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Mars Soil Appears To Be Able To Sustain Life
beckerist writes "Scientists working on the Phoenix Mars Lander mission, which has already found ice on the planet, said preliminary analysis by the lander's instruments on a sample of soil scooped up by the spacecraft's robotic arm had shown it to be much more alkaline than expected. Sam Kounaves, the lead investigator for the wet chemistry laboratory on Phoenix, told journalists: 'It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard, you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. ... It is very exciting for us.'"
It would probably lead to a very smelly planet.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
Let's hope the lander doesn't break down before next year's asparagus season.
Lets see if it works. Send a bunch of seeds that we think will grow there. Of course the lack of water might be a problem. Are there any arctic cactus?
You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. ... It is very exciting for us.
And I thought I didn't get out much.
Blank until
TFA refers to a 1 cubic meter sample (35 cubic feet). That is one sweet lander...
some spray nozzles to fire out Easy Off for their Easy Bake Oven in case some silica monster tries to hitch a ride back to Earth. Or, maybe instead they have some RoundUp dispensers. Now, if they have that and some DDT or quinine or something else to terminate any hitchers... like asparagus monsters
hehehe....
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
So nothing originally from Earth, then...
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1hvRUNc9W-3lupLU6TLQtR0gdRAD91I04D01
Some quotes...
Preliminary results showed the soil had a pH between 8 and 9, researchers said. A pH less than 7 means the solution is acidic, while a pH over 7 means it is salty. Phoenix also detected the presence of magnesium, sodium, potassium and chloride in the mixture.
"It's typical of the soil here on Earth minus the organics," Kounaves said during a teleconference from Tucson, Ariz. ...
The heating experiment, which was designed to look for organics, did not yield conclusive evidence of carbon. Scientists planned to study another soil sample taken from further below the surface.
How else is the Wong family supposed to live there.
Do asparagus need only an alkaline soil to grow up?
"With six Dr. Quinns, we can teraform Mars - and do it RIGHT this time! ...Yeeeah!"
--Dr. Quinn, "Lost in Time" episode
P.S. "Take that, subspace!" --Stormy
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Ok so how many asteroids do we need to crash into Mars to give it some greenhouse gases and an atmosphere similar to Earth's?
Asparagus is exciting for me, too!
That's some interesting stuff, especially the fact that there's nothing they found in the soil that was toxic. Now if only there was more funding towards going anywhere with this information.
Martian pot is what I'm waiting for. I'm sure it would be outta this world.
rewriting history since 2109
They've already found the water. Why didn't they send up some seeds?
I can see the headlines now in all the papers, when this quote goes mainstream;
TOP SCIENTIST CLAIM MARS SOIL SUPPORTS ASPARAGUS LIKE LIFE FORMS!
Just more evidence that Big Asparagus has co-opted our national science agenda.
I don't care if there are green martians with antennas living underground... I WANT OIL. At $135/barrel, I think it's still profitable enough to extract oil from Mars and ship it here. Is there oil, Phoenix Lander? IS THERE???
Assuming that at some point some tiny little bacteria-like thingy is actually found on Mars, what guarantee do we have that it originated there, as opposed to coming from Earth as contamination during any of our Mars missions?
And why am I unable to write in short sentences?
Asparagas is great and all... no really. But any possibility of any other veggies that can grow up there??? What makes asparagas different from other vegetables?
The spice == oil etc.
HTH
Deleted
Has everyone forgotten Mars has no ozone layer? The soil may contain the necessary minerals and other nutrients, but it's baked under UV rays and (last I heard) full of peroxides and other unfriendly chemicals as a result. Starting with plants is putting the cart before the horse; we should be thinking about extremophiles if we're serious about this. And would it be ethical?
~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
So what happens if we start firing off missions to try and seed life? Without much of an atmosphere, would we need a dome of some sort? How would temperature extremes be moderated?
Just be careful that they don't brand you when you get there.
My mom says I'm cool.
Farnsworth: Well, in those days, Mars was just a dreary uninhabitable wasteland. Much like Utah. But unlike Utah, it was eventually made livable.
So I guess this means god may have created life on Mars as well!
They should have put some seeds in the rover and let it deposit them in the soil. By the time we burn up on this planet maybe Mars will be ready for us to invade?
Maybe get 1 of each seed from the Arctic Doomsday Seed Vault?
After all, Mars and cocoa go together like IBM and genetic sequencing.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Can you imagine? You get the munchies, and all there is to eat is asparagus? Ugh.
How would it not be ethical???? There is nothing wrong with bringing life to other wise died planets. What is so important on mars that we need to protect it from life??? Rocks, Dirt??? I'm all for protecting the enivorment on earth but because we need the enivorment to survive. But if someone askded me should we move a rock to build a highway, I would say yes wouldn't you?
We need to realize that humans are part of the enivorment and have a right to change it.
... MarsHydro.com (Semi tongue in cheek teaser site created in 2000 when NASA first discovered evidence of PRIOR water on Mars in the form of those gullies.)
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
That's it, I'm joining People for the Ethical Treatment of Asparagus! How dare they send cute little innocent asparagii off to Mars! Don't you know plants have feelings too?
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
The ethical concerns have already been addressed. If the martians don't like our plans, they can file a formal complaint. The plans will be properly displayed for a sufficient duration in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.
The laws of probability forbid it!
Now I'm going to be really suspicious should the next lander actually find Asparagus ...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
The point of science is advancement. If, someday, we do end up running the Earth dry of resources, it would be nice to at least know what to expect.
My personal philosophy is not religion, it's not atheism or even agnosticism. I believe that humans are just like any other organism, and our intention is to survive. In the same light, our best trait is our intelligence. I only WISH I had retractable claws or gills... Let me put it this way, which is paraphrased from someone's quote I can't find:
"Humans are the Universes way of figuring itself out."
So the soil composition of Mars isn't wholly important for YOUR (seemingly more spent than not... probably) existence, but you're just being selfish.
Think of the children!!! (and I'm only being barely sarcastic.)
People Eating Terrible Asparagus already beat you to the acronym.That's it, I'm joining People for the Ethical Treatment of Asparagus!
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
I am intrigued. What is this "sex with a beautiful woman" of which you speak? Does she like asparagus?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Well let's really put it into perspective.
Annual sales of Microsoft Windows, $8b
Annual sales of popcorn in the US, $1b
One day in Iraq, $300M.
Sending an intelligent lander to Mars and establishing that it could support life, priceless.
Statesman
Seriously. They do.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060672/
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
That's news to me! Last I heard, the concern was that there was practically no nitrates on Mars. Your information completes the picture. We have pretty much all the necessary base elements necessary to survive on Mars. With the right engineering to solve the industrial issue, we are getting close to knowing everything we need to know to colonize!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The two endeavors are not mutually exclusive. Terraforming and manned exploration could occur in parallel.
It's called a "
," stoner.
--- Tao
The entertainments you call fitting for adults strike me as juvenile pursuits. I would never seek to make it illegal for you to pursue them, but please clearly understand, I will never accept your claim that these interests make you a more mature adult human being.
Bringing about the birth of living worlds from previously dead worlds may be an impossible dream, as you claim, but the beauty of its potential is stirring enough to make it a worthy goal for a mature intelligent species.
If we fail to achieve this goal on Mars, we can and should find other planets where it can succeed. If we also fail to do that, it will be because we allowed ourselves to be distracted by short term pleasures such as those you describe, or because we followed your siren call to pour all our resources into repeatedly failing "solutions" for perennial problems such as poverty or disease. By all means, let us continue trying to solve humanity's problems on this planet. But don't use that as an excuse to shut down all space exploration efforts.
I care about humanity more deeply than you seem to be able to imagine. I care enough to want a future for humanity that extends beyond the lifespan of any single planet, beyond the lifespan of any single star system, and if possible, beyond the lifespan of any single galaxy. How is this any less mature than the desire of parents to hope their children and grandchildren might continue to prosper for many future generations?
If we fail to secure such a future for our descendants, the end result might very well be a sterile, dead universe, where nobody else will ever again have the chance to enjoy sex, skydiving, skiing or anything else adults do for excitement.
Bringing Mars to life may be so difficult it approaches the impossible. But it may be the best place to take the first step toward opening up the universe for humankind, and that makes it worth the effort.
To Mars, Again!
WASHINGTON -- NASA has submitted funding proposals for a new Mars mission, scheduled to launch in 2012. The mission will entail a new Mars lander called the Advanced Series Polymorphic Asparagus Research Automated Growing Unit Seedfarm, or ASPARAGUS, and is expected to grow several varieties of asparagus in martian soil.
"[We] might be able to grow asparagus in it really well... It is very exciting for us" says Sam Kounaves, mission planner for the new endevour.
The lander will be expected to gather soil and deposit it into a 'grow-op' like container, where asparagus seeds will be added to the mix. "We just don't know what will happen after that, it will be very exciting to watch the developments unfold over subsequent weeks." he adds.
Included in the lander will be a CD filled with asparagus recipies for future astronauts of the first manned Mars mission, planned for 2050. "The CD will contain dozens of recipies all featuring asparagus as the main ingredient. Things like boiled asparagus, steamed asparagus, steam boiled asparagus, fried asparagus, and even just plain asparagus!" says Angela Schmidt, the mission's asparagus habilitation expert.
The $480 million project is expected to be greenlit later this year.
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
I think the news here is that you would not have to bring native soil to Mars if you wanted to farm. Yea, you would have to farm under a dome but at least you don't have to transport a few tons of topsoil!
All we need now is carbon dioxide, an ozone layer, liquid water, warmer temps, higher atmospheric pressure, and a new atmosphere and we're all set!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
What every Mars Lander story needs is a justification for this...uh..lunacy.
...
...
And yet somehow what every Mars Lander story ends up with is some fucking pathetic, overly long comment about how we're wasting our time and how the money should be spent elsewhere from some self-important, completely out of touch windbag who believes that the things that we should be pursuing in life are utterly pointless five minute flash-in-the-pan adrenaline events done purely for brief personal entertainment.
Anyway, back to more interesting discussions elsewhere on the page
is NOT that we can go up there and plant asparagus and have dinner in 3-6 months. What this discovery MEANS is that we don't have to haul ten thousand pounds of topsoil to Mars when we put a lab there.
I knew that ice didn't disappear because of so called sublimation .
Mars is probably crawling with all kinds of tiny critters.
Loose lips lose spit.
...is that you have Asparagus that is bleeched and covered in cancer growths. Besides, if we ship up LA, there won't be a lack of ozone for long.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
However, assuming that there was strong evidence of an acid environment at some point in Mars' history, then the presence of alkaline soil now means the acid has been neutralized, which would indeed create a salty environment, as acid + alkaline = salt + water.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...until someone points out to those same papers that asparagus contains hydrocarbons, the same stuff oil is made from.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Aag! Planetism! Inhabitants of the Moon take offense!
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Theism: God exists.
Atheism: God doesn't exist.
Agnosticism: I don't know if God exists.
Take your pick, but I'm pretty sure you're in there somewhere.
(Yes, if we're being technical, I realize agnostics believe it's impossible to know if God exists. But that would make them intolerant sons of bitches, and intolerance is the unpardonable sin, right?)
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
NASA Mars Phoenix Lander
Bad choice of words!
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
No matter what they'd find on Mars, you'd think it was evidence against design. True?
It is Humanity's duty, our perogative, and vastly profitable to bring Life to dead worlds. We can not remain in the cradle forever.
1- Buy rocket
2- deliver Life to Mars
3- Harvest potent Mars-weed and custom bio-cuticals
4- deliver to Earth and the Great Hordes of Slashdot
5 Profit!!!
no question marks.
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
4) "He" is irrelevant, regardless of my beliefs.
I'm still not sure why they haven't thought of this before... But extremophiles are part of the archaea domain and are thought to be some of the first types of life. Why in the world are they not looking in the volcanic areas of Mars? It doesn't have tectonic plates but it sure has volcanoes (one of, if not the, largest volcanoes in the solar system). Granted nothing can live (that we know of) in molten rock, but nearby maybe under the Martian soil there may be liquid water. It may have enough pressure from the soil above it and heat from the molten rock to reach the triple point. If that is the case I would propose the best starting point for finding thermophilic lifeforms. Not out on the surface where liquid water is essentially impossible.
Let me spare you replying. I'll make your arguments for you:
If they found on Mars:
1. Biological life on Mars, or soil that supports life -Golly, that's not design, because it must be common!
2. No life, no soil with water vapor with nutrients -That's not design, because, well, we don't see anything that looks designed! It's dead!
3. A thriving, megalopolis of alien cities with shimmering spires. -That's not design, because we've already concluded that all of the urban design on earth is ultimately the result of the thoughts of beings created by random evolutionary processes, so it must be true on Mars too.
And by the way- there isn't any design on Earth either. We're not even really having this conversation. It's structure is therefore meaningless.
Therefore, there's no design to your arguments. Typing random keys on the keyboard is just as good an argument as the one you're about to make in reply.
You forming a reply in your head to this post is meaningless, because it has no design. It is meaningless to form it in an email and send it.
I'd actually disagree. ID claims the Earth was designed for life; it makes no particular claims about the rest of the solar system. If anything, ID's claim that the Earth is "special" could be interpreted to mean that the other planets can't support life (although even if the Earth is "special" it doesn't necessarily mean that).
However, if we discover that despite having the ability to support life Mars was completely sterile, that would support ID, IMHO. At least, it would shed a doubtful light on the probability of evolution: If evolution actually works the way it's supposed to, then a planet that "can" support life should eventually develop life if given enough time. Given the amount and variety of life found on Earth, Mars ought to have had enough time for a few microbes to have evolved at least.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
"Don't know / Don't care" is essentially agnosticism... "We don't know if God exists, therefore God is irrelevant: (live as if God doesn't exist)".
Besides that, you're being intolerant of peoples who believe "God" is a "she". Be ashamed, be very ashamed...
(Ok, I'm kidding... but still, I intentionally used "God" instead of "He" because I wanted to include the people who believe God is a woman. The whole point of my list, after all, was that it was supposed to be all-inclusive...)
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
If you've been following the discoveries about Mars over the last dozen years or so, you've probably noticed that each new revelation followed a trend of making the existence of past or present life on the planet more possible. This latest discovery certainly maintains the pattern. I think it's at the point where if evidence of life is dicovered, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Given how tenacious life is, and given how hospitable we now know Mars to be, I think it is likely that some form of life has evolved a way to survive on the present-day planet. Keep in mind that Mars is not always so cold. Tempatures can get well above freezing during the summer in some places. Condidtions just aren't as harsh as some of the places we find life on earth - like inside nuclear reactor cores.
So we spend hundreds of millions of dollars specifically to send a spacecraft across the void to look for signs of life and water. Did anybody actually think to put a few seeds onboard to just toss out and see if they might grow? I mean, we can do molecular spectroscopy from 10 million miles away an nobody thought to thow some seeds in there?
Frank W. Miller
Can someone comment upon how water seems to go from ice, sublimating directly to a gas on Mars, and the implications for potential life? Due to the low atmospheric pressure on Mars, H2O goes from ice to gas directly, just as carbon dioxide goes from solid (dry ice) to gas by direct sublimation on Earth, without any liquid phase...
While some hardy variations of life could possibly life within ice, or somehow benefit from water vapour, it seems that most life on earth thrived and differentiated in the liquid phase of water, which seems to be (currently, at least) non-existent on mars. (And most stories I have read about extremophiles surviving within ice cores and so on, seem to indicate they're kind of in limbo while frozen, not reproducing and thriving...)
Anyone?
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I think you owe Doug Adams (rip) for that!
cheers, ben
Never miss a good chance to shut up -- Will Rogers
Except that believers in so-called "intelligent design" don't need reasons to believe it. The one reason they have is Genesis, Chapter 1.
If a god had designed the Universe and wanted you to know about it, you would know by now -- the evidence would be irrefutable. I submit that either (a) no god designed the Universe, or (b) a god designed the Universe and doesn't think humanity has need-to-know access to the fact. I won't rule out (b), but I think that if a god did design the Universe, it was akin to shaking a snow globe and letting the little snowflakes move of their own accord thereafter.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
ah, bollocks.
a) Proving negatives is hard.
b) Ambiguity on whether there is life on Mars or not justifies many, many more $500 million trips to the red planet.
c) "Its a barren rock, but it could be a barren rock with a few kilograms of lichen on it if you give us a few years" does not justify a series of $500 million missions.
(I'm perpetually amused that folks whine how we can't replace an old-growth forest or rainforest but terraforming a planet, hey, no problem there. All you need to do is sprinkle a little spores and fairy dust and boom you have Earth II, except without all the people mucking it up...)
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
For the record, Rob Ferl was quoted in an old CNN article recently cited in a previous Slashdot comment
"I have no doubt what we can get plants to survive on Mars. When we do, we will have shown that Earth-evolved life is capable of thriving in distant worlds, and we will have set the stage for human colonization," Ferl said.
Looks like he was right on point, except it might just be TOO easy to grow plants there. This data should help decide how to further modify plants for the 'next' mission opportunity!
who believes that the things that we should be pursuing in life are utterly pointless five minute flash-in-the-pan adrenaline events done purely for brief personal entertainment. ...but don't waste billions of dollars of tax-payer funds.
Maybe Asparagus is Pod People gone wrong. Melkurised in fact.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Yes yes, whatever. Quit talking to me, I'm embarassed to be in anyway connected to you and I got off your lawn ages ago.
"...supposed to be all-inclusive..."
As a Buddhist, I respectably reject your 'god' related parameters dependent on theism. That's totally a non sequitur from my perspective.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
"My message is simple."
No, your message is simpleminded. Go away troll. Your version of what the world should be is too dystopic and defeatist to be even mildly interesting.
Go back to your dark, unimaginative basement and go back to Digg or 4chan-you will fit in better there.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Nor do they produce anything of any use. "Oooh I'm so wise and adult! Let's all of you concentrate on eating less, travelling less, learning less and having less children while I go smoke some pot with my uber-intelligent buddies!"
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
my tomatos would grow there, cause they sure don't like to grow in my garden
Evolution deals with the aspeciation of life. Life coming into being refers to abiogenesis. They are two different hypothesis.
I fail to see how that applies to my comment.
Your forgetting that the main variable in life developing has little to do with how much time is taken, but the correct conditions and pressures.
Duh. Did you even read my comment? My point was that if Mars can support life it probably should have some (according to the evolutionary view of probability, where there is a small but nonzero probability extrapolated over millions/billions of years). Obviously if it "can't" (probability of zero) then it won't.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
"How could human beings possibly handle eating asparagus grown thousands of miles away from earth?... the utensils would need to be engineered to withstand it too."
Mars is nearly tectonically dead, haven frozen solid some time ago. Earth's interior is still convecting and differentiating. Earth may have several billion years of outgassing left in it until it solidifies too. Most of the new gas ("juvenile" in geologic terminology) comes through the 60,000 km of undersea volcanic rifts. Its a direct opening to the mantle. (Most the volcanoes we see on land are with subduction zones. Those aren't juvenile, but recycle elements in the descending crust - the most import CO2 in limestone.)
We obviously have water. CO2 can be reprocessed into O2.
And when you take out the O2, you end up with C, which certainly isn't unwanted waste matter. There is probably a big future for graphene, diamondoid, and carbon nanotubes on Mars. Since locally produced oxygen will be a necessity, there will be a lot of carbon available from the process.
At the current rate of progress, pretty soon there won't be anything we can't make with carbon and carbon composites, from nanocircuits to human habitats. That could be important, not just on Mars but also here on Earth.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
My understanding is that the principal cause of atmosphere-loss on Mars is not its lower gravity (it was able to retain its atmosphere early in its life) but its lack of a good magnetic field.
Mar's gravity has remained constant over the eons, but it has lost most of its magnetic field... which stems from its smaller size (Mars lost its internal heat and now its iron core is not liquid, thus no more magnetic field). Earth being bigger was able to retain its internal heat and still has a liquid iron core = still got a nice magnetic field.
It is thought that having a decent magnetic field blocks solar wind, which strips away atmospheric molecules.
Not to diss goats, but I can actually say that my mother's property (only 1.5 acres) had sheep on it specifically so we didn't need to mow all of it. Worked quite well overall, provided you can deal with sheep - which are *remarkably* stupid, I mean stupid with some real force and intention behind it.
That said, let me be the first to welcome our new Goatish Overlords
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
When they confirm life on Mars (bacteria most likely), it'll immediately be placed on the endangered species list since it'll be so rare in our solar system.
Then the Martian environment will be classified as a "pristine wilderness" that cannot be farmed, developed, colonized or terra-formed in any way due to the "danger" such activity would pose to the peaceful and beautiful microbes of the Martian planet.
Oh well, not the first time science was hi-jacked and ground to a halt by the ignorant "belief" of someone with more political motivation than knowledge - but it could very well be the last.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me"
Does it also contain the electrolytes that plants crave?
The Phoenix Lander earlier this week conducted its first wet chemical analysis through its Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer or MECA, which mixes the soil sample with water and bakes the mud to 1,832 degrees Fahrenheit to test for chemical composition. The results show the martian soil had a pH between 8 and 9, meaning it is alkaline -- the kind of soil you could grow vegetables in if you brought it back to Earth, quickly tossed in some cow manure, and watered. MECA detected the presence of magnesium, sodium, potassium and chloride but no carbon, the crucial ingredient necessary for life on Earth (alright, silicon might also work). Interestingly, JPL tells us that the mineral content of the soil is not much different from the upper dry valleys in Antarctica. What Phoenixâ(TM) wet chemical analysis shows is that there is no life in the soil sample tested by MECA. The Phoenix Lander's follow-the-water strategy for searching for organic compounds is, however, exactly the right strategy for NASA to pursue. Here's a hint, if NASA could land the Phoenix Lander on Enceladus or Titan or anywhere else in this sun system, the test results would likewise show that there is no life in this sun system other than on Earth. It takes more than liquid water for life to emerge. But I believe that our Milky Way galaxy is teeming with life. As Mulder used to say, "the truth is out there."
470 million works out to about $1 per mile. Knowledge is priceless. Exploration, besides that of Uranus, is exciting. Go crap on some Republican bailouts for s&L (NOT people in foreclosure) or Bear Stearns.
Bwahahaha - good one. I'd give you ten pts for insight if I could.