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Microsoft Demos "Deep Zoom" Technology
Barence writes "Yesterday, during a presentation for this year's Imagine Cup, Microsoft's Mark Taylor demonstrated the company's Deep Zoom technology to appreciative gasps of admiration from the computing students present. It's pretty impressive stuff, and you can try 'deep zooming' for yourself at the Hard Rock Memorabilia Site." Unfortunately the demo requires the Silverlight plugin and the story is pretty thin on technical details. I would be interested to see how they captured the image data to that level without massive pixelation.
When I read Imagine Cup, I did a double take. Back in the 90s, Impulse, the company that made the popular 3D software Imagine, had a program called "Imagine CUP", which stood for Imagine Constant Upgrade Program. It allowed users to pay for the upgrade to Imagine up front and they could receive all the minor versions inbetween the major versions.
So is this digital zoom stuff like the software that they "download off the internet in CSI: Miami" *Snicker*
Makes me think of drug pushing: the first sample is free. Nancy Reagan, don't fail me now!
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
didn't I see this in CSI ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
seen CSI? This technology is so passe.
My understanding is that you use different resolutions of the photo. The original photo is obviously the highest res you can have, but you can make successively lower res copies. More or less just bring up a a higher res version when the user clicks.
I saw this demoed at the Atlanta Code Camp back in March. Very cool to watch.
They do this all the time on CSI.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I would be interested to see how they captured the image data to that level without massive pixelation.
... you don't actually think that the image data came from one photo ... do you?
You don't
*slaps forehead*
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
Unfortunately the demo requires the Silverlight plugin...
A Microsoft tech demo requires the installation of new Microsoft software to view? Who would have though?
While Silverlight might never be as widely-supported as Flash, I hope that perhaps the competition might force Adobe to do something about the CPU hog that is Flash.
But how is this different different from google maps (or live maps, or WHATEVER allows you to zoom out a lot)..
That sucks.
It requires the Silverlight 2.0 plugin which says it won't work on a pre-Intel Mac.
The pre-Intel Macs only get Silverlight 1.0 per Microsoft's site.
Nice. Now I have to upgrade a whole computer to view a freakin' website?
My mom says I'm cool.
Enhance...Enhance...Enhance...
db
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
The article, the pictures... it all seems to be too good to be true. Here's one of many of my problems with this: The stamp. Is this supposed to be real? It certainly looks fake. Zooming is nothing new, and I'm sure that if I took a hi-rez pic, and squeezed it into a part of another hi-rez pic, it would be cool to zoom out of too. Now, the fact they squeezed that much data into an file for viewing on the interwebs is impressive, but I still hate Silverlight. Perhaps they can do that with some useful stuff, like footage from the JFK assassination... perhaps we can look at a reflection in glass and see that it's no Lee Harvey Oswald but actually "Cancer Man"!
Silverlight's MultiScaleImage control (aka deep zoom) is a version of the SeaDragon renderer. The image format it uses is a custom tree structure that contains pixel details relevant to both it's position in the tree and relative to it's peers. Essentially, it's a hierarchical image with very smooth transitions.
Silverlight: silverlight.net
SeaDragon: http://labs.live.com/seadragon.aspx
The Beatles models and signatures pear to be the highest level of detail unless there are other "Easter eggs". That level of zoom on any surrounding areas is pixelated. They have stacked multiple high res photos at various scales in this particular area.
How is this impressive?
that ability to zoom into a picture with far better clarity than the picture offers. deep zooming would seem to be a wrapper for high res pictures
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Ian Griffiths implemented a deep zoom for the BBC in their Big Weekend festival. Rather pleasingly they chose to call it the "Big Zoomy Thing" in a nice bit of anti-jargon.
--- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
Typical Microsoft.. they bought out a company that created the technology. It's called Microsoft Photosynth and this video explains how they do it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEcHcRqxmj4
The folks at CMU have a similar thing:
http://gigapan.org/
It uses a (cheap) commodity digital camera, combined with a smart tripod, good photo stitching software, and a nice Flash UI to give you highly zoomable panoramas. The CMU thing has been around for a while --- over a year at least, plus I'm pretty sure you can get one of the tripod mounts if you participate in the beta and create your own.
There next product for stealing your checkbook while Windows does a colonoscopy
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
... I misread this as "Imagine Crap" at first. I suspect I was right first time too.
"The Silverlight plugin does not work on pre-Intel Macs. Sorry."
embrace, extend, extinguish.
I admit the demo is neat and all, but they are not really zooming into the same image. They have just developed a way to quickly load the high resolution image on the fly. Kind of like how Google Maps will deliver a higher res map when you zoom in; but this is happening much faster.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
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The idea pre-dates CSI. Does anyone remember the movie "Powers of Ten" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_Ten) I remember watching this in science class in middle school and being pretty impressed.
Pubes?
Most people go ooh and aah because they (wrongly) assume that it zooms into normal resolution photos .
It doesnt (because as you and I know, it physically can't).
Deep Zoom does NOT perform CSI/CIA-style photo enhancement. If you dig deeper, you will find that what Deep Zoom is intended for is to enable one to focus on a smaller portion of a giga-pixel photograph so you do not have to download the whole photograph.
Think of it like a hierarchical smooth slicing of a large high resolution photograph and only downloading those "planes" and "sections within a plane" that the user is interested in seeing.
Interesting technology but not magic.
There is two ways to get this level of zoom to work:
1) have the pixels in the first place
2) having more pixels in the first place.
Anything else is a fundamental violation of the laws of physics and math. You simply can not fake what you don't have without it being exactly that: a fake. There is no storage printing technology which could accomplish this level of zooming, and they carefully do not say that this is actually a continuous zoom of a picture on a stamp.
Deep Zoom works by letting you meld several images in such a way as pretend its one image.
Basically, its a con-job of transitioning several different images, where one is a re-photograph of sub portion of the original.
The implication of the article is that this is all one image containing a nearly infinite level of detail, which it most emphatically is NOT.
The author is probably equally impressed by street corner magic tricks.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Just installed the silverlight plugin for FF. Everytime I try to close the page to the Hard Rock site, FF crashes.
Great product!
Seriously, how is this making people "gasps"? Take a higher res photo and guess what... you can zoom in more!
Magic!
Oh, and being able to zoom in on a monster sized image, a small portion at a time, is not "gasp" material.
Have a display window, shift it around to display the portion of the pic you want to see. "Gasp"!
Don't we already have the ability to process multi-resolution images in, for example, Google Maps? You know, zooming in and out images with large total resolution?
It would be impressive if the photo they demonstrated on was anything but a photoshop, but given that the 428x134 signature is 52x11 in the 350x237 statuette picture which is 29x26 in the 428x350 hard rock picture which is 87x87 in the 428x399 stamp picture, for the stamp to be real would require a 33 gigapixel stamp (which, at 1 inch square, would be printed at 33,000,000,000 DPI).
To me zooming in and displaying a different image isn't really as exciting at the article author makes it sound? Maybe I'm missing something because the journalist sounds pretty damn excited about it.
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
But the viewer is 126G.
wasn't this demonstrated at a TED conference, umm...2 years ago?? I'm almost certain it was. There was an image of the entire text of some story that was several dozen pages, each page holding an entire chapter of several thousand words, and you could zoom to any level. years ago. way to go, microsoft.
I was at the event as an Imagine Cup finalist, and the technology on display was very impressive. The Deep Zoom application was demoed as from the Hard Rock Cafe Memorabilia site, and looked very fun to play with indeed. The zoomed-in bits were very impressive. My live blog of the day: http://www.chris-alexander.co.uk/?post=19
Ferret
So, wait... Is this some new technology, or just the ajax from google earth ported to silverlite? This is just another in a long line of ripoffs that M$ has pulled.
-TheDawgLives suckitdown
There is pink dress near the bottom right corner. The legend says it was worn by Britney Spears. On top of the dress is a photo of Britney Spears wearing the dress.
I zoomed all the way in hoping that I could see Britney wearing that dress. Of course, it's too low rez and you can't even tell it's Britney.
DeepZoom is not that deep after all. I would have let out an "ahhh" if I could have seen Britney.
Are people forgetting that "Microsoft doesn't innovate"?
OOOOOOOh, it's requires Silverlight. I'm not going to waste 10 seconds installing that!
Oh come now, that's not "revolutionary". Why not?
Because this is basically a very simple technology of stacked images. In fact, it is not much more than a proper implementation of a scaling algorithm plus intelligent preloading/guessing of "the data we will need next".
No black magic in there, no "how the frell did they do THAT". For me.
I felt pretty frelled when I got a first glimpse of google maps. That was "revolutionary" stuff. Or Quake I, for that matter. Years earlier, Wolfenstein 3D. Or the Wii-mote.
Fast deep image navigation? w00t.
Surface, that's a neat idea. Wait until they cripple it with DRM and stuff, but it's a neat idea in the first place.
I'm assuming this is the same technology presented at TED.
He does a more exciting demo than that Hardrock one.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129
It crashed Firefox 3.0 on my Mac Book after installing the plug in and viewing the demo.
are there others reading /. that are thinking.. Yawn, wake me when it's working like Google maps only much better?
I realize that it's new, and takes effort, but I can't break out the oohs and aaahhhs just yet. No matter how good it is, is it worth upgrading for?
Car analogy: Isn't this like demonstrating a concept car that they intend to put into production, but production will be a little bit different?
I'll wait for SP2 (or equivalent), thanks very much.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Go to Pouet and you'll find many demonstrations of this effect.
jdb2
Jesus you guys call yourselves techies!!!
Its been live for awhile on hardrock and obviously its not pixelating cause its one MASSIVE stiched together image set in super high resolution.
The real question is how they progressively update the images.
See Charles and Ray Eames' Powers of Ten. Now that's a zoom.
As for doing it in real time, Keyhole (bought by Google and renamed Google Earth) was doing this on PCs five years ago. Any decent GPU can do this today, and you can download Google Earth to see it.
I saw one of the first systems able to do this in real time about 25 years ago. It was inside a classified tank at a major aerospace firm, and required a rack of special-purpose hardware. The user interface was beautifully simple - a big trackball (for pan), a lever (for zoom), and a knob (for rotation).
Even Microsoft's little film isn't original. That technique has been used a few times in commercials.
So Silverlight doing this isn't exactly a big "wow" development.
KEWL! now they can spot bugs from a mile away!!!
There is Moonlight for Linux and as there are ports of Linux for PowerPC CPUs and Moonlight is open source, you would only have to upgrade your OS.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Lol you have to be kidding. Non-Intel macs are dead, they are not being supported by a wide range of vendors, including their creator, Apple. Per Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5
"Leopard drops support for slower G4 and all G3 processors".
It's just a matter of time.
So they have pictures.
And if you zoom in, it loads the higher quality pics.
If you zoom out, it loads the lower quality pics.
That's nice and all, but it doesn't deserve it's own Web 2.0 style name. Sure, it does it quickly, but for all I know the damned thing could just be loading progressive jpegs in the background. Not exactly rocket science. Maybe add some logic to make it load stuff near the center of your view first. It's not magic, it shouldn't require silverlight, and I really don't care about it.
I don't watch much TV, but the functionality is awfully similar to GigaPan.
They opened Flash so you can write your own interpreter. I guess they're hoping someone else will make it less of a CPU hog.
As I'm reading the descriptions and seeing it on YouTube, I'm thinking I've SEEN something like this before.
And I finally remembered; Jef Raskin's "Humane Interface".
Zooming demo from several years ago that runs in Flash here.
Quite similar, IMHO. Hmm?
erm, is it just me, or is this just mipmapping? hell isn't google maps and the variants just the ultimate 'deep zoom'? i really fail to see how this is something new.
So let me get this straight. You're saying they didn't stack a ton of memorabilia in a pile and take a picture of it?
I am a v1ral sig. Plse c0py me and h3lp me spread. Thank y0u?
If you zoom in pretty close and scan over the image and drag the image to the left or right .. you'll eventually see that each image is not really just 1 image, but made up of sections of the image that have been "pasted" together to form one larger image....
Again, i reiterate... these are _NOT_ 1 image pictures. Zoom in and you will find lines that break the pictures apart.
You can see this for example on the lower left corner guitar. zoom into where the neck meets the guitar and look at the right side of the neck (our right) and you'll see a vertical line where the image is split.
So I followed the link to http://memorabilia.hardrock.com/ - even installed the Silverlight plugin, against my best judgment just to check out this "new and exciting" technology... and it just looks like fairly high rez images. While that's all fine and dandy... it's nothing spectacular to me.
/rant
Not to mention, when I went from http://memorabilia.hardrock.com/ to http://www.slashdot.org/ Firefox crashed. Way to go MS. Thanks for reaffirming my feelings about how fscking horrible every piece of software that comes out of your company is.
if I were able to see further, it was because I stood on the shoulders of Giants -Newton
So how is this different from mip-mapping with bilinear filtering?
Fotomagico photo zoom transition, notice the video demo at the top of the page: http://www.boinx.com/fotomagico/overview/storytelling/
The real trick is finding an image with boring enough edges that you can pretend it came from the other. You'll notice on the Microsoft image demos they mostly have solid color edges except for the Planet Hollywood picture which is followed by something so busy you can't really tell where it fits in.
I got the program at least 2 years ago with one of those $50 software bundles where you save $10 on one program you really wanted and get 4 free ones thrown in. The program is cool and all but as others have said it's just a digital magic trick. I just wanted to document this prior art incase Microsoft tries to patent it.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Somebody please ask them to just code this up as an applet.
Keyword is 'slower'. Faster G4s and G5s (such as my 1GHz G4 w/ 512 mb ram) still run great under 10.5. Mac OS X 10.6, on the other hand...
no Silverlight required
Yeah, it's a shame a kick ass web site like Hard Rock Memorabilia decided to use such a crappy browser plugin. Silverlight, just what we need, yet another redundant browser plugin to allow script kiddie web 2.0 geeks to create annoying flashy sites with crappy embedded music. Isn't that why many of us already hate flash?
But redundancy to existing standards and software is what M$ is all about! That, and churning out a large base of low skill script kiddies who think they are programmers. (think developers developers developers)
What's this deep zooming technology do... cause so far I've seen nothing that cant be accomplished with some hobbled together homemade code, a dozen well made photos, and a copy of photoshop to put them together...
In fact I've seen stuff like this before... going back to the 90s. Next thing you know we will have the new "Uber Pointers." They are these little devices that sit on your desk and when you move them a pointer on your screen moves with them. This allows you to selects stuff on the screen and even activate these things we call "Uber Buttons." Cool huh?
Can someone hurry up and write a Silverlight interpreter inside of a Flash control?
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
We'd seen this stuff before.
Panorado's 360 viewer and others doing fast in-browswer pan/zoom as a Java applet for years.
That Beatles letter used as an example is weird... the cars in the hi-res stamp (much higher res than the rest of the envelope, btw) don't appear to date from '62... was that stamp just added after the fact as an example of what could be with this technology?
Not impressed... I saw this kind of nifty zooming stuff when google maps launched...
This is hardly new technology. Isn't 'deep zooming' what I've been brought up to know as... well... 'zooming'?
I believe there was a demo, around a year ago, that Steve Jobs did at WWDC to demonstrate how Mac OS X had new 64-bit exploitation abilities in Leopard. If I remember correctly, he brought up two copies of the same image, to do a 'race' (32-bit vs. 64-bit). It was a wide shot of a chamber in the Library of Congress, and it was sufficiently detailed that one could zoom in and read the labels on the spines.
Now, with this, Jobs was demonstrating that the technology to zoom in to such hi-res images has been around for ages. It's hardly new technology.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
I mean, with Google Earth you can zoom through several powers of ten from planet to house... What makes this "technology" special? Because it's implemented as a browser plugin?
I've got the 1.42 GHz PPC Mini, and Leopard has been great, and with 10.5.3 it got even better when they fixed a graphics issue.
If Microsoft and some websites don't want viewers, fine. Their loss.
I think it's reasonable to only support the current and previous version of an OS. Microsoft, Red Hat and others all have that model (usually).
Oh well, c'est la vie.
My mom says I'm cool.
On a slightly divergent note, what is "unfortunate" about Silverlight? I would have assumed that any invention that gets rid of the plague named "flash" would be welcome to the Slashdot crowd? Even something from Microsoft. Although, unfortunately I was using Safari on a Mac, Silverlight downloaded and installed automatically without a hitch. Much better than most Mac applications where I have to spend time in first minimizing the browser, resizing the downloads window, openning the Mac HD folder, openning the applications folder and then "carefully" dragging and dropping the new software to the applications folder. Only to find out later that the application was dropped somewhere else. I'm a new Mac user and I'm sure the Mac fanboys would point out the flaw in my method, but then, isn't the Mac just supposed to WORK? Yeah right!
It's a bunch of photos that were photoshopped to look like it's zooming out -_-. Even the article says so. This is nothing fascinating, you could probably do it in Flash.
Enhance...ENHANCE! ENHANCE!!!
Anybody else catch the thank-you letter from Paul McCartney to a cop who served as his bodyguard in Miami (it's a little more than halfway down on the left side)? Four pages! How cool is that?
I have FF 2.0.0.14 and all I get is a black screen at http://memorabilia.hardrock.com/
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
A Vanessa Lane or Bridgette Kerkove 'Deep Zoom'?
Think of the possibilities...
I saw a video of this demo from TED2007 when it was called Photosynth, formerly Seadragon. Would it have killed Microsoft to have kept either of these much cooler names? I don't know which clueless marketing droid came up with this incredibly lame moniker, but he should be strapped into one of Ballmer's chairs when Uncle Fester is having his daily rant against Google/Apple/Linux.
Doesn't the next id technology used for the game Rage do this on any surface?
Had this back in the UK MetOffice in 1998.
Not all that new.
Not all that novel.
Not all that cool.
There is a better example of the uses for this technology at Photosynth (http://labs.live.com/photosynth/). One could seemingly take multiple pictures of a scene using a high-res camera, and you could literally click through it as if it were 3-d.
Setting up a single canned demo is pretty easy to do - relative to applying this "technology" in a wider automated scale.
Sure it is cool to watch, but so is any special effect.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
WTF, Apple supports non-intel Macs. Read 5 lines up on the wikipedia site you reference: "Processor must be any Intel, PowerPC G5 or G4 (at least 867 MHz or faster)" I have no problem on my G5 with apple software. It's M$ who decided not to support non-intel macs.
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this many posts and no-one has mentioned pornography?
Is the API named Lovelace?
Here's a 1.5 Gigapixel mega photo of Machu Picchu
"Unfortunately" it requires Silverlight?
This is not a self-referential sig.
what do you mean no silverlight required? That is silverlight. That video is from microsoft's conference.
this seems to do the same thing as zoomify only with a smoother interface, wake me up when they have a version I can put my own photos in, preferably for free (and preferably not using silverlight)
Blazing Spiders
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So they invented mipmapping?
So... it's just like Google Earth?
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Silverlight is probably the first and only plugin that insists it isn't installed even when it is. Did it for MLB.com. MLB.com still thinks I don't have it. Did it for that website. I get this:
Before installing this version of Silverlight, please close all browser windows and uninstall all previously installed versions of Silverlight.
installed version 2.0.30523.6
requested version 2.0.30226
Does it for both I.E. and firefox. Clicking on the uninstall link gives VIDEOS instead of an actual uninstaller, not that uninstalling ever fixed my problem in the past.
So, I fired up IE and tried to look at the demo. Of course, first it demands that I install the latest version of silverlight. After the installation, I can't see the demo because I'm above the desired version.
installed version 2.0.30523
requested version 2.0.30226
What a P.O.S.!
That's pretty neat.
Of course, Google Maps can zoom smoothly from earth orbit down to my house without downloading a technology that crashes my browser 4 times in two minutes. (More than doubled my total number of browser crashes).
But this is impressive guys. You can hardly see the pixilation until you get kinda close. It's almost as good as if those had all been separate high resolution photos with a thumbnail page.
Almost--but keep up the good work guys! Soon you may be as good as basic HTML, and who knows, in a few years you could even rival AJAX.
According to a story posted on /. earlier today, the next version of OS X abandons the pre-Intel Macs, FYI.
I love it when Bill Gates posts to /.
installed version 2.0.30523.6
requested version 2.0.30226
Apparently my beta is too beta for them
I installed silverlight 2 beta from the download linked from the site and this is what it gives me:
installed version 2.0.30523.6
requested version 2.0.30226
So the problem is that I have a *newer* version of silverlight? Or are the version strings getting mangled during comparison?
I have firefox 3. Is anyone else running into this problem?
This is nothing more than Raskin's Archy. ZUI's (Zooming User Interfaces) have been around for a lot longer than that as well.
If you zoom in enough on the Goatse Guy photo, you can actually see the light shining through from the other end.
Have gnu, will travel.
You can watch a Seadragon presentation from TED at http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129
focus-plus context screens are similar http://www.patrickbaudisch.com/projects/focuspluscontextscreens/index.html
Any mapping application uses this same tech. They just swapped a photo for a map.
Silverlight sucks, it doesn't even support my cpu, not that I would want to install it anyway. I have an old Athlon from just before they released the Atlon XP with SSE.
what sig?
Silverlight 2 Beta was actually released today.
Runtime and SDK downloads and lots of other info about it here http://silverlight.net/GetStarted/
My video compression blog
I spent a good 10 minutes on there, before finding the one with the woman with the naked boobs. This technology would be a great way to hide your porn.
That must be true then
-FL
Yes, install silverlight to see this amazing coolness, but Linux is not invited to the party.
Instead, Linux has to play cat and mouse with homebrew mono and moonlight hacks.
It's amazing how cool Microsoft tries to be when they want you to turn your back on Linux.
So what?
... this technology just reuse old stuff and tell us that with Silverthing you will be able to use this wonderful technology...
... you can do that too.
I don't understand why this is so... new technology... so breath taking
Google Earth, Mandelbrot fractals,
In Java, Javascript, flash,
So, what...?
Sorry Mate
....all sounds pretty shifty really. (^-^) anyway, maybe next time.
The website didn't work for me. It just popped up a box asking me to install some program.....
thx e
These are pictures in pictures, which provides the "resolution". Even in the demo, you can see that the image of the stamp is too perfect to be on that envelope. And then the inset of the Beatles memorabilia is superimposed on the image of the HRC. And then the image of the dolls is superimposed on that image. So you are zooming in to successive images, not zooming in on a single true image and "magically" getting higher resolution like an episode of C.S.I.
I don't see the same features on any other part of the demo image.
I don't see what's so novel about it.
rm
Sci-Fi Storm
As I am on OS X and Silverlight beta 2.x doesn't exist for PPC (while Flash 10 beta exists), I couldn't check the marvellous demo.
What I know is, Zoomify exists for years starting as a cross-platform Quicktime codec and later a Flash program. In fact, it is free to implement your sites which will run anywhere with Flash installed. (I did)
http://www.zoomify.com/
MS should be busy compiling their Beta for OS X/PPC since people already started to say they are a bit early for their "lag those non windows punks releases" tactic.
2 GNUs 1 cup?
Only works on Silverlight and the license has this to say ..
'INDEMNIFICATION. You agree to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any claims, allegations, lawsuits, losses and costs (including attorney fees), that arise or result the use or deployment of your "Silverlight applications"'
davecb5620@gmail.com
I haven't had a chance to play around with Microsoft's "Deep Zoom" thing or Photosynth because I doubt either would work that well on my Powerbook G4 even if it was supported on pre-Intel Macs. But, Panoramio just released something called "look around" that does work on my computer. Google talks about it on its LatLong blog. In a way it reminds me of the Photosynth demo.
This sure looks like Deep Zoom and it works without Silverlight ..
davecb5620@gmail.com
I can't see, what I get is this msg:
"The site that you visited was built for an earlier, beta version of Silverlight - not the current one. Please contact the site owner to let them know"
davecb5620@gmail.com
LOL
I think I'll have to check again when the site is flash compatible.
Privacy is terrorism.
lol so totally worth it
Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try