Linux for this purpose anyway. Sony's media support in the PS3's native operating system is actually quite good. Just run a mediatomb server to provide the data, or otherwise plug in a hard drive directly to the PS3 and it works great.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternatively you can just use a program like TVersity to transcode and use the PS3's media device connectivity (or media player 11, if all your files are in the right format)

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[kieran]

Oh but Tversity sucks hard when you have a large media library. Damn thing crashed on me so often I went back to using my Xbox1/XBMC setup which I'd really like to reture to make space for a Wii.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[3.14159265]

Ditto. However, its operating silence, or lack thereof, might be an issue.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[faclonX]

Why bother, the PS3 has DLNA support. Install TVersity (this is the windows option, I'm sure theres something for the mac and linux as well) on your desktop, set it up to transcode and upscale, plug a network cable into your PS3, and go... I use it almost every day for music, and movies.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[Reapman]

I'm (honestly) curious actually what advantage there would be in using Linux as a media centre on the PS3 vs the PS3's built-in feature set. I used to run XBMC on an XBox, but now that they added Divx support to the PS3 I haven't had to turn it on since. I use Mediatomb for my Linux server, and don't have to do any transcoding. I imagine if you have MKV files it would be of benefit to run Linux... and the interface of XBMC is way nicer, but the PS3 definitly falls under "good enough" I find, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I'd be tempted to put Linux on if there's some stuff I'm missing.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[manekineko2]

Well, the whole reason I'm wanting to upgrade from XBMC is to play 1080p MKVs.

Transcoding probably isn't even an option for me for this is it? I imagine you'd need a pretty powerful PC to transcode something like that.

Re:PS3 Linux Media Center

[Reapman]

Yeah.. I've done transcoding in the past and frankly it sucks bad. Even a smaller, 600 meg file your looking at a 2 minute startup time, and you can't pause / play it mid stream, at least not the setup I was using. Looked bad too.

I never understood why nobody supports MKV.. I'd use it more if I had hardware that supported it. Maybe if someone ports XBMC to the PS3 I'll relook into it.

Penny Arcade

[Radres]

Great, maybe now I can play that new Penny Arcade game, since they didn't want to release it for PS3.

Re:Penny Arcade

[Noodlenoggin]

Oh yes I saw you before, mouth agape

Re:Penny Arcade

[fyrewulff]

It's because the Torque engine is unavailable for PS3 yet

Re:Penny Arcade

[TrancePhreak]

Not without hardware acceleration you wont.

Re:Penny Arcade

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Are you just going to spam us with this in every single thread? Even when it's not relevant? (ie. it was 3D hardware support they were talking about here for fuck's sake)

www.osxbmc.com

[goldragon]

http://www.osxbmc.com/

OSXBMC is a port of the fabulous Xbox Media Center for Mac OSX. I'm running it on a 1.8Ghz Mac Mini with 512meg of ram and I have no problem playing any HD videos I've got. I highly recommend it!

Re:www.osxbmc.com

[spandex_panda]

does it play and record digital tv from a usb dvb card?

Re:www.osxbmc.com

[CrapulaX]

Not yet but there is an ucpcoming (around 75 $) called PlayTV will digital tv tuner in order to be able to watch TV, timeshift, record.

Capt. Obvious day

[atari2600]

Must be another CO day here. While we are at it, let me add my totally obvious comments. Instead of spending atleast 400-450$ on a PS3, you can build yourself a proper PC with components from newegg and download Ubuntu and install it for a superior Linux experience. What's that you say? You want a Blu-ray drive? Here's one that's not so expensive.

You don't want a BDROM and you can't be bothered to put together a PC? Say hello to Zonbu and their line of line of cheaper machines.

Zonbu not upto your taste? Perhaps Madtux might help.

That was from 3mins of Googling - you get my drift. Linux on PS3 is almost as old as Linux on PS2 (one with HDD). Anyone remember Linux on xbox?

I am not sure who or what I should be insulting here - the selection of this story or Popular Mechanics. Oh and 129$ from newegg for a BDROM drive is cheap enough for me (HTPC and all) - Give it a couple of months and you will get sub 100$ BDROM drives and as any serious gamer knows, it's not the console price that will get ya - it's the games as they come out but I digress. Back to watching Monty Python on Hulu...

Re:Capt. Obvious day

[xtracto]

Instead of spending atleast 400-450$ on a PS3,

You do not get the point... it is not that you are going to buy a ps3 to install linux. It is that you have a ps3 and want to install Linux just for the sake of it.

Re:Capt. Obvious day

[RiotingPacifist]

what about running a server on it, its great value for money, probably better than a homebuild, defiantly better than most stuff you can buy. just like the xbox was a good file server back when xbox-linux was about, because they make thier money on games they you give fairly good hardware for the price.

Re:Capt. Obvious day

[Capitalist Piggy]

I think he is just refuting the point brought up in the headline:

"Not bad specs for the price, either, since Blu-Ray players still aren't cheap. And though the article calls the procedure "somewhat complicated," it's a lot simpler than was installing Linux from floppies not so many years ago."

The headline implies you get decent specs for the price, which seems to be comparing it to PC hardware.

This, to me, is the same kind of fluff the Dreamcast got a few years back when people began running Linux on it. You know, when everyone was jabbering about it being a "super computer", seeming to ignore how you can't upgrade the memory, processor, or any other components which will cause it to be obsolete by the time the price drops a reasonable amount.

Re:Capt. Obvious day

[nobodyman]

I am not sure who or what I should be insulting here

Perhaps you shouldn't be insulting anybody? It's a generally interesting article, and a lot of slashdot users like Linux and Playstation so it seems relevant to me. If it doesn't appeal to *you* personally and seems like a waste of your time, why not just move on rather than wasting yet more time to insult people?

Furthermore, I really think people are missing the point when they say "why install linux on a [insert atypical hardware here] when you can install it on a cheap PC for less?". The whole point in doing something like this is necessarily because it's practical but because it is *fun*.

Re:Capt. Obvious day

[tepples]

That was from 3mins of Googling Care to provide some of the query strings you used?

Some problems with the article and Ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

If you follow the instructions at PM's website you should be aware that the command to return to the PS3's native OS is not as the article has it. The correct command is "boot-game-os". Several folks made comments to that effect but for some reason PM is acting as if the error is cast in concrete and can't be corrected.

Secondly, the wireless adapter isn't supported yet so if you want Internet, you'll need to run a cable to your PS3 or plan on doing some compiling to get wireless support. For those of you who are old hands at Linux, this may be no big deal but for someone like myself who hasn't used Linux, it's an opportunity to learn a lot of new things. It reminds me a lot of decades ago when I first read K&R's C.

one of the most energy inefficient "PC's"...

[marcushnk]

The PS3 is an absolute power hog...
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=106346&catId=100245&tid=100008&p=5&title=Computers'+energy+costs

Re:one of the most energy inefficient "PC's"...

[Zelos]

Most figures I've seen put the current PS3 revision at around 150W in-game, that's comparable to a desktop PC.

Re:one of the most energy inefficient "PC's"...

[Smegoid]

The PS3 is the biggest energy suck of the lot! I'm amazed, I thought for sure the 360 would outrank it with its nuclear power pack. I just bought a PS3 a few weeks ago, and noticed my last power bill went up by 10$ in a time of the year when it usually goes down. So much for leaving it on to play mp3s all the time. Anyone else notice that the CRT used much less power than the plasma.

Old news

[IronBits]

http://www.free-dc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12726 Lots of information to be had for those that are into Distributed Computing with PS3s. :)

PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

There is an entire community dedicated to running Ubuntu on a PS3, at PSUbuntu.com. And you don't have to upgrade your HD from whatever size your PS3 came with, although of course it's easy and you can do it. The PS3 HW works right out of the box.

Right now is a good time to join the PSUbuntu.com community, because a new wave of developers on the ubuntu-cell maillist have just joined, and are uniting with the users at PSUbuntu.com to test and smooth out the PS3/Ubuntu distro.

And there is also a fairly new X/MPlayer driver that will render full 1080p HD video on the PS3's Cell CPU, that also needs just a little testing and integration.

What I really want to see is a PS3 running Ubuntu using the PlayTV PVR device that Sony is releasing this year. With Ubuntu running it, the PS3 could be quite the killer platform for all home entertainment.

And I hear it plays games, too.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[DJProtoss]

The SPU display code is not nearly as advanced as you imply (unfortunately) - whilst it can display at that rate / resolution, it is severaly limited in what data it can currently render. See http://wiki.ps2dev.org/ps3:spu-medialib here for the current status

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Capitalist Piggy]

The PS3 HW works right out of the box.

Oh thank god! I hate how when I buy a PC, the hardware never seems to work when I take it out of the box. Especially the complicated task of getting things like this to work! :V

From your link:

"However, I noticed that video performance was awful, so I investigated what could be done to improve this." -- There's no updates on his investigation on the website.

"When it comes to audio, Linux on PS3 falls short again as a media center, because of the 2 channel stereo support currently in the audio driver. But I've been told that work is being done in this area as well. "... -- Yikes!

This stuff sounds like the same things I heard about Linux on the Dreamcast, which eventually petered-out when that generation of console ended and the next one began, leaving a lot of abandoned, half-finished work in it's wake.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

Does you Dell's HW play PS3 games right out of the box, as well as running Linux? Because that's what we're talking about (in reverse).

If you look at the dates of the old posts, you'll see that they're old. Look at some of the other posts in this thread to see that those problems are gone. There are still some problems left, but this is FOSS, so it's more productive to help than just to complain.

Dreamcast Linux wasn't officially supported by Sega, but Linux on PS3 is supported (and advertised) by Sony. In fact Linux seems to be an embedded OS that Sony's current generation is using to make all this PS3 and related gear into their home entertainment network. It's not going away, it's in its 2nd or 3rd generation on PS3, and PS3 itself is just at the start of at least a decade of being Sony's "current generation".

What matters most is whether the Linux community stays working on improving the Linux implementation. Which is how Linux works on any platform. Lend a hand!

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

Actually, that status is quite old. The drivers aren't finished, but they're more finished than that site (and others linked from it) suggest. The devs have moved to mainly IRC and a new CVS, because there is only a small group (hard) at work on the project. If there are more devs helping (c'mon, Slashdot!) then they'll publish a new formal release and the "bugs" (like other formats) will die off like any other FOSS project.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

It's open source, and an ongoing project. Don't just complain - test and patch it!

I don't know about your Xbox1/XMBC, but my PS3/Ubuntu plays 1080p MPG4s quite beautifully on my 50" HDMI DLP.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[DJProtoss]

Oh? where on irc/cvs?

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Capitalist Piggy]

What matters most is whether the Linux community stays working on improving the Linux implementation. Which is how Linux works on any platform. Lend a hand!

I'd rather see these man-hours go into Wine, personally. I really don't see a big future in the PS3 implementation, as I said in regards to the Dreamcast, a new whiz-bang bit of hardware comes out, people port Linux to it, then there's a hundred thousand cheer-leaders who just know it'll be around forever. This thought stems from the number of people who actually will run it on the PS3, what happens when the memory of the PS3 becomes obsolete, etc. I am not knocking cell development, just questioning the excitement over a console-specific distribution when there's big, gaping holes in other areas of the OS in question.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

But you're saying that because you refuse to listen to what's wrong with your take on things. The PS3 isn't just "new", it's been out for 2 years, and Linux is proven an important official strategy by Sony. That's totally different from the Dreamcast, or PS2/Linux scenarios, as has been amply discussed in these threads.

And because you somehow think that the people who would develop PS3 Linux are at all the same people who then wouldn't develop Wine. They're not. Wine development isn't going to suffer any brain drain.

I don't know what you mean by "the memory of the PS3 becomes obsolete", but I do expect that soon enough (probably next year) Sony will release a PS3 with either more RAM, or expandable RAM. Because Sony is just getting around to supporting Sony Home and other Internet content/community apps, which will require more RAM.

But until then, the current PS3 HW is entirely suitable for an extraordinary media terminal running Linux. 256MB RAM is plenty for running multimedia apps that stream all their data from the network, which is clearly Sony's strategy for home entertainment (whether Linux or not), like DLNA.

I think that as long as you're questioning the platform, you should listen to the answers.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Capitalist Piggy]

I wouldn't bank on a memory expansion on the PS3. Where would it hook up?

It would also be rather strange for them to come out with a whole new console and still call it the PS3 if it has differing memory.

Oh, I've read the answers all over the web and nothing has produced any excitement in my veins, thus far. I typically am known as the guy who owns every current generation console, up until this one because some titles on the PS3 were being shipped without online support while coming out for the other with such features (most notable, Virta Fighter 5).

As in previous generation consoles, there's not much I can say that won't get "OH NO, YOU ARE WRONG!" from a particular crowd, so I'm stuck having to wait a couple years for the inevitable outcome. If you think Linux running on a game console is going to generate enough revenue to make sure it will be around a long time, you are mistaken.

Note how 90% of the positive things read in forums are "Well, I need to run out and buy one of these and install Linux on it!", just like folks said two years ago, but still don't have one. The sales will be generated by games and the ability to play Blu-Ray content with, my guess, probably 1-2% of owners having a functional copy of Linux installed.

People forget what a bitch of a company Sony is when they do one little thing for the community. Give them a year or two to rear their ugly head with a new format, or legal issue, and everyone will be back to hating them. :)

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

I'm going to repeat this one more time. Sony has been supporting Linux with continuous updates (including firmware support) for 2 years, and shows every indication that Linux is an essential part of its platform strategy. That is entirely different from "doing one little thing for the community".

This platform isn't about hating or loving Sony. It's about a clearly viable, officially supported Sony platform that's been steadily improving with Sony's help for the 2 years since it was released (just like Sony had announced for at least a year before that).

And as for adding memory or memory expansion in a future version, there's no reason why that would be "a whole new console", other than the memory - unless Sony wanted to change something else at that time. If you're really as eager a collector of these consoles as you say, you must know that the PS3 was released as more of a "final beta", with several HW upgrades already (mostly economic, like dropping PS1 & PS2 HW in favor of SW emulation).

And if you read all the answers on the Web, you'd have seen in this Slashdot story where I already described a way to get more RAM, either by Flash or even a SATA external i-RAM bank.

That's enough repetition from me. I use computers to do that.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Capitalist Piggy]

That's enough repetition from me. I use computers to do that.

That's what happens when one is very selective on which content they are going to reply to.You've got a narrow point to make and apparently just want to stick to it, regardless of what someone replies with.

And as for adding memory or memory expansion in a future version, there's no reason why that would be "a whole new console", other than the memory - unless Sony wanted to change something else at that time. If you're really as eager a collector of these consoles as you say, you must know that the PS3 was released as more of a "final beta", with several HW upgrades already (mostly economic, like dropping PS1 & PS2 HW in favor of SW emulation).

I am quite aware of this-- with exception to SATA based memory (which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole), what the hell does that have to do with my collection of consoles? I collected them because they were the ones with the most games, best titles, and so on. I wouldn't buy a "final beta" of a console just for the sake of having it. I find that portion of your response rather childish and would bonk you over the head with my, self-repaired from a pile of parts, Vectrex if you were in swatting distance. Then again, you cite removal of hardware-based features an upgrade and I start to feel bad for you and would rather fix you a cup of tea.

It's not wise, this early on, to assume the PS4, or whatever they choose to call the next Playstaion, will be cell-based. With all the short-term relationships forged in technology, it's more viable to bank on an alcoholic stranger's marriage than it is to try and predict what the next generation console will bring when it's still a few years off.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[king-manic]

I wouldn't bank on a memory expansion on the PS3. Where would it hook up?

It would also be rather strange for them to come out with a whole new console and still call it the PS3 if it has differing memory. The PSP got a ram upgrade. The old version had 32mb of ram, the lite version has 64mb. The extra ram is used to buffer the UMD data to trim down load times and speed up other processes without altering computability. They also unlocked the CPU in firmware. Originally it was locked to preserve battery life, but a firmware revision unlocked from 222mhz to 333mhz. They upgraded the system and improved peripheral functions without changing core computability.

I'll be sad if they did this to the PS3 as I spent $600 for my launch 60gb, but if they do this I might pick up the unit if it's under $300. Ram is getting cheaper by the moment so it could make sense. Core gameplay would not be affected but they could also unlock the 8th SPU as yield gets better and have it run a thread utilizing the extra memory for something. As long as developers still target the old spec, they could add ram and enable other features such as better linux support or picture in picture (play a mpeg off the HD while playing your game).

I'm not holding my breath but this particular company has already done a ram upgrade to an existing platform. Offered new features without breakign compatability or changing developers targets and fracturing their market.

Re:PSUbuntu.com

[Doc Ruby]

IRC #ps3dev, #ps3linux and #spu-medialib on Freenode. CVS (when it's ready) at http://git.spu-medialib.org/ .

Where is the real opengl?

[AHuxley]

Thats the key, Sony could have a really cool dev community one day if it opens 3d hardware.

Re:Where is the real opengl?

[sqldr]

I've answered this before, but I'll do it again - I regularly have lunch with a tools programmer at Sony, and to dispel any rumours, Sony aren't against providing an opengl implementation to linux. I can't say too much, but there is work going on on this, but with no urgency and there are technical hurdles. Firstly, the PS3 doesn't come with opengl - the 3D api is called RSX. They won't be releasing this technology, and it wouldn't allow immediate compilation of 3D linux games anyway. An opengl implementation has to be implemented from the ground up, and in a way that protects the bios and copy protection layer from hacking. It might sell one or two more ps3s, but it won't sell any ps3 games, which is where sony make their profit.

In other words, someone is doing it, more as a hobby project, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Re:Where is the real opengl?

[Ant P.]

They can't do that, because if they did there'd be huge demand for the hardware but nobody buying games. They'd lose even more money than they're doing now.

Re:Where is the real opengl?

[ErikTheRed]

I've answered this before, but I'll do it again - I regularly have lunch with a tools programmer at Sony, and to dispel any rumours, Sony aren't against providing an opengl implementation to linux. I can't say too much, but there is work going on on this, but with no urgency and there are technical hurdles. Firstly, the PS3 doesn't come with opengl - the 3D api is called RSX. They won't be releasing this technology, and it wouldn't allow immediate compilation of 3D linux games anyway. An opengl implementation has to be implemented from the ground up, and in a way that protects the bios and copy protection layer from hacking. It might sell one or two more ps3s, but it won't sell any ps3 games, which is where sony make their profit. In other words, someone is doing it, more as a hobby project, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Your friend might want to consider setting up a bounty for his work. I'd kick in $50. I'm sure at least 2 or 3 other people might, too ;-)

It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

What's "news" is that this isn't the release version of Linux on PS3 that you installed back then, and that now it actually works.

There is indeed now a X/MPlayer video driver that runs full 1080p HD right on the Cell CPU.

And I don't know why you think the Cell CPU "really isn't designed for general purpose computing". That Cell includes a 3.2GHz multithreaded PowerPC that runs all PPC distro Linux SW right out of the distro, as apt-get'able binaries. And there are drivers and apps that use the Cell's 200GFLOPS of onboard DSPs for real computing, like that driver to which I just linked. The Cell is being used by IBM as the CPU in its highest end workstations and blade servers, as well as some of the fastest supercomputers on the drawing board - all running Linux compatible with the one on the Cell.

Look, I understand that 2 years ago the PS3's initial Linux support was more of a novelty, when the PS3 itself had been rushed to market before even the HW was really ready. But the past 2 years has seen its Linux support pass the stage where it's just a "dancing poodle" to where it's more like a husky sleighdog or a border collie. And the reason is that interested people have helped upgrade its Linux support. Linux is open-source so that users can improve it. Which people have done. It still needs a lot of help, but mainly because its potential is so huge, with the onboard supercomputer and built-in WiFi/Bluetooth/Blu-Ray/HDMI/7.1-audio/Gb-ethernet, all for $500. And that chance for volunteers to continue to shape the platform is exciting news for a lot of people, many of whom are exactly the kinds of geeks who read Slashdot.

And I hear it plays games, too.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

That would be great. But meanwhile, people have had success using FlashROM drives in the USB ports mapped as swap. So I expect that mounting a SATA i-RAM drive as swap would work even better. If someone hacked malloc() to use that i-RAM over SATA as actual pageable memory, not just swap (with all its overhead, like swapping :), the RAM problems might be solvable.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Ed Avis]

Bandying about GHz numbers and arguing about whether or not it's a real PowerPC processor doesn't get you anywhere. Let's see some results from the only benchmark that matters: the Linux kernel compile benchmark. (It can be accepted by all sides that the PS3 has some fairly monstrous floating point hardware, but sadly that doesn't speed up gcc.)

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Sleepy]

Here's what's wrong with your (and all the other) comments that the "Cell is not a good processor for Linux/computing", etc:

You are observing bad performance (correct) but drawing in-correct conclusions as to the source of the problem.

** I'll put it more simply than the other replies: GCC compilers for the Cell processor SUCKS. **
That's all people need to know.

Everyone's assuming that because Linux "works" on the Cell, it's on equal footing with other PowerPC. It's not the "same" PowerPC, and therefore there are NO or ALMOST NO optimizations for Cell-targeted compiles.

The problem's not likely to get better because those who know compiler optimization magic, are not (for a variety of reasons) working to improve the PS3 Cell performance.

Sony also is not afraid of a good performing Linux on the PS3. What they don't want is to lose control of the software toolchain and this is why they lock out the graphics chip and some of the DMA functions. The software performance issue is one that can be fixed, if enough people care to improve GCC.

Overall I'm pleased with Linux on PS3. This is Sony's SECOND attempt, and it's better than the first. Microsoft and Nintendo won't go there (Heck, you can not even install your OWN standard SATA drive on a XB36... you need a proprietary drive, but PS3 owners are dropping in 250GB standard laptop drives to make room for big Linux installs).

This could be a fad, but I think this is a concept that will grow. Sony's obviously benefits by watching to see what people want to do to 'extend' their platform, without yielding control of the platform completely (which would be nice, but that's how they recover their costs)

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[bugg]

That's the only benchmark that matters if all you're planning to do with the machine is compile the Linux kernel.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Ed Avis]

Why else would you buy one?

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[drinkypoo]

What's the maximum bandwidth of the PS3's SATA? Does it come anywhere even vaguely close to the PS3's memory bandwidth? The maximum speed possible from SATA today is what, 300MB/sec? Let's see... "5.6GB/s main memory bandwidth, 22.4GB/s video memory bandwidth" Not to mention that it goes WAY the hell beyond hacking malloc() - all that does is allocate some memory, which has to already be addressable.

Your driver would not only have to be able to address blocks of storage as blocks of memory, and have to rewrite it in storage-sized blocks (probably at least 512b) but it would also have to handle fetching the data over the SATA interface via a high-latency protocol (compared to a memory bus, anyway) and feeding it to the OS, which would have to copy it to a temporary location in memory before the CPU would be able to use the data.

We already have a strategy for this, it's called paging. On Unix, we call it swapping. Congratulations: the very thing you wanted to recreate already exists, and it's the very thing you're trying to get away from!

Or perhaps you realized all this, and this was just some very dry humor. In which case, I am sad to inform you, it was sufficiently dry but not exceptionally humorous. Well, at least, not on the level which you intended.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

PS3 SATA appears to be only 1.5TB (SATA I), which is of course much slower than PS3 XDR main memory, and glacial compared to DMA on the Cell, which has (and depends on) onchip local storage in each SPE.

So the malloc() patches necessary are a lot more than I describe. But relying on swap across SATA means swapping the XDR data out across SATA to i-RAM, and i-RAM data back to XDR every time. That's going to suck compared to just addressing the i-RAM directly (1 SATA transit).

The real memory architecture is probably a series of SW caches, from SPU local to XDR via Cell DMA, then i-RAM "extended memory", with apps able to fetch specific data from a pointer that points at either the faster cache or the more latent storage. It's a pretty serious algorithm to keep several tiers of demand-degree in the right proximity cache, as well as the tag structure, but it would make the machine a very serious beast for the $400 price. The alternative is for each app to code directly in its own demand terms to each of those increasingly latent storage address ranges, but since i-RAM isn't standard, that's asking a lot. The right way is to somehow map these differently performant storage ranges into a kernel memory driver, for all apps to use transparently, some more effectively (when they map to the optimization strategy), but all with the RAM limit removed (or moved to a much higher limit, of the i-RAM capacity).

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

I think that the XMB itself is probably running on a Linux kernel. I don't know about the GameOS that the actual games run on, which might be something else entirely. But the OS the PS3 boots into that lets you choose games, surf the Web, and runs as a home media center shows all the signs of running under embedded Linux.

Sony has just released the HES-V1000, an embedded home media server (with 200-disc jukebox, BD, HD PVR, HD video/audio outs, ethernet) that is said to run embedded Linux. It's pretty new, but I'm waiting to see if someone can hack a Linux root (remote) shell into it.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[suggsjc]

all for $500

Now it can even be had for less.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[drinkypoo]

I personally believe that the real alternative is to use the PS3 as a networked processing engine, and not try to use it as a PC at all. When you're not using it for network rendering or something, it can be a Blu-Ray player or even a game machine! If you really want to use a Cell processor for general computing, or in a general computing machine, you are still going to want more memory - and in this day, you will probably want more memory than the PS3 has inside of it ever if you were allowed to address it all. The PS3 has GigE, so there is adequate bandwidth available (assuming you can run it anywhere near capacity) to feed the thing data. Meanwhile, a PC of around the same price will have more luck at actually spitting out HD video (PS3 games and officially licensed video discs aside.)

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

Well, the best model right now is PS3 as a stream processor for tasks that require 200FLOPS:byte, and which benefit from HDMI display. PS3 as a media terminal for a PC server infrastructure is a good use case, especially with the introduction of the HES-V1000 media server, which itself looks like a PS3 turned into a server (to the network as well as to non-network multimedia appliances like TVs and stereos).

Would you like to spec out a $400 PC with 1080p HDMI and 7.1 analog + optical digital outputs, Gb-e, WiFi, Blu-Ray and a Bluetooth remote? With the PiP and other video effects that the PS3 will do as SW is written for it, like the X/MPlayer drivers already in late beta?

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[drinkypoo]

The problem is that the usefulness of the HD output is currently limited to mplayer and the framebuffer device and doesn't support highly desirable types of video. Someday, it will be useful. I just wonder if the Xbox 360 protection will have been cracked by then... I haven't bought either system, and am waiting to find out which one actually becomes useful to me. I'm hoping it's the 360, because it looks much more useful for general-purpose computing.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

Actually, spu-medialib is a driver for ffmpeg, which lets MPlayer and other video apps (including, I think, vlc) do HD 1080p playback, and the X driver is of course even more general purpose.

What's the problem with the framebuffer -> HDMI? And what's stopping someone from adding codecs to the spu-medialib driver? What's stopping you from helping make the PS3 what you want it to be?

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[drinkypoo]

What's stopping you from helping make the PS3 what you want it to be?

First, Sony has explicitly worked to prevent it. I don't feel like fighting an uphill battle. Second, it's Sony. I'm not doing anything to promote them, period. I will enjoy the fruits of the labors of others, though.

I do contribute to some open source projects - something on the Playstation 3 is not and probably never will be among them, though you never know.

the framebuffer-based X driver is slow and will probably always be slower than a native implementation.

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[rootooftheworld]

cant you get 3d support by exteding the vm as a game- they get full suport it think - just a thought

Re:It's News That It Works Now

[Doc Ruby]

You need to do that with the full expensive Sony SDK, and pay Sony the royalty with every copy sold. I think that and more conflicts with the GPL.

Why Ubuntu? They dropped PPC support

[chriseh]

I don't get it. Ubuntu officially dropped PPC support last year.

So, why would Popular Mechanics recommend Ubuntu when you could download Yellow Dog Linux (for free as well from public mirrors), which is developed by the company hired by Sony to develop linux for the PS3. This sounds somewhat odd.

Disclaimer: I work for Terra Soft Solutions, so I've clearly got a bias here.

Playstation 3 and 3D graphics

[Sectrish]

While the hypervisor may have tucked away the 3D hardware pretty nicely, there may still be hope for some 3D prowess on the PS3 yet. Maybe some of you have heard of Gallium3D, the new driver framework from Tungsten Graphics (of Mesa/DRI/DRI2 fame)?

In any case, in this article on phoronix, and on some other pages I can't re-find, they're talking about a Gallium driver for the PS3, which could probably transparantly use the vector processing units as a dedicated 3D card. I for one, am looking forward to this working out.

Does it ?

[Kingston]

Yes but does it run Li... Oh yes I see right, ah

Imagine a Beow.. Oh what, they have er

First Post, yes, no, Ok I'm off then.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

The best PS3 mod would be to use

LINUX MCE

http://www.linuxmce.org

Total media center, game center, home automation and security center, asterisk telephone conole, everything... including LTSP built-in (might be able to play games in other rooms of the house too)?

Hey - Linux MCE is GPL software... so, if anyone wanted to do a custom distro of LINUX MCE, this PS3 platform might be a winner.

Coolness, but....

[abstrak_tokatl]

why would you want to? spend what? like 600 bucks, and then you're just gonna turn it in to a linux box? stupid!

Re:Coolness, but....

[rob1980]

Only if you were into the gaming/Blu-Ray aspects as well. If you're buying a PS3 just to make a Linux box out of it, then you're better off going to Newegg and building something out on your own.

Gromacs on a cell?

[Smeagel]

Since when is gromacs optimized for the cell? Gromacs sucks pretty bad at scaling as it is, but I don't think it'd even use the SPU's (from what I can tell it hasn't been optimized for the cell) - meaning you're basically running it on the processor of a 5 year old mac. Now if you optimized it for a cell...then this thing would be blazing.

Re:Gromacs on a cell?

[kesuki]

Can you find a better $400 computer for calculating molecular dynamics?

I'm just asking, I know you can get a dual core for under 400, but even the cheapest quad core and the rest of the system is going to be garbage grade..

About everything you say ins inaccurate

[Smeagel]

not informative at all. Wireless most certainly does work out of the box. As does bluetooth for both controllers and keyboards. On top of that there's been a bunch of work to port CPU intensive things (like the framebuffer and mplayer/mencoder) to the SPU's. They're in various states, but mplayer at least is able to play most video files of any size seamlessly because it dumps it on the SPU's. In the future, I'd suggest not attempting to write posts being informative on technology when your knowledge of the technology is clearly 18 months to 2 years old.

How to Turn a PlayStation 3 Into a Linux **PC**

[unforkable]

Actually the term "PC" isn't accurate for talking about a cell-based architecure.

Actually

[Smeagel]

The SPU's can do integer math very fast, the problem is all software has to have SPU optimization (which is not trivial) written into it in order to utilize the SPU's. The odds of that happening to something like GCC is nonexistent...who cares enough to do that...nobody. But programs that are actually considered necessities to run fast (mplayer/mencoder, X11 driver) have already been ported and will run blazingly fast using the SPU's.

Why???

[roster238]

Isn't this like taking a Ferrari and turning it into a 74 Ford Pinto?

Re:Why???

[Big Hairy Ian]

No it's like taking a sun fire red Ferrari re-painting it sun fire red and saying look I made a Ferrari.

Re:Blu-Ray Players not Cheap? WTF?

[raptor386]

Ah you are correct sir, I had originally thought that MythTV supported Blu-Ray out of the box, but that isn't the case. I stand corrected. I suppose it's true that PS3 has made some headway to becoming a solid system. Perhaps it will be a decent competitor once the NEXT generation comes out...

Huh so you installed linux on a linux box

[Big Hairy Ian]

Woopidoo I thought it ran in a Linux kernel anyway. That's just one of the reasons the academic world has started using them for number crunching rather the massivley expensive supercomputers. Wow what a waste of a thread

$399

[News for nerds]

Just a correction :) The 40GB unit only lacks PS2 BC and 2 USB ports, other features are the same. And it consumes less watts.

It is great, but...

[PinchDuck]

It is awesome that Sony has made the PS3 so upgradable. What sucks, though, is that you have less than 256 megs to play with, X is too slow to really be usable, and you don't get access to the RSX engine. All in all, though, it is pretty cool.
Here is a guide to not only install linux, but actually start programming with the Cell:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-linuxps3-1/

Mainstream desire for Linux is certainly news.

[BrunoUsesBBEdit]

I think the news worthy part of this is that installing Linux has become so mainstream that publications like Popular Mechanics is now instructing its readers on how to do it. That is pretty amazing.

Detractors can say what they want about the traction that Linux is gaining and how Vista "out sells" it. However, it is undeniable that the public is showing an increasing interest in getting to use Linux.

Why?

[framauro13]

A better title might be "How To Ruin A PS3".

Re:Blu-Ray Players not Cheap? WTF?

[Tony]

It's actually very good hardware. Although there were a couple of excellent early titles, it's taken a while for the games to catch up, but they are catching up now.

I am a tri-gamer these days. In my opinion, the only game that makes the XBox worthwhile is Gears of War. (I'm really looking forward to Gow2.) Halo 3 was OK, but it left me feeling a bit empty.

The PS3 has caught up to the XBox in terms of games. Then there's games like Metal Gear Solid 4, which comes out in a week. It basically fills the BluRay disc. You couldn't have a game like that for the XBox. And, by all accounts, the visuals and gameplay beat what is currently available for the XBox.

I don't think you have to wait until the next generation for it to be a decent competitor. It's a damned solid system, superior in many ways to the XBox. In fact, the only thing I prefer on the XBox is the XBox Live system over the PS3 network. Sony's catching up even there, but it's still not as solid as XBox Live.

As an aside, does anyone else hate the blade interface on the 360? It's functionally the same as the XMB, but cluttered, and made worse by fucking advertisements on every page. God, that pisses me off.

Anyway, just my $.02. As someone who has all three systems, I can assure you, I far prefer the PS3 as a gaming system.

In other "news"...

[Undead NDR]

Just imagine a beowulf cluster of those...

Boot-os-game

[dmacleod808]

I swear to god all mighty (jesus christ is my jewish brother) that in order to boot into PS3 again you need to type BOOT-GAME-OS... not BOOT-OS-GAME im not home so i cant confirm this.... can anyone confirm for me? I lvoe linux on my ps3, its a great backup pc... its just a we bit slugggish.

XBMC

[HalAtWork]

Sounds like a really good opportunity for the XBMC Linux port, a distro customized to the PS3 just for XBMC.

LinuxMCE

[Doc Ruby]

Actually, I think the LinuxMCE project is better suited to using PS3s as "Media Directors" (media terminals).

I'm still waiting for

[slapout]

...the article "How to Turn a Linux PC into a PlayStation 3"

Re:Using PS3 as a server, has anyone tried mysql ?

[Doc Ruby]

The weakest possible use case I could think of for a PS3 right now is as a database server. It's got 256MB RAM for everything, including the OS, apps and data. DBs haven't been recoded to use the Cell's DSPs, and might not be for a long long time. And you'd be ignoring all the multimedia HW that the PS3 does offer.

For $400, nearly any i386/compatible PC will make a much better DB server than a PS3.

SDTV output

[tepples]

This, to me, is the same kind of fluff the Dreamcast got a few years back when people began running Linux on it. You know, when everyone was jabbering about it being a "super computer", seeming to ignore how you can't upgrade the memory, processor, or any other components But at least if you run Linux on a video game console, the video card has a decent SDTV output compared to some PCs (blurry SDTV output, or more commonly no SDTV output at all). Not all my relatives have HDTVs yet.

With ease

[Smeagel]

W/O the SPU's or graphics processor, the PS3 is actually a very slow machine. A $400 dell would be much faster at doing MD work (especially since gromacs probably has tons of x86 optimizations in it) than a PS3 would.

Re:With ease

[kesuki]

"(especially since gromacs probably has tons of x86 optimizations in it) than a PS3 would."

http://www.gromacs.org/content/view/25/

I wouldn't bank on that, it gets almost Double the processing done on a g5 with a slower clock than a high end p-4. you might have wanted to look into that before you put your foot in your mouth. according to wikipedia the SPE in the ps3 is clocked to 3.2 ghz.

"Linux Pentium 4 1 Intel 8 3000 1024 10176 2280 1353 164 3045 357 0.95"

"Apple G5 PPC 970 1 IBM 2500 512 15309 4177 2213 175 5069 544 1.74"

Re:With ease

[kesuki]

i forget to include a AMD number.

"Linux Athlon 64 1 Intel 8 2200 512 9446 2592 1641 190 4092 408 1.48"

apparently, you want to buy AMD processors, or PPC when it comes to molecular dynamics. by and far PPC is way in the lead though, i'd have to imagine that a single PS3, without full SPU support runs gromacs about as good as a dual core AMD. if SPU support is added in, a PS3 is faster than a cluster of 4 quad core phenoms... i guess, gromacs is almost designed to run on a PS3.

Re:With ease

[Smeagel]

Also those benchmarks are almost 3 years old! lol! The x86_64 architecture has made some pretty significant leaps and bounds in the last THREE YEARS .

Re:With ease

[Bootarn]

IIRC, the main purpose of this project is not to actually use a PS3 for the computing, but rather to make GROMACS run on more powerful instances of the cell processor. This is just the first step.

Re:With ease

[kesuki]

but you can see why a person trusting the data on the gromacs page would try to run it on a PS3 rather than on some cheap wintel box from an oem? what if their department head is a big wintel bigot? not an AMD machine under the roof unless it belongs to someone besides the university?

A pretty important omission

[Smeagel]

It doesn't say whether gromacs was built for floats or doubles. If floats then I could see PPC being very competitive due to altivec, but if it's in double than the x86_64 architecture should kill it, as right now (I just met with an IBM supercomputing team about a month ago) there is no way to do SIMD for doubles on the PPC chips.

Also to generalize gromacs==molecular dynamics is a bit silly. There are tons of other molecular dynamics packages out there. Also there is nothing special about a PPC chip that should make it better for molecular dynamics. In fact since double precision accuracy is usually necessary for true science, PPC chips should be at a disadvantage to x86 chips. If by some miracle gromacs had 3.0ghz ppc's performing better than 3.0ghz Opteron/Xeon's it's because their code was poorly written to utilize SIMD.